IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2012-02-09

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ieatlinthah, so a major nokia manager has stated that there is no plan b should wp7 fail00:50
ieatlintnot that there was much question that harmattan was truly dead00:51
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admiral0ieatlint: eh? explain00:54
ieatlintfrom an interview in swedish originally...
ieatlintplan b is they liquidate i suspect00:56
ieatlint(their smart phone biz)00:56
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Venemo_N950who cares anymore?00:57
ieatlintthey're not on a burning platform anymore, they're on one that has yet to break the water surface00:57
ieatlintVenemo_N950: it's like watching a train wreck00:57
ieatlintyou can't look away00:57
Venemo_N950Harmattan was not a burning platform, it just suffered from mismanagement00:58
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ieatlintsymbian was00:58
Venemo_N950srsly, why doesn't Nokia just ship 10 more Harmattan devices????00:58
Venemo_N950Harmattan requires very little polishing00:59
Venemo_N950and everyone loves the ui00:59
ieatlintbecause a successful mobile platform these days requires 3rd party app support01:00
ieatlintand even wp7 has better app support than harmattan01:00
ieatlintnokia tried VERY hard to get 3rd party apps written for symbian/harmattan01:01
ieatlintthey were laughed away most of the time01:01
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: well, maybe they said that just to reaffirm how committed they are to wp7 or something01:01
itsnotabigtruckyou know, "there's no plan b because we KNOW plan a will work"01:01
Clint"failure is not an option"01:01
ieatlintitsnotabigtruck: no idea... i also don't know nokia's management structure. it's also very possible he simply isn't actually aware of all the projects/plans01:02
itsnotabigtruckbut yeah, nokia is sort of like the van in inception01:02
itsnotabigtruckthat said, the big wp7 plan could work...i suppose the idea is to reposition themselves as the /premium/ wp7 vendor01:03
itsnotabigtruckbecause the other wp7 phones out there just don't seem very premium01:04
ieatlintat the end of the second quarter, they'll have a good idea what will happen01:04
ieatlintnokia wp7 devices have gone on sale in the US, or are about it01:05
itsnotabigtruckalso, a big part of the problem is: where is a huge part of software development done01:05
itsnotabigtruckthe US01:05
itsnotabigtruckthe market that nokia has continually ignored for about 10 years01:05
ieatlintif by the end of q2 they don't see any real adoption...01:05
itsnotabigtruckif most programmers don't know what symbian even is, why would they program for it01:06
ieatlinthaha, i got into a rather.. "heated" discussion with knut about that last winter, and how nokia failed so badly in the US01:06
itsnotabigtruckalso something like harmattan is what nokia should have centered around 3 or 4 years ago01:06
itsnotabigtrucksymbian touchscreen was an abject failure01:06
ieatlinthe tried to explain to me how it's cheaper for me to buy my phones out-right rather than get a discount and sign a contract with a carrier01:07
itsnotabigtruckit was really good on phones like the E7101:07
itsnotabigtruckbut symbian s60 has a gui that's based entirely on keypad controlled popup menus and such, you can't just slap a touchscreen on top of that01:07
ieatlintthey shouldn't have done it.. they did01:08
admiral0the new symbian belle is nice01:08
itsnotabigtruckalso, symbian s60 phones are more "phones with smarts" than "smartphones"01:08
admiral0but it's years late01:08
itsnotabigtrucknothing wrong with that, my e71 was the stuff back in the day01:08
ieatlintand thus, a platform developed in like 1994 is still being released on phones today01:08
itsnotabigtruckbut it means that you can't put that against the iphone and modern top-of-the-line android phones01:08
ieatlintMS took less time to go "oh shit, maybe we should stop this" ... they learnt a little from windows me anyway01:09
itsnotabigtruckalso, while it can be cheaper to buy unlocked, a) nokia isn't the only company selling unlocked phones, and b) nokia did zero marketing in north america01:10
itsnotabigtrucknobody ever got ad blitzed about the n95, e71, n97, etc.01:10
ieatlintthere were n95 adverts where i live01:10
ieatlinton bus stops and such01:10
itsnotabigtruckif no one hears about their products, why would they buy them, cost effective or not01:10
itsnotabigtruckall that aside, as much as i dislike nokia dumping maemo/harmattan the lumia 900 could move some units01:11
itsnotabigtruckthough the 900 looks too large01:11
itsnotabigtruckit seems like the trend is toward gigantic phones that barely fit in a pocket, i don't understand01:12
itsnotabigtruckthere's smaller android phones but they're all low-spec low-end models01:12
itsnotabigtruckthe N9 is already imo stretching the limit of pocketability, and it's smaller than a lot of the android phones01:12
ieatlinteh, wp7 faces some of the same issues harmattan would've... namely, momentum01:13
ieatlintpeople want iphone and android01:13
itsnotabigtruckwp7 has a tonne of games01:13
itsnotabigtruckfewer than iphone i'm sure, but wp7 does have xbl integration01:13
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: are you kidding?01:16
admiral0now you can only develop in XNA.01:17
ieatlinti'm pretty sure harmattan failed because it didn't have a grindr app01:17
itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: yeah, but xna also makes it way easier to implement games01:18
ieatlintgames that can't be ported to/from wp701:18
itsnotabigtruckalso it makes it fairly easy to port in stuff from xbox live arcade01:18
admiral0consider this01:18
itsnotabigtruckalso there's a number of pc games built in xna01:18
ieatlintxna is kinda odd from the very little i've seen01:18
admiral0you have a game for android/iPhone01:18
itsnotabigtrucknot all xbox live arcade games are xna based, but some are01:19
itsnotabigtruckthose can be ported01:19
admiral0you cannot have a C++ lib/engine01:19
admiral0and change things in the frontend01:19
admiral0you have to rewrite everything01:19
admiral0and you don't have XNA on other devices01:20
admiral0so why should you port?01:20
ieatlintbecause nokia sold 600k lumias in 2011, and that's a LOT!01:21
ieatlintyeah, the native lib and opengl support of harmattan were big advantages01:22
admiral0they also seem to have sold more N901:22
ieatlintoh look, it uses industry-wide specs? weird!01:22
itsnotabigtruckkeep in mind the lumia launched in late 2011 and there's many other wp7 phones already out there01:23
itsnotabigtruckthere's certainly well more than 600k wp7 phones total out there01:23
ieatlintfinding a wp7 phone in the wild has proven less common than finding a webos phone in my experience01:23
itsnotabigtruckalso the lumia 900 hasn't launched yet and i expect nokia to push that hard in the us01:23
itsnotabigtruckthough android and iphone already dominated the market01:24
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ieatlintyeah, we'll know when the second quarter figures are out01:24
ieatlintbut they're going to have to heavily discount the phones to make sure they move... there's no profit margin on the horizon for them right now01:24
ieatlint(would also be largely true for harmattan)01:25
itsnotabigtruckno profit margin on a $600 phone?01:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, nokia probably sunk a ton of r&d expenditure into harmattan01:27
ieatlinti meant that to move the n9 in large quantities it needs to be subsidized01:27
itsnotabigtruckbut since it was developed assuming it wouldn't be killed the moment it was about to launch, it seems odd to attribute sunk r&d costs to the n901:27
ieatlintand for carriers to bother, nokia will need to take a hit01:28
itsnotabigtruckoh, right01:28
ieatlintgetting someone to adopt a new phone platform is not always easy... typically price point is going to be the best bet in getting it done01:28
itsnotabigtruckof course nokia management themselves ensured the n9 won't move by excluding the largest markets01:28
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itsnotabigtruckuk: nope, germany: nope, usa: nope, canada: nope, france: nope01:29
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itsnotabigtruck(not sure if i got that right)01:29
ieatlinti think it might have sold in france01:29
ieatlintnot sure01:29
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itsnotabigtruckthey basically excluded all the large western countries01:29
itsnotabigtruckyou know, places with lots of people who would buy expensive phones01:30
itsnotabigtruckwell, australia is large physically, but you know what i mean01:30
itsnotabigtruckand i just checked, it wasn't marketed in france01:31
itsnotabigtrucki think they basically excluded anywhere that they intended to launch a wp7 marketing push later on for01:31
ieatlintouch, you mean the aussies don't get wp7?01:32
ieatlintpoor guys..01:32
itsnotabigtruckwell, i assume they'll launch it there, but maybe they won't turn the marketing knob to 1101:32
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itsnotabigtruckbtw is it possible that fopen, fread, fwrite, fseek, or fclose could return EINTR01:35
itsnotabigtrucki've had a hard time finding a precise answer01:35
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itsnotabigtruckieatlint: with glibc, on linux?01:44
itsnotabigtruck(note: not open, read, write, lseek, and close - but the stdio versions)01:45
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ieatlintmy man page says that at least fclose can return any error from close/write/fflush01:45
ieatlintwhich would include EINTR01:45
itsnotabigtruckright, i saw that on a stackoverflow post01:46
itsnotabigtruckbut i thought that might be based on the posix standard01:46
itsnotabigtruckwhich basically says anything can fail for any reason01:46
itsnotabigtruckexcept a lot of those error conditions don't actually exist in reality01:46
itsnotabigtrucki just hate writing reams of additional code to handle fringe scenarios like eintr01:47
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DrGrovadmiral0: Lpsmagic 1.3 worked flawlessly. No issues at all after rebooting :)02:08
DrGrovadmiral0: Absolutely great work on Lpsmagic. It is a life saver for me :)02:09
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artemmaHey, my two new apps just got published today!02:20
* artemma is happy02:20
faenilwhat are them about02:22
artemmaWell, it's free and paid version of the same thing actually. Limits amount of swype languages used - so that you won't need to tap twenty times if you just use two langs02:22
faeniloh ok02:22
artemma#PR12 has same functionality right in settings :D02:22
the-boss`artemma: Error: "PR12" is not a valid command.02:22
ieatlinthah, yeah, that is annoying02:22
ieatlinti just hold down on the language selector and it pops up a menu02:23
artemmathough my app still looks nicer and it's faster to get to it than to settings page :D02:23
artemmaieatlint: that's what I hated about swype - wasting lots of time on that dialog02:23
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ieatlinti only seem to hit that when drunk now though :P02:24
artemmaBTW, if interested, I can send a paid version e.g. by email02:24
artemmafor #harmattan channel developers02:25
ieatlinti might hit you up for that02:25
artemmafree version allows you to decrease the number of langs to 802:25
artemmaPro lets you live with just one if you want02:25
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itsnotabigtruckbtw is there some reason why has become so stale05:03
itsnotabigtruckt.m.o has become the defacto place to talk about harmattan but the rest of the site is stuck in time05:04
itsnotabigtruckalso the forums relegate harmattan stuff into a corner e.g. no proper place for posting about harmattan apps05:04
Jeffrey04very much agree05:19
Jeffrey04why do they get so annoyed with harmattan?05:20
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SazpaimonJeffrey04, because most of them cant afford or otherwise cant get an N905:38
Sazpaimonhowever yes, TMO's segregation of harmattan is a bit disgusting05:38
Jeffrey04imo, i think they get annoyed because harmattan does not come with hildon lol05:39
Jeffrey04hence the thread asking nokia to revive n900 by releasing a sucessor lol05:39
Sazpaimonwith some effort fremantle could be ported to another device05:40
Sazpaimonsome major effort05:40
Sazpaimonit'd need to have enough hardware with open source drivers to port to the fremantle kernel05:41
Sazpaimonand then the userland would need a lot of work beyond that05:41
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Sazpaimonbut anyone that has that ability knows what a futile effort that is05:41
Jeffrey04just out of curiousity, what's the difference btw fremantle and cordia05:42
Jeffrey04nvr had an n900 tho05:42
Sazpaimonfremantle is the actual OS05:42
Sazpaimonfremantle = maemo 505:42
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Sazpaimoncordia is a clone of hildon's UI to native gtk05:42
Jeffrey04yea, i know :)05:42
Jeffrey04so hildon ui is not native gtk?05:43
Sazpaimonthough i cant remember if it was ported to Qt05:43
Sazpaimonhildon is native gtk05:43
Sazpaimonbut I believe that hildon's gtk has a lot of patches05:43
Sazpaimonand of course hildon-desktop only really works on maemo 505:44
Sazpaimoncordia is cross-platform05:44
Jeffrey04it gets pretty annoying when the community don't like n9 users in general05:45
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Sazpaimoneven though libhildon is in debian05:45
Jeffrey04and nobody knows how long is gonna survive :P05:45
Sazpaimonnobody know how long is going to survive05:45
Sazpaimonnokia could theoretically pull the plug on the site at any time05:46
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djszapiwow, I had some sweet dreams. I was invited to a conference for a talk, and next billion devices were given out lol05:47
SazpaimonJeffrey04, the thing about the N9 and TMO isnt new though05:47
Sazpaimonwhen N900 came out there was hostility from N8x0 users05:48
Jeffrey04didn't know that05:48
Sazpaimonpeople complaining that nokia wasnt focusing on the tablet aspect of maemo anymore05:48
Sazpaimonbecause N900 was the first maemo device to have cellular capabilitys05:48
Sazpaimonwell, unless you include the ill fated N810 wimax edition05:48
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Sazpaimonalso I believe maemo 5 had more closed components than maemo 405:49
Sazpaimonwhich raised some ire from people05:49
Jeffrey04lol, harmattan is definitely > closed than fremantle05:50
Sazpaimonive heard it all from TMO users though regarding maemo 505:50
Sazpaimon"smaller device" "not a tablet" "too closed" "no dpad"05:50
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: lolll05:51
Sazpaimoneventually they adjust05:52
Sazpaimonmight not happen with N9 though05:52
Jeffrey04but n900 users keep claiming they are having a tablet instead of a cellphone05:52
Sazpaimonits too different05:52
Sazpaimonnokia billed the N900 as a tablit05:52
itsnotabigtruckit is a damn shame N9 doesn't have access to maemo's zillion apps05:52
Sazpaimonfuck cant type tonight05:52
djszapianybody with PR1.1 firmware05:53
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: yeah, why?05:53
Jeffrey04i am with pr1.105:53
Sazpaimonitsnotabigtruck, the gtk is ported to harmattan05:53
itsnotabigtruckthat reminds me, i need to make a thread for my calendar program before it becomes obsolete05:53
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I have tested my app with PR1.0 and PR1.2, and I need somebody to test with PR1.1 for making sure.05:53
itsnotabigtruckSazpaimon: well, the GUIs need reformatting though at the very minimum05:53
Sazpaimonnot really05:54
Sazpaimonhildon apps are pretty simple05:54
itsnotabigtruckand quick ports from maemo don't look anything like native apps05:54
itsnotabigtruckin fact, anything that hasn't had a lot of work put into nativizing it won't look anything like a native app05:54
Sazpaimonwell, no, thats true05:54
Sazpaimonbut maemo had a long, long time to migrate to Qt05:54
itsnotabigtrucke.g. all the harmattan apps with swiss instead of nokia pure05:54
itsnotabigtruck(i'm guessing swiss is the qml default)05:54
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: would you be so kind as to test this simple game then, please ?05:55
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: sure, put the deb somewhere and i'll load it up05:55
Sazpaimondjszapi, is this the anagram game05:55
Sazpaimonsorry I abandoned you with that05:55
Sazpaimonmy laptop broke down and thats taken my priority now05:55
Sazpaimonstill broken btw, the lid broke off05:55
Sazpaimonliterally just fell off05:56
djszapiyou betrayed me lol !! :)05:56
SazpaimonI had a maemo 5 chroot running on PR1.0 open mode a while back05:56
SazpaimonI used the SDK rootstrap05:56
Sazpaimonmany prorams worked, some segfaulted05:57
Sazpaimonpicodrive worked, for example05:57
Sazpaimonwhich made my N9 the first to run megadrive games until emumaster did it05:57
itsnotabigtruckhm, that file site needs better fonts :p05:57
djszapiI wish my dream came to reality :/05:57
Sazpaimondjszapi, I want your dream05:58
Sazpaimonexcept they were a billion N950s05:58
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Sazpaimona billion N950s, thats a lot of dead pixels05:59
djszapino, I wanna qt5 and qml2 based handsets.05:59
Jeffrey04i want a proper successor of n9 :P05:59
Sazpaimoncheck back in 2 years06:00
djszapithere is none06:00
djszapijust pure substitutes.06:00
itsnotabigtruckit's absolutely insane that nokia pulled the e-stop on harmattan, yet it still releases cookie cutter symbian phones06:00
itsnotabigtrucke.g. the entire current lineup06:00
itsnotabigtruckafter putting a ton of r&d work into making a fairly polished os that's already better than symbian touch ever was06:01
Sazpaimonsymbian belle is really nice though06:01
Sazpaimonat this point symbian is almost completely rewritten06:01
itsnotabigtruckok, deb installed06:01
Sazpaimonis belle even backwards compatible with S60?06:01
djszapiguys, have you seen the first cool symbian app ?06:01
djszapifinally there is one ?06:01
SazpaimonI know anna and S^3 had *some* backwards compatability06:02
djszapiFinally there's a killer app for Symbian, but it's quite a bit too late...
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: erm...i just lost some letters06:02
Sazpaimonbut i dont know if belle stripped out any remaining avkon components06:03
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itsnotabigtruckif you select a letter, then deselect it, sometimes it goes back up to the top section, sometimes it disappears06:03
itsnotabigtruckah, what's happening is that the letter always goes into the 1st box06:03
djszapiyou always deselect the last in the queue ?06:03
djszapithe box above is the anagram06:03
Jeffrey04gotta go :P have a nice day guys :)06:04
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djszapithe box below is the destination where you try to fill in the letters in the correct order.06:04
djszapinot all intuitive06:04
itsnotabigtruckso if i tap a letter in the anagram, then tap the letter in the destination06:04
djszapibut the most intuitive I found06:04
itsnotabigtruckwhich seems to be intended to put the letter back in the anagram06:04
itsnotabigtruckthe letter instead overwrites the 1st anagram letter and leaves an empty box06:04
djszapiif you tap on a letter06:04
djszapiwhich was a mistake06:05
itsnotabigtruckwhich makes the anagram impossible06:05
djszapiyou have a chance to revert it06:05
djszapiwhat do you mean ?06:05
itsnotabigtruckjust try up the game, then tap any letter other than the first one06:05
itsnotabigtruckthen tap that letter in the lower section06:05
itsnotabigtrucke.g. ARAMNNID06:06
itsnotabigtrucktap M06:06
itsnotabigtruckthen tap M again06:06
itsnotabigtrucknow it's MRA NNID06:06
itsnotabigtruckonly one A06:06
itsnotabigtrucknow the anagram can't be solved06:06
djszapinot for me06:06
SazpaimonI can solve it06:06
Sazpaimonwith my IMAGINATION06:06
djszapiit puts back to the correct index06:06
djszapiARAMNNID here.06:07
djszapiif I deselect the last letter in the queue06:07
itsnotabigtruckthen i suppose that's a pr1.1-specific bug, which would be awfully strange06:07
djszapiworked on 1.0 and pr 1.1 here.06:08
djszapisadly, I cannot reproduce06:08
itsnotabigtruckmake sure to test by tapping a letter in the middle of the word06:08
djszapibut I would like to help with fixing.06:08
itsnotabigtruckwithout having selected any other letters yet06:08
itsnotabigtrucknot sure what you mean by " the queue"06:08
djszapiI tested that all06:08
djszapiwell, you cannot deselect any letter in the destination06:08
djszapionly the last one06:08
itsnotabigtrucki restarted it and now it's working again06:09
djszapisince tap puts always into the last position inside the destination06:09
itsnotabigtruckso there's some trigger that needs to be found06:09
itsnotabigtruckhmm, i just got it to happen on the 2nd word06:09
itsnotabigtruckword 1: moagn - works fine06:09
itsnotabigtruckword 2: vloie - tap L twice and now it's l oie06:10
djszapiokay, I can reproduce this06:10
djszapiI just need to clean up the js array for next anagram then06:10
djszapianything else ?06:11
itsnotabigtruckthe box around the last digit of the countdown timer is cut off by the rounded corner extending from the system bar06:12
djszapithere is no clear()-like method for a js array ? :D06:12
itsnotabigtruckcan't you just assign it to an empty one?06:13
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: yeah, that is known, and wont fix in the first release06:13
djszapiI can, but still.06:13
djszapiwould be way readable with a clear.06:13
djszapioh .length = 0 should work06:15
itsnotabigtruckcould make it look like a 7-segment led display instead06:15
djszapihow hackish :)06:15
itsnotabigtruckthough that would require 7-segment sprites06:15
djszapithat was my though, but06:15
djszapithe point is that you have this in C++, but not in qml:
itsnotabigtruckthat doesn't really look all that cool anyway06:17
itsnotabigtruckbetter use custom sprites06:17
djszapiit is not that bad either06:19
djszapiand I do not have time for custom sprites really :)06:19
djszapiI am all happy with this timer.06:19
djszapiwhat I could do is to make the rectangle rounded.06:20
djszapito make more mobile'ish style.06:20
djszapione liner fix :)06:23
djszapitested here, works.06:23
itsnotabigtruckargh, my N9's almost out of juice06:24
itsnotabigtruckand i'm using an ac-10 charger that causes the screen to go inoperative06:24
itsnotabigtruckbtw any idea what could be causing that? i hope it's not killing the phone through some sort of grounding problem or some such06:25
ieatlinti used to have that issue on both the n9 and n95006:26
ieatlintthen it mysteriously disappeared06:26
djszapigot a (probably automated) answer after one day from Nokia publisher customer service:
itsnotabigtrucklol surveys06:30
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it is now working then ?06:30
itsnotabigtruckso did you manage to pay your 1 euro ovi toll06:30
itsnotabigtruckhaven't tested yet06:30
itsnotabigtrucki'll wait until the phone has some more juice06:30
ieatlintcareful, surveys are just clever ways to spy on you by getting you to tell them information06:30
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: no they rejected my payment06:31
djszapiwithout mentioning the concrete reason06:31
djszapithe bank said everything is okay06:31
itsnotabigtruckand you're sure you got the billing address entered exactly as it is on your cc bill?06:31
itsnotabigtruckthe publisher help mentioned that's a common cause of rejections06:31
djszapiwhat do you mean ?06:31
itsnotabigtruckonline credit card transactions check the billing address (AVS - address verification system)06:32
djszapithey did not ask billing address06:32
ieatlintif his bank says it wasn't declined, then unlikely the issue06:32
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: i think with AVS, the status gets sent back to the merchant which can decide whether to go through with it06:32
itsnotabigtrucknot sure06:32
itsnotabigtruckit wouldn't show up as a decline though06:33
ieatlintbut yeah, it should've asked for your address unless the european system is significantly different for online charges06:33
itsnotabigtruckexpand the last section06:34
itsnotabigtruckscroll down to: My credit card is valid but I’m unable to successfully pay for registration. What should I do?06:34
itsnotabigtruckif you e.g. put your work address down that might have done it06:34
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: already checked that yesterday06:35
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it is the same.06:36
djszapiif you mean the address I gave on a previous page, not on the payment slide.06:36
itsnotabigtruckyeah, that one06:37
itsnotabigtruckit looks like they use that for the billing address06:38
djszapiheh they told me to fill in a document, but the document is completely empty06:38
itsnotabigtruckwhat format is it? if it's word maybe ooo is being lame06:38
djszapiit is not libreoffice06:38
djszapiit is even empty with google docs06:38
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* djszapi is wondering why the rectangles are not rounded with radius: 4;06:39
djszapior with radius: 10;06:40
itsnotabigtruckwhat was the filetea link? it's gone now06:42
djszapifiletea is a crap06:42
itsnotabigtruckbtw that site's an interesting concept...though if you encrypt then upload, it doesn't matter if the file stays on their server for all eternity06:42
djszapisadly, I do not know better free service.06:42
itsnotabigtruckthere's zillions of them06:42
itsnotabigtruckmediafire, filefront06:42
itsnotabigtruckmin.us06:43 -> needs registration06:43
itsnotabigtruckah there we go06:43
itsnotabigtruckand unless they changed recently, registration is optional06:43
djszapiapparently too06:43
itsnotabigtruckfilefront has a short retention time but allows huge files06:43 has a 30 day retention time if you don't register, but you don't have to06:43
djszapiI would not like to register06:43
itsnotabigtruckalso, the document isn't empty06:44
itsnotabigtruckit is, however, white on dark blue06:44
itsnotabigtruckif your editor isn't aware of background colors, that would do it06:44
djszapiwell, I clicked on "View" in gmail.06:44
djszapibackground color is blue, but that does not matter06:45
djszapiI mean selected background06:45
djszapisince it is not visibile what they write anyway lol06:45
djszapiwhat a crappy doc seriously :D06:45
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: just open it up in ooo or whatever the new shiny is these days06:45
djszapias I said, tried06:46
djszapidid not work06:46
djszapinor with gmail "View", nor with libreoffice (note there is no "ooo"), nor with koffice06:46
itsnotabigtruckas for min.us06:46
itsnotabigtruckyou go to the page and dragndrop your file on top of it06:46
itsnotabigtruckno registration required06:47
djszapinot even after 30 days ?06:47
itsnotabigtruckwell, it'll be done after 30 days, yeah06:48
djszapithere you go06:48
djszapiI would not like to register ever.06:48
itsnotabigtruckthat sort of thing is normal on file hosting sites, either after a fixed period of time or if your file doesn't get enough downloads06:48
* djszapi boots to Windodws to check out this crapdoc06:48
itsnotabigtruckon mediafire, your file will stay up for a long time06:48
itsnotabigtruckanyway, that link is a pdf of the nokia doc06:49
itsnotabigtruckbut you can't edit it directly from there06:49
djszapiI would not need to edit directly.06:49
djszapithe point is that there is /no/ text06:49
itsnotabigtruckwell, you have to fill in the fields...06:49
itsnotabigtruckand no, the problem is that you're using programs that don't support background colors06:50
itsnotabigtruckthe text is invisible because it's white on white06:51
itsnotabigtruck"I mean selected background" i meant the actual page background06:51
itsnotabigtruckthe whole thing is blue06:52
itsnotabigtruckbecause nokia's new marketing theme is all blue all the time, i guess06:52
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itsnotabigtruckbtw < awesome song06:53
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djszapi|winit works on Windows, and editable.06:53
itsnotabigtruckbecause word supports pretty things like blue background colors :p06:54
djszapi|winit was also supported on linux with any viewer06:56
djszapi|winthat is not the root cause of the issue06:56
djszapi|winfor some reason the text is invisible.06:56
djszapi|winalso, it is a crap they have white text on white background06:56
djszapi|winit is just pretty insane06:56
itsnotabigtruckyeah, putting an entire document on bright blue isn't so smart06:57
itsnotabigtruckwell, dark blue06:58
itsnotabigtruckthey should have made a 1" blue banner at the top or some such instead06:58
djszapi|winnot sure what blue you are talking about06:58
djszapi|winit is blue nowhere to me06:58
djszapi|winthe background is everywhere white06:58
itsnotabigtruckwhat program are you using to view it?06:59
itsnotabigtruckit looks fine on word 201006:59
itsnotabigtruckif you're using wordpad, no wonder it's broken07:00
djszapi|winlibreoffice, googledocs, koffice, and tried the newest wordpad as well07:00
djszapi|winsince docx is that format basically anyway07:01
itsnotabigtruckwell, wordpad and google docs can't handle anything very complicated07:01
djszapi|winthe text of theirs is only visible if I select the whole page.07:01
itsnotabigtruckand ooo/lo and koffice are pretty limited compared to ms word too07:02
djszapi|winnot my fault07:02
itsnotabigtruckof course, ms has a huge head start and a huge amount of people/$$$ working on it07:02
djszapi|winthey cannot handle their own format07:02
itsnotabigtruckwell, wordpad is kind of a toy program, not a serious editor07:02
djszapi|winshould be perfectly fine for this purpose.07:02
itsnotabigtruckwell, nokia probably should have put substance over style, but it's also not unreasonable for them to have assumed it would just work07:03
djszapi|winit is insane07:03
djszapi|winto have white color on white background07:03
djszapi|winand only the selected bg is blue07:04
itsnotabigtruckexcept it's not supposed to be that way!07:04
itsnotabigtruck"selected bg" is irrelevant, that's set by your computer07:04
djszapi|winwhatever, it is like that everywhere apart from your superchucknorris stuff :)07:04
djszapi|winno it is not irrelevant07:04
djszapi|winthat is the only relevance07:04
itsnotabigtruckyou can see what it's supposed to look like from the pdf i uploaded07:04
djszapi|winhow I could get it actually visible.07:04
djszapi|winluckily enough the selected background was not screwed up07:05
djszapi|winso I could at least annoyingly read the damn text.07:05
itsnotabigtruckyou could just select all and set the color to black :p07:05
djszapi|winnot really07:06
djszapi|winit might break at their end if I modify something07:06
djszapi|winbest to keep the compatibility07:06
* djszapi|win had enough time for M$07:06
itsnotabigtrucki highly doubt it's automated in any way07:06
itsnotabigtruckall it has to do is have the text visible07:06
itsnotabigtruckif anything leaving it as white on white might confuse someone on nokia's end07:06
djszapi|winand that is clearly not visible07:07
djszapi|winon any platform and in any application I tried.07:07
djszapi|winthis is plain silly07:07
itsnotabigtruckright, so change the color and make it so07:07
djszapi|winnever really had such a situation before.l07:07
djszapi|winit is not about the color change07:07
djszapi|winor other workaround07:07
djszapi|winit is the fact I spent X minutes instead of zero with seeing the text07:07
djszapi|winbut hey, I can fill in the customer service now :)07:08
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: also, they did not even have a reference to bank account information in that document.07:13
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: they probably waive it for the manual procedure then07:13
djszapior they will ask that in the second stage.07:13
djszapiwhich is .. not nice to have 1 day for each answer.07:14
djszapino, the page is definitely not blue07:14
djszapiit is just the outter rect.07:14
itsnotabigtruckdid you look at my pdf?07:14
itsnotabigtruckit's blue07:14
djszapialso, googledocs, libreoffice, koffice and wordpad do support background colors.07:14
djszapijust tried out in my document.07:14
djszapiand actually all my presentation slides were always backgrounded anyway07:14
djszapiand always worked07:14
itsnotabigtruckslides != documents07:15
djszapiof it is07:15
itsnotabigtruckalso i'm not seeing any way to change the background color in wordpad07:15
djszapisome of them because I normally edit it in a document07:15
djszapiespecially the abstracts07:15
djszapianyway, tried out and my document works fine.07:15
djszapiout of the box.07:16
itsnotabigtruckand if you load the docx on wordpad, it even warns you that it has things wordpad doesn't understand07:16
djszapiin every application I tried so far, koffice, libreoffice and googledocs07:16
djszapiyeah, it is hard to understand a background :D :D07:16
djszapiin 2012, lol07:16
itsnotabigtruckactually it's probably because wordpad is basically a demo app for a simple "rich text" widget that doesn't have fancy things like that07:17
djszapiyou miss the point07:17
djszapiit is not about flaming against wordpad07:18
djszapiit has not even worked in any other sane document viewer.07:18
itsnotabigtruckbecause those other document viewers haven't caught up to word07:20
itsnotabigtruckand word document background colors are not a very commonly used feature07:20
itsnotabigtruckmaybe precisely because of situations like this07:20
itsnotabigtruckso probably what's happening is that nobody's bothering to implement it07:20
djszapilet us reinvent a new format/feature where even the background color is broken in every other apps lol07:20
itsnotabigtrucksince word docs often end up being printed out, you don't want to cover the entire page in lots of expensive color toner07:21
djszapithis is silly saying...07:21
djszapiall the manager thingie sends out docx documents to the zillion linux developers.07:21
itsnotabigtruckthings like this are exactly why sending DOCs (or ODFs or anything else) around is a bad idea07:21
itsnotabigtruckthat's what pdf is for07:21
itsnotabigtruckbut for forms like this one, making pdf forms is hard07:21
itsnotabigtruckreally they could have just put a list of lines in the email...07:22
djszapithis is plain silly of word; and I am promising I am not gonna touch that crap.07:22
itsnotabigtruckyou're being awfully stubborn over a background color, lol07:22
djszapinah... I am being awfully stubborn over wasted time07:23
djszapidoes not really matter what it is07:23
djszapiso did the kanagram work after all ?07:24
itsnotabigtruckoh yeah, let me try it07:28
itsnotabigtruckyou probably need to reupload it07:28
itsnotabigtrucki think i was having trouble downloading before and that site you use is super-temporary07:28
djszapigive me an alternative page which is for free without any registration anytime.07:30
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ieatlinti love coming home to a hdd making unusual noises :(07:48
ieatlintc'est la vie... well into a ddrescue operation to image the drive, and it's not too expensive for a new one07:49
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: yup, it works07:55
djszapi06:12 < itsnotabigtruck> the box around the last digit of the countdown timer is cut off by the rounded corner extending from the system bar -> fixed too07:55
djszapianything else ? :)07:56
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djszapiI also made the rectangles curved asan addition to the mobile style.07:56
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: ready for testing the next game ? :)07:58
* itsnotabigtruck is le tired07:59
itsnotabigtruckthere's a high probability i won't make my 8am class, heh08:00
djszapihow many of them I have not made back then ... :)08:00
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infobotsomebody said aegis-no-thanks was
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Venemo_N950radiofree, ping09:01
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djszapiVenemo_N950: you did not test the app :)09:08
ieatlintyay, i lost only 4kb in my hdd failure09:12
ieatlintand i already had a backup of the affected file09:12
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Sazpaimondoes the N9 wall charger adapter emulate enumeration?09:15
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Venemo_N950djszapi, sorry I was swamped in work yesterday :(09:21
Venemo_N950djszapi, I'll test it today09:21
djszapino excuse !09:21
Venemo_N950djszapi, I had a couple of minutes only before I fell to bed. under that time, I compiled and put irc-chatter master on my N950 with the hopes of reproducing your favourite bug09:23
djszapiI do not favour any bugs :P09:23
djszapiI would fix it myself if the code was readable enough to my taste ... :P09:24
Venemo_N950nah, you keep an intimate relationship with this bug09:24
djszapiso best you can do is refactoring imho09:24
Venemo_N950I couldn't reproduce it still... the bug doesn't like me09:24
djszapiif you cannot really reproduce it.09:24
Venemo_N950anyway I'll run the app the whole day today09:24
Venemo_N950and will wait for it to appear09:25
djszapiit happens to me after a couple of seconds09:25
djszapiwith my N950 and N9 too09:25
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Venemo_N950djszapi, even with the hw keyboard open?09:34
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: no way09:47
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djszapiVenemo_N950: well, I cannot type any other way :)09:56
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Venemo_N950djszapi, you can type on the sw keyboard as well09:59
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djszapiwhere is that on n9 ?10:00
djszapialso, it is not related to the keyboard fyi10:00
djszapiI get this bug without any keyboard interaction10:00
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griwhat was the bug? Maybe I can reproduce it :)10:18
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Venemo_N950gri, random text appears in the text box, for him10:20
Venemo_N950djszapi, does this happen when you're switching channels?10:25
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l32606hi, im looking for the source of the plugins status indicator menu.but i can't found them in  systemui package. anyone has ideas? thank you!10:30
ArkanoiD_anyone successfully installed extraplugins on n950?10:33
decibyteis it possible to use the sms app on your computer via ssh and x forwarding?10:33
RST38hI did10:37
RST38hThey work, but require installing two more packages in advance10:37
ArkanoiD_RST38h, which ones?10:42
RST38hArkanoid: ICQ at least10:42
RST38hoh, the packages? a moment10:42
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RST38hArkanoi: looks like for the Ovi store package you have to remove old stuff first:
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: heh, they sent me an odt to fill in10:59
djszapieven if I filled in the docx, already...10:59
djszapishe either missed my attachment for some reason, or the modification in wordpad was not compatible with the docx format. no clue.11:05
fluxdoes anyone else have trouble updating profilematic? it keeps telling me 'download failed', yet other ovi store apps seem to download fine.11:05
fluxtcpdump indicated it attempts to make no network connections when I try to retry the download11:10
fluxit creates a 0-byte file /var/cache/apt/archives/partial/profilematic_1.3.0_armel.profilematic; removing the file doesn't affect the results11:13
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JaffaAnyone know if anyone's working on a simple toggle 2G/3G app (like Toggle BT)?11:23
alteregoWould bo good,11:29
infobotbe is probably Beryllium.  Belgium11:29
* alterego punches infobot in the face.11:29
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* alterego tries to remember the last time he went on to tmo11:38
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* Jaffa got suckered into something recently. But after making one post avoided any replies.11:44
* Jaffa needs some TMO readers to be MWKN contributors, though.11:44
Jaffaalterego: Should be a gconf key, I guess.11:45
jreznikwould be better to find way how to add something to the status menu... not a toggle icon, but looking to mtf sources, they add plugins manually there... why???11:46
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qronicguys with PR1.2 beta, can somebody upload 200kb file from it for me?12:10
djszapiwhich file ?12:10
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qronicdjszapi, thank you!12:14
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Jaffajreznik: AFAIK, it's not possible to add to the status bar or menu - it's closed source with no API12:24
jreznikJaffa: it's not closed source, there's even API - it's plugable, but the current plugins are just put into the list and that's all, no desktop files or other way how to do it12:24
Jaffajreznik: Oh, cool. URL?12:25
Jaffajreznik: A combined flippable toggle (maybe BT, 2G/3G, PSM) would be a hit, I think12:26
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alteregoJaffa: yeah, or dbus12:28
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jreznikJaffa: can't find it right now, gitorious is not ok today...12:34
jreznikbut it surprised me that harmattan is not as closed as I expected (at least regarding source code)12:34
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jreznikJaffa: and then check and setInProcessFilter and setOutProcessFilter...14:11
jreznikeven if there would be possibility to create another extension area instead one of existing, it's still on aegis list...14:11
* jreznik hopes he just did not understand it correctly and there's a way...14:12
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: do you have linux and also windows by hand, or how could you check out the document on Windows in no time ? :)14:34
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faenilfor those of you who haven't heard the news, there's a guy trying to dualboot harm and ICS16:02
faenilno opengl acc atm, but still, booting :)16:04
djszapifaenil: yeah, others already pasted, though not here :)16:05
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djszapinpm ping16:53
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djszapior anybody else with json experience :)16:53
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qronicdjszapi, mind to give a link on ICS @n9?16:55
djszapinot really, just this one:
djszapiwork is still in progress :)16:57
qronicalso found it at TMO:
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leinirew... who in the world would want that?!16:58
qronicme :) I need a full blown navi software sometimes16:59
djszapime too :)17:00
djszapiit is a hacker device after all. I would need to carry two phones for experimenting with android.17:00
leiniri take it you'd argue that Drive isn't good enough for your purposes, then?17:00
djszapiwould not*17:00
qronicleinir, don't judge nased on your country, in my country Drive sucks17:01
infobotqronic meant: leinir, don't judge based on your country, in my country Drive sucks17:01
Jeffrey04lol, didn't know infobot does that17:01
KRFdoesn't it suck for everyone? it doesn't even display ETA17:01
Jeffrey04drive is ok'ish to me17:01
radiofreeit shows the remaining distance17:02
leinirKRF: it does in 1.2 ;)17:02
KRFleinir: srsly? someone told me drive ain't getting any love in 1.2.17:02
KRFthat's good to hear, after all17:02
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: qronic check developer tweeter jst =)17:03
Jeffrey04from what i know drive is improved significantly in pr1.217:03
Jeffrey04KRF: check the pr1.2 thread in TMP17:03
KRFJeffrey04: that'd be awesome17:03
djszapiZogG_laptop: what do you mean ?17:03
djszapiofc the android port is not just about drive :D17:03
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: nitdroid17:03
djszapiZogG_laptop: not following what you mean.17:03
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: android on n917:04
Jeffrey04android market~~~17:04
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rafael2k_hi there people, anyone managed to compile the PR1.2 kernel for open mode aegis usage?17:05
ZogG_laptopits e-eyes or what is his nick here, drunkdebugger - on tweeter i think17:05, he's Russian17:05
ZogG_laptop~seen e-eyes17:06
infoboti haven't seen 'e-eyes', ZogG_laptop17:06
ZogG_laptopqronic: i know, me too =)17:06
qronicDocScrutinizer, hi, are you there?17:08
djszapiqronic: let me know your experience when you try it out.17:08
* artemma is happy for his last two apps were published yesterday (paid and free one) and paid version(!) already has two "very useful" reviews!17:11
artemmano friends involved - the reviewers are total strangers to me17:11
qronicdjszapi, sure, since DocScrutinizer is away, maybe you know, how does harmattan knows it's running in open mode (accli -I) when booted with self-compiled kernel?17:11
qronicdoes the official nokia kernel pass some signature to bootloader?17:12
djszapiqronic: check the dpkg wrapper17:12
djszapithe dpkg wrapper checks the same I think17:12
djszapiit is some libbb5 thingy17:12
djszapiwhere it can be known.17:12
djszapilet me ask my friend maintaining the kernel17:13
qroniccause DocScrutinizer just patched several aegis functions and his kernel shows "open mode"... makes me wonder17:13
djszapiI am not sure for instance how libbb5 communicates with the kernel17:14
djszapiso I cannot investigate more efficiently, sorry.17:14
djszapiI asked the kernel maintainer, let us see what he answers :)17:15
qronicnp, thanks for asking him17:15
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djszapiqronic: the bootloader verifies a signed hash of the kernel before loading it, I thought.17:23
artemmacan somebody fetch a page from documentation for me?17:24
* artemma wants to give qtMock a try 17:24
qronicdjszapi, so I guess the OTA update first puts new PR's kernel hash into bootloader with libbb5 token17:24
artemmaI can promise not to share it with anybody :D17:24
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qronicartemma, congratulations with approval, btw17:25
djszapiartemma: definitely, congrats :)17:25
artemmaqronic: you mean my swype language chooser app?17:25
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fralswth is
artemmaheh, I should have released it a month ago, before 1.2 had same feature in the plans :)17:25
qronicwith those 2 apps you said earlier, missed that17:25
artemmaqronic: you can start using it now, not waiting for 1.217:26
artemmato all the developers in this chat I can certainly send a paid version for free17:26
artemmajust tell an email address17:26
qronicGotta try, though I find myself using terminal over ssh on n9 more often then sms :)17:27
artemmafrals: I don't really know what is, that's where gitorious commit says the docs for qtmock are :)17:27
djszapiqronic: I presume so, but I have not written this part of the security job. The bootloader team would prolly also know this.17:28
qronicbut that might be under NDA :)17:29
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ZogG_laptopgri: sup17:34
griZogG_laptop: Nothing. I am just a bit impressed by the 80 € sound system I bought because my laptop speakers pissed me on :D17:35
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djszapigri: Nothing ? haven't you just criticized my app ? :P :P17:43
griThat was not criticism but suggestions :) Also few hours ago17:44
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jreznikKRF: check my video of Drive
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KRFjreznik: does it bring jam notification?17:52
jreznikKRF: don't expect so17:58
KRFi still had the hope is coming to the N9 :/17:59
KRFwith public transport and all that nifty stuff17:59
Jeffrey04doubt if traffic info is avail in my country tho18:01
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ZogG_laptopgri: my laptop speakers weaker than phone ones i thin =\18:08
ZogG_laptopand it's z1 vaio =\18:08
ZogG_laptopgri: i figured out why xauth is not working =0)18:08
griZogG_laptop: then tell me the cause, please18:09
ZogG_laptopgri: frals helped me, so i do not take credit =)18:09
ZogG_laptopgri: there is sessiondata type wich contains all the stuff18:10
ZogG_laptopthe thing is is you use other than standard method (if you use plugin) than plugin uses it's own sessiondata with is the modified with needed getters and setters18:11
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ZogG_laptopthe problem is that xauth's one is not avilable s it's closed source i need or to write my own with same setters getters it's uses, or to have source for it =)18:12
ZogG_laptopas we don't have both (documentation and soure) we can't use it - it's just there part of the pr and os but can't be used by 3rd party apps untill we get or source or docs at least =)18:13
griyou could bugreport this for the next sdk update18:14
griif not already done18:14
ZogG_laptopgri: did it with oauth report and it's says assigned but no result18:14
ZogG_laptopreported both at the same time, though i was told oauth would be included without my report anyway, as it would be used in pr1.2 (but i want to believe i reminded them to use it so they included it =P )18:15
ZogG_laptopgri:  wanna vote ?18:15
griI can vote but I don't think this has any effect18:16
ZogG_laptopme too =(18:17
SindriavaSo... I am planning on buying the Nokia N9. Could anyone tell me roughly how many apps are there on the Ovi Store?18:17
ZogG_laptopbug 49318:17
_MeeGoBot_Bug nor, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, ASSI, better libxauth documentetion and usage examples18:17
SindriavaOr if i can install some classic Linux apps?18:17
griSindriava: This depends on what you're interested in. There are much crap apps like on every phone :)18:17
ZogG_laptopSindriava: you can check ovi store yourself no need in n918:17
Sindriavaoh, right! silly me >_<18:18
ZogG_laptopSindriava: as well n9-apps.com18:18
Sindriavasorry :)18:18
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griYou can even test the whole system (with a bad framerate) with Nokia Remote Device Access18:18
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SazpaimonKRF, i can get public transit directions on maps already18:22
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ZogG_laptopfrals: btw why wouldn't you upload lpmcustomizer to ?18:25
fralsnever said i wont18:25
KRFSazpaimon: can you get route information (e.g. via public transport) by specifying from/to location?18:25
fralsits just a hueg fuckin hazzle and i dont have the time to sort it :<18:25
fralsits in ovi store and sources are on github anyway18:26
ZogG_laptopi was angry when i saw your copycat promoted in all coners =\18:26
KRFSazpaimon: - that app has that feature18:27
KRF(had that on my N97, it's pretty cool)18:27
KRFi have some "rudimentary" public transport support on maps (pr 1.1)18:28
SazpaimonKRF, yes you can18:28
Sazpaimonjust go to maps18:28
Sazpaimonselect directions18:28
Sazpaimonselevt to and from spots18:29
Sazpaimonand select transit18:29
ZogG_laptopit's a pitty i can't use any nokia native apps releated to map as for Nokia we are white spot on map18:29
SazpaimonI just tried it on mine, it works, but the directions are atrocious18:29
Sazpaimonit only gives directions by train18:29
Sazpaimonand wants me to walk 2 miles to the train station, and has no knowledge of buses18:29
KRFSazpaimon: right. and no time information afair18:30
Sazpaimonmaybe the betalaps app is better18:30
Sazpaimonmaybe it uses actual GTFS data18:30
KRFin the above screenshot you several possibilites for your route, that's just awesome ;)18:30
KRF"you have" even18:30
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Sazpaimonthats nice18:31
Sazpaimonif that ever gets to N9 I'll never use google maps again18:31
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SindriavaAh, damn by laptop's battery18:31
Sazpaimonand if its made for belle its a simple port for harmaatan18:31
KRFcan someone from the N9 team comment on this? on the forums someone said the "public transport" app *might* come to N9.18:32
faenilguys can't I show a QueryDialog without using open()?18:32
SazpaimonA lot of people at nokia use N9s internally18:32
SazpaimonA lot of people at nokia use N9s internally18:32
SazpaimonA lot of people at nokia use N9s internally18:33
Sazpaimonso if something is deemed a killer app, it probably will find its way to the N9 eventually18:33
Sazpaimonfscking up key18:33
KRFSazpaimon: yeh, just repeat then it'll happen ;)18:33
SindriavaExcuse me, i don't want to start a flamewar, but i was hoping someone in here  could help me with some advice on choosing between Android and Nokia N918:34
SindriavaI *really* don't want to flame about it, but the thing is that i am a programmer18:34
SindriavaAnd i was wondering which one of the OS'es is better for me18:34
Sindriavafrom the "hacking and customizing" side i love so much :)18:35
deramthree times works with the Great Old Ones...18:35
SazpaimonSindriava, are you wanting an unbiased opinion18:36
SindriavaWell, no. I had an Android phone for like 3 months18:36
Sindriavaso i wanted to know more about the meego side of the problem :)18:36
SindriavaI need a new phone rather quickly, so i don't have the time to search through lots of documentation or such18:37
Sazpaimonif you're interested in a true linux mobile device, the N9 is a good choice18:37
SindriavaYay, i hoped for that18:37
Sazpaimonthe  N900 is good for on-device hacking since it has a physical keyboard18:37
SindriavaNah, i prefer vim over SSH18:37
Sazpaimonbut its not as powerful, and runs the outdated maemo 5 OS, with GCC 4.2 and an older linux kernel18:37
Sindriavaa hate keyboards on phones (bad experience >_<)18:38
SindriavaCan you actually install some linux packages on it?18:38
SindriavaLike... Gnome Shell? (for example)18:38
Sazpaimonits debian-based18:38
KRFSindriava: yep. apt-get is your friend18:38
Sazpaimonso you can install any debian package18:38
SindriavaIf you remove Aegis (right?)18:38
Sazpaimonnot even that18:38
Sazpaimonif you enable developer mode, debian apps will run18:38
Sindriava:O So-awesome18:38
Sazpaimonaegis only needs to be disabled when you want to access restricted APIs18:39
Sazpaimonor want true root access18:39
SindriavaSo it's basically a Linux powered PC in a phone18:39
Sazpaimonover aegis, the root user is essentially just another user, and he cant execute arbitrary programs18:39
SindriavaI see... I was reading something about aegis blocking even dmesg18:40
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Sindriavabut i checked today at vodafone store, and i was able to use it18:40
Sazpaimonit all depends on the restricted APIs18:40
npmfrals I see on twitter you're talking about PR1.2 fixes/issues -- here's mine: on the feed/notifications screen when you scroll, the text gets all pixelated and is hard to read. (i'm not sure smoothing needs to be set "off" while scrolling). compared to lumia doing the exact same thing, it looks ugly.18:40
Sazpaimon[11:39] <Sindriava> So it's basically a Linux powered PC in a phone18:40
Sazpaimonactually the other way around18:40
Sazpaimonits a phone in a linux powered PC18:40
Sazpaimonthe N9 came about from a long line of nokia internet tablets18:40
SindriavaSo it's a "laptop" with linux installed on it18:41
Sindriava+ GSM chip?18:41
Sazpaimonits actually only the second device out of the last 5 or so to have phone capabilities18:41
SindriavaI see... Well, since i need something as close as possible to my linux laptop18:42
Sindriavait seems the N9 is actually the best choice availiable18:42
SazpaimonI would say so18:42
Sazpaimonand its also a really good device for mobility18:43
Sindriavai will gladly throw away all the Android swag just for the pure awesomeness of being able to run apps like Vim on my phone18:43
Sindriava(and over SSH from my PC)18:43
npmi wish nokia made a tablet version of the n9 :-)18:43
Sazpaimonand if you ever feel a relapse with android, be content that android is being ported to it18:43
SindriavaI hope so! It's the second most perfect phone for the new ICS18:43
Sazpaimonthe previous two incarnations of internet tablet phones from nokia have android ports18:44
Sazpaimonthe N900 even has ICS18:44
SindriavaThe best one, considering the Galaxy Nexus overheats...18:44
Sazpaimonas a dual boot too18:44
SazpaimonN900 can boot android, ubuntu, meego, and maemo18:44
SindriavaHot <318:44
faenilbut hw is too old now18:44
Sazpaimonprobably now off of the same microsdxc card18:45
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SindriavaN9 doesn't have the microSD slot, though18:45
Sindriavabut 64GB is more than enough :D18:45
Sazpaimonbut it has 64GB builtin18:45
SindriavaSo, to get it right:18:45
Sazpaimonmost N9 users were fine with the onboard 32GB of storage18:45
Sindriavathe 32GB version is not sold in my country O_o18:46
deramthe 16GB has more than enough if you don't plan to store movies or whole world of music in it18:46
Sazpaimonsorry N90018:46
Sazpaimonand up until a little while ago, they could only get 64GB with an included microsd card18:46
SindriavaSince Gnome-Shell is able to run on ARM powered tablets, it should be able to run on the n9 too?18:46
SazpaimonQt is really the way to go on N918:46
Sazpaimonit includes all the Qt libraries18:47
Sazpaimonthe gtk has been ported though18:47
SindriavaSo KDE should run smoothly, then18:47
npmanybody know why apt-get install bluez-test gives:   bluez-test: Depends: bluez (= 4.91-0maemo7+0m6) but 4.91-0maemo24+0m7 is to be installed18:47
Sazpaimonand you can run debian on a chroot if you disable aegis18:47
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* npm wants to try for PR 1.218:47
SindriavaThanks for all the help, Sazpaimon :)18:48
SindriavaI hope the n9 is going to satisfy all my linux needs that Android couldn't >:)18:48
radiofreenpm: looks like bluez-test hasn't been upgrade for the 1.2 package18:48
radiofreejust --ignore-depends=bluez18:49
SazpaimonI wouldnt say it will satisfy ALL your needs18:49
SindriavaWell, it's not a full fledged linux distro18:49
Sazpaimonbut its the closest thing to a linux device on the general end user market today18:49
Sindriavayeah, it's as good as it gets18:49
SindriavaAnd i am sure it will satisfy most of my needs just well18:49
SindriavaI basically just want a portable SSH server with some of my favorite programming tools installed, so i can work on school PC's through SSH18:51
Sindriava+ Media player / internet browser18:51
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Sazpaimonif you're gonna run the gcc on the N9 itself be prepared to wait a while18:51
Sazpaimonit does take a while to compile anything on a 1Ghz ARM processor18:52
Sazpaimontook me two days to compile llvm on my N90018:53
Sazpaimonbut llvm is a huge project anyway18:53
rafael2k_I compiled a somewhat big C++ code easily18:53
SindriavaI hope most of the apps i want will have a package in apt18:53
rafael2k_in about 10 minutes you can compile a mid-size C++ software18:54
Sindriavayou can do some of the compiling on your PC, right?18:54
SazpaimonSindriava, thats the way youre reccomended to do it18:54
rafael2k_native compiling is much more fun18:54
Sindriavarafael2k_: Yeah! :D18:54
Sazpaimonyou can either install the Qt SDK, or set up a chroot18:54
rafael2k_; )18:54
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Sazpaimoni prefer the chroot method, coming from a maemo 5 user18:55
KRFnpm: isn't here a bluetooth keyboard app on the store?18:55
SindriavaI used my quad core i7 to compile something for my iphone a long time ago...18:55
rafael2k_I seted up a native chroot, but you'll need an open mode kernel18:55
Sindriavait took a while too...18:55
rafael2k_Some time ago I compiled X on an HP Jornada 71018:56
rafael2k_; )18:56
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KRF"Hey, that sounds very cool.18:56
KRFIs it possible to connect (two) BT gamepads and use them in combination with stuff like EmuMaster? "18:56
KRFawesome :)18:56
fralsnpm: im not seeing it, how do you reproduce this exactly?19:03
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faenilisn't there any way to reuse qtcomponent's dialog graphics19:07
faenilbut with custom layout?19:07
faenilI don't want it to be centered, and I don't want it to eat mouse events in the background19:07
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SindriavaYay, i just ordered my 64GB black Nokia N919:13
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npmfrals: oh hi i was away got bluetooth keyboard working on n950 w/
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npmfrals: regarding PR1.2 issue... just swipe to the feeds/notifications screen and scroll through it like you would if looking for something19:23
npmwhen it gets to the speed of being readable while scrolling, the letters seem to have antialiasing turned off and look pixelated19:23
npmat least on n950 screen. but this seems to be a regression over what was on it before (beta0 :-) )19:24
npmor rather beta119:24
SindriavaWhere did you get the n950? :)19:24
npmfrom Nokia?19:25
npmI just got another nice mail from Joan saying a N9 PR1.2 is on the way so i'll see if the problem is visible on amoled display vs lcd19:25
npmof course the amoled is prepixelated so you might not notice in the first place :-)19:26
Sazpaimondoes the N9 wall charger adapter emulate enumeration?19:27
npmfrals: but if you compare scrolling text on the "people" app on Lumia it is more readable while scrolling.19:27
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SindriavaThe AMOLED display bugs me... It has this sorta pink line on the left edge of most white parts :(19:29
npmand other apps on N9 (e.g. fennec, web browser) look good while scrolling text at the same speed as on notifications/screen19:29
npmso either qt text smoothing needs to be turned off it is on, or maybe on if it is off.19:30
npmit looks quite bothersome, like the letters fill in with grayed shadows of themselves, esp when scrolling very slowly19:31
npmmaybe it's just how white text looks on black background, versus browser which uses white background?19:31
radiofreenpm: I don't see this issue19:31
npmare you on n950 or n919:32
npmand using PR1.2 or earlier?19:32
fralsim not seeing it on n919:32
radiofreen9 pr 1.219:32
npmwell I just got a nice letter from Joan B@nokia so hopefully n9 pr 1.2 will be on its way and i'll be able to see for myself :-)19:33
npmor rather it is on it's way19:33
itsnotabigtruckSindriava: nokia had various programs that gave out N950s on indefinite loan19:33
itsnotabigtruckand also there's a bunch of nokia employees and subcontractors here that have them19:34
npmitsnotabigtruck: where's "here" ?19:34
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itsnotabigtrucknpm: like in the channel19:35
itsnotabigtruckmaybe "bunch of" is the wrong term to use19:35
itsnotabigtruckbut it's hard not to notice all the soandso@nat/nokia/blahblah hostmasks :)19:35
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itsnotabigtruckhey admiral019:36
admiral0hey :D19:36
npmitsnotabigtruck: yeah, they're the ones that can't talk about anything :-)19:37
admiral0so many things to do19:38
admiral0so little time19:38
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faenilI'm looking for a legal way to exchange my n950 with an n9...19:43
mgedmin"buy an n9, heep the n950" doesn't cut it, eh?19:43
npmthe more i use the lumia, the more i appreciate the n95019:43
npmi like the lcd display, esp for reading at home, or in bed.19:43
mgedminthe n9 is nicer still, even despite the silly pentile subpixel layout19:44
faenilnpm: the more I use the Lumia, the more I love how there's a lagless alternative to iOS, let's say it19:45
npmthe n9 will be primary phone when it arrives19:45
aikakanado you know where the lag in harmattan comes?19:46
aikakanais it the input or what19:46
aikakanawith input i mean the hw19:46
npmfaenil: i have an iphone 4s that i inherited... it is *way* better than lumia in every way19:46
faenilno it's the way popup are designed, for what concerns popups lag19:46
npmbrowser is way faster, and doesn't bork on most websites, html5 compatible etc19:47
aikakanaah you ment that, okay. i was thinking about menu scrolling etc19:47
faenilnpm: but it's not smoother, that's what I mean19:47
npmseems very smooth, the 4s19:47
faenilaikakana: menu scrolling too, in some applications, like you start contacts and it lags for the first few seconds, same in messages19:47
aikakanayeah true19:47
npmdual core, A519:47
faenilnpm: it is indeed, and Lumia is on par on that side19:47
faenilWP keeps an awesome locked 60fps, just like 4S19:48
npmnot really. the lumia pukes regularly just playing back a locally stored podcast ... as soon as some background task starts19:48
faenilthat depends on the app...19:48
aikakanafeanil actually i wasnt meaning that either, i really wonder why the actual scrolling lags and dont follow the input very well. i cant imagine how it can be so hard to map inputs straight to graphics coords. games on n9 do it better19:49
faenilit probably doesn't use multithreaded for that19:49
npmthe OS's embedded media playing app19:49
npmit actually depends on the media server19:49
faenilcould be19:49
npmwhich is their hoaky way of doing background processing19:49
faenilI have never experienced fps drops19:49
itsnotabigtrucknpm: how does the iphone browser compare to n9's19:49
npmand it doesn't work19:49
faenilnot even one19:49
itsnotabigtrucki haven't owned an iphone, though the n9 browser seems quite fine19:50
faenilLumia's browser is faster than n9's, much smoother19:50
faeniland I can say that 100% sure19:50
npmit's comparable, perhaps a little faster as could be expected given the extra processor19:50
npmlumias browser borks on a lot of websites19:50
faenilfaenil: and I'm not here to troll, I love the n9 as a dev device19:50
faenilnpm: what do you mean?19:51
npmit won't display them19:51
npmanything advanced anything html5 anything non microsofty19:51
npmforget it19:51
npmso forget all the convergence towards html5 because wp7 ain't havin it19:52
faenilnever had any problem with html5 in my daily use19:52
npmhuh? have you tried audio? video?19:52
npmnone of it works19:52
faenilyes video, and it had some buffering problems, but still usable19:52
npmno it simply won't display html5 audio or video19:52
npmnothing to do w/ buffering probs19:52
faenilnono it worked here19:53
npmthe <audio> tag doesn't even work19:53
faenilhaven't tried that19:53
npmwell that's not even html5 then19:53
npmthe whole point of html5 is the audio and video tag.19:54
faenilyeah I know what you mea19:54
npmit's because they want to force people into silverlight19:54
npmand divide the market that might be going towards FOSS originated tools/ideas19:55
npmin comparison, the n9 rarely has troubles browsing, and when it does, i use fennec anyways19:56
mgedminhaven't microsoft announced silverlight is obsolete and they will switch to html5?19:56
faenilas far as I'm concerned, I have never experienced an fps drop on Lumia, and that makes me 100% satisfied19:56
npmif the lumia had fennec, or qtwebkit, it wouldn't be half as bad19:56
npmmgedmin: given the role of silverlight in wp7.5 development and deployment, i'd say no19:57
SindriavaWhat is the browser on N9, anyways?19:57
npmwebkit2 ?19:57
faenilnpm: n9 browser is slower than lumia's, come on...19:58
faenilyou see 0 lag on lumia, on N9 you just have to open a bigger/heavier website..19:58
faenilif you find a website that lags on lumia, please tell me, because I haven't found any yet19:58
npm0 lag on some site designed to be viewed w/ it19:58
faenildesktop sites19:59
npmbut if i go to a random website, i have better luck on n95019:59
faenilI'm not talking about mobile websites19:59
npmbut also i use fennec for most of my browsing, because it syncs to firefox on desktop etc19:59
faenilomg, that's the worst then :D20:00
faenilfennec is laggy as hell on harm...20:00
npmi use the builtin for when i click on something20:00
faenilah :)20:00
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npmfennec10 ... worksforme once o get around the startup issues20:03
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griI like my computer hanging up itself sometimes ... who said it's unstable to enable experimental kernel options? :D20:05
SindriavaUh... this channel turned into lumia chat so slowly i didn't even notice ._.20:08
SindriavaDon't get me wrong, i have nothing against the Lumia itself20:09
djszapiN9if lumia is a cute woman, it is ok :)20:09
SindriavaIt's actually prettier than the N9 (i like the camera button!)20:09
npmlumia is a cute woman in drag20:10
faenilgtg, canteen time :D20:10
SindriavaI just don't like the WP7 :(20:10
SindriavaBtw, How is flash support on the N9?20:11
npmSindriava: all the buttons on the lumia are the biggest fail20:11
npmyou can't possibly hand it to a friend to show them a picture or let them talk on some app since they'll hit the back button by accident and lose the app and all the context20:11
npmyou can't snap it into a car holder while driving because of the same... and all the buttons make it even easier to lose state and accidentally have it taking photos instead of helping you get to where you're going20:12
itsnotabigtruckSindriava: it doesn't exist...20:12
itsnotabigtruckif the browser has a plugin facility it might be possible to hack it back in20:13
npmwhereas it's pretty difficult to accientally "swipe"20:13
itsnotabigtruckalso if you want an n950 because of the lcd screen, note that most of those lcd screens have dead pixels, i hear20:13
npmand with the n9,  there's no buttons on the bottom so it snaps into various holders easily20:13
itsnotabigtruckand amoled is the stuff, color fringing or not20:13
npmno i actually want an an n9 over the lumia as my daily use phone and i'm finally getting one :-)20:14
npmi quickly stopped using the n950 as daily use because i didn't want to join #crackedscreenclub20:15
npmplus i carry it around in a huge padded hardshell sunglasses case to protect it, which isn't very svelte20:16
SindriavaWell... i expect the browser uses the QWebView from Qt, right?20:16
npmso when nokia asks for it back, it'll be the best cared for n950 out there :-)20:17
npm"my precious"20:17
itsnotabigtruckoh btw, on the topic of the browser, does it support plugins?20:17
SindriavaThe Qt WebView widget does20:18
Sindriavaat least on PC20:18
itsnotabigtrucki suppose it's a moot point without a recent version of flash built for armel to hack in20:18
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Sindriavai hacked together a lightweight browser as a school project in Qt20:18
Sindriavayou just need to supply the file20:19
Sindriavaand it takes care of everything20:19
Sindriavaand enable plugins in the widget20:19
npmyep, you can even do it in qt
npm^^^ flash and browser abuse20:20
SindriavaWe just need the SO file for flash20:20
Sindriavai suppose we could yank it from some android phone20:21
npm 4516  4468 user     R <   199m 20.0 31.6 /usr/local/lib/fennec-10.0a1/plugin-container 4468 tab20:25
npmseems like it's running flash right now ?20:25
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xmlich02hi, i am not able to update profileMatic app via ovi store. any one have same problem? should i report it?20:51
ajalkanexmlich02: have you tried uninstalling it and then reinstalling from ovi?20:52
ajalkanewhatever rules you have set won't be lost when you uninstall20:52
xmlich02i do not tried to uninstall it. It is really necessary? Why is it not done by ovi store app?20:54
xmlich02okay, i will try it20:54
ajalkanexmlich02: it should of course not be needed... Ovi store is just weird sometimes20:54
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xmlich02it works after uninstalling and installing21:06
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Sazpaimonhas anyone picked off the coating off of their usb cover?21:33
Sazpaimonit started chipping so one day I just picked it all off21:33
Sazpaimonstill looks fine21:33
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ZogG_laptopSazpaimon: its partly off on mines21:38
ZogG_laptopwonder if it can happen to whole body21:39
jpwhitingdjszapiN9: hey there21:48
jpwhitinganyone know how to install unsigned deb packages in place of signed by nokia ones?21:48
* jpwhiting needs a newer version of telepathy-glib, and has a package, but it's not signed21:48
jpwhitingand aegis complains21:48
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djszapiyou cannot replace an installed package with higher trustlevel.21:49
djszapiI mean not without RDC :)21:49
djszapior security hole for sure, so with ordinary operation.21:49
djszapiand unfortunately they will most likely not update telepathy-glib either :/21:50
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SazpaimonZogG_laptop, I think the cover uses a different coating21:52
Sazpaimonat least it appears that way21:52
ZogG_laptopSazpaimon: i hope so21:55
ZogG_laptopfrals: byw it would be nice to have copy part of tweets or at least whole tweet (if it's still not in new version)21:55
fralsjpwhiting: uninstall existing first and install unsigned works iir22:02
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djszapiI think pretty much stuff depend on telepathy-glib22:04
jpwhitingfrals: hmm, maybe I need to ignore deps when uninstalling?22:04
jpwhitingyeah, it gives 30 packages to remove when I try that22:04
fralsforce-remove and reinstall22:04
fralsmight break when next PR is released but yeah22:04
djszapido not be surprised if something stops working22:05
djszapiI would take a look at the manifest file for starter.22:05
djszapiand I avoid the force stuff in general :P22:06
djszapijpwhiting: do you need it only for one app ?22:06
jpwhitingdjszapi: for the new package? yeah, maybe that could be fixed?22:06
jpwhitingdjszapi: yep, only for one app22:06
djszapido you need a daemon or library ?22:06
djszapior what type of file do you need ?22:06
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jpwhitinglibrary for my new cm22:07
jpwhitingwhich is a daemon22:07
djszapiyou could ship the library with your app22:07
jpwhitingI'm using tp-glib functions that are not in the tp-glib that is installed22:07
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jpwhitingand change the RPath of the binary to look in my folder first or something?22:07
jpwhitingor is that the default for elf executables?22:08
djszapirpath might work in such a simple case, but I used LD_* in kanagram22:08
djszapibecause rpath does not work for a bit more complicated situations22:08
Chaz6i prefer to use runpath instead rpath (--enable-new-dtags)22:09
Chaz6i.e. LD_LIBRARY_PATH env comes first when searching rather than second22:09
djszapijpwhiting: I have a working example for LD_*, and I think I documented the rpath way, too.22:10
jpwhitingdjszapi: you use LD_* in kanagram by making the .desktop file point at a script that sets those vars and runs the binary?22:10
djszapiunfortunately the desktop file standard is limited22:11
djszapiit does not respect env vars.22:11
djszapiso the exe line of the desktop file runs a script22:11
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djszapiwhich is basically the executable with LD_* before the command so that it is set up properly for that session22:11
jpwhitingyep, I've done something like that before22:12
* jpwhiting gives it a shot22:12
djszapitwo liners script:
djszapihashbang + one script line :)22:12
djszapiyou could install an ldconfig file, too, but that "pollutes" the things globally, and I dislike that22:13
djszapiI prefer having such a custom setting only for my session.22:13
djszapiwith ldconfig file, you do not need a hackish script22:13
djszapibut I rather have such a short hackish script than polluting the global settings.22:14
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jpwhitingyeah, that makes sense22:14
jpwhitingI'll try that22:14
djszapiafaik, that is how kalgebra and blinken work too.22:14
djszapikalgebra adds the hackish script in the packaging and not in the project though for I do not know what reason :P22:15
djszapiprobably just simple mistake.22:15
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djszapijpwhiting: check out the original manifest file though. you might need to request something for that library or your app.22:25
jpwhitingk, will do22:25
djszapiin worst case scenario: it requests creds you cannot.22:25
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djszapinpm: ping22:54
jpwhitingdjszapi: hmm, now to get it to build in Qt creator...23:01
djszapiI do not use QtCreator, sorry. :)23:02
jpwhitingnp, I'll sort it out23:03
bluesleedjszapi: hello, do you remember my problem with version mismatch with libxml2 and libxml2-dev, latter from harmattan-dev repos?23:06
bluesleedjszapi: now i can play more on my n9 with my backups with the help of the rescue image23:07
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bluesleedjszapi: last time i apt-get resp. me removed all relevant n9 packages, hehe23:08
bluesleedjszapi: can you build a package for me or did you adressed the general issue to the repo guys?23:08
djszapithe sdk team does not care about it23:09
bluesleeokay, no problem, using maemo4 as harmattan package names is misleading, but in the end its just a name:-)23:10
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itsnotabigtruckblueslee: grab SDK_Sources_PR1.1.iso off doc's website23:14
itsnotabigtruckit contains source packages for most of the oss stuff on n9 pr1.123:15
itsnotabigtrucksome of them are missing stuff...23:15
itsnotabigtruckbut anyway, you can use scratchbox and dpkg-source/dpkg-buildpackage to make a -dev package that's an exact match23:15
itsnotabigtruckthen upgrade the debs in your scratchbox to the output ones from dpkg-buildpackage23:16
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: that is what I recommended to him few weeks ago :P23:18
djszapibut he does not need the sdk image since it is available online package by package even with source file.23:19
SindriavaDid someone actually manage to run KDE on the Nokia N9?23:19
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: i thought the harmattan beta3 repo is quite outdated23:19
itsnotabigtruckwell, it's weird, some stuff is, some stuff isn't, it's a hodgepodge23:19
djszapiif it is outdated, not because of PR1.123:20
djszapimore like because of PR1.2 anyway23:20
itsnotabigtruckfor example:
djszapiSindriava: KDE in what sense ?23:20
itsnotabigtruckthat has the maemo4 version23:20
itsnotabigtrucksdk_sources has the maemo5 version23:20
djszapithat does not mean outdated package...23:21
bluesleedjszapi: its not exactly what you recommended, repackaging was the first idea, docs iso image, hmmm ...23:21
bluesleeitsnotabigtruck: thanx23:21
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: fine, then here's an outdated package23:21
itsnotabigtruckthat's 2.50, sdk_sources has 2.5323:22
SindriavaKde like the desktop environment23:22
itsnotabigtruckwhich has important changes23:22
Sindriavalike desktop session23:22
itsnotabigtrucklike i said, some stuff is updated, some isn't23:22
itsnotabigtruckbut it seems to have nothing to do with what's in pr1.1 -or- pr1.223:23
djszapiSindriava: desktop on mobile ?23:23
djszapidoes that make any sense ?23:23
djszapiblueslee: no, you do not understand23:23
djszapiI also said dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot to yoyu.23:23
djszapialso, I did not mess up with sdk23:24
Sindriavadjszapi: Yup. I was just wondering if its possible to install for example Gnome-Shell on the N923:24
djszapiespecially if you use (as many people do) the "official" repository added to the sources.list23:24
djszapiit will go haywire23:24
Sindriavaor KDE since Qt is already present23:24
djszapiSindriava: I ported kde23:25
djszapibut not plasma since I see no sense in it.23:25
djszapiit is a qgv based ui stack23:25
djszapiplasma active is ugly on N923:25
djszapibut that is not the desktop version anyway23:25
bluesleedjszapi: you might be right, yes23:25
djszapiSindriava: I have a kde app, if you wanna test it :)23:26
djszapiwill be pushing against ovi once they fix the payment issues.23:26
SindriavaDo you have some screens?23:26
djszapinot with the bleeding edge version, sorry.23:26
Sindriavaany screens suffice :)23:27
Sindriavajust for orientation23:27
Sindriavai can't really imagine how it looks23:27
djszapitry it out23:28
djszapifaster than taking a screenshot really :)23:28
djszapiand then hacking out the device for showing23:28
djszapiit can be purge removed in no time after all23:29
SindriavaI don't have the phone yet23:29
Sindriavaso screens are definitely faster :D23:29
djszapiheh nvm23:30
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djszapiblueslee: anyway, try the sdk :)23:31
djszapibecause repackaging seemed a bit of issue for you ;)23:31
SindriavaHow does the porting process even work? You just recompile or do you have to do some coding?23:32
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itsnotabigtruckSindriava: like i said, you can build from the exact same source package used to build for pr1.123:33
itsnotabigtruckand get the dev debs that nokia should have uploaded to the sdk repo in the first place23:33
bluesleedjszapi: i tried dpkg-deb which needed a newer version of tar because of a known bug, apt-getting from the repos was suggesting removing all kind of packages:-)23:34
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SindriavaI see... Thanks :)23:34
SindriavaI can't wait for my 64GB N9 to arrive :323:34
bluesleedjszapi: i am downloading the sdk sources ...23:35
djszapiSindriava: I think itsnotabigtruck wanted to talk to blueslee23:35
itsnotabigtruckwhoops, yeah23:35
djszapiSindriava: porting: I have done most of the work for kdelibs alone sadly.23:35
djszapia full bunch of people work on the porting for debian, so imagine ...23:35
djszapibut you need to port from the ground up23:35
Sindriavaoh ^^'23:35
SindriavaOh yeah, where can i find any news about porting of ICS Android to the n9?23:36
djszapiany help is welcome really23:36
djszapiI do not have time to update to 4.8 for instance23:36
SindriavaA search the forums, but i have no clue23:36
djszapiand 4.7 does not contain the bleeding edge bug fixes23:36
djszapiand plasma components.23:36
itsnotabigtruckSindriava: you can probably give up on ever being able to use your N9 as a phone with android on it23:36
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bluesleeit makes not much sense to run nitdroid on n9, this is my opinion23:37
SindriavaWhy? The n900 seemed to handle android pretty well23:37
djszapiI would love.23:38
bluesleewithout calls it makes less sense23:38
itsnotabigtruckSindriava: ok, so you were talking about repackaging other than blueslee's libxml conundrum?23:38
itsnotabigtruckyeah, that's what confused me23:39
djszapiblueslee: why ?23:39
djszapiperfect match for experimenting with the platform23:39
bluesleedjszapi: you will not be able to replace harmattan, its just about impressing people with multibooting different os'es23:39
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djszapiI mean I do not need to carry two phones all the time.23:39
SindriavaIt would be a shame, the N9 is perfect piece of hardware for ICS23:39
itsnotabigtruckSindriava: anyway, theoretically lots of stuff can be ported with zero code changes23:39
itsnotabigtruckespecially if it's already a debian package23:40
itsnotabigtruckwould need to just tweak the package a bit23:40
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itsnotabigtruckmajor problems are a) dependencies, the N9 repo is pretty thin23:40
djszapithis is unfortunately not true for the kde stack23:40
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itsnotabigtruckso that means you need to port the package, and everything it depends on, and everything those depend on23:40
djszapiit was more months to port.23:40
djszapijust kdelibs.23:40
bluesleedjszapi: thats right, its just playing around, i would prefer easy debian23:40
itsnotabigtruckand b) for gui apps it won't exactly be smooth23:40
itsnotabigtruckit would definitely take quite a bit of code and time to nativize a gui app23:41
itsnotabigtruckdepends on the type of app and how much you care about it looking nice, ofc23:41
djszapiI wish that was the biggest issue :)23:41
SindriavaIs there like a package list of the packages in the N9 repo?23:41
djszapiporting something more serious is a huge amount of time, sadly.23:41
itsnotabigtruckSindriava: easiest way is to dpkg -l from your phone23:42
djszapiSindriava: apt-cache search :)23:42
itsnotabigtruckbut that won't do you any good because you don't have one yet23:42
itsnotabigtruckthe nokia repository is doing some funky user agent checking or something23:42
itsnotabigtruckso you can't just view the packages file23:42
Sindriavaaw :/23:42
djszapiwell I definitely can in sb23:42
Sindriavaok then, is there ruby in the repo?23:43
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itsnotabigtrucker yeah, apt-cache search '', not dpkg -l23:43
djszapiwithout any target phone.23:43
djszapiSindriava: yeah23:43
djszapiis it ?23:43
SindriavaI want to install Vim, and the only dependency i am aware of is ruby23:43
itsnotabigtruckyeah, it's got perl, python2.6, and ruby23:43
Sindriavamaybe only for gvim, though23:43
itsnotabigtruckyou can compile vim without ruby23:43
djszapiI packaged vim, and works23:43
djszapido not worry :)23:43
SindriavaWonderful :)23:44
SindriavaApparently, no real deps23:44
itsnotabigtruckfor some reason python3 is in the dev repo but not the actual repo23:44
djszapiany js/json guru here ?23:44
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djszapi -> does anybody think there is a better json structuring ?23:45
djszapifor conversion between json and xml.23:45
Sindriavais there a git package?23:46
djszapi -> ctrl+f please23:47
ieatlintwhy are you converting to/from json/xml?23:47
djszapior use the search field for this repo.23:47
Sindriavaawesome! Just what i wanted23:47
SindriavaThank you :)23:47
djszapiieatlint: because we support both output formats in our open standard.23:47
djszapiand I would like to have clear mapping between the two outputs back and forth23:48
ieatlintfair enough23:48
djszapiand I have not seen cleaner way than above.23:48
djszapia bit ugly, but works. Other simpler things did not work out.23:48
ieatlintyeah, it looks horrible, but if you want to be able to reliably translate between the two with identical results, it works23:49
itsnotabigtruck<g6:json_group g6:xmlns="urn:omg:such:a:long:namespace:dont:you:love:namespaces:version2_0_1998_360_4800"><g6:json_object classifier="g7:primitives.string" xmlns:g7="urn:very:important:core:things"><g7:value_selector construct="xs:string">hello world!</g7:value_selector></g6:json_object></g6:json_group>23:49
djszapi<e name="value">text</e> -> "e": [ {"@name": "value"} , "text"] instead of "e": { "@name":23:50
djszapi"value", "#text": "text" }23:50
djszapithought it could be something like that23:50
djszapibut apparently not23:50
djszapiif I try to make the above guide simpler, it breaks somewhere to me.23:50
ieatlintitsnotabigtruck: exactly. xml is simple!23:50
jpwhitingdjszapi: ok, when my script runs my binary under /opt/projectname/bin/projectname.bin it says /usr/lib/ version TELEPATHY_GLIB_0.15.6' not found23:50
jpwhitingeven though that's the version of telepathy-glib I have right next to it23:51
ieatlintpeople keep complaining about schema, but they just don't understand that the reason why they hate it is because they're making it too simple23:51
* jpwhiting double checks it's there23:51
itsnotabigtruckto be fair xml isn't that bad, and it can be simple23:51
djszapijpwhiting: /usr/lib ?23:51
itsnotabigtruckbut it has a tendency to attract people who create horrific complexity for bad reasons23:51
itsnotabigtruckjust like java23:51
djszapiwhy not /opt/projectname/lib/ ?23:51
itsnotabigtruckxml is the java of data formats23:51
jpwhitingdjszapi: that's what I'm wondering23:52
ieatlintitsnotabigtruck: i'm purely kidding.. i actually prefer xml to json23:52
djszapijonni: maybe /usr/lib is before the custom path ?23:52
djszapijpwhiting, sorry23:52
jpwhitingmy script at /usr/lib/telepathy/projectname does LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/projectname/bin /opt/projectname/bin/projectname.bin23:52
jpwhitingafter #!/bin/bash23:52
ieatlintjson is a series of arrays, xml is more like a struct23:53
jpwhitingmaybe since it's a telepathy cm telepathy is setting some env that puts /usr/lib before LD_LIBRARY_PATH?23:53
ieatlintand i prefer to parse xml23:53
djszapijpwhiting: I have used #!/bin/sh23:54
djszapibut that might not be relevant23:54
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jpwhitingheh, there is no /bin/bash, brilliant23:54
* jpwhiting fixes23:54
djszapiI do not have any issues with parsing either ...23:54
djszapiI mean both are cool23:54
jpwhitingexcept that harmattan doesn't seem to have /bin/bash installed :)23:55
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djszapijpwhiting: I was referring to the json/xml preferences.23:55
jpwhitingah :)23:55
djszapijpwhiting: btw, planning to make a QtSocial Qt5 add-on module, sort of attica successor for OCS2.x.23:56
djszapior QtCollaboration, not sure about terming.23:56
djszapiit would probably be an abstracted module integrating OpenSocial as a "backend" as well, not just OCS.23:57
jpwhitingdjszapi: nice23:57
djszapijpwhiting: so does telepathy project work now ?23:57
jpwhitingwith /bin/sh? no, still can't run the shell script from a ssh devel-su session23:58
jpwhitingand the Qt creator one sets some env, so maybe that's why /usr/lib was first23:58
djszapitry to export it explicitely.23:58
djszapiwait wait23:58
djszapi"my script at /usr/lib/telepathy/projectname does LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/projectname/bin /opt/projectname/bin/projectname.bin"23:59
djszapiwhy bin ?23:59
djszapiyou put the library into the bin folder ?23:59
djszapiwhy not /opt/projectname/lib ?23:59
jpwhitingthat's where I'm installing the shared lib to23:59
djszapiso try to export it, like:23:59
djszapiexport LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/opt/projectname/lib:LD_LIBRARY_PATH23:59
djszapiorin your case bin23:59

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