IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2012-04-16

mankeliit's so delightful that qt sdk updater fails _every single time_ i use it00:00
mankelialways there is some post-install-script that fails, or some qmake output is "unparseable" or the thing just gets stuck when it tries to install example sources00:01
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diorahmanmankeli: I thought it was just my connection01:11
diorahmanmankeli: so, it is the qt-sdk-updater problem01:11
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DrGrovI got an issue with my N9 running PR 1.2. The default Camera app is not starting. It only started one time druing my 6-7 attempts. I tested to reboot the phone and run it again but did not work.03:49
DrGrovAny clues what might be the issue and what I might need to do about it?03:49
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virtualdi'd run strace and gdb on it and pretend i knew what i was doing04:24
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: ^ see above04:28
itsnotabigtruckeven running it from the command line might be a hint as to what's going on04:28
itsnotabigtruckcheck the syslog too04:29
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DrGrovI am reading about this, post #7 and/or this, post #5. Seems that it might be an issue. The Drive and/or Map app was not working properly when I had GPS disabled.04:30
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: That is for you04:30
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Well, I shall be fucked.04:40
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Now when I enabled GPS positioning the camera works :) LOL04:40
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: weird...04:44
DrGrovBut I figured it out04:44
DrGrovIt was only to disable GPS positioning in the camera app and then disable GPS positioning from Settings -> Device and it worked without having GPS enabled :)04:45
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: This is great news. Now I can finally start to use the camera for my projects.04:57
DrGrovI am trying to create specific type of photos but just had the camera issue preventing me from doing it.04:58
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itsnotabigtruckanyone on?06:39
itsnotabigtruckanyone with a phone running PR1.0 or PR1.1?06:39
Enforcer90% of australia is on PR1.2 now06:41
Enforcerbut i think i know someone with PR1.0 still06:41
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itsnotabigtruckanyone else on?08:02
SpeedEvilI might be.08:03
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mankelioh, qt sdk maintain tool freezes also when uninstalling the sdk :-D08:27
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mankelicreates a very good image of the whole qt when even deleting files (uninstalling the sdk) or plain extraction (placing example sources to a directory) causes whole thing to just freeze08:28
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wirwehey guys, i have a problem with my mobile internet. while checking mails works all the time, browser and fmobi often have problems with connecting. rebooting helps. i didn't find out when this problem occures, it seems to be without any rule.. maybe is sometimes does not close correctly?? any ides?#14:00
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lizardo~seen jonni15:48
lizardohm, where's infobot ?15:50
rainisto<- jonni15:53
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lizardojonni: for a moment I thought there were two different person :)15:56
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itsnotabigtruckspread the word16:43
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itsnotabigtruckjonni: should have known you'd post something like that >_>16:53
jonniitsnotabigtruck: ;-)16:54
jonniI guess your waiting for PR1.3 before releasing an update to your tool... :)16:54
jonni(unless there are easy fixes around that)16:55
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jonnithere still are multiple ways to get tcb in pr1.2, so devmode changes really shouldn't affect that much, it only blocks 0.1 pasiv17:00
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DocScrutinizerif nokia would bother to ship an official tool that allows adding a policy for origin "local", where local is a signing tool on user's PC that creates a unique signing key for each user, all this madness never whould've needed to happen17:45
DocScrutinizerbut then, this would defeat sole purpose of aegis, which is to protect device (and third party software) from *user*17:46
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DocScrutinizerso it's up to anybodies guess if Nokia will do that, or why they didn't and never will do17:47
DocScrutinizeraegis being about user's privacy and security is a *lie*17:48
jonniyes, I never understood why there wasnt signing tools for imei ranges, even the package format supports imei ranges. Might have been that there was plans in the future, but after feb11 those plans burned away.17:53
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jonniofcourse if someone has community master key, they could do a signing service per imei for cssu (if that ever comes).17:57
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itsnotabigtruckhey rzr20:02
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rzrthx for notifying about the upgrade + inception20:06
DocScrutinizerwell, I told you it will happen like that when you came up with your inception idea. IT's been absolutely clear and expected, so notifying about the particular moment the game advanced one step is all I can detect20:11
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: to use one of your favorite phrases, MEH20:12
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itsnotabigtrucki made the mistake of assuming that everything was going to arrive en bloc, that's all20:13
itsnotabigtruckwhich in retrospect was somewhat stupid because they did the same thing last time20:13
DocScrutinizerNokia wil ship an "update" for every inception version you publish20:14
itsnotabigtruckif so, then maybe that'll keep some harmattan devs employed for a bit longer :p20:14
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DocScrutinizeralas only platsec devels20:16
rzr<itsnotabigtruck> if so, then maybe that'll keep some harmattan devs employed for a bit longer :p20:16
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rzrnow we found a solution to keep the project alive :-)20:17
DocScrutinizernot really20:17
DocScrutinizerNokia already investing manpower into platsec/paegis which better oughta be used for progress in other more useful sectors of HARM20:18
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: they should be investing in update and support, but not that20:19
DocScrutinizerand for all I can see even in this channel a lot of smart FOSS devels are investing lots of time in fighting paegis instead of improving the core functionality of their apps20:19
DocScrutinizernot that they had any choice20:20
DocScrutinizerpaegis offers no choice20:20
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jonniyou just have to figure out how to get pgp key as trusted and make nice tool for signing the packages (and own custom repo as trusted) and hopefully using some feature that cannot be patched :)20:26
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DocScrutinizeractually I'd think the only thing that can't get patched is ROM-BootLoader20:28
DocScrutinizeror cracking original Nokia rootcert PKI20:29
DocScrutinizerwhich *could* get 'patched' but only by replacing *all* binaries/packages20:30
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: evidently you have no idea how the signing scheme works20:31
itsnotabigtruckyou'd be a lot more credible if you knew what you were whinging about20:31
DocScrutinizeryou'd be not considered an asshole by so many credible users of this chan if you were a bit less arrogant and offensive20:32
bindichildren :( no fighting20:33
itsnotabigtruckyou want to talk about offensive?20:33
DocScrutinizereducate me, oh master!20:33
bindipls :<20:34
JareImho a lot people don't want to invest any time learning how aegis works and are whining because of that20:35
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DocScrutinizer~dict whining20:36
infobotDictionary 'whining' (1 of 2): Jeremianic, acute, argute, bawling, beef, beefing, bellyache, bellyaching, bitch, bitching, blatant, complaining, complaint, creaky, crying, destructive criticism, dissent, ear-piercing, faultfinding, fretful, grievance, gripe, griping, groan, groaning, grouse, grousing, grumbling, holler, howl, howling, keen, keening, kick, kicking, lamentive, lowing, moanful, moaning, mournful, mugient, murmuring, peeve, peevish, ...20:36
DocScrutinizerso we maybe at least know what we're talking about20:36
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: i see you talking a lot, but most is negative against others work. i maybe wrong, but dudn't see too much work you done. maybe i missed21:15
pais pyside still supported/developed as far as you know?21:16
pamailing list last message is feb 201221:16
lizardopa: original developers are still working on it , but mostly on free time :/ Nokia funding ceased as mentioned on the mailing list21:19
paah i see..21:20
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lizardopa: but you should know that it is now a Qt add-on, so it least it will not disappear, just not sure how quick will be to keep up to date with latest Qt21:21
paah i see.. but if so, shouldnt it be officially developed?21:21
lizardopa: it is more a community effort now, i.e. no current funding from Nokia (AFAIK)21:22
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paanyway, i was mostly concerned about the assistant, that packages in a way that is incompatible with the store21:23
pa(e.g., putting stuff in /usr/bin/)21:23
pabut now that i think about it, maybe that's python too21:23
paso i could have a look at it21:23
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Jareitsnotabigtruck: so installing the developer mode updates doesn't affect Inception, if it is installed before those updates?21:40
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itsnotabigtruckJare: precisely21:43
itsnotabigtruckspecifically it makes it so you can't chroot from user programs21:43
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Jareok, maybe I'll just run the updates then..21:45
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pai have a little problem with flashing the phone22:02
paapparently flasher -i doesnt recognize it22:02
paand when i plug it powered off, windows cant install drivers22:03
paah now it goes22:05
Jareitsnotabigtruck: well that was quick :)22:10
jktso I've just updated yet again22:12
itsnotabigtruckjkt: got some screenshots?22:13
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jktitsnotabigtruck: I'll make some22:16
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itsnotabigtruckbtw jkt: make sure to get inception 0.1.122:29
itsnotabigtruckand pa22:29
itsnotabigtrucklizardo: nokia dumped pyside? that's not a good sign for qt in general22:30
jktitsnotabigtruck: is that some rooting tool? why should I need it over the built-in developer mode?22:32
itsnotabigtruckjkt: looks pretty nice for alpha software :)22:32
itsnotabigtruckthat 2nd area definitely needs to be harmattanized a bit but i'm sure that'll come with time22:32
itsnotabigtruckyeah, it's a rooting tool22:32
itsnotabigtruckdeveloper mode gives you a small subset of the permissions available22:33
itsnotabigtruckinception gives you any and all permissions22:33
itsnotabigtruckthere's a lot of things you can't do with dev mode22:33
jktyeah, well22:33
jktenough for me :)22:33
itsnotabigtruckthere's quite few things you can't do with inception22:33
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ZogG_laptopjkt: oh gentoo pal =)22:39
ZogG_laptopjkt: put the updated info and last screenshots in first post as well22:41
jktitsnotabigtruck: would you suggest particular tweaks for the appearance of the mailbox listing?22:43
jktZogG_laptop: looks like I cannot do that, that post belongs to someone else22:44
ZogG_laptopjkt: if you are the one who gonna develop/maintain it - make the new one i think22:46
lizardoitsnotabigtruck: it migrated to a Qt Add-on , because the original project was ceased (given it was mostly oriented to Harmattan...), so it is no community driven22:47
infobotlizardo meant: itsnowtabigtruck: it migrated to a Qt Add-on , because the original project was ceased (given it was mostly oriented to Harmattan...), so it is no community driven22:47
lizardobogus bot :)22:48
itsnotabigtrucki'll bbiab22:50
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, do you have a account? (
DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: I see you stating a lot of nonsense, but most of it is obscure how you came to this notion. I may be wrong, but I don't see too much reasonable posts or other contributions you did. Maybe I missed the point you're actually just trolling23:10
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ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: there are not much i've done, but my point was that you little bit negative time to time23:11
DocScrutinizersorry I don't satisfy your expectations of positive entertainment23:12
DocScrutinizerbut that's for sure mutual23:12
RST38hSo, anyone willing to bet on Elop's head-on-a-stick by Christmas time?23:13
* DocScrutinizer fixes the glitch that sneaked into his /ignore list23:13
RST38hOr will they keep him until February, to give the whole affair a sense of circularity?23:13
ZogG_laptopRST38h: let's bet that next move even after Elop would be stupid as well. like swithching to android or something =)23:17
RST38hI can easily guess what the next move is23:17
RST38hit won't be rather inconsequentlial though23:18
RST38hElop is preparing a Win8 tablet.23:18
RST38hAnd WP7 is all but abandoned by MS, as they are promising full-scale Win8 on ARM devices by Christmas. As far as teams inside MS are concerned, WP7 is most likely ancient history.23:19
RST38hOf course there is a small matter of Nokia relying on WP7 to survive, but this doesnot concern MS employees: Nokia is not paying their bonuses23:20
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ZogG_laptopRST38h: but what do you think would be phones strategy? as i assume win8 is more for tablets23:21
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ZogG_laptopMeaTizen - it's Tizen + meego + maemo =)23:21
RST38hthere is no phone strategy23:22
RST38hthere is low cost S40 quickly reaching S60 functionality23:22
RST38hThere is Symbian (whatever it is called now) which continues selling Nokia smartphones23:22
RST38hAnd then there is braindead Lumias that Nokia is failing to sell to customers23:23
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RST38hSo they are trying two approaches to making their ends meet: 1) subscribe businesses, giving them lumias in bulk23:23
ZogG_laptopi hoped for harmattan getting back, but i know would never happen or would happen as harmattan step 5 and no support for n9, every one buys new N10 and than Nokia ditching it in 2 months after release23:23
RST38hand 2) push lumias with new cell contracts, almost for free23:23
tehdelyfrom what i've heard, you'll be able to upgrade newer WP7.5 handsets to WP823:24
tehdelybut don't quote me on it23:24
RST38hAgain, this saves certain managers inside Nokia, letting them say that they "moved so-many Lumias last moth"23:24
RST38hbut it does not bring company any money23:24
ZogG_laptopRST38h: read twit, so guy in Russia heard sellers advising not to buy Lumia coz of high returns =)23:25
ZogG_laptopRST38h: i don't like Lumia, but would take even 10 if it's for free =)23:25
RST38hZogG: I have one23:26
RST38hZogG: You wouldn't.23:26
ZogG_laptopRST38h: than send me yours23:27
itsnotabigtruckGeneralAntilles: hm?23:29
* Arkenoi got ridiculous comment from android user today: "wow, what is the OS on your phone? it is has *so* fast UI!"23:29
itsnotabigtrucki signed up for one a while back23:29
itsnotabigtrucknot sure if i have any kermaz yet from the forum23:29
itsnotabigtruckoh cool, it transferred, now i have 169 karma23:29
Arkenoiit is always nice to know there are people who feel even worse than we do23:30
itsnotabigtrucklol Arkenoi23:30
itsnotabigtruckbtw tehdely RST38h: new inception ver out (0.1.1)23:30
RST38hyohoho thanks23:30
itsnotabigtruckwhich is a quick fix for the devmode update that arrived this morning23:30
RST38hso should I install devmode update first or the new inception?23:31
itsnotabigtruckRST38h: either works23:32
itsnotabigtruckthe devmode update prevents enabling inception23:32
itsnotabigtruckif you already did that inception will keep working23:32
RST38hah ok23:32
itsnotabigtruck(enabling = running pasiv)23:32
Arkenoiah ok23:33
itsnotabigtruckalso the way the update does that is by taking away your ability to chroot23:33
Arkenoiso it is good i already have inception done23:33
itsnotabigtruckso keep that in mind23:33
itsnotabigtruckof course with inception available that's not so much of a problem23:33
itsnotabigtruckbut it's a shame nokia's created collateral damage with this23:33
Arkenoiso this update had the sole purpose to prevent inception, and failed anyways? sh*t. i wish nokia invested that resources in doing something *useful* for us, say, fixing tracker process23:34
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Arkenoihaving half-unsupported platform and wasting resources struggling its own users, that's what i call moronic behavior23:35
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itsnotabigtruckwell, the update is part of PR1.3, in the past they've released updates to the ancillary stuff shortly before the actual OS23:36
itsnotabigtruckPR1.3 includes a number of fixes, not just inception stuff23:37
itsnotabigtruckbut it definitely has some anti-inception tweaks23:37
mankelii wonder if anything else is affected by this recent change23:38
Arkenoii wonder if we ever get tracker-store fixed23:39
Arkenoithe bug is still open23:39
itsnotabigtruckis the buggy tracker code open source?23:39
itsnotabigtrucktracker itself is23:39
itsnotabigtruckmight be able to fix it and put it into a CSSU-type thing23:39
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jonniArkenoi: what tracker store bug?23:47
Arkenoithis one23:48
_MeeGoBot_Bug 245 maj, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, REOP, CPU 100% tracker contacts merge23:48
Arkenoiuntil it is fixed there is no chance for me to have a sane address book23:49
ZogG_laptopis it only me or there is that annoying email downloads/sync bug and stuck internet connection bug in PR1.2 . coz sometimes i get timeouts - i close all apps but i can see connection is used for a while23:49
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, are you registered on We use usernames on to generate links to their userpages.23:51
ZogG_laptopGeneralAntilles: btw any plans on redesinging site?23:52
ZogG_laptopoh, btw do you have option to submit news over web?23:53
Arkenoii think it could be wise to withhold inception update for a while, warn users not to install developer mode update, wait for pr1.3 to be sure there are no other surprises and then issue inception update.. otherwise there is a chance we would need another hack after 1.3 :-)23:53
itsnotabigtruckGeneralAntilles: yeah, it's, unsurprisingly, itsnotabigtruck23:53
itsnotabigtruckArkenoi: i already released 0.1.123:54
itsnotabigtruckalso, 0.1.1 specifically uses an exploit that's definitely already fixed23:54
itsnotabigtruckthat's the entire point, it's a stopgap between now and the real update to inception (which is coming out later)23:54
jonniArkenoi: internal bugzilla says fixed on contacts merge, so might be that nobody just bothers to update public statuses.23:54
Arkenoijonni, it was said to be fixed in 1.2, but actually it was not so i reopened it :-(23:55
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jonnithen you can only hope that 1.3 merges contacts right23:55
ZogG_laptopArkenoi: you can pray =)23:56
ZogG_laptopand maybe your prays would be heard23:56
itsnotabigtruckwhat's the relevant package?23:56
* Arkenoi wonders if there will be ota to 1.3 and if it will leave opensh intact :-)23:57
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itsnotabigtruckArkenoi: for the former, of course23:58
itsnotabigtruckfor the latter, guess we'll have to find out23:58
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* Arkenoi feels sooo symbian with that stupid aegis23:59

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