IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2012-01-20

itsnotabigtruckone last thing about the sopa stuff, i am a bit tired of everybody on the planet (including americans) slagging off on the US and its politics, while turning a blind eye to the situation in the rest of the world00:00
ieatlintnext up i'll claim that i love emacs00:01
itsnotabigtruckit's very unusual to see a brit, frenchman, etc. complaining about the erosions of e-rights there00:01
deramor even worse, eclipse00:01
*** gri is now known as zz_gri00:02
ieatlinti do all my programming in nano00:02
ieatlintit's awesome00:02
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, the US is the only country on the planet that actually has freedom of speech.00:02
deramthe erosion almost always has started from US, europe comes afterwards in couple of years00:02
deramso it seems to be best to torpedo those acts on the source00:03
itsnotabigtruckGeneralAntilles: well, the 1st amendment's been weakened to the point that it's pretty similar to the status quo in most other western countries00:03
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, somewhat, but at least it's not qualified like everywhere else.00:04
GeneralAntillesWhether the courts choose to uphold it correctly is a separate issue from how it's actually written.00:04
GeneralAntillesEverybody else has a giant asterisk on their speech rights.00:04
itsnotabigtruckderam: awful lot of the developments in europe have started there (e.g. three-strikes law in france, compulsory turnover of encryption keys in the UK)00:04
*** Venemo has quit IRC00:05
ieatlintor as stated, the UK blocking a site accused of piracy, and i believe france has a policy where you can get banned from internet use for a period for piracy allegations00:06
deramwell, at least first of which have been lobbied by MPAA and its significant others00:06
itsnotabigtruckbut these sorts of laws are a problem no matter where they start cropping up, especially since legislators in other countries start getting ideas if such things gain traction elsewhere00:06
ieatlintor australia... which is pretty crazy00:06
GeneralAntillesAt its core it's an issue of governments with too much power.00:07
*** jpnurmi has left #harmattan00:08
itsnotabigtruckbut effectively limiting a government's power is pretty much impossible unless you go full libertarian, and that gets you something like industrial revolution-era america00:08
itsnotabigtruckif they have the capability to do things you want, they'll also have the capability to do things you don't want00:09
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, interesting assertion about industrial revolution-era.00:09
ieatlintok, i started this troll, but as it delves into libertarianism, even i think it should stop00:10
* GeneralAntilles doesn't get why people fear freedom.00:11
itsnotabigtruckeh, touche00:11
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: where did you find that giant bottle of good stuff? I don't deel like German law puts any major unreasonable restrictions on my right of free speech - apart from obvious cases like insult etc00:11
GeneralAntillesIf certain types of speech are prohibited then you don't have free speech.00:11
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: germany's the country that forbids nazi symbology, puts heavy restrictions on video games, etc.00:11
GeneralAntillesEspecially if courts and bureaucracies get to decide which types of speech are and are not acceptable.00:11
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: i can burn the american flag, call the president a nazi, and tattoo a swastika on my forehead withou breaking any laws00:12
GeneralAntillesFreedom of speech isn't "Speech that I agree with is OK."00:12
DocScrutinizerif I can prosecute you when you call me a liar in your "free spreech", I'd think that's even better than what US ahve00:12
itsnotabigtruckit seems like an awesome place but it's not a good example for freedom of speech00:12
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: look into britain's libel/slander laws00:12
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, whatever sort of speech you have in Europe sure aint "free speech".00:12
itsnotabigtruckthat doesn't work out so well in practice00:12
DocScrutinizeruhuh, you must know00:13
DocScrutinizersue, in USA you can call a police sucker "asshole" and you simply get shot - nice "freedom of speech"00:14
itsnotabigtruckwell, that's a completely different thing, and that isn't really normal either00:14
GeneralAntillesThe problem with these discussions is that nobody in Europe seems to have any clue what reality is like in the US.00:14
itsnotabigtruckit's definitely true that the police are a bit too brutish sometimes, but it gets exaggerated a lot00:14
GeneralAntillesJust all the anti-US bullshit.00:15
itsnotabigtruckespecially if you read a lot of reddit00:15
itsnotabigtruckGeneralAntilles: that's not quite true either00:15
ieatlinteh, the US is fucked up like every other country00:15
itsnotabigtruckbut it does seem like people have ideas of the US that are based on news stories about worst-case scenarios, and hollywood movies00:15
GeneralAntillesJealousy is an ugly color. Just ask China. *g*00:15
DocScrutinizeractually your McCarthy time been way after our 3rd-Reich00:15
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: a decade00:16
ieatlintand yeah, that was good times00:16
GeneralAntillesMcCarthy doesn't even BEGIN to compare to Nazism.00:16
DocScrutinizerand I'd think you even today just are mafe believe you got freedom of *thought*00:16
itsnotabigtruckto be clear, no one here is advocating red scare / mccarthyism00:16
GeneralAntillesMcCarthy's history is also overblown.00:16
itsnotabigtruckthe "house un-american activies commission" was one of the more un-american things the US ever did00:17
ieatlintwe have a nice and pleasant dark history :)00:17
ieatlintjapanese internment camps comes to mind as well00:17
GeneralAntillesSure, all these are terrible things.00:17
GeneralAntillesBut they aren't on the same scale or degree as what was happening in Europe and Asia during the time.00:18
itsnotabigtruckGeneralAntilles: well, the difference is that we (the allies) were supposed to be the "good guys"00:18
GeneralAntillesLet's talk about the Rape of Nanking00:18
* DocScrutinizer mumbles "the wino said: who's not with us, is against us. Who cares about *old europe*" - yeah sure you got freedom of speech over there ;-)00:18
ieatlintplus we elected a secret muslim president even though he was born in kenya00:18
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, I agree and I frequently point that out to some of my more militaristic friends.00:18
GeneralAntillesieatlint, Bush 3.000:19
ieatlintGeneralAntilles: just a colbert fan ;)00:19
itsnotabigtruck*secret COMMUNIST muslim president00:19
GeneralAntillesHe's clearly pushing for socialist policies.00:19
itsnotabigtruckerm, not really, bailouts and a health care "reform" that just puts money in the pockets of insurance companies, aren't socialist policies00:20
GeneralAntillesHe's overseen the largest expansion of the food stamp program in US history00:20
GeneralAntillesThe bailouts ARE socialism.00:20
itsnotabigtruckthe problem with obama, is that instead of taking an ideology and sticking with it, his platform is middling and vague00:20
GeneralAntillesGovernment control of companies.00:21
itsnotabigtrucksocialism would have the government take a stake in the companies00:21
* ieatlint notes the bailouts were done by bush (but obama as a senator voted for them)00:21
GeneralAntillesieatlint, WHICH bailouts. :)00:21
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: bailout phase 1 was under bush, bailout phase 2 was under obama, right?00:21
GeneralAntillesThere've been more than a few.00:21
GeneralAntillesAirlines, GM, banks, insurance companies.00:21
ieatlinti thought both were bush, but i admit i'd have to check my facts00:21
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan00:22
ieatlintsplitting hairs either way, obama supported it all00:22
DocScrutinizernow we're from OH-SO-FREE speech in USA to "this evil communist Obama"00:22
GeneralAntillesLeft, right or center, they're all scum out to take away your basic rights to benefit themselves and their friends.00:22
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: thus is politics00:23
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: well, one of the main things we exercise our oh-so-free speech for, is bitching about the president and legislature :p00:23
DocScrutinizerwhile USA media is almost like Berlusconi's Italian TV&press00:23
ieatlintpretty much00:23
itsnotabigtruckit's not good but that's more than a bit of an exaggeration00:24
itsnotabigtruckagain, often the worst examples of journalism get the international attention00:24
ieatlintrupert murdoch's out here too00:24
itsnotabigtruckespecially if you read a lot of reddit00:24
itsnotabigtruckand a large chunk of rupert murdoch's assets aren't in the US, they're in the UK and australia00:24
itsnotabigtruckmurdoch has major control over UK newspapers00:24
ieatlintand a lot of US media too00:25
itsnotabigtruckprimarily fox news, fox, and the wall street journal00:25
itsnotabigtruckfox network programming, specifically00:25
SqRt7744It's kinda sad that the USA, a country which had such awesome prospects and was founded and colonized largely by people who wanted to create something awesome and free, is now driving down the highway to destruction faster than I can change my underwear... and both major political parties seem intent on throwing fuel on the flames for political expediency.00:25
itsnotabigtruckmurdoch doesn't control fox local programming (e.g. local news) but all local news programs are 3rd rate00:25
ieatlintconclusion: the US is fucked, just like everyone else; moving on...00:25
SqRt7744fox, cnn: the differences are not as great as some would have you believe.00:26
SqRt7744msnbc, slightly different spin, but same basic story00:26
DocScrutinizern8 folks00:26
itsnotabigtruckif it makes you feel any better, much of the stuff the us presidential candidates claim to believe in, they won't carry out (and usually can't carry out) and are only saying in order to bring in a political base00:26
itsnotabigtrucklater DocScrutinizer!00:26
itsnotabigtrucksorry for putting you through all that lol00:27
ieatlintyou mean mitt romney doesn't really believe an apocalypse is coming that he must prepare for, and all non-mormons are screwed?00:28
itsnotabigtrucke.g. all the stuff about gay marriage, abortion, and anything else like that is a sideshow to lock in southern / central US votes00:28
GeneralAntillesSqRt7744, amen.00:28
GeneralAntillesDocScrutinizer, later.00:28
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: well, to be fair, setting all religious stuff aside, preparing for an "apocalypse" isn't a terrible idea00:28
ieatlinti'm still bitter sarah palin didn't run00:29
itsnotabigtrucksome people take that idea waaaaaaay too far, of course00:29
* SpeedEvil has 6 months food stored.00:29
itsnotabigtruckbut if you're prepared for the "apocalypse" you're probably prepared for close to anything disaster-wise00:29
SpeedEvilMostly so I can take extreme advantage of discounts.00:29
SqRt7744I watched the south carolina debate the other day. What a joke. Felt really bad for Ron Paul, he is the only one who actually has anything to offer, and they treat him like sh*t.00:29
GeneralAntillesitsnotabigtruck, NE, too, if they were honest. ;)00:29
GeneralAntillesSqRt7744, Gary Johnson got it even worse. ;)00:29
SqRt7744...and he doesn't really seem good at fighting back00:30
ieatlintitsnotabigtruck: my plan is to just get a gun and use other people's disaster kits00:30
GeneralAntillesHey, homicide fell off the top-15 list of causes of death in the US!00:30
ieatlintalso, bringing up a discussion about ron paul is on par with bringing up a discussion of hitler00:31
GeneralAntillesThat's why we're screwed.00:31
ieatlintit's like godwin's law00:31
GeneralAntillesRational thinking makes people crazy.00:31
itsnotabigtruckyeah, this is crazy enough as it is, let's not bring ron paul into it00:31
SqRt7744GeneralAntilles, well, I'm talking about the republican debate00:31
* DocScrutinizer suggests some hours of Zappa listening - of some of his late 60s, early 70s records - to the excited audience00:32
GeneralAntillesSqRt7744, yeah, I couldn't bring myself to watch more than 15 minutes of it.00:32
* GeneralAntilles knows who he's voting for.00:32
SqRt7744that's awfully nice of you, but really, you shouldn't00:32
SqRt7744I won't turn down donations though,00:33
* GeneralAntilles reboots to fix Lion's broken media handlers.00:33
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC00:33
ieatlinti'm voting herman cain00:33
SqRt7744i love herman cain, I've never laughed so hard at a political candidate. Most of the others (-RP) creep me out.00:34
ieatlintnothing screams libertarian like a racist that hates the gays :P00:35
*** AIN2 has quit IRC00:36
itsnotabigtrucki probably ought to reregister as republican so i can vote in the primary00:37
SqRt7744I love big governement arguments against small government types. Honestly if the government is out of my life, I couldn't care less about the personal opinions of whichever candidate. No Income Tax? No Wars? No Dept. of Education? Hell yeah!00:37
DocScrutinizeryou should register with every party you could, to do same with all of them00:38
ieatlinti see enough problems caused by radicalism00:38
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: would if i could :p in most states you pick one party on your voter registration, and ifyou pick repub or democrat you get a primary ballot00:38
SqRt7744Any candidate who wants to use the goverment to force you to think like them is scary, I don't care what they believe, because even if I agree with them, 4 years later the next goverment will have a different opinion00:38
ieatlintSqRt7744: and i can't support a government that institutionalizes descrimination and hatred00:40
SqRt7744ieatlint, exactly my point00:41
ieatlinthence i could never support ron paul00:41
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #harmattan00:42
DocScrutinizerIf I had to live in a world where evry sucker thinks like I do, I'd go berserk (and obviously, consequently whole world would do as well ;-P )00:42
SqRt7744which is why the federal government shouldn't the power in the first place00:42
SqRt7744ieatlint, I don't understand.00:42
SqRt7744i accidentally a word00:43
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: while there's plenty of reasons not to vote for ron paul, i think you're falling into the gay rights/abortion pandering trap00:45
itsnotabigtruckwhat matters is economics and foreign policy, everything else is bullshit00:45
*** xTs has quit IRC00:45
ieatlintnot to friends of mine it's not00:46
DocScrutinizerforeign policy? I never thought the average American is aware there's such a thing like that00:46
ieatlintsure we are00:47
ieatlintwe tell you guys what to do, you do it00:47
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, I diasgree, I don't want the government in my life, I don't want the federal government to have power to tell me what I can do with my life, health, who I associate with, what I do on the internet...00:47
SqRt7744I also don't want them to have to power to act extra judicially against anyone, including americans00:47
SqRt7744i want patent law reform00:47
DocScrutinizeryeah, it's "over there, in the north, err east, south? Who cares, they got something we need? we will fetch it"00:47
ieatlinthey, that's unfair... korea, vietnam, panama, afghanistan... none of those wars were for resources00:49
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: and there's the stereotype kicking in :/00:49
DocScrutinizerSqRt7744: first get rid of gitmo00:49
itsnotabigtruckdon't forget grenada!00:50
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: not, that's mere statistically supported facts00:50
ieatlintyeah, and kosovo00:50
SqRt7744american foreign policy hasn't really been about economics much. take sanctions as an example. Preventing trade damages the economy.00:50
ieatlintoh right, and libya..00:50
ieatlintsee, just 1 country (twice) for oil00:50
ieatlintwell, i guess libya counts, so 2 countries00:51
SqRt7744DocScrutinizer, absolutely. I agree that foreign policy and free markets should be at the top of the "want" list00:51
itsnotabigtruck"for oil" is doubtful00:51
itsnotabigtruckfor one because libya was already a huge supplier of oil to italy00:51
SqRt7744...and treating "the enemy" like shit is not the best way to maintain the moral high ground in any conflict00:51
itsnotabigtruckand people claim iraq was to steal their oil...where's the cheap iraqi oil00:51
itsnotabigtruckit's not going here, that's for sure00:51
ieatlintwell, that's just because we did it so incompetently00:52
ieatlintplans don't always pan out00:52
*** hardaker has quit IRC00:52
itsnotabigtruckthe most plausible motive behind the iraq war i've heard was to drive a stake into the middle east to keep iran et al out of the way00:52
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, I don't think it's a coincidence that the countries america bullies are also the main targets of israel.00:53
DocScrutinizerand probably simply to trhow out that old bombshell crap to get better new stuff, better than that you previously sold to Iraq00:54
itsnotabigtruckSqRt7744: ehh...the US supports israel because they're also a useful tool to keep the rest of the ME in line00:54
SqRt7744iraq under saddam was more than willing to part with their oil on the cheap, would have been a hell of lot cheaper than the trillions the invasion cost00:54
itsnotabigtruckand the arab world, in general, despises both the US and israel00:54
itsnotabigtruckand has for decades00:54
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, why do we want to keep anyone in line? In line with what, exactly?00:54
itsnotabigtruckso it's not surprising that the US and israel have common enemies00:54
ieatlintyes, we all miss the ottomans and british empires keeping those guys in check00:55
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, gee, I wonder why.00:55
DocScrutinizerSqRt7744: who cares what it *costs* USA as a whole, as long as 90% end in the bomb manufacturers' pockets00:55
ieatlintwar is profitable and promotes nationalism00:55
itsnotabigtruckSqRt7744: in line with not consolidating their influence, becoming a real military threat, etc.00:55
ieatlintof course it gave us massive budget deficeits, but china was happy to help, and a lot of US industry saw record profits00:56
SqRt7744war is not profitable on the whole, it is only profitable for a special interest, the weapons manufacturers. To pay them, money has to be taken from actually profitable enterprise, and that enterprise then has less money to invest in further profitable ventures. War is *always* a net loss for the economy. Especially when it is financed by a central bank by inflating the currency.00:57
itsnotabigtrucki'm not saying i support the iraq war in retrospect, but i am saying that you guys are taking a rather generic anti-us cynical viewpoint00:57
DocScrutinizernobody gives a shit about net loss00:58
ieatlintmy gf worked as a military contractor in iraq for 3 months... made about $70k for that time alone00:58
ieatlintsat on a base and managed servers, pretty easy00:58
itsnotabigtruckand WW2 was probably profitable, in the long term00:58
itsnotabigtruckbut WW2 was completely different from these more recent limited wars00:58
itsnotabigtrucki don't think anybody wants another total war00:58
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck,  I am not anti-us at all, in fact I am pro-US. But being pro-US doesn't mean agreeing with the foreign policy, which is dominated in fairly recent history by pro-zionist neocons. Their politics is destroying a great country, and their influence has to stop.00:59
ieatlintdrop the word zionist if you want to be taken seriously00:59
ieatlintit's politics, not race00:59
*** zk8 has joined #harmattan01:00
itsnotabigtruckSqRt7744: but you don't have a unique position, you have the position of every liberal on reddit01:00
itsnotabigtruckand throwing 'zionist' around is a huge red flag01:00
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, a red flag for what?01:00
DocScrutinizerjust wonder why01:00
DocScrutinizerif it is, then there's more to it01:01
ieatlintzionism has significant racial connotations01:01
ieatlint(and yes, we know what the dictionary says)01:01
SqRt7744yeah, so?01:02
DocScrutinizeroooh, and US politics is absolutely non-religious otherwise01:02
ieatlintso does that make someone who opposes israel anti-semetic?01:02
itsnotabigtruckSqRt7744: a position picked up from the general internet progressive movement, which has a strong anti-republican pro-democrat anti-israel position01:02
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, in your mind perhaps, but not in mine.01:03
itsnotabigtruckand being against israel doesn't mean being anti-semitic, but a lot of people hate israel because they a) aren't familiar with the history of conflict in the region, or b) are anti-jew01:04
*** RST38h has quit IRC01:04
DocScrutinizerI hate israel for their being arrogant assholes (their leaders/gvmnt)01:04
SqRt7744I honestly don't see what zionism has to do with repubs or democrats, other than that they both support it in various ways.01:04
DocScrutinizeror their actions01:04
ieatlintanyone who is simply anti-israel or anti-palestine can only see black and white, and is too narrow to see much more01:04
ieatlintthey're both guilty assholes01:05
DocScrutinizerI equally share that attitute to another ~5..10 countries01:05
SqRt7744itsnotabigtruck, and I am most certainly not progressive, so I don't know where you got that from.01:05
itsnotabigtruckftoad, while i'm sort of siding with israel for the purposes of this argument their government's actions are highly problematic01:05
itsnotabigtruckisrael and palestine keep provoking each other and neither is interested in serious resolution of the whole situation01:06
ieatlinti've got 3 more hours of pretending to work before i can go home :(01:06
*** Aranel has quit IRC01:06
itsnotabigtruckit's a hate based conflict01:06
DocScrutinizerpalestine one of the other asshole "countries", for sure01:07
itsnotabigtruckalso whoops, that should have been *ftaod (for the avoidance of doubt)01:08
ieatlintlet's just agree to blame the uk and un for it all01:08
mprthe root problem is that US and others were retards and didn't allow the establishment of a palestinian state beside Israel01:08
ieatlintsure, canada too01:08
DocScrutinizerlet's blame CANADA01:08
*** norayr has quit IRC01:08
ieatlintwe should go invade canada and steal their oil01:08
itsnotabigtruckmpr: what? the UN partition plan specifically divided the mandate of palestine into an israel part and a palestine part01:08
SqRt7744ieatlint, tarsands. Please, take them.01:08
mpritsnotabigtruck: yes, and no-one recognised palestine01:09
itsnotabigtruckthen most of the arab world declared war on israel to take the land for themselves01:09
itsnotabigtruckhad that not happened, there'd be a significantly larger palestine today01:09
ieatlintSqRt7744: i love that politicians here have actually said using that oil will "decrease our dependence on foreign oil"01:09
itsnotabigtruckand it wouldn't be a conflict zone01:09
ieatlintwe don't even regard canada as foreign :P01:09
DocScrutinizerSqRt7744: you forgot "...and keep the wase"01:09
DocScrutinizerwaste even01:10
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: because they don't want to say "middle eastern and chinese oil" :p01:10
ieatlintwe don't get oil from china01:11
ieatlintwe get it from canada, venezuela, domestic production and the middle east primarily01:11
itsnotabigtruckmm, gp01:11
SqRt7744<yawn> seriously who cares about the arab/israeli conflict. They're both grown up and can fight it out themselves. I just don't want american politicians influenced by AIPAC vying for who can kiss the most israeli ass as a prerequisite for being "electable"... and the christian sheep thinking it is somehow their God-given duty to support israel in any and every way they can.01:11
itsnotabigtruckthat's another problem, the aforementioned political christian bloc01:12
ieatlinteh, a large part of US support of israel can be blamed on florida01:12
SqRt7744DocScrutinizer, I'm a dual US/Can citizen so I can both off and accept the tar-sands01:12
itsnotabigtruckit's definitely paradoxical how we have constitutionally-enforced secular government and yet religion has a severe influence in elections and a moderate influence in legislation, whereas many european countries have state churches, 'christian democrat' parties, and/or church integration into gov/schools, and yet way less religious influence over government01:14
DocScrutinizerbasically none at all01:15
itsnotabigtruckeh, there's still some01:15
SqRt7744...the evangelical/israel thing is also a fairly recent phenomenon, I never really got it either. Jesus was pretty hard on the pharisees, destroyed the temple and whatnot, and the conflicts in the middle east are really bad for the christians living there, yet the american christians care less about their brothers in the middle east than some preceived threat to the holy state of Israel...01:15
artemmaWhat would be the easy way for creating a multiselection list?I really like the colors and functionality of a MultiSelectionDialog, but.. it's a dialog. I want to create a similar looking list and would like to avoid creating full logic, colors and layout for delegate myself01:15
itsnotabigtruckok, better get back to harmattan stuff, heh01:16
DocScrutinizerwow, a OT call01:16
ieatlinthaha, yeah01:16
DocScrutinizerok, so stop it now01:16
ieatlinti need to be drunk to continue this conversation anyway01:17
itsnotabigtruckartemma: are you sure the dialog isn't an option?01:17
itsnotabigtrucki think it's the most 'native' way to do it01:17
artemmaitsnotabigtruck: Dialog is an option. However, thing is the whole app is going to be just a selection list + Save/Cancel/About :)01:18
artemmasort of a setting page for something that should have been in phone Settings actually01:18
artemmabe I more diligent, I would have thought about making it a Setting page01:18
*** tbf has quit IRC01:19
*** tbf has joined #harmattan01:19
itsnotabigtruckartemma: why not do it as a settings page now?01:20
artemmathat is possible01:20
artemmastill, I don't think there's a multiselection list element for settings01:20
artemmaaren't all multiselection cases in settings dialogs?01:20
*** benares_98 has quit IRC01:21
DocScrutinizerzenity ;-D01:23
*** benares_98 has joined #harmattan01:24
DocScrutinizerif only zenity had a way to combine multiple instances into one "canvas" / window, whatever01:24
*** neku has quit IRC01:26
*** jabis has quit IRC01:28
SqRt7744has anyone tried to replace the qtcreator 2.3 in the the sdk with 2.4?01:28
*** jabis has joined #harmattan01:29
*** benares_98 has quit IRC01:31
artemmaDocScrutinizer: oh, cross-platform dialog boxes, I'd never be able to come up to even idea of it :)01:32
artemmaand yeah, i'd need a bit more then just a dialog. Same reason why MultiSelectionDialog isn't good enough: I need a list, a couple of buttons (one with menu) and a bit of logic too01:34
*** benares_98 has joined #harmattan01:34
DocScrutinizerclearly beyonf zenity's capabilities, though it has way more rhan just yes/no dialogs01:35
DocScrutinizerzenity --help-list01:36
*** Jare has quit IRC01:36
*** splyysh has quit IRC01:37
*** splyysh has joined #harmattan01:37
*** Jare has joined #harmattan01:37
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC01:46
*** jabis has quit IRC01:49
*** SqRt7744 has quit IRC01:50
infobotit has been said that malf is
*** Transformer has joined #harmattan02:01
*** Transformer has left #harmattan02:02
*** artemma has quit IRC02:03
itsnotabigtruckarcean: oh yeah, i read about that. so aegis-exec'ing something can cause aegis to blow?02:04
itsnotabigtrucki thought MALFs were mostly about boot-time integrity failures, aegis itself is supposed to enforce integrity after bootup02:05
itsnotabigtruckand not by killing the phone02:05
arceanitsnotabigtruck: nope, I just needed an image showing malf state :P02:06
ieatlinti think it's more like aegis is needed to run a number of services, and if the services fail to start, the watchdog reboots the phone02:06
ieatlintand malf kicks in when it detects a reboot loop02:06
itsnotabigtruckarcean: but i think that picture is from when somebody aegis-exec'd bash and it triggered a MALF02:07
itsnotabigtruckieatlint: i'm pretty sure it usually happens from an integrity failure, that's why it says 'security problem' at the bottom02:08
itsnotabigtruckit means something didn't check out02:08
arceanitsnotabigtruck: yes, you're right, but it still has "Device is malf..." text :)02:09
*** artemma has joined #harmattan02:09
ieatlintmalf is a great name at least02:10
itsnotabigtrucksince the aegis code is open source, for the most part, i wonder if it would be possible to rebuild aegis on top of selinux02:14
*** Natunen has quit IRC02:14
itsnotabigtruckin order to produce security enhanced meego :p02:14
*** jabis has joined #harmattan02:17
*** faenil has joined #harmattan02:32
*** zk8 has quit IRC02:33
*** rm_work has quit IRC02:37
merlin1991moving my scratchbox to a new box, great fun02:39
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC02:51
*** adlan has quit IRC02:56
*** faenil has quit IRC02:59
itsnotabigtruckman, it's soooooo cold03:13
itsnotabigtruckhas anyone tried the ebuddy XMS app for meego?03:13
*** Rantwolf has quit IRC03:13
itsnotabigtruckif so, how tightly integrated is it with the messaging gui03:13
ieatlintnot too bad here03:14
*** Anssi138 has quit IRC03:15
*** artemma has quit IRC03:17
*** artemma has joined #harmattan03:24
*** Smtih has joined #harmattan03:25
*** jluisn has joined #harmattan03:44
*** jluisn has quit IRC03:50
*** arcean has quit IRC03:52
*** artemma has quit IRC03:54
*** Smtih has quit IRC03:59
*** artemma has joined #harmattan04:01
*** jluisn has joined #harmattan04:02
*** wirwe has quit IRC04:07
*** artemma has quit IRC04:23
*** jluisn has quit IRC04:26
*** artemma has joined #harmattan04:29
*** keithzg has quit IRC04:42
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan04:54
*** beford has quit IRC05:02
*** beford has joined #harmattan05:10
*** beford has quit IRC05:16
*** beford has joined #harmattan05:18
*** Natunen has joined #harmattan05:49
*** pinheiro has quit IRC06:36
*** pinheiro has joined #harmattan06:37
*** JackaLX has quit IRC07:09
*** JackaLX has joined #harmattan07:11
*** artemma has quit IRC07:28
*** benares_98 has quit IRC07:29
*** artemma has joined #harmattan07:34
*** xarcass has joined #harmattan07:35
*** beford has quit IRC07:50
*** vladest has joined #harmattan07:53
*** Natunen has quit IRC07:54
*** rcg has joined #harmattan08:02
*** natunen has joined #harmattan08:03
*** natunen has quit IRC08:06
*** hardaker has quit IRC08:07
*** beford has joined #harmattan08:08
*** Natunen has joined #harmattan08:09
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan08:34
*** vladest has quit IRC08:45
*** leinir has quit IRC09:33
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC09:35
*** Anssi138 has joined #harmattan09:57
*** Rantwolf has joined #harmattan09:59
*** jpnurmi has joined #harmattan10:01
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan10:02
*** artemma has quit IRC10:04
*** artemma has joined #harmattan10:10
*** vladest has joined #harmattan10:12
*** leinir has joined #harmattan10:16
*** Stecchino_ is now known as Stecchino10:17
*** RST38h has joined #harmattan10:18
*** ArkanoiD_ has quit IRC10:29
*** ArkanoiD_ has joined #harmattan10:36
*** beford has quit IRC10:37
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC10:47
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan10:47
*** zz_gri is now known as gri10:52
*** ZogG_N9 has joined #harmattan10:53
*** jreznik has joined #harmattan10:54
*** tbf has joined #harmattan10:55
ZogG_N9X-Fade, ping10:57
*** ZogG_N9 has quit IRC11:02
rantomHas anyone else had issues with the Ovi Store lately?11:09
rantomI've been unable to download Air UI and Speed Test11:09
*** SqRt7744 has joined #harmattan11:14
mjacouldn't download speedtest either11:23
mjathere's another hit when you search for speedtest that works11:23
mjaI couldn't download/install the QR reader either11:23
rantomYeah, the cnLab one11:24
rantomIt works but.. well, it works11:24
*** admiral0_ has quit IRC11:28
*** lamikr has joined #harmattan11:28
*** snowpong has joined #harmattan11:28
matrixxhey, what was the site where was a trick how to hide icons for default app you don't use from the homescreen?11:33
matrixxI need to start gathering the tips somewhere, I always can't find everything second time :/11:37
rantomThere's a thread in for tips too11:37
rantomnot sure if that trick is in that list11:39
*** secyritas has quit IRC11:40
matrixxrantom: it is, it's this:
rantommatrixx: Thanks11:42
*** rcg has quit IRC11:53
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC12:00
*** gabriel9 has joined #harmattan12:02
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan12:06
djszapijonni ping internally12:06
*** secyritas has joined #harmattan12:07
jonniinternal pong12:09
*** rcg has joined #harmattan12:14
*** artemma has quit IRC12:17
*** leinir has quit IRC12:21
*** gri is now known as zz_gri12:22
*** artemma has joined #harmattan12:23
*** kralor has joined #harmattan12:28
*** arcean has joined #harmattan12:29
*** lizardo has joined #harmattan12:45
*** leinir has joined #harmattan12:48
*** leinir has joined #harmattan12:48
* rZr rebuilt game powder12:49
*** RST38h has quit IRC12:59
*** RST38h has joined #harmattan13:05
*** jluisn has joined #harmattan13:16
auenfhmm, where is the option to avoid tolls in maps or drive?13:24
auenfand also avoid u-turns, seeing as it wants me to make an illegal u-turn at a set of lights13:24
*** djszapi has left #harmattan13:25
SqRt7744illegal u-turns are awesome.13:31
auenfgoogle maps does worse13:32
auenfwhat use is that in the route :P13:33
auenfif i can copy a link from, i can show the illegal u-turn :P13:37
*** Anssi138 has quit IRC13:37
*** zk8 has joined #harmattan14:07
*** etrunko has joined #harmattan14:08
*** zk8 has quit IRC14:22
*** fuz_ has quit IRC14:22
*** Smtih has joined #harmattan14:26
*** fuz_ has joined #harmattan14:28
*** Smtih has quit IRC14:42
*** etrunko has quit IRC15:02
*** xarcass has quit IRC15:03
*** arcean_ has joined #harmattan15:03
*** arcean has quit IRC15:04
*** tbf_ has joined #harmattan15:05
*** tbf has quit IRC15:08
*** vladest has quit IRC15:11
*** etrunko has joined #harmattan15:13
*** khertan_ has quit IRC15:15
*** etrunko has quit IRC15:21
*** artemma has quit IRC15:23
*** lamikr has quit IRC15:26
*** etrunko has joined #harmattan15:28
*** artemma has joined #harmattan15:30
*** etrunko has quit IRC15:30
*** etrunko has joined #harmattan15:30
*** mairas has joined #harmattan15:39
*** faenil has joined #harmattan15:56
*** adlan has joined #harmattan15:59
*** khertan has joined #harmattan16:07
*** RST38h has quit IRC16:09
*** hardaker has joined #harmattan16:09
*** mairas has quit IRC16:14
*** vladest has joined #harmattan16:19
*** ArkanoiD_ has quit IRC16:33
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan16:53
*** [XeN] has quit IRC16:55
SqRt7744quick question about the qml/c++ development: I have my qml files in src/ui, and they are listed in the .pro file under "OTHER_FILES", but the project can't find them in the shadow build debug directory when I try to run it...  why aren't they getting copied over??17:15
*** zk8 has joined #harmattan17:16
*** rm_work has joined #harmattan17:16
*** rm_work has joined #harmattan17:16
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan17:23
*** lizardo has quit IRC17:26
*** lizardo has joined #harmattan17:28
*** tbf_ has quit IRC17:32
*** djszapiN950 has joined #harmattan17:34
*** tbf_ has joined #harmattan17:35
djszapiN950X-Fade, does your qmltube fork work fine on Harmattan ?17:35
*** tbf_ has quit IRC17:43
*** arcean__ has joined #harmattan17:45
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan17:46
*** arcean_ has quit IRC17:48
*** djszapi has left #harmattan17:52
*** zk8 has quit IRC17:54
*** benares_98 has joined #harmattan17:55
*** gabriel9 has quit IRC18:03
*** leinir has quit IRC18:04
*** zz_gri is now known as gri18:05
griSqRt7744: they have to be added to INSTALLS in the .pro file. Normally the "new project" wizard does that for you18:09
*** djszapiN950 has quit IRC18:10
*** lizardo has quit IRC18:11
SqRt7744gri, thanks, I am porting an evopedia to harmattan, and am redesigning the interface. I got it sorted out though, created a resource file and access the files that way18:11
SqRt7744they're compiled in now, which may be faster anyway.18:12
*** jreznik is now known as jreznik_work18:13
M4rtinKthp: you there ? :)18:15
*** tbf_ has joined #harmattan18:17
*** gri is now known as zz_gri18:23
*** arcean__ is now known as arcean18:26
*** leinir has joined #harmattan18:38
*** ronan22 has quit IRC18:48
*** faenil has quit IRC18:49
*** faenil has joined #harmattan18:51
*** benares_98 has quit IRC18:52
*** benares_98 has joined #harmattan18:53
*** divan has quit IRC18:54
*** lizardo has joined #harmattan18:54
*** zz_gri is now known as gri19:03
*** fuz_ has quit IRC19:03
*** IcanCU has quit IRC19:03
*** cfetzer has quit IRC19:03
*** fuz_ has joined #harmattan19:08
*** tbf_ has quit IRC19:12
*** rcg has quit IRC19:14
*** AIN2 has joined #harmattan19:16
*** vladest has quit IRC19:28
*** IcanCU has joined #harmattan19:41
*** benares_98 has quit IRC19:41
*** benares_98 has joined #harmattan19:42
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: ping19:43
itsnotabigtruckit's a shame there hasn't been more stuff uploaded to apps.formeego.org19:45
ZogG_laptopןא 'שד19:46
ZogG_laptopit was19:46
ZogG_laptopone app is waiting for approval btw19:46
itsnotabigtruckthat said it's not super compelling compared to nokia's store...we need to get deeper into this open mode stuff19:47
ZogG_laptopbut if you mean globally - than yes19:47
itsnotabigtruckmaybe the client can be adapted into a haxx0r store19:47
itsnotabigtruckZogG_laptop: i meant that there's about 10 apps, total19:48
ZogG_laptopi got khtpasswdgen =)19:48
itsnotabigtruckand almost all of them are on ovi store too19:48
*** beford has joined #harmattan19:48
itsnotabigtruckhow does the qa procedure compare to nokia's19:48
itsnotabigtruckcould be useful to get sideload apps signed for delivery to non-dev mode users19:49
ZogG_laptophave no idea19:49
itsnotabigtruckif it's less of a pain than nokia's store19:49
ZogG_laptopyeah but a lot of people wouldn't want go fully opensource as well it's about oficiallity19:50
itsnotabigtruckbut the thing is, anything that could possibly be approved for either or can be installed from devmode anyway19:50
itsnotabigtruckah right, one of the conditions is to get built by their build server, isn't it19:50
ZogG_laptopfor example even if e.g. molome would be opensource it would be only on ovi as their target is all users and not community guys19:50
itsnotabigtruckbut sideloading is easy if you have other ways to communicate with your users19:51
ZogG_laptoptrue, but they don't aim only for n9, so they wouldn't work so hard just for it19:51
itsnotabigtruckafaik if you have a deb signed by you can put it wherever you want and users can download it and tap to install19:51
itsnotabigtruck(or nokia store for that matter)19:52
itsnotabigtruckthough users have to toggle the relevant option first19:52
ZogG_laptopi don't get one thing19:52
ZogG_laptopif apps4meego has testing, why dooes it make QA before19:53
ZogG_laptopjust make testing apps noot signed and that's it19:53
itsnotabigtruckas much as everybody's been complaining about aegis, at least it's very reasonable compared to iphone | wp7 | to some extent android19:53
itsnotabigtruckwp7 makes you pay to get less access to your phone19:53
*** artemma has quit IRC19:54
itsnotabigtruckn9 has a free devmode that gives you exactly as much access as any non-nokia app19:54
*** gri is now known as zz_gri19:54
ZogG_laptopnot true19:55
ZogG_laptopthere are things that re closed to dev as well19:56
ZogG_laptopfor example - led19:56
ZogG_laptopbut on other side we hope for open-mode19:56
itsnotabigtruckhmm? if you look at the aegis access lists, the apps.formeego, dev mode, and nokia store sources have identical access19:56
itsnotabigtruckonly the root key can grant more access19:57
ZogG_laptopwe do not have rot as well19:57
ZogG_laptopi want coffee19:57
itsnotabigtruckalso because of that, shouldn't it be possible to control the led from dev mode?19:57
itsnotabigtruckthere's a nokia store app that does that19:57
itsnotabigtruckso if it can you can, without any signing19:58
itsnotabigtruck[i'm assuming you mean the camera flash]19:58
*** artemma has joined #harmattan20:00
ZogG_laptopi mean the notification led20:01
itsnotabigtruckoh, well, my point was that there's things that are closed to dev mode but they're closed to everything else too20:02
itsnotabigtruckexcept root key-signed stuff that's only part of the firmware20:02
ZogG_laptopyeah and my poit is who made decision what and why should be closed20:04
*** cfetzer has joined #harmattan20:06
*** Shadikka has quit IRC20:06
*** Sazpaimon has quit IRC20:08
*** Shadikka has joined #harmattan20:18
*** jpnurmi has left #harmattan20:22
*** vladest has joined #harmattan20:23
*** vladest_ has joined #harmattan20:26
*** vladest has quit IRC20:28
*** vladest_ is now known as vladest20:28
*** djszapiN950 has joined #harmattan20:28
*** benares_98_ has joined #harmattan20:39
*** IcanCU has quit IRC20:42
*** IcanCU has joined #harmattan20:42
*** benares_98 has quit IRC20:44
*** faenil has quit IRC20:48
*** chris_ has joined #harmattan20:48
chris_hello, can you submit a library package to the ovi store because I have a bunch of classes that are used by multiple apps I'm working on?20:50
ieatlinti don't believe so20:50
*** djszapiN950 has quit IRC20:53
chris_what would you suggest, statically linked library included in all of the app packages?20:56
*** heiko has joined #harmattan21:01
*** heiko has quit IRC21:02
ieatlintpretty much... although unless your lib is huge, i wouldn't worry too much about it21:06
M4rtinKat least Apps ForMeeGo might get dependency handling  some time in the future, though :)21:08
*** xTs has joined #harmattan21:08
chris_it would be neat if they had a separate category for library submissions them needing no QA after all only the apps using them21:11
cos^ovi sucks anyway, i won't be using it anymore21:11
cos^they have also broken package updates21:11
ieatlintexcept that you could update a library without QA and break apps that depend on it who passed QA21:12
ieatlintinterestingly, with symbian, a dll installed by one app is usable by any app21:13
rantomI kind of miss installing from .deb21:13
ZogG_laptopeveryone does21:13
ZogG_laptopnd ovi uses deb21:13
ZogG_laptopbut not the same way21:13
cos^ieatlint: that happens on any distribution, and can be avoided by having separate testing repo21:13
rantomBut until the one-click-flashers come available from Nokia itself I won't root my N921:13
chris_ieatlint, in meego it is too21:13
cos^there is if you want proper repository with updates & all21:14
ieatlintcos^: yeah, QA21:14
cos^but i don't think it supports commercial sw21:14
ieatlintrantom: also, don't expect a OCF for the n9 to ever come out21:14
chris_coffee costs money21:14
rantomBut, correct me if I'm wrong, it can mess the device up? Or was that the -testing repository, the "unofficial testing repository for Harmattan"/etc?21:14
rantomieatlint: Yep, kind of prepared for that21:15
rantomMaybe I'll root it in.. 2013 October when the warranty is out :D21:15
ieatlinti'm not clear what you mean by "root" it21:15
ieatlintyou mean the openmode stuff?21:16
chris_he means killing aegis21:16
rantomWell not necessarily21:16
ieatlintah, yeah, how's the cert stuff going with that?21:16
ieatlintlast i heard things like ssl and accounts didn't work21:16
rantomBut I mean enabling developer-mode and alternative sources to install packages21:16
rantomBut maybe replacing Aegis too, if I can find some use for it21:17
rantomieatlint: I think they do work now just fine21:17
chris_I openmoded one of my n9's, still cant install with proper certs21:17
rantomnvm then21:17
ieatlintwell, you can do alternative sources without even enabling dev mode21:18
rantomBut I'll stick with the Ovi Store for now21:19
rantomI do have the N950 too so21:19
thpM4rtinK: here now21:19
rantomNo need to worry about the warranty in that :)21:19
rantomSome sort of update of the Ovi Store or the broken apps would be nice though21:21
rantomSince I can't install Air UI nor Speed Test (as I mentioned earlier)21:22
*** faenil has joined #harmattan21:26
ZogG_laptopM4rtinK: i saw you port of gtk+ + python21:32
ZogG_laptopis there any app using it alrady?21:33
*** AIN2 has quit IRC21:46
*** divan has joined #harmattan21:53
*** phdeswer has quit IRC21:53
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC21:56
*** etrunko has quit IRC21:56
*** jluisn has quit IRC22:01
*** admiral0 has joined #harmattan22:01
*** jluisn has joined #harmattan22:04
*** faenil has quit IRC22:07
divanIs there a howto how to create Dummy network for USB Networking for N9(50), like in N900?22:09
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #harmattan22:10
*** benares_98_ has quit IRC22:20
dm8tbrisn't that just SDK mode?22:24
*** AIN2 has joined #harmattan22:27
*** divan has quit IRC22:30
*** AIN2 has quit IRC22:31
*** AIN2 has joined #harmattan22:32
M4rtinKZogG_laptop: I got unmodified modRana running22:33
M4rtinKmodRana uses Cairo and GTK through PyGTK22:33
M4rtinKbut haven't heard about any other uses so far22:34
M4rtinKalso, there are three main issues: plain GTK widgets look ugly without that Hildon theme/tweaks, virtual keyboard is not triggered and it won't build in some OBS repositories22:36
admiral0M4rtinK: pics or it didn't happen22:39
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan22:43
*** djszapi has left #harmattan22:43
admiral0gtk widgets screenshots?22:46
M4rtinKalso, if somebody is interested in continuing the porting effort, everything is in:
M4rtinKthe gtk-fremantle package22:47
M4rtinKwell, that's a gtk.Widget drawn by Cairo :)22:48
*** RST38h has joined #harmattan22:49
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC22:50
*** snowpong has quit IRC22:57
M4rtinKadmiral0: this is how a dialogue + label and entry box look like:
M4rtinKwould need either a proper theme22:59
M4rtinKor at least a device specific size22:59
M4rtinKalso note that id does not trigger the virtual keyboard22:59
*** Shadikka has quit IRC23:03
M4rtinKseems also quite fast on the N950 BTW23:03
*** lizardo has quit IRC23:04
admiral0cpu/gpu combo is better23:12
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan23:12
*** rm_work has quit IRC23:13
*** norayr has joined #harmattan23:14
*** ajalkane has joined #harmattan23:15
*** Shadikka has joined #harmattan23:15
*** jluisn has quit IRC23:23
*** faenil has joined #harmattan23:26
*** npm_ is now known as npm23:34
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #harmattan23:34
*** diggy has joined #harmattan23:38
*** rcg has joined #harmattan23:39
*** chris_ has quit IRC23:43
*** coffetime has joined #harmattan23:46
coffetimehi there23:46
coffetimeI have a sqlite database and I don't want it to be readable23:47
coffetimeby user23:47
coffetimejust my app23:47
coffetimewhat's the best solution?23:47
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC23:47
djszapiaegisfs and protected storage.23:48
coffetimeit's a readonly database23:48
*** ZogG_laptop has joined #harmattan23:48
coffetimeany documents on aegisfs?23:48
* admiral0 interested too23:49
*** kralor has quit IRC23:52
djszapiyou can have weaker defenses too, like no readable flag set, but that is not that safe.23:52
*** kralor has joined #harmattan23:53
admiral0so aegisfs is like a ecryptfs with different name and belonging to group crypto23:55
djszapithere are huge differences between them23:56
admiral0nice trick protecting /proc btw23:57
*** ZogG_laptop has quit IRC23:57
*** jpnurmi has joined #harmattan23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!