| DocScrutinizer | (<itsnotabigtruck> if iwlist bombs out, it'll return a non-zero value. check for that) A pity you have to say that. A pity most coders thing return codes are to make void a meaningful reserved word | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
| DocScrutinizer | think* | 00:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | man 2 close: >>Not checking the return value of close() is a common but nevertheless serious programming error.<< | 00:02 |
| rigow | /sbin/initctl restart ssh gives initctl:Unknown instance despite the fact that I have a /etc/init/ssh.conf | 00:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd like to augment that like "not checking *any* return code is most commonly a severy programming error, unlress the coder adds a comment why (s)he thinks the return code doesn't matter in that special instance" | 00:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: devel-su -c 'apt-get --reinstall install openssh-server' | 00:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | of course I can do a void system("/my/nifty/helper-tool"); but not without //implicit abort when this fails, as we can't recover anyway | 00:05 |
| rigow | itsnotabigtruck, you just spared my 20min of RTFM :) thanks a ton :) | 00:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: did it work? | 00:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | because i have no idea if it'll work :p | 00:06 |
| rigow | not done yet | 00:06 |
| rigow | I'm typing on the phone until I get that $*%$&$ ssh-server running again | 00:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: ehhh...checking for errors from close, free, etc. adds a lot of complication for minimal gain | 00:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's already ugly checking everything else | 00:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | itsnotabigtruck: I'm just quoting man pages written by gurus better than silly me | 00:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | especially since e.g. you need to ignore EINTR from close | 00:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I agree wholeheartedly | 00:07 |
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| virtuald | itsnotabigtruck: i found out the fm transmitter has no antenna and trying to use it can do damage to the phone | 00:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: i think the damage part was speculation on the forum | 00:08 |
| virtuald | ok | 00:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | virtuald: search scrollback of this chan, not hard to find that out when I told ya | 00:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but if it indeed has no antenna (which is what doc says) then either way it's no use | 00:08 |
| virtuald | :D | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://n9-apps.com/milkytracker w00t, up to four upvoats | 00:09 |
| virtuald | o it's gone | 00:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: install milkytracker and track the planet | 00:10 |
| rigow | ok, --reinstall went well, but still the same initctl:Unknown instance | 00:10 |
| virtuald | anyway i'll see if i can get an antenna in there with help from the electronics gurus at my hackerspace | 00:10 |
| rigow | rebooting the phone | 00:10 |
| virtuald | itsnotabigtruck: :D | 00:11 |
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| virtuald | i don't have a mod or xm collection | 00:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: just load up some stuff from the mod archive then | 00:12 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | btw it can load zips directly, no need to unzip | 00:12 |
| rigow | YAY!!! | 00:14 |
| rigow | thanks a ton itsnotabigtruck, you've made a proud N9 user happy ;) | 00:15 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: that did the trick? cool | 00:16 |
| virtuald | itsnotabigtruck: i'd rather listen to streams and curse when they skip | 00:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: now load up milkytracker :p | 00:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: make sure to file an entry for your app on http://n9-apps.com/ | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Iktwo: also, when yours is done | 00:18 |
| virtuald | is there an n9-apps app? | 00:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | virtuald: heh | 00:19 |
| virtuald | streams that skip is like physical pain | 00:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no, it's just an index of apps available from other places | 00:20 |
| virtuald | can i download the top 1000 or something? any bash ninjas here? | 00:21 |
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| rigow | itsnotabigtruck: up or down? | 00:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: sideways. hm? | 00:23 |
| rigow | and concerning tracking, I'm a bit paranoid :) http://www.w3.org/2011/tracking-protection/ | 00:23 |
| rigow | is also my baby ... | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 00:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not that kind of tracker :p | 00:23 |
| rigow | ok, my ovi store doesn't work anymore since I enabled the dev mode | 00:24 |
| rigow | but N9 without dev mode is like car without engine | 00:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: what? it ought to work | 00:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | enabling dev mode doesn't disable anything else | 00:24 |
| rigow | the nokia support wrote veeeery funny emails full of cluelessness :) | 00:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what happens if you try to use the ovi store | 00:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | given that your ssh was inoperative too, maybe something funky happened when you enabled dev mode | 00:25 |
| rigow | mainly they have some very customized DNS thingy that seems to go wrong when I download from the ovi store | 00:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what actually happens | 00:26 |
| merlin1991 | the nokia support (care) gave me back an n9 without a formated partition for /home :D | 00:26 |
| rigow | lol | 00:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | merlin1991: heh | 00:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | what did you bring it there for? | 00:26 |
| merlin1991 | flat non charging battery | 00:26 |
| rigow | why does this remind me of my linux laptop back in 1997? | 00:26 |
| merlin1991 | got it back with a new battery and "flashed" | 00:26 |
| rigow | :)) | 00:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a bunch of people seem to keep bringing their phones in for flashing...that takes 5 minutes from the comfort of your own home :p | 00:26 |
| rigow | I don't dare, because I have no windows box | 00:27 |
| merlin1991 | turned out that 1 out of 2 partitions wasn't formated and harm mounted a tmpfs instead | 00:27 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: what a great website isn't it :) I install tons of apps every single time I visit them. | 00:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: there's a linux flasher too | 00:27 |
| rigow | URI? | 00:27 |
| merlin1991 | worked well enough to boot, but as soon as I tried to install stuff the shitstorm started :D | 00:27 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: and since you mentioned it, I already visited and now installing Colorss :p | 00:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/maemo-dev-env-downloads.php | 00:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | click through the eula and there's deb packages for the linux flasher | 00:28 |
| rigow | wow, I'm now at weeks of spared surfing and searching | 00:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | flasher 3.12.1 is what you need | 00:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | flasher 3.5 won't work, that's for n900 only | 00:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in order for it to be useful you need to download the firmware images, normally that's done with NAVIFIRM which is windows only | 00:29 |
| merlin1991 | there's a perl script | 00:29 |
| merlin1991 | https://gist.github.com/1636192 | 00:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just be careful what you do with flasher, it's a powerful tool that lets you do stupid things | 00:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's an even more powerful version floating around that lets you do even stupider things | 00:30 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: even more powerful version? which one? | 00:32 |
| rigow | itsnotabigtruck, thanks, but I have no debian system (I was running debian unstable and ubuntu for years, but frankly they can't do KDE) | 00:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: flasher 3.11.5 | 00:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | out of one of the pre-release one click flashers | 00:32 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: well, i think there might be a non-deb version, or you could just dump out the contents | 00:33 |
| rigow | the non-deb version is 3.5 :) | 00:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: download the deb, ar x foo.deb data.tar.gz, tar xvf data.tar.gz | 00:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | err | 00:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/myimages/ | 00:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: ah, there it is | 00:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | er, actually | 00:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the one i was thinking of is elsewhere on your site i think | 00:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | wait, there it is, under xtract22-6 | 00:39 |
| rigow | thanks itsnotabigtruck, I have some spare windows7 partition somewhere that I can boot if I can't transform the deb | 00:40 |
| * rigow is getting up to speed a bit, didn't have time to care so far... :-/ | 00:41 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: just download http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/myimages/xtract22-6/flasher | 00:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's the superflasher | 00:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1168149&postcount=6 here's some flashing steps i wrote for windows | 00:43 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | normally you would skip the --erase-user-data=secure unless you're trying to sanitize the phone (in order to reset the lock code, before selling it, before sending it to nokia, etc.) | 00:44 |
| rigow | I see | 00:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed this --erase-x-y stuff always bewildered me, as this isn't usually needed for MMC storage. Looks like cargo cult coding from NAND times where you had to erase the complete NAND prior to reflashing it | 00:46 |
| rigow | so to return to the ovi-store question: I can open the ovi store and connect, all fine, select an application, click download (tap) and then I get a "can't install, [uri] not found" | 00:47 |
| rigow | when I got the phone, the store worked | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny enough ut seems like it's exactly this --erase-user-data=secure that caused a lot of "BOOWAAAAHAHAAHAAA it doesn't flash my phone, got a brick now" | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: really? has erase-user-data=secure done any damage that can't be recovered from by following it up with another flash? | 00:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's good to have it, in case you have some data you need to make sure is gone | 00:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, it just kept flasher from working | 00:48 |
| rigow | when I enabled dev-mode, it stopped working | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: does the web browser work ok? | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pretty sure the dev mode part is a coincidence | 00:49 |
| rigow | perfect, all of them | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | grob, specifically (the built-in one) | 00:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well that's peculiar | 00:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | IIRC there been that advice to edit that --erase-x-y=foo stuff, to make OCF work | 00:50 |
| rigow | btw, it is _very_ hard to impossible to securely erase flash memory anyway, so why bother? | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | DocScrutinizer: right, not sure why the OCF script includes that | 00:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | people complain about flashing their N950s taking overnight, without secure erase it's done in no time | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | indeed | 00:51 |
| rigow | itsnotabigtruck, nokia also messed up my account, so I had to create a new one | 00:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: well, even with wear leveling a single pass erase should destroy everything except the size of the wear leveling reserved space | 00:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | also people complain about flashing destroying their user data generally | 00:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | without wear leveling a single pass erase should fully erase the flash | 00:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | but probably you can't flash HARM without also flashing /home | 00:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | according to NSA data destruction guidelines a single pass erase of flash is acceptable (of course wear leveling complicates that) | 00:52 |
| rigow | talked to Bob Thibadeau at RSA conf in London, and they maintain they can still read it out via special tools as the set of the bit is not going away, you just write into a new cell | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | rigow: you're talking about wear leveling, right | 00:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ? | 00:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | rigow: that's mostly FUD | 00:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | my understanding is that when a flash cell is erased, it's gone - but wear leveling layers mean that you can't directly erase/write a particular cell | 00:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *but* if you erase/write a 160gb storage device with 5gb of spare space, then there can't be any more than 5gb of data leftover | 00:55 |
| rigow | DocScrutinizer is it? I wasn't so sure. The argumentation we had there seemed consistent, but the elephant stampede of emails that hitchhiked through my brain since then securely erased exactly that argumentation | 00:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | bbl | 00:56 |
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| rigow | hm, have to go too, travel to FRA tomorrow, but will come back. Thanks a lot for the very very good help. Happy again now and will also get the ovi store back working soon.. | 00:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rigow: writing once to all blocks available on a MMC will destroy all the data that previously has been there, and the spare blocks (if any) aren't accessed easily and will get erased at latest when you rewrite the first few normal logical blocks a second time | 00:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | a block that got marked bad will not get erased no mater what you do | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | page, actually | 00:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | but you also can't read it out unless you know the sekrit_stuff of flash controller | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | again, if any | 01:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | also how likely is it there's a block with sensitive data that goes bad and then somebody recovers it via undocumented controller service interface after you "secure-erased" all your flash | 01:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | rather academic discussion | 01:02 |
| Jare | why would someone transfer that sensitive data in plain-text format in the first place... | 01:08 |
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| SpeedEvil | Indeed. | 01:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Crypto. It works. | 01:08 |
| Aranel | how can I stop a daemon? "initctl stop" is not working since there's no such thing like initctl on harmattan :| | 01:18 |
| SpeedEvil | stop foo? | 01:23 |
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| Aranel | SpeedEvil: sh: stop: not found | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | k | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | as root? | 01:30 |
| SpeedEvil | I was checking on my n900, n950 not on net | 01:30 |
| Aranel | SpeedEvil: yup | 01:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: but there is such a thing as initctl | 02:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's in /sbin | 02:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | if you're using meego terminal /sbin isn't in your path | 02:01 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | SpeedEvil: except that the N9 doesn't have it | 02:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's another project to do...encrypted filesystem on the N9 | 02:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but implementing it so it prompts for a password on boot would be more than a little difficult | 02:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it would be awesome to eventually have a "hardened harmattan" with communications encryption, filesystem encryption, etc. - but that would be a massive task | 02:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | encrypt the world | 02:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh | 02:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | on HARM aegis is doing that for you. You are not allowed to encrypt things that aegis doesn't consider to be worth encrypting | 02:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | simply as aegis doesn't allow you to tweak system init in any way | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's of coirse all just to protect you | 02:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | what? ... What doe you mean by "I'm not convinced of aegis doing all that only to my best intent"? Aegis and Nokia *know* what's good for you! Do you listen, sucker? | 02:24 |
| * GeneralAntilles yawns. | 02:24 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ;-P | 02:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | What are we going to do when all of our Harmattan handsets finally die? | 02:25 |
| jabis | die with the handsets? :P | 02:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | take a deep breath, then a jig dance of joy? | 02:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Hope that by that time there is something more open than harmattan. | 02:26 |
| merlin1991 | DocScrutinizer: there is an api to store stuff in aegis protected stuff | 02:27 |
| merlin1991 | ;) | 02:27 |
| jabis | well - more open than harmattan is already [x] but working with the handset is a miss | 02:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | merlin1991: mhm, and where's the api to ask for password at boottime? | 02:28 |
| jabis | merlin, sure there is, but emulation is never the same as the real thing | 02:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, and start using Android? | 02:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | nah, I'll continue using fremantle as I do now | 02:29 |
| jabis | api without specs is not an api - it's a mess (my college professor) | 02:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | DocScrutinizer, OK, what about when that dies? | 02:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | given the time span I used my previous Nokia, I'll probably die before the 3 or 4 N900 die that I may get | 02:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 02:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | merlin1991: don't trust aegis protected storage | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually aegis protected storage is protected against ... what now? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | against changing the content in a way Nokia doesn't like, it seems | 02:33 |
| jabis | the same things you'd never protect your own ass against - kinda x) | 02:33 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: thanks it worked with initctl stop apps/appname =) | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | it doesn't occur to me like trying to set up a crypted $HOME was any brilliant idea anyway | 02:35 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: but it doesnt for initctl start apps/appname, what's the difference? | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as we talk about aegis encryption | 02:35 |
| jabis | talking about a discontinued security framework is kind of non-producive, eventhough we all agree that it's useless | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Do we know it is? | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Meltimi | 02:37 |
| SpeedEvil | Or whatever it was called. | 02:37 |
| jabis | well for harmattan it is | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, only that this discontinued security framework also forbids usage of proper such frameworks like cryptfs | 02:38 |
| jabis | but the fact will never be acknowledged by the proper (nokia) officials, eventhough we've received unofficial confirmation about this like 6 months ago | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | on N900 some users actually run a system with $HOME on cryptfs. I can't see this ever flying on HARM with aegis, thanks to locked down config | 02:40 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: that's strange...are you sure your daemon config is proper? | 02:42 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw watch your power consumption with your daemon | 02:42 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: http://pastebin.com/3jCKJa75 tried to keep it simple/clean =) | 02:44 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: oh after a reboot now It doesn't start on boot, but now start apps/appname works. :| | 02:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | awesome | 02:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, i haven't done much with upstart before so i'm little help | 02:46 |
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| beford | ~seen admiral0 | 02:58 |
| infobot | admiral0 <~admiral0@adsl-ull-234-129.48-151.net24.it> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 2d 6h 37m 11s ago, saying: '?'. | 02:58 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: kill me. | 02:58 |
| Aranel | :p | 02:58 |
| Aranel | I inserted a line to prerm to rm -f that daemon, and It -ofc- removed it after a build, and I'm sitting here thinking why it doesn't work on boot :| | 02:59 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: shouldn't the upstart file be removed along with your package? | 03:01 |
| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: It should. But after clicking on add to start-up, it now *magically* started working again. | 03:02 |
| Aranel | and also /sbin/initctl start and stop too. | 03:02 |
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| Aranel | itsnotabigtruck: if I run /usr/bin/python /path/to/py.py , it won't drop it's creds, right? :) | 03:04 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: all of the interpreters are installed without aegis requests | 03:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that means that they neither add nor drop creds | 03:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so if you do accli -I, then /usr/bin/python /path/to/py.py | 03:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then py.py will run with the same creds you see from accli -I | 03:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | however if you run /path/to/py.py then it depends on whether you made an aegis request for py.py in your own package | 03:06 |
| Aranel | okay ^^ | 03:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | is there a list of apt sections that meecatalog recognizes somewhere? | 03:29 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | w00t | 04:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | calendarrr is now submitted to OBS | 04:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, actually not, it got rejected | 04:56 |
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| Sazpaimon | itsnotabigtruck, w00t still isnt here :P | 05:06 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: :p | 05:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | this time it's in for real, yay | 05:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also *submitted to apps ofr meego | 05:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i already had it working in my own OBS repo last night | 05:08 |
| Sazpaimon | i havent touched my steamchat project in a few days | 05:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :( | 05:08 |
| Sazpaimon | since Im going to need to end up rewriting a lot of it to work with libsignon and meegotouch | 05:08 |
| Sazpaimon | because i dont know how the code is laid out now | 05:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://apps.formeego.org/staging/applications/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/Other/calendar-live-icon/ | 05:13 |
| Sazpaimon | pr1.2 already has this! | 05:17 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: and? | 05:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pr1.2 isn't out yet | 05:20 |
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| Sazpaimon | itsnotabigtruck, im imitating the guy in tmo | 05:25 |
| Sazpaimon | dummy | 05:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 05:25 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | i leave for 45 mins and no one says anything | 06:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Y U NO TALK | 06:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | :p | 06:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aranel: grats on publishing your app | 06:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | er, wait, it isn't published | 06:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | can't you just upload a deb | 06:13 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: any reason you can't tighten up what you had a couple days ago and ship it? | 06:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | despite what i was saying about the ideal solution or whatever, the saying is true, shipping is better than perfect | 06:29 |
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| Sazpaimon | i guess | 06:35 |
| Sazpaimon | i just dont like the steam guard handling | 06:35 |
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| Sazpaimon | if I used signon I could avoid that | 06:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: are there any other ways to log into the steam api besides passing in username/password | 06:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm sorta surprised, generally valve wants everyone using oauth or openid or whatever they're using | 06:36 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | btw neither the apps for meego client, nor the website, seem to properly parse debian package descriptions | 06:43 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | on the website, the first line (the short description) is included together with the long description | 06:44 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and on the client, newlines are kept, and dots aren't replaced with paragraph breaks | 06:44 |
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| Sazpaimon | [23:36] <itsnotabigtruck> Sazpaimon: are there any other ways to log into the steam api besides passing in username/password | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | I dont think so | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | I looked at the official android client and it does the same thing | 07:18 |
| Sazpaimon | i think steam's OpenID thing only really returns your steam ID | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon | which, I guess, could be used for credential checking before sending the data to telepathy | 07:26 |
| Sazpaimon | in either event I'd still be better off using a signon thing for such code | 07:30 |
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| Sazpaimon | and I only think code using libaccounts-ui can properly utilize libsignon | 07:31 |
| Sazpaimon | I dont know, It's difficult to find any sample code using custom a accounts-ui interface and libsignon | 07:31 |
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| Necrosporus | Actually, is there complete kernel source code or not? | 07:42 |
| Necrosporus | Or there's only source with binary only blobs used as kernel modules? | 07:42 |
| Necrosporus | (I mean kernel modules drivers, not firmware, which is slightly different case) | 07:43 |
| Necrosporus | I mean the source for actual kernel, shipped with the device | 07:45 |
| Necrosporus | by default | 07:45 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: not sure about the modules | 07:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the kernel itself is definitely open source | 07:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | though the firmware coming out soon will have a new version and nokia seems to take their time with source code requests | 07:48 |
| Necrosporus | The source must be taken out before the actual release, or at least in same day | 07:49 |
| Necrosporus | I have possibility to buy N9 for 675 bucks | 07:50 |
| Necrosporus | I wonder if I should | 07:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's...not cheap | 07:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i hope it's at least a 64gb one | 07:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that's still not cheap | 07:50 |
| Necrosporus | nope, thats 16g | 07:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're getting ripped off | 07:50 |
| itsnotabigtruck | 16gb N9s go for around $450-500 these days | 07:51 |
| Necrosporus | Its' in local store | 07:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (that's US dollars) | 07:51 |
| Necrosporus | yeah | 07:51 |
| Sazpaimon | local store? | 07:51 |
| Sazpaimon | us dollars? | 07:51 |
| Necrosporus | yeah | 07:51 |
| Sazpaimon | what | 07:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i bought mine for $520 or so a month ago from newegg, though they don't stock the n9 anymore | 07:51 |
| Necrosporus | The store which is not internet store, but the store you can go on your two | 07:52 |
| Necrosporus | Thats my concern | 07:52 |
| Sazpaimon | is this one of those shady cell phone stores that unlock phones for stupid high prices? | 07:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: ffs, order online | 07:52 |
| Necrosporus | Its not locked initially | 07:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-Unlocked-MeeGo-Touchscreen-Black/dp/B005HA4W7K | 07:52 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah | 07:53 |
| Sazpaimon | franz` got his on amazon, dont see him complaining | 07:53 |
| Sazpaimon | right franz` | 07:53 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://negrielectronics.com/catalogsearch/result/index/?cat=96&dir=desc&order=relevance&q=n9&x=0&y=0 | 07:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Sazpaimon: there's a bunch of amazon resellers, so "got his on amazon" doesn't say much | 07:54 |
| Sazpaimon | thats true | 07:54 |
| Sazpaimon | but negri is legit | 07:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but negri is out of stock, it looks like | 07:54 |
| Necrosporus | Thats my concern | 07:54 |
| Necrosporus | Maybe I should buy one right now, or I will lose the chance? | 07:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: you said that before, what's your concern | 07:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | order on amazon! | 07:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's an awesome phone | 07:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but that "local store" is the wrong way to go | 07:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | charging $700 for an N9 today is just sleazy | 07:55 |
| Necrosporus | If I order on amazon it will go for a month | 07:56 |
| Necrosporus | also probably no warranty | 07:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, i don't expect it to get drastically cheaper no matter what | 07:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's probably no warranty no matter what, make sure to buy with a credit card that offers some sort of purchase protection | 07:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | then maybe you might be able to claim on that | 07:56 |
| Necrosporus | Maybe its better to buy in local store where I can go back any time and demand repair or replacement for no additional fee? | 07:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | NO | 07:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you already got my opinion | 07:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | don't be deterred from buying the N9 - it's awesome | 07:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but you keep circling back to this sheisty cell phone store | 07:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | forget that | 07:58 |
| Necrosporus | Yeah, you think, that warranty and instant receiving does not worth additional 200$ | 07:59 |
| Necrosporus | This time thats another store | 07:59 |
| Necrosporus | First one run out of stock | 08:00 |
| Necrosporus | but other got some phones | 08:00 |
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| Sazpaimon | i never care about warranties | 08:00 |
| Sazpaimon | after a month, if it breaks, i fix it | 08:00 |
| Necrosporus | well, if I would order via internet, I'd prefer 64G version | 08:05 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: if you're willing to drop the requisite funds, go for it | 08:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | esp with it getting significantly cheaper now | 08:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it's fairly unlikely that the phone will fail on its own within a year (i.e. qualify for warranty) | 08:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not just fairly unlikely, quite unlikely | 08:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and close to everything else can be fixed on your own | 08:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. often all they do at authorized nokia shops is flash the phone, or maybe swap a part | 08:21 |
| Sazpaimon | im happy to have paid $0 for my N9 | 08:24 |
| Sazpaimon | my mom knew I wanted one, I made some passing remarks about it a few times to her. So 2 weeks after I get laid off, she tells me to come over to her house and gives me an N9 | 08:26 |
| Sazpaimon | how she managed to get one I have no idea | 08:26 |
| Sazpaimon | or even knew where to look | 08:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh, awesome | 08:27 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah I have a pretty cool family | 08:27 |
| Sazpaimon | part of me wants to sell it for a 64GB version but I dont wanna do that because it was a gift | 08:27 |
| Sazpaimon | and I really have no use for that extra 48 gigs | 08:28 |
| Sazpaimon | unless I want to run nitdroid (I don't) | 08:29 |
| Necrosporus | so if I want to run droid, I have to get a 64 gib version? | 08:33 |
| Sazpaimon | no | 08:33 |
| Sazpaimon | im just saying that with 16 GB you wouldnt really be left with a lot of room for two OSes | 08:33 |
| Sazpaimon | im just saying that with 16 GB you wouldnt really be left with a lot of room for two OSes | 08:33 |
| Sazpaimon | erm | 08:34 |
| Sazpaimon | damn up key | 08:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the main reason you'd want 64GB is for music | 08:34 |
| Sazpaimon | conside4ring that half of it is already taken by the OS | 08:34 |
| Necrosporus | itsnotabigtruck, so I guess, I will wait a month or two, if the phone will disappear from all the local stores or keep its price, I would buy 64 g in the Internet | 08:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'd like to use my N9 as my new mp3 player, but there's not much space after os + maps + apps for gigs and gigs of music | 08:34 |
| Sazpaimon | itsnotabigtruck, i get all my music through cutetube | 08:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: keep in mind, if it starts disappearing it becomes more expensive, not less | 08:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think the price may have already bottomed out | 08:34 |
| Necrosporus | if there will be 64 phones in stores by significally lower price than buy from a local store | 08:34 |
| Sazpaimon | ebay has a nice trends chart for the N9 | 08:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | e.g. look at N900 prices right now | 08:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's not exactly dirt cheap | 08:35 |
| Necrosporus | But not more expensive than it was? | 08:35 |
| Sazpaimon | yeah it had a brief stint at like $200 | 08:35 |
| Necrosporus | Where is the chart? | 08:35 |
| Necrosporus | There's a lot of internet stores, amason, ebay and others... why this one? | 08:36 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think i have milkytracker fixed so it can be admitted into appsformeego | 08:36 |
| Necrosporus | itsnotabigtruck, I guess, its easy to find the time when the price should be cheepest | 08:37 |
| Necrosporus | It's right before the end of manufacturing | 08:37 |
| Necrosporus | Is N9 still manufactured? | 08:37 |
| Necrosporus | When it stop, its right time to buy one | 08:37 |
| Sazpaimon | Necrosporus, www.ebay.com/ctg/Nokia-N9-16GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/108839307 | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon | that shows the trend near the bottom of the page | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon | after it loads | 08:38 |
| Sazpaimon | www.ebay.com/ctg/Nokia-N9-64GB-Black-Unlocked-Smartphone-/108785942 the 64GB version is even more staggering | 08:39 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | oh yeah, the disadvantage of the 64 gig N9 is that it doesn't come in cyan | 08:50 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | and cyan is amazing | 09:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ugh, autotools | 09:12 |
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| Sazpaimon | [01:50] <itsnotabigtruck> oh yeah, the disadvantage of the 64 gig N9 is that it doesn't come in cyan | 09:23 |
| Sazpaimon | you can always buy the housing | 09:23 |
| Sazpaimon | theyre like $50 | 09:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 09:24 |
| Sazpaimon | and dismantling an N9 isnt the easiest thing | 09:24 |
| Sazpaimon | but its also not brain surgery | 09:24 |
| Sazpaimon | since there's only two major parts | 09:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=978 up to 37 votes, still no activity from nokia's end | 09:24 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 978 maj, High, ---, ext-lavanya.alamuri, ASSI, Platform SDK repository lacks APT signature - incompatible with PR1.2 | 09:24 |
| Sazpaimon | and all of the screws are accessable | 09:24 |
| Necrosporus | itsnotabigtruck, its not a disadvantage | 09:28 |
| Necrosporus | Id like black | 09:28 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: but how many other phones come in cyan? none other. | 09:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (pretend the lumia doesn't exist :p) | 09:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's so distinct | 09:31 |
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| Necrosporus | Lumia is the same, only difference is the OS | 09:33 |
| Necrosporus | I wonder if its possible to reflash | 09:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and the internals, which are different and inferior | 09:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i doubt it is | 09:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in fact the lumia 800 was outsourced while the n9 was vertically integrated in-house | 09:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so while the two phones look the same, they're probably quite incompatible on the inside | 09:34 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the lumia 800 is basically a generic winphone in an n9's shell | 09:34 |
| Necrosporus | Windows Phone is less functional than my old N73 | 09:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 09:35 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw milkytracker should be on apps for meego testing soon | 09:35 |
| Necrosporus | It can't even copy-paste text between applications | 09:35 |
| denism1 | Necrosporus: as I remember - N9 is OMAP (TI), and Lumia should be Qualcomm. And so on. I am not sure is there even something similar internally. | 09:35 |
| Necrosporus | While mine N73 can | 09:35 |
| Necrosporus | maybe | 09:35 |
| Necrosporus | However, do I need 64G? | 09:36 |
| Aard | Necrosporus: apart from case and camera chip there are not that many common components between lumia and n9 | 09:36 |
| Necrosporus | ok, so it is only looking similarly | 09:36 |
| Necrosporus | but anyways, is 16G enough? | 09:36 |
| Aard | if you look at the back you see if it's n9 or lumia -- flash leds are placed different | 09:36 |
| Necrosporus | you can also take a look of front, lumia has windows button | 09:37 |
| Aard | depends on what you want to do. my wife is happy with her 16gb n9, I'm happy with my 64gb n9 (I tend to carry lot's of movies to watch when travelling) | 09:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: if music: 64gb, otherwise: 16gb | 09:37 |
| Aard | yes, but windows button is dictated by microsoft, the flash placement not | 09:37 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you're not going to be able to fill up the other 48 gigs with anything besides music and video | 09:38 |
| Necrosporus | Why does not it support external memory? | 09:38 |
| Necrosporus | itsnotabigtruck, another OSes and apps? | 09:38 |
| Necrosporus | I guess, I'd like to try android 4 | 09:38 |
| Aard | Necrosporus: apps space is separated from user data | 09:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | form over function, i guess. though swappable memory cards do add a lot of complication to the OS | 09:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also, microsd cards tend to be slow | 09:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and can cause all kinds of problems | 09:38 |
| Necrosporus | Aard, is it possible to make a backup of entire flash from a computer? | 09:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no microsd = fewer x-factors to screw things up | 09:39 |
| Necrosporus | MicroSD let you have one having the OS for example | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon | [02:33] <Necrosporus> Lumia is the same, only difference is the OS | 09:39 |
| Necrosporus | So you can have two OSes installed without screwing up internal memory | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon | the flash is on the right of the camera | 09:39 |
| Sazpaimon | instead of above it | 09:40 |
| Necrosporus | ok, ok | 09:40 |
| Aard | Necrosporus: the part for your data is vfat which can be mounted on your computer. the other stuff is not exported, though you could throw a tar fo the application data into your user data | 09:40 |
| Necrosporus | I didnt notice | 09:40 |
| Sazpaimon | i still am convinced that that was because they didnt want people using lumia parts on an N9 | 09:40 |
| Necrosporus | Aard, that's bad? Can I format my userdata into ext3? | 09:40 |
| Necrosporus | Or ext2 | 09:41 |
| Necrosporus | or better ext4 without journal | 09:41 |
| Necrosporus | I know this scheme, its used by my android device | 09:41 |
| Necrosporus | But I do not like it as vfat is not native file system | 09:41 |
| Sazpaimon | [02:41] <Necrosporus> or better ext4 without journal | 09:42 |
| Necrosporus | It doesnt support file permissions | 09:42 |
| Sazpaimon | i dont think you can format ext4 without a journal | 09:42 |
| Aard | Necrosporus: no idea, never tried. theoretically it should be possible, but I guess the mount scripts are checksummed by aegis, so most likely it'll only work on an open mode kernel, and your device will go into malf if you turn on aegis again | 09:43 |
| Necrosporus | Sazpaimon, you can, actually, man mke2fs or man tune2fs in order to disable journal on existing filesyste | 09:43 |
| Necrosporus | -O ^has_journal | 09:43 |
| Necrosporus | If I remember it right | 09:43 |
| Sazpaimon | i know if you do that on ext3 it essentially turns it into ext2 | 09:44 |
| Sazpaimon | might not be the same with ext4 though | 09:44 |
| Aard | it works on ext3, and gives you more or less ext2. not sure if it still works with ext4 | 09:44 |
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| Necrosporus | Aard, but if the kernel source is available, it should be possible to boot with open kernel, fix scripts and also fix its checksums in aegis database | 09:44 |
| Aard | migration from ext4 to ext3 is iirc not supported, so I'd say it won't be possible | 09:45 |
| Necrosporus | Aard, it works with ext4, but it doesn't turn into another filesystem | 09:45 |
| Necrosporus | Because ext4 is not based on ext2 or ext3, its not backward compatible | 09:46 |
| Necrosporus | Its possible to disable journal on ext4, but after that if will remain ext4, just without journal, but will all the new functions | 09:47 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: of course it's based on ext3 | 09:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's just not backward compatible | 09:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, it's not reversible | 09:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | once you start modifying an ext3 part with ext4, it becomes ext4 and you can't go back | 09:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the point is, it's called ext4 because it's an increment to ext3, not something completely new | 09:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | in fact you can run an ext3 partition using the ext4 driver if you turn off certain features that break backwards compat | 09:53 |
| Necrosporus | ok, ok, but anyways, why does nokia use vfat, if there's a lot superior filesystems? | 09:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Necrosporus: because it's the only filesystem with proper support on both linux and windows | 09:55 |
| Aard | Necrosporus: because most of the people want to plug it into their windows or os x boxes? | 09:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the vfat is used for the partition that gets mounted as a mass storage device | 09:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's possible to convert the vfat to ext4 if you want, though iirc it's a little complicated | 09:55 |
| Necrosporus | Than its possible to ship windows driver on included CD | 09:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there isn't a high quality ext2/3 driver for windows, and there isn't any ext4 driver period | 09:56 |
| Necrosporus | there's some ext4 driver for windows | 09:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's not an acceptable solution | 09:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's a hack job | 09:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | actually apparently ext4 support is starting to get there | 09:57 |
| Aard | there was quite a good ext2/3 driver several years ago, not sure if it works with vista/7, though. but still, it's messy. most people just want to plug that phone in at home, at friends, etc, and copy data, without starting to mess around with drivers | 09:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | point is, the whole point of even having a mass storage device is plug and play on every platform there is | 09:57 |
| Necrosporus | If people like to plug their phone into a computer, they can install GNU/Linux instead of windows and use it freely and with more functions and possibilities | 09:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | now that's just idiotic | 09:58 |
| Aard | now you're starting to troll | 09:58 |
| Necrosporus | Even though if sound like trolling, its actually true | 09:58 |
| Necrosporus | I use GNU/Linux and have no problems | 09:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | linux is good and all, but there isn't much more obnoxious than a "Free Software" ideologue | 09:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | you should listen to yourself, eesh | 09:59 |
| Necrosporus | I guess, the choice of filesystem for the internal storage should be offered by the first start | 10:00 |
| Aard | even features more than 3 people want to have didn't make it in, so, continue dreaming ;) | 10:01 |
| Necrosporus | Free Software ideologue is only reason to chose N9 over other devices | 10:03 |
| Aard | no | 10:03 |
| Aard | my wife choose it because she likes the handling | 10:03 |
| Necrosporus | For me, yes, because Galaxy S II seem having better hardware and OS which support more applications | 10:04 |
| Necrosporus | But N9 should support usual linux apps, I guess | 10:04 |
| Necrosporus | So its more preferable | 10:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i chose it because a) aesthetics, b) hipster factor, c) easy portability of linux apps, d) smaller community = more room to explore | 10:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | as opposed to android where everything's been done already | 10:05 |
| * RST38h yawns and suggests the free software ideologue to choose ricin | 10:05 | |
| itsnotabigtruck | the current crop of android phones is extremely unsatisfying imo - too generic, too bulky, too little battery life | 10:05 |
| Aard | I'm not buying my phone to compete in benchmarks (though it seems some people are starting to do it) -- n9 hardware is not newest, but for all I'm doing more than sufficient. and I prefer the ui over android | 10:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | for example, i've needed some esoteric utilities on my N9 every once in a while | 10:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i can download the source code from debian and build it with 2 commands | 10:08 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no other mobile os lets you do that | 10:09 |
| Aard | I'm still hoping for someone to package latex ;) one of the last few things I can currently only do on my n900 | 10:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | Aard: are you sure it hasn't been already? i think tex is in the sdk repo | 10:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no idea if it works on the n9 but it works in scratchbox, i think | 10:09 |
| itsnotabigtruck | a bunch of packages have buildeps on tex to make documentation files | 10:10 |
| Aard | need to check, though I first need to get scratchbox running again -- on this box it's still using nokia internal repos | 10:10 |
| itsnotabigtruck | speaking of that - a (public) sdk repo synced to pr1.2 is desperately needed | 10:11 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i just spent a few hours earlier getting a package to build in OBS against outdated -dev packages, because nokia isn't updating the stale beta3 sdk | 10:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it's an ugly ugly mess now | 10:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | unrelated: http://apps.formeego.org/staging/applications/n9/pr1.0/harmattan/Multimedia/milkytracker/ it's up! yay | 10:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | (pardon the messy description, that's appsformeego improperly parsing the package) | 10:15 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | aard ^^^ | 10:16 |
| Aard | ? | 10:16 |
| itsnotabigtruck | re sdk | 10:17 |
| Aard | I'm not at nokia anymore (which is why I need to change all my scratchbox stuff) | 10:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ahhh, ok | 10:19 |
| itsnotabigtruck | it's just frustrating, every once in a while one of the nokia/etc. people mentions "oh yeah, gotta update my PR1.2 scratchbox" or whatnot | 10:19 |
| Aard | :) | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they stopped updating the public sdk at all, because in theory no one is supposed to code for anything >= pr1.0, because ovi store policy says so, right? | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but not everything is aimed at the ovi store, and not everything is in pr1.0 sdk packages | 10:20 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and it really shouldn't require extraordinary measures to simply build against things that are in the core firmware | 10:20 |
| Aard | wtf. samsung android phone requires sim card to check for software updates?! | 10:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they're probably filtering updates by your carrier | 10:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | assuming that everything else works w/o a sim (besides the cell phone parts of course :p) | 10:26 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | night! | 10:48 |
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| pa | by the way, does anyone know whether nokia is going to fix camera app in 1.2 or 1.3? | 11:40 |
| pa | the flash as it is now is basically unusable | 11:40 |
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| pa | from normal distances it simply doesnt pull out enough power, and from close it burns everything. i guess exposure control doesnt work properly | 11:41 |
| pa | and i dont know if it+s my phone, but it also constantly backfocuses | 11:42 |
| pa | a manual focus slider (like the zoom one) with a meter scale would be just perfect | 11:42 |
| pa | and can someone explain me how the alarm clock works? | 11:44 |
| pa | if i press any button, it stops but it doesnt turn on the screen, and the alarm just snoozes.. | 11:44 |
| pa | so it will ring again | 11:44 |
| pa | wtf? | 11:44 |
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| pa | btw i wonder wether the alarm still works if the phone is off | 11:45 |
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| Tronic | pa: Real cameras also suffer of that exposure problem and you have to manually compensate for the distance if you use flash. | 11:51 |
| Tronic | It is just worse with a tiny led flash. | 11:51 |
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| Chaz6 | I wonder if there are any flash units that can be triggered using bluetooth | 11:54 |
| pa | Tronic, in theory the phone knows the distance, as it has auto focus | 11:55 |
| pa | and i have never seen such severe problem in other phone, or even better, real cameras | 11:56 |
| Necrosporus | Is there jabber clients for N9? | 11:56 |
| pa | besides, in every web review the pays a point to N9 for having "double" led flash, but it seems to me it's weaker than many other phones single led flash | 11:57 |
| pa | e.g., galaxy s2 flash | 11:57 |
| Tronic | Chaz6: There is probably too much delay with BT. | 11:58 |
| Tronic | pa: The number of LEDs is always irrelevant but marketing people like stating such things. I've seen plenty of 9-led, 15-led or even 35-led flashlights that are far worse then my single-led torch (rated 1100 lm). | 12:01 |
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| pa | well anyway let+s hope some nokia people is so kind hearted that will fix it | 12:05 |
| Chaz6 | I want pr1.2 already | 12:05 |
| pa | and i really really hope in a manual focus feature one day | 12:05 |
| pa | it+s just annoying when you are trying to move around something, that the camera refocus all the time | 12:06 |
| pa | btw is the click noise removable? (when you shoot) | 12:06 |
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| pa | can someone suggest me how to stop the alarm???? | 12:13 |
| Tronic | pa: Usually removing the audio file from filesystem works for removing any unwanted system sounds. | 12:13 |
| pa | it keeps snoozing | 12:13 |
| Tronic | Haven't tried on N9, though. | 12:14 |
| rcg | pa: try to simply put all your volume controls on silent, i.e., the ring volume _and_ the other volume | 12:17 |
| rcg | this should silent the camera click | 12:17 |
| rcg | actually, i dunno which of these controls does the trick i just noticed that i didn't here the camera sound in that config | 12:18 |
| pa | but maybe nokia could put an option to silent it | 12:18 |
| rcg | *hear | 12:19 |
| Tronic | I some countries the law requires that shutter sound and I don't think that Nokia is going to make exceptions for those countries where it isn't required. | 12:20 |
| Tronic | *In | 12:20 |
| rcg | as said.. all volume controls to silent -> no shutter sound | 12:21 |
| Tronic | That's the reason why it is impossible to disable the sound on most devices and why firmware upgrades may make it so even if originally it was possible to disable it. | 12:21 |
| rcg | actually the shutter sound is controlled by the ring tone volume setting here | 12:22 |
| rcg | settting the ring tone volume to silent also silents the camera shutter | 12:22 |
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| pa | well.. on cameras there+s always such option | 12:31 |
| pa | i dont see why not on a phone | 12:32 |
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| Burner | hmm is in n950 some retartd wifi chip or why this make hotspot as ad-hoc mode? | 13:12 |
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| ninnnu | Aren't hotspots always ad-hoc? | 13:32 |
| MohammadAG | no, iOS does infrastructure ones | 13:44 |
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| auenf | joikuspot has always created ad-hoc hotspots | 15:21 |
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| pa | is there any sip client for harmattan yet? | 15:26 |
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| pa | does the N9 really have proximity sensors? | 15:54 |
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| jaywink | pa, yes on the right hand side of the NOKIA text, if you mean that one :) | 15:59 |
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| pa | ah! | 16:00 |
| pa | wow | 16:00 |
| jaywink | btw if anyone is interested, just released my first N9 app for testing, called Sharetus and it's a sort of bookmarklet launcher that integrates to the Share UI. see more here if interested to test: http://goo.gl/z3JYQ | 16:00 |
| pa | by the way, is there a sip client for harmattan? | 16:01 |
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| jaywink | pa, don't know about sip, use Skype myself | 16:01 |
| pa | i see :) | 16:01 |
| jaywink | skype works great on the N9, without video though | 16:01 |
| pa | do they add video on 1.2? | 16:01 |
| jaywink | I don't think anyone but Nokia knows :) | 16:02 |
| Jare | how about the built-in telepathy sofiasip? How would you switch the touch screen off during a call without a proximity sensor? Using black magic? | 16:02 |
| jaywink | I'd be surprised myself though | 16:02 |
| pa | telepathy sofiasip? built in? | 16:02 |
| pa | so there's a sip client built in? | 16:03 |
| Jare | yes there is | 16:03 |
| pa | wow tanks | 16:03 |
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| pa | didnt know about it | 16:03 |
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| Jare | it doesn't support presence though, but otherwise it's great | 16:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | WTFBBQ. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/apples-cash-creates-dangerous-temptation-2012-02-24?dist=countdown - one hundred billion dollars! | 16:30 |
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| leinir | *nods* and, worth noting, that wouldn't even make a dent in the US deficit ;) | 16:31 |
| pa | but gone Steve... it starts getting into stock dividend | 16:31 |
| pa | ;) | 16:31 |
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| SpeedEvil | If you consider that they could distribute 500 million phones free... | 16:35 |
| CissWit | I've finally got the update for 1.1 | 16:35 |
| CissWit | endly | 16:35 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | jaywink: since the PR1.2beta has been out to N950 users it's pretty well known what's in it | 17:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: as for video calling, i'm not sure but it definitely doesn't have it for skype | 17:08 |
| jaywink | itsnotabigtruck, oh yeah sorry :) haven't got N950 so kinda forget that | 17:08 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | jaywink: heh | 17:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i think it has video calling for XMPP jingle | 17:12 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not sure if they're doing 3G video calling also, though i never found that very interesting because it was never deployed in the us | 17:13 |
| itsnotabigtruck | apparently it comes with super expensive per minute rates where it is deployed, too | 17:13 |
| jaywink | yeah a bit useless since most people have data plans :P | 17:14 |
| nid0 | not true in the uk at least, video calling on most networks here is included in any bundled minutes and charged the same as a voice call otherwise | 17:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, ok | 17:17 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not sure why the carriers here never deployed it...they've launched various "official" video calling schemes (all proprietary and inferior) but completely skipped over the standard UMTS video calling | 17:18 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the future could have been now! :p | 17:18 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | btw pa: get calendarrr! http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82444 | 17:20 |
| nid0 | I used to make video calls all the time as far back as 2006 on my sony ericsson w850i | 17:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and nid0: you too :p | 17:21 |
| itsnotabigtruck | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xx4BsBr2fU | 17:22 |
| nid0 | i'd need to spend the time bothering to figure out how to properly remove dynamic calendar icon first | 17:22 |
| itsnotabigtruck | lol | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | just uninstall it from the app manager and reboot | 17:23 |
| nid0 | uninstalled it a while ago pending the functionality coming in 1.2 | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | alternatively you can skip the reboot and just kill its script | 17:23 |
| nid0 | but my calendar still updates | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the problem is that it doesn't ship with postinst/prerm scripts | 17:23 |
| itsnotabigtruck | actually i think it has postinst, just not prerm | 17:24 |
| nid0 | I havent really bothered looking into it, but i've deffo rebooted the phone since removing it - what script's it run that needs removing? | 17:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | calenderr.sh i think | 17:24 |
| itsnotabigtruck | [sic] | 17:24 |
| nid0 | ah, got it | 17:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that's strange that it was still running though | 17:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmmmm | 17:25 |
| itsnotabigtruck | upstart jobs normally get marked as conffiles, which means it may have left the upstart job in place | 17:26 |
| itsnotabigtruck | do dpkg --purge calendaricon calender-hack | 17:27 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hmm, apparently at&t wireless used to have video calling before all the mergers (that's way back) | 17:33 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and yeah, the N9 shutter sound can be muted | 17:38 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm not sure if it's actually law to make the shutter sound anywhere, though i think a few asian countries (namely japan) were pressuring phone companies to implement it anyway | 17:39 |
| itsnotabigtruck | ok, apparently it is a regulation in japan | 17:40 |
| pa | itsnotabigtruck, but why wouldnt nokia add video calling to skype? the others all have it | 17:45 |
| pa | btw thanks for the link.. it's a good example for changing icons :) | 17:46 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: because skype is all proprietary | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | they probably can't add it without skype doing so | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and who knows what's going on with that | 17:47 |
| pa | well but they are now even best friends with M$ | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | besides, which to something that isn't skype :p ok, not that practical in reality | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | *switch | 17:47 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it's something to think about | 17:48 |
| pa | why wouldnt skype agree | 17:48 |
| pa | anyway | 17:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | seems like the features people go on and on and on about are the least important ones | 17:48 |
| pa | it seems skype doesnt listen too much to the users | 17:48 |
| pa | even for the emoticons | 17:48 |
| pa | there are still those ugly new ones, while thousands of people complained | 17:49 |
| pa | and i still keep an old skype, to get rid of those ugly new smileys | 17:49 |
| pa | bloody skype | 17:49 |
| itsnotabigtruck | keep in mind, the lengths that skype goes to in order to keep anyone else from knowing much of anything about how its system works, make it quite suspicious | 17:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the other proprietary im networks are still fairly well documented and e.g. it's not like MS takes great lengths to keep anyone else from connecting to MSN Messenger | 17:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but skype, that's a whole 'nother story | 17:51 |
| pa | btw, does anyone here use vesku maps? | 17:52 |
| pa | or is there another google map client that works better? | 17:52 |
| pa | and is there something like wififofum for meego? | 17:55 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | pa: why don't you just use nokia maps | 17:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | works fairly well, has offline maps, etc. | 17:59 |
| pa | well.. yeah, i tried, the thing i needed was missing on those maps.. | 18:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that being... | 18:00 |
| rZr | lol @ http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1169932&postcount=3 | 18:07 |
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| pa | anybody using screen protectors on the n9? | 18:12 |
| rZr | what for those screen are used to break diamonds | 18:14 |
| pa | :) | 18:14 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, screen protectors don't really seem like a great idea | 18:29 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but a case that covers the screen is | 18:30 |
| pa | why so? | 18:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | problem is i can't decide on one and i'm hoping for someone who's actually used some of them to weigh in | 18:30 |
| pa | why would you cover the screen with a case? | 18:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | except no one seems to be using any except the one that comes with the phone | 18:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | to keep dust out | 18:30 |
| pa | ah | 18:30 |
| itsnotabigtruck | screen protectors do absolutely nothing about dust, and they ruin the experience | 18:30 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | you have some mushy plastic that's impossible to apply correctly sitting on top of the awesome glass layer | 18:31 |
| pa | good point | 18:31 |
| pa | what about these plugs to prevent dust getting in the audio jack or micro usb? | 18:31 |
| itsnotabigtruck | haven't really looked into that | 18:32 |
| pa | hmm maybe a neoprene case | 18:47 |
| pa | it's washable | 18:47 |
| pa | :) | 18:48 |
| itsnotabigtruck | pa: isn't that close to what comes with the n9? | 18:54 |
| itsnotabigtruck | nm, on second thought, no | 18:55 |
| pa | its like a sleeve | 18:55 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm tempted to buy one of the OEM cases, either cp-553 or cp-556 | 18:56 |
| pa | just ordered a green one, maybe i dont need plugs for dust and screen protectors | 18:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but the 553 is apparently way too tight for the N9, even though it's made specifically for it | 18:56 |
| itsnotabigtruck | no idea about the 556 | 18:57 |
| pa | ah you want nokia cases | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm afraid the 556 might be difficult to get the n9 in and out of | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also both of those are more expensive than they should be to buy in the US | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | not necessarily...i just want a half-decent case | 18:57 |
| pa | i just ordered this one: | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | there's also the noreve case and the nokia 571, which have similar designs | 18:57 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but they look like the n9 could fall out of them, and it looks like the phone would be difficult to access | 18:58 |
| pa | http://images.esellerpro.com/2108/I/933/86/TPS_121-028-013_N9_a.jpg | 18:58 |
| itsnotabigtruck | hm, not bad, just not really what i'm looking for | 18:58 |
| pa | which seems tight enough to prevent dust | 18:58 |
| pa | while still stretchy, since it's neoprene | 18:58 |
| pa | 5 pounds.. i thought i can just try and see | 18:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also argh, i hate "review" sites like this http://www.hi-techhq.com/2011/12/noreve-nokia-n9-tradition-leather-case-review/ | 18:59 |
| itsnotabigtruck | that basically exist to get somebody free gear in exchange for pimping it out on the review site | 19:00 |
| pa | that one doesnt look too much dust protecting | 19:00 |
| itsnotabigtruck | well, when closed it completely covers the screen | 19:01 |
| pa | screen yes | 19:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | seems pretty dust protecting, the problem is that you have to open it to access the phone, and when opened there's nothing but a couple tabs holding it in place | 19:01 |
| pa | audio jack no, speaker not too much | 19:01 |
| itsnotabigtruck | also the flap opens down, which seems inconvenient | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | so you're talking on the phone and you have this gigantic flap hanging down from the phone, heh | 19:02 |
| pa | heh :) | 19:02 |
| itsnotabigtruck | and i'm not worried that much about dust in the audio jack or whatnot, it's just that the screen is a dust collector | 19:02 |
| pa | they say screen protector are dust-repelling | 19:03 |
| itsnotabigtruck | yeah, but i'm already ruling those out :p | 19:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i had an awesome proporta sleeve for my e71, but that model doesn't fit the n9 very well | 19:04 |
| itsnotabigtruck | but it worked great, protected the e71 while it was in my pocket, could easily take it out and use it | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i'm a bit more worried about the N9 though, it's a lot more fragile than the e71 | 19:05 |
| pa | heh i guess | 19:05 |
| itsnotabigtruck | the e71 survived all sorts of abuse that the n9 certainly wouldn't | 19:05 |
| pa | :) | 19:06 |
| leinir | i /think/ you might be underestimating the N9 a bit... :) | 19:06 |
| pa | i got it on the floor once, already | 19:06 |
| pa | it survived so far | 19:06 |
| pa | without the shell, yet | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | leinir: the glass screen can be broken very easily and is expensive to replace, the plastic body is easily scuffed, etc. | 19:07 |
| leinir | i dropped it on the pavement when i tried to take a photo of the first frost before yule... survived that one just gone too :) | 19:07 |
| pa | actually while trying to put it in the shell :p | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i already bent my USB door, though it was able to be bent back | 19:07 |
| leinir | s/gone/fine/ | 19:07 |
| infobot | leinir meant: i dropped it on the pavement when i tried to take a photo of the first frost before yule... survived that one just fine too :) | 19:07 |
| itsnotabigtruck | i have a couple spare usb doors on order because they were cheap and i anticipate needing them :p | 19:08 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | bbl! | 19:09 |
| rhkfin | ho - found / learned how to use swype on N950 - AWESOME INPUT METHOD! | 19:14 |
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| itsnotabigtruck | rhkfin: but you have a physical keyboard... | 19:48 |
| hiemanshu_ | itsnotabigtruck: single handed typing :) | 19:51 |
| itsnotabigtruck | heh | 19:52 |
| itsnotabigtruck | btw rhkfin: get http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=82581 supposedly it works ok on N950 | 19:52 |
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| razvanpetru | hey, anyone know how I can "lock device" from an app? I've looked at QmLocks but I don't have the permission to use it | 23:38 |
| razvanpetru | tried mce::TKLockControl and origin does not allow it... | 23:38 |
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