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| ZogG_laptop | mardy: ping | 00:07 |
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| ZogG_laptop | frals:ping | 00:08 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WTF?! | 00:22 |
| Aranel | Any ideas to change security lock timeout from background? any API or gconf key or something? | 00:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aranel: if aegis wasn't completely configured fubar, it's forbidden | 00:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | Aranel: inadvertently setting timeout to 1s might well piss off user | 00:30 |
| Aranel | ah, I was planning to provide a manual lock app/shortcut, I was thinking of setting it to immediate, initctl restart devicelockd and set it back again. | 00:30 |
| Aranel | since locking screen API is not provided -at least with current credentials- either :| | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | same cheese, different flavour | 00:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually a nice example why aegis CONCEPT isn't helping to solve the targeted problem | 00:32 |
| Aranel | looks like there isn't a workaround for this, and Nokia guys closed my bug report with a WONTFIX, so there won't be any manual security lock option. | 00:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | *some* user might get fsckd by *some* app abusing it, so it's not allowed for *any* user and *any* (non-Nokia-)app :-/ | 00:33 |
| Aranel | well I asked Nokia to behave nice and provide lockscreen creds or develop a lock themselves (would take my 5, their 3 mins~), with no luck :| | 00:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | yup | 00:34 |
| Aranel | and that's why I really, REALLY want to go open-mode :) | 00:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, if aegis was configured correctly (based on 'correct' policies), it shall forbid printing chars to screen | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | as printing chars to screen also has potential to fsck *some* users with *some* rogue app | 00:35 |
| njsf | Ok, so for reference | 00:36 |
| njsf | fenix stores the email in /home/user/.qmf | 00:36 |
| Aranel | also, I think that's why something like Ovi QA (which is slower than a snail) is already in place | 00:36 |
| njsf | and removing it made it work again after the PR 1.2 mess | 00:36 |
| Aranel | to stop *some* malicious apps. | 00:36 |
| njsf | now its just the pain of restoring the apps | 00:36 |
| njsf | *aggg* | 00:36 |
| blueslee | rescue images for n950 stopped working properly for the n9 since pr 1.2, checked this with a clean pr 1.2 flash | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | honestly, CBA to seek for more headache with this HARM thing | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's fundamentaly FUBAR | 00:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I really prefer andidiot over HARM | 00:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | at very least antridot has *a future* | 00:39 |
| * DocScrutinizer ponders to kick himself for trolling | 00:39 | |
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| blueslee | my n9 is messed up, suffering from bug 123 and restoring full backups with rescue image does not work properly as pr 1.2 behaves different than pr 1.2, i get immediately warning messages when flashing the rescue images | 00:39 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, REOP, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 00:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i just wrote a guide about firmware flashing | 00:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | should i post it in the meego/harmattan forum or n9/n950 forum on tmo | 00:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also blueslee: yeah, i ran into that first | 00:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you have to do a full flash | 00:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | maybe you could test this guide i just wrote :p | 00:41 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: i did a full reflash and then the rescue images, the n9 shows up the warning (!) and does not reboot properly | 00:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | blueslee: that's the problem, booting the rescue image after installing PR1.2 immediately puts you into open mode | 00:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you want open mode, that's an easy way to get it | 00:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | otherwise, don't ever use the rescue image after installing pr1.32 | 00:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i posted an alert on tmo but no one really noticed it | 00:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82644&highlight=flasher maybe you could bump the thread :p | 00:44 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: missed your alert as i was in an endless reboot cylce with my n9:-) | 00:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, your N9 still should have been able to boot | 00:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it would have just been in open mode | 00:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and with the disclaimer every boot | 00:45 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: open mode was safe in the sense to get always back right? | 00:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, you can always undo open mode by doing a comprehensive flash | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 | 00:46 |
| blueslee | can you post your guide? | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i was waiting for someone to advise on which forum to use, i just put it in n9/n950 | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the thing is that everybody's talking about flashing stuff in the other forum | 00:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 00:46 |
| blueslee | wow, thats a comprehensive book:-) | 00:47 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: so there is a chance to restore my backups done with the rescue image? | 00:47 |
| blueslee | no or? | 00:48 |
| blueslee | i backuped home, rootfs and mmc with dd_rescue resp tar | 00:48 |
| blueslee | if i restore it i will break the open mode again | 00:49 |
| blueslee | hmm | 00:49 |
| blueslee | lets read the guide | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | blueslee: hmm...loopmount the stuff and selectively restore things using scp | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | after turning devmode on | 00:50 |
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| blueslee | nokia shoot me in my knees again with this change of behaviour | 00:55 |
| blueslee | first the annoying bug which is not solved in pr 1.2 and now i cant restore my "full" backups properly | 00:56 |
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| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: thanks for the unoffical firmware server | 00:57 |
| blueslee | i used a perl script for that | 00:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel njsf DocScrutinizer: any chance you could look over that forum post i just linked and see if you find anything that looks wrong? | 00:57 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: i will go the open mode asap, i am sick of those restrictions | 01:01 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: variant code downgrade is disallowed? I never noticed that one, what a dumb restriction. | 01:01 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | crap, why does this guy keep asking questions and then quitting, argh | 01:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: iknowright | 01:03 |
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| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: It looks okay, at least for GNU/Linux part. | 01:05 |
| tehdely | i still haven't seen a good explanation of what Open Mode actually is | 01:06 |
| tehdely | and what its drawbacks are | 01:06 |
| tehdely | anyone want to give me the executive summary? | 01:06 |
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| Aranel | infobot knows. | 01:08 |
| infobot | Not as well as [NewsBot] | 01:08 |
| tehdely | i'm just trying to get up to speed with years' worth of posts on the forums | 01:08 |
| tehdely | i've had my N9 for a whole day | 01:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: that's because there's been a lot of misinformation and stuff | 01:09 |
| Aranel | open-mode = wonderland, where Aegis no more cares about anything, gives away credentials, and shows you a scary notice on boot. | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, it's a mode that the N9 goes into if it detects you've done unauthorized things | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it a) displays said scary notice every reboot | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | b) enables an override in aegis that lets you install stuff with any permissions | 01:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | entering open mode from closed mode tends to break stuff though, so you should only try to activate open mode right after doing the "comprehensive reset" in my guide | 01:11 |
| Aranel | I think Aegis just bricks the device (=MALF) if it detects unauthorized things. Open-mode is only activated if you install an unsigned kernel. | 01:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: starting with PR1.2 open mode stays enabled until you completely reflash, once you trigger it | 01:11 |
| tehdely | MALF... expand acronym please | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | MALFunction | 01:12 |
| Aranel | I remember there was a bulls** app from Nokia, named Air UI, drove Aegis crazy and brick ppl's devices because of security concerns. | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's the screen that says "Device malfunctioning" that appears if you do certain things that aegis doesn't like | 01:12 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: oh, that's not nice :< | 01:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it doesn't "brick" per se...it displays the screen, then reboots after a certain amount of time | 01:13 |
| tehdely | so "Open Mode" is something that I can enable by flashing an alternative kernel | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however, if you have something that triggers a MALF early in the boot process | 01:13 |
| tehdely | and it is also something that I can revert by reflashing to factory images | 01:13 |
| tehdely | am i correct so far? | 01:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then it'll boot, MALF, boot MALF, and so on | 01:13 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | and that will cause it to brick after it realizes it's in a reboot loop | 01:13 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: until it drives you crazy and you remove /var/malf :p | 01:13 |
| tehdely | and does an Open Mode kernel exist for 1.2 | 01:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: no "open mode kernel", but you don't need that kernel to be in open mode | 01:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's why it's called a mode | 01:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however, what the patched kernel that DocScrutinizer made is cause su'ing to give you standard linux privileges | 01:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | not made by me | 01:15 |
| Aranel | afai remember reboot-loop MALFs are avoidable, if you find a way to end that loop from outside or if it decides to stop that madness. | 01:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *made does is cause | 01:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: hm? i thought everything on your site is from you or nokia | 01:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, also the patched kernel disables all permission checks | 01:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that isn't really just open mode - it's open mode + a kernel with a hacked aegis | 01:16 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | you can still do open mode things without it | 01:17 |
| tehdely | ok so how do i enter this mode | 01:17 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: look at the guide i posted, and continue through the "comprehensive reset", but stop before rebooting | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://wiki.meego.com/N950/Fixing_MALF_state go there and grab the rescue kernel/initrd | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then do: flasher --kernel=kernelfile --initfs=initfile -l -b | 01:18 |
| Aranel | I think there was some bugs against open-mode, are they fixed? | 01:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it should near-immediately display a disclaimer screen | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | wait maybe 30 seconds then disconnect the usb | 01:19 |
| tehdely | gotcha, so i want to first do a clean flash to pr1.2 (emmc, the works) | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah | 01:19 |
| tehdely | and _not_ reboot | 01:19 |
| tehdely | the phone won't reboot on its own? | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also i'm not 100% sure that procedure works if you weren't already on pr1. | 01:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *already on pr1.2 | 01:19 |
| tehdely | ok so i do the comprehensive reset | 01:20 |
| tehdely | then my immediate next step is to flash with the rescue kernel/initrd | 01:20 |
| tehdely | at no point in this process have i rebooted the phone | 01:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | on second thought...you might have to do this | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a) do the comprehensive flash, including the flasher -R | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this powers off the phone | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pull the usb right after you do it | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | b) do flasher -i again and reattach the phone | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | c) do that flasher --kernel stuff | 01:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not 100% certain about either procedure because i never actually put my phone into open mode together with a flash | 01:22 |
| tehdely | why all this tight timing with the USB | 01:22 |
| tehdely | what's the race | 01:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because simply having the phone attached to a powered usb boots it | 01:22 |
| tehdely | gotcha | 01:22 |
| tehdely | you did in fact explain this phenomenon yesterday | 01:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's also why you only need to attach the phone after doing flasher -i | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that boots it right after you plug in | 01:23 |
| tehdely | i should probably also install flasher so i can see what these flags actually mean | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh yeah | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it has integrated help, it isn't very good but it helps | 01:23 |
| tehdely | so when 'flasher -i' is running and i attach a phone | 01:23 |
| tehdely | the attached phone goes into some flashing mode | 01:23 |
| tehdely | instead of booting? | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | exactly | 01:23 |
| tehdely | bingo | 01:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's possible to skip flasher -i and go straight to the real commands, but it seems like it only works 100% of the time with the flasher -i step | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | otherwise you have weird timing problems | 01:24 |
| tehdely | i'm just going to go ahead and assume you're doing all of this from a linux system? | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nah, windows | 01:24 |
| tehdely | oh | 01:24 |
| tehdely | i can only run windows in a VM | 01:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the flasher utility works exactly the same way in linux | 01:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but downloading images is inconvenient without navifirm | 01:25 |
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| tehdely | so, in this Open Mode, are there things known not to work? | 01:27 |
| DrGrov | Evening | 01:27 |
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| tehdely | also, i don't quite understand what happens after i boot the phone with that rescue kernel | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: i don't think there's any issues provided that you follow the procedure exactly | 01:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | early on people didn't realize you had to nuke the phone before and after open mode | 01:28 |
| tehdely | open mode persists across further reboots, yes? | 01:29 |
| DrGrov | Any new news on PR 1.2 for N9 ? | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what happens is that the bootloader flips a bit in the calibration data region (CAL) | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because you loaded an untrusted kernel | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and every boot after that, it checks that and puts you into open mode | 01:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that behavior is new in PR1.2 btw - it didn't do that before in PR1.1 | 01:29 |
| tehdely | righteous | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ended up being a nasty surprise for blueslee and myself | 01:30 |
| tehdely | and are there things i can expect _not_ to work as long as the phone is running in Open Mode | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as far as i know, everything works - if it had DRM features those would probably turn off | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it doesn't | 01:30 |
| tehdely | i read mention of things to do with passwords, or proprietary apps | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | those were mostly due to not actually nuking the phone | 01:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you have any issues, please report them, you can always go back to closed mode by doing another comprehensive reset | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: well, it's out for all the unlocked phones now | 01:31 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ah, it is. Damn this. I have not been monitoring close enough then :/ | 01:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 check out my flashing manual i just wrote | 01:32 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: You probably suggest a backup first before updating to PR 1.2 ? | 01:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: yeah | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and then flash it through my guide, because SSU (auto upgrade) seems to not be worth it | 01:33 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Is it enough to do the backup on the device with the built-in backup app? | 01:33 |
| DrGrov | What is the issue with the auto upgrade from the device? | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i don't think it'll capture everything...i think some people lost their angry birds saves | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | back up /var/opt | 01:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the problem is that it's slow, fails a lot, and freaks out in a number of cases | 01:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | like if you have any unofficial repos added to apt | 01:34 |
| JackaLX | I'm happy to report that my 1.2 update went flawlessly and I've not found any issues with the phone since. | 01:34 |
| DrGrov | I was hoping to see something on the device that there would be an update available. This is a surprise. | 01:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also it starts reindexing your phone after you upgrade, which makes the new version feel slow for a while | 01:35 |
| tehdely | so as long as the phone is in 'open mode' it displays some ominous warning on every boot, but that's it as far as inconvenience? | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: it's a very ominous warning | 01:35 |
| tehdely | pray tell | 01:35 |
| DrGrov | JackaLX: Did you update with the built-in updater on the N9? | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the most ominous warning you've ever seen | 01:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the very sight of the ominois warning can paralyze mere mortals | 01:35 |
| JackaLX | DrGrov: yes (you mean via SSU, yeah?) | 01:35 |
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| DrGrov | JackaLX: Yes, through the phone. | 01:36 |
| JackaLX | yep | 01:36 |
| DrGrov | JackaLX: How long did it take for you to get it downloaded, installed and upgraded? | 01:36 |
| JackaLX | hmm, hour and a half maybe | 01:36 |
| DrGrov | JackaLX: What type of backup did you do before you started the upgrading? | 01:37 |
| JackaLX | wasn't paying that much attention to the time... too excited about the shiny lol | 01:37 |
| tehdely | i demand to know the contents of this warning | 01:37 |
| tehdely | i want to make sure it's something i can stomach | 01:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://media.photobucket.com/image/%2522big%20scary%20warning%2522%20n9/derjizm/n900/DSC02121.jpg | 01:37 |
| tehdely | hot DAMN that is ominous | 01:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you've been warned, about the warning | 01:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 01:37 |
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| tehdely | now does nokia actually know that i've PERMANENTLY VOIDED THE WARRANTY | 01:37 |
| tehdely | let's say something fails and i ship it off to an NCP | 01:38 |
| tehdely | as long as i reflash first i should be cool, right? | 01:38 |
| JackaLX | tehdely: well they'll know the first time they switch it on and have that warning hit them in the face LOL | 01:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure if anybody knows for sure | 01:38 |
| DrGrov | JackaLX: Or more like that what did you do in order to back up? | 01:38 |
| tehdely | i wonder if there's an equivalent of that water damage dot :> | 01:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you stuff up your openmoded phone, definitely do a comprehensive reset before even thinking about sending it in | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that won't help if the hardware is completely kaputt | 01:39 |
| Tronic | Does Nokia even use moisture indicator dots? | 01:39 |
| JackaLX | DrGrov: I just used the stock "backup" thingy on the device. But because everything went without a hitch, it was a pointless exercise for me. YMMV of course | 01:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's possible that a bit is flipped somewhere that nokia could check | 01:39 |
| DrGrov | JackaLX: Ok, I will use the stock backup app on the device then first. I hate to see something messed up lol | 01:39 |
| Tronic | N900 at least has no moisture indicators but I haven't disassembled other devices. I have successfully RMA'ed a disassembled N900, though. | 01:40 |
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| Tronic | Most likely the Nokia service guy won't bother to check for such things if the fault is clearly elsewhere. | 01:40 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | btw @everyone who hasn't looked at it yet: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 | 01:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you're familiar with the matter let me know if i'm off the mark on any of that | 01:41 |
| DrGrov | Can someone tell me how big that PR 1.2 update is? I am thinking if I need my faster connection or not for it | 01:41 |
| DrGrov | Or if I can do it on the road if needed | 01:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: SSU is 250 megs | 01:42 |
| DrGrov | Ok, then time to get the faster connection | 01:42 |
| DrGrov | It will otherwise kill me to have my 2Mbit connection on the road | 01:42 |
| DrGrov | LOL | 01:42 |
| DrGrov | But thanks, I will update come weekend since it takes time anyhow | 01:44 |
| DrGrov | Thanks for the help guys | 01:44 |
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| JackaLX | itsnotabigtruck: that's an excellent write-up on flashing. Is that article "sticky"? Should be if not | 01:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | JackaLX: i was thinking about asking for it to be made so, maybe once it gets a bit more attention | 01:46 |
| JackaLX | Might be worth mentioning the perl navifirm.pl script that can retrieve eMMC images in Linux | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but thanks | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh and yeah | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | once admiral0 makes his script download emmc images i'll probably put that in place of that website i linked to | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for now the website seems easier | 01:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: if you're going to openmode your phone now, let me know if my instructions worked | 01:49 |
| JackaLX | for me the perl script is 1000 times easier :-) | 01:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | since they're kinda speculative | 01:49 |
| JackaLX | is the script I'm talking about the one you are? | 01:50 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81697 this one? | 01:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | JackaLX ^ | 01:53 |
| tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: i'm not doing it till the weekend | 01:53 |
| tehdely | just in case of brickage | 01:53 |
| JackaLX | itsnotabigtruck: yeah, pretty sure that's the one I use | 01:54 |
| tehdely | my micro-SIM to SIM adapter hasn't arrived, so i can't currently switch back to my symbian phone in a jiff if i hork things | 01:54 |
| tehdely | and this is my main squeeze | 01:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | JackaLX: right, so both it and the website use the NSU update server, which only has main firmware images | 01:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but a while back somebody found the care suite server, which has all the files | 01:55 |
| JackaLX | could of sworn it had all the files already. :-( | 01:56 |
| * JackaLX checks again | 01:56 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm...if it does let me know | 01:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there should be 2 DFL61_HARMATTAN files | 01:57 |
| JackaLX | ah, no, it doesn't | 01:57 |
| JackaLX | has simlock files, the main image, and a couple aux files I know nothign about | 01:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, and that other stuff isn't necessary at all for flashering | 01:58 |
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| JackaLX | still worth mentioning navifirm.pl in that article though | 01:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | true | 02:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i need to release my enhanced adhoc wifi tweak now that PR1.2 is out | 02:01 |
| JackaLX | us old foggies would choose a command line alternative over a steenkin web browser any day of the week lol | 02:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | interesting | 02:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in PR1.2 they changed it from "Device malfunctioning" to "Device not working properly" | 02:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 02:09 |
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| tehdely | is it true that they disabled ad-hoc in the US to comply with FCC regs? | 02:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: yup | 02:09 |
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| tehdely | i find that particularly interesting since they don't even sell the phone here | 02:10 |
| tehdely | what gives? | 02:10 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | so i'm going to have to write disclaimers all over this saying it's not my problem if running my app causes black fcc helicopters to home in on your location | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and take you to a top secret underground federal communications commission detention center | 02:10 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, looks like that MALF thing isn't a pr1.2 change...but i could swear when i did it to my phone it said "malfunctioning" | 02:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hrm | 02:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and tehdely: but they have to pass FCC certification either way | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | an unlocked phone that you couldn't take with you into the US would be kinda undesirable | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | of course no one's really going to check, but... | 02:13 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | also, they were probably originally going to launch here | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | team elop neutering the N9's launch plans wasn't really anticipated | 02:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in fact at&t was probably considering shipping the N9 at some point, their logo is all over the icons directory | 02:14 |
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| tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: oh that's interesting | 02:15 |
| tehdely | wow | 02:15 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/n9-developer/2012/02/28/patience-is-a-virtue-when-waiting-for-a-platform-update lol @ this nokia dev blog post asking people not to flash | 02:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | on one hand, there probably is some sort of logic to their releasing arrangement, but on the other hand, flashing /works/ | 02:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, also, tehdely: regarding the wifi adhoc thing, what's really funny is that they allowed an app onto ovi that specifically overrides it http://store.ovi.com/content/257297?clickSource=related%2Bcontent&contentArea=applications&pos=3 | 02:23 |
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| ieatlint | the post really makes sense... they're trying to disuade you from doing something that could brick your device | 02:28 |
| ieatlint | is it likely to brick your device? no.. but it's hard to criticize them for warning you and saying it may not be covered by a warranty | 02:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ieatlint: right...the post is actually fairly reasonable | 02:29 |
| ieatlint | happily my last n9 got the 1.2 update today | 02:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | some nokia people have said some not entirely reasonable things about it, this is basically saying "unofficial things are unofficial" | 02:30 |
| ieatlint | yeah | 02:30 |
| ieatlint | the comments also give some helpful info on failed updates | 02:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | right, but they're failed updates using the mechanism that very blog post says to use :p | 02:31 |
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| ieatlint | yeah | 02:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw ieatlint: any chance you could look through http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 and let me know if it looks like i'm off the mark anywhere? | 02:33 |
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| franz` | http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1171760&postcount=1 | 02:41 |
| franz` | did anyone try this yet? | 02:41 |
| franz` | I'm excited at the possibility of a working avahi daemon | 02:41 |
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| beford | i dont even know what is avahi, but i support it | 02:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i saw it, haven't tried it | 02:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a shame there hasn't been much of a response | 02:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | come on guys, make some replies :p | 02:42 |
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| beford | I think I configured avahi mdns in order to get the mpd client of the ipad autodetect it | 02:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | avahi? is poettering | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~poettering | 02:44 |
| infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'' | 02:44 |
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| JackaLX | haha, yup, that pretty much describes him | 02:45 |
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| franz` | aww, I love avahi | 02:46 |
| franz` | most of my network is macs though, so I guess that plays onto it | 02:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer51: o.O good luck making your "word" stick | 02:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, just figured out that it's possible to pay for stuff in ovi store by credit card by turning on flight mode, starting the store, and letting it turn on wifi | 02:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a lot easier than doing the poweroff/remove sim/boot/buy/... exercise | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | took me like half a year to relize it's actually the recently introduced avahi that's the culprit when linux machines suddenly wouldn't get any DHCP lease anymore in heterogenous LANs | 02:49 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | some years ago when that cra.. errr stuff was new | 02:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | blame apple and the ietf then | 02:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mostly the ietf | 02:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also i thought that APIPA biznus only kicks in if obtaining a DHCP lease fails first | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | meh, I blame lennart for forcing it into each and every distro, just like PA | 02:51 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and then I happily kick avahi off my lawn | 02:52 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | and things start to work like a charm again | 02:53 |
| tehdely | ok so this is funny | 02:53 |
| tehdely | my N9 decided it was at 2% battery about 40 minutes ago | 02:53 |
| tehdely | and has been warning me about low battery ever since | 02:53 |
| tehdely | i was hoping it would drain and fully power off | 02:53 |
| tehdely | but that is not what has occurred! | 02:53 |
| tehdely | $ lshal | grep battery.charge_level.percentage | 02:53 |
| tehdely | battery.charge_level.percentage = 4 (0x4) (int) | 02:53 |
| tehdely | now we're up to 4%! | 02:53 |
| tehdely | ha ha | 02:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | LOL | 02:53 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, the battery charge meter is notoriously funky | 02:54 |
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| beford | i think there is a thread about that on TMO | 02:54 |
| tehdely | i wonder how much battery this thing actually has | 02:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't drain it too far though or you'll have problems | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | no surprise | 02:54 |
| tehdely | i'm trying to give it a full run down | 02:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you better put it on usb pronto | 02:54 |
| tehdely | oh really? | 02:54 |
| tehdely | what happens if it fully discharges | 02:54 |
| tehdely | is it like a Tesla Roadster | 02:54 |
| tehdely | :P | 02:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it has to have charge in order to charge | 02:54 |
| beford | dafuq | 02:54 |
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| tehdely | oh geez it is like a Tesla | 02:54 |
| beford | who invented that | 02:54 |
| beford | xD | 02:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's the best catch there is | 02:54 |
| tehdely | well how am i going to complete my experiment if i don't know how long it lasts on a single charge | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | nonsense | 02:55 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | well, i don't think it's that easy to get into that situation actually | 02:55 |
| tehdely | it will, i assume, power off at some point to preserve whatever trickle of power it has | 02:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure what you have to do to drain it far enough that it won't boot into charge mode | 02:55 |
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| Tronic | I must wonder how do they manage to create systems that cannot use power from the charger when the battery is entirely drained. | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | n900 charged without booting first, and N9 is supposed to do exactly same | 02:56 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | it does? why does it boot into act dead mode then | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's just extremely slow on charging that way | 02:57 |
| franz` | 2263 root avahi-daemon: running [Nokia-N9.local] | 02:57 |
| franz` | working | 02:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and i've heard about boot loops where it boots, refuses to boot because it's discharged, then boots again, over and over, because it's attached to usb but drained | 02:57 |
| franz` | not starting on boot though, odd | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | why it bootas into act_ded? simply to do ENUM | 02:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: upstart job is probably no good | 02:58 |
| tehdely | franz`: nice, avahi | 02:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm | 02:58 |
| franz` | I started it manually with /etc/init.d/avahi-daemon start | 02:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's the problem | 02:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there isn't supposed to be anything even in /etc/init.d | 02:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it needs to be upstartified | 02:59 |
| franz` | oh boy | 02:59 |
| franz` | where is the upstart dir? lol | 02:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | /etc/init | 02:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you run upstart jobs with /sbin/initctl start/stop/restart | 02:59 |
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| franz` | nothing of the sort there, ah, well | 03:00 |
| franz` | guess I won't be able to ask that guy to submit it to apps.formeego.org then | 03:00 |
| tehdely | has anyone established precisely what component of the system is disabling ad-hoc, btw | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | only catch about ~flatbatrecover is: you should use the original Nokia fastcharger, to get the D+/- fastchrg short | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so charging can use 500mA instead of 100 or maybe even 8 | 03:01 |
| tehdely | flatbatrecover == ? | 03:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer51: does the AC-10 work for that purpose or does it have to be AC-16 | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | ~flatbatrecover | 03:01 |
| infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover | 03:01 |
| tehdely | well there's no battery removal happening with this guy | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | applies too N900 | 03:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (AC-10 = N900 stock charger, AC-16 = N9 stock charger) | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i have both but often end up using the AC-10 because i don't have to fool around with a usb cable | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | so what? | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, you said it has to be the original nokia charger | 03:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but both of those are nokia chargers marketed as "fast chargers" | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | both are original Nokia | 03:02 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | right, but maybe the AC-10 works on the N900 only and the AC-16 works on the N9 only | 03:02 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | both have fastchrg signalling | 03:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok | 03:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | cool | 03:03 |
| tehdely | i find the charge signalling stuff really annoying | 03:05 |
| tehdely | i bought one of those portable battery thingamabobs to keep my phone juiced when i'm skiing | 03:05 |
| tehdely | and found out that it won't charge anything nokia | 03:05 |
| tehdely | at least none of my symbian handsets | 03:05 |
| tehdely | it just gives up. they "charge" for 1sec | 03:05 |
| tehdely | however the N9 does something new... it says "this can not supply enough power" (or something like that) | 03:05 |
| tehdely | but does appear to be drawing current fomr it | 03:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's strange...i thought non-nokia chargers charge, just slowly | 03:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the nokia chargers can overdrive past usb spec | 03:06 |
| tehdely | oh btw, what happens if i connect the phone in mass storage mode? | 03:06 |
| tehdely | what precisely gets mounted to my computer | 03:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ~user/MyDocs | 03:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is a fat32 part | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | N9(xx) uses up to ~1000mA from 'fastcharger'. Anything not delivering that will collapse and result in charging aborted | 03:07 |
| franz` | lol, apt-get remove --purge'd avahi-daemon, reinstalled that deb, and now there's no init.d script | 03:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: that's...weird | 03:08 |
| franz` | I had forgotten I had tried a fremantle avahi-daemon deb | 03:08 |
| franz` | so probably screwed it up forever | 03:08 |
| franz` | oh well | 03:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'd expect that if you deleted it yourself, then uninstalled without purging, then reinstalled | 03:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, guess that was it | 03:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw DocScrutinizer51: do the instructions in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 look proper to you? | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | sorry, on N900. won't check tmo now | 03:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh ok, np | 03:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | what's it about? | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | meh | 03:13 |
| franz` | it's working now... is there any other run on boot dir beyond /etc/init on harmattan? | 03:13 |
| franz` | I have no idea what I've done, just a reboot later it works automatically | 03:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer51: it's a guide to flashing the N9 | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | cool | 03:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with a lot of technical specifics that i want to run by people who know what they're talking about | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | will check in ~18h | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: there's a few other ways to get stuff to run on boot, but /etc/init's the main way | 03:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and its subdirectories | 03:15 |
| franz` | ah, ok | 03:16 |
| franz` | oh, subdirectory | 03:16 |
| franz` | missed that, d'oh | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | isn't that /etc/<new_name_of_events.d> ? | 03:17 |
| franz` | there's an /etc/init/apps subdir I missed the first time | 03:17 |
| franz` | aaand there's a /etc/init/apps/avahi-daemon.conf there | 03:17 |
| franz` | mystery solved | 03:17 |
| franz` | lol | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | hmm, maybe init is the new name of events.d? | 03:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer51: must be | 03:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also it seems that some users of australian carrier branded N9 firmware can't debrand their phones after updating to PR1.1 | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, is it initctl 'scripts' in there? | 03:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's the reason for the 2nd warning | 03:19 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/DA3gQTYv that's the avahi-daemon script | 03:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it needs to be figured out exactly when the image lock kicks in | 03:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also the person who reported it made it sound like it's irreversible when it fails - not sure if that's actually the case or just a misunderstanding | 03:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if it's possible to do something like upgrade the SW cert, but have everything else blocked - that's bad | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | yup | 03:20 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and that's quite possibl | 03:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, normally if it accepts the SW cert, it'll definitely accept everything named in the SW cert | 03:21 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's already known you can't revert from e.g. asian fiasco | 03:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | are you sure about that, lots of people have gone from PR1.1 003 (china) to PR1.1 009 (europe-2) | 03:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's why i put the paragraph in about reflashing the CMT, because that does cause a problem | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maybe that's been african fiasco | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | or whatever | 03:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | africa gets lumped in with 001 | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | it's actually mentioned in changelog or other docs shipping with N950 1.2beta | 03:23 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | oh yeah, it says that because of the downgrade rules | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the problem is that PR1.2beta shipped with 001 and 003 images only | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so once you go to 003 you can't go back to 001 | 03:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if they shipped an 009 image, or a final PR1.2 release, you could flash away from 003 | 03:24 |
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| hiemanshu | anyone what does gallery use for the facial recognition? | 05:05 |
| hiemanshu | +know | 05:05 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | hiemanshu: as in which library? | 05:19 |
| hiemanshu | yes | 05:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | does it do its own recognition, or read exif tags that the camera put in | 05:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *camera app | 05:20 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | i know the camera app uses some gstreamer plugins that do face detection | 05:20 |
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| djszapi | libfacerecognition I guess | 06:00 |
| djszapi | but of course, you can check out the dependencies... | 06:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw is there anything like FCamera for the n9? | 06:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i noticed that pr1.2 comes with libfcam now | 06:08 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: looks like a prop thing | 06:09 |
| hiemanshu | why didn't they just use opencv :/ | 06:10 |
| djszapi | well, for several reasons. | 06:11 |
| hiemanshu | like? | 06:12 |
| djszapi | also, when I last checked some opencv low-level library, it was a hilarious crap | 06:12 |
| hiemanshu | well opencv is one of the best available out there | 06:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just fyi something is crap, it isn't a crap :p | 06:14 |
| JackaLX | so where's this you-beaut video calling that Nokia made a point of bragging about in the notification that hit my phone last night for 1.2 update? | 06:23 |
| djszapi | but the point is that we do not need "out there" to get a crappy implementation | 06:24 |
| djszapi | whenwe wrote a face recognition library on our own with my friend, it wasted our time a lot to understand what the heck they did with zillion lines...ended up dropping their concept altogether, go to the wikipedia, understand the theory, and code the method in few lines. | 06:25 |
| hiemanshu | opencv does a lot more than face detection, it uses haar cascades | 06:26 |
| djszapi | we were discussing face detection | 06:26 |
| djszapi | recognition* | 06:26 |
| hiemanshu | yes | 06:27 |
| hiemanshu | even I meant that, but my point being extending opencv would be much more fun developer wise | 06:27 |
| beford | JackaLX, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1172411#post1172411 <- I suppose you need that | 06:27 |
| JackaLX | beford: I'll take a look in a min... just out the door right now | 06:28 |
| beford | http://store.ovi.com/content/259046# <- JackaLX that | 06:28 |
| djszapi | no, we did not wanna touch that library with my friend back then ... (note, not a Nokia project)... | 06:28 |
| beford | i'm not using pr1.2 | 06:28 |
| djszapi | it was less painy just to drop it altogether and write the functionality we needed. | 06:29 |
| djszapi | in a way prettier code. | 06:29 |
| hiemanshu | djszapi: did you use eigenfaces? | 06:29 |
| djszapi | hiemanshu: well, it was a hobby project that we wanted to base a company upon: http://www.maxuna.com/ | 06:31 |
| djszapi | but never ended up any serious | 06:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, i need a package manager icon for my adhoc enabler | 06:32 |
| djszapi | beford: I am still unable to reproduce that bug :/ | 06:40 |
| beford | heh | 06:44 |
| beford | it happened twice for me in the same game | 06:46 |
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| djszapi | strange | 06:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyone in the US on atm? | 07:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | need someone to validate my ad-hoc enabler | 07:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://zunedevwiki.org/misc/ad-hac_0.1_all.deb | 07:11 |
| franz` | I am | 07:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: start the wifi hotspot, note that it won't launch | 07:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | install ad-hac | 07:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then start wifi hotspot again | 07:13 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/g7XVtLMe not installing | 07:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm...it worked when i used pkgmgr install-file | 07:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | very strange | 07:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw that error message is expected | 07:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but the postinst script failing is not | 07:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in fact i should add a 2>/dev/null there to shut it up | 07:14 |
| franz` | and wifi hotspot is working now! | 07:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yay | 07:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm rolling a new version of the package | 07:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm just ignoring errors from wl1271-cal now since it's non-fatal | 07:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: ok, try the same URL again | 07:17 |
| franz` | ok | 07:17 |
| franz` | installed cleanly now | 07:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | alright, awesome | 07:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | unlike the other adhoc enabling arrangements, this one prevents adhoc from ever being disabled in the first place | 07:18 |
| franz` | do the same thing on the uninstall script | 07:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | already did | 07:18 |
| franz` | it gives me a similar error message on apt-get remove ad-hac | 07:18 |
| franz` | oh | 07:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | did it give the dbus error, or just the couldn't write mac error | 07:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it shouldn't display the dbus error ever during the postrm | 07:19 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/jKXqytJP | 07:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's strange... | 07:20 |
| * itsnotabigtruck tests again on my end | 07:20 | |
| franz` | ~ # cat /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm | 07:22 |
| franz` | #!/bin/sh | 07:22 |
| franz` | # Re-run the WL127x calibration utility to reset adhoc state | 07:22 |
| franz` | /usr/bin/wl1271-cal | 07:22 |
| franz` | oh whoops | 07:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, i know what's going on | 07:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because it's in /etc it's considered a conffile | 07:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because it's a conffile it's not removed unless it's purged | 07:24 |
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| franz` | what if you add a space between the 2 and the > on your postrm script? | 07:32 |
| franz` | that seems to fix it here... kinda | 07:32 |
| franz` | the error message changes to dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute installed post-removal script (/var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm): Operation not permitted lol | 07:33 |
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| djszapi | just rebuild the package of course ... | 07:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: hold on, let me upload the latest version | 07:39 |
| franz` | ok | 07:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | purge what you have installed right now | 07:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (dpkg --purge ad-hac) | 07:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and don't modify package hooks...aegis doesn't exactly like that | 07:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's a force flag you can use | 07:40 |
| franz` | oh? | 07:40 |
| franz` | yeah dpkg --purge ad-hack gives me the same error | 07:41 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/TZrW0N4X | 07:41 |
| djszapi | you might wanna just reinstall ... | 07:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: dpkg --purge --force-remove ad-hack | 07:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | very useful, but undocumented for some reason | 07:42 |
| djszapi | why wouldhedosucha hack ? | 07:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | except, ad-hac, not ad-hack | 07:43 |
| djszapi | force is in general best to avoid | 07:43 |
| djszapi | reinstall shoulddo | 07:43 |
| franz` | dpkg: unknown force/refuse option `remove' | 07:43 |
| franz` | strange | 07:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: because reinstalling the package will just invoke the broken script again | 07:43 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmmm | 07:43 |
| djszapi | reinstall should work oob | 07:43 |
| djszapi | do not overcomplicate it pls. | 07:44 |
| djszapi | with undocumented and unrecommended "features". | 07:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: try using it with dpkg -r instead of dpkg --purge | 07:44 |
| franz` | dpkg --purge --force-remove-fail ad-hac did it | 07:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh, that was it | 07:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's been a while since i used that flag | 07:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, let me upload a fresh deb | 07:45 |
| djszapi | lol disaregarding a fail | 07:46 |
| djszapi | in order to mess up the system | 07:46 |
| djszapi | how smart... | 07:46 |
| franz` | lol, it's just a small script, won't mess up anything | 07:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: because it's my script and i know nothing will be messed up | 07:46 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | anyway, it's reuploaded - download again from the same url | 07:47 |
| franz` | ok | 07:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm pretty sure i have all the kinks worked out | 07:47 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: it is called stubornness | 07:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 07:47 |
| djszapi | there is a way I said, and you insist on using a broken workflow | 07:47 |
| * djszapi feels useless for help if it is not even considered in comparison with a broken workflow | 07:48 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | reinstalling a package involves the hook scripts on both the old and new packages | 07:48 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/h2JzSUNh | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so if you have a package installed with a b0rked postrm or something like that | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then installing a new one over it won't help | 07:48 |
| djszapi | of course it will. | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and thanks to aegis you can't hack the scripts in /var/lib/dpkg/info | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is what's often recommended | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you need --force-remove-fail | 07:48 |
| djszapi | not really. | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which imo is the elegant way to fix it | 07:48 |
| djszapi | that is unfortunately false | 07:48 |
| djszapi | you can remove it anytime. | 07:49 |
| djszapi | even manually actually. | 07:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: you downloaded the latest one? how can it possibly fail! | 07:49 |
| djszapi | so let me consider myself useless for trying to help a,dn let you guys go with the broken workflow. | 07:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it does no error checking and redirects all output to stdout/err | 07:49 |
| djszapi | and of course a simple a modification back would have done it. | 07:49 |
| djszapi | so there are actually more cleaner way then forcing an action even on fail whichis heavily against any recommendation. | 07:51 |
| djszapi | and apparently even documentation. | 07:51 |
| franz` | wait hold on | 07:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: force options are there for a reason | 07:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's a time for every flag | 07:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this is the time for force-remove-fail | 07:51 |
| djszapi | no | 07:51 |
| djszapi | this is a hack | 07:51 |
| djszapi | I said more cleaner way working | 07:51 |
| djszapi | you can insist on being stubborn | 07:51 |
| djszapi | acleaner* | 07:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: what's strange is that installed/removed perfectly over here | 07:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | make sure there isn't any trace of it left around | 07:52 |
| franz` | ~ # dpkg --get-selections | grep ad-hac | 07:53 |
| franz` | ad-hacpurge | 07:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. maybe aegis left some old hashes in the refhashlist for some reason | 07:53 |
| franz` | that's what I get | 07:53 |
| beford | in completly unrelated news I got a new lap from my work. it has windows on it so i will install navifirm and your tutorial tomorrow itsnotabigtruck | 07:53 |
| djszapi | welcome to the borked system | 07:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | beford: cool | 07:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: grep ad-hac /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist | 07:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ls /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.* | 07:53 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: it would be nice if you do not recommend people such things as the "best solution". | 07:53 |
| djszapi | you cansay, this is the best you can come up with. | 07:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: force-remove-fail worked for me before...tbh i'm not sure what's going on | 07:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i don't think it has to do with the force | 07:54 |
| djszapi | sure you know aegis better, too :D | 07:54 |
| * djszapi afkk | 07:55 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | well no, i never said that :p on second thought perhaps force-remove-fail did screw up the hooks to update the hashes | 07:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: what happens if you install it a second time | 07:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'll be back in 15 | 07:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | cafe is closing now | 07:56 |
| franz` | alright | 07:56 |
| franz` | lemme try | 07:56 |
| franz` | reinstalled a second time, it installs but still gives me that error exit status 3 | 07:59 |
| franz` | and the hashlist thing gave me this http://pastebin.com/8KEwEDkw | 07:59 |
| JackaLX | gah! that'd be right... installed that "GTalk Video Call" and none of my gtalk contacts seem to have video capability at their end. I have the best luck. LOL | 08:02 |
| franz` | wow, google is fast, googling for what does "error exit status 3" means, http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=subprocess+installed+post-removal+script+returned+error+exit+status+3&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 my pastebin post is already there | 08:03 |
| JackaLX | franz`: it is likely that pastebin updates their sitemap.xml file on google whenever somebody pastes something | 08:04 |
| JackaLX | or, you were very lucky to paste a second or two before googlebot arrived for the day :-) | 08:05 |
| franz` | haha | 08:05 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | back | 08:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | franz`: back | 08:07 |
| franz` | hi | 08:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | can you patch the postrm script to what it was before? | 08:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think that'll fix it... | 08:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it looks like it never really got removed | 08:07 |
| JackaLX | The new "colour profile" setting... does anyone know if setting that to "vivid" is much of a drain on the battery? | 08:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think errno 3 = EPERM | 08:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | = an error that rarely occurs on non-aegis systems | 08:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's normally reserved for e.g. chowning a file you don't own already | 08:08 |
| franz` | edited the postrm file | 08:09 |
| franz` | dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute installed post-removal script (/var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm): Operation not permitted | 08:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sha1sum it | 08:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if it doesn't match what was in the refhashlist it won't run | 08:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it has to be byte for byte identical | 08:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sha1 = 539f606a11240a9947f27e96fb484ffe454456db | 08:09 |
| franz` | doesn't match lol | 08:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh wait | 08:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's the sha1sum for the newest postrm | 08:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | aegis loaded the hashes for the new files | 08:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://crypty.ch/p/tenT5vot#3a17f817bc3f7450eadf716c9b4f2994 | 08:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | put that inside postrm | 08:11 |
| franz` | just checking, editing the file with nano is fine right? | 08:12 |
| franz` | yeah back to error exit status 3 | 08:12 |
| franz` | so it's not the aegis hash | 08:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yup, nano is fine | 08:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sha1sum it again and make sure it's a match | 08:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | make sure there isn't a trailing newline | 08:12 |
| franz` | 539f606a11240a9947f27e96fb484ffe454456db /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm | 08:12 |
| franz` | yep | 08:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well that's "awesome" | 08:13 |
| franz` | lol | 08:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't worry, i'll get this cleaned up one way or another | 08:13 |
| franz` | haha no problem, I tried installing another deb just to see what happened, it works fine | 08:13 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck: you would not waste your and others' time, if you listen to other tips carefully. | 08:14 |
| djszapi | it is fine, if you do not always have the best answers :) | 08:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what happens if you run the postrm script directly from the command line | 08:14 |
| franz` | runs normally | 08:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and what happens if you do dpkg --purge ad-hac again | 08:14 |
| franz` | same error exit status 3 | 08:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but what about the output | 08:15 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/Nc5NZkEk | 08:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so still on the post-removal script, hrm | 08:15 |
| franz` | so what exactly does that EPERM error mean? | 08:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | cp -a /var/lib/dpkg/status /root/; mv /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.* /root/ | 08:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then nano /var/lib/dpkg/status | 08:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and carefully edit out the lines about ad-hac | 08:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | making sure not to break it | 08:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (if something goes wrong, that's what the backup was for) | 08:17 |
| franz` | ok | 08:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then install the newest ad-hac deb again and i think it'll work | 08:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | EPERM = Operation not permitted = what aegis returns if it doesn't like something | 08:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so more or less every aegis-related issue causes EPERM errors | 08:18 |
| franz` | ah, I see | 08:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what that normally means is a) running a binary with the wrong hash | 08:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | b) trying to exercise a capability your process doesn't have | 08:19 |
| franz` | subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 3 | 08:23 |
| franz` | even after editing /var/lib/dpkg/status | 08:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, so now it's failing on the postinst script | 08:23 |
| franz` | ad-hacinstall | 08:23 |
| franz` | it's marked as installed with --get-selections | 08:24 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | don't use that, use dpkg -l ad-hac | 08:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think get-selections is showing what it's supposed to be, not what it is | 08:24 |
| franz` | oh | 08:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so if you tell it to purge and it fails, it remembers you tried to purge it | 08:24 |
| franz` | http://pastebin.com/CUGLykAG | 08:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | installed - half-configured | 08:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which makes sense, that's what happened | 08:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | how about purging it again now | 08:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | dpkg --purge ad-hac | 08:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then check refhashlist and see if it remembers ad-hac still | 08:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | grep ad-hac /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist | 08:25 |
| franz` | subprocess installed post-removal script returned error exit status 3 | 08:25 |
| franz` | and refhashlist still remembers it | 08:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | gah | 08:25 |
| franz` | remembers the postrm and postinst | 08:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | mv /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.postrm /root/ | 08:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | dpkg --purge ad-hac | 08:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | kinda forgot you could do that - i think that will make it think there isn't a postrm script to run | 08:27 |
| franz` | ooh, no errors! | 08:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nice | 08:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, check refhashlist now | 08:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if it's clean you're good to go | 08:27 |
| franz` | it remembers postrm | 08:27 |
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| franz` | ls: /var/lib/dpkg/info/ad-hac.*: No such file or directory | 08:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it remembers postrm, as in postrm is still listed in aegis? | 08:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmmm | 08:28 |
| franz` | still on refhashlist yes | 08:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if you install ad-hac now i think it'll overwrite that entry | 08:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as long as postinst is gone | 08:28 |
| franz` | subprocess installed post-installation script returned error exit status 3 | 08:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so much for that | 08:29 |
| franz` | would you be fine with ssh-ing into my phone yourself? lol | 08:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi 1 truck 0 | 08:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you don't mind me doing that, sure, that would work | 08:30 |
| franz` | pming | 08:30 |
| mardy | ZogG_laptop: pong :-) | 08:30 |
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| djszapi | mardy: how are you mardynowadays? | 08:33 |
| djszapi | mardy nowadays* | 08:33 |
| * djszapi should clean up the chips under the space button :) | 08:34 | |
| mardy | :-)) | 08:34 |
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| mardy | djszapi: fine, thanks, and you? | 08:34 |
| djszapi | mardy: nice, I am also fine. Are you still in Helsinki or not anymore ? I have last seen you at the first meego meetup :) | 08:35 |
| djszapi | weorganize qt meetups nowadays at least. | 08:35 |
| mardy | djszapi: yes, still in Helsinki, and even more interested in Qt | 08:35 |
| mardy | djszapi: I didn't know about the Qt meetups, do you have a link? | 08:36 |
| mardy | (I'm porting Mappero to Qt) :-) | 08:36 |
| djszapi | http://www.meetup.com/QtEverywhere/Helsinki-FI/ | 08:37 |
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| djszapi | mardy: not sure whenwe find a sponsorfor the next one, but you are welcome. :) | 08:40 |
| ieatlint | is there still no "find on page" for the browser in 1.2, or am i just missing it? | 08:40 |
| JackaLX | fun easy way to check on your battery status without looking at your phone (needs ssh set up with keys)... | 08:47 |
| JackaLX | ssh -Y developer@YOUR_N9_IP lshal|awk '/battery.charge_level.percentage/ {print $3; exit;}' | 08:47 |
| JackaLX | oh, and gpg-agent so you don't need to worry about passphrases :-) | 08:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it turns out it was failing simply because my hook scripts were messed up | 08:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | hiemanshu: you don't think Nokia developed that face-det themselves, do you? It's a buy-in, like useless yoghurt sport, and a lot of other things. Possibly they don't even have source, for *sure* they don't have (C) so they could share it | 08:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the strange thing is how it didn't fail on my end | 08:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in any case, it's fixed now | 08:51 |
| djszapi | backto the fedex stuff: it is for free | 08:52 |
| djszapi | coming from a company called Buston or something like that | 08:52 |
| djszapi | andthey saiditis a cotton t-shirt | 08:52 |
| djszapi | is* | 08:52 |
| djszapi | njsf: ^ | 08:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 08:57 |
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| djszapi | hopefully xxl like at FOSDEM... | 08:59 |
| djszapi | which like a giant for me :) | 08:59 |
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| djszapi | anybody Notary for Blackberry here ? | 09:13 |
| djszapi | :D | 09:13 |
| djszapi | interesting, how strict process it is | 09:14 |
| tehdely | wow | 09:18 |
| tehdely | RIM really does make you work hard to dev for them | 09:18 |
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| sony123 | hi all | 09:23 |
| sony123 | I have a question: WiFi scanning on my N9 is broken after a WiFi hotspot session | 09:23 |
| sony123 | Anyone else experience this issue? | 09:24 |
| djszapi | brokeninwhatsense | 09:24 |
| djszapi | broken in what sense ? | 09:25 |
| sony123 | No SSID are shown on the 'Connect to internet' list | 09:25 |
| sony123 | I'm in US btw | 09:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: once i make it not screw up your phone, you should install the package i'm working on :D it's a better way to enable ad-hoc for us users | 09:26 |
| sony123 | Hi itsnotabigtruck | 09:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no idea about the actual problem though, heh | 09:27 |
| sony123 | Acutally I have an app that does that, basically a GUI interface to set allow_adhoc to 1 | 09:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | spoton? | 09:28 |
| sony123 | yeah | 09:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | is it your app | 09:28 |
| sony123 | yes | 09:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ah ok | 09:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's a cool way to do it, but what i'm working on blocks adhoc from being disabled in the first place | 09:29 |
| sony123 | I got tired of digging into terminal to enable allow_adhoc | 09:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's just always on | 09:29 |
| sony123 | yeah that's a nicer way | 09:29 |
| sony123 | So in your case, after your tethering session, the WiFi scanning still works? | 09:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no idea because i haven't actually used the wifi hotspot at all | 09:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the method of toggling allow_adhoc shouldn't affect it either | 09:31 |
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| sony123 | Yeah I actually just use it once... so I didn't notice this weird behavior before... | 09:32 |
| sony123 | I feel it's something else, either in joiku or harmattan system.... | 09:33 |
| sony123 | But I don't think I can file a bug report on that.... | 09:33 |
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| sony123 | The use case is invalid :p | 09:34 |
| djszapi | or wontfix | 09:34 |
| sony123 | Exactly | 09:34 |
| sony123 | Maybe I will check what joiku touches later | 09:36 |
| sony123 | By the way, thanks djszapi for your earlier response regarding root access | 09:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it doesn't sound like the use case is invalid | 09:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | assuming that joikuspot is already closed | 09:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but yeah, it's doubtful it's possible to get it fixed :( | 09:37 |
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| djszapi | sony123: I responded to you ? :P | 09:37 |
| sony123 | Well the reason is... WiFi hotspot is crippled in US | 09:37 |
| * djszapi has a very fragmented memory | 09:37 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | my guess is that pr1.3 is already pretty frozen already given the release schedules in the past | 09:37 |
| djszapi | that is not a real problem | 09:38 |
| sony123 | It's a feature not a bug, so it's a use it at your own risk case | 09:38 |
| djszapi | theproblemis that we (or wellactually they from today) are afraid of regressions. | 09:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sony123: this is assuming that the bug applies outside of the US where the adhoc lock doesn't kick in | 09:38 |
| sony123 | @djszapi I remember so... | 09:38 |
| djszapi | sony123: pr1.3 is a bugfix release. | 09:38 |
| djszapi | sony123: gladI helped you then :) | 09:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently apple's sales per annum are higher than qatar's GDP | 09:40 |
| djszapi | oh yeah, btw any reviews are welcome today for kanagram | 09:40 |
| sony123 | I posted on TMO to see if anyone else outside US has this issue | 09:40 |
| djszapi | there is going to be an assessment of the reviews today | 09:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw djszapi: as much as you might dislike my approach of indiscriminately flashing all the phones!!!!, does http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 look reasonable to you? | 09:41 |
| djszapi | sorry, slow internet | 09:42 |
| djszapi | cannot check atm | 09:42 |
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| sony123 | I guess I'll wait and see whether to file a bug report...... | 09:43 |
| sony123 | Thanks guys | 09:43 |
| djszapi | do not go through too much trouble with that though | 09:44 |
| sony123 | Sure | 09:44 |
| sony123 | Btw, why isn't there a meltemi channel :) | 09:44 |
| djszapi | there is | 09:45 |
| djszapi | I registered it long ago | 09:45 |
| djszapi | about bugreporting at this phase: | 09:45 |
| flux | hm, is meltemi development going to have an "open" aspect in it? | 09:45 |
| djszapi | I do it only for my professional privde | 09:45 |
| djszapi | pride* | 09:45 |
| djszapi | I do not expect or even hope for anything. | 09:45 |
| djszapi | flux: it is qt5 | 09:46 |
| djszapi | so it surely has a little bit of open aspect :P | 09:46 |
| sony123 | That's interesting... I thought it's gonna be too tight to get released Qt 5 judging by the schedule | 09:47 |
| djszapi | sony123: the qt5releaseschedulewasplanninglong ago | 09:47 |
| sony123 | I googled by cannot find meltemi channel? So it's a closed one? | 09:47 |
| djszapi | planned* | 09:47 |
| djszapi | there is a meltemi channel registered on freenode | 09:47 |
| flux | djszapi, and n9 uses Qt 4.7, so it's about as open then?-) | 09:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with 1 person inside :p | 09:48 |
| djszapi | flux: no,qt5 had the open governance model | 09:48 |
| flux | (actually n9 has very open parts, so I'd like to see that with Meltemi as well) | 09:48 |
| djszapi | they backported it to qt4 though | 09:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | given that meltemi is targeted as being an s40 replacement i can't imagine it's that interesting to anyone here (at least for personal use) | 09:49 |
| djszapi | well, I am interested in that | 09:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though i don't know...since you've worked on it i suppose you know if it's awesome | 09:50 |
| djszapi | if you mean the next billion... | 09:50 |
| sony123 | oh I thought Qt 5 release is around summer... now realized WiKi says Q1 2012. That makes more sense... | 09:50 |
| djszapi | sony123: nah, it is summer | 09:50 |
| flux | so it's not going to be a high-end device. but it's going to run Linux and Qt5, so probably it's much nicer to develop than the current s40 phones. | 09:50 |
| djszapi | around the contributors day | 09:50 |
| djszapi | I mean the final release. | 09:50 |
| flux | I think the only way it's not going to be nice for developers is that it is crippled somehow | 09:50 |
| djszapi | flux: what do you mean by high-end ? | 09:51 |
| flux | djszapi, S40 = el cheapo, so not big and colorful screens, not the best cameras, not the biggest capacity, etc? | 09:51 |
| djszapi | I think what you forget is that less smart phones are also getting smart | 09:52 |
| djszapi | so it is not like you have a functionality for calling, and period. | 09:52 |
| sony123 | meltemi is way better than s40.... | 09:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | flux: well, S40 = low priced "dumbphones" that run J2ME apps | 09:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they're among the more sophisticated dumbphones out there, but yeah | 09:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | meltemi i assume is a lot more advanced than that | 09:53 |
| djszapi | please use "next billion" instead of meltemi | 09:53 |
| djszapi | that is the public information | 09:53 |
| djszapi | and many Nokians cannot speak about non-public information here. | 09:53 |
| flux | it's not only about the potential capabilities the devices could have, it's also about market segmentation | 09:53 |
| djszapi | so it makes the communication hard | 09:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but still, if the goal is to mass produce very large amounts of them for developing markets | 09:53 |
| flux | if meltemi phones are going to be cheaper, they also 'need' to have less features in order not compete with the high-end offerings | 09:53 |
| flux | for that purpose some of their features could be crippled. say, multitasking.. | 09:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not going to be on expensive high performance hardware | 09:54 |
| djszapi | "if meltemi phones are going to be cheaper, they also 'need' to have less features in order not compete with the high-end offerings" -> that is not howthe market actually works | 09:54 |
| flux | djszapi, well, of course to compete with othe same price-range phones they need to be competitive in that aspect as well | 09:54 |
| flux | but not too competitive :P | 09:54 |
| djszapi | again | 09:54 |
| sony123 | Ok no problem I will use next billion from now on :) | 09:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and ah yeah, it's like how if somebody at the DoD browses wikileaks on an unclassified computer, they have to cleanse it as if it contains uber sekrit data | 09:55 |
| djszapi | how the market looks like from this pov here, cheaper phones get more and more features | 09:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | since the data is still considered SECRET | 09:55 |
| djszapi | sony123: thanks, it helps me and others a lot. | 09:55 |
| sony123 | sure, I hope you guys succeed on the next billion front | 09:56 |
| djszapi | well, I do not comment on the security aspect | 09:58 |
| djszapi | it must be a bit degrading after Harmattan but oh well | 09:58 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | it seems like the new font throws off the scaling/alignment/something on lpsmagic | 10:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it just doesn't look as smooth as before | 10:02 |
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| * djszapiN9 wonders if it is worth it at all to take the qwidget related qt certificate | 10:05 | |
| djszapiN9 | does not hurt though | 10:06 |
| djszapiN9 | itsnotabigtruck, i honestly wonder why you put that into tmo instead of a community wikipage... | 10:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 10:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, there's the meego wiki and the maemo wiki, and the latter doesn't have much harmattan stuff, and the former hasn't really been updated since the early n950 days | 10:08 |
| djszapiN9 | huh ? | 10:10 |
| djszapiN9 | i edit it almost every single week | 10:10 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | looking at the recent changes on the meego wiki it's nothing but OBS Light stuff | 10:12 |
| djszapi | community wikis exist for a reason | 10:13 |
| djszapi | please use those | 10:13 |
| djszapi | the N950 landing page is the well known shelter | 10:13 |
| djszapi | I use it every single day as a contents navigation | 10:13 |
| djszapi | you can put a link in there. | 10:13 |
| djszapi | though I suggested to call it Harmattan from the beginning, not N950_landing page... | 10:14 |
| djszapi | http://wiki.meego.com/Harmattan would sound more natural in my opinion. | 10:15 |
| djszapi | I could set up a link from there, but I am used to the N950_landing stuff by now. :) | 10:17 |
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| tehdely | i think "meltemi" will be interesting. thing to keep in mind is that high-end smartphones are turning into full-blown portable computers. quad-core CPUs, dual GPUs, dockability, stuff like "Ubuntu | 10:19 |
| tehdely | on Android", etc. | 10:19 |
| tehdely | feature-phones will be where smart phones are now, by the time "meltemi" is live | 10:20 |
| tehdely | stuff like what you find in the N9 will be found in the feature phones of tomorrow | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: make djszapi happy and call it "unnamed future project" or something | 10:20 |
| tehdely | the cat's out of the bag on the name, it's even on wikipedia | 10:20 |
| tehdely | but ok | 10:20 |
| djszapi | it is not about "djszapi" | 10:20 |
| djszapi | you missed the point | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah but it's like the military where something is still classified even if it gets leaked | 10:20 |
| djszapi | 1) This channel is not about NDA | 10:20 |
| djszapi | see the topic | 10:21 |
| djszapi | 2) I think I asked kindly to help others with communication. | 10:21 |
| tehdely | sry | 10:21 |
| djszapi | tehdely: not your fault | 10:21 |
| tehdely | i will call it NBOS for Next Billion OS | 10:21 |
| djszapi | itsnotabigtruck was a bit harsh now imo | 10:21 |
| djszapi | I call it "next-billion" :) | 10:21 |
| tehdely | ok | 10:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | eh, but that doesn't roll off the tongue very well :p | 10:22 |
| tehdely | anyhow | 10:22 |
| djszapi | tehdely: and I agree with you | 10:22 |
| djszapi | that is how I see, too. | 10:22 |
| tehdely | i would not mind a durable, 3rd-world-ready feature phone, running linux, with comparable innards to today's mid-range smartphones | 10:22 |
| djszapi | it has been a sad daily feeling there is no proper successor for this awesome OS here :/ | 10:23 |
| tehdely | i don't really care if there is or isn't TBQH | 10:23 |
| djszapi | handset and qt world,for sure. | 10:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: yeah...the current "dumbphone" systems are pretty unsatisfying | 10:23 |
| tehdely | i got my N9 just yesterday | 10:24 |
| tehdely | long after its death sentence | 10:24 |
| tehdely | yet it feels very alive to me | 10:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | unnamedfuturephone could be a nice intermediate step | 10:24 |
| tehdely | and i am going to tinker with it for years | 10:24 |
| tehdely | i think Nokia made the right move going with Windows Phone, too | 10:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | between too much phone, and not enough phone | 10:24 |
| djszapi | tehdely: yes, it is gonna remain here especially without a proper successor. | 10:24 |
| tehdely | Microsoft has crazy resources to throw at Windows Phone. they reinvented the phone UI. they lined up tons of developers to release apps, even without much of a market for them | 10:25 |
| djszapi | most importantly they /have/ testers ! | 10:25 |
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| tehdely | MeeGo could be called MeToo, UI-wise. the Swipe stuff is pretty innovative but otherwise it's just another icons-and-widgets smartphone OS | 10:25 |
| tehdely | everything rips off iOS basically. | 10:26 |
| tehdely | the advantage of MeeGo is that you can actually tinker with it :) | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it doesn't really feel like ios at all though | 10:26 |
| tehdely | i _own_ my phone | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in fact besides the home screen it doesn't really look like ios at all | 10:26 |
| tehdely | Windows Phone is probably the most un-tinkerable smartphone OS out there | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it's not like apple owns the concept of a grid of icons | 10:26 |
| tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: it's still buttons and sliders and icons and widgets | 10:26 |
| tehdely | WP is the only OS that departs from those UI metaphors | 10:27 |
| tehdely | it feels genuinely New | 10:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it still has all those too, they're just less prominent | 10:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i have a zune hd, which has a pretty similar ui which is quite awesome, so i know wp7 must be pretty slick | 10:27 |
| tehdely | i played with Mango last year, it's pretty righteous | 10:28 |
| tehdely | but i will stick with my beautiful N9 | 10:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they really crippled it to the maximum | 10:28 |
| tehdely | ^^^ and therein lies the rub | 10:28 |
| djszapi | ok, I am gone, have fun guys :) | 10:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | later djszapi | 10:28 |
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| tehdely | i read today that Nokia has sold more N9s than Lumias | 10:28 |
| tehdely | not surprising | 10:28 |
| tehdely | Nokia's smartphone customers, at least the ones that are left, are all fanboys :) | 10:28 |
| tehdely | myself included | 10:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 10:28 |
| tehdely | we all know what _we_ wanted Nokia to do and are voting with our dollars and euros :P | 10:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that and the lumia is one of many winphones | 10:29 |
| tehdely | but the whole WP push is about getting all the customers that Nokia hasn't been able to reach | 10:29 |
| tehdely | or used to reach, and lost | 10:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it's not significantly different in any way but industrial design | 10:29 |
| tehdely | Nokia is completely irrelevant in the US. WP will change that | 10:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the people who want WP7, many of them already bought WP7 phones | 10:29 |
| tehdely | nah | 10:29 |
| tehdely | i think most of the peoplw who want WP7 don't even know they want it yet | 10:29 |
| tehdely | they haven't been exposed to it | 10:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you want an N9, the only choice is to buy an N9 | 10:29 |
| tehdely | none fo the carriers are pushing it | 10:29 |
| tehdely | none of the other OEMs are really highlighting their windows phone | 10:30 |
| tehdely | whereas Nokia is balls-deep in it | 10:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | right, and lumia does ship with the nokia maps app | 10:30 |
| tehdely | lumia ships with a whole bunch of Nokia-exclusive stuff | 10:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no other phone has a navigation solution | 10:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *wp7 phone that is | 10:30 |
| tehdely | MS and Nokia really need each other on this one. it's a good "synergy" | 10:30 |
| tehdely | i don't think Elop is some trojan horse out to wreck the company | 10:30 |
| tehdely | even if he's not taking it in the direction we dreamed... | 10:30 |
| tehdely | we still have our phone | 10:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they pulled the plug on harmattan /after/ investing so much into it | 10:31 |
| tehdely | not every pivot is pretty | 10:31 |
| tehdely | look how much they invested in it and how rushed it still ended up being, and how little app support there was at launch | 10:31 |
| tehdely | you have to be a frickin' giant to launch a new mobile platform now | 10:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this is like saying "we don't like this train route anymore, we're going to make another one" | 10:32 |
| tehdely | and microsoft has just insane amounts of cash to pour into it | 10:32 |
| tehdely | they will keep pouring cash into WP until it is successful | 10:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so they lift up the train tracks | 10:32 |
| tehdely | they have no reason to stop | 10:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and the train flies off and crashes | 10:32 |
| tehdely | microsoft will accept crushing losses on something for 10 years if they think it'll eventually be a success | 10:32 |
| tehdely | see: XBox | 10:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | counterpoint: zune | 10:33 |
| tehdely | i think if/when WP is successful | 10:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and a zillion ms software projects | 10:33 |
| tehdely | you will see that Zune actually succeeded after all ;) | 10:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | where they do it for 2 years then abort | 10:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | xbox is more or less an exception | 10:33 |
| * gri tried microsoft flight yesterday - crap :P | 10:33 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | gri: is that a sequel to fsx or something | 10:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, doesn't look like it | 10:34 |
| gri | itsnotabigtruck: Not really ... they removed the word "simulator" and made it more like a game | 10:34 |
| gri | with trophys and such things .. | 10:34 |
| tehdely | TSA probably demanded it | 10:35 |
| tehdely | wouldn't want anyone getting their "flight school" now would we | 10:35 |
| gri | and in-game buying: you have two crap planes and other cost money | 10:35 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | so it's "free to play" | 10:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lovely | 10:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | everybody's saying "look at zynga, let's do what they did" | 10:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's poisoning gaming | 10:36 |
| gri | paying for pieces in games is shit :) | 10:36 |
| tehdely | zynga /sb end | 10:38 |
| tehdely | irssi fail | 10:38 |
| * tehdely duck | 10:39 | |
| tehdely | q | 10:43 |
| tehdely | ok that is enough mistypes | 10:45 |
| tehdely | i think it means i should go to bed! | 10:45 |
| gri | itsnotabigtruck: and the best thing is like in other ms flight games: if you hit the ground a text appears "you crashed" but there is no visual damage to the plane :( | 10:45 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 10:49 |
| tehdely | how do i get to the quick launch bar | 10:51 |
| tehdely | i read mention of it but i see no such thing | 10:51 |
| tehdely | ooh i see | 10:51 |
| tehdely | just pull up a little | 10:51 |
| tehdely | not very discoverable | 10:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yup | 10:51 |
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| * tehdely currently installing half the stuff available under "Utilities" in the ovi store | 10:58 | |
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| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 11:00 |
| Khertan | Hi , | 11:02 |
| Khertan | Someone know if there is a way to know the current status of the vkb ? open or closed ? | 11:02 |
| tehdely | weird | 11:02 |
| tehdely | i could swear the display just got darker | 11:02 |
| tehdely | while i was installing some app | 11:02 |
| tehdely | ... | 11:02 |
| Khertan | because, swype vkb can't be closed | 11:02 |
| tehdely | i think something triggered the light sensor | 11:04 |
| tehdely | and won't untrigger it | 11:04 |
| tehdely | ah i see | 11:11 |
| tehdely | if my hand shadows the front-facing camera | 11:11 |
| tehdely | it gets darker | 11:11 |
| tehdely | i think i read someone else complaining about that... | 11:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: yeah, it was the ALS | 11:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (*not* amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, ambient light sensor) | 11:13 |
| Shadikka | I find it weirdly amusing that you had to explicitly say that. | 11:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 11:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, TMO just went down again, argh | 11:17 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | http://newsroom.accenture.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=5297 | 11:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, interesting | 11:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nokia unloaded its symbian development operation to contractors a few months ago | 11:20 |
| tehdely | interestingly, they've finally been able to ship Symbian releases on time | 11:23 |
| tehdely | Anna was the last one that was horrifically delayed | 11:23 |
| tehdely | along with the usual "let's give it to the Americans two months later than everyone else" | 11:23 |
| tehdely | then Belle rolls out worldwide on the same day | 11:23 |
| tehdely | that was a nice improvement :) | 11:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm | 11:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | did the N950 ship in the packaging shown in this post http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/22/nokia-n950-pictures-a-gallerys-worth-of-meego-to-tell-the-stor/ | 11:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which i guess was a marketing dept. leak | 11:24 |
| gri | it came in that box | 11:25 |
| tehdely | i have to say, the pentile display bugs me a lil bit | 11:29 |
| tehdely | maybe my eyes are just picky | 11:29 |
| tehdely | but i can always see the red 'bleed' on everything | 11:29 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | i only notice it on the lp screen | 11:32 |
| tehdely | that is where i'm noticing it the most | 11:36 |
| tehdely | any recommendations on a good alarm clock app btw | 11:37 |
| tehdely | it doesn't look like i can define arbitrary profiles | 11:37 |
| tehdely | or can i? | 11:37 |
| tehdely | OK SLEEP | 11:38 |
| tehdely | this phone is ruining my life lol | 11:38 |
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| jreznik | yupeee! /me was playing with jamendo api pre-pr 1.2 and qt mobility was so buggy, it was hardly usable - today I tried the first try, no changes at all and it works very well... one of the last missing app, stay tuned :) | 12:28 |
| djszapi | jreznik: nifty :) | 12:28 |
| Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: yep what that package of n950, why ? | 12:29 |
| jreznik | how to put it to store - ask them to restrict it for pr 1.2, just comment it, that pr 1.2 is recommended or runtime check in app? | 12:29 |
| Khertan | jreznik: lucky you are ... pr1.2 didn't bring improvment on qml text, and vkb behavior | 12:30 |
| djszapi | jreznik: I would personally support all firmwares even without Ovi. | 12:30 |
| djszapi | jreznik: that is, for instance, one reason I just copy/paste the qt-components elements into my project from my master, if it achieves better. | 12:31 |
| admiral0__ | tmo is down for you? | 12:31 |
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| djszapi | from dev pov, it is a nightmare, but I develop the app for users after all :) | 12:31 |
| djszapi | admiral0: someone reported that already.. | 12:31 |
| admiral0 | djszapi: thanks for fighting for sdk repo :) | 12:31 |
| djszapi | I am not fighting... | 12:31 |
| djszapi | but yw :) | 12:32 |
| Khertan | is there a way to know if vkb is open or not ? in qml ? | 12:32 |
| djszapi | Khertan: why do you need that ? | 12:33 |
| Khertan | djszapi: because it didn't close | 12:33 |
| Khertan | swype vkb can't be close with a gesture | 12:34 |
| Khertan | so i need a way to close it | 12:34 |
| Khertan | but didn't wan't to waste space with a button which is useless when keyboard is open | 12:34 |
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| djszapi | you can always have "activeFocusChanged". | 12:34 |
| djszapi | but this will go wrong anyway... | 12:35 |
| Khertan | djszapi: but i didn't want to play with activeFocusChanged as its fucked the hardware keyboard | 12:35 |
| Khertan | ;) | 12:35 |
| Khertan | djszapi: ah ... oh did you do so ? | 12:35 |
| djszapi | at least, you will also have to check the GConf key to check whether Swype is the currently active IM | 12:35 |
| Khertan | djszapi: lost half of the screen when no need of keyboard ? having a edit / visualize mode ? | 12:36 |
| Khertan | djszapi: if you have better idea | 12:36 |
| Khertan | i ll try them | 12:36 |
| Khertan | djszapi: example : https://twitter.com/#!/khertan/status/175117211399233536/photo/1 | 12:37 |
| jreznik | djszapi: the problem is - it's somewhere in qt multimedia, maybe even gstreamer... I don't want to distribute half of the system for just a few lines of QML :) | 12:38 |
| djszapi | obviously, but can you find a simpler workaround ? | 12:38 |
| djszapi | Khertan: Not really. You only need some UI area that does not take focus, then touching there will hide VKB. Hence *that* tweet is wrong. | 12:39 |
| Khertan | djszapi: wrong ? | 12:39 |
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| Khertan | the rectangle in the top didn't take focus | 12:40 |
| Khertan | but touching them didn't hide the vkb | 12:40 |
| Khertan | it s a pretty strange ux idea anyway | 12:40 |
| djszapi | On a side note: QML2 has access to QInputMethod with Qt5. | 12:41 |
| Khertan | djszapi: and then, if you want to scroll the text ... virtual keyboard open up again | 12:41 |
| Khertan | djszapi: yeah ... and QWidget was working on Fremantle ... | 12:42 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:42 |
| Khertan | but we are on harmattan ... not a solution as both aren't availble | 12:42 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:42 |
| djszapi | that is why I said "side not" ? | 12:42 |
| djszapi | for useful information in the future ? | 12:43 |
| Khertan | djszapi: ? qt on future device ? | 12:43 |
| jonni | Khertan: I have vkb detection code somewhere on corner of me work hdd, but Im on holidays this week, so cannot help you before monday.... | 12:43 |
| Khertan | :) | 12:43 |
| djszapi | Khertan: Also what you said above should not happen at all; as in panning does not assign focus. | 12:43 |
| djszapi | That is a bug in the QML code then or you are not using Qt Components at all (big mistake). I cannot help people who want to fuck themselves. :) | 12:44 |
| Khertan | jonni: even if i found a work arround i ll be interested to see it monday :) | 12:44 |
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| Khertan | djszapi: i use TextEdit | 12:44 |
| Khertan | djszapi: as i ve other problem with TextArea | 12:45 |
| Khertan | which didn't want to display large text or scroll them | 12:45 |
| Khertan | it s funny that in 2012 with a framework which can do animation, hw accelerated transition, it s a such pain to made a simple text area to edit a 100 line text file ... | 12:46 |
| jonni | last year I was playing with harmattan vkb detecion when I was coding qtwebkit to autoscroll to visible area when vkb opened, so input cursor didnt go under the vkb... | 12:46 |
| djszapi | Text input in plain QML is pretty obiously borken, in Qt 4.x. That is why there are Qt components. | 12:46 |
| Khertan | djszapi: it s borked in QtComponent too | 12:46 |
| djszapi | if you cannot use Qt Components, you're on your own, and I cannot help there. | 12:46 |
| Khertan | do a qt component TextArea ... write line ... it didn't follow the cursor and you can't see what you type | 12:47 |
| Khertan | djszapi: I can USE IT IF THEY WORK ... | 12:47 |
| djszapi | not as bad/in a different way; and in Qt Components, focus-out to close VKB works (by default, QML uses sticky focus) | 12:47 |
| djszapi | TextArea inside Flickable should work, should it not ... | 12:48 |
| Khertan | djszapi: focus out work ... yeah ... but not the rest | 12:48 |
| Khertan | djszapi: DID YOU EVER USE IT ? | 12:48 |
| djszapi | ok you lost me. | 12:48 |
| djszapi | that is not true, you can see what you type. I can. It also does the visibility thingy, if you use a Page component. Obviously, yes, I did ;-) | 12:49 |
| Khertan | maybe this is the reason ... there is none text editor availble for that plateform | 12:49 |
| Khertan | djszapi: show me a exemple so please | 12:50 |
| djszapi | Qt Components widget gallery might be a good place for you to start. | 12:50 |
| djszapi | plateform is a quite funny word here in this context though ;) | 12:50 |
| Khertan | djszapi: yep | 12:50 |
| Khertan | djszapi: i ll try to write a simple example to demo you the problem | 12:52 |
| Khertan | (s) | 12:52 |
| djszapi | some people might say in this situation: "proper bug report or GTFO" | 12:54 |
| Khertan | haha... and some might say ... "proper place to report ... GFTP" | 12:56 |
| Khertan | djszapi: take the default Component Gallery | 13:01 |
| Khertan | open the page TextInput | 13:01 |
| Khertan | add 20 or more line to the multilinetextarea | 13:02 |
| Khertan | while in portrait with the vkb | 13:02 |
| Khertan | rotate it ... | 13:02 |
| Khertan | open the hw keyboard | 13:02 |
| Khertan | and see the result | 13:02 |
| djszapi | lol yeah, HWKB on N9, nice trick. fix: close VKB before rotating (there is a sync bug. imo it is fixed in nemo). | 13:06 |
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| Khertan | djszapi: same happen with a bt keyboard | 13:19 |
| Khertan | :) | 13:19 |
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| djszapi | You do not rotate your N9 very often if you use BT keyboard. BT keyboard is simply not a main use case. | 13:21 |
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| Arkenoi | rotations behaves very strangely now.. there is no "global" rotation, every app does it separately -- and it happens often that desktop did rotate but apps did not and vice versa | 13:51 |
| Arkenoi | i have impression it worked better with pr1.1 and 1.0 but i am not sure | 13:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer51 | well, they had no central instance to decide about rotation in a meaningful reasonable way, in fremantle. I don't think they invented sth in HARM | 13:53 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | well, they had no central instance to decide about rotation in a meaningful reasonable way, in fremantle. I don't think they invented sth in HARM | 13:54 |
| jonni | Arkenoi: if you mean desktop==grid it has never rotated. | 13:54 |
| jonni | atleast if you havent enabled some 3rd party apps | 13:54 |
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| ZogG_N9 | sup | 13:55 |
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| ZogG_N9 | qtsdk should update Madde to latest sysroot right? | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | in CSSU we are about to fix it for good | 13:56 |
| jonni | ZogG_N9: nope, qtsdk is always pr1.0 | 13:56 |
| Arkenoi | iirc there was a tool to tune the sensitivity? it would also be useful to lock to landscape when hw kbd is out (iirc it worked that way in frematle) | 13:56 |
| Arkenoi | when you open it, angle is likely to be insufficient to cause rotation | 13:57 |
| jonni | (as all apps are required to work in pr1.0, thus there havent been any updates) | 13:57 |
| ZogG_N9 | jonni how can i make it pr1.2? | 13:57 |
| jonni | ZogG_N9: you cant | 13:58 |
| ZogG_N9 | jonni, than how can i use something added in pr1.2? | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | and you don'twanna | 13:58 |
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| jonni | ZogG_N9: you cant since ovi store requires that you only use pr1.0 api's | 13:59 |
| gabriel9 | video calls now working on gtalk | 13:59 |
| gabriel9 | some dude say they work on 3g | 13:59 |
| Arkenoi | gabriel9, wow. still no video in 3g and skupe? | 13:59 |
| Arkenoi | skype even | 13:59 |
| Arkenoi | hmm | 13:59 |
| gabriel9 | skype is not working | 13:59 |
| Arkenoi | there is no "video call" button | 14:00 |
| jonni | most likely if you need pr1.2 then you need to use scratchbox, although I havent checked if public sb has 1.2 rootstrap | 14:00 |
| ZogG_N9 | jonni, idiotic, so i need to re-write something existened already? =) | 14:00 |
| ZogG_N9 | ovi is a mess | 14:01 |
| jonni | ZogG_N9: yep its a feature in ovi store that it doesnt know how to handle different pr releases, if there would be support to enter works in pr such and such, then it would be much better, but there is no support | 14:01 |
| ZogG_N9 | btw what about apps4meego? | 14:01 |
| Arkenoi | merge bug sucks big time. and no idea if it is going to be fixed *ever* :-(, | 14:02 |
| gabriel9 | you need to download app from store | 14:02 |
| ZogG_N9 | jonni, yeah and download limit should be for imeis and not how many times | 14:03 |
| gabriel9 | http://mynokiablog.com/2012/03/01/n9apps-gtalk-video-call-by-nokia/ | 14:03 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | jonni: brilliant :-/ | 14:03 |
| gabriel9 | i hate that blog | 14:03 |
| djszapi | jonni: I think Ovi is just user centric. | 14:03 |
| djszapi | and they would not like to differentiate PR1.0 and PR1.X users, which is a good thing imo. | 14:04 |
| ZogG_N9 | is it me or pr1.2 breaks push notifications for apps? i mean not from nokia (xmms buddy) | 14:04 |
| djszapi | it is not a "drawback" in my opinion. | 14:04 |
| djszapi | I know from experience, if I was allowed to mark an application working on PR1.X, I would probably never bother to bring that application to others. | 14:05 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, they shouldnt as client should just tell, like it does for what country contect is avilable | 14:05 |
| djszapi | what do you mean ? Could you please rephrase it ? | 14:05 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, but if new things added and you cant even use them as developer | 14:06 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | indeed | 14:06 |
| ZogG_N9 | to reinvent the wheel all the time | 14:06 |
| jonni | ZogG_N9: depends what you mean by push notifications, if you mean those info bubbles that come to top of the screen, they still work... | 14:06 |
| ZogG_N9 | jonni, for stock apps | 14:06 |
| djszapi | ZogG_N9: I am trying to understand what you have just said, but it does not parse here. | 14:06 |
| djszapi | so please rephrase it :) | 14:06 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, when u use client on phone, it should provide the info | 14:07 |
| djszapi | well, that is an entirely distinct approach. | 14:07 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | maemo repo managed to build for lowest possible PR and offer for all PR rev that the pkg works with. OVI is too stupid for that | 14:07 |
| ZogG_N9 | it shows only relevant apps | 14:07 |
| djszapi | it would mean, they allow developers to always work only with the latest image. | 14:07 |
| djszapi | which is not nice for many reasons | 14:08 |
| djszapi | I know some people not upgrading, if they got a regression for their loved feature. | 14:08 |
| jonni | ZogG_N9: well my BabyLock uses notifications and it still works in pr1.2 | 14:08 |
| djszapi | try to provide feedback to ovi app authors | 14:08 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, there should be obiviously back dependensy | 14:08 |
| djszapi | most of them did not care about the user reports. | 14:08 |
| djszapi | at least from what I saw. | 14:08 |
| djszapi | it would not be any different with "please get it work on PR1.X". | 14:09 |
| ZogG_N9 | jonni, i saw few guys had the same problem - bug than? | 14:09 |
| djszapi | would probably even ignored more because it does not take effect on everybody. | 14:09 |
| jonni | ZogG_N9: no idea, bug or using it wrong. | 14:09 |
| djszapi | I do not love Ovi that much, but this is a very good principle in my personal taste. | 14:10 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, there is only one phone on meego so 1 version | 14:10 |
| djszapi | it does not parse here. | 14:11 |
| ZogG_N9 | as well android and ios managed that | 14:11 |
| djszapi | what do you mean ? | 14:11 |
| djszapi | managed what ? | 14:11 |
| ZogG_N9 | versions | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | *sigh* | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer51 | bye | 14:11 |
| djszapi | managed what about versions ? | 14:11 |
| ZogG_N9 | btw my app would depend on oauth that is present only in 1.2 | 14:12 |
| djszapi | btw ? You do not try to reply to the question ? :) | 14:12 |
| djszapi | anyway, this is certainly a fundamental principle I miss out of apps4meego :( | 14:12 |
| ZogG_N9 | from phone 1st of all | 14:13 |
| ZogG_N9 | 2nd android market knows if app works on certain versions and phone or tablet | 14:13 |
| djszapi | as I said, it is a broken stance in my opinion | 14:14 |
| ZogG_N9 | thats why all you need dependencies | 14:14 |
| djszapi | nobody is gonna push developers to get it work for others. | 14:14 |
| djszapi | causing a lot of frustration from user pov. | 14:14 |
| djszapi | and since many app store apps are "dead-on-arrival" | 14:14 |
| djszapi | there might be apps doing the same to just get it work on a certain PR version. | 14:14 |
| ZogG_N9 | there are pkgs in ovi that work only for certain prs | 14:15 |
| djszapi | and that is not really uncool. | 14:15 |
| djszapi | that is really uncool* | 14:15 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, who cares | 14:15 |
| djszapi | who cares about doing the same thousand ways ? | 14:15 |
| djszapi | well, I personally do. | 14:15 |
| ZogG_N9 | there are already | 14:15 |
| ZogG_N9 | 20 tourchlights and 1000 just image apps | 14:16 |
| djszapi | having a broken stuff is hardly a good argument for getting it more broken. | 14:16 |
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| ZogG_N9 | thats why rating is important | 14:16 |
| karbas_ | n9 got bricked. ota-upgrade failed and used nsu to update and it failed | 14:16 |
| karbas_ | any ideas how to fix it? :) | 14:17 |
| djszapi | also, different packages do not just make any sense i ncertain cases. | 14:17 |
| djszapi | karbas_: failed in what sense ? | 14:17 |
| djszapi | because distinct packages are not reasonable if you need to import a qt-components element for instance | 14:17 |
| karbas_ | djszapi, it hanged in 91% | 14:17 |
| Arkenoi | what is really uncool is thousands of bookmarks claiming to be "apps" | 14:17 |
| djszapi | if you need to do it anyway, why not just do it once and for all versions ? | 14:17 |
| Arkenoi | and videos and other crap | 14:17 |
| djszapi | instead of having X separate packages ? | 14:17 |
| Arkenoi | and no way to filter it out | 14:17 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: agreed. | 14:17 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, again, dont see problem in ios or android | 14:18 |
| ZogG_N9 | their markets doing better anyway | 14:18 |
| djszapi | I tend to disagree | 14:18 |
| djszapi | I need to pay 25 EUR for getting into the android market | 14:18 |
| djszapi | that is the entry level | 14:18 |
| ZogG_N9 | what? | 14:18 |
| djszapi | which is rather cumbersome, if my attention (of course btw) to just make free apps. | 14:18 |
| RST38h | and that is obviously too expensive, isn't it? | 14:18 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, i am afraid it is intentional by Nokia to create false impression "there is a lot of stuff in Ovi store" while actually there was not. But.. now there is _really_ a lot of stuff, so why keeping crap? | 14:18 |
| RST38h | you do know that nokia also charges for entry into Ovi ($1 when I entered)? | 14:19 |
| ZogG_N9 | and i cant disturb my app coz it would work on pr1.2 only | 14:19 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: the problem is that behind it, for instance, many subcontractors were paid for making applications, and getting paid according to the number of applications. | 14:19 |
| ZogG_N9 | would say i made video calls | 14:19 |
| RST38h | dare you also aware that Ovi Store tends to pay publishers whenever it considers convinient, like once 3-4 months or so? | 14:19 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: and they messed up the store this way. | 14:19 |
| ZogG_N9 | but u cant get it as it ovi policy with pr1.0 | 14:19 |
| djszapi | RST38h: no | 14:19 |
| djszapi | I entered OVi for free | 14:20 |
| djszapi | anybody can do that | 14:20 |
| RST38h | ok, now you know | 14:20 |
| ZogG_N9 | djszapi, 1euro | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Apple's AppStore is $99 + your rectal virginity | 14:20 |
| ZogG_N9 | i paid | 14:20 |
| djszapi | ZogG_N9: it was for free to me | 14:20 |
| RST38h | And developers still flock there like crazy | 14:20 |
| djszapi | you are getting funny with knowing better how I did :) | 14:20 |
| jreznik | djszapi: yeah, many people were doing lot of easy stuff for nokia :) I'm not proud of it but... | 14:21 |
| ZogG_N9 | you are not all devs | 14:21 |
| djszapi | and 1 EUR >< 25 EUR even in simple cases. | 14:21 |
| djszapi | jreznik: we discussed that with the Qt folks at the meetup, this really happened :( | 14:21 |
| djszapi | make X apps into OVI, and you get Y | 14:21 |
| ZogG_N9 | but profits from android app are higher =) and support and how it works =) | 14:21 |
| RST38h | neither eur1 nor eur25 makes much of a difference | 14:21 |
| RST38h | but Ovi Store not paying any money for 4 monnths does | 14:22 |
| djszapi | RST38h: it does if I can send it to my starving mum instead ! | 14:22 |
| djszapi | (not joking, that is real) | 14:22 |
| RST38h | djszapi: it will buy your starving mum at most 2 days | 14:22 |
| djszapi | the days do not matter. | 14:22 |
| RST38h | not sure if it makes that much of a difference, although you surely know better | 14:22 |
| djszapi | what matters I can send it to her instead of an app store where my apps are for free | 14:22 |
| jreznik | djszapi: yeah, I know, I was part of it - usually - we need an app by Friday, wait, it's Thursday evening! but actually one is quite useful :) and another completely useless has thousands downloads (and symbian version hundred thousand downloads) | 14:23 |
| jreznik | so users probably wants this kind of "funny" apps | 14:23 |
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| djszapi | jreznik: :) | 14:23 |
| jreznik | what I hate more are are that RSS apps - should be in own category and then I have nothing against it | 14:24 |
| RST38h | then how will Ovi claim that it is getting lots of apps? | 14:24 |
| djszapi | I really love how KDE/Qt are compatible that much | 14:24 |
| djszapi | inside major versions... | 14:25 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, can you call me video via gtalk? want to test it | 14:25 |
| jreznik | RST38h: it's more a question of correct categorization | 14:25 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: call you with what? | 14:25 |
| * jreznik would like to try it too :) | 14:25 | |
| djszapi | jreznik: I can try to call you :) | 14:25 |
| djszapi | with the "us" address, I believe. | 14:26 |
| Arkenoi | gtalk video. there is app in store that enables video calls, just installed it and want to see if it actually works | 14:26 |
| Appiah | wohoo firmware update | 14:26 |
| ZogG_N9 | need to go | 14:26 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: what is the app name, if I may ask ? | 14:26 |
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| Arkenoi | Gtalk Video Call | 14:27 |
| RST38h | ok | 14:28 |
| Arkenoi | package is named "video-call-installer" | 14:28 |
| djszapi | there is a review "Abc", and that is all ;-) | 14:28 |
| RST38h | says video is not available at your system | 14:29 |
| RST38h | ok, now opened it | 14:29 |
| RST38h | answer it | 14:29 |
| djszapi | the package turns the device off ? | 14:30 |
| djszapi | * reboot it | 14:30 |
| djszapi | why ? | 14:30 |
| Arkenoi | rst38h, can you see me? | 14:30 |
| RST38h | to flash hacked kernel and start scping your data out, stupid | 14:30 |
| RST38h | don't you know | 14:30 |
| djszapi | sounds like something to report to Ovi. :) | 14:30 |
| RST38h | isn't it the scenario your aegis thingie was supposed to protect us all against? | 14:31 |
| djszapi | not really, no | 14:31 |
| djszapi | the aegis side is prepared for that, though. | 14:31 |
| djszapi | too bad, if the system services guys do not use its power | 14:32 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: Ok, I assume whatever that package does, it does not do vidoe chat | 14:32 |
| djszapi | and ovi needs to catch this thing, but anyway, reporting is being done and hopefully Ovi investigate more. | 14:32 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, i do not get video stream from you, but i see myself in the corner of the screen | 14:32 |
| RST38h | ok, I will try once more. please, log into gtalk | 14:32 |
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| Arkenoi | i am online | 14:34 |
| Arkenoi | tried to call yu back but got no answer | 14:34 |
| RST38h | Sorry do not see you online | 14:34 |
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| djszapi | haha | 14:35 |
| djszapi | "Please note: Nokia N9 v1.2 (or later) software is required to install this package." | 14:35 |
| djszapi | and ovi accepted it ? :) | 14:35 |
| RST38h | And I am using gtalk from the browser | 14:35 |
| djszapi | are they serious about the backward compatibility ? :) | 14:35 |
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| RST38h | Ovi will accept just about anything | 14:35 |
| djszapi | how am I supposed to use this ? | 14:35 |
| RST38h | But may not accept things based on random reasons | 14:36 |
| djszapi | I do not see any helper. | 14:36 |
| djszapi | neither in the description, nor anywhere else. | 14:36 |
| RST38h | like, they refused to accept fMSX because it did not run .nes files | 14:36 |
| Arkenoi | RST38h, haha, must be codec incompatibility as usual. btw if you call pidgin with browser, it just crashes (pidgin) | 14:36 |
| RST38h | took me 2 weeks to persuade them | 14:36 |
| djszapi | no helper ui util either on the applauncher. | 14:36 |
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| jreznik | djszapi: I heard you can ask for the exception - if it's free application, than they allow you to any version you want | 14:40 |
| jreznik | but I was really surprised that they accepted restart | 14:40 |
| djszapi | yep, that is strange. | 14:41 |
| jreznik | ovi guys are... 5-7 business days - one of my symbian app is there three weeks without touching it (but it was for the conference, so I'm going to remove it, just I was curious) | 14:41 |
| djszapi | well, then free app authors can say, they do not give a shit for other pr users :( | 14:41 |
| RST38h | no, 5-7 business days is what it takes them to answer your single email | 14:41 |
| djszapi | jreznik: last time it was 2 days for me. | 14:41 |
| djszapi | and updating the screenshot was few hours | 14:42 |
| djszapi | 4-5 | 14:42 |
| jreznik | RST38h: no reply yet :) | 14:42 |
| RST38h | there is usually 4-6 emails going back and forth before they agree to accept something | 14:42 |
| djszapi | never happened with publishing... | 14:42 |
| RST38h | So, you are looking at weeks, not days | 14:42 |
| RST38h | djszapi: we are all happy for you | 14:42 |
| jreznik | probably someone missed it in the system :) | 14:42 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, it does not need helper ui, there is "video call" button in contacts now | 14:42 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: tried to find it, but I do not see that. | 14:42 |
| jreznik | sometimes you can talk to them and they are pretty fast | 14:42 |
| djszapi | jreznik: yes, I think your case got lost or so. I am certain, it was not intentional. | 14:43 |
| djszapi | unless you wrote a super large app that might take them to test it that long ;) | 14:43 |
| jreznik | anyone wants to try? rezzabuh@gmail.com | 14:43 |
| Arkenoi | djszapi, it appears if remote party is online and claims video capability | 14:43 |
| djszapi | Arkenoi: oh just in that case.. | 14:44 |
| djszapi | jreznik: I would like to | 14:44 |
| djszapi | djszapi@archlinux.us :) | 14:44 |
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| djszapi | jreznik: is it for free ? | 14:45 |
| djszapi | I am getting your call :) | 14:45 |
| djszapi | would not like to get you charged | 14:45 |
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| jreznik | djszapi: it's jabber, it's for free | 14:46 |
| djszapi | let me remove my sim :) | 14:46 |
| jreznik | at least ui works, front camera too :) | 14:47 |
| djszapi | jreznik: try again pls :) | 14:47 |
| Arkenoi | jreznik, tried adding you, got "checking" state and that's all :-( | 14:47 |
| RST38h | Ok, GTalk is broken. Most likely at the Google's side. | 14:48 |
| RST38h | What else is new? | 14:48 |
| djszapi | jreznik: I see you | 14:48 |
| djszapi | jreznik: have you seen anything out of my camera and phone ? | 14:49 |
| jreznik | djszapi: really? | 14:49 |
| jreznik | nothing here | 14:49 |
| djszapi | interesting. | 14:49 |
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| jreznik | Arkenoi: or you can try rezza@jabber.cz | 14:50 |
| Arkenoi | haha, for some reason it turns my image from the camera upside down in portrait mode, no matter if i turn the phone -- it turns it back upside down :-) | 14:50 |
| djszapi | I just accepted the call, and changed the camera to see you. | 14:50 |
| jreznik | try to call me | 14:50 |
| djszapi | sure, if you are talking to me :) | 14:50 |
| djszapi | at least I saw myself in the corner at least. | 14:51 |
| djszapi | and you in the middle :) | 14:51 |
| jreznik | wow, it works | 14:52 |
| djszapi | (Y) | 14:52 |
| Arkenoi | jreznik, works, but your image was very distorted | 14:52 |
| djszapi | jreznik: works with Arkenoi or me ? | 14:52 |
| jreznik | djszapi: I understand it - you have to allow the camera - that's probably the reason I couldn't see you | 14:52 |
| jreznik | djszapi: both | 14:52 |
| djszapi | yes | 14:53 |
| djszapi | I had to tap it too in the beginning to see you. | 14:53 |
| * jreznik still thinks video calls are useless | 14:53 | |
| Appiah | jreznik: +1 | 14:54 |
| djszapi | jreznik: except with a nice HR woman :P | 14:54 |
| djszapi | so what are the limitations of the google talk ? People registered with Europe, or what exactly ? | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: pick up. | 14:55 |
| jreznik | djszapi: I don't see any limitations... | 14:55 |
| jreznik | it's working with both my jabber accounts... so | 14:56 |
| Arkenoi | there is yet another reason for video calls -- when you need a person to drink with and there is none around | 14:56 |
| djszapi | cool | 14:56 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: use a freaking mirror. | 14:56 |
| djszapi | hahaha | 14:56 |
| djszapi | I will not use it either, I believe. | 14:57 |
| djszapi | but it is still cool to see, it works. | 14:57 |
| djszapi | I wonder how long the battery can take it. | 14:57 |
| djszapi | I have never tried to make long videos with N9 | 14:57 |
| djszapi | especially since it is even somewhat data over the internet | 14:58 |
| djszapi | heh, the OVI client locks the package manager database, even if it does nothing. | 15:00 |
| Appiah | Arkenoi: lets do that #harmattan-drink | 15:00 |
| jreznik | Appiah: nobody is drinking there :( | 15:05 |
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| RST38h | Arkenoi: BTW, check out this schedule around 16:15: http://tv3.ru/teleprogram.html?dat=03.03.2012 | 15:08 |
| RST38h | Arkenoi: see the date ;) | 15:08 |
| pa | ok, i added a gmail account as MFE account. but how do i push on that account contacts that are on the phone byt not there? | 15:09 |
| pa | but | 15:09 |
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| pa | ah actually it does | 15:12 |
| Appiah | this n9 update takes a long time.. | 15:13 |
| Appiah | think it said 40min? | 15:13 |
| djszapi | that is normal | 15:14 |
| djszapi | unfortunately, it is that slow for many people. | 15:14 |
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| Arkenoi | RST38h, nice! | 15:15 |
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| Appiah | umm did the font change? | 15:30 |
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| djszapi | ohh the fedex box was about Google Code In stuff | 15:42 |
| djszapi | t-shirt for the mentors :P | 15:42 |
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| djszapiN9 | is it possible to just delete certain entries, without showing, on the notification screen ? | 16:07 |
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| ninnnu | I have an opposite question: How do I create notifications that would at least show up briefly on the top of the screen, possibly end up to notification screen? Docs mostly tell about Notification API, but I don't think that's what I'm looking for. | 16:12 |
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| djszapiN9 | ninnnu, infobanner component ? | 16:16 |
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| ninnnu | I'll look at that. Thanks | 16:18 |
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| djszapiN9 | yw :) | 16:19 |
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| Jare | hmm, video and audio is sent as an rtp payload in xmpp/jingle (gtalk), isn't it? | 16:40 |
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| Jare | ..so sip videocalls might be easy to enable, if telepathy-sofiasip supports them | 17:01 |
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| pa | so N9 cant sync sms via SyncML? | 17:09 |
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| pa | like with services such as Memotoo | 17:10 |
| pa | no one knows? | 17:14 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: just that it looks cool | 17:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | TMO is still down?! | 17:19 |
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| Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: ? | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Khertan: the box | 17:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the N9 box is fairly uninspired | 17:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jare: have you tried to make one yet? | 17:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently this video call enabler just flips some settings on telepathy/call-ui | 17:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and none of them specifically related to gtalk | 17:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so this "gtalk video call enabler" should work with any suitable telepathy backend | 17:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure why they didn't just roll this into the firmware... | 17:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it would also be nice to have it in an APT repo at least so it could be depended on | 17:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. my-uber-awesome-connection-manager Recommends: video-call-enabler | 17:34 |
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| Khertan | itsnotabigtruck: ah yes there is even a qml code that when you run it display a nice ui to say that you got your precious on twitter :) | 17:43 |
| pa | actually, can i have multiple mail for exchange accounts from which import contacts? | 17:45 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | bloody TMO, why can't you be up | 17:48 |
| pa | bloody N9, supporting contacts only from 1 MFE account | 17:49 |
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| pa | or is it possible in PR1.2? | 17:52 |
| pa | could someone try? if you have already one MfE account, can you try to add a second one, and see if you have the switch to sync contacts from that one? | 17:52 |
| pa | otherwise i will file a bug | 17:52 |
| tehdely | pa: i'm on PR1.2 | 17:52 |
| tehdely | and i have 3 MfE accounts | 17:52 |
| tehdely | only one has the option to sync contacts | 17:52 |
| tehdely | it's obviously deliberate. | 17:52 |
| pa | that sucks.. no one has filed a bug report yet? | 17:52 |
| pa | but it sucks.. | 17:53 |
| tehdely | how would you define the syncing behavior if you synced with more than one exchange server? | 17:53 |
| tehdely | i consider that sort of an edge case | 17:53 |
| tehdely | and you still have access to the GAL | 17:53 |
| pa | well, one way is that if you add a contact on the phone, it is added to all the MfE accounts | 17:54 |
| pa | another option is that you get prompted to which account you add it | 17:54 |
| tehdely | ok but what about syncing contacts down | 17:54 |
| tehdely | let's say you have your work and your home MfE accounts | 17:54 |
| Khertan | you choose to sync ... it s sync ... | 17:54 |
| tehdely | you enable contacts sync on both | 17:54 |
| tehdely | you get the contacst from both? | 17:54 |
| pa | yes | 17:54 |
| Khertan | asking user where to ... how to everytime ... it s borring | 17:54 |
| tehdely | do the contacts stay separate? | 17:54 |
| tehdely | or do the contacts synced down from one | 17:54 |
| pa | no they merge | 17:54 |
| tehdely | get synced up to the other | 17:54 |
| tehdely | so eventually both mfE accounts have the same contacts | 17:55 |
| pa | ah | 17:55 |
| tehdely | there's only one address book | 17:55 |
| pa | well you shouldnt sync it back | 17:55 |
| tehdely | so then the software will have to keep track of which contacts came from where | 17:55 |
| pa | i mean, each contact should have its provenance | 17:55 |
| pa | well.. it's doable isnt it? | 17:55 |
| tehdely | can you see why they didn't implement this feature : | 17:55 |
| pa | android supports such things | 17:55 |
| tehdely | let us not mention that other OS | 17:56 |
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| tehdely | do you know what else android did? THE HOLOCAUST | 17:56 |
| pa | well, ok, but it's definitely something doable | 17:56 |
| tehdely | yes that's right | 17:56 |
| tehdely | i hold incontrovertible proof | 17:56 |
| pa | it's not a sci-fi request | 17:56 |
| tehdely | it's doable but it's a pain in the ass. and what you're asking for is an edge case | 17:56 |
| tehdely | barring implementing it yourself, i don't imagine Nokia's going to add that feature | 17:56 |
| pa | edge case? | 17:56 |
| tehdely | yes. syncing contacts from more than one exchange account is an edge case | 17:57 |
| pa | on an N series i dont think having more than one exchange account is an edge case | 17:57 |
| tehdely | how many people even have more than one exchange account (yes, i am one, but still) | 17:57 |
| tehdely | well it's better than symbian, where you got one exchange account, period :) | 17:57 |
| pa | everyone who has home and work contacts | 17:57 |
| tehdely | i think my situation is pretty typical. i sync my home contacts, and for work i search the GAL | 17:57 |
| lfranchi | anyone noticed that in 1.2, the wallpaper has a limited colorspace? | 17:57 |
| pa | if you have your home gmail and work gmail, then it's natural you have 2 accounts | 17:58 |
| pinheiro | lfranchi: hehehhee | 17:58 |
| lfranchi | i set a wallpaper with a nice gradient that looks great on the n9 normally, but when i look at it set as the wallpaper it looks like crap | 17:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lfranchi: it does? hm | 17:58 |
| tehdely | ah i see you are using MfE for GMail just like me | 17:58 |
| lfranchi | pinheiro: :P | 17:58 |
| lfranchi | (pinheiro designed the wallpaper :) | 17:58 |
| tehdely | curious:did you do it to get around the IMAP-syncing-fails-and-sucks-up-all-the-battery issue | 17:58 |
| pa | well, there are not many options for sync ing contacts | 17:58 |
| pa | no, actually i did coz i dont know how else i should keep my contacts | 17:59 |
| pinheiro | yeah guys were does one incresse the color space for the wallpaper? | 17:59 |
| pa | i mean gmail sounds natural | 17:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i've just been using the blurry city scene wallpapers that come with it | 17:59 |
| pa | hotmail would be, as well | 17:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which are awesome | 17:59 |
| tehdely | curious how That Other OS handles this | 17:59 |
| tehdely | syncing from multiple sources of contacts | 17:59 |
| tehdely | as far as how it makes decisions on what to keep, and what to sync up, etc. etc. | 17:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the fruit os or the robot os | 18:00 |
| lfranchi | itsnotabigtruck: yeah, i didn't notice it till i used pinheiro's image | 18:00 |
| lfranchi | since he has a think for gradients :) | 18:00 |
| lfranchi | *thing | 18:00 |
| pinheiro | :D and black | 18:00 |
| pa | and the nice part of that other OS is that you can switch off one account, and the related contacts are hided | 18:00 |
| pa | switch it on again, you see them again | 18:00 |
| tehdely | then it must keep separate address books for each source | 18:03 |
| tehdely | which is someting i don't think harmattan does | 18:03 |
| tehdely | that would obv. be necessary to implement what you want | 18:03 |
| Khertan | or keep the source | 18:03 |
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| tehdely | yes or perhaps that | 18:03 |
| tehdely | tagging each contact with where it came from | 18:03 |
| pa | anyway, im filing a bug report about it now | 18:03 |
| pa | it's also funny that symbian sync sms and harmattan does not | 18:04 |
| Khertan | i would prefer they fix other os problem before enhancing account syncing | 18:04 |
| pa | but account syncing is also important | 18:05 |
| pa | and i hope harmattan devs are willing to make it a kickass OS, and fuck Elop :) | 18:05 |
| pa | or is he the one who must not be named? | 18:06 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | the whole elop bashing thing is kinda getting old | 18:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | besides it's not like he and only he is responsible for this situation | 18:11 |
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| pa | well, hes definitely not | 18:11 |
| pa | he's doing what he's being told to do | 18:11 |
| tehdely | plus, some of us think he made the right move | 18:11 |
| * tehdely <-- | 18:11 | |
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| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: the problem is that he's gutting practically everything that gave nokia a compettive edge | 18:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | everything is being unloaded, outsourced, or shut down | 18:12 |
| pa | well.. between killing symbian and killing meego, i would have killed symbian :) | 18:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and yeah, they're still launching more symbian phones, those are phones that should have been running harmattan | 18:12 |
| pa | but i can also understand why keeping symbian | 18:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though they're also launching too many phones still, they need to take a hint from companies like apple | 18:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apple has just one phone, it's THE apple phone | 18:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | historically nokia always does 80 zillion permutations of everything and only a couple are actually any good | 18:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | would be better to focus that into 2 or 3 models like a laser | 18:13 |
| tehdely | all i've seen under Elop | 18:14 |
| CissWit | they do it now, with windows. | 18:14 |
| tehdely | is that Nokia is starting to meet deadlines again | 18:14 |
| tehdely | symbian iterations are coming out faster, and on time | 18:14 |
| tehdely | hell, Belle released globally on the same day... when has that ever happened? | 18:14 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: they already unloaded their symbian development | 18:14 |
| tehdely | i'm in North America, i'm used to getting my firmware 2 months after you | 18:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they hired a contractor to maintain it | 18:14 |
| tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: yes and it was a great move | 18:14 |
| tehdely | accenture's doing a better job than Nokia was | 18:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | harmattan was heavily outsourced and now it's being shut down | 18:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently they sold their in-house baseband system | 18:15 |
| tehdely | well I have a Harmattan phone in my hand. it's beautiful and I love it and I will use it for years and I intend to hack on it, too. but Nokia wants to excite people beyond its base of fanboys | 18:15 |
| pa | tehdely, as far as you know, is it possible to "disable" some contacts in gmail, and having them not downloaded to the phone? | 18:15 |
| pa | or perhaps an entire group | 18:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: harmattan could have totally excited people | 18:15 |
| tehdely | i am a certified Nokia fanboy | 18:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they should have renamed it back to maemo6 though | 18:15 |
| tehdely | nobody else in the US is | 18:15 |
| tehdely | Windows Phone can sell | 18:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that would take care of the whole "meego, didn't they cancel meego" | 18:15 |
| tehdely | itsnotabigtruck: rebranding it wouldn't be a bad idea but at this point what's the use | 18:16 |
| tehdely | they've already declared their intention not to release another one, ya know | 18:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, nobody in the us is aware of it since they didn't launch here and did zero marketing here | 18:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hell, they did zero marketing in countries that they DID launch it in | 18:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is another problem with nokia - they don't launch everywhere and launch hard | 18:16 |
| tehdely | they did that because they want this phone to go quietly into the night | 18:16 |
| tehdely | the people who want this phone will seek it out and buy it | 18:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | true, but that latter problem's been a problem for a long time | 18:17 |
| tehdely | they don't want to push a stillborn platform with very little developer support | 18:17 |
| tehdely | take a look at WP7 | 18:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and also you were just saying that harmattan wouldn't excite people in the us | 18:17 |
| tehdely | the user numbers are abysmal | 18:17 |
| tehdely | but MS lined up every company to make an app for it | 18:17 |
| tehdely | if you're a guy in the US who's never bouth a Nokia phone, and you get this (very pretty) WP handset heavily marketed to you, and it alreayd has apps for everything you want to do... | 18:17 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | true | 18:18 |
| tehdely | elop's move was about platforms. harmattan is this beautiful, quirky thing that some poeple love. i've had it for two days (long-time symbian user before that). i'm in love | 18:19 |
| tehdely | but i probably would have bought this phone if it came in a pile of shit with a letter from Elop saying "Dear Mike; Fuck you" | 18:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 18:19 |
| tehdely | most people would have ignored it without a good selection of apps | 18:19 |
| tehdely | and somethign that really stood out to them as "this is new" | 18:19 |
| tehdely | swipe UI is nice | 18:19 |
| tehdely | but Metro feels a lot more "new" | 18:19 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | http://i.imgur.com/VFjNf.jpg from reddit | 18:20 |
| tehdely | Metro is a reinvention of how you interact with your phone. it's the first genuinely original thing to come out of MS in ages | 18:20 |
| pa | is it just me who thinks that metro sucks? | 18:20 |
| tehdely | i think it will be a big hit once somebody steps up to the plate and really sells a windows phone | 18:20 |
| tehdely | the carriers hate WP and refuse to aggressively sell it; it's not just the phone mfgrs | 18:20 |
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| leinir | pa: Nope. It's sort of like someone from America decided that Nordic minimalism wasn't good enough, and invited it for a walk around teletubbie land :P | 18:20 |
| tehdely | why sell WP7, where the experience is almost 100% controlled by MS | 18:21 |
| tehdely | when you can sell the Droid Charge Infuse Motivate Invigorate, with all of your carrier bloatware installed and half of the features removed | 18:21 |
| pa | i had a windows phone for a few hours, i also tried windows 8 developer preview, and well.. it just sucks.. | 18:21 |
| tehdely | the only reason carriers sell iPhones is because they lose 50% of their users if they don't | 18:21 |
| tehdely | they HATE iPhone | 18:21 |
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| tehdely | but the product itself is so in-demand that carriers beg to carry it, even though they would really rather just sell Android all day | 18:22 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | well, the N9's gradient icons aren't really minimalism | 18:22 |
| tehdely | Nokia has to somehow come out with something appealing enough that the sales guy at my local AT&T store will push it as hard as the Samsung Dodecahedrally Orgasmiate X 2834 F | 18:22 |
| tehdely | and Harmattan wouldn't cut it, sorry | 18:22 |
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| pa | i think a properly supported and developed harmattan would easily outrun android | 18:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | eh, it's impossible to "outrun" android at this point | 18:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it's possible to be in android's league | 18:24 |
| pa | well | 18:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it would have been possible to outrun wp7 | 18:25 |
| pa | harmattan would be always faster than android, at least harmattan applications | 18:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, but android has a zillion vendors backing it and a LOT of momentum | 18:25 |
| tehdely | the advantage of Android is that it has no personality and people expect nothing from it | 18:25 |
| pa | and i tell you: no android user i know is happy with their phone sluggish performance | 18:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's the single most popular platform afaik | 18:25 |
| tehdely | it's a substrate that handset mfgrs and carriers can build upon | 18:25 |
| tehdely | to sell you some already-obsolete piece of shit | 18:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's a major issue | 18:26 |
| tehdely | there's really nothing in it for the user except that maybe they got a cheaper phone with a fatter CPU in it | 18:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, what's in it for the user is a mindboggling number of apps | 18:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the java environment isn't so hot, and the carriers/manufacturers update releasing is deplorable | 18:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but android works and it works with loads of apps | 18:26 |
| pa | apps is not the problem | 18:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | sure apps are the problem | 18:27 |
| pa | support harmattan, apps will come | 18:27 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | my N9 does all the core stuff, but even if nokia turned harmattan up to eleven | 18:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there'd never be everything | 18:27 |
| pa | what do you miss? | 18:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you can get everything for iphone or android | 18:27 |
| pa | do you really need a zillion of apps? | 18:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not so much things in particular, it's more like, some quirky new app comes out that does something cool | 18:27 |
| pa | as long as it does what you need, who cares about zillions of apps? | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | or a frontend for your bank/favorite news website/whatever that's super stylish | 18:28 |
| tehdely | and the approach microsoft has taken with WP7 | 18:28 |
| tehdely | has been | 18:28 |
| tehdely | "we can't get everything, but let's get absolutely ONE OF everything" | 18:28 |
| tehdely | "and line up every hot web 2.0 service and every company and lean on them, maybe even throw money at them, to make sure there's an app" | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the point is, if it's a basic task, harmattan does it | 18:28 |
| tehdely | and not only an app, but a very classily designed app | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if it doesn't come with the OS, somebody's made an app for it | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if it exists, there's an app for it for android or iphone | 18:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and a lot of those apps are damned cool | 18:29 |
| tehdely | if it exists, there's probably _one_ app for it for WP7, and it's slick as hell | 18:29 |
| pa | i dont see this as a problem, im sorry.. | 18:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: then you're one of those apologists who tries to ignore the major factor of a smartphone platform | 18:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is app support | 18:29 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | every time you have a platform with limited 3rd party support you have everyone coming to its defense saying "i don't need apps" | 18:30 |
| pa | and if i were nokia, i would have rather supported Qt for android. Qt is so much cooler than anything else, let people use it for android, and they will port the app to harmattan | 18:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yes you do | 18:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | on the other hand, on WP7 you have stuff like that guy who made 100 super-generic apps and published them for $2 before wp7 came out | 18:30 |
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| pa | itsnotabigtruck, harmattan is a linux. on my ubuntu i can do everything i need, more than on windows (even there are more "apps" for windows). Do i need the frontend for my bank on ubuntu? | 18:30 |
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| pa | do i need the little cat repeating what i say? | 18:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: true, but mobile browsers aren't so hot a lot of the time | 18:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the N9's included | 18:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | especially on desktop pages | 18:31 |
| beford | Free downloads:666 | 18:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | on the flip side of the coin with app this app business | 18:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, like you said, harmattan is a linux, and that means you have access to so many programs built for standard linux | 18:33 |
| tehdely | i bought a harmattan phone because i can make my own apps for it with more ease than i probably can for any other platform, and they can actually hook into the OS where I want them to | 18:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *with this app business | 18:33 |
| pa | yeah you just need a touch friendly interface | 18:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and also, a large number of iphone/android apps are tainted with ads and espionage | 18:33 |
| tehdely | Android is just Linux with a Java layer | 18:33 |
| tehdely | i need some GNU with my Linux :) | 18:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | by virtue of harmattan's novelty there's extremely little of that | 18:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i do need to figure out a way to expunge that little ad from accuweather though, lol | 18:34 |
| pa | :) | 18:34 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | btw any idea what happened to EDGE, the game? | 18:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it was in the ovi store, but then got pulled at some point | 18:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the port was kind of borked apparently, but that could have been fixed :p | 18:38 |
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| pa | tehdely, you cant choose which contact groups to sync in 1.2, can you? | 18:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: still around? | 18:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | want to try the latest version of ad-hac (wifi hotspot hack for US N9 owners) | 18:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm pretty sure i have the issue worked out where it gets stuck half-installed and can't be removed :p | 18:50 |
| tehdely | i'm glad i helf off on trying until now, then :) | 18:50 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, iirc, nokia accepted that bug | 18:51 |
| tehdely | i will in a moment, i am preparing breakfast | 18:51 |
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| * djszapiN9 has just won yet another N9 with Kanagram :) | 18:54 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | tehdely: when you're ready, it's http://zunedevwiki.org/misc/ad-hac_0.1_all.deb | 18:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: if any of those other N9s belong to you, that could have gone to somebody who doesn't have one yet | 18:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | actually, on second thought | 18:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | N9s are kind of a strange prize for a competition concerning N9 apps | 18:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because realistically basically everyone who's submitted an N9 app probably has an N9(50) already :p | 18:55 |
| djszapiN9 | i am really happy i can give it my mum. | 18:56 |
| djszapiN9 | to* | 18:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh, fair enough | 18:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | now what would be a very cool prize would be N950s out of the remaining inventory | 18:57 |
| tehdely | ^^^ | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | given that it's not like you can just lay down cash for one of those | 18:58 |
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| beford | hey admiral0_ | 18:59 |
| beford | we finished over your team :D | 18:59 |
| beford | xD | 18:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: was this competition among nokia employees/contractors/something or over ovi store apps in general | 18:59 |
| djszapiN9 | itsnotabigtruck, internal. | 19:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ah, that explains both not having heard about it and how you were able to win | 19:00 |
| * djszapiN9 still has an N9 for changing with a playbook. | 19:00 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | (building an app in a couple weeks and getting it to #1 in ovi for reviews would be...tricky :p) | 19:01 |
| admiral0_ | :( | 19:01 |
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| admiral0 | beford: net 100... we couldn't open the fucking zip | 19:02 |
| beford | lol | 19:02 |
| admiral0 | how did u open it | 19:02 |
| beford | a friend used some zip repair software, extracted key file and then we used the 1984 date as the decryption key | 19:02 |
| djszapiN9 | itsnotabigtruck, yes i was lucky with being able to reuse kde technologies. | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: that's not what i meant but OK :p | 19:03 |
| djszapiN9 | 2 weeks are not much for such an application like kanagram | 19:03 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | it seems like the ovi store almost exclusively lists paid apps as featured | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapiN9: right, but i was more saying that it takes a long time to build something so awesome that *everyone* will download it | 19:04 |
| djszapiN9 | imo, it has a decent ui in comparison with many applications, and also stability. | 19:04 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | things like emumaster that have a huge following | 19:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw tmo went back up | 19:05 |
| djszapiN9 | itsnotabigtruck, nah, not really | 19:05 |
| djszapiN9 | torch app has 441 reviews | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | eh, fair enough | 19:05 |
| djszapiN9 | and it is just toggling the stuff | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that's mostly just a matter of having the app in the right place in the right time | 19:05 |
| djszapiN9 | depends on your audience | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which is still why i'm a bit incensed that nokia paid out $50k to the dev of that app | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 19:06 |
| djszapiN9 | kanagram is not meant for wide audience | 19:06 |
| djszapiN9 | same with fingerdrums, but complete fun for those special people who are interested in :) | 19:09 |
| djszapiN9 | btw the ios hangman application is quite scary with that galloes and real character hanging :) | 19:10 |
| djszapiN9 | i just make a failed logo hanging in my harmattan version :) | 19:10 |
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| beford | itsnotabigtruck, 50k for phonetorch? :| | 19:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | beford: yeah | 19:12 |
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| djszapiN9 | beford, and 441 reviews | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there was some sort of qt n9 apps competition up to the end of 2011 | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | based on getting the most downloads | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it wasn't open to everyone, by invitation only | 19:13 |
| beford | oh | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and they invited a bunch of symbian developers who already make ridiculous shareware type stuff | 19:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (that's been a big problem with symbian for a long time) | 19:14 |
| djszapiN9 | yeah, we laughed at here.back then | 19:14 |
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| djszapiN9 | looked as a scam in the first place :) | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and one of the criteria was to have a novel and sophisticated app, or something along those lines | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | which could have easily disqualified phonetorch | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there were some really good apps in the runners up | 19:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they got prizes too though - $10k each | 19:14 |
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| beford | yea ton of apps require more work than phonetorch :P | 19:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it seems like sheer downloads is a bad metric for a competition, it needs to be based on some weighting of sophistication, polish, and utility | 19:16 |
| djszapiN9 | i personally do not like that app | 19:16 |
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| djszapiN9 | imo, flashlight is cooler | 19:16 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | there's lots of trivial apps that lots of people need but shouldn't win prizes | 19:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and there's lots of apps that are somewhat niche, but amazing | 19:16 |
| djszapiN9 | disagree | 19:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the flashlight is definitely cool | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so many modes :D | 19:17 |
| djszapiN9 | imo, people making useful stuff for the world, deserve that | 19:17 |
| djszapiN9 | i always consider users, not developers in the end. | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but "useful" is too broad | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | my ad-hac is useful but i wouldn't claim i deserve some sort of prize for putting a config file in /etc :p | 19:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also franz's pastebins of log output from ad-hac are already near the top of the google results for that, lol | 19:18 |
| jonni | after installing rsync to n9 life is so much easier, atleast when synching mp3 playlists etc :) | 19:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 19:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw anyone else besides tehdely here located in the US? | 19:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if so, a) start wifi hotspot, b) verify that it won't launch, c) scroll up and install ad-hac, d) launch wifi hotspot again | 19:23 |
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| Jare | hmm.. there's a binary called "videohost" under /usr/lib/skyhost/. Has it been there before PR1.2? | 19:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also pa: accepted which bug? | 19:25 |
| jpwhiting | hey all is there a site which lists which devices should be able to grab the ota update by now? | 19:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they're not going to fix the wifi hotspot thing | 19:25 |
| jpwhiting | one device has it here, but the other doesn't | 19:25 |
| jpwhiting | just being curious | 19:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jpwhiting: all 00x variants should have it | 19:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you might have a country variant image with a 2xx/3xx/4xx variant | 19:26 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, i see 1033 that has been assigned internally | 19:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just flash it | 19:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: supposedly it's to comply with FCC radio emission requirements | 19:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not a bug, they specifically added logic to detect if one is connected to a cell tower in the us | 19:26 |
| djszapiN9 | jpwhiting, hi, how are you ? | 19:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jpwhiting: http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=%20http%3A%2F%2Fzunedevwiki.org%2Fmisc%2Fad-hac_0.1_all.deb | 19:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ad-hac wifi! | 19:27 |
| jpwhiting | djszapiN9: I'm doing fine, you? | 19:27 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, 1033 is requesting infrastructure hotspot | 19:27 |
| jpwhiting | itsnotabigtruck: I'm leary of flashing because of the dead device sitting here :p | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jpwhiting: you weren't able to get that exchanged? :( | 19:28 |
| jpwhiting | itsnotabigtruck: I don't really need it since I have another device | 19:28 |
| djszapiN9 | itsnotabigtruck, ad-hack wifi ;) | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | wasn't it inoperative before you started flashing it? | 19:28 |
| jpwhiting | but I'll be sending this dead one to nokia as soon as I get a chicago address | 19:28 |
| jpwhiting | yeah, it was | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | with the very weird errors you received, i'm guessing something went wrong with the emmc | 19:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's the only real explanation for the rootfs refusing to flash like that | 19:29 |
| jpwhiting | yeah, probably | 19:29 |
| jpwhiting | djszapiN9: this one that's still on PR 1.1 is PR_480 | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jpwhiting: that's the answer | 19:29 |
| jpwhiting | so it's not available yet? | 19:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's either a carrier-specific or country-specific variant that might never be upgraded | 19:29 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | well, in the latter case it should be updated eventually... | 19:30 |
| jpwhiting | ah, I see | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they did all of the generic (001 through 009) images in a couple days, and none of the others yet | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so that isn't very promising for non-generic image users | 19:30 |
| djszapiN9 | jpwhiting, also fine, just moved into the new apartment few minutes ago, and i like it :) | 19:30 |
| jpwhiting | gotcha | 19:30 |
| jpwhiting | djszapiN9: nice, moving isn't fun, but new places are | 19:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | after all that flashing trouble before i'm pretty sure you know it all already but i posted this yesterday http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82693 | 19:31 |
| jpwhiting | itsnotabigtruck: ok, maybe I'll try it later on some time | 19:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it talks about the downgrade restriction, downloading stuff, etc. | 19:31 |
| jpwhiting | ah, very nice | 19:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | while you wait for the download, you could install ad-hac :p | 19:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | meanwhile i need to get moving | 19:32 |
| jpwhiting | what's ad-hac, yeah I need to run soon too | 19:32 |
| jpwhiting | this device is 059L5D1 swiss I believe | 19:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://qrcode.kaywa.com/img.php?s=8&d=http%3A%2F%2Fzunedevwiki.org%2Fmisc%2Fad-hac_0.1_all.deb < previous link had a leading space in it | 19:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | scroll up a little bit, i was describing it just before you said arrived | 19:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | uh oh...more installation bugs | 19:35 |
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| tehdely | sorry itsnotabigtruck, i'm running late to work | 19:37 |
| tehdely | i'll have to try ad-hac later | 19:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | np | 19:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't actually install it yet | 19:37 |
| tehdely | but let me assure you, i will. i am your target audience | 19:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | crap, i know what went wrong | 19:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i didn't copy the new deb to my web server | 19:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | jpwhiting: if you downloaded that, don't install it | 19:37 |
| tehdely | i'm an american who doesn't mind getting nuked. after all i never stopped drinking milk after fukushima, so what's a little extra radiatino from my N9 ;) | 19:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 19:38 |
| djszapi | jpwhiting: true :) | 19:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, NOW the correct version is up | 19:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i was wondering why the old bug came back, it's because i was using an old deb | 19:38 |
| flat` | .3333333333333333 | 19:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, currently uploaded ad-hac works | 19:39 |
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| ZogG_laptop | f#k, iwhat the f* | 19:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | i hate policy of ovi | 19:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | and pr1.0 in qtcreator | 19:50 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, by the way, was it you suggesting to change an icon at runtime? | 19:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: probably | 19:51 |
| pa | there's the IP Address widget that does it | 19:51 |
| pa | in python | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah | 19:51 |
| pa | i have to modify it, tho, as soon as i have time | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's simply a matter of modifying the desktop | 19:51 |
| pa | and write the ip address in two lines, like this is not always readable | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | my program uses glib (which has a parser that knows the .desktop file format) | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but simply doing a text search/replace often works | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that seems like an ugly application fora live icon though | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | how about just having a gui app that shows network info | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it should be ipv6 aware too | 19:52 |
| pa | well, it's practical still. | 19:53 |
| pa | you need to see your ip, you click the button and see it | 19:53 |
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| pa | no need to close it after | 19:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | so i took some parts of libs inside my app coz they avilable only in pr1.2, but say what? i need to modify other existens libs | 19:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | what the fuck | 19:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: what would you suggest me? | 19:54 |
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| pa | do you know where call recorder store the files? | 20:02 |
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| pa | i dont have sudo?? | 20:07 |
| djszapi | devel-su | 20:07 |
| djszapi | as we said you few days ago. | 20:07 |
| pa | well ok but what about sudo? | 20:07 |
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| djszapi | why would you use that on Harmattan ? | 20:08 |
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| pa | so, say, | 20:09 |
| pa | i want to do ln -s CallRecorder .CallRecorder | 20:09 |
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| pa | how do i do that? devel-su -c "ln -s blabla" ? | 20:09 |
| djszapi | why would you do that symlink ? | 20:10 |
| pa | is that important? :) | 20:11 |
| pa | mostly because i cannot see it otherwise as it's a hidden directory | 20:11 |
| djszapi | yes, it is important for me to understand the situation to be able to help you. | 20:12 |
| jonni | ZogG_laptop: sorry didnt understand the question.- | 20:12 |
| DrGrov | Evening | 20:13 |
| DrGrov | Everything went well with the PR 1.2 update for the N9. But I wonder, why does the phone turn itself on when I am charging it? The power was off and on PR 1.1 it charges without powering up. | 20:13 |
| pa | ah so.. | 20:13 |
| pa | symlinks are not permitted in harmattan.. | 20:13 |
| pa | cool | 20:13 |
| pa | even as root "operation not permitted" | 20:13 |
| pa | is that coz it's fat? | 20:14 |
| djszapi | I do not still understand why you would do that. | 20:14 |
| djszapi | it is aegisfs too. | 20:14 |
| djszapi | could you please present a scenario what you are now trying to achieve ? | 20:14 |
| pa | MyDocs type vfat | 20:14 |
| jonni | he wants to do that because mass-storage mode hides .-dirs | 20:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: the problem we talked earlier, that there is only 1.0 in qtsdk | 20:14 |
| pa | i am trying to link the directory .CallRecorder to "CallRecorder" | 20:15 |
| djszapi | pa: I know what ln does :) | 20:15 |
| pa | so that i can see in the file browser without enabling hidden files | 20:15 |
| jonni | ZogG_laptop: yep because you are only allowed to use 1.0 API's on ovi store apps. | 20:15 |
| pa | but yeah, no symlinks no party | 20:15 |
| djszapi | pa: dp you really do this on desktop too ? | 20:16 |
| pa | on desktop? | 20:16 |
| djszapi | because all I would suggest is to fix the file browser. | 20:16 |
| djszapi | or just use its configurability. | 20:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | jonni: f Ovi | 20:16 |
| pa | i dont want to see hidden files and directories in a mobile file browser, honestly | 20:16 |
| DrGrov | Apparently no one else is annoyed by this charging thing... LOL :) | 20:16 |
| DrGrov | Is it a setting or such that makes it turn itself on when I charge? | 20:17 |
| DrGrov | Second question... What happened to the Online/Offline status bar on the drop-down menu on main screen? | 20:18 |
| DrGrov | I do not see it anymore... | 20:18 |
| jonni | depends, on rd mode it autoboots on pr 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2. And on normal mode it depends what what state it was before it was closed and how it was closed. | 20:19 |
| DrGrov | jonni: I closed it without any running apps, a clean turn off of the device. | 20:20 |
| jonni | closed from commandline or ui? | 20:20 |
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| jonni | and if you close it from ui again while charging cable is in, does it autoreboot again? | 20:21 |
| DrGrov | jonni: UI. It rebooted itself once I upgrade to PR 1.2 and then I turned it off and wanted to charge it. | 20:21 |
| DrGrov | jonni: I have not tested yet to turn it off when I have the charging cable in. It did it once for me on PR 1.1 that it started once I plugged in the charging cable. Just once though. That happened because I put the cable a bit too slow and it got connection and powered on. | 20:22 |
| DrGrov | But then I closed the phone and plugged back the charging cable to charge it and it did not turn itself on anymore like it did the first time. | 20:22 |
| DrGrov | jonni: Could the DIY OperatorLogo app cause the phone to start itself when I charge? | 20:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: doubt it | 20:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, it *always* starts when you attach to usb, into "act dead" (charging) mode | 20:25 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Hi. Ok, good to know. I thought since that is the last thing I installed. | 20:25 |
| jonni | agaik no, afaik charging behaviour has not changed in pr1.2 | 20:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (well, i can't speak as to what happens if you turn on rd-mode) | 20:25 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | it's not supposed to boot all the way though | 20:26 |
| DrGrov | Well, it did turn up a USB cable picture when I plugged it in. Strange, perhaps it thought it was going to be in USB mass storage mode. | 20:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the updated NOLO in PR1.2 shows a usb icon whenever usb is attached | 20:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that includes usb chargers | 20:26 |
| DrGrov | Yes, that is the icon I saw. | 20:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but after the NOKIA screen shows up for a while, you should just get a battery icon | 20:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | instead of booting all the way into the os | 20:27 |
| DrGrov | Perhaps it did not want to stay in "act dead mode" because of that | 20:27 |
| DrGrov | Yes, I should get the battery icon. But I will try again later once I get it fully charged and checked a few things. THen I will try again to see if it boots itself all the way or not. | 20:27 |
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| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Have you got the chance to see what actually changes? I noticed that the closing of apps fading is so sexy. But not much else I have noticed. | 20:29 |
| *** gri is now known as zz_gri | 20:29 | |
| DrGrov | But one thing I saw is that the Availability which shows online or offline status was missing from the drop-down menu where I see the profile, bluetooth etc. | 20:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what do you mean? | 20:30 |
| DrGrov | When I press the top "bar" where the operator name is it shows me the profile, volume, bluetooth etc. | 20:30 |
| DrGrov | But on PR 1.1 it showed me the availability as offline but not anymore. It is completely missing, it was the 3rd option at the end. | 20:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hrm | 20:31 |
| DrGrov | Could it be because I only have 1 account and that being the Nokia account? | 20:31 |
| DrGrov | No accounts like Twitter and/or Skype? | 20:32 |
| DrGrov | I always saw my status as Offline in PR 1.1 but now in PR 1.2 I do not see anything. | 20:33 |
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| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Do you know what I am trying to say? :) | 20:35 |
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| ZogG_laptop | frals: ping | 20:46 |
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| djszapi | mmh, what is the best way or breaking a horizontal positioner into more lines instead of exceeding the page width ? | 20:49 |
| djszapi | is there a simple wrap/break feature for that somehow ? | 20:50 |
| djszapi | of* | 20:51 |
| jonni | Grid? | 20:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: oh, that's it | 20:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i was going to ask if you had any other accounts but assumed you did | 20:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's no need for availability if you don't have accounts to set it on :p | 20:54 |
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| djszapi | jonni: aye, grid might do it. | 20:56 |
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| ZogG_laptop | harmattan_10.2011.34 is 1.1 or 1.0? | 21:23 |
| djszapi | 1.0 | 21:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | =\ | 21:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | djszapi: you are using scratchbox right? | 21:39 |
| djszapi | yup | 21:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | did you udapted it? | 21:40 |
| djszapi | "udapted" ? | 21:40 |
| ZogG_laptop | do you use 1.0 as well? | 21:41 |
| djszapi | nah I always used bleeding edge unreleased almost every single day | 21:41 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm serious | 21:42 |
| pa | does anybody here use the N9 as alarm clock? | 21:44 |
| phako | i do | 21:45 |
| djszapi | o/ | 21:45 |
| phako | why? | 21:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | pa: i do | 21:46 |
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| pa | ZogG_laptop, do you manage to turn it off when the screen is blank? | 21:49 |
| pa | here it only snoozes | 21:49 |
| pa | coz i have to press the button to turn on the screen | 21:49 |
| pa | and it stops it from ringing | 21:49 |
| pa | but by snoozing it | 21:49 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | jonni: still around? | 21:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it looks like all the video calling app in ovi store does is tweak some configuration files during install | 21:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so, if all that had to be done is turn it on, any idea why this wasn't integrated into pr1.2? | 21:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it would be nice if at least the enabler package were in the repositories so novel connection managers could depend on it | 22:00 |
| djszapi | what you need to understand in the first place in general: simple thing != no high risks for regressions. | 22:00 |
| pa | ZogG_laptop, means no? :) | 22:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as it stands, if i understand correctly, since the enabler is closed source and not in the repos, every new video-calling enabled telepathy connection manager now has to implement its own version of video-call-installer | 22:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | especially since the latter is closed source | 22:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that would cause major problems on its own, with different video calling hacks conflicting with each other | 22:01 |
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| djszapi | on top of regression risk, even if a task is only to pusha button, it is hard enough to work out, if there is nobody to actually push that darn button.. | 22:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: ok, skip the "fold into pr1.x" part...what about loading it into the repo though | 22:15 |
| djszapi | you saw the SDK team in action... | 22:15 |
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| djszapi | guess what.. | 22:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, fair enough | 22:18 |
| djszapi | it took me almost a year to make them update cmake | 22:19 |
| djszapi | with a bugfix (!) release. | 22:19 |
| djszapi | and I finally did all the job for them (packaging, testing, etc) | 22:19 |
| djszapi | the SDK team is notoriously my antagoist :) | 22:20 |
| djszapi | antagonist* | 22:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, i've noticed :p | 22:21 |
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| djszapi | funky: http://paste.kde.org/432044/ | 22:23 |
| beford | oh I made your app crash djszapi | 22:25 |
| beford | pressing the "solve" and "next" buttons too fast | 22:25 |
| beford | :D | 22:25 |
| beford | xD | 22:25 |
| djszapi | blolz :) | 22:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/binary?arch=armv7el&filename=ad-hac_0.1_all.deb&package=ad-hac&project=home%3Aitsnotabigtruck&repository=Harmattan | 22:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ad-hac's now on obs | 22:25 |
| djszapi | you mean c-obs. | 22:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you get what i mean | 22:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | c-obs is an obs, so both work | 22:28 |
| djszapi | not vica-versa | 22:28 |
| decibyte | vim and screen seems to have disappeared after flashing 1.2 onto my n9. how do i get (the repository containing) them back? | 22:29 |
| djszapi | so might be a bit confusing here. | 22:29 |
| djszapi | decibyte: add the comm repo | 22:29 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, let me get this straight. So if I only have my Nokia account in Accounts then there will be no availability available from the drop down menu where I see profile, volume, bluetooth etc. ? | 22:29 |
| djszapi | or remove the comment | 22:29 |
| decibyte | djszapi: ahh. of course. thx. | 22:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: right, because there's no availability to set | 22:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | add a skype or gtalk acount | 22:31 |
| djszapi | so how can my app crash even out of my code ? :o | 22:32 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: And with Skype or Gtalk account voila, it appears? :) | 22:32 |
| djszapi | and how to fix it meh | 22:32 |
| * djszapi does not have the sake to truncate it | 22:32 | |
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| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, good. Thanks for clarifying that for me. That was a nice surprise with the new PR 1.2. I always had to stare at availability otherwise, finally I got rid of it | 22:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, it would be cool to have an icon with a flag with a wifi logo/icon/whatnot crossed with a us flag | 22:34 |
| * itsnotabigtruck lacks the graphics mojo to pull that off | 22:34 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: i'm just assuming here...i haven't actually put an account on my pr1.2 install yet | 22:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | since i'm not using google talk, and while i use skype i'm trying to move away from it | 22:35 |
| rdnzl | jabber would be nice :) | 22:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah...an account plugin that clones the google plugin but adds the all important ability to change the server is badly needed | 22:37 |
| djszapi | there was a guy here long ago writing one | 22:38 |
| djszapi | ~seen djszapi | 22:38 |
| infobot | djszapi is currently on #harmattan (2h 3m 32s). Has said a total of 29 messages. Is idling for 5s, last said: '~seen djszapi'. | 22:38 |
| rdnzl | so what happened to it? | 22:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think it's on github but half finished | 22:40 |
| djszapi | ask him ? | 22:40 |
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| djszapi | I was personally also writing an ocs plugin, apps4meego involved, but I gave up when the designer betrayed me | 22:40 |
| djszapi | though it was mostly done. | 22:41 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: No worries. I think that is the cause why I do not see availability. I just got the Nokia account. | 22:41 |
| itsnotabigtruck | djszapi: ocs = office communications server? | 22:41 |
| djszapi | no | 22:42 |
| djszapi | Open Collaboration Services (our standard) | 22:42 |
| djszapi | which is used by opendesktop, gamingfreedom, apps4meego and the like. | 22:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ah | 22:44 |
| DrGrov | Any way to follow up on what users have told about PR 1.2? Is there any thread on talk.maemo.org about PR 1.2 and user feedback? | 22:44 |
| djszapi | DrGrov: meego forum for instance | 22:44 |
| DrGrov | djszapi: And where is that exactly located? :) | 22:45 |
| djszapi | http://forum.meego.com/forumdisplay.php?f=7 | 22:45 |
| DrGrov | djszapi: Thank you, I head there to see. | 22:45 |
| djszapi | :nods: | 22:45 |
| DrGrov | Feels like I am not getting out all of PR 1.2. I am sure I am missing something | 22:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just downloaded something from depositfiles, it manages to be even worse than rapidshare | 22:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: all the little ui tweaks, the autoupdating calendar icon (but my app gets you that on pr1.1), homescreen folders, video calling (when you install that package from the ovi store that enables it) | 22:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | autodetection of ovi store app updates | 22:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | upnp audio server | 22:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | probably countless other little things i forgot | 22:48 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: That was huge, I got 700MB of updates after I installed PR 1.2. | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | oh yeah, and continuous camera capture | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 22:49 |
| DrGrov | I almost fell off my chair when I saw the amount :D | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | are you sure those weren't the updates to the preinstalled games | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the racing and golf games are huge | 22:49 |
| DrGrov | Yes, updates to the preinstalled games. Some minor other updates as well, AccuWeather. | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they were updated as part of PR1.2 but the updates install separately from the OTA upgrade | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but since the updates are part of the 1.2 flash images, that doesn't count :p | 22:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also preinstalled apps aren't retrieved from the ovi store | 22:50 |
| DrGrov | Ok, but still 1GB of installing today was quite heavy to follow :D | 22:50 |
| DrGrov | One thing I liked that I saw was that the Internet connection section was updated and made more clear. | 22:51 |
| DrGrov | A bit nicer I must say. I wonder though if I should enable background data or not... I am not sure if I should do it because the battery drain could become catastrophical | 22:51 |
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| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Is it possible to crop pictures directly on the N9 to make them fit as wallpapers? | 22:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: i'm not sure...i think pr1.2 added some on-device editing features too | 22:58 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok :) Does the N9 play the actual recorded 720p HD or do I need to copy it from the device to my computer to be able to play it? | 22:58 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | DrGrov: i think it can do 720p, though no higher - but that's a waste of space | 23:02 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | since the n9 is more like 480p | 23:02 |
| DrGrov | itsnotabigtruck: Ok, I will try later to record some 720p and watch it. Luckily I can get it to the computer if needed. | 23:03 |
| pa | it can play what it record | 23:03 |
| pa | i dont know what sort of encoding it uses | 23:03 |
| DrGrov | pa: Thanks for clarifying it. | 23:03 |
| DrGrov | The file format becomes .mp4 if I do not remember wrong? | 23:03 |
| pa | it does, but im not sure what codec is used | 23:03 |
| jonni | it can play the video it records on 720p, but it cannot play external 720p x264 videos. | 23:03 |
| DrGrov | Ok, thanks jonni and pa. | 23:04 |
| DrGrov | I gotta try it when I have something to record | 23:04 |
| DrGrov | Be back later, gotta test a few things on the N9. | 23:04 |
| DrGrov | Thanks guys for the kind help once again :) | 23:04 |
| pa | if you want a phone for video recording, this is not the one :) | 23:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it has to be possible to get it to play "external 720p x264 videos" with the right settings -if- it uses h.264 for the video it records | 23:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it likely doesn't | 23:05 |
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| pa | no, it's probably not h264 | 23:05 |
| pa | i tried to encode something with the simplest h264 settings at 720p, and it doesnt make it | 23:05 |
| jonni | most likely it uses some codec which happens to be supported by N9 DSP, and most likely that is not h264 | 23:05 |
| DrGrov | pa: Probably yes :) Could just be nice to get some 720p HD from some nice locations :) | 23:05 |
| pa | wel that you can have | 23:06 |
| DrGrov | Yay! Good good. But, I am off. Talk to you later. | 23:07 |
| pa | also the flash is not the best i've seen | 23:07 |
| pa | meaning it's pretty weak | 23:07 |
| trx | it can record 720p and encode it with dsph264 | 23:07 |
| trx | i use it to stream video to my pc | 23:07 |
| trx | (N950) | 23:07 |
| trx | but thats not the same hardware | 23:08 |
| pa | trx, hah funny.. you mean it can encode 720p h264 but not decode? :D | 23:08 |
| trx | i did not try to decode | 23:08 |
| pa | i should still have that link | 23:08 |
| pa | moment | 23:08 |
| pa | http://www.auby.no/files/video_tests/ | 23:09 |
| pa | there you find some 720p examples | 23:09 |
| trx | did u use dsph264 or just h264 pin? | 23:09 |
| pa | which played actually better than those i made.. | 23:09 |
| pa | i used the integrated player | 23:09 |
| jonni | that page is useless, you should give pointer to 720p base profile example, its already stated that high and normal profiles dont work | 23:10 |
| pa | jonni, funny enough those 720p videos play slow, but play | 23:10 |
| pa | i made an example myself baseline | 23:11 |
| pa | and it didnt open at all | 23:11 |
| pa | 480p instead played smoothly | 23:11 |
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| pa | and by the way, i found a page that say that 3630 can play 720p main, if you use gpu and cpu | 23:12 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: since pr 1.2 aegis is rejecting packages from the devel repo for the n9 | 23:13 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | blueslee: yup | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i tried to get the word out but it was obviously not very effective | 23:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82495 | 23:22 |
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| blueslee | oh man ... issues about issues with pr 1.2, i shouldnt have upgraded | 23:28 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | blueslee: it's not that bad... | 23:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this is one bug, which can be worked around | 23:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | very annoying but it's not a catastrophic problem | 23:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | also btw if you could bump that thread that would be awesome | 23:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=ad-hac&project=MeeGo%3A1.2%3AHarmattan%3AApps%3ATesting | 23:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yay | 23:32 |
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| rhkfin | n950, writing message in portrait mode with HW keyboard always shows also the virtual keyboard. Not nice. | 23:32 |
| blueslee | so far everthying went wrong since two days: bug 123 in pr 1.2 -> attempt to restore backup with rescue image (not allowed since pr 1.2) -> attempt to install lps hacks installing packages from devel repo (also not allowed in pr 1.2) | 23:33 |
| rhkfin | .. and looses the 'send' button every now and then. | 23:33 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, REOP, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 23:33 |
| pa | trx what is dsph264? | 23:34 |
| trx | dsph264enc i believe is the exact name | 23:35 |
| blueslee | i know that the n9 is not a developer phone but ... | 23:35 |
| trx | i assume that its dsp powered h264 encoder | 23:35 |
| jonni | http://samsungi8910omnia.com/downloads/Video023.mp4 atleast looks like it can play some 720p's just fine. most likely that is base profile x264. | 23:35 |
| jonni | so it can decode 720p too | 23:36 |
| trx | you can install gstreamer-tools and check out what else is there | 23:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so it's just a matter of tuning your videos for the requirements of the picky dsp decoder | 23:36 |
| pa | jonni, ah funny | 23:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it does do 720p vids | 23:36 |
| pa | the one i made in baseline didnt work | 23:36 |
| blueslee | itsnotabigtruck: i guess the open mode will solve all my issues ... i will reactivate your mentioned thread, thanks for your observations and work | 23:37 |
| pa | probably i screwed up something in handbrake | 23:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | is there anybody here right now based in the US | 23:37 |
| jonni | blueslee: you can always install deb packages by hand, its only rejecting the repo, not the packages. | 23:38 |
| npm | jonni: here's an example of a video that shoudld play buty doesn't | 23:38 |
| npm | video-suite http://traffic.libsyn.com/youngturks/tytTEASE-20120229-Tease.m4v | 23:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i.e. affected by the wifi hotspot problem | 23:38 |
| npm | s/buty/but | 23:38 |
| blueslee | jonni: too many packages and dependencies | 23:39 |
| npm | seems like an instance of https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=683 | 23:39 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 683 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO WONTFIX, lags when playing HD videos | 23:39 |
| jonni | noway for me to download 400mb example | 23:39 |
| npm | which isn't a won'tfix | 23:40 |
| npm | jonni: don't download, stream | 23:40 |
| npm | it will play for one second, then die | 23:40 |
| pa | npm how do you stream video on N9? | 23:40 |
| pa | i mean, it works for me with kmplayer, but it looks like here not many use it | 23:40 |
| npm | the same vid res in http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube.xhtml gets glitch or crashes QtMobility player | 23:41 |
| pa | ah qtmobility player.. | 23:42 |
| jonni | pa: that link uses avc which isnt supported by dps | 23:42 |
| npm | go to shell and do | 23:42 |
| pa | not in the market i suppose | 23:42 |
| npm | "video-suite http://traffic.libsyn.com/youngturks/tytTEASE-20120229-Tease.m4v" | 23:42 |
| npm | that's how to stream | 23:42 |
| jonni | dps=sdp | 23:42 |
| jonni | dps=dsp | 23:42 |
| jonni | typo evening | 23:42 |
| pa | video suite? interesting | 23:42 |
| npm | or find it in gpodder, and tell it to stream which wuill do same thing | 23:42 |
| pa | it's there by default? | 23:42 |
| npm | it' | 23:42 |
| npm | s the video player | 23:42 |
| pa | yes | 23:43 |
| npm | video suite and sour | 23:43 |
| npm | (re wontfix) | 23:43 |
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| pa | in any case i dont really care anymore, since it plays its own 720p stuff, and for the rest, i probably dont have anything 720p baseline already, so i would have to reencode anyway | 23:48 |
| pa | then i can do it 480, as the screen is 480, and the video out is analog composite | 23:48 |
| npm | it actually has problems playing 480p from youtube, pr 1.0 didn't | 23:48 |
| pa | if it's high profile , i guess it does | 23:48 |
| pa | (and yes, it probably is) | 23:49 |
| jonni | m.youtube.com doesnt use high profile though, atleast I havent seen any yet. | 23:49 |
| pa | ah, then there are some problems | 23:49 |
| npm | i tried all manner of disk and network playback in http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube.xhtml on pr1.2 and pr1.0 and imho it got slower on video | 23:50 |
| npm | it used to be able to play back 720p video for a while until the audio went out of synch or got quiiet | 23:50 |
| jonni | might be that qmltube doesnt filter out high profile videos as it should | 23:51 |
| npm | it just uses the mobile download rates provided. works fine in "high quality mode" but that's trivial | 23:52 |
| npm | you can set 360p 480 720 and 1080 (at least on my home version) | 23:52 |
| npm | and it'll do the right thing on my linux desktop (which was the point, getting it portable) | 23:53 |
| npm | but telling it to explicitly download at 480p now, or playback will cause failure when it didn't before | 23:53 |
| npm | it's about the only thing that got worse, other than the scrolling text blur issue that nobody seems to see other than myself :-) | 23:54 |
| jonni | for 3rd party youtube client pr1.2 might be pickier on detecting framedrops, whereas I havent seen any problems in the native youtube client. | 23:55 |
| npm | it crashes the app. that's very picky | 23:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | isn't the "native youtube client" a web link andhtml5 video tags? | 23:56 |
| npm | and the app uses standard Qt Mobility video player | 23:56 |
| npm | http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube_1.11.1_armel.deb or ... svn checkout http://ytd-meego.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/playground/qmltube ; qtcreator qmltube/qmltube.pro | 23:57 |
| npm | someone feel free to fix it. i'm Two apps behind :-) | 23:58 |
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