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| pa | how can i press "canc" on N9 keryboard? | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
| ajalkane | what's a "canc" ? | 00:18 |
| pa | canc key | 00:18 |
| pa | i see only backspace | 00:18 |
| ajalkane | you mean delete key? | 00:19 |
| ajalkane | or esc? | 00:20 |
| pa | yes delete sorry | 00:20 |
| ajalkane | you need to use swype keyboard for that | 00:21 |
| pa | ah | 00:21 |
| pa | its not there otherwise? | 00:21 |
| pa | i see | 00:21 |
| ajalkane | no, unless you edit the keyboard mappings | 00:21 |
| ajalkane | but the swype keyboard has many other goodies also, like arrow keys etc. | 00:21 |
| pa | i'd like | 00:23 |
| pa | but i tried to turn it on on 1.1 and it didnt really work | 00:23 |
| ajalkane | did not? Has worked for me spendidly. What's the problem? | 00:23 |
| ieatlint | note that in the terminal, there is an esc button | 00:24 |
| pa | it did not appear at all | 00:24 |
| pa | even it was there | 00:24 |
| ieatlint | so if that's where you want it.. | 00:24 |
| ajalkane | you need to swipe to get into the swype ;) | 00:24 |
| pa | if i was pressing in the black, some keys were popping up | 00:24 |
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| ieatlint | it won't be on the keyboard, it'll be part of a toolbar just above it | 00:24 |
| ajalkane | humm... that's weird | 00:25 |
| ieatlint | well, the terminal may be in select mode... there's a button in the upper right to toggle that | 00:26 |
| ieatlint | when it's not in select mode, if the esc key isn't visible, swipe left/right on the terminal window and it will change the buttons shown on the toolbar | 00:26 |
| ieatlint | (god, this sounds a lot more complicated than it is) | 00:26 |
| pa | ah yes that i noticed | 00:27 |
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| ajalkane | so when you activate swype, you just get black rectangle where keyboard is supposed to be? | 00:28 |
| pa | yes thats what i was getting | 00:29 |
| pa | now im trying again | 00:29 |
| ajalkane | try swyping the keyboard... you know, like when you change languages in the stock keyboard | 00:29 |
| ajalkane | maybe that could resolve it. If not, rebooting phone could be the answer. | 00:29 |
| ieatlint | and don't confuse swipe, swype and the verb swipe... they're all different things :P | 00:30 |
| ajalkane | yeah, forgive my drunken banter with mixed y's and i's | 00:30 |
| pa | now it looks like it works | 00:31 |
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| ajalkane | anyway, I just got a white N9 so I'm in a better mood than usually. | 00:32 |
| ieatlint | yay white | 00:33 |
| ajalkane | So shiny | 00:33 |
| ieatlint | i need a pink one | 00:33 |
| ieatlint | then i'll have the full set | 00:33 |
| ajalkane | In my hours of desperation, when I thought I could never afford N9 (today), I tried to trade my gift Lumia in workplace's intranet to N9. No one took the bait, even as I embellished it with all the right words like "magnificient Lumia, Windows, "dead-on-arrival" N9 etc." | 00:35 |
| ieatlint | i'm shocked | 00:36 |
| ieatlint | who wouldn't want a windows phone... | 00:36 |
| ajalkane | Ah no... I already tried that yesterday I think. Today I was ready to pull the trigger to exchange it with some anonymous person from internet. But the N9 would have been black 16GB | 00:36 |
| ajalkane | Yeah, I even tried "Pissed off you don't have Windows in your pocket?" line. I'm not sure what's wrong with those people. But I'm stuck with my Lumia. | 00:37 |
| ieatlint | haha, i'd be tempted to do that... another n9 > lumia 800 | 00:37 |
| ajalkane | At least it has Fruit Ninja. Good times. | 00:37 |
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| ajalkane | Yeah. I haven't used the Lumia for 2 months. Used it for 2 weeks after getting it. After that it's been sleeping it's coffin. | 00:38 |
| ajalkane | * in its | 00:38 |
| ieatlint | i just use my lumia phone to anonymously call 911 and report people i don't like as drunk drivers | 00:38 |
| ieatlint | it serves its purpose... | 00:38 |
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| ajalkane | It's a portable gaming console for me. | 00:38 |
| ajalkane | It's unbelievably hard to get multi-sim from operators in Finland. I want to have 2 sim cards, one for N950 and one for the N9. Seems to be hard. | 00:40 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, yes this screen is a dust attractor | 00:41 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: I know a solution for this. Heard it from a Saunalahti guy. | 00:41 |
| pa | jeez | 00:41 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: yeah? What's the solution? I was just today in the shop and the clerck just said "no can do" | 00:41 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: You would get 2 similar SIM cards with the same number, like a Mokkula and regular phone SIM cards. The problem is that one of them is the active one that gets all SMS / calls but you could use both still but one remains active and the other passive. | 00:42 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: Which operator did you go to and talked today? | 00:42 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: that's okay for me... I guess that's the MobiiliLaajakaista Plus? | 00:43 |
| pa | question: harmattan is open source. are open source also the stock applications? like the camera app, for instance | 00:43 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: it was Elisa ShopIt | 00:43 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: Yes, that is the one. It would give you two similar numbers and one remains active and gets all SMS / calls etc. but still could use the other and gives the same number etc. | 00:44 |
| ajalkane | But it may be that the clerk just didn't know what he was talking about. But I wouldn't want to buy into something that I'm not sold as like it's supposed to do what I want | 00:44 |
| DrGrov | That is how I was told, I trust the guy that told me | 00:44 |
| DrGrov | But of course, good to get some type of confirmation about it. I could try to ask the guy next time I go in to Elisa Shopit where I live. | 00:44 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: yeah cool, I figured by reading the web-page it might work that way. I'll just need to go harass some other clerk with this information. | 00:44 |
| DrGrov | The problem is that most clerks will not tell you that straight | 00:45 |
| DrGrov | Since they do not know it that it works like that. This guy I talked with is a serious haXXor and figured it out in some odd way and told me. | 00:45 |
| DrGrov | LOL | 00:45 |
| ajalkane | Yeah I think I'll just go asking for MobiiliLaajakaista Plus and start drilling from there deeper. I'm not sure why they seem reluctant to sell multi-sims nowadays | 00:45 |
| DrGrov | But be sure that you can actually get it, they might try to "kusettaa" you :/ | 00:46 |
| DrGrov | Piss you in the face when you are not watching :/ | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: no, not really | 00:46 |
| SpeedEvil | http://aaisp.net.uk/ - have stupidly flexible phone plans. | 00:46 |
| SpeedEvil | But only in the UK | 00:46 |
| ajalkane | Hehe yeah... that's why I want assurance when I'm buying into it. | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | basically none of the GUI except a few core components is open source | 00:46 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: I would not want to read in Ilta Sanomat or Iltalehti about a Finnish guy going berserk in a Elisa ShopIt and causing mass havoc :) | 00:47 |
| pa | so basically if one ask for an enhancement, its only up to nokia. I cannot even do it myself? | 00:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: exactly :/ i really wish they'd open source everything practical | 00:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, probably most people here do | 00:47 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: I was really close to doing that when I noticed all N9 stands were replaced by Lumia stands. And all traces of N9s were removed. | 00:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | obviously some things have legitimate business reasons going against it, but a lot of it seems to be "ugh, can't deal with the lawyers" | 00:48 |
| pa | i would like to have a manual focus slider on the camera f. ex | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it might make sense to build an entirely new camera app | 00:48 |
| pa | but nokia dont seem too eager to accept my request | 00:48 |
| Jare | blah, you have to pay extra for mobiililaajakaista plus, but a few years ago you could get multisim (5 sims) relatively cheaply | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | PR1.2 comes with libfcam, which is apparently a library for providing super low level camera access | 00:48 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: I love to see that the N9 is pulled from the shelves. Makes me feel special. | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's an app called fcamera for n900 that uses it for raw photos, exposure bracketing, and things like that | 00:48 |
| pa | ah creat | 00:48 |
| pa | great | 00:49 |
| pa | maybe it can be even ported | 00:49 |
| ajalkane | Jare: It's only 5€ more from my current, and a bit faster data connection too | 00:49 |
| DrGrov | But Mobiililaajakaista Plus is the only way I know about. I do not know any other way to get multi sim | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also ajalkane: i wasn't aware such a thing even existed | 00:50 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: What type of contract do you have? Something gigantic? | 00:50 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: hehe... I'm just getting a "I pity the fool..." feeling when I see someone with fake N9. | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sounds like it's basically 2 lines | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a data only line, and a data/voice line | 00:50 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: I think that the N9 is the last good phone Nokia made | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the two sims need to have two IMSIs in order to coexist | 00:50 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: No I just have the normal unlimited data that's something like 10€ per month. MobiiliLaajakaista is 14.90 | 00:50 |
| DrGrov | But the new 41 Mpix camera phone Nokia is releasing looks quite nice. | 00:50 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: Ok, I got myself the DNA Joustava 12000...... | 00:51 |
| * DrGrov runs and hides | 00:51 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: "fake N9" as in the lumia, or counterfeits | 00:51 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: yeah last good one for many years to come. I guess until 2015/2016 at least. Doesn't bother me. My previous phone was N95 so I'm willing to wait. | 00:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, that's the thing, truly awesome phones don't need replacing every year or two | 00:51 |
| ajalkane | I looked at DNA but they don't have multi-sim. And I really need to use my N950 also for development. | 00:51 |
| ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: fake N9 as in Lumia ;) | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they're built to last and refuse to go obsolete | 00:52 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: The only reason I went with DNA is that I got a good bandwith on Matkanetti 384... LOL | 00:52 |
| DrGrov | And I get a good signal anywhere I go with DNA. But I am thinking about changing to Saunalahti, not sure though. Perhaps later this year. | 00:53 |
| ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: true true, N9 was the first phone I was truly excited to get since N95 (N900 was close but not enough), so I'm quite sure I'll be using it for many years to come. | 00:54 |
| ajalkane | DrGrov: why back to saunalahti? | 00:54 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: I have never had Saunalahti before, I might test it :) | 00:54 |
| Jare | I was surprised how well voip seemed to work via DNA a couple of days ago, when my friend called | 00:54 |
| Jare | there's no way I could get that low latency with Saunalahti | 00:55 |
| DrGrov | My biggest problem is that I can not seem to find the perfect phone. I gone through 9 or 10 phones in 2 years. | 00:55 |
| ajalkane | hehe... but saunalahti just uses Elisa's network. DNA uses Sonera, right? | 00:55 |
| DrGrov | DNA has its own network | 00:55 |
| DrGrov | Yes? | 00:55 |
| Jare | yep | 00:55 |
| DrGrov | Jare: You mean DNA has its own network correct? | 00:55 |
| Jare | yes it has | 00:55 |
| ajalkane | Hmm... cool... Somenoe tell DNA to start selling multi-sims | 00:56 |
| DrGrov | Ok, I am happy with DNA. Works well in the surroundings where I move | 00:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: can't you just get a 2nd data only line | 00:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pretty sure this multisim arrangement is in no way "normal" | 00:57 |
| ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: Yes I could, but I want it to work also as a phone. | 00:57 |
| ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: when I'm in middle of developing something and testing it, I want to take N950 with me but still receive and make calls with the same number | 00:57 |
| DrGrov | I require multi sim, god damn it. Why does it have to be so hard to get it? | 00:57 |
| DrGrov | Then I could finally breath a sign of relief to have 2 good phones combined and making me smile and not always look like I have betrayed myself | 00:58 |
| ajalkane | I don't get it either. I guess they're trying to cash more money by forcing people to buy multiple accounts. I don't know. It seems stupid to me. I'm not buying multiple accounts. | 00:58 |
| DrGrov | Yeah, feels stupid to keep buying more and more just to get a simple thing as multi sim. | 00:59 |
| DrGrov | I would love to get out in the summer with the "lighter" phone and then when I feel like taking the N9 I could do that as well | 00:59 |
| DrGrov | Certain situations are not that good for a N9 if I must choose which phone. Regular Nokia 50€ phone or a N9. | 01:00 |
| ajalkane | Yep. If it was a piece of cake I would take 3 sim cards, and then I could take Lumia with me to summer cottage. "Oops fell into water, no matter it's just a Lumia!" | 01:01 |
| DrGrov | ajalkane: LOL :) | 01:01 |
| Tronic | I got Mobiililaajakaista Plus just for the multi-sim, so I guess their business does work. | 01:01 |
| DrGrov | Well, I am off. Thanks for the talk | 01:01 |
| ajalkane | cya | 01:01 |
| Tronic | It's not that expensive, anyway, if you mainly use data. | 01:01 |
| ajalkane | Tronic: so calls/sms/mms works on both sims? | 01:02 |
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| Jare | well it depends... it might be a good choice, if you get the promised bandwidth everywhere | 01:03 |
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| Jare | otherwise I'm just going to stick with the cheapest one (512kps) | 01:03 |
| Jare | kbps | 01:04 |
| ajalkane | I have 384, I guess my account is just that old | 01:04 |
| Tronic | ajalkane: SMS are only received on the primary SIM, other than that everything works on both. | 01:04 |
| Tronic | You can even call yourself and it will ring the other phone. | 01:04 |
| Tronic | Normally when someone calls you, both phones ring. | 01:04 |
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| ajalkane | Tronic: okay too bad... but I guess I must live with that as there's no better alternative | 01:05 |
| Jare | I would be interested in testing the more expensive data plans though | 01:06 |
| Jare | just to see how bad qos settings they are using for the cheapest one ;) | 01:06 |
| Tronic | Jare: Elisa has a very good network and you actually do get several megabits even in cities and in far-away locations (like our family summer cabin, in Nauvo, on an island with no roads). | 01:06 |
| Tronic | Compare that to DNA (Welho) which was heavily congested in Helsinki and that I didn't even try in remote locations. | 01:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: wait, so you're capped to umts speed? | 01:11 |
| ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: hmm? UMTS can theoretically go faster, doesn't it? It's in kbps | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ajalkane: vanilla umts only goes up to 384 kb/s both ways | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is what i thought you said you were limited to | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i.e. very slow compared to the various sorts of HSPA | 01:14 |
| ajalkane | yeah, that's what I'm limited to. I have very old account. I think something like 4-5 year old account. | 01:14 |
| ajalkane | But I don't really need anything faster. The latencies are more annoying to me. | 01:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | how much more does it cost to get real speed? | 01:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i was slightly disappointed in 2 Mb/1 Mb speed, 384 kb is pretty lame | 01:15 |
| ajalkane | itsnotabigtruck: seems to be 15€ for 1Mbit/s and 21€ for up to 15Mbit/s (this one I wouldn't trust to give reliable performance) | 01:17 |
| ajalkane | But I dunno... 384 has been plenty for me. I just download feeds and surf web-sites. I'm not streaming videos or downloading torrents with my phone. | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so $28/mo for the HSPA+ service...is there a usage cap? | 01:18 |
| ajalkane | No cap | 01:18 |
| Jare | what? I'm seeing 13.5€/month for the "15Mbps" | 01:18 |
| ajalkane | Jare: I'm looking at Mobiililaajakaista Plus, maybe there's cheaper plans? | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's pretty steep but it also sounds par for the course, and no cap | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though maybe they have some soft cap stuff going on | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. reach 5 gb and you get throttled to 384k | 01:19 |
| ajalkane | I don't think they have, Finland has pretty strict policies nowadays on that kind of stuff. | 01:19 |
| Jare | ah, well it includes an usb modem and multisim | 01:19 |
| ajalkane | I just got a call from my operator about that | 01:19 |
| ajalkane | They lowered my costs because the new laws require they must be able to give what they promise | 01:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | usually tight regulation often causes operators to set up more caps and restrictions | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in order to make sure everything's laid out explicitly while covering their asses | 01:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. "unlimited" turning into a 1gb cap | 01:26 |
| ajalkane | Could be. But Finland is pretty small country. I don't think here's that kind of problems (at least yet) with running out of bandwidth. | 01:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh, true | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though isn't e.g. helsinki pretty dense | 01:29 |
| njsf | bandwidth is a density problem, not absolute dimension IMO | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | right, density is the enemy | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's why cell phone data service is always going to suck in manhattan | 01:30 |
| njsf | well it sucks less because you have pretty dense Wifi coverage by the cell providers too | 01:30 |
| ajalkane | Helsinki has a population of 0.5 million people. It's dense by Finland's standards, but I guess it's globally a laughing stock when talking about dense ;) | 01:31 |
| Jare | nah, data limits are so yesterday's stuff. TeliaSonera is already putting together a content based billing system ;) | 01:32 |
| ajalkane | I guess they want to scare off the rest of their remaining customers? | 01:32 |
| Jare | dunno about that, but I'm sure others will use it in future too | 01:33 |
| ajalkane | I guess by then mobile internet will be unusable for me. | 01:34 |
| njsf | until it is the only option... | 01:34 |
| Jare | ...if there won't be any legislation against it | 01:34 |
| njsf | wired broadband expansion is basically stalled in the US | 01:35 |
| ajalkane | If I was dictator of Finland, I'd already have put some legislation about Elop in place. | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | njsf: aren't AT&T and VZW both actively rolling out their lte networks? | 01:35 |
| njsf | FiOS and U-verse existing markets are well served all others are screwed | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | clear (wimax) is pretty much dead in the water these days | 01:35 |
| njsf | itsnotabigtruck: wired LTE ?! never heard of it | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oops | 01:36 |
| njsf | and yes, VZW and ATT want the world | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i didn't see the wired part :p | 01:36 |
| njsf | where wireless internet has greater advertised speed | 01:36 |
| njsf | specially since "net neutrality" does not apply there | 01:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, it comes down to comcast and fios most of the time | 01:37 |
| njsf | and they can make up whatever filtering they want | 01:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and fios rollout has pretty much stopped | 01:37 |
| njsf | I could have 100 Mbps from my cable provider | 01:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and comcast really only upgraded their network where verizon put fios in | 01:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can already get 50 Mb/s from comcast, if you're in an area that has fios, and you're willing to pay through the nose | 01:38 |
| njsf | but when I had 30Mbps I noticed I never used more than the "basic account " 15Mpbs anyway | 01:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (it's well past $100/mo) | 01:38 |
| njsf | so I save a lot a month there | 01:38 |
| njsf | for 100$ I could get 101Mbps | 01:38 |
| njsf | now I have 15 for 30$ | 01:38 |
| njsf | which you could say is a worse deal that 100 for 100$ | 01:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the thing is that a large portion of servers on the net don't have wide enough uplink themselves to fill very fast residential connections | 01:38 |
| njsf | but why pay $70 for capacity I am not using... | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that and lots of bottlenecked routes | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | even if they cap your connection at zillions of megs, you can rarely ever use more than 20 megs or so unless you're connecting to something a) nearby, b) on a fast pipe | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i mean, that sort of thing is why CDNs are so huge now | 01:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=25305&stc=1&d=1330731753 | 01:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | cool, it's a landscape keyboard layout that's like the n900 | 01:45 |
| ajalkane | sleep time, cya later | 01:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, only thing that counts are MT / cell | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | so in a "dense" area, get more smaller BTS | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I know urban areas where distance frome one BTS to next is <150m | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | O know of skyscrapers where they got per-floor BTS | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/O/I/ | 02:05 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: I know of skyscrapers where they got per-floor BTS | 02:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or rather, s/BTS/enodeB/ | 02:06 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: but then if you start sticking base stations just wherever, uplink becomes a problem | 02:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | not really | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's already bad enough at a normal cell site, as opposed to some mini-station that's put somewhere with less than ideal connection | 02:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | VDSL everywhere, and microwave beams in the 50..80GHz band are usually easy to install and offer lots of bandwidth as well | 02:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm | 02:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | the future are femtocells anyway | 02:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, i'm not so sure about the deployment specifics, but i do know that uplink saturation is one of the big problems slowing down 3g networks right now | 02:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a major reason why the telcos are so desperate to get people using less data | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | err uplink from MT to EnodeB? | 02:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not sure about the terminology, but uplink from the cell site to the internet | 02:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's backbone | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | dealt with that in my ost above | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | post | 02:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | except that stuff usually *isn't* deployed | 02:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | ?? | 02:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hell, until recently afaik it was common to run a cell site off a few T1s | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd guess already >50% of BTS/EnodeB are connected to plain 220V mains and a microwave beam | 02:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | they already sell the calibration data of the beams to weather forecast, as they change with air humidity | 02:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | guess i need to look into this stuff more, totally thought usually it was a wired connection | 02:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a wired connection that you can't just put wherever you want, and costs a ton | 02:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm | 02:22 |
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| djszapi | beford: ping | 02:24 |
| Jare | microwave beams grr.. at least in Finland they are using the money to fibre optic networks | 02:24 |
| djszapi | I have an N9 64 GB (black) for sale in Finland for 360 EUR. Brand new. | 02:25 |
| djszapi | if anybody is interested in this. | 02:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | interesting...apparently apple is imposing a code signing arrangement on OS X | 02:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it can still be opted out of, but it's on by default | 02:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sort of like harmattan's unsigned app toggle in the options, but that sortof thing is unheard of on the desktop | 02:31 |
| pa | hey, apparently there+s one app to push SMS to imap | 02:33 |
| pa | just realized | 02:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | itsnotabigtruck: I thought next redmond megavirus also comes with signature check for apps | 02:46 |
| pa | i dont remember who was advicing me the backup utility for sms | 02:51 |
| pa | but it doesnt seem to me it does sms backup | 02:51 |
| pa | at least i cannot find the sms | 02:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: i think that's through their app store only, but it's a step in the same direction | 02:52 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | and i think win8 tablet might enforce it | 02:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm writing off win8 tablet though, it'll be useless | 02:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | looking further into apple's system however, it looks like it only checks signatures on files downloaded through the browser | 02:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's more of an advisory thing than an enforced thing | 02:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it looks like both apple and microsoft want to head down that road | 02:53 |
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| pa | do you know whether harmattan api allow an application to "hide" a contact? | 03:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no :p | 03:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (i don't know) | 03:32 |
| djszapi | anybody willing to test my qt5 patch update on Mac ? | 03:36 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82375 | 03:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what happens with the virtual keyboard on N950 | 03:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (is it enabled at all, and if so, does it have different behavior from N9) | 03:46 |
| djszapi | ofc it is enabled. | 03:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because it seems like it would make sense to arrange to shut off the virtual keyboard entirely if a bt keyboard is connected | 03:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as opposed to hacking each and every app to disable the vkbd, no thanks | 03:46 |
| djszapi | since you can "fold" your device, if you would not like to have this outfolded big size for no real reasons. | 03:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: right, but then perhaps it would have different behavior when you slide it out | 03:48 |
| tehdely | it should really copy the Symbian behavior | 03:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. having the 950 open suppresses the popup keyboard | 03:48 |
| tehdely | which is to do precisely that | 03:48 |
| tehdely | if you slide out a physical keyboard, or attach one via bt | 03:48 |
| tehdely | then there is no vkb | 03:48 |
| tehdely | i am kinda surprised this is not the behavior | 03:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it looks like the problem with the terminal wasn't the virtual keyboard appearing in and of itself, it was input focus | 03:49 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: I almost never used it slided out | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you hide the terminal's keyboard you can't type into it, apparently | 03:49 |
| djszapi | since it makes no sense to me. | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (hmm, can that be repro'd on 950?) | 03:49 |
| djszapi | the VKBD is just pretty awesome. | 03:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also i should see about buying a compact bt keyboard, that sounds v. neat | 03:50 |
| * djszapi dislikes having a bigger and heavier phone for no real fun when the VKBD is awesome (tm) | 03:51 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's good for most things but it's horrible for the terminal | 03:52 |
| pa | hey man | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mostly because of all that punctuation | 03:52 |
| pa | it looks like there+s syncevolution for harmattan | 03:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the arrows/punctuation bar helps but using that gets really obnoxious really fast | 03:53 |
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| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: you can re-do the layout anytime | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i suppose so | 03:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though that would globally change the layout, not just for meego-terminal | 03:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (i think?) | 03:54 |
| tehdely | what i ahte is | 03:54 |
| tehdely | i am deeply in love with swype | 03:54 |
| tehdely | but it is completely inappropriate for the terminal | 03:54 |
| tehdely | i had no idea you could switch back to regular keyboard with a swipe | 03:54 |
| tehdely | this is a life-saver | 03:54 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: why would you use different layout for different applications ? | 03:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i gave swype a try, couldn't get the hang of it | 03:54 |
| djszapi | why mess up your UX for no real fun ? | 03:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | maybe i didn't spend enough time learning it | 03:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but i prefer exact entry | 03:55 |
| djszapi | choose the best layout you are familiar with, done. | 03:55 |
| npm | expect sometimes the switch back to regular keyboard dies and you have to iconize the app and then re-focus | 03:55 |
| tehdely | i can't use a phone without swype | 03:55 |
| djszapi | I do not understand the complain. | 03:55 |
| npm | in order to get it back... | 03:55 |
| tehdely | it will keep me from ever switching to windows phone, unless they implement Swype | 03:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: because your suggested solution for punctuation and arrow keys being annoying in meego-terminal without a real keyboard was to relayout the virtual keyboard | 03:55 |
| tehdely | probably a good thing ;) | 03:55 |
| npm | s/expect/except | 03:55 |
| npm | that's a weird letter switch | 03:55 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: and | 03:56 |
| djszapi | ? | 03:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which means putting - / ~ ' etc. up front | 03:56 |
| djszapi | go with the one you like | 03:56 |
| djszapi | figure out one you like globally. | 03:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | characters that are seldom used in other applications but often used in the terminal | 03:56 |
| djszapi | also, meegoterminal is hardly a common business use case for an average user | 03:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then you end up with a compromise that isn't that great for anything | 03:56 |
| tehdely | djszapi: it's probably a pretty common use case for the sorts of people buying an N9, thouhg | 03:57 |
| djszapi | plus I doubt why it would be global only | 03:57 |
| djszapi | since SIP attributes can also be done per app | 03:57 |
| djszapi | so it should technologically possible | 03:57 |
| djszapi | so I do not seriously understand the complain. | 03:57 |
| djszapi | sounds like useless whining | 03:57 |
| djszapi | tehdely: not at all | 03:57 |
| djszapi | why would my mom use terminal ? She just does not. | 03:58 |
| djszapi | she does not need it. | 03:58 |
| djszapi | nor my sister, and many people | 03:58 |
| djszapi | you live in a world where you think /user/ phones are bought by hackers. | 03:58 |
| tehdely | your mom should buy a LUMIA | 03:58 |
| djszapi | which is obviously not true | 03:58 |
| djszapi | mostly* | 03:58 |
| tehdely | this is the N9 we're talking about | 03:58 |
| tehdely | the successor to the N900 | 03:58 |
| tehdely | who bought N900s... | 03:58 |
| djszapi | no | 03:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, i was saying on the #n9 channel a few hours ago | 03:58 |
| djszapi | you are quite wrong | 03:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the N9 was marketed as being easy to use | 03:58 |
| djszapi | nobody says that inside Nokia | 03:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but in reality, N9 is not for noobs | 03:58 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: I think you are wrong. | 03:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's like the f1 car of phones | 03:59 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, just because many needed features are not there by default or are hard to enable | 03:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you don't drive your kids to school in a race car | 03:59 |
| Tronic | N9 is for noobs. It just happens to be quite good for hackers as well. | 03:59 |
| pa | for what+s there , its very easy to use | 03:59 |
| djszapi | Tronic: +1 | 04:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it takes a specific set of skills to properly pilot the N9, or you'll stall it or crash | 04:01 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, what couldnt you do, being a noob? | 04:01 |
| djszapi | my mom has no skills | 04:01 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: N9 is easier to use than Android. Yet, the general public seems to be able to handle Android, so... | 04:01 |
| djszapi | nor my sister | 04:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: well, for one, this firmware update is causing problems left and right and rectifying it generally requires not being a noob | 04:02 |
| Tronic | itsnotabigtruck: You mean, if the user had enabled custom repositories and installed software from there? | 04:02 |
| pa | :) | 04:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: having custom software installed wasn't the problem, it's that the rzr and platform sdk repos include packages with higher versions than the actual firmware packages | 04:03 |
| djszapi | what are you talking about ? :D | 04:03 |
| pa | and besides, nokia could save herself a bunch of money and time, by avoiding all these different area roms | 04:03 |
| djszapi | average users like my family members never use our Community Repository I try to maintain. | 04:03 |
| djszapi | platform SDK repository -> even more useless to discuss | 04:04 |
| djszapi | it is not used by average user by any means. | 04:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: that's the thing...most of these firmware problems are a direct result of nokia's own bizarre releasing process | 04:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and anti-downgrade restrictions | 04:04 |
| djszapi | bizarre ? | 04:04 |
| djszapi | anti-downgrade is done for good | 04:04 |
| djszapi | that is one of the most important thing for doing good | 04:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but the SSU failures and messageserver explosions post-update aren't really related to that either | 04:05 |
| pa | djszapi, why so? | 04:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anti-downgrade does literally nothing in the benefit of the user | 04:05 |
| djszapi | anyway, no matter how many people speak the opposite against itsnotabigtruck :P | 04:05 |
| djszapi | he will continue :) | 04:05 |
| djszapi | pa: because many softwares would explode | 04:05 |
| pa | if you downgrade, it+s your problem | 04:05 |
| djszapi | probably the entire system | 04:05 |
| pa | but i dont see why preventing it | 04:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: downgrading the os = reflashing the rootfs = all "softwares" will be gone | 04:06 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: not at all | 04:06 |
| pa | if you have troubles, you should just be allowed to reflash with the latest version | 04:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and moreover, the antidowngrade restriction has the potential to irrevocably screw up phones | 04:06 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: that is a very false understanding. | 04:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sw cert upgrades are pretty much the one thing that isn't easily reversed | 04:06 |
| djszapi | I have updated many times the kernel only. | 04:06 |
| pa | if nokia produce a phone that is easy to brick, nokia sucks. full stop. | 04:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for example, once PR1.3 comes out, suppose the user upgrades to some high-numbered variant | 04:07 |
| djszapi | to get a security fix, or just a new feature in. | 04:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it turns out it's all screwed up and it was a mistake | 04:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and they need to get back to a low-numbered variant | 04:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rrrrnt, downgrade disallowed | 04:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and if PR1.3 ends up being the final firmware release, waiting a new version out can't possibly work | 04:08 |
| djszapi | pa I am not interested in your swearing really | 04:08 |
| djszapi | if you have technical arguments, I might listen | 04:08 |
| djszapi | making a fully awesome product for everyone was not obviously the purpose | 04:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, also | 04:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you just mentioned updating the kernel only | 04:08 |
| djszapi | and the project was beheaded one year ago | 04:08 |
| djszapi | actually even more | 04:08 |
| djszapi | so who cared anymore ? | 04:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | updating the kernel only will put the system into tainted mode anyway | 04:08 |
| djszapi | which world were you living in ? | 04:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so that's obviously not a supported case in any sense | 04:08 |
| djszapi | maybe in Alice's ? | 04:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | downgrading the entire system en bloc is an entirely valid use case | 04:09 |
| pa | djszapi, the thing is you dont have any. saying "downgrading breaks everything" is not a reason for blocking it. if you have problems with that, just reflash | 04:09 |
| pa | what's the problem? | 04:09 |
| djszapi | "updating the kernel only will put the system into tainted mode anyway" -> huh ? | 04:09 |
| djszapi | man, seriously...what do you think core developers did every single day ? | 04:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: use phones with r&d certificates loaded, that's what :p | 04:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in order to update the kernel and stay in secure mode, you need to load a new sw certificate | 04:10 |
| djszapi | it has zero relevance to R&D | 04:10 |
| Tronic | Anti-downgrade is indeed braindead. | 04:10 |
| Tronic | Probably a futile effort at enforcing platsec. | 04:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a new sw certificate will contain a new secondary/xloader/vdata/vhash | 04:10 |
| djszapi | Tronic: it has nothing to do with platsec | 04:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that means that everything has to be upgraded along with that new kernel | 04:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or the phone will a) crash, b) malf, c) boot into open mode | 04:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | d) a combination | 04:11 |
| Tronic | If downgrading is done via flashing, I see absolutely no problem with the user being able to do that. | 04:11 |
| djszapi | Tronic: and ofc, not braindead if you would explode the users' system for fun | 04:11 |
| djszapi | pa: the fact that average users do not wanna reflash | 04:11 |
| Tronic | djszapi: If an older version is broken but the new firmware isn't, the anti-downgrade restriction can prevent users from switching back to a version they can tinker with. | 04:11 |
| djszapi | if they make a stupid mistake for whatever reasons. | 04:11 |
| pa | djszapi, the average user do not downgrade | 04:12 |
| djszapi | pa as we discussed many times it *is* a user phone. | 04:12 |
| Tronic | djszapi: Please, technical facts on "exploding users' system". | 04:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if someone downgrades the phone, it's because they want to downgrade it | 04:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's pretty much impossible to do it by mistake | 04:12 |
| djszapi | Tronic: again, this is a *user* phone | 04:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and if it's my phone, i want to have the final word on what runs on it | 04:12 |
| Tronic | djszapi: I said *technical*. | 04:12 |
| djszapi | my mom is not supposed to flash a broken system for "tinkering". | 04:13 |
| pa | moreover, if you downgrade and you have troubles, you probably know how to restore it as well.. same procedure, new rom. | 04:13 |
| Tronic | djszapi: Exactly how is PR1.1 OFC'ed phone "exploded", compared to how the device was when it was originally received factory-flashed PR1.1? | 04:13 |
| djszapi | Tronic: please do not make me talk about NDA | 04:13 |
| djszapi | first, I am not allowed | 04:13 |
| djszapi | second, read the topic, thanks. | 04:13 |
| Tronic | djszapi: You should keep away arguments that you can only back by claiming that it is under NDA. | 04:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | to be fair, it's possible that a new firmware could write something backwards-incompatible things to the calibration data area | 04:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in fact, there's such a change from PR1.1 to PR1.2 | 04:14 |
| djszapi | Tronic: nah ... you should trust the people doing the system | 04:14 |
| djszapi | and not being stubborn | 04:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however i don't think that would interfere with a downgrade | 04:15 |
| djszapi | that is probably one reason why many nokians are fed up with this channel, and not coming here. | 04:15 |
| djszapi | who likes that when outsiders would like to state the facts what the "real" employees did ? | 04:15 |
| pa | it would be just much more simple and cheap for everybody (including nokia) to just make 1 rom, 1 flasher, make it official, and make it simple to use and impossible to brick. it would be cheap for them, not messing up with 30 different version. it would be easy for the user. | 04:15 |
| djszapi | it is quite rude. | 04:15 |
| djszapi | and saying repeatedly "Nokia sucks" without understanding does not help not being rude either. | 04:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: well, you're right that nokia/etc. has definitely engaged the community a lot more than most other companies do, and i can understand lots of people getting fed up with the constant demands of people, not necessarily realistic | 04:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however, in this case, we're talking about a specific restriction that was put in place, that interferes with actual users, that's justified with fairly specious reasoning | 04:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | OMG it's again a moment where I want to /mode +q somebody that already is on my ignore list | 04:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it would have taken *less* work on nokia's part to not implement the downgrade restriction | 04:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | even the answers to those invisible comments make my ass bleed | 04:17 |
| djszapi | sure, you know this better, too | 04:17 |
| djszapi | like aegis matters. | 04:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | >_> | 04:17 |
| * djszapi is fed up with this "Nokia sucks without I would like, at least, to understand why the ways are done, as they are" | 04:18 | |
| Tronic | pa: If not counting platsec, I actually don't see why all the storage on the phone (except for the flasher code) wouldn't be read/write over USB. That would certainly simplify a lot of things, including full phone backups. | 04:18 |
| djszapi | good luck with swearing guys, I should have listened to the recommendation of some Nokians previously | 04:18 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ... | 04:18 |
| Tronic | Right... | 04:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | did anybody even say "nokia sucks" here? | 04:18 |
| psycho_oreos | nokia sucks | 04:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 04:18 |
| psycho_oreos | period | 04:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | my theory is that they put in the downgrade blocking because that's the way they've always done it on all their phones | 04:19 |
| pa | i didnt want to be rude at dj, but the answer to "thats why nokians dont come here" could easily be "thats why nokia is bankrupting".. | 04:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's the norm and no one questions it, or maybe it's something the telcos want too | 04:19 |
| pa | im sure there are reasons for their area customization | 04:19 |
| psycho_oreos | downgrading was allowed on N900 on the contrary | 04:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: but it wasn't on all of the symbian phones | 04:20 |
| pa | but i see no reason why not making it simple to circumvent | 04:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | right, they could have added another flag to flasher (--downgrade-it-dammit or whatnot :p) that would force it to obey your ill-advised request to downgrade | 04:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and that's that | 04:21 |
| psycho_oreos | itsnotabigtruck, heh I never downgraded on my symbian phone when I had it working. symbian was crap and even updating it was still crap lol | 04:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | psycho_oreos: heh | 04:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | who said "Noians don't come here"? That's plain bullshit, sorry | 04:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it seems like this whole restriction is based on "everything that is not allowed is disallowed" kind of thinking | 04:22 |
| pa | yeah | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | of course | 04:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's the authorized mode of flashing, and there's everything else | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | even worse | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | *I* don't see a usecase for it | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | so let's call all those idiots that ask for it | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | and forbid it | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | no matter what it costs us | 04:23 |
| pa | maybe they are still pissed since the netmonitor hack back in the years :) | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | if Nokia got pissed about anything, then tha's been OC | 04:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | and right so | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | OCer's are mostly idiots | 04:25 |
| pa | they do the same on WM and android | 04:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | that happily ask for a waranty replacement or start whining about "crappy segfaulting system" after they fried their SoC | 04:25 |
| pa | on the other side, nokia hardware has never been exactly bleeding edge | 04:26 |
| psycho_oreos | lol | 04:26 |
| * psycho_oreos relates some of these excessive overclockers to those who put huge NOS on their mum's shopping cart and wondered why the cart idles like pig | 04:27 | |
| tehdely | sounds like Gentoo users! ;) | 04:28 |
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| * psycho_oreos is now reminded of that old gentoo nickname | 04:29 | |
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| * itsnotabigtruck breathes a sigh of relief | 05:47 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | the homework was postponed | 05:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/qf04t/til_thomas_jefferson_reassembled_the_new/c3x53r3 | 05:54 |
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| merlin1991 | itsnotabigtruck: what kind of homewark was it? | 06:46 |
| merlin1991 | *homework* | 06:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | merlin1991: networking | 06:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not terribly difficult, but definitely on the tedious side of things :( | 06:48 |
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| Venemo | hey :) | 10:21 |
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| Venemo | ~seen djszapi | 13:14 |
| infobot | djszapi <~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 8h 56m 18s ago, saying: 'good luck with swearing guys, I should have listened to the recommendation of some Nokians previously'. | 13:14 |
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| veli | Hello, any ideas how to go around this: https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-21908?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:changehistory-tabpanel | 13:34 |
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| SpeedEvil | Find does not support -printf | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | That is all. | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Install gnu find? | 13:41 |
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| veli | SpeedEvil: Thanks. I fixed it in the dh_installdeb ... I'm just writing a tutorial so I was hoping to find a way to do something in the .pro .. But maybe it's better to fix the issue, not try to go around it. | 13:45 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you can't use side-effects in the script to not use printf - then it's pretty fundamental breakage. | 13:50 |
| SpeedEvil | the platform not supporting -printf | 13:50 |
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| rZr | http://rzr.online.fr/q/redak# redak-0.2.0-0 : TexT EditOr : Qt QmL, MeeGo, HarmattaN, n950, n9, MaemO, OpenSource, GpL-3, FlosS @ #n950club | 14:27 |
| deimos_ | I am trying to get desktop size or orientation from a custom item. No problems in qml, but I need to know it within the custom component. QApplication::desktop()->width() and also XGetWindowAttributes() always return 854x480 even if in portrait. Someone can help me please ? | 14:43 |
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| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1173599&postcount=2 | 14:49 |
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| pa | what's the built in media player called, again? | 15:00 |
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| deimos_ | pa: video-suite ? | 15:08 |
| pa | ah right, thanks | 15:09 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | argh, why is blueslee only on for a few mins at a time | 16:35 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | anyone know if harmattan has some system for registering browsers (so they could be selected as default)? | 16:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it seems like, with a bunch of 3rd party browsers now, there needs to be a) a system default browser setting (i think that's already there) | 16:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | b) a menu option to change that setting, and c) all browsers adding choices to that setting | 16:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | opera, firefox, grob, etc. | 16:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure why that sort of thing has always been common on PCs and unusual on phones, even when there's many different popular browsers | 16:50 |
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| npm | itsnotabigtruck: go to settings->applications->web->default browser and set a difft browser | 17:14 |
| npm | unfortunately, firefox gets into big trouble when clicking on twitter links so i went back to stock browser as the 'xdg-settings set default-web-brower' | 17:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | npm: oh, it's already there? /me checks | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | last i looked the web settings were pretty spartan | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | does it appear after installing a third party browser? atm it's just search engine / block popups / remember passwords | 17:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | is there beta4 avilable ? | 17:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | the source and packages? | 17:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/ | 17:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | negative | 17:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | damn | 17:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | would it be avaliable at any point? | 17:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's a platform sdk update incoming but i'm not sure if it's a real update, or just adding some extra packages | 17:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like they did with sdl | 17:30 |
| ZogG_laptop | i need new signon | 17:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1062 | 17:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | "Yes, it is coming in the next SDK update. Very soon, hopefully." | 17:31 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 1062 nor, ---, ---, marcell.lengyel, ASSI, libfcam-dev (camera control API) not available in Platform SDK | 17:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but what you're looking for is a real sdk update, and it doesn't seem like there's been action on bug #715 | 17:31 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=715 maj, ---, ---, ext-lavanya.alamuri, NEW, No platform SDK releases since PR1.1 to match on-device packages | 17:31 |
| npm | itsnotabigtruck: setting the default web browser from settings->applications->web is a new pr 1.2 feature | 17:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | especially since i'm getting the impression that the official position on SDK updates is that ovi stor = pr1.0 = no need for externals to have access to anything newer | 17:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hopefully things will start to change, maybe they will | 17:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: yeah i saw your bug, filled similuar | 17:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | maybe they already are | 17:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: got response - resolved =\ | 17:34 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | npm: ah ok. still haven't installed opera/firefox so i guess it hides the option if there's no alternatives present | 17:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1053 | 17:35 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 1053 nor, ---, ---, ext-tulasi.t.punaganti, REOP, Only pr1.0 components leading impossible to develop using new libs from pr1.2 | 17:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: i just feel bad that i need to writte oauth plugin for several packages from scratch while there is plugin already in the phone | 17:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: yeah, the people doing front-line support on the bug tracker seem to be a little bit happy with the wontfix/invalid button | 17:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i mean, there's probably a lot of external bug tracker entries that deserve it, but then everything just kinda gets lumped together | 17:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you *might* have a bit more luck if you filed a bug specifically asking for signon-oauth2's headers to be included (or whateveris required) | 17:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw are you sure the relevant code isn't open source? | 17:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://gitorious.org/accounts-sso/signon-oauth2 | 17:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and signon's source package is in sdk_sources_pr1.1.iso | 17:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: at least it's the answer while the response "assigned internally thanks" means "went to endless pit of death" | 17:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: heh | 17:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: yeah i added those manually, it didn't help as Signon need to be updated to use it | 17:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: anyway, see if you can scrounge together the headers you need, a surprising amount of this stuff is scattered in various places | 17:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | grab sdk_source_pr1.1.iso | 17:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | build the signon source package that comes with it in your scratchbox | 17:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | install the updated packages | 17:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: i added all plugin headers but need singon | 17:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: i just told you where to get signon | 17:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | liboauth2 was added at pr1.2 so i think changes too | 17:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and you shouldn't just add the headers, you should take the entire signon code and build it into -dev packages | 17:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: as well i use qtcreator | 17:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is surprisingly easy to do | 17:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, be very careful to specify specific versions on your dependencies when you're using new pr1.1/1.2 stuff | 17:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that makes sure your package can't be installed with old libs from an old release | 17:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's would come after | 17:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, install scratchbox | 17:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you really need it if you're doing anything unusual or advanced | 17:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm too nobie for that | 17:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | once you have your -dev packages, you can probably install them into MADDE for qt creator use | 17:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | had it and deleted =) | 17:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you need scratchbox to actually build them | 17:42 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: thats why i need beta4 to get packages | 17:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | ./mad-admin xdpkg -i /tmp/libsignon-qt-dev_8.38-7+0m6_armel.deb | 17:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | 'usr/include/signon-qt/SignOn/libsignoncommon.h' already in sysroot. Can not install. | 17:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | does madde support versions btw? | 17:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://gitorious.org/accounts-sso/signon/trees/pr1.2 | 17:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://gitorious.org/accounts-sso/signon-oauth2/trees/pr1.2 | 17:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | grab those | 17:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i have no idea w/r/t madde, apparently not i guess | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | can you tell madde to uninstall something? | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if so then uninstall/reinstall i guess | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ^^ are the pr1.2 version branches you need to build | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and anything else here: https://gitorious.org/accounts-sso/ that you might find yourself needing | 17:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | yeah but i wouldn't be able to build | 17:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sure you can, scratchbox scratchbox scratchbox :D | 17:48 |
| ZogG_laptop | me noobie noobie noobie =) | 17:48 |
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| e-yes | hi | 17:53 |
| e-yes | what's revision of rapu on n9? is it the same like n900 have? | 17:54 |
| jonni | that question does not belong to this channel, sorry, cannot answer on details that most likely are under NDA. | 17:58 |
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| e-yes | NDA? is it a joke? specs for rapu was opened long time ago (wirelessmodemapi) | 18:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | speaking of wirelessmodemapi.com...what happened to that site | 18:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it went down a few weeks ago | 18:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | thought it was just a temporary outage but i just checked and it's still down | 18:21 |
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| e-yes | itsnotabigtruck, that's renessance territory since 2010. may be they just want to discontinue support of complicated binary protocol? | 18:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e-yes: the N9 schematic just says RAPUYAMA | 18:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i can't find much from googling, just changelogs from all those dodgy 3rd party flashing hardware/software outfits | 18:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the latest nokias apparently use RAPUYAMA 2.1, so that might be a good guess | 18:28 |
| e-yes | itsnotabigtruck, yeah, I know. But there are at least two versions(types in terms of ofono) of rapu. afaik n900 uses first version (w/ bsi) | 18:31 |
| e-yes | not sure about n9. btw, bsi == sleep_ind ? | 18:31 |
| npm | interesting how spotify refuses to run as soon as you have dlna sharing enabled on PR 1.2 :-) | 18:32 |
| npm | i was all like hey, 5 hrs of http://open.spotify.com/user/1211624606/playlist/0SDfjSg7WBhdoHYKyUdl2s ... DLNA... win! | 18:34 |
| jonni | I have dlns sharing on and spotify runs just fine? | 18:35 |
| jonni | dlna even | 18:35 |
| npm | oh not dlna i mean media sharing | 18:35 |
| npm | as in USB plugged into router | 18:36 |
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| npm | which otherwise works :-) | 18:36 |
| jonni | you mean mass storage mode? | 18:36 |
| npm | yeah | 18:36 |
| npm | sorry | 18:36 |
| jonni | well because it mounts the drive to your pc, and it cannot connect to it internally, has been always a feature in pr1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 | 18:37 |
| npm | ah interesting. sounds like an app needs to be written to turn it on and off via web :-) | 18:38 |
| * npm adds to feature list | 18:38 | |
| * npm of MediaTator | 18:38 | |
| jonni | npm: nothing interesting in there it just tries to write cache files to drive which is not avail. | 18:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | npm: btw, get ad-hac! http://n9-apps.com/ad-hac | 18:39 |
| npm | interesting. alas, i try to not use wireless network at all.... got a reverse-tethering solution?? http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=5753 | 18:41 |
| npm | it's one of the reasons i leave my SIM in the lumia... so that it stays many feet away from me while radiating cancer | 18:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | npm: erm, right | 18:43 |
| npm | and since i "handle" my developer device alot, i prefer that radiation to be elsewhere | 18:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well anyway, you can control anything network related from develsh | 18:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | make sure to always do devel-su -s /bin/develsh | 18:44 |
| npm | i can't add do '/sbin/route' | 18:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | even better, change root's default shell to develsh | 18:44 |
| npm | otherwise i'd be there already | 18:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | are you sure you develsh'd? | 18:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | being root isn't enough | 18:44 |
| npm | yeah see the forum thead | 18:44 |
| npm | thread | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and using devel-su will drop all caps | 18:45 |
| npm | hm | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, i looked at the thread, and i see nothing about develsh | 18:45 |
| npm | so how should i develsh | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is why i'm suspicious | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | devel-su -s /bin/develsh | 18:45 |
| npm | oh ok intersting | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that opens a root shell with all developer capablities | 18:45 |
| npm | thanks for de-rectifying my head :-) | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 18:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | remember that on normal linux, su'ing will add *all* linux capabilities | 18:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with aegis, su'ing just changes UID | 18:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and devel-su is an aegis-aware su that drops all capabilities you had before su'ing | 18:46 |
| virtuald | isn't that how it should be with any mandatory access control system in place? | 18:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you have to get those capabilities back afterward | 18:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: right, i'm not faulting aegis for that | 18:47 |
| virtuald | 8] | 18:47 |
| npm | i've been sitting behind qtcreator for several months, had temporary amnesia :-) | 18:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's plenty of things to fault aegis for but ^ is just mac in action | 18:47 |
| virtuald | is the mac policy documented somewhere? | 18:48 |
| qronic | itsnotabigtruck, if I'll change user's shell from /bin/sh to develsh is it gonna work how it supposed to? | 18:52 |
| jonni | npm: you should run route add default gw as user and not as root, ;) or you get permission denied | 18:54 |
| npm | develsh worked. n950 ~ # /sbin/route add default gw 192.168.2.14 | 18:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | qronic: think it will, though i don't know if there's much benefit to that | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, never uninstall develsh once you've done this, heh | 18:58 |
| qronic | developer user can change it back :) | 18:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: aegis doesn't really use a 'policy' per se | 18:58 |
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| npm | any reason why i shouldn't edit /etc/resolv.conf ??? (not in /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist ( | 18:59 |
| virtuald | what does it use then? | 18:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | npm: because the default works fine, it runs dnsmasq locally to smoothly handle dns server changes | 18:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: accli -I will display which permissions you have at the moment | 18:59 |
| qronic | I have to say that PR1.2 on my N9 (especially new app closing mechanism) makes my N9 just perfect, love this phone | 18:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | each .deb package comes with an "aegis manifest" that asserts privileges for the binaries/scripts it includes | 19:00 |
| virtuald | o.O | 19:00 |
| virtuald | what does my IMEI have to do with permissions? | 19:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | installing the .deb merges that info into the system policy | 19:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so there is a policy, but it's based on what packages you have and it changes all the time | 19:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however, you can't just request any privilege on a normal installation, because only nokia-signed packages are allowed to use the good ones :p | 19:01 |
| pa | one thing that is not fully clear to me:say i write my little software, i package it, i try to install without doing anything strange. Do i get stopped by aegis? | 19:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so a number of privileges, the installer will refuse to add for your app | 19:01 |
| npm | the only thing wrong with my N9 is that it's missing 48Gb of memory :-) | 19:01 |
| npm | but i'm not complaining :-) | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: no, your program just gets run with the privileges of the program it was launched from | 19:02 |
| npm | given the low low cost :-) | 19:02 |
| pa | oh i see. so there's no way to create something that runs suid root or something? | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: it's possible to make a package restricted to a particular IMEI | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's probably why it lists it with the capabilities | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's also possible to restrict by mode | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: sure there is, in fact aegis makes it really easy to make something suid root | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | WAY too easy | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just put <capability name="UID::root" /> in your aegis manifest | 19:03 |
| pa | but then what is that we cannot do but nokia can? | 19:03 |
| virtuald | i could probably fake my imei if i wanted to | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: mount things, manipulate the device lock screen, replace system packages with customized versions, setuid/setgid, modify any file anywhere (dac_override) | 19:04 |
| pa | ah, root cant mount stuff? | 19:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and a lotof other things | 19:04 |
| npm | so how does gtalk manage to reboot your phone during update, and do the scary looking "recovering upgrade" thing after reboot | 19:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with the default aegis configuration, you aren't ever allowed to have full root access | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | only half-root access through develsh | 19:05 |
| npm | it's gotta be the most antisocial upgrade on the planet.... no warning... just bloop reboot | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | basically, aegis keeps you from customizing the system | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it allows you to do lots of 'normal' and even not-so-normal things in an app | 19:06 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | but it doesn't let you seize the system and customizing the everloving **** out of it :p | 19:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *s/customizing/customize/ | 19:06 |
| npm | and i guess i should have takjen picures of the "recovering upgrade don't turn off your phone" | 19:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | npm: you're talking about the video chat enabler, right? | 19:06 |
| npm | yeah | 19:06 |
| npm | gtalk | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think it just has a postinst script with "reboot" in it | 19:07 |
| npm | works great, otherwise | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not actually gtalk specific and it's not an update to anything gtalk related | 19:07 |
| pa | no customization = replacing system packages you mean? | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a package that does nothing but run a program that edits some config files to turn on the vidcalling capability that was already in pr1.2 | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: and other things, yeah | 19:08 |
| npm | well it rocks, but i wish it came preinstalled so i didn't have to see the sausagemaking | 19:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | actually it is possible to replace some system packages | 19:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's also possible to hose your phone doing that :p | 19:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and for many packages, you can't get back all the privileges that the old package had | 19:09 |
| pa | ah i see | 19:09 |
| pa | so if you boot open mode, you can do what you want, right? | 19:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you boot open mode you can install packages that let you do what you want, yeah | 19:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it doesn't switch off aegis, it just adds a side door you can use to take control | 19:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that means you still have to understand aegis, there's no getting around that | 19:10 |
| pa | then you can boot back "non-open" and use your cool hacks? | 19:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, you can't | 19:10 |
| npm | wow so you could potentially run stock apps without pulseaudio for example (most music-making apps would benefit from talking straight to bluetooth or dac via alsa) | 19:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | starting with PR1.2, once you boot open, you can't boot non-open without wiping everything | 19:11 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | but for all releases, installing a package (and therefore obtaining privileges) in open mode | 19:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | will cause it to be unbootable in closed mode | 19:11 |
| pa | but besides the boot warning, is there anything else when you boot open? | 19:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as in downsides? just the warning | 19:11 |
| pa | ah ok | 19:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just make sure you expunge EVERYTHING when going into open mode | 19:12 |
| pa | expunge? | 19:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you should place your phone into open mode immediately after a comprehensive flash | 19:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as in, wipe | 19:12 |
| pa | say i want to reflash with 1.2 now | 19:12 |
| pa | (i still have 1.1) | 19:12 |
| pa | can i keep my phone open, without any other hassle than the boot warning? | 19:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think you might want to wait a bit before going open mode | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if you want to do it | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a) flash main + emmc from pr1.2 | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | b) reboot, then *immediately* reconnect to the bootloader | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i.e. flasher -R, then flasher -i | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | c) boot (not flash) the rescue kernel off this page http://wiki.meego.com/N950/Fixing_MALF_state | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the disclaimer should immediately appear | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | d) wait a little while, then unplug the usb and it'll reboot again | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so what that does is put a completely clean factory-new pr1.2 install on there, then taint it by booting the unauthorized kernel | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that way there's nothing left over from closed mode that will cause aegis problems | 19:15 |
| pa | i see.. thanks for the guide :) i mean i probably dont need open mode after all... | 19:16 |
| pa | at least not at the moment | 19:16 |
| pa | even it would be nice to mount smbfs | 19:16 |
| * npm adds 'gnote' 'itsnotabigtruck on Harmattan OpenMode' ---> thanks! | 19:19 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 19:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also it might be possible to skip that reboot/reconnect step in between | 19:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not 100% sure about those steps, they should work but i don't think anyone's tested them exactly yet | 19:21 |
| npm | hey itsnotabigtruck here's more apps to write :-) http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking#Using_USB_networking_for_Maemo_applications | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the thing is that it depends on whether the new bootloader is used to boot the rescue kernel | 19:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you do that right after flashing | 19:21 |
| npm | re: "Install libicd-network-dummy from Fremantle Nokia-binaries repository or better libicd-network-null from extras-devel, and when USB networking is up pickup "Dummy network" from the connection manager." | 19:22 |
| npm | ^^ for n900 not n9 | 19:22 |
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| jonni | itsnotabigtruck: well there is atleast one downsides to be in open mode. | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: that being? besides the disclaimer | 19:29 |
| jonni | itsnotabigtruck: in open mode cal-area is readonly, and in closed mode its rw. | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ah, interesting | 19:29 |
| beford | hi | 19:30 |
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| djszapi | Venemo: now, I am here. | 20:05 |
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| e-yes | itsnotabigtruck, n9 has the same cellmo like n950. and very likely n900 too (but connected in a little different way) | 20:18 |
| e-yes | FYI: http://lists.ofono.org/pipermail/ofono/2011-December/012111.html | 20:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e-yes: yeah, it looks like all nokia ti-based devices use RAPUYAMA | 20:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | RAPIDO is freescale | 20:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw how functional is ofono these days | 20:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | would it be possible to eliminate CSD and telepathy-ring (CSD version) on the n9, and install ofono and telepathy-ring (ofono version), and have it work? | 20:20 |
| e-yes | without modifying dbus clients - no | 20:20 |
| Venemo | djszapi, hey, it turned out that my stupidity was the main cause of the bug | 20:21 |
| e-yes | but basic functionality works: calls, messaging, ussd, data | 20:21 |
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| Venemo | djszapi, now I'm sucking with QtDBus :( | 20:21 |
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| djszapi | Venemo: QtDbus ? | 20:30 |
| djszapi | you mean with the simple Dbus api ? | 20:30 |
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| djszapi | QtDbus is just a very lightweight wrapper. | 20:30 |
| djszapi | thin* | 20:35 |
| djszapi | beford: pingy | 20:38 |
| beford | hey djszapi | 20:39 |
| djszapi | beford: Could you please test an updated version of the qt5 patch, please ? | 20:39 |
| djszapi | on Mac, that is. | 20:39 |
| beford | ok | 20:39 |
| beford | brb let me turn it on | 20:40 |
| djszapi | many thanks in advance | 20:40 |
| djszapi | beford: http://paste.xinu.at/AlV/ | 20:41 |
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| bef0rd | djszapi | 20:42 |
| djszapi | bef0rd: http://paste.xinu.at/AlV/ | 20:42 |
| bef0rd | do I need to update it or something? | 20:42 |
| bef0rd | i just did git reset | 20:42 |
| djszapi | I am not sure how it can be done apart from git reset --hard HEAD && git am | 20:43 |
| djszapi | I should probaly ask on #git | 20:43 |
| bef0rd | its ok I have just applied | 20:43 |
| djszapi | make sure git reset --hard HEAD~1 does not delete the build directory contents. | 20:43 |
| djszapi | otherwise it is a full qt5 rebuild for the qtbase... | 20:43 |
| djszapi | also, make sure you execute the "make" command only inside the qtbase folder | 20:44 |
| bef0rd | ok | 20:44 |
| djszapi | no need to reconfigure if you still have the existing clone | 20:44 |
| djszapi | make should re-run the qmake functionality. | 20:45 |
| bef0rd | yea its the same build, it seems to be going ok for now | 20:45 |
| djszapi | but the build files are even intact actually, so "make" should be enough after applying. | 20:45 |
| djszapi | bef0rd: tests/auto/corelib/kernel/qtimer/tst_qtimer is the binary on Linux to run after the build | 20:47 |
| djszapi | to get the unit test run. | 20:47 |
| djszapi | everything should pass | 20:48 |
| Venemo | djszapi, yeah. but I found what I was missing :) | 20:50 |
| Venemo | djszapi, the notifications now have icons and the app now appears when you click on them! :) | 20:50 |
| djszapi | :) | 20:51 |
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| Venemo_N950 | this stuff is awesome! :) | 20:55 |
| Tronic | What stuff? | 20:55 |
| Venemo_N950 | my irc client :) | 20:55 |
| Tronic | mmkay. | 20:55 |
| leinir | proof! :O | 20:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you know what would be cool? a USB security token (think like etoken) with a microusb interface | 20:55 |
| leinir | (aka, pics or it didn't happen ;) ) | 20:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that could be used with usb host mode | 20:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for storing private keys securely off your N9 for ssh, email decryption, etc. | 20:56 |
| Tronic | Btw, do any of those tokens have their own display and buttons for choosing which actions to approve? | 20:57 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: well, obviously there's lots of different kinds of tokens - the sort of thing i'm talking about doesn't have any screens or buttons | 20:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a sealed device that holds private keys and signs/decrypts with them, after logging into it with a password | 20:58 |
| Tronic | I have been thinking the device itself needs to have a display & button because otherwise the (untrusted) host could abuse the device once authenticated. Also, if the password is entered on the host, that can be leaked as well. | 20:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://www.amazon.com/Micro-USB-Male-Female-Adapter/dp/B0027YYMU6 i suppose something like that would work, though i bet it's not thin enough | 20:59 |
| Venemo | leinir, get it from http://venemo.fedorapeople.org/harmattan/ or wget http://j.mp/AnIUbk on your N9(50) | 20:59 |
| leinir | Venemo: that's a package, not a picture ;) | 21:00 |
| Venemo | leinir, indeed. | 21:00 |
| Tronic | But if the device had the keys on it, a display for showing what is being authenticated and a keyboard for entering pin, it would actually be secure. | 21:00 |
| djszapi | Venemo: changelog ? | 21:01 |
| Tronic | E.g. the display could show "PAYMENT 500 € TO SHOPNAME" and once approved by entering the pin, the device could sign that message with its private key. | 21:01 |
| * djszapi is trying out either way | 21:02 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | Tronic: yeah, there's been various attempts at that, it's usually called "transaction signing" | 21:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also the banks have moved away from public key tokens entirely | 21:02 |
| Venemo | djszapi, https://gitorious.org/colorful-apps/irc-chatter/blobs/master/debian/changelog | 21:04 |
| Venemo | djszapi, I'd like to know whether your favourite bug is present | 21:05 |
| djszapi | Venemo: you might wanna detail the last point. | 21:05 |
| Venemo | djszapi, the bug which caused random text to appear in your message text field | 21:06 |
| djszapi | last point, as in the last point of the changelog... | 21:06 |
| bef0rd | djszapi beford.net/random/buildlogX | 21:06 |
| djszapi | for the newest release. | 21:06 |
| djszapi | http://imagebin.org/201843 -> so true | 21:06 |
| Venemo | djszapi, also, news to you: there is now a bugzilla accepting bugs for IRC Chatter: http://bit.ly/nemoappsbugs - component is "IRC Client" | 21:07 |
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| djszapi | bef0rd: tst_qtimer.cpp:161: error: ‘QVERIFY’ was not declared in this scope | 21:08 |
| * djszapi is looking into the code | 21:08 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://djbogtrotter.co.uk/2012/03/02/retold/ | 21:08 |
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| djszapi | bef0rd: could you please modify that to VERIFY2 ? | 21:10 |
| djszapi | from VERIFY(... ? | 21:10 |
| * djszapi wonders who this worked at all previously on any platforms... | 21:12 | |
| * djszapi does not usually like macros | 21:12 | |
| djszapi | how* | 21:12 |
| bef0rd | where is that file | 21:13 |
| djszapi | I mean pretty sure it is some macro related issue on Mac. | 21:13 |
| djszapi | it might be a a more benevolent situation for Linux and Windows. | 21:13 |
| djszapi | bef0rd: ./tests/auto/corelib/kernel/qtimer/tst_qtimer.cpp -> line 161 | 21:14 |
| djszapi | bef0rd: also, could you please wrap your build log on the website somehow ? | 21:14 |
| djszapi | it is hard to read :/ | 21:14 |
| beford | I can't, its just a text fle the wrapping is done on your browser. just wget it next time, let me change it | 21:18 |
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| djszapi | have you made the change and rebuild ? | 21:25 |
| bef0rd | yes its going ok now :) | 21:25 |
| djszapi | okay, it confirms my theory about the macro crappyness xD | 21:29 |
| beford | but that's weird no? | 21:30 |
| beford | its supposed to use gcc on all the plataforms | 21:30 |
| bef0rd | 28 paased 0 failed | 21:32 |
| djszapi | bef0rd: macro is a prepocessor thing | 21:32 |
| djszapi | it is like an editor, not compiler. | 21:32 |
| djszapi | well, thing is that macro can mess up in zillion ways. | 21:32 |
| djszapi | bef0rd: can you show the test run output ? | 21:33 |
| bef0rd | http://paste.kde.org/432830/ | 21:33 |
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| beford | brb | 21:34 |
| djszapi | thanks | 21:36 |
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| djszapiN9 | Venemo_N950, yes, the annoying bug is still present | 22:15 |
| djszapiN9 | reproduced in about couple of seconds. | 22:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, ok | 22:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapiN9, so, when you switch channels, the text field will contain garbage? | 22:17 |
| djszapiN9 | i do not even need to change channels. | 22:17 |
| Venemo_N950 | ok, I'll investigate immediately | 22:18 |
| djszapiN9 | even if i click on the input field, it randomly happens. | 22:18 |
| Venemo_N950 | hm. | 22:18 |
| Venemo_N950 | okay, I'll look into it | 22:19 |
| djszapiN9 | make sure 1) you erase it properly 2) nothing overwrites it, just the vkbd | 22:19 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapiN9, all right | 22:20 |
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| djszapiN9 | all the hw kb obviously. | 22:21 |
| djszapiN9 | or* | 22:21 |
| djszapiN9 | afaik iy is prolly not complete random garbage most of the time. | 22:22 |
| djszapiN9 | it* | 22:22 |
| Venemo_N950 | what I don't understand is why it never occours for me. | 22:22 |
| djszapiN9 | and it happens in any input fields. | 22:23 |
| djszapiN9 | not just the chat one. | 22:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, seriously? | 22:23 |
| djszapiN9 | it also yakes place in the search field of the user list. | 22:23 |
| djszapiN9 | takes* | 22:23 |
| djszapiN9 | I am noy kidding, no. | 22:23 |
| djszapiN9 | not* | 22:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, and the server settings dialog, channel join dialog too? | 22:24 |
| * djszapi needs to work now on other stuff | 22:28 | |
| Venemo_N950 | ok :) | 22:30 |
| Venemo_N950 | thanks for looking at it djszapi :) | 22:30 |
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| djszapi | Venemo_N950: two things scare me off about irc-chatter | 22:31 |
| djszapi | 1) This very issue 2) It is not available in Ovi | 22:31 |
| djszapi | and these make me use the other one available in Ovi. | 22:31 |
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| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, you already told me, and I'm working on it! | 22:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, scrolldown is buggy too. | 22:35 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, have you found other bugs? | 22:36 |
| djszapiN9 | of course :p | 22:37 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: are you worried the text corruption problem = symptom of a security bug? | 22:38 |
| djszapiN9 | of course not. | 22:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | could be corruption caused by a heap overflow somewhere | 22:39 |
| djszapi | ...we need fixes, not advises :) | 22:39 |
| djszapi | everybody knows how random content can get into a variable. :D | 22:40 |
| djszapi | advices* | 22:40 |
| djszapiN9 | Venemo_N950, you mean the scrollbar in the user list ? | 22:41 |
| djszapiN9 | I am not sure it is a good idea to have all those settings. | 22:43 |
| djszapiN9 | like text cursor focus. | 22:43 |
| djszapiN9 | monospace front is imo awkward, too. | 22:43 |
| djszapiN9 | why do you use words instead of colora ? are you afraid of the colorblind people ? | 22:44 |
| djszapiN9 | the time stamp switch does not function here. | 22:45 |
| djszapiN9 | show event text is way too long | 22:46 |
| djszapiN9 | i would just write show events, if any | 22:46 |
| djszapiN9 | and maximum a user guide icon with relevant action. | 22:46 |
| djszapiN9 | you might wanna put email into the about dialog | 22:48 |
| djszapiN9 | or the url to the nemo bug report thingie | 22:48 |
| djszapiN9 | I wiuld probably put the log in there as well. | 22:49 |
| djszapiN9 | to make it less dull | 22:49 |
| djszapiN9 | i | 22:51 |
| djszapiN9 | would personally use columns, and not rows in the settings for the several irc channels inside the given server. | 22:52 |
| Venemo_N950 | hmhm | 22:52 |
| djszapiN9 | flicking is simple, editing a long row is not. | 22:52 |
| Venemo_N950 | long row? | 22:53 |
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| djszapi | yes, with many channels inside | 22:54 |
| djszapi | also, adding yet another server killed irc-chatter here completely. | 22:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, where should i obtain the latest irc chatter | 22:55 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: read the log | 22:55 |
| djszapi | he just mentioned few lines above | 22:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | got it, http://venemo.fedorapeople.org/harmattan/irc-chatter_0.2.90_armel.deb | 22:56 |
| Venemo | djszapi, how many servers are you talking about, and which one is the other? | 22:56 |
| djszapi | Venemo: 1 + 1, irc.debian.org | 22:56 |
| Venemo | djszapi, so, 2? | 22:57 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: grob doesn't seem to like your download | 22:57 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | probably the mime type | 22:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | make sure your server maps .deb to application/x-deb | 22:57 |
| djszapi | Venemo: yes | 22:57 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950_: sup | 22:57 |
| Venemo | djszapi, worksforme | 22:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950_: new version of irc-chatter? | 22:58 |
| Venemo | ZogG_laptop, yes, but apparently it does not work for anybody else | 22:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo: want me to try? | 22:58 |
| Venemo_N950_ | if you want | 22:58 |
| ZogG_laptop | if you want | 22:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950_: ui nitpicks: the settings screen section headers don't look harmattanized | 22:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think they're right-justified normally, and in a smaller font | 22:59 |
| Venemo_N950_ | itsnotabigtruck, mhm. | 22:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950_: maybe, just maybe you finally upload it to apps for meego and i would try and report any update =) | 22:59 |
| Venemo_N950_ | ZogG_laptop, it's still buggy. | 22:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also consider putting a harmattan-style banner at the top of the main screen | 22:59 |
| Venemo_N950_ | itsnotabigtruck, on the starting page? | 23:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950_: yeah, and anywhere else appropriate | 23:00 |
| *** Venemo_N950_ is now known as Venemo_N950 | 23:00 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | SSL should change port to the standard of 6697, not 7000 | 23:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | freenode now supports port 6697 | 23:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | grob? | 23:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: the web browser | 23:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | n9 ones? | 23:01 |
| ZogG_laptop | never heard of this | 23:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950: if the server config page doesn't like your input, it displays a pop-up notification that sticks off the top of the window | 23:01 |
| djszapi | grob is one, not ones. | 23:01 |
| djszapi | it is the builtin web browser on Harmattan... | 23:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: grob = the web browser that comes with the N9 | 23:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not called grob anywhere obvious, but that's what it's called | 23:02 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi: mate, stop doing it | 23:02 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, it's supposed to be a standard InfoBanner | 23:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | maybe the servers should be able to have nicknames | 23:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, ok :) | 23:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm imagining replacing the main screen with a) a harmattan banner saying IRC Chatter, b) a list of servers by user entered nickname, c) the slider switch to the right | 23:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: yeah it said wrong format but than asked me to save as.. | 23:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like it is now, but condensed basically | 23:03 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, the info banner works for me correctly. what's wrong with it? | 23:04 |
| djszapi | please do not add nickname to the server | 23:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950: it sticks off the top of the window | 23:04 |
| djszapi | please do not do that on desktop either. | 23:04 |
| djszapi | and the server address is already there anyway | 23:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, could you please make a screenshot of it? | 23:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: why not? e.g. you'd name the entry for irc.freenode.net, Freenode | 23:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: btw colour rss is yours as well? | 23:04 |
| Venemo_N950 | ZogG_laptop, ?? | 23:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | the app | 23:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there isn't a way to abort the connection, is there | 23:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think it's stuck | 23:05 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, there isn't. yet. | 23:05 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: because it makes no sense | 23:05 |
| djszapi | just even more cluttered settings page, and it is already not simple. | 23:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950: should be trivial to repro on PR1.2 | 23:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | blank the nickname field on an N9 set to english | 23:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tap save | 23:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, it appears correctly for me. | 23:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, obviously I would have fixed it otherwise | 23:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: ssl is 6667? | 23:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | could you please make a screenshot and upload it to somewhere? | 23:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: no, 6697 | 23:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950: hold on, this takes time | 23:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | that's why i can't connect | 23:07 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, ok | 23:07 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: it says connectng and no error or anythig fro a while | 23:07 |
| Venemo_N950 | ZogG_laptop, what's the console output? | 23:08 |
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| ZogG_laptop | syslog or you want me to start from console? | 23:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | venemo_n950: http://i.imgur.com/UKQR8.png | 23:09 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: I would not change the port for SSL tick. | 23:09 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, thanks | 23:09 |
| djszapi | it does not matter from user POV, what port it is | 23:09 |
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| djszapi | you do not pass that to irssi either, just -ssl | 23:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: irc servers are on all sorts of different ports | 23:10 |
| Venemo_N950 | the user should know what port the server is on. imo. | 23:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for irc in particular, the port is really important | 23:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there should be a default port, of course | 23:10 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: yes, but that has nothing to do with the SSL tick. | 23:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you mention irssi, irssi also lets you set the port | 23:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: you do realize that with irc, ssl requires a different port | 23:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | irc servers have non-ssl ports and ssl ports, and they're different | 23:11 |
| Venemo_N950 | I let you set the port too. | 23:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | specifying -ssl with irssi changes the default port it uses | 23:11 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: but I would not like to mess up as a user | 23:11 |
| djszapi | I simply do not care | 23:11 |
| djszapi | all I care is ticked. | 23:11 |
| djszapi | and the "default" server port. | 23:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | mhm | 23:12 |
| djszapi | that is how it is done in irssi with the -ssl option. | 23:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, btw, the timestamp setting works, but only for new messages | 23:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, the port has to be able to changed. that's not an option. | 23:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however, it would be a good idea to segregate some stuff out to an advanced settings section | 23:12 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: can you ping me in 2 minutes please ? | 23:12 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: error popup is half visible | 23:12 |
| djszapi | I will try this time settings | 23:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, yes. | 23:12 |
| Venemo_N950 | ZogG_laptop, yeah, itsnotabigtruck already told me :) | 23:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. hostname, nickname, SSL, and autojoin channels are important | 23:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the other stuff...meh | 23:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: seen screensht? | 23:13 |
| Venemo_N950 | ZogG_laptop, yep | 23:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | is it considered harmattan-ish to have an expando area with advanced settings in it? | 23:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: got an error | 23:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | does qml include such a widget? | 23:13 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: also, please expose the delete of the servers outside | 23:13 |
| djszapi | not inside the settings | 23:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | reconnecting to server "irc.freenode.net" | 23:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | QAbstractSocket::connectToHost() called when already looking up or connecting/connected to "irc.freenode.net" | 23:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | IrcSessionPrivate::_q_error(): QAbstractSocket::SocketError( 13 ) | 23:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | backend for "irc.freenode.net" has been disconnected from the server | 23:14 |
| djszapi | you can probably use icons instead of long texts. | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: isn't delete-inside a harmattan style thing | 23:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | but it still showing that's it's trying to connect | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. accounts ui does it | 23:14 |
| Venemo_N950 | ZogG_laptop, pastebin | 23:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: yeah i know but only 4 lines | 23:14 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: no | 23:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as it stands, irc chatter just doesn't feel native | 23:14 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, it didn't fit into the outside layout | 23:14 |
| djszapi | if you have edit button outside, delete button should be there too | 23:14 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, ok | 23:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, ok | 23:15 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: then just remove the edit | 23:15 |
| *** ZogG_N9 has joined #harmattan | 23:15 | |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, then how would you edit? | 23:15 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: just tap | 23:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | ok it's connnnected while it was not ssl | 23:15 |
| djszapi | remove connect to | 23:15 |
| djszapi | too* | 23:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | ssl on 6697 failed | 23:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950: on the subject of the servers screen again - instead of having two states (not connected, connected) | 23:15 |
| djszapi | Venemo: put it inside | 23:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | make it so that you can disconnect and connect to any server at any time | 23:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, it's so | 23:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the connect switch shouldn't control whether to connect when the user taps the checkmark, but instead tell it to connect right away | 23:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it ought to work like the NFC switch in settings | 23:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, menu -> manage servers | 23:16 |
| *** djszapiN9 has joined #harmattan | 23:16 | |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: the bottom panel has changed? | 23:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, works exactly as you say | 23:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | it looks not native | 23:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | aspecially with not one color | 23:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | ZogG_laptop, it has changed, yes | 23:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: the old one looked better imho | 23:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | ok. | 23:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | where flipping the switch greys it out and causes the rotating indicato AAAHH SSH LAG | 23:17 |
| djszapiN9 | Venemo_N950, ping | 23:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, causes the rotating indicator to appear next to the switch | 23:17 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, pong | 23:17 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: thanks. I like the new toolbar better. | 23:17 |
| Venemo_N950 | itsnotabigtruck, hm? | 23:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo_N950: no, it doesn't work as i say | 23:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | currently, when you're on the servers screen, the switches control which servers you want to connect to *later* | 23:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: rotation should be in settings, auto/landscape/portrait | 23:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what i'm suggesting instead is that the switch is directly linked to whether it's connected *right now* | 23:18 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: you could probably have a little bit longer (wider) input text field. | 23:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which makes it work like the harmattan settings screen | 23:18 |
| bindi | I just sold my Galaxy Nexus and went back to N900 D: | 23:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | where changes are live | 23:18 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, when you start the app, you need to tell it which servers you want it to connect to. | 23:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also btw i can't get this to connect...i'm not sure if it's a problem on my end or what, but it just stalls | 23:19 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, when you're already connected, you can go to "manage servers" where the changes are immediate. | 23:19 |
| djszapi | Venemo: I suggest you a listview for the servers, as I use those. | 23:19 |
| djszapi | simple ListItem with my additions from master. | 23:19 |
| djszapi | edit for tap, done. | 23:19 |
| djszapi | very simple and usable. | 23:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: ah, haven't gotten there yet | 23:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, whoa | 23:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a) somehow irc chatter saved my server settings with no nickname entered | 23:20 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, how is somehow? | 23:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | b) editing the server and tapping save caused the settings screen to not slide completely out of view | 23:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it was left at the bottom of the screen | 23:20 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, I have no idea about that. | 23:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then it disappeared a little while after | 23:20 |
| Venemo | I use the standard Harmattan components... | 23:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it looks like the bar at the bottom isn't getting redrawn | 23:20 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, worksforme. but as I said, I use the standard components, so there's not much I can do there. | 23:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: it's still stalling on irc.freenode.net, port 6697, ssl on | 23:21 |
| *** Venemo_N950 has quit IRC | 23:21 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it works normally, it just happened this one time | 23:21 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, try port 7000 | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's not "worksforme", it's, haven't found it yet | 23:22 |
| * djszapi feels more and more "Port" is useless from user point of view | 23:22 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: no go | 23:22 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, so it works sometimes and it stalls sometimes? | 23:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: no, i still haven't been able to connect to freenode | 23:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'll try my own irc server | 23:25 |
| djszapi | works for me. | 23:25 |
| *** djszapiN9 has quit IRC | 23:25 | |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, works for me on the default port and also on port 7000 when I set SSL | 23:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: does it work if username and realname are left blank? | 23:26 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, yes, it should. | 23:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just tried my own server, it's still stuck | 23:27 |
| Venemo | ah, port 6697 causes an QAbstractSocket::SslHandshakeFailedError | 23:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'll try connecting to 3g | 23:27 |
| Venemo | on freenode at least. | 23:27 |
| djszapi | Venemo: bug here: delete the port, tick SSL, try to save | 23:27 |
| djszapi | see the cropped info banner text. | 23:27 |
| Venemo | I saw. | 23:27 |
| djszapi | (portrait mosw) | 23:27 |
| djszapi | mode* | 23:27 |
| Venemo | djszapi, yep, you are third to mention it :) | 23:28 |
| djszapi | right | 23:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, switching to 3G didn't help | 23:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | using port 9999 now | 23:29 |
| *** djszapi has left #harmattan | 23:29 | |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, why would switching to 3G help? | 23:29 |
| *** longthen1 has quit IRC | 23:30 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: /me shrugs, just testing another variable | 23:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you have an ssl error with port 6697? | 23:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw there should also be an option for whether to validate the ssl certificate | 23:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: are you testing with SSL enabled? | 23:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i just got connected to freenode, but only by turning ssl off | 23:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think SSL connections are just plain broken atm | 23:34 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, i'm liking irc chatter a lot more now that i'm connected | 23:35 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck :) | 23:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the actual chat view is pretty stylish | 23:35 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, you are right! it seems that something is indeed wrong with SSL | 23:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the pop-up menu has a margin at the bottom if a server is selected, but not if a channel is selected | 23:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also it looks like really long words (like urls) don't get wordwrapped | 23:37 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, yep, because menu items change when a channel is selected | 23:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also somehow i entered "left:left:" into the input box by tapping around the window | 23:38 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, yep, you found djszapi's favourite bug | 23:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh heh | 23:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | regarding the menu, but it should still have a margin all the time, right? | 23:39 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, I dunno, that's a standard component too. but perhaps there are a bit too much items in it. | 23:39 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, that bug... that is something I couldn't reproduce for about half a year now. | 23:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: yep, that's it | 23:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | 7 items is exactly enough to cause scrolling to kick in | 23:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so maybe try to stick to either 6 or less, or more than 7 | 23:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | quit can probably be eliminated in favor of just using the top-to-bottom swipe | 23:41 |
| Venemo | ok | 23:42 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, I deleted it :) | 23:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yay | 23:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, is there any sort of context menu in QML | 23:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the yes/no prompt when you tap a username doesn't seem very elegant | 23:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but i don't think context menus are very n9ish | 23:44 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, well, if you have a better idea, I'm listening :) | 23:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 23:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: might it be possible to make it so that tapping a username, instead of displaying the copy/paste markers, displays a query marker instead? | 23:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but since the existing behavior is probably hardwired into the qml widget, it would probably be a huge task | 23:45 |
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| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, correct. the existing behaviour is wired in the text area. even the ability to tap on a username is a hack :) | 23:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: /msg Venemo http://zogg.tumblr.com/post/18684845227/how-you-shouldnt-manage-your-shit | 23:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | oops =) | 23:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | meh, whatever =) | 23:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 23:50 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | ZogG_laptop: well, i think we already covered that in actuality, everything is available for you to use signon | 23:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a shame that nokia has allowed its sdk to become dated | 23:52 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | but there is something you can do about it, and it's not that hard | 23:52 |
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| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, btw, I plan to eliminate the page which says "Connecting, please wait", but it's not trivial. | 23:53 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, anyway, thanks for noticing the SSL bug, I now fixed it | 23:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | cool | 23:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: what happens if you connect to a net without a valid cert | 23:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which btw is a whole lot of them | 23:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | itsnotabigtruck: i can do, as well as i can write my own or use other oauth lib, but it's not right ways, i think Nokia should help developers and not making it harder | 23:55 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, well, by design, SSL errors were ignored. however, there was a very stupid mistake which caused a regression. the issue was not the SSL cert | 23:56 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, you also got a title banner and prettier title labels :) | 23:56 |
| Venemo | I'll make a new package soon | 23:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Venemo: heh | 23:56 |
| Venemo | itsnotabigtruck, could you please join #irc-chatter ? I'd like to ask you more about the other bug | 23:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok | 23:57 |
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