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| jpwhiting | hmm, anyone here know how to get the colors of the theme? | 00:21 |
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| mankeli | http://electrontu.be/harmattan/iperf_2.0.4-5_armel.deb i just compiled iperf for harmattan, if someone wants to test their data connection speed :-) | 01:17 |
| mankeli | basic sb job, so no suprises to devs | 01:18 |
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| rzr | mankeli, did build it months ago : https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=iperf&project=home%3Arzr%3Adebian | 02:13 |
| rzr | iperf_2.0.5-2.1. | 02:13 |
| mankeli | okay, nice :) | 02:14 |
| rzr | are u using fuse ? | 02:14 |
| mankeli | yeah, for sshfs | 02:15 |
| mankeli | in electrontu.be/harmattan/ there's also fuse-utils package which iirc was missing on your repo | 02:17 |
| rzr | i never managed to use sshfs | 02:18 |
| rzr | i will try again | 02:18 |
| mankeli | how so? | 02:18 |
| mankeli | it would be nice if you would add fuse-utils to your repo too, then one could just install it by saying apt-get install sshfs :) | 02:19 |
| rzr | let me check | 02:19 |
| rzr | i think it's there already | 02:19 |
| rzr | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=sshfs-fuse&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan | 02:21 |
| rzr | fuse-utils: Depends: libfuse2 (= 2.8.5maemo5+0m6) but it is not going to be installed | 02:21 |
| rzr | humm | 02:21 |
| rzr | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan/free/f/fuse/ | 02:23 |
| rzr | we should not import that package | 02:23 |
| mankeli | that my fuse-utils is compiled from sources found on pr1.2 dvd | 02:24 |
| mankeli | for some reason nokia has new libfuse2 binary package, and sources for fuse-utils but no binary for that :-p | 02:25 |
| mankeli | and if one wants sshfs on pr1.2, it's either self-compiled fuse-utils and sshfs from your repo, or libfuse2 downgrade - which sounds very scary :D | 02:27 |
| rzr | i have fuse_2.8.6maemo5+0m7 | 02:31 |
| rzr | this is from pr1.2 fw but it looks that it's not on obs | 02:32 |
| mankeli | obs? | 02:33 |
| rzr | http://molly.corsac.net/~corsac/n9/sources-pr1.2/fuse_2.8.6maemo5+0m7.dsc | 02:33 |
| rzr | this source : http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan/free/f/fuse/ | 02:33 |
| rzr | obs = builder | 02:33 |
| mankeli | aah. | 02:34 |
| mankeli | well i don't know anything about obs. sorry | 02:37 |
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| mankeli | i heard something that harmattan-dev is pretty outdated, but at least in scratchbox you can just compile that pr1.2 fuse without problems | 02:38 |
| mankeli | and btw, what's the difference between "harmattan" and "MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard" repos? | 02:41 |
| mankeli | i mean, why not just one? | 02:41 |
| rzr | in my project ? | 02:43 |
| rzr | i need to explain this | 02:43 |
| rzr | 1st one is using nokia setup | 02:43 |
| rzr | 2d one is using extra repos (such as debian imports) | 02:44 |
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| rzr | X-Fade, can you confirm about that ? harmattan-dev is pretty outdated, ? | 02:48 |
| rzr | mankeli, btw pr1.3 will screw it all probally :-) | 02:48 |
| mankeli | so "harmattan" only has nokia stuff in dependencies and that other one has more | 02:51 |
| mankeli | ok | 02:51 |
| mankeli | why do you think so? | 02:52 |
| mankeli | that pr1.3 will screw it all | 02:52 |
| mankeli | and in what way exactly | 02:52 |
| rzr | it will ship updated packages that may conflict with mine built on previous fw | 02:53 |
| DrGrov | PR 1.3? Is there such candy coming out? :) | 02:56 |
| mankeli | rzr: i'm hoping that they would also update their repos with latest packages since pr1.3 is probably the last update :-) | 02:58 |
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| rzr | what makes you think this will be the last one | 02:59 |
| rzr | http://communities-dominate.blogs.com/brands/2012/04/these-steps-or-nokia-is-no-more-the-way-back-to-profits-and-growth.html# | 02:59 |
| rzr | :) | 02:59 |
| Arie | rzr: Nokia is finished | 02:59 |
| rzr | i am hearing this for years now | 03:00 |
| Arie | rzr: after february 11th, it became a reality | 03:02 |
| mankeli | rzr: two things: 1) because they have closed the bug tracker 2) stopped production of n9's 3) already refusing to keep dev repos up to date, which kind of confirms that they don't have resources anymore | 03:02 |
| mankeli | ok actually two, but the third one popped into my mind while i was writing | 03:02 |
| rzr | then we'll buy it once the corpse gets cold | 03:03 |
| Arie | rzr: i don't want nokia | 03:04 |
| Arie | just the source code for harmattan | 03:04 |
| Arie | all of it | 03:04 |
| luke-jr | I'd rather have N900 Maemo source. | 03:05 |
| mankeli | i'm just hoping that they would at least update the repos so that community development could continue as fluently as possible, and maybe also do something to aegis | 03:05 |
| Arie | aegis has becomea non-issue | 03:06 |
| Arie | with inception and open mode | 03:06 |
| Arie | it isn't a problem anymore | 03:06 |
| mankeli | dunno if there's a way to 100% remove aegis without negative side effects | 03:07 |
| Arie | it's possible from what I understand about aegis | 03:07 |
| Arie | just majorly time consuming | 03:07 |
| mankeli | you can get permissions to do stuff with inception, but malf happens a little bit too easily | 03:07 |
| Arie | and it isn't something of a one person job, it's a multi-person task | 03:08 |
| rzr | thx for the fish :) | 03:09 |
| Arie | rzr: i am confused | 03:10 |
| Arie | rzr: are you referrring to me? | 03:12 |
| mankeli | ref-herring | 03:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, you could eradicate aegis, modify programs that were modified to know about aegis | 03:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and modify everything that relies on aegis to get expected permissions | 03:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and make it setuid root instead or something | 03:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the root problem is that everything was built in the presence of aegis | 03:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's not just about aegis, it's about aegis being the underpinning of a large os | 03:14 |
| rzr | http://www.inquisitr.com/221109/nokia-to-launch-vietnam-factory-hire-10000-workers/ | 03:14 |
| rzr | btw | 03:15 |
| rzr | apt-get install sshfs | 03:15 |
| Tronic | Bullshit blog. | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also rzr: that blog post is absolutely terrible writing | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the communities-dominate one that is | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not sure about the 2nd one | 03:15 |
| Arie | rzr: apt-get install sshfs is? | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Contact Tomi T Ahonen for Speaking and Consulting Events < given the quality of his blog, i think not | 03:15 |
| mankeli | itsnotabigtruck: probably removal of aegis, and some sort of aegis "emu" to keep software happy? :) | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw which package supplies the utility for mounting FUSE filesystems as user | 03:16 |
| Tronic | He does have a point on sales boycott but he completely misses the fact that the product in deed sucks. It has received positive reviews from "send us more free stuff" review sites and won one industry award (we can discuss the criteria that those are awarded on). | 03:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that package needs to be made aegis-aware | 03:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: which phone received positive reviews | 03:17 |
| Tronic | Thus, my claim is that his "reasoning" sucks camel's balls and actually Nokia's failure is based on many interlinked factors. | 03:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the N9 seems to have been universally acclaimed...the others not quite so much | 03:17 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: All Nokia devices, most importantly the Lumia, according to that blog. | 03:17 |
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| Tronic | Let me read some more to see how the blogger proposes Nokia to be turned profitable in Q2 already. | 03:18 |
| rzr | working as root : | 03:20 |
| rzr | user@localhost:/ 4128448 1717192 2201544 44% /root/mnt/sshfs | 03:20 |
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| Arie | tomi ahonen talks too much | 03:23 |
| Arie | im tempted to block him on my twitter, but he says N9 and N950 so much | 03:24 |
| Arie | that I'd prefer to read his tweets | 03:24 |
| Arie | he also repeats himself numerous times on the same point throughout the day | 03:24 |
| Arie | I'm sure he's smart but he has a very odd fixation on Nokia | 03:24 |
| Arie | as if he is upset he was passed up for ceo for the compant even though he wasn't in the running | 03:27 |
| DrGrov | Hi | 03:29 |
| DrGrov | Tomi Ahonen? The guy who wrote on his blog about the "burning platform" and rescue plans? | 03:29 |
| Arie | yes | 03:30 |
| DrGrov | And usually is extremely critical about everything and everybody doing Nokia? | 03:30 |
| Arie | yes | 03:30 |
| DrGrov | Hi Arie, I see. Then I know why you would like to unfollow him/block him on Twitter :D | 03:30 |
| Arie | he says N9/N950 so much that I feel bad blocking him | 03:30 |
| DrGrov | Arie: Nah, just block him. I read that "burning platform" text he wrote and that already made me sure that I will not read anything on his blog ever again. | 03:32 |
| DrGrov | It made me depressed | 03:32 |
| Tronic | Huh, that blog is full of invalid "facts" and about a kilometer long. I won't waste more of my time on it, reading the rest. | 03:32 |
| Arie | otherwise, he offers nothing to my twitter except taking up a lot of space | 03:32 |
| Arie | tomi is a smart man | 03:32 |
| Arie | he's just too verbose | 03:33 |
| Arie | remember he doesn't realize that the average person doesn't care about the N9 | 03:33 |
| Tronic | Arie: I do not know how smart Tomi is but that blog certainly suggests otherwise. Also, I think you are badly mistaken on the average person caring about the N9. | 03:34 |
| Arie | Most people don't even know what the N9 is | 03:35 |
| Tronic | The launch was horribly bad but apparently the device still sold more than the heavily marketed flagship Lumia. | 03:35 |
| Tronic | Now, consider Nokia launching "N10". A slightly updated version of the N9 (faster hardware etc). If (a) it was launched globally everywhere, (b) marketed as the new primary platform (i.e. outphase WP/Lumia) and (c) marketed even 10 % of the amount that Lumia has been... | 03:37 |
| Arie | i will be back in a bit to continue this tronic | 03:37 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, not launching in the US and UK was catastrophic, for one | 03:42 |
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| DrGrov | Is there any SSH clients for the N9 ? | 03:46 |
| rzr | yes mosh ! | 03:47 |
| DrGrov | rzr: Thanks for telling me so quickly. Could be a good thing to have some day. | 03:47 |
| rzr | http://mosh.mit.edu/ | 03:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: when you enable developer mode | 03:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it automatically installs both ssh client and server | 03:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you just run it from the terminal | 03:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you don't need mosh, but you might like it, it's like a souped up ssh | 03:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if you just want ssh you probably already have it (and in fact mosh requires it) | 03:50 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, thanks :) SSH is not enabled by default when I have turned off developer mode? | 03:51 |
| rzr | it is IICR | 03:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: don't turn off developer mode | 03:51 |
| rzr | well i am tired | 03:51 |
| rzr | byebye | 03:51 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: No, I will not turn it off. I Just mean that does SSH server and client run when developer mode is turned off? | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: flipping the switch in settings disables the ssh server | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | leaves the ssh client intact but you won't be able to get to it because the terminal icon'sgone | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but flipping the switch in settings doesn't disable developer mode in any way that counts | 03:53 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, the ssh server is disabled when I do not have developer mode enabled? | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you really want to do that, uninstall developer-mode, but without developer mode, what's the point of the N9 | 03:53 |
| DrGrov | That is what you are saying? | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's like a ferrari with no engine | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and yeah | 03:54 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | anyone know what's needed in order to avoid the themedaemon error when running an app as root | 04:00 |
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| Arie | Tronic: are you here? | 04:53 |
| Tronic | The problem with pushing Harmattan as the primary platform is that too much time has been lost with Elop already. For the strategy change, the upcoming shareholder meeting (3 May) needs to remove Elop from the board and from the post of CEO, and we know that this isn't going to happen. | 04:57 |
| Tronic | If done a year ago, N9 would've been a serious statement on the market, quite possibly seriously threatening Samsung and Apple. | 04:58 |
| Arie | They also need to remove the board for making such a bad financial decision | 04:58 |
| Arie | it would have | 04:58 |
| Tronic | Now it is not going to be a revolution anymore - even if a facelift is made - but it could still save Nokia or what's left of it. | 04:58 |
| Tronic | (even long term) | 04:58 |
| Arie | I have seen how the N9 stands out to anyone | 04:58 |
| Tronic | It was published as a dead platform. | 04:59 |
| Tronic | That makes all the difference. | 04:59 |
| Tronic | Same goes for Symbian. The CEO says that it is crap => sales drop dramatically. | 04:59 |
| Arie | yet it is the best selling platform in the world | 05:01 |
| Arie | till the feb 11th announcement | 05:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | best selling != good, or a real option in the long term | 05:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | symbian is crap | 05:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it wasn't crap in its prime | 05:03 |
| Arie | true | 05:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they botched the transition to touch while the rest of the industry moved on | 05:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | s60 5.0+ is an objectively bad OS | 05:03 |
| Arie | it became crap when it became solely nokia | 05:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, it became crap because they tried to ape the competition without actually doing what made the competition better | 05:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the iphone was the first phone that paid any attention at all to aesthetics and touchscreen usability | 05:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | s60 5.0 failed on both counts and the later versions did nothing to fix that | 05:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | harmattan, on the other hand, was a legitimate option | 05:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | keep in mind that a lot of symbian sales were from people who didn't realize they were buying a smartphone | 05:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a significant portion were people buying nokia on brand loyalty and entirely as a status symbol | 05:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. i get the impression that in india for a while it was a thing to buy the most expensive nokia phones possible to prove that you have cash | 05:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that isn't and wasn't sustainable | 05:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it's not really the kind of customerbase you want anyway as your main users | 05:06 |
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| Arie | hi rihanna | 05:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm? | 05:34 |
| Arie | hi rihanna | 05:35 |
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| beford | hi | 05:50 |
| beford | xD | 05:50 |
| Arie | bye rihanna | 05:50 |
| Arie | how bout rihanna guys? can we convince her to use an N9? | 05:50 |
| Arie | what about chris brown? | 05:50 |
| Tronic | Arie, itsnotabigtruck: Symbian was always quite crap. The usability sucked at all times and development for it was horrible until recently. But it was still selling well until Feb 11 and would have sold well much longer, had Elop not failed. | 05:57 |
| Arie | this i agree with | 05:57 |
| Arie | can you replace tomi ahonen on my twitter? | 05:57 |
| Tronic | I said it then, and it still holds: the sane thing to do would have been making MeeGo (Harmattan) the primary platform and N9/N950 the flagship product while Symbian and S40 still sell well, allowing for smooth transition. | 05:59 |
| Tronic | I don't use Twitter but you may add me on Google+ if you wish. | 05:59 |
| Arie | and what about meltemi? | 05:59 |
| Tronic | I write very little on cellphones, though. | 05:59 |
| Arie | I want you to be tomi ahonen's replacement | 05:59 |
| Tronic | I don't think that Linux can work on low end device yet. | 06:00 |
| Tronic | It requires far too much RAM and CPU to run a Linux desktop of any kind. | 06:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 06:00 |
| Tronic | These are $20 phones we are talking of. The hardware *sucks*. | 06:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and...yeah, it was not smart basically announcing symbian as obsolete | 06:00 |
| Arie | bye rihanna | 06:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they could have ramped up harmattan while ramping down symbian | 06:01 |
| Arie | i mean symbian | 06:01 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: Yep, using the Qt dual platform strategy that they had already sold to the developers. | 06:01 |
| Arie | it would have succeeded too | 06:02 |
| Tronic | It would have not only succeeded, but ruled, I think. | 06:02 |
| Arie | yes it would have | 06:02 |
| Tronic | Btw, on Feb 11 I also warned a few people that Nokia is collapsing. People would ignore my warnings and keep buying more and more stocks whenever the price went down. Even at 3.9 € I kept saying that the price is too high when others, including my boss, adviced me to buy Nokia. | 06:05 |
| Arie | why don't you run communities.dominate.blogspot | 06:05 |
| Tronic | At 3.0 € I don't honestly know. The price is so ridiculously low already but I still don't think that Lumia will ever lead to anything good. | 06:05 |
| Arie | i bought an N9, that was the last penny of mine Nokia will ever get from me :p | 06:06 |
| Tronic | After Feb 11 Nokia has lost over 60 % of its market value. | 06:06 |
| Arie | Nokia lost more than that | 06:06 |
| Arie | it lost it's supporters | 06:07 |
| Arie | people like the maemo/harmattan community have turned their back on Nokia | 06:07 |
| Arie | it takes a lot to turn us against you | 06:12 |
| Arie | Nokia i meaa | 06:13 |
| Arie | mean | 06:13 |
| Arie | i didn't understand nicki minaj in nyc promoting the nokia lumia 900, tweeting from a blackberry | 06:14 |
| Arie | that was a major mess up on nokia's behalf | 06:14 |
| Arie | Tronic: thoughts on that situation? | 06:18 |
| beford | lol | 06:18 |
| Tronic | Arie: No comments. | 06:18 |
| Arie | That is supposedly the new Nokia | 06:18 |
| Arie | can't they give the celeb | 06:19 |
| Arie | a phone for at least 1 tweetl | 06:19 |
| Arie | tweet?* | 06:19 |
| Arie | Mr. Ahonen is still tweeting, blocked | 06:21 |
| Arie | this place is as dead as a doornail | 06:39 |
| CreamyG31337 | hey so how come when i update realgolf it runs out of disk space but i have almost double the amount free on rootfs | 07:04 |
| CreamyG31337 | 714M free | 07:04 |
| Arie | do it via terminal | 07:08 |
| Arie | apt-get install realgolf2011=1.2.2+0m8 | 07:13 |
| Arie | do that as root | 07:13 |
| CreamyG31337 | thanks! | 07:13 |
| Arie | yup | 07:14 |
| beford | i find thta game kinda boring | 07:17 |
| CreamyG31337 | yeah i played it like once, i just dont' want the "you have updates" thing there for the rest of my life | 07:18 |
| beford | remove it? :P | 07:18 |
| beford | i should do that too | 07:18 |
| Arie | it doesn't bother me | 07:19 |
| CreamyG31337 | it's way too big, waste of rootfs | 07:19 |
| Arie | lol, there are worse apps out there | 07:20 |
| beford | i dont think it uses rootfs though, its probably optified | 07:20 |
| CreamyG31337 | oh yeah | 07:20 |
| CreamyG31337 | i thought it did since the update fails | 07:21 |
| CreamyG31337 | but that's just the OS sucking | 07:21 |
| Arie | eh, I think it's a half hearted effort | 07:22 |
| Arie | i wonder how much game loft paid to have the game featured on the N9 | 07:23 |
| beford | i would said it was the other way | 07:24 |
| Arie | Nokia paid gameloft? | 07:25 |
| beford | yea, well, just saying | 07:28 |
| Arie | that's fuckedup | 07:30 |
| Arie | they paid for a d class game? | 07:30 |
| Arie | why not pay some other company to put a better game on the N9 | 07:30 |
| beford | well we have that Need For Speed, EA game for free too, and that galaxy thing, not sure who developed it | 07:32 |
| Arie | eh, replace real golf | 07:33 |
| Arie | with emumaster | 07:34 |
| beford | :P | 07:34 |
| beford | get sued by nintendo/sony in 3..2..1 | 07:34 |
| Arie | ok, then what about air attack? | 07:34 |
| Arie | or even samurai 2? | 07:34 |
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| Arie | hell even gears | 07:35 |
| Arie | Hi rihanna | 07:48 |
| Arie | i habe decided from now on when people join the room I wilk greet them with Hi rihanna | 07:48 |
| Arie | have* | 07:49 |
| beford | makes sense | 07:49 |
| Arie | beford: I am not about sense | 07:50 |
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| Arie | bye rihanna | 07:50 |
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| Arie | hi rihanna | 07:57 |
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| Arie | bye rihanna | 08:01 |
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| Arie | bye rihanna | 08:09 |
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| Arie | hi rihanna | 08:12 |
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| bef0rd | :Q | 08:21 |
| Arie | ok ok | 08:25 |
| Arie | bye rihanna | 08:25 |
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| pa | does anybody have problems with N9 touchscreen? | 11:30 |
| pa | on my new one, it sort of trembles | 11:31 |
| petteri | no problems | 11:32 |
| pa | maybe it's im ill and my hands sweat | 11:33 |
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| Siva | pa: something to do with the haptic feedback? you could check sounds and vibration in settings if that helps.. | 11:46 |
| Venemo_N950 | hi | 11:47 |
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| khertan | Morning | 11:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer | pa: connected to USB? operating it while it sits on table? | 12:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | pa: that's a known issue then | 12:28 |
| faenil | hey people | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | touchscreen only works smewhat accurate when you hold the device body with one of your hands (or feet, I don't mind) | 12:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | some sort of electric circuit issue | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | you forming the circuit | 12:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't ask me why it gets worse when device is plugged to USB | 12:31 |
| phako | two-way grounding? | 12:32 |
| phako | via you and the usb? | 12:32 |
| deram | it seems, that you must hold it without touching any part of the glass of the screen. | 12:37 |
| deram | and also it seems that it does some sort of calibration when you push the lockscreen button | 12:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | phako: maybe, but I more think no grounding at your side is the problem | 12:38 |
| deram | usually if I unlock it using only one hand, I cant type any of the leftmost characters on the virtual keyboard | 12:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | quite possible | 12:40 |
| trx | can anyone tell me where is the proximity sensor located on the N9? | 12:58 |
| deram | top right corner | 12:58 |
| deram | you can see it with light, as it is just a bit less black and more redish | 12:59 |
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| trx | i dont have one, thats why i'm asking, thanks | 13:00 |
| trx | in that case its the same as n950 | 13:00 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I seem to recall there've been differences between N950 and N9. Can't check right now, sorry | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | wasn't camera and ALS/proxy upper *left*, in portrait, on N9? | 13:11 |
| deram | camera is in low right on N9 | 13:13 |
| trx | front camera is on the upper right corner on the n950 while its on bottom right on the n9 | 13:13 |
| deram | and at least the clock goeas away from idle-screen if I cover the redish spot on top right corner (portrait N9) | 13:15 |
| deram | probably the ALS is in the same opening as proximity | 13:16 |
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| pa | DocScrutinizer, just in normal use | 13:35 |
| pa | i just checked it now | 13:35 |
| pa | when i swype and i draw a straight line | 13:35 |
| pa | it comes out jaggy | 13:35 |
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| pa | is it a hardware problem? | 13:36 |
| pa | my other N9 didnt do it.. | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | deram: als & proxy sensor are same component iirc | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | proxi? | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | pa: I don't know | 13:38 |
| pa | it works only somehow ok if i press with the very tip of the finger | 13:38 |
| pa | i dont know if i should contact the support | 13:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just can say I've seen a lot of extremely jittery behaviour - to the point of failure - when device sits on my desk with USB attached and I try to operate it "single-handed" | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | vanishes aka "fixes itself" immediately when I hold the device body with my other hand | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | usually | 13:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | once it really freaked out and I had to reboot | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: What if you touch something grounded to the pc with your other hand? | 13:42 |
| pa | well i dont know, but im 100% sure that my other N9 was fine | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: since I use a galvanically isolating charger, this doesn't help | 13:43 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 13:43 |
| pa | ok, interesting enough here's what happen: if i start to draw circles over swype, during the first two three circles it is jagged, then it starts to be smooth | 13:49 |
| pa | something to do with CPU or something? | 13:49 |
| SpeedEvil | play audio in the background | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | or something to keep the CPU alive | 13:50 |
| pa | right | 13:50 |
| pa | i try | 13:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | the touch controller is rather complex | 13:52 |
| pa | actually, with audio in bg, its less jagged, but it remanins like that | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not sure this is a sw thing | 13:52 |
| pa | eg it doesnt get better after 2 seconds | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, you need at least 10 test runs to get anything significant | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I am amused at 'http://www.uplaytablet.com/ainol-novo-7-aurora-ultra-thin-android-4-0-tablet-pc-7-inch-ips-hd-screen-1gb-ram-camera-hdmi-white-8gb/' | 13:53 |
| pa | hm.. | 13:53 |
| SpeedEvil | 'many core' CPU | 13:53 |
| pa | i dont know if reflashing would help | 13:53 |
| pa | sadly i didnt try it before | 13:53 |
| pa | installing the applications i had | 13:53 |
| pa | i will double check on the other one, then probably call nokia | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | pa: clearly the whole thing is something "we" (the plebs) aren't supposed to mess with. Proably no sourcecode, for sure no permissions to touch any of the related parts | 13:56 |
| pa | yes i assume so, but the fact that the other phone is fine and this is not, maybe makes you right | 13:56 |
| pa | that probably isnt a sw thing | 13:56 |
| pa | let me reboot | 13:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 13:58 |
| pa | :D | 13:59 |
| pa | reboot didnt help | 13:59 |
| pa | i should make a video | 13:59 |
| pa | it's so funny | 13:59 |
| pa | 2 seconds and it stops | 14:00 |
| pa | every time the touch starts | 14:00 |
| pa | DocScrutinizer, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJ7kWUa9VI | 14:31 |
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| pa | and when i hold it with two hands, it does the same | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm, yes. Quite in line with what I've seen here, just for me it only happens when I don't hold the body | 14:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I can't always reproduce this effect | 14:37 |
| pa | you have 16 or 64? | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | 16 | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I doubt that's any related | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | it however is massively related to the type of charger I use | 14:40 |
| pa | charger? | 14:41 |
| pa | you mean even when it's unplugged? | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I just swapped N950 from Nokia charger to a LogiLink generic USB charger, and now it doesn't detect *any* touch unless I hold it with other hand | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | while with Nokia charger all was 'just fine' | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, _when_ it detects any touch event, then that's e.g. starting the app in appstarter grid that's 3(!) rows above where I touched screen | 14:44 |
| pa | so in your case it is also related to the charger.... | 14:45 |
| pa | hmm | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | unplugged from charger it immediately starts working again | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I I'm pretty sure it's some form of RF interference | 14:45 |
| pa | but i dont get the "2 secs" behavior | 14:46 |
| pa | why after 2 secs it stops shivering? | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | 100% reproducable: plug in to LogiLink charger ->epic fail on touch detection | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I guess it is some filter function that kicks in, either in atmel(?) touchscreen controller itself, or in touchscreen driver of system | 14:48 |
| pa | wow | 14:48 |
| pa | i found it | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | (2s) | 14:48 |
| pa | it's the screen tone | 14:48 |
| pa | if i disable it, it's fine | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 14:48 |
| pa | smooth like hell | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | screen tone? | 14:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | seriously? | 14:48 |
| pa | perfect | 14:48 |
| pa | yes | 14:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh | 14:48 |
| pa | touch screen tones | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | insane | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahahaha | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | I would say 'submit a bug' | 14:49 |
| SpeedEvil | but... | 14:49 |
| pa | and i like it :S | 14:49 |
| pa | well.. | 14:49 |
| pa | anyway | 14:49 |
| pa | no hw bug | 14:49 |
| pa | or maybe it is an hw bug | 14:49 |
| pa | but at least it works | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH! I locked and unlocked the device, now ts magically "fxed itself", even on LogiLink | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | err, nope | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 14:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, my touchscreen vib&tones are not working at all | 14:52 |
| pa | hæ? thats weird | 14:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, at least that explains why I don't see the jitter you documented | 14:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, somehow it's been 0% volume and I could change it only while e.g. testing ringtone | 14:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | not that this already fixed the missing touch feedback | 14:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | yes, I've set it to "enable vibra" and level3 | 14:57 |
| pa | now it jitters? | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hah, at least vibra now works | 14:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | no jitter | 14:57 |
| pa | in my case it's only the tone | 14:59 |
| pa | not the vibration | 14:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | could you playback some music and see what's the jitter then? | 15:02 |
| pa | lets try | 15:02 |
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| pa | actually yes | 15:04 |
| pa | there is | 15:04 |
| pa | with music playing | 15:04 |
| pa | maybe some interference with the speaker? | 15:04 |
| pa | let me try with earphones | 15:04 |
| pa | with earphones it's fine | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I suspect electrical interference with the class-D amp | 15:05 |
| pa | it must be the speaker then | 15:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | class-D is basically a switching powersupply, just like USB charger | 15:05 |
| * SpeedEvil ponders again his solid-state variac design. | 15:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | frequency from tens of kHz to some MHz for charger, for class-D it clearly starts at >>20kHz | 15:06 |
| pa | DocScrutinizer, but how would you explain then the fact that this problem is present on my phone, but on others is not? | 15:07 |
| pa | different HW? | 15:07 |
| pa | wrong shielding? | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | Improper speaker fitment? | 15:07 |
| SpeedEvil | or shielding loose | 15:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't reproduce any audio on touch here | 15:07 |
| pa | so i should send it back | 15:07 |
| pa | shit :( | 15:07 |
| pa | booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooring | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme see if I find some audio app to crank up the amp while testing touch | 15:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | k, no jitter while playing B-52's | 15:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I'm testing on N950 anyway | 15:12 |
| Termana | DocScrutinizer, play some Love Shack and it might start jittering | 15:13 |
| Siva | pa: looks like you did find your solution within Settings -> Sounds & Vibration after all ;) | 15:13 |
| pa | Siva, its not a solution | 15:13 |
| pa | it means i cant use the speaker and the touch together | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | you say your other N9 has no such problems? | 15:14 |
| Siva | pa: I should have worded that better.. perhaps a step in finding the root cause then.. | 15:14 |
| pa | yes, that one was allright. | 15:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | could you test the audi | 15:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | music playback on the "good" phone? | 15:15 |
| pa | i dont have it here, but i remember that playing angry birds with sound was fine on that one | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Siva: seems we already found the root cause, plus a plausible story on the reasons | 15:16 |
| pa | and here it jitters | 15:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hw issue | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | related to class D amp most probably | 15:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm not completely sure N2150 IHF Amp is actually a class-D, but definitely it has some switching design (L2150) | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | and WTF is Z2151? | 15:29 |
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| * DocScrutinizer glares at connector X1300 | 15:30 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | pa: your problem *might* be related to X1300 connector not properly settled | 15:31 |
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| pa | DocScrutinizer, do you think i could fix it on my own? | 15:42 |
| pa | like if i dismount it | 15:42 |
| pa | or should i rather send it to nokia? | 15:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, no idea. I haven't disassembled any N9 myself yet, so I can't even guess how difficult it is. Also the X1300 is just a shot into the blue. If you got warranty, I'd suggest you use it | 15:52 |
| pa | ok thanks :) | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | YW | 15:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | send absolutely clear instructions how to duplicate the problem, when you send it in. Otherwise service won't detect any defect and return it | 15:54 |
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| rafaelbrandao | does anyone know if there's a way to show virtual keyboard without resizing the app? I want it to go on top of the app, not beside it | 20:56 |
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| danielcbit | Hi Everybody! Does any one know if it is possible to downgrade an N9 PR1.2 to PR1.1? | 22:11 |
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| harbaum | Does anyone know where javispedro is lurking these days? I wonder what he thinks about the pebble watch. He used to like these types of devices | 22:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | he's in here when online | 22:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~seen javispedro | 22:15 |
| infobot | javispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 1d 1h 17m 44s ago, saying: 'looooogs baaaaaad'. | 22:15 |
| harbaum | I'm still kind of irc noob .... thanks for showing this | 22:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 22:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | this however is a function of a "logbot" that's doing baaaaad looooogs, according to some user in here | 22:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I wanna say it's not a general IRC function | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | /whois javispedro | 22:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | otoh is | 22:18 |
| harbaum | :-) | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | /msg nickserv info javispedro | 22:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | /msg nickserv info DocScrutinizer | 22:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | oops | 22:21 |
| harbaum | Infobot and nickserv disagree when they last saw him. But they agree that he was recently here | 22:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for what it's worth you don't need to publish logs in order to implement ~seen | 22:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's due to infobot only counting actual posts | 22:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, danielcbit: not trivially | 22:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and unless you need to do so in order to test something, it isn't really worth doing so anyway | 22:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I wnat to test something | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | how would I downgrade? | 22:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | thought as much | 22:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | danielcbit: Nokia says you can't downgrade, no way, never (unless Nokia does it for you) | 22:32 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and they say so despite they appreciate it'd be a highly useful option for developers, to test their software against different OS that got shipped | 22:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | what they forget to mention: they deliberately and on purpose implemented that restriction, for whatever "security" considerations | 22:36 |
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| piggz_ | hmmm, do i need a new PowerUp qm object.....decisions decisions! | 22:39 |
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