IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2012-04-30

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aquariusok, now officially going mental; I can't get text to show up when I put a Label in the pagestackWindow.00:24
aquariusmaybe that just loads a Page right over the top?00:24
aquariusya, it does. bah00:25
aquariusso that screws my z-index plan, because labels don't seem to be allowed a background color?00:25
aquariusor maybe they are and I'm missing something?00:26
Elleoaquarius: is this for avoiding a list going over them?00:26
aquariusElleo, yes00:26
Elleowhen I needed to handle that I stuck a label inside a black rectangle00:26
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Elleojust gave the rectangle a width of parent.width and told the label to centerIn the rectangle00:26
Elleohang on, I'll upload an example00:27
Elleoaquarius: <-- taken straight out of jokosher mobile ;)00:27
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aquariusthat works excellently! nice one00:34
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aquariusgrargh, what's the point in giving Labels an elide mode if you have to set the width of the label to a specific number of pixels???00:49
amppawhen would it elide then if there wasn't a max width for the label?00:53
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amppaanyone used the ShareUiInterface? it's possible to set a title and description when sharing a link, but i fail to see any sharing plugin actually using anything else than the link itself01:01
aquariusaha, I was wrong, you don't need aspecific pixel width, I was just stupid. :)01:04
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itsnotabigtrucki HATE co-op games where people don't cooperate01:09
itsnotabigtruckwhich is an awful lot of them01:09
itsnotabigtrucklike where nobody has a mic, nobody uses text chat much, etc.01:10
TronicI can well understand not using text chat but mics would be nice to have, if people only had them and if games supported them properly.01:11
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itsnotabigtruckwell, lots of games have good voice chat support01:13
TronicE.g. in BF3 there is integrated voicecom but it is only along your friends and not connected to the game at all (e.g. members of the same team/squad automatically put in the same voicechat).01:13
itsnotabigtruckthe problem really is that a) few people have mics at all, b) out of those that do, a lot of them have standalone mics and not headsets01:13
TronicMight just as well use Skype instead.01:13
itsnotabigtruckwhich generate tons of background noise01:13
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itsnotabigtruckc) few people have any idea how to set the levels correctly so it's always way too low or way too high01:14
TronicThe el-cheapo headsets that people do have tend to be extremely crap too.01:14
itsnotabigtruckand d) a lot of people think communicating in game is for noobs and use ventrilo/teamspeak with their clan or something instead01:14
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itsnotabigtruckmeh, most headsets are fine as long as the levels are set correctly01:14
itsnotabigtruckeven the cheapo ones01:14
TronicA lot of airflow sounds, broken cables (= noise or silence), not picking up voice properly even if very close to mouth.01:15
itsnotabigtruckbut also often the "mic boost" is on by default, which kicks the levels far too high01:15
itsnotabigtruckso you get terrible clipping01:15
itsnotabigtruckalso, that's v. lame with the bf3 chat01:15
TronicI think that my friends generally have some old 90's headsets from the era of "multimedia computers".01:16
itsnotabigtruckthat's basically like teamspeak then, but worse because it only works with that one game01:16
itsnotabigtrucki've got some $20 logitech thing, works fine01:16
itsnotabigtruckjust had to calibrate the mic level and everything was set01:17
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aquariusElleo, you still around?02:52
Elleoaquarius: yep?02:52
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aquariusI have, I believe, a working U1 files client, if you want to try it02:52
aquariusjust testing it on my own phone02:52
aquariuswhich seems to not be responding to SSH for reasons passing understanding :)02:53
Elleowell send me a copy and I'll see if it breaks SSH on my phone too ;)02:53
aquariuslet me just briefly test it here then I'll push to launchoad02:54
Elleookay, cool02:54
aquariusso ssh is working , it's just really really slow02:55
aquariuscome on, stupid thing!02:55
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aquariusnot that the app works on the actual phone.03:04
* aquarius grumbles.03:05
aquariustalk amongst yourselves, I'll have it sorted shortly.03:05
aquariushow can the ssh connection be this slow? the phone's flamin' well *next* to the wifi router.03:05
aquariushow do I do ssh over usb?03:05
Elleoaquarius: if you use the sdk connector thing I think it'll setup a usb connection for you03:06
Elleonever tried it as the wifi works fine for me03:06
Elleoand you'd probably have to manually do 'ifconfig usb0 192.168.x.x up' on your computer03:07
Elleounless network manager can automagically handle that now03:07
aquariusseems not03:07
aquariusah, the phone's just doing its thing where it pretends to not be able to see the net03:07
ElleoI get a similar problem to that sometimes03:08
aquariuswish I knew why this happens sometimes.03:08
Elleorestarting my router seems to be the only way to get it to start behaving again03:08
Elleobut I only have this problem on my home WPA2-PSK network, never on WEP ones or on the WPA2 MSCHAPv2 network at work03:10
aquariusElleo, so, lp:~sil/+junk/u1fn903:22
aquariuslet me know why it fails for you ;)03:23
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Elleoaquarius: cool, will have a play03:34
aquariusElleo, if it works for you, I shall do my whole pathetic doggy look and ask for packaging help :P03:34
aquariusapparently there is a thing called pyside-assistant which Just Does It All By Magic, but I haven't tried it yet, and I mistrust it already :)03:36
Elleowhen logging in I get an "Error signing in" message in the app and "error parsing JSON:SyntaxError: Unable to parse JSON string SyntaxError: Unable to parse JSON string" printed to the terminal03:37
Elleojust let me check I'm actually remembering my password right ;)03:43
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Elleoaquarius: x.response appears to be empty03:47
Elleox.responseText rather03:47
aquariusworks for me, obviously.03:47
aquariusThis is in the first request? Where it hits
Elleoif I visit the URL in my browser and do basic http a json response with tokens and such fine03:50
aquariusit only gets that far if it got a 200 response... and yet the response body is empty?03:52
aquariushow does that even happen?03:52
aquariusthe failure is in settingsPage, not filesPage, right?03:52
* aquarius scratches head.03:54
aquariusok, don't understand why that would happen.03:54
Elleoit doesn't get a 200 response03:54
Elleox.status is 003:54
Elleoand you check "if (x.status == 200 || x.status == 0) {"03:55
Elleoalthough I have no idea what a status of 0 could indicate03:55
aquariusthat's legacy-ish code03:55
aquariusfrom phonegap03:55
aquariusin a phonegap app, because you're technically in a file:// URL, XHRs return 0 rather than 200.03:55
aquariusthat suggests, though, that you are making the app request but your page is not authorisedto make XHRs to the internet03:56
aquariushow are you running this? on your phone?03:56
aquariusdo you need to give it some sort of permission to access the network or something?03:56
Elleoshouldn't need to03:56
aquariusrunning from the Terminal on the phone gives you way fewer permissions than running from SSH does, as I understand it.03:56
aquarius(if that makes a difference; I don't know how you're running it :))03:57
Elleoall my things do network access without asking for extra permissions03:57
Elleowell I've tried running it as developer and user (via devel-su) over ssh03:57
Elleowill give it a go in a terminal now03:57
aquariusI can't tell you how to fix the problem (since I don't know), but I can be fairly sure that it's a permissions issue from Qt or Meego disallowing JS in my QML from making XHRs to the internet03:58
aquariusthat's a guess, but that's *always* the problem when you get 0 status code and an empty response with phonegap stuff03:59
Elleoaquarius: <-- there's only 4 network related security settings and they don't really apply here04:00
aquariusI don't get why it works on my phone and not on yours, though.04:00
Elleohang on, I'll poke at it with wireshark04:01
aquariusI don't think you'll see any outgoing connection04:04
aquariusI think it's being blocked by Qt permissions, somewhere :(04:04
aquariusI hate this04:04
aquarius is what it's meant to look like :)04:05
Elleointeresting, if I make the request to I get a connection and get data back04:07
Elleoan ssl issue perhaps?04:07
Elleonope, works04:08
Elleoand responds too04:11
Elleothat's strange, if I give it an invalid username it comes back with a 40104:17
aquariuscan you do basic auth to other places?04:17
aquariusya, you're supposed to get a 401 if the data's wrong04:17
Elleoyeah, but its not a 004:17
Elleoso its clearly communicating with it04:17
aquariushe makes a point.04:17
Elleoand if I give my real email but wrong password I get a 004:18
* aquarius scratches head04:18
ElleoI think I broke ubuntu one04:20
Elleoif I do basic auth with grob on my phone I get:04:20
ElleoPiston/0.2.2 (Django 1.3) crash report: Trackeback ... etc.04:20
Elleoso err, congratulations your hobby project has found more work for you to do in your real job? :P04:21
Elleothe final exception in that Traceback is a "KeyError: 'token_name'" by the way04:21
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aquariusyou're getting a traceback from
Elleobut only on my phone04:22
Elleoif I do it via chromium on my laptop it works fine and gives me a json response with credentials04:22
aquariuswith the same URL?04:22
Elleooh hang on, no04:22
aquariushow the hell can that happen?04:22
Elleomy fault04:22
aquariusheh. :)04:22
Elleodidn't quote the url when running it at the terminal04:23
Elleoso the &token_name got read as a new command04:23
aquariuswhich means it doesn't have a token name in it...04:23
aquariusshouldn't get a *traceback*, mind, so that's still a login.u.c bug :)04:23
Elleoyeah, if I do it with the *correct* URL I get a json response as normal04:24
Elleojust not if I do it from within your app :/04:24
aquariusso hitting the very same identical URL from grob works and from my app doesn't. :(04:24
aquariushow are you running my app?04:24
Elleopython u1fn9.py04:25
aquariusthat's what I do, too04:25
aquarius(well, I do python ./, but I can't see how that'd make a difference :))04:25
Elleoif I change the URL to just it fetches the html page with a 200 and prints it out for me (since its still not valid json)04:26
aquariusI wonder if it fails if you just do a totally minimal python app which loads a totally minimal QML file which makes the request.04:26
aquariusIncidentally, what's this "Faster N9" thing (, btw? It seems to work by starving background processes of RAM and giving that RAM to the UI. Is this  agood idea? :)04:26
Elleoso I'm trying to work out what in the URL makes it choke04:27
Elleoiirc the background processes in question are mostly things like the search indexer and such which aren't massively important, I couldn't see any difference with it or without it though04:27
Elleobut I don't really run in to much in the way of speed problems04:28
aquariusfair play, I shall ignore it then :)04:28
Elleoor maybe I'm just too patient :P04:28
aquariusI can't imagine what the deal is with the URL04:28
aquariussince it's a working URL in everything but QML :(04:28
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Elleowell its visiting the URL though04:31
Elleobecause it gives me 401s when I give invalid credentials04:31
aquariusI don't understand that.04:31
aquariusmaybe wireshark is the right approach here, then04:31
Elleonope, that was a silly idea04:33
Elleoso no idea what's going on beyond "STUFF IS TALKING"04:33
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Elleoif I ask for the status while its still processing it returns 50004:40
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Elleo(i.e. while the readyState is 2/3)04:40
ElleoI don't know if that's normal for things that haven't reached full readyness yet though04:40
Elleoaquarius: aha!04:42
aquariusthat sounds like you've made some sort of a breakthrough?04:42
Elleoif I ask for the responseText while its in the processing state after receiving a 500 I get an error report back from login.ubuntu.com04:43
Elleounfortunately the error message is use for anyone who doesn't have access to ubuntu's server logs04:44
aquariushrm, an oops from sso04:44
aquariushow do you fancy filing that as a bug>?04:44
aquariusit is mysterious04:44
aquariussince I can't see why it works from apps that aren't mine and it works from my app on my phone, but not on yours04:45
Elleoyeah :/04:45
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aquariusanyway, it's ten to three, so I'm not thinking about it now, I'm going to sleep :)04:48
Elleoheh, night04:48
aquariusif I have any brainwaves as to why it is, I'll let you know!04:48
aquariusthanks for all the pointers that helped me get this far :)04:48
ElleoI'll console myself with a bowl of ice cream ;)04:48
Elleono worries04:48
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Venemo_N950hey guys11:44
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Venemo_N950I'm looking for some advice11:44
Venemo_N950should I trade my Lumia 800 for an N9 or not? that is the question.11:45
itsnotabigtruckif it's for no cost, of course11:47
itsnotabigtruckoh, and if the N9 is in good condition11:47
Venemo_N950obviously. :)11:47
Venemo_N950I don't know that yet, but I'm not trading the excellent condition Lumia for a crappy N911:48
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, the only question is, what'll I do with the N950 then.11:49
mankeliif you are seriously in doubt, you can always give it to me :-)11:54
mankelior sell11:54
leinirVenemo_N950: Well, then you can dedicate the n950 to what it was originally designed for - development :) And more heavy, potentially dangerous development than what at least i tend to use my main communication device for ;)11:56
Venemo_N950leinir, true :)11:56
Venemo_N950leinir, perhaps I could start experimenting with Nemo on it?11:57
mankelior nitdroid11:57
leinirIndeed :)11:57
Venemo_N950nitdroid? what for?11:57
mankeliwell why you would start experimenting with nemo?11:59
Venemo_N950mer and nemo are a lot more interesting than android11:59
Venemo_N950if I wanted android, I'd get some android device, not an N9.12:00
mankelitrue, and meanwhile it would be still fun to test it12:01
Venemo_N950maybe, but I don't think I'd be that bored :P12:01
acpishame its not possible to flash meego onto lumia.. same hw isnt it?12:03
Venemo_N950not exactly12:03
Venemo_N950it uses a different soc12:03
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Venemo_N950it has (almost) the same exterior, but different interior12:04
acpiaw :(12:04
mankeliyup, nokia jumped to the qualcomm-bandwagon for now12:04
acpiwould be a nice 'upgrade' when they throw away wp7 ;) </dreaming>12:05
SpeedEvilI wonder about the new intel x86 phones12:05
SpeedEvilAnd openness.12:05
mankeliand if they will ever get wp7/wp8 running on omap, it will be newer than the one in n912:05
SpeedEvil- don't care about the arch of course12:05
itsnotabigtruckyeah, there's basically nothing in common between the n9 and the 800 besides the looks12:06
itsnotabigtruckeven the chassis parts aren't really compatible afaik12:06
Venemo_N950well, I personally don't think there will be an upgrade for the N9(50) any time soon.12:06
acpivery curious what this mystery 306 device is.12:08
acpis40 or meltemi v0.112:08
itsnotabigtruckwith that low of a number, it's probably nothing awesome12:08
acpior did they just pick that because they've used pretty much every other number already :)12:09
Venemo_N950who knows?12:10
itsnotabigtruckthere's a touch version of s40 now, right?12:10
itsnotabigtrucki'm betting on that being what it is12:10
itsnotabigtruckfor one, it has a java disclosure at the end12:11
itsnotabigtruckanyway, i'd suggest forgetting about anything new coming out from nokia anyway...high end nokias are over with the n912:13
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Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, yeah...12:14
Venemo_N950morning Khertan :)12:14
itsnotabigtrucknow they're just trying to hold onto their huge base of brand loyal third world/developing world users, and get the mainstream to switch from their iphones and stuff to lumia12:14
Khertani ve a little question, did you think that Pr1.3 will bring qt4.8 or did we still get 4.7 with minor bug fixes ? (i need to plan something that need a workaround in 4.7)12:14
itsnotabigtruckwell, actually, not sure if they're really aiming at iphone customers12:14
itsnotabigtruckthey're probably aiming at people who haven't yet jumped on board the smartphone train12:15
itsnotabigtruckKhertan: probably not12:15
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, actually both.12:15
Venemo_N950actually, Lumia is a success for them in the US, they just don't understand that the EU doesn't care about WP7 much.12:16
itsnotabigtruckKhertan: don't expect anything of significance in pr1.3 aside from minor tweaks here and there12:16
itsnotabigtruckeven bumping library versions would be much larger than the stuff that's (probably) going into it12:17
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: i didn't expect something importnat :) 4.8 isn't for me something important :)12:17
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Khertanitsnotabigtruck: at least there will be some qt component fixes :)12:17
Venemo_N950actually, after the N9 was done, I didn't understand why they didn't just release a few more Harmattan phones.12:17
itsnotabigtruckbecause elop put on the brakes 100%12:18
acpihm I had an iphone 4 before coming to N912:18
itsnotabigtruckn9 only got released because it was already in motion and it's hard to stop a train12:18
itsnotabigtruckthere's a whole bunch of model numbers assigned that were probably supposed to be various followons to the n900 and n912:18
itsnotabigtruckand of course what ended up being the n95012:19
KhertanNokia 306, no mention about open source softwares :) so just an s40 device :)12:19 has a history of releasing a bunch of redundant models12:19
itsnotabigtruckand poorly supporting most of them12:19
Venemo_N950well, I'd gladly hear the whole story from someone on the inside.12:20
auenf306 is asha?12:20
itsnotabigtruckit's really a lot better to have one or two products in a particular category and do them right12:20
itsnotabigtrucke.g. people remember the top notch nokia models like E71 and N95, but what about the rest of the N and E series12:20
itsnotabigtruckand those are the higher end models12:20
Khertangoogle : meltini nokia : second position of the search a tweet i made .... lol12:21
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, well sure, but if the N9 had a cheap brother, that'd have given Harmattan the motion it needed12:21
itsnotabigtrucka lot of the nokia stuff has pretty inferior design, no firmware updates, limited distribution, etc.12:21
acpie71 was probably the best phone I ever owned, all it needed was a minor update and i would still be using it12:22
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, plus I don't see why they didn't release the N950 commercially at the end.12:22
itsnotabigtruckbtw have you guys tried opptimizer yet12:22
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, nope, what does it do?12:22
auenfgood reading about symbian12:22
itsnotabigtruckfinally a (somewhat user friendly) application for inception12:22
itsnotabigtruckoverclock the omap12:22
Khertanlol battery is already too small on n950 :)12:22
Venemo_N950I don't want to kill it12:23
Khertani ll more try underclock12:23
Venemo_N950btw, are there any differences between N9 and N950 where the N9 is worse?12:23
itsnotabigtrucksome n950 models have a higher res camera, i think12:24
itsnotabigtruckobviously teh keyboard12:24
Venemo_N950apart from screen size and lack of keyboard12:24
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itsnotabigtruckn950 has lcd instead of oled12:24
itsnotabigtruckand is notorious for dead pixels12:24
Venemo_N950yep, I know..12:24
Venemo_N950had mine replaced because of that12:24
Khertandidn't have any :) i 'm lucky12:24
itsnotabigtruckwhoops, got that backwards (this was about n9 is worse, lol)12:25
Khertanbut i ve always network modem problem12:25
* dm8tbr had a blob of black pixels and they magically healed themselves :D12:25
Venemo_N950dm8tbr, awesome!12:25
* Khertan is happy is note takking apps is near ready ! With a sync to
Khertanjust need to design that preferences interface for setting login credentials12:27
itsnotabigtruckKhertan: er, what?12:27
acpiauenf: did you see this one too?
auenftheres even a good article about hildon too12:27
itsnotabigtruckbtw spaces before punctuation aren't the typical convention in english (it's usually a dead giveaway of a frenchman :p)12:27
* auenf kicks google12:27
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: what what ?12:31
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: i m making a note taking apps to take note with markdown preview and a sync feature (tired of waiting for conboy sync :) )12:31
itsnotabigtruckKhertan: like that, lol ^^12:31
itsnotabigtruckand ah ok12:32
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: will works with
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: :)12:32
* Khertan is also tired of waiting Nokia QA ...12:32
trxalso there is this if you havent seen :
trxincomplete and a bit buggy here and there12:34
trxbut for a first version its fine i think :)12:34
itsnotabigtrucktrx: what's the abc in the status bar?12:35
trxit means that the editor is in focus12:35
itsnotabigtruckbtw it's apps.formeego.ORG12:35
trxlet me fix that12:36
trxhm they both work12:36
itsnotabigtruckalso you could link the deb from the afm repo directly like this12:36
itsnotabigtruckalso get a qr code in there, more people need to qr code up their posts12:37
trxi have never used qr codes12:37
trxi'll look into that :)12:37
itsnotabigtruckit's not like it takes some kind of uber paste the url into the site and link the image in your post12:38 actually has a built-in qr code feature12:38
Khertantrx: grrr you will ruin my sell of
trxhm, ok i can do that :)12:39
itsnotabigtruckthen people can point meescan at their computer screen to transfer over the url and download12:39
itsnotabigtruckyeah, that's now 3 editors in afm12:39
trxKhertan i wont, its not in the store12:40
trxi cant pay 1eur to the store so i can upload stuff :)12:40
Khertantrx: was joking even if i hope too be rich :)12:40
trxi know :)12:40
itsnotabigtruckyou're charging $1 for that text editor?12:40
itsnotabigtruckKhertan ^12:40
KhertanKhertan: yep ... in the store12:40
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: it s open source and available in apps.formeego.com12:40
Khertanfor free, even if i'ven't update it in apps.formeego12:41
itsnotabigtruckit's just's awfully spartan for something with a price tag12:41
Khertani m waiting nokia store qa to update it in both store at same time12:41
Khertanspartan ?12:41
Khertanwhat did you mean ?12:41
TermanaKhertan, it means simple12:42
Khertanit s too simple to be paid apps ? maybe, did you try to do text managment in qml and syntax highlighting12:43
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: it s workarround and tricky things not in documentations12:43
itsnotabigtruck> A spartan lifestyle or existence is very simple or strict, with no luxuries12:43
itsnotabigtruckclosest definition i could find12:43
Khertanthx :)12:43
itsnotabigtruckyeah, basically no frills12:43
Khertanthx for the definition12:43
itsnotabigtruckand yeah, there's some complexities12:44
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: maybe but it s clean :) simple to use,12:44
Khertannot to develop12:44
itsnotabigtruckanyway, you're still offering it for free, and there's a lot of much worse offenders in the ovi store12:44
Khertanqml is a such pain to do txt managment12:44
itsnotabigtruckstill, i don't like the idea of price tags on simple utility apps that are more or less universally free on other platforms12:44
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: yeah some selling Need for speed rss feed for 4.5 Euros12:44
itsnotabigtrucklol, yeah12:44
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: i don't like it ... to be honest i didn't think i would sell more than 1012:45
Khertanwas to paid my ovi store account :)12:45
* auenf waits for someone to see who's photo was at the end of the hildon article12:45
trxitsnotabigtruck what exactly should the qr code link to? .deb?12:45
itsnotabigtrucki'm guessing you've moved more then 10 copies?12:45
Khertantrx: yep12:45
itsnotabigtrucktrx: yeah12:45
trxopk, tnx12:45
itsnotabigtruckif you put the URL to the deb into a qr code generator12:46
itsnotabigtruckit'll be gigantic12:46
itsnotabigtruckbetter use a URL shortener like bit.ly12:46
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: 69 (but it s not the same price in all countries, for example it s 0.10$ in korea)12:46 generate the qr code for you :)12:46
itsnotabigtruckyeah but the instructions say to not put the .deb url in as the app url12:47
itsnotabigtruckand that defeats the point of the qr code12:47
rzrhi guys12:47
Khertantrx: did you write it in qml ? or use custom drawing qdeclarativeitem ?12:47
Khertanrzr: the third text editor developper :)12:47
rzrKhertan, have u tried nescesitas ?12:47
Khertanmorning rzr :)12:48
Khertannescesitas ? what's that ?12:48
rzri wanted to evaluate that port12:48
Khertannope ... haven't any android phone12:48
rzrbut i donno if it worthable ...12:48
trxKhertan custom QDeclarativeItem12:48
Venemo_N950auenf, interesting article12:48
rzrI tested on nitdroid12:49
Khertantrx: you haven't any problem with text suggestion ?12:49
trxoh i did very much :)12:49
Khertanswype keyboard, vkd12:49
trxtroubles with all of that12:50
rzrtrx, is your editor instalable usign a4m ?12:50
trxrzr yes12:50
rzrit failed last time i tried12:50
trxbut i managed to fix them all12:50
trxrzr where did you try, apps for meego?12:50
trxthats weird12:52
trxdid you get any error "explanation" ?12:52
rzrcant install .. or something like that12:54
Khertanwill try it :)12:54
rzrwill do too12:54
trxill try to reinstall and see12:55
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: more worse on ovi i notice some apps was free before and is now paid apps ...12:56
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itsnotabigtruckKhertan: yeah, seems like a fairly common strategy to make an app free for a while to build up users then hike the price12:57
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: yeah and i like flashing update ... grrr12:57
itsnotabigtruckeh, you can probably pirate it from somewhere :p though i've found astonishingly few paid apps that are worth purchasing12:58
itsnotabigtruckor pirating, for that matter12:59
Khertantrx: installed ...12:59
itsnotabigtruckbut i'm also rather picky about ui design and whatnot as a few people here are well aware12:59
Khertantrx: it s me or scrolling is pretty slow ?13:00
Khertantrx: did you use opengl rendering ?13:01
Khertantrx: can't close menu by clicking outside if you clic on the text13:01
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itsnotabigtrucksomebody ported tux racer13:02
Khertanpfff i ve try to use the designer in qt13:09
Khertanunderstand nothing13:09
Khertandoes it s works with qt components ?13:09
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trxrzr i have installed it again, it went without problems13:11
rzrso i will try it out too13:11
trxok, let me know if it fails13:12
rzrKhertan, well i havent look that deeply but i fear qml will not get a mass adoption for soon...13:12
Khertantrx: install ok here, scrolling look like slow (did you use opengl ?), clicking outside menu didn't works if you click somewhere in the text13:13
Khertantrx: menu file have a strange behavior, when browsing menu look like an other menu is still open in background and take the action13:13
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trxKhertan yeah, i need to improve scrolling, i wrote that myself, about the menu thats a QML bug where touch events aren't propagated as they should be13:14
Khertanrzr: i hope, i hate qml, but it s the only thing working in harmattan13:14
trxi will have to think of something to replace those menus utill they fix that event propagation13:15
Khertantrx: strange i didn't have it13:15
trxdid you enable touch events?13:15
Khertantrx: else ... nice job !13:15
trxKhertan thanks :)13:16
Khertantrx: i didn't enable it, maybe it s default :)13:17
trxif you enable thouch events for the bottom control (this case the editor) qml will send touch events to it even if its out of focus13:17
rzrha i see you have sone odd behaviour on focus too13:17
trxand if its out of focus it will get focus once you touch the menu13:17
trxi had to create custom touchareas inside menu items so it would even respond to clicks...13:18
rzrbtw should we continue to maintains 2 or 3 opensource text editors ?13:18
trxwell, i was planning to add more features and fix those bugs anyway13:19
rzri will focus mine on portabilty13:20
rzrplan to support lighthouse13:20
rzrit would be good to split the market :)13:20
trxhm, whats lighthouse?13:21
* Khertan i ll focus on KhtNotes a note taking apps with sync
trxnice, then we all are doing something usefull :)13:22
rzrtrx, odd platform like ios etc13:24
trxoh that13:24
rzrnot very useful for me13:25
rzrbut this is just to test how qt is portable...13:25
rzrso far it's pretty limited :(13:25
trxyeah :/13:26
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Khertanof course if you chose a limited os, framework will be limited :)13:27
rzrwell java failed on those plaform , why qt should succed ?13:29
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Khertanqml : modify ... launch ... test ... modify ... launch ... test ... modify ... launch ... test ... modify ... launch ... test ... modify ... launch ... test ... modify ... launch ... test ...13:34
Khertanwhat a non productive process13:34
rzryou can insert revert into search step :)13:35
Khertanand simulator bug13:36
Khertanrelaunch relaunch relaunch13:36
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radiofreeyou could write unit/functional tests for your QML and run those you know13:50
radiofreeof course, that would only be for testing the logic and behaviour, I suppose if you needed to eyeball design you'd need to do it that way13:51
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Sivatrx: Is this editor just for N950? i m not getting the VKB..14:49
trxSiva press the "pencil" on the toolbar14:49
Sivatrx: oh didn't expect that :) btw one more thing that I saw was whenever i pan the context menu.. app page moves on to file browsing view..14:50
trxi am working on improving n9 user experience for the next version.. suggestions for features are welcome14:50
trxSiva i'll look into that thanks14:51
Sivatrench: specifically.. when u have the file menu opened.. try panning it up and down.. u can reproduce it that way..14:51
trxyeah i just noticed that14:52
Sivaoops.. trx: ^^14:52
trxthis is a first release so i expected bugs, they will all be fixed in the next release in a week or so14:53
Sivatrx: no problem.. I also got a GTK style window giving a Access violation error..14:53
trxyeah, thats related to menu problems14:55
fluxnew dev tools update coming to device, any idea on changes?15:04
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Khertanflux: probably just an other fix for inception :)15:07
fluxkhertan, well that's what I'm afraid of ;)15:08
Khertanaegis-loader: Failed loading policy for 'fennec::/opt/fennec/lib/fennec-12.0/fennec' aegis-loader: Failed loading policy for 'fennec::/opt/fennec/lib/fennec-12.0/plugin-container'15:08
Khertanand prerm failed15:09
Khertannice QA Ovi ... month to validate things ... i can understand why now ...15:09
Elleoeven when stuff does pass the QA it seems to sit in limbo for weeks before being published :/15:18
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paphone shipped.. hope it get back fixed soon, so i can finish what i started :)15:32
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KhertanElleo: there content qa (description, image, link, ...) and file ... which aren't done at same time ... nice when you add new feature and that users don't have yet the new version, but see the new description ...15:38
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djszapipawky: pawky|2 ping..15:53
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Khertandid you think it s a good idea to put a busyindicator in ToolBar ?16:11
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SivaKhertan: depends on how much space you have left in the main screen.. and ur UI..16:27
djszapiwhy does every indian use "u" instead of "you" ? =]16:29
Sivadjszapi: same reason u use lol instead of laugh-out-loud :P16:31
djszapiI dislike sentences like "r u there??"16:32
djszapithere must be some traditional indian resong behind because I see this usage most of there from such people.16:34
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faenildjszapi, chat slang...nothing wrong with it :P16:37
Sivadjszapi: Hmm.. lets see.. During  ancient days, when people still used magic carpets, Indians used single characters for words and this got revived recently :D16:40
Sivadjszapi: traditional enuf ? ;)16:40
djszapiSiva: y16:41
djszapifaenil: it is not chat slang at all...same things happen on mailing lists from Indians...16:41
SpeedEvilIndians do not learn english while speaking english.16:43
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SpeedEvilThey learn english based on their own language.16:44
SpeedEvilThis means you get all sorts of wierd expressions coming through.16:44
SpeedEvilThen there is the fact that british english and indian english differ.16:44
Sivadjszapi: it *is* chat slang. Just that you are not familiar with it bro.16:44
faenilI don't see it associated to indians at all..16:44
faenilI started using it because it's what I read on all chats while gaming16:45
faenilyou have to be shrot16:45
djszapiSiva: again, check out the mailing lists.16:45
faeniltype as fast as possible16:45
faenilthere's no need to use "are you there"16:45
faenilif you can write the same in half the words16:45
faenilor less16:45
djszapiyou do not need, and I do not need to reply either.16:45
djszapiyou save yourself few milliseconds or seconds, but in change, you cause reading issues for others.16:46
Sivafaenil: djszapi doesn't like it and he has seen only Indians use it ;) period.16:46
radiofreeU and You is pretty colloquial... I can imagine anywhere where english is an official/majority language people will use it16:46
faenilSiva, exactly, period :)16:46
radiofreewhereas if you learn english you're probably never going to use it (it's bad...)16:46
djszapiSiva: huh ? Never said only Indians.16:46
radiofreeand then on mailing lists, it totally depends on how you want to come across...16:46
* DocScrutinizer checks chanlog to maybe find a reason to use banhammer on racist posts16:47
Khertandjszapi: i'm not indian and use u everywhere too16:48
djszapiKhertan: have you read my last post ?16:48
Khertanwas reading16:48
Khertanjust hot react :)16:48
fralsso i tried to get xbmc running on my n95016:49
SivaKhertan: you still want to know if busyIndicator in a Toolbar is a good idea? :)16:49
fralswhich almost worked.. except all the shaders refuse to compile16:49
KhertanSiva: it fact it s not a good ux design16:49
fralsso i end up with a black screen only, which kinda sucks for a media player :/16:49
KhertanSiva: it s didn't let think the user that he can stop the process16:49
KhertanSiva: i ll do the same as the defautl email apps16:50
fralsso, do i need any special opengles magic to make stuff work on harmattan? :/16:50
SivaKhertan: yes it's not as such.. but for functions such as a syncing of a list or a quick refresh u could get away with that..16:50
Khertanit s a sync feature that depends on network connection, so will not be so quick16:51
Khertani ll do it with start/stop button and see it after ...16:52
SivaKhertan: I see but then when u are actually busy but not showing the busy indicator, there should be some text messages indicating the sync (ie,. Mail app)..16:52
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KhertanSiva: yeah i ll anyway put a small busy indicator on screen in the header16:52
Khertannot just in the toolbar16:52
Sivaworks! ;)16:53
infobotsomebody said update was
DocScrutinizer~literal update16:57
infobot"#harmattan update" is ""16:57
KhertanSiva: thx16:58
SivaKhertan: yw17:01
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KhertanOh my god !!! Lose 1 hour to try to understand where i put that bug in my python code17:31
Khertanand it s an other qml problem17:31
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Khertana textfield with echoMode set to TextInput.password call the property set with a null object after getting his value !17:32
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SivaHyvää vappua! Happy MayDay all..17:33
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befordits still april here, insensitive :p17:38
fralswhat me meant was happy walpurgis ;)17:38
junglizerSiva: thank you, but still April for me here.17:39
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Sivajunglizer: its April for me too.. but party starts now in Helsinki :) just wished in advance!17:41
junglizerSiva: excellent. Though I did have to look up Walpurgis, though I do know what May Day is17:42
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junglizeralright, my N9 appears to be rather messed up. Is there a good up-to-date guide that someone can direct me towards reflashing it to stock?18:00
befordyes, itsnotabigtruck's guide18:01
junglizerokay sweet. I have that one bookmarked I believe18:02
junglizerthank you18:03
befordi've just reflashed mine yesterday after failing to read the nitdroid install guide :P18:03
junglizereverything go smoothly?18:04
befordyea, no problem with it.18:04
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junglizercool. I was installing an update to firefox yesterday, and it started freaking out18:05
junglizericons on the home screen disappearing/reappearing, shuffling around18:05
junglizerI killed everything running and attempted to restart it18:06
junglizernow it just shows NOKIA at the splash screen and sits there18:06
befordheh, just flashing main will work I think, you still have your data but the apps will have to be reinstalled though18:07
junglizergood, that doesn't sound too bad18:08
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* junglizer reads through guide18:11
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Elleoaquarius: <-- got some feedback on our problem18:27
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aquariusaha, maybe we're doing base64 wrong18:27
Elleoaquarius: also, fun fact involving the error id which was "2312carambolaubuntu102"; my parents briefly considered calling me Carambola :|18:27
aquariusspecifically, maybe your username/password encodes wrongly with the base64 lib I'm using18:28
Elleooh no, I see what's going on18:28
aquariuscan you try generating the auth header for your u/p with the code I've used, and with Some Other Base64 Code, perhaps?18:28
Elleothis whole "I'm going to write an ubuntu one app for the n9" thing has been an elaborate phishing scheme to get me to tell you my password.18:29
* aquarius laughs18:29
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Elleosure, I'll give it a try when I get home; my phone battery's just died18:29
aquariusI am not even close to that interested in your password. :)18:29
Elleobut think of all the wonderous things you could gain access to with it18:30
Elleoon my ubuntu one account alone you'd get a half finish novel and an even halfer finished thesis ;)18:30
ElleoI might try writing a half finnish novel at some point18:30
aquariusthat might explain why it works for you in other things, and also for me -- imagine that there's a bug in the base64 lib I'm using which encodes things wrongly for 16-char passwords or passwords with unicode chars in or something. That'd explain it perfectly, 'cos the other apps you used, you didn't use the auth header generated by my code: you had those apps generate the auth header insead18:31
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aquariushalf finished novel, eh?18:31
aquariusI've got one of those ;)18:31
Venemoso, is there a flashing tool for the N9?18:31
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Elleoyeah, I'll see what your base64 thing spits out and compare it to what python's b64encode does18:32
Elleosee if I can track down the precise cause18:32
x29a.flash venemo18:40
x29a~flash venemo18:40
* infobot starts a firmware update on venemo, then pulls the plug halfway through18:40
x29a~flasher venemo18:41
x29aah whatever18:41
itsnotabigtruckwhat i'm astonished about is that they find enough high-money-low-class people to sell those ridiculous phones to in order to turn a profit18:44
itsnotabigtruckthough obviously not enough of a profit for nokia to hold on to it18:44
SpeedEvilThere is actually a niche for that18:47
SpeedEvilStuff like Siri - but using actual humans18:48
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itsnotabigtruckSpeedEvil: presumably if you've got the money for those phones, you don't need the bundled concierge gimmick18:48
itsnotabigtruckit's more catering to new money in china, russia, india, and the middle east, where it's all about showing off your cashflow18:49
itsnotabigtruckwhich afaik are by far the largest sales volume for vertu18:52
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itsnotabigtruck> ut think of all the wonderous things you could gain access to with it                                                                        │ abinader18:58
itsnotabigtruck15:30:39           Elleo | on my ubuntu one account alone you'd get a half finish novel and an even halfer finished thesis ;)                                            │ acidjunkie18:58
itsnotabigtruck15:30:45           Elleo | finished*                                                                                                                                     │ acpi18:58
itsnotabigtruck15:30:55           Elleo | I might try writing a half finnish novel at some point                                                                                        │ aep18:58
itsnotabigtruckok...i thought i'd copied something but i didn't18:59
itsnotabigtruck> The Arabic-speaking concierge service is the company's latest move to stay competitive. Vertu, which has more than 120 branded stores in 70 countries, is also adding concierge services in Italian, German, Mandarin and French. This service is already available in Russian, Cantonese, Japanese and English.18:59
itsnotabigtruckok, so add hong kong to the list18:59
itsnotabigtruckalso, i really need to stop randomly selecting stuff and setting myself up for pasting it accidentally later :p19:02
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Venemox29a, beford: awesome, thx19:17
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trenchSiva: ?19:28
Elleoaquarius: your base64 lib misses out an '='s from the end of the message19:30
Elleoaquarius: glancing at the source =s is missing from the encode table19:34
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Elleoalthough simply adding it doesn't help, and I haven't looked at it enough to see what other modifications would be needed19:35
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itsnotabigtrucktrx: fyi, i think there's a standard open dialog you might be able to use19:36
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure how to use it or what the limitations are19:36
Elleoah, =s is used for padding with base6419:38
trxitsnotabigtruck i couldn't find any when i was writing that part few months ago, someone told me there isn't any.. i will look arround again and replace mine if i find it, thanks!19:42
Elleoaquarius: got it working \o/19:42
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aquariusElleo, yay!19:48
aquariusso that base64 lib is wrong, I take it :)19:48
aquariusElleo, if you have a patch to it, I'll happily take the patch :P19:49
Elleoaquarius: just pull from lp:~michael-sheldon/+junk/u1fn919:49
ElleoI could really do with some sleep now though, so I'll see about packaging in the morning19:50
itsnotabigtrucktrx: #include <MSaveAsDialog>19:51
aquariusElleo, coolio19:51
itsnotabigtruckbuild dependency is libsaveas-dev19:51
itsnotabigtrucknot sure if that's what you want though19:51
itsnotabigtruckit's also not an open dialog19:51
aquariusElleo, I tried using pyside-assistant to help do the packaging, but... it confuses me, specifically because it puts all my files in the .orig.tar.gz but the deb it builds has nothing in it but the copyright file :)19:52
trxitsnotabigtruck i can look at the source and reuse the UI or model it after that one19:52
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Elleoaquarius: iirc pyside-assistant doesn't comply with the ovi store requirements too19:52
Elleoor that's the impression I got from some discussions going on around it19:52
trxitsnotabigtruck it will be usefull anyways :)19:52
aquariusI am entirely and completely happy for you to generate the packaging stuff and tell me how to use it and for me to just merge that in ;)19:52
Elleosure thing19:53
Elleoonce its setup all you should need to do in the future is run "dch -i" to make a new version entry in the changelog then "dpkg-build -rfakeroot" to build the package and you're done19:53
itsnotabigtruckdamn, i'm finding nothing like an inverse of that MSaveAsDialog19:59
itsnotabigtruckmaybe one of the nokia people knows19:59
itsnotabigtruckalso, it seems to be closed source19:59
itsnotabigtruckalso going by the google results, it doesn't look like many people have tried MSaveAsDialog20:00
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itsnotabigtruckhowever going by apt-cache rdepends libsaveas, lots of nokia stuff uses it20:01
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itsnotabigtruckok, it looks like libsaveas presents the dialog you see if you go into the gallery20:02
itsnotabigtruckpull up the menu and pick save as20:02
itsnotabigtruckit's pretty low key20:02
itsnotabigtruckit also doesn't let you set the directory at all20:02
itsnotabigtruckso...scratch that20:03
itsnotabigtrucklooks like a high quality file dialog ui needs to be implemented20:03
trxi will have to improve mine (a lot)20:05
itsnotabigtruckit would be cool to split a really solid open/save dialog out into a library so this wheel doesn't need to keep being reinvented20:06
itsnotabigtruckbut...they really should have supplied this out of the box, wtf20:06
itsnotabigtruckthat's a pretty basic gui library thing20:06
trxi was very surprised to see that it was missing20:06
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aquariusisn't the argument rather that you're not supposed to *need* open and save dialogs?20:09
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itsnotabigtruckyeah but you do20:10
trxif it is, i dont like it20:10
aquariuspossibly you do for certain ways of working (although I'm not convinced, myself), but I think that's the reasoning for not providing one :)20:11
itsnotabigtruckharmattan is a file based OS20:12
trxevery framework provides one afaik.. they could have made a rule to limit the use or something20:12
itsnotabigtruckit needs a file browser20:12
itsnotabigtruckpresumably the lack thereof is yeah, motivated by some UX goal to cripple everything to the lowest common denominator because some people can't handle the idea of a file20:13
* aquarius grins20:13
aquariusthis is exactly the philosophical discussion we were having yesterday ;)20:13
trxwell, what ever the reason is, this way they will get 20+ diffrent open dialogs instead of having a common one20:15
trxi'm off to camping, bye20:18
itsnotabigtruckwell anyway, maybe somebody who needs a save box (but not an open box) will find out about libsaveas now :p20:20
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victorhugocalderHi, any news about features in PR 1.3?21:09
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itsnotabigtruckvictorhugocalder: there are none21:14
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NecrosporusThere's trusted boot in N9, so how do people reflash the kernel into openmode?22:25
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, aegis-no-thanks is, or
infobot:), GeneralAntilles22:26
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itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: well, that's what open mode is22:29
itsnotabigtruckif the bootloader decides that the boot can't be trusted, it enters open mode22:29
itsnotabigtruckuntil you reflash the stock firmware and retrust the system22:29
NecrosporusWhat is open mode?22:30
NecrosporusI know it's something to disable aegis22:30
itsnotabigtruckopen mode isn't a particular kernel, but the bootloader mode that allows running custom kernels22:30
ZogG_laptopuse inception instead =P22:30
infobot<a href="">BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH</a>, or how you own your phone (see #inception):
itsnotabigtruckyeah, unless you have a specific need for a custom kernel i'd recommend inception22:31
itsnotabigtrucksimilar results, much less fuss22:31
itsnotabigtruckof course i'm not unbiased ;)22:31
itsnotabigtruckopen mode is good to have for things like nitdroid that require a customized kernel22:31
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: you saying like you developed it... oh you actually did =P22:32
NecrosporusZogG_laptop, the url mentions itsnotabigtruck's name22:32
itsnotabigtruckthat's what he's saying, it's my project :p22:33
ZogG_laptopNecrosporus: i know, it was joke22:33
NecrosporusThe first URL show only a flash something (I do not have the plugin) and that's all22:34
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i know inception can be bad weapon, did you incept elop that meego too awesome and he got frighten of it and switched to WP?22:34
NecrosporusI'm not going to switch on WP, only onto android maybe22:35
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: the first one is a joke :|22:35
NecrosporusAnd specifically, Replicant22:35
NecrosporusDoes N9 support Replicant (Android freed of all the proprietary software including google stuff)?22:36
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NecrosporusHow do I a backup of the stock system?22:42
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NecrosporusIs it possible in usual mode without inception and other stuff?22:42
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gabriel9any good news?23:34
befordabout what23:34
befordI don't have to work tomorrow, its good for me23:35
gabriel9well i have to work tomorow23:35
gabriel9extra project and deadline23:35
gabriel9did you heard that Vivaldi will have 1GB of RAM23:36
gabriel9now i concider to buy it23:36
befordwho is vivaldi23:36
gabriel9not who, it's what :)23:37
befordKDe tablet :| I thought it was spar23:37
befordits the same?23:37
gabriel9well they said that it will get 1Gb of RAM23:37
befordoh yea I see, thtas nice23:37
gabriel9for the rest it is the same23:37
itsnotabigtruck1 Gb...i hope not :p23:37
befordram is cheap anyway23:37
itsnotabigtruckthat's 128 MB23:37
befordthe should put 16gb23:37
gabriel9maybe, well it is better then 51223:38
itsnotabigtrucki wonder what a gb is23:38
itsnotabigtruckbut an mb is a millibit, lol23:38
beford1024 MB should be enough for everyone!23:39
gabriel9for reading books23:40
gabriel9and video playback23:40
gabriel9also some basic coding23:40
itsnotabigtruckone million pb (petabits)23:40
gabriel9i plan to go to school23:41
gabriel9how much does it cost in your country?23:42
itsnotabigtruckuni/college is damned expensive in the US :/23:42
gabriel9yea i heard23:42
itsnotabigtruckit cares from a few thousand a term to tens of thousands23:42
itsnotabigtruck*it ranges   i'm rather tired right now23:43
gabriel9and i'm wining about 2k €23:43
gabriel9for a year23:43
itsnotabigtruckyeah, that's super cheap23:43
itsnotabigtruckgovernment subsidized i assume23:43
gabriel9we are poor23:43
itsnotabigtruckis that for a major university, or what's called a "community college" over here23:43
gabriel9Bosnia And Hercegovina23:43
befordwhat country?23:44
gabriel9no private23:44
gabriel9comunity are mostly free23:44
gabriel9or 200€23:44
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befordoh, well I pay like mm 300 usd/ semester in my College, its a public one, best of the country =)23:44
gabriel9but there is no CS on comunity23:44
gabriel9education is to expensive in US23:45
gabriel9you need to get a credit for it23:46
itsnotabigtruckyeah, unless you have well off parents it usually involves going into significant student loan debt23:46
itsnotabigtruckthe system is a bit of a problem23:46
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gabriel9damn that politics23:47
itsnotabigtruckit's not as bad as it probably sounds, but tuition is definitely getting out of control23:47
itsnotabigtruckthat isn't just a US thing though23:47
itsnotabigtruckin the UK for example they raised the tuition cap to levels comparable to US tuition23:47
itsnotabigtruckwhich of course the major universities are going to raise their tuition up to23:47
itsnotabigtruckand with the economic problems in the EU it seems like tuition subsidies are going away early on23:48
gabriel9my eng is to bad to ansver all that23:48
gabriel9but i know this23:48
gabriel9where there is monney, quality degrades23:49
itsnotabigtruckwhat do you mean23:53
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