IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2012-04-10

itsnotabigtruckrzr: velmont was talking about gtalk/jingle i think00:02
itsnotabigtruckalso whoa, join spam00:03
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itsnotabigtruckanyway, Velmont: it, in theory, should work on any server00:03
itsnotabigtruckbut when i tried it on my server, over 3g, it just got stuck00:03
itsnotabigtruckwith somebody else on the same server00:03
itsnotabigtrucki'm going to have to make some test calls with logging turned way up so i can see what's going on00:04
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itsnotabigtruck^^ uh oh00:11
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paso now skype video calls work on N9 with this peregrine?00:27
rzrnever tested00:27
paim getting the phone tomorrow00:27
pai+ll try then00:28
pait would be great00:28
pai was already considering the switch to gtalk, but without a native client for PC, it's a no-go00:29
pa(i mean, a native client supporting video calls)00:29
ieatlintuh, peregrine doesn't support video calls to my knowledge00:30
ieatlintjust rechecked... their last update was in nov00:30
ieatlintand peregrine as i understand uses the base system's chat system, so it has the same limitations.. only gtalk supports video calling methinks00:30
javispedrothey _do_ advertise skype video calls though00:31
javispedro(not saying it actually does them00:33
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itsnotabigtrucki thought peregrine uses its own GUI00:35
itsnotabigtrucknot the system chat interface00:35
ieatlinti see a random website claiming that, but nothing on peregrine's own website00:35
ieatlintbut maybe i'm blind00:35
javispedroieatlint: nah, you are right00:36
ieatlintyeah, i'd be very surprised if peregrine worked with skype to add video calling support to their app00:37
pamaybe they reversed the protocol00:38
paskype sources were circulating some time ago00:38
ieatlinti wouldn't say that's impossible, but it'd be highly unlikely00:39
pa(i might have downloaded that :p)00:39
pathe deb is there00:39
pai'll check it as soon as i can00:39
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PaulePanterpa: Do not Empathy or Pidgin support Video calls with GTalk?02:18
PaulePanterRegarding Fenix: Are there any ways to debug it? Receiving and sending messages seems pretty slow with a certain provider. But the provider works fine with Thunderbird on a PC.02:19
itsnotabigtruckPaulePanter: the do02:27
itsnotabigtruckbut in the case of pidgin, on linux only02:27
itsnotabigtruckwhich is a real shame because most pidgin users are on windows02:27
itsnotabigtruckdevelopers don't care and aren't fixing it02:27
ieatlinteh, windows support is more of a feature than anything else...02:40
ieatlintgetting the camera to work in windows would require a lot of windows-specific code, so it's a bit more involved than simply compiling gtk for windows02:41
* javispedro curses02:42
javispedroanyone knows where the /etc/locale.alias file has gone to in modern distros?02:42
javispedrolike on harm itself for example02:42
* javispedro ponders if I should look for systemd-locale-alias-plugin...02:43
Termanajavispedro, on Ubuntu 11.10 the file is still located at /etc/locale.alias02:44
javispedromeh, it's gone on this gentoo at least, and stracing binaries reveals they don't even look for it :(02:45
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: check what the debian way to do it is02:47
itsnotabigtrucksince harmattan would have inherited that02:47
itsnotabigtruckdoing things the arch/gentoo/whatever way on debian tends to screw everything up02:47
javispedrothe debian way is locale.alias, but maemo deviates a lot from debian her02:47
itsnotabigtruckoh ok :/02:48
DocScrutinizerouch locale02:48
javispedroe.g. posix-locales package02:48
* DocScrutinizer glares at that notorious 21MB file02:48
javispedroposix-locales is in nokia-binaries =)02:49
javispedroI ponder if one could consider that a GPL violation...02:49
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DocScrutinizeroh yes, please!02:50
DocScrutinizerI laways considered it a major offense I have to spend dozens of MB of valuable roootfs space for greek, spanish, french, whatnot locale02:51
TermanaDocScrutinizer, do you install it for the german locale?02:52
javispedronah, not GPL violating ("Distribution and use is free, also for commercial purposes")02:52
DocScrutinizerand you couldn't even think "screwit" and revert to lang=C as then you get this tana-fi-* BS02:53
itsnotabigtruckthe copyright file says it's lgpl02:53
javispedroitsnotabigtruck: that is wrong for half of the packages =) welcome to maemo! =)02:54
javispedroDocScrutinizer: on the N9/50 at least locale-archive is way lighter because most of the stuff they have moved to whatever clone of gettext() Qt has02:54
DocScrutinizermeh yeah02:54
DocScrutinizerif it was tr() I'd actually be happy02:55
DocScrutinizerI bet it's not02:55
javispedro(afaik it is)02:56
itsnotabigtruckisn't it qtTrId?03:02
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Enforceri keep getting the same software update notification that i keep saying 'ignore update'04:08
heymasterHello, sorry for such rude questions. Does it possible to get Nokia N9 for free ?04:14
javispedrosend a few ones this way if you ever find a positive answer for that04:14
ieatlintthe answer is entirely dependent on how fast you can run04:15
heymasterOk, i will stick with my NOkia 500 :)04:15
heymasterWhich doesn't not have GPU :/04:15
heymasters/NOkia/Nokia . still love this brand :)04:16
heymasterI own few iPods, but bought Nokia try Qt :)04:19
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itsnotabigtruckheymaster: is it possible? yes, well, it was at certain points04:25
itsnotabigtruckat this point, probably not04:25
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: ok :)04:25
itsnotabigtruckfortunately the N9 is a lot cheaper than it was before04:25
ieatlintnot really even04:25
itsnotabigtruckit still feels disappointing knowing that most people here were benefactors of free hardware04:25
ieatlintN9s were given out at dev days, but that wasn't a free event, and not to everyone04:25
itsnotabigtruckthere were also contests, and they gave some to ovi developers with popular apps, and there was the whole N950 thing04:26
itsnotabigtruckmaybe some other programs i don't know about too04:26
heymasterI tried to win 3 times: Nokia Facebook, From Local Operator Facebook and submitted comments for Qt Examples :)04:28
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itsnotabigtruckheymaster: your best bet is to drop the $400 or whatever it's going for these days04:30
itsnotabigtruckwhen i bought mine it kinda cost too much but now 64 gb N9s are going for OK prices04:31
itsnotabigtruckand i'd say it's worth it, some here would disagree04:31
itsnotabigtruckon the other hand you can probably get more for your money with android04:31
itsnotabigtruckforget about symbian phones04:32
javispedrowow, easy debian is very nice on harm04:32
itsnotabigtruckat least N9 has the power of linux behind it04:32
itsnotabigtruckonce symbian is dead it'll be dead04:32
itsnotabigtrucki wish qole would buck it up and do the necessary tweaks to make it inception-friendly04:33
javispedrowell it would be hard04:33
itsnotabigtruckit's not a technical problem, it's just that he hates aegis too much to look into it and make the minor changes04:33
javispedroitsnotabigtruck: what solution you propose?04:33
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: assert credentials on the launcher scripts, drop credentials on the inside of the chroot04:34
javispedroand developer mode? or something like that?04:34
itsnotabigtruckuse aegisctl or something like it to disable the source identifier check while in the chroot04:34
javispedrowith dev mode the problem is the brief moment where you are running a "" source binary as root right after chroot, and that could be fixed with aegis trickery indeed04:36
javispedroif that could be fixed, you'd not need openmode or cracking aegis04:36
javispedroe.g. a chroot binary with sys_chroot that spawns the inside-chroot process as "user" with acceptable privilege set for "" source04:37
itsnotabigtruckwell, it's possible to make it work without aegisctl if you never need to run the chroot as root04:37
javispedrooh yeah, was thinking no one would do that :(04:38
javispedro(but it's false, e.g. apt-get install)04:38
heymaster << Was Nokia Swipe Challenge. I wrote program which plays automatically. But haven't win anything. I think there was cheates which changed Flash memory04:38
itsnotabigtruckheymaster: if you can afford the phone plan with data plan you'd need for the N9, you can likely afford the N904:39
itsnotabigtruckalso, lol04:40
itsnotabigtruckwith a lot of those you can just wireshark the communication from flash, modify the score, submit it with curl or the like04:40
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itsnotabigtruckthat said, the price of the N9 can be kinda hard to swallow, especially now that nokia has 0 commitment to it04:41
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: i'm now not employed :)04:41
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itsnotabigtruckespecially since in many places phones are often subsidized by the carriers and a locked phone would go for $0 to $15004:41
itsnotabigtrucknot $400 to $50004:41
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: ok, I have contract with android phone, so won't buy another04:43
itsnotabigtruckheymaster: :( it would be great to have another dev building cool stuff for the N904:43
itsnotabigtruckbut i can't fault you for sticking with android04:43
itsnotabigtruckalso javispedro: i'm guessing this is why you were working with XIM?04:44
itsnotabigtruckcool stuff04:44
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: operators prices of Nokia N9 is very big. In my country it's cheaper to buy from just resellers04:44
javispedroitsnotabigtruck: hey, you are faster than the "post confirmation" page04:44
itsnotabigtruckwtf, unlocked is cheaper than locked from carriers? :O04:44
itsnotabigtruckanyway, i think the MSRP of the N9 is now 300E04:45
javispedroitsnotabigtruck: I was working on something else, but then I had the idea, and I had to try :)04:45
itsnotabigtruckthe $400 price i was quoting was based on some importers to the US04:45
javispedroitsnotabigtruck: i think something nice can be done though04:45
itsnotabigtruckwould a normal linux desktop be remotely usable in portrait?04:45
itsnotabigtrucksince a landscape kbd would take up way too much room04:46
itsnotabigtruckand the current setup doesn't look so ideal :p04:46
itsnotabigtruckor maybe a custom low profile layout could be done for the keyboard04:46
itsnotabigtruckmight be tricky squashing a full qwerty in there though...unless...04:47
itsnotabigtrucknon-conventional input schemes might be able to be squashed in small enough space04:47
itsnotabigtrucke.g. each button brings up a submenu of 3 letters04:47
javispedrothe fact that the n950 sticky keys now work is also a side added benefit =)04:48
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itsnotabigtruck3 letters per button + 1 button for punctuation + space + shift = 12 buttons04:49
itsnotabigtruck12 buttons could fit in one row04:49
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heymasteritsnotabigtruck: from reseller it's 390 euros, from operator 460 euros04:49
itsnotabigtruckheymaster: what? 390 euros, that's more than msrp04:49
javispedroitsnotabigtruck: I'd even use the std landscape keyboard with a proper smart resizing algorithm04:50
javispedroor actually the lack of one, maybe just keep it a 480 px tall but make it scrollable, or inteligently following focus (I think doable)04:50
javispedrowell, gotta go04:53
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heymasteritsnotabigtruck: Just web page, maybe phone was used few days I don't know. Then N9 was announced N9 from operator price was about 640 euros04:54
itsnotabigtruck640 euros? :O :O :O04:54
itsnotabigtruck640 dollars maybe, 640 euros, hell nah04:54
heymasteryes euros04:55
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: you live in U.S. ?04:55
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itsnotabigtruckheymaster: yeah04:56
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: So you can buy 1 gallon of fuel and we can buy 1 liter of fuel in same price :)04:58
heymasterApple computers prices so big in Europe.05:01
itsnotabigtruckisn't the major reason for that fuel taxes05:01
itsnotabigtruckthe us has fuel taxes too but i guess they're an order of magnitude lower05:01
itsnotabigtruckbut at least in most european countries people get something out of their taxes05:01
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: most countries have about 21% taxes05:02
itsnotabigtruckalso remember to compare electronics prices w/o VAT05:02
itsnotabigtruckprices in the us are never shown with sales tax included05:02
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: i can simply say: if you buy computer in u.s. for 500$, so in Europe it will be 500 euros :)05:03
itsnotabigtruckheymaster: but 500 eur - 20% = 400 eur = $52505:03
itsnotabigtruckit's in the VAT05:04
heymasteritsnotabigtruck: so iPad costs 499$. This price with vat or not ?05:04
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itsnotabigtruckthat's without vat/sales tax05:04
itsnotabigtruckthough in the US there's a loophole in that when you order something across state lines you don't have to pay sales tax05:05
heymasterso everything ok :)05:05
itsnotabigtruckalso sales tax is 5 to 10% and applied at final retail sale05:05
itsnotabigtruckwhereas VAT is 10 to 20% and applied at every stage of the supply chain, afaik05:05
heymasterok you right05:06
heymasterjust prices to big for me, but it's my problem :)05:06
itsnotabigtrucktaxes are definitely no fun though05:07
itsnotabigtruckincome tax day is about to roll around in the US05:07
itsnotabigtruckmost people get a refund but that's a tiny portion of what they already forked over to the IRS05:08
AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: is their a site with directions for packaging for harmattan without using QT creator?05:22
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itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: maybe?05:49
itsnotabigtruckit's more or less the same as for debian05:49
itsnotabigtrucklook for info about debian packaging05:49
itsnotabigtruckbecause the procedure is identical05:49
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itsnotabigtruckspecifically packaging using a source package and dpkg-buildpackage05:49
itsnotabigtrucknot hacky packaging with dpkg -b05:49
itsnotabigtruckcheck that out05:50
itsnotabigtruck this too05:50
itsnotabigtruckthe plus side is that once you do this you can upload the DSC and TAR.GZ produced by dpkg-buildpackage to apps for meego05:51
itsnotabigtruckwith minimum fuss05:51
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AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: what about with Aegis?05:58
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itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: you put an xml file named debian/packagename.aegis in the source tree06:00
itsnotabigtruckit'll automatically get put into the package during the build process06:00
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AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: is there, like, a template package or something?06:00
AndrewX192I just need to package my VPN script :|06:00
itsnotabigtrucknote that the auto-magic aegis embedding won't work on obs, you need a special trick for that06:00
itsnotabigtruckwell, you could start with one of mine06:00
befordany alternaTive video player recommended? i cant queue videos on the default06:01
AndrewX192Open Video Player?06:02
itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: oh, also, in case that wasn't clear, the build needs to be done inside scratchbox06:04
itsnotabigtruckit's possible to build a package the hacky way on any debian system, but it's more complicated than usual due to aegis06:05
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befordAndrewX192, ovi store?06:09
AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: oh snap :|06:09
AndrewX192beford: No, see TMO.06:09
befordokay. will check it later then. thanks06:10
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theydrew1stbloodhi, can someone tell me which chan Windows Mobile developers use? I couldn't find it by googling10:01
theydrew1stblooddon't say the 4th chan, I went there and it doesn't have phones, just cartoon porn10:01
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Jaffatheydrew1stblood: No idea, and don't really care ;-)10:13
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PaulePanterIs it possible to debug the Fenix mail client on the N9?10:27
PaulePanterReceiving and sending messages is kind of slow with one provider. There are no problems with Thunderbird though on a PC.10:27
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gabriel9|workis there a way to see number of downloads of Opera in Ovi store?11:37
gabriel9|workor any other app11:37
Khertan_Wif you are the publisher, yes you can ?11:38
gabriel9|workbut if i am not?11:38
gabriel9|workit should be some stats, they should not be accurate11:39
Khertan_Wi don't think11:39
Khertan_Wit s funny to see that khtpasswdgen is more downloaded from china, turkey, iraq11:41
Khertan_Wwhile khtsimpletext is more downloaded from european country11:41
gabriel9|workpeople like to install apps :D11:41
gabriel9|workthey just sit and gime gime gime :D11:41
Khertan_Wyeah but it s funny to see that china, turkey and iraq are more insterested in security apps :)11:42
gabriel9|worki did not know that11:43
Richlvgabriel9|work, is opera in ovi store ?11:45
Richlvi installed it from some deb...11:46
gabriel9|workit is in ovi11:46
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radiofreeopera would be great if it wasn't for that terrible vkb they use14:59
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Velmontradiofree: Agreed, -- I think we hit a bug on that, and the guy working on harmattan Opera was doing it between projects. Would be nice to fix it.15:17
VelmontRichlv: The ovi store one is newer.15:18
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mankeliis it possible to fix a MALF without flashing the whole phone?15:47
dm8tbrI think there is a kernel+initramfs you could boot to fix offending files and reset the malf file15:49
mankelii created a package in scratchbox with dh_make and dpkg-buildpackage, and when I installed it on the phone it complained that it tried to update some aegis files (restok and refhashlist iirc) but couldn't due to insufficient permissions15:50
mankelithen when i tried to remove the package, it spat out /usr/sbin/enter_malf: Entering MALF state SECURITY Failed '/var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf' signature check15:50
dm8tbrdunno if this would help in this case15:51
dm8tbrsomeone else who knows the 'mechanics' better would need to comment15:51
mankelionly reference to aegis in that package was "Aegis-Manifest: empty" in the package control file, so wtf15:51
mankelidm8tbr: what happens after I follow those instructions? do I have to flash the kernel again (back to the stock pr1.2 one) or what?15:53
dm8tbrno it only loads the kernel over USB15:53
mankeliaah i see15:53
dm8tbrI don't know about that restok.conf file15:53
dm8tbryou'd need to get one that's kosher'15:54
mankelimaybe it was just because that package installed some it's binaries to /bin/ and not /usr/bin/15:54
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mankeli..some of it's..15:54
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itsnotabigtruckmankeli dm8tbr: watch out15:59
itsnotabigtruckbooting that kernel will put you into open mode until the next reflash starting with P1.215:59
itsnotabigtruckas for the actual error...wtf16:00
mankeliso i cannot just follow those instructions, remove those offending files from /bin/ (if that's the cause) and reboot?16:01
itsnotabigtrucknope, also, the problem is that the signature on restok.conf is broken apparently16:02
itsnotabigtruckyou'd have to try and roll back restok.conf to something that matches the sig16:02
mankelii wonder how the hell did that happen16:03
itsnotabigtruckthat's what i'm wondering16:03
mankelithe package i tried to install, is this
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure if the package itself is the cause16:04
itsnotabigtrucksounds like something just went horribly wrong in the install16:04
mankeliI did install that with normal "dpkg -i screenetc.deb" line but within incepted opensh, because there hasn't been any problems before installing packages in opensh16:05
itsnotabigtruckin the future if you suspect something could be up with refhashlist or restok.conf, don't reboot or install/uninstall anything16:06
itsnotabigtruckthen it'll be too late16:06
itsnotabigtruckdo accli -c tcb-verify -F /path/to/file16:07
itsnotabigtruckif it's valid it'll print out the contents, otherwise it'll error out16:07
itsnotabigtruckin order to resign you can do accli -c tcb-sign -F /path/to/file < /path/to/file16:07
itsnotabigtruckthat last part has to be done from opensh16:07
mankeliokay. i didn't expect that anything was wrong because dpkg tried to update those files, but said that it didn't have sufficient permissions to do so16:08
itsnotabigtruckwhich is odd because it should, always16:09
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mankelibut should I still do that boot with n950 kernel and try to investigate? can I return from open mode easily?16:10
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itsnotabigtrucknot without wiping everything like i said16:19
kimjuhas someone already packaged mosh for harmattan: ?16:20
mankelioh damn. i thought only kernel reflash would be enough16:20
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itsnotabigtruckkimju: hm, don't think so16:45
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itsnotabigtruckgrab the 3 source files and do dpkg-source -x foo.dsc in scratchbox16:45
itsnotabigtruckthen dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b16:45
itsnotabigtruckwait a little while and you should have a package16:45
itsnotabigtruckyou might have to do some dependencies too16:46
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mankelii had to also package that libprotobuf16:48
mankeliand the mosh launcherscript requires perl package io::pty16:48
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mankelii compiled libprotobuf and mosh in sb to .debs, but they will still need that io::pty. it's possible to install that via cpan on sb but i dunno how it is on the phone16:49
mankelii didn't have chance to actually test the software on the phone because of this nice little malf incident :-D16:50
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: lol, that's a weird coincidence16:51
itsnotabigtruckanyway, throw everything into OBS and submit to rzr's apt repo maybe?16:51
mankeliyeah, i the reason why i started tinkering with screen instead of that, is that my home router doesn't seem to allow udp through so I thought that I will test those mosh .debs when i get home :-D16:53
mankeliit's a nice coincidence indeed, but I don't know those mosh packages are safe (as in non-phone-bricking sense) since i also made those with same dh_make procedure16:55
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itsnotabigtruckmankeli: dh_make?16:56
itsnotabigtruckisn't dh_make for creating new packages16:57
itsnotabigtrucknot building existing ones16:57
mankeliyeah well, I was creating packages from source tarballs16:59
mankelii didn't know that mosh already exists in debian repo. the PPA that's listed on mosh homepage doesn't have source packages17:01
mankelii wonder what's wrong in that restok.conf file, there's "package: screen" in the end and that's it17:03
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mankeliotherwise it seems to be ok17:04
itsnotabigtruckanyway, might be a good idea to build the official debian one since somebody presumably already put in the work to get the kinks out17:04
mankelithat perl package is probably the only problem. everything else compiled nicely17:06
itsnotabigtruckyeah but e.g. the debian stuff might have install hooks and stuff17:08
itsnotabigtruckanyway, i gotta run17:10
mankelime too17:10
itsnotabigtruckalso, get in #inception!17:10
itsnotabigtruckthere's not enough people in there atm :(17:11
ciaconI'm wondering if emacs(23?) is available... I sorta miss my org-mode on the go ;)17:11
mankelisure :-)17:11
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Jareso, I went to local nokia care in the morning and they gave me a new device in the evening. Obviously I still don't know what was wrong with the old one.. :P17:49
JaffaHmm, started using MfE to sync my N9's contacts to Google (I want the N9 to be master) and every sync I seem to be getting duplicates at one end or other which I have to merge.17:52
X-FadeJaffa: ovi contacts sync still on?17:57
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GeneralAntillesWhen have we not had contact duplication problems with Maemo?17:59
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JaffaX-Fade: No18:01
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JareDocScrutinizer, jonni: check a couple of comments upwards ^18:10
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DocScrutinizerJare: toldya they don't ever tell customers what's been the exact fault18:20
jonnibut good that you got new device back18:21
DocScrutinizerexactly the kind of story I've heard several times for N900 now (modulo the "gave me new device" which will be "gave me N8" for N900) - I'd bet Nokia must have internal evaluations what's the usual common root problem there18:22
Jareyup, the customer service guy wasn't even the one, who serviced the device18:22
DocScrutinizerjonni: I guess those strictly hw errors don't usually show up in NB-bugtracker18:23
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DocScrutinizerjonni: as already mentioned, no such switch on N900, so the problem gotta be sth else18:24
jonnior can just be 2 different problems not releated to each other18:24
DocScrutinizerand I'm sure Nokia EE dept knows about the topic18:25
DocScrutinizermind you, I was EE at OM's hw dept, so I think I know what my colleagues would do when a certain error pattern shows up above statistical significance18:27
jonniIm only sw side, so I dont know anything about hw :)18:28
DocScrutinizerxray'ing chips is just one of the more usual less drastic measures taken, to find the root cause18:28
DocScrutinizerjonni: well aware of that - I hoped you'd know the internal phone number of your EE colleagues ;-D18:29
jonniheh dont care that much, if there is a problem I just hope that warranty will fix18:30
DocScrutinizerjonni: alas for N900 Nokia decided they don't care anymore and thus dumped spare devices - we're on our own to fix them, unless we wanna swap for an N8, during warranty18:33
DocScrutinizerthat's the whole reason I kindly ask Nokia to provide a minimum of info regarding root cause of that rather common error18:34
jonniheh I have few extra N900s gathering dust in my drawers18:34
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DocScrutinizeron a serious word: it's a reasonable fair request that Nokia shares as much of service documentation and existing written advice and background info as they can, if they decide to cease service for a device that's just a bit older than 2 years for the oldest of them18:39
DocScrutinizerhell, I still can buy new N900 (with much luck, alas) with 2 years of warranty, and Nokia doesn't have any spareparts to service them18:41
DocScrutinizerand one year ago you could buy new N900 on each corner, with 2 years warranty18:41
DocScrutinizerthat's insane18:41
DocScrutinizerI'm thoroughly pissed by that policy, and I very politely ask to hand out info when they decide they can't offer service anymore18:42
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DocScrutinizerso we could try to do service ourselves, rather than sue Nokia18:44
mankelican i backup my messages and contacts manually somehow? or are they stored in some weird aegis stronghold18:45
mankeliby manually i mean that n950 kernel image which exposes the whole emmc as usb storage18:46
DocScrutinizerother companies actually got sued and sentenced for similar cease of service before reasonable timespan expired18:46
jonnimost likely best contact for repair details or instructions is nokia care, as sw people have no contact for hw care people usually.18:47
DocScrutinizerI'd rather like to help, rather than flicking a dead horse18:47
DocScrutinizerjanok, thanks18:47
DocScrutinizerjonni: ok, thanks!18:48
jonnimankeli: atleast there is commandline backup for sms messages in the forum18:48
jonnimankeli: and there is a commandline backup script, but I dont know if its public18:48
mankelijonni: i wonder if you could tell me which files to copy if sharing the script is a problem?18:52
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itsnotabigtruckweird, my ssh keeps dropping every couple mins19:14
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: they're stored in tracker19:14
itsnotabigtruckno aegis involvement19:14
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DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Hi there Doc. You somewhere close? I would need a quick translation for a academic word.19:24
DrGrovWould someone give an variation of the word "Action" ? I am trying to figure out a better and more appopriate word for the context where I need the word.19:27
alteregoDrGrov: that's hard if you don't give the context ..19:28
mankelimgedmin: aha.19:28
DrGrovalterego: Sorry about that. The context is about suggestions and improvements about a final thesis I am workig on. Has to do with tourism and hotel business.19:28
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SpeedEvilCan you use it in a sentance?19:29
DrGrovSpeedEvil: Du är väl finlandssvensk eller hur?19:29
SpeedEvil'to action' or 'an action'19:30
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DrGrovSpeedEvil: If you are not a bilingual Finn it is no problem. I thought just to ask :)19:30
SpeedEvilAh - OK - thought it was an english question.19:31
DrGrovI try to say: "Improvements and actions..." or would it be better with "Improvements and consequences..."19:31
DrGrovSpeedEvil: It is an English question but it has to be translated from Swedish into English for my final thesis.19:31
SpeedEvilThey mean different things.19:31
DrGrovYes, they do mean different things but how much difference would I need to put for the word "åtgärder" in Swedish when I translate it into English?19:32
SpeedEvilImprovements and actions is more neutral - improvements and consequences implies that there may be negative effects too.19:32
SpeedEvilNo clue on that.19:32
DrGrovSpeedEvil: Improvements and consequences in this case would then sound more appropriate due to the end result of the qualitative and quantitative research is not guaranteed to turn out positive.19:33
DocScrutinizerDrGrov: improvements and measures to take/taken19:34
DrGrovSpeedEvil: A big thanks for your kind help :) Ett stort tack!19:34
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Hi Doc. You feeling any better yet? I think your suggestion is fitting in really well in this case. SpeedEvil had also a good suggestions, it is hard to choose which one. :)19:35
SpeedEvilTranslation is always fun!19:35
DrGrovSpeedEvil: Was I correct that you are a "finlandssvensk"?19:35
alteregoI think "Improvements and considerations"19:35
alteregoBut that's just me ..19:35
SpeedEvilNo, I'm simply UK.19:36
DrGrovalterego: Ok, that sounds good as well. A third variation is always good to throw in the mix :)19:36
DrGrovSpeedEvil: Ok, I have been mistaken then. I do apologize, I do not know from where I got the idea that you are a bilingual Finn :)19:36
SpeedEvilAt some point you have to wonder how much thought the person put into picking the original words.19:36
alteregoProbably less than this ;)19:37
DocScrutinizerregarding "consequences" I suppose you fell for a false friend maybe: isn't conclusions the english word you meant?19:37
DrGrovSpeedEvil: It feels that the topic has to cover most parts of the actual qualitative and quantitative research I am conduting.19:37
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: It might be actually conclusions I am looking for. That would feel most appropriate when I translate it and think it in Swedish as well.19:38
alteregoOh, and there was me thinking it has something to do with "Inprovements and actions" :P19:41
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DrGrovThanks DocScrutinizer, alterego and SpeedEvil for your kind help :) I am getting it now, sounds like suggestions and conclusions is the way to go.19:41
alteregoI think just "Conclusions" ..19:42
DocScrutinizeror at very least "conclusions and suggestions" according to logic19:42
alteregoThen I'd say, "Conclusions and considerations" :)19:43
DrGrovDocScrutinizer: Yes, of course. The logical way.19:43
DocScrutinizeror that :-D19:43
alteregoWow, the heavens just openned up and it's hammering my sky light window ..19:43
DrGrovIt is "Conclusions and considerations", that is the final topic.19:44
alteregoCan't tell if it's hail or not ..19:44
DocScrutinizerDrGrov: (feeling better) not really, another day off at work19:45
alteregoDefinitely hail ...19:45
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itsnotabigtruckmankeli: i'm trying to compile the MOSH deps right now20:22
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itsnotabigtruckprotobuffers wants java to build20:26
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itsnotabigtruckok, hopefully i just hacked java out of the debian package20:32
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mankeliitsnotabigtruck: that's why i also tried build screen from scratch, since the debian package wants libpam0 and texinfo20:34
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: oh you do try to port mosh? nice, what about making client as well?20:41
ZogG_laptopbtw is there boost-dev for harmattan?20:41
itsnotabigtruckit seems not...20:42
itsnotabigtrucki'm working on protobuffers right now20:42
ZogG_laptopso if you build one for harmattan put it in public20:42
ZogG_laptopthere should be repo =)20:43
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: ^20:43
mankelithere is libboost41 or something similar20:44
mankeliat least it can be found from the repo thats configured in the harmattan sdk scratchbox20:45
mankeliand mosh builds happily with it20:45
ZogG_laptopmankeli: if you build it, when maybe you save itsnotabigtruck's time?20:47
itsnotabigtrucki'm trying to build it from debian source packages20:48
itsnotabigtruckfor boost, it sounds like i can tweak the build dep then20:49
mankeliZogG_laptop: i already did, but for some reason one of the packages i built malfed my phone. i haven't got chance to investigate it yet, but i'd rather not share the packages :)20:50
mankelisee conversation around 16:4x20:50
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rlinfatithe battery of my n950 is 0volt :( , i need buy a new battery ??21:05
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bef0rdya gano colombia22:45
itsnotabigtrucklet's see if this works22:50
bef0rdlol wrong channel22:51
bef0rdhi itsnotabigtruck22:52
mankelierm what22:53
mankelimy phone booted22:53
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mankelii booted it with n950 rescue kernel, backupped all partitions and after reboot it of course just went back into the malf-screen22:54
mankeliand it was there connected to usb for one or two hours (while i was downloading pr1.2 image for reflash) and then it suddenly asked for pin and booted to meegotouchhome22:55
itsnotabigtruckthat's strange22:58
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: get in the terminal and do accli -I22:58
mankelihow can i tell if i'm in open mode or not?22:58
itsnotabigtrucksee if it's in closed or open mode22:58
itsnotabigtruckif you're in closed mode, resign your restok.conf22:58
itsnotabigtruckusing opensh22:58
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mankeliall i did while in rescue mode, was that i removed that last "package: screen" from restok.conf22:59
mankelicurrent mode: open22:59
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mankelithis is behavior i was expecting after having booted the device with rescue kernel23:01
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mankeliis it common that the malf continues even in the open mode?23:01
jonniyes if you screw up restok.conf or reflashlist without resigning, malf will persist untill reflash of firmware.23:04
rlinfatithe battery of my n950 is 0volt :( , i need buy a new battery ??23:04
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jonnirlinfati: or just recharge, or if device doesnt start recharging you can always try external charger23:05
rlinfatithe n950 do not charge the battery :(23:05
rlinfatinow... i buy a charger or a new battery... ?23:05
jonniremove backcover and charge externally.23:05
jonnior how does it not charge, it does not show glowing white led?23:06
mankelijonni: i see, maybe the manual editing of restok.conf did the trick then. but why it did wait so long in malf screen?23:06
rlinfatithe white led is only on for 1 second and after off23:06
jonnimankeli: it malfs on next reboot23:06
rlinfatiwith a multitester  i verify the battery and show 0 volt23:07
jonnirlinfati: and your put your device in a state where it tries to charge and not be in reboot loop? with ./flasher -i  or similar command?23:07
rlinfatifhasher do not detect the n95023:08
itsnotabigtruck for some reason the package i just built on obs isn't showing up23:08
mankelijonni: i mean editing restok.conf while in rescue kernel23:08
jonniusually I just give 0volt batteries a initial charge for 10minutes from external charge23:08
jonnicharger and after that n950 manages to charge just fine.23:08
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: how did you solve the perl problem?23:08
jonnimankeli: are you in pr1.1 or pr1.223:09
rlinfatiok, tomorrow buy a external charger23:09
jonniof your in pr1.2 then rescure kernel itself triggers openmode23:09
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: the perl problem? for which package23:09
itsnotabigtrucki'm expecting a build dependency of mosh to show up there23:09
petterihow do I check battery status from command on N923:09
itsnotabigtruckprotobuf is finishing up right now23:10
itsnotabigtruckfor some reason skalibs wants to read a bunch of data from /dev/random during its build :/23:10
itsnotabigtrucki wonder if it's doing something like int random() { return 4; /* chosen by fair dice roll. */ } :p23:11
jonnirlinfati: or use some other nokia phone with the same kind of battery?23:12
mankelijonni: pr1.223:12
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: mosh has two binaries and a startup perl script which requires io::pty23:13
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: might it be possible to toss the relevant perl script into a build?23:14
jonnirlinfati: these are pretty usefull and cheap
jonnithats handy since it fits almost all sizes of batterys, I've used that one quite often23:15
jonnias it has moving spring it charges different sizes23:15
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rlinfatii can boot the n950 ( with other battery ) and swap the battery on cold ?23:16
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: i just tossed the perl module into obs too23:16
itsnotabigtruckdh-autoreconf requires a libtool that's too new23:20
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HAMIDx9friends , what is the location of rootfs at /dev for creating a backup with dd ?23:29
itsnotabigtruckdoes N9 have /var/log/utmp / btmp / wtmp?23:35
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9: try doing mount23:35
HAMIDx9none of them !23:36
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: how important is skalibs to building mosh23:36
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9: ok cool, so i can get rid of that dependency with impunity23:37
HAMIDx9itsnotabigtruck: mount what ?23:38
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HAMIDx9when i try to repack rootfs.jffs223:39
HAMIDx9its size 22 MB larger that orig !23:39
HAMIDx9and i cant flash it !23:39
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9: just run mount23:40
itsnotabigtruckalso, i gave you a brief overview of the process in pm already23:40
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itsnotabigtruckyou probably aren't doing it correctly, but you should rethink whether you really want to cook an image23:40
itsnotabigtruckit's ok if the size is a little different after sparsifying23:41
itsnotabigtruckit's not ok if the size is different before sparsifying23:41
HAMIDx922 MB !23:41
HAMIDx9not cooking a complete image23:41
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: ping23:41
HAMIDx9i think i can create a rootfs.img from my n923:41
HAMIDx9and flash it23:42
HAMIDx9thanks about mount -> /dev/root23:42
itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9: what, exactly, are you doing to repack the image23:42
itsnotabigtruckand how did you build the original image23:42
itsnotabigtruckthe image needs to be an ext4 filesystem of the exact same length as the partition on the N923:43
itsnotabigtruckto the byte23:43
itsnotabigtruckthe SPARSIFIED image however can be all sorts of sizes depending on how it was created and what's in it23:43
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: not very? at least i didn't have any package with that name23:43
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itsnotabigtruckmankeli: it's a dependency of the debian package23:43
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HAMIDx9itsnotabigtruck: first unpack the orig bin DF...23:44
HAMIDx9and then unlzo rootfs.jffs223:44
HAMIDx9then mount rootfs and23:44
mankeliitsnotabigtruck: i don't have skalibs installed in scratchbox, and mosh happily compiled without23:44
HAMIDx9create a text file at /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/01proxy23:44
jonnianyways you cannot edit and reflash, without malf as checksums wouldnt match :)23:44
HAMIDx9and sparsifying23:45
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mankeliitsnotabigtruck: my package Depends: libc6 (>= 2.7), libgcc1 (>= 1:4.1.1), libncurses5 (>= 5.7-1), libstdc++6 (>= 4.4.0), protobuf1, zlib1g (>= 1:1.1.4)23:45
HAMIDx9so there is no way to flash just a rootfs ? same as n900 ?23:45
mankeliprotobuf1 is the self-packaged protobuf, others are from repo23:45
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itsnotabigtruckwatch that space23:48
HAMIDx9also it seems n950 rescue-img doesnt work on n9 16 GB !23:49
itsnotabigtruckjonni: well, you can make trivial edits23:49
itsnotabigtruckor you can flash an image with files.tcb signatures made on your particular phone23:49
itsnotabigtruckit has its uses23:49
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itsnotabigtruckHAMIDx9: ok, so now you need to embed the rootfs image into a fiasco with the correct layout file23:50
itsnotabigtruckbut i gotta run23:50
itsnotabigtruckbe careful, you could do some really strange things to your phone if you make a mistake23:50
jonniwell it depends on trivial edits, if inode changes on on protected file during reflash it can cause malf.23:50
HAMIDx9itsnotabigtruck: also mount shows to me /dev/root but it does not exist23:51
jonniand your on openmode anyways, so its just easier to make tar file and extract that to root23:51
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mankeliitsnotabigtruck: nice kernel panic23:53
HAMIDx9if i try to create a tar of / in n9 it packs all such as /home /home/user/MyDoc and ... , right ?23:55
HAMIDx9anyway to just tar rootfs ?23:55
jonniyou need to add excludepaths23:56
HAMIDx9so there is no /dev/XXX for creating a img with dd in n9 , right ?23:57

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