IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2012-04-06

Anssi138does this work: /sbin/initctl start ssh00:01
Anssi138i don't have device here.00:01
kuenxIt said 'ssh start/running, process 4015'. But ps shows nothing00:03
Anssi138you can try connecting locally.00:03
kuenxI might have messed some things things up when following tutorials on how to get SSH access to work again00:04
kuenxyou mean ssh to
Anssi138ye, or localhost.00:04
kuenxconnection refused as root00:04
kuenxalso as user00:05
Anssi138you can start the developer mode and try with that developer user.00:05
Anssi138that should work00:05
kuenxnope, developer user also refuses connection00:06
kuenxdeveloper mode is on00:06
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itsnotabigtruckthere's some major weirdness related to developer-mode turning ssh on and off00:06
itsnotabigtruckif you install openssh-server, it enables ssh00:06
itsnotabigtruckthen if you install developer-mode it stays enabled00:07
itsnotabigtruckthen if you remove it, it turns it back off00:07
itsnotabigtruckand so on00:07
kuenxitsnotabigtruck: Can I just install openssh-server with apt from the nokia repo?00:08
Anssi138there are developer mode start&stop scripts somewhere. those are probably not most robust.00:08
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Anssi138kuenx: so the ssh server is not running? ps -ef | grep ssh00:09
itsnotabigtruckkuenx: yeah00:09
itsnotabigtruckyou can install all the dev mode stuff individually00:09
itsnotabigtruckthe catch-22 is that it's tricky to do so if dev mode isn't already on00:09
jabiswith developer mode on devel-su - and passwd user / passwd developr to enable logon00:09
jabis*developer even00:10
kuenxitsnotabigtruck: openssh-server was already installed00:10
itsnotabigtruckthat wasn't all that related00:11
itsnotabigtruckbut there's all sorts of ways it can go fubar00:11
jabisif you don't set the environment with suffix - with devel-su your root commands won't actually work on most occasions00:12
jabislike starting / stopping daemons etc00:12
kuenx*should* developer SSH access work out of the box with a fresh PR1.2?00:13
itsnotabigtruckjabis: well, that just has to do with the path, right00:13
itsnotabigtruckkuenx: as long as you flipped the developer mode switch on, yeah00:13
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itsnotabigtruckand use the password from the sdk connectivity tool00:13
jabisenv variables and paths yes00:13
itsnotabigtruckjabis: if you ssh in, /sbin is in the path by default00:14
itsnotabigtruckand /usr/sbin00:14
itsnotabigtruckbut it's not with meego terminal00:14
kuenxitsnotabigtruck: ok, I will try to re-flash and see if it works. Then maybe try to enable SSH for user after I got it to work00:15
itsnotabigtruckkuenx: weird00:16
kuenxThanks so much for helping everyone. But I think I might have messed up some of the startup scripts when following the numerous 'how to enable ssh' threads without undoing first00:17
jabisI just reflashed one 16gb one with 1.2 and developer mode came working about out of the box00:17
kuenxjabis: good news. I'll do that00:17
itsnotabigtruckalso, just log in as developer00:18
itsnotabigtruckno need to set a pass on user00:18
itsnotabigtruckyou can use devel-su to become user if the need be00:18
itsnotabigtruckthis ought to work: devel-su -c 'devel-su -s /bin/develsh user -'00:18
kuenxdevel-su is to become root, isn't it?00:18
itsnotabigtruck(use root password)00:19
kuenxI got to go00:19
kuenxThanks so much00:19
kuenxI'll be hanging in here once I got my dev setup working00:20
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mankeliitsnotabigtruck: yeah, it needs that fuse-utils. but the problem is that harmattan-dev only has fuse-utils 2.8.5maemo5+0m6, but device has libfuse2 2.8.6maemo5+0m7 which is a no-no for that libfuse package01:18
mankeliand of course i have inception :-)01:19
mankeliof course i could try patching the fuse-utils package to install with newer libfuse2 and cross my fingers that the ABI hasn't changed01:21
mankelibut it's little bit too dirty01:21
mankeliit would be a temporary fix01:23
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: are you sure they have to match01:24
itsnotabigtruckanyway, if you have scratchbox, grab the fuse source package from the pr1.2 source iso01:24
itsnotabigtruckand build that with dpkg-buildpackage01:24
itsnotabigtruckthat'll spit out all the debs for fuse, presumably including fuse-utils then01:25
mankelihaven't set up scratchbox yet01:28
mankelialtho i should. that madde stuff is kinda awful01:28
mankeliwhat is pr1.2 source iso?01:28
mankeliand that fuse-utils package has libfuse (= 2.8.5maemo5+0m6) in dependencies01:34
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itsnotabigtruckmankeli: nokia refuses to distribute the gpl-mandated source code through a convenient method, so they send it out on DVDs via snail mail01:40
itsnotabigtruckwhich then get requested by people, imaged, and uploaded01:40
itsnotabigtruckit's often the only way to get updated packages that are in sync with anything newer than pr1.001:40
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mankelioh nice!01:42
mankelii found some big pr1.2 source archive from piratebay, but this is much nicer01:43
itsnotabigtruckonce you download it, if you could make a torrent out of it that would be awesome01:43
itsnotabigtrucki can't seed because i'm behind a nat i don't control01:43
mankeliwhy nokia doesn't distribute that themselves?01:43
itsnotabigtrucki tried to promote making a torrent before but no one can be arsed with such a thing :(01:47
itsnotabigtruckmostly because it seems for a lot of people here torrents = piracy and piracy = evil01:47
itsnotabigtruckand as for distributing themselves, who knows why01:47
mankeliyeah, torrents have gained such a reputation01:48
itsnotabigtruckeverything about the SDK side of things with harmattan is ass backwards01:48
mankeliwhich is annoying01:48
itsnotabigtrucka number of people inside and outside of nokia are pissed off with them01:48
itsnotabigtruckapparently they had staff cuts early on but that doesn't excuse how backwards the whole arrangement is01:48
mankeliwhat01:48 what's going on in there?01:49
mankelithat fuse package in pr1.2 dvd seems to contain also fuse-utils. weird that they don't have it in their own repo01:50
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mankelisince they have libfuse2 which is built from that same source package01:51
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wookhey folks, what's last kernel for n950?01:51
wookm6 or m7?01:51
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itsnotabigtruckwook: m701:54
itsnotabigtruckN9 and N950 use the same kernel01:55
wookwhere to get m7? :| all i could find was m6 (OneClickFlasher)01:55
itsnotabigtruckwook: what are you trying to do01:56
wookmess around :D01:56
itsnotabigtruckbut (if it's not classified) what are you trying to get at doing01:56
itsnotabigtruckfirst, the +0m7 suffix is just something nokia's build system does01:56
mankelijavispedro: thanks, i'm browsing that but also downloading the .iso01:56
itsnotabigtruckbut the kernel that ends with +0m7 belongs to PR1.201:57
itsnotabigtruckso if you just want to get that kernel, you should upgrade your entire N950 to PR1.2beta01:57
itsnotabigtruckwhich is the latest released for N95001:57
wookyes, i know that01:57
wookbut where to get beta pr?01:57
itsnotabigtruckit's on the website01:57
javispedromankeli: but you can put that into your sources.list and then use apt-get source to download01:57
itsnotabigtruckjust google it, you'll have no trouble finding it01:58
Tronicitsnotabigtruck: I can create a torrent, seed and post to TPB.01:58
itsnotabigtruckTronic: that would be awesome01:58
itsnotabigtruckprobably best off doing the N9 one which is slightly newer01:58
wookaaargh :D01:58
Tronicitsnotabigtruck: Need to have the files + description because I have no clue and no time/interest to figure it out myself.01:58
itsnotabigtrucki.e. this one
TronicShould I package the .ISO or the contents of it?01:59
itsnotabigtruckgood question, i'd say do the iso01:59
wookitsnotabigtruck, mind if i msg?01:59
itsnotabigtruckdefinitely don't do it like the old torrent, which had all the filenames mangled into 8.3 frormat01:59
itsnotabigtruckwook: yeah, don't ask, just do it01:59
TronicIs it a bootable image or something? If plain files, I suppose the files themselves would be preferred.01:59
itsnotabigtruckTronic: it's a whole bunch of DSC and TAR.GZ files, not bootable01:59
itsnotabigtruckpublishing the whole thing forces people to download the whole thing en bloc and therefore be able to seed properly02:00
TronicThat's not really an issue.02:00
TronicPeople generally download entire torrents, especially if they are going to stay around seeding it, anyway.02:01
Tronic... but it sucks having to unpack stuff after downloading.02:01
TronicSome (scene) idiots even post rars or zipped rars within torrents instead of the extracted contents.02:01
TronicSo, what should I write in torrent description?02:02
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Tronic3 minutes to finish download.02:03
mankelijavispedro: i don't have scratchbox installed02:06
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itsnotabigtruckTronic: /me shrugs02:10
itsnotabigtruckNokia N9 Public Source Code - PR1.2 (30.blahblah)02:10
itsnotabigtruck+ a blurb about it being useful for developers02:10
itsnotabigtruckUse Harmattan Platform SDK <> to build packages.02:11
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villagerhmm, I just booted up my n950 after something like half a year (been too busy), but it doesn't seem to be any obvious way to upgrade it to pr1.202:20
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villagergrbl, took a lot of googling to find anything newer than pr1.102:26
itsnotabigtruckvillager: it's not that hard to find :p02:36
itsnotabigtruckbut yeah, you want the PR1.2 beta02:36
itsnotabigtruckthat's the latest public n950 firmware02:36
* javispedro feels the need to enter the arcane world of Xlib again02:40
TronicTPB is being a little slow today (nothing new).02:41
TronicPerhaps it also dislikes adding the full file list to torrent description.02:42
villageritsnotabigtruck: seems to be for me... the front page only links to pr1.1, and very few google results point to anything other than "it's here!" articles or the pr1.1 page02:57
villagerbut I found it at last I guess02:57
itsnotabigtruckTronic: putting the full file list in the description?02:57
itsnotabigtruckthere's hundreds of files :O02:57
itsnotabigtruckif the user wants to find the file list they can grab the torrent and view it02:58
villageritsnotabigtruck: but I didn't see any pr1.2 beta, I'm flashing the regular pr1.2 image for n95003:00
itsnotabigtruckvillager: the only one that's available is the beta...but it's almost identical to the final 1.203:01
itsnotabigtruckthe beta is 2012-W02-603:02
itsnotabigtruckfinal is 2012-W07-103:02
Tronicitsnotabigtruck: People may google for individual packages and so they could find TPB. But torrent search engines will display those lists anyway...03:05
villagerthe page says nothing about beta, just Harmattan 1.2 (3.2012.02-6, released 2012-01-25)... file name seems to be Linux_OCF_02-6_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin03:06
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itsnotabigtruck@everyone if you can, seed it!03:08
villagerI'm not sure how to do that... would I download the file from that url first?03:12
SpeedEvilDoenload the few tens of K torrent file.03:13
SpeedEvilThen point your favourite torrent client at it03:14
villager(otherwise my computer has 24/7 connectivity with high-speed cable connection so seeding is no problem)03:14
merlin1991itsnotabigtruck: eh why do you need seeds for that03:15
merlin1991it's on docs server, here aswell:
villagerSpeedEvil: yeah but when I looked at that page, nobody else had that file, so I thought the torrent client wouldn't be able to get it03:16
villagerlooks like now someone else is seeding though03:16
villagernot downloading, though, so perhaps that url is still a better idea? or?03:17
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merlin1991hm  seems that that file is actually newer03:18
villageroh well, who cares, I'll just leave the torrent client up for fun03:18
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TronicA lot of peers connecting, no-one is downloading anything. I wonder WTF.03:20
SpeedEvilYou don't have the parts they want.03:20
TronicTested myself that downloading to another host works.03:20
TronicUmmh, I seeding.03:21
Tronic*I am03:21
sahib_0 bytes so far, download doesn't seem to take off for some reason...03:21
Tronic4.0 MB uploaded (to my other server)03:22
xXxdevilxXxbut why are u guys torrenting?03:23
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: thanks for stopping that piratebay madness03:23
xXxdevilxXxbetter to place it onto some really fast shell or something like that03:23
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xXxdevilxXxslice it into parts....03:23
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: when did this iso come out?03:24
DocScrutinizerwhich one?03:24
merlin1991the pr1.203:25
DocScrutinizerbtw "come out" is not the right term here, both ISO are from people who received DVD from Nokia03:25
merlin1991yea, but you get what I mean :D03:26
DocScrutinizerand the filename is what I got told was either written on the disk or the actual name of the disk or files on it03:26
TronicSwitched qBittorrent to Transmission, now seeding is actually working.03:27
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: well, the idea is to have something more redundant03:28
TronicAlbeit, only 40 kB/s upload rate at the moment. You guys must have super slow Internet connections or there is some problem...03:28
itsnotabigtruckand torrents are great for any sort of large file03:29
itsnotabigtruckit's good to counteract the perception that they're only for large pirate files03:29
TronicAlso great for transferring directory trees.03:29
DocScrutinizerbut WTF do you need to refer to a piratebay URL to point others to a particular file?03:29
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: well, one could copy-paste the magnet uri03:29
itsnotabigtruckbesides, what's so bad about the pirate bay03:29
itsnotabigtruckit's a site, it is what you use it for03:30
TronicDocScrutinizer: What's wrong with using a TPB URL?03:30
merlin1991itsnotabigtruck: because there are http hosts for this03:30
merlin1991no need for torrents03:30
merlin1991it's on docs host, mine, and possibly others aswell03:30
DocScrutinizerTPB comsidered highly illegal03:30
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: but torrents can be faster and don't have a single point of failure03:30
DocScrutinizerso I prefer it's not mentioned in this chan03:30
merlin1991well beat my or docs upload and also 2 points isn't single point ;)03:31
TronicBesides, you could always use
DocScrutinizeranyway, if you get any less than full speed of what *your* downstream allows when DL the file from my server, PRETTY PLEASE let me know!03:32
TronicSo, unless you want also Google not being mentioned on this channel, I don't really get the point.03:32
itsnotabigtruckit's not considered highly legal whereever it's being hosted now :p03:32
itsnotabigtrucker, highly illegal03:32
DocScrutinizerTronic: you already got the point03:32
itsnotabigtrucklike i said before, it is what you do with it03:33
itsnotabigtruckin this case what you do with it is redistribute a legit iso03:33
itsnotabigtruckso yeah03:33
DocScrutinizeryou don't want to understand that TPB is not the right URL to refer to legal torrents? OK, I define TPB URLs a ban'able word in this chan03:34
DocScrutinizerfind a better way! Tronic already used one, even to point to an "illegal" torrent03:35
xXxdevilxXxguys, what's the problem?03:36
xXxdevilxXxisn't it better to slice iso into .zips and upload it like that?03:36
DocScrutinizerI'm all for torrents (though not really needed here) - I don't like that particular site/URL used in any context here03:36
xXxdevilxXxthe pirate bay is not illegal thing, and don't have anything to do with illegal things...03:37
DocScrutinizermaybe in your book03:38
* virtuald gets the popcorn03:38
xXxdevilxXxsue them for illegality...03:38
DocScrutinizerno, I rather kick you. Way simpler and more direct action. I don't mind what they do, I mind what is done in this channel. If you don't get that, you're a basket03:40
xXxdevilxXxowh, i will be soooooooo, soooo hurt if you kick me out03:40
itsnotabigtruckand i'd rather you not get so worked up all the time03:40
itsnotabigtruck(and everyone else too, sheesh)03:40
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DocScrutinizerI'm completely relaxed03:41
itsnotabigtruckit's quite apparent >_>03:41
DocScrutinizerjust a bit astonished about some people's lack of understanding simple contexts03:42
DocScrutinizerchanop says: torrent OK, particular URL not OK. period.03:43
DocScrutinizerno further discussion needed03:43
DocScrutinizerjust to remind you: there are IRC policies that forbid posting ANY URL. Not that I'd even consider to apply such policy here03:44
wookomG, lol, dude, where's your power off button? :D03:46
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: didn't see that one03:48
merlin1991is it a freenode policy?03:48
DocScrutinizerone a number of chan, yes03:48
DocScrutinizervirtuald: is this any related?03:49
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DocScrutinizerif yes, then please give some context explaining what we will see when we bother to look at that URL. If not then please explain why you're going OT03:49
virtualdyes. this is oolong. he balances stuff on his head.03:49
DocScrutinizerok, thanks. So I don't have to visit that page, just to learn I'm not interested in it03:50
virtualdlighten up, everyone loves cut animals.03:51
virtualdcute animals. :D03:52
DocScrutinizeri love cut animal and to cut animals ;-)03:53
virtualdsome may prefer them cut but that's just nasty03:53
DocScrutinizerat least when it's some 250g from Argentina, medium03:53
GeneralAntillesI haven't had a good steak in a while.03:55
DocScrutinizerthough my friend Werner Almesberger thinks I'm a sissy, real men don't do it under 500g. He should know, he lives in Argentina ;-D03:56
GeneralAntillesEat until you're comfortably full.03:57
GeneralAntillesEat too much and you're just ruining the experience.03:57
DocScrutinizer:-D indeed03:58
virtualdi used to be the one saying stuff like that. it's not an argument.03:58
virtualdso lets all grep hands around the campfibre and sing we shall overcome04:00
TronicDocScrutinizer: I just cooked beef fillet pepper steaks with friends a few hours ago. I think I ate almost half a kilo, all medium minus :)04:01
TronicFinnish, though, not Argentinan.04:01
TronicSo good :)04:02
virtualdbeef is like 98% human04:08
virtualdeat me04:09
javispedroman, I want to visit Finland some day04:11
javispedro(totally unrelated comment of the day ;) )04:11
merlin1991yep finland is on my to visit list aswell :)04:13
itsnotabigtruck :/04:14
javispedroso please shutdown your personal tracking devices04:14
javispedroyou know, before the N900, I was pretty much a cell phone free person :(04:15
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itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: in this case the revelation is that the cell phone companies supply the info warrant or not, for a fee04:17
javispedroeven worse =(04:17
javispedroin any case, it's starting to become somewhat of an habit that every move towards privacy produces an equal opposite reaction04:19
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javispedroitsnotabigtruck: you were complaining about glue? :) I had to add 11k lines of code for some kind of weird Xlib glue I still don't fully understand04:41
javispedroTHAT is arcane =)04:42
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: hah04:45
itsnotabigtruckyeah, i don't think i've heard anything good about xlib at all04:45
itsnotabigtruckisn't there a more modern wrapper api for it though04:46
itsnotabigtruckcan't you use that?04:46
javispedrosadly not :(04:46
javispedrothey have not yet rewritten "this" part on top of xcb04:47
itsnotabigtruckah :(04:47
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: hmmm...looking that up, might you be able to ditch XIM and go with SCIM or one of the other new shiny replacements for it04:53
javispedroSCIM is on top of XIM04:53
javispedro(the 11k lines of glue come from them =) )04:53
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: but isn't that in the library? so that doesn't count as your glue code04:54
javispedroGood question, but I just looked and they do not export those symbols seemingly04:56
javispedroin any case the glue was in .a very nicely apart (Ximdkit), so not complaining04:56
javispedrooh (  ) =)04:57
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itsnotabigtrucksigmaorion: did flashing your phone go OK?05:26
itsnotabigtruckand did you get inception?05:26
sigmaorionitsnotabigtruck, thank you for asking05:26
sigmaorionI had no time at all and now I'm just about to flash it!05:26
sigmaorionjust waiting for the battery level to raise over about 50%05:27
itsnotabigtruckoh lol :p05:27
sigmaorionafter flashing it I will try to incept it05:27
sigmaorionso, now that we are talking about it... any advice before flashing? lol!05:28
itsnotabigtruckwell, just make sure you back up all your stuff :p05:28
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sigmaorionyeap, done!05:29
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itsnotabigtruckapparently the built in backup doesn't back up sms and a bunch of people have been bit by that05:29
itsnotabigtruckoh, and remember to flash with 001 so you get pr1.3 right off the bat05:30
sigmaorionwhy would the backup app backup sms? I wouldnt expect it to do it...05:30
itsnotabigtruckwhy wouldn't it, it's user data05:31
sigmaorionis there a 1.3 release??05:31
itsnotabigtruckyeah, the one that comes after pr1.2 :p05:31
itsnotabigtruckit isn't out yet05:31
sigmaorionoooh, I thought it was already out! lol!05:31
itsnotabigtruckit's being worked on, no idea when it's actually coming out but the word on the street is that it's close05:31
sigmaorionand what new stuff will it bring?05:32
itsnotabigtrucknot much, fix bugs mostly05:32
sigmaorionoh, ok... is PR1.2 too buggy?05:32
itsnotabigtruckand you'll want to wait for my inception patch05:32
sigmaorionsure I will!05:32
itsnotabigtruckit's no buggier than pr1.1, generally05:32
sigmaorionit's good, then05:33
sigmaorionI didn't find many bugs in pr1.105:33
itsnotabigtruckthere's quite a few...but not everyone runs into them05:33
sigmaorionnot that I've been looking for them anyway05:33
sigmaorionyeah, I didn't, lol!05:33
itsnotabigtruckone thing to be advised of, don't put in your apt repositories05:34
itsnotabigtruckor any other unsigned apt repos05:34
sigmaorionI know that I've found a couple, but they were not important at all and didn't bother me too much, so I can't remember them05:34
itsnotabigtruckpr1.2 broke those05:34
itsnotabigtruckalso, don't try booting the 'rescue kernel' on pr1.2 unless you're using open mode to begin with05:34
itsnotabigtruckif you boot into open mode once you do so every time until a reflash, starting with pr1.205:34
sigmaorionrescue kernel? I dont even know what it is, lol!05:34
itsnotabigtruckthen you shouldn't need to worry05:35
sigmaorionbut just curious...05:35
sigmaorionwhat is that thing?05:35
itsnotabigtruckit's a kernel that makes your rootfs a mass storage device05:35
itsnotabigtruckso you can unscrew your N9 without reflashing05:35
itsnotabigtruckbut booting it puts you into open mode, and that means you need to reflash anyway much of the time05:36
sigmaorionif I had enough time I could have serious fun!05:36
itsnotabigtruckbefore pr1.2 you could boot back out of open mode and all was well05:36
sigmaorionwhat is to put you into open mode?05:36
itsnotabigtruckalso it doesn't seem to work consistently so that's a problem too05:36
itsnotabigtruckopen mode = what you go into when you boot something untrusted05:37
itsnotabigtruckit displays a rather scary warning and locks out some aegis-related stuff05:37
itsnotabigtruckhowever it also lets you get around aegis without inception05:37
itsnotabigtruckbut inception is a lot more convenient than open mode05:37
sigmaorionI see...05:37
sigmaorionthanks for your advices!!05:38
sigmaorionwhere can I read about all that stuff?05:38
sigmaorionI have time to read when I'm in my travel to work and back (1 hour travel by bus in each direction)05:38
itsnotabigtruckmost of it's scattered around in various places on tmo05:38
sigmaorionI'd like to do some reading about low level details05:39
sigmaorionI mean, starting from N9s' hardware to its OS details05:39
sigmaorionso that I can really understand05:39
itsnotabigtruckwell, there's no one place to find that info05:40
sigmaorionbut it's all there scattered...05:41
sigmaorionitsnotabigtruck, write a book!!! lol!05:41
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itsnotabigtrucki mean, what actual sort of info are you looking for05:41
sigmaorionnot really sure, actually05:41
itsnotabigtrucklike if you're writing an app and need some help in a particular area i could point you in the right direction (maybe)05:42
sigmaorionlet me try to explain...05:42
itsnotabigtruckotherwise it's kinda hard to help05:42
sigmaorionI have used Linux for years in PCs and I have a good idea of PCs hardware, so I have read about Linux kernel, and so on...05:43
sigmaorionso, I can have a big picture about how a Linux runs on a PC05:43
sigmaorionwhen I come to the N9, there are a lot of differences05:43
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itsnotabigtrucknot as many as one might think, besides the usual embedded stuff05:44
sigmaorionstart with the bootloader, for example05:44
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sigmaorionI have no idea on how it works, and which one is it... is it closed, open source?05:44
itsnotabigtruckwhat about it? it's closed05:44
itsnotabigtruckit does the usual bootloader stuff and loads the kernel05:45
itsnotabigtruckwhich is stored on its own NAND partition, not in /boot05:45
itsnotabigtruckit's some nokia proprietary thing called nolo05:45
itsnotabigtrucknot like uboot or redboot or whatever05:45
sigmaorionhave never heard about it05:45
itsnotabigtruckyeah, Nokia Omap LOader05:45
itsnotabigtruckor maybe NOkia LOader05:45
itsnotabigtruckthat's because only maemo devices use it05:46
sigmaorionand then, the aegis stuff...05:46
sigmaorionI have no idea of how that works, lol!05:46
sigmaorionanyway, Nokia gives out a lot of information about it05:46
itsnotabigtruckhow it works, or how to use it05:46
itsnotabigtruckthere's some decent info on the nokia site, though it's very opaque if you don't already know about it05:47
sigmaorionyeap, exactly!05:47
sigmaorionif you don't already know about it, it's hard to start...05:47
sigmaorionthat is what exactly happened to me05:47
sigmaorionI read a little bit and stoped05:47
itsnotabigtruckthis one is OK05:48
sigmaorionbut I was asking beacuse, maybe, there was one place to read about everything05:48
itsnotabigtrucki've had it in the back of my head to try writing a wiki page or something but that sort of thing takes a long time05:49
sigmaorionyeap, I guess there was where I started reading05:49
sigmaorionthat's a lot of work!!!05:49
itsnotabigtruckthe basic concept is fairly simple, really05:49
itsnotabigtruckon linux, most people think in terms of root or not root, but there's actually a lot of gradations in between05:49
itsnotabigtruckbecause of linux capabilities05:50
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itsnotabigtruckeach capability represents a power of the root user05:50
itsnotabigtruckthe idea is that it's possible to give an app only a subset of root powers to keep things secure05:50
itsnotabigtruckhowever on normal linux it isn't used much05:50
sigmaorionyeap, I never used it in my PC05:51
sigmaorionnot seen it much around05:51
itsnotabigtruckthe major part of aegis is a scheme for assigning those capabilities05:51
itsnotabigtruckand deciding which capabilities should be assigned based on the "manifest" in the .deb05:51
sigmaorionbut how would you assign those "privileges" to your app?05:51
itsnotabigtruckit can assign some other stuff besides capabilities, too05:51
itsnotabigtruckyou write an xml file and put it at debian/packagename.aegis before you build your package05:52
itsnotabigtruckwell, that's how you do it if you build the debian package the traditional way, it's different if you use qt creator or other things05:52
sigmaorionand what is you cross-compile an app and just want to copy the exacutable to /bin, for example05:53
itsnotabigtruckhowever, the major problem with aegis is that instead of giving the power to the people, it mostly exists to protect the user from the phone05:53
itsnotabigtrucker, whoops05:53
itsnotabigtruckprotect the phone from the user05:53
itsnotabigtruckrather than protect the user from badguys05:53
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sigmaorionlol!!! everybody would be afraid of their own phone!05:54
itsnotabigtruckanyway, as a consequence of that it doesn't let you just request any privilege you want05:54
itsnotabigtruckwhat inception does is give you a way to install an app that does let it just request any privilege it wants05:54
sigmaorionof course you must know exactly what you are installing05:54
itsnotabigtruckright, which is why you shouldn't incept indiscriminately05:55
itsnotabigtruckbut it's not that much of a risk05:55
sigmaorionanyway, are there really dangerous apps around for harmattan?05:55
itsnotabigtruckno, not really05:55
itsnotabigtrucka few store apps have ads in them, that's about the upper bound of questionable apps05:55
sigmaorionbesides, I don't have any secret information in my phone, hehe05:56
itsnotabigtruckand those aren't the sort of thing that needs inception05:56
itsnotabigtruckit's a much greater risk that somebody might put together a poorly made package that screws up your phone05:56
itsnotabigtruckthat was not that uncommon with N90005:56
itsnotabigtrucklots of amateurs who didn't know that much about debian packaging05:56
itsnotabigtruckbut that hasn't really happened that often05:56
sigmaorionyeap... but, if I'm installing non official stuff in my phone, I'm ready to flash, just in case!05:57
itsnotabigtruckyep. so anyway, that's pretty much what aegis is all about05:57
itsnotabigtruck- determine whether a package is allowed to ask for the privilege05:58
itsnotabigtruck- store the privileges that were asked for05:58
sigmaorionand talking about being ready to flash, my phone is pretty close to 100%05:58
itsnotabigtruck- when the app is run, activate those privileges05:58
sigmaorion(my wife's calling for diner!! I'll be back in half an hour!)05:58
sigmaorioncya later!05:59
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* sigmaorion is flashing pr1.2 at this very moment07:56
* sigmaorion is already enjoying!08:00
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itsnotabigtrucksigmaorion: cool08:02
sigmaorionyeap!! changing to english... I hate translations!08:04
sigmaorionit was pretty fast to flah a 1GB image!!!08:04
sigmaorionand it kept my emails accounts and inboxes!!!!08:08
sigmaorionit rocks!!08:08
sigmaorionwell, gotta go to bed...08:23
sigmaorionsee you, itsnotabigtrack08:24
sigmaorionmany thanks for your advices and your flashing guide!08:24
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auenfawesome, mail doesnt open since updating to PR1.208:29
itsnotabigtruckauenf: congratulations, you just ran into one of the many problems with doing the SSU instead of flashing08:34
itsnotabigtruckthe "ota upgrade" is called an ssu08:34
auenfok, i cant access the settings of some accounts08:35
auenfso that seems to be the issue08:35
auenfhmm, how can i remove accounts :/08:36
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mankeliitsnotabigtruck: oh right! i installed scratchbox, compiled fuse with it. then I noticed that my opensh wasn't incepted properly. but after re-installing few pkgs, sshfs is now working! thank you very much for help09:55
itsnotabigtruckmankeli: yay09:55
itsnotabigtruckwe desperately need a solution for distributing those sorts of packages09:56
itsnotabigtrucki was going to write an autobuilder script for mohammadag but never ended up doing so09:56
itsnotabigtruckthat would build all the source packages09:56
mankeliit would be quite great09:57
itsnotabigtruckit's a slightly complex problem because of the need to ensure that the packages don't come out with weird tainted dependencies09:57
mankeliespecially if mohammadag is willing to donate his storage and bandwidth for such a cause09:57
itsnotabigtruckthe idea was to write a script that would process the source package info, build a graph, toposort it, then execute a build on each one then install it09:58
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mankelishouldn't the dependencies be more-or-less right already in those source tarballs?09:58
itsnotabigtruckso, not that bad in python but rather tricky09:58
itsnotabigtruckwell, first, you want everything to be built with up to date headers09:59
itsnotabigtruckand second, debian tries to auto-detect binary dependency version numbers09:59
itsnotabigtruckin theory the binary dependency versions should end up the same09:59
itsnotabigtruckoften using older dependencies in the build = different dependency versions10:00
mankeliso...because harmattan sdk sb has older versions of some packages dpkg-buildpackage would create packages with wrong dependencies?10:00
itsnotabigtruckat least wrong if whatever is shipped originally is right10:02
itsnotabigtruckneeding to do this whole exercise is ridiculous10:02
itsnotabigtrucknokia already has repos with the proper sdk packages, they just refuse to release them10:02
itsnotabigtruckthey've just completely neglected the public sdk repo10:02
itsnotabigtruckpart of the idea is to force people to write backwards compatible apps for ovi store10:03
itsnotabigtruckand to be fair, due to that auto version detection thing i mentioned above, building against some packages in an up to date sdk will prevent installing in an os version older than the sdk10:03
itsnotabigtruckfor example, some of the nokia people were compiling their apps with the pr1.3 sdk which broke installing on pr1.210:03
itsnotabigtrucksimply because of the dependency versions that the debian tools put in10:04
mankelii guess it's kinda ok that debian autodetects the versions, since if eg. library api is different in older version of some dependency, it wouldn't work anyway10:05
mankelior am I misunderstanding completely10:05
itsnotabigtruckwell, yeah, it's a good thing, in theory10:06
itsnotabigtruckbut it's fussy and a lot of packages seem to ship with incorrect version detection info10:06
itsnotabigtruckso you end up with noise10:06
itsnotabigtrucklike the qt packages just end up making a dependency on whatever you built with or newer10:06
mankeliI see10:07
mankelii wonder if they are going to update the public sdk repos when 1.3 arrives if that's the "final version"10:08
itsnotabigtrucki hope, but i'm not counting on it10:08
jonniupdate is quite likely, but nobody has even yet confirmed that there will be even pr1.3 coming :)10:11
itsnotabigtruckjonni: but a proper update, or what they did with pr1.210:13
itsnotabigtruckwith pr1.2 they added something like 5 packages10:13
itsnotabigtruckand only ones they backported to pr1.010:13
itsnotabigtruckso far they've been committed to this no-sdk-updates thing10:14
jonniitsnotabigtruck: atleast they have patched 3 holes that inception was using (if there is pr update ever coming) :)10:14
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mankelinice priorities. fix inception holes, but leave the sdk outdated10:16
divan0Hi all. So, is there any chance to install Harmattan or Meego/Mer/Tizen on Lumia? Or any chances to do it in the future?10:17
dm8tbrdivan0: no10:17
itsnotabigtruckthat's like trying to seal the holes in a piece of swiss cheese10:17
mankelii guess meego kernel isn't going to work on qualcomm chipset anytime soon10:18
divan0that's bad10:18
itsnotabigtruckdivan0 mankeli: well, fortunately the kernel is open source so i doubt that's the largest stumbling block10:18
dm8tbrmankeli: secure boot loader, how would you load an own kernel? at least that's the rumor10:18
itsnotabigtruckfinding drivers for the lumia's hardware might be troublesome10:18
itsnotabigtruckyeah, that's a greater issue10:19
itsnotabigtruckalso in the case of harmattan the res is probably a problem10:19
itsnotabigtruckalso, no idea if the lumia's radio speaks the same interface as the N9's10:19
itsnotabigtruckbut likely not10:19
mankeliyeah, i have also heard that wp7 is pretty closed up10:19
itsnotabigtruckit is10:20
itsnotabigtruckit's by no means a hacker platform10:20
divan0wp7 is closed of course10:20
jonniwell lumia's are booted to linux kernel before windows is flashed on the factory, but no you cannot as end user flash meego on lumia, bootloader is locked before it leaves the factory.10:20
itsnotabigtruckeven if you root it, you're still highly limited10:20
divan0I've got Lumia and don't know what to do with it, if it's not possible to install meego...10:20
dm8tbrdivan0: sell it10:21
jonniyou can always give Lumia to your gf or parents :)10:21
mankelionly the exterior of lumia is similar to n910:21
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divan0jonni: I will break with gf if she'll use wp7 )))10:22
mankeliit WAS going to be a meego phone for chinese market, but when et wp7 thing came they quickly replaced the omap with qualcomm stuff and pushed it to the market10:22
jonniI have lumia800 on my table, have to admit that on some things it is faster than N910:23
divan0It would be pretty awesome push for Nokia if Harmattan could be installed on the next models of Nokia phones (hopefully with qwerty).10:23
jonnibut on other things its lacking, so I am still using N9 as my primary phone.10:23
Ariejonni i agree, but the lumia is extremely boring10:23
jonnithink that I love in N9 is that if something irritates me I can just recode it to my liking10:24
Ariei also have one right here in front of me, i don't have any interest to use it10:24
divan0jonni: even if it's 10x faster, it's closed platform anyway, so it's useless.10:24
mankelidivan0: not going to happen :(10:24
jonni(ofcourse it helps that I have full access to sources and to fully signed repositories).10:25
mankelibut i guess they are progressing with meltem10:25
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divan0jonni: full access to sources of WP7?10:25
jonniandroid and ios ;-)10:34
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djszapiHey! Does anybody know here how to set up badges on the Qt Developer Network page ? It shows me a blank page, if I click on the "Badge settings" on the left side of the "Edit profile" menu.11:26
tommamaybe you haven't earned any badges?11:29
djszapiwell, I should have a few in fact :-)11:32
djszapipretty much almost everything I saw out there so far.11:33
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itsnotabigtrucki should now be eligible for delicious delicious karma transfer11:35
itsnotabigtruckfrom tmo to midgard11:35
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MFaro-Tusinocan someone help me with a command?13:54
MFaro-TusinoTrying to get a desktop file to execute a shell script13:55
MFaro-TusinoI have Exec=/usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l '/usr/bin/meego-terminal -n -e sh /home/user/.BatteryWidget/' but thanks to aegis, the files are given root permissions13:55
MFaro-Tusinois there a way to run this as root without needing to input pass each time13:55
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mankeliMFaro-Tusino: you could try setuid14:07
MFaro-Tusinoin the manifest?14:08
mankelino, set the flag to percent.sh14:09
Anssi138what about ssh'ing root@localhost 'stuff'14:09
MFaro-Tusinobut i will still need to input the password no?14:09
MFaro-TusinoMankeli : How would I set the flag? sorry, still new at this tuff14:10
Anssi138well if you set ssh keys you should be able to to just login i think14:10
mankelihopefully the root ssh access disabled, especially if there's no password set :)14:10
Anssi138at least with std passwd :)14:11
mankeliMFaro-Tusino: try chmod 4555 percent.sh14:11
mankeliand then chown file to root:root14:12
mankeliat least that's what works on normal linux14:12
MFaro-TusinoBut i will need to do it manually each time the app is installed14:12
Anssi138that's quite nasty anyway.14:14
MFaro-Tusinocan I change the exec option of the desktop file to run in through aegis-exec without parsing through the user component?14:15
MFaro-Tusinoeg Exec=/usr/bin/aegis-exec -l '/usr/bin/meego-terminal -n -e sh /home/user/.BatteryWidget/'14:16
mankeliwhy do you need aegis-exec anyway14:16
MFaro-TusinoNot sure, just saw it on some development forum14:17
MFaro-Tusinoit has worked for me14:17
MFaro-Tusinoit is just now that i have packaged it, i am getting this permission issue14:17
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mankeliwell you should be able to install root uid files with packages14:18
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MFaro-TusinoThats the thing, it does install with root uid14:18
djszapi|windowsso any python gurus here ? :)14:19
djszapi|windowsthp: ? :p14:19
MFaro-Tusinobut when i did my app initially, i just cp'd all the files into place14:19
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: ? :)14:19
MFaro-Tusinoso it is done assuming user permission14:19
diorahmananyone know how to call Accounts-UI interface?14:19
mankelii misunderstood14:19
diorahmanis there a convenience class just like ShareUiInterface?14:20
diorahmanmaybe this one? ./usr/share/dbus-1/services/
MFaro-TusinoMankeli: Any idea how i can do it?14:25
merlin1991djszapi|windows: here now14:26
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djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: long story short, we switched to python 3.2 from 2.7 recently for the KDE Windows project.14:30
djszapi|windowsso it is probably due to that14:30
djszapi|windows(worked before)14:30
merlin1991hehe 2.7 -> 3.2 is an evil switch :)14:30
merlin1991anything 2.x -> 3.x is evil :D14:31
djszapi|windowsI know14:31
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djszapi|windowsI removed python from my arch machine14:31
djszapi|windowssince they have been shipping python3 since the day first14:31
djszapi|windowsat any you see the issue ?14:31
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: just out of the curiosity, is it a more painful change than qt3 -> qt4 ?14:32
merlin1991I never experienced that change14:32
djszapi|windowsright there are still softwares not recovered from that qt major change.14:32
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: anyway...ideas ? :-)14:32
merlin1991you need to encode the string as bytes14:33
* djszapi|windows has zero clue about python (TM)14:33
merlin1991fp.write(('#define CHECKSUM "%s"\n' % sm).encode('utf-8'))14:34
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: just in case python3 ?14:34
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merlin1991djszapi|windows: alternatively you can give it a default encoding when opening the file pointer --> fp = open(sys.argv[3], "wb", encoding='utf-8')14:37
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: just in case python3 ?14:38
djszapi|windowsor will that work for both ?14:38
merlin1991uh dunno if it works for both14:38
merlin1991and I just realized I told you foobar14:39
djszapi|windowsit would be nice if I do not need to do things conditionally.14:39
djszapi|windowssome solution which works for both...14:39
merlin1991because if you have a 'b' in the filemode it does not do encodings at all for you14:39
merlin1991the problem is that strings in pyhton3 are not strings in python214:39
merlin1991and pyhton3 has the idea of "binary strings"14:39
djszapi|windowsso only "ifdef" like solution ? Is there such a thing in python codes btw ?14:40
djszapi|windowsnot preprocessor obviously, but some runtime stuff14:40
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: most of the linux users use python2, and some of them plus kde-windows use python3.14:41
djszapi|windowsso it /has/ to work with both.14:41
merlin1991well you can check for the python version on runtime14:41
djszapi|windowsinside the python file ?14:41
djszapi|windowshow ?14:41
merlin1991if sys.hexversion > 0x0300000014:41
merlin1991but let me test first if it works on both14:42
merlin1991(got python2 and 3 installed here)14:42
merlin1991using .encode works on both14:45
merlin1991but why do you need binary write mode on the file in the first place?14:46
djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: no clue, not my project14:47
djszapi|windowsif they need, I accept it, and adopt the feature to python3.14:47
djszapi|windowsthat is all.14:47
merlin1991I don't see a point why they would need it :D14:47
merlin1991becuase without binary mode it would work on pyhton3 without changes :D14:48
djszapi|windowsif it was text thingie14:48
djszapi|windowslet me do a git blame14:48
djszapi|windowsmore than years ago :-)14:49
merlin1991you can either add an explicit encode line to each write or just change the file mode form wb to w14:50
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merlin1991both solutions work on 2.x and 3.x14:50
djszapi|windowswell, encoding seems to be a workaround14:50
djszapi|windowsand I can CC the original author14:50
djszapi|windowsI would not like to change this "feature" even if it is a bug14:51
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djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: to me it seems it should be text14:53
djszapi|windowssince it generates C++ style thingie14:53
merlin1991to me aswell14:53
djszapi|windowswell, let me try to build it14:54
djszapi|windowsit seems an abandoned stuff anyway14:54
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djszapi|windowslast commit 3 years ago14:54
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djszapi|windowsmerlin1991: ok, I pushed, thanks14:59
djszapi|windowsif it is not okay, someone is gonna shot me14:59
merlin1991better lrn2doge bullets ;)15:01
djszapi|windowsfair enough :)15:01
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diorahmananyone could help on this:
MohammadAGmankeli: I am15:22
MohammadAGI have an idling i515:22
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khertanHi all !15:25
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xmlich02ja budu pracovat, ju?15:31
xmlich02bad window15:31
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wooksorry for bit stupid question, but, how to get keycodes of device? (vol up and vol down keys)16:07
auenfok, so moving .qmf dir made email work again16:10
auenfso i didnt need to flash :P16:10
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merlin1991hey khertan ;)16:44
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diorahmanany ideas on this: ??17:37
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paany alternative to nokia MD50?17:43
pai dont want to pay 100 bucks for a bluetooth speaker17:43
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dm8tbrdiorahman: there is at least Aard's XMPP plugin that uses the settings and accounts structure18:08
khertanmerlin1991: hey18:12
diorahmandm8tbr: owh, do yo have access to it's source?18:29
dm8tbrdiorahman: IIRC there's a git repo somewhereâ„¢18:31
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dm8tbrdiorahman: looks like it18:32
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diorahman_dm8tbr: thanks18:35
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diorahman_dm8tbr: but, how to dbus-send (sending message) to the account-ui ? :-)18:35
itsnotabigtruckdm8tbr: what's missing from that?18:36
itsnotabigtruckany reason why it was never distributed?18:36
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ZogG_laptoptedtalks is nice app18:47
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diorahmanZogG_laptop: thanks! :_)18:52
diorahmandm8tbr: hum, I could call the invoker then18:53
ZogG_laptopdiorahman: your work?18:53
diorahmanZogG_laptop: yes, it is , please support me :-)
ZogG_laptopdiorahman: i would, after i'll re-connect new card to paypal again18:54
ZogG_laptopdiorahman: btw you should change name18:55
diorahmanZogG_laptop: Awesome :-) Haha, yeah?18:55
ZogG_laptopas it's names talks18:55
ZogG_laptoplike TED on icon and talks in the label18:55
ZogG_laptopbut despite icon label should include TED or at least not to be talks as it's too general word to use18:56
diorahmanZogG_laptop: I'm sorry, I couldn't follow you. I decided to put just Talks, since the TED is already in the icon18:56
ZogG_laptopit is logical but i wouldn't connect both18:57
diorahmanZogG_laptop: will do some experiment with that with next release :-)18:58
ZogG_laptopdiorahman: did you announced it on TMO?18:59
diorahmannot yet, I'm just a beginner, will do that after smoothing some rough edges19:00
ZogG_laptopman, it's much more stable and usefull than my app, so do it19:02
ZogG_laptopanyway yo uannounced on n9-apps =)19:02
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diorahmanZogG_laptop: yes I did :-)19:05
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itsnotabigtruckitsnotabigtruck | dm8tbr: what's missing from that?19:14
itsnotabigtruckitsnotabigtruck | any reason why it was never distributed?19:14
itsnotabigtruckdiorahman ^ might you know?19:15
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: about what? the plugin?19:15
itsnotabigtruckyeah, the xmpp accounts plugin19:16
itsnotabigtrucki saw that before and i'm wondering what the catch is19:16
diorahmanwell, I don't know, I'm asking the question because I wanna use account-ui just like meein does19:17
diorahmanand maybe somehow, could reuse the credentials from e.g. connected facebook and twitter user information19:17
diorahmanabout that xmpp I don't really know19:18
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diorahmansince the accounts-ui plugin only have provider and service, there is no "interface"-file for dbus, what is the choices to call it?19:24
diorahmanIf it has invoker, then can we just call it?19:24
amppaany idea how the store works -- if a free application changes to a paid one, will all existing installations still receive updates as before?19:24
diorahmanthe thing is, how can we get the "signal" when it's done?19:24
dm8tbritsnotabigtruck: Aard is here, you can ask him. IIRC he wanted to put it into ovi store19:26
diorahmandm8tbr: cool!19:26
dm8tbritsnotabigtruck: I have it on my N950, it works like a charm19:27
itsnotabigtruckaard: ping19:28
itsnotabigtruckdon't think i've ever seen him around here19:28
itsnotabigtruck176 people and so many never say a word :/19:28
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: haha19:30
itsnotabigtruckdm8tbr: i know there was a previous xmpp plugin hosted on github i think?19:30
itsnotabigtruckthat i don't think was finished19:30
diorahmanBTW, itsnotabigtruck do you know how to call the accounts-ui (and the specific plugin) via dbus or anything else?19:31
itsnotabigtruckthe gitorious has one commit, in january19:31
itsnotabigtruckso if the plan was to actually release it i don't see the logic behind waiting 3 months19:31
Aarditsnotabigtruck: yes?19:32
itsnotabigtruckAard: oh hey, as you can see i was wondering about the status of your xmpp account plugin project19:32
Aardit's working, I just never got around to make the qml look nice19:33
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diorahmanAard itsnotabigtruck yeah I tried it just now :-)19:35
itsnotabigtruckAard: planning on finishing that up and releasing soon?19:35
diorahmanAard: do you know how to "launch" the UI (of your plugin) via dbus? :-)19:36
diorahmanAard: or is there another way so the caller could track down what;s happening with the callee?19:37
Aarditsnotabigtruck: depends on time and how annoying qml is to me19:37
Aarddiorahman: you can just directly call it with the right parameters (start it from accounts-ui, note the parameters, and invoke it manually)19:38
diorahmanAard: example please :-) I don't know the params for the accounts-ui19:39
Aarddiorahman: accounts-ui = the graphical thingy. you tap on it, and then from ps output you take the parameters19:39
Aarditsnotabigtruck: there's currently about 200 lines of uncomitted local changes I need to get around to clean up, and some fixing with the qml19:40
Aarditsnotabigtruck: on an unrelated note, do you want to have a graphical installer for inception? I did something which includes installing inception from ui, and at least that part could probably be released, after some cleaning19:42
itsnotabigtruckaard: ooh19:45
itsnotabigtrucki thought about implementing one but held off on it because there'd still be no gui way to actually incept anything with it19:45
itsnotabigtruckto get any benefit from installing inception you need to know the terminal19:45
itsnotabigtruckthat's why i was thinking about building an app repository with a fancy installer, but that's a lot of work19:46
Aardwell, it's just a simple ui, and a small non-ui program which runs with root-permission and get's called doing the dirty stuff. you can just throw it somewhere, and install it through the web browser19:46
Aardextending it to support package installs shouldn't be too much work19:47
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itsnotabigtruckaard: main screen looks OK, except for the background color19:55
itsnotabigtruckalso needs to be XMPP (Jabber) [with a space]19:55
Aarditsnotabigtruck: $ git diff src/resources/qml/xmpp-settings.qml | wc -l19:55
itsnotabigtruckalso maybe change Username to Address or Jabber ID19:55
itsnotabigtruckif you're going to commit that soon maybe i should just rebuild and test that then19:56
itsnotabigtrucki assume this is going to end up in AFM? seeing that you have all the debian packaging stuff set up19:56
AardI planned to throw it into the store19:57
itsnotabigtruckupload it to afm too19:57
itsnotabigtruckit needs more stuff desperately19:57
itsnotabigtruckyou put the DSC and TAR.GZ into c-obs and do some stuff to submit it into apps for meego19:58
Aardwe'll see. I'm still unsure if I want to start messing with debian packages on obs ;)19:58
itsnotabigtruckaard: well, aren't you already messing with debian packages :p19:59
Aardit's different to just build it in scratchbox and mess around with a system mainly designed for building rpms20:00
itsnotabigtruckyeah, the settings screen needs a little bit of styling :p20:01
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itsnotabigtruckalso btw the XMPP icon needs to be put in a squircle20:02
Aardin a what?20:02
Aardwell, I had no intention to mess with the icon ;)20:04
bindiso, does google talk work with n9?20:05
itsnotabigtruckAard: well, it needs to be messed with :p in order to comply with harmattan design guidelines20:05
itsnotabigtruckbindi: of course, that's out of the box20:05
Aardi.e. they won't accept it in store without?20:05
itsnotabigtrucknokia put in all the infrastructure for xmpp accounts, but then locked it down to google only :/20:05
itsnotabigtruckaard: they'll accept all sorts of stuff20:05
itsnotabigtruckbut if you want your app to look *good* it needs to blend in20:05
Aardwell, then I don't care ;)20:05
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diorahman_Aard: do you mean, after launching the account-ui, then I have to launch the plugin manually? (by calling the invoker?) and then listen the signal from accounts-ui?20:06
itsnotabigtruckforget the store requirements, that's irrelevant20:06
AardI did this last year because I wanted to use jabber without mc-tool, nothing else ;)20:06
itsnotabigtrucki'm a bit irritated with people using nokia's lax store requirements to justify inferior quality20:06
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Aardwell, I don't care much about the ui side20:07
itsnotabigtruckanyway, the xmpp logo just needs to be dropped on top of the squircle background like this:
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itsnotabigtruckalso, there's a telepathy option that controls whether someone who's not a contact can call you, maybe add another option for that20:08
Aardon my phone the current version does not render (i.e., syntax error in qml), so I'll have to look at that first before I can push it. if you're lucky early next week20:08
itsnotabigtruckignore certificate and require ssl could perhaps be combined into one option20:09
itsnotabigtrucke.g. insecure mode = ignore on, require off20:09
itsnotabigtrucksecure mode = ignore off, require on20:09
itsnotabigtruckbecause with require off, a mitm can just make it seem like the server doesn't support ssl20:10
Aardit's just 'prefer ssl' in that case, which does make sense20:11
Aardtreating ssl on jabber as anything but 'nice to have, but not important' is nonsense20:12
itsnotabigtruckaard: it's the only security you have on N9 IM so it's pretty damn important20:12
itsnotabigtruckand secure mode should definitely be the default20:12
itsnotabigtruckthat is, require on, ignore off20:12
itsnotabigtruckif you trust the server, and you're communicating with someone on the same server, jabber ssl is ok security20:13
itsnotabigtruckfor interdomain connections, with today's jabber server implementations you can't trust it20:13
Aardthe point of jabber is that you have lot's of distributed jabber servers, so having it is mostly nonsense20:14
itsnotabigtruckAard: in any case, if you could make the settings secure-by-default that would be great20:15
itsnotabigtruckbtw what license is this under? the gitorious says GPL2 but i didn't see any license banners in the code20:16
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Aardit's gplv220:20
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diorahmanAard: from qdbus, I could get method void ServiceType)20:30
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diorahmanthe service type should be: social, IM etc? but it doesnt change anything20:30
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itsnotabigtruckanyway, Aard: are you going to implement the strict ssl by default20:44
itsnotabigtruckrealistically most people use the default settings and i'm worried people are going to get roped into insecure defaults20:45
DocScrutinizer(<itsnotabigtruck> also btw the XMPP icon needs to be put in a squircle) IIRC there's a infra to do that on device, for bookmarks20:45
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: hm, interesting20:45
itsnotabigtruckthough in this case it needs to be prepped in advance20:45
itsnotabigtrucklike the ones supplied by nokia for various services20:45
itsnotabigtruck(pretty much everything but xmpp, in fact :p)20:45
DocScrutinizerprepare in advance using on-device infra20:46
itsnotabigtruck...or on a host pc and shipped in the package20:46
DocScrutinizerhell, no20:46
bindihow significantly will being available on google talk 24/7 drain the battery?20:46
DocScrutinizerI mean: use your device to prepare the icon, then copy to your PC20:47
itsnotabigtruckbindi: somewhere between not at all and a lot20:47
bindilol, okay20:47
bindiwill just have to see then :)20:47
itsnotabigtruckyou probably won't get 3 to 4 day battery life20:47
DocScrutinizermore like: substantially20:47
DocScrutinizeror like: 3..4h standby20:47
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: errr, no20:48
itsnotabigtruckunless something is severely wrong, not even close20:48
DocScrutinizerdepends on amount and esp frequency of traffic, and media channel aka 3G / WLAN / USB?20:49
bindiwill just have to see tbh20:49
itsnotabigtrucki had my xmpp configured with mc-tool for a while20:49
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itsnotabigtruckit still lasted at least 2 days20:49
DocScrutinizer3G is probably more like 4h than 4d20:49
itsnotabigtruck3 to 4 hours is fud20:49
bindidoubt it will affect at all, since Android has google talk 24/7 available too :>20:50
Arieand what about on 2g?20:50
bindier, by at all i mean a little20:50
DocScrutinizerArie: 2G is waaay better20:50
bindiargh. by at all i mean that much20:50
Ariethat's what I assumed as well20:50
Arieit should last at least a day on 2G20:50
DocScrutinizerthat's what I get with IRC on N90020:51
bindiatleast a day on 2G?20:51
Ariei keep fmobi/aim running at all times on 2G and it lasts me all day without a hiccup20:51
bindiyeah i'll just stop listening to you guys and do my own testing :D20:51
DocScrutinizerwith 3G more like 6h20:51
itsnotabigtruckthe irc clients are probably less efficient20:51
DocScrutinizero.e. a quarter20:51
Aarditsnotabigtruck: the defaults will probably change, though it'll stay as separate settings20:51
itsnotabigtruckyou're probably comparing apples to oranges20:51
ArieDocScrutinizer: that's about right20:51
itsnotabigtruckaard: the separate settings doesn't matter that much, the defaults are important20:52
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: that's no question of client, but a qustion of protocol20:52
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: well, it could be a bit of both20:52
itsnotabigtruckesp if the telepathy stuff puts things into powersave modes20:52
itsnotabigtruckand the 3rd party irc client doesn't20:52
Aardright now it's settings how I need them, once it's ready for publishing I might change some of them20:52
Ariepowersave mode activity is a must, if you expect to get at least a days use out of it20:52
DocScrutinizerif your protocol causes inbound ping every 30s, your 3G eats battery in 3h20:53
DocScrutinizerno matter what client does20:53
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DocScrutinizerno way to force any PS on it20:54
DocScrutinizerso it way more depends on the *server* you connect to, rather than your client20:54
Ariewell that nulls the idea of PS20:54
DocScrutinizeraaah well, that special HARM PS mode, NFC20:55
DocScrutinizeryou might have a point there20:55
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DocScrutinizerbut AIUI this PS mode just does a hidden offline mode, so you're also not 24/7 'online'20:57
DocScrutinizereven if you might think so20:57
DocScrutinizeralso nfc what's google talk. Maybe it's a weird VoIP-over-XMPP implementation, then the server might avoid to send frequent pings, and you get same standby like with usual VoIP20:59
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DocScrutinizerthe max period between any keep-alive pkgs for servers (your VoIP UA actually is a server when you look at it from internet, it has open port and accepts inbound traffic) is determined by the session-timeout in any NAT your 3G provider is using21:02
DocScrutinizeras soon as the NAT terminates the session (the port assignment for inbound), you're no more available from the internets21:03
DocScrutinizerso you need keep-alive pks sent every other minute or sth21:04
DocScrutinizerto stop NAT session timeout21:04
DocScrutinizersome nifty carriers might offer uPnP for their NAT. Some may not have a NAT at all (saunalati comes to mind)21:05
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dm8tbrsaunalahti does default nat, but you can turn it off nowadays21:08
DocScrutinizeraaah, I see21:09
dm8tbralso: I just disabled sip register on my N95021:09
dm8tbrit sucked and never worked anyway for me21:09
dm8tbrI now have working inbound over XMPP21:09
DocScrutinizerwith keep-alive? or NAT free?21:10
dm8tbrand as I use XMPP for messaging anyway, there is no overhead, actually it reduces overhead as I don't need active SIP register21:10
dm8tbrXMPP is TCP based for the control channel21:10
dm8tbrvoice goes through RTP21:10
DocScrutinizerRTP voice needs no keep alive - *usually*21:10
DocScrutinizerI say *usually* as you might have situations where you listen for minutes, and your codec does silence pause21:11
DocScrutinizeror raher, you speak for minutes, while far end doesn't send data due to silence pause21:12
dm8tbrin addition only aplicable if silence detection kicks in21:13
DocScrutinizerthat's what I meant, yep21:14
DocScrutinizeranyway, standby for server services like any flavour of VoIP is highly determined by network (when it comes to 3G) and almost unrelated to the UA you use21:15
DocScrutinizerso it's kinda like asking "how much will it reduce my standby when I run an apache server on my device?"21:16
DocScrutinizeranswer: depends on what "the internet" does21:17
DocScrutinizerunrelated to your apache config21:17
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kneeI noticed today that push notifications stop working when switching between networks.. (noticed this with ebuddy xms). If I start the app when connected it works perfectly, if I than switch networks / get disconnected it stops working until I start the app again.. Is this a 'problem' in harmattan itself or in ebuddy (and is there a way to fix it?)21:47
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ZogG_laptopfrals: saw your tweet about headphones, ddi they work good with n9?22:00
ZogG_laptopi mean all controls and stuff22:00
ZogG_laptop905i or what was the model22:00
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