IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2012-04-27

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Robot101is there a way to disable developer mode but leave the terminal installed?02:00
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CreamyG31337i think they're trying to piss off all the developers?04:32
CreamyG31337can i change my phone to indian and buy everything in the store for $5 now?04:33
CreamyG31337sorry, it would be like $2004:34
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rm_you|err, in response to what CreamyG31337 said -- is that even like... legal?05:10
rm_you|i guess in the contract you sign when putting an app on the store, you say they can mess with the price YOU decided to charge for your app? >_>05:11
rm_you|can they just go change the price back?05:11
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CreamyG31337it seems pretty shady05:23
CreamyG31337imagine if you are an indian dev05:23
itsnotabigtruckhow do they determine which country you're in05:25
CreamyG31337firmware i think, like the product code or whatever05:25
itsnotabigtrucki doubt that...not every country has a product code05:25
CreamyG31337not sure on that, just a guess. but i tried proxies and stuff to buy the sims and changing my country and it wouldnt' let me05:25
itsnotabigtruckand most product codes have one of a few firmware images05:26
CreamyG31337maybe if i made a new account via proxy it would work, not sure05:26
CreamyG31337didn't try that05:26
itsnotabigtruckmight be able to sign up for an indian ovi account and buy stuff with my no-foreign-transaction-fee credit card05:26
CreamyG31337yeah because i'm not kidding, $20 will get you 1000 indian rupees05:26
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, i bet they're doing it by IP05:26
itsnotabigtruckrm_you|: you don't get to set the price exactly, you pick a price tier05:27
itsnotabigtruckeach tier can be drastically different prices in different countries05:27
itsnotabigtruckthat said, it probably makes sense to lower the prices in low income areas05:27
CreamyG31337the prices were already lowered quite a bit05:28
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon_: why do you say that?05:28
CreamyG31337so like angry birds is 20 cents equivalent. is that a $1 app?05:28
itsnotabigtruck$3 iirc (maybe $2)05:29
CreamyG31337yeah the $1 ones are 5 Rs or 10 cents USD05:30
itsnotabigtruckwow, heh05:31
CreamyG31337and its trivial to get an indian proxy assuming there are some tor routers set up in india05:31
itsnotabigtruckis the indian rupee a fully convertible currency05:31
itsnotabigtruckbecause the currencies of a lot of developing countries aren't05:33
itsnotabigtrucklooks like rupees are not fully convertible05:33
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itsnotabigtruckthat might mean it might not be possible to transact in rupees outside of india05:34
CreamyG31337well i'm not sure how nokia handles payments,  like if you need a credit card from that country or what. at the end of that article they complain you can't use debit cards, although operator billing might work05:34
itsnotabigtruckCreamyG31337: it says that credit cards work though05:37
itsnotabigtrucki guess debit cards in india aren't on the credit card networks05:37
CreamyG31337yeah but they might want one from an indian bank05:37
CreamyG31337would have to try it probably to find out05:38
CreamyG31337and i'm not that interested because there is pretty much nothing in the ovi store i want05:38
itsnotabigtruckheh, yeah05:39
itsnotabigtruckalso, in most cases paid apps are inferior, not superior05:40
itsnotabigtruckthe exception is games05:40
CreamyG31337yeah i bought a few of those already05:40
itsnotabigtruckbut there also aren't many (high quality) games to buy05:40
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NecrosporusN9 asks for update09:35
NecrosporusI hope, update won't break possibility to install open-mode kernel, will it?09:35
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itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: what's the update09:43
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denismNecrosporus: please more details?09:49
denismat least no any updates available for my PR1.2 00109:50
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NecrosporusSystem update... 30.2012.0710:11
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Enforceryou are still on PR1.1?10:12
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pagetting ubuntu on vmware player :)11:43
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Khertan_WorkMorning ...11:57
Khertan_WorkSomeone have tryed mosh to connect from pc to n9/n950 ?11:58
Khertan_Worklook like mosh isn't start on device after install11:58
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Khertan_Workoh to start it ?11:58
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mankeliKhertan_Work: it isn't even supposed to work like that12:23
mankelissh connection is made first, which starts the mosh server on device12:24
Khertan_Workmankeli: so how it s supposed to work ?12:24
Khertan_Workah ... so they should not claimed that it s a replacement for ssh :)12:24
mankeliwell it's just that ssh already provides an authetication mechanism and a secure channel for key exchange12:25
fluxperhaps that's their eventual goal.12:25
Khertan_Workanyway, didn't work here :12:25
Khertan_Worksetlocale: No such file or directory Connection to closed. /usr/bin/mosh: Did not find mosh server startup message.12:25
fluxalso it is nice approach in the sense that the administrator doesn't need to install mosh for it to work12:25
petteriKhertan_Work: you can add mosh server path when connectin with mosh user@n912:25
fluxwell, barring firewalls etc..12:26
petteriyou need to have sshd runnig for the initial auth12:26
mankelisounds like that you don't have mosh server even installed on the phone12:26
mankelioops, no. some setlocale problem12:27
Khertan_Workmankeli: it s ... it s installed in /usr/bin/mosh-server12:27
fluxit maybe tries to use your local locale settings on the device and fails it doesn't work?12:28
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flux(the device probably has a small selection of locales available)12:28
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mankeliyeah, it actually might be that your ssh client tries to call some setlocale program, when instead it should start the mosh server12:30
fluxhow would that happen?12:30
mankelimosh startup mechanism works in a way that it uses ssh to connect to server, and it immediately runs the mosh-server, which in turn returns it's UDP port and key. mosh client will then get these from ssh12:33
mankelibut it seems that in here the ssh automatically tries to use setlocale, before starting mosh-server12:34
Khertan_Workstrange as ssh is working12:38
kimjuKhertan_Work, sounds like your rc-files for non-interactive sessions are printing something and the mosh get confused by that (it expects the mosh-server info message as first thing)12:38
fluxmaybe mosh should be more tolerant of such errors12:39
kimjumaybe, but such prints may break other things done over ssh too.12:41
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scoobertronCalendar question - Is it possible to set a custom reminder time for an event?  So I have the choice of a reminder 1 or 2 hours before - could I set it to remind me 90mins before? I am not sure if I am missing an option.13:37
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ajalkanescoobertron: sure you can14:18
ajalkaneOr maybe I misremember14:18
ajalkaneYeah I misremember.14:19
StecchinoDoes anyone here have examples of using libsso-qt?14:28
StecchinoI'm specifically trying to use an oauth2 service. I'm not sure if I need to create an account-ui as well14:29
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Sivadjszapi: I will be there if I am in town bro!14:53
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Elleoaquarius: if your ubuntu one stuff in a public repo anywhere? I wouldn't mind having a hack around when I have some spare minutes15:02
infobotElleo meant: aquarius: is your ubuntu one stuff in a public repo anywhere? I wouldn't mind having a hack around when I have some spare minutes15:02
aquariusElleo, as in my phonegap thingy?15:02
aquariusElleo, what I've been trying to do is get working *without* installing QtSDK from but instead installing things from the Ubuntu repository15:03
aquariusif I can get any phonegap app to work, mine will work :)15:03
Elleoah right, you've already got a working phonegap app then; cool15:03
aquarius(well, I actually do need to add one function to the C++ backend to save binary files, but that's relatively trivial)15:04
Elleomaybe I'll have a poke with the phonegap stuff then and see if I can get it working myself15:04
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ElleoI tend to do all my harmattan dev inside scratchbox rather than using the QtSDK packages15:05
aquariusthe problem is that all the documentation is all "install QtSDK from" and I don't want to, because I already have QtCreator from Ubuntu (and I don't want two versions), and I really, really don't like installing third-party versions of critical system stuff like the Qt libraries :)15:05
Elleoyeah, understandable15:05
aquariusI'm more than happy to do it inside scratchbox if you fancy spending some time talking me through how to do it :)15:05
Elleowell I'll see if it's actually doable in scratchbox first :P15:05
Elleothere's some good documentation on for setting up scratchbox though15:06
aquariusI'd like to be able to compile Phonegap for Qt on Ubuntu too so that I can release the same app in both places15:06
Elleoand getting it do X11 stuff nicely via Xephyr with it too15:06
aquarius(more importantly, I can test the app without having to fire up scratchbox and the n9 emulator!)15:06
Elleoalthough I seem to remember its a bit split up15:06
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aquariusyeah, I set up that stuff -- I can run the n9 emu, and I can run my compiled app in the emu (via xephyr, etc)... but the app isn't being a harmattan app15:07
aquariusit seems to be a non-harmattan qt app; it appears in a chromeless window half over the home screen, rather than being a fullscreen app, if you see what I mean15:07
Elleoin what way do you mean it isn't being a harmattan app? It's using standard QT widgets?15:07
Elleoright, I get you15:07
aquariusand I know so little about this that I don't even know which questions to ask ;)15:07
aquariusthere is a reason I want to build phonegap apps; I *understand* javascript :P15:08
Elleonot sure if just linking against meegotouch will magically fix some of that or not15:08
aquariussee previous point about not knowing anything. :P15:08
ElleoI've tended to do all my harmattan stuff in QML rather than using normal Qt widgets15:08
Elleoso I'll need to do a bit of exploring in that area too15:08
ElleoI'm assuming if you got it running in scratchbox that it will at least build against Qt4 then?15:10
Elleoor did you install Qt5 within scratchbox too?15:10
Elleoah from glancing at their blog it looks like it should build with qt415:11
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aquariusI think I usedqt415:16
aquariusbut I am not sre :)15:16
Elleoaquarius: okay, I have phonegap installed and working; where can I grab your stuff from?15:16
aquariushang on, let me see if I ever pushed the actual phonegap app15:16
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Elleowith the example app I'm not encountering any old style qt widgets or anything, just a fullscreen webkit view with the phonegap stuff inside it15:16
aquariusya, that's all mine is too :)15:16
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aquariusit's not a hybrid15:16
Elleoalthough it sounds from their blog like they recently rewrote a bunch of stuff to use QML, so maybe they fixed things15:17
Elleoaquarius: <-- like this?15:17
aquariusya, that. So that works, then15:18
aquariusasshole. ;-)15:18
aquariusit doesn't work for me :)15:18
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Elleohave you updated the code recently?15:18
aquariuswhich suggests that I am doing something dim and stupid :)15:18
aquariusI think I've poked bits of the code since it was last pushed, but probably nothing which will stop it showing up15:19
aquariusthere might be tweaks to it which make it work better; I am not sure15:19
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aquariusI sort of lost track between trying to compile the phonegap stuff in qt creator and installing scratchboxes and so on :)15:19
ElleoI mean the qt phonegap stuff15:19
aquariusah, right. um15:19
Elleoit sounds like they switched to a QML view at the beginning of March15:19
Elleoso if your checkout was from before then that might be why things don't look so good for you15:20
aquariusMarch 8th, according to the timestamps on the checked out files15:20
aquariusI am more than happy to blow all this away and start again15:20
aquariusat least partially since I've forgotten how to do anything at all with it anyway :)15:20
Elleowell all I did was check out the code, build it and run it15:20
Elleoso I'd guess any differences are due to them fixing things in the intervening time15:21
aquariusya, but you have all the scratchbox magic set up properly too, which I probably do not15:21
aquariusdo you have a few mins now to talk me through "check out the code, build it, and run it" so I can try the same and see if I get the same results?15:22
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Elleoaquarius: sure15:22
aquariusso...tell me what to do ;-)15:22
Elleowell, lets assume your scratchbox setup is okay15:23
pai was wondering: is there any dbus signal going around , when battery pct decreases or increases?15:23
Elleoand try a fresh build of a new version of cordova15:23
Elleothen if stuff still doesn't work we can try fiddling with scratchbox15:23
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Elleoso first I did "git clone"15:23
Elleothen in scratchbox (using an x86 target at the moment), I ran "qmake" from inside the incubator-cordova-qt directory15:24
Elleofollowed by make and make install15:24
Elleowhich puts cordova in /opt/cordova15:24
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aquariusoh, hang on; you're checking this out into a folder that scratchbox can see?15:24
Elleosorry should have explained that15:25
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ElleoI have /scratchbox/users/mike/home/mike/scratchbox/ symlinked to /home/mike/scratchbox on the host15:25
Elleoso I can interact between the two easily15:25
Elleo(obviously replace mike with sil or similar)15:25
aquariusok, how do I start scratchbox?15:25
aquarius(sorry for the remedial class you'r ehaving to give here :))15:26
Elleoheh, no worries15:26
Elleoin a terminal just run "scratchbox"15:26
Elleothat'll stick you inside a scratchbox session15:26
payes, is there any tutorial, better than the nokia provided one?15:26
Elleoin a second terminal we need to setup Xephyr15:26
Elleowhich you can do by running "Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 854x480x16 -dpi 96 -ac +extension Composite &"15:26
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Elleoor possibly "Xephyr :2 -host-cursor -screen 480x854x16 -dpi 96 -ac +extension Composite &" if you have things setup to work in a portrait view like me (by default I think its landscape, I seem to remember having to hack around a bit to get portrait stuff working)15:27
aquariusok. in scratchbox, cd'ed into the checked out incubator-cordova-qt; qmake says "Project MESSAGE: Qt4 build \n Project MESSAGE: Harmattan build" and that's it15:27
aquariusok, xephyr running15:27
Elleoaquarius: that's the expected output15:28
aquariusbah. make fails15:28
Elleoqmake just parses the .pro file and creates some Makefiles based on it15:28
aquariusmain.cpp:36: fatal error: MDeclarativeCache: No such file or directory15:28
Elleookay you're just missing some libraries15:28
aquariusthis is going to mean installing a second copy of the whole world inside scratchbox, isn't it? :)15:29
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Elleolibqt4-declarative-dev is probably what you're after there15:29
Elleoyou should be able to just 'apt-get install libqt4-declarative-dev' directly within the scratchbox environment15:29
aquariuslibqt4-declarative-dev is already the newest version.15:29
Elleoah, no it'll be a meegotouch lib15:30
Elleolibmeegotouch-dev might be all you need15:31
aquariuslibmeegotouch-dev is already the newest version.15:32
Elleoif only scratchbox had apt-file :/15:32
aquariusdarn, "If you get an error about MDeclarativeCache unknow while compiling the qmlapplicationviewer : It seams that some builds depends are missing, add applauncherd-dev and pkg-config to build depends in the debian/control file. "15:35
aquariusbut...have now installed both those (already had pkg-config) and it didn't help. darn.15:36
Elleoyeah I just found it in "applauncherd-dev_0.30.5+rq730927+0m6_all.deb"15:37
Elleoin my /var/apt/cache through a terrible brute force search15:37
Elleonot sure why it's not being found for you still then15:38
Elleotry rerunning qmake15:38
Elleomight be that because it wasn't there it didn't append it to the include list15:38
aquariusyeah, I just thought of that :)15:38
aquariusso that's a cordova-qt bug, amirite? it's a build dependency.15:38
aquariusanyway, make, make install worked15:39
Elleoyeah, at least in as much as qmake should probably have reported that something was missing15:40
aquariusso now I can just run it?15:40
aquariusah, no, I presumably need to run the rest of meego first ;)15:41
Elleoyeah, run "meego-sb-session start" in scratchbox15:41
Elleothat'll start up the graphical stuff in your xephyr session15:42
Elleothen you should have a Cordova icon on your launcher that you can use to start it15:42
aquariusomg I do!15:42
aquariusand it works!15:42
aquariusok that's four zillion times easier than using qt creator.15:42
aquariusbig kiss for Mike, yes indeed15:43
Elleogreat :)15:43
aquariusok, now to try u1 app :)15:44
Elleoyeah, I haven't had much success with that yet15:44
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Elleojust comes up as a blank page for me at the moment15:44
aquariusbiggest problem with xephyr is how to swipe an app away15:44
Elleoaquarius: it does work in xephyr, you just have to be really close to the edge of the window15:44
aquariusyeah, it's just fiddly15:44
Elleocordova seems to be hardwired to load its index.html from /opt/cordova/www/ so I've stuck the u1 stuff in there when testing myself15:45
aquariuscan I make the xephyr window be smaller? My screen isn't really tall enough15:45
aquariusor will that sod up meego 'cos it expects the screen to be the size of the one on the n9?15:45
Elleoerr, my advice would be to give it a go and see what happens :P15:46
* aquarius laughs15:46
Elleoyou might get some of the launcher stuff cut off the bottom15:46
Elleobut I'd expect cordova stuff to get resized properly15:46
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aquariushm. Do I have to restart meego to make it pick up a new version of the www files or something?15:50
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Elleoaquarius: you shouldn't need to15:50
Elleomake sure you close the running version first though15:51
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Elleoits set to single instance mode, so if its left running in the background it'll just bring that back to the top15:51
aquariusah, dammit, swiping down from the top wasn't killing it.15:51
Elleoyeah, don't think that's enabled in the scratchbox version15:51
Elleoiirc that was introduced in PR1.215:51
Elleoor at least enabled by default then, might have been around a bit earlier15:52
aquariusok, I have my app running, yay :)15:52
aquariusfailing to sign in. Doesn't say why, which is likely my fault15:52
aquariusalthough no console, which doesn't help :)15:52
Elleoaquarius: to start stuff at the console just do "meego-run /opt/cordovaqt/bin/cordovaqt"15:53
aquariusooh that *is* useful15:53
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aquariusif it dumps the js console to the terminal, which I don't think it does, but that's not your fault :)15:53
Elleoaquarius: yeah, just trying to write a patch to do that now15:54
ElleoI ended up needing to do that for an app I tried writing to get the amazon cloud reader working (never managed it)15:54
Elleoso it shouldn't be hard to adapt15:54
aquariushrm no web browser15:54
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aquariuswanted to test whether this meego can see the internet15:55
Elleoyou could try pinging something from the terminal15:55
aquariuson the other hand I dno't really want forty terabytes of webkit source, so I can see *why* there isn't one :)15:55
Elleoalthough I seem to remember having problems getting anything using SSL working with webviews in scratchbox15:55
Elleoso I might shift my stuff on to my n950 now and see how well stuff runs there15:56
aquariusok, the scratchbox terminal can see the net (via w3m! no ping :))15:56
Elleoah good15:56
aquariusworried about your SSL issue, mind15:56
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aquariusbut hey ho. I can just add debugging alerts15:56
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aquariusdo you get the front page with the login form pop up?15:57
Elleonope, I just get a blank page15:57
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aquariusaah, yeah15:57
aquariuscordova-qt has all its js in separate files15:58
aquariusElleo, for the contents of the www directory16:00
aquariusI mean, it doesn't connect, yet, but you should at least get the login form :)16:00
Elleoah, cool thanks16:00
Elleoaquarius: still doesn't work in my scratchbox, but runs on my n95016:04
Elleoso there's probably something dodgy about my scratchbox setup in that regard16:04
aquariusdoesn't work in the sense of "blank screen"?16:05
aquariuswhen you say it works on your n950... does it actually *work*? as in, you enter your U1 details and it connects? :)16:05
Elleohaven't tried that yet16:05
Elleoit says signing in briefly, then takes me back to the login16:06
aquariusthat might mean it's failing16:11
aquariusor might mean something else :)16:11
aquariushere in scratchbox I'm getting the damned xhrs failing16:11
aquariustrying to remember whether I had to change something in cordova to make them work16:12
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itsnotabigtruckportal 2 level editor set to be released on the 8th17:10
itsnotabigtruckit's a user-friendly alternative to hammer for building portal maps, plus probably some sort of interface to share/install such maps17:10
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aquariusdo I have to do something special to make my QML-using app pay attention to envars when running in harmattan from scratchbox? I've exported QML_IMPORT_TRACE=1 but I'm not seeing any qml import traces (as per
aquarius(when running the app with meego-run /path/to/app that is)17:16
itsnotabigtruckaquarius: cat meego-run and see what it does17:16
itsnotabigtruckit might be trying to reset the environment or something17:16
itsnotabigtruck(it's a script)17:17
aquariusit doesn't seem to; I tried that :)17:17
aquariusI even tried setting the envar *in* meego-run which still isn't doing it.17:18
aquariusmaybe import tracing just isn't available in the qt I have17:18
Elleoaquarius: I can send you the output from my device if you like, it works there17:20
aquariusElleo, it works on cordova apps?17:20
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Elleoaquarius: yep17:21
aquariusI mean, I worked out which qml file was being included by introducing errors into all of them and seeing where it failed, but it's just weird that stuff like this doesn't work :)17:21
aquariuscannot, for the life of me, work out why XHRs inside a webview are failing :(17:21
Elleoaquarius: there's the import trace from on the device17:23
Elleonot sure it's going to tell you anything helpful though17:24
itsnotabigtruckif aegis-exec or invoker are being used, one of those might be the perp17:25
aquariusahaha! some XHRs do work. So maybe this is teh alluded-to SSL problem.17:25
aquariusand indeed it is! https URLs fail to request.17:26
aquariustra-la, is exactly the problem I'm having.17:28
aquariusso, Elleo, you mentioned you'd already solved this? ;)17:28
Elleowell I did some stuff to ignore ssl errors17:29
Elleobut that involved subclassing QWebPage and setting it on the QWebView17:29
Elleowhich might not be so easy when doing everything in QML17:29
ElleoI'm just poking around at that now17:30
aquariusI can't see how you do that in qml :(17:30
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Elleowell in the worst case I can probably get hold of the webview object in C++ and set a new page there17:30
ElleoI'm just seeing if I can do it in a simpler way first17:30
Elleoyeah, that was pretty much my fallback solution of doing it in C++17:31
aquariusi have to create my own overriding QNetworkAccessManager and tell QML to use it? really?17:31
aquariusam I being punished for something?17:31
Elleoyou don't actually need to do that17:31
Elleosince the sslerrors thing is done as signal17:31
Elleoyou can just get the existing network manager and connect to that signal17:32
aquariusmy C++ is way, way too rubbish to do this17:32
ElleoI'll have a stab and get back to you17:32
aquariusyou can replicate the problem by just trying to load in a qml webview17:33
aquarius(it comes up blank, presumably because it's actually failing)17:36
Elleohmm, actually I think I'll have to do this the way they suggest of actually making a factory17:37
Elleogetting hold of the webview widget is pretty messy17:37
aquariusI assume that by the time the in-QML onLoadFailed handler fires, it's too late?17:39
aquariusyeah, looks like it17:40
aquariusnot that you get passed the qnetworkmanager inside qml anyway17:40
itsnotabigtruckElleo aquarius: don't ignore ssl errors!17:47
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aquariusitsnotabigtruck, for right now I want to ignore them to confirm that that's the problem17:48
itsnotabigtruckalso i thought it handled the validation for you, mostly17:48
aquariusafter that, I can try and work out what to do to actually *solve* it17:48
itsnotabigtruckand alright17:48
itsnotabigtruckjust don't leave that in x_x far too many apps ignore certificate errors17:48
itsnotabigtruckwhich neutralizes the security of ssl17:48
itsnotabigtruckeven major ones like trillian the IM client17:49
aquariushowever, it is incumbent on testing environments to not have spurious ssl errors by not including a bunch of certificates, which they do not do :)17:49 has a perfectly legit cert, and I'm being denied access to it *anyway* by my meego scratchbox env.17:49
aquariusthat's not SSL's fault. :)17:49
itsnotabigtrucki just realized17:50
itsnotabigtrucki don't think the scratchbox setup ships with any trusted certs17:50
aquariusta daah.17:50
aquariusthat's the prob :)17:50
itsnotabigtrucktar up /etc/ssl/certs on your phone and xfer it over and that ought to solve the problem, i thin17:50
aquariusyou reckon?17:50
aquariusnot that I know how to get to folders on my phone17:50
aquariusbut that's an interesting thing to try!17:50
itsnotabigtruckjust SSH in, tar it, and SCP it into scratchbox17:52
Elleoitsnotabigtruck: awesome, that works17:53
Elleoaquarius: I'll upload my certs.tar.gz for you if you like17:54
aquariusam just copying the ones from Ubuntu for now :)17:54
Elleoah okay17:54
itsnotabigtruckthe phone copy solution is better since that way you have the *same* trusted certs17:55
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aquariusitsnotabigtruck, agreed17:57
Elleoaquarius: right, that brings things in scratchbox to be in basically the same situation they are on my phone now17:57
aquariusand that's what I shall do :)17:57
aquariusbut copying from ubuntu is quicker17:57
aquariushowever... doesn't work :(17:57
Elleothose are straight from my phone17:57
* aquarius tries that17:58
aquariusthat seems to work18:00
aquariusso, different certs, or different format, or something :)18:00
aquariushuge success!18:00
aquariusI can now see u1 files!18:01
aquariusyou can't *download* any without my cordova patch, which I shall need to reconstitute18:01
aquariusbut nonetheless, yay-hey-hurray!18:01
aquariusno persistent localStorage, either, but I think I know how to fix that too18:02
aquariusso you have to sign in and get a new token every time18:02
aquariusbut... these are all little problems18:02
aquariusElleo, itsnotabigtruck, you're both superb18:03
aquariusnow it's just grunt work to get everything working :)18:03
aquariusand then I come back here to whinily ask how I actually get the darn thing on the phone, but that's stage 2 ;)18:03
Elleoright, well I'll leave all the remaining hard stuff to you then since its stuff you already know ;)18:03
* aquarius gris18:03
* aquarius grins18:03
Elleofeel free to give me a poke when it comes time to get it packages up too, I'm happy to help with that side of things as well18:04
aquariusI shall do exactly that :)18:07
ElleoI did have a poke at getting the official daemon working when I first got my phone18:07
Elleocan't remember what problems I ran into though18:07
Elleopossible an insane amount of dependencies that also needed packaging that just made me give up in despair or something18:08
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aquariusya. Syncdaemon blithely assumes that it's running on something relatively close to an Ubuntu desktop.18:22
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aquarius(well, it did then)18:22
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aquariusan N9's considerably closer to an Ubuntu desktop than every other phone, but it's still not there18:22
aquariusSince then, syncdaemon has been refactored quite a bit (in order that we could bring U1 file sync to Windows and Mac), so it might be easier to bring up full-on sync-files U1 on harmattan now18:23
aquariusbut I'm happy with the Android/iOS model of "browse the file list and manually select files to download" on my N9 :)18:23
Elleoah right, maybe I'll have another poke at it some time then18:23
Elleoyeah, I'd quite like to have auto-syncing of stuff myself18:24
Elleothat way ubuntu one music downloads can get sent to it instantly and photos can get shoved in my ubuntu one folder on all my systems as they're taken18:24
itsnotabigtruckif you aren't already doing so it might be advisable to start from the debian/ubuntu packaging18:25
Elleoyeah that's what I was doing last time around18:25
itsnotabigtruckright, the dependencies...well, but you'd have the same dependencies whether or not you build through the package, or independently18:26
itsnotabigtruckbut maybe many of those deps can be pared out18:26
ElleoI've probably still got random bits an pieces in my OBS18:26
ElleoI think I just got fed up of going through all of them one by one18:27
Elleoiirc it had a pretty large dependency tree at the time18:27
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aquariusthe webview doesn't support modern enough stuff :(19:09
aquariusno uint8array19:09
aquariuswhich means you can't download binary files19:09
aquariusdarn it.19:09
Elleothat's a shame19:09
aquariusyes. Yes it is.19:09
aquariusbecause I don't want to write something that just hands it off to Qt19:09
itsnotabigtruckwhy not?19:10
aquariusas then it's specifically an N9 app, not a phonegap app which I can also bring to other platforms19:10
Elleowould that be so bad? if it's implemented as a cortardo plugin it would be fairly transparent19:10
itsnotabigtruck(also this crap is why i hate web tech)19:10
itsnotabigtruckthe web got popular despite the immensely crappy technologies powering it, not because of them19:10
itsnotabigtruckpeople have made really cool js-based web apps in spite of js being one of the worst languages ever conceived, next to php19:11
aquariuswe shall have to agree to differ on that.19:11
itsnotabigtruckdoesn't mean it's a good idea to spread web stuff where it isn't needed19:11
aquariusannoyed. Darn it.19:12
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* aquarius checks on actual N919:15
aquariusnope. No Uint8Array, so no binary download support from inside JS.19:16
aquariusIf I'm gonna lock it into N9 only, I might as well write it in qml. grr.19:16
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itsnotabigtrucki thought this was all about porting something that was already written19:17
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, it is already written... but the harmattan webview isn't new enough to support some of the JS it uses.19:17
itsnotabigtruckphonegap port + existing ubuntu1 phonegap thing = ubuntu1 on n919:17
itsnotabigtruckwell, you just said "might as well write it in qml"19:17
itsnotabigtruckthat implies starting over, which defeats the point19:18
itsnotabigtrucki mean, a native client would probably be far better anyway, the only reason to use phonegap is to save work19:18
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, that's the point; if I want U1 support on the N9, then I can't use the existingly-written app19:18
Elleoaquarius: you can use most of the existing app though19:19
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Elleojust replacing whatever the current download handler is with a call to a cortardo plugin19:19
aquariusElleo, yeah, I suppose... and have a "downloadURLToFilesystem(url, filepath)" method19:19
itsnotabigtruckthat's probably better anyway, you could integrate with transfer ui19:20
aquariusthat's just less fun to do, though. I do enough complex dependency-fiddling software engineering stuff in my day job. :)19:20
itsnotabigtrucklike grob does19:20
itsnotabigtruckalso while you're at it, you couldmake this integrate with accounts ui also19:20
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, ya. At that point it's a hard software engineering project which is only beneficial to meego users, so the cost-benefit analysis changes19:21
itsnotabigtruckubuntu1 uses oauth so it's probably not that difficult19:21
aquariusspecifically, I think to myself: do I want to work on this, or do I go down the pub?19:21
itsnotabigtruckand, umm, i thought you said this was an already written phonegap app19:21
aquariusand the pub wins ;-)19:21
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aquariusit is already written -- well, most of it is, anyway19:21
itsnotabigtruckno matter what, all effort put into porting it to n9 benefits n9 users only...that's obvious19:21
itsnotabigtruckyou keep claiming that modifying it to make it n9 compatible renders it incompatible with everything else19:22
itsnotabigtruckwhich makes no sense whatsoeevr19:22
itsnotabigtruckalso, one of the big strengths of the N9 is the integration features like transfers, accounts, sharing, etc.19:22
aquariusagreed entirely. But "the effort put into porting it to n9" was really meant to be "compile phonegap for n9; drop existing phonegap files into www directory; make; <some packaging command>", done. :)19:22
itsnotabigtruckunfortunately all of those are also super badly documented19:22
itsnotabigtruckbut apps are a lot nicer when they use them19:22
aquariusoh, I totally agree that the app would be excellent if it was properly integrated into the N919:23
aquariusbut I don't have the spare time to do a huge amount of that work. My idea was that if I built this that someone else could bring U1 to, say, the Blackberry just by compiling Phonegap-for-Blackberry, if you see what I mean :)19:24
itsnotabigtruckalso, making an oauth account plugin that targets exactly one provider is actually pretty easy19:24
itsnotabigtruckyeah, but we're not talking about (the decrepit platform that is) the blackberry :p19:25
* aquarius laughs19:25
aquariusit's actually got the best browser on the market, believe it or not.19:25
aquariusrest of the platform is Quite Crap, mind :P19:25
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itsnotabigtrucki mean, this shouldn't be about porting x to as many platforms as possible, this should be about bringing an app you like to a cool phone19:25
Anssi138playbook is quite fun, very responsive to use.19:26
Anssi138for that hw ofc.19:26
itsnotabigtruckwell, playbook's os is totally separate from the blackberry os19:26
itsnotabigtruckthey're supposed to be unified soon19:26
itsnotabigtruckit's taking way longer than it was supposed to19:26
aquariusyeah. I suppose the way to go at this stage is to just strip out all the complex download stuff (which requires supernaturally up-to-date webkit anyway) and just call a downloadUrlToFile(url, file) function which the backend is expected to provide :)19:27
itsnotabigtruckspeaking of that, that's probably something to do in a harmattan cssu type thing19:27
itsnotabigtruckupdate webkit, along with the other system libs19:28
aquariusmakes it harder to port other places, and less of a "hey, you want u1 for palmos? just take this and use phonegap!" but at least I'll get u1 for my own personal phone, which ain't nothin'.19:28
itsnotabigtruckcan't you like ifdef it :p19:28
itsnotabigtruckthis isn't about rendering it n9 only, this is about adding extra n9 sauce19:29
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, that's roughly what I plan to do, I think19:29
itsnotabigtruckhmm, you could run your javascript files through cpp19:31
itsnotabigtruck(c preprocessor)19:31
aquariusI could.19:31
aquariusedging perilously close to "this is hard" again, then, though ;)19:31
aquariusah, I'm over the major hurdle now thanks to you guys anyway19:31
aquariusnow's just a Small Matter Of Programming19:31
aquariusspecifically, some JS fiddling and then working out how to do os.makedirs("~/u1/" + path); urllib.urlretrieve(url, "~/u1/" + path + "/" + filename) in C++ :)19:33
Elleobetter make that ~/MyDocs/u1/ ;)19:33
aquariusreally? ah, that's useful info :)19:33
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aquariusmakes handling whole-folder downloads a lot easier, mind; I just throw 20 URLs at the back end rather than one. ;)19:34
Elleoyeah, MyDocs is the big fat formatted partition19:34
aquariusand I can shut down the app without interrupting the downloads, too19:34
aquariusstupid question: I'm aware it's possible to write N9 apps in Python... but does that need users to ssh into their phone and install Python themselves,e tc, etc? Or can I write a Python + QML app and put it in the store or AppsForMeego and have it just work?19:35
Elleoyeah, you can put it in the store19:35
itsnotabigtruckaquarius: just depend on python19:36
itsnotabigtruckhowever there's some other stupidities related to both ovi and afm that could be problematic19:36
Elleowell, python and python-pyside.*19:36
itsnotabigtruckbest to focus on making a good app first19:36
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bef0rdyea, nokia store will ask and download the dependencies19:36
Elleomy statusnet client is python/pyside/qml (and a splash of C++) and is in apps for meego and the ovi store without issues19:37
itsnotabigtruckcheck that out19:37
itsnotabigtruckbut that won't do the download for you...19:37
itsnotabigtrucki wonder how grob implements that stuff19:37
Elleoaquarius: here's an example of a downloader using qt stuff:
itsnotabigtruckas for downloads and uploads,
Elleoaquarius: then you'd just needs a few hooks into transferui when certain signals are triggered to update it19:39
mankeliElleo: there is atleast one python app in store which i know of. it's named "anglegraph"19:40
itsnotabigtruck better docs19:40
aquariusoh, I still have to *do* the transfers myself? the TransferUI is just for showing progress?19:40
aquariusI was hoping I could just say "here, meego, download this url to this filesystem location and update things yourself".19:41
aquariusso my if-the-app-quits-the-downloads-carry-on plan is hard again, then :)19:41
aquariuscould shell out to wget. ;)19:41
itsnotabigtruckfor accounts integration, this is the api you use to retrieve the oauth token19:41
itsnotabigtruckgrob downloads seem to continue if one exits grob...not sure how it actually implements that19:42
itsnotabigtruckpossibly simply by not actually exiting19:42
aquariusyeah, that's the sort of thing I don't want to do -- a bunch of hard work managing my app's lifecycle, etc19:42
itsnotabigtruckon one hand, shipping is better than perfect19:43
aquariussince I would like emails saying "omg you ate all my battery life canonical sux!!!" to not be a part of my regular daily breakfast :)19:43
itsnotabigtruckon the other, having all this integration stuff would be super cool19:43
itsnotabigtruckunfortunately there aren't very many examples of the integration stuff, because few people ever bother doing it19:43
itsnotabigtruckthat's why i'd like to see some apps that have it19:44
itsnotabigtrucknote that if you use signon oauth, i think that'll cause your app to depend on PR1.2 at a minimum19:44
itsnotabigtruckcurrently the ovi baseline is PR1.119:45
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itsnotabigtruckwith signon oauth, signon takes care of all the oauth authentication stuff for you, so you just have to exract the token from signon and use it19:47
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itsnotabigtruckaquarius: ok, just had an idea on how to implement this20:33
itsnotabigtruckso you'd have a pure C++ binary that handles downloads and uploads using qt and transferui20:33
itsnotabigtruckyou spawn that from your phonegap for those20:34
itsnotabigtruckthen you also have a C++ plugin for handling signon identities20:34
itsnotabigtruckin order to get the oauth token20:34
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itsnotabigtruckthen for the account plugin, you might be able to get away with using XML files only20:35
itsnotabigtruckif ubuntu one's oauth login page allows specifying the username in the querystring, that'll make the oauth stuff a lot easier20:35
itsnotabigtruck(like twitter allows)20:35
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itsnotabigtruckalso apparently this was just released20:37
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gavinrharperHello! I am implementing an N9 application in the QtSDK Simulator but am having trouble identifying the best way to hide/restore the application20:39
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RST38hHow do I clear cookies in the web browser?20:48
jonnigavinrharper: dont know what is preferred way, personally I used x events in one of my ovi store application.20:49
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, currently experimenting with python20:50
aquariusalthough the simplest python app doesn't seem to actually load as a harmattan app; it appears as a black windows floating over the top of the home screen :(20:51
aquarius seems to not be right, as far as running in scratchbox goes ;(20:51
gavinrharperjonni: Can you please elaborate?20:52
gavinrharperThis is a proof of concept application so I'm hoping not to register with Nokia20:52
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jonnigavinrharper: google "XIconifyWindow"20:54
itsnotabigtruckaquarius: how would python help with this though20:55
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, it wouldn't, necessarily; I'm just experimenting with python :)20:55
gavinrharperjonni: Thank you20:55
itsnotabigtruckah ok :p20:56
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itsnotabigtruck^ lame20:56
itsnotabigtruckhate it when people only join up for exactly long enough to get a question answered20:57
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Elleoaquarius: yeah, you probably want to look more in to using the qt-components with QML and python for a proper harmattan experience21:15
Elleoaquarius: this has a list of the various elements available to you
aquariusElleo, interesting -- I was looking at
Elleowith various examples interspersed, PageStacks are probably a good place to start21:16
Elleoah yeah, that's a pretty good one too21:16
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Elleo <-- a new way to waste your time ;)21:19
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faenilhi people, how do you get double tap events on mobile with Qt?22:01
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jonnifaenil: if (const QGesture *g = event->gesture(Qt::DoubleTapGesture)) {22:25
faeniljonni, qml ?22:25
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faeniljonni, there seems to be no qml alternative to that22:29
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jonnifaenil: you need to listen for single taps and use timers to see if its near enough to be double22:30
faeniljonni, if only it worked22:31
faeniljonni, I'm doing that ...but it doesn't work, the deltaTime returned seems to be random22:32
jonnifaenil: or just remembered, on qml there is onDoubleClick22:32
faenilprobably due to Android-qt port or dunno what22:32
faeniljonni, that doesn't work22:32
faeniljonni, it's only fired at times22:32
jonnifaenil: it does work, its used by grob for its doubleclick zoom22:32
jonnifaenil: and its also use in qtwebrowser example in sdk.22:33
faeniljonni, it doesn't work on Qt for only gets the doubleClick if I doubleclick on the exact same spot22:33
faenilwhich you know it's not the case on tablet/phones22:34
faeniljonni, doubleclick is for mice, afaik22:34
jonniah I tough that you were asking for harmattan22:34
jonnifor android you most likely need to listen for raw events and make a plugin for that.22:35
faeniljonni, most likely, I hoped there was something made for double tap on QML22:36
faenilnot doubleclick22:37
jonnifaenil: as deltatimes are more accurate in C++ side, you can use this multitouch qml raw plugin as base
jonniwell I dont have any android devices so havent been able to test qt on that one. I've only tested qt multitouch on windows7, meego netbook, harmattan and ubuntu.22:38
faenilyeah I read that article thanks ;)22:42
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