IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2012-02-26

DocScrutinizer(<itsnotabigtruck> if iwlist bombs out, it'll return a non-zero value. check for that) A pity you have to say that. A pity most coders thing return codes are to make void a meaningful reserved word00:01
DocScrutinizerman 2 close: >>Not checking the return value of close() is a common but nevertheless serious programming error.<<00:02
rigow /sbin/initctl  restart ssh gives initctl:Unknown instance despite the fact that I have a /etc/init/ssh.conf00:03
DocScrutinizerI'd like to augment that like "not checking *any* return code is most commonly a severy programming error, unlress the coder adds a comment why (s)he thinks the return code doesn't matter in that special instance"00:03
itsnotabigtruckrigow: devel-su -c 'apt-get --reinstall install openssh-server'00:04
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DocScrutinizerof course I can do a void system("/my/nifty/helper-tool"); but not without //implicit abort when this fails, as we can't recover anyway00:05
rigowitsnotabigtruck, you just spared my 20min of RTFM :) thanks a ton :)00:05
itsnotabigtruckrigow: did it work?00:05
itsnotabigtruckbecause i have no idea if it'll work :p00:06
rigownot done yet00:06
rigowI'm typing on the phone until I get that $*%$&$ ssh-server running again00:06
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: ehhh...checking for errors from close, free, etc. adds a lot of complication for minimal gain00:06
itsnotabigtruckit's already ugly checking everything else00:06
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: I'm just quoting man pages written by gurus better than silly me00:07
itsnotabigtruckespecially since e.g. you need to ignore EINTR from close00:07
DocScrutinizerthough I agree wholeheartedly00:07
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virtualditsnotabigtruck: i found out the fm transmitter has no antenna and trying to use it can do damage to the phone00:08
itsnotabigtruckvirtuald: i think the damage part was speculation on the forum00:08
DocScrutinizervirtuald: search scrollback of this chan, not hard to find that out when I told ya00:08
itsnotabigtruckbut if it indeed has no antenna (which is what doc says) then either way it's no use00:08
itsnotabigtruck w00t, up to four upvoats00:09
virtualdo it's gone00:09
itsnotabigtruckvirtuald: install milkytracker and track the planet00:10
rigowok, --reinstall went well, but still the same initctl:Unknown instance00:10
virtualdanyway i'll see if i can get an antenna in there with help from the electronics gurus at my hackerspace00:10
rigowrebooting the phone00:10
virtualditsnotabigtruck: :D00:11
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virtualdi don't have a mod or xm collection00:11
itsnotabigtruckvirtuald: just load up some stuff from the mod archive then00:12
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itsnotabigtruckbtw it can load zips directly, no need to unzip00:12
rigowthanks a ton itsnotabigtruck, you've made a proud N9 user happy ;)00:15
itsnotabigtruckrigow: that did the trick? cool00:16
virtualditsnotabigtruck: i'd rather listen to streams and curse when they skip00:16
itsnotabigtruckrigow: now load up milkytracker :p00:16
itsnotabigtruckAranel: make sure to file an entry for your app on
itsnotabigtruckIktwo: also, when yours is done00:18
virtualdis there an n9-apps app?00:18
itsnotabigtruckvirtuald: heh00:19
virtualdstreams that skip is like physical pain00:20
itsnotabigtruckno, it's just an index of apps available from other places00:20
virtualdcan i download the top 1000 or something? any bash ninjas here?00:21
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rigowitsnotabigtruck: up or down?00:22
itsnotabigtruckrigow: sideways. hm?00:23
rigowand concerning tracking, I'm a bit paranoid :)
rigowis also my baby ...00:23
itsnotabigtrucknot that kind of tracker :p00:23
rigowok, my ovi store doesn't work anymore since I enabled the dev mode00:24
rigowbut N9 without dev mode is like car without engine00:24
itsnotabigtruckrigow: what? it ought to work00:24
itsnotabigtruckenabling dev mode doesn't disable anything else00:24
rigowthe nokia support wrote veeeery funny emails full of cluelessness :)00:25
itsnotabigtruckwhat happens if you try to use the ovi store00:25
itsnotabigtruckgiven that your ssh was inoperative too, maybe something funky happened when you enabled dev mode00:25
rigowmainly they have some very customized DNS thingy that seems to go wrong when I download from the ovi store00:25
itsnotabigtruckwhat actually happens00:26
merlin1991the nokia support (care) gave me back an n9 without a formated partition for /home :D00:26
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: heh00:26
itsnotabigtruckwhat did you bring it there for?00:26
merlin1991flat non charging battery00:26
rigowwhy does this remind me of my linux laptop back in 1997?00:26
merlin1991got it back with a new battery and "flashed"00:26
itsnotabigtrucka bunch of people seem to keep bringing their phones in for flashing...that takes 5 minutes from the comfort of your own home :p00:26
rigowI don't dare, because I have no windows box00:27
merlin1991turned out that 1 out of 2 partitions wasn't formated and harm mounted a tmpfs instead00:27
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: what a great website isn't it :) I install tons of apps every single time I visit them.00:27
itsnotabigtruckrigow: there's a linux flasher too00:27
merlin1991worked well enough to boot, but as soon as I tried to install stuff the shitstorm started :D00:27
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: and since you mentioned it, I already visited and now installing Colorss :p00:27
itsnotabigtruckclick through the eula and there's deb packages for the linux flasher00:28
rigowwow, I'm now at weeks of spared surfing and searching00:28
itsnotabigtruckflasher 3.12.1 is what you need00:28
itsnotabigtruckflasher 3.5 won't work, that's for n900 only00:28
itsnotabigtruckin order for it to be useful you need to download the firmware images, normally that's done with NAVIFIRM which is windows only00:29
merlin1991there's a perl script00:29
itsnotabigtruckjust be careful  what you do with flasher, it's a powerful tool that lets you do stupid things00:29
itsnotabigtruckthere's an even more powerful version floating around that lets you do even stupider things00:30
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: even more powerful version? which one?00:32
rigowitsnotabigtruck, thanks, but I have no debian system (I was running debian unstable and ubuntu for years, but frankly  they can't do KDE)00:32
itsnotabigtruckAranel: flasher 3.11.500:32
itsnotabigtruckout of one of the pre-release one click flashers00:32
itsnotabigtruckrigow: well, i think there might be a non-deb version, or you could just dump out the contents00:33
rigowthe non-deb version is 3.5 :)00:34
itsnotabigtruckrigow: download the deb, ar x foo.deb data.tar.gz, tar xvf data.tar.gz00:35
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: ah, there it is00:38
itsnotabigtrucker, actually00:39
itsnotabigtruckthe one i was thinking of is elsewhere on your site i think00:39
itsnotabigtruckwait, there it is, under xtract22-600:39
rigowthanks itsnotabigtruck, I have some spare windows7 partition somewhere that I can boot if I can't transform the deb00:40
* rigow is getting up to speed a bit, didn't have time to care so far... :-/00:41
itsnotabigtruckrigow: just download
itsnotabigtruckthat's the superflasher00:42
itsnotabigtruckand here's some flashing steps i wrote for windows00:43
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itsnotabigtrucknormally you would skip the --erase-user-data=secure unless you're trying to sanitize the phone (in order to reset the lock code, before selling it, before sending it to nokia, etc.)00:44
rigowI see00:45
DocScrutinizerindeed this --erase-x-y stuff always bewildered me, as this isn't usually needed for MMC storage. Looks like cargo cult coding from NAND times where you had to erase the complete NAND prior to reflashing it00:46
rigowso to return to the ovi-store question: I can open the ovi store and connect, all fine, select an application, click download (tap) and then I get a "can't install, [uri] not found"00:47
rigowwhen I got the phone, the store worked00:48
DocScrutinizerfunny enough ut seems like it's exactly this --erase-user-data=secure that caused a lot of "BOOWAAAAHAHAAHAAA it doesn't flash my phone, got a brick now"00:48
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: really? has erase-user-data=secure done any damage that can't be recovered from by following it up with another flash?00:48
itsnotabigtruckit's good to have it, in case you have some data you need to make sure is gone00:48
DocScrutinizernah, it just kept flasher from working00:48
rigowwhen I enabled dev-mode, it stopped working00:49
itsnotabigtruckrigow: does the web browser work ok?00:49
itsnotabigtruckpretty sure the dev mode part is a coincidence00:49
rigowperfect, all of them00:49
itsnotabigtruckgrob, specifically (the built-in one)00:49
itsnotabigtruckwell that's peculiar00:50
DocScrutinizerIIRC there been that advice to edit that --erase-x-y=foo stuff, to make OCF work00:50
rigowbtw, it is _very_ hard to impossible to securely erase flash memory anyway, so why bother?00:50
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: right, not sure why the OCF script includes that00:50
itsnotabigtruckpeople complain about flashing their N950s taking overnight, without secure erase it's done in no time00:51
rigowitsnotabigtruck, nokia also messed up my account, so I had to create a new one00:51
itsnotabigtruckrigow: well, even with wear leveling a single pass erase should destroy everything except the size of the wear leveling reserved space00:51
DocScrutinizeralso people complain about flashing destroying their user data generally00:51
itsnotabigtruckwithout wear leveling a single pass erase should fully erase the flash00:52
DocScrutinizerbut probably you can't flash HARM without also flashing /home00:52
itsnotabigtruckaccording to NSA data destruction guidelines a single pass erase of flash is acceptable (of course wear leveling complicates that)00:52
rigowtalked to Bob Thibadeau at RSA conf in London, and they maintain they can still read it out via special tools as the set of the bit is not going away, you just write into a new cell00:53
itsnotabigtruckrigow: you're talking about wear leveling, right00:53
DocScrutinizerrigow: that's mostly FUD00:54
itsnotabigtruckmy understanding is that when a flash cell is erased, it's gone - but wear leveling layers mean that you can't directly erase/write a particular cell00:54
itsnotabigtruck*but* if you erase/write a 160gb storage device with 5gb of spare space, then there can't be any more than 5gb of data leftover00:55
rigowDocScrutinizer is it? I wasn't so sure. The argumentation we had there seemed consistent, but the elephant stampede of emails that hitchhiked through my brain since then securely erased exactly that argumentation00:55
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rigowhm, have to go too, travel to FRA tomorrow, but will come back. Thanks a lot for the very very good help. Happy again now and will also get the ovi store back working soon..00:57
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DocScrutinizerrigow: writing once to all blocks available on a MMC will destroy all the data that previously has been there, and the spare blocks (if any) aren't accessed easily and will get erased at latest when you rewrite the first few normal logical blocks a second time00:58
DocScrutinizera block that got marked bad will not get erased no mater what you do00:59
DocScrutinizerpage, actually00:59
DocScrutinizerbut you also can't read it out unless you know the sekrit_stuff of flash controller01:00
DocScrutinizeragain, if any01:00
DocScrutinizeralso how likely is it there's a block with sensitive data that goes bad and then somebody recovers it via undocumented controller service interface after you "secure-erased" all your flash01:02
DocScrutinizerrather academic discussion01:02
Jarewhy would someone transfer that sensitive data in plain-text format in the first place...01:08
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SpeedEvilCrypto. It works.01:08
Aranelhow can I stop a daemon? "initctl stop" is not working since there's no such thing like initctl on harmattan :|01:18
SpeedEvilstop foo?01:23
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AranelSpeedEvil: sh: stop: not found01:30
SpeedEvilas root?01:30
SpeedEvilI was checking on my n900, n950 not on net01:30
AranelSpeedEvil: yup01:30
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itsnotabigtruckAranel: but there is such a thing as initctl02:00
itsnotabigtruckit's in /sbin02:00
itsnotabigtruckif you're using meego terminal /sbin isn't in your path02:01
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itsnotabigtruckSpeedEvil: except that the N9 doesn't have it02:10
itsnotabigtruckthat's another project to do...encrypted filesystem on the N902:10
itsnotabigtruckbut implementing it so it prompts for a password on boot would be more than a little difficult02:11
itsnotabigtruckit would be awesome to eventually have a "hardened harmattan" with communications encryption, filesystem encryption, etc. - but that would be a massive task02:12
itsnotabigtruckencrypt the world02:13
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DocScrutinizeron HARM aegis is doing that for you. You are not allowed to encrypt things that aegis doesn't consider to be worth encrypting02:21
DocScrutinizersimply as aegis doesn't allow you to tweak system init in any way02:22
DocScrutinizerthat's of coirse all just to protect you02:22
DocScrutinizerwhat? ... What doe you mean by "I'm not convinced of aegis doing all that only to my best intent"? Aegis and Nokia *know* what's good for you! Do you listen, sucker?02:24
* GeneralAntilles yawns.02:24
GeneralAntillesWhat are we going to do when all of our Harmattan handsets finally die?02:25
jabisdie with the handsets? :P02:25
DocScrutinizertake a deep breath, then a jig dance of joy?02:26
SpeedEvilHope that by that time there is something more open than harmattan.02:26
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: there is an api to store stuff in aegis protected stuff02:27
jabiswell - more open than harmattan is already [x] but working with the handset is a miss02:27
DocScrutinizermerlin1991: mhm, and where's the api to ask for password at boottime?02:28
jabismerlin, sure there is, but emulation is never the same as the real thing02:28
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, and start using Android?02:28
DocScrutinizernah, I'll continue using fremantle as I do now02:29
jabisapi without specs is not an api - it's a mess (my college professor)02:29
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, OK, what about when that dies?02:29
DocScrutinizergiven the time span I used my previous Nokia, I'll probably die before the 3 or 4 N900 die that I may get02:30
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: don't trust aegis protected storage02:32
DocScrutinizeractually aegis protected storage is protected against ... what now?02:33
DocScrutinizeragainst changing the content in a way Nokia doesn't like, it seems02:33
jabisthe same things you'd never protect your own ass against - kinda x)02:33
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: thanks it worked with initctl stop apps/appname =)02:34
DocScrutinizerit doesn't occur to me like trying to set up a crypted $HOME was any brilliant idea anyway02:35
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: but it doesnt for initctl start apps/appname, what's the difference?02:35
DocScrutinizeras long as we talk about aegis encryption02:35
jabistalking about a discontinued security framework is kind of non-producive, eventhough we all agree that it's useless02:37
SpeedEvilDo we know it is?02:37
SpeedEvilOr whatever it was called.02:37
jabiswell for harmattan it is02:38
DocScrutinizerwell, only that this discontinued security framework also forbids usage of proper such frameworks like cryptfs02:38
jabisbut the fact will never be acknowledged by the proper (nokia) officials, eventhough we've received unofficial confirmation about this like 6 months ago02:40
DocScrutinizeron N900 some users actually run a system with $HOME on cryptfs. I can't see this ever flying on HARM with aegis, thanks to locked down config02:40
itsnotabigtruckAranel: that's strange...are you sure your daemon config is proper?02:42
itsnotabigtruckbtw watch your power consumption with your daemon02:42
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: tried to keep it simple/clean =)02:44
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: oh after a reboot now It doesn't start on boot, but now start apps/appname works. :|02:46
itsnotabigtruckwell, i haven't done much with upstart before so i'm little help02:46
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beford~seen admiral002:58
infobotadmiral0 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 2d 6h 37m 11s ago, saying: '?'.02:58
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: kill me.02:58
AranelI inserted a line to prerm to rm -f that daemon, and It -ofc- removed it after a build, and I'm sitting here thinking why it doesn't work on boot :|02:59
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itsnotabigtruckAranel: shouldn't the upstart file be removed along with your package?03:01
Aranelitsnotabigtruck: It should. But after clicking on add to start-up, it now *magically* started working again.03:02
Araneland also /sbin/initctl start and stop too.03:02
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Aranelitsnotabigtruck: if I run /usr/bin/python /path/to/ , it won't drop it's creds, right? :)03:04
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itsnotabigtruckAranel: all of the interpreters are installed without aegis requests03:05
itsnotabigtruckthat means that they neither add nor drop creds03:05
itsnotabigtruckso if you do accli -I, then /usr/bin/python /path/to/py.py03:06
itsnotabigtruckthen will run with the same creds you see from accli -I03:06
itsnotabigtruckhowever if you run /path/to/ then it depends on whether you made an aegis request for in your own package03:06
Aranelokay ^^03:11
itsnotabigtruckis there a list of apt sections that meecatalog recognizes somewhere?03:29
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itsnotabigtruckcalendarrr is now submitted to OBS04:54
itsnotabigtruckwell, actually not, it got rejected04:56
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Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, w00t still isnt here :P05:06
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: :p05:07
itsnotabigtruckthis time it's in for real, yay05:07
itsnotabigtruckalso *submitted to apps ofr meego05:07
itsnotabigtrucki already had it working in my own OBS repo last night05:08
Sazpaimoni havent touched my steamchat project in a few days05:08
Sazpaimonsince Im going to need to end up rewriting a lot of it to work with libsignon and meegotouch05:08
Sazpaimonbecause i dont know how the code is laid out now05:08
Sazpaimonpr1.2 already has this!05:17
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itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: and?05:20
itsnotabigtruckpr1.2 isn't out yet05:20
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Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, im imitating the guy in tmo05:25
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itsnotabigtrucki leave for 45 mins and no one says anything06:11
itsnotabigtruckY U NO TALK06:11
itsnotabigtruckAranel: grats on publishing your app06:12
itsnotabigtrucker, wait, it isn't published06:13
itsnotabigtruckcan't you just upload a deb06:13
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itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: any reason you can't tighten up what you had a couple days ago and ship it?06:29
itsnotabigtruckdespite what i was saying about the ideal solution or whatever, the saying is true, shipping is better than perfect06:29
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Sazpaimoni guess06:35
Sazpaimoni just dont like the steam guard handling06:35
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Sazpaimonif I used signon I could avoid that06:35
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: are there any other ways to log into the steam api besides passing in username/password06:36
itsnotabigtrucki'm sorta surprised, generally valve wants everyone using oauth or openid or whatever they're using06:36
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itsnotabigtruckbtw neither the apps for meego client, nor the website, seem to properly parse debian package descriptions06:43
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itsnotabigtruckon the website, the first line (the short description) is included together with the long description06:44
itsnotabigtruckand on the client, newlines are kept, and dots aren't replaced with paragraph breaks06:44
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Sazpaimon[23:36] <itsnotabigtruck> Sazpaimon: are there any other ways to log into the steam api besides passing in username/password07:18
SazpaimonI dont think so07:18
SazpaimonI looked at the official android client and it does the same thing07:18
Sazpaimoni think steam's OpenID thing only really returns your steam ID07:26
Sazpaimonwhich, I guess, could be used for credential checking before sending the data to telepathy07:26
Sazpaimonin either event I'd still be better off using a signon thing for such code07:30
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Sazpaimonand I only think code using libaccounts-ui can properly utilize libsignon07:31
SazpaimonI dont know, It's difficult to find any sample code using custom a accounts-ui interface and libsignon07:31
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NecrosporusActually, is there complete kernel source code or not?07:42
NecrosporusOr there's only source with binary only blobs used as kernel modules?07:42
Necrosporus(I mean kernel modules drivers, not firmware, which is slightly different case)07:43
NecrosporusI mean the source for actual kernel, shipped with the device07:45
Necrosporusby default07:45
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: not sure about the modules07:47
itsnotabigtruckthe kernel itself is definitely open source07:48
itsnotabigtruckthough the firmware coming out soon will have a new version and nokia seems to take their time with source code requests07:48
NecrosporusThe source must be taken out before the actual release, or at least in same day07:49
NecrosporusI have possibility to buy N9 for 675 bucks07:50
NecrosporusI wonder if I should07:50
itsnotabigtruckthat's...not cheap07:50
itsnotabigtrucki hope it's at least a 64gb one07:50
itsnotabigtruckbut that's still not cheap07:50
Necrosporusnope, thats 16g07:50
itsnotabigtruckyou're getting ripped off07:50
itsnotabigtruck16gb N9s go for around $450-500 these days07:51
NecrosporusIts' in local store07:51
itsnotabigtruck(that's US dollars)07:51
Sazpaimonlocal store?07:51
Sazpaimonus dollars?07:51
itsnotabigtrucki bought mine for $520 or so a month ago from newegg, though they don't stock the n9 anymore07:51
NecrosporusThe store which is not internet store, but the store you can go on your two07:52
NecrosporusThats my concern07:52
Sazpaimonis this one of those shady cell phone stores that unlock phones for stupid high prices?07:52
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: ffs, order online07:52
NecrosporusIts not locked initially07:52
Sazpaimonfranz` got his on amazon, dont see him complaining07:53
Sazpaimonright franz`07:53
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: there's a bunch of amazon resellers, so "got his on amazon" doesn't say much07:54
Sazpaimonthats true07:54
Sazpaimonbut negri is legit07:54
itsnotabigtruckbut negri is out of stock, it looks like07:54
NecrosporusThats my concern07:54
NecrosporusMaybe I should buy one right now, or I will lose the chance?07:55
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: you said that before, what's your concern07:55
itsnotabigtruckorder on amazon!07:55
itsnotabigtruckit's an awesome phone07:55
itsnotabigtruckbut that "local store" is the wrong way to go07:55
itsnotabigtruckcharging $700 for an N9 today is just sleazy07:55
NecrosporusIf I order on amazon it will go for a month07:56
Necrosporusalso probably no warranty07:56
itsnotabigtruckwell, i don't expect it to get drastically cheaper no matter what07:56
itsnotabigtruckthere's probably no warranty no matter what, make sure to buy with a credit card that offers some sort of purchase protection07:56
itsnotabigtruckthen maybe you might be able to claim on that07:56
NecrosporusMaybe its better to buy in local store where I can go back any time and demand repair or replacement for no additional fee?07:57
itsnotabigtruckyou already got my opinion07:58
itsnotabigtruckdon't be deterred from buying the N9 - it's awesome07:58
itsnotabigtruckbut you keep circling back to this sheisty cell phone store07:58
itsnotabigtruckforget that07:58
NecrosporusYeah, you think, that warranty and instant receiving does not worth additional 200$07:59
NecrosporusThis time thats another store07:59
NecrosporusFirst one run out of stock08:00
Necrosporusbut other got some phones08:00
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Sazpaimoni never care about warranties08:00
Sazpaimonafter a month, if it breaks, i fix it08:00
Necrosporuswell, if I would order via internet, I'd prefer 64G version08:05
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itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: if you're willing to drop the requisite funds, go for it08:18
itsnotabigtruckesp with it getting significantly cheaper now08:19
itsnotabigtruckand it's fairly unlikely that the phone will fail on its own within a year (i.e. qualify for warranty)08:20
itsnotabigtrucknot just fairly unlikely, quite unlikely08:20
itsnotabigtruckand close to everything else can be fixed on your own08:20
itsnotabigtrucke.g. often all they do at authorized nokia shops is flash the phone, or maybe swap a part08:21
Sazpaimonim happy to have paid $0 for my N908:24
Sazpaimonmy mom knew I wanted one, I made some passing remarks about it a few times to her. So 2 weeks after I get laid off, she tells me to come over to her house and gives me an N908:26
Sazpaimonhow she managed to get one I have no idea08:26
Sazpaimonor even knew where to look08:26
itsnotabigtruckheh, awesome08:27
Sazpaimonyeah I have a pretty cool family08:27
Sazpaimonpart of me wants to sell it for a 64GB version but I dont wanna do that because it was a gift08:27
Sazpaimonand I really have no use for that extra 48 gigs08:28
Sazpaimonunless I want to run nitdroid (I don't)08:29
Necrosporusso if I want to run droid, I have to get a 64 gib version?08:33
Sazpaimonim just saying that with 16 GB you wouldnt really be left with a lot of room for two OSes08:33
Sazpaimonim just saying that with 16 GB you wouldnt really be left with a lot of room for two OSes08:33
Sazpaimondamn up key08:34
itsnotabigtruckthe main reason you'd want 64GB is for music08:34
Sazpaimonconside4ring that half of it is already taken by the OS08:34
Necrosporusitsnotabigtruck, so I guess, I will wait a month or two, if the phone will disappear from all the local stores or keep its price, I would buy 64 g in the Internet08:34
itsnotabigtrucki'd like to use my N9 as my new mp3 player, but there's not much space after os + maps + apps for gigs and gigs of music08:34
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, i get all my music through cutetube08:34
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: keep in mind, if it starts disappearing it becomes more expensive, not less08:34
itsnotabigtrucki think the price may have already bottomed out08:34
Necrosporusif there will be 64 phones in stores by significally lower price than buy from a local store08:34
Sazpaimonebay has a nice trends chart for the N908:35
itsnotabigtrucke.g. look at N900 prices right now08:35
itsnotabigtruckit's not exactly dirt cheap08:35
NecrosporusBut not more expensive than it was?08:35
Sazpaimonyeah it had a brief stint at like $20008:35
NecrosporusWhere is the chart?08:35
NecrosporusThere's a lot of internet stores, amason, ebay and others... why this one?08:36
itsnotabigtrucki think i have milkytracker fixed so it can be admitted into appsformeego08:36
Necrosporusitsnotabigtruck, I guess, its easy to find the time when the price should be cheepest08:37
NecrosporusIt's right before the end of manufacturing08:37
NecrosporusIs N9 still manufactured?08:37
NecrosporusWhen it stop, its right time to buy one08:37
Sazpaimonthat shows the trend near the bottom of the page08:38
Sazpaimonafter it loads08:38 the 64GB version is even more staggering08:39
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itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, the disadvantage of the 64 gig N9 is that it doesn't come in cyan08:50
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itsnotabigtruckand cyan is amazing09:11
itsnotabigtruckugh, autotools09:12
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Sazpaimon[01:50] <itsnotabigtruck> oh yeah, the disadvantage of the 64 gig N9 is that it doesn't come in cyan09:23
Sazpaimonyou can always buy the housing09:23
Sazpaimontheyre like $5009:23
Sazpaimonand dismantling an N9 isnt the easiest thing09:24
Sazpaimonbut its also not brain surgery09:24
Sazpaimonsince there's only two major parts09:24
itsnotabigtruck up to 37 votes, still no activity from nokia's end09:24
_MeeGoBot_Bug 978 maj, High, ---, ext-lavanya.alamuri, ASSI, Platform SDK repository lacks APT signature - incompatible with PR1.209:24
Sazpaimonand all of the screws are accessable09:24
Necrosporusitsnotabigtruck, its not a disadvantage09:28
NecrosporusId like black09:28
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: but how many other phones come in cyan? none other.09:30
itsnotabigtruck(pretend the lumia doesn't exist :p)09:30
itsnotabigtruckit's so distinct09:31
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NecrosporusLumia is the same, only difference is the OS09:33
NecrosporusI wonder if its possible to reflash09:33
itsnotabigtruckand the internals, which are different and inferior09:33
itsnotabigtrucki doubt it is09:33
itsnotabigtruckin fact the lumia 800 was outsourced while the n9 was vertically integrated in-house09:34
itsnotabigtruckso while the two phones look the same, they're probably quite incompatible on the inside09:34
itsnotabigtruckthe lumia 800 is basically a generic winphone in an n9's shell09:34
NecrosporusWindows Phone is less functional than my old N7309:35
itsnotabigtruckbtw milkytracker should be on apps for meego testing soon09:35
NecrosporusIt can't even copy-paste text between applications09:35
denism1Necrosporus: as I remember - N9 is OMAP (TI), and Lumia should be Qualcomm. And so on. I am not sure is there even something similar internally.09:35
NecrosporusWhile mine N73 can09:35
NecrosporusHowever, do I need 64G?09:36
AardNecrosporus: apart from case and camera chip there are not that many common components between lumia and n909:36
Necrosporusok, so it is only looking similarly09:36
Necrosporusbut anyways, is 16G enough?09:36
Aardif you look at the back you see if it's n9 or lumia -- flash leds are placed different09:36
Necrosporusyou can also take a look of front, lumia has windows button09:37
Aarddepends on what you want to do. my wife is happy with her 16gb n9, I'm happy with my 64gb n9 (I tend to carry lot's of movies to watch when travelling)09:37
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: if music: 64gb, otherwise: 16gb09:37
Aardyes, but windows button is dictated by microsoft, the flash placement not09:37
itsnotabigtruckyou're not going to be able to fill up the other 48 gigs with anything besides music and video09:38
NecrosporusWhy does not it support external memory?09:38
Necrosporusitsnotabigtruck, another OSes and apps?09:38
NecrosporusI guess, I'd like to try android 409:38
AardNecrosporus: apps space is separated from user data09:38
itsnotabigtruckform over function, i guess. though swappable memory cards do add a lot of complication to the OS09:38
itsnotabigtruckalso, microsd cards tend to be slow09:38
itsnotabigtruckand can cause all kinds of problems09:38
NecrosporusAard, is it possible to make a backup of entire flash from a computer?09:39
itsnotabigtruckno microsd = fewer x-factors to screw things up09:39
NecrosporusMicroSD let you have one having the OS for example09:39
Sazpaimon[02:33] <Necrosporus> Lumia is the same, only difference is the OS09:39
NecrosporusSo you can have two OSes installed without screwing up internal memory09:39
Sazpaimonthe flash is on the right of the camera09:39
Sazpaimoninstead of above it09:40
Necrosporusok, ok09:40
AardNecrosporus: the part for your data is vfat which can be mounted on your computer. the other stuff is not exported, though you could throw a tar fo the application data into your user data09:40
NecrosporusI didnt notice09:40
Sazpaimoni still am convinced that that was because they didnt want people using lumia parts on an N909:40
NecrosporusAard, that's bad? Can I format my userdata into ext3?09:40
NecrosporusOr ext209:41
Necrosporusor better ext4 without journal09:41
NecrosporusI know this scheme, its used by my android device09:41
NecrosporusBut I do not like it as vfat is not native file system09:41
Sazpaimon[02:41] <Necrosporus> or better ext4 without journal09:42
NecrosporusIt doesnt support file permissions09:42
Sazpaimoni dont think you can format ext4 without a journal09:42
AardNecrosporus: no idea, never tried. theoretically it should be possible, but I guess the mount scripts are checksummed by aegis, so most likely it'll only work on an open mode kernel, and your device will go into malf if you turn on aegis again09:43
NecrosporusSazpaimon, you can, actually, man mke2fs or man tune2fs in order to disable journal on existing filesyste09:43
Necrosporus-O ^has_journal09:43
NecrosporusIf I remember it right09:43
Sazpaimoni know if you do that on ext3 it essentially turns it into ext209:44
Sazpaimonmight not be the same with ext4 though09:44
Aardit works on ext3, and gives you more or less ext2. not sure if it still works with ext409:44
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NecrosporusAard, but if the kernel source is available, it should be possible to boot with open kernel, fix scripts and also fix its checksums in aegis database09:44
Aardmigration from ext4 to ext3 is iirc not supported, so I'd say it won't be possible09:45
NecrosporusAard, it works with ext4, but it doesn't turn into another filesystem09:45
NecrosporusBecause ext4 is not based on ext2 or ext3, its not backward compatible09:46
NecrosporusIts possible to disable journal on ext4, but after that if will remain ext4, just without journal, but will all the new functions09:47
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itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: of course it's based on ext309:51
itsnotabigtruckit's just not backward compatible09:51
itsnotabigtruckwell, it's not reversible09:51
itsnotabigtruckonce you start modifying an ext3 part with ext4, it becomes ext4 and you can't go back09:52
itsnotabigtruckthe point is, it's called ext4 because it's an increment to ext3, not something completely new09:52
itsnotabigtruckin fact you can run an ext3 partition using the ext4 driver if you turn off certain features that break backwards compat09:53
Necrosporusok, ok, but anyways, why does nokia use vfat, if there's a lot superior filesystems?09:54
itsnotabigtruckNecrosporus: because it's the only filesystem with proper support on both linux and windows09:55
AardNecrosporus: because most of the people want to plug it into their windows or os x boxes?09:55
itsnotabigtruckthe vfat is used for the partition that gets mounted as a mass storage device09:55
itsnotabigtruckit's possible to convert the vfat to ext4 if you want, though iirc it's a little complicated09:55
NecrosporusThan its possible to ship windows driver on included CD09:56
itsnotabigtruckthere isn't a high quality ext2/3 driver for windows, and there isn't any ext4 driver period09:56
Necrosporusthere's some ext4 driver for windows09:56
itsnotabigtruckthat's not an acceptable solution09:56
itsnotabigtruckthat's a hack job09:56
itsnotabigtruckactually apparently ext4 support is starting to get there09:57
Aardthere was quite a good ext2/3 driver several years ago, not sure if it works with vista/7, though. but still, it's messy. most people just want to plug that phone in at home, at friends, etc, and copy data, without starting to mess around with drivers09:57
itsnotabigtruckpoint is, the whole point of even having a mass storage device is plug and play on every platform there is09:57
NecrosporusIf people like to plug their phone into a computer, they can install GNU/Linux instead of windows and use it freely and with more functions and possibilities09:57
itsnotabigtrucknow that's just idiotic09:58
Aardnow you're starting to troll09:58
NecrosporusEven though if sound like trolling, its actually true09:58
NecrosporusI use GNU/Linux and have no problems09:58
itsnotabigtrucklinux is good and all, but there isn't much more obnoxious than a "Free Software" ideologue09:59
itsnotabigtruckyou should listen to yourself, eesh09:59
NecrosporusI guess, the choice of filesystem for the internal storage should be offered by the first start10:00
Aardeven features more than 3 people want to have didn't make it in, so, continue dreaming ;)10:01
NecrosporusFree Software ideologue is only reason to chose N9 over other devices10:03
Aardmy wife choose it because she likes the handling10:03
NecrosporusFor me, yes, because Galaxy S II seem having better hardware and OS which support more applications10:04
NecrosporusBut N9 should support usual linux apps, I guess10:04
NecrosporusSo its more preferable10:04
itsnotabigtrucki chose it because a) aesthetics, b) hipster factor, c) easy portability of linux apps, d) smaller community = more room to explore10:04
itsnotabigtruckas opposed to android where everything's been done already10:05
* RST38h yawns and suggests the free software ideologue to choose ricin10:05
itsnotabigtruckthe current crop of android phones is extremely unsatisfying imo - too generic, too bulky, too little battery life10:05
AardI'm not buying my phone to compete in benchmarks (though it seems some people are starting to do it) -- n9 hardware is not newest, but for all I'm doing more than sufficient. and I prefer the ui over android10:05
itsnotabigtruckfor example, i've needed some esoteric utilities on my N9 every once in a while10:08
itsnotabigtrucki can download the source code from debian and build it with 2 commands10:08
itsnotabigtruckno other mobile os lets you do that10:09
AardI'm still hoping for someone to package latex ;) one of the last few things I can currently only do on my n90010:09
itsnotabigtruckAard: are you sure it hasn't been already? i think tex is in the sdk repo10:09
itsnotabigtruckno idea if it works on the n9 but it works in scratchbox, i think10:09
itsnotabigtrucka bunch of packages have buildeps on tex to make documentation files10:10
Aardneed to check, though I first need to get scratchbox running again -- on this box it's still using nokia internal repos10:10
itsnotabigtruckspeaking of that - a (public) sdk repo synced to pr1.2 is desperately needed10:11
itsnotabigtrucki just spent a few hours earlier getting a package to build in OBS against outdated -dev packages, because nokia isn't updating the stale beta3 sdk10:12
itsnotabigtruckand it's an ugly ugly mess now10:12
itsnotabigtruckunrelated: it's up! yay10:14
itsnotabigtruck(pardon the messy description, that's appsformeego improperly parsing the package)10:15
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itsnotabigtruckaard ^^^10:16
itsnotabigtruckre sdk10:17
AardI'm not at nokia anymore (which is why I need to change all my scratchbox stuff)10:17
itsnotabigtruckahhh, ok10:19
itsnotabigtruckit's just frustrating, every once in a while one of the nokia/etc. people mentions "oh yeah, gotta update my PR1.2 scratchbox" or whatnot10:19
itsnotabigtruckbut they stopped updating the public sdk at all, because in theory no one is supposed to code for anything >= pr1.0, because ovi store policy says so, right?10:20
itsnotabigtruckbut not everything is aimed at the ovi store, and not everything is in pr1.0 sdk packages10:20
itsnotabigtruckand it really shouldn't require extraordinary measures to simply build against things that are in the core firmware10:20
Aardwtf. samsung android phone requires sim card to check for software updates?!10:23
itsnotabigtruckthey're probably filtering updates by your carrier10:26
itsnotabigtruckassuming that everything else works w/o a sim (besides the cell phone parts of course :p)10:26
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paby the way, does anyone know whether nokia is going to fix camera app in 1.2 or 1.3?11:40
pathe flash as it is now is basically unusable11:40
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pafrom normal distances it simply doesnt pull out enough power, and from close it burns everything. i guess exposure control doesnt work properly11:41
paand i dont know if it+s my phone, but it also constantly backfocuses11:42
paa manual focus slider (like the zoom one) with a meter scale would be just perfect11:42
paand can someone explain me how the alarm clock works?11:44
paif i press any button, it stops but it doesnt turn on the screen, and the alarm just snoozes..11:44
paso it will ring again11:44
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pabtw i wonder wether the alarm still works if the phone is off11:45
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Tronicpa: Real cameras also suffer of that exposure problem and you have to manually compensate for the distance if you use flash.11:51
TronicIt is just worse with a tiny led flash.11:51
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Chaz6I wonder if there are any flash units that can be triggered using bluetooth11:54
paTronic, in theory the phone knows the distance, as it has auto focus11:55
paand i have never seen such severe problem in other phone, or even better, real cameras11:56
NecrosporusIs there jabber clients for N9?11:56
pabesides, in every web review the pays a point to N9 for having "double" led flash, but it seems to me it's weaker than many other phones single led flash11:57
pae.g., galaxy s2 flash11:57
TronicChaz6: There is probably too much delay with BT.11:58
Tronicpa: The number of LEDs is always irrelevant but marketing people like stating such things. I've seen plenty of 9-led, 15-led or even 35-led flashlights that are far worse then my single-led torch (rated 1100 lm).12:01
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pawell anyway let+s hope some nokia people is so kind hearted that will fix it12:05
Chaz6I want pr1.2 already12:05
paand i really really hope in a manual focus feature one day12:05
pait+s just annoying when you are trying to move around something, that the camera refocus all the time12:06
pabtw is the click noise removable? (when you shoot)12:06
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pacan someone suggest me how to stop the alarm????12:13
Tronicpa: Usually removing the audio file from filesystem works for removing any unwanted system sounds.12:13
pait keeps snoozing12:13
TronicHaven't tried on N9, though.12:14
rcgpa: try to simply put all your volume controls on silent, i.e., the ring volume _and_ the other volume12:17
rcgthis should silent the camera click12:17
rcgactually, i dunno which of these controls does the trick i just noticed that i didn't here the camera sound in that config12:18
pabut maybe nokia could put an option to silent it12:18
TronicI some countries the law requires that shutter sound and I don't think that Nokia is going to make exceptions for those countries where it isn't required.12:20
rcgas said.. all volume controls to silent -> no shutter sound12:21
TronicThat's the reason why it is impossible to disable the sound on most devices and why firmware upgrades may make it so even if originally it was possible to disable it.12:21
rcgactually the shutter sound is controlled by the ring tone volume setting here12:22
rcgsettting the ring tone volume to silent also silents the camera shutter12:22
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pawell.. on cameras there+s always such option12:31
pai dont see why not on a phone12:32
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Burnerhmm is in n950 some retartd wifi chip or why this make hotspot as ad-hoc mode?13:12
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ninnnuAren't hotspots always ad-hoc?13:32
MohammadAGno, iOS does infrastructure ones13:44
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auenfjoikuspot has always created ad-hoc hotspots15:21
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pais there any sip client for harmattan yet?15:26
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padoes the N9 really have proximity sensors?15:54
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jaywinkpa, yes on the right hand side of the NOKIA text, if you mean that one :)15:59
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jaywinkbtw if anyone is interested, just released my first N9 app for testing, called Sharetus and it's a sort of bookmarklet launcher that integrates to the Share UI. see more here if interested to test:
paby the way, is there a sip client for harmattan?16:01
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jaywinkpa, don't know about sip, use Skype myself16:01
pai see :)16:01
jaywinkskype works great on the N9, without video though16:01
pado they add video on 1.2?16:01
jaywinkI don't think anyone but Nokia knows :)16:02
Jarehow about the built-in telepathy sofiasip? How would you switch the touch screen off during a call without a proximity sensor? Using black magic?16:02
jaywinkI'd be surprised myself though16:02
patelepathy sofiasip? built in?16:02
paso there's a sip client built in?16:03
Jareyes there is16:03
pawow tanks16:03
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padidnt know about it16:03
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Jareit doesn't support presence though, but otherwise it's great16:03
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SpeedEvilWTFBBQ. - one hundred billion dollars!16:30
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leinir*nods* and, worth noting, that wouldn't even make a dent in the US deficit ;)16:31
pabut gone Steve... it starts getting into stock dividend16:31
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SpeedEvilIf you consider that they could distribute 500 million phones free...16:35
CissWitI've finally got the update for 1.116:35
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itsnotabigtruckjaywink: since the PR1.2beta has been out to N950 users it's pretty well known what's in it17:07
itsnotabigtruckpa: as for video calling, i'm not sure but it definitely doesn't have it for skype17:08
jaywinkitsnotabigtruck, oh yeah sorry :) haven't got N950 so kinda forget that17:08
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itsnotabigtruckjaywink: heh17:12
itsnotabigtrucki think it has video calling for XMPP jingle17:12
itsnotabigtrucknot sure if they're doing 3G video calling also, though i never found that very interesting because it was never deployed in the us17:13
itsnotabigtruckapparently it comes with super expensive per minute rates where it is deployed, too17:13
jaywinkyeah a bit useless since most people have data plans :P17:14
nid0not true in the uk at least, video calling on most networks here is included in any bundled minutes and charged the same as a voice call otherwise17:17
itsnotabigtruckhm, ok17:17
itsnotabigtrucknot sure why the carriers here never deployed it...they've launched various "official" video calling schemes (all proprietary and inferior) but completely skipped over the standard UMTS video calling17:18
itsnotabigtruckthe future could have been now! :p17:18
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itsnotabigtruckbtw pa: get calendarrr!
nid0I used to make video calls all the time as far back as 2006 on my sony ericsson w850i17:21
itsnotabigtruckand nid0: you too :p17:21
nid0i'd need to spend the time bothering to figure out how to properly remove dynamic calendar icon first17:22
itsnotabigtruckjust uninstall it from the app manager and reboot17:23
nid0uninstalled it a while ago pending the functionality coming in 1.217:23
itsnotabigtruckalternatively you can skip the reboot and just kill its script17:23
nid0but my calendar still updates17:23
itsnotabigtruckthe problem is that it doesn't ship with postinst/prerm scripts17:23
itsnotabigtruckactually i think it has postinst, just not prerm17:24
nid0I havent really bothered looking into it, but i've deffo rebooted the phone since removing it - what script's it run that needs removing?17:24 i think17:24
nid0ah, got it17:25
itsnotabigtruckthat's strange that it was still running though17:25
itsnotabigtruckupstart jobs normally get marked as conffiles, which means it may have left the upstart job in place17:26
itsnotabigtruckdo dpkg --purge calendaricon calender-hack17:27
itsnotabigtruckhmm, apparently at&t wireless used to have video calling before all the mergers (that's way back)17:33
itsnotabigtruckand yeah, the N9 shutter sound can be muted17:38
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure if it's actually law to make the shutter sound anywhere, though i think a few asian countries (namely japan) were pressuring phone companies to implement it anyway17:39
itsnotabigtruckok, apparently it is a regulation in japan17:40
paitsnotabigtruck, but why wouldnt nokia add video calling to skype? the others all have it17:45
pabtw thanks for the link.. it's a good example for changing icons :)17:46
itsnotabigtruckpa: because skype is all proprietary17:47
itsnotabigtruckthey probably can't add it without skype doing so17:47
itsnotabigtruckand who knows what's going on with that17:47
pawell but they are now even best friends with M$17:47
itsnotabigtruckbesides, which to something that isn't skype :p ok, not that practical in reality17:47
itsnotabigtruckbut it's something to think about17:48
pawhy wouldnt skype agree17:48
itsnotabigtruckseems like the features people go on and on and on about are the least important ones17:48
pait seems skype doesnt listen too much to the users17:48
paeven for the emoticons17:48
pathere are still those ugly new ones, while thousands of people complained17:49
paand i still keep an old skype, to get rid of those ugly new smileys17:49
pabloody skype17:49
itsnotabigtruckkeep in mind, the lengths that skype goes to in order to keep anyone else from knowing much of anything about how its system works, make it quite suspicious17:51
itsnotabigtruckthe other proprietary im networks are still fairly well documented and e.g. it's not like MS takes great lengths to keep anyone else from connecting to MSN Messenger17:51
itsnotabigtruckbut skype, that's a whole 'nother story17:51
pabtw, does anyone here use vesku maps?17:52
paor is there another google map client that works better?17:52
paand is there something like wififofum for meego?17:55
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itsnotabigtruckpa: why don't you just use nokia maps17:59
itsnotabigtruckworks fairly well, has offline maps, etc.17:59
pawell.. yeah, i tried, the  thing i needed was missing on those maps..18:00
itsnotabigtruckthat being...18:00
rZrlol @
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paanybody using screen protectors on the n9?18:12
rZrwhat for those screen are used to break diamonds18:14
itsnotabigtruckyeah, screen protectors don't really seem like a great idea18:29
itsnotabigtruckbut a case that covers the screen is18:30
pawhy so?18:30
itsnotabigtruckproblem is i can't decide on one and i'm hoping for someone who's actually used some of them to weigh in18:30
pawhy would you cover the screen with a case?18:30
itsnotabigtruckexcept no one seems to be using any except the one that comes with the phone18:30
itsnotabigtruckto keep dust out18:30
itsnotabigtruckscreen protectors do absolutely nothing about dust, and they ruin the experience18:30
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itsnotabigtruckyou have some mushy plastic that's impossible to apply correctly sitting on top of the awesome glass layer18:31
pagood point18:31
pawhat about these plugs to prevent dust getting in the audio jack or micro usb?18:31
itsnotabigtruckhaven't really looked into that18:32
pahmm maybe a neoprene case18:47
pait's washable18:47
itsnotabigtruckpa: isn't that close to what comes with the n9?18:54
itsnotabigtrucknm, on second thought, no18:55
paits like a sleeve18:55
itsnotabigtrucki'm tempted to buy one of the OEM cases, either cp-553 or cp-55618:56
pajust ordered  a green one,  maybe i dont need plugs for dust and screen protectors18:56
itsnotabigtruckbut the 553 is apparently way too tight for the N9, even though it's made specifically for it18:56
itsnotabigtruckno idea about the 55618:57
paah you want nokia cases18:57
itsnotabigtrucki'm afraid the 556 might be difficult to get the n9 in and out of18:57
itsnotabigtruckalso both of those are more expensive than they should be to buy in the US18:57
itsnotabigtrucknot necessarily...i just want a half-decent case18:57
pai just ordered this one:18:57
itsnotabigtruckthere's also the noreve case and the nokia 571, which have similar designs18:57
itsnotabigtruckbut they look like the n9 could fall out of them, and it looks like the phone would be difficult to access18:58
itsnotabigtruckhm, not bad, just not really what i'm looking for18:58
pawhich seems tight enough to prevent dust18:58
pawhile still stretchy, since it's neoprene18:58
pa5 pounds.. i thought i can just try and see18:59
itsnotabigtruckalso argh, i hate "review" sites like this
itsnotabigtruckthat basically exist to get somebody free gear in exchange for pimping it out on the review site19:00
pathat one doesnt look too much dust protecting19:00
itsnotabigtruckwell, when closed it completely covers the screen19:01
pascreen yes19:01
itsnotabigtruckseems pretty dust protecting, the problem is that you have to open it to access the phone, and when opened there's nothing but a couple tabs holding it in place19:01
paaudio jack no, speaker not too much19:01
itsnotabigtruckalso the flap opens down, which seems inconvenient19:02
itsnotabigtruckso you're talking on the phone and you have this gigantic flap hanging down from the phone, heh19:02
paheh :)19:02
itsnotabigtruckand i'm not worried that much about dust in the audio jack or whatnot, it's just that the screen is a dust collector19:02
pathey say screen protector are dust-repelling19:03
itsnotabigtruckyeah, but i'm already ruling those out :p19:04
itsnotabigtrucki had an awesome proporta sleeve for my e71, but that model doesn't fit the n9 very well19:04
itsnotabigtruckbut it worked great, protected the e71 while it was in my pocket, could easily take it out and use it19:05
itsnotabigtrucki'm a bit more worried about the N9 though, it's a lot more fragile than the e7119:05
paheh i guess19:05
itsnotabigtruckthe e71 survived all sorts of abuse that the n9 certainly wouldn't19:05
leiniri /think/ you might be underestimating the N9 a bit... :)19:06
pai got it on the floor once, already19:06
pait survived so far19:06
pawithout the shell, yet19:07
itsnotabigtruckleinir: the glass screen can be broken very easily and is expensive to replace, the plastic body is easily scuffed, etc.19:07
leiniri dropped it on the pavement when i tried to take a photo of the first frost before yule... survived that one just gone too :)19:07
paactually while trying to put it in the shell :p19:07
itsnotabigtrucki already bent my USB door, though it was able to be bent back19:07
infobotleinir meant: i dropped it on the pavement when i tried to take a photo of the first frost before yule... survived that one just fine too :)19:07
itsnotabigtrucki have a couple spare usb doors on order because they were cheap and i anticipate needing them :p19:08
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rhkfinho - found / learned how to use swype on N950 - AWESOME INPUT METHOD!19:14
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itsnotabigtruckrhkfin: but you have a physical keyboard...19:48
hiemanshu_itsnotabigtruck: single handed typing :)19:51
itsnotabigtruckbtw rhkfin: get supposedly it works ok on N95019:52
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razvanpetruhey, anyone know how I can "lock device" from an app? I've looked at QmLocks but I don't have the permission to use it23:38
razvanpetrutried mce::TKLockControl and origin does not allow it...23:38
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