IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-05-03

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gabriel9sure it counts :)00:02
gabriel9some other person even touch you :)00:02
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Sazpaimoni had a small world moment there too00:04
Sazpaimonthe girl who cut my hair turned out to be someone i met at a party00:05
Sazpaimonwhich was kinda crazy00:05
junglizermy small world moments always turn out to be negative. Like "oh I know her! Well now she's my best friends ex-boyfriend & baby's momma"00:06
Sazpaimonunfortunately thats what happened00:06
Sazpaimonshe kept looking up at me smiling afterwards00:07
Sazpaimonunfortunately for her i already have a girlfriend00:07
Sazpaimonunfortunately for me I felt bad so I didn't ask her for advice on what conditioner I should get her when I left00:07
Sazpaimon(she's always bitching that I don't get the right shampoo/conditioner)00:08
Sazpaimonsorry bitch I like head and shoulders00:08
Creteilwell, I have asked something in #N9 but it look like all people sleeping in this channel, so I ask here, is there a way to rebuild sms's database tracker ?00:08
SazpaimonCreteil, did you delete the cache folder?00:09
CreteilActually, the messages application report no messages ... Sazpaimon, no, I have not deleted anything about cache ...00:09
Sazpaimoncheck if you have ~/.cache/tracker/meta.db00:10
Sazpaimonthat's where SMSes are stored00:11
Creteills: can't open '/home/user/.cache/tracker/': Permission denied00:11
Creteilafter switching to devel-su ...00:11
Creteild---rwx---    2 metadata metadata      4096 May  2 22:49 tracker00:12
Creteilstrange permission ...00:12
Creteillook like another changed permission after pr1.2 (like ~/.calendar)00:13
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: go opensh00:13
Creteilsh: opensh: not found what I need to install to be able to use opensh ?00:13
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: inception and opensh00:13
itsnotabigtruckopensh basically gets you true root access00:14
itsnotabigtruckwhich includes the CAP::dac_override permission that gives you full filesystem access00:14
Sazpaimonjust try with develsh00:14
Sazpaimonwhich should work fine as well00:14
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, installing these 2 packages doesn't break anything ?00:14
SazpaimonCreteil, try running develsh first00:14
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: develsh isn't going to help if he wants to modify/delete anything00:14
itsnotabigtruckit only provides full read-only access00:14
Sazpaimonthats fine00:15
Sazpaimonyou shouldnt need to modify meta.db anyway00:15
itsnotabigtruckthough Creteil: no, it won't break anything00:15
Creteil-rw-r--r--    1 user     metadata  73322496 May  2 22:48 meta.db00:15
itsnotabigtruckjust make sure you follow all the instructions, it won't work if you just install the 2 packages00:15
Sazpaimonin fact, its for the best that you dont modify meta.db00:15
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, thanks I'm gona installing these 2 packages ...00:15
itsnotabigtruckeven if you don't need it you should get inception anyway :p00:15
Sazpaimonwith PR1.3 around the corner, I dont know if reccomending inception is a good idea00:16
CreteilSazpaimon, I doesn't need to modify meta.db, checked with develsh, it look like the file was here ...00:16
Sazpaimonyeah it's there and it looks like it has content00:17
CreteilSazpaimon, so, now, since the file exist, what I need to do to see my sms coming back ?00:17
Sazpaimoncheck top and see if any tracker processes are running00:17
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Sazpaimonif they are, they should be at the top of... top00:17
Creteil~ # ps aux | grep track | grep -v grep00:17
Creteil 1286 user     /usr/lib/tracker/tracker-miner-fs00:18
Creteil 1294 user     /usr/lib/tracker/tracker-store00:18
Sazpaimontry killing those processes00:18
Creteilwhell, they are not at top of top :-)00:18
Sazpaimonhave you tried reboting the phone btw?00:18
CreteilSazpaimon, yes 3 times already ...00:19
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: see pm00:20
CreteilSazpaimon, you need to know I have installed FasterN9 :
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Sazpaimoni havent used fastern9, did it happen immediately after installing it?00:21
CreteilSazpaimon, no00:23
CreteilUsing it since the announce f the 0.0.2 version ...00:24
Creteilanyhow, is there a way to force the tracker rebuilding database process ?00:24
CreamyG31337tracker-control -r will reset all databases00:25
Sazpaimondon't run that00:25
Sazpaimonit will also delete all contacts, feeds, and chats00:26
Sazpaimonive found sometimes plugging the N9 in to USB will initiate a tracker rebuild though00:26
CreamyG31337well if tracker-stats gives the list of mime types, you can tell it which one to reindex00:28
CreteilOh, by the way I have the problem since today afternoon when the device shutdown since I have no more battery ... does it count ?00:29
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CreteilSazpaimon, there is no valuable tip to rebuild the tracker meta.db ?00:31
CreteilSazpaimon, I have managed to completely kill the 2 tracker processes with successive killall's ...00:33
Creteil~ # ps aux | grep track | grep -v grep00:34
Creteil~ #00:34
infoboti heard # is pound, or hash, or sometimes the number sign. a tic-tac-toe board, or octothorpe00:34
Creteilnothing ...00:34
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CreamyG31337try tracker-control -m=text/plain00:40
itsnotabigtrucklol @ creteil/infobot00:41
itsnotabigtruckEA timebombed rock band for iphone00:41
itsnotabigtruckand it's still available for purchase, with no warning00:42
CreteilCreamyG31337, actually the device is rebooting, since I have no more answer when I have killed the 2 tracker processes ...00:42
itsnotabigtrucki.e. they'll happily take your $7 for an app that will then pop up a box saying it'll cease to work at the end of the month00:42
CreamyG31337itsnotabigtruck, why doesn't that surprise me00:42
CreamyG31337Creteil, sorry, i am just guessing anyways. not sure what mime type to put00:43
CreteilCreamyG31337, no problems ...00:43
Creteil~ # tracker-control -m text/plain00:45
CreteilReindexing mime types was successful00:45
CreteilBut no more messages in the messages application :-(00:46
CreamyG31337maybe it takes a while?00:46
CreteilDamn, what guys at nokia do ??? Why they didn't mimic the N900 behavior and just add the swipe ...00:46
CreamyG31337tracker-control shows what its doing00:47
CreteilCreamyG31337, may I paste result from 'tracker-control' here without be warned about flood ?00:48
Creteil02 May 2012, 23:47:11:  ✓     Store                         - Idle00:48
Creteil02 May 2012, 23:47:11:  ✓     Applications                  - Idle00:48
Creteil02 May 2012, 23:47:11:  ✓     Système de fichiers          - Processing…00:48
Creteil02 May 2012, 23:47:12:  ✓     Userguides                    - Idle00:48
CreamyG31337ok well just keep checking and when they all say idle try looking at your messages00:50
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itsnotabigtruckCreamyG31337: that wasn't too long but next time use a pastebin :)01:19
itsnotabigtrucklike https://crypty.ch01:19
CreamyG31337i was gonna tell him that, itsnotabigtruck, but i can never remember that site name01:21
CreamyG31337anyways are the sms even stored somewhere outside of tracker db? all this reindexing is pointless if not01:21
itsnotabigtruckCreamyG31337: it's supposed to be pronounced like cryptic, if that helps :p01:22
itsnotabigtruckthe crypto feature is pretty useless on a publically logged irc though01:22
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junglizergod damn this device is finicky02:06
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CreteilDamn, searching on TMO I'm reading same troubles about no more messages in sms's history, and a user saying he also loose gallery ... so I check, AND I also loose the gallery !!!02:08
CreteilCan someone kill the f*****g developer making the mistake ...02:09
itsnotabigtruck*loose -> lose02:09
merlin1991Creteil: afaik the gallery should reindex02:09
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itsnotabigtruckwish i could help you with your tracker problem but i don't know the first thing about it02:10
itsnotabigtruckif it helps, remember that lose and loose are pronounced very differently02:10
merlin1991itsnotabigtruck: the most important thing to know about tracker on harmattan is "never ever ever ever wipe it's db"02:10
merlin1991some $%&()?/%&$ dev decided that some things like sms get stored there and are lost if you reset the db to reindex stuff02:10
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, nothing more I loose the gallery and sms's, don't know if there is another thing depend from tracker but at least I loose these 202:11
Creteilmerlin1991, I have never wiped anything02:11
Creteilmerlin1991, only just looking if files exists ...02:11
Creteilmerlin1991, files exists and they are not empty ...02:12
CreteilAt least contacts are here without troubles ...02:13
CreteilHow does a consumers product can be out with this sort of bug ?02:13
CreteilI'm not a completely assisted user, I know well linux and derivatives but here, I don't understand how the N9 (out after the N900) can be so bugged like that ...02:14
CreteilIt's like new developers starting working on the meego/harmattan project without looking back to the maemo ...02:15
junglizerto be fair, there are loads of problems w/ Android devices02:15
CreteilEven the mail client is lame02:15
Creteilfenix just doesn't permit to manage properly mails like under my old N900 ...02:16
itsnotabigtruckmy main problem with fenix is that it's both lacking in features and closed source02:16
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itsnotabigtruckso adding features requires completely renventing the wheel02:17
itsnotabigtruckand would probably miss stuff like exchange support02:17
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: alright, so I made it into the flasher, but it stopped recognizing it part way through (I think b/c of windows) then it saw it but it's at 0% battery02:18
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: now it's just blinking the status led02:18
itsnotabigtruckcan anyone confirm that it charges in that mode02:18
itsnotabigtrucki think atm you should just let it sit02:18
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, why, so why they doesn't leave community managing their mistakes ...02:19
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: if you do flasher -i, does it still work02:19
junglizerwell flasher is still running, it's saying "charging battery 0% (requires 11%) ctrl-c to exit"02:19
itsnotabigtruckoh ok02:20
itsnotabigtruckthen leave it running i guess02:20
itsnotabigtruckjust don't touch anything02:20
itsnotabigtruckhopefully it'll update as it goes so you can watch it02:20
junglizerwell the windows drivers did get installed also02:20
itsnotabigtrucki hope the problem isn't a dead battery or something like that02:20
itsnotabigtruckthe battery can be replaced but it's not easy02:20
junglizerhow can you get a battery anyhow?02:20
junglizerI'd probably just buy a damn new phone :/02:21
junglizerN9, even with all this shit, probably.02:21
itsnotabigtruckthere's a few parts shops that sel them02:21
Creteiljunglizer, :-)02:21
itsnotabigtruck*sell  they aren't that expensive, maybe $40 net02:21
itsnotabigtruckor even less02:21
junglizerjust a royal pita to swap02:21
itsnotabigtruckbut it requires completely splaying the thing out to swap out the battery02:21
junglizerprobably worth it, not like it works w/o a battery anyways02:22
itsnotabigtruckit isn't necessarily a dead battery anyway02:22
itsnotabigtruckbut it should have been charging before02:22
merlin1991junglizer: are you out of warranty already?02:22
merlin1991nokia care happily replace a dead battery in my n902:22
junglizermerlin1991: uh... I dunno. I live in the US02:22
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: well, the N9 hasn't been out a year, so that's not possible...but he's in the US02:23
infobotmerlin1991 meant: nokia care happily replaced a dead battery in my n902:23
CreteilOn my side I have and just received last week the one I ordered for my girlfriend anniversary ... Actually she use a Nokia E7, I hope she can use the N9 like the E7 for same usage ...02:23
itsnotabigtruckand nokia gives US customers a big fuck you02:23
itsnotabigtruckalso nokia care doesn't actually exist in the US02:23
junglizerIf I reaaaalllly wanted to go through the hassle I bet I could get some friends in Brazil to send it in02:24
itsnotabigtruckthey do offer ship-in warranty service but they won't support the N902:24
CreteilDamned empty gallery after a trip in spain with my mother ...02:24
CreteilF**K !!!02:24
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: the photos are stored in MyDocs/DCIM iirc02:25
itsnotabigtruckjust copy them out of there02:25
itsnotabigtruckphotos aren't stored in tracker02:25
itsnotabigtruckand try not to get so emotional about this, yeesh02:25
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, doesn't something like 'find . * -type f -exec touch {} \;' can do the trip ?02:26
CreteilDon't know what triggered the tracker re-indexing of things on this F******g device ... :-)02:27
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itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: is it up to 1%?02:28
itsnotabigtruckalso hopefully you're connecting it directly to your pc02:28
itsnotabigtrucknot like a keyboard usb port or something02:28
junglizeryes, right in the side02:28
junglizerusing the N9 cable02:28
merlin1991Creteil: -exec is not in the messybox find :/02:29
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Creteiltirred of all this S**T ...02:31
infobotCreteil meant: tired of all this S**T ...02:31
CreteilLet me see how the device react if I take a new photo ...02:33
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junglizeroh snaps!02:35
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: I have the NOKIA logo02:35
Creteildamn, just looking the gallery photo one by one in the preview from the photo apps let me see images ...02:37
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: hm, is that a change from before?02:37
itsnotabigtruckwhat does flasher say niow02:37
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: well it was just sitting there, so I decided to hold the power button, probably about 10 seconds or so02:38
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: try find -print0 | xargs -002:38
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: ah ok02:38
junglizerI heard the dooot-dooot noise that Windows made02:38
itsnotabigtruckdoes flasher connect now02:38
itsnotabigtruckyou need to catch it right when the bootloader is executing in order to put it into flash mode02:38
junglizernot now, but it gave me some messages and I saw the USB icon pop up on the screen02:38
Creteilrahhhhhhh !!!!!02:39
itsnotabigtruckyou need to be running flasher -i before you mess with the phone, that way it connects at the right time02:39
Creteil-rw-r--r--    1 user     metadata  73322496 May  2 23:41 meta.db02:39
Creteil^^^ before something ...02:39
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: does it charge in this state?02:39
Creteil-rw-r--r--    1 user     metadata   1199104 May  3 01:34 meta.db02:39
Creteil^^^ after something ...02:39
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: i think so, what's it doing now02:40
itsnotabigtruckjust run flasher -i and ask questions later02:40
itsnotabigtruckit'll wait until it can connect anyway02:40
junglizeryeah, flasher i is running02:40
CreteilIt's like a joke ...02:40
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: ok, so did it stall on NOKIA with the usb logo?02:40
junglizerphone is just sitting w/ teh screen on and NOKIA desplaying02:40
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: uh oh02:40
CreteilI don't know what causing this meta.db corruption ...02:40
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: ok, hm02:40
itsnotabigtruckhold the power button until it does something02:41
junglizerokay, progress!02:41
itsnotabigtruckwhen flasher -i gives you your current firmware and exits that means it's ready to flash02:41
junglizersort of, lol02:41
junglizerit did all that, but now it's back to it's old flashing LED tricks02:42
junglizerbut it says battery is at 4%02:42
itsnotabigtruckwell, leave it sitting for longer then02:42
junglizeroh god damn, I had to fiddle with it :/02:42
junglizerI ASSumed that it wouldn't be charging while blinking like before02:43
junglizerright as I mucked w/ it, the battery level jumped up to 5%02:43
itsnotabigtruckwhat kind of blinking are you talking about02:44
itsnotabigtruckpulsing means charging02:44
junglizeralright, looks like I got it charging via USB. dpesm02:44
itsnotabigtruckif it blinks sharply every second or so, that means update mode02:44
itsnotabigtruck"it blinks" doesn't say much02:44
itsnotabigtruckbecause it always blinks02:44
junglizer*doesn't appear to be pulsing02:45
itsnotabigtruckbtw how did you get it into this state, anyway02:45
itsnotabigtruckfailed flash?02:45
itsnotabigtruckdeep discharge?02:45
CreteilDAMN !!!02:47
CreteilRebooted, and no more contacts right now ...02:48
CreteilI think I really need help to recover from this step before I launch the device by the window ...02:48
junglizerokay back, had to take a call02:49
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: which state?02:49
junglizerI did a flasher -i, rebooted the phone. This detects it, and quits the flasher02:50
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: the state of it being pretty much kaputt, lol02:50
itsnotabigtruckok, well, you need to wait until it's charged enough that it'll let you flash02:50
junglizeroh I have no idea, I'm assuming it just completely died02:50
itsnotabigtruckwhich i guess is 11%02:50
junglizerthe guide recommends 50 I think02:50
itsnotabigtrucki mean, i imagine you'd have to do something unusual to make it do this02:50
junglizerwell you wouldn't think a firefox update would fuck your phone either, would you? LOL02:51
itsnotabigtruckwhat does hte firefox update have to do with anything02:51
CreteilI see all things disappearing one after one ... No more videos and no more musics right now ...02:51
CreteilIs it a joke §?02:52
CreteilIs it a joke ?02:52
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: oh get over it :|02:52
itsnotabigtrucki mean, data loss sucks02:52
itsnotabigtruckbut your photos, music, video, etc. aren't gone02:52
junglizerFirefox was updating, but hung. So I killed the updater application and when I rebooted my phone next it was hosed02:52
itsnotabigtruckyour messages and contacts might be and that sucks02:52
itsnotabigtruckdo you know what provoked this?02:52
itsnotabigtruckbut anyway, it's not like everything is lost, and you should have stuff like contacts backed up anyway02:53
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, it just sux02:53
CreteilHow we can lose data without knowing what provoked this ?02:54
CreteilAnd why Nokia doesn't release a fix quickly ???02:55
CreteilI have not noticed something like that with my N90002:56
CreteilOk, another question right now ... Since I have to admit Nokia F****D my data (at least contacts, sms's, mms's ...), what I need to do before completely flash the device ???02:58
CreteilI know how to flash, by the way what I need to save before and how ?02:58
Enforceriirc, the built in backup app doesnt backup sms/mms/im ?02:59
itsnotabigtruckwell, you probably need to do a flash of both eMMC and main02:59
itsnotabigtruckso you need to back up everything you care about02:59
itsnotabigtruckespecially stuff in your mydocs folder02:59
itsnotabigtrucklike your phoros02:59
CreteilEven on the comprehensive n9 flashing guide on TMO it's not clear, I mean they focus on how to flash but not on how to backup ... (I have already flashed the other one I have ordered for my girlfriend without any data to save before ...) ...03:01
CreteilOn this device, Nokia clearly made big mistake in terms of data backup & flash imho ...03:02
CreteilI don't really understand what does the backup option do ...03:02
Enforcerbacks up certain stuff to a .backups folder iirc03:03
CreteilEnforcer, you must admit at least even your answer is not clear :-) it's like everything is not clear on this device :-)03:04
Enforceri'm 99% sure it doesnt backup conversations ('Messages')03:05
itsnotabigtruckEnforcer: he's probably going to flash the emmc03:05
itsnotabigtruckso the stuff needs to be backed up OFF THE N903:06
CreteilEnforcer, now if I use the backup function and after that use the flash of both eMMC and main, does the .backup directory removed by the procedure ?03:06
Creteilyes !!!03:06
Creteilthanks itsnotabigtruck03:06
Creteilthis answering my question ...03:06
Enforcereverything under MyDocs is the EMMC03:07
itsnotabigtruckyoutube apparently doesn't allow you to buffer an entire video anymore03:07
Creteilso, reading many threads on TMO about pr1.2 flashing, I see many answer saying for many bugs really fixed by pr1.2 we need to flash main + emmc ...03:07
itsnotabigtrucki load the page, pause the vid, and it stops loading03:08
itsnotabigtrucki seek back to the beginning and play and it starts loading again, but only seconds ahead03:08
itsnotabigtruckalso seeking back itself resets the buffer03:08
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, it's one of the less important trouble I see about this device :-)03:08
itsnotabigtrucki was talking about youtube w/ flash on the pc btw, not the N9 :p03:09
itsnotabigtruckanyway, yeah, you should probably upgrade to pr1.2 with a full flash in all cases03:09
itsnotabigtruckupgrading through the update system is kind of hit or miss03:09
itsnotabigtrucksorry about your data loss, a lot of people here really don't like tracker because of stuff like this03:09
itsnotabigtruckit's an interesting concept but badly implemented03:10
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, I was reluctant about full flashing since pr1.2, but now I have no more options, look like I in the way to flash main + emmc03:10
Enforcerwhy flash emmc?03:10
itsnotabigtruckEnforcer: for one it'll obliterate any b0rked tracker database left behind03:11
Creteilhope the surprise of pr1.3 is the fix for all these problems/implementations ...03:11
itsnotabigtruckand a lot of the pr1.2 upgrade problems are due to config files, tracker stuff, etc. being left behind03:11
Enforcertracker db is under MyDocs?03:11
itsnotabigtruckprecisely the stuff flashing emmc gets rid of03:11
itsnotabigtruckit's under ~ i believe03:11
itsnotabigtruck~user and ~user/MyDocs are both eliminated with the emmc image afaik03:11
infobotitsnotabigtruck: okay03:11
junglizeritsnotabigtruck: Yay! Flashing03:11
itsnotabigtruckwhoops, lol03:12
infobotuser is, like, currently detached. Talk to this user upon their return. You will now be ignored. [HackFactor Elite 2.0], or a synonym for moron03:12
Enforcer/dev/mmcblk0p3 == /home (2GB)03:12
itsnotabigtruck~user and ~user/MyDocs03:12
infobotuser and ~user/mydocs are both eliminated with the emmc image afaik03:12
Enforcer/dev/mmcblk0p1 == /home/user/MyDocs (53.7GB)03:13
itsnotabigtruckEnforcer: yep03:13
Enforcerso anything under home is emmc03:13
CreteilAnd a new s**t occur :-) since I want to benefit the pr1.2 quickly I have flashed the version 006 in case of the original 005 of my device ...03:13
Enforcerbut MyDocs is much bigger than the rest of /home03:13
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: if you were on PR1.1, you should flash PR1.2 00103:13
Enforcererr, 005?03:14
itsnotabigtruckafaik 006 gets updates no faster than 00503:14
Creteilnow I need to launch navifirm from my mother slow dsl connection to feetch pr1.2 version 005 ...03:14
itsnotabigtruckhowever, 001, 005, 006, and 009 all get updates pretty fast03:14
itsnotabigtruck100 and higher takes forever to get updates, you don't want those03:14
itsnotabigtruck003 is the china version, you don't want that either03:14
Enforcer299 ftw03:14
itsnotabigtruck299 not ftw :p03:14
Creteilitsnotabigtruck, I know how to flash, it's just the files I need to download ...03:15
Creteilfrom a slow connection ...03:15
CreteilI'm on vacation at my mother home ...03:15
itsnotabigtruckjunglizer: so did it work?03:15
junglizerYES YES YES!03:15
itsnotabigtrucki'm guessing that's a yes03:16
Creteillook like :-)03:16
itsnotabigtrucknow get this
Creteilgood to know someone can be happy with this device :-)03:16
itsnotabigtruckalso get this
itsnotabigtruckif you get apps for meego, you can install ad-hac through there03:17
itsnotabigtruckand this too though setting a overclock that's too high is a good way to corrupt your tracker and other stuff and have to reflash like creteil is doing :p03:18
itsnotabigtruckseems like many people have had good results with a mild 100 MHz overclock03:18
itsnotabigtruckand no overvolting03:18
CreteilDon't remember, does the N9 can be accessed in usb host mode when I turn it off and connect it to my computer via usb cable ?03:19
itsnotabigtruckCreteil: you can put it in mass storage mode while it's turned on, if that's what you mean03:20
itsnotabigtruckwhen powered down, it only charges03:21
itsnotabigtruckthe N9 itself can't be put into host mode (yet, anyway) but i don't think that's what you meant03:21
Creteilsorry s/usb host mode/usb mass storage/03:22
Creteilby chance I have leave the 2 files with 006 version on my computer !!!03:22
Creteilno need to reload 006 version (now I have already 006 flashed, so cannot downgrade to the 005 version ...) .03:23
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Creteilhow to save a favorite drive ?03:34
NecrosporusHow do I remove preinstalled packages, keeping mp-harmattan-001-pr on place?03:38
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: one way is to edit /var/lib/dpkg/status and modify the dependencies of mp-harmattan-001-pr03:46
itsnotabigtruckbe careful to preserve the format of the file03:46
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Creteiloh damn, I also see we can't properly save notes on this f*****g phone ...03:56
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Arietgalal: I just wanted to know why wazapp is a stand alone app vs. a telepathy plugin?05:20
tgalal_Arie: because nokia's documentation for harmattan is SHIT and there were no guarantees I'd be able to achieve many of whatsapp's features as a telepathy plugin. features that are not even supported by any of the existent protocol plugins even as a proof of concept05:26
tgalal_message delivery statuses, sending media, sending location, user typing and others05:26
Enforceryet there is plenty of telepathy plugins currently?05:27
Enforcerdoes wazapp allow sms fallback?05:28
itsnotabigtrucki think telepathy is fairly well documented, after all it's not a nokia project anyway05:29
itsnotabigtruckas for accounts plugins, that's another story05:29
itsnotabigtruckif you need any help with that just ask05:29
itsnotabigtruckthe best approach for the accounts plugin probably depends on how authentication in whatsapp actually works05:30
itsnotabigtrucktgalal_ ^05:30
itsnotabigtruckone of the benefits of the telepathy approach is that it would be possible to slot it in on a linux system and use whatsapp from there05:31
itsnotabigtruckit's a real shame the accounts stuff is so poorly documented and difficult to use, a lot of apps could take advantage of it05:32
itsnotabigtruckbut few devs have taken it on05:32
itsnotabigtrucki tried to fix up aard_'s account plugin for xmpp (non-google-talk) and make it use SignOn for authentication, turns out it's rather difficult and i put that project on the backburner :(05:33
itsnotabigtruckthough i did get the SignOn stuff working eventually05:33
tgalal_itsnotabigtruck: it's like they cancelled documenting it, it starts nice and informative, then nothing, emptyness, a black whole05:33
itsnotabigtrucktgalal_: well, again, if you're having trouble you need to ask, because if you're going to get info about it anywhere it's probably here05:34
itsnotabigtruckthe main source of info is the libaccounts-ui source code on gitorious05:34
tgalal_itsnotabigtruck: yeah I know I did get it to work eventually so it's okay now05:34
tgalal_i'm almost there05:35
itsnotabigtruckalso somewhere on the nokia developer site is the code for the dropbox account plugin, sharing plugin, and signon plugin05:35
itsnotabigtruckor some variant of it anyway05:35
tgalal_no signon for python05:35
itsnotabigtruckno anything for python, if you want to integrate with the harmattan system stuff python isn't an option05:36
itsnotabigtruckbesides, aren't you a qt ambassador?05:36
itsnotabigtruckyou should live and breathe c++ and qt :p05:36
tgalal_but I am using qt05:36
tgalal_and now I know I should have used c++05:37
tgalal_oh wait05:37
tgalal_how did u know I'm a qt ambassador :D05:37
itsnotabigtruckit's not terribly difficult to find...05:38
Arietgalal_: you also work for Nokia now too if I'm not mistaken05:38
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tgalal_finally resolved resgistration issues !06:12
tgalal_it runs smoothly now, from registration to actual usage06:13
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itsnotabigtrucktgalal_: how does whatsapp authenticate?06:14
itsnotabigtruckit might be advisable to use SignOn06:14
Arietgalal_: congratulations06:15
tgalal_itsnotabigtruck: will I be able to use SignOn from python ?06:16
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itsnotabigtrucktgalal_: doubt it, but it does provide the ability to protect credentials with aegis06:16
itsnotabigtruckthough that isn't exactly strong protection...but it does make it significantly more difficult to grab passwords anyway06:17
Tronictgalal_: You should make a plugin instead of stand-alone app.06:18
TronicThe beauty of Harmattan is that everything is integrated with the OS instead of zillion stand-alone apps.06:18
tgalal_itsnotabigtruck: ah I wouldn't worry about protecting whatsapp's credentials. how whatsapp registers and logins is shit anyway06:18
tgalal_it's so damn insecure that I can literally setup a website where people can use it to hijack each others accounts06:19
itsnotabigtruckdoes it use SSL or some other crypto layer06:20
itsnotabigtruckif it does but it's optional (e.g. like most xmpp servers) it would be advisable to lock it to on06:20
tgalal_itsnotabigtruck: it's not about what it uses, it's about how it does it, it has a flaw, but I'm not exposing it just yet06:21
tgalal_Tronic: do you know how many times per day I get told that :)06:25
itsnotabigtruckwell, that's because it's true...of course, it is your app and your discretion06:27
itsnotabigtruckbut now people who insist on an integrated experience have to reinvent the wheel06:27
itsnotabigtruckthe standalone app approach is usually not a preferred option, it's just the only option on most platforms06:28
Arietgalal_: after you release the source, we have to re-engineer the whatsapp client as a plugin06:28
tgalal_Arie: not really, I might have no problem participating in that06:31
Arietgalal_: you're saying you will participate in that?06:32
tgalal_Arie: I said maybe :P06:33
Arietgalal_: Will you take itsnotabigtruck's help?06:34
itsnotabigtruckeh, i'm not committing to putting work into whatsapp stuff :p06:35
itsnotabigtruckit has about zero applicability to me06:35
itsnotabigtruckbut i'll try to help if i can anyway06:35
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tgalalah finally no underscores!06:41
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beford register your nick, that way you can ghost the old nick when your connection drops06:42
tgalalbeford: I do own it,  but it got stuck for some reason06:43
Arietgalal: irc ftw!06:46
itsnotabigtruckagh, so much laundry to do06:48
Arieitsnotabigtruck: get a maid or a gf06:50
tgalalsame here06:52
Arieitsnotabigtruck: or get a gf that's a maid for her part-time job, problem solved :)06:52
tgalali'm having an interesting day06:52
tgalalI've been working on the app since I got back from work (like 11 hours ago), and now I'm preparing to head to work again06:54
itsnotabigtruckdamn, you pulled an allnighter for it?06:54
CreamyG31337sorry to hear that06:55
Arietgalal: you are dedicated06:55
itsnotabigtrucki guess that makes sense, you're in UTC+something and it's about 0400Z06:55
CreamyG31337i can't code without sleep06:55
ArieCreamyG31337: there you are06:55
itsnotabigtruckyeah, never mind my design opinions, that's commitment :p06:55
CreamyG31337i was watching thor. had to switch my usa netflix to canadian netflix for it :|06:56
tgalalArie: I want this app for N9 as much as anyone waiting for it lol06:56
ArieCreamyG31337: I can't sleep without code06:56
Arietgalal: why is whatsapp so important?06:56
CreamyG31337there you go, you owe me :)06:56
tgalalit's not "important", I just use it alot06:57
Arietgalal: is it expensive to text in egypt or is gtalk not used?06:57
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tgalalArie: it's not so expensive to text, and gtalk is used, although not very popular there. I don't know what's so special about, maybe because it was originally created for mobile communication so it packs features suitable for mobile phones, that are not found in others07:01
Arietgalal: I'm a us N9 user, my family and friends mostly use iphones or android, my friends outside of the us are on gtalk, to me the idea of whatsapp and it's insecurity doesn't make me eager to use it at all07:03
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: except almost all of the "killer" whatsapp features you mention can be done with MMS07:03
itsnotabigtruckand on the N9 delivery status reports are turned on by default (which i think you mentioned as important)07:04
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: so you're saying whatsapp is similar to using a combination of SMS, MMS, and perhaps additional method like gtalk for groups convs07:06
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: well, i'm saying it's ~= to the first two07:07
itsnotabigtruckwhich is intentional, whatsapp is deliberately trying to be a low-cost internet replacement for sms and mms07:07
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itsnotabigtruckso the feature set directly mirrors sms and mms07:07
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itsnotabigtrucki mean, the entire selling point is that it's a drop-in replacement for SMS07:08
itsnotabigtruckthat doesn't even require using a new addressing scheme07:08
itsnotabigtruckotherwise there isn't much novel to it07:08
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CreamyG31337maybe it can do mms better than my provider, my messags always get "formatted for my device" which makes them like 64x64 pixels07:12
CreamyG31337i hate shit like that because i don't know who is at fault - my provider - friend's provider- or phone07:12
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Corsachmhm I don;t know much twitter but is there a way to refresh / get new tweets?08:54
CreamyG31337drag the list down in app08:56
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ieatlintdoes the panorama app crash on the n950 for anyone else?10:16
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tgalali don't get it, shouldn't mnotification take care of sound notifications as well according to specified eventType?!10:44
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MohammadAGtgalal: Should, but doesn't afaik10:52
tgalalMohammadAG: ignores eventType, ignores images, arghh!10:53
MohammadAGI'm guessing this is for Wazapp10:53
MohammadAGWhat images?10:54
tgalalimage or icon that appears in notifications10:55
MohammadAGThat works fine10:56
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tgalalMohammadAG: yes it's very similar to what I'm doing, except that I'm using python, but I'm sure I'm calling dbus method with required params11:00
MohammadAGtgalal: It's a valid image right?11:00
MohammadAGAlso I found it uses extension rather than mime type to load images11:01
MohammadAGSo be sure that the image has an extension11:01
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tgalalMohammadAG: it does, and I'm using the same exact image as the app icon which shows fine11:03
MohammadAGWith the full path?11:04
tgalalyeah absolute path11:04
MohammadAGWhat's the mime of the image?11:04
MohammadAGAlso, pm / /query11:05
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MohammadAGAnd the extension is .png I imagine11:10
MohammadAGThis is weird11:10
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rigoElleo, have you had any chance to advance the client?11:12
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Elleorigo: depends since when you mean ;), I released a new version about a week ago, and a couple of versiosns since we last spoke about it11:15
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Elleobut nothing since I released 0.2.111:15
rigohm, can it already post?11:15
Elleorigo: yep, that's been there for about a month11:16
Elleoalternatively you can get it in apps for meego's testing repository11:16
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rigowill install NOW!11:16
Elleocool :)11:17
rigodo you have it in the store?11:17
rigoovi store that is11:17
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Elleorigo: 0.2 passed QA a few weeks ago for the Ovi store, but it still hasn't been published by them11:17
Elleoso Apps for MeeGo is probably your best option to get the latest version as it comes out and to stay updated automatically11:18
rigook, installing from web site (because install from store is good for your statistics)11:18
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JaffaMorning, all11:19
rigoGood Morning, it's time for lunch11:19
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rigoElleo, is there a dpkg-URI for Apps for Meego that I can add? (spares me the searching if you have it handy)11:22
Elleorigo: not sure, the best idea is probably to install the apps for meego client though11:22
Elleothat way you can see reviews, ratings, and help with community QA though11:23
rigofrom ovi store?11:23
Elleowhich you can get from
rigowill do, review is important11:23
ElleoQA is especially helpful, it needs 6 positive community QA tests to move from testing into stable11:23
Elleocurrently it has 2 positive and 1 negative, although I think the negative one is from someone who doesn't quite understand the form (since its all positive apart from the option to allow it into the store)11:24
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Elleorigo: once you have apps for meego installed just go to settings and fill in your account details and click the button to enable review mode11:25
Elleothen you'll be able to install stuff from testing11:26
Elleoalternatively you can also do QA through the website:
Elleoby clicking the community QA button on the left, although you can't rate or review it there11:26
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rigorats, my nick is already taken11:31
Elleorigo: if you have a account it shares the same details11:31
Elleoe.g. for the meego forums or similar11:31
rigono, a Mexican was faster :/11:33
Elleoah, heh11:33
rigonever used his account11:33
rigowill invent something else11:33
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ElleoX-Fade: it'd be nice if users who reject apps in QA were asked to give a reason, I can't really work out why this user has "Should the application be in this catalog" unticked when everything else is positive:
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rigoElleo, account made, now in quue for installing11:48
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rigoElleo, works, but for my first post, I need your handle12:45
Elleorigo: @mikesheldon12:45
rigoFirst suggestion, increase the size of the editing window :) Hard to review one's text if it's hidden as the edit line only displays 40 charakters12:47
rigowill vote now12:48
Elleoyeah, I plan to; also want to add a count down for the number of characters left as well12:48
Elleobut need to change the design a bit for that, since the standard qt toolbard element I'm using at the bottom doesn't expand to be bigger very well12:48
Elleoso I need to replace it with something custom12:48
rigoI think so, the twitter client gives you three lines once you tap into it and re-collapses once you tap again outside the edit window12:49
Elleoyeah, that sounds like a reasonable way to go12:50
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djszapianybody having qtmultimedia experience from C++ without qml ?13:09
rigoyou look for a KDE developer, don't you?13:13
djszapiI am not.13:13
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DocScrutinizerFWIW: with TPS65951 (N9 (+N950?) companion chip) the USB VBUS voltage tolerance (aka ABS MAX RATING) changed from 0..7V to an incredible -2..20V14:13
DocScrutinizermeans your N9 should be prety much indestructible by plugging in defect chargers to USB14:14
DocScrutinizermodulo the ABS MAX of bq2415x charger chip14:16
DocScrutinizerbq24153 ABS MAX INPUT: 20V14:19
dm8tbrmains voltage + diode still doesn't work though ;)14:19
deramoh, does that mean that just connecting 9V battery can be used as emergency power?14:20
mankelitry 300 diodes!14:20
deramor does it still need the pullups for phone to start charging14:20
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rigoElleo, how to make a donation for the nice client?14:24
Elleorigo: no need for a donation, just enjoy it :)14:25
DocScrutinizerderam: nope, the ABS MAX doesn't say it can operate like normal. It just means it won't break14:35
deramDocScrutinizer: ok.14:36
DocScrutinizerin there's a note "VOVP 6.5V" which I read as overvoltage protection kicking in at 6.5V and then your charging will get stopped14:38
deramok.. just checked that Vin min is specified as 2.7V, so would couple of 1.5V cells be enough to charge?14:39
DocScrutinizerwith 4 pcs alkaline primary cells however...14:39
DocScrutinizerderam: I doubt that. AIUI bq2415x are step-down converters for charging from USB14:40
DocScrutinizerso your input voltage has to be higher than battery voltage14:40
DocScrutinizerI.E >4.5V14:40
DocScrutinizeryou might be able to keep battery at 10% charge with as low as 3.8V14:41
rigo:( ls: unrecognized option '--color=auto'14:41
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils14:41
DocScrutinizerIOW: apt-get install core-utils14:42
* DocScrutinizer hmm's14:42
DocScrutinizermaybe that's not THAT simple a thing to do, regarding paegis14:43
DocScrutinizer~4 * 1.6714:44
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DocScrutinizernominal voltage of a alkaline: 1.5V14:45
DocScrutinizerreal life voltage of a somewhat used cell: 1.4V14:45
deramDocScrutinizer: yeah I know, I'll just stick with my plan with 5V requlator + 9V battery, as those are more handy than separate cells14:46
DocScrutinizerbut also have max 250mAh14:46
DocScrutinizersufficient for ~30min operation of device14:46
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DocScrutinizerwhile a AAA has up to 2000mAh I'd guess14:47
deramhmm.. is it that bad.. well it is 6 AAAA cels after all..14:48
DocScrutinizer4 pcs AA NiMH make a nice 2200mAh 4.8V battery, rechargable14:48
derambut that one is huge to be carried around in pocket just in case14:49
DocScrutinizerfor that purpose I usually get original battery errr, sorry wrong chan, wrong device14:50
DocScrutinizerthere are relatively convenient formfactor external USB battery packs14:51
DocScrutinizerwhich, despite the name, can get charged also via USB, like your phone. And has a 1000mAh LiIon battery14:53
DocScrutinizerdelivers proper 5V14:53
deramdoes it deliver enough for N9 to charge... I have one Philis branded powerpack, that does not charge at all14:54
DocScrutinizeryes, it works (you just have to take care about shorting D+/D-, as usual)14:54
deramit says it has 350mA, which used to be enough for couple of previous phones14:54
DocScrutinizereven if you don'T short D+-, device still shall charge @ 100mA14:58
deram"Not enough power from the USB in order to charge the device"14:58
DocScrutinizerthis will result from device pulling higher current from USB than the USB battery pack can provide. Voltage drops (possibly even to a total cutout), and device detects low voltage on USB and pops up this msg15:00
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DocScrutinizeranyway I charged a N900 from empty to ~75% with one of the cabstone15:01
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DocScrutinizerand the nice thing: it never gets sour when even when you don't recharge for months and years, as long as you keep it somewhere where daylight occasionally powers the PV-cell15:03
DocScrutinizercomplete charging in direct sunlight will take like one day however15:03
DocScrutinizermaybe even two15:04
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jonniI made a short tutorial howto shorcircuit d+d- in here
DocScrutinizerwhich otoh means, with 6 of them you should be fine for your camping in the south15:05
DocScrutinizer(north if you're an aussi :-D)15:05
DocScrutinizerjonni: oh, the n-th tutorial? fine :-D15:06
jonniheh, yes, its been asked so many times, and I just happeded to get couple of those 1.5euro flex adapters so I couldnt resist15:07
DocScrutinizerthe micro-mini-howto: take an arbitrary USB cable, carefully cut the outer sleeve and remove braid/shielding on ~5cm, cut the white and green cable, connect white to green on the end of cable that goes to plug which plugs to phone15:08
jonnimy version was for blind people who dont know how to be carefull :)15:09
DocScrutinizers/green cable/green wire/15:09
infobotDocScrutinizer meant: the micro-mini-howto: take an arbitrary USB cable, carefully cut the outer sleeve and remove braid/shielding on ~5cm, cut the white and green wire, connect white to green on the end of cable that goes to plug which plugs to phone15:09
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DocScrutinizerW*T*F*?? I read "200 Ohm resistor" AGAIN!15:12
RST38hOhm ohm ohm15:14
jonniOmg :)15:15
CorsacCreamyG31337: doesn't seem to work (twitter refresh) when searching on a random hashtag15:21
CorsacCreamyG31337: though it might be because I don't have an account, but I'd find that a bit weird15:21
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DocScrutinizerjonni: I leave it up to you to explain all those fools who "wnat to do it the safe way" that MAX 200R doesn't mean using a 200R to short D+/- is any safe15:24
DocScrutinizerinability to read specs speak resulting in "common sense" false assumptions15:26
DocScrutinizer"value X of MAX n" mean value=n is WORST case and already at border to failure15:27
DocScrutinizerSAFE is trying to push n all the way in the opposite direction15:27
DocScrutinizerI.E "max 200R" means "short it!"15:28
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DocScrutinizerwhen noobs hear "short" they immediately think "fuse blows, blackout, sparks and smoke", so they prefer to go for the "MAX 200 Ohms" solution, as it feels more technically evolved and less scary15:32
DocScrutinizerjonni: I suggest you edit and delete the " (or add 200Ohms)"15:33
deramwell, usually the best is to go somewhere between the max and the other end, so I'd say 100Ohm wuld be the preferred15:35
DocScrutinizerderam: your idea is again false assumptions based on "common sense" and spec speak illiteracy15:36
DocScrutinizeryour idea was correct IF there was any minimum resistance mentioned15:37
DocScrutinizerlike MIN  1R MAX 200R - yes we should use sth near 100.5R for optimum15:38
derambut if your specs says it should be exactly 200Ohm, and some other specs says max 200Ohm, which one is wrong15:39
DocScrutinizerif however there's only one extreme mentioned, you best go all the way away from that extreme15:39
DocScrutinizerderam: HUH?15:39
deram"Page 7 shows the connection, “A Dedicated Charging Port is required to short the D+ and D- lines with a resistance of RDCHG_DAT”, page 29 specifies max 200 ohms across D+ and D-. Although the wording on page 7 suggests it should be exactly 200 ohms… Also on Page 29, a minimum of 2 MEGA ohms of resistance between D+ and ground or vbus. That is, not connected together at all."15:39
DocScrutinizer"my" spec says "max 200R"15:39
deramwell, something is wrong in the specs if that part is not meaning the 200 is the correct15:40
jonniedited that away, easier15:42
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pahow do i logout from scratchbox? it left a lot of stuff fuse-mounted15:53
DocScrutinizerderam: nope, the specs are absolutely correct when stating "**short** with a resitance <=200R"15:56
deramDocScrutinizer: ok. didn't read other than that part, which seemed little contradictory15:56
DocScrutinizerfor the EE this clearly reads as "make sure your wires and contacts don't sum up to >200R, when shorting the D+/-"15:56
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DocScrutinizerIOW it means that the spec for a device, to test for fastcharger, is: "probe resistance between D+ and D-. Consider each value lower than 200R as fastcharger idication"15:58
DocScrutinizerfrom that you easily can see why using a 200R to short the wires is a BAD idea15:59
deramyep, that is why i'd go for 100R or 1R, or read the usb fastcharger specs completely before deciding to go 0R16:00
DocScrutinizerwell, you're free to do that :-)16:00
DocScrutinizerI did, a gazilion times16:00
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derambut if that specs says it means shorted, then the 0R is the preferred way to do it16:01
DocScrutinizersee my post 6 up16:02
DocScrutinizerfor the EE this clearly reads as "make sure your wires and contacts don't sum up to >200R, when shorting the D+/-"16:02
deramsome might think there is delicate driver circuitry in that bus, so just shorting it might damage that... but if that is how it is designed, then those canät be harmed like that16:03
DocScrutinizer"connect with a cable of MIN 10A power rating" doesn't mean "find the thinnest cable that just barely can handle 10A"16:04
DocScrutinizer"short with a resistance of MAX 200R" doesn't mean find a resistor as close to 200R as possible to short this16:05
deramyes, that is true16:05
DocScrutinizerfor the cable, how think may it get to make you think "duh, it's too strong, it might break the device that needs a MIN 10A rated cable"?16:09
DocScrutinizerlikewise for the resisance of the short: how low may you go when it says "200R MAX"? of course as low as you can16:10
DocScrutinizerthink of a tunnel with a sign "2,2m max headroom"16:11
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DocScrutinizeryou won't want to go as close to 2,2m height as possible with your car, and you don't worry if your Lamborghini maybe is too flat16:13
DocScrutinizerunless there's another sign "not allowed for vehicles less than 110cm high"16:14
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DocScrutinizerTHEN you start calculating and pick the middle between 110cm and 2,2m16:15
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DocScrutinizerjonni: I'm not sure I see this correctly on your pictures over at, but is it true your crappy flex adapter is using BLACK and green for D+/- ?16:34
DocScrutinizerit quite looks like they swapped black and white, I hope they did on other end of adapter as well ;-)16:35
jonniyep, there is no universal standard on those colours :)16:35
DocScrutinizerthere is16:36
jonninot for made in china :)16:36
DocScrutinizereven in USB specs16:36
DocScrutinizerindeed :-D16:36
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jonnias long as its matching on both ends Im happy, I tested that it works16:36
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DocScrutinizera user facing problems with h-e-n usb hostmode finally turned out to have bought USB-F-F adapters that swapped VBUS and GND ;-P16:37
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DocScrutinizermade in china16:38
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DocScrutinizercontacted 1:1 from one receptacle to other, like = rather than X16:38
DocScrutinizeramazingly he didn't fry a single device or gadget by using those, it just didn't work (surprise surprise)16:39
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itsnotabigtruckElleo: yeah, when asking people to approve your apps make sure to emphasize that the checkbox at the top should be checked16:56
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itsnotabigtruckand regarding coreutils, i'd like to see somebody make a harmattanized deb that won't break stuff16:57
itsnotabigtruckor something16:58
itsnotabigtruckalso it needs to be incepted16:58
Elleoitsnotabigtruck: yeah, it seems a bit odd that the default for everything is positive apart from the most important one16:58
itsnotabigtruckbecause otherwise things will break if some trusted shell script runs a utility program16:58
Elleounfortunately I don't know who the guy is that didn't tick the checkbox, and so have no way of getting in touch to see if he really had a reason it shouldn't be included or if he just made a mistake :/17:00
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khertanHello All !17:43
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Sivakhertan: Hello!17:43
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befordhi Khertan17:49
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junglizeralright, I've got a new issue, post-reflashing18:10
junglizerI have duplicate shortcuts in the home/app screen18:10
junglizerof the non removable icons, Phone, Web, Messages18:10
junglizerany ideas? I checked /usr/share/applications18:11
junglizerbut no duplicates are listed18:11
jonnibest idea is to look again :)18:12
Khertanor refresh the icon cache18:12
Khertandon't know how :)18:12
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itsnotabigtruckweird :/18:16
beforddid you have that app for the shorcut bar?18:17
befordI read somewhere it duplicated shortcuts18:17
itsnotabigtruck(see end)18:18
itsnotabigtruckwtf, this guy mounts a genius escape, then instead of fleeing town...he hangs out with his girlfriend who helped pull it off18:18
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rigowhat are people using to manage packages except apt-get on the N9 phone?18:32
itsnotabigtruckrigo: pkgmgr works for "user packages"18:32
itsnotabigtruckapt-get install x -> pkgmgr install -p x18:32
itsnotabigtruckdpkg -i x.deb -> pkgmgr install-file -f x.deb18:33
itsnotabigtruckdpkg -r x -> pkgmgr uninstall -p x18:33
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itsnotabigtruckthe benefit of using pkgmgr is that for GUI apps it makes the uninstall-from-home-screen feature work correctly18:33
rigohey itsnotabigtruck :) I wasn't looking for a commandline tool, rather for something similar to aptitude18:33
itsnotabigtruckalso using it avoids some problems with lockfiles (that pkgmgr actually causes :p)18:33
itsnotabigtruckmeecatalog but it has ads now and it's closed source18:34
itsnotabigtrucki'd suggest just using the command line18:34
* rigo is not religious about open/closed as long as it is non lock-in and standards compliant18:34
itsnotabigtruckthere's still the ad factor18:35
itsnotabigtruckand i've taken a hardline position on ads given how much they've ruined things on other phones18:35
itsnotabigtruckthis ad is quite unobtrusive (it's a very small banner at the bottom of one of the screens) but i still don't like it18:36
rigoand now Apps for Meego gives me login error18:38
itsnotabigtruckyou might have to wait a while before you log in18:38
itsnotabigtrucki think there18:39
itsnotabigtruck*there's some delays in syncing accounts around18:39
rigojust erasing and re-typing my password did help18:42
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teleshoeshey, can someone tell me whether dependencies prevent getting an app on the ovi store?19:11
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: yes19:11
itsnotabigtruckwell, sometimes19:12
itsnotabigtruckdependencies that are in the nokia repos are OK19:12
befordI was going to submit an app that depended on imagemagick19:12
itsnotabigtrucklike python and wireless-tools and libsdl1.219:12
befordfrom nokia repo19:12
teleshoesoh thats cool, these are19:12
itsnotabigtruckdependencies that aren't in the nokia repos aren't ok19:12
itsnotabigtruckalso, y u write ovi apps :p19:12
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itsnotabigtruckwriting something that can be submitted to ovi != writing cool new out-of-the-box stuff19:13
teleshoesoh, its already written, with 50+ users19:13
itsnotabigtrucki get the feeling almost everyone here's only interested in the 1st part19:13
teleshoesi just wanted to reach a wider base19:13
SpeedEvilI keep getting mail from Nokia about wanting to promote my Lumia apps19:14
teleshoes ./ Packages19:15
teleshoesthats ok, right?19:15
teleshoesthats the main nokia repo19:15
teleshoesapt-cache policy has that entry for all my dependencies19:15
teleshoesapt-cache policy xresponse x11-utils python-qmsystem python-qtmobility.multimediakit python-qtmobility.systeminfo python-pyside.qtgui python-pyside.qtcore19:15
teleshoesactually, xresponse? thats in the main download repo? am i holding this thing right?19:16
RST38hSpeed: so do I. funny.19:16
befordlumia apps? traitors!19:16
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: that's not a complete repo line19:16
itsnotabigtruckthere's 3 different built-in repos19:16
teleshoesyea, its whats reported from apt-cache policy19:16
RST38hconsidering that this dumb phone isn't even programmable in any real programminglanguage19:16
itsnotabigtruckno, i meant the earlier part19:16
itsnotabigtruckit looks like you copied that from apt-get update19:16
itsnotabigtruckwhich shows the server not the repo19:16
teleshoesno, i copied it from apt-cache policy19:17
itsnotabigtruckbut yeah, you can depend on stuff in apps and tools19:17
itsnotabigtruckoh ok19:17
teleshoes  Installed: 1.0.7-1maemo2+0m619:17
teleshoes  Candidate: 1.0.7-1maemo2+0m619:17
teleshoes  Version table:19:17
teleshoes     1.0.7-1maemo2+0m6 019:17
teleshoes        500 ./ Packages19:17
teleshoes     1.0.7-1maemo2+0m6 019:17
teleshoes        500 harmattan/sdk/free Packages19:17
teleshoes *** 1.0.7-1maemo2+0m6 019:17
teleshoes        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status19:17
teleshoes     1.0.2-1maemo1+0m6 019:17
teleshoes        500 ./ Packages19:17
teleshoesdoes that look right?19:17
itsnotabigtruckyeah but you should probably take the SDK repo off your phone to avoid any trouble19:18
teleshoesi hate that shit19:18
teleshoesnokia doesnt expect me to develop n9 apps on the n919:18
teleshoesand so the sdk repo is half useless for pr 1.219:18
teleshoesis there a repo setup yet with binary packages?19:19
teleshoesfor devel headers19:19
itsnotabigtruckwell, you really shouldn't, you should use scratchbox...but i mentioned that because you might depend on sdk repo stuff when you shouldn't19:19
itsnotabigtruckand i don't think so :(19:19
teleshoeshow well does scratchbox run on the n9?19:19
itsnotabigtruckit doesn't, you don't put it on the N919:19
teleshoesi, i19:19
teleshoesi know19:20
teleshoesi meant it19:20
teleshoesi like to develop on my phone19:20
itsnotabigtruckwell, why do you insist on it19:20
itsnotabigtruckit's a bad idea19:20
teleshoeshow can you say that?19:20
itsnotabigtrucki mean, i like the idea of being able to19:20
teleshoesits so convenient19:20
itsnotabigtruckbut practically it's kind of stupid19:20
teleshoestiny little computer19:20
teleshoesi do it all the time19:20
itsnotabigtruckwith no keyboard19:20
teleshoesi have a nice one19:20
itsnotabigtruckor you could carry around a laptop and program the proper way19:20
teleshoeslaptops are expensive and heavy19:21
itsnotabigtruckpreferably a thinkpad19:21
teleshoesw520, here19:21
teleshoesthe only computer with a nipple mouse19:21
teleshoesbut i mean, programming on the train while going into the city to see friends19:21
teleshoesim not going to lug my 9lbs machine around19:22
itsnotabigtruckthere's your problem, you bought a 9 lb laptop :p19:22
teleshoesbut im totally cool with a 4oz pocket-friendly keyboard19:22
teleshoesi need a machine like that19:22
teleshoesfor work19:22
teleshoesand i dont wanna buy another to fulfill a level of portability that i already have19:22
itsnotabigtrucki really don't get why people buy big heavy laptops19:22
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itsnotabigtruckthat don't have the portability of a compact laptop nor the performance of a desktop19:23
teleshoesi mean, its not too heavy to take to the park and work every day19:23
teleshoesthey do have MORE performance19:23
itsnotabigtruckmore performance than a suitably specced desktop? er, no19:23
itsnotabigtrucklaptop components are *always* behind the state of the art19:23
teleshoesmore performance than a more portable machine19:23
itsnotabigtruckit's the nature of portability19:23
teleshoesi know19:23
teleshoesi mean, theres the tradeoff between portability and performance19:24
teleshoesi love my sandy bridge 3.2 ghz quadcore processor19:24
teleshoesto pieces19:24
itsnotabigtruckright, but what i'm saying is that the entire point of a laptop is portability, so if you buy something that ends up being tethered down to your desk all the time anyway19:24
itsnotabigtruckyou might as well do it right and get a beefy desktop for the same money19:24
teleshoesoh, i take it places19:24
teleshoeslike the park19:24
teleshoesand the cafe19:24
teleshoesand a friends house to watch movies19:24
teleshoeson the too-large-but-at-least-really-high-dpi-screen19:25
teleshoesits a lovely machine19:25
teleshoesits just not ok for walking around with all day19:25
itsnotabigtruckanyway, of course all that is beside the point in any case19:25
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KhertanThe MeeGo Harmattan client is available only from source at the moment as i ve a refresh bug to fix :
Khertanoups wrong window20:58
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RST38h"A new report from iLounge said that the sixth-generation iPhone will launch this fall with a taller 4-inch screen, metal back, remade dock connector and new aspect ratio" <== Apple to release N950? =)21:01
Khertansomeone know how to package html5 apps for android,  wp7, and iOS that can be deployed easilly ?21:06
RST38hcreate a web site.21:07
Khertan(yeah for harmattan as you can see the client will be native)21:07
KhertanRST38h, hum ...21:07
KhertanRST38h, already done21:07
RST38hstop worrying then21:07
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* RST38h doubts wp7 can handle full html5though21:07
Khertan:) i wan't to package it...21:08
KhertanRST38h, any comment about PhoneGap or MoSync ?21:09
Khertanrah for iOs the sdk require a mac21:13
Khertanand for wp the sdk require windows 721:13
RST38hscrew phonegap etc21:16
RST38hin fact, screw anything that is js based21:16
teleshoeslike the internet21:17
befordand qml21:17
RST38hteleshoes: so, which part of the internet is based on js?21:18
RST38hCare to cite relevant RFCs?21:18
teleshoessorry, i meant the intarwabs21:18
teleshoesnot the Internet21:18
teleshoesim all about protocols for enabling communication between peers21:19
KhertanRST38h, could you do the native devel for all other plateform than Harmattan for me ?21:19
teleshoesin a nice, friendly, distributed atmosphere21:19
teleshoeslike with chocolate waterfalls21:20
teleshoesand fondue for everyone21:20
teleshoesi just hate browsers21:20
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Creteilwell, full flashed the device like it was recommended on TMO :
CreteilNow, the question is : Can I expect to send mail from this device using a mail account from ???21:29
CreteilActually I can receive my mails but cannot send anything ...21:30
CreteilI really thinking this device is a joke ...21:30
itsnotabigtrucklike i said before, the web didn't succeed because of HTML and JS and CSS and whatnot21:35
itsnotabigtruckit succeeded despite them21:35
itsnotabigtruckit takes extreme skill to make high quality web apps that consistently work in the face of those disasters21:36
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itsnotabigtruckjust because people manage to turn out good results with javascript doesn't mean javascript is a good language21:36
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Anssi138it's not all bad because it looks like c21:39
Anssi138but that's maybe the issue actually21:39
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itsnotabigtruckAnssi138: it looks sort of like C but doesn't work like C in the slightest21:43
itsnotabigtruckalso the standard library/DOM APIs/etc. are so awful and fragmented that you *need* a framework library like jquery for web page JS to be remotely usable21:44
itsnotabigtrucki think some of those frameworks have made people forget precisely how terrible JS is, but it becomes pretty obvious once you have to do something unusual21:44
Khertanitsnotabigtruck, i didn't say that html/js is a must ... i just will port what i ve already done for browser to other plateform by despite21:45
Khertani can't buy all plateform i ll like to target21:45
Anssi138itsnotabigtruck: my personal opinion is that is actually "interesting design" choice to combine c syntax and functional style. Causing endless issues. Coffee script style would be nicer syntax for it imho.21:45
itsnotabigtruckwell, JS isn't a functional just has some functional stuff bolted on that doesn't work like anyone would expect21:46
itsnotabigtrucklike the endless surprises related to binding of the this variable in closures21:46
Anssi138well it would have worked better in more functional syntax, it was i was thinking. Something like coffee script does.21:47
teleshoesclosures are like the only cool feature of ecmascript21:49
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tripzerowhy can't the music player open up some tracks?22:13
teleshoesdo they not show up22:14
teleshoesor do you get errors while opening them22:14
tripzerothey don't show up22:14
tripzerohmm... some of these songs are reporting 0bytes22:14
teleshoesor that22:14
teleshoessearch for music and tracker on the forums22:14
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