IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2012-03-13

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itsnotabigtrucktehdely: lol why00:04
tehdelyi just hate QR codes, that's all00:09
tehdelythey're kitschy and noone uses them00:09
tehdelyi want them to die00:09
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: they're kitschy when used for marketing and stuff00:11
itsnotabigtruckit seems like a natural way though to convey a url from the screen to the phone00:11
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pawky|2any one seen any link to a command line vpnc client that will run under the N9? Jonni mentioned he had seen it, but didn't have any link..01:01
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Piruoh well, enough time has passed and the author doesn't appear to be interested01:23
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Sazpaimon Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member01:24
Piruoh yes, uninstalling it does NOT remove the password01:24
Sazpaimonwhat the hell does that even mean01:24
Piruyou need to manually rm the sqlite database after uninstall or your cleartext passwd is available until you wipe the phone01:25
mgedminwheee heheh01:25
mgedminan ovi store review seems to be in order01:25
PiruI notified the author and nokia months ago.01:26
Pirulets check the date01:26
Piruauthor oct 3001:26
Piruand nokia some time after. long long time ago anyway01:27
Piruso first: if you're in open wireless AP anyone can sniff your dropbox password off the air01:28
Piruit's sent in cleartext over http01:28
Pirusecond: your dropbox password is saved, again in clear text, in sqlite database on your phone. the database remains on the device even after you uninstall the application01:29
mgedminsoftware is hopeless01:30
itsnotabigtruckwhat kernel modules do you guys need/want/etc.01:32
itsnotabigtrucki'm looking through the kconfig looking for things that would be useful to build01:33
Sazpaimonim content with what we ha ve01:33
Sazpaimonthat is until we can do wifi injection01:33
itsnotabigtruckwell, i'm thinking at least ipsec and iptables stuff01:34
itsnotabigtrucknokia provides ipsec modules but it seems not enough to actually use ipsec01:34
Sazpaimoniptables would be nice I gues01:34
Sazpaimoni had no real use for it on the N900 beyond getting adhocmode01:34
Sazpaimonif there's a variant of linux-wireless that allows for AP mode, that'd be cool01:35
Sazpaimoni know our chipset supports it01:35
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: i thought it was already supported01:36
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you try putting it in master mode with iwconfig01:37
Sazpaimoni dont have iw installed01:38
tehdelyoh man01:39
tehdelyinfrastructure mode would just01:39
tehdelyseal the fuckin deal01:39
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: apt-get install wireless-tools01:47
Sazpaimonoh  right01:48
Sazpaimoni get it confused with iw a lot01:48
SazpaimonRM696-07-1_PR_001:~# iwconfig wlan0 mode master01:50
SazpaimonError for wireless request "Set Mode" (8B06) :01:50
Sazpaimon    SET failed on device wlan0 ; Invalid argument.01:50
Sazpaimonhad a feeling01:51
tehdelyi was hoping that I'd finally be able to do that on N901:51
tehdelyI know Symbian has that shackle01:51
tehdelyreally, who is using WEP in this day and age01:51
tehdelypeople whose mobiles can't run in infrastructure mode but still want to share their 3/4G connection, that's who!01:51
SazpaimonI installed iw from debian, let me check01:51
Sazpaimon        Supported interface modes:01:52
Sazpaimon                 * IBSS01:52
Sazpaimon                 * managed01:52
Sazpaimon                 * monitor01:52
Sazpaimonhostapd wont work with it either01:52
tehdelywhat is the chipset in question01:52
tehdelyis it possible AP mode would work with a different driver01:53
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Sazpaimoni can never remember01:53
Sazpaimonwl1271 I bnelieve01:58
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tehdelyit may support something called 'SoftAP'02:00
tehdelybut whomever asked that question can't seem to get a clear answer from TI02:00
tehdelyso i doubt we will either02:00
tehdelysee last two posts02:01
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Piruwaiiit, I've missed an update. indeed I think the first problem has been since fixed.02:03
Piruusing oauth now like it should02:03
Piruwonder about the sqlite though02:04
Sazpaimontehdely, there's a patch for wl1271 to enable AP mode02:04
Sazpaimonin linux-wireless02:04
Sazpaimonnot sure if we have that version or not02:04
tehdelyi assume that patch is for the kernel module?02:04
tehdelyor is it just for the userspace tools02:04
Sazpaimonkernel module02:05
Piruit should be fixed considering oauth doesn't require storing of the pwd.. but lets confirm02:06
AndrewX192I get an error when downloading an app I purchased in the Nokia Store.02:06
Sazpaimontehdely, but that wiki is right, getting AP mopde to work would require hostapd02:07
tehdelywell that's cool, i just care that the hardware supports it02:07
tehdelythat means that the N9 will eventually ;)02:07
tehdelyat least in theory02:07
tehdelyGod, I need to buy a few more N9s to stockpile02:07
tehdelya phone this good won't come along for a while and mine will eventually break lol02:07
Sazpaimonwell if itsnotabigtruck wants to look at the bleeding edge linux-wireless he's free to do so02:08
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Sazpaimoni believe we would need the NL80211/mac8021102:08
Sazpaimonbut i cant remember02:08
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Sazpaimonif we had kernel 2.6.39, this support would alrady be here02:10
Sazpaimonfor now, patches from;a=summary would need to be applied02:10
tehdelyi'm assuming i could install a custom kernel if i wanted to, either forcing origin in open mode or using inception02:10
tehdelyis this correct/02:10
befordAndrewX192, I think you have up to 5 downloads attempt or it will try to charge again02:11
AndrewX192Yep, it says I have to pay again02:11
itsnotabigtruckso...what, precisely, is necessary for infra mode wifi02:11
befordAndrewX192, that's what some claim .. what did you buy? try to contact the developer and nokia02:11
AndrewX192dpkg database was locked02:11
itsnotabigtrucklet me check if wl12xx is compiled as a module02:11
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, it is02:11
Sazpaimonbut we dont want that02:11
Sazpaimonwe want mac80211 instead02:11
itsnotabigtruckthis is a bit of a problem, it looks like strongswan requires IP policy routing, which seems to have to be compiled into the kernel itself02:12
AndrewX192beford: $.99 program02:12
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: i think it already has mac80211?02:12
Sazpaimonit doesn;t02:12
SazpaimonRM696-07-1_PR_001:~# lsmod |grep 8021102:12
Sazpaimonif we have wl12xx, then we dont have mac8021102:12
befordAndrewX192, oh yea, I meant what app, its not relevant though..02:12
Sazpaimonwl12xx isnt part of compat-wireless iirc02:12
AndrewX192beford: Communi02:13
AndrewX192Error again02:13
itsnotabigtruckit doesn't show in lsmod because it's compiled in02:13
Sazpaimonthen these wl12xx may be overriding it02:13
Sazpaimonor maybe im not remembering right02:13
itsnotabigtruckit looks like wl12xx doesn't depend on mac8021102:14
itsnotabigtruckso i guess they're just parallel02:14
javispedroDocScrutinizer: there?02:14
itsnotabigtruckis there a newer wl12xx driver we can load?02:14
Piruindeed it looks like it has been fixed. so some of my frustration was misguided. good :)02:14
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, yes, that git02:15
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itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: so we patch that into nokia's kernel tree02:17
Sazpaimonalso, has some cevats for older kernels listed02:17
Sazpaimonspecificallty for  2.6.3202:17
itsnotabigtrucki hope those patches are for modules02:18
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: already asleep02:18
javispedroDocScrutinizer: oh well, cya tomorrow then.02:19
itsnotabigtruckbtw TWL4030_USB is already selected02:21
itsnotabigtruckthat's a usb host mode driver for omap and twl4030 (not sure what the latter is or if we have it)02:21
itsnotabigtruckit looks like it's a companion chip to omap3 and we probably have it02:22
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javispedrotwl4030 is a usb TRANSCEIVER02:22
javispedroamong many other things02:22
DocScrutinizerre hostmode: DO NOT!!! try to activate twl4030 USB chargepump while bq is still in charging mode (I.E. bme still active) - it might kill your hardware02:23
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DocScrutinizerI guess twl4030 chargepump doesn't work just like in N900, but I'm not entirely sure about it02:24
itsnotabigtruckalso, it looks like the "inventra dual role controller" is configured in slave mode only02:24
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itsnotabigtruckand that's not a module02:27
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javispedroinventra what?02:27
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itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: it's apparently the silicon IP that ti licensed for omap02:29
javispedromusb you mean02:30
itsnotabigtrucksounds like i better stay away from USB stuff, heh02:32
itsnotabigtruckin any case, it seems everything usb is compiled in02:32
itsnotabigtruckwhich would interfere with patching that stuff without replacing the entire kernel02:32
javispedrowhile there are certainly methods to boot a kernel in closed mode, I still don't get why continue on it...02:33
javispedroMohammadAG: there?02:35
itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: i was thinking about that, but for now i'm just looking into building a bunch of kernel modules and shipping them for inception02:37
MohammadAGjavispedro, ye?02:38
itsnotabigtruckand it looks like the that mostly ends up being a bunch of ipsec / iptables stuff02:38
itsnotabigtruckany ideas for more stuff that can be built as modules, that's useful?02:38
javispedroMohammadAG: can you send me that led-event-notifier package that is more verbose, or was that the one that you published yesterday?02:39
javispedroyou mentioned that it should print something, and I cannot even find the string on the binary02:39
javispedro(maybe I'm being an idiot though)02:39
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MohammadAGjavispedro, first version ever had the strings02:40
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itsnotabigtruckhmm, how about SND_SEQUENCER02:44
itsnotabigtruck(alsa midi sequencing support)02:44
javispedrotimidity works without it (as it is userspace plugin to alsalib), and to plug a synthesizer you will need usbhost02:45
javispedro*a usb synthesizer02:45
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itsnotabigtruckjavispedro: hm, ok. how about CUSE (FUSE for character devices)02:47
javispedromaybe useful for someone, who knows.02:47
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AndrewX192 <- wow, hadn't seen this in a while04:12
befordsome people keeps it at 1ghz now04:13
AndrewX192805Mhz for me04:13
AndrewX192I'm really happy with the N9's idle power use04:14
AndrewX192Active power use? Not so much04:14
itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: what's that from?04:16
AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: N900 announcement?04:16
itsnotabigtruckso far, not that much reaction to aegisctl :(04:17
itsnotabigtrucki guess it's a pretty niche tool, and my description is pretty technical04:17
itsnotabigtruckbut it's not that niche - it's of interest to anyone who wants a proper root shell on harmattan04:17
AndrewX192I'm still not sure if I want to install inception04:17
itsnotabigtruckyou know you want it04:17
AndrewX192I'd like to have what it offers04:17
AndrewX192But I don't want to install it04:17
AndrewX192For whatever reason, Nokia store doesn't work on a number of applications now04:18
AndrewX192I can't install applications04:18
itsnotabigtruckand the way to have what it offers is to install it :p04:18
AndrewX192But I can install .deb files via terminal04:18
itsnotabigtruckthat's peculiar04:18
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you install a .deb using: pkgmgr install-file -f foo.deb04:18
itsnotabigtruckthat uses the package-manager subsystem that installing things from the gui uses04:19
itsnotabigtruckalso, what happens if you install a .deb via the gui, but not from ovi store04:19
itsnotabigtrucki.e. by downloading a deb in the browser or locating one in the file manager, and launching it04:19
itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192 ^04:21
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AndrewX192 can't download it04:28
itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: hmm04:29
itsnotabigtruckwell, let's set that aside for now and do the pkgmgr test04:29
AndrewX192Let me find a free app that won't install04:29
itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: hold on04:29
itsnotabigtruckfind a .deb package that's marked as user-installable04:30
itsnotabigtruckNOT OVI04:30
itsnotabigtruckwell, actually04:30
itsnotabigtruckfree ovi apps work04:30
AndrewX192I'm going to make sure that won't install first04:30
itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: forget ovi for now04:30
itsnotabigtruckwhat i want to troubleshoot first is whether it's pkgmgr acting up04:30
itsnotabigtruckthough actually, if we test with something that fails with ovistoreclient that proves something04:31
itsnotabigtruckok, so test that04:31
AndrewX192Okay, it failed from OVI04:31
AndrewX192So, download the .deb?04:31
itsnotabigtruck i reuploaded it, or you can just sign into the ovi website then add /download after the number04:32
AndrewX192I downloaded it04:32
itsnotabigtruckalso this is extremely strange...someone just sent me a vague threat via my donation link, with some BS whois info in it04:32
* itsnotabigtruck sighs04:32
itsnotabigtruckanyway, ok, so get onto SSH04:33
itsnotabigtruckcd to the directory with the deb in it04:33
AndrewX192 /mer /home/developer/internetradioplayer_1_356823.0.7_armel.deb?q=sYcXf29Ng0HrmCEj-ARFiHk6udz2J6Qq&c=ovi_store&eid=7d61cf9f-a7af-4b5b-821c-4aaa096a267b&productid=740795&sid=OviStore&dlsrc=STORE_COM installed successfully!04:33
itsnotabigtruckand do pkgmgr install-file -f thefile.deb04:33
itsnotabigtruckerm, what did you do to install it04:33
AndrewX192pkgmgr install-file -f internetradioplayer_1_356823.0.7_armel.04:33
itsnotabigtruckok, hmm, where did that /mer part come from04:34
itsnotabigtruckanyway, so it's not package-manager acting up04:34
AndrewX192Don't know about the /mer04:34
AndrewX192The app starts up fine too04:34
itsnotabigtruckthat was in what you pasted04:34
AndrewX192I know04:34
AndrewX192I guess I'll remove it and try ovi now04:35
itsnotabigtruckovi will probably still be broken then04:35
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AndrewX192Hm, so in that package list, there was an ! next to the communi package04:37
itsnotabigtruckwhich package list?04:37
AndrewX192So I told it to try again and it said that there was an issue downloading04:37
itsnotabigtruckoh, that04:37
AndrewX192Settings -> Manage Applications04:37
itsnotabigtruckbe careful, you might use up your 5 downloads04:37
itsnotabigtruckthen you'll have to pirate04:37
AndrewX192I probably already have04:38
itsnotabigtrucksee PM04:39
AndrewX192Ovi can't install Internet Radio Player04:39
AndrewX192After I removed it..04:39
itsnotabigtrucki want to say just reflash, but that's a "cheap" way out04:46
AndrewX192It only happens on select applications04:47
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AndrewX192Oh, I see the red ! in my applications list prompts me to re-download04:49
AndrewX192(That's way better than what iOS does - it just throws away what you were going to download and you have to find it again)04:50
AndrewX192I wonder if running /usr/bin/ovistoreclient will output anything04:55
AndrewX192Hm, it's different04:55
itsnotabigtruckyou could try it04:55
AndrewX192Now I have to sign into Nokia04:55
itsnotabigtruckoh, that's because you ran it as user04:55
itsnotabigtruckdon't sign in04:55
itsnotabigtruckerm, ran it as developer04:55
itsnotabigtruckyou should su to user first04:56
AndrewX192Yeah, developer04:56
itsnotabigtruckenter root pw04:56
itsnotabigtruckdevel-su -c 'ovistoreclient' user04:56
AndrewX192that's not "root"?04:56
AndrewX192Hah, no output04:57
AndrewX192(that is, during the installation process)04:58
AndrewX192Everything else is SignOn crap04:58
AndrewX192Just for grins, I downloaded "Podcasts" from OVI without issues.04:59
AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: other ideas?05:05
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itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: back05:10
itsnotabigtrucksorry, i'm working on a security analysis paper05:11
itsnotabigtruckabout inception, actually, heh05:11
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itsnotabigtruckAndrewX192: did you ever get it sorted?06:01
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itsnotabigtruckalso, anyone else on right now06:12
itsnotabigtruckif so, is anyone aware of any open source file managers for N906:12
itsnotabigtruckbeford mentioned filemuncher earlier06:12
franz`anyone knows how to call a specific duicontrolpanel applet directly via the command line?06:15
NecrosporusThere's is the terminal, I'm pretty sure, cp, mv, rm are free and open source software06:15
NecrosporusIs the terminal emulator itself FOSS however?06:16
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: it is06:17
itsnotabigtrucklook up meego-terminal, it's on gitorious06:17
AndrewX192itsnotabigtruck: nope06:17
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: no idea06:17
franz`lol, there's a -show-fps flag on duicontrolpanel06:17
itsnotabigtruckit's GPL2 to be exact06:17
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: but what i meant by "file managers" is gui file management programs06:18
Necrosporushow nice it would be if N9 software were completely FOSS, including everything what's preinstalled06:18
franz`nah, that'd be terrible!06:18
franz` but yeah, lol fps06:18
itsnotabigtruckthings like filebox, but filebox isn't oss06:18
itsnotabigtruckwhat i want to do is have an aegis-aware file manager that can access the entire system06:19
AndrewX192franz`: try -dev06:19
Necrosporusfranz`, why?06:20
franz` lol06:21
AndrewX192-software too06:21
itsnotabigtruckwhoa, that's pretty cool06:22
AndrewX192Because it lags so much06:22
itsnotabigtruckthe -dev stuff06:22
franz`this is great lol06:23
AndrewX192   [-reverse] Change the layout direction to right-to-left direction06:24
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AndrewX192So the N9 just gave me a new email notification06:28
AndrewX192So I pick up the device and swipe to view the email06:29
AndrewX192Then it says it doesn't exist06:29
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AndrewX192Apparenly from an email I saw 15 minutes ago06:30
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itsnotabigtruckbtw franz`: if you didn't already, get the final version of aegisctl06:36
itsnotabigtruckalso Necrosporus: did you buy your N9 yet?06:36
franz`I didn't06:36
franz`why do I keep getting certificate errors when wgetting from btw, itsnotabigtruck?06:38
tehdelyi think wget will do that with any SSLed site unless you point it to a truststore of some sort06:38
tehdelyforgive me if i'm wrong06:38
itsnotabigtrucktehdely franz`: it's because wget ignores the "subject alternative name" field06:46
tehdelyah06:46 has a certificate for, with a SAN extension that says it's also good for endno.de06:46
itsnotabigtruckbut wget only looks at the subject line, not the san line06:46
tehdely<3 SAN06:46
itsnotabigtruckso it thinks it's no good06:46
itsnotabigtruckthe net problem is that wget needs to enter the 21st century :p06:46
franz`dns is black magic06:46
tehdelyi have a few sites protected by CloudFlare06:46
tehdelyand they sell teh cheapest SSL ever06:46
tehdelythe reason it's so cheap06:46
tehdelyis they proxy your site + like 30 others06:47
tehdelyand use one cert with all those names as SAN06:47
tehdelyworks for me!06:47
Necrosporusitsnotabigtruck, nope, I did not... this StyleVieCOM stuff do not ship to Russia06:47
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: startcom is the cheapest ssl ever, it's free :p06:47
SpeedEvilI wish wget supported compression.06:47
SpeedEvilThat'd be nice06:47
NecrosporusI wonder if Negri does06:47
itsnotabigtruckbut only for x.domain.tld and domain.tld06:47
itsnotabigtruckyou can't get wildcard/arbitrary san certs for free06:47
tehdelywow, a free SSL vendor that's actually trusted by most browsers?06:48
tehdelyhow did this come to be06:48
itsnotabigtruckbtw Necrosporus: might the fact that the N9 doesn't have GLONASS pose a problem for importing it?06:48
tehdelyare there even that many phones in russia that use GLONASS06:48
itsnotabigtrucki think russia put a tariff on non-GLONASS-aware gps devices to try and force everyone to support it06:48
itsnotabigtruckwhich seems to have worked, it's becoming a standard feature06:49
itsnotabigtruckdual-mode gps/glonass, that is06:49
tehdelyi'm just going to have to assume that china is cooking up something similar06:50
NecrosporusI doubt that's true06:50
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itsnotabigtrucktehdely: well, GLONASS was cooked up a long time ago - iirc it was a soviet project in the 80s06:51
itsnotabigtruckthe yeltsin era kinda put the kibosh on that however06:51
itsnotabigtrucki think china might have its own system though06:51
itsnotabigtruckand the EU tried to launch one too but it's taken off like a tonne of bricks06:52
itsnotabigtrucklast i checked they have 1 satellite up, and you need a lot more than that to be able to locate anything06:52
itsnotabigtruckapparently galileo (eu) went from 1 to 2 satellites :p06:52
tehdelyBeidou is probably 100% lead and melamine06:53
SpeedEvilitsnotabigtruck: you can do location with one moving satellite06:53
itsnotabigtrucki can't imagine the other systems use dozens of satellites just for the lulz06:55
SpeedEvilIt's not fast.06:56
franz`/usr/share/file/magic.mgc <- what the hell is this06:59
franz`oh, file06:59
itsnotabigtruckbtw tehdely: in case you didn't see it before, any chance you could register a qa approval on
itsnotabigtrucki'm at 1 out of 6 right now07:01
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tehdelyi'm off to bed though07:03
tehdelybut you have my Word07:03
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itsnotabigtrucktehdely: oh ok07:03
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itsnotabigtruckrZr: ping07:07
itsnotabigtrucki was just looking at your app there some reason why you're making redak setuid root07:09
itsnotabigtruck(which doesn't seem to do anything with aegis active anyway)07:09
itsnotabigtruckhow do you build a .deb from a qt creator project from the command line07:18
itsnotabigtrucki'm guessing just qmake; make isn't good enough07:18
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itsnotabigtruckthis isn't good07:59
itsnotabigtruckenabling NAT in the kernel enables CONFIG_NF_NAT_NEEDED07:59
itsnotabigtruckCONFIG_NF_NAT_NEEDED modifies an inline function nf_nat_decode_session07:59
itsnotabigtruckwhich is used from xfrm_policy.c, which is compiled statically into the kernel08:00
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itsnotabigtruckif ipsec isn't used it's probably not a problem08:00
itsnotabigtruckbut nat + ipsec at the same time would probably be borked08:00
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KhertanMorning, someone know how i can refresh the content of a qml folder model ? as when content of a folder is updated the model is't09:35
Khertanis not09:35
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rigoKhertan, unfortunately, I can't09:46
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djszapidid we get the Lumia 800 as a gift or as a loan ?09:51
djszapiiow, can I sell it ?09:51
Khertanread contract :)09:52
djszapithat is what I would like to avoid...09:52
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djszapiDevice: Nokia Lumia 800 Developer gift -> It really seems sellable then.09:56
rigodjszapi, the distinction you ask normally doesn't require to read the clauses about having your children and grand-children obliged to buy a pound of coffee per month09:56
rigodjszapi, why don't you try to get harmattan on it :-P09:57
djszapiwho cares about Harmattan.09:57
* djszapi does not.09:57
rigosome kind of linux I mean...09:58
djszapino, thanks.09:58
rigouh oh...09:58
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djszapiI already have /many/ devices with Linux on it.09:58
djszapianyway, this is clearly a hijack for the question :)09:59
rigo:) Sorry09:59
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psycho_oreoseven if for example you can get linux running on lumia, you still got to put up with that ugly microsoft logo/button10:04
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fluxpsycho_oreos, nothing a little bit drmeling won't fix!10:36
Termanadjszapi, gift10:43
Termanasell dat junk10:43
djszapiTermana: hehe, thanks.10:44
djszapiTermana: I cannot supply the "customer" with Nokia warranty, right ?10:46
Termanadjszapi, hmm, I don't know - I don't have the actual click-through contract on hand, but if it came with one I don't see why not. Mine didn't show any indication it had a warranty10:48
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TermanaAlthough I haven't looked through the booklets10:49
djszapiI had the impression it does come one, just like the N9 gifts.10:49
djszapidoes not come with one*10:49
Termanadjszapi, have you turned yours on? Did they preenter any details?10:50
rigodjszapi, depends, if you have warranty, it may also apply to the subsequent owner, notwithstanding that it was a gift10:50
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rigothis is complex and there are a lot of court decisions on cars via grey import etc10:51
rigoso it is not per se excluded that the thing has warranty10:51
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VelmontMy email program won't open anymore. I made the mistake of putting All Email in favourites, and the N9 went on to download all my email. And now it won't open because it's probably overloaded with email. I did stop the transfer, -- so it probably only got some tens of thousands emails, -- but still, it can't be opened.10:58
VelmontSo... Any way to fix? :P10:58
gridelete the email account and add it again10:58
grithis may delete the messages10:58
VelmontHmmmm. Yes... I won't loose anything that's correct. OK then. -- Although I thought they may be stored in .cache/emailapplicationname/ or something like that (didn't find it).11:01
VelmontOK, can't think of a way that'd break something. I'll try :-)11:01
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gareth__morning all11:04
gareth__I'm trying to reflash my N9 by following instructions here
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gareth__problem is - although I can get the main firmware .bin file by using, I can't find the EMMC file11:05
gareth__specifically, DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4.CENTRALEUROPE_EMMC_CENTRALEUROPE.bin11:05
gareth__anyone know where I can get it?11:05
gabriel9|workwho wish to code this with me tonight?11:08
djszapigabriel9|work: how much money do you have ?11:08
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gabriel9|workit is community work :)11:09
gabriel9|workto port this on meego11:09
gabriel9|workeveryone want monney today :D11:09
djszapihow strange..11:09
TermanaCash money is a good thing if you're poor11:10
gabriel9|workwell i think that is the problem11:10
gabriel9|worki worked one year for free11:10
Termanadoesn't seem like community work to me11:10
gabriel9|workand it feals great, my partner oppened company11:11
Termanaseems like "I really want someone to do this for me"11:11
gabriel9|workand i have great expirience11:11
gabriel9|workno no no11:11
gabriel9|worki'm new to Meego, and i wish to code it11:11
gabriel9|workbut when i stuck samone can give me a push11:12
phakowhat the hell is that language tab in nokia store supposed to mean? does it mean which translations an application supports?11:12
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TermanaLooks like someone have you a push11:12
djszapiphako: yes11:12
djszapiphako: use all :)11:13
djszapithey do not check it ...11:13
djszapimy app is fully English, and all worked out.11:13
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phakoyeah, it kind of sounds that the distribution would be limited if you don't11:13
djszapiI do not think so11:14
djszapiit would just be marked as such11:14
djszapiso some people might lose the interest just because of this.11:14
djszapiI think the region t ab is more about that what you said.11:14
gabriel9|workheh, i will try to do it myself11:15
gabriel9|workall fame to me!11:15
djszapican you buy bread for fame in the shop ? :)11:15
djszapiwho cares about fame :D11:16
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gabriel9|workok i will bug you if i stuck11:23
gabriel9|worki don't want fame or monney(for now :)), just code and learn11:24
djszapithen why do you need anybody ? :)11:24
djszapito do the work ?11:24
djszapijust go code and learn :)11:24
gabriel9|workhell i stuck and then spend valuable time searching11:26
gabriel9|worki don't have much time, job, gf and family11:26
djszapiwhy do you hurry ? That is how you learn.11:27
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gabriel9|worki know, i learn all bymeslf11:31
gabriel9|workdid not go to school11:32
gabriel9|workbut now when i work i have so little time, it is amazing how time just passes11:32
gabriel9|workand this also is problem with me :) :
djszapirock'n roll rocks and rolls :)11:36
gabriel9|workyes, and i want it all :D11:37
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gareth__hmm, the EMMC image shows up in Navifirm+, but I see no record of it in the SOAP envelope received by naviperl11:44
* gareth__ reluctantly installs wine to see if navifirm+ will run on Linux11:45
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xmlich02Hi guys, we are making an conference about mobile devices. Look on call for papers .11:55
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xmlich02There is also an contest to create an Qt application (1st price is nokia n9 and maybe some n950). The rules of contest says, the application should be made only for this contest, should be submited to ovi store.11:57
djszapixmlich02: can the speakers count with financial support for the traveling ?11:58
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xmlich02i think we are not able to cover all expanses, but i guess we can cover part of it12:01
gareth__grr, navifirm+ 1.7 doesn't run on Linux, gives some obscure .NET error message12:04
gabriel9|workxmlich02: too far for me :(12:09
gabriel9|workdamn one more N950 out of reach :/12:09
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djszapixmlich02: how will the apps be assessed ?12:18
djszapiand only one N9 ?12:18
gareth__found a solution for downloading N9 firmware on Linux:
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gareth__works like NaviFirm+, but written in C++ rather than .NET, so works under Wine12:30
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xmlich02there will be 3-5 judges (some from openmobility, some from czech nokia, I guess). Depending on number of contestant 1x N9 and (more then 30 contestants) 2xN950.12:32
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djszapiwill they be gifts, aka. can we sell them ?12:33
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xmlich02I do not know whether will be possible to sell them. I suppose it will be gift, but i have to ask.12:45
djszapican you please clarify that bit ?12:46
djszapiiow, please go ahead ask and let me know the reply :)12:46
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gabriel9|workdjszapi: you will sell N950 ?12:57
djszapigabriel9|work: of course, if it is a gift.12:57
gabriel9|workhow much?12:58
gabriel9|workand remember i am your friend :D12:58
djszapiwe will discuss it, if I have one N950 gift...12:58
gabriel9|workhe will create auction for sure :P12:59
gabriel9|workand maybe fight to the death for it12:59
psycho_oreosand he'll film it.. and he'll youtube it so every other devs can and will laugh at the users who fight over a single N95013:00 not be shaKespeare :)13:00
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gabriel9|workand nokia will watch it and still will not give new n9x13:02
gabriel9|workcan we use guns, i can get AK47 XD13:03
psycho_oreosthey'll reflash it with mango and lock the bootloader, gives it to the `gifted' developers and gives us the finger when it comes to showing alternative platforms with respect13:03
psycho_oreoshistory will repeat itself again13:04
gabriel9|workdamn true13:04
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xmlich02djszapi, jreznik is organizing this contest. As he told me, the n950 will be gift, so you can eventually sell it13:25
djszapicool :)13:26
djszapi... and what is the assessment base ?13:26
jreznikdjszapi: ?13:26
djszapihow will the decision be made who get such gadgets ?13:27
jreznikI'll try to prepare English version today13:27
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jreznikdjszapi: as xmlich02 already said - there will be some kind of jury (expect xmlich02, me, our nokia contact)13:28
djszapiok, but how do you guys decide ?13:29
djszapidownloads in ovi, reviews, usability, or ?13:29
djszapihow difficult it was to be made, etc13:30
djszapiplease can we keep the code under our name, or shall we need to subsidize it to Nokia etc13:30
djszapithough, we can probably keep oru licensing, I hope.13:31
xmlich02i forgot to mention all rules probably. It has to be gpl licenced13:31
xmlich02The decision will be made according to experience, personal preferences, etc. of judges. We will compare the application. You have to create basically the best of these applications.13:32
djszapiso ovi reviews and downloads do not matter ?13:33
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djszapiis there a time frame when I need to create my content ?13:34
djszapior can it be "premade" before the stuff ?13:34
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jreznikdjszapi: it's already written in czech version - it has to be open source, it's your code, and I will say idea + good implementation matters13:34
xmlich0213.3 to 13.4.201213:35
djszapiso from today on13:35
jreznikdjszapi: I prefer no premade to have a same starting point but one of the topics are for example ports - so if you port another kde app + harmattan ui...13:35
xmlich02manually translated version will be available today13:36
djszapiyes, only kde + harmattan ui I can think of based on my biasment :p13:36
jreznikI tried to let it more open, if you have any idea...13:38
jreznikfirst openmobility conference itself is a good reason to come, great people, geeks and my friends, also cheap beer :)13:38
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djszapiN9any next billion devices for the contents ?13:42
jreznikdjszapiN9: nope but I hope for another round with next thousands devices :)13:43
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djszapijreznik: hehe :)13:48
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Sazpaimon__Firefox can't establish a connection to the server at
Sazpaimon__somehow the internet feels... a little better13:53
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ArkanoiD_today "smartsearch" is the winner of the contest "who is draining battery"14:13
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aquariusIf I'm planning to write an app which is basically a webpage, but requires a couple of little privileged things (so I can't just make it a webpage, but instead plan to make the app a WebKit widget into which I inject a couple of extra APIs), is there any benefit to me having the webkit widget created in QML? So my "back end" is python, which creates a window and loads QML into it, and the QML then creates a webkit14:23
aquariuswidget and loads my app's HTML into it14:23
aquariusor should I just create a webkit widget direct from python and not use any QML because there's no point?14:23
aquarius(I'd happily just do all the work in QML if QML could read and write files, which it can't :( )14:24
aquarius(is this a #harmattan question or some sort of #nokia-qt-channel question?)14:24
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pawkyI believe fake apps being web pages is a bad implementation...14:33
pawkybut then again... thats my oppinion..14:33
aquariusWe shall have to agree to disagree on that point, then :-)14:33
pawkywhy not write a reall app?14:34
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aquariusbecause I'm not good at C++, and I would like this app to share as much code between platforms as possible. So writing the bulk of it in HTML and JavaScript and then just providing extra APIs to that JavaScript, which Qt knows how to do, means I share a lot of code across differnet platform builds.14:35
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gabriel9|workdamn that web page aps14:59
gabriel9|workapp *14:59
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M4rtinKX-Fade: looks like search on COBS is broken15:16
djszapiM4rtinK: known issue15:16
djszapiand not c-obs issue15:16
M4rtinKok :)15:16
M4rtinKbut I think it worked previously15:17
djszapiyes, of course.15:17
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itsnotabigtruckgareth__: there's two different nokia update servers, one of them has things like emmc updates, the other does not15:22
itsnotabigtruckin theory, main images are for end users (via nsu) and emmc images are for repair shops only (for "refurbishing" units)15:22
rigoaquarius, this is the basic idea behind
aquariusrigo, absolutely, and that's what I'm doing.15:23
gareth__itsnotabigtruck: yes, I noticed that in NaviFirmEx15:23
rigogreat! :)15:23
gareth__itsnotabigtruck: so maybe the problem with the perl script is that it's pointing at the customer site, rather than the repair one15:23
itsnotabigtruckjust slept too late again :/ i need to unscrew my sleep cycle15:23
gareth__itsnotabigtruck: AFAICS the important URL in that script is
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: me too :p15:24
itsnotabigtruckgareth__: iirc that's a namespace, not the soap url15:24
aquariusHowever, the N9 browser doesn't, yet, quite support all the browser APIs I'd like. It will do in time, but for the moment it's not quite there -- requestFileSystem, for example, is not yet implemented. So, I'm happy to patch those APIs in from the outside, and have the thing containing my webkit widget provide that API15:24
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: we could help each other with good practices :p15:24
aquariusrigo, ^15:24
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gareth__itsnotabigtruck: ah, the namespace is
itsnotabigtruckoh right15:24
gareth__itsnotabigtruck: (full script:
aquariusrigo, but... I'm not sure how best to do that; should I have a python harmattan app which creates a window and loads QML into it, and the QML creates a webkit widget... or just have the python create a webkit widget itself and not use QML at all?15:25
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itsnotabigtruck^ it's those15:25
itsnotabigtrucki asked admiral0 to add them to naviperl but he had trouble15:25
itsnotabigtruckso maybe better off to use navifirmex until he figures out a way15:25
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itsnotabigtruckalso is tmo down for anyone else?15:25
rigoaquarius, first of all, I would -as far as is possible- not write browser dependend code15:26
rigobecause this way, you're sawing the branch you're sitting on :)15:26
aquariusrigo, and I do not intend to; the code I've already written works fine in any browser supporting the necessary APIs.15:26
rigobecause the dominant browser will just turn into a proprietary dev environment15:27
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rigobut unfortunately, I can't answer your question about whether to use qt directly or go via webkit. Both have decent HTTP implementations AFAIK15:28
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rigobest would be to ask Art Barstow15:28
itsnotabigtruckaquarius: the qt app will feel so much more native15:29
itsnotabigtruckand not like some web runtime junk off symbian or something15:29
itsnotabigtruckalso supposedly my n9 usb lids should be shipping soon15:29
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aquariusI happily use web apps for most of what I'm doing on the n9 anyway; mobile twitter website and so on. So I'm not crushingly worried by feeling native, here, I don't think.15:31
itsnotabigtruckaquarius: twitter...but the n9 ships with a native client...15:35
aquariusitsnotabigtruck, it does indeed. I don't like it, though. :)15:36
itsnotabigtruckas a matter of fact i should add my account to it15:36
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aquarius(and I use web stuff for other things, too: google reader and google plus, reddit, todo lists -- this isn't a weakness of N9, it's one of the best things about it)15:36
gareth__does anyone know where the maemo6 qmake scope gets defined?15:39
gareth__it's not done by the linux-g++-maemo mkspec, and it is not hard-coded (like win32, unix, symbian) in qmake15:39
gareth__itsnotabigtruck: OK, thanks - I don't really know SOAP, otherwise I'd try adding those myself15:40
gareth__itsnotabigtruck: anyway, NaviFirmEx works for me - but a CLI would be nice15:41
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qronichm, sony xperia solo will feature 1 GHz STE U8500 dual-core processor15:50
qronicis this a first STE smartphone?15:50
qronicvery long way for u850015:50
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itsnotabigtruckqronic: it looks nice...but continues the trend of compact = low end15:54
itsnotabigtruckargh, make it stop!15:54
itsnotabigtruckit seems like they keep putting the latest hardware in bloody gigantic chassis just because that's the trend15:55
itsnotabigtruckit's a trend that produces unusable phones15:55
qronicI second that15:55
qronicespecially samsung is going crazy15:55
Sazpaimon__I hate websites that embed the entire page into an iframe15:56
qronicwhat about U8500, I guess it would be not a very wise choice for those who like cyanogen and all other unofficial hacks15:56
Sazpaimon__or worse, a frameset15:56
itsnotabigtruckqronic: i don't know much about it not so great? specwise it doesn't sound bad at all15:57
itsnotabigtruckcertainly better than what's in the N9 :p15:57
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon__: sites still do that?15:57
itsnotabigtruckthat's very early 2000s15:57
qronicdunno, but they are rare - less developers, less images from orger phones, etc15:57
infobotqronic meant: dunno, but they are rare - less developers, less images from other phones, etc15:57
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Sazpaimon__itsnotabigtruck, my online banking site does that16:03
Sazpaimon__and I have some software I wrote that uses iframes to simulate a frameset, so its XHTML and HTML5 compliant16:03
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Sazpaimonto be fair though, my software emulates a popular japanese BBS script16:04
Sazpaimonand apparently the japanese, and to a lesser extent chinese, seem to stay in the dark ages when it comes to web and software design16:05
Sazpaimonive run into a lot of software that still gets compressed using lzh16:06
Sazpaimoninstead of more common formats like zip, rar or tgz16:06
itsnotabigtruckyeah, i'm not sure what the situation is with japan and computing/ seems like one would expect them to be way ahead of the curve16:07
itsnotabigtruckmaybe it's the language barrier (programming is very english-centric) and the difficulty of CJK text input in general16:08
Sazpaimonunicode has pretty much solved that16:08
Sazpaimonin fact theyve gotten so far into it that the only proposals I see nowadays are for pictographs used in proprietart CJK fontsets16:09
Sazpaimonyou know, like PILE OF POO16:09
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: unicode doesn't solve either of those problems16:10
itsnotabigtruckit solves CJK text /representation/16:10
itsnotabigtrucknot input, and it certainly can't erase away that all programming languages use the latin character set, english keywords, and have a litany of usually english-only docs16:10
Sazpaimonyeah i wasnt reading when you said text input16:10
Sazpaimonbut there's always brainfuck16:11
itsnotabigtruckyou can use non-english identifiers and comments but that's also usually considered bad form, so yeah16:11
Sazpaimonthat doesn't use latin16:11
Sazpaimonhell, it doesnt even use words16:11
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Sazpaimonbut there really should be a language called "programmer's english"16:12
Sazpaimonlike "buisiness english"16:12
Sazpaimonone that mainly consists of common phrases and terms used in programming discussion and languages16:12
itsnotabigtruckeh, maybe16:13
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Sazpaimonone that documentation should conform to16:13
itsnotabigtrucksounds doomed, you can't just subset a language like that16:13
Sazpaimonthey did it for buisiness english16:14
itsnotabigtruckand i'd rather describe things in documentation when i want with the terms i want16:14
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Sazpaimonyou can get a degree in business english too16:14
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itsnotabigtruckerm, no, "business english" is just referring to courses introducing english slanted toward business, or that sort of thing16:14
Sazpaimonits a real language16:14
itsnotabigtruckit's not a language16:15
Sazpaimonwhen I learned buisiness english it was basically taught as a subset of english, really16:15
itsnotabigtruckin any case, people learning english and not going all the way probably only increases communication barriers16:17
Sazpaimonit certainly doesnt make troubleshooting easy16:17
Sazpaimonjust look at half the threads on TMO16:17
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djszapibusiness english or not ... you might not wanna miss the Plasma Active video above :)16:18
itsnotabigtruckthat's...some of the people you see posting online with improper english, i think that goes beyond just limited english skills :/16:18
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Sazpaimondjszapi, the resolution on that looks horrible16:20
Sazpaimoneverything is huge16:20
Sazpaimonis that resolution or DPI issue16:20
gabriel9|worknice video16:20
gabriel9|worki will wait for 10" version16:20
gabriel9|workwill it have more RAM?16:21
Sazpaimonthis looks more like a one-off device to test the market16:21
Sazpaimonwhich will more than likely not respond :/16:21
Sazpaimoni really dont like that resolution though16:22
itsnotabigtrucktablet needs better fonts16:22
itsnotabigtruckother than that, looks cool16:22
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, did you look into the updated compat-wireless?16:23
Sazpaimoni kinda passed out16:23
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: well, pretty much all the patches are for stuff compiled into the kernel :/16:23
itsnotabigtruckso upgrading the driver, it might work for open mode or inception+kexec, but not just slotting some modules in16:23
gabriel9|workyou can always use konsole on tablet all is OK16:24
Sazpaimonalso that video doesnt have enough silly running animation16:24
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rigodjszapi, nice video, but clashes with the X-Windows paradigms. Especially as if you switch Activities, it kills the applications that you started remotely without being able to restart them16:29
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djszapirigo: do not compalin to me16:33
djszapiI am not a platform developer at all16:33
rigoI've given up on those :)16:34
djszapithey have dedicated medium for that :)16:34
rigoyes, /dev/null16:34
djszapibut let us feed you with more:
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gabriel9|workthat one i watched16:41
djszapiX-Fade ping16:41
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itsnotabigtruckhmm, apparently DFL (in DFL61) = Device Family Linux17:01
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gabriel9|workoh, today i need to code for Android :/17:15
gabriel9|workany good read about it?17:15
gabriel9|worklast time i coded was 2 years ago17:15
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djszapiN9depends on what you need to code, i guess.17:18
djszapiN9and how much knowledge you have.17:18
lardmanYou can code in Qt for Android17:21
Anssi138that might need mighty debugging skills17:24
Anssi138or how good the port is? wondering just is the mobility working etc.17:25
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lardman iirc17:25
djszapiN9Anssi138, quite good17:27
Anssi138only 55 tickets. that's not a lot17:27
djszapiN9even kde runs to a certain extent17:27
djszapiN9and full opengl etc17:28
djszapiN9it was alrready pretty qmazing last year.17:28
Anssi138i think it might suffer devices' fragmentation17:29
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Anssi138hopefully playbook's qt gets in good shape too. It might be fun toy then, the qnx is nice and low level and all but little rude for stock app development.17:36
Anssi138i just ordered one :)17:38
gabriel9|workwell i need basic stuff17:39
gabriel9|worki know java and i remember some nigtmare with xml files in droids :D17:40
gabriel9|work3 page app with questions, every corect answer open new page17:40
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gabriel9|workalso when i learn  good qt i will code android apps in qt17:41
jreznikgabriel9|work: switch from nightmare xml files to qml (could be nightmare too sometimes :)17:44
gabriel9|worki don't like xml :)17:44
Anssi138who would17:47
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gabriel9|worksee ya, finally home eat and play games(just alittle)17:56
itsnotabigtruckhmm, not much takeup on aegisctl so far17:57
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itsnotabigtruckbtw Anssi138: make sure to incept your phone (if that's your thing)17:57
itsnotabigtruckthen get aegisctl, which lets you relax aegis on the fly17:58
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Sazpaimon_its official, I am in way too many freenode cannels18:46
Sazpaimon_its taken up my entire tab screen on a 1080p resolution18:46
MohammadAGcheap fixes are awesome18:50
MohammadAG1080p isn't much, get an iPad18:51
MohammadAGno, not the first one, the new one18:51
MohammadAGApple seriously fucked up the naming scheme18:51
itsnotabigtruckMohammadAG: well, i guess apple doesn't really want its products to be seen as distinct iterations18:53
itsnotabigtruckbut instead some sort of continutiy18:53
franz`they've done it for years with macs and ipods. if anything the iphone/ipad are the odd ones out18:54
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: the iphone specifically, yeah, it's strange18:54
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MohammadAGiPhones have been following some sort of naming scheme18:56
MohammadAG2 3 3S, 4, 4S18:57
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MohammadAGok, so commenting no longer crashes18:57
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franz`that's unnecessary. remember when the techpress was disappointed the new iphone was a 4s instead of a 5?18:58
MohammadAGI'm not sure why a QGraphicsWidget in another MWidget based class crashes an app when deleted18:58
MohammadAGbut a subclass of MWidget inside an MWidget based class doesn't18:58
MohammadAGthe 4S was a minor upgrade18:58
MohammadAGexcept CPU wise, the thing beats the 4 by miles at launching apps18:58
franz`yea. so I hope the next iphone is just "the new iphone" to get rid of major/minor upgrade expectations19:02
itsnotabigtruckand i'd rather forget the iphone :p it's a neat piece of hardware, but it defines mainstream19:03
itsnotabigtruckyou can fairly reliably stereotype people based on their use of an iphone19:03
itsnotabigtruckit's become a cultural symbol, and not a good one19:03
MohammadAG<itsnotabigtruck> you can fairly reliably stereotype people based on their use of an iphone <-- so true19:05
MohammadAGI'm saying this cause I got an iPhone in October19:05
MohammadAGDecember actually19:05
MohammadAG12.12.12, it was a coincidence really19:05
itsnotabigtruckat 12:12 UTC19:05
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MohammadAGmight be true itsnotabigtruck, it was 2PM here19:06
MohammadAGI just noticed the date when I signed the paper19:06
beford12 12 11 you mean19:06
MohammadAGoh, then it was 11.11.1119:06
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MohammadAGyeah, it was a friday ^19:06
* itsnotabigtruck wants MohammadAG's time machine19:06
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MohammadAG<beford> traitor < I still prefer the N950 in many ways, and develop for it19:07
beford12/12 is my birthday. this year its going to be legendary 12/12/1219:07
MohammadAG(though I develop for the iPhone in secret)19:07
itsnotabigtrucki'm doing a modules build of the kernel right now, to add a whole bunch of netfilter/iptables stuff, ipsec stuff, and more crypto algorithms19:07
itsnotabigtrucki couldn't find much else of interest that could be added as a module19:08
itsnotabigtruckno NAT, because enabling NAT affects a function that's inlined into the static part of the kernel :/19:08
itsnotabigtrucki don't think it would be a problem unless ipsec and nat were used at the same time19:08
itsnotabigtruckit might be possible to do some uber hacking and mitigate that though19:08
MohammadAGSociality got stable commenting now, woo19:09
franz`compile a busybox with wget while you're at it itsnotabigtruck19:09
befordI have an iPad but I don't develop for it. I barely develop for the n9 xD19:09
franz`wish the harmattan one had it19:09
MohammadAGbeford, I have an iPad (2) too19:10
MohammadAGgot it as a gift19:10
befordmine was free19:10
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MohammadAGbeford, is it white?19:11
befordblack. everybody knows black runs faster19:12
tehdelywish i had gotten a black N919:12
MohammadAGdamn, you win there19:12
tehdelycase would be a little less fragile19:12
tehdelybut i went for beauty19:12
tehdelyand now it's got a nice chunk taken out of it by the headphone jack19:12
franz`I wish they made cyan 64gb N9s :(19:12
MohammadAGI thought the black one has a matte paint that wares off19:12
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: can't you just install the wget package19:12
itsnotabigtruckapt-get install wget19:12
tehdelyMohammadAG: the black one is polycarbonate through and through19:13
itsnotabigtrucksupplied by nokia and everything19:13
franz`I can19:13
tehdelythe white one has this lacquered finish19:13
tehdelyit is beautiful though, lemme tell you19:13
tehdelyit is an eye-catching phone19:13
MohammadAGtehdely, yes, but it has a matte paint on it19:13
MohammadAGafter wearing off it gets glossy19:13
MohammadAGsorta like PlayStation DualShocks19:13
tehdelyMohammadAG: really?  i thought it was a solid block of the same material19:13
MohammadAGtehdely, sec19:13
MohammadAGtehdely, I don't have an N9 fyi19:14
tehdelyi'm pretty sure you're wrong about the coating then19:14
tehdelyblack, cyan, magenta = the case is a solid block fo polycarbonate19:14
tehdelywhite = polycarbonate with a hard lacquer finish19:15
tehdelywhich breaks easily :(19:15
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befordthere was a picture on tmo comparing a new lumia with an older n919:15
tehdelyi think it's why the white one ships with a leather case19:15
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: so...why not?19:16
tehdelymy concern is doing somethign that fucks up the phone, going to replace it, and there not being another n9 to buy19:16
MohammadAGtehdely, no19:16
tehdelyis nokia still mfgring it?19:16
franz`I have it, just would like it built into wget, dunno why19:16
franz`tehdely: buy a replacement housing, store it in case of emergencies19:17
tehdelyfranz`: lemme guess, will have one? :>19:18
MohammadAGI guess they didn't notice it finland, people probably don't know what sweat is there19:18
MohammadAGthough hand oils should be present, even at -4019:18
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MohammadAGin finland*19:18
nid0fwiw, i've had my n9 for months and it still looks as good as that lumia on the right19:19
itsnotabigtruckany idea why the basename command might not do what one expects19:19
itsnotabigtruckwhen being run from find -exec19:19
nid0not in a case*19:19
itsnotabigtruckbasename seems to be returning its argument19:19
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gabriel9hm, this is really nice tool
gabriel9i just tried it and it works :/20:21
gabriel9also fast compile20:21
gabriel9and yes i know that this is Harmattan chanell :)20:21
RzRi wish it also bring the ndk20:22
gabriel9well that is to much20:22
gabriel9i would be happy if i have something like this on N920:23
RzRyou have vi and gcc20:23
RzRand ssh20:23
gabriel9yes i have :) but it is not IDE. Don't get me wrong i was coding in Kate for a year :)20:24
RzRthen urge for emacs20:24
gabriel9that emacs give me so much trouble20:25
gabriel9Kate is nice for KDE, but i use Netbeans now20:25
RzRwont be soon on n920:26
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gabriel9i know20:27
gabriel9and display is to small20:27
RzRgabriel9: btw if you really want to develop on device , please suggest some features for redak :
gabriel9we need keyboard20:27
RST38hThere is nano20:27
RST38hAnd it even gets installed as part of devtools20:27
RzRRST38h: there is zile too20:27
RST38hSomeone inside Maemo team has heard my silent scream for nano20:28
gabriel9redak is ok, i was planing to code something like that. But i have no knowledge20:28
RzRi had no knowlege when i started it :)20:28
tehdelyi want vim :>20:28
tehdelyvi is just enough to scrape by20:28
gabriel9i want keyboard lol20:29
RzRthere are some bt kb20:29
gabriel9i was thinking to get small one and then ducktape it to my n920:29
gabriel9what would my colegues tell about that i wonder20:30
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RzRthats the idea i had20:32
gabriel9this works20:33
RzRtalking about that20:33
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gabriel9there must be some glitches20:35
gabriel9but it work20:35
gabriel9case would also protective for n920:36
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itsnotabigtrucknid0: apparently the case friction is precisely what wears it down, however21:00
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RST38hMeanwhile: Samsung Makes the New iPad's Screen Because No One Else Could21:03
itsnotabigtruckwhat's the earliest point in the boot process where one could inject something21:03
itsnotabigtruckwithout pathcing aegis-protected files21:03
itsnotabigtruck(i.e. no patching /sbin/preinit)21:04
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itsnotabigtruckideally i want to run before any of the system init scripts21:06
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itsnotabigtruckalso RzR: still around? i was wondering last night why your postinst script for redak makes it setuid root21:07
itsnotabigtruck(which afaict is a no-op on harmattan anyway)21:08
itsnotabigtruckalso have you published the latest redak to afm yet?21:09
danielcbitHy Everybody. Did somebody ever experienced problem with UI apps bein called from daemons?21:09
itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: you might have to make sure the ui app runs as user21:09
danielcbititsnotabigtruck: The app runs as user. All aegis settings are in place.21:10
danielcbititsnotabigtruck: The main problem is vkb not showing up21:10
itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: i'm guessing you wouldn't know but:21:10
itsnotabigtruckitsnotabigtruck | what's the earliest point in the boot process where one could inject something21:10
itsnotabigtruck(without patching aegis-protected files like /sbin/preinit)21:11
danielcbitBut, if I run the daemon by hand with aegis exec, the UI works as expected and the vkb is shown21:11
itsnotabigtruckalso are you sure this is the best design...generally it's not really a good idea to spawn GUIs from daemons21:11
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danielcbititsnotabigtruck: My deamon has to watch some system events and then trigger the UI.21:12
itsnotabigtrucki think there's a way to launch startup programs from the desktop environment (rather than upstart)21:13
itsnotabigtruckmaybe look into that21:13
itsnotabigtruckmight solve your problem too21:13
danielcbitbut what is really strange is that if not executed by upstart, everything works as expected21:14
danielcbititsnotabigtruck: Any links about that?21:14
itsnotabigtruckno, just search around because i don't remember off hand21:16
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itsnotabigtruckman, things get dead pretty quickly here :(21:48
itsnotabigtruckbtw Sazpaimon: i forgot whether you're using ad-hac...if you are, any chance you could put in a QA approval on appsformeego?21:49
itsnotabigtruckit's at 1 out of 6 right now21:49
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gabriel9RzR ping22:00
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djszapibeford: pingie22:19
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djszapibeford: could you please try to build openal from master on Mac ?22:21
djszapimy friend has just pushed a fix.22:21
befordsure pm the instructions22:22
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djszapibeford: once it is built, you can run openal-info for testing.22:25
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befordok installing cmake22:31
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Sazpaimon[15:48] <itsnotabigtruck> btw Sazpaimon: i forgot whether you're using ad-hac...if you are, any chance you could put in a QA approval on appsformeego?22:32
Sazpaimonim not22:32
Sazpaimonim just using the n9quicktweak setting22:32
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itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: ah...then undo that and use ad-hac instead :p22:38
itsnotabigtruckhmm, was firefox on the ovi store just updated?22:39
djszapifreenode group registration suuuuucks.22:39
itsnotabigtruckjust got an update notification for fx 11.0 and flash 4.0.0-73.122:39
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bef0rdthere were some warnings, want to see make output?22:40
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: any idea about that early execution question?22:40
itsnotabigtruck(i.e. what's the earliest place i can run a startup script that doesn't require interfering with aegis-protected files)22:40
* djszapi is not interested in harmattan anymore22:41
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itsnotabigtruckanyone having trouble with the addons screen in fx 11 (on ovi) not working?22:43
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: the advantage is that n9quicktweak uses the upstart hack, so it lets ad-hoc be turned off, then turns it on minutes later22:44
itsnotabigtruckand i think there's scenarios where it can get turned off later on its own22:44
itsnotabigtruckwhereas ad-hac prevents it from being turned off in the first place22:45
befordseems to work for me itsnotabigtruck22:45
beforddjszapi, give me your n950s :D22:45
djszapibeford: please make output, too.22:45
itsnotabigtruckbeford: yeah, it started working again just now22:45
djszapibeford: oh wait, you cloned from master, right ?22:46
djszapinot the released tarball ?22:46
befordi followed the instructions from git yea22:46
djszapibeford: also, ALSOFT_LOGLEVEL=3 ./openal-info22:47
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itsnotabigtruckbeford: porting openal to harmattan? cool22:48
itsnotabigtruckoh no, it's your mac22:48
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it was porting 1-2 years ago22:49
bef0rdjust testing this for djszapi22:49
djszapiby me for a 3d audio based game.22:49
bef0rd djszapi22:50
djszapibef0rd: thanks.22:50
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itsnotabigtrucki do not understand xargs23:03
itsnotabigtruckno matter how i invoke it, xargs seems to bunch all the input lines into one command23:04
itsnotabigtrucki thought it's supposed to do one invoction per input item23:04
itsnotabigtruckfinally, got it23:06
rigoisn't xargs streaming everything into a pipe?23:07
itsnotabigtruckrigo: i didn't realize that xargs doesn't do 1 input = 1 invocation by default23:07
itsnotabigtruckno, xargs takes items from stdin (whitespace or '\0' separated) and runs some command for each23:07
rigoha, didn't know that either23:07
itsnotabigtruckbut the weird thing is that it tries to batch input items together which causes weird results if you're using a command that doesn't support that kind of thing23:08
rigohm, probably from the times where 128kbit main memory was a mainframe23:08
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befordwhat are you working on itsnotabigtruck23:22
itsnotabigtruckbeford: additional kernel modules for pr1.223:23
itsnotabigtruckfor things like ipsec23:23
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befordI suppose that if USB hostmode were working more modules would be useful23:27
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MohammadAGdoes anyone know the default font size on Harmattan?23:45
MohammadAGfont.pixelSize() returns -123:45
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befordwhats that itsnotabigtruck23:58
befordminecraft ripoff ?23:58

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