IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-02-23

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jpwhitinghey all, is there anyone here that knows how contacts in Harmattan Contacts app are pulled from Telepathy?00:09
jpwhitingI see a telepathy plugin in the contactsd repository, and I also see a contacts importer for telepathy-qt4 contacts that uses a ContactSearch interface on the cm00:10
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, so im trying to make my steam account page match up to standard accounts like you suggested, but there's 2 things I cant figure out00:16
Sazpaimon1. when unselected, the inputs are styled with a darker background00:16
Sazpaimon2. When the username box is selected, enter is replaced with next on the vkb, which goes to the password box, which replaces the key with OK00:17
Sazpaimonis this all part of the TextField element?00:17
matrixxZogG_laptop: heh00:18
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Sazpaimonalso on the username box, "," is replaced with "@"00:19
Sazpaimonbut i dont really need that00:19
itsnotabigtruckwell, obviously there's some way to override that stuff00:19
itsnotabigtruckmaybe the accounts plugins use MTF rather than Qt?00:19
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Sazpaimonits possible00:19
Sazpaimonif thats the case i guess I can just leave it how i have it00:20
itsnotabigtruckugh, had i waited longer to get my N9 i could have obtained a 64gb for a sane price00:20
itsnotabigtruck64gb was such a ripoff for the longest time00:20
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ieatlintitsnotabigtruck: the grue sensor is actually related to the proximity sensor on the n901:10
ieatlintat least, from what i recall01:10
ieatlintcovering the proximity sensor reduces your risk of grue attack ("hiding")01:10
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ieatlintit's demo code... a well documented instruction on how to implement new sensors01:15
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Arkenoihow is dropbox account expected to work? as sharing option?01:40
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Sazpaimoni just took the cover off my N902:07
Sazpaimonholy crap02:07
Sazpaimonhow did it get so dirty under there02:07
itsnotabigtrucki still can't decide on a proper case02:08
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itsnotabigtruck how about this! :p02:11
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itsnotabigtruckhow well does the N9 fit in iphone4 vertical pouches02:30
itsnotabigtruckit looks like dimension-wise they aren't far apart02:32
Sazpaimonhey so like02:35
SazpaimonpageStack.push(Qt.resolvedUrl("SteamGuard.qml"), {}, true);02:35
Sazpaimonfile:///opt/steamplugin/qml/MainPage.qml:109: TypeError: Result of expression 'pageStack' [null] is not an object.02:35
Sazpaimoni mean, it works and all, the new page is added, but it still returns that error02:35
itsnotabigtruckargh, qml02:35
itsnotabigtruckall everyone wants to talk about is their qml apps misbehaving >_>02:35
itsnotabigtruckalso < what is jolo's affiliation?02:40
itsnotabigtruckcan't be working for mozilla (mentions having "discussions with mozilla"), and probably not working for nokia (which wouldn't be very interested in 3rd party browser ports)02:41
itsnotabigtrucknm, apparently he is on nokia payroll02:42
djszapijpwhiting: did you get your contact question solved ?02:42
djszapimatrixx: okay.02:43
djszapiZogG_laptop: please do not use me, as your personal helper for bugs that I do not care about.02:44
djszapi02:35 < Sazpaimon> file:///opt/steamplugin/qml/MainPage.qml:109: TypeError: Result of expression 'pageStack' [null] is not an object. -> huh ?02:45
djszapihow did you think we can check that url out ?02:45
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: not sure what you mean about prison....02:46
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: didn't notice you already got changing nicks all the time messes up my color coding over here :p02:47
itsnotabigtrucki meant not being able to leave the building after hours, like you were complaining about02:48
djszapiahhh, yes, I got out.02:48
* djszapi reboots to windows again :/02:49
itsnotabigtrucksince at least everywhere i've worked (which is not many places) either just has a plain old door, or a lobby with long hours02:49
befordi'm wrking from home now02:53
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itsnotabigtrucki'm getting *really* sick of this whatsapp nonsense02:53
itsnotabigtruckthere's yet another thread about it on tmo begging someone to RE the protocol02:53
itsnotabigtruckmaybe it would be different were whatsapp actually something worth caring about02:54
djszapi|windowsnot worse than qt&windows :P02:54
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itsnotabigtruckhm, meecast 0.5 is out, with the proper font now02:57
djszapi|windowsso there is no proper builtin editor into windows ? LOL03:00
befordwhats wrong with notepad03:00
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi|windows: download notepad++03:01
djszapi|windowsbeford: the fact it does not work for double click03:01
itsnotabigtruckit's kinda like a souped up gedit, for windows03:01
itsnotabigtruckdespite the name it isn't much like notepad03:02
itsnotabigtrucknotepad is awful03:02
djszapi|windowsitsnotabigtruck: no, thanks. Downlonding (g)vim. :)03:02
itsnotabigtruckbtw what are the appsformeego apt lines03:02
itsnotabigtrucki can't find them03:02
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itsnotabigtruckugh, for whatever reason this is nowhere documented, guess they really want people to install that client :/03:13
itsnotabigtruckdeb ./03:13
itsnotabigtruckdeb ./03:13
itsnotabigtruckfor reference03:13
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Sazpaimondjszapi, did you ever find the location of the info icon?03:18
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itsnotabigtruckis everything on the N9 hardwired to launch grob, or is there a concept of a default browser?03:34
itsnotabigtruckthis is going to become important with opera out now, firefox hacked on, and possibly an official firefox coming soon03:35
itsnotabigtruckon symbian there isn't, which is a big problem because the default browser is useless but all the built-in apps always launch it03:35
Jarewhatsapp grrr.. I can't wait when someone asks if I'm using it :E03:35
Jareor any other of those "new" "sms-like" services03:36
itsnotabigtruckwell, the basic concept isn't bad...i'd like to see a free, security-oriented, open, whatsapp-type setup03:37
itsnotabigtruckxmpp sorta does that but it isn't very good on the security-oriented criterion, and software support for it is uniformly horrible03:37
itsnotabigtruckbut this hypothetical setup could just be a fancy gui on top of an xmpp server03:37
Jarearen't there enough im services already?03:37
itsnotabigtruckyeah but the problem is that they aren't getting bigger03:38
itsnotabigtruckin fact they're losing steam or have already lost it03:38
itsnotabigtruckxmpp never really had a chance, aim/msn/yahoo are generally out of fashion03:38
itsnotabigtrucksteam chat and facebook chat get a fair amount of use despite being terrible, but only because they're closely tied to steam and facebook03:38
itsnotabigtruckfor the general population it's all about sms and that's a problem03:39
itsnotabigtruckalso even though xmpp and several other im services have store-and-forward capability, most people don't use that03:39
itsnotabigtruckim clients don't usually 'feel' the same as sms, which sits somewhere between im and email03:40
Jareso basically we are back to user experience and marketing...03:40
itsnotabigtruckpretty much, but those make all the difference in the world03:40
itsnotabigtruckthat's what so many people don't understand03:40
itsnotabigtruckthat's why xmpp has taken off like a tonne of bricks outside of a small niche03:41
itsnotabigtruckand personally i use xmpp but i don't like it03:41
itsnotabigtrucknot with the current stagnated state of clients and servers03:41
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itsnotabigtruckon the other hand, i mentioned security oriented03:42
itsnotabigtruckthe big selling point w/ whatsapp and xms and all those is that they scan your address book for phone numbers ans associate them with im contacts03:43
itsnotabigtruckin order to have a secure link, you'd have to either a) eliminate that element, and instead swap public key fingerprints with the other person03:43
Jareand that's the biggest point I hate about them03:44
itsnotabigtruckb) strongly encourage the user to call the contact and compare short authentication strings03:44
itsnotabigtruckwhich is convenient since you already have the contact's phone number, and you're on a phone03:45
itsnotabigtruckbut realistically people aren't going to like either approach03:45
JareI guess a secure hash of contacs' phone numbers would be sufficient (for me)03:46
itsnotabigtrucksearch space is too small03:46
itsnotabigtruckus phone number = 10 digits long03:46
itsnotabigtruckso lg(10^10) = 33.2103:47
itsnotabigtruckit's not going to be all that much bigger including all numbers worldwide03:47
itsnotabigtruckit's trivial to recover a set of possible phone numbers with a search space that small03:48
itsnotabigtruckand if you drop bits then you increase the collision probability by a lot, and in many cases the attacker could filter out impossible phone numbers and find the real one03:49
itsnotabigtruckjare ^03:49
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jpwhitingdjszapi: no but I think I know how to find the answer04:12
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itsnotabigtruckoh man, oh god, oh man, oh god, oh man!!!!04:53
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Jareweird, I added a SIP number to a contact about six hours ago and now it's gone04:59
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Jareat first it lost the assignment from phone logs, but now it has deleted the number from the contact too05:00
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djszapi|windowsinteresting, the bug fix was one liner for the qt5 patch on Windows...05:05
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Sazpaimondjszapi djszapi|windows, ping05:29
Sazpaimondid you ever find the info icon05:32
Sazpaimoni need it too05:32
djszapiyes of course05:32
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Sazpaimonoh you made your own? I thought you were looking for the one that appears in the settings applet05:33
djszapihave you ever checked the link I pasted two lines above ?05:34
djszapiThat is exactly the same.05:34
itsnotabigtruckbtw i *think* kanagram settings is supposed to be sentence-cased05:35
Sazpaimonreally? it lokks different05:35
itsnotabigtruckor possibly just Kanagram, or Settings05:35
Sazpaimonthe one in settings has no gradient background05:35
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: are you sure it isn't just the 90* rotation05:35
itsnotabigtruckyou're right05:35
Sazpaimonthe one in settings is smaller, and has a flat background05:35
djszapiSazpaimon: yes, of course, because it looks cooler05:35
djszapibut it is still a platform icon anyway05:36
djszapiso the uglier is next to it.05:36
Sazpaimondjszapi, what's the QML to get it?05:36
Sazpaimonif you dont mind05:36
djszapiin what currency do you plan to pay ? Eur/Huf is okay for me ;)05:37
Sazpaimonsure, I'll pay you 0.00EUR05:37
djszapijust go ahead on your own way then ;-)05:38
itsnotabigtruckbut since that one isn't the real deal, better use the other one instead05:44
Sazpaimonyeah i just saw it in the kanagram repository05:44
Sazpaimonand djszapi bundles the icon05:44
djszapibundles the icon ?05:44
djszapiin any case, why do you wanna have the uglier ?05:45
itsnotabigtruckman, there's a lot of icons here for commercial apps that aren't available for harmattan, bundled or otherwise05:46
Sazpaimondjszapi, thats a matter of opinion05:47
Sazpaimoni like the flat background icon better05:47
itsnotabigtruckthe N9 must have been destined for at&t at some point, them having icons bundled in05:47
Sazpaimoni was just confused because icon-l-user-guide-main-view.png is in the application itself05:48
itsnotabigtruckthat's the settings box one ^^05:48
djszapithe flat is really ugly to me05:49
djszapiI do not understand why they chose it05:49
djszapibut the settings application is a design fail in any case05:49
djszapido you also wanna replicate their crappy user guide ?05:49
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, actually are you sure?05:49
djszapiwhite page, that is05:49
itsnotabigtruckhm? the settings app is quite elegant imo05:49
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: huh ??05:49
itsnotabigtruckit does what it needs to do with a clean layout05:49
djszapihave you ever opened up a user guide ?05:49
djszapihuh ?05:50
djszapithat is a design fail, and that is not just my opinion, also designers said it.05:50
djszapithe icon info is yet another pitfall05:50
djszapifrom what I think and heard from designers05:50
djszapinot just the flat uglyness, but also the inconsistency05:51
Sazpaimoni dont want to replicate the user guide, I just think that icon looks better next to a textfield element05:51
djszapithe icons are not really in a column05:51
djszapiSazpaimon: if you do not wanna have user guide, why have user guide icon ?05:51
Sazpaimonbecause it's useful for more than just the user guide05:51
Sazpaimonunless there's a version with ? inside instead of "i"05:52
djszapibecause of two reasons05:52
djszapi1) It is a placeholder for the user guide on Harmattan05:52
djszapi2) If you do not have user guide in there, what else do you have ?05:52
djszapiinfobanner ? Sounds crappy.05:52
itsnotabigtruckthere's icons for qik, layar, grob, journeys, shazam, vimeo, a widget gallery, dopplr, firefox, aim, at&t, icq, tippit, msn messenger, hotmail, myspace, yahoo messenger, vodafone05:52
itsnotabigtruckthat are, afaik, nowhere utilised05:52
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, extraplugins utilizes a few of those05:53
djszapiSazpaimon: but you are welcome without even saying thanks :)05:53
Sazpaimonbut yeah, otherwise unussed officialy05:53
Sazpaimon[22:48] <Sazpaimon> thanks05:53
itsnotabigtruckand dropbox will use the dropbox one in pr1.205:53
djszapiSazpaimon: oh yes, you said that to itsnotabigtruck05:53
djszapiwho did not actually write the code :)05:53
djszapiand did not suck with it for half a day.05:54
Sazpaimonno I didn't, i said thanks in general05:54
djszapibe clearer please next time.05:54
itsnotabigtruckanyway, looks like there's a green store icon too05:54
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, doesnt the store have a "green" section05:54
Sazpaimonor some crap05:54
djszapinot just about thanks, but in general, whom to reply to05:54
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: hmm, gp05:54
itsnotabigtruckbut this is called icon-m-service-ovi05:55
djszapiif you reply after someone is writing more posts, it is not straight-forward at all05:55
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, there's a gigfinder icon too05:55
SazpaimonI'll make sure to let the ietf know to update the RFC for IRC to add a thanks button05:55
itsnotabigtruckgigfinder i think is in some of the alpha screenshots on the nokia dev site05:55
djszapiSazpaimon: this is something I sucked with for half a day05:55
djszapiso you are extremely lucky to get it for free in few minutes really :)05:56
itsnotabigtruckalso 'sucked with' is probably not what one would usually say :p05:56
djszapithis reminds me I should make the app paid05:58
djszapitoo much effort I dealt with it to have it free.05:58
itsnotabigtruckuh oh...05:59
* itsnotabigtruck clones the repo at the first sign of trouble05:59
djszapiit is not against05:59
Sazpaimonsomeone I know did that with a project he was working on05:59
djszapiI think you slightly misunderstood05:59
djszapiplus you do not have the debian package anyway06:00
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itsnotabigtruckhm, what exactly is grob (besides the browser)06:04
itsnotabigtrucki guess the browser is the most likly which case, good thing they didn't decide to make the browser a giant G06:05
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itsnotabigtrucknot finding much for journeys either...i bet there were going to be city guides like what maps on symbian has06:13
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, there's nokia city scene in the store06:13
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: not really the same thing06:15
itsnotabigtruckbut i haven't heard very great things about nokia maps travel guides anyway06:15
Sazpaimoni wouldnt know06:15
Sazpaimonlast symbian phone I had was an E7106:15
itsnotabigtrucklooks like porting dopplr to the N9 was considered at some point, makes sense given that nokia owns it06:15
Sazpaimonand even though that got the updated maps with TTS, they omitted all the travel guides06:16
itsnotabigtruckexcept they promptly killed it off right after buying it06:16
Sazpaimonand just left navigation06:16
itsnotabigtrucki had an e71 too06:16
Sazpaimonawesome device06:16
SazpaimonI would have gotten an E72 if I didn't end up getting an N90006:16
Sazpaimonor whatever S^3 variant they came up with06:17 seems like the whole non-touchscreen nokia line peaked with the e7106:17
itsnotabigtrucke72 and the others don't look very good06:17
itsnotabigtruckthough there were some other cool nokias at the time, like the e90, which looks aweome06:17
Sazpaimonthe E73 from tmobile was kinda nice06:18
itsnotabigtruckbut everything after the E71, excepting the maemo phones, seems distinctly unappealing06:18
Sazpaimonit had all the great features of the E72 plus more06:18
itsnotabigtruckas if design got thrown out the window at some point06:18
Sazpaimonbut it was tmobile exclusive06:18
itsnotabigtruckwell, the e73 was basically an e72 in an e71 chassis :p06:18
Sazpaimonit was more than that06:19
Sazpaimonit had a curved keyboard at least06:19
Sazpaimonand the optical navi key06:19
itsnotabigtruckthe point is though that it isn't really a distinct entity06:19
Sazpaimonit isn't no06:20
Sazpaimonbut you couldnt really do a whole lot with that design06:20
Sazpaimonand they rehashed it numerious times in C series phones too06:20
Sazpaimonjust more plastic06:20
itsnotabigtruckn95, e71, e90, those were the stuff06:20
itsnotabigtruckthe rest...eh06:21
* djszapi has a next billion device06:21
Sazpaimonas far as feature phones go, S40 is really nice06:21
Sazpaimoni think thats where nokia really shines06:22
itsnotabigtruckit's a shame the entire industry is shifting entirely away from traditional phones, sometimes you don't want a touchscreen thing06:22
Sazpaimonwith their S40 phones that do one thing really really good06:22
Sazpaimonwhether it be music, texting, great loudspeaker06:22
itsnotabigtrucke.g. at&t is dumping its entire non-smartphone lineup and adding a bunch of wannabe-smartphones that run some qualcomm stuff06:22
itsnotabigtruckthose are the worst of both worlds06:22
Sazpaimonyeah i didnt want to get an N900 for years because I couldnt see myself with a touchscreen06:22
SazpaimonI gave in eventually, but told myself I wouldnt get a phone like an iphone because i cant see myself without a keyboard06:23
* Sazpaimon glares at his N906:23
itsnotabigtruckthat's the thing, touchscreen done right is great, touchscreen done wrong is an abomination06:23
itsnotabigtrucksee: winmo, s60 >= 5.0, etc.06:23
djszapiwho cares about technical trails. If it is pink, it is okay anyway ;)06:24
itsnotabigtrucknever used an n900 so i can't comment on that, though the resistive touchscreen definitely kept me away06:24
Sazpaimons60 >= 5.0 doesnt include belle right?06:24
Sazpaimonbecause i think nokia finally got it right with belle06:24
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: well, belle is rehashed s60, so yeah :p06:24
Sazpaimonwell, belle completely abandons all the avkon UI doesnt it?06:24
Sazpaimoniirc its completely Qt based06:25
Sazpaimonunlike S^3 and anna which were more transitional06:25
itsnotabigtrucki doubt it's even possible to do that06:25
Sazpaimonthat was the eventual idea06:25
itsnotabigtruckthat would be a 99% bc break and nokia wouldn't do that06:25
itsnotabigtruckhardly anything on symbian uses qt06:25
itsnotabigtruckall symbian has going for it is backward compatibility06:26
Sazpaimonim sure they would have bc libraries06:26
Sazpaimonavkon is simple06:26
Sazpaimonyou could theoretically have qt->avkon bindings06:26
Sazpaimoni dont know where i read it, but I believe I read that one of the milestones for belle was an interface completely written in Qt06:27
itsnotabigtruckcompletely breaking backward compatibility on a dated platform is why windows arm is dead on arrival06:27
itsnotabigtruckwhat was ms thinking :/06:27
Sazpaimonyou know who did touchscreens right?06:27
Sazpaimonthen nokia made sure they didn't get any market share06:27
itsnotabigtruckuiq looked awful06:27
itsnotabigtruckappearance matters and uiq didn't have it06:27
Sazpaimonit really didn't, but it was a really nice touch interface06:28
Sazpaimonespecially for symbian based06:28
Sazpaimonit beat S60v5 by a mile06:28
itsnotabigtruckfrom a small amount of googling, it looks like avkon isn't going anywhere and the entire OS is still written for it06:28
itsnotabigtruckall nokia is doing is trying to push people to use qt now06:29
itsnotabigtrucki.e. nothing new06:29
Sazpaimonand nobody's going to use Qt because there's still a significant amount of people still using S6006:30
itsnotabigtruckaccording to this, nokia *was* going to overhaul the ui but didn't
Sazpaimonin fact when Opera Mobile 10 got released for S60 people wanted an S60v2 version06:30
Sazpaimonyes, S60v206:30
Sazpaimonha ha ha06:30
itsnotabigtruckdamn :p06:31
Sazpaimonnokia users are VERY slow to adopt new things06:31
Sazpaimonbecause the phones they already own work so well06:31
itsnotabigtruckanyway, s60 was cool back in the day but it's very much a 2nd gen smartphone os06:31
itsnotabigtruckalways was and always will be06:31
itsnotabigtruckwhere palm os is 1st gen and the iphone was 3rd gen06:31
Sazpaimonwhich is a shame because on a kernel level, it surpases a lot of current mainstream OSes06:32
Sazpaimonsymbian's core is very fast, very effecient, and highly optimized06:32
itsnotabigtruckit's also a total mess06:32
djszapiit is a crap06:33
itsnotabigtruckand with infamous core APIs06:33
djszapiand almost unmaintainable...06:33
arekinathah, the old "Symbian was awesome" chestnut06:33
itsnotabigtrucki don't know much about the symbian kernel, but i did poke around at the sdk tree and the source code dump they released a while back06:33
itsnotabigtruckit wasn't exactly beautiful06:33
arekinathitsnotabigtruck: understatement of the year06:33
itsnotabigtruckbut nokia really should have followed through with the symbian open source arrangement06:34
itsnotabigtruckthey announced they were going open source, then did nothing for 6 months, then released bits and pieces06:34
itsnotabigtruckwithout much of any fanfare06:34
Sazpaimonlooking at that article, and yeah i guess the idea was that nokia was expecting everything to be written in qt by belle06:35
itsnotabigtruckand the only real reason anyone would want symbian source code is to customize, but the devices were all locked down anyway06:35
Sazpaimonwhich obviously isnt the case06:35
Sazpaimonso it still uses avkon06:35
itsnotabigtrucki think *finally* there's some ROM cooking going on for newish phones06:35
itsnotabigtruckbut the people doing it seem to lack discipline06:35
Sazpaimonits very basic stuff though i think06:35
Sazpaimonlike, operator logos06:35
Sazpaimonand preloaded software06:35
arekinathit's a little unfortunate that most symbian hardware isn't very linux-friendly06:36
itsnotabigtruckand then what's completely ridiculous is after doing all the work to open source symbian06:36
itsnotabigtruckthey then go and take it back 6 months after that06:36
itsnotabigtruck(don't quote me on the timeframes, i'm just making that part up)06:37
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itsnotabigtruckbtw is there a working account plugin yet for telepathy-gabble and non-google xmpp servers?06:43
itsnotabigtruckand has anyone filed a bug about that not being part of the stock image in the first place?06:47
itsnotabigtruckit's unbelievable, nokia does all the work already for the google talk plugin, then locks out all other xmpp servers06:47
itsnotabigtruckthe permitted im systems are exclusively proprietary06:47
Sazpaimonarg im conflicted06:48
Sazpaimonicon-s-description is like half the size of the TextField to the left of it06:48
itsnotabigtruckwhile at least it's possible to build a plugin to integrate it in just like the stock components, i hate the fact that so many little tweaks like this require reinventing the wheel because everything from nokia is closed by default06:48
Sazpaimonbut icon-m-content-description-inverse is like, 1.5* the size of it06:48
SazpaimonI guess I'll go with smaller06:49
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, welcome to the real word06:49
djszapiN9i have been fighting - word by word - with the sdk teams for one and half a years06:49
djszapiN9many times i even did job for them06:50
djszapiN9they should have just accepted it...06:50
* itsnotabigtruck shrugs06:51
Sazpaimonhow does that info icon look07:12
Sazpaimonthat steam guard line only comes up when you somehow exit during account creation the first time07:12
Sazpaimonso your account is saved without a steam guard07:12
Sazpaimonthe info button will show what to put in that box07:12
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: hmm07:14
Sazpaimonthe medium sized version is unfortunately larger than the inputfield07:15
Sazpaimonwhich would look even worse07:15
itsnotabigtrucki still wish there were a more elegant way to do that...but it seems like it would likely be a monumental task07:15
Sazpaimoni could always scale the icon up in an image editor07:15
Sazpaimonand then just bundle it with the application07:15
Sazpaimonbut eh07:15
Sazpaimonthat line will rarely get shown anyway07:16
itsnotabigtruckimo the best way would be to turn that pidgin plugin into a library, and reference it from a new connection manager07:16
itsnotabigtruckthen you could have some side channel to report the steam guard status07:16
itsnotabigtruckthat would also keep the whole pidgin/haze ugliness out of the equation07:16
Sazpaimonthat would be the best case here, a native plugin07:16
Sazpaimonit'd be reinventing the wheel though for one small improvement07:16
itsnotabigtruckanyway, seems like what you're doing is an ok way to go about it, just make it "Steam Guard code"07:16
itsnotabigtruckor "Validation code"07:17
itsnotabigtruckor something like that07:17
Sazpaimoni would call this an edge case at best07:17
itsnotabigtrucksteam guard isn't really an edge case...07:17
Sazpaimoni mean this scenario07:17
itsnotabigtruckbut it is a one-time case07:17
itsnotabigtrucknot something the user constantly runs into07:17
Sazpaimonthis scenario only comes up when they close the accounts-ui when they see the initial steam guard screen07:17
Sazpaimonon initial setup, steam guard shows up on a different screen altogether07:18
Sazpaimonor if they change their credentials07:18
itsnotabigtruckthere's also the case where the user gets the password wrong on the first attempt07:18
djszapiSazpaimon: you can adjust the size of an image...07:18
Sazpaimondjszapi, image is in a ToolIcon element07:18
djszapiso what ?07:18
itsnotabigtruckalso i think the [i] icon looks ok07:19
itsnotabigtruckyou're right that it's kinda tiny07:19
Sazpaimoni wasnt sure if you could reasize the iconSource argument07:19
Sazpaimoncan you?07:19
itsnotabigtruckare there any examples in nokia stuff of the [i] being used in conjunction with a textbox?07:19
djszapiSazpaimon: why would you do that ?07:19
itsnotabigtruckor info in the interface design manual?07:19
djszapiyou do not need to do that.07:19
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, no, i only see it next to switches07:19
Sazpaimonbut switches are the same size as the textfield anyway07:20
Sazpaimonthey're just thinner so the size difference isnt as dramatic looking07:20
djszapiI am not sure what the problem is ...07:20
djszapithe icon can be adjusted, and it even works for me without any adjustment.07:20
Sazpaimondjszapi, how would I resize the image if its in a ToolIcon element?07:21
djszapisame size as the switch, see the screenshot about.07:21
djszapiSazpaimon: do you understand what you are saying ? :)07:21
djszapiImage is an image, not toolicon.07:21
Sazpaimondjszapi, I never understand what I'm saying07:21
djszapiand no, it is not exposed at all07:21
djszapirealize so much ;)07:21
itsnotabigtruckisn't the icon a png?07:22
Sazpaimonbut the image is an iconSource of the toolicon element07:22
itsnotabigtruckdon't try to resize a png07:22
Sazpaimonyeah, it is07:22
djszapiSazpaimon: seriously, you do not still get it ?07:22
SazpaimonI don't know, resizing a 32x32 png to 40x40 wouldnt really do any bad stuff07:22
djszapiokay, to put it very clear:07:22
djszapiImage can be resized !07:22
djszapiso why would you use ToolIcon in the first place, if that does not expose it ?07:22
djszapiIsn't it something illogical ?07:23
djszapiyes, it is.07:23
Sazpaimondoes Image have an onclicked?07:23
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: actually small resizes can be the worst07:23
itsnotabigtruckthat's how you get blurryness07:23
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: works fine really for this type.07:23
itsnotabigtrucke.g. going fom 32x32 to 33x33 is fatal07:23
djszapiI even resized much more complex icons07:23
djszapiSazpaimon: please open up the documentation about MouseArea07:24
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itsnotabigtruckalso, i expected the "nokia n9 ux guidelines" to contain...guidelines07:24
itsnotabigtruckyou know, as in "compliant apps MUST use text fields no narrower than x pixels, complient apps MUST integrate help, blah blah"07:24
Sazpaimondjszapi, oh crap, yeah I forgot about mousearea07:25
djszapiToolIcon makes no sense anyway07:25
djszapiI just used it because I already had a toolicon action previously.07:25
djszapido not bother to change for no real good.07:25
djszapibut in any case...07:26
djszapimy icon is pretty well fine without adjustment.07:26
* itsnotabigtruck wants to play angry weasels :(07:26
djszapiSazpaimon: and that is precisely the reason why I was unhappy with qml07:27
djszapithere is no simple way to expose a complete embedded component nicely.07:27
djszapisince if there was, toolicon could expose the image as an embedded component, as is.07:27
djszapiand customers could change the properties (any)07:27
djszapisame with embedded texts, etc etc etc07:28
djszapithis platform icon really looks uncool with this small size.07:28
djszapiluckily enough, the user guide icon works fine without adjustment :)07:29
Sazpaimonim not too hot on this size07:32
djszapiit is not about the size07:33
djszapiit really looks blurry07:33
djszapiand the reason is simple: you scaled down07:33
Sazpaimoni scaled up07:33
djszapiand you should scale icons always down07:33
Sazpaimonyeah let me try with the medium sized image07:33
Sazpaimonhow does qml resize images07:33
djszapiso I wonder why you tried it ;)07:33
Sazpaimonis it just nearest neighbor?07:33
djszapiit is almost never a good idea07:33
djszapidownsizing, on the contrary, always worked for me.07:34
djszapithough I do not like this icon size in your layout07:34
djszapiit is too bloated imho07:35
djszapiyou should have more space.07:35
Sazpaimonyeah I have it close right now just to compare07:36
SazpaimonI'm going to increase the margins in a bit07:36
djszapiif you have wanna the reactive area this size, that can be done with smaller image, plus a bit of tweak too, but I do not think that is the case here.07:36
Sazpaimonthat's how it looks  with the larger icon sized down07:36
djszapiohhh, why margin ?07:37
djszapiwhy not spacing ?07:37
djszapidon't you put them into a row ?07:37
SazpaimonI do07:37
djszapithen using spacing07:37
djszapiis a better idea.07:37
Sazpaimonoh yeah07:37
Sazpaimoni always forget spacing for rows07:37
Sazpaimononly ever use them for columns07:37
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: aaaaaaaah scaling07:37
Sazpaimonim also not sure why im using anchors in a row07:38
Sazpaimonespecially when Im anchoring to the left and right of parent07:38
Sazpaimonwhat was I thinking07:38
djszapinever use it07:39
djszapiyou will lose the performance07:39
djszapiwhich is not a big show stopper in this, case unneccesary07:39
Sazpaimonthat's with 10 spacing07:39
djszapiI would put some rightMargin too07:40
djszapibut that is just me07:40
djszapito be symmetrical07:40
Sazpaimonactually, i took off the width of the textfield, and I kinda like this07:40
djszapiplus better UX for touching at the edge of the phone.07:40
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: still ugly07:40
Sazpaimon I like the default with of the textfield07:41
itsnotabigtruckrule #1 of raster icons is that you don't talk...i mean, resize raster icons07:41
itsnotabigtrucknever ever ever ever upsize an icon in a gui07:41
djszapiimho way better than small icon07:41
Sazpaimonespecially because the steam guard code is only 6 characters07:41
Sazpaimonit doesnt need a full width input box07:41
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: you can even see how the edges aren't smoothed anymore07:41
itsnotabigtrucklooks like a deformed octagon :p07:41
djszapiI do not think it is too bad07:42
djszapiimo, it is acceptable.07:42
djszapiat least I would not bother with more work07:42
Sazpaimonwhat if I wrap it in a rectangle with a rounded radius07:42
djszapiSazpaimon: don't you have better things to do ? :)07:43
Sazpaimonyoure right07:43
Sazpaimoni dont feel like replicating squircle icons in a rectangle element07:43
djszapiI mean why fine tune instead of concentrating on more major things ?07:43 that's a word i haven't heard in a while07:44
Sazpaimondjszapi, this is pretty much the last thing that needs doing07:44
Sazpaimonjust fine tuning the UI07:44
djszapiSazpaimon: well, if you find pleasure in that, then go for it07:45
djszapiget the svg07:45
djszapiedit it, import it in your stuff07:45
djszapilosing the platform approach etc07:45
Sazpaimoni find no pleasure in making tiny changes to UI stuff actually07:45
* djszapi neither07:45
Sazpaimonbut that small icon was bugging the crap out of me07:45
djszapithat is done ?07:45
Sazpaimonand the not so round edges, while they may bug itsnotabigtruck, I'm perfectly fine with07:46
djszapiI think there is a healthy border between fine tuning, and do more applications that are also useful07:46
Sazpaimonthough one thing that's bothering me is that toolbar at the bottom07:50
Sazpaimonim not sure why the buttons are offset to the left07:50
Sazpaimonim not using any margins at all07:50
djszapicheck my code out07:51
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: well, it just bugs me because it's a bad design faux pas and it's easy to fix07:53
itsnotabigtruckthe small icon isn't ideal but it's also way better than a streched icon07:53
itsnotabigtruckso many people pay no attention to raster image stretching, bad font choices, and things like that and worse applications are produced for it07:54
itsnotabigtruckbut at the same time, yeah, other stuff is obviously more important07:54
djszapismaller icon feels really bad07:55
djszapiextremely bad07:55
djszapithere is a reason even the VKB button was sized for bigger...07:55
Sazpaimondjszapi, yeah my toolbar is like that too, except im using ToolButton instead of button07:55
djszapiit is really hard to touch it with fat fingers otherwise.07:55
itsnotabigtruckreduce the size of your fingers :D07:56
djszapithe bass guitar bunds are far away07:56
djszapiI need big hand really :)07:56
djszapibig fingers etc ;)07:56
Sazpaimonyou know what they say about big hands07:57
Sazpaimonbig... feet07:57
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djszapiSazpaimon: yeah, I will not rearrange though since it works :D07:59
Sazpaimonyeah im still not sure why my buttons are like the way they are07:59
Sazpaimonbut whatever07:59
djszapithe history of that button is that it was not in the toolbar.07:59
Sazpaimoni'll live07:59
djszapijust got copy/pasted.07:59
Sazpaimonit should be like
Sazpaimonbut as you can see the save icon is at the very edge of the left08:00
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Sazpaimonand cancel is slightly wider08:00
djszapiit is all about spacing anyway08:01
djszapiand margin08:01
djszapiso why not just experiment ?08:01
djszapiohh I recall why ToolButton does not scale for me.08:02
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Sazpaimonyeah I ensws up making all the toolbar elements anchor eachother08:04
Sazpaimonand tweaked their margins08:04
Sazpaimonproblem solved08:04
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah: idea08:05
itsnotabigtruckeliminate the [i]s and put a help option in your popup menu08:05
SazpaimonI'd like to have the information for what to put in that box readily available08:06
Sazpaimoni know from personal experience that I dont go to the popup box to get help08:06
djszapiyeah, that is normally for more like "About".08:06
Sazpaimondoubly solved the toolbar thing by just making them all into a row and spacing08:08
Sazpaimoni gotta stop relying on anchors08:08
Sazpaimonthe textfields and labels are all handled by anchors08:08
Sazpaimonbut I couldnt think of a better way to do that08:09
djszapiwhy not column ?08:09
djszapifor the whole page actually.08:09
Sazpaimonbecause i needed the labels to be a certain height above the inputfields08:10
djszapiso why not margin there ?08:10
Sazpaimonwouldnt I need to anchor them to the TextField anyway then?08:11
djszapiI would expect it to work oob, but if not08:12
djszapiyou still better go with Column/Column08:12
djszapithe manual anchoring, anyway08:12
Sazpaimonmaybe if I had like 50 elements i was anchoring08:12
djszapiI even used Column for two items08:15
djszapi -> so for only one setting08:16
djszapiworth it really08:17
djszapisaves you a lot of error-prone typing.08:17
itsnotabigtruckbtw i think those [i]'s are too far to the left08:17
itsnotabigtruckthe first two08:17
itsnotabigtruckalternately, the switch is too far to the right08:17
djszapinot really, no08:18
djszapithey are horzontally centered in that "column".08:18
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, are you looking at the one with the half width inputfield08:18
itsnotabigtruckbut centering isn't what looks proper, left or right justification is08:18
djszapiand that is a toolicon limitation anyway08:18
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: i was looking at djszapi's settings box08:19
djszapinot proper for you08:19
Sazpaimonoh whoops08:19
djszapiI dislike buttons at the right08:19
djszapiedge of the phone.08:19
itsnotabigtrucknot proper in general, aligned things just look better08:19
djszapinot really, no08:19
djszapiif I use the switch from left to right, I swipe my finger away the phone08:20
djszapiand this way not08:20
djszapiand as I also said, it is even a toolicon behavior.08:20
djszapito be aligned this way.08:20
djszapiwhat I could actually do is getting the switch closer to the left side08:21
itsnotabigtruckanyway...early classes08:21
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Sazpaimonok im gonna listen to some yelle and sleep08:28
djszapigood night08:29
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: it's not coz i don't get help. it's how you say it =) nevermind08:34
djszapiI will never mind in the future.08:35
Sazpaimondjszapi is a smart dude I think he's allowed to be an ass about it if he wants08:37
Sazpaimonanyway zzzz08:37
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djszapiZogG_laptop: it was already assigned one month ago according to the Nokia guy ...09:08
djszapiplus only 2 votes, one except from you, and person keep reporting. :)09:18
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oscoderhi, guys, i came across an issue about the timezone when implemented a feature to add some event into the mkcal in the harmattan platform. so I just want to know there are some meet this as the same with me?!09:35
oscoderthe corresponding date from platform system will jump from current date to another date when i attempte to add some event into mkcal.09:36
oscodersomeones here now!?09:36
oscoderanyone can help me with this issue..thanks.09:37
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djszapi - "Priority status in the Ovi Publishing queue" -> Ohh so being an ambassador is cool for something :P11:38
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Arkenoimy phonebook is a total mess. I wonder when will the tracker be fixed so I can merge contacts appropriately :-/11:53
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oscoderhi, guys, i came across an issue about the timezone when implemented a feature to add some event into the mkcal in the harmattan platform. so I just want to know there are some meet this as the same with me?!12:13
oscoderthe corresponding date from platform system will jump from current date to another date when i attempte to add some event into mkcal.12:13
oscodersomeones here now!?12:13
oscoderanyone can help me with this issue..thanks.12:13
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gridjszapi: I am ambassador but where's my Priority publishing? :)12:38
djszapigri: no clue :)12:38
spenapgri, you have to request it every time you post an update12:39
spenapif I understood them well12:39
djszapihow can you request, in a separate mail ?12:39
djszapior what is the workflow for that ?12:39
spenapI had to request to the ambassador person, by email12:39
spenapgiving her the details of the ovi content12:40
griIf you send them a mail to developer support they put you always in "fast queue", no matter if you're ambassador or not12:40
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spenapah, didn't know that12:40
djszapiwell, they sometimes answer after 5 days :)12:40
djszapiso sometimes putting into the "fast queue" this way is lower :P12:40
gribtw. did anyone ever use QSystemAlignedTimer on the phone? I've set up a timer to ~80000 seconds but it fires after half a day :( (too fast)12:41
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griBaaad day: Coffee machine reports "heating unit missing" - wtf?!13:03
RST38hThe heating unit has been recalled to the Great Coffee Machine in the Sky13:04
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djszapigri: does the coffee machine run Qt ?13:05
gridjszapi: I don't think so, it's too old for that13:05
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djszapiwe had such coffee machines (running Qt) in Munich. I was a bit positively surprised.13:06
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griThe old machine is nowhere to be found :(13:36
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djszapibeford: can you test my updated patch on Mac please ?16:55
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danielcbitHi Everybody. Does somebody know how can I disable touch input in status bar?18:02
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itsnotabigtruckhm, i should really order a new keyboard for my laptop18:46
itsnotabigtruckthat said, they cost around $60 and this laptop's getting fairly old anyway18:46
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merlin1991how is that stuff again called that creates a compressed swap in ram (used on the n9)19:06
mgedminoh, really? the n9's swap is ram?19:07
mgedminthat's (a) very interesting and (b) explains a lot19:07
dm8tbrmgedmin: not exclusively19:08
dm8tbrIIRC they use zswap or something like that first and if that is full they swap to emmc(?)19:08
merlin1991dm8tbr: I remember someone saying that it's compcache all the way19:08
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merlin1991(compcache was the name I was looking for)19:09
dm8tbrhm right, cat proc/swaps only lists /dev/ramzswqp019:09
mgedminjust yesterday I saw kswapd eating 60% cpu (and system eating the other 40%), while vmstat showed me zero swapin/swapout and io19:09
mgedminhm, today my n9 refuses to connect to my office wifi19:09
djszapi|windowsgri: I am opening a bugreport for adding an ambassador check to the publisher thingie :)19:11
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djszapi|windowsor maybe not...because everybody could do it....mmm, not sure how to bind them...Probably ask  them once should be fairly enough and they could set up it for the time until you resign, if any.19:12
dymaxionhi there, I need a bit of help... my N9 appears to be dead... it was working about 1 hour ago... running low on battery... ran out of juice... and now it won't charge at all... plugged in, dead :-(19:13
djszapi|windowsyou do not see the charge indicator feedback either, dymaxion ?19:13
dymaxionnope :-(   crazy...19:13
djszapi|windowsAre you trying to use wall charger, usb or both ?19:14
danielcbitdymaxion, leave it pluged. Sometimes devices discharge beyond the minimum limit and it takes time to recharge. Use the wall charger19:14
dymaxionwall charger...   tried plugging in the USB cable into a different HTC lower ampage wall charger too... in case charger was dead.19:15
dymaxionhope it does recover...  else I'll have to book a flight to Singapore and take it to Nokia care!  hope I don't lose all my data too :-( photos etc.19:16
djszapi|windowsdymaxion: does your wall charger work with other phones ?19:16
dymaxionwas behaving a bit weird just before it died I noticed.... was being really laggy...19:16
djszapi|windowsif you do not get it charged by any mechanism that is weird19:16
dymaxionwill check the opposite... : ie. nokia charger with other phone too...  brb...19:17
dymaxionoh dear... nokia charger works with other phones :-(    no response with N9  :-(19:18
djszapi|windowsjpwhiting: okay, the updated kanagram is now in Ovi19:18
dymaxionlooks like N9 has just randomly died ! b*gger19:18
dymaxionis there any sort of Hard Power off  feature?19:19
dymaxionsince I can't pull the battery out19:19
jpwhitingdymaxion: good luck19:20
jpwhitingI had the same problem a couple weeks ago and got it to charge with flasher -i but it never would boot19:20
jpwhitingtread lightly :)19:20
jpwhitingdjszapi|windows: awesome, /me checks it out19:20
mgedminhm, the n9 connected to office wifi before I started debugging why it wouldn't19:20
dymaxionoh dear... so jpwhiting how did you fix in the end ?19:20
jpwhitingdymaxion: I didn't19:20
jpwhitingwill be sending it back to nokia soonish19:21
dymaxionso it charged up but wouldn't boot at all ?19:21
mgedminI can't connect to it or ping it, of course19:21
mgedminand now I can19:21
jpwhitingdymaxion: yeah, I had trouble getting it to flash, maybe if you only flasher -i to get it to charge it will work19:21
DocScrutinizer51dymaxion: just plug N9 to original charger, with good cable, and wait19:21
dymaxionDocScrutinizer51,  waited 15mins so far.. nothing :-(19:22
dymaxionjpwhiting, I might try that... so you plugged into your laptop and starter the flasher  program?19:22
jpwhitingdymaxion: yep, and if you do flasher -F blah -f it will show how much charge it has19:22
DocScrutinizer51other sequnce19:22
jpwhitingbut once it gets up to 11% it will try to flash19:23
DocScrutinizer51first start flasher19:23
jpwhitingso try just flasher -i instead19:23
jpwhitingbut yeah, plug into usb after you start flasher19:23
DocScrutinizer51dymaxion: wait19:23
DocScrutinizer51and you can do one thing: hold power button for 20s19:24
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dymaxion20s  ... aah ok.. I'll try that first... hard power off I assume... tried for 5s before no result... will try 20s ..   thanks brb...19:24
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DocScrutinizer51well, should be 10 but better do 2019:28
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dymaxionDocScrutinizer, OMG ! Something is happening... plugged it back in.. I see the Nokia logo.... fingers crossed it will start charging now...19:29
dymaxionflakey firmware... grrr !!!19:29
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djszapihave you tried longer than 8secs ?19:30
djszapidymaxion: ^19:30
dymaxioncharging now... yey!19:30
djszapiI mean to press the power button.19:30
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: fast queue for ambassadors wonder that certain individual is having so much luck overflowing ovi store with shovelware19:30
djszapiit was 2 days for me to get it published19:30
djszapiwithout mentioning the ambassador thingie19:30
dymaxionThanks v much guys... can now sleep in peace... 1.30am off to bed!    holding for like 20s did the trick....19:30
djszapidymaxion: wait19:30
djszapiyou said it is discharged...19:31
jpwhitingdjszapi: very nice19:31
dymaxioni'm still here ;-)19:31
djszapihow does it allow to flash ?19:31
djszapiuntil 11% ?19:31
djszapijpwhiting: there are minor bugs, and still not localized, but I think it is enjoyable :P19:31
dymaxionI'm not trying to flash yet... i just did the hard power off 20s, and plugged into wall charger... the low level charge icon is now showing... so I'm going to leave it a few hours and see what happens...19:31
djszapicannot you use the --0wait option ?19:32
danielcbitdymaxion: glad it worked!19:32
itsnotabigtruckC:\Windows\system32>"c:\Program Files (x86)\Nokia\Flasher\flasher.exe" --0wait19:32
itsnotabigtruckflasher 3.12.1 (Oct  6 2011) Harmattan19:32
itsnotabigtruckc:\Program Files (x86)\Nokia\Flasher\flasher.exe: unrecognised option `--0wait'19:32
danielcbitdymaxion: sometimes this happens with other devices too19:33
itsnotabigtrucksame result19:33
djszapidymaxion: if you can use that, it is better.19:33
djszapiheh, they did not expose it to externals19:33
djszapifunky :)19:33
djszapisuper cool feature really :)19:33
dymaxiondjszapi, I see...   wondering better in what way?19:33
djszapiyou do not need to manually start the flashing once it is charged19:34
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: because they gimped it for public release...just like everything else from nokia19:34
itsnotabigtruckthe header files, the repositories, the everything19:34
djszapiplus, it removes the reboot loop, if any.19:34
djszapinot in this case, but that is a very cool feature in general19:34
dymaxionaha... thanks useful indeed.19:34
djszapiso if you get into a reboot loop, goodbye without this option.19:34
dymaxionI have a hardware prob also with my N9.... the blasted USB flip lid...19:35
dymaxionthe plastic flap is bending... also the top layer of the plastic has started flaking off... peeling like it's cos some nasty skin disease! but peeling off to reveal a slightly darker, less matt layer of black... anyone else have this?19:35
itsnotabigtruckdymaxion: welome to the club :(19:36
dymaxionperhaps Nokia care can send me a new usb door to replace it.19:36
dymaxionitsnotabigtruck, sounds like a manufacturing fault with the plastic surely ?19:36
itsnotabigtruckhaven't had the peeling yet, but i put it in my pocket without being aware the lid was open, and put a nice bend in it19:36
itsnotabigtruckfortunately i could bend it back19:36
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dymaxionhmm.. i think mine has bent exactly to match the joint with the internal springy flap on the other side... design fault ... shame... was a nice idea... just not practical19:37
djszapibefr0d: ping19:37
itsnotabigtruck i ordered oneof these but they're backordered19:37
itsnotabigtruckno idea about contacting nokia directly, that could be pushing your luck19:38
djszapiit is worse, trust me :P19:38
dymaxionitsnotabigtruck, surely Nokia should replace... I'd argue it's not wear and tear, but full on manufacturing prob if it's flaking off! :-(  dodgy plastic  oh well may as well try my luck!19:38
djszapiat least with the software teams :P19:38
itsnotabigtruckgood point, it sounds like it started screwing up on its own19:38
itsnotabigtruckvs bending it yourself19:39
itsnotabigtruckif you're in a country where they actually provide some modicum of post purchase support, yeah, contact them19:39
itsnotabigtruckbecause it is a replaceable part19:39
itsnotabigtruckbut they might insist you send the phone in rather than send you the part, even though the lid is supposed to be able to be pulled directly out19:39
itsnotabigtruckwhen i had trouble with the keyboard on my thinkpad, i called in and they overnighted me a new keyboard, with a box and return label to send the old keyboard back in19:40
itsnotabigtruckif only other tech companies did that sort of thing19:40
dymaxionI wonder if Nokia HK will replace the door as if it was a Lumia door?  since they only sell Lumia in HK and not N9 :-/19:40
itsnotabigtruckso you're not in a country where they actually provide some modicum of post purchase support :p19:41
itsnotabigtruckhmmm...well, first, check if the lumia door actually is the same p/n19:41
dymaxionHP had the funniest thing... I had a microserver N36L fault... they sent an engineer next day, with spare PSU, Motherboard, SAS backplane.. !  that's basically all there is inside the entire box ! may as well have sent me a new one!19:41
itsnotabigtruckfind the lumia 800 service manual (nokia stores are leaky ships so practically every nokia service manual/flashing program/etc. gets on the internet)19:42
itsnotabigtruckthere should be a part number for the door like I0001, but that isn't the actual order number for the door19:42
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itsnotabigtruckthen just google lumia 800 + that19:42
itsnotabigtruck02698S8  02699M4  02699M319:43
itsnotabigtruckthose are the N9 doors19:43
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dymaxionthanks itsnotabigtruck , I'm busy googling :-)19:44
itsnotabigtruckdid a little searching myself, turns out the lumia door and n9 door have different part numbers19:45
itsnotabigtruckthat doesn't mean they aren't compatible, though it's not a good sign19:45
befr0dhi djszapi19:45
itsnotabigtruckapparently lumia 800 manufacturing was outsourced vs n9 production in house19:46
itsnotabigtruckwhich could explain different part numbers for similar parts19:46
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befr0dhi djszapiN919:47
dymaxionthanks for the help.. I think I'll contact Singapore tomorrow... need sleep.. nice chatting guys.. thanks19:47
befr0dhi itsnotabigtruck19:48
itsnotabigtruckhey befr0d19:49
djszapiN9beford, not actual anymore.19:51
dymaxionanyone know if it's possible to polish the N9 gorilla glass?  I've seen two micro scratches, but affect the display because they appear as multi coloured line when combined with light coming from the  pentile matrix19:51
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djszapiN9dymaxion, cannot sleep, excited ? ;)19:52
djszapiN9hola firevampire_19:52
firevampire_no iam testing nemo19:53
djszapiN9beford, someone had a patched stuff to run mac in vm19:53
djszapiN9prolly not legit19:53
itsnotabigtruckbtw stuff is a mass noun19:53
dymaxiondjszapi, naa just trying to fight the inner insomniac !    so annoyed have taken such good care of it... dunno how I got 2 scratches on my N9 glass :-(19:53
djszapiN9it is interesting that apple has a patent for swipe unlock19:54
* itsnotabigtruck is still indecisive on getting a proper case for the N9, besides the inbox sleeve19:54
djszapiN9and they already sued some android vendors19:54
itsnotabigtruckand i haven't been able to get any good recommendations from anybody :(19:55
befordabout what itsnotabigtruck19:55
dymaxionitsnotabigtruck, I've stopped using my N9 sleeve, because it takes away part of the beauty of the phone... the only type of case I might get is one of those pouch types with the pull strap that pops your phone out completely... sock type19:55
dymaxionnot seen one for N9, but my friend had a nice leather one for his iphone, and pops out, leaving the phone in all it's naked glory19:56
befordoh the case19:56
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firevampire_one question is there any posibility to get a n950?19:57
befordprobably no19:57
djszapiN9firevampire_, if you pay me a lot ;)19:59
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djszapiN9as in ... there is no abort option for stopping the fetching of the app from ovi in the client ?19:59
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firevampire_djszapiN9: iam not rich a got also a n900 if u are interestat :p20:01
djszapiN9have three ;)20:02
firevampire_and how many n9 and n950?20:05
itsnotabigtruckdymaxion: exactly, that's one of the main reasons i want to lose the sleeve20:05
firevampire_why u have need 320:05
itsnotabigtruckbecause it bulks up the phone20:05
itsnotabigtruckfirevampire_: because he's a nokia subcontractor20:06
itsnotabigtruckand i'm pretty sure they already distributed all the N950s they produced :(20:06
itsnotabigtruckand they're all owned (well, possessed, anyway) by employees/contractors or people tied up in non-resale agreements20:07
firevampire_oh thats explain and is a reason :(20:07
itsnotabigtrucktechnically they're all nokia property and could be clawed back at any time20:08
firevampire_sry to getting on u nervs20:08
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itsnotabigtruckyo admiral020:17
admiral0yo :)20:17
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, no they did distribute all.20:21
pahi, im trying to use fbreader. i read i have to put books in the Books directory in the memory card20:21
pameaning where?20:21
djszapiN9firevampire_, 2 N950s, 3 N920:22
paotherwise it does not start at all it seems20:22
paany idea?20:25
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN9: hm? are you agreeing or contradicting, because that's what i said :p20:26
ieatlintdjszapiN9: you need more20:27
ieatlintalso, dev certs20:27
djszapiN9itsnotabigtruck, they did not distribute them all20:33
paok, the deb from the store is corrupted20:34
pathats why20:34
djszapiN9anybody going to cebit ?20:34
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firevampire_no this year iam not there20:53
danielcbitIs there any developer here?20:54
itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: plenty, what's your question20:55
ieatlintnope, but i'm a marketing guy20:55
ieatlintso i can answer the more important questions20:55
danielcbitGreat. I'm developing an application that requires some restricted credentials. The mce:TKLockControl being the most important one.20:56
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danielcbitHow can I test my Application if aegis does not grant me the needed credentials:20:57
RST38hieatlint: Like whether the box needs to beblack or blue?20:58
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ieatlintyes, i insist we paint the shed red20:59
danielcbitI see that some apps in Ovi store have the kind of credentials I want to use, so when I send for publishing, I'll not have this problem. But right now I need to test the app20:59
jonnidanielcbit: well you cant, since you are not allowed to use that credential as 3rd party.20:59
jonnithat credential is only allowed for nokia internal apps20:59
AppiahI dont really understand this stuff with aegis, I cant write a application that mounts SSH? (SSHFS) ?21:00
Appiahor can but N9 wont run it21:00
jonniAppiah: true, all mount commands are protected and only allowed to be used by internal apps.21:00
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danielcbit has access to dsme::DeviceStateControl21:01
jonnidanielcbit: that is kind of a bug, most likely QA will remove that app or tells the app developer to fix its aegis.21:01
Appiahwell then I can scratch some ideas from my list of apps to create21:01
danielcbitdsme::DeviceStateControl is a restricted capability21:02
jonnidanielcbit: ovi store qa approved that app by mistake, most likely.21:02
danielcbitok, but how did he tested first? Without even submitting to ovi store?21:03
danielcbithow did he got access to that credential?21:03
jonniunknown origin deb packages get same credentials that ovi store is provifing21:03
itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: that credential was automatically added to the manifest21:04
itsnotabigtruckthere's a good chance the app doesn't actually exercise it at all21:04
jonniso if you have developer mode, you can test your package21:04
djszapiahh cebit and MWC are at the same time21:05
itsnotabigtruckeven if ovi store approves a package that asserts verboten credentials, they won't actually be enabled when you install the package21:05
djszapior mmh..nope.21:05
danielcbitI added the TKLockControl to my manifest file, but I always get denied 'mce::TKLockControl' -- origin '' does not allow it21:05
danielcbiton Qt Creator21:05
djszapidanielcbit: yes, of course21:05
djszapiyou are not allowed to do that21:05
djszapiuse develsh/developer mode.21:05
jonnidanielcbit: yes, you are not allowed to use that, so just remove that from your aegis file21:05
djszapithat is what you are allowed to do21:05
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_MeeGoBot_Bug 114 nor, Normal, ---, ext-risto.lahti, ASSI, MeeGo::QmLocks::setState can't unlock device because MCE::TKLockControl aegis security token is unav21:06
djszapiand that is a big wontfix21:07
itsnotabigtruckbug got turned down for basically "because we say so"21:07
danielcbitEven without this capability requirement at manifest file, I'll still be able to use the lock methods?21:07
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itsnotabigtruckwelcome to aegis :/21:07
djszapidanielcbit: no21:07
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djszapiagain, you can only use what develsh provide.21:07
danielcbitYeah, aegis really sucks..21:07
djszapiit is not about aegis21:08
djszapiit is about the ovi source policy decisions.21:08
jonnionly nokia apps can modify locks.21:08
* RST38h yawns21:08
RST38hRemove Aegis - and it works, policy decisions or not21:08
RST38hHence, Aegis is to blame, physically21:08
danielcbitOk. So, another question. Is there any way I can disable the status info menu from showing?21:09
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jonnidanielcbit: what is status info menu? which menu you mean21:09
* djszapi would never remove aegis, just override the policy decisions.21:10
danielcbitSorry, it is: status indicator menu21:10
jonnithat info does that menu show+21:10
itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: see pm21:11
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danielcbitthe menu that is show when you click at status bar where you can change profile, bluetooth status and so on21:12
jonnijust make full screen app that doesnt show the menu? :)21:13
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jonnithat doesnt show the status-bar even21:13
danielcbitstatus bar has to be shown. It is a must have21:13
jonnino it doesnt have to be shown.21:14
djszapidanielcbit: why would you need this ? Can you share the use case ?21:14
jonnidanielcbit: status bar is optional, it is not ovi store requirement to be shown.21:14
djszapijonni: I think he means the info menu, not the statusbar itself.21:15
jonniatleast my ovi store apps dont show statusbar21:15
jonnibut without statusbar, he cannot open info menu :)21:15
jonniproblem solved :)21:16
djszapiit seems he would like to get the statusbar, but not the statusmenu.21:16
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djszapifor whatever reason, that is why I asked for the use case :)21:16
danielcbitcorrect djszapi21:16
danielcbitcoz with status menu the user could to any other parts of the system21:16
djszapicould what ?21:17
danielcbitblowing aways the functionality of my app21:17
danielcbitthat is to lock the device21:17
jonnibut your app cannot lock the device anyways, there is always the powerbutton+swipe from down to up21:18
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teleshoesmce.ini double-press21:18
jonnito access any other parts of the sustem21:18
danielcbitI could address that21:18
danielcbitthis part is solved21:18
danielcbitbut has this status menu flaw21:19
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jonnijust do fullscreen, and it blocks the menu flaw21:19
danielcbitLast question21:20
jonniand ovi store qa will deny the submission if you edit powerkey functionality by editing mce.ini21:20
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danielcbitjonni: didn't know that.21:22
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danielcbitIs there any way I can prevent notifications from showing in the lock screen (after double tapping)?21:23
danielcbitfor exaple, update notification can take directly to the software update app, bypassing my app21:23
jonniby killing the notification server, but again it would not pass ovi store qa, but is possible on your personal device21:23
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danielcbitjonni: only this way?21:24
teleshoestheres a css file, if im not mistaken21:25
jonniyou would also need to set idle timeout to unlimited, because if it goes to sleep screen, you can get out of the app21:25
jonniI did that kind of locking app a few months ago, but I never released it.21:26
danielcbitWhat I wanted to do was to just hide these notifications so the user couldn't access other apps while my app is locking the phone21:27
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djszapicannot you use jonni's baby lock ?21:27
djszapiohh you wanted to do that programatically...21:27
djszapiwell replicate the code :D21:28
jonnidanielcbit: you could ofcourse just mark all the notifications as read / remove then when they arrive. I did a command line tool for notifications few monts ago21:29
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djszapihi Venemo_N95021:29
jonni(or actually babylock uses that for sending notifications on the screen)21:29
Venemo_N950hey djszapi :)21:30
djszapiVenemo_N950: how is stuff ? :)21:30
danielcbitjonni: thats a great idea.  The codIs publicaly avaliable21:31
jonnianyways noway to do foolproof lock app, as policies block it, someone can just call your phone number, and go away from your lock app, from the incoming call notification screen :)21:32
Venemo_N950djszapi, good, thanks :)21:32
jonniyou need to switch to offline mode first21:32
Venemo_N950djszapi, new version of Puzzle Master is out in the Store, new IRC Chatter is in progress :)21:33
jonni+ you need to block nfc notifications21:33
danielcbitjonni: the command line tool you mentioned, is it publicly available?21:35
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sigmaorionhi there! Djszapi, I've been trying to play audio through phonon, as per your advice, but I get no sound at all!!22:20
sigmaorionif you are ok with it, I can paste my code for your review... I've been googling around and found my code once and once again... it should work! (on N9)22:21
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itsnotabigtruckhas anyone poked around at the WL1271 drivers available from ti to see if any of these features are available22:46
itsnotabigtrucklooks like fm radio already didn't require any k-side changes22:46
djszapisigmaorion: no sorry, working on other stuff...22:46
sigmaoriondjszapi, sure, thanks anyway... I'll keep working on it :)22:47
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itsnotabigtruckit's a shame the N9 ships with the WL1271 and not 1273 (has 5 gig wifi)22:54
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danielcbitThe strange thing is that i could see and connect to a 5 Ghz N network in my N922:57
itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: really?22:57
itsnotabigtruckmaybe it has a WL1273 then22:57
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itsnotabigtruckdanielcbit: are you sure it wasn't a dual-frequency network22:58
danielcbitYea. It worked well. And I'm sure it was at 5 Ghz. I configured the Acess Point.22:58
itsnotabigtruckindeed, it has WL1273 - my bad22:58
itsnotabigtruckit's referred to as WL1271 everywhere in the firmware, but that's probably because the chips are almost the same thing22:59
itsnotabigtruckwell that's cool stuff, 2.4ghz only is the norm for anything except mid-high range laptops23:00
danielcbitI was starting to think that I was the only one with 5 Ghz support :D23:00
danielcbitbut bluetooth 4 support would be greate23:00
danielcbitas well as FMTX23:01
itsnotabigtruckapparently bluetooth 3.0 = bluetooth over wifi, and bluetooth 4.0 = bluetooth low power23:01
itsnotabigtruckthe latter is supported by wl127x but only on later steppings23:01
itsnotabigtruckthe former has no software support23:01
itsnotabigtruckhowever it does support EDR2 and EDR3 modulation, which is apparently also part of bluetooth 3.0?23:02
danielcbitbluetooth 4 introduced low power but is backwards compatible with bluetooth 323:02
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bluesleeis there a list of useful dbus commands for n9(50)? compare phone control for n900 ...23:18
bluesleecan i make a screenshot of the standby screen of the n9?23:19
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itsnotabigtruckblueslee: concerning the standby screen, yeah, but i'm not sure how23:22
itsnotabigtruckconcerning the dbus commands, didn't you ask that before?23:22
itsnotabigtruckthat said, i'm not aware of any :(23:22
itsnotabigtruckit's a shame there hasn't been much of an effort to document this stuff, seeing that nokia didn't really23:22
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: hehe, yes i asked before ... i tried some of the dbus commands which worked for the n900, most of them do not work for the n9(50)23:23
gabriel9i dont get nokia23:23
gabriel9what are they want?23:23
gabriel9they release phone and then trying to burry it23:24
gabriel9stupid people do stupid things23:24
bluesleei was really suprised that opera and mozilla officially start supporting the platform as it is more or less dead from a global standpoint23:25
gabriel9well they suport it becouse there is userbase23:25
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gabriel9where are the users there is monney :)23:25
itsnotabigtruckgabriel9: large hand doesn't know what the other is doing23:25
gabriel9becouse of that i like small companies23:25
itsnotabigtruckthat and some mind bogglingly stupid decisions from the N9 team, from marketing, and from nokia executives23:26
gabriel9djszapi ping23:26
gabriel9but still it is nice device23:26
gabriel9that can't no one denied23:26
bluesleei am also happy to have this device, i guess at least for the next 2-3 years23:26
itsnotabigtruckthat's the's an amazing piece of hardware, running an amazing OS23:26
itsnotabigtruckit's just that there's all these little letdowns in various places23:27
gabriel9yes and mybe in some strange universe they will give us new N923:27
itsnotabigtruckand most of those letdowns are entirely under nokia's control23:27
gabriel9it's all bullshit if you ask me23:27
bluesleeand i am pretty sure that the community is and will be productive, hopefully android, h-e-n, easy debian etc will come to n923:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, setting all else aside the lack of a physical keyboard is catastrophic to easy debian23:28
gabriel9good side is Qt, it is really good framework and have great comunity23:28
gabriel9yes we need physical keyboard23:28
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bluesleefor me its okay that a big company controls such an ecosystem, i am thinking of openmoko/freerunner, a complete open model does not seem to work23:28
itsnotabigtruckthe problem is such a small subset of the system is open source23:28
itsnotabigtruckon one hand, obviously nokia isn't some sort of charity23:29
itsnotabigtruckbusiness interests always come first, and they don't want some competitor cloning the OS they spent massive r&d budget on23:29
bluesleeyeah, that is clear23:29
itsnotabigtruckbut at the same time, maemo/harmattan is an edge case23:29
itsnotabigtruckit's heavily based on open source software, it has a userbase full of open source users23:30
gabriel9this whoke IT industry is one big mess23:30
bluesleebut maemo/harmattan is the best choice out there at least for me23:30
itsnotabigtruckprevious maemo versions had a significantly larger amount of open source code23:30
itsnotabigtruckand moreover, competitors wouldn't generally have any use for most of the code anyway23:30
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: you mean maemo5?23:30
itsnotabigtruckfor example consider the email client23:30
itsnotabigtruckeverybody else already has their own email client, and the one on N9 is highly dependent on the harmattan system23:31
bluesleeotherwise it is clear that if gsm enters the game there will be closed parts23:31
itsnotabigtruckit has no use to competitors23:31
itsnotabigtruckbut at the same time, it does have use to the community, which could enhance it23:31
itsnotabigtruckopen code = being able to follow through with what nokia started, at no cost to nokia23:31
itsnotabigtruckalso blueslee: yeah, maemo523:32
itsnotabigtrucke.g. hildon, modest, and a bunch of other stuff were OSS23:32
itsnotabigtrucknokia's version of meegotouch, fenix, etc. are not23:32
itsnotabigtruckalso, the GSM radio is totally distinct from the main cpu and it has its own firmware23:34
itsnotabigtruckso no, there don't have to be any closed parts even with gsm in the game23:34
bluesleeyou are right, but there are other drwabacks too from a community point of view, i miss a central forum (there are two) and a central repo23:34
itsnotabigtruckbut that said, there's no need to open up things like the cellular services daemon23:34
itsnotabigtruckthe frontend is what matters - and that's what's the most closed off :/23:35
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Venemo_N950djszapi, ping23:35
itsnotabigtruckand the lack of a proper central point for user apps besides ovi store (which is terrible) is a MAJOR problem23:35
bluesleeas a non developer i can live with the most of it ... in the beginning i thought that aegis would be a complete deal breaker23:36
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kozziman i wish I could kill off all those rss apps23:36
itsnotabigtruckno kidding23:37
gabriel9they are not apps23:37
kozzisome of them are named like an app with a hefty price, and then you realise their version number and ugly interface23:38
kozzimake me rage23:38
bluesleeevertyhing is an app, a simple link to a webpage, a ringtone a wallpaper23:38
itsnotabigtruckit's one thing to have a highly stylized interface to a magazine or something like that23:38
gabriel9for me thery are not23:38
itsnotabigtruckthe sort of thing that's fairly common now on ios23:38
itsnotabigtruckbut some garbage cookie cutter rss app?23:38
bluesleegabriel9: that was irony23:38
itsnotabigtruckexpunge them with prejudice23:38
kozziI really like how integrated maemo is, I don't need app for everything. just add an account23:39
bluesleeall you need is a good browser and you can remove 20% of the apps23:39
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gabriel9we need more games23:40
gabriel9they are magnet for users23:40
bluesleekozzi: mee to, i even removed the calendar icon as its refered in the event screen23:40
itsnotabigtruckkozzi: yeah, the integrated nature of the messaging system is excellent23:40
itsnotabigtruckbut it's also a problem because the frontend for that is all closed23:40
itsnotabigtruckfor example i'd like to eventually do a secure messaging system, but there's no way i'm aware of to add new GUI elements to control it23:41
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Venemo_N950djszapi, ping23:42
kozzimany im services are moving toward xmpp, doesnt this it will get easier to implement to messaging system?23:42
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kozziircing on n9 is a good way to practise typing on n9 kb23:44
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Venemo_N950someone ping me please in a minute. I'm testing notifications in my irc client :)23:46
itsnotabigtruckkozzi: except that nokia wrote an XMPP plugin, but then gimped it to google talk /only/23:47
itsnotabigtrucki'm contemplating reinventing that wheel to make a generalized XMPP plugin that uses telepathy-gabble native xmpp support23:47
itsnotabigtruckbut that shouldn't be necessary to begin with23:48
itsnotabigtruckthere's extraplugins already, which uses telepathy-haze (pidgin-telepathy interface)23:48
kozziitsnotabigtruck is it going to require aegis free mod?23:49
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itsnotabigtruckkozzi: nah, account plugins don't require special aegis privileges23:50
kozziwonder why nokia does it this way though. sounds quite dumb23:50
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itsnotabigtruckkozzi: because they're too focused on making deals with other companies23:57
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itsnotabigtruckgeneric xmpp doesn't have any major brand names backing it23:57
itsnotabigtruckand of course it's also fairly niche23:57
itsnotabigtruckwhereas for google talk, it's "oh yeah, that thing i have with my gmail"23:57
kozziheh, wasn't it same with n900?23:59

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