IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2012-02-04

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bluesleei modified a system file (for operator logo...) and now the n9 is in a reboot cycle, can i fix this? how to mount the rootfs?00:52
Free-MGload the rescue image00:52
bluesleedo you have a link?00:52
bluesleeFree-MG: got it00:53
Free-MGhave you a 16gb or 64GB?00:53
Free-MGthen it works00:55
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Mekhmm, this code does some ugly stuff with a MWindow/MScene/MSceneWindow and then stuffing a manually created declarative item in there... I wonder if that breaks things for qml...00:56
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Mekah yes, not using a QDeclarativeScene (without setting the correct properties manually on the scene) messes up focus handling01:10
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bluesleecan someone share the original pr 1.2 file of an n9 /media/rootfs//usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css01:12
mgedminwhaddayamean "original pr 1.2"?01:16
mgedmindid pr 1.2 come out for the n9 while I wasn't looking?01:16
bluesleesorry pr 1.101:16
mgedminwell, I haven't mucked with that file, so ...01:17
* mgedmin ssh's01:17
mgedmincat: can't open '/media/rootfs//usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css': No such file or directory01:17
mgedminssh mg-n9 cat /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css|pastebinit -> ...01:18
mgedminConnection to timed out while waiting to read01:18
bluesleedamn, the files does not seem to be the problem, but its the only one i modified01:21
bluesleedevice is mailfunctioning01:21
bluesleeis there a central log file where i can see whats wrong?01:25
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Free-MGperhaps/ var/log/syslog01:27
bluesleeFree-MG: i am looking at this file01:27
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bluesleethere are too many reboots, i guess the device is blocking reboots01:42
Free-MGflash the kernel only01:45
Free-MGan attempt is it worth01:46
bluesleedo you know how the kernel is called? i have complete rootfs and emmc images01:47
bluesleeand different bin files01:47
bluesleethe bin files are to small to be kernel images01:48
Free-MGsudo flasher -F firmware.bin --flash-only=kernel -f -R01:48
mgedminhow would that help anything?01:48
bluesleecan i use vmlinuz- from the rescue image?01:49
bluesleeahh okay --flash-only kernel01:50
Free-MGmgedmin: a attempt01:50
bluesleedid not work same issue01:52
bluesleei guess i have to flash everything01:52
bluesleeis there a kind of flag which prevents the device from booting in my case?01:53
bluesleemaybe the battery is empty or i have to wait for 12 hours, time to go to bed:-)01:59
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DocScrutinizerblueslee, Free-MG: there's no use in restoring "original file" - aegis hashes across full file content *plus inode*, so odds are you never get back the same inode on "restoring original file"02:03
infobotmay-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && exit; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }02:03
mgedminI doubt any css files are hashed?02:03
DocScrutinizerwhats da file?02:04
mgedmin/usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css apparently02:05
DocScrutinizer~ $ mayIedit /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia/style/libsysuid-screenlock-nokia.css02:07
DocScrutinizeredit if you feel venturous02:07
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: hmm? aegis hashes content only02:08
itsnotabigtruckbut the hash list entry contains the inode02:08
itsnotabigtruckbut it updates the inode every reboot02:08
itsnotabigtruckso restore the original file content and reboot02:09
itsnotabigtruckthe UID, GID, and permissions have to match too02:09
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DocScrutinizerinfobot: no, may-I-edit is <reply> mayIedit () { grep "`basename $1`" /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && return; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }02:13
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer02:13
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DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: *who* is going to update the inode in refhashlist on boot?02:15
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itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: well, to be exact02:18
itsnotabigtruck..  /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist contains paths02:18
itsnotabigtruck..  /sys/kernel/security/validator/hashlist contains inodes02:18
itsnotabigtruckon boot, the paths are converted to inode numbers and loaded into k-space02:18
itsnotabigtruckso no one has to update the inodes in refhashlist because there aren't any02:19
DocScrutinizerand the hash is not across inode*, inode, file-content?02:19
itsnotabigtruckfor example, i deleted /usr/bin/ping accidentally the other day but had a copy, so i copied it back but it wouldn't run02:19
itsnotabigtruckso i just had to reboot, which loaded the same hash into the kernel but with the new inode number02:20
itsnotabigtrucknope, content only02:20
itsnotabigtruckbut it does in addition to the hash validate uid/gid/mode02:20
DocScrutinizerhmm, so how e.g permissions get checked then?02:21
itsnotabigtrucknot through the hash, they're just specified in the line02:21
DocScrutinizermhm, so the line itself gets hashed then?02:22
DocScrutinizeraah wait, the refhashlist is protected02:22
itsnotabigtruckwell, refhashlist is part of the chain of trust and is signed02:22
itsnotabigtruckthe hashes are to protect the file content, not to protect the line02:22
DocScrutinizerthanks for correcting my flawed idea of that02:23
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ZogG_laptopmgedmin: sup02:32
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DocScrutinizerhey, short poll: what do you prefer? a aegis infested HARM system where aegis still gets in your way every second shell cmdline you type in, while some clever hack removed/neutered the only actual thing aegis can deliver: disabling installation of packages from random possibly rogue source. Or a openmode harm system where aegis doesn't basically run anymore, and you have to "pay" for that by looking at a "scary warranty screen" during03:43
DocScrutinizerboot, and by taking responsibility for your system by yourself just like you have to do on arbitrary *real* linux?03:43
DocScrutinizerwhile with responsibility comes sufficient power to actually take care about your interests on your own03:45
DocScrutinizeradditional info: Nokia probably will frown at #1, at very least. While they evidently supported #2 actively03:46
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TronicI don't want any extra nags either.04:09
TronicSo, option #3: no aegis, no nags, everything works (and I can install malware on my device).04:10
Sazpaimon>implying aegis can stop malware04:11
TronicWhile at that, I want to be able to overclock like on N900.04:11
Tronic(well, preferably with a GUI)04:11
SpeedEvilAegis can stop malware - if properly implemented, with sane and skilled reviewers.04:12
Sazpaimonso say I really wanted an N950 (i don't)04:19
Sazpaimonif money wasn't an object, how much would I expect to pay04:19
Sazpaimonive heard people paying upwards to $1000 for one04:20
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TronicSazpaimon: Developers have to pay Nokia 500 EUR if they lose the device. Use that as a starting point...04:21
SpeedEvilThe hardware is nice.04:21
SpeedEvilThe software has issues04:21
TronicThe software is quite fine, too.04:22
SpeedEvilFrom a user POV, arguably.04:23
TronicYes, it has a security system, and some bugs, but still it is so much better than anything else you can get for a phone.04:23
Tronic(including Fremantle)04:23
SazpaimonTronic, thats if they tell nokia04:23
Sazpaimonor will nokia replace a "lost" n950 if they pay the fee04:24
TronicSazpaimon: Well, I would suspect Nokia finding out if the devices were openly auctioned or something. Plus there are very few devices and the developers *really* like them.04:24
Sazpaimoni also assume if they reported the device lost the IMEI would be blacklisted04:24
TronicAnd there are no replacements.04:25
TronicI have a lot of dead pixels on mine but apparently it cannot be replaced.04:25
Sazpaimonyeah i heard dead pixels run rampant on N950s04:26
Sazpaimonone of the few reasons I dont want one04:26
Sazpaimonthat and nokia completely ignored my application to the developer launchpad when they first announced it04:26
SpeedEvilThey're spraying Lumia 800s around like they come out of a firehose.04:27
Sazpaimonits the stockpile of the ones that people arent buying04:28
Sazpaimonthinking of re-applying or asking nokia wtf is up with my application just to get a lumia 800 for parts04:28
Sazpaimoni applied like 6 months ago and never got a response04:29
TronicSpeedEvil: Yep, the aftermarket was flooded with those long before the device was even on sale in Finland.04:30
Sazpaimonthey might have given me one, but i was laid off from the company I used back in late october04:30
Sazpaimonso i have no access to that email04:30
TronicI got one to try it out. Turned out to be total crap (unless you love iPhones, maybe), so I sold it.04:31
Sazpaimonwe were doing legitimate video development for a video on demand service anyway04:31
Sazpaimon*legitimate mobile development04:31
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TronicSazpaimon: Lesson of the day: never use your company/university email for anything personal.04:32
Sazpaimonit wasnt personal04:33
Sazpaimonit was a legitimate request on behalf of the company i worked for04:33
Sazpaimonbut i lost interest when, after a week or two, their stock of N950s were exhausted04:34
TronicOk. I started avoiding the use of such emails for anything that I might care about personally after some bad experiences with emails getting closed or redirected without any prior warning.04:42
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itsnotabigtruckanyone know if calenderr has been updated such that it doesn't spawn loads of processes?09:01
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itsnotabigtrucklooks like that's a no :(09:03
itsnotabigtrucki'm inclined to try reimplementing it on timed or whatever the 'right' way for scheduling tasks is09:06
itsnotabigtruckon a semi-related note, what's the difference between realxid and setxid mode in aegis09:07
itsnotabigtrucki believe one of the two causes a process's uid/gid to be set by aegis, but the description in the docs is self-contradictory i think09:08
itsnotabigtruckthough if the effective uid is always set by aegis, then asserting UID::root should grant all access to unprotected files in any case09:10
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qronic~seen SimonLR09:40
infobotsimonlr <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 634d 13h 27m 24s ago, saying: 'I wrestled a bear once'.09:40
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bluesleeDocScrutinizer: ping10:21
bluesleeif i use the rescue image, use dd for all 3 partitions, can i use those to restore my n9 completely? this should be the case or not?10:26
bluesleeare the servers behinf ovi store down?10:53
bluesleeworks now10:55
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RzRif you'rre at fosdem just screem12:13
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* dm8tbr waves from FOSDEM12:21
* dm8tbr YELLS AT RZR12:21
RzRdm8tbr: are u in front of mr sstkeeps ?12:22
dm8tbrnope, sitting in the keynote12:22
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gri~seen spenap12:24
infobotspenap <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 51d 23h 48m 45s ago, saying: 'is there any link to the latest one-click flasher for the N950? I could find only the beta 1, the link to beta 2 was no longer valid'.12:24
RzRlbt_away: hurry up12:24
RzRlbt_away: whole fosdem is cheering12:25
bluesleeis there a live stream from fosdem?12:29
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Free-MGblueslee: N9 booting?12:37
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bluesleeFree-MG: yes, unfortunately i had to reflash evertyhing, mmc included ... with the help of the rescue image i should be able to dd all thre partitions for a backup/restore, right?12:40
bluesleeFree-MG: many thanks for your help by the way12:40
bluesleethp: i had to restore my backup yesterday, the gpodder client is completly converted into a commercial package now?12:42
Free-MGblueslee: i make a backup with tar......I'm not sure what you mean, my english is not so good12:45
bluesleeFree-MG: with dd you can backup/restore complete partitions...12:46
Free-MGblueslee: ok, is it better for me with tar12:49
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bluesleeFree-MG: normally i would say its safer with dd, you dont need to handle  permission rights etc13:02
Free-MGblueslee: ok, what command you are using for e.g. rootfs with dd13:07
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bluesleeFree-MG: depends on the device, "dd if=/dev/sdxy of=rootfs.img"13:17
bluesleeFree-MG: i think using tar with "-p" option is also okay13:17
Free-MGblueslee: i use cvfp, dd needs more space than tar as I understand it , but I like to try it once13:22
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bluesleeFree-MG: thats true, but you can zip your dd image13:25
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Free-MGbluesless: yes, that's true again :)13:27
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djszapirZr 'sup13:33
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djszapiErr....anybody helping with exporting my odp presentation to pdf ? :)13:34
djszapiLibreoffice kills the OS here :D13:34
rZrdjszapi: hi i am in front of matrx presenting qml13:35
rZrdjszapi: sstkeeps reported u had issue at the airport ?13:41
djszapinot the airport, but in Helsinki. :)13:41
djszapiAlso, I lost my stuff last night at the bar :/13:42
rZrso will u able to present aktive?13:42
admiral0hello people13:44
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ZogG_laptopdivan: sup13:53
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djszapiaheinecke: what do you advise, kmail ?16:18
petteriseems like i cannot ssh from N9 to my laptop sometimes, googled a bit and it could be somekind of wlan powersave thing. If I first ping from my laptop and then try the ssh from N9 it works. Any way to "wake up" the connection from n9 side?16:25
admiral0happens the same for me, but the opposite16:30
admiral0cannot ssh to n9 via wlan16:30
rZrdjszapi: hi again16:30
mgedminping mg-n9.lan drops the first 10-20 packets, then it works16:30
mgedminand then I can ssh mg-n916:31
mgedminseems to be a problem with ARP16:31
admiral0just powersave is aggressive16:31
mgedminperhaps packets to the n9's MAC address wake it up at once, but broadcast packets wake it up only once every N seconds16:31
* rZr is listening to rasterman16:31
mgedmin(why I say ARP: I can ssh my router and ping the n9 and it replies at once, while ping that is running at the same time on my laptop still drops the first 10 packets)16:32
petterihmm.. so my super rsync app cannot work if don't first ping from the laptop my n9 :P16:37
dm8tbradd a static ARP entry :)16:38
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mgedminI don't think you need to ping16:38
mgedminyou just need to keep retrying16:38
mgedminhm, is there an app that would try pinging X for up to N seconds and quit on the first successful reply?16:39
mgedminping is... bad at timeouts, iirc16:39
mgedminit has the -w option but I think I had trouble with it in the past16:40
mgedminah, I wanted to time-out after 1 second, but that didn't apply to DNS timeouts, which took up to 30 seconds16:40
mgedminso not related to this use case16:40
faenilis there any mirror for Qt SDK 1.2 Linux 64bit? Nokia's servers are SOOOOO SLOW! atm16:40
mgedminpetter: have your rsync app run 'ping -c 1 -w 30 a.d.d.r' before you try to connect, maybe16:40
* mgedmin has a pygtk app for uploading e-books to the nicely structured obsessive-compulsive e-book directory structure; it works via sshfs16:41
petterimgedmin: i could always try that16:41
* mgedmin considers adding this hack to it with maybe a nice progress bar16:41
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mgedminbecause so far it either works on 1st attempt, or I have to retry a couple of times, or I have to wait like 30 seconds before retrying, which means I get bored and start pinging in a new xterm16:42
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Venemo_N950why doesn't my N950 find the PR 1.2 update?16:57
Venemo_N950it says "device is up to date"16:58
mgedminthere's no OTA upgrades for PR 1.216:59
mgedminyou need to download the one click flasher16:59
mgedminnokia developers blog gave some rationale for that16:59
mgedminsince you CAN'T DOWGRADE (yeah, wtf), you must make a conscious decision to upgrade17:00
Venemo_N950the flasher link from the wiki gives me a 40417:00
mgedminsince you're supposed to test your apps with PR 1.0 and 1.1 before uploading them to the ovi store17:00
Venemo_N950that's understandable17:00
mgedmindownload link:
mgedminit gives you 1.2, but doesn't tell you it's BETA17:02
mgedminalso "Note: You cannot return from a Chinese variant to the corresponding Global variant! So unless you are developing for the applications for the Chinese markets, do not install the Chinese variant on your device."17:02
djszapiVenemo_N950: hi :)17:03
mgedminoh hey, my n950 still has pr 1.0, because the 1.1 ota upgrade failed17:05
mgedminwhich is actually good17:05
mgedmin(if I wanted to test the app before uploading to ovi store)17:05
mgedmin(but first I'd have to find the round tuits to finish the damn app!)17:05
Venemo_N950hey djszapi17:05
Venemo_N950mgedmin, thx for the links :)17:06
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DocScrutinizeror simply17:17
infoboti heard update is
DocScrutinizersee /topic17:17
virtualdwhat happens if you try to flash it on an n9?17:18
DocScrutinizerwon't work I guess, certs not matching17:19
DocScrutinizershould refuse to start flashing17:19
DocScrutinizer>>Naturally you can buy a stock of Nokia N9’s for your testing needs. But if that is not working for you then you can rely on the Remote Device Access (RDA) service as well as the SDK QEMU tool.<< BWAHAHA!17:25
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DocScrutinizerplease Nokia explain to us the rationale for "downgrade not possible" and if this rationale is worth it to deliberately break proper development usecases. -- Alas I'm afraid the product damagers to blame for this insane no-dwongrade and generally the "security" crap policy won't learn from this, not a single bit17:30
infobotit has been said that update is
* DocScrutinizer smiles at admiral017:31
DocScrutinizeradmiral0: right on, right on! :-)17:31
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mgedminforbidding downgrades is probably about not letting people jailbreak their n9 if a bug is found in an older aegis implementation or something17:32
* admiral0 was just curious who would answer and what17:32
mgedmini.e. pure evil17:32
admiral0we are more evil17:32
DocScrutinizeradmiral0: duh, and I thought you appreciated the stuff I provide there17:32
admiral0i personally won't report any aegis bug17:32
admiral0DocScrutinizer: heh?17:33
DocScrutinizeradmiral0: eh?17:33
DocScrutinizer~factinfo aegis-no-thanks17:34
infobotaegis-no-thanks -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Fri Dec  9 22:52:11 2011 (56 days); last modified at Sat Dec 10 15:10:11 2011 by DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 17 times, last by admiral0, 3m 41s ago.17:34
admiral0~factinfo update17:34
infobotupdate -- last modified at Fri Apr 27 17:35:47 2007 by Kirkburn|afk!; it has been requested 13 times, last by DocScrutinizer at Wed Jan 25 11:11:14 2012.17:34
DocScrutinizer~factinfo #harmattan update17:35
infobot#harmattan update -- created by DocScrutinizer <~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg> at Wed Jan 25 18:09:27 2012 (9 days); it has been requested 7 times, last by admiral0, 4m 4s ago.17:35
the-boss`infobot: Error: "harmattan" is not a valid command.17:35
infobotthe-boss`: okay17:35
the-boss`infobot: Error: "okay" is not a valid command.17:35
infobotthe-boss`: i already had it that way17:35
the-boss`infobot: Error: "i" is not a valid command.17:35
infobotthe-boss`: i already had it that way17:35
the-boss`infobot: Error: "i" is not a valid command.17:35
admiral0anyway i think ~update should be renamed to ~pr1.217:36
DocScrutinizerhmm, I think the-boss` is *very* close to a /kickban17:36
DocScrutinizeradmiral0: why?17:36
admiral0it would be more self explanatory if someone actually reads topic before asking17:37
infoboti guess pr1.2 is available since early Tuesday morning. More information at -- see ~flashing for how to update17:37
admiral0it's about fremantle :P17:38
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DocScrutinizer~factinfo pr1.217:38
infobotpr1.2 -- created by crashanddie_ <~crashandd@Maemo/community/contributor/crashanddie> at Tue May 25 11:16:20 2010 (620 days); it has been requested 21 times, last by DocScrutinizer, 1m 5s ago.17:38
DocScrutinizer~#harmattan pr1.2 is <reply>see #harmattan update17:39
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer17:39
infobotfrom memory, #harmattan update is
admiral0you rox17:40
admiral0btw, do you still own the freerunner?17:41
DocScrutinizererr, own as in "I'm the key responsible for the hw"? not really. If you however mean if I already binned my ~12 devices - no I didn't yet17:42
rZrcz l17:44
admiral0lol 1217:51
admiral0i have mine on a shelf.17:51
rZr..   ERR17:51
admiral0it's a collection item :P17:51
rZri put my devive in my pocket w/out locking it17:52
rZrlater ...17:52
djszapirZr: what is your t-shirt size ?18:02
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rZrdjszapi: hi xl is ok19:09
rZrdjszapi: why a such question? is it summer already ?19:09
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itsnotabigtruckrzr: any reason you sometimes switch between rZr and RzR? :p19:13
rZrZ = away19:13
itsnotabigtruckalso, i really need to switch from firefox to chrome, chrome has a half-decent adblocker now and firefox constantly locks up19:14
itsnotabigtruckprobably because of ab+19:14
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itsnotabigtruckrzr: have you used 'timed' before19:17
itsnotabigtruck(process scheduler)19:17
itsnotabigtruckif so, any idea what aegis credentials are needed to schedule something19:18
itsnotabigtruckthis documentation is pretty outdated and opaque19:18
IktwoHi, I'm having trouble with a dbus call, I was wondering if there's something or someway to list all interfaces and methods, if I call a method on terminal it works and if I do it in my app it doesn't any advice?19:21
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Iktwois it ok if I use system("dbus-send ..") to call it?19:30
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djszapirZr: I can give you a t-shirt19:41
djszapibut it is xxl19:41
djszapiwhere are you ?19:41
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rZrdjszapi: at the main entrace19:43
rZrdjszapi: waiting for a friend19:44
rZrdjszapi: xxl could make the job , the drier will shrimk it19:44
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rZrdjszapi: will be here tomorow19:45
rZrdjszapi: where r u ?19:46
Venemowhat T-Shirt are you talkin about?19:46
rZrthe teeshirt that block the cold19:47
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djszapirZr: can we meet smewhere ?19:47
djszapiyes,I will be here tomorrow, you too ?19:47
rZrdjszapi: tell me19:47
djszapiVenemo: we are at FOSDEM19:47
djszapirZr: I am now in the K building19:48
rZrdjszapi: tomorow i am free all day19:48
djszapiat the KDE stand.19:48
Venemodjszapi, ok, I thought so, but what what T-shirt is it? :P19:48
rZrdjszapi: ok fosdem is about to close soon19:48
rZrthere is a party @ hackspace.be19:48
rZrgoing there ?19:49
rZrelse i rest in st gillis19:49
gabriel9hear me hear me19:53
gabriel9i finsihed uber piano app :D19:53
gabriel9just to get my creadit card and it will be able on ovi19:54
gabriel9if someone wish to try call me19:54
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DocScrutinizer32602 ?        Rsl    5:29 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --start --log-target=syslog   PFFFFF DIE!!!!11!!!  if somebody runs into poettering at FOSDEM, could you maybe spank him20:03
DocScrutinizerand don't forget to take and post a video of it, when you do so20:04
gabriel9i notice this, when i click on one button and it play sound while my finger is still on the button i can't click and play some other tone20:05
gabriel9DocScrutinizer: why violence? :)20:05
VenemoDocScrutinizer, lol20:05
DocScrutinizerwell, friggin phonon(?) in FF10 started that PA shit on my box that othjerwise is usually free of poettering apps, result: 100% system on one of my cores20:06
DocScrutinizerhad to kill 32602 to get back my cores20:07
infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''20:08
DocScrutinizerhere FF10 via PA was poettering my CPU20:08
rZrdjszapi: ill catch u tomorow20:09
DocScrutinizerPA always starts to act poettering in no time on all my boxen20:10
DocScrutinizerthat's why U shall spank Poettering for forcefeeding poettering software down the throat of linux community20:10
ZogG_laptopVenemo: sup20:10
gabriel9hm i don't get it. Well if they break your comp you shuold kill them :)20:11
gabriel9see ya20:11
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PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: Could you contact the PA list with the debug information?20:18
DocScrutinizerno way20:18
PaulePanterIn my experience they are quite helpful and most of the time the fault lies at the audio drivers.20:18
DocScrutinizerI don't deal with PA, except killing and/or de-installing it20:18
PaulePanterCould you send it to me privately? So I can forward it and you do not “waste” a lot of time?20:19
DocScrutinizerALSA setup worked like a charm on my devices, after I finally tweaked it to my needs. Then came mandatory PA and audio was worse than ever before20:19
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PaulePanterI am no professional but PA demands sometimes different things from the audio hardware.20:20
PaulePanterWhich you normally cannot configure.20:21
DocScrutinizerI had a box with 2 audiocards. I used the one of them for general system notifications and ringtone, while the other one got used exclusively for for SIP headset (minus the ringtone of course). Worked like a charm on ALSA, no way to ever get that working under PA20:24
PaulePanterI heard in recent versions this should work like a charm.20:25
PaulePanterAnyway, next time you experience high CPU load issues it would be great if you could follow <>.20:26
DocScrutinizeractually all the "improvements" attributed to PA over ALSA are a lie, and it never got even on par to what I can do with ALSA, yet all the distros got forced to use it by default now and more often than not you can't even deselect it on installation as the ALSA config got messed up to meet PA's needs and doesn't work without it anymore, without *heavy* tweaks to it20:26
PaulePanterJust ping me and I will see what I can do to get this fixed upstream.20:27
DocScrutinizerI'm *not going* to "debug PA issues"20:27
Venemowhy is it that PA just works for me?20:27
DocScrutinizerI'm just doing an occasional "killall PA" and /spank lennart20:28
VenemoI've never had any problems with PA20:28
PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: I understand your problem. If you know ALSA you can do everything you want to. But most users (myself included) do not know ALSA that well and PA seems to help most of them.20:28
DocScrutinizeryou probably never did *anything* more evolved with your audio anyway, Venemo20:28
DocScrutinizerPaulePanter: yeah, see Venemo20:29
VenemoI played music with my audio20:29
Venemowhat else?20:29
PaulePanterPA is for “normal” users. And you are right that there should be an easy way to disable PA.20:29
DocScrutinizerOMG!!!! he played MUSIC with his audio20:29
PaulePanter… for users not wanting to use it.20:29
PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: If you change your mind, just ping me.20:30
PaulePanterBut it would be sad, if there would be something less to complain about. ;-)20:30
DocScrutinizersure thing, thanks. Won't happen though20:30
PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: One last thing. Could you tell me the distribution and PA version though?20:31
DocScrutinizerMr Poettering more than once has exlained he gives no flying F... about Linux' general UNIX compatibility, and not even about backward compatibility of his "solutions" to problems he doesn't relally understand and sometimes just made up20:32
VenemoI will not engage in an argument about which I'm not qualified.20:33
DocScrutinizerPaulePanter: the distro is so jeavily admisnistrated that it barely is comaparable to anything you could download anywhere. And I got nfc how to get evrsion string of PA20:33
PaulePanter`pulseaudio --version`20:34
PaulePanterOr using your package management system.20:34
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:/usr/share/alsa/pcm> pulseaudio --version20:35
DocScrutinizerpulseaudio 0.9.2120:35
PaulePanterGreat. Thank you!20:35
DocScrutinizercwd is a funny coincidence :-D20:35
DocScrutinizerjust happend that I actively support an alternative (based on a concept I developed) to PA on some mobile distro20:36
PaulePanterJust as a note, this version is pretty old. It was tagged Mon Nov 23 05:18:15 2009 +0100.20:37
VenemoDocScrutinizer, why don't you just uninstall PA from your computer and be done with it?20:37
PaulePanterVersion 1.1 is already released.20:37
DocScrutinizersure, do you think I *UPDATE* PA?? ;-P20:37
PaulePanterI hope so, if you complain about it. ;-)20:38
DocScrutinizerI'm embarrassed it's still startable on this box at all ;-)20:38
PaulePanterOtherwise you would forbid software to make progress.20:38
PaulePanter… and to fix things you complain about.20:38
PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: What alternative are you talking about? I just heard of Roaraudio.20:39
PaulePanterOr something like that.20:39
Venemobrb, ttyl20:39
DocScrutinizeronly thing I complained about are a) that it got installed at all, and b) that friggin FF10 staerted it20:39
PaulePanterWell, that is technically not PA’s fault but your distributions. :P20:40
DocScrutinizerPA's only immutable fault is its mere existance20:40
PaulePanterImmutable indeed. :/20:40
DocScrutinizerand of course the fact redhat/lennart forcefeeded it into each and every distro20:41
PaulePanterProbably I am beating a dead dog, but Lennart is not involved anymore with PA and currently Colin, Arun and others are acitvely developing it.20:41
DocScrutinizeresp at a time where it evidently was inferior to what we already had for audio at that time20:42
PaulePanterand responding to wishes and so on.20:42
Venemo'yum remove pulseaudio'20:42
Venemoand be done with it20:42
PaulePanterI am not sure, but nowadays it is pretty mature and well suited for mobile devices if I remember correctly.20:42
DocScrutinizerwish: pretty ÜLEASE finally fix your friggin alsa comatibility plugin, so it supports FUL alsa API in a semi decent way20:43
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PaulePanterIf I remember it devices even consume less power with it.20:43
DocScrutinizersure, PA alsmost works nowadays - for apps that use it natively20:44
PaulePanterHave you tried the latest plugin?20:44
DocScrutinizernot so for apps that still use proper ALSA snd_pcm_XXX() calls20:44
DocScrutinizerquite in line with Lennart's notion about backward compatibilty20:45
PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: Can I quote your latest concerns on the PA list?20:46
DocScrutinizeryou can quote whatever you like, as long as you remove my name from the quote - I don't like to get pinged with further requests to help debug PA20:47
PaulePanterUnderstood. ;-) Thanks.20:47
PaulePanterIs your PA alternative public anywhere?20:47
PaulePanterToo bad.20:49
DocScrutinizerI'm not interested in saving a world of PA fanboys20:50
DocScrutinizernot anymore, after all the flames "WTF finally get native PA support into your app, ALSA doesn't work anymore!"20:50
PaulePanterI hate PA. Will you save me.20:50
DocScrutinizereventually you'll see the results in SHR20:51
DocScrutinizeror not, I'm not implementing it20:51
DocScrutinizerI just "mentor"20:51
PaulePanterNice. I just heard SHR in OpenEmbedded from Martin Jansa.20:51
DocScrutinizermaybe he mentioned ACI20:52
DocScrutinizerJaMa should know a bit about it anyway20:52
DocScrutinizerbasically it's an ultralean plugin extension to ALSA, allowing flexible audio routing by fully exploiting what ALSA already can do20:56
DocScrutinizerthe rest is just concept on how to set up ALSA "correctly"20:56
PaulePanterI found20:57
DocScrutinizere.g ALSA can do per-app volume since ... ever20:57
DocScrutinizercalled plugin siftvol20:57
DocScrutinizersoftvol even20:58
DocScrutinizerPaulePanter: acihooklib is the POC fopr that "ultralean ALSA plugin" I mentioned above21:02
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PaulePanterDocScrutinizer: Finished reading the log it is sad that Jaroslav did not discuss that reasonably.21:03
PaulePanterI wish you the the best success with ACI and not knowing that much about such things I hope the best solution will win and get adopted despite the politics.21:04
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itsnotabigtruckyeesh, 15 years later audio on linux *still* isn't sorted out :p21:26
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itsnotabigtruck wow, this is one complicated dbus method22:26
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piggzhi harmattan devs....quick can i find out the default theme background color in a qml-components app?  appWindow.color returns black, but the color is a light grey22:48
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admiral0appWindow.color will return foreground color afaik23:54
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