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| rm_work | so you, jaffa and tim all dropped from the council? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| GeneralAntilles | That was, like, 7 years ago. | 00:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now we just editorialize from mwkn | 00:01 |
| rm_work | lol | 00:01 |
| rm_work | March 2011 :P | 00:01 |
| pa | rm_work, given the situation of nokia these days, i wouldnt be surprised of some major strategy change at some point in time (not too far) | 00:01 |
| rm_work | from what to what? lol | 00:01 |
| pa | or a bankrupt/acquisition by someone (M$) | 00:02 |
| rm_work | they're already "woo microsoft go" | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like I said, 13 years ago. | 00:02 |
| rm_work | a strategy change to being bankrupt? yeah maybe :P | 00:02 |
| javispedro | which GUI toolkit has Nokia never used? | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Enlightenment! | 00:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | can't say i understand the point of having a "community council" | 00:02 |
| rm_work | i actually have had people commenting on how awesome my Lumia 800 looks... | 00:02 |
| rm_work | even non-phone people | 00:02 |
| rm_work | nokia's design is just GOOD. | 00:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's an inherently totally bureaucratic concept | 00:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | itsnotabigtruck, not really | 00:02 |
| rm_work | it's sad they're crippled by such a horrible management and marketing philosophy | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was actually pretty useful back when Maemo was actually going places. | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Facilitation is the primary mission. | 00:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I vote we replace Elop with @ceoStephenElop | 00:03 |
| rm_work | lolwut | 00:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | instead of fussing about with "technical steering groups" and "community councils" and elections and whatnot, how about making maemo.org not terrible, and building some cool stuff for maemo/harmattan/whatever | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Twitter parody account. | 00:04 |
| javispedro | the one who wanted to outsource Meego development to Burger King? | 00:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | itsnotabigtruck, yeah, that was a fundamental part of it back in the day. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | javispedro, yeah, that one. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | itsnotabigtruck, i.e., facilitation. | 00:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately when nothing's really happening energy tends to shift towards bureaucratization. | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is a large part of why I stopped running for election. | 00:05 |
| rm_work | lol his tweets are awesome | 00:05 |
| rm_work | yes | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia would still be like watching a car crassh | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | but at least it'd be a /hilarious/ car crash. | 00:08 |
| pa | hey, they still sell $20 phones | 00:08 |
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| * RST38h yawns, swallows a fly | 00:22 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know why he swallowed that fly. Perhaps he'll die? | 00:24 |
| MohammadAG | twitter, the fastest way to spread something | 00:24 |
| MohammadAG | Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 29 (2 members and 27 guests) | 00:25 |
| RST38h | the fastest way to spread something is with herpes | 00:25 |
| RST38h | twitter isn't even close | 00:25 |
| * javispedro clicks on the link to somehow try to prove that IRC is actually more herperitic than twitter | 00:25 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Is there a distribution graph of follower counts? | 00:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | 833 must put you in the top %1. | 00:26 |
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| rm_work | well, i'm off | 00:26 |
| rm_work | talk to you next month :P | 00:26 |
| MohammadAG | GeneralAntilles, that'd be interesting, but guess not | 00:26 |
| rm_work | (or whenever anyone pings me) | 00:26 |
| MohammadAG | rm_work, why so soon | 00:26 |
| rm_work | lol | 00:26 |
| rm_work | why off so soon today, or why talk to you guys in ONLY one month? :P | 00:27 |
| MohammadAG | latter of course | 00:27 |
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| rm_work | heh | 00:27 |
| rm_work | because i'll prolly be bored by then :P | 00:27 |
| javispedro | you dare bring light to our lair? | 00:27 |
| rm_work | and now, off work, so heading home | 00:27 |
| javispedro | you must die! | 00:27 |
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| javispedro | :P cya | 00:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really hope we get more conferences of some color or another. | 00:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Sucks not having those. | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG | Meh, couldn't attend any | 00:30 |
| javispedro | we can always go to the next apple conference | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG | LOL | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG | isn't that now? | 00:30 |
| MohammadAG | nsconf | 00:30 |
| RST38h | no more conferences | 00:30 |
| RST38h | what conferences do you expect anyway? | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | MohammadAG, one more reason why we need more. | 00:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy was talking about crashing a Tizen conf. | 00:31 |
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| RST38h | naaah | 00:31 |
| MohammadAG | I'd be embarrassed to go to that :P | 00:31 |
| RST38h | There will only be corporate employees sent there because they had to | 00:31 |
| javispedro | oh | 00:32 |
| javispedro | that means there will be plenty of food? | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 00:32 |
| RST38h | dunno, but if Intel is organizing it, do not expect one of those Maemo confs | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | We stuff it full of Maemo people, get drunk and reminisce. | 00:32 |
| javispedro | should be telling that when I put Tizen Conference on Google it wants me to go to some Tisen Conference | 00:35 |
| MohammadAG | or we could all meetup somewhere | 00:35 |
| MohammadAG | I always wanted to check out the bermuda triangle | 00:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | MohammadAG, Jerusalem =) | 00:35 |
| MohammadAG | ZogG_laptop, we don't want customs holding javispedro | 00:36 |
| javispedro | they don't want to hold me either | 00:36 |
| MohammadAG | lol | 00:36 |
| javispedro | on the topic of interesting places to meet, I heard they found water on mars | 00:37 |
| javispedro | think of it -- no customs, no immigration | 00:38 |
| MohammadAG | I probably need a visa | 00:39 |
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| RST38h | no humans | 00:43 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, still, I probably need a visa | 00:44 |
| RST38h | at least you do not need 12 medical tests like myself | 00:47 |
| RST38h | including lepra test =) | 00:47 |
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| macmaN | uhh MohammadAG | 00:59 |
| macmaN | what exactly are those PR12 sources | 00:59 |
| macmaN | how are these different from stuff on nokia websites | 00:59 |
| MohammadAG | macmaN, Nokia doesn't have them | 00:59 |
| macmaN | doesnt offer them you mean? | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | libc6 is version m6 on nokia's servers, this has m7 for example | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | macmaN, yes, they're ripped from their source DVD | 01:00 |
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| macmaN | hmm, and you're allowed to put them up for download? | 01:00 |
| macmaN | oh ok | 01:00 |
| MohammadAG | macmaN, GPL code | 01:00 |
| macmaN | icc | 01:00 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: BTW, what are those voip/gtalk "diversions" in the latest cssu? | 01:01 |
| RST38h | anything useful? | 01:01 |
| MohammadAG | RST38h, afaik those were uninstalled when you installed the CSSU | 01:02 |
| MohammadAG | we just depended on them again | 01:02 |
| RST38h | ah | 01:03 |
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| npm | yay, my dream back-end just materialized in the clouds: http://lists.xwiki.org/pipermail/users/2012-March/022342.html | 02:20 |
| npm | == http://trainspodder.com | 02:20 |
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| * Dante_J greets the room | 02:24 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | macmaN: to be specific, the harmattan-dev.nokia.com site has PR1.0 code | 02:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the entire sdk is PR1.0 and nokia refuses to update it | 02:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the sources for the newer releases are only distributed on DVD by request, and fortunately people have imaged those and uploaded them | 02:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you can't get them from any official nokia site | 02:27 |
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| npm | my view from the clouds: https://plus.google.com/118051488912335163531/posts/Hb3FDqSZmPQ | 02:53 |
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| npm | my cloud to ssh: http://lists.xwiki.org/pipermail/users/2009-August/012719.html | 02:57 |
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| rZr | hi | 07:42 |
| psycho_oreos | hi | 07:43 |
| rZr | do u know more on those errors : | 07:43 |
| rZr | “Can't install” “Invalid Installation package” | 07:43 |
| psycho_oreos | doesn't really tell me much, why not run it through console? | 07:43 |
| rZr | dpkg -i *.deb does not complain | 07:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://i.imgur.com/WZood.jpg | 07:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | is life. no. demorez. | 07:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also rzr: try pkgmgr install-file -f package.deb | 07:45 |
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| djszapi | Hey, is there a channel bot for logging outside the MeeGo (or rather: Open Mobile Linux) world ? | 07:46 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: hm? lots of other channels have log bots on them, e.g. #debian | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not much of a fan of public channel logging, it's rather invasive | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | immortalizes stuff that shouldn't be immortalized | 07:48 |
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| berndhs | evening folks | 07:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hey berndhs | 07:51 |
| djszapi | it would be nice if logger bot could be invited to channels without setting up one on my own, maintain it and also taking care of the server for publishing. | 07:51 |
| berndhs | has anyone else seen problems with logging into skype the last week or so ? from a n950 ? | 07:51 |
| berndhs | djszapi: yes a logger bot separate from an answer bot would be cool | 07:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: doing that without consulting the ops and the regulars would be rather...impolite, though | 07:53 |
| djszapi | berndhs: yep, I would like to find one I can invite to a channel, but that is not an open mobile linux channel after all, so _MeeGoBot_ would be weird. :) | 07:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, i guess this is a new channel you're setting up | 07:55 |
| berndhs | what stops you from running your own bot ? dont have a server that can answer, like behind a NAT or something like that ? | 07:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | keep in mind that the freenode website explicitly discourages setting up log bots | 07:57 |
| djszapi | berndhs: I do not have, plus I guess it would need a decent amount of scripting that I am not good at. :) | 07:57 |
| berndhs | you have get out from behind your NAT for $0, that's not really a problem | 07:57 |
| berndhs | but some of the bots need some tricky setting up | 07:58 |
| djszapi | that is the whole thing about, I would not like to set it up for several reasons. | 07:58 |
| djszapi | hence, asking if there is already a logger bot I can just invite. | 07:59 |
| berndhs | yes it needs some maintenance, true | 07:59 |
| berndhs | this really sucks, n950 doesnt dot skype any more | 08:04 |
| berndhs | or maybe is my service provier | 08:04 |
| berndhs | conspiracy ! | 08:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | esp any bots are subject to ban, when not announced and welcome by the chan owner or mods | 08:05 |
| infobot | I don't like company usually | 08:06 |
| berndhs | i especially dont like when the UI tells me to get a new account when the whole skype or twitter API is broken :( | 08:10 |
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| rZr | itsnotabigtruck: well i want it to be installed through the deb handler ie: webbrowser | 08:11 |
| berndhs | i didnt forget my password, it works on all other devices, i dont need a new account :( | 08:12 |
| berndhs | good night, im going to sleep | 08:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rzr: just test that and see if it works | 08:17 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | the point isn't to have users do that, the point is to test if it works | 08:17 |
| rZr | this doesnt explain how to fix this | 08:20 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | rzr: try it | 08:22 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | and see if it fails | 08:23 |
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| rZr | it does | 08:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rzr: does it give an error message? | 08:26 |
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| rZr | hi e-yes | 08:42 |
| rZr | and congratz for n releaes | 08:42 |
| rZr | release | 08:42 |
| e-yes | rZr, thx | 08:42 |
| rZr | just side question | 08:44 |
| rZr | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1182548#post1182548 | 08:44 |
| rZr | it should not be more difficult to support n950 too ? | 08:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rzr: did you get an error message from pkgmgr? | 08:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e-yes: hm, so you figured out the pr1.2 cmt 3g problem? | 08:46 |
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| rZr | itsnotabigtruck: it's fixed now ... had to remove an existing package ( non user/* ) ... | 08:55 |
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| * ieatlint highly recommends seeing the movie "the fp", but only while drunk and with friends | 10:36 | |
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| Andy1210 | hey, whats the diffrent between N950 and N9's kernel? | 10:52 |
| Andy1210 | *difference | 10:58 |
| jonni | there is no difference | 10:58 |
| ieatlint | i'm also unaware of any difference... the SoC should be identical | 10:58 |
| Andy1210 | I like to install Nitdroid ICS on my N950, but the patched openmode/dualboot kernel doesn't work on it. | 11:08 |
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| jonni | well nobody in here uses nitroid, you should ask that question in nitroid forums or channel. | 11:11 |
| jonni | Andy1210: but in theory kernel should work in both, it might be that you need to flash it with different ape algo (you cannot use 07-1) so if you follow N9 instructions blindly you will fail on flashing | 11:15 |
| jonni | (you need to use ape algo from n950 firmware) | 11:16 |
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| Andy1210 | <slaine> Andy1210: There was a tweet about an hour ago that would indicate the N950 isn't supported as of yet. | 11:40 |
| Andy1210 | So that was the problem :) | 11:40 |
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| Khertan | Morning ! | 12:18 |
| Khertan | Someone know a way programmaticaly to know if a file is under aegis protection ? | 12:18 |
| Khertan | The goal : avoid that the autosave feature modify that he should not, exemple when you want to read a file that is installed by a package | 12:19 |
| Khertan | s/he/it | 12:19 |
| ieatlint | yes, there's a file that contains hashes of aegis-controlled files that you can check | 12:20 |
| ieatlint | i don't recall it, but hopefully someone in here does | 12:20 |
| Khertan | ~aegis | 12:20 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 12:20 |
| Khertan | ieatlint: | 12:20 |
| Khertan | ieatlint: thx | 12:20 |
| Khertan | Someone know how to restart the csd ? | 12:25 |
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| jonni | Khertan: grep filenamewithoutpth /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist if it returns hit its protected | 12:37 |
| jonni | Khertan: and "stop csd; start csd;" runned as root | 12:39 |
| Khertan | jonni: thx, i hope that fix my loss of network :) | 12:42 |
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| jonni | Khertan: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=CJvT8MqH if you paste that file as check.pl, you can run: "perl check.pl filename" and it returns warning if file is protected | 12:52 |
| jonni | (made oneliner for you) :) | 12:52 |
| Khertan | héhé thx you but i ll implement that directly in my soft instead of calling perl :) | 12:54 |
| jonni | and ofcourse that is not 100% safe, since there are few files that are not protected by aegis refhashlist, but protected by swcert on lower level :) | 12:56 |
| jonni | (but is enough for most of the usecases... as most likely your not messing with core coles hopefully) | 12:58 |
| jonni | coles=files, typo day | 13:00 |
| Khertan | ;) | 13:02 |
| Khertan | and anyway normally user can't edit those files | 13:02 |
| Khertan | but just in case some run it as root with autosave feature | 13:02 |
| Khertan | and made unwanted modifiations | 13:03 |
| Khertan | KhtSimpleText 0.3.1 released in Apps4MeeGo : http://khertan.net/blog/khtsimpletext_0.3.1 | 13:03 |
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| Khertan | http://apps.formeego.com/staging/applications/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/Utilities/khtsimpletext/ Need your help for QA ! Thx | 13:37 |
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| rlinfati | Hi, how i can contact the repository admin of harmattan-dev.nokia.com ? | 14:38 |
| rlinfati | the file http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/dists/harmattan/sdk/Release has the checksum of free/source/Sources at the end, and that is wrong, they need to be in the md5/sha1/sha256 section | 14:41 |
| rigo | rlinfati, this is IMHO a known bug that they refused to fix since a long time | 14:42 |
| rlinfati | :( | 14:43 |
| rigo | but there is a workaround | 14:44 |
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| rlinfati | what is the workaround | 14:46 |
| rigo | thanks to itsnotabigtruck, you can remove the file indicating the sig and install directly with dpkg -i | 15:00 |
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| Saz|Mobile | Is there an on-device kernel flasher yet? | 15:23 |
| jonni | Saz|Mobile: yes and no. No for end users. | 15:25 |
| rlinfati | Saz|Mobile fiasco-flasher | 15:25 |
| Saz|Mobile | Meaning it cant be used on the N9? | 15:26 |
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| Sazpaimon | yay dead zones | 15:43 |
| Sazpaimon | anyway | 15:43 |
| Sazpaimon | is it some NDA thing? | 15:43 |
| Sazpaimon | or are we talking about the fremantle fiasco-flasher | 15:44 |
| jonni | naah, fiasco-flasher just checks the checksum for the kernel from certificate, so it only allows nokia kernels to be flashed | 15:46 |
| Sazpaimon | oh well it would help if I checked /usr/sbin | 15:46 |
| jonni | it is on device yes, but not usable for custom kernels | 15:46 |
| Sazpaimon | is that a change from fremantle? | 15:47 |
| Sazpaimon | iirc you could fhash custom kernels using the fiasco-flasher | 15:47 |
| Sazpaimon | i remember back when overclocking was frst being started | 15:47 |
| Sazpaimon | *first | 15:47 |
| jonni | havent looked the sources for a while, afaik ssu uses it and if I remember right it only allows kernels that match swcert to be flashed. But ofcourse you can always try it out to see if I remember wrong. | 15:49 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah | 15:51 |
| Sazpaimon | http://pastebin.com/Kf6dvnwB | 15:51 |
| Sazpaimon | unless fiasco-flasher needs an actual fiasco file | 15:51 |
| Sazpaimon | and not just a zimage | 15:51 |
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| Sazpaimon | and i dont think sdk-fiasco-gen is available publicly | 16:07 |
| Sazpaimon | oh well | 16:07 |
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| rlinfati | fiasco-gen_3.11.5+0m6_i386.deb in the nokia-binaries public repository | 16:17 |
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| Avengence | anyone know how to see what happens when the nokia store is trying to install a package? | 16:48 |
| Avengence | flashplayer consiustently fails to install from the store and now the 11.0 update to firefox is saying download failed after the bar reaches the end | 16:48 |
| Avengence | ideally i could just run apt-get and see what its getting stuck on (as with the devtools packages that depend on libc6-dbg) but I'm guessing thre's no way to download the .deb files directly | 16:50 |
| Khertan | Avengence: did you have reboot it ? | 16:51 |
| Avengence | rebooted since the flashplayer fail several times to no avail | 16:51 |
| Khertan | hum | 16:52 |
| Avengence | the firefox update fail just happened and that's when i decided to stop by as it means its not just one defective package | 16:52 |
| Khertan | on 3G or via wifi ? | 16:52 |
| Avengence | via wifi now but thats still ultimately 3G (just far cheaper when its bytes through the "pc" plan rather than the "phone" plan) | 16:53 |
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| pa | http://www.engadget.com/2012/03/22/nokia-drops-another-1-000-employees/ | 16:58 |
| pa | the end is approaching | 16:58 |
| Avengence | hmmm.. after a few minutes more on the wifi (i had turned off 3g data directly on the phone a few days ago due to hitting the cap) it found 3 updates. one of which is firefox 11.0.0.1 | 16:58 |
| Avengence | now maybe that's why 11.0 failed if thats not available since 11.0.0.1 is out, but then what was the 20mb it downloaded twice in a row and then "failed to download"? | 16:59 |
| Khertan | Avengence: congratz ... your phone provider probably block with a stupid proxy the download of .gz file | 16:59 |
| Khertan | Avengence: same problem here ... SFR on some contract limit access | 16:59 |
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| Avengence | Khertan: they do not | 16:59 |
| Khertan | and lock access to tgz file ... so no update of Packages.gz | 17:00 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:00 |
| Khertan | Avengence: be sure :) | 17:00 |
| Avengence | Khertan: the 3G service for my pc is 30GB/month however i feel like using it | 17:00 |
| Khertan | mine is "Unlimited" | 17:00 |
| Khertan | but they put other limit | 17:01 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:01 |
| Avengence | the only limit i know of is no public IP and their NAT defaults to shoving all http on 80 through a transparent proxy that recompresses images, but thats an option i turned off immediately | 17:01 |
| Khertan | Avengence: hihi ... and no option for the antivirus on the proxy ? | 17:01 |
| Khertan | probably that the problem | 17:01 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:01 |
| Avengence | the proxy doesnt do anything else i can notice, but if its not on port 80b its untouched anyway | 17:02 |
| Avengence | since bytes are arriving, itsclarly not a matter of my isp blocking, but they could be mangling the data, just maybe | 17:03 |
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| Khertan | try to download that with the browser on 3G to be sure http://repo.pub.meego.com/MeeGo%3a/1.2%3a/Harmattan%3a/Apps%3a/Testing/MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard/Packages.gz | 17:03 |
| Avengence | ahh, success! firefox 11.0.0.1 installed just fine | 17:03 |
| Khertan | lol | 17:04 |
| Avengence | so the problem was indeed the older version. tit was probably grabbing the file for 11.0 but then when it tried to verify the downlod it'd fail because that wasnt the current version. gotta love signed distribution bullshit | 17:04 |
| Avengence | I'd prefer to have some regular hardwired internet, but I live in the wrong area. If I want ADSL, its 2Mbps down, 384Kbps up, and I have to wait a month for it to be installed (and had no other service at that time). For only 20% more in cost, I could walk out with a subscribed SIM (already had a modem) for 30GB/month of HSPA+ use 21Mbps down and 5.5Mbps up, so that's what I did | 17:07 |
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| Avengence | now let's seee about flashplay... i see nokia has rerolled the package as the version is now 4.0.0-73.1 and it was 4.0.0-73 that I tried to install a half dozen times in the past | 17:09 |
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| Avengence | FAIL :( "Unable to complete installation. Download fle again." | 17:10 |
| Avengence | I bet there's a broken dep since when I tell it to download, I get a message saying other programs are required to install flashplayer and will be downloaded. total size is then 4MB, up from the 3.8MB shown for ust flash. so that other 200k of whatever is missing/broken most likely, much like devtools-debug and devtools-memory are stuck due to missing libc6-dbg | 17:12 |
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| Avengence | FlashPlayer Version 4.0.0-73.1 Description: Adobe Flashplayer This is a Adobe Flashplayer (10.1.105.6) | 17:16 |
| Avengence | WTF? is it version 4 or 10? nice grammar there too... | 17:16 |
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| Sazpaimon | Avengence, debian version number != flash version number | 17:18 |
| Sazpaimon | question about openmode kernel | 17:18 |
| Sazpaimon | so when running an openmode, kernel, what's the workaround for the "ask to log in every time" issue | 17:19 |
| Sazpaimon | i remember reading about one, but i can't find it | 17:19 |
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| Avengence | Sazpaimon: flashplayer-lite is at v4 iirc whereas full flashplayer for desktop is at v11. so the v4 implies its just flashplayer-lite (as would be usual for a phone) but then the description refers to a rather outdated version if it were the full desktop flashplayer | 17:19 |
| piggz__ | coming soon to an N9 near you http://piggz.co.uk/index.php?page=pang | 17:19 |
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| Sazpaimon | Avengence, it's not flash lite | 17:20 |
| Sazpaimon | however, I would have been okay with flash lite 4 | 17:20 |
| Sazpaimon | since that version actually supports actionscript 3 | 17:20 |
| Sazpaimon | anyway, it's flash 10.1, desktop version, not flash 11 | 17:21 |
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| Avengence | i'd be ok with just a little program to anaylyze a swf file and crap out all the text and links in it so it would be possible to navigate the pages that lack any other menus. i have no other need for it and installing it actually then simply creates a need for something like flashblock or noscript | 17:22 |
| Khertan | jonni: stop and start command not found | 17:22 |
| Khertan | :) | 17:22 |
| jonni | dont know about your device but in my they are in /sbin/ | 17:23 |
| Khertan | jonni: yeah ... strange .. /sbin not in the path :) | 17:25 |
| Khertan | thx | 17:25 |
| Khertan | anyway didn't resolve the network loss i ve | 17:25 |
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| jonni | did you run it as user or root | 17:26 |
| Khertan | jonni: "pseudo" root :) the one given by devel-su | 17:26 |
| Avengence | sbin is normally not in path, but I wish it were | 17:26 |
| Avengence | at least when i su i should get sbin in path | 17:27 |
| deram | usually sbin is in root users path | 17:28 |
| jonni | your just doing it wrong: "devel-su - root" | 17:28 |
| Khertan | ISI_SIM Unhandled common message | 17:28 |
| jonni | login shell vs non login shell | 17:28 |
| Khertan | oups ... wrong windows | 17:28 |
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| Khertan | i still do not understand why my n950 lost network and never recover it | 17:31 |
| Avengence | reguardless of how to su, sbin should ALWAYS be part of the path | 17:32 |
| Avengence | any system that doesn't have it that was is broken as plenty of scripts will fail to find basic stuff | 17:32 |
| Avengence | hell, when i can't ifconfig as a user without typing the fuill path, the shell feels busted/worthless/like-om-on-slowaris | 17:32 |
| Sazpaimon | Avengence, I'm pretty sure most distros don't add sbin to the path by default | 17:33 |
| Avengence | has anyone else had problems with flashplayer refusing to install or am the only one? | 17:33 |
| Sazpaimon | I know debian and gentoo don't | 17:34 |
| Sazpaimon | which: no ifconfig in (/usr/local/bin:/usr/bin:/bin:/opt/bin:/usr/x86_64-pc-linux-gnu/gcc-bin/4.5.3) | 17:34 |
| Sazpaimon | that's on gentoo | 17:34 |
| Avengence | defaults: | 17:34 |
| Avengence | OSTYPE=freebsd9.0 | 17:35 |
| Avengence | PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/usr/games:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin | 17:35 |
| Sazpaimon | freebsd != linux | 17:35 |
| Avengence | duh, freebsd is working unix | 17:35 |
| Avengence | linux is a constant work in progres of almost unix. if something is almost done, it will be scrapped and restarted just in time to make all the users go back to full broken | 17:36 |
| Avengence | well, not all linux is like that, but pretty much all gnu crap is and that spoils the other parts since its a little hard to have a gnu-free linux box | 17:37 |
| Khertan | bla bla blabla | 17:43 |
| Avengence | are all files in /etc under aegis control or are there some that can be changed safely? | 17:46 |
| jonni | some can be changed | 17:46 |
| Avengence | need to make sure i'm not shooting myself in the foot removing something from /etc/apt/sources.list.d | 17:47 |
| Avengence | interesting... removed the one repo that was 404ing and now apt-get magically finds libc6-dbg so maybe i can finally update devtools | 17:51 |
| tehdely | oh is that finally fixed | 17:52 |
| Avengence | maybe.. not sure if there was a connection or coincidence but i hadnt loked for the libc6-dbg update in some weeks | 17:52 |
| tehdely | yeah i stopped looking | 17:52 |
| tehdely | i figured if i cared enough, i would build libc6 from source and just install or incept the dbg deb | 17:53 |
| tehdely | but i still don't have a toolchain set up | 17:53 |
| Avengence | unfortunately, trying to install devtools-debug just says Installation interrupted with TRry again/cancel | 17:53 |
| Avengence | i can't remeber if that is same as before or not | 17:54 |
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| Avengence | what is different is now that an "apt-get install libc6-dbg" succeeded, the attempt to "apt-get install devtools-debug" no longer immediately blows out with the libc dep but instead says it will install 5 packages though some cannot be authenticated. i say yes to proceed anyway and the aegis says NO DENIED to 2 packages and the remaining 3 fail as the depend on those forst 2 | 17:55 |
| tehdely | i'm trying it right now | 17:56 |
| tehdely | it happily installed it | 17:56 |
| tehdely | if you're getting the unauthenticated error, you probably need to remove the dev repo from your sources.list | 17:56 |
| Avengence | which is that? | 17:57 |
| tehdely | it would only be there if you'd added it | 17:58 |
| Avengence | i have not manually added any repos | 17:58 |
| tehdely | ok then i'm not sure what the problem is | 17:58 |
| Avengence | in fact, i just removed one that some app seemed to add | 17:58 |
| tehdely | i was able to install devtools-debug just now, for the first time ever | 17:58 |
| Avengence | i had devtools-* installed just fine prior to PR1.2 | 17:58 |
| tehdely | i started on pr1.2 | 17:59 |
| tehdely | i'm pretty new o: | 17:59 |
| tehdely | shit, i need breakfast | 17:59 |
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| Avengence | when they roll out a release and the fucking devtools are broken, it makes me think they really didn'y do any testing | 18:00 |
| Avengence | ooh, it compiled! release it! | 18:00 |
| Avengence | It'd be nice if terminal could be exempted from swype. as it is, i have to switch manually every time i go to terminal and switch again when going to anything else | 18:03 |
| Avengence | so why is aegis being a bitch when i have install from non-store sources allowed? | 18:07 |
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| djszapi | hey, any hardware guys here ? | 18:21 |
| Avengence | Aegis is rejexting /var/cache/apt/archives/gdb_7.2-1maemo0+0m6_armel.deb: package 'gdb' origin cannot be determined -- signature check failed | 18:22 |
| djszapi | http://www.satel.com/product/satelline-easy do you know how such a model is supposed to get powered by the relevant adapter ? I see the place for the antenna and the RS* ports. | 18:22 |
| Avengence | aegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected | 18:22 |
| Avengence | OK, so why is aegis checking signatures when I have it set to allow installing from anywhere? | 18:22 |
| Avengence | djszapi: the bototm port is more than just serial | 18:24 |
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| rigo | Avengence, I think we have to create a FAQ for this | 18:32 |
| Avengence | rigo: a FAQ for aegis or for getting devtools working? | 18:33 |
| rigo | for aegis | 18:33 |
| Avengence | a comlete list of all the things aegis breaks would be very nice | 18:33 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: this is a bug in aegis starting with pr1.2 that you're running into | 18:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not a policy denial or something | 18:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you see "signature check failed" it's the bug | 18:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it was just talked about a few screens up | 18:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they /better/ fix this with pr1.3, though i fear they won't | 18:55 |
| Corsac | does this mean installing from non-ovi sources is not possible in 1.3? | 18:56 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: does this mean there's no way to instal stuff from nokia outside the store, like devtools? | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Corsac: no | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it also doesn't mean installing from ovi stores isn't possible in 1.2 either | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it means that you can't install things from certain apt repos only without a workaround | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the only repo anyone cares about affected by the bug, currently, is the harmattan sdk repo | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which nokia refuses to sign (bug 978) | 19:03 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=978 maj, High, ---, ext-lavanya.alamuri, ASSI, Platform SDK repository lacks APT signature - incompatible with PR1.2 | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *installing from outside ovi store | 19:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so could we mirror this SDK repo? | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | aaah, not | 19:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, we could, but that for sure won't fix a thing | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | *sigh* | 19:05 |
| teleshoes | is there a workaround? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | see last UTL in | 19:05 |
| teleshoes | that doesnt involve openmode? | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~aegis | 19:05 |
| infobot | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | URL even | 19:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | I couldn't have put it better | 19:06 |
| djszapi | teleshoes: workaround for which problem ? | 19:07 |
| djszapi | teleshoes: the sdk issue ? | 19:07 |
| Avengence | so the bug refers to the sdk repo as not signed. but i'm not using the sdk repo afaik | 19:07 |
| teleshoes | harmattan sdk | 19:07 |
| teleshoes | yea | 19:07 |
| djszapi | well I fought for that issue ages | 19:07 |
| djszapi | when I was working with Nokia | 19:07 |
| Avengence | at least i never added it | 19:07 |
| djszapi | see the comments. | 19:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so aegis major nastiness of basically breaking all devices once Nokia stops to run their repo stuff already rears its ugly head | 19:09 |
| djszapi | teleshoes: I have been said it is only me wanting the fix. | 19:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang, that been fast | 19:10 |
| djszapi | and I would not quote how I have been called... | 19:10 |
| teleshoes | mm | 19:10 |
| teleshoes | awful | 19:10 |
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| djszapi | though we shipped a fix for aegis-install | 19:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: mirroring it would work | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | even while N9 might be more rugged than N900, I guess in 2 years the latest there will be more working N900 than N9 out in the wild | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as long as the repo is then signed | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (doesn't matter what key) | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however mirroring nokia-binaries would probably be against eula | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mirroring free/non-free would be perfectly kosher i think | 19:13 |
| jonni | not that its any confort for you guys, but Im running my CE N9 against signed PR1.2 repo... :) | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: if you don't mind me asking, which repo is it? | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if it's one you control, you can sign it yourself | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | tbh I give a fsck about EULA that's duping users | 19:14 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: whatever has devtools-debug (and thereby gdb, maemo-debug-scrips, etc) | 19:14 |
| Sazpaimon | e-yes, ping | 19:14 |
| Sazpaimon | oh wait he isn't here | 19:14 |
| Avengence | eula is often illegal, fuck it | 19:14 |
| Sazpaimon | was gonna sk him he if planned on publishing the source for sillyboot | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: forget the eula, but regular old copyright law applies here | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it has nokia's copyrighted stuff inside and they didn't say it can be copied, so it would be running afoul of nokia's copyright | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | Avengence: gdb, devtools? that sounds like SDK | 19:15 |
| Avengence | i'd happily run a mirror if i had resources to do so. if they tried to sue, i'd countersue for their sabotage of something that wasnt even fit for sale in the first place | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | haven't heard of devtools-debug | 19:15 |
| jonni | and you can always do apt-get --download-only install, and then install downloaded packages with dpkg -i even from unsigned repoes... | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: nope, won't work | 19:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | bug kicks in when you try to dpkg -i a package from an unsigned repo, no matter how you do it | 19:16 |
| Avengence | i had the files in the /var/apt/cache and couldnt install them from there | 19:16 |
| jonni | well then wget unsignedrepo....file.deb and then dpkg -i | 19:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: only way is to make it so the dpkg wrapper can't see the apt list files | 19:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that way it doesn't know it's in an apt repo and carries on | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | instead of failing out | 19:17 |
| jonni | wget and dpkg works (as you only have valid nokia apt sources in list) | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: but he doesn't, that's the problem :p | 19:17 |
| djszapi | no | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, nm | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's what you were saying, sorry | 19:17 |
| djszapi | the proper fix is to not use that repository on the device. | 19:18 |
| djszapi | since it was never meant for that. | 19:18 |
| Avengence | DocScrutinizer: several times its been said you have to manuall add sdk repo, but i haven't so i assume that is something else. i see mentions of stuff like bash (sounds useful!) in there, but i have not added any such thing. i just click install on the stuff in the developmer mode of settings and it fails, then i got to apt-get to see why it failed | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, I wonder whom to beat up at Nokia for playing that sort of evil pranks at linux community | 19:19 |
| Avengence | DocScrutinizer: is that sdk repo or not? i havent a clue. i just knowit took over a month for libc6-dbg to get updated so the other stuff would even TRY to install, then fail | 19:19 |
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| Avengence | all other devtools stuff was updated BEFORE PR1.2 could break it all, but -debug and -memory depend on that libc6-dbg that was missing... | 19:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, devtools-debug is a package name | 19:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ...you shouldn't be getting that error | 19:20 |
| Sazpaimon | goddamn they loaded this sandwich with onions | 19:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | do cat /etc/apt/sources.list.d/* /etc/apt/sources.list | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | see if there's anything there that's not a) apps for meego, b) original nokia device repos (00x, apps, tools) | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if so, remove it from the corresponding file | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | do apt-get update | 19:21 |
| Sazpaimon | i know it says it had onions on it, but this is just silly | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | now, do pkgmgr install -p devtools-debug | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | see what happens | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *something* isn't right | 19:21 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | i'll bbl | 19:22 |
| Avengence | i figure, how the fuck can they be saying dont add the sdk repo if thats the one with devtools-* vpackages | 19:22 |
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| * djszapi is quite happy with the desktop components | 19:22 | |
| teleshoes | {quick offtopic gush: smsbackuprestore is wonderful} | 19:22 |
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| Avengence | i already deleted one foreign repo, sheerwater was in the domnain but it was 404ing and i never added it, so i guess some app did (ugly) | 19:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: i bet you added the sdk repo | 19:23 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | and the sdk repo might have packages that are trumping the real packages in apt | 19:23 |
| teleshoes | admiral0! | 19:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then aegis balks when they | 19:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | are attempted to be installed | 19:23 |
| *** admiral0 is now known as admiral0hello | 19:23 | |
| *** admiral0hello is now known as admiral0 | 19:23 | |
| admiral0 | hello | 19:23 |
| Avengence | how would i accidentally add a repo? can a package just do it? | 19:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, there's a solution for this, i just told you | 19:24 |
| admiral0 | teleshoes! | 19:24 |
| teleshoes | heh | 19:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer wonders if Sazpaimon is just OT or speaking in quite matching metaphors | 19:24 | |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: can you paste the safe list of repos? | 19:24 |
| teleshoes | admiral0 so whats the fix for a 12mm x 12mm oplogo? | 19:24 |
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| teleshoes | started happening to me on your 2.0 pre-alpha | 19:24 |
| Sazpaimon | pretty sure libc6-dbg is an sdk package | 19:25 |
| Sazpaimon | i know I dont have it | 19:25 |
| admiral0 | that code is flawed | 19:26 |
| admiral0 | it has to be polished yet | 19:26 |
| admiral0 | it was 1400 loc | 19:27 |
| admiral0 | now it's 1900 and growing | 19:27 |
| admiral0 | and does caching | 19:27 |
| admiral0 | :) | 19:27 |
| teleshoes | nice! | 19:27 |
| admiral0 | but displays empty logo lol | 19:27 |
| teleshoes | heh | 19:27 |
| admiral0 | have to debug it... | 19:27 |
| Avengence | sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-001.list contains ../harmattan/001, /apps, /tools | 19:27 |
| Avengence | sources.list.d/osa.list contains "deb-exec /usr/bin/osa" | 19:28 |
| teleshoes | this bug is apparently affecting 1.4 as well: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1178276&postcount=156 | 19:28 |
| teleshoes | thats exactly what mine looks like | 19:28 |
| teleshoes | it worked perfectly well up until yesterday, too | 19:28 |
| teleshoes | and, weirdly, reflashing didnt help | 19:29 |
| Avengence | sources.list itself contains harmattan/sdk free non-free, harmattan/sdk free, harmattan/(longnum) nokia-binaries | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | SDK! | 19:30 |
| Avengence | so , i'm going to guess that everthing dropped in the sources.list.d is safe but that in the sources.list file iself the first 2 are sdk repo lines | 19:30 |
| Avengence | can i safelyt edit that file without aegus flipping out? | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~may-i-edit | 19:31 |
| infobot | mayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } | 19:31 |
| Avengence | and WAHT PUT THAT SHIT IN THAT FILE!??!?!?!?!? | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | foobar.install? | 19:31 |
| teleshoes | probably a copy/pasted soln from tmo | 19:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno how repos are added on HARM | 19:31 |
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| Avengence | so, i better uninstall ALL the devtools-* packages and their deps before i pull these repos so i can then install the proper set of devtools | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess there are several ways it might sneak in there without you explicitly editing it | 19:32 |
| Avengence | is the last entry in that file safe, or is the whole thing bad? | 19:33 |
| admiral0 | itsnotabigtruck: how are you dude? | 19:33 |
| Sazpaimon | all of them | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | another proof that aegis never was about *your* (the user's) security, it even frequently opened new attack vectors for all kinds of DOS | 19:33 |
| Avengence | the last one doesnt say sdk, but not sure if it got there at same time or what "nokia-binaries" means in this context | 19:34 |
| teleshoes | admiral0 so if you happen to come across the soln, plz lemme know | 19:34 |
| Sazpaimon | its part of the SDK | 19:34 |
| admiral0 | teleshoes: sure | 19:35 |
| admiral0 | i'll probably release 2.0 soon | 19:35 |
| admiral0 | i had issues with rendering code | 19:35 |
| Avengence | DocScrutinizer: of course not, aegis doesnt even take a sane approach for user security. the direction its coming from makes it clear it'd never work for that. meanwhile, huge amounts of important data is left sitting in the clear (i.e. the maildirs are NOT encrypted while other less important stuff in homedir is) | 19:36 |
| admiral0 | and render hints are not implemented yet | 19:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | Avengence: :nod: | 19:36 |
| Avengence | i delted sources.list completely (not in the refhash) and ran upt-get update | 19:38 |
| jonni | thats why MfE forces devicelock so emails are protected against theft. | 19:39 |
| Avengence | it pulled in some stuff and said devtools-debug is installed but missing deps (so it stayed part in). i ran apt-get -f install and it seems happy | 19:39 |
| Avengence | jonni: device lock is not sufficient. if it were, there's be no need to encrypt the FS at all | 19:39 |
| Avengence | jonni: obviously, its possible to read the data without unlocking the device and thats why it should be encrypted | 19:40 |
| Avengence | even if devicelock worked flawless, i could still rip out your nand chip and read your email if i got my hands on your phone | 19:40 |
| luke-jr | … | 19:40 |
| luke-jr | just intercept it at the SMTP servers | 19:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, back earlier than i expected | 19:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | admiral0: doing alright :) | 19:40 |
| luke-jr | email is never secure | 19:40 |
| jonni | well yes if your mails have million dollar secrets then someone might read the nand | 19:41 |
| Avengence | luke-jr: emailv can be. say, email on a closed network.. | 19:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: just keep anything with repo.apps.formeego.org or downloads.maemo.nokia.com | 19:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | drop anything else | 19:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: well, it should be assumed that all mails and everything else contain million dollar secrets | 19:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also one could use encrypted email (e.g. s/mime, another thing that didn't get implemented :( ) | 19:42 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: exactly! | 19:42 |
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| Avengence | i was thinking pgp rather than smime, but yes, you can also encrypyt the email in transit but your sent copies are usually in the clear still so those have to be secured as well as your keys | 19:43 |
| Avengence | is there some way to ask dpkg what packages of all those installed have no corresponding repo? | 19:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: the thing is that S/MIME is already supported on a bunch of other phones (namely the iphone, blackberry, wm6, and possibly wp7) | 19:45 |
| jonni | well yes, but even if you use linux and whatever mail usually .mail dir is unencrypted, so why arent you fussing about ubuntu not encrypting emails? :) | 19:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and the n9 already has a certificate manager feature built in | 19:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: because you can easily apply full disk encryption to that ubuntu machine | 19:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the user can make it as secure as s/he wants it to be | 19:46 |
| deram | and ubuntu has encrypted home dir features | 19:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with the N9, outside of extraordinary measures you're pretty much stuck when it comes to securing anythign | 19:46 |
| jonni | well you can create aegisfs to .qmf if you really want to. | 19:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and like i was talking about before aegisfs isn't really trustable | 19:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if someone can lift the unencrypted data off your flash, they can probably trivially circumvent aegisfs | 19:47 |
| Avengence | the problem wiuth s/mime is its rarely used because it sucks. implementations are not compatible due to implementing differing sets of ciphers on various clients, certain crucial things are optional (for example, including the date inside the signed body is optional, and if not there its impossible to verify the signature in a meaningful way if theres ever a revocation), and the reliance on cert chains means nobody wants to use it except huge | 19:48 |
| Avengence | orgs that runs their on CA | 19:48 |
| Avengence | really, how many people are going to go pay verisign $200 for a cert to be able to encrypt their email for 1 year? | 19:49 |
| Avengence | answser: NONE | 19:49 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Avengence: there's 3 cas that give out trusted s/mime certs for free | 19:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or you could self-sign | 19:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the level of trust is pretty rudimentary, it's just e-mail validation | 19:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's comparable to a gpg key with a signature from the pgp directory or cacert or something | 19:50 |
| Avengence | self-sign and it means nobody will be able to decrypt your mail without adding your key to their trusted list manually | 19:50 |
| Avengence | assuming they can even do that... | 19:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | other way around, but yeah | 19:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | people would have trouble sending you encrypted mail with a self-signed cert | 19:51 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | the other thing is that most email clients have fairly good integrated s/mime support | 19:51 |
| Avengence | pgp has a much lower bar to entry in that the whole CA nonsense is not present and that is STILL too much for most people | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | gpg has never integrated well into any gui email client | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's plugins for most but they aren't very good | 19:51 |
| Avengence | gpg integrated better than s/mime in all i used... | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. outlook, tbird, etc. have s/mime without installing anything | 19:52 |
| admiral0 | itsnotabigtruck: nope | 19:52 |
| admiral0 | itsnotabigtruck: kmail has integrated gpg support | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | admiral0: ok, kmail is the exception | 19:52 |
| Avengence | i wasted a few years of my life on s/mime for uise in a closed network with a isolated set of CAs (.gov bullshit) | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i forgot it used gpg as a crypto backend | 19:52 |
| Tronic | I guess that the headers still go unencrypted with all the systems? | 19:53 |
| Avengence | outlok and apple.mail for example are not exactly compatible s/mime clients. they can each make a message the other cant decrypt under various circumstances | 19:53 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: yeah, including the subject | 19:54 |
| Avengence | i know the ones that outlook cant read from apple mail.app are due to the way its chunked when asn1 encoded, but i didnt bother to figure out the reverse issue | 19:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | bbl | 19:54 |
| * Tronic is /really/ looking forward to a mail/im/chat/voicecom system that would properly use encryption for all messaging and make it easy enough to use (e.g. auto-generated keys). | 19:54 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | the main problem i've seen is that windows xp + outlook can't do AES | 19:54 |
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| Avengence | Tronic: see OTR for IM, ZRTP for VoIP | 19:54 |
| Avengence | itsnotabigtruck: diferent versions of outlook can even choke when the DES modes they support dont overlap | 19:55 |
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| Tronic | Avengence: Thanks, hadn't heard of ZRTP before. | 19:56 |
| Tronic | Avengence: Can you recommend clients for that? | 19:57 |
| Avengence | think one ouitlook in a less than 128bit restricted area tries to communicate with another that is running on a windows instance that has policy set not to allow ciphers under 128bit to be used. blam! cant decrypt messages sent either way | 19:57 |
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| Avengence | Tronic: both those are crypto systems that operate transparently over the underlying protocol. if both ends have it, its used automatically | 19:57 |
| Avengence | Tronic: for zrtp, you dont need it in the client (though a few have it). you just need the app running. it'll see each rtp sessiion that is established from whatever voip softeware you use and opportunistically encrypt them | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | ZRTP: see twinklephone.com | 19:59 |
| Avengence | this brings another thing to mind... anyone working on an otr plugin or proxy for N9? the extra im addons would be more useful with it | 20:00 |
| Avengence | DocScrutinizer: hows that compare to ekiga? i've been using the latter as i heard good things about its video, but it (and/or the ekiga.net sip service) does very poorly behind nat. also, the build opt for zrtp support is broken (apparently unmaintaned as the zrtp sdk evolved) | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | Avengence: I dunno current state, it's basically orphaned since quite a long time | 20:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | no video | 20:05 |
| Avengence | HHAHA, wikth that sdk repo gone, flashplayer can install! | 20:05 |
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| Avengence | video doesnt matter much when the call cant connect... | 20:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ekiga never really worked for me | 20:06 |
| Avengence | i'm interested in how is it as a phone in general, hows the zrtp, and how well does it cope with nat | 20:06 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: no OTR! | 20:07 |
| Avengence | ekiga.net sip server is too screwy to work with the N9 sip except a few random chance times | 20:07 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: standard PGP please | 20:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | twinkle has no special magic for e.g. STUN, it does the usual stuff. But it worked great and still does on my PC here | 20:07 |
| Avengence | luke-jr: PGP and OTR are for completely different things! | 20:08 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: but PGP is the standard | 20:08 |
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| Avengence | pgp is for email, not im | 20:09 |
| Avengence | otr is for im, it wont even do email | 20:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | Avengence: quite a number of - if not all - SIP providers use twinklephone for refernce to check their SIP compliance and service quality | 20:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | means twinkle probably has the best SIP stack out there | 20:10 |
| Jare | I've used Jitsi lately. It seems to support a lot of different encryption options e.g. on sip or im | 20:11 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: PGP is for IM too | 20:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | Avengence: ZRTP integration worked like a charm when I tested it | 20:11 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: and the best IM client supports PGP but not OTR | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | Avengence: btw twinkle supports IM via SIMPLE | 20:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't blame me if I got the SIMPLE part wrong ;-) | 20:13 |
| Avengence | cool, ill give it a try | 20:13 |
| Avengence | got any free sip providers to recommend as alternative to ekiga.net? | 20:14 |
| Avengence | luke-jr: which is that? i've never heards of pgp over im (excepty some impractical atempt at using it on xmpp) | 20:14 |
| Jare | http://jitsi.org/index.php/Main/Features | 20:15 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: Psi | 20:15 |
| Avengence | luke-jr: wrong, try again. psi is not the best IM client, it doesn't support any protocols i need | 20:20 |
| Avengence | jitsi sounds nice, but it just plain didnt work went i tried it, i'll blame if on being java b/c thats a safe bet for the root of the problem | 20:21 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: Psi supports only the standard protocol, which is part of why it is the best. | 20:22 |
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| luke-jr | no bs least-common-denominator crap | 20:22 |
| Avengence | luke-jr: you mean the protocol that nobody uses | 20:25 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: everybody worth talking to* | 20:25 |
| luke-jr | plus Facebook users | 20:25 |
| Avengence | thats nobody | 20:25 |
| Avengence | if you use facebook, you probably arent worth even saying hello to | 20:26 |
| luke-jr | I see 104 users online out of 643 on my list | 20:26 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: hence "plus" | 20:26 |
| * mgedmin wonders if that standard protocol is XMPP | 20:26 | |
| luke-jr | mgedmin: ofc | 20:26 |
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| luke-jr | (and yes, I'm aware XMPP has some annoyances; but it's still standard) | 20:27 |
| Avengence | DocScrutinizer: ahh, now i remember why i didnt use twinkle before. its not QT4 and having QT3 side by side causes problems | 20:27 |
| mgedmin | so in Avengence's universe nobody uses Google Talk? Okay. | 20:27 |
| Jare | Avengence: I had some issues running it on an older linux laptop. So, I guess it would be quite a bit better performance wise, if it wasn't coded in Java... | 20:27 |
| Avengence | the only large xmpp network i'm aware of is gootletalk, but they break trhe standards (i.e, jingle for voice/video instead of the xmpp standard) | 20:27 |
| luke-jr | Avengence: Jingle *is* the XMPP standard | 20:28 |
| Avengence | mgedmin: i dont use google talk as i dont use any google services, just search | 20:28 |
| Avengence | luke-jr: jingle is something google puled ou their ass, there was voice and video standards for xmpp before that, just barely used | 20:28 |
| Avengence | single google did their think and then gave away jingle it might have effectively become part of the standard | 20:29 |
| * luke-jr is happy he can talk to Google Talk users without using Google Talk. | 20:29 | |
| Avengence | regardless, theres no xmpp network i know anybody on except gtalk, and all those people have aim, icq, msn, skype or something else through which i communicate with them | 20:30 |
| Avengence | until google ceases to be evil and gives me back my data, i will advicate against thier use as they are yetr another untruistworthy evil corporation | 20:31 |
| Avengence | they've ruined far too much of the internet already | 20:31 |
| Avengence | sometimes I have to wonder if the KDE4 clusterfuck scared off a certain class of users and developers as there are some apps that never really maded it over to QT4. i.e. most of the nice FTP clients are either QT3 or GTK+, none in QT4. same for SIP clients, only thing for QT4 was kcall but that was to use decibel which is dead so... | 20:37 |
| * admiral0 has just seen yet another kde4-butthurt user... | 20:49 | |
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| Avengence | i like most of KDE4 (now), but I know there were a bunch who didnt (especially those that jumped on 4.0) and I wonder if some of those were devs of the apps that are more in the power-users realm | 20:54 |
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| Avengence | i don 't like that som patrs are still less functrional than KDE3, but at this point overall KDE4 is more usable since KDE3 isnt maintained | 20:55 |
| Avengence | and both are more usable than gnome | 20:55 |
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| admiral0 | Avengence: i use kde since pre-4.0 | 22:35 |
| Avengence | then you were likely expecting it and not one of those shocked when they installed 4.0 and expected it to be like 3 but a little flashier or whatever | 22:40 |
| Avengence | i think the change was too much too soon in that there should have been the move to QT4 then change architectural pieces, but cant change that now so QT5 is around the corner and the pim stuff in kde4.8 is still maybe beta | 22:41 |
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| liar | why can't i loop mount a file (with ext2) on the nokia n9? | 22:58 |
| liar | it says "permission denied, are you root?" | 22:58 |
| liar | but i logged in via devel-su | 22:59 |
| Aard | probably aegis does not let you do it | 22:59 |
| piggz__ | aegis - saving you from yourself 24hours a day | 23:00 |
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| xmlich02 | Hi guys, we are making and 21st April openmobility conference in Prague. Please let us know if you want to make talk there. Please post it on twitter/facebook/anywhere. Details are at http://www.openmobility.eu/en/ There is also an competition (you can win N9 and 2x N950) | 23:07 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | liar: incept your phone and try again from opensh | 23:16 |
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