IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-03-10

itsnotabigtruckor maybe beta300:00
jonnimesserting: and are you using usbnet or wifi?00:00
messertingjonni: wifi00:00
messertingmaybe I need to reboot my phone00:00
jonniand what ip does connectivity app says, and is your desktop in same c-mask?00:00
itsnotabigtruckis there a kernel headers package available for PR1.2's kernel, or is that part of the unreleased SDk too00:00
messertingboth in 192.168.1.*00:00
jonniitsnotabigtruck: you can just open scratchbox and untar kernelsources and say "dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot" and it generates headers package for your00:02
* messerting restarting my "Linux" phone, f*ck aegis00:02
* ajalkane is on his knees, weeping gratefully for aegis, and all the upper level management who decided the policy rules00:04
itsnotabigtruckjonni: yeah, i was just hoping for a faster way (and with less chance of variance from the real headers package)00:04
itsnotabigtruckmesserting: get incepted00:05
itsnotabigtruckthen stop complaining about aegis, start controlling aegis00:05
jonniitsnotabigtruck: well dpkg-buildpackage does 1:1 copy compared to real headers package00:05
itsnotabigtruckjonni: heh, true00:05
teleshoesinception > no-aegis > aegis00:06
messertingthere is no spoon00:06
jesuschristi agree, aegis isnt totally evil00:07
teleshoesaegis is awful because it actually stops users from doing things they want to do00:08
teleshoesit would be easy for it not to be awful00:08
teleshoesbut there it is00:08
messertingdmesg now says: omap_device: smartreflex.1: new worst case deactivate latency 0: 3051700:08
jesuschristaegis is awful because it cant be deactivated, thats it.00:09
messertingaegis would be great, if I, the user, was given control, not somebody else00:09
teleshoesyea, we're all saying the same thing00:09
ajalkaneaegis is power. In the hands of people, it can be good. But in the hands of corporations... it takes only some upper level management, and it's a shit-cake upon user.00:09
teleshoesthe nice thing about aegis00:09
messertingall agreed :)00:09
teleshoesis that nokia explicitly is supporting openmode00:10
teleshoesno-aegis-at-all is perfectly ok00:10
jesuschristplus it reminds me of planescape: torment :D00:10
teleshoesits just a really cool feature we COULD have00:10
messertingWhat is this, from dmesg: Aegis: cannot measure file orcexec.XXXXXX (process: camera-ui)?00:10
itsnotabigtruckmesserting: something you can ignore00:10
jonniteleshoes: but there is aegis even on open mode.00:10
itsnotabigtruckit has something to do with OIL (optimized inner loops) putting down some temporary executable files00:10
jonnimesserting: thats is just informative warning, not an bug or error.00:11
itsnotabigtruckthat aegis complains about (i'm not quite sure what the error means)00:11
itsnotabigtruckwooo, now i get to spend a few hours compiling the kernel :p00:11
teleshoesjonni are you trying to say that aegis is cool because we can still use it in open mode, or that aegis cant be fully circumvented at all?00:12
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: i think he's just pointing out that enabling open mode doesn't mean aegis is gone00:12
jesuschristjust your warranty00:12
itsnotabigtruckyou can make it gone, though things will break if you do that00:12
teleshoesright, i was asking if he meant that as a plus, or a detriment00:12
itsnotabigtruckthough it's probably possible to replace much of the privilege management part of aegis with file capabilities00:13
jonniteleshoes: aegis can be disabled totally in open mode, and even on closed mode if you use exploits. But you lose some functionality on some apps, so you really shouldnt disable it, just make it a bit more permissive and you are all go.00:13
teleshoesyou lose functionality?00:13
teleshoeswhat functionality?00:13
teleshoesi didnt know this00:13
itsnotabigtruckteleshoes: anything that relies on any subset of root access00:13
itsnotabigtruckor setuid/setgid behavior00:14
jesuschristin fact you should just need the possibility to give true root permissions, not disabling it00:14
messertingI see I have no "ifconfig" installed. Is there an alternative? A package I need?00:14
teleshoesyou mean you lose some nice security00:14
teleshoesadd /sbin to path00:14
itsnotabigtrucklots of things have to be adjusted to eliminate any assumption that aegis is present and will give out permissions00:14
jesuschristmesserting : wtf ? reflash the phone lol00:14
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist: s/he's probably just entering it at the terminal00:15
itsnotabigtruckthe terminal doesn't have sbin in the path by default00:15
teleshoesmesserting; add /sbin to your path00:15
itsnotabigtruckbtw ifconfig is deprecated, use ip addr, ip link, etc.00:15
itsnotabigtruckgranted, ifconfig is pretty nifty00:15
jesuschristnever! ifconfig ftw00:15
itsnotabigtruckit gives you most of the useful in one place00:15
teleshoesi like ifconfig too much00:15
messertingah, sbin, thanks :)00:16
jonniusually I just echo 0x25 to enabled file, and that way I still get all the aegis functionality for hashed files, but can freely run any unsigned bins. But normally I just run it as 0x67, since I dont need to run unknown origin files.00:16
itsnotabigtruckjonni: you mentioned on the forums that you already did up an unseal module for yourself...any reason you bothered with that since i assume you can just load your RDC?00:18
jonniitsnotabigtruck: well I have one CE device without RDC, (yes its not needed for my other rdc devices).00:19
itsnotabigtruckah ok00:20
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jesuschristrdc stands for ?00:20
jonniafaik research development certificate00:21
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jesuschristi see00:21
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist: it's something nokiafolks can load onto their phones that overrides most of the security checks00:22
ajalkaneIt's kinda fucked up /home/user/.config is world writable00:23
aquariusJust discovered an odd thing in the N9 browser. See -- a JavaScript implementation of HOTP. The test page shows the same values in every browser I have... except the N9's :(00:23
jesuschristbecause the N9 is a portable skynet :(00:23
messertingBut seriously, on my phone, ifconfig says, my laptop, which is cannot reach the phone. Can anyone suggest why?00:25
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jesuschristcan you go on internet on the phone ?00:25
messertingAhem, hm, my laptop cannot reach another server in my home network either. Problem is probably with my laptop. Maybe my router is hijacked x_x00:26
Corsachmhm, it seems I can't edit *any* contact here00:26
messertingyes, phone is online, internet works00:26
jesuschristare you in the same subnet mask00:26
kimjumesserting, just a random though: is your home network using the same 192.168.1.* subnet?00:26
jonniheh, laptop using neighbors accesspoint with same 192.168.1 prefix00:27
messertingkimju: yep00:27
kimjumesserting, you need to change that00:27
kimju(well, not really, but it is easiest that way)00:27
jesuschristi would try connecting the phone via usb00:27
kimjuof, actually, nevermind. I though that the usb had that subnet00:28
messertingI'm confused00:28
kimjuignore what I said :)00:28
messertingDoubled checked the access point MAC, I'm on the same, not neighbors :)00:29
* messerting will reconnect laptop, brb00:29
jesuschristyou have no choice but to buy a iphone then00:29
messertingjesuschrist: Never!! :)00:30
itsnotabigtruckone of my TAs saw my N9 today00:31
itsnotabigtruckbut was disappointed it wasn't a lumia00:31
jesuschristTA= ?00:32
itsnotabigtruckteaching assistant00:32
itsnotabigtrucki.e. a grad student who does the stuff the professor doesn't want to00:32
messertingoh, though it was Temporary Access (ie. sort of a GF)00:32
ajalkanehaha... disappointed it wasn't a Lumia? That's a major fail.00:33
jesuschristi love when ppl use so much acronyms because it makes everithing so much TW and a bit of GHYX00:33
ajalkaneI've been kind of trying to sell my Lumia at my workplace. But those assholes know too much about tech not to bait to my sales pitch.00:34
itsnotabigtruckajalkane: well, he's a future MS intern (or recent graduate hire?)00:35
itsnotabigtruckso he wouldn't be doing his job if he wasn't :p00:35
jesuschristi offer a bag of chips and 5 euros00:35
ajalkanejesuschrist: you could also offer salvation, come on son of god00:35
jesuschristfor a lumia ? im not that stupid cmon00:35
itsnotabigtruckwell, if i wanted a WP7, the lumia 800 and 900 are the best looking ones on the market00:35
itsnotabigtruckand since WP7s are pretty much all the same, looks are the main factor00:36
itsnotabigtruckthough on the other hand, buying a lumia is voting with your wallet that you like that nokia is going WP700:36
jesuschristsame with android plus or less00:36
itsnotabigtruckalso the lumia 800 was outsourced, even though normally nokia is vertically integrated00:37
ajalkaneThey are... In fact the hardware on Lumia 800 feels better than the white N9 I got. The buttons etc, and of course dedicated camera button. But it's still Windows Phone.00:37
itsnotabigtruck^ maybe the outsourcing produced a better product :p00:37
jesuschristi think that the "start" button kills whatever better hardware it may have00:37
itsnotabigtrucki'll publish my kernel modules package when this is finished00:37
itsnotabigtruckso people can get building kmods for inception00:37
ajalkaneStart button? It's just tiles all the way to hell in Lumia.00:38
itsnotabigtruckthe buttons and excessive bezel at the top does seem to screw up the lumia 800's design00:38
jesuschristseriosly, why nobody made a GUI for the openvpn package ?00:39
itsnotabigtruckthe n9 design concept was all about the 100% screen, no huge bezel, 16:9 form factor00:39
Anssi138i thought it would but it didn't00:39
jesuschristi had to make a damn script00:39
itsnotabigtruckwp7 is not 16:9, and the lumia isn't all screen and has a huge bezel00:39
ajalkaneYeah, n800 is just hastily put together WP on the best Nokia design that was available.00:39
ajalkaneI'd think they will make better fits in the future00:40
itsnotabigtruckbtw i don't get why 16:9 isn't more common for phone/mobile device displays00:40
itsnotabigtrucki don't think 16:9 is a very good idea for PCs, but it's great for handhelds00:40
Anssi138lumia is about the text richness, i don't know do i like the bells and whistles for everyday usage00:40
ajalkaneUmm... not n800, meant Nokia 800 :)00:40
itsnotabigtruckand yet handhelds rarely use 16:9, while it's all you get with laptops/monitors now00:40
itsnotabigtruckthe zune hd was great with 16:9 too00:40
jesuschrist16:10 is better :|00:40
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist: yeah, imo 16:10 is best for desktops and 4:3 is best for laptops00:41
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ajalkaneI liked some apps in the lumia. But the whole feeling of the OS just felt cumbersome to me after harmattan. So I couldn't bear to use it much.00:41
ajalkaneNot to mention the total lack of multitasking00:41
jesuschrist4:3 is the actual pinnacle of usability00:41
ajalkaneAnd hell, you don't even have a terminal in that thing. In the year of 2012 of armageddon!00:42
itsnotabigtruckmy dad has the last thinkpad that was 4:300:42
itsnotabigtruckpretty much the last 4:3 laptop period really00:42
itsnotabigtruckand it ends up being more compact than this 16:10 thinkpad while delivering more res00:42
itsnotabigtruckas wider screen = larger laptop with the same screen diagonal00:43
jesuschrist4:3 matte display!00:43
itsnotabigtruckit's why 13" laptops became inexpensive all of a sudden when the screens went wider and wider00:43
jesuschristnow i need one00:44
itsnotabigtruckbecause with widescreen displays 13" is no longer ultra-compact00:44
itsnotabigtruckhmm, think my kernel build is almost done00:44
jesuschristhow much you paied the lumia ajalkane00:44
ajalkanehmm... even with requesting CAP::chown I can't change the owner of the files in postinst. Operation not permitted. I wonder what binary I should request it to, and how?00:45
messertingI own both a N900 and a N9. My N900 is perfect wrt to user freedom - I am in full control. My N9 has a VERY nice physical feel, and is quicker. What I want is the two merged.00:45
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist: it was probably the free disbursement for launchpad members00:45
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itsnotabigtruckmesserting: well, with inception or openmode you're still in full control00:45
itsnotabigtruckreally, the only thing you'remissing out on is the app base for N90000:45
jesuschristi wish to become a launchpad member of something00:45
ajalkaneOr do I need to change the ownership in the application itself and not in postinst script (which would be annoying)00:45
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itsnotabigtruckthere's a lot of very cool things you can do with the N900 that you still can't with N900:46
itsnotabigtruckaircrack, usb host, etc.00:46
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messertingitsnotabigtruck: what is inception - you have a link?00:46
itsnotabigtruckbut the N900 couldn't do those things out of the box either00:46
itsnotabigtruckyou have to give it time00:46
itsnotabigtruckwhoops, it's compiling modules now00:47
itsnotabigtruckthought it finished :(00:47
jesuschristthe best i could aim for as a sysop is a free ups :D00:47
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jesuschrist"hey chick wanna see my ups? 8)"00:47
messertingitsnotabigtruck: yep, the N900 had very frequent commutiy updates00:48
messertingand still has i guess00:48
itsnotabigtruckhahahaha jesuschrist00:48
itsnotabigtruckmesserting: no reason that can't be done with N9 too00:49
jesuschristdevs get all the nice things :(00:49
itsnotabigtrucki'm still kicking myself for not finding out about launchpad 6 months ago00:49
itsnotabigtruckor the n950 dev device registration 10 or so months ago00:49
messertingI hope to have a community version running on my N9 within a year00:49
itsnotabigtruckfeels like everybody else here benefitted from various awesome promotions, and i come in after it's all over :/00:50
jesuschristim kicking myself for not applying to the n950 dev registration since i heard they gave someone to testers too00:50
jesuschristi could be a marvelous tester holy mary!00:50
itsnotabigtruckthere was basically no visibility it seems unless you were keeping close track of the nokiasphere and i wasn't00:50
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jesuschristthis world is basically unfair00:51
itsnotabigtrucknorly :p00:51
ajalkaneI'm sure itsnotabigtruck getting a N950 would have been a big boost to the community, and a headache to Nokia ;)00:51
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jesuschristAND jesuschrist ajalkane00:51
jesuschristbest tester on the planet00:51
ajalkaneI'm not sure about that... Jesus is a kind of forgiving dude00:52
jesuschristbest perl bash scripter on da market too yo00:52
jesuschristanyway APC sent me its bullshit magazine and im partecipating to win a ... trolley :D00:53
ajalkaneAh... who wouldn't want a trolley!00:53
itsnotabigtrucksomehow i'm on the list for that "magazine" too...not sure if i've read a single one of them00:53
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jesuschristi do also have a touchpad and in fact i think harmattan would have been so much better on a tablet, webos isnt that great00:55
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itsnotabigtruckbtw did the N900 have gui integration for VPNs?00:58
jesuschristnever had one00:58
Sazpaimonso a friend of mine requested my services to fix her broken iphone screen01:00
jesuschristnot having included pptp/openvpn in 1.2 was quite bad imo01:00
Sazpaimonimmediately the memories of trying to replace my N900 digitizer comes to mind01:00
Sazpaimonturns out that you can get replacement iphone digitizers for like, $5 anywhere01:00
Sazpaimonand iphones are held together by a bunch of small phillips heads01:01
jesuschristhmmm so?01:01
itsnotabigtruck < that xperia looks awesome01:01
Sazpaimonand to get a replacement part for any nokia phone, you have to pretty much get one from a chinese factory directly01:01
itsnotabigtruckit's too large though (4.3" screen = gigantic)01:01
itsnotabigtruckwhat happened to the compact phone01:01
jesuschristdont like the desing and honestly i dislike android01:01
itsnotabigtruckimo the N9 is right on the upper bound of how large a phone should be, and these days every android phone worth buying is even larger01:02
SazpaimonI like that home row on that device01:02
Sazpaimoneverything else not so much01:02
itsnotabigtruck"home row", like on a keyboard?01:03
jesuschristthats cool01:03
itsnotabigtruckargh, still no QA approvals on ad-hac01:04
ninnnuitsnotabigtruck: Unfortunately it's Sony. I don't trust Sony enough so that I'd assume they let me make phone calls and install apps tomorrow, too.01:04
itsnotabigtrucknot that it matters if they're going to tear apps for meego down in a couple weeks01:04
itsnotabigtruckninnnu: heh01:04
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, no the home button row01:04
itsnotabigtrucksony has a track record of pretty solid products, but yeah, all the ps3 related drama and their media divisions have kinda tainted them01:05
itsnotabigtruckalso they've never had a very good track record for support01:05
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jesuschristby ps3 related drama you mean the multipe hacking on their servers ?01:05
ninnnujesuschrist: The removal of Other OS01:05
itsnotabigtruckjesuschrist: and trying to sue ps3 hackers, and ^, and so on01:06
itsnotabigtruckgenerally everything that happened related to the ps3 in the last 2 years01:06
Sazpaimon[18:05] <itsnotabigtruck> sony has a track record of pretty solid products, but yeah, all the ps3 related drama and their media divisions have kinda tainted them01:06
Sazpaimondespite them being seperate companies01:06
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: well, it's all sony01:06
itsnotabigtrucksony's CEO is in charge of all of them, and sony's shareholders own all of them01:07
Sazpaimontheyre still considered seperate companies I believe01:07
befordbut they have been allowing people to unlock bootleaders, right?01:07
messertingWell, and the rootkit scandal01:07
ninnnubeford: Do you think they allow people to unlock bootloaders tomorrow, when someone has figured out how to workaround DRM-stuff illegally? :)01:08
itsnotabigtruckSME < SCA < Sony Corporation01:08
itsnotabigtruck SPE < Sony Corporation01:08
itsnotabigtruckthey're all subsidiaries, they all trace up to sony management01:09
ninnnuAnd apparently Sony management hates customers01:09
itsnotabigtruckthat said, they aren't *that* bad - re the ps3 stuff, they didn't act much differently than any other company heavily invested in console games would and does act01:12
itsnotabigtruckthere's really no way to completely avoid that sort of stuff01:13
itsnotabigtruckyikes, this build is taking forever01:14
itsnotabigtrucki just realized it's doing multiple variations of the kernel01:14
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itsnotabigtrucksome combination of normal, debug, ltt, crash01:14
messertingNokia, Elop, WP, Harmattan01:14
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itsnotabigtruckmesserting: hm? :p01:15
Sazpaimon[18:12] <itsnotabigtruck> that said, they aren't *that* bad - re the ps3 stuff, they didn't act much differently than any other company heavily invested in console games would and does act01:16
Sazpaimonmicrosoft doesnt sue people who modify their consoles01:16
Sazpaimonneither does nintendo01:17
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: true, maybe they realized that doing so is a pr disaster01:17
Sazpaimonboth companies just try to compete with the people exploiting the console01:17
Sazpaimonby quickly chruning out updates, and banning people that modify the console to access their special services01:18
Sazpaimonand coming out with new services that you can only use with an unmodified console01:19
Sazpaimonyou know, stuff that makes the company seem like they actually care about the customer experience01:19
itsnotabigtruckhmm, i don't have to do anything special to make the kernel package build for rm-696, right?01:19
Sazpaimonmodify an xbox? Okay, sure, go ahead, but you can't go online with it01:20
Sazpaimonif you cant go online, you cant play any multiplayer games, cant go on netflix, cant use fios tv if you have fios01:20
Sazpaimonyou dont get the convenience of the xbox marketplace01:21
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Sazpaimonbasically they do it by making an unmodified console seem more appealing than a modified one01:22
Sazpaimonwhich is, imo, the right way to do it01:22
Sazpaimonphone manufacturers should take note01:22
Sazpaimonbecause they do just the opposite01:22
Sazpaimonload up their devices with bloat and make a modified, clean version look more appealing01:23
Sazpaimonbut I guess that have less incentive01:23
Sazpaimonthey dont get any money from app sales01:24
itsnotabigtruckyeah, phone manufacturers have a talent for obliterating OSes they put on their phones01:25
itsnotabigtruckfor some reason that doesn't seem to apply so much to vertically integrated oses/phones (iphone, n9)01:25
itsnotabigtruckmaybe they take pride in their os so they don't screw it up with nonsense absolutely no one wants01:26
itsnotabigtruckand ms fixed it by delivering an ultimatum to phone mfgrs01:26
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* messerting Listening to Inception. Scary music :)01:26
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itsnotabigtruckmesserting: awesome music01:29
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jesuschristgood night ppl01:33
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yondiei need help a little bit on my N9 PR 1.205:24
yondieit seems that every picture i took with the official camera application05:25
yondieit will not save05:25
yondieanyone got the same problem?05:25
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ghjgfjghjbnRST38h you around?05:54
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diorahmanHello! Since the I need help to download the debian file for changing mode of notification API06:26
diorahmanplease help me06:26
diorahmanSince the is down06:26
diorahmanI need your help for downloading necessary files for setting the notification api dev06:26
itsnotabigtruckdiorahman: oh hey06:26
itsnotabigtruckthink i d/ld that a while back06:27
itsnotabigtruckhold on06:27
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: thanks!06:27
SpeedEvil - for qtquick people that like the silly cameraphone idea06:28
diorahmanSpeedEvil: yeah, an example of submission:
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: thanks a bunch!06:30
itsnotabigtruckdiorahman: also make sure to get incepted06:30
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: OK06:31
itsnotabigtrucklol, just "ok"? :p06:32
ghjgfjghjbnany former android users present?06:34
SazpaimonSpeedEvil, we're not having this conversation again06:35
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: I didn't follow, pardon me06:36
itsnotabigtruckbtw i'm starting to work on a utility to control aegis settings via inception06:36
itsnotabigtruck(using the unseal kernel module)06:37
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: awesome! right away after this!06:38
SpeedEvilSazpaimon: I don't really disagree with your points. But I don't think you can deny it's a silly product. Dead-end one-off phone, with massive gimmick.06:38
itsnotabigtruckSpeedEvil: well, they say they're going to adapt the tech into future lumias06:38
itsnotabigtruckso presumably there'll be a lumia 9001 pureview06:39
SazpaimonSpeedEvil, the tech is far from one-off06:39
itsnotabigtruckit has over nine thousand jiggapixels!06:39
SpeedEvilThe phone is one-off - Symbina is going away06:39
Sazpaimonyeah in 5 years06:39
Sazpaimonsymbian ia already a liability to nokia yet the continue to develop it06:40
Sazpaimonand theyve continually comitted to the "2016" EOL date06:41
Sazpaimondont know why i quoted that06:42
Sazpaimoni mean06:42
Sazpaimoncan you say that in 2016 android will still be around?06:43
psycho_oreosor even microsoft making huge losses on their mango or whatever windows mobile platform?06:43
Sazpaimonmicrosoft can afford to make huge losses06:45
Sazpaimonremember the original xbox?06:46
Sazpaimonthat was sold at a loss for pretty much its entire life06:46
Sazpaimoneven when it sold well06:46
Sazpaimoni dont know if the 360 is the same06:47
Sazpaimonmaybe with stuff like kinect they break even06:47
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diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: I'm sorry, the deb seems invalid07:07
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: is that because I have 1.2 already?07:08
itsnotabigtruckdiorahman: the notifications one, or inception07:10
itsnotabigtruckif the former, i never actually tried it07:10
diorahmanthe notification, sorry07:10
itsnotabigtruckwhat do you mean by invalid07:10
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you try installing it with dpkg -i07:10
itsnotabigtruckif it fails post the errors on a pastebin07:10
itsnotabigtruckit's possible it has pr1.1-only dependencies or something like that, but that would be surprising imo07:11
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: it's installed but I couldn't find the executable07:14
itsnotabigtruckdiorahman: it installs to /usr/bin/notificationsenvironmentselector07:15
itsnotabigtruckand it didn't fail...that locale stuff happens for anybody with a non-english locale07:15
itsnotabigtrucker, wait, it did fail07:16
itsnotabigtruck"dpkg: requested operation requires superuser privilege"07:16
psycho_oreossure, microsoft can afford to make huge losses, this is why for every little screwups they make they have other products to cover that loss. This is probably also the reason why they're losing to Apple07:16
itsnotabigtruckmake sure to run dpkg from devel-su07:16
itsnotabigtrucki only looked at the line at the end, but forgot that aegis will keep going even if dpkg bombs out07:16
diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: ok devel-su :-)07:16
psycho_oreosglad nokia joined hands with microsoft, together they can be easily forgiven as the much belated movie `dumb and dumber'07:18
ghjgfjghjbnokay so im gonna buy a white n9, is there a general consensus on made in finland or china?07:18
ghjgfjghjbnor no difference07:19
psycho_oreosthere's a channel for n9 discussion, its called #n907:19
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itsnotabigtruckdiorahman: did you get it working?07:42
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diorahmanitsnotabigtruck: yeah! sorry! that was my fault! THANKS!07:46
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Corsachmhm ok so I guess I know why I can't edit any contacts:10:30
CorsacMar 10 09:30:08 (2012) tracker-store[1369]: GLIB MESSAGE Tracker - ---> [107|contacts|2804] Failed, database disk image is malformed10:30
Corsacmaybe restoring pr1.1 backup image to pr1.2 was the issue, though I didn't really have a choice10:32
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CorsacMar 10 09:48:04 (2012) tracker-miner-fs[1419]: GLIB CRITICAL ** Tracker - Could not execute sparql: database disk image is malformed10:48
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Venemo_N950djszapi, good morning10:50
Venemo_N950djszapi, what would you like to see in the logs of IRC Chatter? same things as the chat window?10:51
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AndrewX192What exactly does develsh do?11:32
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djszapiAndrewX192: it opens a shell with extra credentials.11:41
AndrewX192ugh, N9 isn't executing /etc/network/if-up.d/*** on connection11:41
AndrewX192script is chmod +x though11:41
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Venemo_N950what was the command with which I can upgrade to the latest PR 1.2 packages on my N950?12:34
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djszapiVenemo_N950: reboot -u ?12:46
djszapiVenemo_N950: log should do all the stuff...12:46
djszapiand browsable inside the client...12:46
djszapiseparately, and non-separately too...12:46
Venemo_N950djszapi, yeah, that's obvious12:46
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Corsacany idea what can I do to repair a tracker database?13:03
MFaro-TusinoI use N9Quick tweak to add to/from tracker13:05
MFaro-Tusinomaybe that can help?13:05
Corsacwill check, thanks13:06
Corsacis it in ovi store?13:06
MFaro-TusinoNo, look at TMO or N9-apps :)13:09
Corsacdidn't know about n9-apps13:18
Corsacyet another community repo?13:18
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djszapiCorsac: I was wondering when my application appeared there, and got comments without me even knowing...13:20
djszapiI think it is quite nasty from that site providers.13:20
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djszapisince it ruins the image about me not replying; and that is not because I did not want to, but never been informed there is this site.13:20
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MFaro-Tusinocorsac: N9-apps.com13:26
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Corsacyeah, I know how to google :)13:35
CorsacMFaro-Tusino: mhm there's nothing about tracker there afaict13:37
MFaro-TusinoOne sec,13:38
MFaro-Tusinoit is adding/remove folders in tracker13:38
Corsachmhm I'm not sure it'll fit13:41
Corsacwell, I'm not sure it'll do anything about a messed up tracker db13:42
MFaro-Tusinocan't you just delete the db and reboot?13:48
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jonniyou can just say:  "tracker-control --hard-reset"  which removes all databases or use --help-all to see all options14:04
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Corsacyeah but I need my smses :/14:23
CorsacI can export/import my contacts, but that's not possible with smses14:23
jonniI saw a commandline tool in forums which allowed to copy/restore of smses14:24
jonnidont remember the link though, it was about week ago announced14:24
Corsacin tmo?14:24
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Corsacif you remember the thread I'd be interested, a quick search doesn't return anything interesting at first sight14:31
Corsac(on tmo)14:31
Corsacthere's but you can only *store*, not restore14:32
jonniand I though that sync would mean 2 way sync, but I didnt test what it actually does14:35
infobotjonni meant: ah I though that sync would mean 2 way sync, but I didnt test what it actually does14:35
Corsacyou can do some one-way syncs14:35
jonnione way sync is just synonym to copy14:35
CorsacI do have my contacts sync'ed to evolution on my laptop14:36
Corsacif I lose my contacts on N9, I can do a one-way sync from laptop to n9 and have them back14:36
Corsacbut I can't do that with smses14:36
kozziI use Backup function on N9 to backup everything, and when I want to restore ie. only messages,14:42
kozziI just have to delete everything else in the Backup folder14:43
jonniwell I've seen multiple ways to backup smses, let me see if I can dig my mailbox14:43
jonniCorsac: there are tools like transfering n900 commhistory to n9, that can easily be modified to do n9 to n9 backup restore
* djszapi would need N9 to HTC Desire stuff14:46
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Corsacjonni: yeah, but I'm not sure I have the c++ skills needed for that :)14:55
Corsacnor do I have a scratchbox setup here14:55
djszapiCorsac: you can use qtcreator14:56
Corsachow will that help?15:00
Corsac(I have no idea what qtcreator is)15:00
djszapireally ? :)15:00
CorsacI'm not a developer, and certainly not a Qt one :)15:03
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Corsacit's *really* painful that they decided to store actual data to the tracker, since that means corrupted database means data gone15:06
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jonniCorsac: well if you know what your doing, one can always fix the database files. And you can also make backups of messages using dbus-send from commanline (yet again not for newbies).15:23
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Corsacjonni: problem is that I have no idea how to fix the database15:27
Corsacjonni: the sqlite file seems ok, but I think the schema is wrong15:27
Corsac(I mean, it might be the 1.1 schema or something, since it was restored from a pr1.1 backup)15:27
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CorsacI tried to backup/restore using the backup app on pr1.2 but it doesn't work15:27
CorsacI tried to do tracker-control -b foo.db and then tracker-control -o foo.db15:28
Corsacbut no chance either15:28
jonniwell yes its quite likely that backup restore is not working between PR releases, thats why I never do restore if PR release does not match15:29
CorsacI didn't have a choice15:29
CorsacI sent my n9 for repair at PR1.1 and did a backup just before15:30
Corsacwhen I got it back it was on PR1.215:30
jonniI usually just type all the settings by hand from the beginning15:30
CorsacI don't really care about settings15:30
Corsacthe only thing I really care about is sms, I think15:30
Corsacsince I can do manual backup of contacts and of the filesystem15:30
jonniwell yep then your out of luck, or you need to do some fancy coding to get data out of sqlite db and make new importer with c++ or with some fancy script15:32
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Corsachmh, or maybe look at the tracker postinst scripts15:36
Corsacmaybe there's a migration path or something15:36
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Arkenoiit looks like harmattan has zillion ways and reasons to enter "battery drain mode" :-/ fremantle was more predictable15:39
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divan0Does anyone know how to convert QVariant into array/list in QML (JS)? Or how to pass list from PySide to QML without wrapping it to QVariant?15:54
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faenilhey :)16:29
djszapiVenemo_N950: hey...16:30
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faenilguys is it possible to handle a project with more than one pro in the same dir?16:42
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djszapiVenemo_N950: input history would be nice ...16:42
djszapiVenemo_N950: android irc clients I have just tried seem to support that feature.16:43
djszapiand it is quite nice imo.16:43
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faenildjszapi, useful indeed16:43
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diorahmanVenemo_N950: hey17:02
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Venemo_N950hey diorahman17:06
Venemo_N950djszapi, what is input history?17:07
Venemo_N950faenil, yes17:07
djszapiVenemo_N950: type history on your pc17:07
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Venemo_N950djszapi, irc chatter remembers your sent messages right now17:08
djszapihow can I browse them ?17:08
Venemo_N950with the up/down arrows, like any other irc client17:08
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djszapithen it is just buggy17:08
djszapiit does not work for me.17:08
djszapiespecially since there is no "up/arrow" buttons on the VKBD.17:09
jonnithere is if you have right mode17:09
djszapijonni: so how can I get the "right mode" in irc chatter ?17:09
djszapiwithout any hackery ?17:10
Venemo_N950djszapi, you are using the wrong vkb17:10
djszapihuh ?17:10
Venemo_N950the swype vkb has the up/down arrows.17:10
jonnipersonally I use irssi, so have no idea about chatter17:10
djszapiwhich is not the default.17:10
djszapiandI do not planto switch it either.17:10
Venemo_N950it also works with the hwkb on my n95017:10
djszapiweareall happy for that, but the most people have n9 :)17:11
Venemo_N950djszapi, you're gonna get rid of your N9 anyway, so why do you care?17:11
AardVenemo_N950: it has17:11
djszapiand it is not about "me"17:12
Venemo_N950if you have a suggestion about a possible ui for this feature, I'm listening.17:12
djszapiit is about the usability of your software17:12
djszapianyway, I shut up, if you dislike the feedback...17:12
Venemo_N950as I said.17:13
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Venemo_N950if you have a suggestion about a possible ui for this feature, I'm listening.17:14
Venemo_N950I always like feedback.17:14
djszapiVenemo_N950: it isreally not that hard17:15
djszapioption in the settings, if you do not always wanna show an up/down next to the stuff.17:15
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djszapinot sure about the vkbd changing optionally..needs testing.17:18
djszapibut surely, I would not like to make extra effort to get that feature.17:18
Venemo_N950djszapi, so you suggest 2 buttons near the text field?17:19
djszapiI suggest to experiment with ideas like aforementioned.17:20
djszapicheck out how android solved it, etc.17:20
Venemo_N950i don't have an android phone17:21
djszapigoogle /screenshots is your friend.17:21
Venemo_N950but I'll think of something nice :)17:21
djszapitake a look at how others solved it with a lot of people as userbase17:22
djszapiit is worth it...17:22
djszapiyou can avoid many useless iterations that way.17:22
itsnotabigtruckin any case, yeh, ^ v buttons might make sense over by the complete button17:23
itsnotabigtrucki don't know what the android clients look like though17:23
djszapiN9also, they solved the port settings apparently as I suggested previoysly17:27
djszapiN9it is not mandator to the user...17:27
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN9: which client are you thinking of?17:28
itsnotabigtruckwhat's your favorite android irc client17:28
itsnotabigtruckthere's tons of them :p17:28
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: google first result ?17:34
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: 'android irc' produces 3 results on the 1st page17:35
itsnotabigtruckvarying the search could rearrange them all sorts of ways17:35
itsnotabigtruckjust say what you're talking about :|17:35
djszapi1) go to google 2) Type android irc 3) click on the link 4) done17:36
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: also, google result ordering can change dependent on who's doing the search17:38
djszapijust follow the instructions really :)17:39
djszapinot that hard.17:39
* djszapi is off to work17:39
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djszapiall of them support sasl too, but irc-chatter :/17:41
djszapiwell, not a bad change to android :)17:41
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hiemanshudjszapi: sasl as in sending password along with server address?17:50
djszapialso, gnupg would be nice for end-to-end encryption17:53
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pado you know what is the exact wallpaper size on the N9?18:08
djszapiisn't it the full screensize ?18:08
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pano, it+s smaller18:10
paand also in width18:10
djszapiahh you mean the unlocked background18:11
pai mean the locked screen background18:11
pa(on which the clock is shown918:11
djszapilooks full screen to me18:12
djszapialso, you can grab it, and check with an image viewer.18:12
paah right, thanks18:23
paalso, any idea how to play a video over http from the browser without having to copy the link and paste in console?18:23
paand is there any way to install the video-suite from 1.1 on 1.2?18:26
pajust to get rid of that annoying "you cant play such video on this device"18:26
djszapithe API should be backward compatible in theory.18:26
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danielcbitHi Everybody. Does some one know if it is possible to have aegis request context="INSTALL" running commands allowed only for user and system commands simultaneously?18:40
djszapiCould you please rephrase this question ?18:40
djszapiinstall context is for the running maintainer scripts, whatever they run.18:41
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danielcbitI have a series of maintainer scrips. Some remove config files from user .config and other start a deamon of my app using initctl.18:43
itsnotabigtruckwhat do you guys consider the best way to spawn processes in a lightweight c program18:44
itsnotabigtruck(on linux(18:44
djszapidanielcbit: and what is the question ?18:44
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: i think he wants to have some stuff run as root and some stuff run as user18:44
* djszapi is lost18:45
danielcbitdjszapi: after I added the credential requests for making the daemon start, the user files stopped being removed18:45
djszapidanielcbit: please show the maintainer script18:45
danielcbitdjszapi: like the first set of requests for user credentials where lost18:46
djszapiI would like to answer for you in private, ok ?18:46
danielcbitdjszapi: sure18:46
itsnotabigtruckanyone know about the process spawning thing? options seem to be a) fork/exec/waitpid/etc. - complicated, b) glib - a lot of dependency for one thing, c) posix_spawn/waitpid/etc. - also complicated18:48
itsnotabigtruckd) qt - waaaaaay too much dependency for one thing18:48
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itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: got it figured out?19:01
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danielcbititsnotabigtruck: djszapi is helping me. I'm trying to explain my problem19:03
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djszapiokay, so it is not a security vulnerability as I expected19:21
djszapithe problem is that, danielcbit tries to remove user files with the maintainer script, but he also wanna deal with upstart jobs.19:22
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djszapiso my proposal is a user removal script running as root since the /home/user folder is not writable with group id.19:22
* npm watches "enchant me" used in context of android UI :-)19:22
djszapithough, I wonder requesting only uid does not work...19:23
djszapidanielcbit: if you just request uid::user without the groups...19:23
djszapiyouwould be able to remove stuff19:23
djszapiand /etc/init/ is executable by the root group19:24
djszapiactually by everybody here.19:24
djszapianyway, if requesting only uid::user for the maintainer script does not work, put the removal into a separate script, and run it as user19:24
djszapiyou could tentatively hack around the initctl stuff too, from maintainer script run as user, but that is nastier imo.19:25
djszapisince the maintainer script is normally run as root everywhere.19:25
djszapiso just switch to user with a dedicated script, where otherwise needed, if you use commands needed to be run as root from the maintainer script.19:26
itsnotabigtruckah, so have a 2nd script that asserts UID::user19:26
itsnotabigtruckthat's probably a better idea than the evil hack i was thinking of19:26
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: about your thingie....qt is a core part of the harmattan platform....19:27
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: yeah, but it's too much library for a little c utility19:28
itsnotabigtruckso is glib and lots of other things19:28
djszapion a harmattan platform ?19:28
itsnotabigtruck*so is, as in, glib is also a core part19:28
djszapihell, no :)19:28
djszapisince it is the core part of the platform19:28
itsnotabigtruckglib seems like the best idea right now19:28
itsnotabigtruckbut i'm thinking there might be a lighter way19:28
djszapiyou can make your life hard if you have time for doing so :p19:29
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AranelI've created & translated .ts files for my app as described ( ), but how am I going to use that generated .qrc file with python/pyside?21:02
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Venemo_N950good evening22:17
itsnotabigtruckhey Venemo_N95022:19
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Venemo_N950hi itsnotabigtruck22:26
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Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, still not incepted :(22:28
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itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: lol22:33
itsnotabigtruckare you having trouble with it? or just pre-empting me bugging you about it :p22:34
Venemo_N950I have trouble with managing my time. so the honest answer is the latter :P22:34
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Arkenoisucking autocapitalization defeated22:55
Arkenoigood news for all non-latin layout users22:56
Venemo_N950Arkenoi, you found text input settings?22:56
Arkenoione guy sent me email with magic gconf string22:56
Arkenoigconftool-2 -t string -s /meegotouch/inputmethods/hwkeyboard/autocapsdisabledlayouts "(your layout names here)"22:57
djszapiArkenoi: you contribute back to put such things onto a wikipage, right ?22:58
DocScrutinizertesters for open!mode kernel 1.2 needed - please no 'new' applications ;-)23:00
DocScrutinizerplease /query me23:00
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: I dunno if we already got a wiki page like for Customizing_Harmattan, but anyway your hack above should go there :-)23:05
itsnotabigtruckargh, the man page for hexdump is /terrible/23:05
itsnotabigtruckapparently i'm not the only one that finds it so, looking at google23:05
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: there are more trolls ? :p23:06
* djszapi hides23:06
DocScrutinizeropenmode1.2 testers, anybody?23:19
DocScrutinizer(I know it's Saturday, in Europe even evening)23:20
itsnotabigtruckArkenoi Venemo_N950 SpeedEvil ^23:21
itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: interested in testing doc's kernel?23:25
Venemo_N950sorry, nope. I'm not very much into platform hacks nowadays23:27
djszapihahaha :D23:28
djszapiVenemo_N950: getting older ? :p23:28
Venemo_N950djszapi, getting less free time23:29
Venemo_N950+ you guys all know my opinion on things like this.23:29
djszapiVenemo_N950: do not take it this hard, I was just joking :)23:30
Venemo_N950:) okay23:30
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djszapiVenemo_N950: but what opinion, anyway ?23:31
Venemo_N950I think all the effort on hacking Harmattan would be better spent on developing a fully open alternative like Nemo or PA or whatever23:32
Venemo_N950I used to say this even in the Fremantle times, but noone listened to me.23:33
djszapiwell, I would have disagreed in fremantle times.23:33
djszapibut I pretty much agree about it23:34
djszapiexcept... nemo...23:34
djszapiwhich is even worse than ever.23:34
djszapibut yes, mer or PA are certainly more open.23:34
Venemo_N950what do you have against Nemo?23:34
djszapiit is worse than one year ago...23:34
djszapiand I was not happy about it one year ago either...23:34
Venemo_N950worse in what sense?23:35
djszapievery little.23:36
Venemo_N950well, I don't feel like arguing :)23:36
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bluesleethis is an interesting discussion, it will not be easy to pull the mass of users away from the status quo on the n9 as they seem to be happy with the n923:39
djszapiVenemo_N950: have you actually tried it out nowadays and 1-2 years ago ?23:39
Venemo_N950yes I have23:39
djszapibecause this is pretty much said not just by me, but also by close people to that project.23:39
Venemo_N950anyway, having a fully open solution is a lot better in the long run than having a semi-hacked half-closed unportable thing.23:39
djszapiI do not mind having a working less open solution than a useless open.23:40
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: the kernel already *is* fully open23:40
djszapiseeing what nemo achieved in the last 1-2 years, I am a bit worried :/23:40
DocScrutinizeras far as it gets, anyway23:41
Venemo_N950djszapi, and a working + open solution23:41
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, I'm not talking about the kernel now23:41
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: well, you obviously have to start with an open kernel, to base an "open system" on it23:42
djszapiVenemo_N950: what do you mean ?23:42
Venemo_N950 anyway, I'm curious. last time we talked, you said open mode rendered most Harmattan apps useless. is that still the case?23:43
Venemo_N950djszapi, What do I mean by what?23:43
bluesleespeaking as an end user i am only unhappy with the introduced restrictions on the n9 and maybe the fragmentation related to repositories/store ... on the n900 it was perfect, there was no need for an alternative os23:43
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: or how's your suggested approach to 'open $dialer" or whatever, when the kernel+paegis forbids running such stuff on your device?23:43
djszapiVenemo_N950: last post with me highlighted.23:44
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, I would prefer a fully open system23:44
Venemo_N950anyway, I'm awfully tired and sleepy.23:45
Venemo_N950it was nice talking to you guys! :)23:45
Venemo_N950have a nice evening23:46
DocScrutinizerVenemo_N950: it's most probably a misconception that I might have said "all apps rendered useless". Actually Nokia always claimed not any app gets rendered broken by openmode. Under close inspection, it seems some concepts are massively impacted though, e.g. accounts management, lockcode23:46
djszapiVenemo_N950: this early without hacking ? :)23:46
Venemo_N950djszapi :P23:47
Venemo_N950so goodbye :)23:47
DocScrutinizeryou probably can 'fix' accounts for the better part of them, not so for lockcode AIUI23:47
Venemo_N950DocScrutinizer, thanks for explaining23:47
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