IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2012-03-19

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gabriel9anyone play games?00:33
gabriel9i did not play me3 but i just sow this and this is great :D00:33
itsnotabigtruckgabriel9: hahaha00:37
gabriel9it is great vid00:38
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gabriel9people are really upset becouse of end of the game00:39
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Sazpaimondoes fingerterm have source code anywhere?04:02
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Sazpaimonrzr`, pung06:24
Sazpaimonin before he's not here for another 8 hours when im sleep06:24
itsnotabigtruckhey saz06:24
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itsnotabigtruckwell, it being 4:30Z...06:24
itsnotabigtruck < awesome song06:25
Sazpaimonits gonna be 1am and im going grocery shopping06:25
Sazpaimonwhats his excuse06:25
itsnotabigtruckpart of the soundtrack for this
Sazpaimoni actually was going to go 12 hours ago06:25
Sazpaimonbut i bought riven, the sequel to myst saturday06:26
Sazpaimonand i played the hell out of it all night06:26
Sazpaimonand fell asleep at 10am06:26
Sazpaimonwhatever, supermarkets are open 24 hours06:26
Sazpaimonmay as well use them06:26
Sazpaimonunless you live in the UK06:27
Sazpaimonwhere you legally have to be closed for a certain amount of timeon sunday06:27
Sazpaimonwhat a stupid law06:27
Sazpaimonthat law protects nobody06:28
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DavidTalmage_Hi.  I'm having trouble downloading apps from the Nokia Store.  All downloads fail.  Can anyone here help me, please?06:34
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: you're not the first, but i'm not sure how to solve it06:36
DavidTalmage_apt-get works.  It's just installing with the store app and the application manager that are broken.06:37
DavidTalmage_google isn't helping me. :-(06:37
DavidTalmage_I asked the Nokia Store for help.  It refused because my N9 isn't officially available in the USA.06:38
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: yeah, excellent nokia support as usual :/ they couldn't have helped anyway06:38
DavidTalmage_Thanks for replying, itsnotabigtruck.06:38
itsnotabigtruckit being a client bug or some such06:38
itsnotabigtruckbtw get ad-hac - it'll re-enable the wifi hotspot feature on your n906:39
DavidTalmage_I think so.  Probably some state hanging around in the file system.06:39
itsnotabigtruckso the application manager is broken too, not just ovi store?06:39
itsnotabigtruckthat sounds new06:39
itsnotabigtruckget in the terminal, download a deb, and do: pkgmgr install-file -f package.deb06:39
itsnotabigtrucksee what happens06:39
DavidTalmage_Yes.  Both are broken for me.  It's new.  I'm sure it worked a couple of weeks ago.06:39
itsnotabigtruckthat uses the backend to both of them06:40
itsnotabigtruckif pkgmgr works, the gui package manager ought to work06:40
itsnotabigtruckif all else fails you can always re-flash, though that's the easy way out :p06:40
* DavidTalmage_ poking at the shell for a minute06:41
DavidTalmage_OK.  I just tried 'pkgmgr install -p quickbeer'06:44
itsnotabigtruckthat'll only work if quickbeer happens to be in one of your apt repositories06:45
itsnotabigtruckit probably isn't06:45
DavidTalmage_Error: Failed to fetch exec:////usr/bin/osa --get 'quickbeer': Sub-process returned an error code06:45
itsnotabigtruckoh, hrm06:45
itsnotabigtrucktry this06:45
itsnotabigtruckpkgmgr install-file -f ad-hac_1.0_all.deb06:46
DavidTalmage_Is it in one of my repositories if 'pkgmgr list-available' prints it?06:46
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: if you have apps for meego added, it is06:47
itsnotabigtruckthen you can do pkgmgr install -p ad-hac06:47
itsnotabigtruckoh, if it = quickbeer, i don't think it's in a repo06:47
itsnotabigtruckit's in ovi06:47
itsnotabigtruckbut ovi is sort of integrated into apt now, which is what you just saw06:47
itsnotabigtruckapt called out to ovi store assistant (osa), which failed06:47
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* DavidTalmage_ installing wget, then fetching ad-hac ...06:50
DavidTalmage_ad-hac installed successfully06:52
DavidTalmage_So now I need to diagnose osa.06:52
itsnotabigtruckvia pkgmgr?06:52
itsnotabigtruckok, so it's not the package-manager stuff...but you said the package management gui wasn't working?06:52
itsnotabigtruckso if you, say, download a deb from the browser and tap it, it'll fail somehow06:52
itsnotabigtruckor it'll fail if you go to the uninstall screen?06:53
DavidTalmage_By "package management gui", I meant the app that tells me I have updates and lets me select the ones to install.06:54
DavidTalmage_Are we talking about the same app?06:54
DavidTalmage_Interesting: I just tried 'apt-get remove ad-hac'.06:55
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: yeah, that's what i mean06:55
DavidTalmage_apt-get said it can't get the lock /var/lib/dpkg/lock06:55
itsnotabigtruckthat's because pkgmgr doesn't clean up after itself06:55
itsnotabigtruckkillall pkgmgrd06:56
DavidTalmage_I can uninstall apps.06:56
itsnotabigtruckrm -f /var/lib/dpkg/lock06:56
itsnotabigtruck(as root)06:56
itsnotabigtruckand you're saying - that app, the one with the updates, is failing06:56
itsnotabigtruckand if so, how06:56
DavidTalmage_killall said no process killed.06:57
DavidTalmage_Then I re-ran apt-get and it removed ad-hac.06:57
itsnotabigtruckgo onto the next step06:57
itsnotabigtruckoh ok06:57
itsnotabigtruckbut - we need to narrow this down06:57
itsnotabigtruckwhat is and what isn't failing06:57
DavidTalmage_So, yes, the one with the updates is failing.  Also, the Nokia Store app is failing.06:57
itsnotabigtruckand if something is failing, precisely how06:58
itsnotabigtruckyou aren't giving much detail06:58
DavidTalmage_I was able to install the apps with upgrades using apt-get update && apt-get upgrade.06:58
DavidTalmage_What detail would help you to help me? :-)06:58
itsnotabigtruckyou know, like saying what actually doesn't work, for one06:59
itsnotabigtruckyou're saying that more things are broken than ovi store06:59
itsnotabigtruckbut that doesn't help06:59
DavidTalmage_I think they're the same problem.06:59
itsnotabigtruckso what's the problem then06:59
DavidTalmage_So let's start with the ovi store.06:59
itsnotabigtruckno, because ovi is more complicated07:00
itsnotabigtruckand it doesn't give good error messages07:00
itsnotabigtrucki want to know precisely what isn't working, and if it doesn't work, what happens when it doesn't work07:00
itsnotabigtruckyou know, the basic info anyone needs to troubleshoot anything07:00
DavidTalmage_Should we start with the package management gui?07:01
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DavidTalmage_I'll tell you what I observed.  However, there are no longer any updates.  I installed them with apt-get.07:03
DavidTalmage_The package management gui reported a number of updates.  Droplan, MPD Remote, Recorder, tag-writing-plugin (I think).07:04
DavidTalmage_There were some others.07:04
DavidTalmage_On the "Updates" screen, I pressed "Update All".07:04
DavidTalmage_The package management gui tried to download each package. For each one, it printed "Download failed" (or something with the same meaning).07:05
itsnotabigtruckwait, those are ovi store apps07:05
itsnotabigtruckthat ends up being the same problem you had before, with osa failing07:06
itsnotabigtrucki thought it was failing when you uninstall/install something07:06
itsnotabigtrucksounds like it's not07:06
itsnotabigtruckit only fails when attempting to retrieve an ovi package07:06
itsnotabigtruckso then...07:07
DavidTalmage_Ah. Sorry.  I should have been more explicit.07:07
itsnotabigtruckget back on the terminal, what happens if you do osa --get quickbeer07:07
DavidTalmage_Yes, the downloads from ovi store all fail.07:07
DavidTalmage_It prints a lot of stuff on the console.  Looks like non-text, as if I cat-ed an executable.  Also, there's some uuencoded or base64 encoded stuff07:10
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: yeah, that's expected07:11
itsnotabigtruckprobably should have told you to send stdout to /dev/null or something07:11
itsnotabigtruckok, wait about a minute07:11
itsnotabigtruckthen attempt the apt-get install quickbeer again07:11
itsnotabigtruckor pkgmgr install -p quickbeer07:11
itsnotabigtruckthe output is a debian package, which mostly consists of a .tar.gz, so it should be unintelligible07:12
DavidTalmage_quickbeer is being installed.07:12
DavidTalmage_There's a message, also: QNetworkReplyImpl::_q_startOperation was called more than once07:13
itsnotabigtruckthat can be ignored07:13
DavidTalmage_thought so.07:13
DavidTalmage_I'm going to try the ovi store again.07:15
DavidTalmage_The "My Stuff" page lists some of the packages I tried to download.  I'm selecting "Ionic".07:17
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DavidTalmage_First, it says "Waiting". Then "Downloading".  Then "There was a problem downloading this item.  Try again."07:18
itsnotabigtruckhm, maybe try it a few times07:20
itsnotabigtruckyou asked me about this before, didn't you?07:20
DavidTalmage_you mean before today?07:20
DavidTalmage_Not on IRC and not intentionally.07:21
DavidTalmage_I asked about it on Nokia Developer a few minutes ago.07:21
itsnotabigtruckanyway, the catch-all solution is to re-flash :p07:21
itsnotabigtruckalso forget the nokia forums...go with tmo07:21
itsnotabigtruckthough tmo has a rather excessive number of noobs, but the nokia forums aren't terribly better07:22
jonniand sometimes it helps that you run osa through strace, then you can see where osa stalls, atleast it helped me one one n9.07:22
DavidTalmage_I just checked Nokia Developer.  A guy from India referred me to
jonniin that device there was stalling processes, that I needed to kill in order to get it working07:23
itsnotabigtruckhmm, good idea ^07:23
DavidTalmage_I can install strace.07:23
itsnotabigtruckexcept...since pkgmgr worked a few mins ago, it looks like this is an intermediate problem07:24
itsnotabigtruckso it seems to be getting ugly07:24
DavidTalmage_We observed that 'osa --get quickbeer' did something useful.07:25
DavidTalmage_How do I run strace on the ovi store app?07:25
jonniin one another device, I was using nat wlan ap which was behind nat router (which will always fail for ovi store), was fixed when I moved connection only to be behind one nat, and not 2.07:26
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* itsnotabigtruck is le tired07:27
itsnotabigtruckjonni: that's...peculiar07:28
itsnotabigtruckovi store fails on double nats?07:29
DavidTalmage_AFAIK, nothing on my wifi network has changed.07:30
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: strace ovistoreclient, perhaps?07:31
itsnotabigtrucki haven't used strace, and it might be necessary to do something to filter down the noise07:31
DavidTalmage_I have another Nokia phone. It's an N8.  It's on my WIFI network.  It's installing Nokia Car Mode from the Nokia Store right now.07:33
itsnotabigtruck the new ovi store requirements now include rather strict privacy rules07:36
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DavidTalmage_N8 installation successful.07:37
itsnotabigtruckwell, i'm mostly out of ideas, besides wiping the phone...try the strace and see if you can see anything fishy going on07:37
DavidTalmage_One more detail.  Nokia Store says "Can't install.  Installation package not found."07:38
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jonniofcourse sometimes some packages are not avail to some regions, so you could try to install something else and see if it works.07:39
jonnior try to set http_proxy which is from different region.07:40
itsnotabigtruckbut those packages wouldn't be shown in the ovi store, i'd assume07:42
DavidTalmage_strace -o ovi -ff ovistoreclient07:42
DavidTalmage_Fooey.  Can't sign in.07:44
DavidTalmage_Pressing the "Sign in" button seems to do nothing.07:44
DavidTalmage_I tried downloading something without signing in.  The "Download" button seems to have no effect.07:44
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: you need to run it as user07:45
itsnotabigtruckdevel-su -c 'devel-su -s /bin/develsh user'07:45
itsnotabigtruckthen do the strace07:45
DavidTalmage_I am running it as user07:46
DavidTalmage_will try your way :-)07:46
itsnotabigtruckok, assumed you were doing it from the developer account07:46
DavidTalmage_seems to make no difference.07:50
DavidTalmage_no useful response from "Sign in" button.07:50
DavidTalmage_It blinks when I press it.  that's it.07:50
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DavidTalmage_There are 9 processes, apparently.  strace gave me 9 files to look at.07:54
itsnotabigtruckanyway,  /me needs teh sleep07:55
DavidTalmage_I'm going to look around for ovistoreclient temporary files.  Later today.07:55
DavidTalmage_Thanks a lot, itsnotabigtruck.07:55
DavidTalmage_Time for me to sleep, too.07:56
DavidTalmage_Thanks also, jonni.07:56
DavidTalmage_Good night, all.07:56
* DavidTalmage_ sleeps07:56
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chouchouneis there a way to have carddav support on Harmattan ?09:56
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jonnichouchoune: sure there is a way, you can get vCard data easily, you just have to code and compole carddav implementation yourself :) its on software you know :)10:13
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chouchounejonni: yes, I know I can do it myself as for everything ;)10:38
chouchouneI was just asking if there is an implementation already ;)10:38
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djszapiN9faenil, o/10:44
faenilo/ djszapiN910:44
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pacool, now N9 supports multiple gmail accounts :)12:09
pa(for contacts syncing)12:10
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chouchounehi again12:18
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chouchounedo you know if it's possible to subscribe to a new clalendar on an already existing caldav account ?12:20
chouchouneI created a new calendar server-side but cannot use it on the device (and entries moved on the server create syncing errors on the N9)12:21
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merlin1991how's the metapackage insinde scratchbox called?12:38
merlin1991(I'm not sure if my upgrade from beta3 to final went smooth)12:38
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xmlich02hey guys, is here someone to test my foursquare event feed application for meego?
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mtdanybody know how I can get tracker-store to vacuum / otherwise rebuild meta.db, without losing any of the data in it?14:48
* mtd wonders about restoring from backup...hmmm14:48
sandst1mtd: you can't. on Harmattan Tracker has no journal file, so even tracker-control --soft-reset will wipe out everything14:51
mtdsandst1: oh, that's a shame.14:53
mtdguess I will trying backing up, then restoring from backup14:53
* DavidTalmage_ wakes15:05
DavidTalmage_Hello, World!15:05
DavidTalmage_Can anyone here help me diagnose a problem with ovistoreclient?15:05
DavidTalmage_peteri, was that ? for me?15:07
petteriyou did not describe the problem15:08
* mtd restore 158MB of tracker backup15:08
* mtd /restores15:08
DavidTalmage_I can install ovi store apps using apt-get but not using the ovi store client, /usr/bin/ovistoreclient.15:08
DavidTalmage_ovistoreclient always says15:09
DavidTalmage_ "Can't install.  Installation package not found."15:09
DavidTalmage_For example, I tried downloading QuickBeer.  With the client, I get that message.  apt-get, on the other hand, happily installed it.15:10
DavidTalmage_I wonder if ovistoreclient keeps state on my phone and if that state is bad.15:11
petteristrange. I have not seen that kind of problem15:13
DavidTalmage_Nobody has. :-(15:14
petteriI have not used apt-get on my device, only ovi store and qtsdk15:14
petteriif I google your error message I get come hits, maybe try to look there15:14
pettericouple of15:14
DavidTalmage_Not  Not Nokia's European customer support forum.  Not Nokia's Australian customer support forum.15:15
DavidTalmage_Google gave me nothing helpful.  I went there first.15:15
DavidTalmage_Late last night, itsnotabigtruck helped me diagnose.15:16
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DavidTalmage_We determined it's something about ovistoreclient.15:17
DavidTalmage_I tried strace on ovistoreclient.  When I do that, I can't log into my account on the store.15:18
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tgalalIs there a documentation anywhere on how to add application specific fields for contacts?15:21
tgalallike for example contacts who have twitter accounts have button for twitter15:21
tgalalwhen clicked, it opens the twitter app15:21
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merlin1991tgalal: see
merlin1991I think with the proper "service" you'll get what you want15:38
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tgalalmerlin1991: and what defines a proper service with such functions?15:40
merlin1991tgalal I've only browsed over the docs there15:40
merlin1991as far as I understood it, you can have your own field for contacts if you implement your own "service"15:41
tgalalmerlin1991: cool. that would be a start. I've only created a provider. Thanks.15:43
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DavidTalmage_In debugging my ovistoreclient problem I think I just bricked my phone.16:16
DavidTalmage_TL;DR: apt-get autoremove is not your friend16:17
petteriat least reflashing the phone will probably make the ovi store work again :P16:19
phakoanyone speaking arabic here?16:19
DavidTalmage_Is there any way to get N9 firmware without the Windows app NaviFirm?16:28
jonnisearch google and you find a version which runs with wine.16:28
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DavidTalmage_That's it?  Wine or Windows?  OK. Thanks.16:29
jonnigoogle will also find direct http links, but yes, wine or windows are you current options.16:30
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DavidTalmage_jonni, thanks.16:35
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patgalal, you can probably have custom QContactDetail s16:49
pai guess that's what you want16:50
paby the way, what's the way to get an application into ovi store? from what i heared it cant put any file into /usr. does it also have to have a gui, or can it be a command line tool only?16:51
tgalalpa: but does that offer the possibility to open an app onclick?16:51
patgalal, what do you mean?16:51
pathat's a contact detail16:52
tgalalI mean like if you setup a twitter account16:52
pathat you can access via QContactManager16:52
tgalalnow your contacts have a twitter button in contacts application16:52
tgalalwhen you tap, the button, the twitter application opens16:52
tgalalit's not a normal contact field if you know what I mean16:52
paim not sure how this works to be honest. normally , for example, skype contacts have a different sync target16:53
pabut you can merge them16:53
pawith native contacts. you  should check what fields are added16:53
pa(what QContactAttributes)16:54
paif that's how it works16:54
pai didnt have too much time for investigating this. atm i just create standard phone contacts16:54
DavidTalmage_When I download the firmware using NaviFirm, do I need anything other than DFL61_HARMATTAN_30.2012.07-1_PR_LEGACY_009-OEM1-958_ARM.bin ?16:56
paby the way, nokia closed bugzilla for N916:57
DavidTalmage_NaviFirm wants to download some other, smaller files.16:57
pahope it's not the beginning of the end16:57
leinirpa: the beginning of the end was in february two years ago :P17:00
Richlv<pa> by the way, nokia closed bugzilla for N917:10
Richlvmm ?17:10
Richlv"Harmattan Bugzilla Closed for New Bugs"17:10
Richlvwhere's the hitman fund for eflop ? :>17:10
Richlv(it's funny, laugh)17:10
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pahe he18:43
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sahib_hmm... is QCA/QtCrypto not available in the default SB rootstrap?19:06
itsnotabigtruckoh wonderful19:07
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: if apt prompts you to remove mp-harmattan-009-pr19:07
itsnotabigtruckor displays something like 100 autoremovable packages19:08
itsnotabigtruckstop immediately! you're about to screw things up19:08
DavidTalmage_itsnotabigtruck: I learned that the hard way.19:08
itsnotabigtruckif you remove the "system metapackage" apt will think that the entire system is autoremovable, and then the next time you use pkgmgr it'll do that automatically19:08
DavidTalmage_Funny.  First, I removed ovistoreclient, thinking I could reinstall and fix him.  apt-get also removed ovistoreclient-guard and mp-harmattan-009-pr.19:09
DavidTalmage_I didn't think anything of it.19:10
itsnotabigtruckwell, you have an excuse to reflash which will probably solve the problem19:10
DavidTalmage_At the same time, apt-get suggested autoremoving lots of packages.19:10
itsnotabigtruckthe original one, that is19:10
DavidTalmage_yeah.  1.16Gb and a few hours of downloading time later ... :-)19:11
DavidTalmage_Can I have merit badge for this?19:11
itsnotabigtruckthere shouldn't be any need to do the emmc, just the rootfs19:12
itsnotabigtruckin fact you could use NSU to fix it probably, the official nokia supported solution19:12
itsnotabigtruckas opposed to the evil evil dangerous flasher >_>19:12
Corsacbtw if you have a download url for the pr1.2 image (last time I looked at what nokia updater downloaded but...)19:12
itsnotabigtruckCorsac: just use one of the various incarnations of navifirm, or that nokia firmwares website19:13
Corsacitsnotabigtruck: that nokia firmwares website?19:13
DavidTalmage_This is what I'm downloading.19:13
CorsacDavidTalmage_: thanks19:13
itsnotabigtruckCorsac: it's linked from my flashing guide19:13
Corsacurl to your flashing guide? :)19:13
DavidTalmage_It's the URL that NaviFirm Plus gave me.19:14
itsnotabigtruckalso remember that if you flash 009 firmware, you can't flash <009 firmware anymore until you go to pr1.319:14
Corsacwell, it's more about reflashing than updating19:14
itsnotabigtruckCorsac: right, i'm just saying that you should keep your variant as low as possible19:14
itsnotabigtruckif you have 001, don't flash 009, flash 00119:14
Corsacah ok19:14
DavidTalmage_Oh, so I should download the previous version and do an OTA update?19:15
itsnotabigtruckthough when pr1.3 comes out, you can then download the PR1.3 001 image and flash that over your PR1.2 00919:15
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: no, you can't do one said that19:15
DavidTalmage_I'm confused, then.19:15
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: check out my flashing guide19:15
itsnotabigtruckit includes a detailed description of how nokia's ridiculous downgrade blocking scheme works19:16
itsnotabigtruckyou're already on PR1.2 009, so you can't flash an image with a version lower than PR1.2, or a PR1.2 image with a variant lower than 00919:16
Corsacitsnotabigtruck: url for the flashing guide? :)19:17
itsnotabigtruckoh come on, just google it :p flashing guide n919:17
itsnotabigtruckought to work19:17
* DavidTalmage_ reading the flashing guide19:18
itsnotabigtruckwhen PR1.3 comes out, you should probably avoid SSUing19:18
itsnotabigtruckinstead wait for the 001 image to come out and flash to that19:18
itsnotabigtruckbecause when the version goes up, the variant is allowed to go back down19:18
teleshoeswhat is ssuing?19:19
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: ota upgrade19:19
itsnotabigtruckbut it's not actually called that, it's called ssu19:19
itsnotabigtruck(seamless software upgrade, or something like that)19:19
teleshoesplausibly bureaucratic19:19
teleshoesquestion! is zImage-{md5 e95a0c5fc8a500008707a2f74d7642c6} the openmode!est kernel available atm?19:20
itsnotabigtruckno idea19:20
itsnotabigtruckjust incept it and aegisctl -skx it :p19:20
teleshoeswaiting to byte that bullet19:21
DavidTalmage_itsnotabigtruck: I chose 009 because NaviFirm told me it corresponds to the product code of my phone.19:21
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: right, you have to choose 009 because your phone's already on 00919:21
itsnotabigtruckso you need to follow the same or higher rule19:21
itsnotabigtruck009 is the highest generic code19:21
itsnotabigtruckwhereas corsac probably isn't on 009, so s/he shouldn't install 00919:21
Corsacwell, my N9 came back from repair with PR1.2 but it's into warranty now, so …19:22
DavidTalmage_Apparently, my phone is Norewegian.  I got it in Munich at QtDevDays.  All of the phones they gave out that week were from Norway.19:22
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leinirDavidTalmage_: *nods* Yup - Norwegian quick-start guide and everything ;)19:23
itsnotabigtrucki'm feeling a bit less bitter about not receiving a conference giveaway phone when i noticed the registration fees for said conferences are significantly higher than the msrp of the phone :p19:23
paDavidTalmage_, cool :)19:23
padid you get it for free?19:23
CissWiti have the 232 variant, i'm considering flashing to 001 PR1.2, but can't find references about incompatibilities.19:23
CissWitif there's some19:24
itsnotabigtruckCissWit: there are none, just do it19:24
DavidTalmage_Yes, I did.  I have another one from QtDevDays in San Francisco.  Also a freebie.  I haven't used it yet.19:24
itsnotabigtruck99% of the problems experienced have been due to people changing their product codes19:24
itsnotabigtruckdon't do that19:24
pai should start going to such events :)19:25
itsnotabigtruckotherwise there's basically zero risk assuming you have your data backed up19:25
DavidTalmage_Thanks.  Not planning to change the product code.19:25
itsnotabigtruckpa: but you have to pay $800 or so to go last i checked19:25
itsnotabigtrucknormally your employer would pay that19:25
itsnotabigtruckand then of course there's airfare19:25
CissWititsnotabigtruck: i've been reading here that there's problem on restoring backup from an other variant, but can't remember who told me that.19:25
itsnotabigtruckthat's not an option if you aren't in the qt business though19:25
pai see19:26
itsnotabigtruckit's certainly not a way to get a "free phone"19:26
itsnotabigtruckyour ticket paid for the phone19:26
pawell, i dont do much with qt, nothing heavy at least19:26
paso no, probably it wouldnt work out19:26
itsnotabigtruckwhereas with the lumia giveaway from nokia, that really was a free phone19:26
itsnotabigtruckassuming you signed up for launchpad somewhere between november 2010 and october 2011 or so19:27
pai see19:27
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pai staid out of the smartphone world until  3 weeks ago :)19:27
DavidTalmage_He's right.  I paid for all of the travel myself for both conferences.19:27
paby the way, do you know whether  prerequisites to get an app accepted in ovi store are up somewhere ?19:27
luke-jrDavidTalmage_: you have a spare N950?19:28
luke-jrDavidTalmage_: is it for sale? <.<19:28
itsnotabigtrucki was following meego a little bit but not close enough to know about any of this nokia business until after all the promotions and giveaways :(19:28
itsnotabigtrucki didn't know the N9 wasn't going to be running meego proper, and all info about harmattan is pretty deeply buried away on the meego website19:29
itsnotabigtruckintel was going to be pushing its intel-inside meego phone that never happened19:30
paand they are silly supporting android19:30
pai saw this ICS on the galaxy S2 (still one of the most powerful soc around)19:30
pait lags like hell19:30
itsnotabigtruckyeah...the N9 would be amazing with the state of the art hardware inside, but atm it seems like they're mostly just throwing CPU power at android because it's too damn slow without it19:31
pai mean with an omap4 or 5 it would be a perfect server, too :)19:32
DavidTalmage_luke-jr: Not for sale, no.  Nokia gave it to me for development use.  I feel that I should honor that.19:33
luke-jrDavidTalmage_: I'd use it for development.19:33
itsnotabigtruckluke-jr: most n950s are tied up on contracts19:33
itsnotabigtruckand are theoretically owned by nokia, and can be clawed back19:33
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DavidTalmage_luke-jr: really, I have a use for it.  I have a mesh networking experiment coming up in the next quarter.19:35
DavidTalmage_luke-jr: hope you find one, though.19:36
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luke-jrDavidTalmage_: i c19:36
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: that's the problem, basically everyone who wasn't here in may or whenever is sol19:36
DavidTalmage_itsnotabigtruck: I read your "Comprehensive Firmware Flashing Guide for N9".  It's good.  Now waiting for the download.19:37
itsnotabigtruckthey could do another CDP-type thing and empty out their inventory, but they won't19:37
itsnotabigtrucki think they already ruled that out19:37
pathat sucks19:37
DavidTalmage_Amazon carries them for about $460.19:38
pathey are probably afraid people would develop for N9 :)19:38
DavidTalmage_I have to step away for a while.19:38
DavidTalmage_Thanks for your help!19:39
* DavidTalmage_ coffee break19:39
itsnotabigtruckDavidTalmage_: N950s? i don't think so19:39
DavidTalmage_Oh, no.  N9s.19:39
DavidTalmage_Oh.  I'm rereading luke-jr's question.19:39
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DavidTalmage_luke-jr: I have two N9s, not two N950s.19:39
* luke-jr has no interest in N9 <.<19:40
paDavidTalmage_, do you sell one n9? :)19:40
* DavidTalmage_ Really, must have coffee. Back in an hour.19:40
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ZogG_N9X-Fade, ping20:06
ZogG_N9everytime no one says anything here more than for minute i feel like i'm timeouted20:08
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, i know u are 24/7 here20:11
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faenilyo people sup here? :D20:16
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itsnotabigtrucklol @ zog20:23
itsnotabigtruckhey faenil20:23
faenilheya :D20:23
itsnotabigtruck < check it out20:24
faenilitsnotabigtruck, what's that?20:36
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* DavidTalmage_ Energized after my coffee break20:43
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bluesleeDocScrutinizer: ping20:57
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bluesleeDocScrutinizer: any issues so far with the open kernel for n9/pr1.2?21:02
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tgalaldoes any body have an answer to this post by aflegg???
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itsnotabigtrucktgalal: unrelated, but is there some reason you aren't using telepathy for your whatsapp app?21:43
itsnotabigtrucki saw a screenshot of it and it looked like you were trying to mimick the native interface, rather than actually using the native interface yourself21:44
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: because there are some features that aren't provided by the native interface, live delivery statuses, and last seen on21:44
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: but the benefits of integration vastly outweigh that21:45
tgalalwell I'm trying to integrate other pieces as mush as I could, at least for now.21:46
itsnotabigtruckit saves you time trying to make a carbon copy of what nokia already did, and it would make it work just like sms, google talk, ebuddy xms, etc.21:46
itsnotabigtruckand going with telepathy basically means rewriting so it would be preferable to go down that path before the whole thing is finished and it's too late21:47
itsnotabigtrucki mean, i don't care that much, i don't use whatsapp myself21:47
itsnotabigtruckall that's really required is a telepathy CM and an accounts-ui plugin (for adding the account)21:49
itsnotabigtrucki don't know how whatsapp authenticates, you might have to do some stuff with signon too21:50
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: I understand your point, using the native APIs would save a lot of headache, but I don't wan't to sacrifice those features, specially the delivery status. If you know any whatsapp users you'd know this is important to them. Ask any BBM users why they use bbm, first things they mention would include delivery reports.21:50
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itsnotabigtrucktgalal: are you sure delivery reporting can't be done21:51
itsnotabigtruckbecause that's already supported by the sms feature21:51
itsnotabigtruckwhich is built on telepathy21:51
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itsnotabigtruckand, i don't know any bbm users, or whatsapp users either...neither of them are popular at all in north america21:51
itsnotabigtruckblackberries are for execs and salesmen who email all the time21:52
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tgalalitsnotabigtruck: yeah that's not the same everywhere. Everyone here uses whatsapp or a blackberry with bbm21:52
tgalaladding to that, documentation is crap21:53
sahib_did you have to reverse engineer the whatsapp protocol, or is that out in the wild someplace?21:54
itsnotabigtrucktelepathy clearly has documented delivery reporting apis21:55
itsnotabigtruckthe nokia stuff isn't very well documented, like accounts-ui21:55
itsnotabigtruckbut you were going to implement one of those in either case21:55
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: yeah and telepathy supports "user is typing" too I guess, but the UI doesn't21:55
ZogG_N9tgalal, doesnt it work as in xmpp?21:56
tgalalsahib_: I reversed it21:56
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tgalalZogG_N9: yeah it's pretty much the same, except with the login21:57
ZogG_N9so delivery should be the same, no?21:57
tgalalmessages are encoded before being sent, decoded when received21:57
tgalalZogG_N9: does the UI show delivery status for any of the existent protocols ?21:58
tgalalwell except SMS21:58
itsnotabigtruckthe point is, the users will be better off if you actually integrate into the system21:58
itsnotabigtruckit would make it infinitely more useful because then it'll work just like sms21:58
itsnotabigtruckwhich, mind you, is the entire point of this thing21:58
ZogG_N9lemme check21:58
itsnotabigtruckand i'm more than a little bit tired of low quality apps implemented without the proper system apis, the proper fonts, the proper design conventions, the proper package control fields, the proper anything21:59
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: I understand your point. And actually what I'm trying to do (currently) is to have everything that could be native, native.22:00
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tgalaland if I'm not going for a telepathy plugin22:00
ZogG_N9tgalal, no, but you can talk to icoderus22:00
tgalalthat would be everything but chat22:00
tgalalconversations I mean22:00
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tgalalin fact I did create the accounts plugin already22:00
ZogG_N9tgalal, awesome22:01
tgalalwhole registration process is now via accounts plugin22:01
ZogG_N9tgalal, wait but why dont you use delievery from xmpp22:01
ZogG_N9i know it has it22:01
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: but the telepathy integration is the only integration that matters much22:02
itsnotabigtruckif you want it to work natively, and you're doing a messaging app, then everything points toward telepathy22:02
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tgalalitsnotabigtruck: hmm we do have a python binding for telepathy right?22:03
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itsnotabigtrucktgalal: yeah...i'm not sure if it's shipped with the nokia repos but it exists22:03
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ZogG_N9tgalal, have tweeter?22:03
itsnotabigtruckthere's also qt and glib-based c/c++ apis22:03
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tgalalZogG_N9: twitter account?22:04
ZogG_N9tgalal, contact him thru tweeter or TMO22:04
ZogG_N9i bet him can help with it22:04
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: has coderus done a telepathy cm before22:04
tgalalZogG_N9: I guess I will22:04
itsnotabigtruckextraplugins ships an already-made cm (telepathy-haze)22:05
ZogG_N9he made jabber support22:05
ZogG_N9even chat22:05
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: see above22:05
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, what exactly?22:05
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: extraplugins is a bunch of account plugins on top of telepathy-haze22:05
itsnotabigtruckwhich is an already existing connection manager (cm) that bridges telepathy and libpurple (pidgin)22:06
itsnotabigtrucki.e. he didn't write anything to do with telepathy22:06
ZogG_N9thats what he used22:06
itsnotabigtruckright, he used something, he didn't write a connection manager22:06
itsnotabigtrucktgalal needs to write a cm22:06
itsnotabigtrucksazpaimon has been working on a telepathy-based steam chat integration, but it's using a modified telepathy-haze plus an existing pidgin/purple plugin22:06
itsnotabigtruckso that's a no go too22:07
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itsnotabigtruckmaybe look at the code for some existing telepathy cms, like telepathy-gabble, telepathy-butterfly, telepathy-haze, etc.22:07
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: ok here is something22:07
itsnotabigtruckin fact you could probably fork one of those and gut it out22:07
ZogG_N9might be good idea22:08
tgalalyeah that's what I'm thinking of22:08
itsnotabigtruckalso check out the open source version of telepathy-ring22:08
itsnotabigtrucktelepathy-ring is the phone/sms telepathy integration22:08
itsnotabigtruckhowever the open source one isn't the same as the one on the n9, and it isn't complete either22:08
itsnotabigtruckbut it might be something to look at22:08
tgalalbut telepathy-gabble is xmpp, right?22:09
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: yeah22:09
itsnotabigtruckit's not the xmpp that extraplugins uses, it's the xmpp that the google talk plugin uses22:09
itsnotabigtrucktelepathy-butterfly is msn and i think it's written using telepathy-python22:10
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: so it would be possible to modify it and then it would happily get integrated nice and easy, right?22:10
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: something like that, i assume the modifications would be pretty extensive but it's something to start with22:10
ZogG_N9maybe this is relevant?22:10
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: er, why22:11
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: if both are xmpp, why would it be extensive?22:11
ZogG_N9it's related to delivery info22:11
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: i thought that whatsapp was some sort of proprietary modified xmpp22:11
itsnotabigtruckalso if it doesn't support multimedia conversations you need to take all that out22:11
ZogG_N9error on dilevery but there is time of delivery22:11
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, it is modified xmpp afaik22:12
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: it's a change to a gui that the n9 doesn't use22:12
ZogG_N9we need to find out where it takes info from22:13
ZogG_N9and than use it, as it uses telepathy22:13
tgalalsince we're at it, I was wondering how much illegal would this be eventually?22:14
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: not very22:14
ZogG_N9i think it might be22:15
tgalalhow so?22:15
itsnotabigtruckif you aren't careful you might break the EULA for whatsapp or something, which would be breach of contract22:15
itsnotabigtruckwhich isn't a crime but in theory you could get sued or something22:15
itsnotabigtruckit might be advisable to do a "clean room reverse engineering" arrangement22:15
ZogG_N9what is xmpp license btw?22:15
itsnotabigtruckwhere person A tears apart whatsapp, and person B uses documentation from person A to redo it22:15
itsnotabigtruckxmpp is an open standard22:16
itsnotabigtruckno license required22:16
ZogG_N9whatsapp is paied app u know22:16
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: you have to pay to create an account22:16
itsnotabigtruckpresumably this program will only work with an already-created paid account22:16
ZogG_N9and you use their servers and they send u sms22:16
ZogG_N9i have old acc22:17
ZogG_N9didnt pay for it coz it was free than22:17
itsnotabigtruckanyway, the above is legal advice, i'm not a lawyer22:17
itsnotabigtruckbut ZogG_N9: don't make claims that "oh yeah it's illegal" if you have no idea whatsoever about how it would be illegal22:17
itsnotabigtruck"illegal" itself is a fuzzy concept22:17
itsnotabigtruckerm, the above is NOT LEGAL ADVICE22:18
itsnotabigtruckbad typo there22:18
ZogG_N9with todays sues =)22:18
tgalalZogG_N9: whatsapp is free for the first year and then you have to pay22:18
itsnotabigtrucki still don't understand why there's all this demand for whatsapp...there is literally nothing it offers over the alternatives22:19
jaywinkhey ... harmattan qml question if anyone knows .. any ideas how to launch an application settings page from QML? I've already got the settings stuff done via gconf but would like to add an icon to my app toolbar22:19
ZogG_N9tgalal, wasnt like that, i got n9 just when they started to make this «pay after one year»22:19
itsnotabigtruckbesides a built-in userbase, but you can always strongarm your contacts into switching :p22:19
itsnotabigtruckit's a glorified im service22:20
itsnotabigtruckand there's no other popular im service that charges fees22:20
itsnotabigtruckit's ludicrous22:20
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, tell it all my friends22:20
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: tell them to use google talk, or ebuddy xms, or /anything/22:20
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: same here22:20
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, i can tell them but would they?22:20
ZogG_N9just it was one of first22:21
ZogG_N9like windiws thing =)22:21
tgalalZogG_N9: true!22:21
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: well, it's not like it's unusual to use multiple im programs22:22
itsnotabigtrucknor difficult to install another one22:23
itsnotabigtrucksomebody got those same contacts signed up for whatsapp22:23
ZogG_N9it is if all your friends have it and u r not geek22:23
itsnotabigtruckwhen they were using something else before22:23
itsnotabigtruckjaywink: exec duicontrolpanel maybe?22:24
ZogG_N9that tell me why most laptops have preinstalled windows22:24
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9: changing OSes is difficult22:24
itsnotabigtruckinstalling a program is not22:24
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, it was free for a long time22:24
itsnotabigtruckthose have absolutely nothing to do with each other22:24
ZogG_N9itsnotabigtruck, same idea22:24
ZogG_N9for some apple fa..ns it is difficult22:25
itsnotabigtruckthen next time you see them put xms on their phone or something22:25
* itsnotabigtruck shrugs22:25
ZogG_N9btw xms is hardly working =(22:25
itsnotabigtruckyeah, apparently the n9 ver relies on nokia's push messaging system which isn't working that great22:26
ZogG_N9uninstall nokia acc, reboot, readd it - worked for me22:27
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: so, what about sending images/ vidoes/voice notes in the native UI?22:29
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: well, it has to be supported somehow because mms is integrated too22:30
itsnotabigtruckthat might be going into more uncharted territory so you might end up needing to reverse engineer more than just whatsapp, but it's possible22:30
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: I never saw it, even with fremantle22:31
itsnotabigtrucktgalal: i haven't tried sending an mms yet, but when i recieve an mms, it comes up as a thumbnail inside the messaging ui22:31
itsnotabigtruckyou tap it and it opens the photo22:32
tgalalI gotta look into that too22:33
itsnotabigtruckas for sending the stuff, might be necessary to have a sharing framework plugin, that's probably what you were looking into when you joined here22:34
itsnotabigtruckas it stands if i try to send a photo i get: Twitter, Multimedia message, Bluetooth, NFC22:34
itsnotabigtruckso i guess you'd add one more to the list22:34
tgalalitsnotabigtruck: would possibly work, if it could use the same open connection22:35
tgalalbut when I came here I wasn't looking for sharing framework plugin22:35
itsnotabigtruckwell, i assume you'd have your plugin set up to send something through your telepathy backend22:35
itsnotabigtruckoh, i assumed you were since your link was to a thread about it22:35
tgalalI was looking into how to have an app integrated with contacts, like twitter where you have a twitter button for your contacts22:36
tgalaltapping the button opens twitter app22:36
tgalalah for that thread I was referring the post by aflegg22:36
tgalalhe's trying to acheive something similar too.22:36
itsnotabigtruckoh, an accounts plugin22:37
itsnotabigtruckyou probably need both22:37
itsnotabigtruckso it'll be like22:37
itsnotabigtruckmeego sharing framework -> telepathy <- accounts-ui plugin22:37
tgalalI imagine that would be possible22:38
tgalalis accounts plugin different from accounts-ui plugin?22:38
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DocScrutinizerblueslee: no issues heard of, with om-kernel1.222:45
jaywinkitsnotabigtruck, oh hmmm ... maybe I'll just make my own page for settings with QML and just store them in GConf - will probably work out faster :P thanks anyway22:49
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itsnotabigtrucktgalal: nah, same thing22:58
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