IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2012-05-18

itsnotabigtruckif your run it though invoker -te, it'll inherit the credentials, and if you run it directly, it won't00:00
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itsnotabigtruck*if you run    which causes a lot of mystery bugs for devs that aren't paying attention to what's actually going on00:00
itsnotabigtruckbut that shouldn't happen with a python script with a shebang line00:01
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HKisdI had enabled couple extra repositories from meecatalog. maybe it messed up something00:07
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: ^02:22
ZogG_laptopyou still have no N902:23
MohammadAGnope, but I have an N950 so I don't consider myself eligible02:25
itsnotabigtrucknot sure i like > 25 devices for existing community apps being published at the Nokia Store.02:30
itsnotabigtruckand i'm not sure what the qt 5 item means in practice02:30
itsnotabigtruckimo publishing via the nokia store is inherently contradictory to "community" anything02:31
MohammadAGthinking of selling the lumia and getting an N902:31
MohammadAGheh, true that02:31
MohammadAGbut hey, it made me implement a very intelligent and advanced update system02:31
Elleomy lumia only gets used for one thing and that's making videos of my n95002:31
Elleosince its the only thing I have that focuses on the screen properly02:31
MohammadAGit focuses macro-ly well02:32
MohammadAGand its UI is fast02:32
ElleoI had intended to port a few things to it, but then I found that the platform was too restrictive to let me do any of the things I wanted; so it just sits around looking pretty02:32
itsnotabigtruckyeah, wp7's .net environment is intensely locked down02:33's actually pretty cool in many ways, but not the way it was implemented on wp702:33
MohammadAGthis is awesome02:33
itsnotabigtruckwhere it's basically there entirely to restrict your access to the phone02:33
Elleoyeah, I couldn't even find a way to get it to let me check the battery level accurately to make a nice battery graphing app02:34
itsnotabigtruckit seems MS won against the hackers with wp7...wp7 hacking is basically dead on arrival these days02:34
Elleolet alone let me add ogg vorbis support in any meaningful way02:34
itsnotabigtruckthere's a few things you can do but they aren't easy, or compatible with all WP7 models (including the lumia)02:35
itsnotabigtruckand windows ce's native environment is a horrible system to program for02:35
itsnotabigtruckit's really no fun at all02:35
itsnotabigtruckthat's why the N9 having a full linux environment is so important02:35
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itsnotabigtruckalso MohammadAG: version 0.3 has 0.2 in the name? :p02:37
itsnotabigtruckyou should make sure you secure it somehow so that a MITM can't pwn your phone with a bad deb02:37
MohammadAGitsnotabigtruck, I edited it to test the notification system :p02:37
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itsnotabigtruckhttp + no signature = bad02:37
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itsnotabigtruckMohammadAG ^02:41
MohammadAGitsnotabigtruck, it's basic for now02:41
MohammadAGHarmattan handles the downloads, if it was me I'd md5 it02:42
itsnotabigtruckMohammadAG: don't use MD5 either :p02:42
itsnotabigtruck3 ways i can think of to do it would be to02:43
itsnotabigtrucka) deliver the update info file over HTTPS, where your server's self-signed certificate is the only trusted certificate02:44
itsnotabigtruckthe info file has a SHA256 hash of the deb02:44
itsnotabigtruckb) deliver the update info file over HTTP, with a GPG signature applied, where your server's GPG key is the only trusted key02:44
itsnotabigtruckthe info file also has a SHA256 hash of the data02:44
tgalalI am benefitting from this conversation :)02:44
itsnotabigtruckor c) deliver the update info file over HTTP and skip the hash, but embed a signature of some sort into the deb and validate that02:45
MohammadAGitsnotabigtruck, mind making me a patch? :P02:45
itsnotabigtruckor d) don't do that altogether because it really isn't a very good idea02:45
itsnotabigtruckumm no02:45
itsnotabigtruckyour app your problem >_>02:45
itsnotabigtruckbtw apt does (b)02:46
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itsnotabigtruckaegis does (c)02:46
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: and well, you shouldn't...the entire point of a package manager is NOT having this stuff in every single app02:48
MohammadAGa package manager needs a sane repo02:49
MohammadAGwhich we still don't have02:49
MohammadAGso I've taken the deb path, which sucks, but heyu02:50
itsnotabigtruckthen make sure to either dump it or secure it because unsecured updates are a pretty bad idea02:51
itsnotabigtrucki mean, is it a very realistic threat vehicle...probably not, but it is an obvious threat vehicle02:51
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DocScrutinizerthe obvious threat vector is your wife hiring a private eye who knows an IT specialist who provides the needed "malware" on a website, or on a USB stick or whateve, and your wife installing it on your phone while you're under the shower03:40
DocScrutinizerbet that with SHA25603:40
DocScrutinizerthe whole idea of system based security is BS. The only proper security concept is a proper root password and an educated user03:41
DocScrutinizeroops, I was wrong. I forgot about the most common threat vector: noob users installing apps like wazap, because they are "free"03:43
DocScrutinizerthe only proper security concept helps in that case just as well03:44
GeneralAntillesBurn the heathens.03:44
DocScrutinizerjust harder to implement - users who deliberately use wazap etc are hard to educate03:45
SpeedEvilI secured my lumia 800 by placing it in a 2 foot block of concrete and dropping it into the marianas trench.03:45
DocScrutinizerbest thing you can do with that device ;-D03:46
GeneralAntillesIt's great for watching Netflix in bed.03:46
SpeedEvilNo netflix in the UK03:48
GeneralAntillesTo the trench it goes!03:48
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khertanMohammadAG: i ve finally found the perfect example of speed with an app made in Python and a similar one made in C++. Look at native slow twitter client on n9 , and Khweeteur on n900, Khweeteur is faster, not because python is faster than c++, but because Khweeteur have a better logic of caching things. Language speed is nothing ! (And use less memory also)07:47
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itsnotabigtruckkhertan: it would be even faster if you used C++, however07:54
itsnotabigtruckslow c++ < fast python < fast c++07:54
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khertanitsnotabigtruck: probably not, as most time is used waiting user action, or in c++ libs of python :)07:56
khertanjust the startup time will be faster07:57
khertanand in case of doing it in c++ i ll probably not get the time to implement all this cache optimizations07:57
khertani use less time to code, so more time for the logic :)07:58
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itsnotabigtruckkhertan: it's not about the percentage of time that the app is running that it's busy doing stuff08:01
itsnotabigtruckit's about *response time*08:01
itsnotabigtruckand performance is essential08:01
itsnotabigtruck50 ms vs 400 ms after the user pushes a button is the difference between instant and sluggish08:02
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antman8969anyone else have trouble setting properties on the rootContext() lately? Cannot seem to get it to  work on harmattan with or without booster08:47
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jonniantman8969: that depends if your using QApplication or QScoperPointer, there is a known bug that wizard makes buggy skeleton if you use QScopedPointer and try to use rootContext().09:12
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jonni(which should be fixed on next qt creator release)09:13
jonniantman8969: there is workaround documented in here
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antman8969jonni I've seen that, it was actually my own fault09:26
antman8969I was using Q_DECL_EXPORT in place of Q_INVOKABLE09:26
antman8969in addition, you apparently have to set context properties BEFORE setting a source file09:27
antman8969two stupid mistakes that cost me hours...09:27
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susundbergHello, seems like my restore changed my /home/user permissions to 777 -> ssh refuces to work with rsa-key. Could somebody point out what the permissions should be?09:35
susundberg700 ?09:36
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susundberg(device is N9, pr1.2)09:36
Venemo_N950heh, morning09:36
susundberggood morning09:36
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decibyte_i broke my n9 display. is it possible to enable vnc via some shell command? i got ssh access.10:55
jonniyes it is, search forums.11:01
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decibyte_jonni: thanks11:10
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Stecchinodjszapi: did you happen to package libqca2-plugin-ossl v2.0.0 for Harmattan?11:34
Stecchinoversion from nokia is 0.1~20070904-5+0m6 and qca 2.0.2-3 has problems loading it hence some crypto functions are failing11:35
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djszapiStecchino: I am sorry, but I do not have time.11:39
djszapiStecchino: I cannot recall all the packages I made, was above 100'ish :)11:39
djszapiI can take a look this weekend, if you that is fine.11:40
Stecchinodjszapi: just give me a link to your OBS page and I'll search11:40
StecchinoSo far no lunk on
StecchinoI might package it myself11:40
StecchinoI just wonder why the official repo has such an ancient version11:41
djszapiStecchino: cause updating unnecessarily is a maintenance overhead11:47
Stecchinodjszapi: in this case it seems the old version is not working though. And libqca2-plugin-ossl was released a month after that package version. Might there be a license issue?11:48
djszapiStecchino: sorry, but really deadline'ish here for Monday.11:49
djszapiI can take a look at this during the weekend.11:49
Stecchinodjszapi: I'll keep you updated11:51
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gabriel9|workanyone use mail for exchange with gmail?12:07
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Stecchinogabriel9|work: only for contacts12:27
gabriel9|workso if i add it, do i need gmail also for chat?12:28
Stecchinono, that is with the google accounts plugin12:29
Stecchinosad that not all G services are covered by google accounts plugin12:29
Stecchinotechnically it's possible12:30
StecchinoHoe comfortable are people discussing Harmatan development (platform and official apps, i.e. Nokia internal) these days. Many of us are ex-nokia externals right? It's been over a year and since PR1.2 all has been shut down AFAIK.12:31
StecchinoGuess the NDA still holds, but think it would be nice if we can keep Harmattan going in the community12:32
Stecchinowell, topic is clear12:33
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gabriel9|workwe should keep HArmattan in Comunity12:38
gabriel9|workit's nice12:39
StecchinoWe could it we massively broke NDA :)12:39
gabriel9|workand i got C++ book :D12:39
StecchinoDoes nokia still carE?12:39
gabriel9|workwho needs Nokia12:39
gabriel9|workwe have devices12:39
gabriel9|workand source :)12:39
gabriel9|workall i need is some knowladge12:39
gabriel9|workfrom C++12:39
Stecchinoyeah, source under NDA12:39
gabriel9|workNDA is?12:39
StecchinoNon disclosure agreement12:40
StecchinoIf you don't know you never signed it12:40
Stecchinoand #N9 might be better for your general questions to be frank12:40
gabriel9|worki heard about it but don't know what is it12:40
SpeedEvilIt would be awesome if there was a massive source release.12:40
SpeedEvilUnfortunately, leaks are less clear.12:41
StecchinoWon't happen unfortunately. There is no business case for opening Harmattan12:41
Stecchinoat least not for Nokia :) I would have.12:41
gabriel9|workso they don't want it12:41
SpeedEvilIf Nokia was doing ongoing development, the harm to community relations could be mentioned.12:42
gabriel9|workand they dont wwant to give it :D12:42
SpeedEvilSo absenting the legal question - is it likely to harm potential Meltmi openness.12:42
jonniand there are some patent and ipr reasons too why some sources cannot be released.12:42
Stecchinoas far as I know all the Nokia devs that stayed are now working on M12:43
gabriel9|workAnd Meltemi is new OS :/12:44
gabriel9|worki dont get it12:44
gabriel9|workthey have one OS and they create another12:45
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SpeedEvilYou missed 'throwing away any minimal inertia in the marketplace they had'12:45
gabriel9|workyea that also12:46
SpeedEvilMeltmi is going to face a hell of an uphill struggle.12:46
gabriel9|workand it is lov end12:46
SpeedEvilIt would have been interesting to see the results if Nokia had released N901 a year on from n900 with a modest hardware refresh, and continued SW devel.12:46
gabriel9|work40% of people in US have smartphone12:46
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gabriel9|workall wan't bigger faster better phones now12:47
gabriel9|worki don't know anyone who will buy some cheap slow phone :/12:47
gabriel9|workwell nice talking with you12:48
gabriel9|worknow back to work :) there is some new ideas i want to try12:48
gabriel9|worksee ya12:48
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ArkanoiD_am i right that there is just no way to associate twitter username with address book contact manually and if the obscure heuristic failed, that's it?13:01
gabriel9|workas i know there is no way to merge them13:03
gabriel9|workmaybe in 1.3 :)13:04
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JaffaArkanoiD_: I haven't checked through the API, but at least when exposed as a VCard, it doesn't seem to be present.14:14
JaffaAlso, VCards have got pictures encoded as multi-100KB PNGs. This might explain Contacts' slowness (when they're only ever shown as 80x80ish)14:15
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MohammadAGis libvideo-widget-meegotouch open?14:40
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ZogG_laptopi got message from moderator on TMO on personal attack on thread15:58
ZogG_laptopthe funny thing it is deleted15:58
ZogG_laptopso probably it was one of the stupid "make me app" posts15:58
thpif anybody wants to be added as member to the project, please ping me - would be nice to have some harmattan apps in a central place :)16:04
ZogG_laptopthp: hmm, what about apps4meego?16:06
thpapps.formeego doesn't have scm afaik, and ideally the apps on that github organization should be published on apps.formeego.org16:07
thpmaybe even automatically, apparently obs can build out of a git repository16:07
Elleoit'd be nice if appsformeego had a way to associate a git/bzr/svn/hg/whatever repository with an app16:07
ZogG_laptopthp: i would like to be added, but not that much dev16:07
Elleoso you could see a "Get source" link for each app16:07
ZogG_laptopthp: funkycode16:08
thpZogG_laptop: you should have access now16:09
ZogG_laptopthp: thanks16:09
thpElleo: yep, one point of that harmattan repository would be that some apps' git repos would be published there for easier discoverability16:09
Elleothp: yeah, but integration in apps for meego would make discoverability easier for apps that aren't hosted on github16:10
thpthat's true16:10
Elleomost of my stuff tends to end up on either launchpad or gitorious nowdays, depending on if its a bzr or a git project16:10
Elleopushing the gitorious stuff to a github repo wouldn't be a massive extra chore, but going from bzr <-> github would be16:11
ZogG_laptopthp: it's public right?16:13
Sivathp: could you add me as well..16:13
ZogG_laptopi think i need to push my app there, but on other side, there are tokens there oauth16:13
thpZogG_laptop: you could push via ssh+key16:14
thpSiva: sure, just tell me your github username16:14
Sivathp: that would be sivabalan16:14
thpSiva: done16:15
Sivathp: ty!16:16
MohammadAGthp, me me me! :P16:18
MohammadAGoh wait, *asks self* do I have a github account...?16:18
MohammadAGmeh, it costs $0/month16:19
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: you are gitorious guy?16:19
MohammadAGnow if it was free..16:19
MohammadAGthp, MohammadAG16:20
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, yes, problem?16:20
thpMohammadAG: github is free for public repos16:20
MohammadAGthp, no, it clearly says $0/month, not free16:20
* MohammadAG buys thp a sarcasm detector16:21
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thpjust hold up that sarcasm sign16:22
* RST38h yawns16:25
RST38hEHLO thp, MohammadAG16:25
MohammadAGehlo RST38h16:25
thpahoy RST38h :)16:25
* merlin1991 holds up a sarcasm sign for no apparent reason16:25
MohammadAGthp, I signed up on github, same nick16:26
thpMohammadAG: added16:32
MohammadAGthp, thanks :)16:32
merlin1991MohammadAG: I assume you'll put sociality n there?16:33
ZogG_laptopmerlin1991: you don't say so16:34
ZogG_laptopthp: i see you ported classic print16:35
thpZogG_laptop: just a quick initial port, nothing fancy16:35
ZogG_laptopthp: hope to see it on apps4meego =)16:36
ZogG_laptopfor tests16:36
thpsure! but it needs a bit more work (better icon and better load times, see the TODO file in the repo)16:37
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ZogG_laptopthp: what does publicize does on organizations on github, i see the button near my nick16:47
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thpZogG_laptop: if you publicize, it will show your username on when nobody is logged in16:50
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ZogG_laptop2םלת אישמלד16:52
ZogG_laptopok, thanks16:52
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djszapihow is the variant property type in qml supposed to work for a list goal, like storing integers ?17:40
djszapihow can I bundle a list up into that ?17:40
AppiahIf a device wont make outgoing calls,  you reboot it , what logs should you be digging into?17:42
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TMavicatgalal ping18:06
tgalalTMavica: yow18:06
TMavicahave you check out CepiPerez post18:08
TMavicahe fully changed your wazapp UI and post a Zip file18:08
TMavicabut he cant change the conversation18:08
TMavicain TMO18:08
TMavicasame contact UI as filebox18:09
tgalallet's see :D18:09
TMavicayou check check18:09
TMavicaI am using right now18:09
TMavicaso nice18:09
TMavicaLOL, he SAID he want change to bubble conversation too lor18:10
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tgalalTMavica: thanks for the tip!18:14
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TMavicaany news I will tell you here18:16
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djszapibeford: do you have a qt project account ?18:21
befordI *think* so18:26
befordit uses SSO right? I registered on the wiki18:26
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djszapisso ?18:29
befordsingle sign on18:29
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befordlike the same account for all services under qt-project18:29
djszapinothing else.18:29
djszapithere is a CLA signing, yes.18:29
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djszapiDoes the Grid QML element support row and column spanning ?18:54
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b0unc3to create an entry in the settings panel I've to create the dir /usr/share/duicontrolpanel/desktops/ ?19:54
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rzrkhertan, u need that one
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khertanrzr: my n950 was dropped on floor 6 months ago and with only a minor scratch in the corner :)22:45
khertanbut seems that it s the end today22:46
rzrkhertan, yes that's why i read online22:46
khertankeep losing network22:46
rzri would have resit if you were running wp722:46
rzrit ...22:46
khertani selling the lumia 80022:46
khertantwo days after using it22:47
khertanhate that os22:47
khertanand need to buy new wheel for my car :)22:47
khertanmore usefull than this shitty wp7 :)22:47
khertanmy n950 seems have a cellular modem dying ... 22 reboot today to keep cellular network alive :(22:48
khertanwill be time to look forward ... for an other plateform22:48
khertanor use that good old n900 maemo which are still doing notification on my desk22:48
* khertan will not bought a phone whitout a physical keyboard22:49
thpkhertan: actually the n9 virtual keyboard with the tactile feedback is quite good22:49
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thpkhertan: combined with some intelligence built into khteditor, you are probably at least as productive as with a hwkb ;)22:50
Khertan_n950at least wifi still working22:50
Khertan_n950will be difficult22:51
Khertan_n950and too much pain to do something with a qml textarea :(22:52
thpkhertan: just implement your own textarea widget22:52
Khertan_n950thp, did you know any device which have python on it and really support it ?22:52
thpKhertan_n950: well, to be honest, harmattan is the one that has first-class python support22:53
thpKhertan_n950: if you are looking for other things, android does have SL4A and i've experimented a bit with porting pyside to it22:53
Khertan_n950thp, i ve tryed to do own by using a qgraphicproxy widget but since pr1.1 segfault without apparent reason22:53
thpKhertan_n950: have you tried a different graphicssystem (-graphicssystem switch if you pass the command line args to QApplication)?22:54
Khertan_n950a bit tired doing workarround for qml22:54
thpKhertan_n950: i'm sure it can be debugged somehow ;)22:54
Khertan_n950thp, probably but don t found how22:54
thpKhertan_n950: btw. do you plan on going to europython?22:54
Khertan_n950where it s this year ?22:55
Khertan_n950did you go ?22:56
djszapiwhy would you port pyside ?22:57
Khertan_n950did you lose sometime cellular network on your n950 without being able to recover it ?22:57
Khertan_n950except with a reboot ?22:58
dm8tbryes, seems to depend on network or SIM though22:59
dm8tbrhappens from time to time on sonera, happens next to never on saunalahti22:59
Khertan_n950it s happen 2 or 3 time a week ... but today i need to reboot 27 times23:00
Khertan_n950could be a sim problem ?23:00
Khertan_n950but didn t have such problem on n90023:01
thpKhertan_n950: i'm going, yes23:01
thpdjszapi: just for fun ;)23:01
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Khertan_n950thp: i ll maybe probably write a source hilighting editor with pygame this way will be fully portable :)23:02
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thpKhertan_n950: that'd be cool, yes :)23:07
thpor split the backend and the frontend - so that you could have the highlighting/editing backend + a pygame frontend and e.g. a qgraphicsview frontend23:08
Khertan_n950yes with pygame i ll surely split back and frontend23:09
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