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| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro DocScrutinizer: so, no idea about any libraries like this besides glib and qt? | 00:02 |
|---|---|---|
| itsnotabigtruck | this isn't exactly an uncommon requirement, i find it hard to believe those are the only games in town | 00:03 |
| javispedro | calling libc "boilerplatish" isn't a common opinion =) | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro: sure it is...posix apis are the result of decades of cruft and backward compatibility and aren't very nice to use in the slightest | 00:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sure, they do give you maximum power, but sometimes you want to write c code -and- not have to jump through lots of bs hoops just to write files and things | 00:10 |
| javispedro | well, I have rather the opposite opinion, so I can't be of much help there | 00:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then you probably haven't dealt with it much lately :p | 00:13 |
| javispedro | I think that you need to try AIO or similar brainfsck to know how good plain stdlib is =) | 00:16 |
| villager | why is eintr a problem? normally it shouldn't be | 00:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | villager: because i want it to be robust if somebody decides to spam my program with ignored signals or something | 00:17 |
| villager | if it's ignored, then it shouldn't cause an eintr, should it? | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and in theory you're *always* supposed to detect eintr and retry, unless you're doing something unusual and using eintr to break out of a call | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it feels like all the error handling code is starting to snowball into this terrible mess | 00:20 |
| javispedro | you can't implement the Nth iteration of fully_write/safe_write and call it a day? | 00:21 |
| villager | I just feel that if you're concerned about eintr when doing regular file access, you're doing something wrong | 00:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, itsnotabigtruck has a tendency to think old proven stuff been done by idiots and he's about to implement the new shiny world | 00:23 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | javispedro: i've already done that, but having to do so is exactly the problem | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the very need for that is proof that posix just isn't usable for regular programming | 00:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you have to hide away the complexities of an api, the api isn't doing its job | 00:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and every single project shouldn't need a pile of cruft to deal with it | 00:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so i was hoping that at least someone already did all the cruft and put it in a library | 00:25 |
| javispedro | there's no way in hell you are going to skip this trivial level of error handling | 00:25 |
| villager | itsnotabigtruck: nah, I think the rest of us actually knows how to use the api | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | no sir, you're the very first one with that brilliant insight | 00:25 |
| javispedro | at somepoint, you will have to write what happens when there is a short read, or the device is full | 00:25 |
| javispedro | *write | 00:25 |
| javispedro | a magic library at most will assert() on that | 00:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | see why today's sw sucks? | 00:26 |
| javispedro | even C++'s iostreams force you to check for .good() everytime you << to an ostream | 00:26 |
| villager | I know glib has some i/o stuff | 00:26 |
| javispedro | (noone does it) | 00:26 |
| villager | but it's not much nicer to use if you're using c, since you still have to check for errors | 00:27 |
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| villager | though it does make reading line-by-line easier I think | 00:27 |
| villager | g_io_channel_read_line ftw | 00:28 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | villager: the 'file utilities' functions are mostly just symlinks to libc, iochannels seem to be oriented toward text | 00:32 |
| javispedro | channels can work with binary if you set the encoding to raw | 00:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also the api for opening the iochannel is pretty limited and forces going back to open() and then wrapping that with an iochannel | 00:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it also doesn't seem to guarantee that a short read is an eof | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | sigh | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | it all boils down to the notion that all those who wrote all the proven to work stuff in e.g coreutils were idiots, but now you came to do it right | 00:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: that's your idea, not mine | 00:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't be an ass | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, your idea is simply that all the other idiots were too lazy to create a lib for you so you don't have to deal with stuff that's inevitable to deal with | 00:38 |
| Anssi138 | *gets popcorn* | 00:38 |
| Anssi138 | or beer in this case. | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | Anssi138: forget it, I'm already bored | 00:38 |
| javispedro | maybe the #posix guys will be happy to help =) | 00:39 |
| Anssi138 | and dont mix linux to posix either. | 00:39 |
| Anssi138 | ^ that comment always cheers up people. | 00:40 |
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| ZogG_laptop | omg, wrong channel... oh, wit it's not =) | 00:46 |
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| bindi | ahem | 00:52 |
| bindi | is there any way to export contacts and edit them on PC and import them back? | 00:52 |
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| bindi | old phone decided to save them in some non-standard way on the sim card | 00:52 |
| bindi | "lastname;firstname/1" <.< | 00:53 |
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| ZogG_laptop | bindi: there is thread on TMO afaik that explaines how to extrackt them from database, so you can edit them with script i think | 00:56 |
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| ZogG_laptop | parse and change | 00:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aah, a semi-standard way | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | some semi-documented semi-standardized way to have rich contacts on poor stupid sim | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | probably a Motorola, or a Sony? | 01:00 |
| bindi | sony | 01:00 |
| bindi | wait actually | 01:00 |
| bindi | sony ericsson | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | if only I could recall where I commented on it | 01:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | either it was in maemo, or rather in fso/shr domain | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | http://web.archiveorange.com/archive/v/EtLz1leWaBnIGqaOWy1p | 01:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, didn't think I'd find a comment from 2009 that fast | 01:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway seems Nokia is using that scheme as well, so it should get handled properly by HARM | 01:09 |
| bindi | well, it didn't | 01:09 |
| bindi | it's like that in the contacts | 01:09 |
| bindi | when i imported from sim | 01:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | blame HARM | 01:11 |
| bindi | i'd rather get it fixed than blame anything :p | 01:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd open a bug ticket... wait, they closed trac so no more tickets :-P | 01:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you could fix it yourself, but where's the sourcecode...? | 01:12 |
| bindi | could always install android ICS :d | 01:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I neither understand :p nor :q | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | I do understand :-P | 01:14 |
| bindi | well | 01:14 |
| bindi | i'm glad I had a 'd' and not one of those | 01:14 |
| bindi | but it was a capslock failure, what I meant was ':D' | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah | 01:14 |
| javispedro | does android also follow that scheme? | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | nfc | 01:15 |
| bindi | nfc brings to mind | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehe | 01:15 |
| bindi | nfc between N9 and galaxy nexus doesn't work :( | 01:15 |
| bindi | wait actually, it does but not everything | 01:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really any surprise | 01:15 |
| javispedro | N9 brings to mind.. | 01:15 |
| bindi | before pr 1.2 it didn't work at all, now i can send links but not pictures | 01:16 |
| javispedro | ... that I should join #n9 and start asking where it is being sold at <300eur. | 01:16 |
| bindi | got it for 299e :p | 01:16 |
| bindi | or well, my mum did | 01:16 |
| javispedro | .fi ? | 01:16 |
| bindi | ya | 01:16 |
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| javispedro | pft | 01:18 |
| javispedro | ship internationally dammit | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, it seems like extremely few EU based resellers ship out of the EU | 01:21 |
| javispedro | and no .fi resellers ship outside of .fi ;P | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | none at all? i doubt that :p | 01:21 |
| javispedro | well, i'd like to see one.... specially one of those 300eur. ones | 01:22 |
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| faenil | mmm this isn't funny | 01:27 |
| faenil | the led of my n950's kb blinks | 01:27 |
| faenil | backlight | 01:27 |
| faenil | I see the keyboard blinking... | 01:28 |
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| faenil | and when I slide the keyboard or it locks, it doesn't stop blinking...-.- | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | faenil: did you turn r&d mode on? | 01:29 |
| faenil | itsnotabigtruck, yes, marquiz made me do that to debug dualbooting issues | 01:30 |
| faenil | is that it? | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | faenil: yep, just turn that back off and you'll be set | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | does enabling that do anything useful on n9, anyway? | 01:31 |
| faenil | don't know... | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, why did (he?) have you enable it, in the first place :p | 01:32 |
| faenil | anyway, that's why my N950 was discharging faster...kb didn't stop blinking :D | 01:32 |
| faenil | itsnotabigtruck, just an attempt :P | 01:32 |
| faenil | I disabled watchdog | 01:32 |
| faenil | marquiz thought that prevented harmattan from booting in the dualboot setup | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | faenil: ah, ok, that makes sense then | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but yeah, better undo that now and disable r&d mode to stop the blinking | 01:33 |
| faenil | yeah | 01:33 |
| faenil | don't see why it should blink though :P | 01:34 |
| javispedro | so it turned out that the positioningd output is already unfiltered, despite me thinking it was filtered | 01:35 |
| javispedro | http://javispedro.com/maemo/captures/maebasecamp.png mwahaha | 01:35 |
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| Novag | x-fade if you can look into why my project isnt in appsformeego i would be greatful http://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=metro&project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AHarmattan%3AApps%3ATesting | 08:34 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Novag: odd | 08:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://repo-origin.apps.formeego.org/harmattan/apps-testing/armel/metro_1.0_armel.deb < the package itself is in the repo | 08:38 |
| Novag | why isnt it here then http://apps.formeego.com/staging/applications/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/Graphics/ | 08:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw Novag: since your package is architecture-independent, it should really be set to Architecture: all | 08:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not any or armel | 08:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no idea about that though :( | 08:41 |
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| Novag | would that be reason enough not to have it on the store? surely they would reject the package if it didnt meet the criteria | 08:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Novag: there aren't really any criteria, it's all automated | 08:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the criteria are a) does it have pics, b) does it build, c) does it have a category on the list :p | 08:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i was just saying that because i noticed your package was marked as armel, not all | 08:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | appsformeego seems to be a bit buggy, you're not the first person to have something not show up | 08:45 |
| Novag | it is only supported on N9 and N950 so shouldnt it be arm because its only supported on that device | 08:45 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Novag: but if they made a new harmattan phone that's almost the same but had atom inside, it would still be compatible | 08:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i mean, this is all theoretical, the point is that correct info is good :p | 08:46 |
| Novag | i cant claim to know that because the package doesnt work on N900 so the next version might have a different gui again which would break it, i understand your point, i just compiled it the same way other themes were done | 08:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Novag: it's not about the target platform | 08:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's about, does your package have cpu-specific files | 08:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if no, all, if yes, armel/i386/whatever | 08:48 |
| Novag | thanks, since its just a proof of concept at the moment i will update in on the next release | 08:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway...usually it takes a while for stuff to come up on the site, but i noticed your theme in the repo a few hours ago so it should be up by now :/ | 08:49 |
| sony123 | How do I gain the permission to execute 'ifconfig wlan0 up'? | 08:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: develsh | 08:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | opensh works too | 08:50 |
| sony123 | Executing it as root I got something like 'SIOCSIFFLAGS: Operation not permitted' | 08:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: i didn't say 'run it as root', did i | 08:51 |
| Novag | alright the only reason i asked why its not there is because "bossbot (bossbot) accepted request 4548 2 weeks ago " | 08:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | being root doesn't help, the CAP::net_admin credential does | 08:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | devel-su actually resets your credentials | 08:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | unlike su on a normal linux box, which would add capabilities | 08:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you need to do the ifconfig from a develsh | 08:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | being root doesn't hurt but you need to run develsh *after* devel-su | 08:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Novag: haha, ok, that's been a bit more than a few hours then :p | 08:53 |
| sony123 | itsnotabigtruck: Ok thanks I see the difference. | 08:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: it's definitely rather confusing | 08:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | normally, simply becoming root grants all linux capabilities | 08:54 |
| sony123 | itsnotabigtruck: Yeah, so a big thank you :) | 08:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: btw did you get incepted | 08:56 |
| sony123 | itsnotabigtruck: No... it's sweet but the capabilities it provides are out of my reach so I don't have it. | 09:00 |
| sony123 | itsnotabigtruck: But thanks for opening the door for other more hard-core devs | 09:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: well, it doesn't hurt to install it anyway :p | 09:06 |
| sony123 | I'll give it a try.. I saw creamy goodness has overclocking patch. | 09:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, not sure it's such a great idea but it's cool to see someone finally went ahead and did it | 09:13 |
| sony123 | You opened the flood gate :> | 09:14 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | https://twitter.com/#!/tfadp/status/185901238477537281 | 09:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :/ | 09:30 |
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| pa | btw i made the wlan "toggle" sort of, now i have to understand how i can clone and rename a project/application before publishing it, coz i started from an existing n9 application project | 11:33 |
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| phako | pa: project settings, run and expand the packaging thing | 12:26 |
| phako | it's the first thing under the list of files to install | 12:27 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | wow, nothing at all overnight? | 17:02 |
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| slin123 | hi! i've just got my first own debian package deployed on my devdays n9! | 20:04 |
| slin123 | does anybody know why i cannot uninstall it directly from the launcher? | 20:05 |
| slin123 | if i press and hold no red cross appears. | 20:05 |
| slin123 | i cann uninstall from the application manager though. | 20:06 |
| jonni | slin123: depends if you installed the package through the ui, or with dpkg from commandline. | 20:09 |
| jonni | or your desktop file. | 20:10 |
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| slin123 | ah ok. i'll try installing using a file manager. | 20:12 |
| slin123 | thanks | 20:12 |
| SpeedEvil | slin123: Congrats! | 20:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | slin123: install using pkgmgr install-file -f foo.deb | 20:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that installs through the same mechanism as the gui | 20:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also you should put XB-MeeGo-Desktop-Entry-Filename in your debian/control but that doesn't always seem to do anything | 20:15 |
| slin123 | well, sometimes harmattan docs are kind of lacking information... | 20:16 |
| slin123 | thanks for your advise! | 20:17 |
| slin123 | oh. baby cries! must leave. good night. | 20:18 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | slin123: oh, and make sure to get incepted | 20:20 |
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| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: drug dealer =) | 20:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: lol | 20:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it seems like a huge portion of irc 'dropins' haven't heard of it, so i might as well spam it when i have the chance :p | 20:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | especially since inception taking off is entirely dependent on developers doing cool things with it | 20:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: btw account may have 3 plugins i need to write =) | 20:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | one for webupload lib, one for creation and account managment, one for sync (if i want sync) | 20:44 |
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| pa | any alternative pdf reader for harmattan, so far? | 20:47 |
| pa | like okular, evince or xpdf | 20:47 |
| pa | the integrated one sucks.. many pdf cannot even be opened | 20:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: damn :/ | 20:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | think you're up to it? | 20:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the docs aren't exactly excellent | 20:55 |
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| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: i think it would be ready when 2 meego phones would be released | 21:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: so never then? | 21:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that was an unsubstantiated rumor | 21:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | maybe i'll be able to do it oneday | 21:34 |
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| dm8tbr | ZogG_laptop: in that context a quote from #mer | 21:37 |
| dm8tbr | 12:50:20< dm8tbr> we could have pointed him to _today's_ Nokia press release in which they repent, abandon MS and go full out MeeGo and that MeltMeCheese | 21:37 |
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| ZogG_laptop | dm8tbr: i know what day today | 21:42 |
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| tehdely | that would be a funny joke for nokia to play | 22:20 |
| teleshoes | anyone wanna find out if n9-button-monitor works for them, to do: volume_up key to toggle torch/flashlight and focus-then-snap pictures in camera app? | 22:23 |
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| teleshoes | anyone know how to start/stop/skip/next the built-in shitty music player with cli? | 23:02 |
| Anssi138 | maybe with dbus command. | 23:09 |
| teleshoes | scrounging hasnt turned anything up | 23:09 |
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| teleshoes | so i just found it | 23:11 |
| teleshoes | the interface at least, using dbus-monitor | 23:11 |
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| teleshoes | qdbus com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuiteService / com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuite | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | Interface.resumePlayback | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | qdbus com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuiteService / com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuite | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | Interface.pausePlayback | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | qdbus com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuiteService / com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuite | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | Interface.next | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | qdbus com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuiteService / com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuite | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | Interface.previous | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | oops, irc, right | 23:33 |
| teleshoes | qdbus com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuiteService / com.nokia.maemo.meegotouch.MusicSuiteInterface.resumePlayback | 23:34 |
| teleshoes | resumePlayback/pausePlayback/next/previous | 23:34 |
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| Venemo | hi | 23:45 |
| Venemo | does Fedora contain the X11 multitouch patches yet? | 23:45 |
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| Venemo | eh, wrong channel, sorry | 23:48 |
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