IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2012-03-30

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Sazpaimonmy N9 doesnt like it when i feed it a kernel command like it seems00:52
Sazpaimonthe device just switches off00:52
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teleshoeshey, itsnotabigtruck00:53
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itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: 'sup00:54
teleshoesi have a question about dependencies, apt-get, ovi store, and inception00:54
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: shoot00:54
teleshoesi have a script that some folks would like me to package up in a deb00:54
teleshoesit has some dependencies on harmattan-dev debs00:55
teleshoesthat disqualifies it from the store, right?00:55
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: unless you figure out a way to merge those dependencies into the single deb, yeah00:55
teleshoesmm, yea its a bunch of python libs00:55
itsnotabigtruckwhich is uber ugly00:55
teleshoesi have no interest in doing that, really00:56
teleshoesbut say i wanted to set this up so someone with inception could do it easily00:56
teleshoesi have no problem posting a bunch of debs00:56
teleshoesand then having them incept mine00:56
teleshoesdoes this work? would normal users be able to do this?00:57
teleshoesopinion-wise, i mean. not everyday users, either, just non-developer power users00:57
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teleshoesalso, do you think i should bother aegis-izing the deb?00:58
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teleshoesdebs include, e.g.: python-qmsystem, from harmattan/sdk/free01:01
teleshoeswait wait wait, i dont think i use any debs from harmattan/sdk01:02
teleshoesnew question:01:02
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: well, is inception even needed?01:02
teleshoesto install MY deb01:02
teleshoesi assume it is01:02
itsnotabigtruckif your package doesn't assert credentials outside of the developer set, the answer is no01:02
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itsnotabigtruckif you don't have a manifest, then you aren't asserting any credentials01:02
itsnotabigtruckhowever a lot of qmsystem stuff requires credentials01:03
teleshoesi put an upstart script in /etc/init01:03
teleshoesand im pretty sure qmkeys uses something01:03
teleshoesbut i havent investigated it too closely01:03
teleshoesso assuming that i DO need some aegis credentials01:05
teleshoeswill incept install the dependencies, itsnotabigtruck?01:05
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: nope, it wraps dpkg -i01:06
itsnotabigtrucki'd use pkgmgr instead but not everything someone wants to install is a "user package"01:06
teleshoesok, so ill have to have them incept, apt-get -f install, incept01:06
teleshoesiiiiii dont know anything about pkgmgr01:07
itsnotabigtrucktry it without inception and see if there's an issue01:07
teleshoesok, will do01:07
rhkfinitsnotabigtruck: what else inception does beside disabling aegis?01:08
itsnotabigtruckrhkfin: well, it doesn't disable aegis01:08
itsnotabigtruckit creates a 'domain' in aegis that's fully trusted01:08
itsnotabigtruckand gives you a program (incept) that lets you install programs as fully trusted01:08
rhkfinah, I see. Neat!01:08
itsnotabigtruckso if you install something normally, it's just like before, but if you incept something, it can access any privilege01:09
itsnotabigtruckand most of the really interesting privileges aren't available normally01:09
itsnotabigtruckalso, through that, you can install programs like shells that allow you to access those privileges directly01:09
rhkfinso it doesn't 'break' the existing system but makes it possible to.. enable c00l things for apps01:10
itsnotabigtrucklike su/sudo do for the root user on regular linux01:10
itsnotabigtruckright, pretty much01:10
itsnotabigtruckbtw does dpkg pay attention to the order of packages specified to dpkg -i01:11
rhkfinneat. I wasn't able to find this on the inception site, that's why I asked.01:12
teleshoesalso, it would be nice if someone made it easy to disable aegis completely with inception01:13
rhkfinteleshoes: good enough?01:14
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teleshoesmm, forgot about this, thx01:16
itsnotabigtruckthat doesn't completely eliminate aegis but it does let you turn the validator off during a boot01:16
teleshoeswait, permissive mode isnt as eliminated as aegis gets?01:17
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: check out the aegisctl help01:17
itsnotabigtruckas in the inline -? help01:17
itsnotabigtrucki haven't experimented with turning off the validator much and jonni thinks it's a really bad idea01:18
itsnotabigtruckthat's why the more unusual configs are gated on the --really switch01:19
teleshoesmm, i see01:19
teleshoesso as like an example for what id like to be really easy, and it might be with an aegisctl flag,01:19
teleshoeswould be to not have 'killall sshd' say 'permission denied'01:19
teleshoesas root user01:19
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rhkfinHey anyone got any idea how to get to work with the .calendar dir?01:20
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: there's no easy way to turn SECUREBITS_NOROOT or whatever it's called, off01:20
rhkfinA friend has messed up his calendar but also can't access the folder (it's owned by calendar user..)01:20
teleshoesmm, i see, thanks01:20
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: it's not precisely an aegis thing, either01:20
teleshoesi know open mode lets me do it np01:21
teleshoesso i figured it was aegis-y01:21
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itsnotabigtrucksort of, but the modded open mode kernel lets you do that because it was hacked to do that01:21
teleshoesi guess this is an openmode! thing01:21
itsnotabigtruckthe key is understanding that on linux, there's UID=0, and there's linux capabilities01:21
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itsnotabigtruckjust having UID=0 doesn't necessarily give you any root powers01:21
itsnotabigtruckbut on a normal linux system, doing setuid(0) magically adds all the linux capabilities, and so does running a setuid root file01:22
itsnotabigtruckhowever, it's possible to run a linux system such that it isn't the case01:22
itsnotabigtruckthe aegis validator forces that mode on01:22
itsnotabigtruckthe important thing is that capabilities and root are separate not just in aegis but in linux in general, and you can't just assume that one means the other01:23
teleshoesi dont really know what it is, exactly, that SECUREBITS_NOROOT is01:23
teleshoesi assume i cant kill sshd because theres some root permission i dont have01:24
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: it's a mode that disables the setuid magic01:24
itsnotabigtruckright, the permission is CAP::kill01:24
teleshoesand i can enable that01:24
itsnotabigtruckit's not a restricted one, develsh provides it01:24
teleshoeswith aegis-exec01:24
itsnotabigtrucksort of, aegis-exec only lets you enable capabilities if you have tcb capability01:24
itsnotabigtruckerm, the tcb credential01:24
teleshoeswhoosh, over my head01:24
itsnotabigtrucktcb = uber root01:25
teleshoesi see01:25
teleshoesso develsh01:25
itsnotabigtruckit's the credential that allows control over aegis01:25
teleshoesyour inceptdo would let me01:25
itsnotabigtruckyou could do develsh -c 'kill something', opensh -c 'kill something', or inceptdo kill something01:25
itsnotabigtruckany of those would work01:25
teleshoesand inceptdo will let us change any arbitrary linux root priv, right?01:26
itsnotabigtruckwell, it'll enable all the linux root privileges01:26
teleshoesinceptdo does more than develsh,01:26
itsnotabigtrucki decided to go the naive route and just make it enable everything01:26
teleshoeswhich does a subset01:26
teleshoesi see01:27
teleshoesi thought there was going to be a nothing-mode that let you use aegis-exec01:27
teleshoesto specify which you want01:27
itsnotabigtruckdevelsh = activates the developer credentials (the ones that peons are allowed to use) and launches a shell01:27
itsnotabigtruckopensh = activates all credentials and launches a shell, it's just a slightly modded version of develsh01:27
teleshoesok, this is great, i have much more information than i had01:28
itsnotabigtruckinceptdo = activates all credentials, asks for a password, launches the specified program01:28
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itsnotabigtruckwell that was abrupt :p01:31
DrGrovYo, evening to all01:34
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Hi there. Perhaps you got some time to clarify one minor detail for me?01:35
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Feels like I have been away for too long, not following the progress it seems01:35
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: yeah shoot01:35
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Meltemi is exactly what?01:35
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: what's going to replace S40 (their dumbphone OS)01:36
itsnotabigtruckit might have some maemo/meego stuff in it, but it's not meego01:36
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Okay, roger that. Now I am following again. Is there any information about this somewhere?01:36
itsnotabigtruckdespite what the bloggers claim (with no verification)01:36
itsnotabigtruckvery little because it's all rumor01:36
itsnotabigtruckthere isn't much info beyond what i just told you, really01:37
itsnotabigtruckall that's really 100% is that it exists and it's destined to replace s4001:37
DrGrovOk, good to know at least that it is verified to exist.01:38
DrGrovAt least something01:38
DrGrovThanks itsnotabigtruck01:39
faenilthe commercial name should be Smarterphones?01:39
itsnotabigtruckPreparing to replace redacted (using redacted) ...01:40
itsnotabigtruckrm: can't remove 'redacted': Permission denied01:40
itsnotabigtruckwhat? :/01:40
itsnotabigtrucki thought preinst scripts ran as root unless you specify otherwise01:40
DrGrovAnyone using Home screen settings app? I am reading about some "Live wallpapers" feature in it.01:41
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: yeah, it lets you set this sine wave animation as a background on the home screen01:41
itsnotabigtruck(not the lock screen)01:41
itsnotabigtruckit isn't that great but it's neat to try01:41
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ah, is it cool then?01:41
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: How do I set the actual background wallpaper? I need to create a own wallpaper first?01:42
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itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: something like that01:47
itsnotabigtruckit won't be live though01:47
Enforcerlive wallpaper sounds very bad for battery ;)01:52
Enforcerand meltemi sounds like it'll be a maemo 'based' replacement for anything between asha and lumia01:54
faenilEnforcer, yeah01:55
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Sazpaimonhow do I specify a kernel command like that *wont* cause my device to shut down immediately?02:26
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itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: if you're trying to do it from flasher, i think doing that is blocked02:30
Sazpaimoneven though its a valid argument?02:31
Sazpaimonit takes my argument, and sends it to the device, but then it immediately shuts down02:31
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Sazpaimonalso, can i clear out mtd3?02:53
Sazpaimonso I can get a fresh kernel log02:54
Sazpaimondd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/mtd3 gives me an invalid argument error02:54
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itsnotabigtruckheh, i just realized that accli -I inquires about its /parent process'/ aegis state03:43
itsnotabigtruckrather than its own03:43
itsnotabigtruckwhich explains why aegis-exec accli -I and aegis-exec sh -c 'accli -I' produce drastically different results03:48
itsnotabigtruckanyone still here, who has open mode running?03:51
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tgalalSazpaimon: hey I did follow your advice :P04:24
tgalalbasically I automated it04:24
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: meh, lacks the charm of sazpaimon's approach though04:27
itsnotabigtruckmake it count how many times the button is pushed and say wazapp has been delayed by 1 more week each time :p04:28
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tgalalitsnotabigtruck: lol nice one04:34
tgalalI will04:34
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itsnotabigtruckanyone on?05:27
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denismhi, does anybody knows, which runlevels N9 has?08:44
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jonnidenism: [023456]09:06
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denismjonni: thank you, do you know where is a list of names for them for dsmetool -t ?09:07
denism(like for example 2 or 5 = shutdown)09:08
jonniafaik dsmetool uses numbers for runlevels09:10
denismunluckily no, it requires names :( at least the receiver says: got telinit '2' from pid 3133: /sbin/dsmetool ignoring unknown telinit runlevel request09:11
denismand 'dsmetool -t shutdown' works properly09:12
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jonnidenism: not all runlevels can be entered with dsmetool, but you have "shutdown, user, actdead and reboot" which it accepts as parameter.09:48
DocScrutinizerand N9 is particularly funny about actdead - even ssh sessions via WLAN survive transitions user->actdead09:49
jonniand serial console getty connection survices also :)09:50
DocScrutinizerso basically actdead just means: display disabled, really shut down when USB eventually unplugged09:50
jonniwell it kills some processes09:50
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders what actdead will result in when no USB plugged in09:50
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DocScrutinizeror am I just confused by powerbutton actually doing actdead instead of shutdown when usb (charger) plugged in?09:53
DocScrutinizeralso, what's dsme shutdown going to do when device is charging?09:54
jonniDocScrutinizer: nope with powerbutton state changes to SHUTDOWN09:54
jonnibut yes, after shutdown if you have usb icon showing in the screen then you are in initlevel 5 (actdead)09:55
DocScrutinizersince there's no real powerdown state as long as device hooked up to a power source and thus charging09:56
denismjonni: thank you09:56
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rdnzlusing screenSaverDelayed from qml works as expected but i'm having org.freedesktop.DBus.Error.AccessDenied errors in sdk's application output window - do i need some aegis magic to silence this?11:37
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KhertanHow can i manage text highlight in a TextArea, i mean i want to color some words, i need to use pseudo <html> syntax ... but ... this mean i need to get all text, remove previous html tag, parse it, and set it ... each time onTextChanged, as there is no way to set partial text, or get information on partial changes, someone have another idea ?12:12
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rigoKHertan, use CSS12:14
Khertanrigo ?12:15
Khertancss ? to highlight text ?12:15
Khertanhow ?12:15
rigoby having a CSS class with a certain forground/background color and wrapping <span class="yourclass">highlighted text</span>12:16
Khertanyeah .... of course12:16
Khertanthis solve nothing12:17
rigodunno which capacities the thing has, but if the rendering is based on web stuff ...12:17
Khertanyou need to parse the text on onTextChanged signal remove all span, parse the text, put span, put the result in the TextArea.text12:17
Khertanrigo: which capacity TextArea have ?12:18
rigoah, ok, just triggered by the "web" keyword. Don't know how they handle this internally.12:18
rigoin general terms, you need a selector to manipulate that selector with CSS12:19
Khertan(i never talk about web ... :) but didn't precise that it was a qml TextArea :) )12:19
rigospan is such a selector12:19
Khertanbut yeah i know how manipulate things in html :)12:20
Khertanwith js12:20
rigoso if this is using pseudo web (dunno how far), the way is to create a selector and then manipulate the selector12:20
Khertanit s pseudo html :) not pseudo web :)12:20
rigosur, JS is always the more complex option ;)12:20
Khertanas you cna't manipulate the content of a TextArea12:20
KhertanGet and Set text is the only methods managing the content12:21
Khertana bit limited12:21
rigobut if the content of TextArea already contains your selector, you can address it without parsing, changing and re-injecting12:21
Khertanit s qml ... not javascript ... you can't set partial content12:22
Khertanalso can't retrieve partial content12:22
Khertannor knowing what have been updated on textChanged12:22
rigo=> not for me anymore, sorry12:23
Khertani ve try many work arround to avoid qml12:23
Khertanbut last update on harmattan breaks the QTextEdit widget ... or something else in the QProxyWidget12:24
Khertanso KhtEditor segfault12:24
Khertanand the only way arround is to rewrite it with something officially supported12:24
rigoand I have no clue what is officially supported12:25
rigoyou'll have to wait for jonni12:25
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ZogG_laptopsup dudes12:32
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dm8tbrnot mucken futch12:57
ieatlinti learnt that oven + alcohol can equal 2nd degree burn13:05
ieatlintalso, pizza13:06
derameasily.. also lumps of coal when combined with not enough sleep in past day13:08
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pacan i use the same firmware for flashing the 16 and the 64 version of N9?15:06
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denismpa: yes15:06
paok thanks :)15:08
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Khertansomeone have voodoo dolls of the inventors of QML at Trolltech/Nokia ?15:32
Khertanwant to offer some voodoo pin's15:32
* jonni hides behind a tree15:34
X-FadeKhertan: spotify:track:0IYlWIpSsxobpYlFz38VbJ15:35
X-FadeOr even :)15:35
KhertanX-Fade: already listening :!/s/Please+Destroy+This+World/4cjNU0?src=515:40
X-FadeKhertan: Ah, nice and quiet song :)15:41
KhertanI listening that when i want to relax15:41
X-FadeOh yes, very relaxing song.. Real chill out music.15:43
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KhertanX-Fade: if you prefer french dark female voice :!/s/Pourquoi/32rlQZ?src=516:05
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itsnotabigtruckanyone on with open mode running16:54
itsnotabigtruckKhertan pa denism ieatlint deram ZogG_laptop ^16:55
Khertanwhat did you call "open mode" ?17:00
Khertandevel mode ?17:00
Khertanor kernel without aegis ?17:00
deramopen mode is with open kernel, I presume, and no, just devel mode on my device17:02
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Khertanitsnotabigtruck: so just devel mode here17:02
itsnotabigtruckderam Khertan: i meant, any configuration that produces the disclaimer on boot17:03
itsnotabigtruckit doesn't have to be a special kernel, in fact it's better if it's not17:03
deramno disclamer, I'm still within the warranty17:04
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pano, i still try to believe it's ok to keep aegis there, but probably not for long..17:15
paquestion: is it normal that , when i use earphones (the stock nokia earphones) to call17:17
paand i just call, and nothing else, the sound sucks hard?17:18
pabut if i start using the phone during the call, then it's ok17:18
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paperhaps it's coz of call recorder17:28
pais by the way anyone using it?17:37
pai tried to record calls while i was using the earphones17:37
paand i cannot hear the voice from the caller17:38
pamine i can17:38
paprobably it's because the microphone used is the one on the headset17:39
pahm i tried with another without micro, but it's the same17:46
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rigopa, interesting18:11
rigoI have it, but did not try it so far18:12
pai remember i coul record some calls properly18:12
pabut without earphones18:12
rigohm, curious, because the micro is redirected ok, but the sound isn't18:14
ZogG_laptopi recorded without headphones18:14
rigounless the phone was nearby, the micro good enough and thus the phone micro recorded your voice, not the micro of the headset18:15
rigoand the speaker in the phone was deactivated thus no signal there, thus no recording18:15
ZogG_laptopi said without =)18:16
rigopa was with18:17
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itsnotabigtruck ZogG_laptop: open mode?18:20
KhertanWhat type of rich text support QML TextArea ?18:24
Khertanonly pseudo "html" ? RTF isn't supported ?18:24
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: nope18:27
ZogG_laptopKhertan: i think it is18:27
KhertanZogG_laptop: doesn't look like :)18:36
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Khertan{\rtf1 ... doesn't works18:40
Khertandoesn't support too <span>18:41
Khertanvoooodddooooo doll's needed here !18:44
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itsnotabigtruckspeed x is pretty cool, but it lacks volume control19:18
itsnotabigtrucklooks like they forgot to include the policy file19:18
itsnotabigtrucker, except it does include a policy file19:24
pa20 nok19:24
pamaybe i buy it19:24
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padid anybody try FCam?19:27
pai was looking at the api19:27
pai saw that the focus is expressed in diopters19:28
pais there any way to convert it to/from meters?19:28
SpeedEvil1/10 dioptres = m19:30
SpeedEvilso 1 dioptre = 10cm19:30
SpeedEvil1 dioptre = 1m, 2 = .5m, 4 = .25m, ...19:31
SpeedEvilreciprocal metres19:31
paah i see19:31
pabut i guess it's not possible to use the camera as distance meter19:31
paat least not for too long distances19:32
SpeedEvilIf you read out the distance of maximum sharpness, and calibrate19:32
SpeedEvilBut only under a couple of meters or so19:32
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villageryeah... I once wanted to make an app for distance measurement that way, but found that you it doesn't take many meters to get to max focus anyway, so with such a limit, it wouldn't be too useful for what I wanted...20:06
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rishiDoes anyone know how N9 implements the Accounts -> Google feature. It does not offer the usual OAuth web page. I am wondering whether it does something clever or not?20:28
itsnotabigtruckrishi: i don't think it uses oauth20:28
itsnotabigtruckbut i'm not sure what it uses20:28
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itsnotabigtruckto reiterate, anyone here running open mode?20:32
itsnotabigtruckrishi villager SpeedEvil ^20:32
rishiitsnotabigtruck: What is it? :-) Another name for the developer mode?20:33
itsnotabigtruckrishi: nah, it lets you boot custom kernels and disable aegis 'officially', at the cost of complexity and a scary warranty void screen20:35
rishiitsnotabigtruck: Then, no.20:35
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Sazpaimoni cant get kexec to work :/21:29
Sazpaimonit just keeps resetting back to the original kernel21:29
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jpwhitingitsnotabigtruck: hey there, have you developed any harmattan apps yet?23:48
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itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: what do you count as an 'app' :p23:51
itsnotabigtrucki haven't built any fancy user friendly gui apps, if that's what you mean23:52
jpwhitingitsnotabigtruck: well, any app really, I'm making a remember the milk app for MeeGo, but have a question23:52
itsnotabigtruckbut i'd imagine you've noticed my other projects23:52
jpwhitingmainly I don't see how to have a subclass of QApplication to hold all the app logic23:53
jpwhitingwith slots and such23:53
jpwhitingbecause of the createApplication() booster thing23:53
jpwhitingguess I could have a regular QObject to hold all that stuff instead23:54
itsnotabigtruckno idea about that...have you installed inception?23:54
jpwhitingno, what's inception?23:54
itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: :O23:55
* jpwhiting kind of lurks here, but doesn't usually pay much attention, my bad23:55
* jpwhiting looks23:55

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