IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2012-05-09

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* DocScrutinizer is happy to finally see Nokia's aegis concept justified00:26
macmaNhow is it justified again?00:27
macmaNdid i miss something?00:27
DocScrutinizerread backscroll00:27
macmaNhow far back? how many hours?00:27
DocScrutinizerlast few dozen to 100 lines00:28
DocScrutinizerprolly starting at [2012-05-08 20:13:47] <Sazpaimon_> so what's a good starting value for opptimizer00:28
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: yup00:28
DocScrutinizerIt pretty much provides evidence why you can't do FOSS on embedded00:30
DocScrutinizerif you're a hw manufacturer00:30
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itsnotabigtruckso all that talk about how aegis is shit and now you're backpedaling?00:33
* DocScrutinizer waits for some 1337 geek coming up with an app calibarting indicator LED max current by probing via ALS. If LED gets darker despite incresing current (from 100 to 110mA) it's considered optimum OPP + 1 step00:33
itsnotabigtruckbesides, if i buy an asus board and an intel chip, and crank it up to 9 GHz and 1337 V00:34
* Arkenoi lols00:34
itsnotabigtrucki'm not going to be blaming intel and asus if it bursts into flames00:34
macmaNi like 1337 V00:34
macmaNit just feels right00:34
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, sarcasm->00:34
GeneralAntilles<- you00:34
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DocScrutinizerno, you're not blaming anybody - you simply send it in for repair on waranty00:34
Arkenoibtw, my n900 is rock stable being overclocked to 1150MHz for two years00:35
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: how many hours did the CPU run @ OC during those 2 years?00:35
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itsnotabigtruckmacmaN: lol, and GeneralAntilles: doesn't sound like it00:36
Arkenoinot much i guess but not that little given i browsed heavy web with flash00:36
DocScrutinizerif it's been >5000h then you're a) a power user, and b) a lucky guy00:36
DocScrutinizersince I guess @1150 the OMAP3430 will fail on 20+% of units after just 1000h00:38
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: it's useless to add sarcasm tag for itsnotabigtruck, he refuses to get my non-sarcasm statements any right, so what he'd do with ยก ?00:40
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, dunno. It's clearly time for another drink, though.00:41
* GeneralAntilles passes out glasses.00:41
DocScrutinizercheers! on Nokia & Aegis, which, if not for anything else, for sure will try to enforce policies on kernel due to OCing00:42
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* DocScrutinizer heads out to get himself a real drink, before the clock hits the new day00:45
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* Arkenoi is not going to OC n950, not very useful00:47
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DocScrutinizerif they had a brain at Nokia, they'd have implemented a simple seal made of solder that you could cut to enable R&D mode00:58
DocScrutinizerclear cut (pun intended), no more aegis restrictions, no more waranty00:58
DocScrutinizerand all the noobs would think twice before frying their CPU by OCing00:59
DocScrutinizerbecause it would involve a hw-mod then00:59
DocScrutinizernicely embedded in signature-protected xloader/NOLO the device could've simply refused to load unsigned kernels unless the seal got broken01:06
DocScrutinizerno hacker would've bothered to find aegis loopholes anymore01:06
DocScrutinizerand Nokia could immediately refuse any warranty on devices with broken seal01:07
DocScrutinizereverybody happy01:07
CreamyG31337maybe, but the loopholes would still exist somewhere, it's kinda good to show nokia what they missed too01:12
itsnotabigtruckthe loopholes would still be there, and if there are any bad guys, they'd be the ones taking advantage of them01:16
itsnotabigtrucknokia *should have* implemented a fully baked security system, and quit trying to lock the user out of their phone, but, well, it's a bit late for that01:17
itsnotabigtruckand your incessant complaining has done absolutely nothing for anyone01:17
Sazpaimon_[17:58] <DocScrutinizer> if they had a brain at Nokia, they'd have implemented a simple seal made of solder that you could cut to enable R&D mode01:22
Sazpaimon_not even that, they could just have a literal switch under a "warranty void if removed" sticker01:22
CreamyG31337Nothing a heat gun or label remover can't bypass.01:23
Sazpaimon_ive tried to get those stickers off cleanly01:25
Sazpaimon_theyre hard01:25
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: a real joy to see how well you know about anyone01:25
Sazpaimon_or they could go the microsoft route and just blow an efuse when you enable open mode/R&D mode01:26
CreamyG31337knife + heatgun works good on the xbox ones ;)01:26
DocScrutinizerif I was in the mood, I'd start another debate that prolly ended with you getting kicked, but MEH!01:26
DocScrutinizergot better things to do with my lifetime01:27
Sazpaimon_omap3 boards have efuses right?01:27
CreamyG31337yeah there's some efuse already to keep track of the suggested voltage for the batch i think, saw it in the smartreflex docs somewhere01:27
Sazpaimon_so there you go01:27
Sazpaimon_open mode efuse01:27
CreamyG31337yeah, that could work if no malicious app blows it for you :P01:28
Sazpaimon_that would be silly to allow access to that at the app level01:29
CreamyG31337well, no sillier than the other mistakes that allow access to things that they didn't mean to01:31
Sazpaimon_well, the assumption here was that "if they had a brain at Nokia"01:31
CreamyG31337i just don't think it's possible to write a secure os in their time frame01:32
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itsnotabigtrucki think it would have been possible to write a secure OS if they didn't use the ridiculous model that aegis relies on01:33
itsnotabigtrucksecure systems rarely increase privilege and often decrease privilege01:33
itsnotabigtruckaegis does the opposite01:33
itsnotabigtruckthat's why a standard linux system is fairly secure unless one of your daemons gets owned or the user does something stupid01:34
itsnotabigtruckbecause increase of privilege only happens at a small number of controlled points01:35
itsnotabigtruckaegis encourages people who aren't security aware to make practically everything on the system the equivalent of SUID root01:36
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npmitsnotabigtruck: what to you think of #tizen using SMACK ??02:40
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itsnotabigtrucknpm: meh, i don't know enough about smack or tizen02:42
itsnotabigtruckat least smack can control access to the filesystem02:43
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npmSee :-)02:45
Sputwait, Meego uses SMACK? or is that just the Intel version? or are Aegis and SMACK related somehow?02:50
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itsnotabigtrucksput: meego was going to use smack02:57
itsnotabigtruckwhich was going to be called MSSFv202:57
itsnotabigtruckthat never happened but apparently it got moved over to tizen02:57
itsnotabigtruckaegis doesn't have anything to do with smack02:57
itsnotabigtruckand it was being called MSSFv1 by the meego people but i guess at some point nokia went back to aegis when the intel/nokia combined project started going south02:58
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itsnotabigtruckso it was AEGIS, and then MSSFv1, and then Aegis, and at some point it was going to be replaced with MSSFv2 which is SMACK, but it didn't02:58
Sputitsnotabigtruck: ah, interesting... so that mail npm linked is post-Nokia and somewhat pre-Tizen02:59
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tehdelyspeaking of which02:59
Sputoh, 201102:59
tehdelythe first tizen conference was in SF this weekend02:59
Sputit still is02:59
tehdelyi was almost curious enough to attend02:59
tehdelythen i got invited to the mountains to ski02:59
tehdelyi went to the mountains and skied02:59
itsnotabigtrucksput: i think that post is from when they were working on MSSFv2 before they backtracked on it02:59
Sputitsnotabigtruck: yeah, I just realized that it's 2012 already :)03:00
itsnotabigtruckand it's sort of post-nokia but it wasn't official yet then03:00
tehdelyoh wait, the conference is going on this week03:00
itsnotabigtruckso it's from when nokia was supposedly working on meego but wasn't :p03:00
tehdelyi thought it was this weekend03:00
tehdelyi should crash it03:00
Sputtehdely: livestream going on right now03:00
tehdelyhyatt regency is not far!03:00
Arkenoidamn. why not abandon that shit and use SELinux03:01
tehdelythere is a 5k "fun run"03:01
tehdelyi should show up and get the t-shirt03:01
Sputitsnotabigtruck: I think Nokia was working on meego (or harmattan at least) until very recently03:01
tehdelythat will be a collector's item in future years03:01
tehdely"I was there at the Tizen conference... that changed EVERYTHING"03:01
itsnotabigtruckSput: that's the thing, at some point they forked03:01
tehdelywell, there's the whole Meltemi thing03:01
itsnotabigtruckwell, actually, i'm not sure what happened since i wasn't in on it03:01
* Sput does wonder what Intel provided to the partnership... at least the pure Intel-Meego tablet I've seen a few months ago was quite unusable03:01
itsnotabigtrucki think it's more like nokia worked on meego for a while03:01
itsnotabigtruckit became obvious it wasn't going to play out03:02
itsnotabigtruckthen grabbed a few parts of meego, put them on top of maemo6, and put a new ui on top of that03:02
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itsnotabigtruckand aegis was what was slated for maemo6 all along (the old powerpoints say maemo6)03:02
itsnotabigtruckwhereas mssfv2 and smack were going to be the future(tm)03:03
ArkenoiIntel's "contribution" was that Nokia lost more than year settling the things down with integration and harmonization with Intel instead of releasing maemo6 device early03:03
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itsnotabigtruckyeah, it was obviously a terrible move from the start03:03
SputArkenoi: that's about how I understood it from the outside03:03
itsnotabigtruckthe two OSs were intended for totally different products that have essentially nothing in common03:04
itsnotabigtruckfrom hardware to intended purpose03:04
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itsnotabigtruckto foundations03:04
itsnotabigtruckand somehow they were supposed to magically smush them together into meego03:04
itsnotabigtruckclearly it didn't work out03:04
Sputthe N9 could've been released in 2010 or even 2009 if Nokia had stuck with Maemo...03:04
tehdelyi wonder whether it would have changed much03:04
tehdelyif they had released it then03:04
SpeedEvil2009 I doubt03:04
Sputand saved the company in the process03:04
itsnotabigtruckwell, the UI probably would have been totally different03:04
GeneralAntillesN900 was released in 2009. . . .03:05
itsnotabigtrucki think the fancy UI is a relatively recent development03:05
itsnotabigtruckthe early N9 pictures showed meego, as in actual meego, not harmattan03:05
Sputhow did you recognize it's meego?03:05
Arkenoiand that fancy UI goes nowhere, because it is dead end and not opensource03:05
itsnotabigtruckbecause it looked like the meego handset ux03:05
itsnotabigtrucknot harmattan and its swipe stuff03:05
SputI don't think I've ever seen a pure Meego UI, except for that sorry thing Intel presented last summer03:06
Arkenoidevelopment directly for trash can03:06
SputArkenoi: who knows how the Next Billion is gonna look like...03:06
Sputconsidering that Nokia put a lot of effort into designing and promoting Swipe when the N9 was already declared dead03:07
SpeedEvilSput: It's gonna have a fruit on it.03:07
SputSpeedEvil: a banana?03:07
Arkenoiwell, i talked to a Nokia guy who told me "i do not understand why all meego developers are that upset, nothing is lost, it will be contribution for future systems"03:07
npmre "itsnotabigtruck: that mail npm linked" ... yes I wrote that mail and it was back when MeeGo was exciting and promising enough that I wanted to understand its security arch... pre Elopcalypse...03:08
npm^^^ sput03:08
* npm slow03:08
Sputnpm: ah, that was your mail :)03:08
mankelihey itsnotabigtruck, did you btw fix those fuse package permissions so that fusermount is accesible without devel-su?03:08
ArkenoiI responded: imagine you spent years building a spacecraft and then it gets cancelled, but "your development is contribution for biplanes we are going to use on local airlines"03:08
itsnotabigtruckand mankeli: nah, never finished it03:09
SputArkenoi: the good thing about investing time and effort into a Qt-based platform is that Qt will always live on :P03:09
Arkenoidon't know if there will be place for qt in that mysterious "next billion"03:10
SputArkenoi: the Next Billion will be Qt-based, Nokia has announced that much last summer...03:10
npmyeah. I've always seen Linux as a giant necropolis of failed plans and misplaced hopes... that you can still live in.03:10
befordbillion of what03:10
itsnotabigtruckthat's what the new ms vs looks like, apparently03:10
itsnotabigtruckis it just me or does that look kinda retro03:11
tehdelythe next billion will run on GNU/HURD03:11
itsnotabigtruckit looks like office xp03:11
tehdelyyou heard it here first03:11
npmit's like i even see some of the zombies i used to use back when i did SGI Irix03:11
itsnotabigtrucklike, from 2001 or 2002 or whenever it was03:11
itsnotabigtruckwith the flat look03:11
Arkenoiand Elop will certainly make some actions to prevent "next billion" devices from being too decent to compete with "first billion" ones, so they will be intentionally crippled down03:11
befordoffice xp look yea03:11
SputArkenoi: also you should consider how many people Nokia still pays for developing Qt03:11
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: damn :) is it a big job?03:12
Sput(also, Qt is a free project now, so even if all else fails, it'll be used and evolved in the FOSS world)03:12
npmindeed, how long before generic handsets appear on which some linux handset distro will run...03:14
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: mostly just a lot of annoying build/copy/install/test stuff that i don't want to do that much03:14
npmand given the back-door the US govt is forcing into handsets for ez-spying you may want to use such handsets
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: well hmm. since it already works without opensh, would it now be enough to just set the sticky bit?03:19
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: i mentioned before, the sticky bit doesn't do anything with aegis03:19
itsnotabigtruckand also, it has to do some uid twiddling so that you can't simply mount anywhere, but any user can mount in their own directories03:20
mankeliok ok. i'm just trying to understand the problem so i could do it myself03:20
itsnotabigtrucknormally, on debian anyway, there's a fuse grouo03:20
itsnotabigtruckand it owns the fuse files03:20
itsnotabigtruckand you're supposed to be in the fuse group to fusermount stuff03:21
itsnotabigtruckbut on harmattan there's no fuse group and the files are owned by root03:21
Sputin any case, before migrating to HTML5 or using once of the arcane C APIs (gtk, EFL) I'll rather stick with Qt03:21
itsnotabigtruckand that screws everything up03:21
itsnotabigtruckbecause fusermount is built assuming that the user has access to the fuse files03:21
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Arkenoibtw i was trying to sponsor pushing zRTP into Maemo03:23
itsnotabigtruckArkenoi: what do you mean?03:23
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: and that basicly means /etc/mtab?03:23
Arkenoiwe had just enough money (as estimated) for a few individual developers but certainly too little to hire a software development company03:24
Arkenoibut we could not find anyone who was able to complete the task03:24
Arkenoiseems that almost no one was interested in getting paid for that03:24
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: no, /dev/something03:25
itsnotabigtruckArkenoi: who were you working for03:25
itsnotabigtruckanyway, doing ZRTP right requires huge changes to telepathy and farsight03:25
Arkenoiitsnotabigtruck, "a group of interested individuals", let's name it that03:25
itsnotabigtruckbecause the telepathy people seem not to be able to care less about security03:25
itsnotabigtruckit also requires modifying the closed source call-ui for ZRTP GUI stuff03:26
Arkenoiyes, that's it03:26
itsnotabigtruckdoing ZRTP in a not-so-integrated fashion could be done03:26
itsnotabigtruckbut making it nice, not possible without some serious wheel-reinventing or nokia cooperation03:26
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itsnotabigtruckneither are likely03:26
itsnotabigtruckalso the existing libraries for both SRTP encryption and ZRTP key management kinda suck03:26
itsnotabigtruckmeaning it would likely be necessary to rewrite a lot of that03:27
Arkenoiwe know. we tried to find someone to do the job and we were willing to donate the result to the community03:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, first, the call-ui thing is probably an insurmountable barrier03:28
Arkenoithe sponsors themselves had just simple interest in creating crowd that makes them low-profile targets03:28
itsnotabigtruckat least without some heavy duty hacking03:28
itsnotabigtruckand second, it doesn't sound like this was broadcasted very loudly, maybe you didn't find anybody interested because no one interested knew03:29
Arkenoiit would be ok if key management is done via separate UI03:29
itsnotabigtrucka separate UI would be very ugly though03:30
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itsnotabigtruckideally, you could make a SIP or XMPP call to someone through the contacts screen03:30
itsnotabigtruckthen hit a "go secure" button and activate ZRTP03:30
Arkenoii broadcated it on #maemo several times, on telepathy mailing list as well and i contacted privately every person who mentioned who is into things even distantly related03:30
itsnotabigtruckwhich would then show the SAS for confirmation03:30
SpeedEvilArkenoi: :/03:30
Arkenoiitsnotabigtruck, yes, it is exactly as we would like to see it03:31
itsnotabigtruckArkenoi: but it couldn't be like that if it were controlled through a separate app03:31
itsnotabigtruckunless maybe something could be made to float on top of call-ui03:32
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: okay, i'll have to look into it. i have to reboot my pc couple of times a day, so its quite annoying to always devel-su before being able to handle sshfs mounts.03:32
mankeliespecially that sometimes you cannot unmount a sshfs when the connection is broken03:32
mankelimoshfs would be sweet ;)03:33
itsnotabigtruckwell, i don't think mosh is supposed to substitute for ssh for non-interactive stuff03:34
itsnotabigtrucklike file transfer03:34
itsnotabigtrucki mean, it *uses* ssh itself for non-interactive stuff03:34
mankeliyeah, of course not. and it wouldn't help anyway because if the pc is being rebooted, the server forgets its keys03:36
mankeliiirc nfs already is stateless and udp-based03:36
Arkenoiitsnotabigtruck, we were thinking about "secure mode" button which forces all voIP connections to try encryption and hard-fail if it is not available03:36
Arkenoi(and OTR for IM, too)03:37
itsnotabigtruckugh, OTR03:37
itsnotabigtruckit's OK but not great, but everyone uses it because it's literally the only practical choice03:37
itsnotabigtruckand that's only because the XMPP standards people keep dragging their feet on doing something better03:37
Arkenoiyes, that's why exactly OTR, not anything else03:37
Arkenoirequires severe gstreamer and telepathy hacking, though03:38
itsnotabigtruckwell, anyway, building this exact sort of thing has been rather interesting to me, but i never took action because it seemed like an insurmountable level of work03:38
itsnotabigtruckmaybe it isn't though03:38
Arkenoiand some UI to control key management03:38
Arkenoihave a look, maybe i still can find some sponsorship, though most people who were willing to invest already lost their interest now03:39
Arkenoiwrite me if you have any estimations03:40
SpeedEvilArkenoi: That'd be awesome03:41
SpeedEvilArkenoi: OTP!03:41
Arkenoiok, going to sleep now, you have my email..03:43
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: ZRTP is transparent, means it could _always_ check if other end can also do ZRTP, and kick in if that's the case. No need for a "go secure" button really07:17
DocScrutinizeryou just need a requester showing the fingerprint, so users can confirm there's no MITM attack07:21
DocScrutinizerfor "known peers" there's not even a need for that07:22
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Arietgalal: you get my email?08:18
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befordmm help. Package applauncherd-launcher is not configured yet. what is this? I'm trying to deploy something from QtCreator, it was working some minutes ago08:43
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tgalalArie: Hey, u there?09:42
befordhi tgalal09:49
nivwwhere does fenix store the email messages?09:52
tgalalbeford: hey, how's it going?09:53
befordnot bad, you?09:53
nivwI run lsof |grep -v proc |grep fenix and see no files while it is running09:54
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denismnivw: tracker?09:54
tgalalbeford: any new bugs or notices about wazapp ?09:55
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nivwdenism: I dont understand09:57
nivwwhat is tracker in this context?09:57
befordyou probably already know, but smileys appear like chars with encoding issue, <someletter>+square09:57
tgalalah yeah I know about that, smileys not supported yet09:58
denismnivw: I think email message might be stored at tracker db09:59
denismnivw: you can try to reset tracker db and check - is it so or not... (but in this case everything will be lost - like contacts etc)09:59
nivwo ok,  is it sql like? how to remove all email messages from it?09:59
befordoh and I edited the qml file and added the Send message on the vkb10:00
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befordhad to change the TextArea to TextField, could'nt figure out how to do it with a textarea :P10:00
nivwwhere to read on tracker db in meego?10:01
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denismnivw: sorry do not remember the link, you can try also take a look to Qt Messaging Framework (QMF)10:04
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tgalalbeford: cool! can you send it to me ?10:05
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Maurice@tgalal : is there any place for one more beta tester ?10:21
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nivwdenism: I read the qmf database is sqlite, so I assume I can issue a sql command to remove all email messages10:28
tgalalMaurice: currently no. I'll send you if more are needed, thanks10:29
Mauriceok thanks10:30
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GentooXativamorning :)10:35
denismnivw: sorry I have never worked before, most probably - yes, or at least it should be possible in some other way10:39
denismbefore with these components10:39
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gabriel9|workguys, what options you have under push notifications in your N9's12:42
gabriel9|worki have only talk12:43
* leinir checks...12:43
leinirnokia pulse here12:44
gabriel9|workthere should be Twitter, or i am wrong12:44
leiniryeah, i'm afraid that doesn't to push, only pull12:44
leinirmronin' :)12:45
gabriel9|workit should work :/12:46
leinirwell... frals would be the person who is most likely to know precisely what's going on with that ;)12:48
fralstwitter/fb is not push notifications12:55
fralsthey pull (fb according to feeds settings, twitter once per hour in PR1.2)12:56
ZogG_laptopfrals: sup12:56
ZogG_laptopdid you find new job?12:56
fralsim setting up my own company atm12:56
fralsor well, im still in nokia12:57
fralstomrrow is my last day12:57
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djszapiX-Fade: ping12:57
djszapiX-Fade does the apps4meego server use database solution in the background, and if yes, which one ?12:58
ZogG_laptopfrals: own company == freelancer?12:59
ZogG_laptopfrals: i saw your twits of leaving Nokia a while ago ...12:59
fralsyes, but one does not simply walk out of nokia ;)13:00
ZogG_laptopthought you moved already and left it13:00
ZogG_laptopfrals: lol =)13:00
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tgalalfrals: which nokia u r at?13:02
fralstheres more than one? ;)13:02
fralsin HEL, MeeGo13:03
ZogG_laptoptgalal: our mystery pal =P13:03
ZogG_laptopfrals: and don't you have any section in contract that forbid you to work with/for mobile companies for a while?13:04
ZogG_laptopfrals: i just in kinda wierd situation now13:04
fralsim waaaaaaaay to low in the company hierarchy for that stuff13:05
ZogG_laptopfrals: i worked as tech support for some very low company13:05
ZogG_laptopand now they sending mails that they would sue me if i would work in other VoIP company13:06
ZogG_laptopi worked there half year and they want me not to work other companies for 24 months13:06
djszapiwell, you need to agree upon something with the company.13:07
SpeedEvilRead your original contract. Talk to an employment lawyer13:07
djszapiSomething, that you accept.13:07
SpeedEvilNot if it's not in your contract, or you don't sign a new contract.13:07
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ZogG_laptopit is in contract13:08
ZogG_laptopbut it's not quite legaly13:08
ZogG_laptopi just didn't pay attention to that as i wanted job and i knew it's not quite legaly13:09
djszapicontract is not a toy.13:09
ZogG_laptopthe problem is that i found nice job in same area as developer while other company would teach me, and nice place. but prev. boss called new one and told him not to take me coz he would sue me and them13:10
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djszapiwell, you need to learn the lesson.13:10
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it is not a toy, but i worked enuf cheap works to know that there are not legal contracts13:10
djszapithere are not ?13:11
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: the funny thing that as i heard simuliar happened to one of guys working years before me and he won in court =)13:11
djszapiif you prefer spending your time with court, and lawyer fights, well go for it and win :)13:12
djszapijust be assured, you need to pay money either way unless you are a better lawyer than the company has.13:12
tgalalZogG_laptop: mystery pal?:D13:12
djszapior a professional does the assistance for free, etc.13:13
matrixxno company can own your knowledge :)13:13
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: they can't tell me not to work for 2 years, with any company working with Asterisk, as they just hurt my freedom of work for too long time, as well as most things they work with are opensource and GPLv2 and all tutorials are in internet =)13:13
djszapiZogG_laptop: if you signed a contract with those conditions, yes, they can.13:13
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: nope13:13
djszapiunless there is a higher-priority law overriding that.13:13
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it's like if they add "if you late for 15 minutes we do not pay you for whole day"13:14
djszapithey do that in Hungary.13:14
ZogG_laptopthey can add that to contract, right? it doesn't make it legal13:14
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: yeah and in china they probably cut yur head off13:14
ZogG_laptopsaw it doesn't make it legal13:15
ZogG_laptopthat's the point13:15
ZogG_laptopas a student i needed job so i agreed, but it's still NOT legal13:15
ZogG_laptopand it's not about who is right or ot13:15
djszapiI think you were naughty then13:15
ZogG_laptopmy new boss tried to talk to old one13:15
djszapinot enlighting them, if it is not legal in your country.13:15
ZogG_laptopbut he is acting like a dick13:15
djszapiboth parties should have a clear picture before signing the agreement13:16
djszapiif I know something, I surely do tell them, if they will shot in the head in your country...13:16
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it's company of about 10 people, when boss is not tech and do not care about anything except ego and money.13:17
ZogG_laptopi can't harm him13:17
ZogG_laptopin any way13:17
djszapiwell, go for a legal court fight if that is your way :)13:17
djszapiwhat can we say13:17
djszapiI would personally avoid such situations.13:17
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ZogG_laptopall company secrets i know are in innternets anyway as they use opensource13:18
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: he just fu# job i found and now i have no job, i bet i would go to court13:18
ZogG_laptopi talked to few layers and law on my side here13:18
djszapithat does not mean peace is also on your side...13:19
ZogG_laptoptgalal: yes, i think it's not relevant already, but did you see my answer about red icon in accounts?13:19
ZogG_laptopfrals: btw i have question about plugins, if i make plugin for account when i deploy it to n9 to plugins dir it's not executable ...13:20
ZogG_laptophow can i manage it to be executable13:21
ZogG_laptoplike you did with twitter13:21
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djszapiZogG_laptop: dpkg -L is your friend13:23
djszapifor the given package.13:23
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: ?13:27
djszapiZogG_laptop: dpkg -L will list you the files of a certain package installed13:28
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djszapiif you have the deb only, you can also use dpkg -c13:28
djszapiso you will see what files those install.13:28
djszapibasically you can even do this with any builtin plugin.13:28
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i build the package and i can't deploy to users plugin not executable and i need to chmod +x as root after install13:28
ZogG_laptopi can't give it to users like that13:28
djszapiI had to do the same13:28
djszapilast year13:28
djszapibut I do not see the problem13:28
djszapipost inst script can do chmod +x13:29
djszapiWhat is the problem ?13:29
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: the problem is if i want to send package to users i don't them to do it mnually13:30
djszapiwhy would you do manually ?13:31
ZogG_laptopbecause file is not executble13:31
djszapiso why not use a postinst script like I mentioned couple of minutes ago ?13:32
tgalalZogG_laptop: yes that was exactly it, thanks a lot!13:32
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: ok, i'll check it, and i'll bug you later if i'll have problems13:39
djszapiright, you should not since I have done the same in kanagram and khangman as well. It does not even require further aegis manifest file.13:42
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GentooXativaback :D16:35
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Elleois there some way of convincing pkgmgr in the emulator that it has a network connection?18:19
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Elleo(the qemu based emulator this is)18:19
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lpapp|toughbookmerlin1991: piiiiing!19:32
itsnotabigtruckElleo: hmm19:33
itsnotabigtruckdo you actually need to use pkgmgr19:33
Elleoitsnotabigtruck: I'm trying to replicate Nokia QA's apparent problem installing my application19:34
itsnotabigtruckElleo: hmm...can't you test it on your phone then19:34
Elleoitsnotabigtruck: it works fine there19:34
Elleoand it works fine for about 40 other people19:34
Elleoas far as I can tell its probably because they're using a clean image and haven't let it update (so the python packages aren't listed as available in the repositories)19:35
Elleoif I do an apt-get update manually on it then try installing it it doesn't complain19:35
itsnotabigtruckElleo: are you sure you didn't just miss a dependency19:35
itsnotabigtrucktry reflashing, then installing your app first thing19:35
Elleobut I can't work out what procedure they *should* be following prior to trying to install19:35
Elleoitsnotabigtruck: I'd rather do it on the emulator, to avoid having to reflash19:36
Elleoplus their message says it doesn't even install19:36
Elleowhich it doesn't if you have an absolutely clean image19:36
itsnotabigtruckok, it's just that it's not very uncommon for python app devs to screw up their dependencies19:36
itsnotabigtruckand assume that everyone's phone has the same already-installed packages theirs does19:37
Elleobecause it can't resolve *any* python-pyside packages until after you've update the repositories it seems19:37
itsnotabigtruckand there's a lot of them19:37
itsnotabigtruckthat's pretty weird19:37
itsnotabigtrucksounds like the usual nokia qa being totally dodgy stuff19:37
Elleoplus the previous version of my app made it through QA without any issues19:37
Elleothere have only been some pretty minor changes (none requiring extra dependencies)19:37
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Elleobut I want to be certain there isn't something I'm missing before resubmitting it19:38
Elleowhich is why I'm trying to do stuff against a clean image in the emulator19:38
Elleoit'd be nice if the QA response wasn't simply "The installation fails." with zero details19:40
Elleooh well, I'll just resubmit it and hope that was the issue they were having, along with a note explaining that they need to update the package list prior to installing19:45
itsnotabigtruckmention that it can be done with19:45
itsnotabigtrucksettings > applications > manage applications > updates tab > hit the refresh button19:45
itsnotabigtruckthough i'm a bit skeptical, i'd have imagined this would have affected other python based apps19:46
Elleowell this is just my experience from testing with a clean image in the emulator19:46
Elleo"apt-cache search python-pyside" shows no packages with a fresh install, and the installer claims that dependencies can't be resolved19:47
Elleoafter doing "apt-get update" it doesn't have that problem19:47
ElleoI'd have thought doing something like that would be part of the normal procedure prior to testing an app19:48
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Elleoand whoever did QA on my app last time didn't have any problems19:50
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befordanyone happens to know when ovi payments are issued?20:15
lpapp|toughbookby PR 1.4 :)20:16
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ieatlinthaha, tizen devices... there's something kinda hilarious about having a tizen branded phone running efl in my hand20:29
lpapp|toughbookanybody having wacom touchscreen stuffy ?20:30
jonnibeford: depends what you mean by payments :)20:38
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GeneralAntillesieatlint, how's it feel?20:49
MohammadAGplasticky I'd say, given that it's made by Samsung20:50
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ieatlintit feels like a toy20:51
ieatlintit's a dev reference device, not production quality by far20:52
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ieatlinthaven't gotten on console yet, but i'm told it's 1.2ghz dual core arm (not clear what chip), 1gb of ram20:52
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GeneralAntillesand Tizen?20:55
ieatlintyes, tizen.... i'm unclear if it has a cellular modem on it.  there's a dialer app, and a couple references to the sim (including one screen that notes no sim is present)20:55
ieatlintand there is a sim card holder under the battery, but i don't have a minisim anymore to try it20:55
ieatlintbut the software isn't horrible... kinda feature phone-esque20:57
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virtualdcan't you just cut a regular sim to size (not a too old one)20:59
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infobotmethinks ~. is not the escape sequence you're looking for.21:06
ieatlintit was, a minute ago :)21:06
ieatlintvirtuald: minisim is a 'regular' sim card21:07
ieatlintmy sim card is micro21:07
ieatlintbesides, i wouldn't cut a sim card to try out a dev device for 5min :P21:07
virtualdi have some prepaid sims but never enough21:08
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MohammadAGspent half an hour trying to fix a compilation error21:27
MohammadAGrealized it's because I forgot the namespace of the class, method instead of Class::method() when implementing it :/21:27
MohammadAGI blame obj-c21:27
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MohammadAGalso how do I freaking suppress QNetworkReplyImpl::_q_startOperation was called more than once from output21:59
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gabriel9frals: ping!22:38
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djszapiieatlint: so how is the tizen thingie ?23:10
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