IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2012-03-20

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gabriel9my god this Prometheus movie will be great00:05
ajalkaneRidley Scott can not fail us in sci-fi context. No, he can't.00:06
ajalkaneHe'd like to. But he's unable to.00:06
ajalkaneCall it his weakness.00:06
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ajalkaneI bet he hates all the sci-fi nerds clamoring over his movies. And he'd like to create a total flop of a sci-fi movie.00:06
ajalkanePoor guy. He can't.00:07
gabriel9well this is not alien00:16
gabriel9it is from the same universe00:16
gabriel9but i think this will be better00:16
ajalkaneBetter than Alien and Bladerunner?00:16
gabriel9the whole mith about prometheus is great00:16
gabriel9well better then Alien, but not better then Bladerunner00:17
gabriel9i always wodner who create that ship(from Alien 1)00:17
ajalkanewell, H.R Giger... your answer is here:
gabriel9nice read00:23
gabriel9i did not watch good sf fopr ages00:25
ajalkanethere's not a whole lot of good sf besides books00:25
ajalkanebecause it has to be, like, be explosions and action and stuff. Which kinda misses the point what makes sf interesting.00:26
gabriel9i agree00:31
gabriel9there is just to much hollywod in movies thease days00:31
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gabriel9sorry for bad Eng, i am working on it00:32
gabriel9this one is not bad00:33
gabriel9well not so bad, it can be watched00:34
itsnotabigtruckajalkane: ping00:36
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jpwhitinghey all, is there a way to check power usage on N9?00:59
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ieatlintsysteminfo app will tell you the current usage01:01
itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: nokia energy profiler?01:02
* jpwhiting taps Energy Profiler to see what it will tell him01:02
jpwhitingyep, trying that one now01:02
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jpwhitingitsnotabigtruck: can I get a total power used per second or something from nokia energy profiler?01:03
ieatlintenergy profiler won't give specific info, and some in this channel will talk extensively about how inaccurate it is01:03
itsnotabigtrucki haven't actually tried EP yet01:03
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ieatlintas i understand, it's based solely on measuring the number of cpu interrupts an application causes01:04
ieatlintand then weighs it against other apps and the system services to determine a percentage of the power used by each item01:05
ieatlintbut i'm not too clear on it myself :P01:05
ieatlinteither way, i know it won't simply tell you that your app uses X mwh or anything01:05
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ieatlintyou can get a reading for how much power the whole system is drawing from the battery though.. so you can make reasonable guesses to that by comparing the system power usage with your app on vs idle01:08
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jpwhitingieatlint: well, I'd like to compare my app in active mode vs my app in idle mode01:09
jpwhitingwith numbers to prove that it's using less energy in idle mode01:09
ieatlintthere'll always be a bit of guess work in that01:10
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jpwhitingieatlint: is there a way to get numbers from EP?01:17
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SpeedEvilEnergy profiler is pretty good in general01:26
SpeedEvilcomplete bme* from shell01:27
SpeedEvilbme-datalogger - IIRC - is a quite nice shell program.01:27
SpeedEvilPretty awesome really01:27
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bradfoanyway to sideload any of the card reader payment apps08:44
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liarhi, i have an issue with my n9: i can't install any software (aegis rejecting -- signature check failed) altough i've disabled all third party repositories, has anybody an idea what i could do?10:22
liarfor example it fails to install devtools-tracing10:23
liarif i do a device reset will that delete my data in MyDocs?10:29
jonniwhat pr are you running and have you managed to install anything in that pr before?10:33
jonniand have you installed any sw from 3rd party repoes?10:34
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liarjonni: PR1.2, and i've got vim installed from the rzr repository and one extra deb package (vgb)10:57
liari also cannot install fennec from the store...10:57
liarjonni: and i've managed to install things before (some things from the store)10:59
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liari've got to reboot my computer, brb11:02
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liarjonni: any ideas?11:12
jonniliar: most likely you have broken your system with rzr repo and you need to reflash the whole system.... or you can do it on the hard way and fix it from commandline11:13
liarjonni: yeah i'd like to try the command line way but i don't know whats wrong so i don't know where to start...11:14
jonniand are you sure that it fails because signature check fail, and not because origin cannot be determined -- signature check failed error11:14
jonniwell running dpkg is pretty informative, like dpkg -f install, apt-get update, apt-get install devtools-tracing, etc11:16
liaryes it's the origin cannot be determined one11:16
jonniwhich basicly means that rzr package didnt manage to install all its depencies, and you need first to fix them in order to continue11:17
jonnitmo forums has multiple threads about that11:17
liarand if i end up resetting my device, will that delete everything in MyDocs?11:19
jonnidont know what you mean by resetting, erase-user-data vs erase-mmc vs flash firmware vs flash emmc vs restting from UI?11:20
jonnierase-mmc and flashing emmc will delete everything in MyDocs.11:20
liarah i didn't know there are different reset methods...11:21
jonniand flashing firmware wont, unless you paste special flags to flasher11:21
liarhm ok, thanks for the help11:27
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jonnibut anyways everything is fixable by commandline, but if your not familiar with dpkg, then flashing is just easier. In my viewpoint rzr repo and all other 3rd party repoes should have big font 76 warning texts that do not add repo unless you are familiar with dpkg and are able to recover from any issue that you will get.11:31
jonnias if your not familiar with inner workings of dpkg&aegis combination, then its quite common to end up in the situation where you need to reflash your device.11:32
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xmlich02I have problem with device storage and do not know how to fix it. When i use Settings - Device - Data storage - it reports Application data not available in mass storage mode. It happens when is device disconnected.14:23
jonnisettings,accessories,usb you can manually just change the mode to sdk/sync and connect yourself14:26
rdnzlqml noob asks: when application is closed by swiping it down - is there an event i can use to do some cleanup?14:29
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xmlich02i don't know why is not the /dev/mmcblk0p3 /home mounted. Anyone knows what can i do?14:46
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jonnireboot is always the 1st thing to try, and if you happen to have mount capas then you can try to mount it yourself. and if nothing else works then reflash emmc.14:58
jonnialthough mass storage is mmcblk0p1, so if you have p3 screwed then it has nothing to do with device storage15:00
jonniif you have p3 screwed then you need to reflash the firmware.15:02
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lilltigerSo I am using the cutom kernel on my N9 and I wonder if I still can install the new update?17:43
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padoes anybody know where is the current wallpaper kept?17:53
paah thanks! that's the one that is shown in the lock scren?17:55
teleshoesno sorry17:55
pai mean the one that is shown after you crop it17:55
pacoz apparently theres no way not to crop the wallpaper17:55
teleshoesthats the background for the home-screen-thing17:55
teleshoesjust make it a 480x854 jpeg somewhere else17:55
pai made it so17:56
pabut when i choose it17:56
pathe system makes me crop it17:56
pano matter what17:56
paand the bloody app cuts a part18:02
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paah ok18:06
pai got how to get it full18:06
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itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: the new update?18:13
itsnotabigtruckpr1.3 is out?18:13
phakoitsnotabigtruck: nope18:14
itsnotabigtruckphako: i'd have been quite surprised if it was...then what is lilltiger talking about18:14
phakomaybe he finally received 1.2?18:15
phakoor it was a hypothetical question for future update18:15
itsnotabigtruckoh, must be18:15
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lilltigeritsnotabigtruck: yes the new that came today here in sweden18:50
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lilltigeris the version of it18:52
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teleshoesanyone know how to get a faster dpkg?19:26
itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: ok, that's PR1.219:26
itsnotabigtruckand it's been around for a while19:26
itsnotabigtruckbut i guess the swedish country variant just arrived19:26
itsnotabigtruckyou could have loaded the worldwide version a month or so ago :p19:27
lilltigerhmm, but I got ne back then as well19:27
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: it's slow because /usr/bin/dpkg is actually part of aegis, and it's a gigantic, inefficient, perl script19:27
itsnotabigtruckand i don't think you can do anything about that if you want aegis to stay in sync, without perhaps rewriting it properly19:28
teleshoesmm; and if i didnt care about aegis?19:28
lilltigerbut indeed seems like i only have 1.1 installed19:28
lilltigerBut can I upgrade to 1.2 when using the open kernel?19:29
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: well, even in open mode, if you cut aegis-install out of the equation, anything that needs to assert privileges won't work19:29
itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: i don't think you can, at least, i wouldn't advise it19:29
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure if anyone's tested it19:29
itsnotabigtruckupgrading from 1.2 with open kernel to 1.3 definitely won't work19:29
itsnotabigtruckactually, yeah, don't try it19:29
itsnotabigtruckin either scenario it won't work properly19:29
teleshoesi tried it! dont do it19:29
teleshoespr1.1 to pr1.2 ssu?19:29
teleshoesdidnt go well19:30
itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: instead you should flash your phone with a firmware image19:30
itsnotabigtrucknow that they released an update for variant 339 you could download and flash that19:30
itsnotabigtruckhowever, there's no real advantage to those variant versions and you'll have to wait forever for 1.3 then19:30
itsnotabigtruckso i'd recommend downloading and flashing 1.2 variant 001 instead19:30
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itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: so what you would do is flash the main image only19:31
itsnotabigtruckthen flash the hacked kernel for 1.219:31
lilltigerbut wont i get the aegis crap back then?19:32
itsnotabigtruckin fact i think you could do it like19:32
itsnotabigtruckflasher -f -F main.img --kernel=hackedzimage19:32
teleshoesopenmode kernel 1.2 here:
itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: yeah, so download the 001 image using navifirm (follow my guide)19:33
itsnotabigtruckand download that hacked kernel that teleshoes linked19:33
itsnotabigtruckthen, when you get to the line under "replace operating system"19:33
itsnotabigtruckuse the command i just stated instead19:33
itsnotabigtruckwhere hackedzimage is the kernel you downloaded19:33
lilltigeralthought, is it worth the upgrade, and is 1.3 on it's way, maybe better to wait for it?19:33
itsnotabigtruckalternatively, you could skip all this open mode business and get incepted instead19:34
itsnotabigtruckwhere you would go to closed mode, then install inception and take control of aegis19:34
lilltigerhmm, maybe19:35
itsnotabigtrucklilltiger: 1.3's on its way but it'll still be weeks before it's released, no doubt19:35
teleshoeslilltiger: it is worth it to upgrade, pr1.3 is not imminent19:35
itsnotabigtruckand then you have to wait even longer if you want to use a hacked open mode kernel19:35
itsnotabigtrucksince they generally take their time with source code releases19:35
lilltigerwell just weeks are nothing rely, and tbh i doubt i have any use of anything they added in 1.219:36
itsnotabigtruckso yeah, option a) open mode route - do what i just discussed19:36
itsnotabigtruckoption b) inception route - do a "comprehensive reset" with pr1.2, skip the open mode kernel, install inception after enabling dev mode19:36
itsnotabigtruckand pr1.2 is a definite upgrade19:37
itsnotabigtruckyou should install it19:37
teleshoeslilltiger pr1.2 is nice; everything is a bit snappier, a bit more cleaned up. its not just new features19:38
lilltigeri read thriught the changes and seemd to be nothing i want¨19:38
teleshoesi agree no new, exciting features; its the tons of small things that make it worthwhile19:38
lilltigerwell ill see what ill do, I just use it for podcast right now anyway :P19:39
lilltigerI dont evean have a sim-car in it19:39
lilltigerthought I had it since it was realeased :)19:39
itsnotabigtrucknote that if you go the inception route you'll probably have less trouble going to pr1.319:41
itsnotabigtruckthough, don't install pr1.3 until you check what the inception status is19:41
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teleshoesi thought there would be a pr1.3 openmode kernel for sure, while probably not inception19:42
teleshoesor do you just mean that we wont have to wait weeks for the sources if we're incepting19:42
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: for open mode: can't have a hacked kernel until you have kernel sources19:43
itsnotabigtruckand nokia doesn't release those until well after the release itself19:43
teleshoesmm, and those take weeks judgin by the past19:43
itsnotabigtrucksomebody has to put in a source code request, which they take their time in fulfilling, which they respond to with a dvd sent by snail mail :p19:44
itsnotabigtruckthough you can go into open mode without hacking the kernel19:44
itsnotabigtruckas for inception, don't bet on nokia stopping it for long :p19:45
teleshoesoh? thats intriguing19:45
teleshoesthanks for that19:47
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teleshoesso im torn between liking the idea of role-based permission sets, with the user at the controls, telling their apps what they can and cant do instead of vice-versa,19:49
teleshoesand just fucking hating aegis with a passion19:49
teleshoeswith inception, ill never have a fast dpkg, and i wont just be able to throw debs from squeeze in will-he, nill-he19:50
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: and that's the problem with aegis, it doesn't have roles19:51
teleshoeswith open!mode, i wont get the comfort and stability afforded by a sensible security framework19:51
itsnotabigtruckalso what's up with this ridiculous "open!mode" nomenclature of doc's19:51
teleshoesi know, right19:51
teleshoesat least its unambiguous19:52
itsnotabigtruckwell, "hacked kernel" or something works19:52
teleshoesyou can hack a kernel to do lots of things19:52
itsnotabigtruckanyway, like i said before, you can't just lose aegis-install entirely19:52
teleshoesopen!mode means 'minimally hacked to cripple aegis as much as possible without breaking things'19:52
itsnotabigtruckeven in "open!mode"19:53
teleshoesin pr1.1, aegis-install would fail all the time19:53
itsnotabigtruckbecause then if you install a package it won't obtain any permission grants19:53
itsnotabigtruckso some things will break19:53
teleshoesand it didnt matter19:53
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itsnotabigtruckwhat do you mean "would fail all the time"19:53
itsnotabigtruckremember that most packages don't actually make permission assertions19:53
itsnotabigtruckbut it's the ones that do that you have to worry about19:53
teleshoeswhen installing a package that made bad permission assertions, it would fail, dpkg would continue,19:53
teleshoesand everything would still work19:54
teleshoeser, 'made bad perm assertions' isnt exactly what i mean19:54
itsnotabigtruckaegis-install keeps going if you make a permission request you're not allowed to19:54
itsnotabigtruckit just excludes the permissions that weren't allowed19:54
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teleshoesi guess thats what i mean19:54
itsnotabigtruckit's not a failure, more like a warning19:55
teleshoestho it DID fail on openmode, and didnt on open!mode19:55
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teleshoesthe open!mode kernel on pr1.1 seemed to be losing aegis-install entirely19:56
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itsnotabigtruckexcept it doesn't, changing the kernel doesn't do anything to userland19:57
itsnotabigtruckgoing into open mode does change the behavior of aegis-install a little19:57
itsnotabigtruckbut it doesn't disable or override it entirely19:57
teleshoesso, aegis never stopped me from doing any obscene things in open!mode on pr1.119:58
teleshoeslike installing dpkg from debian squeeze19:58
teleshoesor su-ing as user19:59
itsnotabigtruckaegis-install diverts dpkg to dpkg.real19:59
itsnotabigtruckso if you swapped out dpkg, you probably actually replaced dpkg.real19:59
teleshoesprobably; i broke lots of things and had to reflash20:00
itsnotabigtruckthat wouldn't stop aegis-install from doing its thing, it might cause some weird results though20:00
teleshoesim not sure whether i actually got dpkg from debian working20:01
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teleshoeswhat im asking is why aegis-install is vital, if the place where the assertions in the installed application actually happen is in the kernel20:02
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itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: because aegis-install is what updates the aegis configuration20:03
itsnotabigtruckit tells the k-mode aegis stuff what to do20:03
teleshoesi see20:03
teleshoesso, ill just have to do deal with dpkg -s taking a full second20:04
itsnotabigtruckbtw, has anyone seen djszapi around20:04
teleshoesduring which perl is mostly just compiling20:04
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: so what was decided about whatsapp port yesterday?20:05
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: not sure anything was :p hopefully tgalal will end up going with telepathy20:07
itsnotabigtruckprobably could have been more tactful about the whole thing20:07
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djszapihey, is the Qt Ambassador phone we got a gift ?20:08
teleshoesdoes anyone know if nemo is usable on the n9 yet?20:09
djszapiit is not.20:09
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faenilhey guys :)20:09
faenilOT question, does anyone know how to tell your computer (win, lin, osx) to only accept DHCP offers from a particular IP?20:10
teleshoesthats pretty darn ot, indeed:
djszapiteleshoes: nemo is IMO worse than ever.20:12
teleshoeshow so?20:13
djszapiprobably lack of QA process against regressions.20:13
jonnifaenil: dhclient -s IP20:14
teleshoesdo you happen to know if, and how well, nemo does telephony/sms these days?20:15
djszapiteleshoes: sms does not work for me20:16
faeniljonni, ok so that only SENDS your dhcp messages to that server :)20:16
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: do better if you can20:16
teleshoesmeego seems like it could eventually be a really cool operating system20:16
djszapiteleshoes: and afaih for some other people either. :/20:16
faenilteleshoes, I don't have access to switches of the network20:17
faenilteleshoes, we're users, and there are a lot of rogue dhcp servers (basically routers of other people which don't let you turn DHCP off in their firmware)20:17
teleshoeswhat jonni said is what you want, for linux20:17
faenilteleshoes, yeah, more or less :) the problem is I'd need to only apply that on some wifi connections, not all20:18
teleshoesZogG_laptop, are you a nemo-er?20:19
ZogG_laptopteleshoes: meh, i'm noob20:19
djszapiteleshoes: I used to developer for that, and it was really prospereous back then at meego times.20:20
djszapieven before it was called meego developer edition.20:20
ZogG_laptopwhen there were no computers20:20
djszapiI have always been told it was getting better, but nowadays even the functionalities do not work which worked one year ago for the community edition.20:20
ZogG_laptopback than at 100 BC20:20
jonnifaenil: well you can always setup iptables to filter ports 67 and 68 and only allow specific ip through.20:21
faeniljonni, yeah, I could, but I need something idiot-proof :)20:21
teleshoesregression qa can be rough, especially in such an environment20:21
jonnifaenil: iptables is idiot-proof20:22
faeniljonni, to people who don't know what an ip is?20:22
jonnifaenil: you make a script that they execute20:22
faenilyes that could be an idea, but how to make it only work when connected to a particular connection20:23
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faenilI could tell them to run it before connecting and run the "disable" script after disconnecting...20:24
MohammadAG/home/mohammad/QtSDK/Madde/sysroots/harmattan_sysroot_10.2011.34-1_slim/usr/include/meegotouch/mseparatormodel.h:33: error: expected constructor, destructor, or type conversion before 'class'20:25
MohammadAGthe fuck20:25
djszapiMohammadAG: your include path is okay ?20:25
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djszapimeegotouch has a funny including style :)20:26
MohammadAGdjszapi, nothing changed20:26
djszapisure...but perhaps you use a new include file which is not proper.20:27
djszapiit happens with meegotouch.20:27
djszapicheck out the header file at that line20:27
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: ping20:28
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: query?20:29
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: ping20:29
* ZogG_laptop is ping-man20:29
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teleshoeshey, anyone know how to control the camera led flash?20:36
teleshoeson an n920:36
teleshoesthere are apps in the app store, but none are open source, so i cant figure out what theyre doing20:36
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ZogG_laptopi think there are oprnsource ones as well20:37
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itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: probably qcamera20:40
itsnotabigtruckyou could always try REing them ;)20:40
teleshoes...or its FCam::N9::Flash20:42
teleshoesjust found that on harmattan-dev20:42
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teleshoesugh, i dont have scratchbox working for pr1.2, and i cant install g++ on the phone20:44
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: fcam is a little overkill, it wasn't added until 1.220:54
itsnotabigtruckthough it was backported20:54
itsnotabigtruckso you can get it installed back to 1.020:54
itsnotabigtruckit's a super low level camera control system20:54
itsnotabigtruckand i want to see some cool stuff built with it but no one's interested20:54
teleshoessounds pretty cool20:54
teleshoesall i want tho,20:55
teleshoesis flash control from the command line20:55
teleshoesso yea, its overkill20:55
teleshoesi was kinda hoping there was a dbus signal for it20:55
MohammadAGZogG_laptop, ?20:56
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ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: query?20:57
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: solved that 2nd empty reply bug in imgrup btw with help +)20:57
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MohammadAGZogG_laptop, you didn't send any20:58
teleshoesugh, i hate not being able to just compile things on-device20:58
MohammadAGyou could install g++20:58
teleshoes  g++-4.4: Depends: libstdc++6-4.4-dev (= 4.4.1-0maemo14+0m6) but it is not going to be installed20:58
MohammadAGok so apt-get install libstdc++6-4.4-dev and see why20:59
teleshoesits libc6-dev20:59
teleshoeslibc6-dev: Depends: libc6 (= 2.10-0maemo18.1+0m6) but 2.10-0maemo20+0m7 is to be installed20:59
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teleshoesMohammadAG do you have g++ installed on pr1.2?21:13
xmlich02hi, i reflashed my n9 and tried to configure caldav with my gmail account. The configuration dialog report full storage (the device is "empty"). The /var/log/syslog contains a lot of debugging messages regarding to caldav plugin
MohammadAGteleshoes, I don't but it should be possible21:14
MohammadAGget libc6-dev version ...m721:14
teleshoesi couldnt find the deb21:17
teleshoesi dont think it exists21:23
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MohammadAGteleshoes, could be missing from the repos, but it definitely exists21:34
teleshoesits def missing from the repos21:34
MohammadAGno sources available21:34
MohammadAGcouldn't this be moved to court?21:34
ZogG_laptopping divan21:36
divanZogG_laptop: pong21:36
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teleshoesso does anybody know anything about this whole theres-no-gcc-for-pr1.2 thing?21:40
ZogG_laptopdivan_: ?21:41
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jonniteleshoes: there has never been gcc provided that you can run inside N9, not for PR1.0, PR1.1, PR1.1.1, PR1.2, or possible future pr releases. You are supposed to use gcc in sdk.22:12
teleshoesi tooootally compiled things all the time in pr1.122:12
jonnithen you needed have used external repoes.22:12
jonnithat is external repo which is not meant for N922:13
MohammadAGjonni, does it matter really?22:13
teleshoesit certainly does not22:13
MohammadAGrootfs is 4GBs, might as well do native compiling22:13
MohammadAGit did matter on the N900, cause rootfs was 256MBs and you had to use a chroot in /opt22:14
jonniwell ofcourse you can compile small project inside N9, but N9 doesnt have enough memory for example to link qtwebkit.22:14
teleshoesyea, and undertaking a real serious compilation on such a tiny cpu would be silly anyway22:14
MohammadAG1GB of RAM isn't enough?22:14
teleshoesbut to compile Term::ReadKey perl module22:14
jonniqtwebkit takes about 1.5GB ram to link.22:14
teleshoesso compiling a few little things on-device is pretty damn useful22:15
teleshoesespecially when developing22:16
teleshoesi got quite comfortable developing non-gui projects without the sdk22:17
teleshoesand now i cant22:17
teleshoeswithout package dependency fuckery22:17
jonniit depends sometime its usefull, usually I just use sshfs and compile in sdk to path which is directly mounted on device.22:18
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RzRjonni: do u use sshfs on harmattan ?22:19
RzRjonni: on device i mean ?22:20
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jonnirzr: mount device to my linux with sshfs,    ie. sshfs root@ /mnt/22:32
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patwo questions: is it possible to have a contact shown only within its group in the contact manager?22:33
paand are hierarchical groups possible?22:33
jonniafaik answer is no and no.22:34
rzrjonni: i do that too but i also tested on device too22:34
paok, thanks22:35
paso i guess basically i should code my own contact manager to do that..22:35
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pawell, i guess i should first support google groups :p22:38
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