IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-03-01

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ZogG_laptopmardy: ping00:07
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AranelAny ideas to change security lock timeout from background? any API or gconf key or something?00:25
DocScrutinizerAranel: if aegis wasn't completely configured fubar, it's forbidden00:29
DocScrutinizerAranel: inadvertently setting timeout to 1s might well piss off user00:30
Aranelah, I was planning to provide a manual lock app/shortcut, I was thinking of setting it to immediate, initctl restart devicelockd and set it back again.00:30
Aranelsince locking screen API is not provided -at least with current credentials- either :|00:31
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DocScrutinizersame cheese, different flavour00:31
DocScrutinizeractually a nice example why aegis CONCEPT isn't helping to solve the targeted problem00:32
Aranellooks like there isn't a workaround for this, and Nokia guys closed my bug report with a WONTFIX, so there won't be any manual security lock option.00:32
DocScrutinizer*some* user might get fsckd by *some* app abusing it, so it's not allowed for *any* user and *any* (non-Nokia-)app :-/00:33
Aranelwell I asked Nokia to behave nice and provide lockscreen creds or develop a lock themselves (would take my 5, their 3 mins~), with no luck :|00:33
Araneland that's why I really, REALLY want to go open-mode :)00:34
DocScrutinizerhonestly, if aegis was configured correctly (based on 'correct' policies), it shall forbid printing chars to screen00:35
DocScrutinizeras printing chars to screen also has potential to fsck *some* users with *some* rogue app00:35
njsfOk, so for reference00:36
njsffenix stores the email in /home/user/.qmf00:36
Aranelalso, I think that's why something like Ovi QA (which is slower than a snail) is already in place00:36
njsfand removing it made it work again after the PR 1.2 mess00:36
Aranelto stop *some* malicious apps.00:36
njsfnow its just the pain of restoring the apps00:36
bluesleerescue images for n950 stopped working properly for the n9 since pr 1.2, checked this with a clean pr 1.2 flash00:37
DocScrutinizerhonestly, CBA to seek for more headache with this HARM thing00:37
DocScrutinizerit's fundamentaly FUBAR00:37
DocScrutinizerI really prefer andidiot over HARM00:38
DocScrutinizerat very least antridot has *a future*00:39
* DocScrutinizer ponders to kick himself for trolling00:39
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bluesleemy n9 is messed up, suffering from bug 123 and restoring full backups with rescue image does not work properly as pr 1.2 behaves different than pr 1.2, i get immediately warning messages when flashing the rescue images00:39
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, REOP, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots00:39
itsnotabigtrucki just wrote a guide about firmware flashing00:40
itsnotabigtruckshould i post it in the meego/harmattan forum or n9/n950 forum on tmo00:41
itsnotabigtruckalso blueslee: yeah, i ran into that first00:41
itsnotabigtruckyou have to do a full flash00:41
itsnotabigtruckmaybe you could test this guide i just wrote :p00:41
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: i did a full reflash and then the rescue images, the n9 shows up the warning (!) and does not reboot properly00:42
itsnotabigtruckblueslee: that's the problem, booting the rescue image after installing PR1.2 immediately puts you into open mode00:43
itsnotabigtruckif you want open mode, that's an easy way to get it00:43
itsnotabigtruckotherwise, don't ever use the rescue image after installing pr1.3200:43
itsnotabigtrucki posted an alert on tmo but no one really noticed it00:43
itsnotabigtruck maybe you could bump the thread :p00:44
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: missed your alert as i was in an endless reboot cylce with my n9:-)00:44
itsnotabigtruckalso, your N9 still should have been able to boot00:45
itsnotabigtruckit would have just been in open mode00:45
itsnotabigtruckand with the disclaimer every boot00:45
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: open mode was safe in the sense to get always back right?00:45
itsnotabigtruckyeah, you can always undo open mode by doing a comprehensive flash00:46
bluesleecan you post your guide?00:46
itsnotabigtrucki was waiting for someone to advise on which forum to use, i just put it in n9/n95000:46
itsnotabigtruckthe thing is that everybody's talking about flashing stuff in the other forum00:46
bluesleewow, thats a comprehensive book:-)00:47
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: so there is a chance to restore my backups done with the rescue image?00:47
bluesleeno or?00:48
bluesleei backuped home, rootfs and mmc with dd_rescue resp tar00:48
bluesleeif i restore it i will break the open mode again00:49
bluesleelets read the guide00:49
itsnotabigtruckblueslee: hmm...loopmount the stuff and selectively restore things using scp00:50
itsnotabigtruckafter turning devmode on00:50
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bluesleenokia shoot me in my knees again with this change of behaviour00:55
bluesleefirst the annoying bug which is not solved in pr 1.2 and now i cant restore my "full" backups properly00:56
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bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: thanks for the unoffical firmware server00:57
bluesleei used a perl script for that00:57
itsnotabigtruckAranel njsf DocScrutinizer: any chance you could look over that forum post i just linked and see if you find anything that looks wrong?00:57
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: i will go the open mode asap, i am sick of those restrictions01:01
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: variant code downgrade is disallowed? I never noticed that one, what a dumb restriction.01:01
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itsnotabigtruckcrap, why does this guy keep asking questions and then quitting, argh01:03
itsnotabigtruckAranel: iknowright01:03
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Aranelitsnotabigtruck: It looks okay, at least for GNU/Linux part.01:05
tehdelyi still haven't seen a good explanation of what Open Mode actually is01:06
tehdelyand what its drawbacks are01:06
tehdelyanyone want to give me the executive summary?01:06
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Aranelinfobot knows.01:08
infobotNot as well as [NewsBot]01:08
tehdelyi'm just trying to get up to speed with years' worth of posts on the forums01:08
tehdelyi've had my N9 for a whole day01:08
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: that's because there's been a lot of misinformation and stuff01:09
Aranelopen-mode = wonderland, where Aegis no more cares about anything, gives away credentials, and shows you a scary notice on boot.01:10
itsnotabigtruckanyway, it's a mode that the N9 goes into if it detects you've done unauthorized things01:10
itsnotabigtruckit a) displays said scary notice every reboot01:10
itsnotabigtruckb) enables an override in aegis that lets you install stuff with any permissions01:10
itsnotabigtruckentering open mode from closed mode tends to break stuff though, so you should only try to activate open mode right after doing the "comprehensive reset" in my guide01:11
AranelI think Aegis just bricks the device (=MALF) if it detects unauthorized things. Open-mode is only activated if you install an unsigned kernel.01:11
itsnotabigtruckAranel: starting with PR1.2 open mode stays enabled until you completely reflash, once you trigger it01:11
tehdelyMALF... expand acronym please01:12
AranelI remember there was a bulls** app from Nokia, named Air UI, drove Aegis crazy and brick ppl's devices because of security concerns.01:12
itsnotabigtruckit's the screen that says "Device malfunctioning" that appears if you do certain things that aegis doesn't like01:12
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: oh, that's not nice :<01:12
itsnotabigtruckit doesn't "brick" per displays the screen, then reboots after a certain amount of time01:13
tehdelyso "Open Mode" is something that I can enable by flashing an alternative kernel01:13
itsnotabigtruckhowever, if you have something that triggers a MALF early in the boot process01:13
tehdelyand it is also something that I can revert by reflashing to factory images01:13
tehdelyam i correct so far?01:13
itsnotabigtruckthen it'll boot, MALF, boot MALF, and so on01:13
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itsnotabigtruckand that will cause it to brick after it realizes it's in a reboot loop01:13
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: until it drives you crazy and you remove /var/malf :p01:13
tehdelyand does an Open Mode kernel exist for 1.201:14
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: no "open mode kernel", but you don't need that kernel to be in open mode01:14
itsnotabigtruckthat's why it's called a mode01:14
itsnotabigtruckhowever, what the patched kernel that DocScrutinizer made is cause su'ing to give you standard linux privileges01:14
DocScrutinizernot made by me01:15
Aranelafai remember reboot-loop MALFs are avoidable, if you find a way to end that loop from outside or if it decides to stop that madness.01:15
itsnotabigtruck*made does is cause01:15
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: hm? i thought everything on your site is from you or nokia01:15
itsnotabigtruckanyway, also the patched kernel disables all permission checks01:16
itsnotabigtruckbut that isn't really just open mode - it's open mode + a kernel with a hacked aegis01:16
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itsnotabigtruckyou can still do open mode things without it01:17
tehdelyok so how do i enter this mode01:17
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itsnotabigtrucktehdely: look at the guide i posted, and continue through the "comprehensive reset", but stop before rebooting01:18
itsnotabigtruck go there and grab the rescue kernel/initrd01:18
itsnotabigtruckthen do: flasher --kernel=kernelfile --initfs=initfile -l -b01:18
AranelI think there was some bugs against open-mode, are they fixed?01:18
itsnotabigtruckit should near-immediately display a disclaimer screen01:19
itsnotabigtruckwait maybe 30 seconds then disconnect the usb01:19
tehdelygotcha, so i want to first do a clean flash to pr1.2 (emmc, the works)01:19
tehdelyand _not_ reboot01:19
tehdelythe phone won't reboot on its own?01:19
itsnotabigtruckalso i'm not 100% sure that procedure works if you weren't already on pr1.01:19
itsnotabigtruck*already on pr1.201:19
tehdelyok so i do the comprehensive reset01:20
tehdelythen my immediate next step is to flash with the rescue kernel/initrd01:20
tehdelyat no point in this process have i rebooted the phone01:20
itsnotabigtruckon second might have to do this01:21
itsnotabigtrucka) do the comprehensive flash, including the flasher -R01:21
itsnotabigtruckthis powers off the phone01:21
itsnotabigtruckpull the usb right after you do it01:21
itsnotabigtruckb) do flasher -i again and reattach the phone01:21
itsnotabigtruckc) do that flasher --kernel stuff01:21
itsnotabigtrucki'm not 100% certain about either procedure because i never actually put my phone into open mode together with a flash01:22
tehdelywhy all this tight timing with the USB01:22
tehdelywhat's the race01:22
itsnotabigtruckbecause simply having the phone attached to a powered usb boots it01:22
tehdelyyou did in fact explain this phenomenon yesterday01:22
itsnotabigtruckthat's also why you only need to attach the phone after doing flasher -i01:23
itsnotabigtruckthat boots it right after you plug in01:23
tehdelyi should probably also install flasher so i can see what these flags actually mean01:23
itsnotabigtruckheh yeah01:23
itsnotabigtruckit has integrated help, it isn't very good but it helps01:23
tehdelyso when 'flasher -i' is running and i attach a phone01:23
tehdelythe attached phone goes into some flashing mode01:23
tehdelyinstead of booting?01:23
itsnotabigtruckit's possible to skip flasher -i and go straight to the real commands, but it seems like it only works 100% of the time with the flasher -i step01:24
itsnotabigtruckotherwise you have weird timing problems01:24
tehdelyi'm just going to go ahead and assume you're doing all of this from a linux system?01:24
itsnotabigtrucknah, windows01:24
tehdelyi can only run windows in a VM01:24
itsnotabigtruckthe flasher utility works exactly the same way in linux01:25
itsnotabigtruckbut downloading images is inconvenient without navifirm01:25
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tehdelyso, in this Open Mode, are there things known not to work?01:27
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tehdelyalso, i don't quite understand what happens after i boot the phone with that rescue kernel01:28
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: i don't think there's any issues provided that you follow the procedure exactly01:28
itsnotabigtruckearly on people didn't realize you had to nuke the phone before and after open mode01:28
tehdelyopen mode persists across further reboots, yes?01:29
DrGrovAny new news on PR 1.2 for N9 ?01:29
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens is that the bootloader flips a bit in the calibration data region (CAL)01:29
itsnotabigtruckbecause you loaded an untrusted kernel01:29
itsnotabigtruckand every boot after that, it checks that and puts you into open mode01:29
itsnotabigtruckthat behavior is new in PR1.2 btw - it didn't do that before in PR1.101:29
itsnotabigtruckended up being a nasty surprise for blueslee and myself01:30
tehdelyand are there things i can expect _not_ to work as long as the phone is running in Open Mode01:30
itsnotabigtruckas far as i know, everything works - if it had DRM features those would probably turn off01:30
itsnotabigtruckbut it doesn't01:30
tehdelyi read mention of things to do with passwords, or proprietary apps01:30
itsnotabigtruckthose were mostly due to not actually nuking the phone01:30
itsnotabigtruckif you have any issues, please report them, you can always go back to closed mode by doing another comprehensive reset01:31
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: well, it's out for all the unlocked phones now01:31
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ah, it is. Damn this. I have not been monitoring close enough then :/01:31
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: check out my flashing manual i just wrote01:32
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: You probably suggest a backup first before updating to PR 1.2 ?01:32
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: yeah01:33
itsnotabigtruckand then flash it through my guide, because SSU (auto upgrade) seems to not be worth it01:33
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Is it enough to do the backup on the device with the built-in backup app?01:33
DrGrovWhat is the issue with the auto upgrade from the device?01:33
itsnotabigtrucki don't think it'll capture everything...i think some people lost their angry birds saves01:33
itsnotabigtruckback up /var/opt01:33
itsnotabigtruckthe problem is that it's slow, fails a lot, and freaks out in a number of cases01:34
itsnotabigtrucklike if you have any unofficial repos added to apt01:34
JackaLXI'm happy to report that my 1.2 update went flawlessly and I've not found any issues with the phone since.01:34
DrGrovI was hoping to see something on the device that there would be an update available. This is a surprise.01:34
itsnotabigtruckalso it starts reindexing your phone after you upgrade, which makes the new version feel slow for a while01:35
tehdelyso as long as the phone is in 'open mode' it displays some ominous warning on every boot, but that's it as far as inconvenience?01:35
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: it's a very ominous warning01:35
tehdelypray tell01:35
DrGrovJackaLX: Did you update with the built-in updater on the N9?01:35
itsnotabigtruckthe most ominous warning you've ever seen01:35
itsnotabigtruckthe very sight of the ominois warning can paralyze mere mortals01:35
JackaLXDrGrov: yes (you mean via SSU, yeah?)01:35
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DrGrovJackaLX: Yes, through the phone.01:36
DrGrovJackaLX: How long did it take for you to get it downloaded, installed and upgraded?01:36
JackaLXhmm, hour and a half maybe01:36
DrGrovJackaLX: What type of backup did you do before you started the upgrading?01:37
JackaLXwasn't paying that much attention to the time... too excited about the shiny lol01:37
tehdelyi demand to know the contents of this warning01:37
tehdelyi want to make sure it's something i can stomach01:37
tehdelyhot DAMN that is ominous01:37
itsnotabigtruckyou've been warned, about the warning01:37
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tehdelynow does nokia actually know that i've PERMANENTLY VOIDED THE WARRANTY01:37
tehdelylet's say something fails and i ship it off to an NCP01:38
tehdelyas long as i reflash first i should be cool, right?01:38
JackaLXtehdely: well they'll know the first time they switch it on and have that warning hit them in the face LOL01:38
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure if anybody knows for sure01:38
DrGrovJackaLX: Or more like that what did you do in order to back up?01:38
tehdelyi wonder if there's an equivalent of that water damage dot :>01:38
itsnotabigtruckif you stuff up your openmoded phone, definitely do a comprehensive reset before even thinking about sending it in01:39
itsnotabigtruckbut that won't help if the hardware is completely kaputt01:39
TronicDoes Nokia even use moisture indicator dots?01:39
JackaLXDrGrov: I just used the stock "backup" thingy on the device.  But because everything went without a hitch, it was a pointless exercise for me.  YMMV of course01:39
itsnotabigtruckit's possible that a bit is flipped somewhere that nokia could check01:39
DrGrovJackaLX: Ok, I will use the stock backup app on the device then first. I hate to see something messed up lol01:39
TronicN900 at least has no moisture indicators but I haven't disassembled other devices. I have successfully RMA'ed a disassembled N900, though.01:40
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TronicMost likely the Nokia service guy won't bother to check for such things if the fault is clearly elsewhere.01:40
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itsnotabigtruckbtw @everyone who hasn't looked at it yet:
itsnotabigtruckif you're familiar with the matter let me know if i'm off the mark on any of that01:41
DrGrovCan someone tell me how big that PR 1.2 update is? I am thinking if I need my faster connection or not for it01:41
DrGrovOr if I can do it on the road if needed01:41
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: SSU is 250 megs01:42
DrGrovOk, then time to get the faster connection01:42
DrGrovIt will otherwise kill me to have my 2Mbit connection on the road01:42
DrGrovBut thanks, I will update come weekend since it takes time anyhow01:44
DrGrovThanks for the help guys01:44
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JackaLXitsnotabigtruck: that's an excellent write-up on flashing.  Is that article "sticky"? Should be if not01:45
itsnotabigtruckJackaLX: i was thinking about asking for it to be made so, maybe once it gets a bit more attention01:46
JackaLXMight be worth mentioning the perl script that can retrieve eMMC images in Linux01:48
itsnotabigtruckbut thanks01:48
itsnotabigtruckoh and yeah01:48
itsnotabigtruckonce admiral0 makes his script download emmc images i'll probably put that in place of that website i linked to01:48
itsnotabigtruckfor now the website seems easier01:48
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: if you're going to openmode your phone now, let me know if my instructions worked01:49
JackaLXfor me the perl script is 1000 times easier :-)01:49
itsnotabigtrucksince they're kinda speculative01:49
JackaLXis the script I'm talking about the one you are?01:50
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itsnotabigtruck this one?01:52
itsnotabigtruckJackaLX ^01:53
tehdelyitsnotabigtruck: i'm not doing it till the weekend01:53
tehdelyjust in case of brickage01:53
JackaLXitsnotabigtruck: yeah, pretty sure that's the one I use01:54
tehdelymy micro-SIM to SIM adapter hasn't arrived, so i can't currently switch back to my symbian phone in a jiff if i hork things01:54
tehdelyand this is my main squeeze01:54
itsnotabigtruckJackaLX: right, so both it and the website use the NSU update server, which only has main firmware images01:55
itsnotabigtruckbut a while back somebody found the care suite server, which has all the files01:55
JackaLXcould of sworn it had all the files already. :-(01:56
* JackaLX checks again01:56
itsnotabigtruckhmm...if it does let me know01:57
itsnotabigtruckthere should be 2 DFL61_HARMATTAN files01:57
JackaLXah, no, it doesn't01:57
JackaLXhas simlock files, the main image, and a couple aux files I know nothign about01:58
itsnotabigtruckyeah, and that other stuff isn't necessary at all for flashering01:58
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JackaLXstill worth mentioning in that article though01:59
itsnotabigtrucki need to release my enhanced adhoc wifi tweak now that PR1.2 is out02:01
JackaLXus old foggies would choose a command line alternative over a steenkin web browser any day of the week lol02:02
itsnotabigtruckin PR1.2 they changed it from "Device malfunctioning" to "Device not working properly"02:09
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tehdelyis it true that they disabled ad-hoc in the US to comply with FCC regs?02:09
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: yup02:09
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tehdelyi find that particularly interesting since they don't even sell the phone here02:10
tehdelywhat gives?02:10
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itsnotabigtruckso i'm going to have to write disclaimers all over this saying it's not my problem if running my app causes black fcc helicopters to home in on your location02:10
itsnotabigtruckand take you to a top secret underground federal communications commission detention center02:10
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itsnotabigtruckhmm, looks like that MALF thing isn't a pr1.2 change...but i could swear when i did it to my phone it said "malfunctioning"02:12
itsnotabigtruckand tehdely: but they have to pass FCC certification either way02:13
itsnotabigtruckan unlocked phone that you couldn't take with you into the US would be kinda undesirable02:13
itsnotabigtruckof course no one's really going to check, but...02:13
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itsnotabigtruckalso, they were probably originally going to launch here02:13
itsnotabigtruckteam elop neutering the N9's launch plans wasn't really anticipated02:13
itsnotabigtruckin fact at&t was probably considering shipping the N9 at some point, their logo is all over the icons directory02:14
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tehdelyitsnotabigtruck: oh that's interesting02:15
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itsnotabigtruck lol @ this nokia dev blog post asking people not to flash02:20
itsnotabigtruckon one hand, there probably is some sort of logic to their releasing arrangement, but on the other hand, flashing /works/02:21
itsnotabigtruckoh, also, tehdely: regarding the wifi adhoc thing, what's really funny is that they allowed an app onto ovi that specifically overrides it
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ieatlintthe post really makes sense... they're trying to disuade you from doing something that could brick your device02:28
ieatlintis it likely to brick your device? no.. but it's hard to criticize them for warning you and saying it may not be covered by a warranty02:29
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: right...the post is actually fairly reasonable02:29
ieatlinthappily my last n9 got the 1.2 update today02:29
itsnotabigtrucksome nokia people have said some not entirely reasonable things about it, this is basically saying "unofficial things are unofficial"02:30
ieatlintthe comments also give some helpful info on failed updates02:30
itsnotabigtruckright, but they're failed updates using the mechanism that very blog post says to use :p02:31
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itsnotabigtruckbtw ieatlint: any chance you could look through and let me know if it looks like i'm off the mark anywhere?02:33
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franz`did anyone try this yet?02:41
franz`I'm excited at the possibility of a working avahi daemon02:41
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befordi dont even know what is avahi, but i support it02:41
itsnotabigtrucki saw it, haven't tried it02:42
itsnotabigtruckit's a shame there hasn't been much of a response02:42
itsnotabigtruckcome on guys, make some replies :p02:42
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befordI think I configured avahi mdns in order to get the mpd client of the ipad autodetect it02:42
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DocScrutinizer51avahi? is poettering02:44
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''02:44
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JackaLXhaha, yup, that pretty much describes him02:45
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franz`aww, I love avahi02:46
franz`most of my network is macs though, so I guess that plays onto it02:46
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer51: o.O good luck making your "word" stick02:48
itsnotabigtruckanyway, just figured out that it's possible to pay for stuff in ovi store by credit card by turning on flight mode, starting the store, and letting it turn on wifi02:48
itsnotabigtrucka lot easier than doing the poweroff/remove sim/boot/buy/... exercise02:49
DocScrutinizer51took me like half a year to relize it's actually the recently introduced avahi that's the culprit when linux machines suddenly wouldn't get any DHCP lease anymore in heterogenous LANs02:49
DocScrutinizer51some years ago when that cra.. errr stuff was new02:50
itsnotabigtruckblame apple and the ietf then02:50
itsnotabigtruckmostly the ietf02:50
itsnotabigtruckalso i thought that APIPA biznus only kicks in if obtaining a DHCP lease fails first02:51
DocScrutinizer51meh, I blame lennart for forcing it into each and every distro, just like PA02:51
DocScrutinizer51and then I happily kick avahi off my lawn02:52
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DocScrutinizer51and things start to work like a charm again02:53
tehdelyok so this is funny02:53
tehdelymy N9 decided it was at 2% battery about 40 minutes ago02:53
tehdelyand has been warning me about low battery ever since02:53
tehdelyi was hoping it would drain and fully power off02:53
tehdelybut that is not what has occurred!02:53
tehdely$ lshal | grep battery.charge_level.percentage02:53
tehdely  battery.charge_level.percentage = 4  (0x4)  (int)02:53
tehdelynow we're up to 4%!02:53
tehdelyha ha02:53
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itsnotabigtruckyeah, the battery charge meter is notoriously funky02:54
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befordi think there is a thread about that on TMO02:54
tehdelyi wonder how much battery this thing actually has02:54
itsnotabigtruckdon't drain it too far though or you'll have problems02:54
DocScrutinizer51no surprise02:54
tehdelyi'm trying to give it a full run down02:54
itsnotabigtruckyou better put it on usb pronto02:54
tehdelyoh really?02:54
tehdelywhat happens if it fully discharges02:54
tehdelyis it like a Tesla Roadster02:54
itsnotabigtruckit has to have charge in order to charge02:54
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tehdelyoh geez it is like a Tesla02:54
befordwho invented that02:54
itsnotabigtruckit's the best catch there is02:54
tehdelywell how am i going to complete my experiment if i don't know how long it lasts on a single charge02:54
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itsnotabigtruckwell, i don't think it's that easy to get into that situation actually02:55
tehdelyit will, i assume, power off at some point to preserve whatever trickle of power it has02:55
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure what you have to do to drain it far enough that it won't boot into charge mode02:55
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TronicI must wonder how do they manage to create systems that cannot use power from the charger when the battery is entirely drained.02:56
DocScrutinizer51n900 charged without booting first, and N9 is supposed to do exactly same02:56
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itsnotabigtruckit does? why does it boot into act dead mode then02:57
DocScrutinizer51it's just extremely slow on charging that way02:57
franz` 2263 root     avahi-daemon: running [Nokia-N9.local]02:57
itsnotabigtruckand i've heard about boot loops where it boots, refuses to boot because it's discharged, then boots again, over and over, because it's attached to usb but drained02:57
franz`not starting on boot though, odd02:57
DocScrutinizer51why it bootas into act_ded? simply to do ENUM02:57
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: upstart job is probably no good02:58
tehdelyfranz`: nice, avahi02:58
franz`I started it manually with /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start02:58
itsnotabigtruckthere's the problem02:59
itsnotabigtruckthere isn't supposed to be anything even in /etc/init.d02:59
itsnotabigtruckit needs to be upstartified02:59
franz`oh boy02:59
franz`where is the upstart dir? lol02:59
itsnotabigtruckbut you run upstart jobs with /sbin/initctl start/stop/restart02:59
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franz`nothing of the sort there, ah, well03:00
franz`guess I won't be able to ask that guy to submit it to then03:00
tehdelyhas anyone established precisely what component of the system is disabling ad-hoc, btw03:00
DocScrutinizer51only catch about ~flatbatrecover is: you should use the original Nokia fastcharger, to get the D+/- fastchrg short03:00
DocScrutinizer51so charging can use 500mA instead of 100 or maybe even 803:01
tehdelyflatbatrecover == ?03:01
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer51: does the AC-10 work for that purpose or does it have to be AC-1603:01
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover03:01
tehdelywell there's no battery removal happening with this guy03:01
DocScrutinizer51applies too N90003:01
itsnotabigtruck(AC-10 = N900 stock charger, AC-16 = N9 stock charger)03:02
itsnotabigtrucki have both but often end up using the AC-10 because i don't have to fool around with a usb cable03:02
DocScrutinizer51so what?03:02
itsnotabigtruckwell, you said it has to be the original nokia charger03:02
itsnotabigtruckbut both of those are nokia chargers marketed as "fast chargers"03:02
DocScrutinizer51both are original Nokia03:02
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itsnotabigtruckright, but maybe the AC-10 works on the N900 only and the AC-16 works on the N9 only03:02
DocScrutinizer51both have fastchrg signalling03:03
tehdelyi find the charge signalling stuff really annoying03:05
tehdelyi bought one of those portable battery thingamabobs to keep my phone juiced when i'm skiing03:05
tehdelyand found out that it won't charge anything nokia03:05
tehdelyat least none of my symbian handsets03:05
tehdelyit just gives up.  they "charge" for 1sec03:05
tehdelyhowever the N9 does something new... it says "this can not supply enough power" (or something like that)03:05
tehdelybut does appear to be drawing current fomr it03:05
itsnotabigtruckthat's strange...i thought non-nokia chargers charge, just slowly03:05
itsnotabigtruckthe nokia chargers can overdrive past usb spec03:06
tehdelyoh btw, what happens if i connect the phone in mass storage mode?03:06
tehdelywhat precisely gets mounted to my computer03:06
itsnotabigtruckwhich is a fat32 part03:07
DocScrutinizer51N9(xx) uses up to ~1000mA from 'fastcharger'. Anything not delivering that will collapse and result in charging aborted03:07
franz`lol, apt-get remove --purge'd avahi-daemon, reinstalled that deb, and now there's no init.d script03:07
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: that's...weird03:08
franz`I had forgotten I had tried a fremantle avahi-daemon deb03:08
franz`so probably screwed it up forever03:08
franz`oh well03:08
itsnotabigtrucki'd expect that if you deleted it yourself, then uninstalled without purging, then reinstalled03:08
itsnotabigtruckoh, guess that was it03:08
itsnotabigtruckbtw DocScrutinizer51: do the instructions in look proper to you?03:10
DocScrutinizer51sorry, on N900. won't check tmo now03:10
itsnotabigtruckoh ok, np03:11
DocScrutinizer51what's it about?03:11
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franz`it's working now... is there any other run on boot dir beyond /etc/init on harmattan?03:13
franz`I have no idea what I've done, just a reboot later it works automatically03:14
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer51: it's a guide to flashing the N903:14
itsnotabigtruckwith a lot of technical specifics that i want to run by people who know what they're talking about03:14
DocScrutinizer51will check in ~18h03:15
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: there's a few other ways to get stuff to run on boot, but /etc/init's the main way03:15
itsnotabigtruckand its subdirectories03:15
franz`ah, ok03:16
franz`oh, subdirectory03:16
franz`missed that, d'oh03:16
DocScrutinizer51isn't that /etc/<new_name_of_events.d> ?03:17
franz`there's an /etc/init/apps subdir I missed the first time03:17
franz`aaand there's a /etc/init/apps/avahi-daemon.conf there03:17
franz`mystery solved03:17
DocScrutinizer51hmm,  maybe init is the new name of events.d?03:18
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer51: must be03:18
itsnotabigtruckalso it seems that some users of australian carrier branded N9 firmware can't debrand their phones after updating to PR1.103:18
DocScrutinizer51well, is it initctl 'scripts' in there?03:18
itsnotabigtruckthat's the reason for the 2nd warning03:19
franz` that's the avahi-daemon script03:19
itsnotabigtruckit needs to be figured out exactly when the image lock kicks in03:19
itsnotabigtruckalso the person who reported it made it sound like it's irreversible when it fails - not sure if that's actually the case or just a misunderstanding03:19
itsnotabigtruckif it's possible to do something like upgrade the SW cert, but have everything else blocked - that's bad03:20
DocScrutinizer51and that's quite possibl03:20
itsnotabigtruckwell, normally if it accepts the SW cert, it'll definitely accept everything named in the SW cert03:21
DocScrutinizer51it's already known you can't revert from e.g. asian fiasco03:21
itsnotabigtruckare you sure about that, lots of people have gone from PR1.1 003 (china) to PR1.1 009 (europe-2)03:21
itsnotabigtruckthat's why i put the paragraph in about reflashing the CMT, because that does cause a problem03:22
DocScrutinizer51maybe that's been african fiasco03:22
DocScrutinizer51or whatever03:22
itsnotabigtruckafrica gets lumped in with 00103:23
DocScrutinizer51it's actually mentioned in changelog or other docs shipping with N950 1.2beta03:23
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itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, it says that because of the downgrade rules03:24
itsnotabigtruckthe problem is that PR1.2beta shipped with 001 and 003 images only03:24
itsnotabigtruckso once you go to 003 you can't go back to 00103:24
itsnotabigtruckbut if they shipped an 009 image, or a final PR1.2 release, you could flash away from 00303:24
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hiemanshuanyone what does gallery use for the facial recognition?05:05
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itsnotabigtruckhiemanshu: as in which library?05:19
itsnotabigtruckdoes it do its own recognition, or read exif tags that the camera put in05:19
itsnotabigtruck*camera app05:20
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itsnotabigtrucki know the camera app uses some gstreamer plugins that do face detection05:20
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djszapilibfacerecognition I guess06:00
djszapibut of course, you can check out the dependencies...06:00
itsnotabigtruckbtw is there anything like FCamera for the n9?06:07
itsnotabigtrucki noticed that pr1.2 comes with libfcam now06:08
hiemanshudjszapi: looks like a prop thing06:09
hiemanshuwhy didn't they just use opencv :/06:10
djszapiwell, for several reasons.06:11
djszapialso, when I last checked some opencv low-level library, it was a hilarious crap06:12
hiemanshuwell opencv is one of the best available out there06:14
itsnotabigtruckjust fyi something is crap, it isn't a crap :p06:14
JackaLXso where's this you-beaut video calling that Nokia made a point of bragging about in the notification that hit my phone last night for 1.2 update?06:23
djszapibut the point is that we do not need "out there" to get a crappy implementation06:24
djszapiwhenwe wrote a face recognition library on our own with my friend, it wasted our time a lot to understand what the heck they did with zillion lines...ended up dropping their concept altogether, go to the wikipedia, understand the theory, and code the method in few lines.06:25
hiemanshuopencv does a lot more than face detection, it uses haar cascades06:26
djszapiwe were discussing face detection06:26
hiemanshueven I meant that, but my point being extending opencv would be much more fun developer wise06:27
befordJackaLX, <- I suppose you need that06:27
JackaLXbeford: I'll take a look in a min... just out the door right now06:28
beford <- JackaLX that06:28
djszapino, we did not wanna touch that library with my friend back then ... (note, not a Nokia project)...06:28
befordi'm not using pr1.206:28
djszapiit was less painy just to drop it altogether and write the functionality we needed.06:29
djszapiin a way prettier code.06:29
hiemanshudjszapi: did you use eigenfaces?06:29
djszapihiemanshu: well, it was a hobby project that we wanted to base a company upon:
djszapibut never ended up any serious06:31
itsnotabigtruckhm, i need a package manager icon for my adhoc enabler06:32
djszapibeford: I am still unable to reproduce that bug :/06:40
befordit happened twice for me in the same game06:46
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itsnotabigtruckanyone in the US on atm?07:11
itsnotabigtruckneed someone to validate my ad-hoc enabler07:11
franz`I am07:12
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: start the wifi hotspot, note that it won't launch07:13
itsnotabigtruckinstall ad-hac07:13
itsnotabigtruckthen start wifi hotspot again07:13
franz` not installing07:13 worked when i used pkgmgr install-file07:14
itsnotabigtruckvery strange07:14
itsnotabigtruckbtw that error message is expected07:14
itsnotabigtruckbut the postinst script failing is not07:14
itsnotabigtruckin fact i should add a 2>/dev/null there to shut it up07:14
franz`and wifi hotspot is working now!07:14
itsnotabigtrucki'm rolling a new version of the package07:16
itsnotabigtrucki'm just ignoring errors from wl1271-cal now since it's non-fatal07:16
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: ok, try the same URL again07:17
franz`installed cleanly now07:17
itsnotabigtruckalright, awesome07:18
itsnotabigtruckunlike the other adhoc enabling arrangements, this one prevents adhoc from ever being disabled in the first place07:18
franz`do the same thing on the uninstall script07:18
itsnotabigtruckalready did07:18
franz`it gives me a similar error message on apt-get remove ad-hac07:18
itsnotabigtruckdid it give the dbus error, or just the couldn't write mac error07:19
itsnotabigtruckit shouldn't display the dbus error ever during the postrm07:19
itsnotabigtruckthat's strange...07:20
* itsnotabigtruck tests again on my end07:20
franz`~ # cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm07:22
franz`# Re-run the WL127x calibration utility to reset adhoc state07:22
franz`oh whoops07:22
itsnotabigtruckok, i know what's going on07:23
itsnotabigtruckbecause it's in /etc it's considered a conffile07:24
itsnotabigtruckbecause it's a conffile it's not removed unless it's purged07:24
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franz`what if you add a space between the 2 and the > on your postrm script?07:32
franz`that seems to fix it here... kinda07:32
franz`the error message changes to dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute installed post-removal script (/var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm): Operation not permitted  lol07:33
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djszapijust rebuild the package of course ...07:39
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: hold on, let me upload the latest version07:39
itsnotabigtruckpurge what you have installed right now07:40
itsnotabigtruck(dpkg --purge ad-hac)07:40
itsnotabigtruckand don't modify package hooks...aegis doesn't exactly like that07:40
itsnotabigtruckthere's a force flag you can use07:40
franz`yeah dpkg --purge ad-hack gives me the same error07:41
djszapiyou might wanna just reinstall ...07:41
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: dpkg --purge --force-remove ad-hack07:42
itsnotabigtruckvery useful, but undocumented for some reason07:42
djszapiwhy wouldhedosucha hack ?07:42
itsnotabigtruckexcept, ad-hac, not ad-hack07:43
djszapiforce is in general best to avoid07:43
djszapireinstall shoulddo07:43
franz`dpkg: unknown force/refuse option `remove'07:43
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: because reinstalling the package will just invoke the broken script again07:43
djszapireinstall should work oob07:43
djszapido not overcomplicate it pls.07:44
djszapiwith undocumented and unrecommended "features".07:44
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: try using it with dpkg -r instead of dpkg --purge07:44
franz`dpkg --purge --force-remove-fail ad-hac did it07:45
itsnotabigtruckoh, that was it07:45
itsnotabigtruckit's been a while since i used that flag07:45
itsnotabigtruckanyway, let me upload a fresh deb07:45
djszapilol disaregarding a fail07:46
djszapiin order to mess up the system07:46
djszapihow smart...07:46
franz`lol, it's just a small script, won't mess up anything07:46
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: because it's my script and i know nothing will be messed up07:46
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itsnotabigtruckanyway, it's reuploaded - download again from the same url07:47
itsnotabigtrucki'm pretty sure i have all the kinks worked out07:47
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it is called stubornness07:47
djszapithere is a way I said, and you insist on using a broken workflow07:47
* djszapi feels useless for help if it is not even considered in comparison with a broken workflow07:48
itsnotabigtruckreinstalling a package involves the hook scripts on both the old and new packages07:48
itsnotabigtruckso if you have a package installed with a b0rked postrm or something like that07:48
itsnotabigtruckthen installing a new one over it won't help07:48
djszapiof course it will.07:48
itsnotabigtruckand thanks to aegis you can't hack the scripts in /var/lib/dpkg/info07:48
itsnotabigtruckwhich is what's often recommended07:48
itsnotabigtruckso you need --force-remove-fail07:48
djszapinot really.07:48
itsnotabigtruckwhich imo is the elegant way to fix it07:48
djszapithat is unfortunately false07:48
djszapiyou can remove it anytime.07:49
djszapieven manually actually.07:49
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: you downloaded the latest one? how can it possibly fail!07:49
djszapiso let me consider myself useless for trying to help a,dn let you guys go with the broken workflow.07:49
itsnotabigtruckit does no error checking and redirects all output to stdout/err07:49
djszapiand of course a simple a modification back would have done it.07:49
djszapiso there are actually more cleaner way then forcing an action even on fail whichis heavily against any recommendation.07:51
djszapiand apparently even documentation.07:51
franz`wait hold on07:51
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: force options are there for a reason07:51
itsnotabigtruckthere's a time for every flag07:51
itsnotabigtruckthis is the time for force-remove-fail07:51
djszapithis is a hack07:51
djszapiI said more cleaner way working07:51
djszapiyou can insist on being stubborn07:51
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: what's strange is that installed/removed perfectly over here07:52
itsnotabigtruckmake sure there isn't any trace of it left around07:52
franz`~ # dpkg --get-selections | grep ad-hac07:53
itsnotabigtrucke.g. maybe aegis left some old hashes in the refhashlist for some reason07:53
franz`that's what I get07:53
befordin completly unrelated news I got a new lap from my work. it has windows on it so i will install navifirm and your tutorial tomorrow itsnotabigtruck07:53
djszapiwelcome to the borked system07:53
itsnotabigtruckbeford: cool07:53
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: grep ad-hac /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist07:53
itsnotabigtruckls /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.*07:53
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it would be nice if you do not recommend people such things as the "best solution".07:53
djszapiyou cansay, this is the best you can come up with.07:54
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: force-remove-fail worked for me before...tbh i'm not sure what's going on07:54
itsnotabigtrucki don't think it has to do with the force07:54
djszapisure you know aegis better, too :D07:54
* djszapi afkk07:55
itsnotabigtruckwell no, i never said that :p on second thought perhaps force-remove-fail did screw up the hooks to update the hashes07:55
itsnotabigtruckfranz`: what happens if you install it a second time07:56
itsnotabigtrucki'll be back in 1507:56
itsnotabigtruckcafe is closing now07:56
franz`lemme try07:56
franz`reinstalled a second time, it installs but still gives me that error exit status 307:59
franz`and the hashlist thing gave me this
JackaLXgah!  that'd be right... installed that "GTalk Video Call" and none of my gtalk contacts seem to have video capability at their end.  I have the best luck. LOL08:02
franz`wow, google is fast, googling for what does "error exit status 3" means, my pastebin post is already there08:03
JackaLXfranz`: it is likely that pastebin updates their sitemap.xml file on google whenever somebody pastes something08:04
JackaLXor, you were very lucky to paste a second or two before googlebot arrived for the day :-)08:05
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itsnotabigtruckfranz`: back08:07
itsnotabigtruckcan you patch the postrm script to what it was before?08:07
itsnotabigtrucki think that'll fix it...08:07
itsnotabigtruckit looks like it never really got removed08:07
JackaLXThe new "colour profile" setting... does anyone know if setting that to "vivid" is much of a drain on the battery?08:07
itsnotabigtrucki think errno 3 = EPERM08:08
itsnotabigtruck= an error that rarely occurs on non-aegis systems08:08
itsnotabigtruckit's normally reserved for e.g. chowning a file you don't own already08:08
franz`edited the postrm file08:09
franz`dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute installed post-removal script (/var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm): Operation not permitted08:09
itsnotabigtrucksha1sum it08:09
itsnotabigtruckif it doesn't match what was in the refhashlist it won't run08:09
itsnotabigtruckso it has to be byte for byte identical08:09
itsnotabigtrucksha1 = 539f606a11240a9947f27e96fb484ffe454456db08:09
franz`doesn't match lol08:10
itsnotabigtruckoh wait08:10
itsnotabigtruckthat's the sha1sum for the newest postrm08:10
itsnotabigtruckaegis loaded the hashes for the new files08:11
itsnotabigtruckput that inside postrm08:11
franz`just checking, editing the file with nano is fine right?08:12
franz`yeah back to error exit status 308:12
franz`so it's not the aegis hash08:12
itsnotabigtruckyup, nano is fine08:12
itsnotabigtrucksha1sum it again and make sure it's a match08:12
itsnotabigtruckmake sure there isn't a trailing newline08:12
franz`539f606a11240a9947f27e96fb484ffe454456db  /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm08:12
itsnotabigtruckwell that's "awesome"08:13
itsnotabigtruckdon't worry, i'll get this cleaned up one way or another08:13
franz`haha no problem, I tried installing another deb just to see what happened, it works fine08:13
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: you would not waste your and others' time, if you listen to other tips carefully.08:14
djszapiit is fine, if you do not always have the best answers :)08:14
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you run the postrm script directly from the command line08:14
franz`runs normally08:14
itsnotabigtruckand what happens if you do dpkg --purge ad-hac again08:14
franz`same error exit status 308:15
itsnotabigtruckbut what about the output08:15
itsnotabigtruckso still on the post-removal script, hrm08:15
franz`so what exactly does that EPERM error mean?08:16
itsnotabigtruckcp -a /var/lib/dpkg/status /root/; mv /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.* /root/08:16
itsnotabigtruckthen nano /var/lib/dpkg/status08:16
itsnotabigtruckand carefully edit out the lines about ad-hac08:17
itsnotabigtruckmaking sure not to break it08:17
itsnotabigtruck(if something goes wrong, that's what the backup was for)08:17
itsnotabigtruckthen install the newest ad-hac deb again and i think it'll work08:17
itsnotabigtruckEPERM = Operation not permitted = what aegis returns if it doesn't like something08:18
itsnotabigtruckso more or less every aegis-related issue causes EPERM errors08:18
franz`ah, I see08:18
itsnotabigtruckwhat that normally means is a) running a binary with the wrong hash08:18
itsnotabigtruckb) trying to exercise a capability your process doesn't have08:19
franz` subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 308:23
franz`even after editing /var/lib/dpkg/status08:23
itsnotabigtruckok, so now it's failing on the postinst script08:23
franz`it's marked as installed with --get-selections08:24
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itsnotabigtruckdon't use that, use dpkg -l ad-hac08:24
itsnotabigtrucki think get-selections is showing what it's supposed to be, not what it is08:24
itsnotabigtruckso if you tell it to purge and it fails, it remembers you tried to purge it08:24
itsnotabigtruckinstalled - half-configured08:25
itsnotabigtruckwhich makes sense, that's what happened08:25
itsnotabigtruckhow about purging it again now08:25
itsnotabigtruckdpkg --purge ad-hac08:25
itsnotabigtruckthen check refhashlist and see if it remembers ad-hac still08:25
itsnotabigtruckgrep ad-hac /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist08:25
franz` subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 308:25
franz`and refhashlist still remembers it08:25
franz`remembers the postrm and postinst08:26
itsnotabigtruckmv /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm /root/08:26
itsnotabigtruckdpkg --purge ad-hac08:26
itsnotabigtruckkinda forgot you could do that - i think that will make it think there isn't a postrm script to run08:27
franz`ooh, no errors!08:27
itsnotabigtruckok, check refhashlist now08:27
itsnotabigtruckif it's clean you're good to go08:27
franz`it remembers postrm08:27
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franz`ls: /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.*: No such file or directory08:27
itsnotabigtruckit remembers postrm, as in postrm is still listed in aegis?08:28
franz`still on refhashlist yes08:28
itsnotabigtruckbut if you install ad-hac now i think it'll overwrite that entry08:28
itsnotabigtruckas long as postinst is gone08:28
franz` subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 308:28
itsnotabigtruckso much for that08:29
franz`would you be fine with ssh-ing into my phone yourself? lol08:29
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi 1 truck 008:29
itsnotabigtruckif you don't mind me doing that, sure, that would work08:30
mardyZogG_laptop: pong :-)08:30
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djszapimardy: how are you mardynowadays?08:33
djszapimardy nowadays*08:33
* djszapi should clean up the chips under the space button :)08:34
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mardydjszapi: fine, thanks, and you?08:34
djszapimardy: nice, I am also fine. Are you still in Helsinki or not anymore ? I have last seen you at the first meego meetup :)08:35
djszapiweorganize qt meetups nowadays at least.08:35
mardydjszapi: yes, still in Helsinki, and even more interested in Qt08:35
mardydjszapi: I didn't know about the Qt meetups, do you have a link?08:36
mardy(I'm porting Mappero to Qt) :-)08:36
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djszapimardy: not sure whenwe find a sponsorfor the next one, but you are welcome. :)08:40
ieatlintis there still no "find on page" for the browser in 1.2, or am i just missing it?08:40
JackaLXfun easy way to check on your battery status without looking at your phone (needs ssh set up with keys)...08:47
JackaLXssh -Y developer@YOUR_N9_IP lshal|awk '/battery.charge_level.percentage/ {print $3; exit;}'08:47
JackaLXoh, and gpg-agent so you don't need to worry about passphrases :-)08:48
itsnotabigtruckso it turns out it was failing simply because my hook scripts were messed up08:51
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: you don't think Nokia developed that face-det themselves, do you? It's a buy-in, like useless yoghurt sport, and a lot of other things. Possibly they don't even have source, for *sure* they don't have (C) so they could share it08:51
itsnotabigtruckthe strange thing is how it didn't fail on my end08:51
itsnotabigtruckin any case, it's fixed now08:51
djszapibackto the fedex stuff: it is for free08:52
djszapicoming from a company called Buston or something like that08:52
djszapiandthey saiditis a cotton t-shirt08:52
djszapinjsf: ^08:55
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djszapihopefully xxl like at FOSDEM...08:59
djszapiwhich like a giant for me :)08:59
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djszapianybody Notary for Blackberry here ?09:13
djszapiinteresting, how strict process it is09:14
tehdelyRIM really does make you work hard to dev for them09:18
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sony123hi all09:23
sony123I have a question: WiFi scanning on my N9 is broken after a WiFi hotspot session09:23
sony123Anyone else experience this issue?09:24
djszapibroken in what sense ?09:25
sony123No SSID are shown on the 'Connect to internet' list09:25
sony123I'm in US btw09:25
itsnotabigtrucksony123: once i make it not screw up your phone, you should install the package i'm working on :D it's a better way to enable ad-hoc for us users09:26
sony123Hi itsnotabigtruck09:27
itsnotabigtruckno idea about the actual problem though, heh09:27
sony123Acutally I have an app that does that, basically a GUI interface to set allow_adhoc to 109:27
itsnotabigtruckis it your app09:28
itsnotabigtruckah ok09:28
itsnotabigtruckit's a cool way to do it, but what i'm working on blocks adhoc from being disabled in the first place09:29
sony123I got tired of digging into terminal to enable allow_adhoc09:29
itsnotabigtruckso it's just always on09:29
sony123yeah that's a nicer way09:29
sony123So in your case, after your tethering session, the WiFi scanning still works?09:30
itsnotabigtruckno idea because i haven't actually used the wifi hotspot at all09:31
itsnotabigtruckthe method of toggling allow_adhoc shouldn't affect it either09:31
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sony123Yeah I actually just use it once... so I didn't notice this weird behavior before...09:32
sony123I feel it's something else, either in joiku or harmattan system....09:33
sony123But I don't think I can file a bug report on that....09:33
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sony123The use case is invalid :p09:34
djszapior wontfix09:34
sony123Maybe I will check what joiku touches later09:36
sony123By the way, thanks djszapi for your earlier response regarding root access09:36
itsnotabigtruckwell, it doesn't sound like the use case is invalid09:37
itsnotabigtruckassuming that joikuspot is already closed09:37
itsnotabigtruckbut yeah, it's doubtful it's possible to get it fixed :(09:37
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djszapisony123: I responded to you ? :P09:37
sony123Well the reason is... WiFi hotspot is crippled in US09:37
* djszapi has a very fragmented memory09:37
itsnotabigtruckmy guess is that pr1.3 is already pretty frozen already given the release schedules in the past09:37
djszapithat is not a real problem09:38
sony123It's a feature not a bug, so it's a use it at your own risk case09:38
djszapitheproblemis that we (or wellactually they from today) are afraid of regressions.09:38
itsnotabigtrucksony123: this is assuming that the bug applies outside of the US where the adhoc lock doesn't kick in09:38
sony123@djszapi I remember so...09:38
djszapisony123: pr1.3 is a bugfix release.09:38
djszapisony123: gladI helped you then :)09:39
itsnotabigtruckapparently apple's sales per annum are higher than qatar's GDP09:40
djszapioh yeah, btw any reviews are welcome today for kanagram09:40
sony123I posted on TMO to see if anyone else outside US has this issue09:40
djszapithere is going to be an assessment of the reviews today09:40
itsnotabigtruckbtw djszapi: as much as you might dislike my approach of indiscriminately flashing all the phones!!!!, does look reasonable to you?09:41
djszapisorry, slow internet09:42
djszapicannot check atm09:42
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sony123I guess I'll wait and see whether to file a bug report......09:43
sony123Thanks guys09:43
djszapido not go through too much trouble with that though09:44
sony123Btw, why isn't there a meltemi channel :)09:44
djszapithere is09:45
djszapiI registered it long ago09:45
djszapiabout bugreporting at this phase:09:45
fluxhm, is meltemi development going to have an "open" aspect in it?09:45
djszapiI do it only for my professional privde09:45
djszapiI do not expect or even hope for anything.09:45
djszapiflux: it is qt509:46
djszapiso it surely has a little bit of open aspect :P09:46
sony123That's interesting... I thought it's gonna be too tight to get released Qt 5 judging by the schedule09:47
djszapisony123: the qt5releaseschedulewasplanninglong ago09:47
sony123I googled by cannot find meltemi channel? So it's a closed one?09:47
djszapithere is a meltemi channel registered on freenode09:47
fluxdjszapi, and n9 uses Qt 4.7, so it's about as open then?-)09:48
itsnotabigtruckwith 1 person inside :p09:48
djszapiflux: no,qt5 had the open governance model09:48
flux(actually n9 has very open parts, so I'd like to see that with Meltemi as well)09:48
djszapithey backported it to qt4 though09:49
itsnotabigtruckgiven that meltemi is targeted as being an s40 replacement i can't imagine it's that interesting to anyone here (at least for personal use)09:49
djszapiwell, I am interested in that09:49
itsnotabigtruckthough i don't know...since you've worked on it i suppose you know if it's awesome09:50
djszapiif you mean the next billion...09:50
sony123oh I thought Qt 5 release is around summer... now realized WiKi says Q1 2012. That makes more sense...09:50
djszapisony123: nah, it is summer09:50
fluxso it's not going to be a high-end device. but it's going to run Linux and Qt5, so probably it's much nicer to develop than the current s40 phones.09:50
djszapiaround the contributors day09:50
djszapiI mean the final release.09:50
fluxI think the only way it's not going to be nice for developers is that it is crippled somehow09:50
djszapiflux: what do you mean by high-end ?09:51
fluxdjszapi, S40 = el cheapo, so not big and colorful screens, not the best cameras, not the biggest capacity, etc?09:51
djszapiI think what you forget is that less smart phones are also getting smart09:52
djszapiso it is not like you have a functionality for calling, and period.09:52
sony123meltemi is way better than s40....09:52
itsnotabigtruckflux: well, S40 = low priced "dumbphones" that run J2ME apps09:52
itsnotabigtruckthey're among the more sophisticated dumbphones out there, but yeah09:53
itsnotabigtruckmeltemi i assume is a lot more advanced than that09:53
djszapiplease use "next billion" instead of meltemi09:53
djszapithat is the public information09:53
djszapiand many Nokians cannot speak about non-public information here.09:53
fluxit's not only about the potential capabilities the devices could have, it's also about market segmentation09:53
djszapiso it makes the communication hard09:53
itsnotabigtruckbut still, if the goal is to mass produce very large amounts of them for developing markets09:53
fluxif meltemi phones are going to be cheaper, they also 'need' to have less features in order not compete with the high-end offerings09:53
fluxfor that purpose some of their features could be crippled. say, multitasking..09:54
itsnotabigtruckit's not going to be on expensive high performance hardware09:54
djszapi"if meltemi phones are going to be cheaper, they also 'need' to have less features in order not compete with the high-end offerings" -> that is not howthe market actually works09:54
fluxdjszapi, well, of course to compete with othe same price-range phones they need to be competitive in that aspect as well09:54
fluxbut not too competitive :P09:54
sony123Ok no problem I will use next billion from now on :)09:55
itsnotabigtruckand ah yeah, it's like how if somebody at the DoD browses wikileaks on an unclassified computer, they have to cleanse it as if it contains uber sekrit data09:55
djszapihow the market looks like from this pov here, cheaper phones get more and more features09:55
itsnotabigtrucksince the data is still considered SECRET09:55
djszapisony123: thanks, it helps me and others a lot.09:55
sony123sure, I hope you guys succeed on the next billion front09:56
djszapiwell, I do not comment on the security aspect09:58
djszapiit must be a bit degrading after Harmattan but oh well09:58
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itsnotabigtruckit seems like the new font throws off the scaling/alignment/something on lpsmagic10:02
itsnotabigtruckit just doesn't look as smooth as before10:02
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* djszapiN9 wonders if it is worth it at all to take the qwidget related qt certificate10:05
djszapiN9does not hurt though10:06
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, i honestly wonder why you put that into tmo instead of a community wikipage...10:07
itsnotabigtruckwell, there's the meego wiki and the maemo wiki, and the latter doesn't have much harmattan stuff, and the former hasn't really been updated since the early n950 days10:08
djszapiN9huh ?10:10
djszapiN9i edit it almost every single week10:10
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itsnotabigtrucklooking at the recent changes on the meego wiki it's nothing but OBS Light stuff10:12
djszapicommunity wikis exist for a reason10:13
djszapiplease use those10:13
djszapithe N950 landing page is the well known shelter10:13
djszapiI use it every single day as a contents navigation10:13
djszapiyou can put a link in there.10:13
djszapithough I suggested to call it Harmattan from the beginning, not N950_landing page...10:14
djszapi would sound more natural in my opinion.10:15
djszapiI could set up a link from there, but I am used to the N950_landing stuff by now. :)10:17
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tehdelyi think "meltemi" will be interesting.  thing to keep in mind is that high-end smartphones are turning into full-blown portable computers.  quad-core CPUs, dual GPUs, dockability, stuff like "Ubuntu10:19
tehdely  on Android", etc.10:19
tehdelyfeature-phones will be where smart phones are now, by the time "meltemi" is live10:20
tehdelystuff like what you find in the N9 will be found in the feature phones of tomorrow10:20
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: make djszapi happy and call it "unnamed future project" or something10:20
tehdelythe cat's out of the bag on the name, it's even on wikipedia10:20
tehdelybut ok10:20
djszapiit is not about "djszapi"10:20
djszapiyou missed the point10:20
itsnotabigtruckyeah but it's like the military where something is still classified even if it gets leaked10:20
djszapi1) This channel is not about NDA10:20
djszapisee the topic10:21
djszapi2) I think I asked kindly to help others with communication.10:21
djszapitehdely: not your fault10:21
tehdelyi will call it NBOS for Next Billion OS10:21
djszapiitsnotabigtruck was a bit harsh now imo10:21
djszapiI call it "next-billion" :)10:21
itsnotabigtruckeh, but that doesn't roll off the tongue very well :p10:22
djszapitehdely: and I agree with you10:22
djszapithat is how I see, too.10:22
tehdelyi would not mind a durable, 3rd-world-ready feature phone, running linux, with comparable innards to today's mid-range smartphones10:22
djszapiit has been a sad daily feeling there is no proper successor for this awesome OS here :/10:23
tehdelyi don't really care if there is or isn't TBQH10:23
djszapihandset and qt world,for sure.10:23
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: yeah...the current "dumbphone" systems are pretty unsatisfying10:23
tehdelyi got my N9 just yesterday10:24
tehdelylong after its death sentence10:24
tehdelyyet it feels very alive to me10:24
itsnotabigtruckunnamedfuturephone could be a nice intermediate step10:24
tehdelyand i am going to tinker with it for years10:24
tehdelyi think Nokia made the right move going with Windows Phone, too10:24
itsnotabigtruckbetween too much phone, and not enough phone10:24
djszapitehdely: yes, it is gonna remain here especially without a proper successor.10:24
tehdelyMicrosoft has crazy resources to throw at Windows Phone.  they reinvented the phone UI.  they lined up tons of developers to release apps, even without much of a market for them10:25
djszapimost importantly they /have/ testers !10:25
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tehdelyMeeGo could be called MeToo, UI-wise.  the Swipe stuff is pretty innovative but otherwise it's just another icons-and-widgets smartphone OS10:25
tehdelyeverything rips off iOS basically.10:26
tehdelythe advantage of MeeGo is that you can actually tinker with it :)10:26
itsnotabigtruckit doesn't really feel like ios at all though10:26
tehdelyi _own_ my phone10:26
itsnotabigtruckin fact besides the home screen it doesn't really look like ios at all10:26
tehdelyWindows Phone is probably the most un-tinkerable smartphone OS out there10:26
itsnotabigtruckand it's not like apple owns the concept of a grid of icons10:26
tehdelyitsnotabigtruck: it's still buttons and sliders and icons and widgets10:26
tehdelyWP is the only OS that departs from those UI metaphors10:27
tehdelyit feels genuinely New10:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, it still has all those too, they're just less prominent10:27
itsnotabigtrucki have a zune hd, which has a pretty similar ui which is quite awesome, so i know wp7 must be pretty slick10:27
tehdelyi played with Mango last year, it's pretty righteous10:28
tehdelybut i will stick with my beautiful N910:28
itsnotabigtruckbut they really crippled it to the maximum10:28
tehdely^^^ and therein lies the rub10:28
djszapiok, I am gone, have fun guys :)10:28
itsnotabigtrucklater djszapi10:28
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tehdelyi read today that Nokia has sold more N9s than Lumias10:28
tehdelynot surprising10:28
tehdelyNokia's smartphone customers, at least the ones that are left, are all fanboys :)10:28
tehdelymyself included10:28
tehdelywe all know what _we_ wanted Nokia to do and are voting with our dollars and euros :P10:29
itsnotabigtruckthat and the lumia is one of many winphones10:29
tehdelybut the whole WP push is about getting all the customers that Nokia hasn't been able to reach10:29
tehdelyor used to reach, and lost10:29
itsnotabigtruckand it's not significantly different in any way but industrial design10:29
tehdelyNokia is completely irrelevant in the US.  WP will change that10:29
itsnotabigtruckthe people who want WP7, many of them already bought WP7 phones10:29
tehdelyi think most of the peoplw who want WP7 don't even know they want it yet10:29
tehdelythey haven't been exposed to it10:29
itsnotabigtruckif you want an N9, the only choice is to buy an N910:29
tehdelynone fo the carriers are pushing it10:29
tehdelynone of the other OEMs are really highlighting their windows phone10:30
tehdelywhereas Nokia is balls-deep in it10:30
itsnotabigtruckright, and lumia does ship with the nokia maps app10:30
tehdelylumia ships with a whole bunch of Nokia-exclusive stuff10:30
itsnotabigtruckno other phone has a navigation solution10:30
itsnotabigtruck*wp7 phone that is10:30
tehdelyMS and Nokia really need each other on this one.  it's a good "synergy"10:30
tehdelyi don't think Elop is some trojan horse out to wreck the company10:30
tehdelyeven if he's not taking it in the direction we dreamed...10:30
tehdelywe still have our phone10:30
itsnotabigtruckbut they pulled the plug on harmattan /after/ investing so much into it10:31
tehdelynot every pivot is pretty10:31
tehdelylook how much they invested in it and how rushed it still ended up being, and how little app support there was at launch10:31
tehdelyyou have to be a frickin' giant to launch a new mobile platform now10:32
itsnotabigtruckthis is like saying "we don't like this train route anymore, we're going to make another one"10:32
tehdelyand microsoft has just insane amounts of cash to pour into it10:32
tehdelythey will keep pouring cash into WP until it is successful10:32
itsnotabigtruckso they lift up the train tracks10:32
tehdelythey have no reason to stop10:32
itsnotabigtruckand the train flies off and crashes10:32
tehdelymicrosoft will accept crushing losses on something for 10 years if they think it'll eventually be a success10:32
tehdelysee: XBox10:32
itsnotabigtruckcounterpoint: zune10:33
tehdelyi think if/when WP is successful10:33
itsnotabigtruckand a zillion ms software projects10:33
tehdelyyou will see that Zune actually succeeded after all ;)10:33
itsnotabigtruckwhere they do it for 2 years then abort10:33
itsnotabigtruckxbox is more or less an exception10:33
* gri tried microsoft flight yesterday - crap :P10:33
itsnotabigtruckgri: is that a sequel to fsx or something10:34
itsnotabigtruckno, doesn't look like it10:34
griitsnotabigtruck: Not really ... they removed the word "simulator" and made it more like a game10:34
griwith trophys and such things ..10:34
tehdelyTSA probably demanded it10:35
tehdelywouldn't want anyone getting their "flight school" now would we10:35
griand in-game buying: you have two crap planes and other cost money10:35
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itsnotabigtruckso it's "free to play"10:35
itsnotabigtruckeverybody's saying "look at zynga, let's do what they did"10:35
itsnotabigtruckit's poisoning gaming10:36
gripaying for pieces in games is shit :)10:36
tehdelyzynga /sb end10:38
tehdelyirssi fail10:38
* tehdely duck10:39
tehdelyok that is enough mistypes10:45
tehdelyi think it means i should go to bed!10:45
griitsnotabigtruck: and the best thing is like in other ms flight games: if you hit the ground a text appears "you crashed" but there is no visual damage to the plane :(10:45
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tehdelyhow do i get to the quick launch bar10:51
tehdelyi read mention of it but i see no such thing10:51
tehdelyooh i see10:51
tehdelyjust pull up a little10:51
tehdelynot very discoverable10:51
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* tehdely currently installing half the stuff available under "Utilities" in the ovi store10:58
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KhertanHi ,11:02
KhertanSomeone know if there is a way to know the current status of the vkb ? open or closed ?11:02
tehdelyi could swear the display just got darker11:02
tehdelywhile i was installing some app11:02
Khertanbecause, swype vkb can't be closed11:02
tehdelyi think something triggered the light sensor11:04
tehdelyand won't untrigger it11:04
tehdelyah i see11:11
tehdelyif my hand shadows the front-facing camera11:11
tehdelyit gets darker11:11
tehdelyi think i read someone else complaining about that...11:11
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: yeah, it was the ALS11:12
itsnotabigtruck(*not* amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, ambient light sensor)11:13
ShadikkaI find it weirdly amusing that you had to explicitly say that.11:15
itsnotabigtruckalso, TMO just went down again, argh11:17
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itsnotabigtruckhm, interesting11:20
itsnotabigtrucknokia unloaded its symbian development operation to contractors a few months ago11:20
tehdelyinterestingly, they've finally been able to ship Symbian releases on time11:23
tehdelyAnna was the last one that was horrifically delayed11:23
tehdelyalong with the usual "let's give it to the Americans two months later than everyone else"11:23
tehdelythen Belle rolls out worldwide on the same day11:23
tehdelythat was a nice improvement :)11:23
itsnotabigtruckdid the N950 ship in the packaging shown in this post
itsnotabigtruckwhich i guess was a marketing dept. leak11:24
griit came in that box11:25
tehdelyi have to say, the pentile display bugs me a lil bit11:29
tehdelymaybe my eyes are just picky11:29
tehdelybut i can always see the red 'bleed' on everything11:29
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itsnotabigtrucki only notice it on the lp screen11:32
tehdelythat is where i'm noticing it the most11:36
tehdelyany recommendations on a good alarm clock app btw11:37
tehdelyit doesn't look like i can define arbitrary profiles11:37
tehdelyor can i?11:37
tehdelyOK SLEEP11:38
tehdelythis phone is ruining my life lol11:38
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jreznikyupeee! /me was playing with jamendo api pre-pr 1.2 and qt mobility was so buggy, it was hardly usable - today I tried the first try, no changes at all and it works very well... one of the last missing app, stay tuned :)12:28
djszapijreznik: nifty :)12:28
Khertanitsnotabigtruck: yep what that package of n950, why ?12:29
jreznikhow to put it to store - ask them to restrict it for pr 1.2, just comment it, that pr 1.2 is recommended or runtime check in app?12:29
Khertanjreznik: lucky you are ... pr1.2 didn't bring improvment on qml text, and vkb behavior12:30
djszapijreznik: I would personally support all firmwares even without Ovi.12:30
djszapijreznik: that is, for instance, one reason I just copy/paste the qt-components elements into my project from my master, if it achieves better.12:31
admiral0__tmo is down for you?12:31
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djszapifrom dev pov, it is a nightmare, but I develop the app for users after all :)12:31
djszapiadmiral0: someone reported that already..12:31
admiral0djszapi: thanks for fighting for sdk repo :)12:31
djszapiI am not fighting...12:31
djszapibut yw :)12:32
Khertanis there  a way to know if vkb is open or not ? in qml ?12:32
djszapiKhertan: why do you need that ?12:33
Khertandjszapi: because it didn't close12:33
Khertanswype vkb can't be close with a gesture12:34
Khertanso i need a way to close it12:34
Khertanbut didn't wan't to waste space with a button which is useless when keyboard is open12:34
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djszapiyou can always have "activeFocusChanged".12:34
djszapibut this will go wrong anyway...12:35
Khertandjszapi: but i didn't want to play with activeFocusChanged as its fucked the hardware keyboard12:35
Khertandjszapi: ah ... oh did you do so ?12:35
djszapiat least, you will also have to check the GConf key to check whether Swype is the currently active IM12:35
Khertandjszapi: lost half of the screen when no need of keyboard ? having a edit / visualize mode ?12:36
Khertandjszapi: if you have better idea12:36
Khertani ll try them12:36
Khertandjszapi: example :!/khertan/status/175117211399233536/photo/112:37
jreznikdjszapi: the problem is - it's somewhere in qt multimedia, maybe even gstreamer... I don't want to distribute half of the system for just a few lines of QML :)12:38
djszapiobviously, but can you find a simpler workaround ?12:38
djszapiKhertan: Not really. You only need some UI area that does not take focus, then touching there will hide VKB. Hence *that* tweet is wrong.12:39
Khertandjszapi: wrong ?12:39
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Khertanthe rectangle in the top didn't take focus12:40
Khertanbut touching them didn't hide the vkb12:40
Khertanit s a pretty strange ux idea anyway12:40
djszapiOn a side note: QML2 has access to QInputMethod with Qt5.12:41
Khertandjszapi: and then, if you want to scroll the text ... virtual keyboard open up again12:41
Khertandjszapi: yeah ... and QWidget was working on Fremantle ...12:42
Khertanbut we are on harmattan ... not a solution as both aren't availble12:42
djszapithat is why I said "side not" ?12:42
djszapifor useful information in the future ?12:43
Khertandjszapi: ? qt on future device ?12:43
jonniKhertan: I have vkb detection code somewhere on corner of me work hdd, but Im on holidays this week, so cannot help you before monday....12:43
djszapiKhertan: Also what you said above should not happen at all; as in panning does not assign focus.12:43
djszapiThat is a bug in the QML code then or you are not using Qt Components at all (big mistake). I cannot help people who want to fuck themselves. :)12:44
Khertanjonni: even if i found a work arround i ll be interested to see it monday :)12:44
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Khertandjszapi: i use TextEdit12:44
Khertandjszapi: as i ve other problem with TextArea12:45
Khertanwhich didn't want to display large text or scroll them12:45
Khertanit s funny that in 2012 with a framework which can do animation, hw accelerated transition, it s a such pain to made a simple text area to edit a 100 line text file ...12:46
jonnilast year I was playing with harmattan vkb detecion when I was coding qtwebkit to autoscroll to visible area when vkb opened, so input cursor didnt go under the vkb...12:46
djszapiText input in plain QML is pretty obiously borken, in Qt 4.x. That is why there are Qt components.12:46
Khertandjszapi: it s borked in QtComponent too12:46
djszapiif you cannot use Qt Components, you're on your own, and I cannot help there.12:46
Khertando a qt component TextArea ... write line ... it didn't follow the cursor and you can't see what you type12:47
Khertandjszapi: I can USE IT IF THEY WORK ...12:47
djszapinot as bad/in a different way; and in Qt Components, focus-out to close VKB works (by default, QML uses sticky focus)12:47
djszapiTextArea inside Flickable should work, should it not ...12:48
Khertandjszapi: focus out work ... yeah ... but not the rest12:48
Khertandjszapi: DID YOU EVER USE IT ?12:48
djszapiok you lost me.12:48
djszapithat is not true, you can see what you type. I can. It also does the visibility thingy, if you use a Page component. Obviously, yes, I did ;-)12:49
Khertanmaybe this is the reason ... there is none text editor availble for that plateform12:49
Khertandjszapi: show me a exemple so please12:50
djszapiQt Components widget gallery might be a good place for you to start.12:50
djszapiplateform is a quite funny word here in this context though ;)12:50
Khertandjszapi: yep12:50
Khertandjszapi: i ll try to write a simple example to demo you the problem12:52
djszapisome people might say in this situation: "proper bug report or GTFO"12:54
Khertanhaha... and some might say ... "proper place to report ... GFTP"12:56
Khertandjszapi: take the default Component Gallery13:01
Khertanopen the page TextInput13:01
Khertanadd 20 or more line to the multilinetextarea13:02
Khertanwhile in portrait with the vkb13:02
Khertanrotate it ...13:02
Khertanopen the hw keyboard13:02
Khertanand see the result13:02
djszapilol yeah, HWKB on N9, nice trick. fix: close VKB before rotating (there is a sync bug. imo it is fixed in nemo).13:06
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Khertandjszapi: same happen with a bt keyboard13:19
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djszapiYou do not rotate your N9 very often if you use BT keyboard. BT keyboard is simply not a main use case.13:21
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Arkenoirotations behaves very strangely now.. there is no "global" rotation, every app does it separately -- and it happens often that desktop did rotate but apps did not and vice versa13:51
Arkenoii have impression it worked better with pr1.1 and 1.0 but i am not sure13:51
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DocScrutinizer51well, they had no central instance to decide about rotation in a meaningful reasonable way, in fremantle. I don't think they invented sth in HARM13:53
DocScrutinizer51well, they had no central instance to decide about rotation in a meaningful reasonable way, in fremantle. I don't think they invented sth in HARM13:54
jonniArkenoi: if you mean desktop==grid it has never rotated.13:54
jonniatleast if you havent enabled some 3rd party apps13:54
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ZogG_N9qtsdk should update Madde to latest sysroot right?13:56
DocScrutinizer51in CSSU we are about to fix it for good13:56
jonniZogG_N9: nope, qtsdk is always pr1.013:56
Arkenoiiirc there was a tool to tune the sensitivity? it would also be useful to lock to landscape when hw kbd is out (iirc it worked that way in frematle)13:56
Arkenoiwhen you open it, angle is likely to be insufficient to cause rotation13:57
jonni(as all apps are required to work in pr1.0, thus there havent been any updates)13:57
ZogG_N9jonni how can i make it pr1.2?13:57
jonniZogG_N9: you cant13:58
ZogG_N9jonni, than how can i use something added in pr1.2?13:58
DocScrutinizer51and you don'twanna13:58
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jonniZogG_N9: you cant since ovi store requires that you only use pr1.0 api's13:59
gabriel9video calls now working on gtalk13:59
gabriel9some dude say they work on 3g13:59
Arkenoigabriel9, wow. still no video in 3g and skupe?13:59
Arkenoiskype even13:59
gabriel9skype is not working13:59
Arkenoithere is no "video call" button14:00
jonnimost likely if you need pr1.2 then you need to use scratchbox, although I havent checked if public sb has 1.2 rootstrap14:00
ZogG_N9jonni, idiotic, so i need to re-write something existened already? =)14:00
ZogG_N9ovi is a mess14:01
jonniZogG_N9: yep its a feature in ovi store that it doesnt know how to handle different pr releases, if there would be support to enter works in pr such and such, then it would be much better, but there is no support14:01
ZogG_N9btw what about apps4meego?14:01
Arkenoimerge bug sucks big time. and no idea if it is going to be fixed *ever* :-(,14:02
gabriel9you need to download app from store14:02
ZogG_N9jonni, yeah and download limit should be for imeis and not how many times14:03
DocScrutinizer51jonni: brilliant :-/14:03
gabriel9i hate that blog14:03
djszapijonni: I think Ovi is just user centric.14:03
djszapiand they would not like to differentiate PR1.0 and PR1.X users, which is a good thing imo.14:04
ZogG_N9is it me or pr1.2 breaks push notifications for apps? i mean not from nokia (xmms buddy)14:04
djszapiit is not a "drawback" in my opinion.14:04
djszapiI know from experience, if I was allowed to mark an application working on PR1.X, I would probably never bother to bring that application to others.14:05
ZogG_N9djszapi, they shouldnt as client should just tell, like it does for what country contect is avilable14:05
djszapiwhat do you mean ? Could you please rephrase it ?14:05
ZogG_N9djszapi, but if new things added and you cant even use them as developer14:06
ZogG_N9to reinvent the wheel all the time14:06
jonniZogG_N9: depends what you mean by push notifications, if you mean those info bubbles that come to top of the screen, they still work...14:06
ZogG_N9jonni, for stock apps14:06
djszapiZogG_N9: I am trying to understand what you have just said, but it does not parse here.14:06
djszapiso please rephrase it :)14:06
ZogG_N9djszapi, when u use client on phone, it should provide the info14:07
djszapiwell, that is an entirely distinct approach.14:07
DocScrutinizer51maemo repo managed to build for lowest possible PR and offer for all PR rev that the pkg works with. OVI is too stupid for that14:07
ZogG_N9it shows only relevant apps14:07
djszapiit would mean, they allow developers to always work only with the latest image.14:07
djszapiwhich is not nice for many reasons14:08
djszapiI know some people not upgrading, if they got a regression for their loved feature.14:08
jonniZogG_N9: well my BabyLock uses notifications and it still works in pr1.214:08
djszapitry to provide feedback to ovi app authors14:08
ZogG_N9djszapi, there should be obiviously back dependensy14:08
djszapimost of them did not care about the user reports.14:08
djszapiat least from what I saw.14:08
djszapiit would not be any different with "please get it work on PR1.X".14:09
ZogG_N9jonni, i saw few guys had the same problem - bug than?14:09
djszapiwould probably even ignored more because it does not take effect on everybody.14:09
jonniZogG_N9: no idea, bug or using it wrong.14:09
djszapiI do not love Ovi that much, but this is a very good principle in my personal taste.14:10
ZogG_N9djszapi, there is only one phone on meego so 1 version14:10
djszapiit does not parse here.14:11
ZogG_N9as well android and ios managed that14:11
djszapiwhat do you mean ?14:11
djszapimanaged what ?14:11
djszapimanaged what about versions ?14:11
ZogG_N9btw my app would depend on oauth that is present only in 1.214:12
djszapibtw ? You do not try to reply to the question ? :)14:12
djszapianyway, this is certainly a fundamental principle I miss out of apps4meego :(14:12
ZogG_N9from phone 1st of all14:13
ZogG_N92nd android market knows if app works on certain versions and phone or tablet14:13
djszapias I said, it is a broken stance in my opinion14:14
ZogG_N9thats why all you need dependencies14:14
djszapinobody is gonna push developers to get it work for others.14:14
djszapicausing a lot of frustration from user pov.14:14
djszapiand since many app store apps are "dead-on-arrival"14:14
djszapithere might be apps doing the same to just get it work on a certain PR version.14:14
ZogG_N9there are pkgs in ovi that work only for certain prs14:15
djszapiand that is not really uncool.14:15
djszapithat is really uncool*14:15
ZogG_N9djszapi, who cares14:15
djszapiwho cares about doing the same thousand ways ?14:15
djszapiwell, I personally do.14:15
ZogG_N9there are already14:15
ZogG_N920 tourchlights and 1000 just image apps14:16
djszapihaving a broken stuff is hardly a good argument for getting it more broken.14:16
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ZogG_N9thats why rating is important14:16
karbas_n9 got bricked. ota-upgrade failed and used nsu to update and it failed14:16
karbas_any ideas how to fix it? :)14:17
djszapialso, different packages do not just make any sense i ncertain cases.14:17
djszapikarbas_: failed in what sense ?14:17
djszapibecause distinct packages are not reasonable if you need to import a qt-components element for instance14:17
karbas_djszapi, it hanged in 91%14:17
Arkenoiwhat is really uncool is thousands of bookmarks claiming to be "apps"14:17
djszapiif you need to do it anyway, why not just do it once and for all versions ?14:17
Arkenoiand videos and other crap14:17
djszapiinstead of having X separate packages ?14:17
Arkenoiand no way to filter it out14:17
djszapiArkenoi: agreed.14:17
ZogG_N9djszapi, again, dont see problem in ios or android14:18
ZogG_N9their markets doing better anyway14:18
djszapiI tend to disagree14:18
djszapiI need to pay 25 EUR for getting into the android market14:18
djszapithat is the entry level14:18
djszapiwhich is rather cumbersome, if my attention (of course btw) to just make free apps.14:18
RST38hand that is obviously too expensive, isn't it?14:18
Arkenoidjszapi, i am afraid it is intentional by Nokia to create false impression "there is a lot of stuff in Ovi store" while actually there was not. But.. now there is _really_ a lot of stuff, so why keeping crap?14:18
RST38hyou do know that nokia also charges for entry into Ovi ($1 when I entered)?14:19
ZogG_N9and i cant disturb my app coz it would work on pr1.2 only14:19
djszapiArkenoi: the problem is that behind it, for instance, many subcontractors were paid for making applications, and getting paid according to the number of applications.14:19
ZogG_N9would say i made video calls14:19
RST38hdare you also aware that Ovi Store tends to pay publishers whenever it considers convinient, like once 3-4 months or so?14:19
djszapiArkenoi: and they messed up the store this way.14:19
ZogG_N9but u cant get it as it ovi policy with pr1.014:19
djszapiRST38h: no14:19
djszapiI entered OVi for free14:20
djszapianybody can do that14:20
RST38hok, now you know14:20
ZogG_N9djszapi, 1euro14:20
RST38hApple's AppStore is $99 + your rectal virginity14:20
ZogG_N9i paid14:20
djszapiZogG_N9: it was for free to me14:20
RST38hAnd developers still flock there like crazy14:20
djszapiyou are getting funny with knowing better how I did :)14:20
jreznikdjszapi: yeah, many people were doing lot of easy stuff for nokia :) I'm not proud of it but...14:21
ZogG_N9you are not all devs14:21
djszapiand 1 EUR >< 25 EUR even in simple cases.14:21
djszapijreznik: we discussed that with the Qt folks at the meetup, this really happened :(14:21
djszapimake X apps into OVI, and you get Y14:21
ZogG_N9but profits from android app are higher =) and support and how it works =)14:21
RST38hneither eur1 nor eur25 makes much of a difference14:21
RST38hbut Ovi Store not paying any money for 4 monnths does14:22
djszapiRST38h: it does if I can send it to my starving mum instead !14:22
djszapi(not joking, that is real)14:22
RST38hdjszapi: it will buy your starving mum at most 2 days14:22
djszapithe days do not matter.14:22
RST38hnot sure if it makes that much of a difference, although you surely know better14:22
djszapiwhat matters I can send it to her instead of an app store where my apps are for free14:22
jreznikdjszapi: yeah, I know, I was part of it - usually - we need an app by Friday, wait, it's Thursday evening! but actually one is quite useful :) and another completely useless has thousands downloads (and symbian version hundred thousand downloads)14:23
jreznikso users probably wants this kind of "funny" apps14:23
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djszapijreznik: :)14:23
jreznikwhat I hate more are are that RSS apps - should be in own category and then I have nothing against it14:24
RST38hthen how will Ovi claim that it is getting lots of apps?14:24
djszapiI really love how KDE/Qt are compatible that much14:24
djszapiinside major versions...14:25
ArkenoiRST38h, can you call me video via gtalk? want to test it14:25
jreznikRST38h: it's more a question of correct categorization14:25
RST38hArkenoi: call you with what?14:25
* jreznik would like to try it too :)14:25
djszapijreznik: I can try to call you :)14:25
djszapiwith the "us" address, I believe.14:26
Arkenoigtalk video. there is app in store that enables video calls, just installed it and want to see if it actually works14:26
Appiahwohoo firmware update14:26
ZogG_N9need to go14:26
djszapiArkenoi: what is the app name, if I may ask ?14:26
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ArkenoiGtalk Video Call14:27
Arkenoipackage is named "video-call-installer"14:28
djszapithere is a review "Abc", and that is all ;-)14:28
RST38hsays video is not available at your system14:29
RST38hok, now opened it14:29
RST38hanswer it14:29
djszapithe package turns the device off ?14:30
djszapi* reboot it14:30
djszapiwhy ?14:30
Arkenoirst38h, can you see me?14:30
RST38hto flash hacked kernel and start scping your data out, stupid14:30
RST38hdon't you know14:30
djszapisounds like something to report to Ovi. :)14:30
RST38hisn't it the scenario your aegis thingie was supposed to protect us all against?14:31
djszapinot really, no14:31
djszapithe aegis side is prepared for that, though.14:31
djszapitoo bad, if the system services guys do not use its power14:32
RST38hArkenoi: Ok, I assume whatever that package does, it does not do vidoe chat14:32
djszapiand ovi needs to catch this thing, but anyway, reporting is being done and hopefully Ovi investigate more.14:32
ArkenoiRST38h, i do not get video stream from you, but i see myself in the corner of the screen14:32
RST38hok, I will try once more. please, log into gtalk14:32
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Arkenoii am online14:34
Arkenoitried to call yu back but got no answer14:34
RST38hSorry do not see you online14:34
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djszapi"Please note: Nokia N9 v1.2 (or later) software is required to install this package."14:35
djszapiand ovi accepted it ? :)14:35
RST38hAnd I am using gtalk from the browser14:35
djszapiare they serious about the backward compatibility ? :)14:35
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RST38hOvi will accept just about anything14:35
djszapihow am I supposed to use this ?14:35
RST38hBut may not accept things based on random reasons14:36
djszapiI do not see any helper.14:36
djszapineither in the description, nor anywhere else.14:36
RST38hlike, they refused to accept fMSX because it did not run .nes files14:36
ArkenoiRST38h, haha, must be codec incompatibility as usual. btw if you call pidgin with browser, it just crashes (pidgin)14:36
RST38htook me 2 weeks to persuade them14:36
djszapino helper ui util either on the applauncher.14:36
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jreznikdjszapi: I heard you can ask for the exception - if it's free application, than they allow you to any version you want14:40
jreznikbut I was really surprised that they accepted restart14:40
djszapiyep, that is strange.14:41
jreznikovi guys are... 5-7 business days - one of my symbian app is there three weeks without touching it (but it was for the conference, so I'm going to remove it, just I was curious)14:41
djszapiwell, then free app authors can say, they do not give a shit for other pr users :(14:41
RST38hno, 5-7 business days is what it takes them to answer your single email14:41
djszapijreznik: last time it was 2 days for me.14:41
djszapiand updating the screenshot was few hours14:42
jreznikRST38h: no reply yet :)14:42
RST38hthere is usually 4-6 emails going back and forth before they agree to accept something14:42
djszapinever happened with publishing...14:42
RST38hSo, you are looking at weeks, not days14:42
RST38hdjszapi: we are all happy for you14:42
jreznikprobably someone missed it in the system :)14:42
Arkenoidjszapi, it does not need helper ui, there is "video call" button in contacts now14:42
djszapiArkenoi: tried to find it, but I do not see that.14:42
jrezniksometimes you can talk to them and they are pretty fast14:42
djszapijreznik: yes, I think your case got lost or so. I am certain, it was not intentional.14:43
djszapiunless you wrote a super large app that might take them to test it that long ;)14:43
jreznikanyone wants to try? rezzabuh@gmail.com14:43
Arkenoidjszapi, it appears if remote party is online and claims video capability14:43
djszapiArkenoi: oh just in that case..14:44
djszapijreznik: I would like to14:44 :)14:44
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djszapijreznik: is it for free ?14:45
djszapiI am getting your call :)14:45
djszapiwould not like to get you charged14:45
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jreznikdjszapi: it's jabber, it's for free14:46
djszapilet me remove my sim :)14:46
jreznikat least ui works, front camera too :)14:47
djszapijreznik: try again pls :)14:47
Arkenoijreznik, tried adding you, got "checking" state and that's all :-(14:47
RST38hOk, GTalk is broken. Most likely at the Google's side.14:48
RST38hWhat else is new?14:48
djszapijreznik: I see you14:48
djszapijreznik: have you seen anything out of my camera and phone ?14:49
jreznikdjszapi: really?14:49
jrezniknothing here14:49
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jreznikArkenoi: or you can try rezza@jabber.cz14:50
Arkenoihaha, for some reason it turns my image from the camera upside down in portrait mode, no matter if i turn the phone -- it turns it back upside down :-)14:50
djszapiI just accepted the call, and changed the camera to see you.14:50
jrezniktry to call me14:50
djszapisure, if you are talking to me :)14:50
djszapiat least I saw myself in the corner at least.14:51
djszapiand you in the middle :)14:51
jreznikwow, it works14:52
Arkenoijreznik, works, but your image was very distorted14:52
djszapijreznik: works with Arkenoi or me ?14:52
jreznikdjszapi: I understand it - you have to allow the camera - that's probably the reason I couldn't see you14:52
jreznikdjszapi: both14:52
djszapiI had to tap it too in the beginning to see you.14:53
* jreznik still thinks video calls are useless14:53
Appiahjreznik: +114:54
djszapijreznik: except with a nice HR woman :P14:54
djszapiso what are the limitations of the google talk ? People registered with Europe, or what exactly ?14:55
RST38hArkenoi: pick up.14:55
jreznikdjszapi: I don't see any limitations...14:55
jreznikit's working with both my jabber accounts... so14:56
Arkenoithere is yet another reason for video calls -- when you need a person to drink with and there is none around14:56
RST38hArkenoi: use a freaking mirror.14:56
djszapiI will not use it either, I believe.14:57
djszapibut it is still cool to see, it works.14:57
djszapiI wonder how long the battery can take it.14:57
djszapiI have never tried to make long videos with N914:57
djszapiespecially since it is even somewhat data over the internet14:58
djszapiheh, the OVI client locks the package manager database, even if it does nothing.15:00
AppiahArkenoi: lets do that #harmattan-drink15:00
jreznikAppiah: nobody is drinking there :(15:05
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RST38hArkenoi: BTW, check out this schedule around 16:15:
RST38hArkenoi: see the date ;)15:08
paok, i added a gmail account as MFE account. but how do i push on that account contacts that are on the phone byt not there?15:09
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paah actually it does15:12
Appiahthis n9 update takes a long time..15:13
Appiahthink it said 40min?15:13
djszapithat is normal15:14
djszapiunfortunately, it is that slow for many people.15:14
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ArkenoiRST38h, nice!15:15
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Appiahumm did the font change?15:30
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djszapiohh the fedex box was about Google Code In stuff15:42
djszapit-shirt for the mentors :P15:42
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djszapiN9is it possible to just delete certain entries, without showing, on the notification screen ?16:07
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ninnnuI have an opposite question: How do I create notifications that would at least show up briefly on the top of the screen, possibly end up to notification screen? Docs mostly tell about Notification API, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for.16:12
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djszapiN9ninnnu, infobanner component ?16:16
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ninnnuI'll look at that. Thanks16:18
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djszapiN9yw :)16:19
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Jarehmm, video and audio is sent as an rtp payload in xmpp/jingle (gtalk), isn't it?16:40
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*** pat00 has joined #harmattan16:54 sip videocalls might be easy to enable, if telepathy-sofiasip supports them17:01
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paso N9 cant sync sms via SyncML?17:09
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palike with services such as Memotoo17:10
pano one knows?17:14
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itsnotabigtruckKhertan: just that it looks cool17:17
itsnotabigtruckTMO is still down?!17:19
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Khertanitsnotabigtruck: ?17:23
itsnotabigtruckKhertan: the box17:27
itsnotabigtruckthe N9 box is fairly uninspired17:28
itsnotabigtruckjare: have you tried to make one yet?17:28
itsnotabigtruckapparently this video call enabler just flips some settings on telepathy/call-ui17:28
itsnotabigtruckand none of them specifically related to gtalk17:28
itsnotabigtruckso this "gtalk video call enabler" should work with any suitable telepathy backend17:29
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure why they didn't just roll this into the firmware...17:34
itsnotabigtruckit would also be nice to have it in an APT repo at least so it could be depended on17:34
itsnotabigtrucke.g. my-uber-awesome-connection-manager Recommends: video-call-enabler17:34
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Khertanitsnotabigtruck: ah yes there is even a qml code that when you run it display a nice ui to say that you got your precious on twitter :)17:43
paactually, can i have multiple mail for exchange accounts from which import contacts?17:45
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itsnotabigtruckbloody TMO, why can't you be up17:48
pabloody N9, supporting contacts only from 1 MFE account17:49
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paor is it possible in PR1.2?17:52
pacould someone try? if you have already one MfE account, can you try to add a second one, and see if you have the switch to sync contacts from that one?17:52
paotherwise i will file a bug17:52
tehdelypa: i'm on PR1.217:52
tehdelyand i have 3 MfE accounts17:52
tehdelyonly one has the option to sync contacts17:52
tehdelyit's obviously deliberate.17:52
pathat sucks.. no one has filed a bug report yet?17:52
pabut it sucks..17:53
tehdelyhow would you define the syncing behavior if you synced with more than one exchange server?17:53
tehdelyi consider that sort of an edge case17:53
tehdelyand you still have access to the GAL17:53
pawell, one way is that if you add a contact on the phone, it is added to all the MfE accounts17:54
paanother option is that you get prompted to which account you add it17:54
tehdelyok but what about syncing contacts down17:54
tehdelylet's say you have your work and your home MfE accounts17:54
Khertanyou choose to sync ... it s sync ...17:54
tehdelyyou enable contacts sync on both17:54
tehdelyyou get the contacst from both?17:54
Khertanasking user where to  ... how to everytime ... it s borring17:54
tehdelydo the contacts stay separate?17:54
tehdelyor do the contacts synced down from one17:54
pano they merge17:54
tehdelyget synced up to the other17:54
tehdelyso eventually both mfE accounts have the same contacts17:55
tehdelythere's only one address book17:55
pawell you shouldnt sync it back17:55
tehdelyso then the software will have to keep track of which contacts came from where17:55
pai mean, each contact should have its provenance17:55
pawell.. it's doable isnt it?17:55
tehdelycan you see why they didn't implement this feature :17:55
paandroid supports such things17:55
tehdelylet us not mention that other OS17:56
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tehdelydo you know what else android did?  THE HOLOCAUST17:56
pawell, ok, but it's definitely something doable17:56
tehdelyyes that's right17:56
tehdelyi hold incontrovertible proof17:56
pait's not a sci-fi request17:56
tehdelyit's doable but it's a pain in the ass.  and what you're asking for is an edge case17:56
tehdelybarring implementing it yourself, i don't imagine Nokia's going to add that feature17:56
paedge case?17:56
tehdelyyes.  syncing contacts from more than one exchange account is an edge case17:57
paon an N series i dont think having more than one exchange account is an edge case17:57
tehdelyhow many people even have more than one exchange account (yes, i am one, but still)17:57
tehdelywell it's better than symbian, where you got one exchange account, period :)17:57
paeveryone who has home and work contacts17:57
tehdelyi think my situation is pretty typical.  i sync my home contacts, and for work i search the GAL17:57
lfranchianyone noticed that in 1.2, the wallpaper has a limited colorspace?17:57
paif you have your home gmail and work gmail, then it's natural you have 2 accounts17:58
pinheirolfranchi:  hehehhee17:58
lfranchii set a wallpaper with a nice gradient that looks great on the n9 normally, but when i look at it set as the wallpaper it looks like crap17:58
itsnotabigtrucklfranchi: it does? hm17:58
tehdelyah i see you are using MfE for GMail just like me17:58
lfranchipinheiro: :P17:58
lfranchi(pinheiro designed the wallpaper :)17:58
tehdelycurious:did you do it to get around the IMAP-syncing-fails-and-sucks-up-all-the-battery issue17:58
pawell, there are not many options for sync ing contacts17:58
pano, actually i did coz i dont know how else i should keep my contacts17:59
pinheiroyeah guys were does one incresse the color space for the wallpaper?17:59
pai mean gmail sounds natural17:59
itsnotabigtrucki've just been using the blurry city scene wallpapers that come with it17:59
pahotmail would be, as well17:59
itsnotabigtruckwhich are awesome17:59
tehdelycurious how That Other OS handles this17:59
tehdelysyncing from multiple sources of contacts17:59
tehdelyas far as how it makes decisions on what to keep, and what to sync up, etc. etc.17:59
itsnotabigtruckthe fruit os or the robot os18:00
lfranchiitsnotabigtruck: yeah, i didn't notice it till i used pinheiro's image18:00
lfranchisince he has a think for gradients :)18:00
pinheiro:D and black18:00
paand the nice part of that other OS is that you can switch off one account, and the related contacts are hided18:00
paswitch it on again, you see them again18:00
tehdelythen it must keep separate address books for each source18:03
tehdelywhich is someting i don't think harmattan does18:03
tehdelythat would obv. be necessary to implement what you want18:03
Khertanor keep the source18:03
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tehdelyyes or perhaps that18:03
tehdelytagging each contact with where it came from18:03
paanyway, im filing a bug report about it now18:03
pait's also funny that symbian sync sms and harmattan does not18:04
Khertani would prefer they fix other os problem before enhancing account syncing18:04
pabut account syncing is also important18:05
paand i hope harmattan devs are willing to make it a kickass OS, and fuck Elop :)18:05
paor is he the one who must not be named?18:06
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itsnotabigtruckthe whole elop bashing thing is kinda getting old18:11
itsnotabigtruckbesides it's not like he and only he is responsible for this situation18:11
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pawell, hes definitely not18:11
pahe's doing what he's being told to do18:11
tehdelyplus, some of us think he made the right move18:11
* tehdely <--18:11
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itsnotabigtrucktehdely: the problem is that he's gutting practically everything that gave nokia a compettive edge18:12
itsnotabigtruckeverything is being unloaded, outsourced, or shut down18:12
pawell.. between killing symbian and killing meego, i would have killed symbian :)18:12
itsnotabigtruckand yeah, they're still launching more symbian phones, those are phones that should have been running harmattan18:12
pabut i can also understand why keeping symbian18:12
itsnotabigtruckthough they're also launching too many phones still, they need to take a hint from companies like apple18:13
itsnotabigtruckapple has just one phone, it's THE apple phone18:13
itsnotabigtruckhistorically nokia always does 80 zillion permutations of everything and only a couple are actually any good18:13
itsnotabigtruckwould be better to focus that into 2 or 3 models like a laser18:13
tehdelyall i've seen under Elop18:14
CissWitthey do it now, with windows.18:14
tehdelyis that Nokia is starting to meet deadlines again18:14
tehdelysymbian iterations are coming out faster, and on time18:14
tehdelyhell, Belle released globally on the same day... when has that ever happened?18:14
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itsnotabigtrucktehdely: they already unloaded their symbian development18:14
tehdelyi'm in North America, i'm used to getting my firmware 2 months after you18:14
itsnotabigtruckthey hired a contractor to maintain it18:14
tehdelyitsnotabigtruck: yes and it was a great move18:14
tehdelyaccenture's doing a better job than Nokia was18:14
itsnotabigtruckharmattan was heavily outsourced and now it's being shut down18:14
itsnotabigtruckapparently they sold their in-house baseband system18:15
tehdelywell I have a Harmattan phone in my hand.  it's beautiful and I love it and I will use it for years and I intend to hack on it, too.  but Nokia wants to excite people beyond its base of fanboys18:15
patehdely, as far as you know, is it possible to "disable" some contacts in gmail, and having them not downloaded to the phone?18:15
paor perhaps an entire group18:15
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: harmattan could have totally excited people18:15
tehdelyi am a certified Nokia fanboy18:15
itsnotabigtruckthey should have renamed it back to maemo6 though18:15
tehdelynobody else in the US is18:15
tehdelyWindows Phone can sell18:15
itsnotabigtruckthat would take care of the whole "meego, didn't they cancel meego"18:15
tehdelyitsnotabigtruck: rebranding it wouldn't be a bad idea but at this point what's the use18:16
tehdelythey've already declared their intention not to release another one, ya know18:16
itsnotabigtruckwell, nobody in the us is aware of it since they didn't launch here and did zero marketing here18:16
itsnotabigtruckhell, they did zero marketing in countries that they DID launch it in18:16
itsnotabigtruckwhich is another problem with nokia - they don't launch everywhere and launch hard18:16
tehdelythey did that because they want this phone to go quietly into the night18:16
tehdelythe people who want this phone will seek it out and buy it18:17
itsnotabigtrucktrue, but that latter problem's been a problem for a long time18:17
tehdelythey don't want to push a stillborn platform with very little developer support18:17
tehdelytake a look at WP718:17
itsnotabigtruckand also you were just saying that harmattan wouldn't excite people in the us18:17
tehdelythe user numbers are abysmal18:17
tehdelybut MS lined up every company to make an app for it18:17
tehdelyif you're a guy in the US who's never bouth a Nokia phone, and you get this (very pretty) WP handset heavily marketed to you, and it alreayd has apps for everything you want to do...18:17
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tehdelyelop's move was about platforms.  harmattan is this beautiful, quirky thing that some poeple love.  i've had it for two days (long-time symbian user before that).  i'm in love18:19
tehdelybut i probably would have bought this phone if it came in a pile of shit with a letter from Elop saying "Dear Mike; Fuck you"18:19
tehdelymost people would have ignored it without a good selection of apps18:19
tehdelyand somethign that really stood out to them as "this is new"18:19
tehdelyswipe UI is nice18:19
tehdelybut Metro feels a lot more "new"18:19
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itsnotabigtruck from reddit18:20
tehdelyMetro is a reinvention of how you interact with your phone.  it's the first genuinely original thing to come out of MS in ages18:20
pais it just me who thinks that metro sucks?18:20
tehdelyi think it will be a big hit once somebody steps up to the plate and really sells a windows phone18:20
tehdelythe carriers hate WP and refuse to aggressively sell it; it's not just the phone mfgrs18:20
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leinirpa: Nope. It's sort of like someone from America decided that Nordic minimalism wasn't good enough, and invited it for a walk around teletubbie land :P18:20
tehdelywhy sell WP7, where the experience is almost 100% controlled by MS18:21
tehdelywhen you can sell the Droid Charge Infuse Motivate Invigorate, with all of your carrier bloatware installed and half of the features removed18:21
pai had a windows phone for a few hours, i also tried windows  8 developer preview, and well.. it just sucks..18:21
tehdelythe only reason carriers sell iPhones is because they lose 50% of their users if they don't18:21
tehdelythey HATE iPhone18:21
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tehdelybut the product itself is so in-demand that carriers beg to carry it, even though they would really rather just sell Android all day18:22
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itsnotabigtruckwell, the N9's gradient icons aren't really minimalism18:22
tehdelyNokia has to somehow come out with something appealing enough that the sales guy at my local AT&T store will push it as hard as the Samsung Dodecahedrally Orgasmiate X 2834 F18:22
tehdelyand Harmattan wouldn't cut it, sorry18:22
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pai think a properly supported and developed harmattan would easily outrun android18:24
itsnotabigtruckeh, it's impossible to "outrun" android at this point18:24
itsnotabigtruckbut it's possible to be in android's league18:24
itsnotabigtruckit would have been possible to outrun wp718:25
paharmattan would be always faster than android, at least harmattan applications18:25
itsnotabigtruckyeah, but android has a zillion vendors backing it and a LOT of momentum18:25
tehdelythe advantage of Android is that it has no personality and people expect nothing from it18:25
paand i tell you: no android user i know is happy with their phone sluggish performance18:25
itsnotabigtruckit's the single most popular platform afaik18:25
tehdelyit's a substrate that handset mfgrs and carriers can build upon18:25
tehdelyto sell you some already-obsolete piece of shit18:25
itsnotabigtruckthat's a major issue18:26
tehdelythere's really nothing in it for the user except that maybe they got a cheaper phone with a fatter CPU in it18:26
itsnotabigtruckwell, what's in it for the user is a mindboggling number of apps18:26
itsnotabigtruckthe java environment isn't so hot, and the carriers/manufacturers update releasing is deplorable18:26
itsnotabigtruckbut android works and it works with loads of apps18:26
paapps is not the problem18:26
itsnotabigtrucksure apps are the problem18:27
pasupport harmattan, apps will come18:27
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itsnotabigtruckmy N9 does all the core stuff, but even if nokia turned harmattan up to eleven18:27
itsnotabigtruckthere'd never be everything18:27
pawhat do you miss?18:27
itsnotabigtruckyou can get everything for iphone or android18:27
pado you really need a zillion of apps?18:27
itsnotabigtruckit's not so much things in particular, it's more like, some quirky new app comes out that does something cool18:27
paas long as it does what you need, who cares about zillions of apps?18:28
itsnotabigtruckor a frontend for your bank/favorite news website/whatever that's super stylish18:28
tehdelyand the approach microsoft has taken with WP718:28
tehdelyhas been18:28
tehdely"we can't get everything, but let's get absolutely ONE OF everything"18:28
tehdely"and line up every hot web 2.0 service and every company and lean on them, maybe even throw money at them, to make sure there's an app"18:28
itsnotabigtruckthe point is, if it's a basic task, harmattan does it18:28
tehdelyand not only an app, but a very classily designed app18:28
itsnotabigtruckif it doesn't come with the OS, somebody's made an app for it18:28
itsnotabigtruckbut if it exists, there's an app for it for android or iphone18:28
itsnotabigtruckand a lot of those apps are damned cool18:29
tehdelyif it exists, there's probably _one_ app for it for WP7, and it's slick as hell18:29
pai dont see this  as a problem, im sorry..18:29
itsnotabigtruckpa: then you're one of those apologists who tries to ignore the major factor of a smartphone platform18:29
itsnotabigtruckwhich is app support18:29
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itsnotabigtruckevery time you have a platform with limited 3rd party support you have everyone coming to its defense saying "i don't need apps"18:30
paand if i were nokia, i would have rather supported Qt for android. Qt is so much cooler than anything else, let people use it for android, and they will port the app to harmattan18:30
itsnotabigtruckyes you do18:30
itsnotabigtruckon the other hand, on WP7 you have stuff like that guy who made 100 super-generic apps and published them for $2 before wp7 came out18:30
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paitsnotabigtruck, harmattan is a linux. on my ubuntu i can do everything i need, more than on windows (even there are more "apps" for windows). Do i need the frontend for my bank on ubuntu?18:30
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pado i need the little cat repeating what i say?18:31
itsnotabigtruckpa: true, but mobile browsers aren't so hot a lot of the time18:31
itsnotabigtruckthe N9's included18:31
itsnotabigtruckespecially on desktop pages18:31
befordFree downloads:66618:32
itsnotabigtruckon the flip side of the coin with app this app business18:32
itsnotabigtruckyeah, like you said, harmattan is a linux, and that means you have access to so many programs built for standard linux18:33
tehdelyi bought a harmattan phone because i can make my own apps for it with more ease than i probably can for any other platform, and they can actually hook into the OS where I want them to18:33
itsnotabigtruck*with this app business18:33
payeah you just need a touch friendly interface18:33
itsnotabigtruckand also, a large number of iphone/android apps are tainted with ads and espionage18:33
tehdelyAndroid is just Linux with a Java layer18:33
tehdelyi need some GNU with my Linux :)18:33
itsnotabigtruckby virtue of harmattan's novelty there's extremely little of that18:34
itsnotabigtrucki do need to figure out a way to expunge that little ad from accuweather though, lol18:34
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itsnotabigtruckbtw any idea what happened to EDGE, the game?18:37
itsnotabigtruckit was in the ovi store, but then got pulled at some point18:37
itsnotabigtruckthe port was kind of borked apparently, but that could have been fixed :p18:38
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patehdely, you cant choose which contact groups to sync in 1.2, can you?18:44
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: still around?18:49
itsnotabigtruckwant to try the latest version of ad-hac (wifi hotspot hack for US N9 owners)18:50
itsnotabigtrucki'm pretty sure i have the issue worked out where it gets stuck half-installed and can't be removed :p18:50
tehdelyi'm glad i helf off on trying until now, then :)18:50
paitsnotabigtruck, iirc, nokia accepted that bug18:51
tehdelyi will in a moment, i am preparing breakfast18:51
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* djszapiN9 has just won yet another N9 with Kanagram :)18:54
itsnotabigtrucktehdely: when you're ready, it's
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN9: if any of those other N9s belong to you, that could have gone to somebody who doesn't have one yet18:55
itsnotabigtruckactually, on second thought18:55
itsnotabigtruckN9s are kind of a strange prize for a competition concerning N9 apps18:55
itsnotabigtruckbecause realistically basically everyone who's submitted an N9 app probably has an N9(50) already :p18:55
djszapiN9i am really happy i can give it my mum.18:56
itsnotabigtruckheh, fair enough18:56
itsnotabigtrucknow what would be a very cool prize would be N950s out of the remaining inventory18:57
itsnotabigtruckgiven that it's not like you can just lay down cash for one of those18:58
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befordhey admiral0_18:59
befordwe finished over your team :D18:59
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN9: was this competition among nokia employees/contractors/something or over ovi store apps in general18:59
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, internal.19:00
itsnotabigtruckah, that explains both not having heard about it and how you were able to win19:00
* djszapiN9 still has an N9 for changing with a playbook.19:00
itsnotabigtruck(building an app in a couple weeks and getting it to #1 in ovi for reviews would be...tricky :p)19:01
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admiral0beford: net 100... we couldn't open the fucking zip19:02
admiral0how did u open it19:02
beforda friend used some zip repair software, extracted key file and then we used the 1984 date as the decryption key19:02
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, yes i was lucky with being able to reuse kde technologies.19:03
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN9: that's not what i meant but OK :p19:03
djszapiN92 weeks are not much for such an application like kanagram19:03
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itsnotabigtruckit seems like the ovi store almost exclusively lists paid apps as featured19:03
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN9: right, but i was more saying that it takes a long time to build something so awesome that *everyone* will download it19:04
djszapiN9imo, it has a decent ui in comparison with many applications, and also stability.19:04
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itsnotabigtruckthings like emumaster that have a huge following19:04
itsnotabigtruckbtw tmo went back up19:05
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, nah, not really19:05
djszapiN9torch app has 441 reviews19:05
itsnotabigtruckeh, fair enough19:05
djszapiN9and it is just toggling the stuff19:05
itsnotabigtruckbut that's mostly just a matter of having the app in the right place in the right time19:05
djszapiN9depends on your audience19:05
itsnotabigtruckwhich is still why i'm a bit incensed that nokia paid out $50k to the dev of that app19:05
djszapiN9kanagram is not meant for wide audience19:06
djszapiN9same with fingerdrums, but complete fun for those special people who are interested in :)19:09
djszapiN9btw the ios hangman application is quite scary with that galloes and real character hanging :)19:10
djszapiN9i just make a failed logo hanging in my harmattan version :)19:10
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beforditsnotabigtruck, 50k for phonetorch? :|19:12
itsnotabigtruckbeford: yeah19:12
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djszapiN9beford, and 441 reviews19:13
itsnotabigtruckthere was some sort of qt n9 apps competition up to the end of 201119:13
itsnotabigtruckbased on getting the most downloads19:13
itsnotabigtruckit wasn't open to everyone, by invitation only19:13
itsnotabigtruckand they invited a bunch of symbian developers who already make ridiculous shareware type stuff19:13
itsnotabigtruck(that's been a big problem with symbian for a long time)19:14
djszapiN9yeah, we laughed at here.back then19:14
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djszapiN9looked as a scam in the first place :)19:14
itsnotabigtruckand one of the criteria was to have a novel and sophisticated app, or something along those lines19:14
itsnotabigtruckwhich could have easily disqualified phonetorch19:14
itsnotabigtruckthere were some really good apps in the runners up19:14
itsnotabigtruckthey got prizes too though - $10k each19:14
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befordyea ton of apps require more work than phonetorch :P19:15
itsnotabigtruckit seems like sheer downloads is a bad metric for a competition, it needs to be based on some weighting of sophistication, polish, and utility19:16
djszapiN9i personally do not like that app19:16
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djszapiN9imo, flashlight is cooler19:16
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itsnotabigtruckthere's lots of trivial apps that lots of people need but shouldn't win prizes19:16
itsnotabigtruckand there's lots of apps that are somewhat niche, but amazing19:16
itsnotabigtruckthe flashlight is definitely cool19:17
itsnotabigtruckso many modes :D19:17
djszapiN9imo, people making useful stuff for the world, deserve that19:17
djszapiN9i always consider users, not developers in the end.19:17
itsnotabigtruckbut "useful" is too broad19:17
itsnotabigtruckmy ad-hac is useful but i wouldn't claim i deserve some sort of prize for putting a config file in /etc :p19:17
itsnotabigtruckalso franz's pastebins of log output from ad-hac are already near the top of the google results for that, lol19:18
jonniafter installing rsync to n9 life is so much easier, atleast when synching mp3 playlists etc :)19:20
itsnotabigtruckbtw anyone else besides tehdely here located in the US?19:22
itsnotabigtruckif so, a) start wifi hotspot, b) verify that it won't launch, c) scroll up and install ad-hac, d) launch wifi hotspot again19:23
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Jarehmm.. there's a binary called "videohost" under /usr/lib/skyhost/. Has it been there before PR1.2?19:24
itsnotabigtruckalso pa: accepted which bug?19:25
jpwhitinghey all is there a site which lists which devices should be able to grab the ota update by now?19:25
itsnotabigtruckthey're not going to fix the wifi hotspot thing19:25
jpwhitingone device has it here, but the other doesn't19:25
jpwhitingjust being curious19:25
itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: all 00x variants should have it19:25
itsnotabigtruckyou might have a country variant image with a 2xx/3xx/4xx variant19:26
paitsnotabigtruck, i see 1033 that has been assigned internally19:26
itsnotabigtruckjust flash it19:26
itsnotabigtruckpa: supposedly it's to comply with FCC radio emission requirements19:26
itsnotabigtruckit's not a bug, they specifically added logic to detect if one is connected to a cell tower in the us19:26
djszapiN9jpwhiting, hi, how are you ?19:26
itsnotabigtruckad-hac wifi!19:27
jpwhitingdjszapiN9: I'm doing fine, you?19:27
paitsnotabigtruck, 1033 is requesting infrastructure hotspot19:27
jpwhitingitsnotabigtruck: I'm leary of flashing because of the dead device sitting here :p19:28
itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: you weren't able to get that exchanged? :(19:28
jpwhitingitsnotabigtruck: I don't really need it since I have another device19:28
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, ad-hack wifi ;)19:28
itsnotabigtruckwasn't it inoperative before you started flashing it?19:28
jpwhitingbut I'll be sending this dead one to nokia as soon as I get a chicago address19:28
jpwhitingyeah, it was19:28
itsnotabigtruckwith the very weird errors you received, i'm guessing something went wrong with the emmc19:28
itsnotabigtruckthat's the only real explanation for the rootfs refusing to flash like that19:29
jpwhitingyeah, probably19:29
jpwhitingdjszapiN9: this one that's still on PR 1.1 is PR_48019:29
itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: that's the answer19:29
jpwhitingso it's not available yet?19:29
itsnotabigtruckit's either a carrier-specific or country-specific variant that might never be upgraded19:29
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itsnotabigtruckwell, in the latter case it should be updated eventually...19:30
jpwhitingah, I see19:30
itsnotabigtruckbut they did all of the generic (001 through 009) images in a couple days, and none of the others yet19:30
itsnotabigtruckso that isn't very promising for non-generic image users19:30
djszapiN9jpwhiting, also fine, just moved into the new apartment few minutes ago, and i like it :)19:30
jpwhitingdjszapiN9: nice, moving isn't fun, but new places are19:30
itsnotabigtruckafter all that flashing trouble before i'm pretty sure you know it all already but i posted this yesterday
jpwhitingitsnotabigtruck: ok, maybe I'll try it later on some time19:31
itsnotabigtruckit talks about the downgrade restriction, downloading stuff, etc.19:31
jpwhitingah, very nice19:31
itsnotabigtruckwhile you wait for the download, you could install ad-hac :p19:32
itsnotabigtruckmeanwhile i need to get moving19:32
jpwhitingwhat's ad-hac, yeah I need to run soon too19:32
jpwhitingthis device is 059L5D1 swiss I believe19:32
itsnotabigtruck < previous link had a leading space in it19:33
itsnotabigtruckscroll up a little bit, i was describing it just before you said arrived19:33
itsnotabigtruckuh oh...more installation bugs19:35
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tehdelysorry itsnotabigtruck, i'm running late to work19:37
tehdelyi'll have to try ad-hac later19:37
itsnotabigtruckdon't actually install it yet19:37
tehdelybut let me assure you, i will.  i am your target audience19:37
itsnotabigtruckcrap, i know what went wrong19:37
itsnotabigtrucki didn't copy the new deb to my web server19:37
itsnotabigtruckjpwhiting: if you downloaded that, don't install it19:37
tehdelyi'm an american who doesn't mind getting nuked.  after all i never stopped drinking milk after fukushima, so what's a little extra radiatino from my N9 ;)19:37
djszapijpwhiting: true :)19:38
itsnotabigtruckok, NOW the correct version is up19:38
itsnotabigtrucki was wondering why the old bug came back, it's because i was using an old deb19:38
itsnotabigtruckok, currently uploaded ad-hac works19:39
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ZogG_laptopf#k, iwhat the f*19:49
ZogG_laptopi hate policy of ovi19:50
ZogG_laptopand pr1.0 in qtcreator19:50
paitsnotabigtruck, by the way, was it you suggesting to change an icon at runtime?19:50
itsnotabigtruckpa: probably19:51
pathere's the IP Address widget that does it19:51
pain python19:51
pai have to modify it, tho, as soon as i have time19:51
itsnotabigtruckit's simply a matter of modifying the desktop19:51
paand write the ip address in two lines, like this is not always readable19:51
itsnotabigtruckmy program uses glib (which has a parser that knows the .desktop file format)19:51
itsnotabigtruckbut simply doing a text search/replace often works19:52
itsnotabigtruckthat seems like an ugly application fora live icon though19:52
itsnotabigtruckhow about just having a gui app that shows network info19:52
itsnotabigtruckit should be ipv6 aware too19:52
pawell, it's practical still.19:53
payou need to see your ip, you click the button and see it19:53
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pano need to close it after19:53
ZogG_laptopso i took some parts of libs inside my app coz they avilable only in pr1.2, but say what? i need to modify other existens libs19:54
ZogG_laptopwhat the fuck19:54
ZogG_laptopjonni: what would you suggest me?19:54
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pado you know where call recorder store the files?20:02
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pai dont have sudo??20:07
djszapias we said you few days ago.20:07
pawell ok but what about sudo?20:07
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djszapiwhy would you use that on Harmattan ?20:08
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paso, say,20:09
pai want to do ln -s CallRecorder .CallRecorder20:09
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pahow do i do that? devel-su -c "ln -s blabla" ?20:09
djszapiwhy would you do that symlink ?20:10
pais that important? :)20:11
pamostly because i cannot see it otherwise as it's a hidden directory20:11
djszapiyes, it is important for me to understand the situation to be able to help you.20:12
jonniZogG_laptop: sorry didnt understand the question.-20:12
DrGrovEverything went well with the PR 1.2 update for the N9. But I wonder, why does the phone turn itself on when I am charging it? The power was off and on PR 1.1 it charges without powering up.20:13
paah so..20:13
pasymlinks are not permitted in harmattan..20:13
paeven as root "operation not permitted"20:13
pais that coz it's fat?20:14
djszapiI do not still understand why you would do that.20:14
djszapiit is aegisfs too.20:14
djszapicould you please present a scenario what you are now trying to achieve ?20:14
paMyDocs type vfat20:14
jonnihe wants to do that because mass-storage mode hides .-dirs20:14
ZogG_laptopjonni: the problem we talked earlier, that there is only 1.0 in qtsdk20:14
pai am trying to link the directory .CallRecorder to "CallRecorder"20:15
djszapipa: I know what ln does :)20:15
paso that i can see in the file browser without enabling hidden files20:15
jonniZogG_laptop: yep because you are only allowed to use 1.0 API's on ovi store apps.20:15
pabut yeah, no symlinks no party20:15
djszapipa: dp you really do this on desktop too ?20:16
paon desktop?20:16
djszapibecause all I would suggest is to fix the file browser.20:16
djszapior just use its configurability.20:16
ZogG_laptopjonni: f Ovi20:16
pai dont want to see hidden files and directories in a mobile file browser, honestly20:16
DrGrovApparently no one else is annoyed by this charging thing... LOL :)20:16
DrGrovIs it a setting or such that makes it turn itself on when I charge?20:17
DrGrovSecond question... What happened to the Online/Offline status bar on the drop-down menu on main screen?20:18
DrGrovI do not see it anymore...20:18
jonnidepends, on rd mode it autoboots on pr 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. And on normal mode it depends what what state it was before it was closed and how it was closed.20:19
DrGrovjonni: I closed it without any running apps, a clean turn off of the device.20:20
jonniclosed from commandline or ui?20:20
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jonniand if you close it from ui again while charging cable is in, does it autoreboot again?20:21
DrGrovjonni: UI. It rebooted itself once I upgrade to PR 1.2 and then I turned it off and wanted to charge it.20:21
DrGrovjonni: I have not tested yet to turn it off when I have the charging cable in. It did it once for me on PR 1.1 that it started once I plugged in the charging cable. Just once though. That happened because I put the cable a bit too slow and it got connection and powered on.20:22
DrGrovBut then I closed the phone and plugged back the charging cable to charge it and it did not turn itself on anymore like it did the first time.20:22
DrGrovjonni: Could the DIY OperatorLogo app cause the phone to start itself when I charge?20:25
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: doubt it20:25
itsnotabigtruckalso, it *always* starts when you attach to usb, into "act dead" (charging) mode20:25
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Hi. Ok, good to know. I thought since that is the last thing I installed.20:25
jonniagaik no, afaik charging behaviour has not changed in pr1.220:25
itsnotabigtruck(well, i can't speak as to what happens if you turn on rd-mode)20:25
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itsnotabigtruckit's not supposed to boot all the way though20:26
DrGrovWell, it did turn up a USB cable picture when I plugged it in. Strange, perhaps it thought it was going to be in USB mass storage mode.20:26
itsnotabigtruckthe updated NOLO in PR1.2 shows a usb icon whenever usb is attached20:26
itsnotabigtruckthat includes usb chargers20:26
DrGrovYes, that is the icon I saw.20:26
itsnotabigtruckbut after the NOKIA screen shows up for a while, you should just get a battery icon20:27
itsnotabigtruckinstead of booting all the way into the os20:27
DrGrovPerhaps it did not want to stay in "act dead mode" because of that20:27
DrGrovYes, I should get the battery icon. But I will try again later once I get it fully charged and checked a few things. THen I will try again to see if it boots itself all the way or not.20:27
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Have you got the chance to see what actually changes? I noticed that the closing of apps fading is so sexy. But not much else I have noticed.20:29
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DrGrovBut one thing I saw is that the Availability which shows online or offline status was missing from the drop-down menu where I see the profile, bluetooth etc.20:30
itsnotabigtruckwhat do you mean?20:30
DrGrovWhen I press the top "bar" where the operator name is it shows me the profile, volume, bluetooth etc.20:30
DrGrovBut on PR 1.1 it showed me the availability as offline but not anymore. It is completely missing, it was the 3rd option at the end.20:31
DrGrovCould it be because I only have 1 account and that being the Nokia account?20:31
DrGrovNo accounts like Twitter and/or Skype?20:32
DrGrovI always saw my status as Offline in PR 1.1 but now in PR 1.2 I do not see anything.20:33
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Do you know what I am trying to say? :)20:35
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ZogG_laptopfrals: ping20:46
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djszapimmh, what is the best way or breaking a horizontal positioner into more lines instead of exceeding the page width ?20:49
djszapiis there a simple wrap/break feature for that somehow ?20:50
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: oh, that's it20:54
itsnotabigtrucki was going to ask if you had any other accounts but assumed you did20:54
itsnotabigtruckthere's no need for availability if you don't have accounts to set it on :p20:54
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djszapijonni: aye, grid might do it.20:56
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ZogG_laptopharmattan_10.2011.34 is 1.1 or 1.0?21:23
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: you are using scratchbox right?21:39
ZogG_laptopdid you udapted it?21:40
djszapi"udapted" ?21:40
ZogG_laptopdo you use 1.0 as well?21:41
djszapinah I always used bleeding edge unreleased almost every single day21:41
ZogG_laptopi'm serious21:42
padoes anybody here use the N9 as alarm clock?21:44
phakoi do21:45
ZogG_laptoppa:  i do21:46
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paZogG_laptop, do you manage to turn it off when the screen is blank?21:49
pahere it only snoozes21:49
pacoz i have to press the button to turn on the screen21:49
paand it stops it from ringing21:49
pabut by snoozing it21:49
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itsnotabigtruckjonni: still around?21:58
itsnotabigtruckit looks like all the video calling app in ovi store does is tweak some configuration files during install21:59
itsnotabigtruckso, if all that had to be done is turn it on, any idea why this wasn't integrated into pr1.2?21:59
itsnotabigtruckit would be nice if at least the enabler package were in the repositories so novel connection managers could depend on it22:00
djszapiwhat you need to understand in the first place in general: simple thing != no high risks for regressions.22:00
paZogG_laptop, means no? :)22:00
itsnotabigtruckas it stands, if i understand correctly, since the enabler is closed source and not in the repos, every new video-calling enabled telepathy connection manager now has to implement its own version of video-call-installer22:01
itsnotabigtruckespecially since the latter is closed source22:01
itsnotabigtruckbut that would cause major problems on its own, with different video calling hacks conflicting with each other22:01
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djszapion top of regression risk, even if a task is only to pusha button, it is hard enough to work out, if there is nobody to actually push that darn button..22:12
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: ok, skip the "fold into pr1.x" part...what about loading it into the repo though22:15
djszapiyou saw the SDK team in action...22:15
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djszapiguess what..22:16
itsnotabigtruckok, fair enough22:18
djszapiit took me almost a year to make them update cmake22:19
djszapiwith a bugfix (!) release.22:19
djszapiand I finally did all the job for them (packaging, testing, etc)22:19
djszapithe SDK team is notoriously my antagoist :)22:20
itsnotabigtruckyeah, i've noticed :p22:21
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befordoh I made your app crash djszapi22:25
befordpressing the "solve" and "next" buttons too fast22:25
djszapiblolz :)22:25
itsnotabigtruckad-hac's now on obs22:25
djszapiyou mean c-obs.22:28
itsnotabigtruckyou get what i mean22:28
itsnotabigtruckc-obs is an obs, so both work22:28
djszapinot vica-versa22:28
decibytevim and screen seems to have disappeared after flashing 1.2 onto my n9. how do i get (the repository containing) them back?22:29
djszapiso might be a bit confusing here.22:29
djszapidecibyte: add the comm repo22:29
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ok, let me get this straight. So if I only have my Nokia account in Accounts then there will be no availability available from the drop down menu where I see profile, volume, bluetooth etc. ?22:29
djszapior remove the comment22:29
decibytedjszapi: ahh. of course. thx.22:31
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: right, because there's no availability to set22:31
itsnotabigtruckadd a skype or gtalk acount22:31
djszapiso how can my app crash even out of my code ? :o22:32
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: And with Skype or Gtalk account voila, it appears? :)22:32
djszapiand how to fix it meh22:32
* djszapi does not have the sake to truncate it22:32
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ok, good. Thanks for clarifying that for me. That was a nice surprise with the new PR 1.2. I always had to stare at availability otherwise, finally I got rid of it22:33
itsnotabigtruckhmm, it would be cool to have an icon with a flag with a wifi logo/icon/whatnot crossed with a us flag22:34
* itsnotabigtruck lacks the graphics mojo to pull that off22:34
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: i'm just assuming here...i haven't actually put an account on my pr1.2 install yet22:34
itsnotabigtrucksince i'm not using google talk, and while i use skype i'm trying to move away from it22:35
rdnzljabber would be nice :)22:37 account plugin that clones the google plugin but adds the all important ability to change the server is badly needed22:37
djszapithere was a guy here long ago writing one22:38
djszapi~seen djszapi22:38
infobotdjszapi is currently on #harmattan (2h 3m 32s). Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 5s, last said: '~seen djszapi'.22:38
rdnzlso what happened to it?22:39
itsnotabigtrucki think it's on github but half finished22:40
djszapiask him ?22:40
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djszapiI was personally also writing an ocs plugin, apps4meego involved, but I gave up when the designer betrayed me22:40
djszapithough it was mostly done.22:41
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: No worries. I think that is the cause why I do not see availability. I just got the Nokia account.22:41
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: ocs = office communications server?22:41
djszapiOpen Collaboration Services (our standard)22:42
djszapiwhich is used by opendesktop, gamingfreedom, apps4meego and the like.22:42
DrGrovAny way to follow up on what users have told about PR 1.2? Is there any thread on about PR 1.2 and user feedback?22:44
djszapiDrGrov: meego forum for instance22:44
DrGrovdjszapi: And where is that exactly located? :)22:45
DrGrovdjszapi: Thank you, I head there to see.22:45
DrGrovFeels like I am not getting out all of PR 1.2. I am sure I am missing something22:45
itsnotabigtruckjust downloaded something from depositfiles, it manages to be even worse than rapidshare22:46
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: all the little ui tweaks, the autoupdating calendar icon (but my app gets you that on pr1.1), homescreen folders, video calling (when you install that package from the ovi store that enables it)22:47
itsnotabigtruckautodetection of ovi store app updates22:48
itsnotabigtruckupnp audio server22:48
itsnotabigtruckprobably countless other little things i forgot22:48
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: That was huge, I got 700MB of updates after I installed PR 1.2.22:49
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, and continuous camera capture22:49
DrGrovI almost fell off my chair when I saw the amount :D22:49
itsnotabigtruckare you sure those weren't the updates to the preinstalled games22:49
itsnotabigtruckthe racing and golf games are huge22:49
DrGrovYes, updates to the preinstalled games. Some minor other updates as well, AccuWeather.22:49
itsnotabigtruckthey were updated as part of PR1.2 but the updates install separately from the OTA upgrade22:49
itsnotabigtruckbut since the updates are part of the 1.2 flash images, that doesn't count :p22:49
itsnotabigtruckalso preinstalled apps aren't retrieved from the ovi store22:50
DrGrovOk, but still 1GB of installing today was quite heavy to follow :D22:50
DrGrovOne thing I liked that I saw was that the Internet connection section was updated and made more clear.22:51
DrGrovA bit nicer I must say. I wonder though if I should enable background data or not... I am not sure if I should do it because the battery drain could become catastrophical22:51
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Is it possible to crop pictures directly on the N9 to make them fit as wallpapers?22:57
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: i'm not sure...i think pr1.2 added some on-device editing features too22:58
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ok :) Does the N9 play the actual recorded 720p HD or do I need to copy it from the device to my computer to be able to play it?22:58
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itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: i think it can do 720p, though no higher - but that's a waste of space23:02
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itsnotabigtrucksince the n9 is more like 480p23:02
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ok, I will try later to record some 720p and watch it. Luckily I can get it to the computer if needed.23:03
pait can play what it record23:03
pai dont know what sort of encoding it uses23:03
DrGrovpa: Thanks for clarifying it.23:03
DrGrovThe file format becomes .mp4 if I do not remember wrong?23:03
pait does, but im not sure what codec is used23:03
jonniit can play the video it records on 720p, but it cannot play external 720p x264 videos.23:03
DrGrovOk, thanks jonni and pa.23:04
DrGrovI gotta try it when I have something to record23:04
DrGrovBe back later, gotta test a few things on the N9.23:04
DrGrovThanks guys for the kind help once again :)23:04
paif you want a phone for video recording, this is not the one :)23:04
itsnotabigtruckwell, it has to be possible to get it to play "external 720p x264 videos" with the right settings -if- it uses h.264 for the video it records23:04
itsnotabigtruckbut it likely doesn't23:05
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pano, it's probably not h26423:05
pai tried to encode something with the simplest h264 settings at 720p, and it doesnt make it23:05
jonnimost likely it uses some codec which happens to be supported by N9 DSP, and most likely that is not h26423:05
DrGrovpa: Probably yes :) Could just be nice to get some 720p HD from some nice locations :)23:05
pawel that you can have23:06
DrGrovYay! Good good. But, I am off. Talk to you later.23:07
paalso the flash is not the best i've seen23:07
pameaning it's pretty weak23:07
trxit can record 720p and encode it with dsph26423:07
trxi use it to stream video to my pc23:07
trxbut thats not the same hardware23:08
patrx, hah funny.. you mean it can encode 720p h264 but not decode? :D23:08
trxi did not try to decode23:08
pai should still have that link23:08
pathere you find some 720p examples23:09
trxdid u use dsph264 or just h264 pin?23:09
pawhich played actually better than those i made..23:09
pai used the integrated player23:09
jonnithat page is useless, you should give pointer to 720p base profile example, its already stated that high and normal profiles dont work23:10
pajonni, funny enough those 720p videos play slow, but play23:10
pai made an example myself baseline23:11
paand it didnt open at all23:11
pa480p instead played smoothly23:11
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paand by the way, i found a page that say that 3630 can play 720p main, if you use gpu and cpu23:12
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: since pr 1.2 aegis is rejecting packages from the devel repo for the n923:13
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itsnotabigtruckblueslee: yup23:22
itsnotabigtrucki tried to get the word out but it was obviously not very effective23:22
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bluesleeoh man ... issues about issues with pr 1.2, i shouldnt have upgraded23:28
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itsnotabigtruckblueslee: it's not that bad...23:30
itsnotabigtruckthis is one bug, which can be worked around23:30
itsnotabigtruckvery annoying but it's not a catastrophic problem23:30
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itsnotabigtruckalso btw if you could bump that thread that would be awesome23:31
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rhkfinn950, writing message in portrait mode with HW keyboard always shows also the virtual keyboard. Not nice.23:32
bluesleeso far everthying went wrong since two days: bug 123 in pr 1.2 -> attempt to restore backup  with rescue image (not allowed since pr 1.2) -> attempt to install lps hacks installing packages from devel repo (also not allowed in pr 1.2)23:33
rhkfin.. and looses the 'send' button every now and then.23:33
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, REOP, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots23:33
patrx what is dsph264?23:34
trxdsph264enc i believe is the exact name23:35
bluesleei know that the n9 is not a developer phone but ...23:35
trxi assume that its dsp powered h264 encoder23:35
jonni  atleast looks like it can play some 720p's just fine. most likely that is base profile x264.23:35
jonniso it can decode 720p too23:36
trxyou can install gstreamer-tools and check out what else is there23:36
itsnotabigtruckso it's just a matter of tuning your videos for the requirements of the picky dsp decoder23:36
pajonni, ah funny23:36
itsnotabigtruckbut it does do 720p vids23:36
pathe one i made in baseline didnt work23:36
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: i guess the open mode will solve all my issues ... i will reactivate your mentioned thread, thanks for your observations and work23:37
paprobably i screwed up something in handbrake23:37
itsnotabigtruckis there anybody here right now based in the US23:37
jonniblueslee: you can always install deb packages by hand, its only rejecting the repo, not the packages.23:38
npmjonni: here's an example of a video that shoudld play buty doesn't23:38
itsnotabigtrucki.e. affected by the wifi hotspot problem23:38
bluesleejonni: too many packages and dependencies23:39
npmseems like an instance of
_MeeGoBot_Bug 683 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO WONTFIX, lags when playing HD videos23:39
jonninoway for me to download 400mb example23:39
npmwhich isn't a won'tfix23:40
npmjonni: don't download, stream23:40
npmit will play for one second, then die23:40
panpm how do you stream video on N9?23:40
pai mean, it works for me with kmplayer, but it looks like here not many use it23:40
npmthe same vid res in gets glitch or crashes QtMobility player23:41
paah qtmobility player..23:42
jonnipa: that link uses avc which isnt supported by dps23:42
npmgo to shell and do23:42
panot in the market i suppose23:42
npmthat's how to stream23:42
jonnitypo evening23:42
pavideo suite? interesting23:42
npmor find it in gpodder, and tell it to stream which wuill do same thing23:42
pait's there by default?23:42
npms the video player23:42
npmvideo suite and sour23:43
npm(re wontfix)23:43
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pain any case i dont really care anymore, since it plays its own 720p stuff, and for the rest, i probably dont have anything 720p baseline already, so i would have to reencode anyway23:48
pathen i can do it 480, as the screen is 480, and the video out is analog composite23:48
npmit actually has problems playing 480p from youtube, pr 1.0 didn't23:48
paif it's high profile , i guess it does23:48
pa(and yes, it probably is)23:49 doesnt use high profile though, atleast I havent seen any yet.23:49
paah, then there are some problems23:49
npmi tried all manner of disk and network playback in on pr1.2 and pr1.0 and imho it got slower on video23:50
npmit used to be able to play back 720p video for a while until the audio went out of synch or got quiiet23:50
jonnimight be that qmltube doesnt filter out high profile videos as it should23:51
npmit just uses the mobile download rates provided. works fine in "high quality mode" but that's trivial23:52
npmyou can set 360p 480 720 and 1080 (at least on my home version)23:52
npmand it'll do the right thing on my linux desktop (which was the point, getting it portable)23:53
npmbut telling it to explicitly download at 480p now, or playback will cause failure when it didn't before23:53
npmit's about the only thing that got worse, other than the scrolling text blur issue that nobody seems to see other than myself :-)23:54
jonnifor 3rd party youtube client pr1.2 might be pickier on detecting framedrops, whereas I havent seen any problems in the native youtube client.23:55
npmit crashes the app. that's very picky23:56
itsnotabigtruckisn't the "native youtube client" a web link andhtml5 video tags?23:56
npmand the app uses standard Qt Mobility video player23:56
npm   or ... svn checkout ; qtcreator qmltube/qmltube.pro23:57
npmsomeone feel free to fix it. i'm Two apps behind :-)23:58

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