IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-03-22

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rm_workso you, jaffa and tim all dropped from the council?00:00
GeneralAntillesThat was, like, 7 years ago.00:00
GeneralAntillesNow we just editorialize from mwkn00:01
rm_workMarch 2011 :P00:01
parm_work, given the situation of nokia these days, i wouldnt be surprised of some major strategy change at some point in time (not too far)00:01
rm_workfrom what to what? lol00:01
paor a bankrupt/acquisition by someone (M$)00:02
rm_workthey're already "woo microsoft go"00:02
GeneralAntillesLike I said, 13 years ago.00:02
rm_worka strategy change to being bankrupt? yeah maybe :P00:02
javispedrowhich GUI toolkit has Nokia never used?00:02
itsnotabigtruckcan't say i understand the point of having a "community council"00:02
rm_worki actually have had people commenting on how awesome my Lumia 800 looks...00:02
rm_workeven non-phone people00:02
rm_worknokia's design is just GOOD.00:02
itsnotabigtruckit's an inherently totally bureaucratic concept00:02
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, not really00:02
rm_workit's sad they're crippled by such a horrible management and marketing philosophy00:03
GeneralAntillesIt was actually pretty useful back when Maemo was actually going places.00:03
GeneralAntillesFacilitation is the primary mission.00:03
GeneralAntillesI vote we replace Elop with @ceoStephenElop00:03
itsnotabigtruckinstead of fussing about with "technical steering groups" and "community councils" and elections and whatnot, how about making not terrible, and building some cool stuff for maemo/harmattan/whatever00:04
GeneralAntillesThe Twitter parody account.00:04
javispedrothe one who wanted to outsource Meego development to Burger King?00:04
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, yeah, that was a fundamental part of it back in the day.00:04
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, yeah, that one.00:04
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, i.e., facilitation.00:04
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately when nothing's really happening energy tends to shift towards bureaucratization.00:05
GeneralAntillesWhich is a large part of why I stopped running for election.00:05
rm_worklol his tweets are awesome00:05
GeneralAntillesNokia would still be like watching a car crassh00:07
GeneralAntillesbut at least it'd be a /hilarious/ car crash.00:08
pahey, they still sell $20 phones00:08
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* RST38h yawns, swallows a fly00:22
GeneralAntillesI don't know why he swallowed that fly. Perhaps he'll die?00:24
MohammadAGtwitter, the fastest way to spread something00:24
MohammadAGCurrently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 29 (2 members and 27 guests)00:25
RST38hthe fastest way to spread something is with herpes00:25
RST38htwitter isn't even close00:25
* javispedro clicks on the link to somehow try to prove that IRC is actually more herperitic than twitter00:25
GeneralAntillesIs there a distribution graph of follower counts?00:26
GeneralAntilles833 must put you in the top %1.00:26
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rm_workwell, i'm off00:26
rm_worktalk to you next month :P00:26
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, that'd be interesting, but guess not00:26
rm_work(or whenever anyone pings me)00:26
MohammadAGrm_work, why so soon00:26
rm_workwhy off so soon today, or why talk to you guys in ONLY one month? :P00:27
MohammadAGlatter of course00:27
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rm_workbecause i'll prolly be bored by then :P00:27
javispedroyou dare bring light to our lair?00:27
rm_workand now, off work, so heading home00:27
javispedroyou must die!00:27
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javispedro:P cya00:28
GeneralAntillesI really hope we get more conferences of some color or another.00:30
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GeneralAntillesSucks not having those.00:30
MohammadAGMeh, couldn't attend any00:30
javispedrowe can always go to the next apple conference00:30
MohammadAGisn't that now?00:30
RST38hno more conferences00:30
RST38hwhat conferences do you expect anyway?00:30
GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, one more reason why we need more.00:30
GeneralAntillesfiferboy was talking about crashing a Tizen conf.00:31
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MohammadAGI'd be embarrassed to go to that :P00:31
RST38hThere will only be corporate employees sent there because they had to00:31
javispedrothat means there will be plenty of food?00:32
RST38hdunno, but if Intel is organizing it, do not expect one of those Maemo confs00:32
GeneralAntillesWe stuff it full of Maemo people, get drunk and reminisce.00:32
javispedroshould be telling that when I put Tizen Conference on Google it wants me to go to some Tisen Conference00:35
MohammadAGor we could all meetup somewhere00:35
MohammadAGI always wanted to check out the bermuda triangle00:35
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG, Jerusalem =)00:35
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, we don't want customs holding javispedro00:36
javispedrothey don't want to hold me either00:36
javispedroon the topic of interesting places to meet, I heard they found water on mars00:37
javispedrothink of it -- no customs, no immigration00:38
MohammadAGI probably need a visa00:39
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RST38hno humans00:43
MohammadAGRST38h, still, I probably need a visa00:44
RST38hat least you do not need 12 medical tests like myself00:47
RST38hincluding lepra test =)00:47
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macmaNuhh MohammadAG00:59
macmaNwhat exactly are those PR12 sources00:59
macmaNhow are these different from stuff on nokia websites00:59
MohammadAGmacmaN, Nokia doesn't have them00:59
macmaNdoesnt offer them you mean?01:00
MohammadAGlibc6 is version m6 on nokia's servers, this has m7 for example01:00
MohammadAGmacmaN, yes, they're ripped from their source DVD01:00
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macmaNhmm, and you're allowed to put them up for download?01:00
macmaNoh ok01:00
MohammadAGmacmaN, GPL code01:00
RST38hMohammad: BTW, what are those voip/gtalk "diversions" in the latest cssu?01:01
RST38hanything useful?01:01
MohammadAGRST38h, afaik those were uninstalled when you installed the CSSU01:02
MohammadAGwe just depended on them again01:02
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npmyay, my dream back-end just materialized in the clouds:
npm== http://trainspodder.com02:20
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* Dante_J greets the room02:24
itsnotabigtruckmacmaN: to be specific, the site has PR1.0 code02:27
itsnotabigtruckthe entire sdk is PR1.0 and nokia refuses to update it02:27
itsnotabigtruckthe sources for the newer releases are only distributed on DVD by request, and fortunately people have imaged those and uploaded them02:27
itsnotabigtruckbut you can't get them from any official nokia site02:27
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npmmy view from the clouds:
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npmmy cloud to ssh:
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rZrdo u know more on those errors :07:43
rZr“Can't install” “Invalid Installation package”07:43
psycho_oreosdoesn't really tell me much, why not run it through console?07:43
rZrdpkg -i *.deb does not complain07:44
itsnotabigtruckis life. no. demorez.07:44
itsnotabigtruckalso rzr: try pkgmgr install-file -f package.deb07:45
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djszapiHey, is there a channel bot for logging outside the MeeGo (or rather: Open Mobile Linux) world ?07:46
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: hm? lots of other channels have log bots on them, e.g. #debian07:48
itsnotabigtrucki'm not much of a fan of public channel logging, it's rather invasive07:48
itsnotabigtruckimmortalizes stuff that shouldn't be immortalized07:48
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berndhsevening folks07:50
itsnotabigtruckhey berndhs07:51
djszapiit would be nice if logger bot could be invited to channels without setting up one on my own, maintain it and also taking care of the server for publishing.07:51
berndhshas anyone else seen problems with logging into skype the last week or so ? from a n950 ?07:51
berndhsdjszapi: yes a logger bot separate from an answer bot would be cool07:52
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: doing that without consulting the ops and the regulars would be rather...impolite, though07:53
djszapiberndhs: yep, I would like to find one I can invite to a channel, but that is not an open mobile linux channel after all, so _MeeGoBot_ would be weird. :)07:53
itsnotabigtruckoh, i guess this is a new channel you're setting up07:55
berndhswhat stops you from running your own bot ? dont have a server that can answer, like behind a NAT or something like that ?07:56
itsnotabigtruckkeep in mind that the freenode website explicitly discourages setting up log bots07:57
djszapiberndhs: I do not have, plus I guess it would need a decent amount of scripting that I am not good at. :)07:57
berndhsyou have get out from behind your NAT for $0, that's not really a problem07:57
berndhsbut some of the bots need some tricky setting up07:58
djszapithat is the whole thing about, I would not like to set it up for several reasons.07:58
djszapihence, asking if there is already a logger bot I can just invite.07:59
berndhsyes it needs some maintenance, true07:59
berndhsthis really sucks, n950 doesnt dot skype any more08:04
berndhsor maybe is my service provier08:04
berndhsconspiracy !08:04
DocScrutinizeresp any bots are subject to ban, when not announced and welcome by the chan owner or mods08:05
infobotI don't like company usually08:06
berndhsi especially dont like when the UI tells me to get a new account when the whole skype or twitter API is broken :(08:10
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rZritsnotabigtruck: well i want it to be installed through the deb handler ie: webbrowser08:11
berndhsi didnt forget my password, it works on all other devices, i dont need a new account :(08:12
berndhsgood night, im going to sleep08:16
itsnotabigtruckrzr: just test that and see if it works08:17
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itsnotabigtruckthe point isn't to have users do that, the point is to test if it works08:17
rZrthis doesnt explain how to fix this08:20
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itsnotabigtruckrzr: try it08:22
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itsnotabigtruckand see if it fails08:23
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rZrit does08:24
itsnotabigtruckrzr: does it give an error message?08:26
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rZrhi e-yes08:42
rZrand congratz for n releaes08:42
e-yesrZr, thx08:42
rZrjust side question08:44
rZrit should not be more difficult to support n950 too ?08:44
itsnotabigtruckrzr: did you get an error message from pkgmgr?08:45
itsnotabigtrucke-yes: hm, so you figured out the pr1.2 cmt 3g problem?08:46
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rZritsnotabigtruck: it's fixed now ... had to remove an existing package ( non user/* ) ...08:55
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* ieatlint highly recommends seeing the movie "the fp", but only while drunk and with friends10:36
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Andy1210hey, whats the diffrent between N950 and N9's kernel?10:52
jonnithere is no difference10:58
ieatlinti'm also unaware of any difference... the SoC should be identical10:58
Andy1210I like to install Nitdroid ICS on my N950, but the patched openmode/dualboot kernel doesn't work on it.11:08
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jonniwell nobody in here uses nitroid, you should ask that question in nitroid forums or channel.11:11
jonniAndy1210: but in theory kernel should work in both, it might be that you need to flash it with different ape algo (you cannot use 07-1) so if you follow N9 instructions blindly you will fail on flashing11:15
jonni(you need to use ape algo from n950 firmware)11:16
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Andy1210<slaine> Andy1210: There was a tweet about an hour ago that would indicate the N950 isn't supported as of yet.11:40
Andy1210 So that was the problem :)11:40
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KhertanMorning !12:18
KhertanSomeone know a way programmaticaly to know if a file is under aegis protection ?12:18
KhertanThe goal : avoid that the autosave feature modify that he should not, exemple when you want to read a file that is installed by a package12:19
ieatlintyes, there's a file that contains hashes of aegis-controlled files that you can check12:20
ieatlinti don't recall it, but hopefully someone in here does12:20
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
Khertanieatlint: thx12:20
KhertanSomeone know how to restart the csd ?12:25
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jonniKhertan:  grep filenamewithoutpth /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist      if it returns hit its protected12:37
jonniKhertan: and "stop csd; start csd;" runned as root12:39
Khertanjonni: thx, i hope that fix my loss of network :)12:42
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jonniKhertan:   if you paste that file as,    you can run: "perl filename" and it returns warning if file is protected12:52
jonni(made oneliner for you) :)12:52
Khertanhéhé thx you but i ll implement that directly in my soft instead of calling perl :)12:54
jonniand ofcourse that is not 100% safe, since there are few files that are not protected by aegis refhashlist, but protected by swcert on lower level :)12:56
jonni(but is enough for most of the usecases... as most likely your not messing with core coles hopefully)12:58
jonnicoles=files, typo day13:00
Khertanand anyway normally user can't edit those files13:02
Khertanbut just in case some run it as root with autosave feature13:02
Khertanand made unwanted modifiations13:03
KhertanKhtSimpleText 0.3.1 released in Apps4MeeGo :
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Khertan Need your help for QA ! Thx13:37
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rlinfatiHi, how i can contact the repository admin of ?14:38
rlinfatithe file has the checksum of free/source/Sources at the end, and that is wrong, they need to be in the md5/sha1/sha256 section14:41
rigorlinfati, this is IMHO a known bug that they refused to fix since a  long time14:42
rigobut there is a workaround14:44
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rlinfatiwhat is the workaround14:46
rigo thanks to itsnotabigtruck, you can remove the file indicating the sig and install directly with dpkg -i15:00
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Saz|MobileIs there an on-device kernel flasher yet?15:23
jonniSaz|Mobile: yes and no. No for end users.15:25
rlinfatiSaz|Mobile fiasco-flasher15:25
Saz|MobileMeaning it cant be used on the N9?15:26
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Sazpaimonyay dead zones15:43
Sazpaimonis it some NDA thing?15:43
Sazpaimonor are we talking about the fremantle fiasco-flasher15:44
jonninaah, fiasco-flasher just checks the checksum for the kernel from certificate, so it only allows nokia kernels to be flashed15:46
Sazpaimonoh well it would help if I checked /usr/sbin15:46
jonniit is on device yes, but not usable for custom kernels15:46
Sazpaimonis that a change from fremantle?15:47
Sazpaimoniirc you could fhash custom kernels using the fiasco-flasher15:47
Sazpaimoni remember back when overclocking was frst being started15:47
jonnihavent looked the sources for a while, afaik ssu uses it and if I remember right it only allows kernels that match swcert to be flashed. But ofcourse you can always try it out to see if I remember wrong.15:49
Sazpaimonunless fiasco-flasher needs an actual fiasco file15:51
Sazpaimonand not just a zimage15:51
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Sazpaimonand i dont think sdk-fiasco-gen is available publicly16:07
Sazpaimonoh well16:07
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rlinfatifiasco-gen_3.11.5+0m6_i386.deb in the nokia-binaries public repository16:17
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Avengenceanyone know how to see what happens when the nokia store is trying to install a package?16:48
Avengenceflashplayer consiustently fails to install from the store and now the 11.0 update to firefox is saying download failed after the bar reaches the end16:48
Avengenceideally i could just run apt-get and see what its getting stuck on (as with the devtools packages that depend on libc6-dbg) but I'm guessing thre's no way to download the .deb files directly16:50
KhertanAvengence: did you have reboot it ?16:51
Avengencerebooted since the flashplayer fail several times to no avail16:51
Avengencethe firefox update fail just happened and that's when i decided to stop by as it means its not just one defective package16:52
Khertanon 3G or via wifi ?16:52
Avengencevia wifi now but thats still ultimately 3G (just far cheaper when its bytes through the "pc" plan rather than the "phone" plan)16:53
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pathe end is approaching16:58
Avengencehmmm.. after a few minutes more on the wifi (i had turned off 3g data directly on the phone a few days ago due to hitting the cap) it found 3 updates. one of which is firefox
Avengencenow maybe that's why 11.0 failed if thats not available since is out, but then what was the 20mb it downloaded twice in a row and then "failed to download"?16:59
KhertanAvengence: congratz ... your phone provider probably block with a stupid proxy the download of .gz file16:59
KhertanAvengence: same problem here ... SFR on some contract limit access16:59
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AvengenceKhertan: they do not16:59
Khertanand lock access to tgz file ... so no update of Packages.gz17:00
KhertanAvengence: be sure :)17:00
AvengenceKhertan: the 3G service for my pc is 30GB/month however i feel like using it17:00
Khertanmine is "Unlimited"17:00
Khertanbut they put other limit17:01
Avengencethe only limit i know of is no public IP and their NAT defaults to shoving all http on 80 through a transparent proxy that recompresses images, but thats an option i turned off immediately17:01
KhertanAvengence: hihi ... and no option for the antivirus on the proxy ?17:01
Khertanprobably that the problem17:01
Avengencethe proxy doesnt do anything else i can notice, but if its not on port 80b its untouched anyway17:02
Avengencesince bytes are arriving, itsclarly not a matter of my isp blocking, but they could be mangling the data, just maybe17:03
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Khertantry to download that with the browser on 3G to be sure
Avengenceahh, success! firefox installed just fine17:03
Avengenceso the problem was indeed the older version. tit was probably grabbing the file for 11.0 but then when it tried to verify the downlod it'd fail because that wasnt the current version. gotta love signed distribution bullshit17:04
AvengenceI'd prefer to have some regular hardwired internet, but I live in the wrong area. If I want ADSL, its 2Mbps down, 384Kbps up, and I have to wait a month for it to be installed (and had no other service at that time). For only 20% more in cost, I could walk out with a subscribed SIM (already had a modem) for 30GB/month of HSPA+ use 21Mbps down and 5.5Mbps up, so that's what I did17:07
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Avengencenow let's seee about flashplay... i see nokia has rerolled the package as the version is now 4.0.0-73.1 and it was 4.0.0-73 that I tried to install a half dozen times in the past17:09
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AvengenceFAIL :( "Unable to complete installation. Download fle again."17:10
AvengenceI bet there's a broken dep since when I tell it to download, I get a message saying other programs are required to install flashplayer and will be downloaded. total size is then 4MB, up from the 3.8MB shown for ust flash. so that other 200k of whatever is missing/broken most likely, much like devtools-debug and devtools-memory are stuck due to missing libc6-dbg17:12
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AvengenceFlashPlayer Version 4.0.0-73.1 Description: Adobe Flashplayer This is a Adobe Flashplayer (
AvengenceWTF? is it version 4 or 10? nice grammar there too...17:16
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SazpaimonAvengence, debian version number != flash version number17:18
Sazpaimonquestion about openmode kernel17:18
Sazpaimonso when running an openmode, kernel, what's the workaround for the "ask to log in every time" issue17:19
Sazpaimoni remember reading about one, but i can't find it17:19
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AvengenceSazpaimon: flashplayer-lite is at v4 iirc whereas full flashplayer for desktop is at v11. so the v4 implies its just flashplayer-lite (as would be usual for a phone) but then the description refers to a rather outdated version if it were the full desktop flashplayer17:19
piggz__coming soon to an N9 near you
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SazpaimonAvengence, it's not flash lite17:20
Sazpaimonhowever, I would have been okay with flash lite 417:20
Sazpaimonsince that version actually supports actionscript 317:20
Sazpaimonanyway, it's flash 10.1, desktop version, not flash 1117:21
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Avengencei'd be ok with just a little program to anaylyze a swf file and crap out all the text and links in it so it would be possible to navigate the pages that lack any other menus. i have no other need for it and installing it actually then simply creates a need for something like flashblock or noscript17:22
Khertanjonni: stop and start command not found17:22
jonnidont know about your device but in my they are in /sbin/17:23
Khertanjonni: yeah ... strange .. /sbin not in the path :)17:25
Khertananyway didn't resolve the network loss i ve17:25
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jonnidid you run it as user or root17:26
Khertanjonni: "pseudo" root :) the one given by devel-su17:26
Avengencesbin is normally not in path, but I wish it were17:26
Avengenceat least when i su i should get sbin in path17:27
deramusually sbin is in root users path17:28
jonniyour just doing it wrong:  "devel-su - root"17:28
KhertanISI_SIM Unhandled common message17:28
jonnilogin shell vs non login shell17:28
Khertanoups ... wrong windows17:28
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Khertani still do not understand why my n950 lost network and never recover it17:31
Avengencereguardless of how to su, sbin should ALWAYS be part of the path17:32
Avengenceany system that doesn't have it that was is broken as plenty of scripts will fail to find basic stuff17:32
Avengencehell, when i can't ifconfig as a user without typing the fuill path, the shell feels busted/worthless/like-om-on-slowaris17:32
SazpaimonAvengence, I'm pretty sure most distros don't add sbin to the path by default17:33
Avengencehas anyone else had problems with flashplayer refusing to install or am the only one?17:33
SazpaimonI know debian and gentoo don't17:34
Sazpaimonwhich: no ifconfig in (/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.3)17:34
Sazpaimonthat's on gentoo17:34
Sazpaimonfreebsd != linux17:35
Avengenceduh, freebsd is working unix17:35
Avengencelinux is a constant work in progres of almost unix. if something is almost done, it will be scrapped and restarted just in time to make all the users go back to full broken17:36
Avengencewell, not all linux is like that, but pretty much all gnu crap is and that spoils the other parts since its a little hard to have a gnu-free linux box17:37
Khertanbla bla blabla17:43
Avengenceare all files in /etc under aegis control or are there some that can be changed safely?17:46
jonnisome can be changed17:46
Avengenceneed to make sure i'm not shooting myself in the foot removing something from /etc/apt/sources.list.d17:47
Avengenceinteresting... removed the one repo that was 404ing and now apt-get magically finds libc6-dbg so maybe i can finally update devtools17:51
tehdelyoh is that finally fixed17:52
Avengencemaybe.. not sure if there was a connection or coincidence but i hadnt loked for the libc6-dbg update in some weeks17:52
tehdelyyeah i stopped looking17:52
tehdelyi figured if i cared enough, i would build libc6 from source and just install or incept the dbg deb17:53
tehdelybut i still don't have a toolchain set up17:53
Avengenceunfortunately, trying to install devtools-debug just says Installation interrupted with TRry again/cancel17:53
Avengencei can't remeber if that is same as before or not17:54
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Avengencewhat is different is now that an "apt-get install libc6-dbg" succeeded, the attempt to "apt-get install devtools-debug" no longer immediately blows out with the libc dep but instead says it will install 5 packages though some cannot be authenticated. i say yes to proceed anyway and the aegis says NO DENIED to 2 packages and the remaining 3 fail as the depend on those forst 217:55
tehdelyi'm trying it right now17:56
tehdelyit happily installed it17:56
tehdelyif you're getting the unauthenticated error, you probably need to remove the dev repo from your sources.list17:56
Avengencewhich is that?17:57
tehdelyit would only be there if you'd added it17:58
Avengencei have not manually added any repos17:58
tehdelyok then i'm not sure what the problem is17:58
Avengencein fact, i just removed one that some app seemed to add17:58
tehdelyi was able to install devtools-debug just now, for the first time ever17:58
Avengencei had devtools-* installed just fine prior to PR1.217:58
tehdelyi started on pr1.217:59
tehdelyi'm pretty new o:17:59
tehdelyshit, i need breakfast17:59
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Avengencewhen they roll out a release and the fucking devtools are broken, it makes me think they really didn'y do any testing18:00
Avengenceooh, it compiled! release it!18:00
AvengenceIt'd be nice if terminal could be exempted from swype. as it is, i have to switch manually every time i go to terminal and switch again when going to anything else18:03
Avengenceso why is aegis being a bitch when i have install from non-store sources allowed?18:07
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djszapihey, any hardware guys here ?18:21
AvengenceAegis is rejexting /var/cache/apt/archives/gdb_7.2-1maemo0+0m6_armel.deb: package 'gdb' origin cannot be determined -- signature check failed18:22
djszapi do you know how such a model is supposed to get powered by the relevant adapter ? I see the place for the antenna and the RS* ports.18:22
Avengenceaegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected18:22
AvengenceOK, so why is aegis checking signatures when I have it set to allow installing from anywhere?18:22
Avengencedjszapi: the bototm port is more than just serial18:24
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rigoAvengence, I think we have to create a FAQ for this18:32
Avengencerigo: a FAQ for aegis or for getting devtools working?18:33
rigofor aegis18:33
Avengencea comlete list of all the things aegis breaks would be very nice18:33
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itsnotabigtruckAvengence: this is a bug in aegis starting with pr1.2 that you're running into18:54
itsnotabigtrucknot a policy denial or something18:54
itsnotabigtruckif you see "signature check failed" it's the bug18:54
itsnotabigtruckbut it was just talked about a few screens up18:55
itsnotabigtruckthey /better/ fix this with pr1.3, though i fear they won't18:55
Corsacdoes this mean installing from non-ovi sources  is not possible in 1.3?18:56
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck: does this mean there's no way to instal stuff from nokia outside the store, like devtools?19:02
itsnotabigtruckCorsac: no19:02
itsnotabigtruckand it also doesn't mean installing from ovi stores isn't possible in 1.2 either19:02
itsnotabigtruckit means that you can't install things from certain apt repos only without a workaround19:02
itsnotabigtruckthe only repo anyone cares about affected by the bug, currently, is the harmattan sdk repo19:03
itsnotabigtruckwhich nokia refuses to sign (bug 978)19:03
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, High, ---, ext-lavanya.alamuri, ASSI, Platform SDK repository lacks APT signature - incompatible with PR1.219:03
itsnotabigtruck*installing from outside ovi store19:03
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DocScrutinizerso could we mirror this SDK repo?19:04
DocScrutinizeraaah, not19:04
DocScrutinizerwell, we could, but that for sure won't fix a thing19:05
teleshoesis there a workaround?19:05
DocScrutinizersee last UTL in19:05
teleshoesthat doesnt involve openmode?19:05
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
DocScrutinizerURL even19:06
DocScrutinizerI couldn't have put it better19:06
djszapiteleshoes: workaround for which problem ?19:07
djszapiteleshoes: the sdk issue ?19:07
Avengenceso the bug refers to the sdk repo as not signed. but i'm not using the sdk repo afaik19:07
teleshoesharmattan sdk19:07
djszapiwell I fought for that issue ages19:07
djszapiwhen I was working with Nokia19:07
Avengenceat least i never added it19:07
djszapisee the comments.19:08
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DocScrutinizerso aegis major nastiness of basically breaking all devices once Nokia stops to run their repo stuff already rears its ugly head19:09
djszapiteleshoes: I have been said it is only me wanting the fix.19:10
DocScrutinizerdang, that been fast19:10
djszapiand I would not quote how I have been called...19:10
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djszapithough we shipped a fix for aegis-install19:11
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: mirroring it would work19:12
DocScrutinizereven while N9 might be more rugged than N900, I guess in 2 years the latest there will be more working N900 than N9 out in the wild19:13
itsnotabigtruckas long as the repo is then signed19:13
itsnotabigtruck(doesn't matter what key)19:13
itsnotabigtruckhowever mirroring nokia-binaries would probably be against eula19:13
itsnotabigtruckmirroring free/non-free would be perfectly kosher i think19:13
jonninot that its any confort for you guys, but Im running my CE N9 against signed PR1.2 repo... :)19:14
itsnotabigtruckAvengence: if you don't mind me asking, which repo is it?19:14
itsnotabigtruckif it's one you control, you can sign it yourself19:14
DocScrutinizertbh I give a fsck about EULA that's duping users19:14
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck: whatever has devtools-debug (and thereby gdb, maemo-debug-scrips, etc)19:14
Sazpaimone-yes, ping19:14
Sazpaimonoh wait he isn't here19:14
Avengenceeula is often illegal, fuck it19:14
Sazpaimonwas gonna sk him he if planned on publishing the source for sillyboot19:14
itsnotabigtruckAvengence: forget the eula, but regular old copyright law applies here19:15
itsnotabigtruckit has nokia's copyrighted stuff inside and they didn't say it can be copied, so it would be running afoul of nokia's copyright19:15
DocScrutinizerAvengence: gdb, devtools? that sounds like SDK19:15
Avengencei'd happily run a mirror if i had resources to do so. if they tried to sue, i'd countersue for their sabotage of something that wasnt even fit for sale in the first place19:15
itsnotabigtruckhaven't heard of devtools-debug19:15
jonniand you can always do apt-get --download-only install, and then install downloaded packages with dpkg -i even from unsigned repoes...19:15
itsnotabigtruckjonni: nope, won't work19:16
itsnotabigtruckbug kicks in when you try to dpkg -i a package from an unsigned repo, no matter how you do it19:16
Avengencei had the files in the /var/apt/cache and couldnt install them from there19:16
jonniwell then wget unsignedrepo....file.deb and then dpkg -i19:16
itsnotabigtruckjonni: only way is to make it so the dpkg wrapper can't see the apt list files19:16
itsnotabigtruckthat way it doesn't know it's in an apt repo and carries on19:17
itsnotabigtruckinstead of failing out19:17
jonniwget and dpkg works (as you only have valid nokia apt sources in list)19:17
itsnotabigtruckjonni: but he doesn't, that's the problem :p19:17
itsnotabigtruckoh, nm19:17
itsnotabigtruckthat's what you were saying, sorry19:17
djszapithe proper fix is to not use that repository on the device.19:18
djszapisince it was never meant for that.19:18
AvengenceDocScrutinizer: several times its been said you have to manuall add sdk repo, but i haven't so i assume that is something else. i see mentions of stuff like bash (sounds useful!) in there, but i have not added any such thing. i just click install on the stuff in the developmer mode of settings and it fails, then i got to apt-get to see why it failed19:19
DocScrutinizerhonestly, I wonder whom to beat up at Nokia for playing that sort of evil pranks at linux community19:19
AvengenceDocScrutinizer: is that sdk repo or not? i havent a clue. i just knowit took over a month for libc6-dbg to get updated so the other stuff would even TRY to install, then fail19:19
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Avengenceall other devtools stuff was updated BEFORE PR1.2 could break it all, but -debug and -memory depend on that libc6-dbg that was missing...19:20
itsnotabigtruckoh, devtools-debug is a package name19:20 shouldn't be getting that error19:20
Sazpaimongoddamn they loaded this sandwich with onions19:20
itsnotabigtruckdo cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* /etc/apt/sources.list19:21
itsnotabigtrucksee if there's anything there that's not a) apps for meego, b) original nokia device repos (00x, apps, tools)19:21
itsnotabigtruckif so, remove it from the corresponding file19:21
itsnotabigtruckdo apt-get update19:21
Sazpaimoni know it says it had onions on it, but this is just silly19:21
itsnotabigtrucknow, do pkgmgr install -p devtools-debug19:21
itsnotabigtrucksee what happens19:21
itsnotabigtruck*something* isn't right19:21
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itsnotabigtrucki'll bbl19:22
Avengencei figure, how the fuck can they be saying dont add the sdk repo if thats the one with devtools-* vpackages19:22
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* djszapi is quite happy with the desktop components19:22
teleshoes{quick offtopic gush: smsbackuprestore is wonderful}19:22
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Avengencei already deleted one foreign repo, sheerwater was in the domnain but it was 404ing and i never added it, so i guess some app did (ugly)19:23
itsnotabigtruckAvengence: i bet you added the sdk repo19:23
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itsnotabigtruckand the sdk repo might have packages that are trumping the real packages in apt19:23
itsnotabigtruckthen aegis balks when they19:23
itsnotabigtruckare attempted to be installed19:23
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Avengencehow would i accidentally add a repo? can a package just do it?19:24
itsnotabigtruckanyway, there's a solution for this, i just told you19:24
* DocScrutinizer wonders if Sazpaimon is just OT or speaking in quite matching metaphors19:24
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck: can you paste the safe list of repos?19:24
teleshoesadmiral0 so whats the fix for a 12mm x 12mm oplogo?19:24
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teleshoesstarted happening to me on your 2.0 pre-alpha19:24
Sazpaimonpretty sure libc6-dbg is an sdk package19:25
Sazpaimoni know I dont have it19:25
admiral0that code is flawed19:26
admiral0it has to be polished yet19:26
admiral0it was 1400 loc19:27
admiral0now it's 1900 and growing19:27
admiral0and does caching19:27
admiral0but displays empty logo lol19:27
admiral0have to debug it...19:27
Avengencesources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-001.list contains ../harmattan/001, /apps, /tools19:27
Avengencesources.list.d/osa.list contains "deb-exec /usr/bin/osa"19:28
teleshoesthis bug is apparently affecting 1.4 as well:
teleshoesthats exactly what mine looks like19:28
teleshoesit worked perfectly well up until yesterday, too19:28
teleshoesand, weirdly, reflashing didnt help19:29
Avengencesources.list itself contains harmattan/sdk free non-free, harmattan/sdk free, harmattan/(longnum) nokia-binaries19:29
Avengenceso , i'm going to guess that everthing dropped in the sources.list.d is safe but that in the sources.list file iself the first 2 are sdk repo lines19:30
Avengencecan i safelyt edit that file without aegus flipping out?19:30
infobotmayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }19:31
Avengenceand WAHT PUT THAT SHIT IN THAT FILE!??!?!?!?!?19:31
teleshoesprobably a copy/pasted soln from tmo19:31
DocScrutinizerdunno how repos are added on HARM19:31
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Avengenceso, i better uninstall ALL the devtools-* packages and their deps before i pull these repos so i can then install the proper set of devtools19:32
DocScrutinizerI'd guess there are several ways it might sneak in there without you explicitly editing it19:32
Avengenceis the last entry in that file safe, or is the whole thing bad?19:33
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: how are you dude?19:33
Sazpaimonall of them19:33
DocScrutinizeranother proof that aegis never was about *your* (the user's) security, it even frequently opened new attack vectors for all kinds of DOS19:33
Avengencethe last one doesnt say sdk, but not sure if it got there at same time or what "nokia-binaries" means in this context19:34
teleshoesadmiral0 so if you happen to come across the soln, plz lemme know19:34
Sazpaimonits part of the SDK19:34
admiral0teleshoes: sure19:35
admiral0i'll probably release 2.0 soon19:35
admiral0i had issues with rendering code19:35
AvengenceDocScrutinizer: of course not, aegis doesnt even take a sane approach for user security. the direction its coming from makes it clear it'd never work for that. meanwhile, huge amounts of important data is left sitting in the clear (i.e. the maildirs are NOT encrypted while other less important stuff in homedir is)19:36
admiral0and render hints are not implemented yet19:36
DocScrutinizerAvengence: :nod:19:36
Avengencei delted sources.list completely (not in the refhash) and ran upt-get update19:38
jonnithats why MfE forces devicelock so emails are protected against theft.19:39
Avengenceit pulled in some stuff and said devtools-debug is installed but missing deps (so it stayed part in). i ran apt-get -f install and it seems happy19:39
Avengencejonni: device lock is not sufficient. if it were, there's be no need to encrypt the FS at all19:39
Avengencejonni: obviously, its possible to read the data without unlocking the device and thats why it should be encrypted19:40
Avengenceeven if devicelock worked flawless, i could still rip out your nand chip and read your email if i got my hands on your phone19:40
luke-jrjust intercept it at the SMTP servers19:40
itsnotabigtruckhm, back earlier than i expected19:40
itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: doing alright :)19:40
luke-jremail is never secure19:40
jonniwell yes if your mails have million dollar secrets then someone might read the nand19:41
Avengenceluke-jr: emailv can be. say, email on a closed network..19:41
itsnotabigtruckAvengence: just keep anything with or
itsnotabigtruckdrop anything else19:41
itsnotabigtruckjonni: well, it should be assumed that all mails and everything else contain million dollar secrets19:42
itsnotabigtruckalso one could use encrypted email (e.g. s/mime, another thing that didn't get implemented :( )19:42
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck: exactly!19:42
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Avengencei was thinking pgp rather than smime, but yes, you can also encrypyt the email in transit but your sent copies are usually in the clear still so those have to be secured as well as your keys19:43
Avengenceis there some way to ask dpkg what packages of all those installed have no corresponding repo?19:44
itsnotabigtruckAvengence: the thing is that S/MIME is already supported on a bunch of other phones (namely the iphone, blackberry, wm6, and possibly wp7)19:45
jonniwell yes, but even if you use linux and whatever mail usually .mail dir is unencrypted, so why arent you fussing about ubuntu not encrypting emails? :)19:45
itsnotabigtruckand the n9 already has a certificate manager feature built in19:45
itsnotabigtruckjonni: because you can easily apply full disk encryption to that ubuntu machine19:45
itsnotabigtruckthe user can make it as secure as s/he wants it to be19:46
deramand ubuntu has encrypted home dir features19:46
itsnotabigtruckwith the N9, outside of extraordinary measures you're pretty much stuck when it comes to securing anythign19:46
jonniwell you can create aegisfs to .qmf if you really want to.19:46
itsnotabigtruckand like i was talking about before aegisfs isn't really trustable19:47
itsnotabigtruckif someone can lift the unencrypted data off your flash, they can probably trivially circumvent aegisfs19:47
Avengencethe problem wiuth s/mime is its rarely used because it sucks. implementations are not compatible due to implementing differing sets of ciphers on various clients, certain crucial things are optional (for example, including the date inside the signed body is optional, and if not there its impossible to verify the signature in a meaningful way if theres ever a revocation), and the reliance on cert chains means nobody wants to use it except huge19:48
Avengenceorgs that runs their on CA19:48
Avengencereally, how many people are going to go pay verisign $200 for a cert to be able to encrypt their email for 1 year?19:49
Avengenceanswser: NONE19:49
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itsnotabigtruckAvengence: there's 3 cas that give out trusted s/mime certs for free19:49
itsnotabigtruckor you could self-sign19:49
itsnotabigtruckthe level of trust is pretty rudimentary, it's just e-mail validation19:50
itsnotabigtruckso it's comparable to a gpg key with a signature from the pgp directory or cacert or something19:50
Avengenceself-sign and it means nobody will be able to decrypt your mail without adding your key to their trusted list manually19:50
Avengenceassuming they can even do that...19:50
itsnotabigtruckother way around, but yeah19:50
itsnotabigtruckpeople would have trouble sending you encrypted mail with a self-signed cert19:51
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itsnotabigtruckthe other thing is that most email clients have fairly good integrated s/mime support19:51
Avengencepgp has a much lower bar to entry in that the whole CA nonsense is not present and that is STILL too much for most people19:51
itsnotabigtruckgpg has never integrated well into any gui email client19:51
itsnotabigtruckthere's plugins for most but they aren't very good19:51
Avengencegpg integrated better than s/mime in all i used...19:52
itsnotabigtrucke.g. outlook, tbird, etc. have s/mime without installing anything19:52
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: nope19:52
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: kmail has integrated gpg support19:52
itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: ok, kmail is the exception19:52
Avengencei wasted a few years of my life on s/mime for uise in a closed network with a isolated set of CAs (.gov bullshit)19:52
itsnotabigtrucki forgot it used gpg as a crypto backend19:52
TronicI guess that the headers still go unencrypted with all the systems?19:53
Avengenceoutlok and apple.mail for example are not exactly compatible s/mime clients. they can each make a message the other cant decrypt under various circumstances19:53
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itsnotabigtruckTronic: yeah, including the subject19:54
Avengencei know the ones that outlook cant read from apple are due to the  way its chunked when asn1 encoded, but i didnt bother to figure out the reverse issue19:54
* Tronic is /really/ looking forward to a mail/im/chat/voicecom system that would properly use encryption for all messaging and make it easy enough to use (e.g. auto-generated keys).19:54
itsnotabigtruckthe main problem i've seen is that windows xp + outlook can't do AES19:54
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AvengenceTronic: see OTR for IM, ZRTP for VoIP19:54
Avengenceitsnotabigtruck: diferent versions of outlook can even choke when the DES modes they support dont overlap19:55
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TronicAvengence: Thanks, hadn't heard of ZRTP before.19:56
TronicAvengence: Can you recommend clients for that?19:57
Avengencethink one ouitlook in a less than 128bit restricted area tries to communicate with another that is running on a windows instance that has policy set not to allow ciphers under 128bit to be used. blam! cant decrypt messages sent either way19:57
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AvengenceTronic: both those are crypto systems that operate transparently over the underlying protocol. if both ends have it, its used automatically19:57
AvengenceTronic: for zrtp, you dont need it in the client (though a few have it). you just need the app running. it'll see each rtp sessiion that is established from whatever voip softeware you use and opportunistically encrypt them19:59
DocScrutinizerZRTP: see twinklephone.com19:59
Avengencethis brings another thing to mind... anyone working on an otr plugin or proxy for N9? the extra im addons would be more useful with it20:00
AvengenceDocScrutinizer: hows that compare to ekiga? i've been using the latter as i heard good things about its video, but it (and/or the sip service) does very poorly behind nat. also, the build opt for zrtp support is broken (apparently unmaintaned as the zrtp sdk evolved)20:02
DocScrutinizerAvengence: I dunno current state, it's basically orphaned since quite a long time20:05
DocScrutinizerno video20:05
AvengenceHHAHA, wikth that sdk repo gone, flashplayer can install!20:05
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Avengencevideo doesnt matter much when the call cant connect...20:06
DocScrutinizerekiga never really worked for me20:06
Avengencei'm interested in how is it as a phone in general, hows the zrtp, and how well does it cope with nat20:06
luke-jrAvengence: no OTR!20:07 sip server is too screwy to work with the N9 sip except a few random chance times20:07
luke-jrAvengence: standard PGP please20:07
DocScrutinizertwinkle has no special magic for e.g. STUN, it does the usual stuff. But it worked great and still does on my PC here20:07
Avengenceluke-jr: PGP and OTR are for completely different things!20:08
luke-jrAvengence: but PGP is the standard20:08
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Avengencepgp is for email, not im20:09
Avengenceotr is for im, it wont even do email20:09
DocScrutinizerAvengence: quite a number of - if not all - SIP providers use twinklephone for refernce to check their SIP compliance and service quality20:09
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DocScrutinizermeans twinkle probably has the best SIP stack out there20:10
JareI've used Jitsi lately. It seems to support a lot of different encryption options e.g. on sip or im20:11
luke-jrAvengence: PGP is for IM too20:11
DocScrutinizerAvengence: ZRTP integration worked like a charm when I tested it20:11
luke-jrAvengence: and the best IM client supports PGP but not OTR20:12
DocScrutinizerAvengence: btw twinkle supports IM via SIMPLE20:12
DocScrutinizerdon't blame me if I got the SIMPLE part wrong ;-)20:13
Avengencecool, ill give it a try20:13
Avengencegot any free sip providers to recommend as alternative to
Avengenceluke-jr: which is that? i've never heards of pgp over im (excepty some impractical atempt at using it on xmpp)20:14
luke-jrAvengence: Psi20:15
Avengenceluke-jr: wrong, try again. psi is not the best IM client, it doesn't support any protocols i need20:20
Avengencejitsi sounds nice, but it just plain didnt work went i tried it, i'll blame if on being java b/c thats a safe bet for the root of the problem20:21
luke-jrAvengence: Psi supports only the standard protocol, which is part of why it is the best.20:22
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luke-jrno bs least-common-denominator crap20:22
Avengenceluke-jr: you mean the protocol that nobody uses20:25
luke-jrAvengence: everybody worth talking to*20:25
luke-jrplus Facebook users20:25
Avengencethats nobody20:25
Avengenceif you use facebook, you probably arent worth even saying hello to20:26
luke-jrI see 104 users online out of 643 on my list20:26
luke-jrAvengence: hence "plus"20:26
* mgedmin wonders if that standard protocol is XMPP20:26
luke-jrmgedmin: ofc20:26
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luke-jr(and yes, I'm aware XMPP has some annoyances; but it's still standard)20:27
AvengenceDocScrutinizer: ahh, now i remember why i didnt use twinkle before. its not QT4 and having QT3 side by side causes problems20:27
mgedminso in Avengence's universe nobody uses Google Talk?  Okay.20:27
JareAvengence: I had some issues running it on an older linux laptop. So, I guess it would be quite a bit better performance wise, if it wasn't coded in Java...20:27
Avengencethe only large xmpp network i'm aware of is gootletalk, but they break trhe standards (i.e, jingle for voice/video instead of the xmpp standard)20:27
luke-jrAvengence: Jingle *is* the XMPP standard20:28
Avengencemgedmin: i dont use google talk as i dont use any google services, just search20:28
Avengenceluke-jr: jingle is something google puled ou their ass, there was voice and video standards for xmpp before that, just barely used20:28
Avengencesingle google did their think and then gave away jingle it might have effectively become part of the standard20:29
* luke-jr is happy he can talk to Google Talk users without using Google Talk.20:29
Avengenceregardless, theres no xmpp network i know anybody on except gtalk, and all those people have aim, icq, msn, skype or something else through which i communicate with them20:30
Avengenceuntil google ceases to be evil and gives me back my data, i will advicate against thier use as they are yetr another untruistworthy evil corporation20:31
Avengencethey've ruined far too much of the internet already20:31
Avengencesometimes I have to wonder if the KDE4 clusterfuck scared off a certain class of users and developers as there are some apps that never really maded it over to QT4. i.e. most of the nice FTP clients are either QT3 or GTK+, none in QT4. same for SIP clients, only thing for QT4 was kcall but that was to use decibel which is dead so...20:37
* admiral0 has just seen yet another kde4-butthurt user...20:49
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Avengencei like most of KDE4 (now), but I know there were a bunch who didnt (especially those that jumped on 4.0) and I wonder if some of those were devs of the apps that are more in the power-users realm20:54
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Avengencei don 't like that som patrs are still less functrional than KDE3, but at this point overall KDE4 is more usable since KDE3 isnt maintained20:55
Avengenceand both are more usable than gnome20:55
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admiral0Avengence: i use kde since pre-4.022:35
Avengencethen you were likely expecting it and not one of those shocked when they installed 4.0 and expected it to be like 3 but a little flashier or whatever22:40
Avengencei think the change was too much too soon in that there should have been the move to QT4 then change architectural pieces, but cant change that now so QT5 is around the corner and the pim stuff in kde4.8 is still maybe beta22:41
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liarwhy can't i loop mount a file (with ext2) on the nokia n9?22:58
liarit says "permission denied, are you root?"22:58
liarbut i logged in via devel-su22:59
Aardprobably aegis does not let you do it22:59
piggz__aegis - saving you from yourself 24hours a day23:00
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xmlich02Hi guys, we are making and 21st April openmobility conference in Prague. Please let us know if you want to make talk there. Please post it on twitter/facebook/anywhere. Details are at There is also an competition (you can win N9 and 2x N950)23:07
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itsnotabigtruckliar: incept your phone and try again from opensh23:16
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