IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-04-01

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itsnotabigtruckjavispedro DocScrutinizer: so, no idea about any libraries like this besides glib and qt?00:02
itsnotabigtruckthis isn't exactly an uncommon requirement, i find it hard to believe those are the only games in town00:03
javispedrocalling libc "boilerplatish" isn't a common opinion =)00:04
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: sure it is...posix apis are the result of decades of cruft and backward compatibility and aren't very nice to use in the slightest00:08
itsnotabigtrucksure, they do give you maximum power, but sometimes you want to write c code -and- not have to jump through lots of bs hoops just to write files and things00:10
javispedrowell, I have rather the opposite opinion, so I can't be of much help there00:12
itsnotabigtruckthen you probably haven't dealt with it much lately :p00:13
javispedroI think that you need to try AIO or similar brainfsck to know how good plain stdlib is =)00:16
villagerwhy is eintr a problem? normally it shouldn't be00:17
itsnotabigtruckvillager: because i want it to be robust if somebody decides to spam my program with ignored signals or something00:17
villagerif it's ignored, then it shouldn't cause an eintr, should it?00:18
itsnotabigtruckand in theory you're *always* supposed to detect eintr and retry, unless you're doing something unusual and using eintr to break out of a call00:18
itsnotabigtruckand it feels like all the error handling code is starting to snowball into this terrible mess00:20
javispedroyou can't implement the Nth iteration of fully_write/safe_write and call it a day?00:21
villagerI just feel that if you're concerned about eintr when doing regular file access, you're doing something wrong00:21
DocScrutinizerwell, itsnotabigtruck has a tendency to think old proven stuff been done by idiots and he's about to implement the new shiny world00:23
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itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: i've already done that, but having to do so is exactly the problem00:23
itsnotabigtruckthe very need for that is proof that posix just isn't usable for regular programming00:24
itsnotabigtruckif you have to hide away the complexities of an api, the api isn't doing its job00:24
itsnotabigtruckand every single project shouldn't need a pile of cruft to deal with it00:24
itsnotabigtruckso i was hoping that at least someone already did all the cruft and put it in a library00:25
javispedrothere's no way in hell you are going to skip this trivial level of error handling00:25
villageritsnotabigtruck: nah, I think the rest of us actually knows how to use the api00:25
DocScrutinizerno sir, you're the very first one with that brilliant insight00:25
javispedroat somepoint, you will have to write what happens when there is a short read, or the device is full00:25
javispedroa magic library at most will assert() on that00:26
DocScrutinizersee why today's sw sucks?00:26
javispedroeven C++'s iostreams force you to check for .good() everytime you << to an ostream00:26
villagerI know glib has some i/o stuff00:26
javispedro(noone does it)00:26
villagerbut it's not much nicer to use if you're using c, since you still have to check for errors00:27
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villagerthough it does make reading line-by-line easier I think00:27
villagerg_io_channel_read_line ftw00:28
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itsnotabigtruckvillager: the 'file utilities' functions are mostly just symlinks to libc, iochannels seem to be oriented toward text00:32
javispedrochannels can work with binary if you set the encoding to raw00:33
itsnotabigtruckalso the api for opening the iochannel is pretty limited and forces going back to open() and then wrapping that with an iochannel00:33
itsnotabigtruckit also doesn't seem to guarantee that a short read is an eof00:33
DocScrutinizerit all boils down to the notion that all those who wrote all the proven to work stuff in e.g coreutils were idiots, but now you came to do it right00:36
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: that's your idea, not mine00:37
itsnotabigtruckdon't be an ass00:37
DocScrutinizerno, your idea is simply that all the other idiots were too lazy to create a lib for you so you don't have to deal with stuff that's inevitable to deal with00:38
Anssi138*gets popcorn*00:38
Anssi138or beer in this case.00:38
DocScrutinizerAnssi138: forget it, I'm already bored00:38
javispedromaybe the #posix guys will be happy to help =)00:39
Anssi138and dont mix linux to posix either.00:39
Anssi138^ that comment always cheers up people.00:40
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ZogG_laptopomg, wrong channel... oh, wit it's not =)00:46
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bindiis there any way to export contacts and edit them on PC and import them back?00:52
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bindiold phone decided to save them in some non-standard way on the sim card00:52
bindi"lastname;firstname/1" <.<00:53
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ZogG_laptopbindi: there is thread on TMO afaik that explaines how to extrackt them from database, so you can edit them with script i think00:56
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ZogG_laptopparse and change00:56
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DocScrutinizeraah, a semi-standard way00:58
DocScrutinizersome semi-documented semi-standardized way to have rich contacts on poor stupid sim00:59
DocScrutinizerprobably a Motorola, or a Sony?01:00
bindiwait actually01:00
bindisony ericsson01:00
DocScrutinizerif only I could recall where I commented on it01:01
DocScrutinizereither it was in maemo, or rather in fso/shr domain01:02
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DocScrutinizerwow, didn't think I'd find a comment from 2009 that fast01:06
DocScrutinizeranyway seems Nokia is using that scheme as well, so it should get handled properly by HARM01:09
bindiwell, it didn't01:09
bindiit's like that in the contacts01:09
bindiwhen i imported from sim01:09
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DocScrutinizerblame HARM01:11
bindii'd rather get it fixed than blame anything :p01:11
DocScrutinizerI'd open a bug ticket... wait, they closed trac so no more tickets :-P01:11
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DocScrutinizeryou could fix it yourself, but where's the sourcecode...?01:12
bindicould always install android ICS :d01:13
DocScrutinizerI neither understand :p nor :q01:14
DocScrutinizerI do understand :-P01:14
bindii'm glad I had a 'd' and not one of those01:14
bindibut it was a capslock failure, what I meant was ':D'01:14
javispedrodoes android also follow that scheme?01:15
bindinfc brings to mind01:15
bindinfc between N9 and galaxy nexus doesn't work :(01:15
bindiwait actually, it does but not everything01:15
DocScrutinizernot really any surprise01:15
javispedroN9 brings to mind..01:15
bindibefore pr 1.2 it didn't work at all, now i can send links but not pictures01:16
javispedro... that I should join #n9 and start asking where it is being sold at <300eur.01:16
bindigot it for 299e :p01:16
bindior well, my mum did01:16 ?01:16
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javispedroship internationally dammit01:19
itsnotabigtruckyeah, it seems like extremely few EU based resellers ship out of the EU01:21
javispedroand no .fi resellers ship outside of .fi ;P01:21
itsnotabigtrucknone at all? i doubt that :p01:21
javispedrowell, i'd like to see one.... specially one of those 300eur. ones01:22
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faenilmmm this isn't funny01:27
faenilthe led of my n950's kb blinks01:27
faenilI see the keyboard blinking...01:28
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faeniland when I slide the keyboard or it locks, it doesn't stop blinking...-.-01:28
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: did you turn r&d mode on?01:29
faenilitsnotabigtruck, yes, marquiz made me do that to debug dualbooting issues01:30
faenilis that it?01:30
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: yep, just turn that back off and you'll be set01:31
itsnotabigtruckdoes enabling that do anything useful on n9, anyway?01:31
faenildon't know...01:31
itsnotabigtruckwell, why did (he?) have you enable it, in the first place :p01:32
faenilanyway, that's why my N950 was discharging faster...kb didn't stop blinking :D01:32
faenilitsnotabigtruck, just an attempt :P01:32
faenilI disabled watchdog01:32
faenilmarquiz thought that prevented harmattan from booting in the dualboot setup01:32
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: ah, ok, that makes sense then01:33
itsnotabigtruckbut yeah, better undo that now and disable r&d mode to stop the blinking01:33
faenildon't see why it should blink though :P01:34
javispedroso it turned out that the positioningd output is already unfiltered, despite me thinking it was filtered01:35
javispedro mwahaha01:35
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Novagx-fade if you can look into why my project isnt in appsformeego i would be greatful
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itsnotabigtruckNovag: odd08:38
itsnotabigtruck < the package itself is in the repo08:38
Novagwhy isnt it here then
itsnotabigtruckbtw Novag: since your package is architecture-independent, it should really be set to Architecture: all08:40
itsnotabigtrucknot any or armel08:40
itsnotabigtruckno idea about that though :(08:41
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Novagwould that be reason enough not to have it on the store? surely they would reject the package if it didnt meet the criteria08:42
itsnotabigtruckNovag: there aren't really any criteria, it's all automated08:43
itsnotabigtruckthe criteria are a) does it have pics, b) does it build, c) does it have a category on the list :p08:43
itsnotabigtrucki was just saying that because i noticed your package was marked as armel, not all08:44
itsnotabigtruckappsformeego seems to be a bit buggy, you're not the first person to have something not show up08:45
Novagit is only supported on N9 and N950 so shouldnt it be arm because its only supported on that device08:45
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itsnotabigtruckNovag: but if they made a new harmattan phone that's almost the same but had atom inside, it would still be compatible08:46
itsnotabigtrucki mean, this is all theoretical, the point is that correct info is good :p08:46
Novagi cant claim to know that because the package doesnt work on N900 so the next version might have a different gui again which would break it, i understand your point, i just compiled it the same way other themes were done08:47
itsnotabigtruckNovag: it's not about the target platform08:47
itsnotabigtruckit's about, does your package have cpu-specific files08:48
itsnotabigtruckif no, all, if yes, armel/i386/whatever08:48
Novagthanks, since its just a proof of concept at the moment i will update in on the next release08:48
itsnotabigtruckanyway...usually it takes a while for stuff to come up on the site, but i noticed your theme in the repo a few hours ago so it should be up by now :/08:49
sony123How do I gain the permission to execute 'ifconfig wlan0 up'?08:50
itsnotabigtrucksony123: develsh08:50
itsnotabigtruckopensh works too08:50
sony123Executing it as root I got something like 'SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not permitted'08:50
itsnotabigtrucksony123: i didn't say 'run it as root', did i08:51
Novagalright the only reason i asked why its not there is because "bossbot (bossbot) accepted request 4548 2 weeks ago "08:51
itsnotabigtruckbeing root doesn't help, the CAP::net_admin credential does08:51
itsnotabigtruckdevel-su actually resets your credentials08:52
itsnotabigtruckunlike su on a normal linux box, which would add capabilities08:52
itsnotabigtruckso you need to do the ifconfig from a develsh08:52
itsnotabigtruckbeing root doesn't hurt but you need to run develsh *after* devel-su08:52
itsnotabigtruckNovag: haha, ok, that's been a bit more than a few hours then :p08:53
sony123itsnotabigtruck: Ok thanks I see the difference.08:54
itsnotabigtrucksony123: it's definitely rather confusing08:54
itsnotabigtrucknormally, simply becoming root grants all linux capabilities08:54
sony123itsnotabigtruck: Yeah, so a big thank you :)08:55
itsnotabigtrucksony123: btw did you get incepted08:56
sony123itsnotabigtruck: No... it's sweet but the capabilities it provides are out of my reach so I don't have it.09:00
sony123itsnotabigtruck: But thanks for opening the door for other more hard-core devs09:00
itsnotabigtrucksony123: well, it doesn't hurt to install it anyway :p09:06
sony123I'll give it a try.. I saw creamy goodness has overclocking patch.09:12
itsnotabigtruckyeah, not sure it's such a great idea but it's cool to see someone finally went ahead and did it09:13
sony123You opened the flood gate :>09:14
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pabtw i made the wlan "toggle" sort of, now i have to understand how i can clone and rename a project/application before publishing it, coz i started from an existing n9 application project11:33
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phakopa: project settings, run and expand the packaging thing12:26
phakoit's the first thing under the list of files to install12:27
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itsnotabigtruckwow, nothing at all overnight?17:02
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slin123hi! i've just got my first own debian package deployed on my devdays n9!20:04
slin123does anybody know why i cannot uninstall it directly from the launcher?20:05
slin123if i press and hold no red cross appears.20:05
slin123i cann uninstall from the application manager though.20:06
jonnislin123: depends if you installed the package through the ui, or with dpkg from commandline.20:09
jonnior your desktop file.20:10
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slin123ah ok. i'll try installing using a file manager.20:12
SpeedEvilslin123: Congrats!20:13
itsnotabigtruckslin123: install using pkgmgr install-file -f foo.deb20:14
itsnotabigtruckthat installs through the same mechanism as the gui20:14
itsnotabigtruckalso you should put XB-MeeGo-Desktop-Entry-Filename in your debian/control but that doesn't always seem to do anything20:15
slin123well, sometimes harmattan docs are kind of lacking information...20:16
slin123thanks for your advise!20:17
slin123oh. baby cries! must leave. good night.20:18
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itsnotabigtruckslin123: oh, and make sure to get incepted20:20
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: drug dealer =)20:31
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: lol20:38
itsnotabigtruckwell, it seems like a huge portion of irc 'dropins' haven't heard of it, so i might as well spam it when i have the chance :p20:38
itsnotabigtruckespecially since inception taking off is entirely dependent on developers doing cool things with it20:39
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: btw account may have 3 plugins i need to write =)20:43
ZogG_laptopone for webupload lib, one for creation and account managment, one for sync (if i want sync)20:44
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paany alternative pdf reader for harmattan, so far?20:47
palike okular, evince or xpdf20:47
pathe integrated one sucks.. many pdf cannot even be opened20:47
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: damn :/20:55
itsnotabigtruckthink you're up to it?20:55
itsnotabigtruckthe docs aren't exactly excellent20:55
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i think it would be ready when 2 meego phones would be released21:30
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itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: so never then?21:33
itsnotabigtruckthat was an unsubstantiated rumor21:34
ZogG_laptopmaybe i'll be able to do it oneday21:34
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dm8tbrZogG_laptop: in that context a quote from #mer21:37
dm8tbr12:50:20< dm8tbr> we could have pointed him to _today's_ Nokia press release in which they repent, abandon MS and go full out MeeGo and that MeltMeCheese21:37
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ZogG_laptopdm8tbr: i know what day today21:42
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tehdelythat would be a funny joke for nokia to play22:20
teleshoesanyone wanna find out if n9-button-monitor works for them, to do: volume_up key to toggle torch/flashlight and focus-then-snap pictures in camera app?22:23
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teleshoesanyone know how to start/stop/skip/next the built-in shitty music player with cli?23:02
Anssi138maybe with dbus command.23:09
teleshoesscrounging hasnt turned anything up23:09
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teleshoesso i just found it23:11
teleshoesthe interface at least, using dbus-monitor23:11
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teleshoesqdbus /
teleshoesqdbus /
teleshoesqdbus /
teleshoesqdbus /
teleshoesoops, irc, right23:33
teleshoesqdbus /
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Venemodoes Fedora contain the X11 multitouch patches yet?23:45
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Venemoeh, wrong channel, sorry23:48

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