IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-03-04

ajalkaneWhat's the best way to install packages to QtCreator so that I can compile for Harmattan? I need, I guess, libcellular-qt1, that I find in the device using apt-cache search... but by default QtCreator does not find the header files when I try compiling it. So I guess I need to somehow install it into the cross-compilation environment?00:02
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itsnotabigtruckajalkane: there's a utility that installs packages into MADDE00:07
itsnotabigtruckso you need to get the -dev packages you need and do that00:07
ajalkaneitsnotabigtruck: but where do I get the -dev packages?00:07
itsnotabigtruckajalkane: and compilation from sdk_sources_pr1.1.iso packages00:08
itsnotabigtruckor various source packages from meego/harmattan git repos00:08
ajalkaneitsnotabigtruck: thanks... but I can't seem to find libcellular-qt1. At least not from that web-page.00:11
itsnotabigtruckwell, first, it won't be called libcellular-qt100:12
itsnotabigtruckit'll be libcellular-qt-dev00:12
ajalkanetrue that, but I can't find any libcellular* from there :)00:12
itsnotabigtrucksecond, it's because it's in the nokia-binaries part00:12
itsnotabigtrucktry this00:12
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itsnotabigtruckthird, use scratchbox00:12
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itsnotabigtruckthere's a lot of problems with the SDK setup, but the common ones are mostly due to people not using the proper tools00:13
ajalkaneah... nokia-binaries was the one that didn't allow me browsing it. How did you find it?00:13
ajalkaneI'm not going to scratch the box until I have to. But sounds like I have to eventually. This would be easier there? apt-get away?00:15
itsnotabigtruckajalkane: yeah, with scratchbox you just apt-get it00:16
itsnotabigtruckthe nokia binaries repo is added by default there00:16
ajalkaneThanks a lot00:16
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: do you have scratchbox updated now?00:19
ajalkaneFucking hell, it compiled now. Great.00:22
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: ?00:23
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: yeah...why do you ask00:24
itsnotabigtrucki don't feel like going and building all those packages :p00:24
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: can you apt-cache info signon-plugins and apt-cache search oauth200:26
ZogG_laptopwanna knwo if they are there00:26
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: hold on, firing up the vm00:29
ZogG_laptopmaybe they are there and than you can download debs only00:29
ZogG_laptopas it would take me ages only to compile scratchbox =)00:29
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: no signon-oauth stuff00:30
itsnotabigtruckyou don't compile scratchbox00:30
itsnotabigtruckyou download an installer from nokia that puts everything on your system00:30
itsnotabigtruckit's not difficult at all to set up, and everyone doing anything needs it eventually :p00:30
itsnotabigtruckthe very fact you're doing something with signond is a sign you should be using scratchbox00:31
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i'm on gentoo here and i compile everything =)00:31
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: that could be a problem, you might need to tear apart nokia's installer and figure out where it downloads the rootstrap and stuff from00:32
itsnotabigtrucknokia only recommends loading it onto debian and ubuntu00:32
itsnotabigtruckmaybe you should use a vm00:32
itsnotabigtruckthat sort of complication is the price you pay for using a source distro :p00:33
itsnotabigtruckalso btw if your blog post is intended to be seen by nokia people, better grammar it up before distributing it too widely00:36
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: english is not my native as well as i think it's useless if Nokia would see it00:47
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: pretty sure they know it by themselves, as there are thousands of msgs like that00:49
ZogG_laptopjust wanted to write it- that's it00:50
ZogG_laptopbtw i had scratchbox, but it takes a lot of space and as i ddin't use it - deleted it00:50
ZogG_laptopi have small harddrive00:50
itsnotabigtruckah yeah00:50
itsnotabigtruckscratchbox is taking up a ton of room on my VM00:51
ZogG_laptop/dev/root        25G   18G  5.9G  75% /00:51
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ZogG_laptop/dev/sdb5        33G   24G  7.3G  77% /home00:51
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: 68gb ssd here00:51
ZogG_laptopi need to check btw why i have 18gbs used00:51
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itsnotabigtrucklet's see if i can do a build00:51
ZogG_laptopas on desktop 10 gb for root is enuf =)00:52
ajalkanehow can scratchbox take that much space?00:52
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: do you need any source packages besides signon and signon-oauth200:52
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itsnotabigtruckajalkane: because it's two complete installations of harmattan00:52
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: meh, don't bother, i doubt it would work as well as lioauth is missing or it's called oauth2plugin00:53
itsnotabigtruckincl tons of dev stuff00:53
itsnotabigtruckand liboauth-dev is in the scratchbox repo too00:53
ajalkaneman, how come developing stuff take this much space nowadays :P00:53
ajalkaneLuckily I bought a 2TB drive a while ago so I can afford to install scratchbox when the need arrives00:54
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i tried to trcik it and just copied sigon-lugins/sigon/* to sysroot00:55
ZogG_laptopgot other error00:55
ZogG_laptopsomething missing =)00:55
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: just tell me which packages you need00:55
ZogG_laptopajalkane: i can do it on desctop as i have about 4 TB there, but comp there is slow =\00:55
itsnotabigtruckdon't manually copy header files in, that's inelegant00:55
itsnotabigtruckand a recipe for screwed up builds00:56
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: if i would know, i think liboauth and singon-plugins00:56
ZogG_laptopi don't know if they depend on others like singond singon-qt00:56
ZogG_laptopmardy would know as he is dev =)00:56
ZogG_laptopdev-embedded/scratchbox2- what is that?00:56
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: how much longer will you be available01:00
itsnotabigtruckwant to make sure you're still here when this is done01:00
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i'm gona go offline for an 30 min/ hour01:00
ZogG_laptopand than gona come back01:01
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: btw do you have jabber?01:01
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: yup01:04
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itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop ZogG_N9: got my xmpp address?01:09
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ZogG_N9_itsnotabigtruck, oops had to run away, would be online as get to friends house01:09
ZogG_N9_itsnotabigtruck, nope01:10
itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9_ ZogG_laptop: anyway, i have the build going01:10
itsnotabigtrucki sent the JID to both your laptop and n901:10
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itsnotabigtruckit's kinda strange how harmattan has both APS and signon - two different schemes for protecting local data01:12
itsnotabigtruckbuild is almost done for signon01:15
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itsnotabigtruckZogG_N9_ ZogG_laptop: you better do something cool with those :P01:41
itsnotabigtruckload all the packages that don't have doc, dbg, test, or example in the name into your dev environment01:42
itsnotabigtruckand if you copied headers in manually, clean those out first01:42
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i copied backups =)01:46
itsnotabigtruckbtw ZogG_laptop: consider trying to harmattanize the imgrup ui a little more01:48
itsnotabigtruckthe carousel at the top with the sections looks kinda iphone style01:48
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: waiting for wazd to have free time01:48
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i would like to have feedback mockups suggestions01:49
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: do you use it btw?01:49
itsnotabigtruckalso the nokia pure font should be used everywhere (don't use swiss for ui elements)01:49
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: i didn't set font01:49
itsnotabigtrucki noticed it a while back, didn't end up installing it01:49
itsnotabigtruckalways set the font01:49
itsnotabigtruckthe font is set incorrectly by default01:49
itsnotabigtrucki think you can set the font according to the theme01:50
itsnotabigtruckthat should put it on nokia pure01:50
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itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: ping01:56
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ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: sorry02:24
ZogG_laptopwe reseted router02:24
ZogG_laptopiphone doesn't support wpa2? =)02:24
ZogG_laptopn9 connects fine02:25
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: did you ever send me an xmpp request02:25
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itsnotabigtruckalso man, isn't it the middle of the night in .il?02:26
Venemothis bug is just friggin annoying02:27
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Venemoitsnotabigtruck, it doesn't only happen after you click on the area and then the field, but sometimes even when you start typing02:28
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: yeah02:28
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VenemoI guess this is a bug in the vkb. it does not happen when I use the hwkb02:30
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Venemoitsnotabigtruck, I've written an ugly workaround02:47
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: heh02:50
itsnotabigtruckany idea why this is actually happening though?02:50
itsnotabigtruckthe error correction feature obviously isn't supposed to grab text from other parts of the app02:50
itsnotabigtruckit shouldn't even *know* about that text02:50
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Venemoitsnotabigtruck, agreed, but I haven't got a clue.02:52
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, maybe when achipa or vivainio are around, I will be able to ask them02:53
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: so i'm guessing there's a root cause that needs to be found02:53
itsnotabigtruckjust swapping the old text back in probably isn't a real solution02:53
itsnotabigtruckor whatever the w/a would end up being02:53
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, yeah, it's that ugly...02:54
VenemoI have no clue what the root cause might be.02:55
Venemoif I set the TextArea's enabled to false, the bug won't happen, but obviously then text selection or links wouldn't work.02:55
Venemoin any case, I will release a new version with the current fixes02:55
Venemothis bug has driven poor djszapi nuts, so I think he'll be happy to find out the solution :)02:56
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Venemoitsnotabigtruck, do you feel like trying? 'wget'03:00
itsnotabigtruckbtw that server is giving that deb mimetype > application/x-troff-man03:01
VenemoI haven't a clue, perhaps fedora people don't like .debs?03:01
Venemoanyway, open a terminal, type 'wget' and you'll have it03:01
itsnotabigtruckyeah, just loaded it03:02
Venemo_N950I changed the tool bar appearance for ZogG_laptop03:03
Venemo_N950also added some more prettiness for you guys :)03:03
itsnotabigtruckooh, i like the changes to the accounts screen03:03
* beford tries03:04
Venemo_N950ssl is fixed too03:04
Venemo_N950'll try03:04
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itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: doesn't seem to be connecting *without* ssl now03:05
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, it connects for me :)03:05
Venemoanyway, I need to get some sleep, so I wish you a good evening03:09
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, if you find new bugs, we can talk about it tomorrow :)03:10
VenemoI found some...03:10
Venemoanyway, bye! :)03:11
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Venemo_N950scrollback is still buggy sometimes, and so are the notifications03:13
itsnotabigtruckoh yay, i'm connected03:14
itsnotabigtruckwith ssl this time, no idea about non-ssl03:14
ircn9im not using ssl03:14
Venemo_N950beford :)03:15
itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: hmm03:16
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, hmm?03:16
itsnotabigtrucklooking at the existing nokia stuff on the phone03:16
itsnotabigtruckthe irc server entry should be something like03:16
itsnotabigtruck[O  ] Server                   >03:16
itsnotabigtrucki.e. switch on left, and a > on the right to indicate you can go deeper03:16
itsnotabigtruckthat's what e.g. the nokia account config screen does03:17
Venemo_N950heh, switch is on the right, everywhere in Harmattan03:17
itsnotabigtruckactually on the nokia account config screen, it's both :p03:17
itsnotabigtruckthere's one at the right on top, and two on the left below03:17
itsnotabigtruckbeford: hm?03:18
Venemo_N950beford, something wrong?03:18
befordit doesn't seem to autoscroll when its on thumb mode right?03:18
itsnotabigtruckhowever that causes an issue with my proposal to put a little connecting indicator next to the switch03:18
Venemo_N950beford, yep, scrolldown is buggy03:18
itsnotabigtruckbecause i was imagining something like Server                  @ [  O] >03:19
Venemo_N950I'll fix that tomorrow03:19
itsnotabigtruckwhere @ is the little twirly thing03:19
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, mhm03:19
itsnotabigtruckit seems like a ui design handbook for harmattan is desperately needed03:19
itsnotabigtruckthere already is one but it's kind of a joke03:20
Venemo_N950yay, found another bug03:20
itsnotabigtruckit seems like all you can do is look at nokia stuff and guesstimate what's harmattanest03:20
Venemo_N950I think the app just looks good03:20
Venemo_N950all it needs is a new channel switcher03:21
itsnotabigtruck < has an example of switches on left03:21
befordwhat are you using Venemo_N950 to display the IRC text?03:22
itsnotabigtruckhmm, how about this layout03:22
befordwhat qml component  I mean03:22
itsnotabigtruck[  O] Server                    @ >03:22
itsnotabigtruckswitch on left, throbber on right03:22
itsnotabigtruckalso i think, since the changes to a server can't be cancelled, instead of the Save/Cancel there should just be a back button at the bottom03:23
itsnotabigtruckhowever, the problem with that is that it's possible to enter an invalid config03:23
itsnotabigtruckand you can't block someone going back, while you can block someone pressing save03:24
itsnotabigtruckso because of that, then it would be a good idea to keep it the way it is but add a cancel button03:24
itsnotabigtrucklike in the contacts app (same ux page, scroll down)03:25
Venemo_N950beford, TextArea03:26
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, how do you enter an invalid config?03:26
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Venemo_N950hey faenil :)03:32
faenilfast Venemo_N950 :D03:32
Venemo_N950faenil, there's a new IRC Chatter release, I'm testing it :)03:33
faenilwait, aren't u the author of irc chatter? X03:33
faeniloh ok xD03:33
faenilnope ahah03:35
Venemo_N950anyway, I'm going to sleep now :)03:36
faenilgn :D03:36
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Venemo_N950good morning :)09:14
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Venemo_N950morning djszapiN9 :)09:17
Venemo_N950djszapiN9, the bug is somewhere is the Harmattan input method. :(09:19
djszapiN9the random text insertion issue is imo worse in the new irc-chatter version09:19
Venemo_N950but I managed to workaround it09:19
itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: oh noes09:20
itsnotabigtruckis it in maliit?09:20
itsnotabigtruckif so it ought to be possible to patch it09:20
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, i dunno where exactly09:20
djszapiN9Venemo_N950, as i said, the bug remained, and even worse09:21
itsnotabigtruckalso, it seems like no one's been filling out the QA forms on apps for meego09:21
itsnotabigtrucki don't see any approvals recently on any app09:21
Venemo_N950djszapiN9, in v0.2.91?09:21
djszapiN9what i type actually remains in the input field.09:21
Venemo_N950ah yes09:21
djszapiN9plus the bug still happens.09:22
Venemo_N950the workaround brings its own bugs.09:22
itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: i'm still curious, how did you isolate it to the text input machinery09:22
djszapiN9also, show me the simple test case for the maliit bug.09:22
itsnotabigtrucki'm still wondering why it knows about the html in the chat display area09:22
itsnotabigtruckit might actually be memory corruption of some sort09:22
Venemo_N950anyway, the only real fix would be to set the TextArea to disabled.09:23
itsnotabigtrucke.g. the html text for the chat display being copied over other stuff trashing it09:23
Venemo_N950that will make it lose text selection and link clicking functionality09:23
djszapiN9Venemo_N950, completion does work either09:23
djszapiN9this version is a bit useless :)09:24
Venemo_N950djszapiN9,  know, as I said, the workaround brings its own bugs... I only noticed it after the release. :(09:24
djszapiN9you did not make any twsts before releasing ?09:24
itsnotabigtruck@everyone remember to always fill out the qa sheet on an apps for meego app if it works :)09:24
Venemo_N950yes, it does not always happen09:25
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Venemo_N950if I restart the app, it works correctly for some time too09:25
djszapi100% reproducable here.09:25
Venemo_N950anyway, this is way too ugly a workaround for my taste09:25
djszapishow a simple test code for the bug in question.09:26
Venemo_N950I'll just disable the text area until the root cause of the bug is found09:26
Venemo_N950all right09:26
Venemo_N950turning on the ideapad09:26
djszapi(this bug did not exist earlier btw)09:27
Venemo_N950btw, scrollback is buggy too09:27
djszapi(it came into existence from certain release)09:27
Venemo_N950close the app, go to the text input settings, disable error correction, restart the app09:27
Venemo_N950that made it disappear for both me and itsnotabigtruck09:28
djszapiwhat I mean is a very simple test code.09:29
djszapibecause I see this bug nowhere else in the platform.09:29
Venemo_N950doin it right now09:29
djszapieven in the other irc application from Ovi I used.09:29
djszapior even in older chatter versions.09:29
Venemo_N950hrm, okay09:29
Venemo_N950you are right09:30
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Venemodjszapi, I'm taking your advice :)09:38
djszapiwhich one ?09:41
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Venemodjszapi, I'm making a simple testcase which demonstrates the problem09:43
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Venemodjszapi, it seems that a simple Page with a TextArea and a TextField on it can trigger the issue09:46
Venemodjszapi, if the TextArea is not read only, it triggers the bug all by itself09:48
VenemoI click inside the text area randomly and it enters garbage from the memory09:48
djszapiI cannot reproduce it outside your application sorry.09:49
djszapinot even with earlier versions.09:49
Venemodon't worry, I can09:49
Venemoshall I send you the simple test case?09:49
djszapiI also have a TextArea in my application, and it never occurs.09:50
Venemodo you use it in RichText mode,09:50
Venemoit doesn't happen if I turn rich text mode on.09:51
Venemoeh, sorry09:51
Venemoit doesn't happen if I turn rich text mode off09:51
djszapiI do not have time to check that out, sorry.09:51
Venemookay, do you have the time to run the simple test case?09:52
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, good news: it does not happen if I use TextEdit instead of TextArea, so it's a bug in qt-components probably.09:55
djszapiI am pretty sure it has nothing to do with VKBD09:57
djszapior maliit09:57
Venemoindeed it doesn't09:57
djszapiwell yo usaid that above..09:57
VenemoI said:  good news: it does not happen if I use TextEdit instead of TextArea, so it's a bug in qt-components probably.09:57
djszapi"The bug is somewhere is the Harmattan input method."09:58
Venemofortunately, that was a false assumption.09:59
Venemosince the bug disappears when I set "error correction" to OFF in the input method, I assumed the bug was there. after making a test case, it seems to be a rather awful bug in the TextArea component when it's set to RichText mode and "error correction" is ON.10:00
VenemoI was hoping that I wouldn't have to hack into the TextArea component, as it's kinda complex10:01
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djszapiuse TextField.10:02
djszapibtw, TextArea is not that complex at all.10:03
VenemoTextField is single-line10:03
djszapiwhich is what I type with one post.10:04
Venemoindeed, but that component has to contain all posts10:04
djszapiit is not a bug in the textarea10:04
djszapiit is the bug in the one line thingie10:04
djszapirzr: could you please add me as the maintainer of the repository ?10:05
djszapiI would like to push some applications in there /right now/.10:05
Venemodjszapi, wrong10:07
Venemodjszapi, if I set the TextArea to be not readonly, the garbage gets entered there, not into the TextField.10:07
djszapithe bug is in the one line10:08
Venemono, it is not10:08
djszapiand not in the big window.10:08
djszapiyes, it is.10:08
Venemothe test case contains a single TextArea component10:08
djszapias I said, it happens without TextArea10:08
djszapieven in the user list stuff10:08
Venemothat's for the same reason.10:09
djszapithat is a one liner stuff10:09
djszapinot an area10:09
Venemoand the bug is not there.10:09
Venemoif you are interested in running my test case, you will see why.10:09
djszapitoo distractive for me.10:10
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djszapirzr: Also, I propose to move out your repository entirely.10:11
djszapiX-Fade: can I get access to this repository: or shall I just create a Project:Harmattan instead ?10:12
djszapiit would be more feasible place than in someone's home directory.10:12
djszapiUnfortunately when I proposed rzr's home directory, I did not have this  thorough understanding.10:12
Venemodjszapi, do you have 15 minutes for me? I'd like you to glance at my test case.10:17
djszapilbt to you, too. I would like to get access to the Harmattan Project repository, if possible, or let me create a new project repository for Harmattan. It is not the best place to have the repository in someone's home folder.10:17
djszapiVenemo: no, sorry10:17
Venemodjszapi, please.10:17
djszapilbt X-Fade I have just faced the issue, others also organize these things into Projects, like KDE, Fedora, Ubuntu, Meego and so on. They do not bother with local clone in someone's home folder.10:18
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djszapilbt X-Fade
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Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, ping :)10:29
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Venemodjszapi, hm, I found a working solution :)10:33
Venemodjszapi, thanks for your advice, you were right: making a test case really made debugging this thing easier.10:33
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djszapiVenemo: I hope for a release where I can use irc-chatter without always deleting the spam..11:56
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nemo-runo rus lang((((12:42
ieatlinti'm wearing pants12:43
djszapiieatlint: at least pink ?12:43
ieatlintsadly, no12:44
nemo-ru no rus lang12:46
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djszapinemo-ru: for your N9(50) ?12:47
djszapiisn't that cyrillic one in the settings that ?12:47
djszapiI am afraid you are in the wrong channel.12:49
djszapiare you looking for #maemo, or perhaps #nemomobile ?12:49
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ieatlintyeah... harmattan != meego =! nemo12:50
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djszapiдобро пожаловать ...12:53
RST38hUnicode alert12:55
RST38hDestroy. DESTROY.12:55
ieatlintyeah, if a language can't fit into ascii, it's not worth learning12:57
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djszapior make an ascii variant like the translators for the "grub" translations.12:58
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qronichey everybody! itsnotabigtruck said yesterday that since PR1.2 booting with not original kernel turns N9 into open-mode. Does it mean that we no longer can delete /var/malf with that "Fixing MALF state method" on wiki?13:00
djszapiyou can.13:01
qronicwithout turning the phone into open-mode?13:01
djszapiMALF should usually be recoverable.13:01
djszapiit gets borked only in case serious issues.13:02
djszapiso I think it is like previously.13:02
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rzri guess we still need the harmattan:libs or middleware ...13:36
djszapirzr: if you mean the unresolvable stuff, then nope.13:36
djszapithat is just all about configuration, that I could eventually do.13:36
djszapialso, you did not still provide me access to that repository..13:37
djszapiAlthough, as far as I see, it is just a temporary place in my vision.13:37
rzrso you want to use home:rzr:harmattan for depbuilding i guess ?13:38
rzrlet me add you13:38
djszapiMer, MeeGo, Ubuntu, Fedora, Debian, Nemo, Plasma Active and so forth managed it :)13:38
djszapiI am sure, we are able, too.13:38
rzri can setup it13:39
rzrjust wasnt sure13:39
djszapicool, thanks.13:39
rzrdjszapi: nice glasses13:39
rzrlet me add a 'harmattan' repo then13:39
djszapi -> once, this bug is resolved, we both have access to the Harmattan project repository.13:40
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gri"Rescuing software update. Please do not interrupt." while booting - what is this?13:46
djszapigri: terror attack13:46
gridjszapi: The nokia gtalk video installer seems to do funny things :) After two reboots it stopped and seems expected by that package. Really scary :)13:48
djszapiI saw scarier things in horror movies :)13:49
rzrgri: i installed flowlessly here , but i didnt tried video call yet13:49
djszapigri drop me a video call once you are done :)13:49
djszapirzr you can try to call me13:49
gridjszapi: I did not have a shower yet :)13:49
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grirzr: The video call thingy was updated today on my phone, then the message appeared13:50
JareI got the same message, when I updated it yesterday13:50
* djszapi did get any updates..13:51
djszapidid not*13:51
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bluesleejonni: ping13:53
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: why didn't you ask internally if you have access to Nokia bug tracker?14:55
djszapihuh ?14:56
ZogG_laptopthe request for harmattan repo14:56
djszapiIt has nothing to do with Nokia.14:56
ZogG_laptopthan what harmattan repo are you tlking about?14:57
djszapihave you actually read the report ?14:57
ZogG_laptopchecking url now14:58
ZogG_laptopoh, it's x-fade's15:00
DocScrutinizerqronic: unsigned kernels always were supposed to start HARM in open mode, alas it didn't work until Nokia fixed NOLO bootloader eventually, AFAIK. Anyway you also never could fix MALF without using openmode for that, as device would enter MALF in secure mode immediately on boot ;-D15:15
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Venemoitsnotabigtruck, ping15:16
DocScrutinizer(unless maybe you got R&D cert on your device, which may block MALF even in normal secure boot.... or not, I dunno as no mere mortal has access to R&D cert)15:17
DocScrutinizer(no access to R&D cert) an extremely hostile decision of Nokia platsec and product damagers15:18
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qronicDocScrutinizer, IIRC if you got r&d cert you can create /var/nomalf and it won't look for /var/malf at all15:33
qronicDocScrutinizer, > you also never could fix MALF without using openmode for that; right, but booting into that "mount all the fs mode" isn't actually a full boot15:34
qronicand seems like that "mount all the fs into my linux" boot now taints kernel forever into open-mode, if I understood itsnotabigtruck correctly15:36
DocScrutinizerqronic: sounds about right, yeah15:37
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DocScrutinizerexcept the part that I parse like "you can't delete /var/malf even with R&D cert in normal aka secure mode" which of course isn't correct15:38
DocScrutinizerqronic: that "taint stock kernel forever" part is highly unclear, at least to me. It seems to me itsnotabigtruck is doing a lot of handwaving regarding this15:39
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qronichope so15:40
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DocScrutinizerit however seems a sound story that updating PR to next release version shouldn't be done in openmode, as that might result in a revision tag signed with openmode cert and then stored to secure storage (in BB5 probably). *MIGHT*!  If that actually is what's going on then you basically nailed your system to open mode15:42
DocScrutinizersimply because normal/secure mode couldn't verify the OS version tag then against the securemode cert, and consequently would switch to openmode even with a signed kernel15:43
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: what's up15:45
itsnotabigtruckjust woke up15:45
DocScrutinizerhowever this rewrite of OS version tag only shall take place when you do a system upgrade, not when you boot any arbitrary kernel, especially when that kernel is only loaded to RAM and not flashed15:45
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, hey! I created a fixed version. do you feel like trying it out? I also added some more of your ideas :)15:48
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: ok, here's the explanation15:49
itsnotabigtruckthere's a bitfield for "security info" in the calibration data region15:49
itsnotabigtruckthat bitfield contains a "trusted bit"15:49
itsnotabigtrucknow, ever since the beginning, flashing something that the phone-side flash logic doesn't like will set it to off15:50
itsnotabigtruckand completely flashing everything will set it to on15:50
itsnotabigtruck(if everything = nokia legit)15:50
itsnotabigtruckhowever until PR1.2 that bit wasn't used for anything15:51
itsnotabigtrucknow starting with PR1.2, a) NOLO checks if the trusted bit is off, and if so, it acts as if the kernel was unsigned15:51
itsnotabigtruckb) NOLO turns the trusted bit off whenever booting into open mode ever (including doing so just one time e.g. with the rescue kernel)15:52
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itsnotabigtruckoh, also, it turns out that starting with PR1.2 you can't update nolo/swcert/kernel from userland if you're in open mode15:53
itsnotabigtruckthe net effect of that being that if you try to SSU from open mode, it'll skip all the flashing parts at the end15:53
itsnotabigtruckso there you go - that's the info, no handwaving15:54
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, :)15:56
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: cool, just a moment15:56
Venemoitsnotabigtruck :)16:01
itsnotabigtruck interesting, at&t is going to start going 3g+ only16:01
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: thanks a lot for this good explanation :-)16:01
qronicNokia is bad :(16:02
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: oh nice, you implemented the changes to the connect screen layout16:02
DocScrutinizerpretty bad that clearing trusted mode bit forbids flashing any firmware that could set this bit to 1 again :-(16:02
qronicwe need a way to unlock kernel in normal mode, find a way to upload our own certsw and flash our own kernels, so bootloader will think it's an original kernel and will run in normal mode16:03
itsnotabigtruckqronic: well, no, they're not bad, they're fighting their side in the security war16:03
qronicif that's even possible, I don't know how certsw are generated16:03
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: morning16:03
itsnotabigtruckyo ZogG_laptop16:04
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: where's that bit? in CAL NAND partition, or in BB5 (aka modem)?16:04
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: CAL16:04
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, yeah :)16:04
DocScrutinizeris CAL hashed?16:04
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: maybe? it's also read-only apparently if you boot into open mode16:04
DocScrutinizer/dev/mtd is r/o?16:05
DocScrutinizereven for mtdtools?16:05
itsnotabigtruckno idea about that, but isn't it possible for bootloaders to partially lock nand devices16:05
itsnotabigtruckthat sort of technique's been used forever16:05
dm8tbr_some_ NAND allows to be partitioned logically and enforce RO16:05
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: when you highlight me it show as normal color msg and not highlight? magic?16:06
DocScrutinizeryeah but there are tools to unlock such locks16:06
ZogG_laptopVenemo: highlight me please16:06
DocScrutinizerhi dm8tbr btw, long time no see16:06
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: meh, don't remind me. been on business trips for the better part of the last 6 weeks16:06
itsnotabigtruckaw, that's no good16:07
itsnotabigtruckwell, actually, it's kinda cool16:07
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itsnotabigtrucktravel :D16:07
DocScrutinizerre my mail to you about snowball and STE: I'll not be at workstation for next 3 days - code quality training full 3 days... :-S16:08
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: can't hadle post of my data now =)16:08
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: haven't run into the keyboard bug yet16:08
VenemoZogG_laptop, :) ZogG_N9 :)16:08
ZogG_laptopVenemo: yur highlight is okay16:09
ZogG_laptopprobably itsnotabigtruck using some kind of sorcery16:09
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: it does seem to be slightly sluggish when going in and out of the keyboard16:09
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: well, I got some answers out of them. IIRC it boiled down to implicitly admitting, that they can't fix licensing due to probably 3rd party IP.16:09
itsnotabigtrucknot sure if that's unavoidable or it's possible to speed it up16:09
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, that part hasn't changed :)16:09
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: still sucks16:10
DocScrutinizerhmmm :-/ same as it ever was16:10
itsnotabigtruckatm there's a delay to react, the sliding animation, and then a delay before the keys actually appear on the keyboard16:10
itsnotabigtruckit seems like in a lot of other apps the keyboard appears at the speed of light, minus the animation16:10
itsnotabigtruckthat is, not counting the animation time16:10
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, there's nothing I can do about that. it appears fast on my N950 :)16:10
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: the .h file would need to be stubbed in a legal compliant way (they claim proprietary also for the .h)16:10
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, however I was able to fix your animation bug (when the server settings sheet goes away)16:11
DocScrutinizerI don't think this stub can get stubbed even more16:11
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: have you ever used oauth? not in signon plugin?16:11
DocScrutinizerhell I could learn it by heard and rewrite it in a clean room16:11
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: nope16:12
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: then it will still be impossible to compile a system against this in an automated OSS compliant way16:12
DocScrutinizerwhen I rewrite it 'in my own words', with all the needed defines in it? why?16:12
DocScrutinizerthe .h that is16:12
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: you'll probably need to write an accounts plugin for this too16:13
itsnotabigtruckso you can have an "imgur" account type in the menu hooked up to the credentials stored with signon16:13
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: dunno, you can discuss that with that STE lawyer who was CC16:13
ZogG_laptopeasy to say16:13
DocScrutinizererr so legally impossible, not technically?16:14
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, I also added a BusyIndicator to the manage servers page as you asked16:14
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, it looks neat now16:14
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: i noticed the busyindicator appears just before it goes to the other connecting screen though :p16:14
ZogG_laptopitsnotabigtruck: as i get plugin can be part of application right?16:15
Venemoitsnotabigtruck, yeah, that's by design16:15
ZogG_laptopmardy: ping16:15
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: no, it's a separate component16:15
itsnotabigtrucki'm not 100% sure you have to write code for it though16:15
itsnotabigtruckyou write some xml files, and those can hook into some binaries you do write, iirc16:15
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DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: "/* for compiling all this on my FPGA prototype I need the following defines. You're free to use/copy/mangle this any way you like. (there's been rumour somebody had success with abusing this for a Nova based mali gfx chipset ;-> ) */  - I'd like to know who in STE would want to start a legal case against that, and based on what16:18
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: that's a question best directed to their lawyer ;)16:19
DocScrutinizernah, that's a question that MY lawyer will answer to my ful satisfaction16:19
DocScrutinizeras this isn't any cryptographic shit, not even US laws can outlaw a .h with 5 structs and 20 arbitrary consts16:22
DocScrutinizerunless the var names have "mali" or "ericsson" in it16:23
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mardyZogG_laptop: pong16:24
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ZogG_laptopmardy: sup16:31
ZogG_laptopmay i query you?16:31
mardyZogG_laptop: sure16:31
pais there somewhere a list of official, semi official and unofficial repos for harmattan?16:48
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itsnotabigtruckpa: there's a few of them...not sure if there's any good ones16:54
itsnotabigtruckthey're pretty trivial to list16:54
itsnotabigtruckofficial: default harmattan repositories16:54
itsnotabigtrucksemi-official: apps for meego, apps for meego testing16:54
itsnotabigtruckunofficial: rzr community repo, nokia platform sdk repo16:55
itsnotabigtruckthat last one's unofficial because it's not meant for use with the N916:55
itsnotabigtruckbut it does contain some useful stuff that works16:55
itsnotabigtruckexcept that last one also doesn't work in PR1.2 because they put a bug in the aegis installer16:55
paah i see16:56
pawhat useful stuff are there?16:56
pa(that i could install by hand f.ex)16:56
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itsnotabigtruckpa: unfortunately there isn't much in apps for meego, though you might as well add it16:58
itsnotabigtrucki've been putting my packages in there (calendarrr, milkytracker, ad-hac)16:58
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itsnotabigtruckif you add apps for meego, make sure to include the testing repo too - almost nothing is in the main apps for meego repo16:59
itsnotabigtruck6 people have to fill out a qa questionnaire for an app to go from testing into main, and few people have been doing those16:59
paah i see16:59
itsnotabigtruckif you add the rzr or platform sdk repos, make sure not to ever do an apt-get dist-upgrade17:00
itsnotabigtruckthey include some seemingly-newer packages and if you indiscriminately upgrade everything apt will do strange things to your system17:00
paso only upgrade is fine, right?17:00
itsnotabigtruckpa: i don't think there is an upgrade, iirc17:02
itsnotabigtrucknm, there is17:02
pai mean apt-get upgrade17:02
itsnotabigtruckdon't use that either17:02
itsnotabigtruckif you ever see anything wanting to remove mp-harmattan-xxx-pr, or a very long list of packages that are autoremovable17:02
itsnotabigtruckSTOP RIGHT THEN17:03
itsnotabigtruckotherwise you're safe17:03
pagood strategy17:03
itsnotabigtruckbecause what will happen is that you remove the mp-harmattan-xxx-pr package, and apt will then decide that the entire system can be uninstalled safely17:03
itsnotabigtruckwhich will then happen next time you try to install something through the gui17:03
pabut in general, is some sort of repo list available somewhere? i mean url17:04
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itsnotabigtruckpa: not sure17:05
itsnotabigtrucklike i don't know any urls off hand17:05
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paok, i can try to google for them17:06
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itsnotabigtruck^ any idea how that person put the date in the status bar?17:22
Venemo_N950new irc-chatter seems to be relatively bugfree17:22
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I do not think he did17:23
paits a pity that on N9 skype contacts are not yet merged into the normal contacts17:23
djszapihe may have disabled, and used his own one.17:23
paat least in 1.117:24
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, that would mean that somewhere there's a hacked sysuid with that sort of stuff, right?17:25
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Jareitsnotabigtruck: by editing the clock format string in /usr/share/blanco/meegotouch/sysuid/style/statusarea.css17:28
itsnotabigtruckyeah, looks like it's an n9 quick tweak thing17:29
JareI wouldn't use those quick tweak shell scripts atm17:31
JareI mean before they've been tested with pr1.217:31
ZogG_laptopJare: there is version for 1.2 already17:32
itsnotabigtruckbtw any idea where the search engine URLs are stored?17:32
itsnotabigtruck\/usr/share/applications/web-search-google.desktop < sounds promising17:33
itsnotabigtruckw00t, just enabled SSL for google search17:34
virtualdi replaced the search engines with ixquick, startpage and duckduck go, all ssl17:36
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: not sure what you mean.17:36
rzrvirtuald: on harmattan ?17:36
virtualdyeah pr1.117:37
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: i didn't realize you could customize it that much from just the css17:37
rzrgood is there a package for doing this ?17:37
itsnotabigtruckso i thought maybe that person was using a modded system-ui that had a different status bar17:37
itsnotabigtruckbut that wasn't the case so nm17:37
virtualdrzr: developer-mode ;)17:37
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: both are possible.17:37
itsnotabigtruckit might be a good idea to make search engine packages17:37
itsnotabigtrucke.g. one per engine17:37
virtualdrzr: just change the file itsnotabigtruck mentioned and the other search-engine*17:38
rzror paranoid-mode17:38
rzryes i know to hack system files17:38
rzrbut i fell this should not be the user to do that ...17:38
virtualdyou mean it should be easier?17:39
djszapirzr: why not ? people think here it is a hacker phone ;)17:39
virtualdthen make a package :)17:39
itsnotabigtruckwell, i think it's a hacker phone but that the hacks should be done elegantly :p17:39
virtualdo i've got a hacker phone too, with open source baseband software (osmocom)17:39
rzrI can provide an editor for that :)17:39
djszapiZogG_laptop: you did not vote for 24983, mmmh...17:40
djszapi(just read it)17:40
virtualdonly gsm though17:40
djszapivirtuald: as discussed many times, it is a plus, it is good for hackers :P17:40
djszapibut still, they whine a lot :P17:40
itsnotabigtruckit should be easy to make a package (e.g. grob-settings-search-extras)17:40
itsnotabigtruckthat installs a bunch of extra desktop files17:40
itsnotabigtruckor maybe one per engine17:40
itsnotabigtruckbut the existing package doesn't break it out 1 per engine17:41
djszapi any votes are welcome, if you think, it makes sense.17:41
itsnotabigtrucki'm still curious as to what type of access is being requested and what would be done with it17:42
itsnotabigtruckkeep in mind that it's possible to override packages from the main harmattan target with those of your own17:42
virtuald16:32 < virtuald> if i put my n9 in open mode, can i get back to closed mode when i flash it?17:43
virtuald16:33 < virtuald> or is it a write once thing?17:43
djszapichuck norris access, and we would destroy windows :)17:43
itsnotabigtruckvirtuald: the latter17:43
itsnotabigtrucker, wait17:43
itsnotabigtruckthe former17:43
itsnotabigtruckyou go back to closed mode when you do a full flash17:43
itsnotabigtruckfor the avoidance of doubt17:43
djszapiof course you can get back.17:43
virtualdah good17:43
virtualdthen lets flash17:43
djszapiunfortunately, you even have a warranty afterwards.17:43
djszapiso you should be good to go.17:44
itsnotabigtruckif it actually does remember the user previously going into open mode, and that's actually enforced for warranty purposes, that would screw a lot of normal users who accidentally ended up in open mode due to flash failures17:45
djszapiexcept that they are not supposed to flash open mode.17:45
itsnotabigtruckthere seems to be a significant number of those events17:45
djszapibut send to Nokia service.17:45
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: there's a number of cases where the SSU put the phone into open mode with no intervention on the part of the user17:46
djszapiand never heard of anybody flashing open mode.17:46
itsnotabigtruckusually because the kernel didn't flash or something like that17:46
djszapi"because of flasher failures".17:46
djszapithat is simply solvable.17:46
djszapithis sounds like you give out bruteforce advices again17:46
itsnotabigtrucknot flasher, the flashing utility17:46
djszapiyou do not need to flash "open kernel" to get the kernel updated.17:46
itsnotabigtruckyou're not reading what i have to say17:47
pahas anybody here ever used syncevolution on N900?17:47
itsnotabigtruckthe SSU has two phases - phase 1: update everything and prepare for phase 2, phase 2: update nolo/sw-cert/kernel17:47
itsnotabigtruckphase 2 can and does fail17:47
itsnotabigtruckand when it does fail, that often ends up putting the phone into open mode17:47
itsnotabigtruckand then the users come to and are like "wtf i'm getting this weird disclaimer message what did i do"17:47
djszapiinteresting not for us...17:47
djszapiit was a very quick fix without getting into open mode...17:48
itsnotabigtruckit doesn't seem to always fail that way, only sometimes, not sure precisely what causes that17:48
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itsnotabigtruckbut i do know that people who have no idea what either flasher or open mode are ended up in it17:48
djszapias I said.17:48
djszapiit was a very quick fix for us for this very issue without getting into open mode.17:49
itsnotabigtruckfor what it's worth it seems like that sort of situation is *less* common when using the flasher17:51
itsnotabigtruckwhen it fails it's obvious that it did so, and there's fewer reasons it can fail17:51
djszapiand since it is an official kernel, it sohuld not be open mod eanyway.17:51
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djszapishould not*17:51
itsnotabigtruckwell, if the kernel doesn't match the sw cert it's no different from any other kernel17:51
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itsnotabigtruck(not 100% sure there)17:53
djszapiwhich is a completely different use case than flashing directly on an own kernel, what would be tracked.17:54
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djszapibecause in the real case: kernel changes, not the sw cert..17:56
itsnotabigtruckpoint is, i don't know the specific scenario but it definitely has happened17:56
djszapiand sw cert should not be touched by anybody else than Nokia in the current construction..17:56
itsnotabigtruckand normally the kernel and the sw cert change together17:57
djszapiso tracking the kernel flashing would be an entirely different scenario.17:57
djszapiwithout getting any harm for the update failures, if any17:57
djszapithat said, I was not personally able to reproduce that scenario either.17:57
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faenilguys is there any way to test GLES2.0 software in the harmattan env on PC?18:29
faenillike if I want to testa game18:29
faenilwithout the need to deploy it every time18:29
DocScrutinizer[2012-03-04 16:43:38] <itsnotabigtruck> you go back to closed mode when you do a full flash  [2012-03-04 14:52:00] <itsnotabigtruck> b) NOLO turns the trusted bit off whenever booting into open mode ever (including doing so just one time e.g. with the rescue kernel)18:30
djszapifaenil: aegis-qemu ?18:30
djszapithough, it is horribly slow18:30
faenilyeah that's a no go18:30
faenilany human way?18:30
djszapifaenil: why would you not use the device ?18:30
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: so how do those both staements fit together?18:30
faenilbecause let's say it takes longer or I don't have it18:30
djszapiand put the shader code into the qml ?18:30
djszapiand modify on the device18:31
faenilsuppose I don't have it18:31
faenilat the moment or at all18:31
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: full flash turns the trusted bit back on18:31
itsnotabigtruckthe bit is supposed to track whether the flash has been tainted by evil outside influence18:32
DocScrutinizereither you clear that bit on a sigle boot of an unsigned kernel, you're locked in to openmode and can't flash stock anymore, or you only clear that bit on FLASHING any non-secure stuff18:32
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DocScrutinizer[2012-03-04 14:51:20] <itsnotabigtruck> now starting with PR1.2, a) NOLO checks if the trusted bit is off, and if so, it acts as if the kernel was unsigned18:32
djszapifaenil: envision it works :P18:32
faenilso yet another platform which doesn't offer GLES 2.0 testing...18:33
DocScrutinizer[2012-03-04 14:53:46] <itsnotabigtruck> the net effect of that being that if you try to SSU from open mode, it'll skip all the flashing parts at the end18:33
DocScrutinizerso you say flashing still works, but SSU gets "disabled" in openmode?18:33
faenilthe only platform which lets you test GLES2.0 so far is iOS simulator18:33
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: yeah, well specifically, SSU phase 2 which i mentioned earlier gets disabled18:34
djszapifaenil: well, what is wrong about RDA ?18:34
itsnotabigtruckyou can ssu but it won't upgrade the kernel/nolo/sw-cert after it reboots18:34
djszapifor cases, when you do not have a device.18:34
faenilright, RDA18:34
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faenildjszapi, don't you have to book slots for that?18:35
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: so the bottom oneliner is simply: to revert from openmode kernel (if flashed, not if RAMloaded) you have to do a *complete* flashing, just flashing kernel doesn't suffice18:35
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: to revert from open mode, regardless of whether it was enabled due to flashing or ram loading18:35
itsnotabigtruckyou have to do a complete flash, not just the kernel18:35
itsnotabigtruckdoing so detaints the phone and exits open mode18:36
DocScrutinizermakes sense18:36
djszapifaenil: depends on the number of RDA devices, and users, I guess.18:36
djszapihow much you need to wait.18:36
faenildjszapi, ofc, but theorically...18:36
DocScrutinizerfrom Nokia's / platsec's POV18:36
faenildjszapi, RDA is better than nothing, ok...18:37
djszapifaenil: I cannot write you a simulator in few minutes :P18:37
djszapiman, cheer up :)18:37
faenildjszapi, no I'm just getting info about this feature ;)18:37
faenilAndroid: GLES2.0 support has been planned years ago, still nothing18:38
faenilBlackberry: planned, coming soon (TM)18:38
faenilSymbian : don't know, haven't tried18:38
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: there's lots of opengl es 2.0 emulators for windows/linux18:38
faenilBada: don't know, need info18:38
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itsnotabigtruckif you can make your program compile on both harmattan and generic linux, or something like that18:38
faenilitsnotabigtruck, and do they emulate the rest of the code too? :P18:38
itsnotabigtruckyou can use a gles emulator18:38
faenilwell ok...18:38
itsnotabigtruckwell, of course not, so you have to be able to build both ways18:38
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djszapifaenil: why would you need to run the rest of the code in that ?18:39
faenilbecause I want to be able to test the software18:39
djszapibut anyway, I would personally go for the real device, and then RDA.18:39
faenilnot split it in 100 parts and test one in each simulator18:39
djszapiit is called unit testing.18:39
faeniliOS: simulator, GLES2.0 working, you can test all you want18:40
djszapiif you test the gles shader code, it is ok. You can simulate the happening with other mock.18:40
faenilit's the only platform I've seen so far with that feature18:40
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: please check
djszapifaenil: so you plan to contribute to us to write one for harmattan ?18:40
DocScrutinizerI added a fat WARNING18:40
djszapior other platforms ?18:40
djszapior what is the consequence ? :)18:40
djszapipush others to do for you ?18:40
faenildjszapi, no, I repeat, I'm just getting info about platforms18:40
djszapiI am too solution oriented, sorry :P18:41
DocScrutinizera nd DANG this friggin HTML again ate all the <user> supposed HTML tags18:41
djszapiwhich is 1) Real Device 2) Rda in here.18:41
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: could have paraphrased into something a bit less irc-ish :p18:41
djszapi"workaround", if you prefer.18:41
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itsnotabigtruckfaenil: just make your program buildable on generic linux18:41
itsnotabigtruckand use ifdefs to compile out any HARMful stuff18:41
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faenilitsnotabigtruck, don't need a solution, just wanted to know if there was an easy way to do so18:42
itsnotabigtruckcheck out that18:42
itsnotabigtrucklooks like you need pvrvframe18:43
itsnotabigtruckalso for perf analysis, get pvrtune and put it on your phone18:43
ZogG_laptopluke-jr: IPv6 \0/18:43
faenilitsnotabigtruck, I don't anything atm :D18:43
faeniljust want to know which simulator supports GLES2.018:44
faeniland so far, it seems only iOS' does18:44
itsnotabigtruckalso imagination provides texture compression tools that you can use18:44
djszapifaenil: is that a good one ?18:44
faenildjszapi, perfectly smooth, from what I have seen on my colleague's laptop18:44
djszapifaenil: he was showing some photoshop'ped screenshots ? :P18:45
* djszapi hides18:45
djszapifaenil: beyond the joke, yes, that is not so awesome...but oh well18:46
faenildjszapi, I'm astonished by the fact that not even google found a solution for that18:47
faenilto that18:47
itsnotabigtruckwell, i'd hope that a PC's gpu is faster an a powervr18:47
itsnotabigtruckeven with an emulation layer18:47
itsnotabigtruckand opengl es 2.0 isn't much different from opengl 2.018:47
itsnotabigtruckthere isn't much to emulate, really18:47
djszapifaenil: probably not much gain out of it.18:47
djszapifrom business pov.18:47
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it is different.18:48
djszapione code might end up horribly broken on the other.18:48
djszapithat is what we experienced in gluon graphics sometimes.18:48
djszapibut not a brand new spec, that is true.18:48
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faenilitsnotabigtruck, so why is the iOS sim the only one which offers such so damn useful feature?18:49
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DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: better?18:49
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: not much different from before but /shrug :p18:50
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: probably because with so many iphone exclusive apps, iphone dev tools are serious business18:50
DocScrutinizerI prefer fullquotes over paraphrasing18:50
itsnotabigtruckand the iphone has a well defined fixed hardware configuration18:51
djszapifaenil: I think some manager was phanatic about it to propose one.18:51
itsnotabigtruckandroid doesn't18:51
djszapior they had some serious business use case.18:51
itsnotabigtruckn9 does, but given that we're having trouble getting up to date header files, a 3d-aware simulator doesn't seem like a super high priority18:51
faenilitsnotabigtruck, it really sucks that I have to kill myself to test a simple app when I don't have the phone/tablet with me18:52
djszapifaenil: pay them to make one :P18:52
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: i *highly* doubt your game/whatever can't be ported to qt and the powervr simulator18:52
djszapiin business order of magnitude for sure, not donation with few thousand euros :)18:52
faenilitsnotabigtruck, wait, so the powervr simulator can run Qt apps which use GLES2.0?18:53
djszapifaenil: not many people requested this feature here so far.18:53
DocScrutinizerfor anything hw-related there's just so much use in testing it in a simulator18:53
faenildjszapi, and that's so strange... :)18:53
djszapiand even your case would be fixable fairly easy.18:53
djszapiso why bother with employing further X specialists for such a project ?18:54
faenildjszapi, fairly easy in this case is "buying a device"18:54
djszapiand you have one18:54
djszapior well, eventually more.18:54
djszapiplus you have RDA18:54
faenilyeah RDA is a good thing18:55
faenilwhich RIM or google doesn't have (afaik)18:55
djszapiso you have more ways to do the job. It is not a must have for you to  have one.18:55
DocScrutinizerif you want to "test" an app on x86 that's using N9 hw bits, you probably want to set some #define that kicks out all the hw related stuff like GLES via #ifdef and replaces it with some generic helper stuff that runs on x86, in #else18:55
djszapiyou can get along with the available opportunities not in a difficult manner.18:55
djszapifaenil: you can get free RIM devices.18:55
faenilDocScrutinizer, ofc, that's the only thing you can do, if your sim doesn't support GLES2.018:55
faenildjszapi, that's what I'm trying to do, but I can't test my 3d model viewer18:56
djszapifaenil: smart18:56
DocScrutinizer...or NFC-functionality, or multitouch, or $random-other-hw-related18:56
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: point is, there's ways you can do this stuff18:57
djszapiwrite a simple application for getting a device, and then you can test your one later on the real hardware.18:57
itsnotabigtruckit's complicated, sure, but lots of stuff is complicated18:57
djszapiI wrote a useless metronome :P18:57
djszapiin few hours18:57
itsnotabigtruckalso faenil: i thought you had an N95018:57
itsnotabigtruckor if not, an N918:57
djszapihe has both :P18:57
faenilDocScrutinizer, the simulator simulates multitouch18:57
faenilDocScrutinizer, that's what simulators are about18:58
faenilitsnotabigtruck, yes, I do18:58
faenilitsnotabigtruck, but I repeat, this is not the point :)18:58
DocScrutinizerso you could write a GLES simulator as well18:58
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: then why are you complaining about having to buy a phone18:58
itsnotabigtruckyou have a phone18:58
itsnotabigtruckuse it18:58
faenilitsnotabigtruck, omg XD18:58
itsnotabigtruckand if you don't want to use it, then arrange to run your program on a gles emulator18:58
faenildjszapi, I'm porting the 3dmodel viewer to get the free device..18:59
faenilbut I'm having people on the chat test it :)18:59
faenilwhen I find someone who has got spare time to do so18:59
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: free playbook, or free something else18:59
djszapifaenil: again, write a simple app to get a device18:59
itsnotabigtrucki thought you were complaining about harmattan's simulator18:59
djszapifaenil: do not make your life really hard.19:00
faenilitsnotabigtruck, no my discussion was just about whether harm's sim supported GLES2.0 or not19:00
faeniljust an info :D19:00
faenildjszapi, I did not want to risk, they could refuse a simple app19:00
djszapihuh ?19:00
djszapiso you send blindly one that you have not experienced yourself, it works ?19:01
faenildjszapi, it's not like everyone who sends an app gets the device :)19:01
djszapiofc, you should make a useful simple app19:01
faenildjszapi, no, I sent a non-working file atm, I'll send the fixed one in the next days19:01
faenilbefore they review the app, hopefully19:01
djszapiLOL :D19:01
djszapiI am sorry, but you tend your life hard on purpose...19:02
djszapito make*19:02
faenilit took 10 "remote testing" to port my 3d model viewer anyway :D19:02
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faenilso Qt really is portable, LOL19:02
faenilsome features not working atm, but I know what needs fixing :)19:02
faenilanyway, my discussion was just to know what was the situation regarding harmattan's simulator19:03
djszapiapparently, noone is interested in a 64 GB N9 on the forum where I advertised...19:03
djszapiat least in two days, so far.19:03
faeniland the final answer is, if you don't have a device you have RDA, or you need to play with external gles emulators19:03
djszapiwell, there was one retarded who did not even read the advertisement, just wanted to get it cheap.19:03
faenildjszapi, XD19:03
djszapifaenil: that is definitely not my answer, but whatever.19:04
faenildjszapi, you said RDA, didn't u? :O19:04
djszapifor Harmattan, yes. For BB, no.19:04
faenilofc :)19:04
faenilI meant for harmattan19:04
djszapiI said a simple and useful app for BB19:05
djszapithough my metronome is quite useless :D :D :D19:05
faenil:D ahahah19:05
faenilitsnotabigtruck, djszapi DocScrutinizer does anyone of you have experience with glGetError?19:06
faenilso, here's the thing19:06
faenilI have class a and b19:06
faenilin a->foo()19:06
faenilI call b->init()19:06
faenilbefore calling init() in a->foo() I check glerror, and it's 019:06
alteregoJust noticed that the calendar icon, which updates with the current days date. There's an icon for every date in /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons19:06
alteregoWould have thought it'd be better to dynamically create the right one when it's required.19:07
faenilat the beginning of b->foo() I define int gl = glGetError()19:07
faeniland it's 1280!19:07
faenilbefore calling any gl function19:07
faenilhow does that come?19:07
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: calling glGetError itself resets the error state19:07
djszapiis this still the same problem from the past ?19:07
faenilitsnotabigtruck, yes I know19:07
faenildjszapi, nope19:07
alteregoThat's ~132K/bytes wasted19:07
itsnotabigtruckoh, nm, reread it19:08
faenilitsnotabigtruck, ok ;)19:08
faenilit's like a->foo{ if (glerror) printGlError; b->init()}19:08
itsnotabigtruckalterego: yup, the dynamic version probably wouldn't look as nice19:08
itsnotabigtruckmy calendarrr program could display the other icons on pr1.119:08
faeniland b->init{ int gl = glgeterror(); if (glerror) printglerror; THEN GL CALLS)}19:09
faenilthat's the pseudocode19:09
faenilhow does that come19:09
alteregoI'm sure they could get it looking fine with a little automated image stuff.19:09
faenilthat I get 1280 at the beginning of b->init?19:09
alteregoHell, the device has image magick installed on it.19:09
alteregoBy default19:09
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: btw, might be a good idea to have some macros or whatnot for checking glgeterror19:09
faenilyeah that's just the pseudocode, thanks anyway19:09
djszapifaenil: and what is 1280 ?19:10
djszapiI am afraid, you need to show the code for that...19:10
faenilI'm not calling any gl function19:10
faenilso how can that change xD19:10
djszapijust show...19:11
djszapimany people said they do not think there are problems elsewhere ;-)19:11
faenilcan't, have to ask for permission19:11
* djszapi is off for PA sprint preparation19:11
djszapifaenil: oh btw vote for the bug report19:12
djszapi -> if you think, it makes sense.19:12
faenilitsnotabigtruck, nice :D19:14
faenildjszapi, what's the harm project rep?19:14
faenilwhat's in there?19:14
djszapifaenil: see the first url in the footnote.19:15
djszapinot much in there, but it would be nice to have that formally.19:15
faenilok :)19:16
djszapiandnot someone's home folder as I wrote.19:16
djszapibtw, anybody from Darmstadt in here ?19:17
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: there is apps4meego, i think that's the answer you would get19:18
DocScrutinizerfaenil: object instantiation and initialization in C++ is a tarpit. You never know what gets done when19:19
djszapihuh ?19:19
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faenilDocScrutinizer ...19:20
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, there's stuff in there, it's just not listed in OBS19:21
itsnotabigtruckin fact, i don't think it's possible to modify it without direct access to the OBS server19:21
itsnotabigtruckbecause OBS doesn't allow binary uploads19:21
itsnotabigtruckbut that's also why i don't understand your bug - that project is supposed to be exactly the same as the beta3 sdk, nothing more, nothing less19:22
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: clearly, you do not understand what you are talking about19:22
djszapinor how a repository works in c-obs.19:22
djszapiyou basically say that Mer, MeeGo, Nemo, Plasma Active, Fedora, Ubuntu and Debian made miracle things19:23
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, i think the harmattan stuff was imported differently from those19:23
djszapi"in fact, i don't think it's possible to modify it without direct access to the OBS server" -> it makes no sense19:24
djszapi"because OBS doesn't allow binary uploads" -> zero fact, it does.19:24
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djszapi" but that's also why i don't understand your bug - that project is supposed to be exactly the same as the beta3 sdk, nothing more, nothing less" -> not, it is not.19:24
djszapiso again, zero fact.19:24
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djszapijreznik: o/19:24
itsnotabigtruckthe Debian:6.0 repo doesn't list any packages either19:25
itsnotabigtrucknor fedora:
ZogG_laptopfrals: ping19:25
itsnotabigtrucknor opensuse:
jreznikdjszapi: :) hi!19:26
djszapijreznik: we might need your help with the raspberry project.19:26
djszapijreznik: do you happen to have access to Fedora 14 ?19:27
jreznikdjszapi: on f14 right now :)19:27
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: what is that supposed to's not a build target19:27
jreznikand building f18 packages from here right now :)))19:27
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: the entire raison d'être of the repo you linked in your report, is to provide harmattan sdk packages to harmattan builds19:28
itsnotabigtruckthat's it19:28
djszapithat makes zero sense19:28
djszapiand obviously, that is now how Mer, MeeGo, PA, Nemo work there either19:29
djszapibut how I say.19:29
djszapithey /do/ have subprojects19:29
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djszapiand obviously, if you do not have access you cannot add subprojects.19:29
djszapijreznik: hehe, nice one :)19:29
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: then where *are* harmattan sdk packages supposed to come from19:29
djszapijreznik: we might need some development image for kde projects.19:29
djszapiin case of raspberry.19:30
djszapijreznik: and afaik, the toolchain and the image creation mostly works only on Fedora 14 :/19:30
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: from Nokia obviously.19:30
jreznikdjszapi: that's sad only fedora is supported :(19:30
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: from which OBS repository19:30
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I do not understand how that is notr trivial.19:30
djszapiNokia does not use OBS.19:31
jreznikon the other hand - seneca guys are really doing good job supporting fedora on rap-pi19:31
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: we're talking about OBS here19:31
djszapihow have you ever thought they do for Harmatan ?19:31
itsnotabigtruckwhich OBS repository do you enter when creating a project19:31
jreznikdjszapi: could you be more specific in what you need?19:31
djszapiand that is why I do not understand why you confuse Nokia in.19:31
djszapijreznik: yes, just hard to deal with itsnotabigtruck :P19:31
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: when you do a build of a harmattan package in OBS, OBS builds a virtual machine with build dependencies19:31
itsnotabigtruckharmattan build dependencies19:32
itsnotabigtruckin OBS, all build dependencies have to come from an OBS repository19:32
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: you do not still understand how OBS works.19:32
itsnotabigtruckso it's all internally consistent19:32
djszapicould you please start at the manual, if any ?19:32
djszapithere are subprojects attached to a project..19:32
djszapiseriously, open up many in there...19:32
itsnotabigtruckis the harmattan sdk, imported into OBS19:32
itsnotabigtruckthat's where all your harmattan packages come from19:33
itsnotabigtruckand it's not clear at all what you want to change about that19:33
djszapisorry, I need to ignore you :)19:33
djszapiin order to talk to jreznik19:33
djszapiit is much more fruitful discussion to me.19:33
djszapijreznik: yeah, sure so basic dependencies, I think like at meego times.19:33
djszapiit would be nice to bundle the things up to the kde-runtime layer or so.19:34
djszapibut any layer from the ground is a nice addition.19:34
djszapiso ideally, the "kde development image" would be shipped to KDE developers without any troubles with packaging, dependency building at large and so forth.19:35
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it took me 2 clicks ...19:35
jreznikI can try to prepare a rasp-pi-dev kickstart19:35
jreznikbtw. it's quite easy to set up kde devel. env in fedora19:36
djszapi same here.19:36
jreznikjust pick up fedora 14 kde spin, install it19:36
djszapijreznik: we would like to use our host system without changing. You know, the one ... we are used to.19:36
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: yet another two clicks:
jreznikit's going to be difficult to do something on top of f14 as it's already eol (in case of needed changes etc...)19:37
djszapiplease do not be lazy :)19:37
djszapijreznik: oh so it is even unhandy for fedora users ?19:38
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: lazy about what? none of this actually explains what it is you want to do19:38
itsnotabigtruckhow about this19:38
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jreznikdjszapi: yep, f15 and f16 are alive right now, f15 will be eoled soon after f17 release19:38
itsnotabigtruckprovided that your request gets approved, what precisely would be changed in OBS19:39
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I am not sure what is not totally straight-forward in that.19:39
itsnotabigtruckchanges = package and subproject creations, etc.19:39
jreznikbut arm version is delayed in f14 times (they already have newer one even)19:39
djszapijreznik: do you think the Fedora14 workflow works on later versions ?19:39
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: you do not need to do that19:39
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djszapiit is implementation detail....19:40
jreznikdjszapi: - so f17 alpha is released for arm too :)19:40
admiral0djszapi: can i disturb you a moment19:40
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: no, it's not, you're asking for access to be provided in order to do X19:40
itsnotabigtrucki'm asking you what X is19:40
djszapiadmiral0: no please, I am talking already to two guys.19:40
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itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: would disturbing me work?19:40
djszapi(though I would personally like to talk only to one)19:41
admiral0i'm trying to make lpsmagic work with aegis19:41
djszapiitsnotabigtruck knows aegis better ;)19:41
djszapihe proved it many times :P19:41
djszapijreznik: I see, mmh.19:42
itsnotabigtruckanyway, admiral0: hit me up on jabber19:42
admiral0i need a process running as root exposing an API on system dbus19:42
jreznikdjszapi: I'll be quite busy travelling this week but I'll talk to guys and we try to make you feel in fedora like in your home distro (but again, it's f14...)19:42
admiral0i'm on a train19:42
itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: you can put stuff in the aegis manifest to authorize dbus stuff19:43
admiral0so "hit" is quite inappropriate19:43
admiral0seeing what happened in poland :P19:43
djszapijreznik: is it not possible to get a customized KDE development image that I can use for chroot'ing on my Archlinux for instance ?19:43
djszapiadmiral0: are you sure you need to use Dbus ?19:44
djszapiit is a bit vulnerable stuff unfortunately on Harmattan.19:44
jreznikdjszapi: uf, never tried anything similar - at first I'd like to try a kickstart and deliver iso, then I can try to abuse yum to make a chrooted env.19:46
djszapijreznik: so the workflow was like that at meego times: we could create a KDE development image which is really just an image, and it could be invoked on any host distribution for chroot purposes.19:46
djszapiwhich is worse imho than scratchbox, but I cannot change it unfortunately. :)19:46
djszapibecause the problem is that if I get the toolchain ready in place, KDE developers need to deal with the whole stack on their own (every single developer).19:47
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jreznikdjszapi: do you have a link to this meego image?19:48
djszapiso when the guy at FOSDEM was asked about this by me and Aleix, we were told, it is gonna be possible to use our host with this image like at meego times: just a simple chroot, and we are inside the development environment.19:48
jreznikdjszapi: I remember it...19:49
djszapiI had the impression at FOSDEM, we were advertized and convinced by such a workflow again.19:49
djszapiplan B is getting C-OBS with raspberry target, but we all know a new c-obs target when it gets stable...long time which would run out of the three months deadline.19:50
djszapi(not sure it really is three months, but I have been told today by a raspberry pi mentor).19:51
djszapijreznik: I do not find those images, sorry19:54
djszapiwere they created by kickstart ?19:54
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itsnotabigtruckwhat's up?21:10
itsnotabigtruckonly 7pm utc and everyone's gone already?21:11
admiral0i'm here21:11
admiral0reading docs21:11
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admiral0and packaging php 5.4.021:11
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dfaurehi there. An upgrade prevents my N9 from booting, due to "devicelockd". I tried the instructions at but fdisk finds no partitions on /dev/sdb.21:15
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: hmm21:16
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itsnotabigtruckwould you be against flashing it and starting from scratch?21:16
itsnotabigtruckbecause that's always the easiest way to go21:16
itsnotabigtruckalso if you're running pr1.2, booting that rescue kernel puts you into open mode21:16
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dfaureI'd like to preserve my calendar events :(21:17
dfaurewhat's "open mode" ?21:17
dfaure(I think I was running pr1.2, yes)21:17
itsnotabigtruckopen mode causes a nasty disclaimer/warning to appear every time you boot the phone21:17
itsnotabigtruckit allows you to bypass aegis but it's not a good idea to enable it unless you're deliberately doing so21:17
itsnotabigtruckfor one, you have to wipe everything at the same time or it's prone to break things21:18
dfaureat this point I'd really prefer to bypass any security, than to get a broken phone by trying to install something....21:18
itsnotabigtruck < lol @ this thread21:18
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itsnotabigtruckdfaure: what do you mean by "get a broken phone..."21:20
dfaurewell this stupid situation with devicelockd preventing me from booting...21:21
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itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: most of those guides aren't very good, i wrote a more complete one, that mentions how to erase the lock code21:23
itsnotabigtruckthat guide was already linked in the thread21:23
djszapimmh, anybody here with opengl experience ?21:23
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: a little bit, shoot21:27
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: do you also have experience with QtOpenGL ?21:27
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: nope, not at all21:31
denism1dfaure: could you clarify, what's on the 2nd line, i.e. what is more detailed description of your MALF state?21:34
dfaureSecurity problem (devicelockd) :21:35
denism1dfaure: are you sure it is PR1.2?21:35
dfaure(this happened after I installed the kontact touch packages advertised on kde-mobile mailing-list)21:35
itsnotabigtruckiirc those packages have had major problems in the past21:36
itsnotabigtruckthere's a good chance it was mispackaged and went and trashed system files21:36
dfaurethese are newer packages, but obviously the problem is still there (sometimes)21:36
dfaureI installed the exact same packages on my wife's phone and it worked fine21:37
dfaureothers have installed them too.21:37
dfaureseems to be a bit random21:37
dfauredenism1: I had the latest updates, so yeah, I think that was PR1.221:39
dfauredjszapi: on kde-mobile, what did you mean by "Have you installed it from the Nokia source or some custom repository?" What's it/21:40
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djszapidfaure: never mind :)21:42
djszapiwe realized then it is coming from unknown source21:43
djszapidfaure: you still experience it after the PR1.2 update ?21:44
dfauredjszapi: ? I can't boot my phone....21:44
djszapidenism1: it is the same issue we discussed previously.21:44
dfaureso I can't update anything21:44
djszapidfaure: you did not use the flasher yet ?21:44
dfaureI tried to flash a rescue thingie to access the partitions, but that didn't work (no partitions on /dev/sdb)21:44
djszapiI mean full reflash.21:44
dfaureI'll try flashing firmware from NaviFirm+ now21:45
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: nah21:45
djszapithat was packaged by me, and perfectly fine :)21:45
djszapinot because of me, but I just grabbed from debian.21:45
djszapithe root cause was already detected21:45
djszapiPR1.2 fixes it :)21:45
djszapi(hopefully as expected)21:46
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: what is the root cause then?21:46
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: malfdetection by system software guys.21:46
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* dfaure thanks nokia for forcing me to run windows software just to download some firmware...21:46
djszapidfaure: cannot you grab the url ?21:47
djszapiand wget it ?21:47
dfaurewhich url21:47
dfaure talks about running some software21:47
djszapiI am sorry, but I am not familiar with this unofficial, not recommended way21:47
djszapibut people talked amongst each other about a direct url back then21:47
dfaure" a utility for downloading firmware files from Nokia's servers" sounds pretty official ;)21:48
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: it's not official at all21:48
dm8tbrthere is a perl script or somesuch for linux ;)21:48
itsnotabigtruckit's an unofficial program, that obtains URLs from a nokia official server21:48
djszapisomeone writing an ovi app to unofficially download it ? :P21:48
dm8tbror was it python?21:48
denism1dfaure: no, as I understand - it is something like a hack for some Nokia Care services21:48
djszapidfaure: I would like to warn you: if it is your N9, you may lose the warranty.21:49
dfaureI don't have a warranty, it's a nokia gift at DevDays21:49
dfaureI don't understand why it's so complicated to download firmware for it, though21:49
itsnotabigtruckthere's actually a program from nokia called Nokia Data Package Manager21:49
itsnotabigtruckit's basically nokia's version of navifirm21:50
djszapidfaure: because the official way is SSU or the Windows/Mac apps21:50
itsnotabigtruckbut navifirm does everything DPM does and more21:50
djszapidfaure: and then Nokia Care.21:50
dfaurenokia care doesn't apply for a gift, I suppose21:50
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: please don't start this again21:51
djszapidfaure: probably, but have you checked your IMEI number with Nokia Care ?21:51
djszapijust for making sure, you do not really have warranty.21:52
djszapior was it Quim telling this directly ?21:52
dfaureright, I have no clue21:52
dfaure(as shown by all the above ;)21:52
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: it's probably under warranty, i doubt nokia can tell it apart from any other retail N921:52
djszapiI do not have any for the one I won on Thursday with this application competition though.21:52
itsnotabigtrucki'd assume for those sorts of prizes, they're just retail units released from inventory21:53
djszapidfaure: so you do not most likely have it either21:53
djszapibut always better to check. :)21:53
dfaurewould the warranty sort me out of this mess, anyway?21:53
dfaureclearly I installed your unsupported packages, so... :-)21:53
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: no, they'll flash it21:53
djszapiyou would be able to send it to Nokia Care.21:53
djszapidfaure: yes, of course.21:53
djszapiit is a firmware bug (known).21:54
itsnotabigtruckyou'll bring it there, they'll leave it sitting around for a week and possibly scratch it up, and flash it21:54
djszapidfaure: as you saw, it even happened internally with Qt3D21:54
itsnotabigtruckthere's absolutely no reason to do that when you can do it at home in 10 minutes, safely and effectively21:54
dfaureyeah, guess I should just try flashing it myself.21:54
itsnotabigtrucki am curious, however @djszapi, what the actual trigger for this is21:54
itsnotabigtruckso as everyone can avoid it21:54
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: already told you.21:54 is so slow that "10 minutes" seems optimistic ;-)21:54
djszapiand you cannot really avoid technically.21:54
itsnotabigtruckyou said it was some trigger in devicelockd21:55
itsnotabigtrucktrigger on what21:55
djszapinever said that ...21:55
itsnotabigtruckwell, you said: itsnotabigtruck: malfdetection by system software guys.21:55
djszapiin this special case, it is coming from a system software check against devicelock.21:55
itsnotabigtruckscratch the devicelockd part21:55
djszapidfaure: so, if for some reasons you have warranty, you will probably not lose it in the practice, but I just wanted to be profesionally fair what is the "official saying".21:57
itsnotabigtruckright, it is possible to screw up your phone with flasher, especially if you venture outside of the stuff in the guide22:00
itsnotabigtruckor put it into open mode when you didn't want to22:00
itsnotabigtruckwhen you run flasher it shows you a warning saying it's for "professional use only" and that using it incorrectly could void the warranty22:01
itsnotabigtruckjust flashing the phone with the latest nokia stuff won't void the warranty in any reasonable interpretation of that22:02
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itsnotabigtruckbut e.g. obliterating the NAND using some broken image you just cooked up, on the other hand :p22:03
itsnotabigtrucki'm surprised there's been so few attempts to cook firmware so far22:04
itsnotabigtruckall the tools are available22:05
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dfauregahhh, still no response from server... does anyone have NaviFirm+ for windows at hand? :/22:06
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: i'll just give you some hotlinks22:07
itsnotabigtruckwhich variant code are you trying to download22:07
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itsnotabigtruckdid you already upgrade to PR1.2? if so, which variant code do you have right now22:08
dfaureI'm confused about PR1.2. I'm pretty sure I upgraded, yes, but djszapi says the issue is because I didn't have 1.2....22:08
itsnotabigtruckwait, it's working just fine22:09
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: get flasher installed and do flasher -i22:09
itsnotabigtrucksee what version it says you're running22:09
itsnotabigtrucki think you already got a link to my flashing manual, read through that, especially the part about what counts as a downgrade22:09
djszapidfaure: I have not seen any mentioning about a successful update to PR1.2 in that thread.22:10
djszapifrom you before writing the issue.22:10
dfaureVersion of 'sw-release': DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_00922:10
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: that's pr1.1...22:10
dfaure(but this could be messed up by the flashing of "rescue", no?)22:10
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itsnotabigtruckwell, normally you don't actually flash the rescue kernel, but either way, no22:10
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dfaureah, ok. My bad, then.22:11
itsnotabigtruckalso since you aren't on pr1.2 yet, you can use any variant you want22:11
dfaureitsnotabigtruck: that link offers "save as", but then no data is coming in.22:11
itsnotabigtruckcan't go wrong with 00122:11
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: just downloaded something wrong with your connection?22:12
dfaurehmm, weird....22:12
itsnotabigtruckare you using firefox? because sometimes firefox will go haywire and refuse to transfer data22:13
dfaureI tried firefox on windows, and konqueror on linux22:13
dfaurekonq got 24K, then nothing else22:13
* dfaure sighs and tries IE....22:14
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djszapidfaure: you seem to enjoy windows ;)22:14
dfaurealmost as much as kontact touch....22:15
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dfaureIE gave up quick. But wget seems to work...22:16
djszapicool :)22:16
faenildjszapi, you've got a playbook right?22:17
djszapinot right :p22:17
djszapibut I would like to change my N9 won for a playbook though...22:18
djszapilucky guys at MWC gotten one for free :)22:18
bindiI'm still kind of mad at nokia for not selling the N950 ;_;22:18
bindineed an upgrade to my N900, like the N9, don't like the absence of qwerty22:19
* bindi kills self22:19
faenilI need someone with a playbooko xD22:19
djszapifaenil: why not ask in #qt-qnx or #playbook-dev ?22:19
dfauresigh, wget stalls at 96K. itsnotabigtruck: sorry to impose, but could you upload navfirm+ somewhere for me?22:19
faenildjszapi, because I already asked there? :P22:19
djszapifaenil: right, but that does not make it a playbook channel.22:20
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: i would but the server is working, and once you have navifirm then you have to download 1.5 GB of firmware files22:20
faenilI was told you had it :D22:20
itsnotabigtruckand it sounds like something has gone wrong with your computer/router/isp/whatever22:20
djszapifaenil: really ? xD22:20
faenildjszapi, yes XD22:21
dfaureoh from the same server? damn22:21
itsnotabigtruckare you able to download anything else right now?22:21
itsnotabigtruckdfaure: no, not the same server22:21
dfaurewebbrowsing works just fine22:21
itsnotabigtruckbut since that server is working fine on my end i doubt that's ht eproblem22:21
itsnotabigtruckgot a solid 20 kB/s on a slow hotspot22:21
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* dfaure grabs his 3G key...22:22
ghjgfjghjbnanyone use android extensively (1+year) before getting n9?22:22
itsnotabigtruckjust use that22:22
djszapighjgfjghjbn: perhaps RST38h22:23
djszapighjgfjghjbn: but shoot the question anyway about Harmattan..22:23
dfaureitsnotabigtruck: thanks!22:24
ghjgfjghjbnim thinking about picking up white n9, but ive been using android for 1 year. RST38h you around?22:24
djszapighjgfjghjbn: so what is the question ? :) Advices in general, whether it is a good thing to do ?22:25
ghjgfjghjbnlooking for opinions/experience from previous android user22:26
ajalkaneI just picked up a white N9. Haven't regretted it so far. My wife has an android if that counts :P22:26
djszapiajalkane: and she bought it for you right ? :)22:26
ajalkanedjszapi: yeah :)22:26
djszapiajalkane: Please vote for this bug, if you think it makes sense.22:27
ajalkanedjszapi: I don't have enough understanding of the topic to be anything other than baffled by the whole description22:29
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djszapiajalkane: heh22:29
djszapiajalkane: thing is that, we would like to get ouf of the "Community Repository in someone's home folder" situation.22:30
djszapiand we would like to have it in a more formal place as other projects do, as in: Mer, MeeGo, Nemo, Plasma Active and the like.22:30
ajalkanewhat's wrong with community repo being someone's home folder, or any place that's reachable?22:30
djszapinobody does this way because it makes no sense :)22:31
djszapithat is what the "Project" entry was established for.22:31
djszapiUnfortunately, when I proposed the home folder, I have not had any clues we are gonna hit this well-known state.22:31
ajalkaneExplain. I understand using a formal place if it's then installed to the device without user having to add it manually.22:32
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: ok, so what you really want to do is move the home:rzr:harmattan repo to a more official place22:32
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: exactly.22:32
itsnotabigtruckyou could have just said so! except the repository you linked in your bug is for SDK packages only22:32
djszapior well...partially.22:32
itsnotabigtruckso it can't be MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan22:32
djszapiI would like to move more things in there actually, not just rzr22:32
itsnotabigtruckit could be MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan:Community or something22:33
djszapiajalkane: you need to add obs repositories manually of course22:33
djszapiunless you have a helper Ui tool for that.22:33
djszapisince they are not shipped by the platform.22:33
itsnotabigtruckor Community:MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan perhaps22:33
itsnotabigtruckadd a new top-level repo22:33
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: of course it can22:33
itsnotabigtruckthat would mirror Apps:MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan22:34
djszapiit is gonna be many subprojects in that22:34
djszapithat is the whole bug report about.22:34
ajalkaneok, I'm unfortunately too ignorant to make a reasonable opinion on this issue.22:34
djszapifair enough22:34
djszapiCommunity:MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan makes no sense22:35
djszapithat would mean nothing else than decoupling things for the same purpose.22:35
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djszapiso, nah. such a thing is no go.22:35
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: it'd a good idea in concept but i think the report needs to be rewritten so that the powers that be have a chance at figuring out what the objective is22:35
djszapithey did22:36
djszapiwe agreed upon discussing it tomorrow in details.22:36
djszapiI personally really wonder what is not quite straight-forward to you.22:36
djszapisince that is what all the other projects do.22:37
itsnotabigtruckalso, *everything* that's harmattan in OBS depends on MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan/Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard22:37
djszapiI mean it is nothing new, just the general stuff22:37
itsnotabigtruckso whoever has access to that repo can co-opt anything in OBS that's harmattan-related22:37
itsnotabigtruckfor example, by arranging the build system to go compile in a trojan as a static library into everything22:37
djszapithis is hijacking.22:38
djszapithe point is that, the current community repository maintainers would like to be able to arrange the future of the Harmattan repository story.22:39
djszapiwithout any concrete implementation details.22:39
djszapibecause it is currently messed up, and mostly in Harmattan.22:39
djszapiother projects seem to do cool.22:40
itsnotabigtruckwell, it would seem to be logical to restructure it as e.g.22:40
itsnotabigtruckMeeGo:1.2:Harmattan -> SDK:PR1.0, SDK:PR1.1, SDK:PR1.2, Community:Apps, Community:Support, AppsForMeego:Apps22:41
itsnotabigtruckbut it's kinda too late to move the sdk repo, everything in obs is hardwired to it22:42
itsnotabigtruckbut assuming that there even *is* a pr1.2 sdk ever released, there'll need to be a place to put it22:43
djszapias for me, totally irrelevant question at this stage22:43
djszapiwe will decide how to organize once we are able to organize.22:44
djszapiit is not a hard matter to organize these things...22:44
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: except a) the SDK packages are directly uploaded into that /Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard repo and it takes admin intervention to do any move of those22:45
itsnotabigtruckthat and updating every repo for harmattan22:45
djszapiand there are no such things as "SDK:PR1.X" in my mind22:45
djszapiI would like to deal with the community effort, plus apps/tools repository, nothing more.22:45
itsnotabigtruckb) my previous point about co-opting everything22:45
itsnotabigtruckwhatever the sdk repo is, it has to be trusted22:45
djszapiagain, there is no "SDK repository".22:46
djszapiforget it22:46
djszapithey are not targetted for real usage22:46
djszapiThey even claimed it.22:47
djszapiwe would not like to use that, but actually drop.22:47
itsnotabigtruckand what do you mean "there are no such things as" had access to exactly that (sdks for each pr1.x) working ewwith nokia22:47
itsnotabigtruckand what's available right now is a trimmed down PR1.0 SDK22:47
djszapi"AppsForMeego:Apps" -> makes no sense22:47
djszapiahhh I do not enumerate22:48
djszapiall the "categories" you mentioned make no sense to me, sorry :)22:48
djszapifirst of all: Apps4Meego is already apps22:48
djszapisecond: we do not have support22:48
djszapithird, we do not need Community marker since it is all about community already. That is pretty implied in Community OBS.22:48
itsnotabigtruckwell, you're already talking about totally restructuring OBS so i thought i'd include that in the list22:48
djszapinever said that....22:49
djszapiI do not even touch pure "OBS".22:49
djszapiit is all about Community OBS.22:49
itsnotabigtruckthen i guess you haven't thought about how central the MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan repo is then22:49
itsnotabigtruck(in the context of obs)22:49
djszapiThe MeeGo target has been the part of the C-OBS from day first.22:50
djszapiHarmattan is a subproject in MeeGo, so ...22:50
djszapiyou mix up obs and c-obs all the time22:51
djszapiI am not sure you understand the difference between them.22:51
itsnotabigtruckwell, i've been talking about community obs all the time22:52
itsnotabigtruckthe meego obs is irrelevant and afaik it has nothing to do with harmattan22:52
djszapiif you have that in mind, please write so.22:52
djszapiquite confusing reading otherwise.22:52
djszapihuh ?22:52
djszapiHarmattan /is/ the part of the MeeGo target.22:52
djszapiit has quite a lot to do with it....22:53
itsnotabigtruckOBS = a piece of software from opensuse, C-OBS = what we're talking about, M-OBS = has nothing to do with harmattan22:53
itsnotabigtrucksince the latter is used for building meego rpm packages, and harmattan isn't meego22:53
djszapiI think you are confused22:53
djszapieven inside the same repository, there can be rpm and deb, and that is exactly what many projects does.22:54
djszapibut that is a different story anyway (hijacking)22:54
itsnotabigtruck < nothing about harmattan there22:54 (m-obs) is for compiling real meego only22:55
djszapithis is not the community OBS ...22:55
itsnotabigtruckright, but it's the OBS you keep thinking i'm talking about22:55
itsnotabigtruckeven though it makes no sense22:55
djszapiUse damn c-obs, if that is in your mind22:55
itsnotabigtruckonly (C-OBS) is interesting from a harmatyan pov22:55
* djszapi does not really understand why m-obs was confused in22:56
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: "djszapi | I do not even touch pure "OBS"."22:56
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itsnotabigtrucki was talking about the only OBS anyone here cares about, and you started bringing up M-OBS22:57
djszapino, I did not22:57
djszapiplease do not misterpret me.22:57
Venemo_N950hey :)22:57
djszapihello Venemo_N950 :)22:57
itsnotabigtruckplease don't play word games with me22:57
djszapiVenemo_N950: the bug vanished :)22:57
Venemo_N950hey djszapi :)22:57
itsnotabigtruckway too often, when you claim other people are wrong, it's that you're missing the context22:58
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: you are the only one who cannot write c-obs here.22:58
djszapiseriously, you are the first one I experience it22:58
Venemo_N950djszapi, I'm so happy to hear that :)22:58
djszapiand this is quite noisy to read that, if everybody else uses c-obs22:58
djszapiso please just play nice with the rest.22:58
itsnotabigtruckbecause i like to be brief in the expectation that people will fill in the blanks22:58
Venemo_N950djszapi, I was afraid you could somehow still trigger it!22:58
djszapiVenemo_N950: even the completion works fine, so great work :)22:59
Venemo_N950djszapi, you know what the solution was?22:59
djszapiis it now a workaround or real fix ?22:59
itsnotabigtruckyeah, i couldn't trigger it either22:59
Venemo_N950workaround. I turned off predictive input on the read-only text area. lol?23:00
itsnotabigtruckwell, that isn't the workaround, right?23:00
itsnotabigtruckpredictive input is still on in the chat entry area, right23:00
djszapiVenemo_N950: do you still have the test code for showing up the issue ?23:01
Venemo_N950I made a simple test case as djszapi suggested, and it turned out that the TextArea becomes buggy in RichText mode if predictive input is on.23:01
Venemo_N950djszapi, yes I do.23:01
Venemo_N950djszapi, I can upload it somewhere if you're interested.23:02
djszapiVenemo_N950: can you reproduce it with plain qml ?23:02
djszapior with MTF ?23:02
Venemo_N950djszapi, I'm not competent to test mtf, but I can say that the bug is not present if I replace the TextArea with a simple TextEdit.23:03
Venemo_N950anyway, there's still some refactoring to do23:04
djszapiIt basically works with MTF as far as I see from platform applications.23:04
Venemo_N950but from this day, I consider IRC Chatter a decent app.23:05
djszapiso why is it green when orange is selected for the side color then ? :P23:05
itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: eh, it feels pretty beta23:06
itsnotabigtruckbut it's a really good start23:06
Venemo_N950try changing the setting again. probably some leftover.23:06
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, join its channel and tell me more about the bugs you find :)23:07
Venemo_N950of course, I don't say it's perfect. but it's a lot better than it was a month ago23:08
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itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: well, a lot of it is things like error checking, or making the connection management feel right23:09
itsnotabigtrucki tried to connect over 3g and it failed because i guess my ip was blocked (freenode blocks a lot of wireless networks)23:09
itsnotabigtruckand it just ended up spinning forever, and displaying some error messages as popup notifications that i couldn't read23:10
itsnotabigtruckit's things like that23:10
djszapiVenemo_N950: tried, but it does not appear according to the right color.23:10
itsnotabigtruckmaking sure it can never end up going into an undefined state23:10
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Venemo_N950I plan on eliminating that connecting, please wait screen alltogether23:11
Venemo_N950and responding to socket errors. that's important23:11
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, not sure if you tested that, but it handles eg. connectivity loss pretty nicely now.23:12
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itsnotabigtruckhey blueslee23:15
itsnotabigtruckdid you get your phone sorted out23:15
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: hehe ... i have one issue with gallery app as it does not show me photos made before pr 1.2, only new ones. can i force it with tracker?23:16
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: i want to switch to the open mode but i have my doubts that nokia will also break that one with pr 1.3 ...23:17
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: the issue exists also for other apps showing graphical content, like lpmcustomize23:18
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bluesleejonni: rainisto?23:21
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itsnotabigtruckblueslee: so you managed to get out of open mode?23:23
itsnotabigtrucksince open mode is semi official i doubt it'll go away in pr1.323:23
itsnotabigtruckit's not like it was put in by accident23:23
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: i never used the open mode ...23:24
itsnotabigtruckblueslee: i thought you accidentally got stuck in open mode23:25
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bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: i got stuck after flashing the rescue image with pr 1.223:31
Venemo_N950_anyway, good night guys :)23:32
Venemo_N950_have a nice evening23:32
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: is the recue kernel the same one as the one from open mode, only temporarly flashed?23:32
itsnotabigtrucklater Venemo_N950_ !23:32
itsnotabigtruckblueslee: did you get back out?23:32
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: gn823:32
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: no, i did not ... i have to reflash pr 1.223:33
djszapiVenemo_N950_: good evening to you, too ;)23:33
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Venemo_N950_itsnotabigtruck, if you feel like, I'd welcome your opinions. I'd like to make a decent app out of IRC Chatter.23:33
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Venemo_N950_itsnotabigtruck, perhaps we can talk about it tomorrow23:33
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: i use irc chatter on the n9, good one!23:34
Venemo_N950_blueslee, thanks! :) have you tried the latest version?23:34
itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950_: well, i'd already call it "decent" :)23:34
Venemo_N950_djszapiN9, and thanks for all the time you put into testing it!23:34
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: i downloaded the one from my-meego.com23:34
itsnotabigtruckit's not that bad at all and you're working hard to make it top notch23:35
itsnotabigtruck*not bad at all23:35
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: the zip  containing a library file23:35
Venemo_N950_itsnotabigtruck, it's missing some more details, but thanks :)23:35
Venemo_N950_blueslee, that's _very_ old23:35
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: but its the best irc app out there23:35
Venemo_N950_thx :)23:35
Venemo_N950_get the newest from
Venemo_N950_I'd welcome your opinion on it too23:36
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: thank you ... no additional lib needed?23:36
Venemo_N950_blueslee, nope.23:37
ieatlinthuh... the qt-mobility 1.2 docs now list nfc apis as fully completed for harmattan, but the connectivity module docs still warn that they're not23:37
bluesleeVenemo_N950_: okay, i will test it and give you feedback on irc23:37
Venemo_N950_blueslee, the lib is embedded into the app. at least those parts that I use23:37
* ieatlint wonders which is correct23:37
Venemo_N950_blueslee, thanks :)23:37
Venemo_N950_blueslee, it was a hassle for everyone to install the separate lib, and it was a hassle to package it. thus the decision.23:38
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bluesleeVenemo_N950: the only thing i miss is to connect to several servers in parallel23:39
Venemo_N950blueslee, the new version can do that!23:39
Venemo_N950and it also fixes23:40
Venemo_N950and it also fixes most of the usability things23:40
bluesleecool ...23:41
Venemo_N950there are still a few glitches in it, but it's a lot better :)23:41
bluesleei was happy with the old one23:44
Venemo_N950and you don't like the new one?23:44
bluesleei will check it out in some minutes23:45
Venemo_N950djszapiN9, I'm so relieved that I could fix your bug. it had been haunting me for half a year.23:48
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bluesleeready to test23:49
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, what I want is a new channel switcher. the current one is a bit hard to glance when you have many channels open23:50
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itsnotabigtruckVenemo_N950: but it looks cool! it's one of the cooler looking parts of the app23:50
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bluesleeVenemo_N950: looks very good, using more than one server also works well23:57
Venemo_N950itsnotabigtruck, thanks :)23:57
Venemo_N950blueslee, thanks :)23:57
blueslee_do you plan to upload it to ovi store?23:58
Venemo_N950blueslee_, yes! after most of the bugs get fixed.23:58
blueslee_okay, many thanks for this update23:59
Venemo_N950I'm happy you find it useful23:59
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