IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2012-02-08

griyes, if you use scratchbox - I don't00:00
SqRt7744djszapi, is that an actual question or do you have a better suggestion that you are keeping from us?00:00
djszapithis is false because of several reasons00:00
djszapigri: no, it is not sb specific00:00
grialso scratchbox is not available for the windows users of us00:00
djszapiit has been a very old technology to test ui from the build environment00:00
djszapiit was even possible for fremantle actually00:00
djszapisecondly, ui testing is pretty fast on the phone00:00
itsnotabigtruckgri: virtualbox ftw00:00
djszapiactually, same workflow00:00
djszapiedit qml/done00:00
* djszapi has no idea why one would need custom harmattan build for desktop00:01
SqRt7744djszapi, not as fast as my computer. I used to do it on the phone, but it is a waste of time.00:01
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griEverybody has his own favourite workflow, no need to criticize other ways00:01
Venemogri ++00:01
djszapiI see no point in that workflow00:01
griyou also do not see a point in QtCreator00:02
djszapiI do not see the problem with phone testing seriously.00:02
djszapieverything else seems like a hassle.00:02
SqRt7744who gives a sh*t?00:02
VenemoI prefer testing on da N95000:02
djszapiif qml running on phone was slow, we would have serious troubles with qml apps00:03
VenemoSqRt7744, please be a bit more polite :)00:03
SqRt7744djszapi, it has nothing to do with the UI being slow on the phone, and everything to with changing-building-uploading-to-phone-grabbing-phone-unlocking-screen-mucking-around-putting-phone-down-returning-attention-to-computer, etc, in an endless loop. When I actually want to test the program then of course I do that on the phone, but all the small stuff I just do on the desktop00:04
djszapibuilding huh ?00:04
djszapiwhat are you talking about ?00:05
djszapiqml is an interpreted language00:05
SqRt7744nothing. forget about it.00:05
djszapino need for any build00:05
djszapino need for uploading either00:05
SqRt7744I'm not writing pure QML, but Qt/C++ with a QML ui00:05
djszapisounds like you do not understand the qml development workflow on the phone then00:05
djszapiat lesat how effective it can be00:05
SqRt7744djszapi, sounds like it's time for me to go to bed, i have lost interest in this pointless conversation00:06
SqRt7744good night00:06
djszapiyou got the idea edit/run enough00:06
djszapisounds rude to call pointless for helping you out.00:06
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gridjszapi: I also do not share your opinion in this and talking about this more and more is pointles as SqRt7744 thinks since no one of us will change his favourite workflow which seems to work perfectly for everyone of us :)00:07
djszapiit is a broken workflow objectively.00:08
griwhatever you may call it :)00:08
djszapiit sounds plain fishy.00:09
griyou always have the last word? :D00:09
djszapiyou make an extra build for something that was designed at all for that platform, you test on a platform where it was not designed for, and then you finally need to test on the target platform where it was supposed to work, whereas you could do that directly.00:10
djszapiwas not designed*00:10
itsnotabigtruckgri: using scratchbox is a really good idea's so cool00:10
grideclare the desktop build as simulator00:10
itsnotabigtruckit makes programming the N9 like programming a normal linux system00:10
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itsnotabigtruckhaving to use linux if your normal OS is windows is a disadvantage, but using a VM to access it is worth it00:11
djszapiyou cannot tell it to gri :)00:11
djszapihe has his own workflow :p00:11
itsnotabigtruckalso you can't really port stuff in with just qt sdk00:11
gridjszapi: I usally test everything on the device but I also see a point for the desktop qt-components for harmattan00:12
djszapidesktop qt-components on Harmattan what ?00:12
griqt-components for harmattan on a desktop - better?00:12
djszapido you really think the desktop components fits well on harmattan ?00:12
djszapiyes, that is exactly the opposite :)00:12
griitsnotabigtruck: I'm fine with QtSDK without scratchbox as it runs the application directly on the phone and my application can only be tested on a phone and not in a simulator or scratchbox00:13
djszapiyou do not even need qtsdk for that, but yeah testing on the phone directly rocks00:14
itsnotabigtruckgri: well, depending on the app you could fake the relevant parts when run in scratchbox00:14
djszapiespecially if qtcreator can avoid bothering with repackaging.00:14
gripackaging takes about 3 seconds here00:15
djszapiit takes 0 seconds here :)00:15
itsnotabigtrucki thought your major issue though was that you didn't want to deploy over and over, because doing that is annoying00:15
djszapisinceI do not need to repackage.00:15
itsnotabigtruckfair enough, it is00:15
grithe only thing that takes a while is the installing on the phone00:15
djszapithat is why it sucks.00:15
itsnotabigtruckbut simulation of the device is a big step forward from running the app on windows qt and hoping it works00:15
djszapiwhy not just edit qml files, and run ?00:15
djszapiI do not really understand.00:16
gridjszapi: most of my code is c++00:16
djszapiplease do not change topic00:16
djszapiwe were discussing ui elements above00:16
Venemo~seen sfietkonstantin00:16
djszapifor quick testing00:16
itsnotabigtruckbtw check out kuedo / severant - awesome album00:16
Venemowhere the hell is infobot?00:16
djszapiso ui elements: qml -> why not edit and run ?00:16
gridjszapi: I never edit files on the phone, I would have to copy them back for versioning00:17
itsnotabigtruckVenemo: went kaputt last night00:17
djszapi(the question - initial - was effectiveness, not personal taste)00:17
Venemoitsnotabigtruck :(00:17
grido non-germans understand "kaputt"? :)00:18
djszapigri: no, it copies automatically to the proper place for write00:18
djszapiit is all automated for me.00:18
itsnotabigtruckgri: well, i'm a non-german, so yes :p00:18
djszapieven the run is automated actually.00:19
itsnotabigtruckwe stole your word as slang :D00:19
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djszapiand the ui testing can even be misleading in a fake environment at times.00:21
griI did not say it's perfect but for small tests it's ok00:22
grifor example checking code someone pasted in pastebin00:22
djszapiwhy cannot you test on the device directly, if you have access to that device ?00:23
djszapiat least, I can: 1) vi open 2) paste 3) run00:23
grithere are times where I read questions and don't have my phone plugged at the computer :)00:24
itsnotabigtruckbtw instead of installing you could SCP your files over and run it00:24
itsnotabigtruckjust make sure to run it from develsh if you assert any privileges00:24
djszapigri: the guy did have phone, afaiu00:25
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faenilguess who's baaack00:25
faenilhope not00:25
djszapihitel jugend ? :D00:26
faenilbut people keep blaming the new one too, so...00:26
ieatlintjim henson00:26
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djszapiso even worse ... :p00:27
* djszapi hides00:27
* faenil cries00:27
gridon't! Your tears can become ice very fast these days00:28
ieatlintcan we get a picture of you crying?00:28
faenilright right00:28
ieatlintit'll help lighten up my day00:28
faenilno u cunt!00:28
faeniloops can't00:28
itsnotabigtruckapparently the photo's a shop, but still, lol00:29
faenilno really, I'm going to cry if I don't get the shared context to work within the next hour00:30
faenilI'm just back from volley training, mind's fresh!00:30
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: then encrypt your email :p00:31
itsnotabigtruckdid you try calling eglGetError() and seeing what error you get00:31
faenilno gri sent me a link00:32
itsnotabigtruckthough problematically calling eglGetError resets it, so if qt got there first you won't get the code00:32
faenilwhere they say you can't create a qglcontext without setting its paintdevice00:32
faeniland you can't set the paintdevice00:32
faenilyou have to create qglwidget or qpixelbuffer or stuff like that00:32
faeniland then get its context00:32
itsnotabigtruckthat sort of stuff gets really painful with qt00:33
djszapithat is exactly the way00:33
faenilor subclass qglcontext and implement setpaintdevice00:33
itsnotabigtruckeverything is hidden behind implementation pointers and what not, never mind that there's often gaping holes in functionality00:33
djszapiI believe we also created a qglwidget in gluongraphics.00:33
faenilbut I don't need a widget djszapi00:33
faenilI just need a context00:33
itsnotabigtruckand you need to access the underlying handles to fill in the gap00:33
djszapifaenil: that is your problem with qt then00:33
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faenilqt doesn't let me just create a context :D00:34
faenilI don't want the rest :D00:34
djszapiwhat would be the point of that ?00:34
djszapiyou can create context without qt, too00:34
djszapiespecially if you write a harmattan app.00:35
faenilyes, but I thought it would have been easier with qt :P00:35
faenilsince there is a QGLContext00:35
djszapiwhy do you need qt for creating the context ?00:35
faenilI don't00:35
faenilI just thought it would have been easier than using gl calls and setting all the stuff00:35
faeniland I want it to share data with the ui context00:36
djszapiin the texture we only ask the current context: QGLContext::currentContext()00:36
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faenilyeah but I need two context with the same data so that I can add data in a second thread without messing up opengl00:37
itsnotabigtruckfaenil: QGLContext::fromPlatformGLContext  < what if you try using that00:37
djszapiwell, setting up a context should not be a hassle with gl calls either really :)00:37
itsnotabigtruckit sounds like it lets you create a context with EGL and wrap it in a qt object00:37
itsnotabigtrucknote that using EGL directly is kind of a pita...00:37
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djszapiuhhh, that fromPlatformGLContext is really a dirty one00:38
djszapiasking for an undocumented class that you need to pass.00:39
itsnotabigtruckthis is all assuming the N9 uses egl, on second thought maybe that isn't actually the case00:40
itsnotabigtruckit uses x, so there's a good chance it uses glx00:40
djszapino, it is egl00:40
itsnotabigtrucknah, looks like it does indeed use egl00:40
itsnotabigtruck(sorry if i was being a little redundant earlier w/r/t what djszapi has been saying)00:44
djszapiit is ok :)00:44
djszapiI just also defended the sb, scp workflow :)00:45
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itsnotabigtruckoh btw faenil: there's a bunch of libraries specifically for setting up opengl contexts00:48
itsnotabigtrucki don't know how many of them support EGL00:48
itsnotabigtrucki know that nokia ported and packaged sdl, which can set up opengl contexts00:48
itsnotabigtrucksdl isn't that great but it does do the trick00:48
djszapiqt can also do that, but the codebase is not nice :p00:48
faenilguys, I'll just try creating a QPixelBuffer and then load things on its context :P00:49
djszapiwhy pixelbuffer ?00:50
faenildon't know :) it gives me a context :)00:51
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, looking at the egl api docs00:51
faenila shared context00:51
itsnotabigtruckyou can't select a context without also selecting draw/read surfaces00:51
djszapi -> interesting, we do not have egl-aware debug macro then.00:52
itsnotabigtruckwhich means either using the screen, or a pixbuf00:52
djszapiwe used qglwidget00:52
itsnotabigtruckand i'm not sure if you're allowed to have two contexts on the same surface00:52
djszapiand it worked.00:52
itsnotabigtruckbut qglwidget is intended for rendering things might be heavier than e.g. allocating a 1x1 pixbuf00:52
djszapiI always had the impression pixbuffer is a bit obsolete technology.00:53
djszapimight confuse it with some other jargon name.00:53
itsnotabigtruckwell, i think they're considered obsolete compared to FBOs00:54
djszapiexactly so much00:54
djszapiand we use fbo + glwidget afaik00:55
itsnotabigtruckexcept they're considered obsolete for doing offscreen rendering, but faenil isn't doing offscreen rendering00:55
itsnotabigtruckwell, for now00:55
faenilnah I just need it to add mesh data to the context00:56
faenilit's a 3d model viewer00:56
faenilI want to avoid UI freezing while loading a heavy 3d model00:56
faenilthat's what I'm trying to do00:56
djszapiheh, we already achieved that in gluon :)00:57
djszapiwith qt..00:57
faeniland I'm doing it too :00:57
faenilbecause it's my thesis00:57
djszapicopy/paste gluon :P00:57
faenilnah :D00:57
djszapithat is where you end up in the end though for that functionality00:58
djszapiby the way, the "assimp" library name is a bit weird :)00:58
djszapithat is what we used for importing assets.00:58
djszapimeshes from file afaik.00:58
faenilnow, how do I get the qglwidget which is set as viewport from my QDeclarativeItem? XD00:59
djszapiwhat are you trying to do ?01:00
faenilcreate the QGLPixelBuffer to share the context...01:00
faenilbut I need the current QGLWidget, that's what the QGLPixelBuffer asks for01:00
djszapi..and where does the QDI come into existence here ?01:00
faenilit's the item where I draw models01:01
faenilso that I can make the rest of the UI in qml :)01:01
djszapiwe solved this in gluon because our in game ui is qml based, and the game itself opengl, but I cannot help with the details, I am afraid.01:02
faenilno problem :) anyway, you always said gluon was 2d :)01:02
itsnotabigtruckopengl is a good way to get fast 2d though01:03
itsnotabigtruckas long as you're willing to deal with it being an immense pita to work with01:03
djszapifaenil: and how is the context creation 3d specific ? ;)01:03
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faenildjszapi: it's not, just wanted to know if I had lost any improvement in gluon :D01:03
djszapinot afaik, we still have a 2d implementation, but this is not architectural limitation.01:04
djszapithough, the assimp works with 3d meshes just fine.01:05
djszapibut our particle system is scaled for 3d01:05
djszapiwhich is a problem with the qml2 particles01:05
faenilwell I'm using a big library to deal with meshes, VCGLib01:05
djszapiwhen I last checked their code, it was only x and y.01:05
faenilbuilt from the same research centre I'm doing this software for01:05
djszapianybody idea what type of variable to choose for temporarily storing a stringlist model data, modify and then reassign the temp variable to the model data ?01:10
itsnotabigtruckin c++?01:12
itsnotabigtruckhow about an auto variable01:12
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faenilwonder what's the relationship between QDeclItem::paint(...,...,...,QWidget widget) and the QGLWidget viewport I need01:23
faenilwhat if it's the same :D01:25
faenilmmm...who knows01:26
djszapiwhat I did not like about the context class is that it is not a qobject01:27
djszapiso you cannot catch its destroy so easily and so on01:27
djszapiand multicontext issues are nightmares :)01:27
djszapithe relationship is for instance, QGlWidget is a widget as well01:27
faenilyes of course01:28
faenilsubstitution principle01:28
faenilor I could set the QGLWidget as a qml property01:29
faeniland then set it to the QDeclItem from qml01:29
faenilnah I guess that QWidget is the QGLWidget I'm looking for01:32
faenilthe one you setViewport() from main01:33
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djszapianybody willing to test the app before pushing to OVI ? :)01:55
djszapiit is a super simple anagram game :)01:55
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djszapiyes, they have a strange service02:03
djszapiit is randomly up for few minutes02:03
djszapiin this special case less than 2 minutes :)02:03
djszapiI still have the same link in the browser with my app showed02:03
djszapidid not work after f5 though02:03
ieatlintok, not an n9 friendly link :P02:04
ieatlintbut downloading now from my workstation02:05
djszapido you know a better file sharing service ?02:06
ieatlintnope, i just use a hosted server for such things and scp stuff up02:06
ieatlintwait, how big should it be?02:07
djszapi5.2 MB02:07
ieatlinti get installation failed... download i got was 1596962 bytes02:07
ieatlintyeah, the download got cut off :P02:08
djszapino clue then, sorry.02:08
ieatlintfeel free to email it to me, or just give up :P02:08
djszapiI do not unfortunately know any better service than this02:08
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djszapithey seem to remove the file in 1-2 minutes02:09
djszapimay my bank charge me with some extra fee for making this 1 EUR Ovi payment ?02:19
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ieatlintuh, if your account is in a currency other than euros, you'll probably get a foreign currency fee02:21
djszapiI just recall I had to pay something like 10 EUR more when I did not make the transfer in my netbank account02:22
djszapibut explicitely giving out the data (while booking a flight ticket).02:22
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itsnotabigtruckcredit card foreign currency fees are usually around 3%02:31
itsnotabigtruckso not that big of a deal on a 1 euro charge02:32
itsnotabigtruckbut no idea about it on a debit card02:32
djszapivisa election / debit / eur02:32
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itsnotabigtruckhmm, i'm not finding anything about foreign currency transaction fees there02:45
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itsnotabigtruck(also, 24 euros a year for a debit card? x_x)02:46
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: er, wait a min, your account is probably in EUR, so why is a foreign transaction fee an issue?02:51
itsnotabigtruckbut i did find this
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faenilqml doesn't let you use enums as function parameters :O03:40
ieatlintjavascript doesn't have enums i thought?03:44
ieatlintshould translate back to ints fine03:44
faenilit says type unrecognized03:50
faenilI'm passing the enum from c++ to qml03:50
faeniland qml sees it correctly (the autocompletion sees it)03:50
faenilbut I get the error at runtime03:50
ieatlinthuh... i guess cast it to int in c++ first03:51
faenilI used another workaround03:52
faenilbut eh03:52
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: cool thanks06:01
djszapisorry, I was napping06:01
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: I was thinking of some extra fee stuff because of the money transfer explicitely, and not because of exchange rate06:03
djszapias I said, one of my cards has euro account06:03
djszapibut if I do not make the flight reservation via my netbank, but explicitely: they charge me 10 EUR or so06:03
djszapiand I do not see a netbank payment option for OVI, just explicite one.06:04
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: hmm...are you sure that isn't the airine charging you?06:50
itsnotabigtrucksome european uber-budget carriers charge excessive payment fees for using a credit card06:50
itsnotabigtruckbecause they don't want to pay the 2-3% visa/mc/amex/etc. surcharge06:50
itsnotabigtruckperhaps they save money by having you initiate an eft from your bank?06:51
itsnotabigtruckbut maybe visa electron cards are different...i'm not familiar with those06:53
djszapiit might be the airline, but I am unsure.06:54
djszapiI will ask some Finnish person already registered for OVI :)06:54
djszapionce, they wake up :P06:54
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ieatlintsleep is good though07:02
djszapiI wish I could sleep only once a long, like bears07:05
djszapievery year or so07:05
ieatlintbears sleep year round07:07
ieatlintmany do "hibernate" during the winter, but they still sleep each day07:08
djszapiI would enjoy not sleeping every day, just periodically though.07:08
ieatlintjust do a 30h days... 20h awake, 10h asleep :P07:08
SpeedEvilI want 26 hour days.07:09
SpeedEvilThat would really suit.07:09
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djszapiI think it would be fair if they showed some notification about extra money transfer fee, if that would be the case. I hope they are not gonna charge me since I do not have any notification of those.07:11
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ieatlintmake it 28h days and you'll have 6 day weeks that match the normal week at the beginning/end07:11
djszapiif that was the case*07:11
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npmwow the n900 is only $998 new:
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befordshut up and take my money!07:40
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ieatlinthappy to oblige07:41
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itsnotabigtruckhmm, i just noticed that on the sdk_sources_pr1.1.iso image, the .diff.gz files are omitted08:07
itsnotabigtruckdespite being mentioned in the .dsc (debian source package description) files08:07
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itsnotabigtruckthough actually it looks like a lot of the debian stuff is rolled into the main .tar.gz08:08
djszapianybody using slideshare for uploading the presentation material ? It writes network issue for me with a 4 MB pdf. Is that beyond the limit ?08:15
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djszapiheh, Ovi store: "We are currently experiencing heavier loads than usual. Please try again in a few minutes."09:32
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l32606harmattan doesn't allow to monitor dbus method_call?09:47
l32606i used dbus_monitor cmd and can only got the dbus signal msgs...09:48
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djszapiinteresting why the Nokia Ovi registration fee is rejected without any further information:
ieatlintindeed odd10:01
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djszapido they accept Visa Electron too ?10:01
ieatlinti'm surprised that processing a credit card transaction for 1EUR would be such an ordeal10:02
ieatlintas i recall, visa electron can process the same as a regular visa card10:02
djszapiit is not a credit card10:02
djszapiit is a debit card.10:02
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ieatlintthe distinction is relative these days10:02
djszapianyway, the payment page does not load through the nokia proxy10:03
djszapiwhich is weird for Nokia store :d10:03
djszapisecondly, I get this error with my mobile internet10:03
ieatlintin the US, a debit card can be used exactly like a visa card (or mastercard, as it may be) -- except no credit is issued and (with exceptions) your "credit" limit is your bank account balance10:03
djszapiI do not see any other way than calling them.10:05
djszapiI certainly have one eur on my account :)10:05
ieatlintalternatively you could call your bank10:06
djszapiwhy ?10:06
ieatlinttell them you just tried to charge 1EUR to it via nokia in finland and ask if they somehow stopped it10:06
djszapiit worked just fine yesterday while buying a season ticket.10:06
ieatlintcould be they somehow marked it as potential fraud10:06
ieatlintthey might give you info at least10:07
djszapiI got the error message immediately right after the click10:07
djszapimaybe ~5 seconds.10:07
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* ieatlint shrugs10:07
ieatlintdoesn't take long for it to be approved or denied10:07
ieatlintjust saying your bank may be able to give you info faster than ovi10:07
djszapithis is a shame how much trouble to register a publisher account /me sighs10:08
ieatlintnot so much here...10:09
djszapithat  does not obviously help me10:10
ieatlinti know at one point a nokia manager offered to waive the fee for me10:10
djszapianyway, I do not find any contact number either10:10
ieatlintso you might be able to contact someone who can help10:10
djszapiit is not about the fee10:10
djszapiit is about the trouble10:10
djszapitime wasting...10:10
itsnotabigtruckbtw get a credit card - especially since your debit card has fees10:10
ieatlintthat's the point10:10
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it is not10:11
djszapihaving...asked around.10:11
itsnotabigtruckand depending on your bank, authorizations show up immediately10:11
djszapiis there any contact phone number for these ovi publish stuff guys ?10:11
itsnotabigtruckif they don't, and you're very impatient, you could call your bank and have them look up authorizations against your account10:11
djszapiwell I guess the card number is the 16 (4x4) digits, or ?10:12
itsnotabigtruckoh, you haven't actually charged it yet10:12
itsnotabigtruckwhat was the error you got?10:12
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it is not about waiting10:12
djszapiit is rejected in couple of seconds10:12
TronicDebit charges your bank account instantly. Credit is charged from you only much later (you have to make a bank transfer) even if you are not actually using any credit. At least in Finland...10:12
ieatlint16 digits with a luhn algorithm checksum :P10:13
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: that's your bank10:13
djszapiwhy bank ?10:13
djszapiit works for other payments.10:13
itsnotabigtruckbecause they could check if the payment was declined, or if they even tried to authorize10:13
ieatlintbecause spending 1EUR online at ovi store may be considered suspicious10:13
ieatlintit's not a normal purchase10:14
djszapiactually I am now getting "Connection was resetted"10:14
djszapiieatlint: hahaha10:14
djszapiTronic: no it is for free10:14
djszapiasked others making payment to OVI10:14
djszapithey were not charged at all with anything on top of 1 EUR10:14
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: also i'd imagine you could ping someone at big N through work if the need be?10:14
djszapicontact number would be more useful than randomly bother a main boss because of an ovi publisher account registration :)10:15
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* djszapi gives up and goes back to make something useful10:16
itsnotabigtruckwell anyway, contact your bank, failing that try again, failing that start digging around on the intranet or someting /me shrugs10:17
itsnotabigtruckalso my increasing typo rate is a sign i need some sleep >_> night!10:17
itsnotabigtruckalso, i think there's a good chance the problem is that it's a visa electron, and not a normal visa debit10:19
djszapithat is why I asked above whether anybody else already paid with visa electron10:19
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure if visa electron transactions are accepted through the normal channels10:19
djszapibut since you cannot get, just visa electron in Finland without too much pain10:19
djszapiI would expect a Finnish company does not make this stupid limitation :)10:20
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Hq`ahh... visa electron... it never works :)10:21
itsnotabigtruckapparently some electron cards allow online purchases, others don't10:22
Hq`it's completely different from a 'real' credit card10:22
itsnotabigtruckso that points back to: talk to your bank10:22
itsnotabigtruckthen go sign up for a normal credit card :p10:22
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: easier said than done.10:23
djszapiI was not able to get anything else than visa electron here for the last 18 months :/10:23
djszapiI tried really hard to avoid it because I had many issues with it in Hungary back then ...10:23
itsnotabigtruckah right, i guess you've moved around, and also i have no idea how credit reporting works in the EU10:23
itsnotabigtruckit ought to still be possible to swap out the electron card for a normal debit card10:24
itsnotabigtrucka visa debit (not electron) looks exactly the same as a credit card to websites10:25
djszapiyeah I know :)10:25
djszapiI had that, and I have Hungarian Master card10:25
djszapibut this Finnish bank system is screwed up :)10:25
djszapimy visa electron card was not accepted in Brussels either for buying a flight ticket.10:26
itsnotabigtruckoh, well, pay with that then10:28
djszapithere is no money left on that10:28
djszapieverything is in savings and the like.10:28
djszapialso, that would surely cost additional stuff because we do not use EUR in Hungary.10:28
itsnotabigtruckonly 3% on 1 euro10:28
djszapinah...there is some default price you need to pay no matter what amount...10:29
itsnotabigtruckok, so the options are pretty limited about buying a prepaid visa gift card10:29
djszapihaha and their support email does not work either:
itsnotabigtruckif you're trying to avoid fees that's a bad bet though, they normally cost $5 or so more than the actual value of the card10:30
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itsnotabigtruck here's a web form10:31
itsnotabigtruck for what it's worth, nokia claims to support visa electron10:32
itsnotabigtruckmaybe it's just that your bank is blocking online transactions, so call them and maybe they can flip a switch10:32
djszapithey do not; i could pay in various scenarios, already10:33
itsnotabigtruckwell, weird10:34
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itsnotabigtruckalso apparently a forint is worth about 1/3 of a yen10:34
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: they said online payment is not enabled prolly10:39
djszapibut I did online payment :D10:39
djszapiI wonder why it would not be allowed by default btw10:40
djszapiespecially since it has no additional fees10:40
djszapiyes, it is enabled, so wtf :D10:42
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Hq`maybe some generic "visa electron connection problems"10:43
djszapiright, it accepts only credit cards10:43
djszapithat might be the reason. I do not have any of those.10:43
Hq`it's not uncommon to see "visa electron out of order today" signs...10:43
djszapionly a debit card.10:43
Hq`since it must check your account balance, any connection problem would make the transaction rejected10:45
Jeffrey041is it possible to use Qt Creator for a daemon project?10:46
djszapiit is very frustrating that  it is that much pain to get registered.10:47
djszapiJeffrey041: why not ?10:47
Jeffrey041i don't really understand , what do i fill in for <path/to/daemon_config_file> ?!10:47
Jeffrey041i have so far 2 python scripts, namely and classes.py10:48
Jeffrey041and another upstart config file10:49
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djszapiJeffrey041: for instance sshd_conf I guess10:51
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tabaskowtf, ovi store doesnt log me in anymore :(11:11
tabaskois there some cache file or something I can delete?11:11
tommaJeffrey041, i think it means the upstart config file11:12
Jeffrey041tomma: no idea, gonna figure out how to put everything in the project later11:13
djszapiJeffrey041: why do you need configuration file ?11:14
djszapioh to start it after reboot for instance.11:14
Jeffrey041the upstart thingy? so that the daemon is started after a reboot?11:14
griitsnotabigtruck, djszapi: You're chatting when I go to bed and you're chatting when I stand up ... it seems I need much more sleep than you :P11:15
djszapigri: look at it on the positive side: you do not have so much sucky situation with softwares :P11:15
djszapiJeffrey041: also, make sure qtcreator does not generate false initscript files11:16
djszapi(it did me back then when I tried)11:16
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tommahey! anyone know IAP repository path for QtSDK?11:50
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* djszapi has pr1.0 by hand again, if someone needs testing with that.12:12
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gridjszapi: Any ideas how to get the week of the year without using MCalendar and C time functions?
griQDateTime::toString() does not support %W12:44
grithe pasted code works perfectly but I don't like it :)12:45
gridjszapi: Damn! I never took a look at QDate, thought QDateTime would handle the same ... shame on me12:49 is your friend, so is .time() ;)12:49
djszapiand this is exactly the approach I complained about in qml12:50
djszapithis is missing, to expose a complete embedded object.12:50
djszapilike QTime or QDate in QDateTime12:50
djszapithey do not expose every single method from the inner members either for several obvious reasons.12:50
djszapiand that is clearly missing in qml example I showed few days ago12:50
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griyou can expose a complete embedded object with the alias - or I still don't understand what you're talking about12:56
djszapithat is not the same ...12:57
djszapiQDate and Time will remain individual in any case in different QDateTime instances.12:57
djszapiand that is way more distinct for the currently limited qml operation12:57
djszapibecause with a dirty alias, you will have the /same/ id for everything, losing its uniqueness.12:57
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djszapiso if the clients will not define the id, they will have a tough with a runtime issue, just for one instance.13:01
* gri still does not understand13:04
djszapiyou can alias only a hard coded id right ?13:07
grisure but the id is not valid outside of the .qml file13:07
djszapiif you instantiate the custom component, you will get as many duplicated hard coded stuff as many instantiances ?13:07
djszapiit indeed is13:07
djszapiotherwise the alias would not be any better either13:07
grithe id's are not program global13:08
djszapiyou do not have global13:08
djszapiyou have an instantiance13:08
grithey have to be unique inside one .qml file13:08
djszapiheh, you do not still follow :)13:08
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grimaybe you should speak in code and make an example, otherwise I don't get it13:09
djszapiItem { Rectangle { id: hardcoded-stuff-rocks-yeee; } } -> my component client code: HardCodedStuffRockYeeee {} HardCodedStuffRockYeee {}13:09
djszapihow would you differentiate the two rectangles ?13:09
djszapiI did yesterday many times...13:10
djszapiplease read back.13:10
griyou have to give them ids13:10
djszapithat is exactly the issue, bingo !13:10
griand where's the problem?13:10
djszapiI belive you mean to write "give ids to Items".13:10
djszapiand not them (which was Rectangle in this context)13:11
djszapithe problem is that it is error-prone13:11
djszapiI do not pass an id for fun13:11
griI meant HardCodedStuffRockYeee { id: something }13:11
djszapijust if I need it.13:11
griyeah, I also do it like that13:11
gribut never had problems with exposing something13:11
djszapiyou do not follow :D: D13:11
djszapiplease read back the conversation yesterday, I think.13:12
griI did not understand it yesterday, too :)13:12
djszapiso I would like to do only this "myunique_embedded_element".someProperty = ...;13:12
djszapiand I would not like to force myself to make an id for every single instance13:12
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djszapiespecially because if I somehow remove the outter element, you will get very dirty breakages.13:13
djszapiit is simply not reusable enough.13:13
djszapiI do not seriously understand what you do not understand13:13
djszapiyou need to pass an id to the outter element13:13
djszapithat is the problem13:13
djszapiI would not like, just unique inner elements.13:14
Hq`well if they have a common parent, you can ask it's .children and get a list of pointers to your elements13:14
djszapisince qml does not force me to push ids to an element13:14
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djszapiso it is rather error-prone13:14
djszapiand only runtime mistake that you should really not generate for fun13:14
djszapiHq`: I am not interested in its children13:14
djszapiI am interested only in /one/ element.13:14
gridjszapi: Sorry but I still don't get your problem, the more you talk about it, the more it confuses me13:15
RST38hAnother 4000 nokians laid off13:15
djszapiI do not ask QDate, QTime and all the children in QDateTime either13:15
RST38hAll hw manufacturing shifted to Asia now, to believe the press13:15
djszapigri: very simple, and others could understand on #qt-qml13:15
djszapiI am pretty sure you will be able to do that once :)13:15
gridjszapi: Well I have a general problem in understanding what people try to tell me - even in my native language :)13:16
djszapiit is not that thing after all ...13:16
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djszapi13:11 < gri> I meant HardCodedStuffRockYeee { id: something } -> actually I did not get this bit either.13:17
djszapiyou cannot give unique ids to embedded elements.13:17
djszapiotherwise this problem would not exist at all.13:18
grias alterego yesterday said: We both have many elements with the same id in our code and do not experience any problems13:20
djszapitry what I said.13:20
djszapiItem { Rectangle { id: hardcoded-stuff-rocks-yeee; } } -> my component client code: HardCodedStuffRockYeeee {} HardCodedStuffRockYeee {} -> how would you differentiate the two rectangles ?13:20
djszapiyou would pass an id to /all/ of them even if it is +100 LOC right ?13:21
djszapiI cannot imagine it is solvable otherwise really.13:21
griif I want to create more of them, I would not do this statically13:21
djszapiexactly my point13:21
djszapithis is stupidly static id with property alias13:22
grinow we're at a point where I lost the track again, sorry13:22
* djszapi has the feeling gri is joking all over again13:22
grinope but I have written a lot of qml code and never seen a problem similar to that what you're trying to explain to me13:23
djszapiI have a component which has embedded elements. I would like to instantiate it without having 100+ explicit ids in case of 100+ explicit instantiation13:23
djszapiI do not understand what is so hard to understand about it13:23
djszapiyou have never seen a component with embedded element and more component instantiation ?13:24
djszapiwell... I recommend qt-components for you.13:24
djszapiand its client codes13:24
djszapiqt components has many components containing embedded elements13:24
fralsand they solve it how?13:24
djszapithey do not allow you to access to embedded elements.13:24
djszapiand that is not solving the problem13:25
djszapithat is avoiding.13:25
djszapiand sadly enough, that is my best workaround in my case too13:25
griif you would have access to all inner-id's of an component, there would not be a way to make something protected or private13:25
djszapigri: you are not following again13:25
djszapiI /would/ like to make a component where you can redefine all the properties of a text13:26
djszapifor instance a text in a rectangle.13:26
djszapiI am not saying you should be enforced, but I /would/ like to do.13:26
djszapijust like you choose public/protected/private in c++ anyway13:26
leinirWouldn't a property alias do that?13:36
djszapithat would hardcode the things.13:37
tabaskoanyone else having problems with nokia-account logging in? :/13:37
tabaskonokia market just hangs in login13:38
djszapiobjectName would be the closest approach for a reusable component, but the problem is that if you change the objectname you break the component for the client codes.13:38
djszapiso I went for exposing separately, and limit the numbers for 1-2 for the time being :)13:39
djszapiinteresting, I do not have the background with PR1.0. Is that expected ?13:41
djszapi -> this is the background image description.13:46
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NecrosporusIs it possible to unlock N9 in order to disable Aegis for particular applications?14:04
aard_you can only flash an open mode kernel, which disables aegis for all applications14:06
djszapiokay, so it was a PageStackWindow (and its style)'s limitation14:10
djszapifor PR1.0 -> workaround qrc:/foobar.png instead of foobar.png14:10
NecrosporusWhat does Aegis prevent root from? I wonder if i need to flash OMK at all14:26
djszapiNecrosporus: accli -I in devel-sh14:29
Necrosporusdjszapi, I didn't bought N9 yet, I just consider is it better than android stuff or not14:29
djszapibuy one, and experiment with ~2 weeks :)14:30
djszapiand give back if you dislike it.14:30
djszapibut you can do these:
NecrosporusI live in different country, the law only requires shop to return money back in 14 days if there was any defect in the product14:31
djszapithen borrow one from someone :)14:32
djszapior try to RDA stuff14:32
djszapithe RDA*14:33
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Necrosporusdjszapi, I just wonder if I should buy and android smartphone or nokia n914:36
NecrosporusDoes it have DRM?14:36
djszapino, sadly it was dropped.14:37
NecrosporusWhat do you mean?14:37
djszapiwe worked years on the DRM, and finally it was dropped before the release.14:37
NecrosporusWhich DRM are you talking about, digital restrictions management or direct rendering manager?14:38
meceNecrosporus, well it has one giant benefit over android phones: It's not just another android phone!14:38
djszapiNecrosporus: digital rights management or so14:40
RST38hDRM dropped? Gooood.14:40
NecrosporusWhy is it 'sadly'?14:40
NecrosporusPresence of DRM is strong argument against buying a device14:41
djszapibecause that was the base for the whole security protection and we spend at leasy 10-20 man years with it.14:41
RST38hToo bad the whole security protection has not been dropped14:42
RST38hBesides, haven't you told us here that the security protection scheme is to protect users from hackers breaking into their devices? =)14:42
djszapiDRM is needed anyway14:42
djszapimanufacturers and so on were supposed to provide it after all on meego too14:42
NecrosporusDRM is a great plague of modern electronics14:43
djszapiwe did it internally, but it was a /huge/ demand from vendors.14:43
NecrosporusThus vendors must GTFO if they can't live without DRM14:43
djszapisorry, but I do not have the sake to argue about irreal things14:44
djszapiif that is needed for them, we need to make money.14:44
NecrosporusSecurity must work for user will, if it doesn't it is not security, but rather handcuff14:44
* djszapi goes away, has better things to do :)14:44
NecrosporusSecurity must protect user data from malicious applications, it must not hinder user from sharing data and it must not deny user from doing anything she wants to14:45
NecrosporusAnyways, I will think further about buying N914:46
NecrosporusIf N9 doesn't have DRM and Android smartphones does, that's an argument for N914:46
djszapiyou can beat a dead horse if you do not get money out of it.14:46
djszapiand you need to get by.14:46
djszapithat would be just plain silly.14:46
sp3000what if the horse ate some money14:47
djszapihaha :D14:47
djszapiso you can blame the industry why it requires it.14:47
NecrosporusI wish a device which I can use in freedom, like Neo Freerunner, but working out of the box14:47
djszapiand at any was dropped, so your problem is fixed ?14:47
NecrosporusI do not know, is it possible to remove skype, adobe flash and other proprietary applications and replace it with some free ones, like mplayer and ekiga?14:48
djszapiyou cannot replace joikuspot for one.14:49
NecrosporusIs it possible to just remove skype without losing ability to do regular phone calls and so?14:49
djszapilet me try14:50
fluxI guess it is impossible to replace packages that have nokia packages depending on them?14:50
djszapiwell, it is not installed on my N950 here.14:50
djszapiflux: and what depends on skype ? :)14:50
fluxdjszapi, indeed, probably nothing14:50
fluxbut as a general rule-of-thumb14:50
djszapiNecrosporus: let me try with PR1.0 here.14:51
djszapion N914:51
fluxso things like upgrading gstreamer might be impossible.14:51
fluxor upgrading any library used by any required nokia binary..14:51
djszapiand that is really strange you cannot try out such an expensive phone14:51
NecrosporusDoes Android work on N9 yet?14:51
djszapiflux: you can hack around14:51
fluxdjszapi, hmm, how?14:51
djszapiflux: see qt5 for example.14:52
djszapior basically kdelibs14:52
djszapiyou can put the stuff into different prefix14:52
djszapiand use the LD_* thingie14:52
djszapito use that library.14:52
fluxwell, you cannot make the existing programs use that library14:52
djszapior just install with different name :)14:52
fluxwhich may remove the point of upgrading the library in the first place14:52
fluxof course you can link your own apps statically or whatever..14:52
djszapino no14:52
djszapinot statically, dynamically as it is usual14:52
fluxit was covered by 'whatever' ;)14:53
fluxI could use LD_LIBRARY_PATH and install the same libraries with the same names for your own app14:53
flux(at least I would expect that to work)14:53
djszapithat is what I do, yes.14:54
djszapiNecrosporus: I did not hear about Android.14:54
djszapion N9, that is.14:54
fluxfor example: good thing I don't want to upgrade, say, libflac to a newer version, because I don't see how the normal media player would ever use the new version14:55
djszapito make the long story short for Necrosporus it is not a complete hacker phone.14:56
NecrosporusI wish a regular smartphone which will work for me rather than working on big brother14:56
NecrosporusI do want electronic device to protect my privacy rather than copyright of rich men14:57
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NecrosporusI do not want to pay for handcuffs15:01
djszapiyou already told tat.15:02
NecrosporusBut I'm not a phone hacker, so stuff like freerunner or DIY phone is not for me15:02
NecrosporusSo what's better, N9 or some other device?15:02
NecrosporusOr there is no such device at all?15:02
petteriN9 is the best device out there. Get it and be happy15:02
djszapimy vote is on N9, but I am biased after all :)15:02
NecrosporusThere is Replicant project to make Android free, but it unfortunately works on very limited set of devices15:03
NecrosporusPlus it doesn't support regular applications15:04
NecrosporusDoes N9 have gcc on it?15:04
NecrosporusIs it able to run perl programs out of the box?15:04
NecrosporusGNU bc?15:04
fluxare you sure about perl?15:05
NecrosporusI want to be able to use GNU bc15:05
fluxshould be easy to compile for it15:05
fluxit's not a very demanding piece of software..15:05
NecrosporusBecause I need a calculator and usual phone calculators is too poor to use it actually15:05
fluxmy n9 has perl in it15:06
djszapiNecrosporus: yes, perl is available15:06
djszapithe dpkg wrapper is written in perl15:06
petteriyes there is perl, but no bc15:06
djszapialso, gcc is inside teh repository15:06
djszapiyou can install it anytime15:06
fluxnecrosporus, you might want to check out AlmostTI15:06
petteriyou can get these "normal" linux programs from rzr's repo15:06
fluxhowever, AlmostTI doesn't have vibra feedback so it can be quite tedious to hit the small keys :)15:06
djszapibc is also available from the community repository.15:06
NecrosporusI'd prefer GNU bc which I already know15:07
NecrosporusIs there any applications to play game of Go?15:08
djszapiwhat is Go ?15:08
fluxI'm afraid not15:08
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NecrosporusThat's game, two players place stones on intersections of 19x19 square board15:09
Necrosporusblack goes first15:09
NecrosporusIf a group of stones is surrounded completely it is taken off the board15:10
NecrosporusAfter two players pass, which is alternative to placing a stone, game ends and they count scores15:10
NecrosporusTerritory + captured opponent stones15:11
NecrosporusTerritory is empty intersections which are completely surrounded by stones of one color15:12
djszapihey, any good practices what to check before pushing a package into OVI ?15:12
djszapisome common pitfalls ?15:12
djszapitried to go through this:
Necrosporusdjszapi, at least check if it is possible to install it on stock phone and everything is working15:12
djszapialready done ;-)15:13
djszapion PR1.2 and PR1.115:13
djszapion PR1.2 and PR1.0*15:13
NecrosporusIs flasher a closed source application?15:13
Necrosporusdjszapi, than check if it have all required signatures and have proper icon and description15:14
NecrosporusI do not like running proprietary applications15:14
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djszapisignature ?15:15
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Necrosporusdjszapi, even packages for debian has its digital signatures15:17
djszapinot following.15:17
djszapiI had the impression the output of dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot is enough for me ..15:17
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NecrosporusI guess, you may put the application into store if everything seem ok and if something is not, you will get a bug report15:19
NecrosporusBy the way, is the application open source?15:19
Necrosporusand free software15:19
djszapinot just open source, but even open minded ;-)15:19
NecrosporusSo is it licensed by  GPL or similar license?15:20
NecrosporusAnd what does it mean open minded?15:20
djszapino, it is LGPLv215:21
NecrosporusIs there also some software repository alternative to Ovi? Like F-droid for Android, having only free applications15:21
NecrosporusThat's ok15:21
djszapiyes, apps4meego, community repository etc15:22
NecrosporusIs it possible to remove ovi store application?15:22
djszapiofc lol15:22
NecrosporusI mean, to remove that application which provide ovi store15:22
tabaskoNecrosporus: yes, but why?15:22
NecrosporusI have an android device, and I have reflashed it in order to remove google apps, adobe flash and some other application which is known for being proprietary15:23
Necrosporustabasko, is ovi store open source?15:23
NecrosporusI mean, the ovi store client15:23
Jeffrey041necrosporus: don't use it then?15:24
Jeffrey041why the hassle?15:24
djszapiNecrosporus: nope as far as I know15:24
NecrosporusThan why wast space on main menu?15:24
Jeffrey041necrosporus: use #nemo?15:24
admiral0__Necrosporus: All UX is closed15:24
alteregoOr remove .desktop15:24
alteregos/remove/move/ to be safe ;)15:24
Necrosporusas far as I know it's still alpha15:24
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Jeffrey041Necrosporus: i think they are using rolling release, so bug fixes should be deployed fast enough15:25
djszapiis any device shipped with nemo and warranty ?15:26
tabaskoyah, but nemo doesnt still include phone functions, this is bit killer for me :)15:26
djszapibecause I do not think he would like to lose the warranty...15:26
djszapifor an expensive device like this.15:26
djszapitabasko: really ? :)15:26
djszapiI thought it is usable for daily usage.15:26
NecrosporusMaybe I have to wait for Nemo to became stable enough and buy the device only when it will?15:27
djszapiNecrosporus: you will lose the warranty15:27
NecrosporusAnyways is there any way to play the game of Go on N9?15:27
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Jeffrey041but you can't really have both, software freedom and superb ux, at least for now15:27
Jeffrey041i mean swipe ui15:27
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Necrosporuswhat's ux?15:27
tabaskodjszapi, dont have tried it yet. But thats what I have heard/read :)15:27
Jeffrey041user experience15:27
tabaskoso experience youre feeling is closed15:28
Jeffrey041lol, not a foss guy here15:28
NecrosporusThat's bad, I thought Meego is more open than maemo15:28
Jeffrey041necrosporus: replace the ux layer then you are free :)15:28
NecrosporusBut is there any other ux layers?15:29
NecrosporusAlso, would N9 run openmoko stuff?15:29
Jeffrey041build one, or port the one on #nemo over?15:29
Jeffrey041isn't openmoko qt based too?15:29
NecrosporusOpenMoko is based on GTK15:29
Jeffrey041what about cordia?15:29
NecrosporusThere is some Qt based stuff however15:30
Jeffrey041if you are really into foss, you really shouldn't get a mass market device like n9 :P15:30
NecrosporusQtopia for instance15:30
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NecrosporusJeffrey041, I'm into FOSS, but I want the device to work out of the box with minimal effort15:31
NecrosporusLike I have with my laptop and Slackware GNU/Linux15:31
NecrosporusIt's easier to install and use than, i.e. windows15:31
Jeffrey041but flashing ur n9 to cordia/nemo would definitely void your warranty15:32
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djszapiNecrosporus: where are you from ?15:33
Jeffrey041cordia should be more feature complete as it is based on hildon15:33
Jeffrey041but i have no idea how stable it is15:33
Jeffrey041i still like swipe UI :)15:34
NecrosporusJeffrey041, I do not think flashing anything would void hardware warranty15:35
NecrosporusAt least, installing other OS onto a laptop doesn't void its warranty15:36
Jeffrey041would it not? not gonna flash my harmattan to something else to prove my point tho15:36
Jeffrey041installing alternative OS to your branded PC may not void your warranty, but they would refuse to fix it if shit happens lol15:37
NecrosporusJeffrey041, I do not think that service men would investigate much, they will probably flash stock firmware if there is any software errors15:37
NecrosporusYeah, probably15:37
Jeffrey041no idea, NCC malaysia explicitly states warranty is void if my mobile is flashed to anything else but harmattan15:38
Jeffrey041speaking of NCC, my sis' N9 died twice lol15:38
alteregoYou will effectively void warranty by installing any kind of other OS on the device.15:39
alteregoBut I do it, so meh :)15:39
djszapialterego: on an expensive N9 you bought ?15:39
Jeffrey041lol, i would do that too if i have another device on hand lol15:39
djszapibecause N950 was designed for that15:39
djszapialterego: LOL15:39
alteregoThough haven't in a while, I use the N950 for that.15:39
djszapigive me money millionaire :P15:40
NecrosporusI guess, I may flash hartman back if anything goes wrong15:40
alteregootoh, it may void warranty to a certain "extent" a valid hardware failure, regardless of flashing (at least in the EU) would still warrant replacement/repair if the product could be deemed defective.15:40
Jeffrey041necrosporus: why don't you just buy something else than N9??!15:41
alteregoGreat, I've just bricked an N9 by enabling dev mode.15:41
alteregostoopid images.15:41
Jeffrey041alterego: how?15:42
alteregoWell, maybe it isn't bricked, seems to be starting again now.15:42
Jeffrey041shouldn't it be fool proof?15:42
alteregoWell, there are your normal day fools.15:42
alteregoAnd then there's me ;)15:42
alteregoNeah, it's come back up.15:42
NecrosporusI guess, that's fair, if user is able to flash stuff, he must be smart enough to fix software problems himself, but hardware warranty should not be void in any case except hardware damaged by incorrect usage15:42
NecrosporusJeffrey041, for example what?15:43
alteregoNecrosporus: indeed, a hardware defect is a hardware defect regardless of software you may have hacked on to it.15:43
NecrosporusIsn't N9 _only_ mass market modern smartphone with GNU/Linux?15:43
Jeffrey041no idea, as i don't fancy getting a device that is foss compliant15:43
Jeffrey041any android phone flashed to cyanogen or something like that?15:44
alteregoObviously though, software can cause hardware failures, by hammering things too hard, like CPU, memory, etc. That would be something that could possibly be hard to prove to _not_ be caused by a rampant rogue OS on your device ;)15:44
NecrosporusN900 and Freerunner is not modern and panda hybrid Freerunner is not mass market15:44
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Jeffrey041well, i would still get a (used) n900 if the price is right :)15:44
alteregoI've got a few N900s, still use them for various things around the house ;)15:45
Jeffrey041probably not modern, but should be on par with most low-end models now15:45
Jeffrey041on par if not better15:45
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NecrosporusJeffrey041, cyanogen mod is still android, so it's not gnu linux and it wont run usual linux applications without messing around with chroot15:46
NecrosporusBut it's a valid question, what's better, N9 or some android device15:47
NecrosporusBut most of android device manufacturers pay Microsoft15:47
NecrosporusSo if I buy an device of such a manufacturer I will be supporting our enemy, which is not what I want15:48
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NecrosporusIs it possible to make aegis work as it is for everything except root shell in the terminal?15:53
Jeffrey041have you read the thread on fmc on open mode?15:54
RST38hNecrosporus: I think you should read Harmattan Wiki and make your own decision15:54
NecrosporusSo user will be able to load any kernel modules and run any binaries but malicious applications won't15:54
RST38hBecause no matter how many times you ask here, the answers will be: "No.", "You have to run in open mode", "No.", "Unless you figure out how to jailbreak it", "No."15:55
RST38hAsking an extra time will not change the answer15:55
Necrosporusdoes N9 boot from flashdrive?15:57
Necrosporusor something15:57
NecrosporusMy android device does if there is sd card inserted, it will boot from the card15:57
Jeffrey041N9 doesn't have a memory card slot15:58
Jeffrey041you probably should ask these questions on #N9 :)15:58
NecrosporusBut seller said it has microsd slot15:59
Jeffrey041then buy from the seller :)16:00
Jeffrey041i am sure mine doesn't have a microsd slot16:00
sp3000sd, sim, whichever, right!16:00
NecrosporusSo there's an SD slot?16:03
NecrosporusWe were told Open Mode would mean we'd lose a few things, some DRM'd apps, potentially Ovi Music, and god knows.16:03
Jeffrey041sd: no16:03
nid0there is no sd slot on an n9.16:03
Jeffrey041open mode: isn't that what you're after16:03
NecrosporusI think DRMed apps is certainly proprietary and closed source, so I would prefer not having it at all16:03
jreznikare there any DRM apps? even Ovi Music mp3s are non DRM16:04
NecrosporusI would prefer Vorbis or flac16:04
NecrosporusDoes N9 play vorbis and flac out of the box?16:04
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djszapiNecrosporus: vorbis yes16:05
djszapi -> flac is available from the repository.16:05
djszapibut there is no libvorbis if that is what you meant16:05
djszapithere is this libvorbisidec integer version.16:05
djszapiand FYI: we do not need signing for Harmattan apps16:06
djszapiOvi Store does that automatically for every single submitted package.16:06
NecrosporusDoes N9 block sending mp3 files over bluetooth?16:07
NecrosporusN73 does16:07
Jeffrey041my n81 doesn't block16:07
Jeffrey041that's weird16:07
Jeffrey041n9 doesn't too16:08
TronicWTF, doesn't N9 do them out of the box?16:11
TronicN950 does FLAC, MKV and plenty of other formats out of the box.16:11
NecrosporusI wonder if it's possible to buy N95016:12
djszapinot yet16:16
djszapiJeffrey041: I was wrong, actually there were already buyable ones16:19
djszapion several forums.16:19
NecrosporusBut it won't be possible to buy new one?16:20
djszapiask Nokia16:22
djszapiI would not speculate myself.16:22
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tabaskodoes anybody know how I could hide simcard-icon? :)16:23
djszapiyou are 7-8 months late with N950 request :D :D16:23
Jeffrey041not like it is easy to apply for one anyway16:23
JackaLXTronic: I just checked on my N9... flac and mkv _do_ work out of the box.16:24
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djszapiJeffrey041: it was super simple anyway16:29
djszapiI have not heard anybody requesting, and not getting really :)16:29
Jeffrey041wasn't a mobile dev back then16:29
Jeffrey041am not too now anyway lol16:30
Corsacdjszapi: I asked for one and didn't got it16:30
Jeffrey041i thought one would need to submit a proposal or something16:31
djszapiCorsac: It does not mean it was not super simple to get16:31
djszapibut why did you not get ? Did you request it in time btw ?16:31
djszapior after the list was full ?16:31
djszapiJeffrey041: yes, but is that hard ? :)16:31
alteregotabasko: delete the .desktop entry16:31
djszapiI mean they are not meant to be for average user usage, but for development :)16:31
Corsacfor app development16:32
Jeffrey041nah, wasn't a (trying to be one now) qt developer back then16:32
Jeffrey041but saw one in a meego meet up in malaysia16:32
Jeffrey041looks good tho16:32
djszapiI prefer N9 though.16:32
djszapiand that is a bit simpler to get nowadays for free16:32
djszapiat various hack stuff.16:32
Jeffrey041yea, that's why I bought one16:32
djszapiCorsac: so you applied before the list was full, and they said you were not selected ?16:33
Jeffrey041(mainly because my n81 decided to die right before n9 came out)16:33
djszapiWhat was your proposal ?16:33
Corsacdjszapi: I wasn't proposing app development :)16:33
djszapiJackaLX: no, flac does not work properly with mobility16:34
djszapiit might work with the music player, but that is not the whoel N9 :)16:34
djszapiCorsac: some other people either, like hostmode development, or porting debian16:34
tabaskoalterego: from /usr/share/applications ?16:35
tabaskowhich name it has?16:35
djszapiusb hostmode is not even possible, and the phone still was given for that task :D16:35
djszapiso I wonder what proposal could be rejected after that :)16:35
Corsacdjszapi: I asked for security subsystem analysis/audit/…16:36
JackaLXdjszapi: I'm curious, where would one want to play a flac format file if not in a music player?  I don't have any movie files with flac audio to see if the video player could handle it16:37
djszapiJackaLX: another music player for instance, using mobility16:38
djszapiCorsac: damn, that would have been pretty good...16:38
tabaskoalterego: ah, found ~/.local/share/applications16:38
djszapiJackaLX: not sure what the music player uses for decoding flac, if not the flac library itself. Probably some gstreamer quirk16:39
Corsacdjszapi: yeah, that's why I proposed, but I think at that time they were more interested in having apps ready for N916:39
djszapiyou are the first one I heard rejected.16:40
CorsacSorry, your request to join the MeeGo community N950 developer device16:41
Corsacprogram has not been accepted. We have 250 devices for 600 requests and16:41
Corsacit is impossible for us to make everybody happy.16:41
CorsacI guess I wasn't the only one :)16:41
Jeffrey041but i thought they gave out more than 250?16:41
alteregoThey gave out a lot more, but there were other programmes.16:42
JackaLXdjszapi: /usr/lib/gstreamer-0.10/  So yeah, it is a gstreamer thing, although the fact remains... N9 CAN play flac out of the box16:42
Corsacyup, I got a mail from Quim about an extension, which I replied to, but got no answer afaict from my inbox16:42
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djszapiCorsac: impossible projects got devices16:46
djszapiand possible ones not lol.16:46
djszapiJackaLX: not N9, but the music app because they hacked it.16:47
djszapitry to use mobility, and you will face issues.16:47
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djszapiQtOpenAL cannot be used for flac decoding either without the flac decoding library.16:48
djszapithis is the same situation with alure.16:48
djszapibut yeah, the music app then solved it (though I have never tried that)16:49
djszapiCorsac: I can imagine the first X got the devices roughly and they did not go through 600 applications.16:51
djszapito assess it technically.16:51
djszapimaybe 1-2 known people from the community at the end, but I do not think they actually went through technically 600 applications.16:52
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xmlich02Hi, I was trying to install haramttan sdk on fedora 16. The scratchbox has on second pass, but i think its broken, because apt/sources.list contains only debian squeze repositories, but not harmattan repositories17:42
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xmlich02Here is installation log
Jeffrey041is it possible to build deb with pyside code using qt creator?17:50
xmlich02The only error in installation log is this one: "W: GPG error: squeeze Release: Unable to read /etc/apt/trusted.gpg.d/ - opendir (2: No such file or directory)"17:51
jpwhitinghey all, I have a QPixmap, and need to load it into a QML Image, is the only way to use a QDeclarativeImageProvider?17:56
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Jeffrey041friend is helping me to build a package with pyside code18:22
Jeffrey041and i am getting this error18:22
Jeffrey041:-1: error: Packaging Error: Command '/Users/jeffrey04/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad dpkg-buildpackage -nc -uc -us' failed.Exit code: 218:22
Jeffrey041what is the problem here?18:23
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Jeffrey041in full, i am getting these error18:25
Jeffrey041find: -printf: unknown option18:25
Jeffrey041dh_installdeb: command returned error code18:25
Jeffrey041make: *** [binary-arch] Error 118:25
Jeffrey041dpkg-buildpackage: failure: debian/rules binary gave error exit status 218:25
Jeffrey041Packaging Error: Command '/Users/jeffrey04/QtSDK/Madde/bin/mad dpkg-buildpackage -nc -uc -us' failed.Exit code: 218:25
Jeffrey041Error while building project restricted-mode-toggler (target: Harmattan)18:25
Jeffrey041When executing build step 'Create Debian Package'18:25
jpwhitingJeffrey041: looks like an error in your debian/rules file18:26
djszapiJeffrey041: please use some paste sites :)18:26
jpwhiting:) yep18:26
Jeffrey041jpwhiting: i get those from qtcreator18:26
jpwhitingpastebin is your friend18:26
Jeffrey041lol, sorry18:26
jpwhitingJeffrey041: in compile output tab?18:27
djszapihey itsnotabigtruck :)18:27
itsnotabigtruck> find: -printf: unknown option18:27
Jeffrey041jpwhiting: yes18:27
itsnotabigtruckwell, that's the problem...grep your package files for printf maybe?18:27
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itsnotabigtruckif you're using the printf shell command maybe it's being stuck on the end of a find command18:27
itsnotabigtruckthat would do it, probably18:28
Jeffrey041package files?18:28
itsnotabigtruckyou know, anything that isn't code18:28
itsnotabigtruckon second thought it's probably in your makefile install target18:28
Jeffrey041no idea, got everything set up by qt creator18:28
Jeffrey041 < the complete compile log18:28
itsnotabigtruckbtw don't pastebin things with the privacy set to public :p18:28
itsnotabigtruckapparently -printf is an argument to find...on some versions18:30
djszapiJeffrey041: as jpwhiting advised: can you show the debian/rules file ?18:30
itsnotabigtruckprobably not on busybox or whatever madde uses though18:30
Jeffrey041let me find where it is18:30
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itsnotabigtruckit's not your fault18:31
itsnotabigtruckare you using os x? because if so that's def it18:31
itsnotabigtruck(as your dev OS)18:31
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Jeffrey041yea, using os x18:32
Jeffrey041snow leopard18:32
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djszapiuse gnu find :)18:32
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Jeffrey041so moral of the story: use any linux distro for harmattan development? lol18:33
itsnotabigtruckbasically yeah18:33
itsnotabigtruckspecifically debian or ubuntu18:33
djszapiwhat the heck is qtcreator doing ? :)18:33
djszapinever had the need for such a file/code.18:34
itsnotabigtruckthat's a good question...i'm having trouble figuring out what that line actually does18:34
djszapiI have ported 200-300 packages.18:34
djszapibut I never had to have such a file/content.18:34
itsnotabigtruckok, what it's doing is stripping the buildroot prefix off of it18:35
itsnotabigtruckto generate a conffiles list18:35
itsnotabigtruckit's assuming every file in /etc/ should be considered a conffile18:35
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itsnotabigtruckwhich means that when you upgrade the package, if you modified the file, the user is asked whether to overwrite it or set it aside for merging18:36
djszapiphantastic qtcreator :)18:37
itsnotabigtruckwell, it looks like it's actually debhelper (debian code) which explains why it's relying on gnu stuff18:37
alteregoWell, everything under /etc should generally be a configuration file :P18:37
Jeffrey041erm, where is this dh_installdeb?18:37
djszapiI would not bother with such a generated code.18:37
itsnotabigtruckso Jeffrey041: if you hack the problematic script and change out the line to the one at the very end18:37
itsnotabigtruckof the bug comments18:38
itsnotabigtruckthen it'll regex away the path prefix, which is slightly less reliable but is ok realistically18:38
Jeffrey041where is the script located?!18:38
itsnotabigtrucki think it says somewhere in the bug too :p18:39
djszapiJeffrey041: debian folder.18:39
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itsnotabigtrucknope, well, try a find -name dh_installdeb18:39
itsnotabigtruckfrom the root of madde18:39
djszapidebian file is nope in the debian folder ? huh ? :)18:40
itsnotabigtruckalso alterego: sort of, but you don't necessarily always want the conffile treatment18:40
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, i'm not sure what you mean by the 'debian folder' - this isn't one of the package control files18:40
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itsnotabigtruckit's a system script that's probably somewhere in the madde root18:41
djszapiI do not think debian file is part of the project18:41
alteregoitsnotabigtruck: maybe _you_ don't but what if a user expects it?18:41
djszapiit is more like part of the packaging which is the debian folder.18:41
alteregoAnyway, for "apps" you probably want to stick your config under ~/.config or something ..18:41
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: it's's part of "debhelper" which is a set of system scripts for automating package generation18:41
djszapiand that is what I meant with the debian folder.18:42
itsnotabigtruckthose scripts don't go with the user code/etc.18:42
djszapiyes of course18:42
itsnotabigtruckoh...normally the 'debian folder' is where the user puts all the control files18:42
itsnotabigtruckrules, changelog, postinst, etc.18:42
djszapiwell I will not argue about misunderstand if it is clear by now :)18:43
itsnotabigtruckanyhow...jeffrey041: did the find command work?18:43
djszapiI had also weird issues in madde I have never experienced in scratchbox.18:43
alteregodjszapi: you should perhaps be clearer to be better understood. I don't see how anyone can think "debian folder" refers to debians packaging helper scripts ..18:44
alteregoOr, if you're wrong, just say so.18:44
djszapiwell I will not argue about misunderstand if it is clear by now :)18:44
alteregoSure, whatever, you don't argue when you're wrong. I get it.18:45
alteregoitsnotabigtruck: what is the nature of your application?18:45
itsnotabigtruckalterego: mine? Jeffrey041 is having the build problem :p18:46
djszapialso, I find it weird on the qt bug tracker if it is actually a madde issue18:46
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alteregoitsnotabigtruck: like I said, you should probably use the /home/user/.config directory for your applications' configuration. /etc should be used strictly by system processes.18:46
alteregoOh, Jeffrey041 then ;)18:46
Jeffrey041itsnotabigtruck: found it18:46
Jeffrey041not really paying attention to the chat, did i miss anything lol?18:46
itsnotabigtruckJeffrey041: ok, so patch it :D18:47
djszapiI do not still understand why they generate that automatically.18:48
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itsnotabigtruckbtw @everyone < live calendar icon for PR1.118:48
itsnotabigtrucki didn't realize PR1.2 already had this functionality when i made it... /me blushes :P18:48
alteregoitsnotabigtruck: hah, yeah, they stole your idea ;)18:49
itsnotabigtruckbut it's still pretty neat for us N9-owning plebeians18:49
alteregoI did notice that and chuckled to myself.18:49
itsnotabigtruckunlike the previous attempt that's in the ovi store right now, this one uses a scheduled task and reacts to time and time zone changes18:50
Jeffrey041wahahaha, i don't see my package18:50
itsnotabigtruckso e.g. if you disembark from a plane and take your phone off flight mode at 0100h local time, it'll autoupdate the calendar18:50
Jeffrey041dunno where it is18:50
djszapiJeffrey041: it is probably not done yet since there was an error18:51
alteregoitsnotabigtruck: neat :)18:51
djszapior you already patched it and it built ?18:51
Jeffrey041done without an error18:51
djszapiJeffrey041: it is out of the projectroot normally.18:51
itsnotabigtruckJeffrey041: normally packages go into the directory just above the source code folder18:51
djszapiat least in my scratchbox.18:51
djszapinot sure about qtcreator.18:51
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itsnotabigtruckso, foo/debian/../..18:52
itsnotabigtruckbut maybe qtcreator moves them somewhere else yeah18:52
Jeffrey041no idea18:52
djszapifind :)18:52
djszapifind ./ -name *.deb or so18:52
itsnotabigtruckmake that -name '*.deb'18:53
itsnotabigtruckto prevent shell wildcard expansion18:53
djszapior \*.deb18:53
djszapiI never use quotes myself, and had no problems so far.18:53
alteregoYes, but you do have to escape it.18:54
alteregoquoting is more convenient when you've got more wildcards.18:54
djszapiand where do you see more wildcards above ? :)18:54
alteregoI don't see an escape either, I was mearly pointing out the best use of both.18:55
Jeffrey041ok, found it18:55
djszapiwhere was it ?18:55
Jeffrey041in the build directory18:55
alteregoqtcreator creates it under ../project-build-harmattan/project_v.v.v.deb18:55
alteregoOr something similar.18:56
Jeffrey041cos os x doesn't assign a different icon i overlooked just now lol18:56
djszapiJeffrey041: I might need your help with testing a qt patch if/when you have time and sake.18:57
itsnotabigtruckbefore installing it, it might be a good idea to examine the content to make sure your program's actually in there, and it didn't do anything stupid18:57
itsnotabigtruckalso make sure you're asserting all the privileges you need18:57
alteregodpkg -x ftw :)18:57
Jeffrey041djszapi: huh? but i am new to all these things lol18:57
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itsnotabigtruckisn't there a dpkg subcommand that lets you just list?18:58
itsnotabigtruckyeah, dpkg -c18:58
itsnotabigtruckand dpkg -I displays package info18:58
itsnotabigtruckso use those two on your deb to make sure it looks nice18:59
djszapimmm, dpkg -c seems useful18:59
djszapiI have not used it yet.18:59
* djszapi does not still understand why madde bothers with this etc thing 19:01
djszapimeanwhile it might be a good idea on archlinux etc, what will the harmattan average enduser benefit out of that ?19:02
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, it's intended for system daemons and things like that on normal debian systems19:03
alteregoToday feels like a Blue day, think I'm going to use my other N919:03
* alterego giggles19:03
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: yes, it makes sense on arch, debian and so on as I said, but on harmattan ? :)19:04
djszapiwhere an average does not even meet the console19:04
itsnotabigtruckwell, they didn't put that there specifically for harmattan19:04
Jeffrey041alterego: how many n9s do u have?19:04
djszapiactually it could mess up the things for end users.19:04
alterego2 personal, 1 work19:05
itsnotabigtruckalso, wtf19:05
alteregoAnd an N950, though that's for super mer hacking19:05
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itsnotabigtruckthese aren't cheap hardware19:05
itsnotabigtruckeven with the recent price cuts19:05
alteregoI only paid for one19:05
itsnotabigtruckbtw newegg cut its n9 pricing again19:05
Jeffrey041lol, they are priced ok'ish in malaysia19:05
itsnotabigtrucka couple weeks after i finally buy :(19:05
* djszapi has every color expect pink :(19:06
alteregoYeah, I've got black, blue and white too :P19:06
itsnotabigtruckJeffrey041: like how much specifically?19:06
* alterego should buy some from Malaysia then :P19:07
Jeffrey04116gb official price myr179919:07
djszapigot white from Nokia one and half a year ago19:07
djszapiblue at the qt dev days19:07
Jeffrey041djszapi: oh, you got the prototype?19:07
djszapiand black at some internal stuff19:07
djszapiI have not seen free pink devices19:07
Jeffrey041mine is a 64gb black (white is not available yet), myr208819:08
alteregoYou'd think _those_ would be the ones they'd give away. :D19:08
itsnotabigtruckJeffrey041: that comes out to just about US$600 even19:08
itsnotabigtruckbut you said that's list price, what about street price19:08
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djszapialterego: so give one to me please, or let us change :)19:08
Jeffrey041about rm100 off the rrp19:08
itsnotabigtruckalso, what is it with those damn unicorn N9s19:09
alteregoI don't have one :P19:09
alteregoI have the same selection as you19:09
itsnotabigtruckit seems that 100% of the retailers that stock them don't ship overseas19:09
alteregoAs well as two black Lumia 800s :S19:09
itsnotabigtruckonly within the EU or within scandinavia19:09
alteregoWell, I gave one away, so I've got one now actually.19:09
itsnotabigtruckJeffrey041: they're currently going for US$470 free shipping on newegg19:09
itsnotabigtruckbut that's with no sales/vat taxes19:10
Jeffrey041free shipping worldwide?19:10
itsnotabigtruckno, only in the us19:10
itsnotabigtrucki'm not sure if newegg does export sales19:10
Jeffrey041then it would cost probably just as much when they are shipped to malaysia19:10
Jeffrey041lol, my daemon doesn't run at startup hahahaha19:10
itsnotabigtruckmy point was more that myr1699 isn't a very good price19:10
Jeffrey041but it does work it seems19:11
itsnotabigtruckwell, it's not bad at all actually19:11
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Jeffrey041i mean the daemon works, just that it is not called by upstart at start up lol19:11
itsnotabigtruckbtw make sure you really need a daemon19:11
itsnotabigtrucklast thing users want is a bunch of useles daemons19:11
itsnotabigtrucke.g. doesn't that manga reader program load a daemon? that's a perfect example of something undesirable19:12
Jeffrey041i really wish nokia would do this
djszapiJeffrey041: have you waited at least couple of minutes ?19:12
djszapiis it in /etc/init/app/ ?19:12
djszapihave youtried to run the job manually ?19:12
Jeffrey041conf is in /etc/init/app19:12
djszapitry to run manually19:12
djszapiit will report the syntax failures, if any.19:13
Jeffrey041yea, ran it manually19:13
djszapihave you waited enough after the reboot ?19:13
Jeffrey041how long does it take ?19:13
djszapiit is run even later the the gui stack.19:13
itsnotabigtruckugh, 'behavior by design' is one of the most BS responses to an enhancement request there ever was19:13
Jeffrey041huh, ok19:13
itsnotabigtruckof course it's behaving by design, that's why someone filed a report about it19:13
djszapiJeffrey041: 5-10 minutes19:14
djszapiI do not know19:14
Jeffrey041didn't expect that19:14
djszapiso it works manually ?19:14
Jeffrey041it works manually19:14
djszapithen only patience that comes up to my mind, sorry.19:15
Jeffrey041yea, it works manually19:15
Jeffrey041gotta try again19:15
itsnotabigtruckoh, the daemon is for your wireless control daemon, right19:15
itsnotabigtruckand yeah, it can take about 2 mins for upstart stuff to run19:15
itsnotabigtruckmaybe you should wire your script to run earlier19:16
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: why is it a bull shit if someone wanna have a different goal for the software ?19:16
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: because it's one thing to have some logic behind it19:16
itsnotabigtruckit's another to say "your request to add a feature is invalid, because that feature hasn't been added"19:16
itsnotabigtruckit's circular logic19:16
djszapiwe also closed reports like that19:16
djszapienhancement reports so that to keep the project KISS19:17
djszapiand not getting overbloated.19:17
itsnotabigtruckyeah, because it's a classic strategy to get rid of reports instead of doing something about htenm19:17
itsnotabigtruckof course, you can't actually do every enhancement requesy19:17
itsnotabigtruckbut you also don't invalidate them under BS pretenses19:17
djszapiit was just about we had different goals19:17
djszapifor our software in comparison with 1-2 reporters expected.19:17
itsnotabigtruckand what's the goal in this case? not allowing the user to control their access? it doesn't make a lot of sense19:18
djszapiI do not think having different goal is a bull shit, is it19:18
itsnotabigtruckif it was about bloat, then say that19:18
itsnotabigtruckbut no one said bloat here19:18
djszapiI am replying to your original post19:18
djszapiandaccording to that, you cannot say universally it is a bull shit19:18
djszapi"ugh, 'behavior by design' is one of the most BS responses to an enhancement request there ever was" -> it is not universally bull shit, that is what I meant to write.19:18
djszapiin qt-components they even refused bug fixes for which I even sent patches :)19:19
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itsnotabigtrucki'm standing by my point, it's nonsensical to say an enhancement request (i.e. a request to alter the design)19:19
alteregoWhat you perceived as a bug ..19:19
itsnotabigtruckis not valid because it's not part of the design19:19
alteregoYou're notoriously pedantic.19:20
itsnotabigtruckif there's a good reason to not resolve the request, then say it19:20
djszapialterego: and also the manager19:20
djszapialterego: but he said "it is not serious bugfix enough".19:20
alteregoI thought that was flags.19:20
itsnotabigtruckif fixing the bug isn't realistic given time and money, then say it19:20
itsnotabigtruckdon't invent BS reasons to get rid of reports19:20
djszapialterego: no, they were not.19:20
itsnotabigtruckthat's 3rd rate support19:20
alteregoWhy don't you send the MRs yourself.19:20
djszapialterego: MR does not help19:21
djszapibut I belive you know it better than me19:21
djszapiMR /was/ sent, it /was/ merged19:21
djszapibut if it is not flagged for a bugfix release, what can we do ? :)19:21
alteregoOh yes, it caused a regression19:21
djszapithat is a different patch19:21
alteregoWell, one of yours did last week.19:21
djszapiand that was an enhancement.19:21
alteregoI'm losing track of your little "improvements" :P19:22
djszapiand that was even fixed and merged19:22
alteregoI know, I helped you fix it.19:22
djszapiyes I had many fixes :)19:22
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: well, couldn't it be rescheduled for the x+0.1 release?19:22
djszapibut that is what you face while developing an app anyway :)19:22
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: no they said they are not serious enough19:22
djszapiI made the selection model finally work19:23
djszapiwith C++ models.19:23
Jeffrey041ok, the daemon is working like it should lol19:23
itsnotabigtrucki thought by 'bugfix release' you mean an x+0.0.1 release19:23
Jeffrey041thanks for the help :P19:23
Jeffrey041time to sleep19:23
djszapiand it was not considered serious enough so the release might be shipped with still useless (multi)selectiondialog :)19:23
itsnotabigtrucksince qt minor releases definitely aren't just minor bugs19:23
alteregoUseless to you, no one else has complained.19:23
djszapiit is not qt19:23
djszapiit is qt-components.19:23
djszapialterego: what ?19:24
djszapimany people here starting with me ajalkane Venemo and so on19:24
djszapithere is even a separate thread and even a long blog discussion about that19:24
djszapiand they were all like facepalm19:24
djszapiit is not gonna get fixed19:24
alteregodjszapi: you have to remember, that you're asking the wrong people. Harmattan PR releases is one thing, if your patches were of good quality and didn't cause regressions you'd get them into qt-components no problme.19:24
djszapithere was no regression19:24
alteregoYou're complaining about getting your patches into PR releases of Harmattan, which is a _whole_ other ball game.19:24
alteregoSomething you should no.19:25
infobotwell, know is Any fool can know, the point is to understand. - Albert Einstein19:25
alterego^ ++19:25
djszapiwhat ?19:25
djszapiit got merged, had no regressions19:25
djszapitested by other folks here, asked the manager19:25
djszapihe rejected19:25
djszapicommunity had a facepalm19:25
alteregoThat's how it is.19:25
djszapithis is plain embarassing19:26
alteregoIt's business as usual.19:26
djszapiand it is not even about a new feature, but make a component work with C++ models, like stringlist :)19:26
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alteregoNot getting involved in your trolling any more ..19:27
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alteregoWell, I just need to glitz up my user interface and I'll submit my IP camera operator UI to Ovi :)19:32
alteregoThough think I'll test it with some cheap Chinese models that are supposed to be compatible with the Foscam ..19:32
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: can you show that bugreport ?19:32
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DrGrovHi everyone19:39
DrGrovIs lpsmagic 1.3 available in the Nokia Store for the N9? Or I get it from TMO?19:39
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itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: no, but you can turn on devmode and install the deb19:48
itsnotabigtruckin fact, i'm not sure you even need devmode, just download and run the deb19:48
itsnotabigtruckyou just need to have unsigned installation turned on first19:48
itsnotabigtruck(settings > applications > installations)19:49
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Ok, I will update it later on tonight.19:51
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: You got a link to the thread of lpsmagic?19:52
itsnotabigtruckyeesh :p
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Good19:54
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DrGrovI will pick it up later19:54
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Can you post instructions on how to install it to cryptch?19:55
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: I remeber some parts but not every part19:55
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: my instructions were unneededly complicated19:56
itsnotabigtruckif you can't install it from the gui (browser downloads box or a file manager)19:56
itsnotabigtruckthen just use: pkgmgr install-file -f path/to/deb.deb19:57
itsnotabigtruckthat will autoinstall the deps and stuff19:57
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DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: Great, I will use pkgmgr install-file -f /path/to/deb.deb then19:59
itsnotabigtruck<as root> apt-get update; apt-get install wget; wget http://blah/blah.deb; pkgmgr install-file -f blah.deb19:59
DrGrovAh yes19:59
DrGrovThose I do remember19:59
itsnotabigtruckthere's complete instructions including the download part19:59
DrGrovdevel-su for root, rootme normal password?20:00
DrGrovI got luckily wget already fixed :)20:00
DrGrovSince I got 1.1 of lpsmagic earlier20:00
djszapiFinally there's a killer app for Symbian, but it's quite a bit too late... :)20:00
DrGrovI wonder, does it matter if I do devel-su and then wget? I just get the .deb in root then. Should not be a problem?20:00
DrGrovAh, boobies :)20:01
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djszapishould not.20:02
DrGrovGood, I just gotta remember to delete the .deb from root20:03
DrGrovAnyone using any Nokia Bluetooth handsfree on the N9/N950?20:03
DrGrovAre they working as they should? Volume buttons working properly, answering call with button on the BT?20:04
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ieatlintDrGrov: yep20:20
ieatlinthowever for stereo audio playback i get issues20:21
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npmsome bluetooth issues have been improved for PR1.220:24
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djszapianybody having an ssh config setup for the qt-project beyond an insane corporate proxy ?20:24
djszapi -> trying to get it work hard, but does not work out :/20:25
djszapiI wanted to avoid corkscrew so far.20:25
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ZogG_laptopfrals: ping21:00
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bluesleefrals: hello, can you post an image where more than 2 colors are used and the screen is not flickering? for me simple cases dont work21:07
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DrGrovadmiral0: Hi there. Lpsmagic guy :)21:22
DrGrovadmiral0: Did you mean that to install version 1.3 of lpsmagic it has to be done the same way as 1.1? But not need to uninstall before, just overwrite install the 1.3 .deb ?21:22
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fralsZogG_laptop: pong21:30
fralsblueslee: dont see any flicker here at least21:30
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ZogG_laptopfrals: can i bother you little bit more about same thing?21:31
fralsZogG_laptop: sure, i cant promise i can do anything thou21:31
ZogG_laptopmay i pm?21:31
fralsgo ahead, no need to ask21:31
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: I hope 1.3 is installed properly21:32
DrGrovitsnotabigtruck: InstallFile /root/ls-magic_1.3_armel.deb 100%21:32
DrGrov/root/ls-magic_1.3_armel.deb installed successfully!21:33
DrGrovI used "pkgmgr install-file -f ls-magic_1.3_armel.deb"21:34
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admiral0DrGrov: yes21:35
admiral0lpsmagic is safe to upgrade21:35
bluesleefrals: thank you, your image is working ... can you check this one for me
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fralsblueslee: do you have a version thats not compressed like hell?21:36
DrGrovadmiral0: Ok, good. It says installed successfully so.21:36
DrGrovadmiral0: Do I notice any differencies between 1.1 and 1.3 upon startup?21:36
bluesleefrals: hehe, you think that may be a problem?21:37
admiral01.3 fixes 1 issue21:37
fralsblueslee: yes, you are using all kinds of crazy colors in that image ;)21:37
bluesleeone moment, i will generate one21:37
fralsblueslee: ill create one that looks like that myself and see21:37
admiral0flash space detection is no more fatal21:38
bluesleefrals: i thought magenta and cyan would be okay, 00ff00, ff0000 and so on21:38
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bluesleefrals: my aim is to display a chess board
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vsyncwonder if it'll ever be possible to change background for the applications-view21:43
fralsfor the appgrid? it already is21:44
fralsblueslee: works fine for me21:45
fralsblueslee: do notice the difference that mine is not compressed and is PNG-8 (with only 4 colors in the palette)21:45
itsnotabigtruckadmiral0: you did fix the dependencies in 1.3 right?21:50
itsnotabigtruckbecause if you didn't, my pkgmgr command would have autoremoved the dependencies21:51
admiral0i think i did21:53
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: it's ok21:54
admiral0i'm thinking of a way to test on the device21:55
admiral0i hate the fact i can't test on the desktop :\21:55
ZogG_laptophey, anyone with scratchbox here? can you run locate -i xauth ?22:06
admiral0ZogG_laptop: package xauth, /usr/bin/xauth22:10
fralshes looking for something like account-plugin-xauth22:11
ZogG_laptopadmiral0: searching for headers22:11
admiral0dpkg-query -S /usr/include/X11/Xauth.h22:15
admiral0libxau-dev: /usr/include/X11/Xauth.h22:15
ZogG_laptopnot that =)22:15
ZogG_laptopthe one part of signon plugin22:15
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npm"harmattan" was the answer to -- apparently this year's was very large over west africa22:49
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Arkenoiis there any trick to get "Extraplugins accounts UI" working on n950? I get "waiting" and then "download error"22:51
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* npm blindly runs new /opt/QtSDK/InstrumentationDashboard/bin/instrumentation_dashboard that came w/ qtsdk update23:22
npmpoked in eye w/ /opt/QtSDK/InstrumentationDashboard/bin/instrumentation_dashboard: /usr/lib64/ version `GLIBCXX_3.4.14' not found (required by /opt/QtSDK/InstrumentationDashboard/bin/../lib/
npmwell it runs on meego 1.2 so i'll just blame it on ancience of desktop23:27
npmand it's pretty useful with a nice set of utilities...23:31
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* npm notes "Following packages need to be installed on device, otherwise the tool name in Instrumentation Dashboard "Tools" menu will be greyed out."23:36
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npmQUESTION: how come i get "WARNING: The following packages cannot be authenticated! latrace swaplogger23:38
npmbut strace installs w/o complaint23:38
npmand so did latrace but ....23:41
npmAegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/swaplogger_0.13+0m6_armel.deb: package 'swaplogger' origin cannot be determined  -- signature check failed23:41
itsnotabigtrucknpm: the former two are probably from the harmattan-dev repo, i bet23:41
itsnotabigtruckbut that's strange, hrm23:42
itsnotabigtruckmy understanding is that aegis can use either embedded package signatures or the normal apt signing system23:42
itsnotabigtruckin the latter case, it matters how you install the package23:42
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npmso how do i get signatures for latrace and swaplogger23:44
npmand why does one succeed and one fail despite the same lack of sig?23:44
npmmysteries of PR1.223:45
npmwell that's entertaining you can run your app and strace it from another screen w/ nice graphical summaries23:49
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