IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2012-01-16

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damaltorhi everybody. after searching around finding infos about aegis, i noticed that lot of people talk about mesg not being usable from the terminal app. i can use dmesg on my terminal, and i have not messed around with aegis (yet). so, what is true? dmesg is working for everyone, or dmesg shoud not be working?00:39
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SpeedEviluit's changed00:42
damaltorits changed to "dmesg is allowed now", or changed to "dmesg is not any longer allowed"?00:43
SpeedEvilmesg is allowed now00:44
damaltorah ok00:47
damaltorthanks then00:47
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pawkywhere can i find traceroute for the N9 ?01:15
SpeedEvilit's in the dev-tools package isn't it?01:17
SpeedEvilagter you enable devmode, it's one of the packages01:17
pawkyhavent found it.. :-(01:22
pawkythought it was though...01:22
pawkydevtools-networking only contains tcpdump01:23
pawkyohh...... its caaaalled xtrace... :-)01:23
pawkyehh.. but doesnt work ...01:26
pawkycomplains about xauth remove terminated with exit code 1!01:27
pawkycould you try it?01:27
pawkyohh... wait... ehh...01:27
pawkyhow stupid am i..... thats for tracint x-windows.... :-(01:27
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pawkyso... back to square one, where can I find traceroute (or its N9 equivalent) ?01:30
SpeedEviloops - on checking - not.01:31
SpeedEvilAlso - n950 LCD is slow at 3c ambient01:32
pawkywell... no comment on that, as i have an N9...01:33
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rafael2kaudio works from inside a chroot, I'm really starting to enjoy harmattan!01:40
rafael2k; )01:40
rafael2kmay be could be possible to run the maemo5 ui right?01:41
pawkyI could run the maemo traceroute yes, if you are refering to my problems... but I haven't found that traceroute either...01:42
pawkyAm I the only one who would like to use traceroute on the N9... ?01:58
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damaltorpawky: no. :D but the n9 is not the n900, unfortunately :/02:07
pawkywell.. when it comes to none UI stuff its pretty much the same... :-)02:07
pawkyI think I have found one version now..  if aegis wont complain, I will try it...02:07
pawkyfiiiiinally.... huh..02:09
* pawky is happily tracerouting again...02:09
rafael2kIt's really close to maemo5 in the underliyng02:10
pawkythats another way to put it... .:-)02:11
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damaltorpawky: you found it? where?02:18
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damaltori even wanted to add that repository an hour ago02:21
pawkyits just plain idiocy, its not in the sdk02:21
pawkyyou get tcpdump, but not traceroute...02:22
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pawkyThen again, of what good use it is when you cannot enter promiscuous mode, thanks to that aegis... :-(02:41
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damaltorwell. aegis is mean. i do heavily dislike it02:48
damaltorbit well see what will happen in the future. i think it is a matter of time02:48
* SpeedEvil notes the win-8 tablet thing.02:50
SpeedEvilThe future is getting scary.02:50
damaltorwin8 is alreday annoing me heavily :P02:51
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GeneralAntillesHrm, anybody have a link for " is closing" news?05:21
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itsnotabigtruckSpeedEvil: which thing? (concerning win8)05:30
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itsnotabigtruckand re the aegis stuff, i think it's definitely a matter of time now that we have an unlocked bootloader05:31
itsnotabigtrucki.e. open mode05:31
SpeedEvilIf you want win8 on your system, you must use a locked bootloader which can't have other OSs loaded on it05:32
itsnotabigtruckSpeedEvil: that's...not surprising, but it confirms some of the rumors05:33
itsnotabigtruckalso *win8 arm tablet version05:33
itsnotabigtruckwhich is clearly aiming to be more like the ipad than windows per se05:33
itsnotabigtruckalso interesting, my N9's compass is working again05:36
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fignewmgedmin: did you ever figure out what caused Applify to keep on spamming "Amount of free memory dropped below threshold, re-prestart disabled"?06:50
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itsnotabigtruckhmm, i think there was someone here who wanted a podcast solution for the N9?07:38
itsnotabigtrucker, that was mgedmin and s/he's already using gpodder07:40
itsnotabigtruckalso i wish reviewers on the ovi store would write properly or not at all :/07:42
psycho_oreosthere's not much cure for that, its evident with younger generations whom probably do little talking :)08:06
psycho_oreosI guess its the same sort of ordeal as has always been with owners of N900.. and those set of people are abundant everywhere else08:07
psycho_oreosugh DocScrutinizer ping08:10
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, forget about the ping.. it suddenly just dawned on me what losses will there be should I proceed to do something which I may end up regretting08:14
* psycho_oreos thinks about the idea of having another n9 but completely loathes the idea of having n9 at all08:15
itsnotabigtruckpsycho_oreos: now i'm curious :p how were you planning on killing your phone08:19
psycho_oreositsnotabigtruck, by repetitively bashing around Flop's head at this rate..08:20
psycho_oreosdeath by n9..08:20
psycho_oreoslike that couple whom the female killed her male partner by repeatedly using ipod as a weapon and bashing her partner's head with it08:21
psycho_oreosthat would be a glorious death really08:21
* psycho_oreos sighs and thinks of other ways08:22
itsnotabigtruckbtw what are some awesome apps (regardless of how they're distributed)08:23
itsnotabigtrucki've mostly been using store apps so far but it seems like there's stuff all over the place08:24
psycho_oreosthere's even stuff available from my-meego. I haven't found out (yet, neither am I really interested for now) in adding that repository as well (if there is one). Some apps from my-meego seems to not be available from ovi suite08:26
psycho_oreosall the cool developer/commmand-line tools can be found once enabling harmattan-dev repository on n908:27
psycho_oreostoo bad aegis decides to be a complete pita08:27
itsnotabigtruck ooh, it's an instagramifier08:30
psycho_oreosseems like that site (amongst the plethora of other sites) have blocked my ISP and therefore I cannot visit the site08:31
psycho_oreosbacklighter is a pretty cool app, reminds me of something like a simple-backlight program for N900 except now its in a rather annoying app icon form08:34
psycho_oreoserr simple-backlight-widget or whatever it is08:35
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itsnotabigtruckapparently your ip is for vodafone australia? why would anyone block that in particular08:36
psycho_oreosthat's what I thought.. after a long bickering with VHA (vodafone hutchinson Australia) their tech support team, I just happen to be given the ISP's block allocation and was told to email the site whom blocked the ISP to unblock it08:37
psycho_oreosironically my phone goes through the same provider (though slightly different block range allocation due to IP leasing through subsidiaries) has no issues visiting many of the so call blocked sites08:38
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: ironicalledy my phone goes through the same provider (though slightly different block range allocation due to IP leasing through subsidiaries) has no issues visiting many of the so call blocked sites08:39
itsnotabigtruckhmm, apparently apps can be hidden from the terminal...not sure why i didn't think of that08:41
psycho_oreosyup there was a blog that I stumbled across which happen to discuss that as I was crawling through google's search results for enabling open access with aegis... somehow08:42
psycho_oreos <--- here08:43
hiemanshuanyone tried alternative OS on the N9(50)?08:45
psycho_oreosI probably would have IF I had N950 AND n9.. I'd try it on n9 though08:46
psycho_oreos <--- and that just rubs salt in an open and deep wound lol.. I really like vi_'s response on the contrary to that08:52
psycho_oreosaegis is so much more obedient on N950 and so insanely obscure on n908:54
itsnotabigtruckso nokia straight up offered N950s to people? i was assuming that it was the launchpad program where you request an N950 after having been approved (not that exclusive)08:55
itsnotabigtruckbut i guess if there's VIP N950s around that explains why nokia isn't in a hurry to get them back08:56
psycho_oreosI've heard rumours that nokia still hands out N950 like lollies to those whom jumps onboard and talks to the `right' people08:58
itsnotabigtruckbtw how does dev mode adjust the aegis security policy08:58
itsnotabigtruckit somehow replaces the policy, causing the ! during boot or whatnot08:59
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psycho_oreoseven well before the application for community development I've heard N950 were handed out to those whom attended Qt summit in Finland or something..08:59
psycho_oreosI think it installs an extra package which may signify aegis to relax a little08:59
itsnotabigtruckyeah... of course the plane tickets for that would have cost well more than the phone :p08:59
psycho_oreosat least to have the actual device is far more better than having a crippled n909:00
itsnotabigtruckand it installs the package, but then the package does something09:00
itsnotabigtruckand it's something that the bootloader knows about09:00
psycho_oreosnot that I'm aware of.. I'm sure the package that I found has nothing noteworthy inside.. though as we all know aegis is booted when kernel is booted more or less as its a kernel module so when aegis detects that file is present or package somehow it will so that09:01
psycho_oreosI haven't really seen the exclamation mark on my n9 with dev mode on09:01
psycho_oreosthat's with pr1.0 :D09:01
itsnotabigtruckyeah, i just rebooted mine and i'm not seeing that09:01
itsnotabigtrucksaw that in the docs somewhere09:01
itsnotabigtruckoh, ok09:01
itsnotabigtruckanyway, mandatory access control is good stuff, in theory09:02
psycho_oreosI've read that as well.. I guess it may apply to latter pr versions or N950 owners I suppose09:02
itsnotabigtruckit's just that we need to keep dominion over it09:02
itsnotabigtruck i've been busy with playing with the N9, traveling, etc. but i definitely need to do a bit more research into what's actually going on w/ aegis-related app breakage09:03
itsnotabigtruck that said bricking a shiny new N9 with little to no warranty support wouldn't be so hot09:04
psycho_oreosI think they've gone well overboard with this aegis.. it just seems far more obscure than google's chrooted environment, apple's iOS jail as well as microsoft's jail09:04
psycho_oreosaccess to a second n9 would be handy, it is pretty much an idea that has been stuck to the back of me head for sometime no matter how much I loathe the n909:05
itsnotabigtruckit's probably mostly because i haven't actually had an iphone or android phone before but the N9 has been awesome so far...but i haven't really gotten into programming it yet09:05
itsnotabigtruckbut i'm judging it by phone standards09:05
itsnotabigtrucknot internet tablet standards09:05
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itsnotabigtruckbut the thing is that i get the distinct impression that the N900 wasn't slick09:06
itsnotabigtruckthe N9 is09:06
psycho_oreospouring money to a dead-end when really they should have either sold N950 OR make n9 more practical to tinkerers who are NOT developers but keen linux power users09:06
itsnotabigtruckand in my opinion it doesn't matter how hackable it is, if it isn't smooth09:06
psycho_oreosto me I'm looking for a cross between a smartphone and internet tablet with proper hardware keyboard. Apart from N900, the rare N950 is.. Cutting the wounds was the fact that N950 would behave if you turned aegis into open mode.. you can't even do that on n9, you just get permission denied09:07
thppsycho_oreos: actually the n9 makes up for the hardware keyboard by other features compared to the n95009:08
psycho_oreosthp, yeah things like NFC, 1GB of RAM, and can also be purchased with various colours along with 64GB capacity.. not of a huge deal imo09:09
psycho_oreosI rather a device that would behave, not lecture me09:09
thppsycho_oreos: not only that. the AMOLED screen is - say what you will about pentile - very nice in low-power mode (shows time + notifications while display is off)09:10
thppsycho_oreos: and the tactile feedback of the virtual keyboard is very good, even better than on the n950's virtual keyboard09:10
psycho_oreosthp, and you could probably carry on with the fact that n9 also comes with gorilla glass.. but the bottom line is that n9 does not want to behave the way you want it to.09:11
itsnotabigtruckbtw can the N9 'see' any of your guys' passports with nfc on09:11
itsnotabigtrucki saw that video of it popping up the nfc bar with a latvian passport09:11
thpitsnotabigtruck: it does show the blue "nfc" bar, but i can't read the passport's data09:11
itsnotabigtruckbut that doesn't work with my (us) passport09:11
thppsycho_oreos: depends on how you want it to behave?09:11
psycho_oreosthp, I never owned N950 (and I so wished I did) but again the bottom line is n9 does not behave.. its more of a misdemeanor child than N95009:11
psycho_oreosthp, like how N950 would behave or even better, N900?09:12
thpitsnotabigtruck: it has to have this logo on it: (to the right)09:12
itsnotabigtruckwell, might it be possible to transfer the n950's access policy to the n909:12
psycho_oreosI think NFC on n9 isn't capable of doing certain things. I recall prior to its release, the NFC on n9 was meant to be for doing simple stuff like pairing to a speaker or transferring some crap with angry birds09:13
psycho_oreosin theory..09:13
itsnotabigtruckaegis = smack (simplified mandatory access control kernel) + some userspace stuff, every mac framework gives some way to change the policy09:13
thppsycho_oreos: from the software PoV, afaik you can also open mode flash a n909:13
psycho_oreosyou still can't copy and paste various stuff with a rather restrictive keyboard on n909:13
itsnotabigtruck i think that open mode kernel is just SMACK bluntly removed from the stock one, right?09:13
psycho_oreosthp, open mode does not come without limitations09:13
itsnotabigtruck so no wonder stuff breaks09:13
jonniit doesnt break anything if you know what your doing09:14
psycho_oreosand I'm not talking about voiding warranty, lots of things that deals with aegis breaks09:14
itsnotabigtruckjonni: from what i read, every app that depends on aegis anything breaks09:14
itsnotabigtruckthere was some list on the meego forum but it included facebook, multimedia messaging, maps/drive, the certificate manager, and more09:14
itsnotabigtrucksure, some people use none of those09:14
jonniitsnotabigtruck: doesn't break if you flash openmode kernel without booting to secure mode09:14
psycho_oreosI've read a tmo thread where one recreates normal files and directories where aegis used to store its stash but he noted that it was a pain to recreate those every time he reboots09:15
jonniitsnotabigtruck: that broken list is only because people have booted to normal secure mode before flashing the open mode kernel -> users own fault09:15
itsnotabigtruckjonni: hmm, that's new to me - is there a thread about that?09:15
itsnotabigtruckand by "booted...before" you mean this has to be done right out of the box?09:16
itsnotabigtruckor is it possible to wipe it at the same time as installing the new kernel09:16
thppsycho_oreos: what are the things you want to do that aegis stops you from doing?09:16
jonniitsnotabigtruck: meaning that you run 2 flasher commands in a row without booting in between09:16
itsnotabigtruckjonni: ah ok09:17
psycho_oreosthp, things like sudo and dpkg-repack for starters. I somehow managed to get dmesg to work.. before I kept getting permission denied09:17
itsnotabigtruckso that means no-compromises "open mode"?09:17
itsnotabigtrucki still like the idea of having mandatory access control...09:18
itsnotabigtruckbut it's also a bit overkill having it on a phone09:18
psycho_oreosits not overkill on other platforms except aegis from what I can understand09:18
itsnotabigtruckpsycho_oreos: well, any mac system has complications...have you used SELinux before?09:18
jonniitsnotabigtruck: depends which kernel you flash, patched or nonpatched, you still get open mode aegis accesscontrol with nonpatched one09:18
psycho_oreositsnotabigtruck, yup09:18
itsnotabigtruckpsycho_oreos: so you know about role transitions and all that stuff, and how things like sudo won't work without special configuration09:19
itsnotabigtruckno idea how smack works but that kind of thing just comes with the territory09:19
thppsycho_oreos: there's devel-su. dmesg is no problem as you said09:19
psycho_oreositsnotabigtruck, well not without writing a policy to exempt it for instance yes09:20
psycho_oreosthp, devel-su with limited root privileges09:20
itsnotabigtruckwell, in the case of selinux you need all sorts of policy so it can do what it needs to do, but also you need to tell sudo to transition to the right role09:20
itsnotabigtruckbecause otherwise you end up with root's uid but the normal user's privilege09:21
itsnotabigtruckbecause sudo is all about conventional access control09:21
thppsycho_oreos: yes, that's true. but what privileges are you missing? chances are you can fix it with an aegis manifest in a .deb that you install09:21
psycho_oreosjonni, assuming one follows that thread link you have posted, would one still be able to access all the regular aegis controlled `apps' and maintain that constant access so long as he/she leaves the device in open mode?09:21
psycho_oreosthp, yes that's doable.. if I somehow could repack dpkg-dev for instance..09:21
jonnipsycho_oreos: afaik yes09:22
psycho_oreosand that's not even available through normal repositories, I had to enable harmattan-dev repository09:22
psycho_oreosjonni, not convincing..09:22
thppsycho_oreos: so what's the problem? enabling a repo isn't too hard ;)09:22
psycho_oreosthp, no.. it goes to show that n9 was not really meant for tinkerers without having to dig up first..09:23
thppsycho_oreos: i agree that it's not hassle-free, and aegis does get in the way, but there's usually a workaround09:23
psycho_oreosthp, yeah.. a more annoying workaround that on N950 one could have easily relaxed aegis without having to repack a deb09:24
jonnipsycho_oreos: only problem comes in firmware upgrades, since you cannot do ssu, so you need to reflash with 2 flasher commands and reinstall stuff.09:24
thppsycho_oreos: why would the situation on a n950 be any different?09:24
jonniyou can have relexaed aegis in N9 too, N950 is no different on that.09:25
psycho_oreos <-- precisely that.. try doing that on a real n909:25
thppsycho_oreos: you can do that on a real n9 too. it's the "restricted root" on both the n950 and n909:26
jonnipsycho_oreos: whats not working on real n9?09:26
itsnotabigtruckaegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec < is that what enabling dev mode from settings does, or something else09:26
psycho_oreosjonni, well I'm not too fussed on SSU stuff.. I'm already being stubborn by only maintaining the device to be pr1.0.. what concerns me more is the fact I want to have all the perks of a proper open security framework and have all the regular aegis enabled apps workiing09:26
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psycho_oreosno not dev mode but allows one to run other unsigned apps itsnotabigtruck09:26
thppsycho_oreos: but wouldn't that being like having your cake and eating it?09:26
psycho_oreosjonni, precisely what itsnotabigtruck just pointed09:27
psycho_oreosthp, no its the exact point of the reason why N950 would succeed here more than the n909:27
itsnotabigtruckpsycho_oreos: well, if i understand, you can load any kernel you want, but it causes the bootloader to switch encryption keys09:27
itsnotabigtruckso you have to wipe the phone and load the hacked kernel at the same time09:27
psycho_oreositsnotabigtruck, yeah which may render aegis enabled apps to not work09:27
itsnotabigtruckbut then, if you do that, a) aegis apps will work09:28
psycho_oreosit will work?09:28
itsnotabigtruckand b) you could hack your kernel any way you want, including the partial aegis setup09:28
itsnotabigtruckbecause that "open mode" kernel that the german guy did isn't the only non-standard kernel you can use09:28
thppsycho_oreos: still, i don't see the difference between n950 and n9 in that regard - and i'd like to be enlightened in case i missed something :)09:29
psycho_oreosyou meant DocScrutinizer's work? ;) or javispedro (iinm)09:29
psycho_oreosthp, try that command that itsnotabigtruck pasted earlier on with a n9 before assuming there's no difference in terms of hardware between the N950 and n909:30
psycho_oreosyou can't run that command simply because you have n9.. that's the bottom line09:30
psycho_oreoserr in terms of difference other than hardware aspects09:31
itsnotabigtruck well, whoever owns, right? not sure who that is, whois sez martin klaus09:31
thphmm i don't even have aegis-developer-mode09:31
psycho_oreositsnotabigtruck, I'm sure its DocScrutinizer, I recall he has pictures (he still does) of N900 being pulled apart.. it was linked to wmo (
jonniRM696-40-4_PR_001:~# aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec09:31
jonnipsycho_oreos: I can run that command just fine on my N9 PR1.109:31
jonniso I dont see whats this fuss is all about?09:32
psycho_oreosjonni, OMkernel?09:32
jonnipsycho_oreos: in normal secure mode09:32
psycho_oreos~ # aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec09:32
psycho_oreosError: Permission denied09:32
psycho_oreos/home/developer $ aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec09:33
psycho_oreosYou are not allowed to use this tool directly.09:33
psycho_oreospr1.0.. go figure09:33
thpin which package is aegis-developer-mode?09:33
jonnipr1.0 was more restictive, pr1.1 allowed dmesg and relaxed-exec09:33
psycho_oreosits within pr releasees09:33
jonniso people should really upgrade09:33
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: its within pr releases09:33
itsnotabigtruckpsycho_oreos: just give it up and upgrade your phone lol09:33
DocScrutinizeritsnotabigtruck: lrn2DNS09:34
psycho_oreositsnotabigtruck, I dunno.. its a gamble lol :þ09:34
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psycho_oreoso.O he's here09:34
thppsycho_oreos: ok, so on pr1.1, your problems should be solved? :)09:34
DocScrutinizerthe DOMAIN hosted by MAK doesn't mean the SERVER is his as well09:34
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: I'm *always* here09:35
itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: heh, anyway it's usually a strong indicator though :p09:35
psycho_oreosthp, and a gamble with no turning back.. still makes me confused as to why there's OMkernel for pr1.1.. not to say that OMkernel was only for pr1.1 but why specifically would they have OMkernel just for that cause? is it because its restrictive elsewhere?09:35
DocScrutinizernot for subdomains09:36
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, heh that's a bit of a surprise ._.09:36
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itsnotabigtruckDocScrutinizer: yeah but that's like saying there's no reason to believe i control soandso.itsnotabigtruck.tld just b/c i happen to have itsnotabigtruck.tld :p09:37
itsnotabigtruckanyway, i need some sleep, night guys09:37
thppsycho_oreos: well i don't force you to upgrade ;)09:37
psycho_oreosjonni, so with that command working perfectly on pr1.1 without OMkernel, you could for instance run the unsigned package called tar for instance? or even some of the dpkg-dev stuff?09:38
psycho_oreosthp, not that you would make much influence :þ09:38
psycho_oreosI'm still convinced that N950 is still superior elsewhere... for now09:39
thppsycho_oreos: yeah, its battery is easily exchangable - that's actually a big plus!09:41
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, can I please PM? :D09:41
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psycho_oreosthp, software aspects.. apart from the fact that I still have issues with vkb on n909:42
jonnipsycho_oreos: usually I run aegix-exec ./unsignedbinary   and that works just fine. And anyways my N9 can do anything in PR1.1 so I'm not the right man to answer :)09:42
psycho_oreosjonni, well that and working at nokia heh.. *sighs*09:44
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psycho_oreosand he's not here :D09:45
jonniwell there is that too, but my main N9 is normal CE device without any fancy certificates, and there are no restrictions.09:47
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psycho_oreosnot as per se but that ./unsignedbinary would be something that I suppose you wouldn't be offering to the rest of the community I bet :)09:48
jonnipsycho_oreos: that works out of the box in pr1.1, no changes done, just enabling developer mode.09:49
psycho_oreosjonni, I meant the binary itself lol09:50
psycho_oreosnot aegis-exec.. unsignedbinary09:50
psycho_oreosor is that meant to be a placeholder for whatever binary that's not signed in other words?09:50
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jonniaegix-exec ./tar   forexample would run unsinged tar binary, just for your usecase.09:51
* psycho_oreos thinks it would make sense if its the latter meaning09:51
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jonniit was meant to be [PlaceholderForPath]09:52
psycho_oreoswell in that case I have to have dpkg hacked to run tar through aegis-exec or as thp initially pointed out (and even itsnotabigtruck) that it would simply be better if I just write up a policy and repack it09:53
* DocScrutinizer thinks this doesn't apply for devel-su develsh though09:53
jonnipsycho_oreos: so you have something against busybox tar I presume or?09:55
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DocScrutinizerno wonder, it's retarded09:55
psycho_oreosjonni, dpkg-repack parses commands through to dpkg (you actually require dpkg-dev package) and that requires --format=gnu which busybox's tar does not offer and the standard GNU tar is not signed09:56
infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils09:56
jonnipsycho_oreos: whats the usecase that you are trying do with that command?09:57
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psycho_oreosjonni, repacking deb files like what I used to do with my N900 in case one day it stuffs up and I don't want to foot a massive download bill just to re-download each and every package that I want to have installed09:58
psycho_oreosthis was prior to backupmenu which was later available thanks hugely to robbiethe1st09:58
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jonnipsycho_oreos: but its just much easier just to copy the deb packages from filesystem? why would you want to repack :)09:59
psycho_oreosjonni, packages from ovi.. its no longer a repository like they used to do back in proper maemo days.. afaik it now goes through some oviclient crap10:00
psycho_oreosand there's no remnants of the deb file no matter how I try to hack it10:00
psycho_oreosI've tried the ugly hacks that I did with N900, N900 obeyed.. but n9 otoh doesn't10:01
jonnipsycho_oreos: there is a easy way to do that,  but it isnt posted on boards, since then people can distribute commercial deb packages more widely.10:01
psycho_oreosjonni, I've figured as much.. but its really annoying when one lives in a place where there's monthly quotas or otherwise one can welcome a nice huge bill from their ISP10:02
jonniI've copied most of my ovi download deb packages off the filesystem to backup10:02
psycho_oreosI'm still looking for a way.. but I guess for now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place10:02
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psycho_oreosI thought I sort of had it downpat.. guess I was wrong.. it really isn't obedient.. I'll have to go back to drawing boards and look for more holes to poke10:03
jonniand you dont even need to abuse any holes, since it really is on default linux location :)10:04
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DocScrutinizerfor an undefined short timespan?10:05
psycho_oreosit isn't on mine10:05
jonniand if you dont figure it out, you can always setup http proxy that gathers them for you.10:06
psycho_oreosmore reasons to loathe n910:06
* psycho_oreos now pokes through ovistoreclient via strings10:07
DocScrutinizerNokia Linux: "Let's see how we can pervert and abuse this FOSS stuff so thoroughly that nobody would even bother to try and tackle it, despite all expertise they might have gathered with Unix before"10:08
jonnithats the only 'copy protection' (protection by obscurity) for debian packages, it took only a week from release for my commercial application's deb to appear on forums, so the method is definetly out there.10:08
DocScrutinizerage old FAIL concept of "security by obscurity"10:09
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, reminds me of how novell mocked linux when it had to put `diapers' on windows10:09
psycho_oreosnow its not novell putting diapers on linux, its nokia10:09
jonniits not even obscurity, just stupid users that dont notice the obvious.10:09
psycho_oreosdoubt it10:10
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DocScrutinizerjonni: I think you notice the irony in all that - when the "security" stops honest users from doing their legitimate tasks (due to obscurity) while "the method is out there, you're just not rogue and evil enough to find it on WAREZ forums"10:12
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jonniyep its always a grey area, since if legitimate task can be used for evil, then the task comes evil too.10:16
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
psycho_oreossecurity through obscurity.. that's aegis for you and no matter what you think of it, the answer always comes back to this:
DocScrutinizerjonni: "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns" - never applied as much as here10:18
djszapiheh, the "good" old type of discussions, this time not with me ;-)10:18
jonniyou wont post instructions how to use TPB for downloading ubuntu.iso just because same instructions can be used for evil.10:19
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DocScrutinizerwell, the difference is: you DON'T NEED TPB for downloading ubuntu.iso10:20
DocScrutinizerand those you want to stop from doing rogue never needed your howto anyway10:21
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DocScrutinizerso what's the use in implementing fsckdup "security" that only pesters honest but not extremely experienced users10:22
jonniDocScrutinizer: well you dont need instructions how to hack ovi either, since all those debian packages are available on random evil forums too10:22
DocScrutinizerwhile the WAREZ kids die from laughing10:22
psycho_oreoscompanies are obsessed with IP rights, they brag it by putting excessive security on it that even stops the good people doing legitimate things.. and you wonder why people eventually turn around and become evil because of all this.. look who fuelled greed initially10:23
DocScrutinizerso Nokia suggests "go to WAREZ sites, as we messed Linux up in a way only WAREZ kids will be able to make backups - sorry customer we had to do this because... WHAT?"10:23
jonniand as most of the people have either unlimited dataplans or access to wifi, its not even needed10:23
psycho_oreosthat's a bad oversight.. what if people don't want to waste their time and bandwidth to redo it all over again for instance?10:24
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jonniDocScrutinizer: no, doesnt suggest that, nobody should take backups of packages can be outdated quite fast, as you can have a backup of debian package which has a fatal bug forexample that bricks the device, and when forcing to redownload from ovi you always get the latest one. But yes you waste time&bandwith, but thats life.10:26
jonnibut how often you need to reinstall your device anyways10:26
psycho_oreosit was easy to brick N900 when you're tinkering10:27
DocScrutinizeranother question: how often breaks, or simply vanishes, internet linked infra - due to servers down, or simply discontinued10:27
psycho_oreosor even enabling devel-packages just because you wanted to have a feature but run the risk of running a beta software.. or even alpha10:27
DocScrutinizerhow ofzten are you in areas where you TF can't get ANY internet connectivity10:28
DocScrutinizerseriously I I'd want that concept, I'd buy a crackberry10:28
DocScrutinizerhell, I rather *print out a paper copy* of an important wiki page, rather than relying on it being there next week still10:30
DocScrutinizerguess my attitude towards "internet as backup medium"10:30
DocScrutinizerfor software I might even have paid for10:30
psycho_oreosthat was a big highlight back in N900 days, where some of the owners who legitimately paid apps cannot redownload them again10:32
DocScrutinizerthe concept is turning the business model of owning software from "lifetime usage of this SW pkg as is" to "maybe you can use it, and max as long as WE (the company) stay in business and are nice to you"10:32
DocScrutinizerI'm NOT leasing the SW for an unspecified period of time to use it, while paying full price10:34
DocScrutinizerI *OWN* it when I paid for it10:34
jonnipsycho_oreos: but anyways if your really wanting to tinkering device you can install open mode, and edit pkgmgr not to delete the packages after installing, or just google around for instructions, not that hard to find.10:34
DocScrutinizerthat'S sth Nokia never wrapped theirt head around10:34
DocScrutinizerpsycho_oreos: or you do >> while true; do cp $some-location-where-dpk-appears-for-a-momemt /myBackupLocation; done <<10:36
DocScrutinizernot quite obvious to "normal" users, but simple enough for script kiddies to die from laughing about that "security by obscurity"10:37
psycho_oreosjonni, I think I have that sort of working to an extent.. I've even set it to download to a specific location10:37
DocScrutinizercya fellas10:37
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, nasty hack.. reminds me of something similar that I did when I had my N900 which became a huge pebkac just because I got desperate10:37
jonniand ovi store is not that different from other app stores, some of them forces you to reinstall through itunes, some with their own store app. Come to think of it, is there any phone platform our there which gives you the install packages for you for commercial apps, instead of forcing reinstall through the store?10:39
DocScrutinizerYES, winmobile6. E.G route6610:40
DocScrutinizerdongled to IMEI, freely backup-able and copy-able10:41
jonniand how many winmobile6 users are out there? :)10:41
DocScrutinizerthey even offer "install to uSD"10:41
DocScrutinizerhow many HARM users are out there?10:42
jonniheh, cannot comment on that.10:42
DocScrutinizerthought as much, so the question was rhetorical10:42
DocScrutinizerSamsung OMNIA came with winmob610:43
DocScrutinizernot exactly a shelf buster10:43
DocScrutinizera lot of other brands sold that crap OS as well on their mobile devices10:44
jonnibut in real life if people buy new device its iPhone/Android/Nokia/[maybe something else] and for those stores almost all behave the same.10:44
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infobotjust checking if it's fixed on ssu channel10:46
* DocScrutinizer kickbans estel off the internets10:46
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djszapiN950faenil o/11:12
faenilo/ djszapi11:12
djszapiN950Were you able to solve your qml graphics issue that you posted here?11:14
faenilwe had a brainstorming meeting this morning11:16
faeniland I have to try some things11:16
faenilI'm experiencing another issue11:16
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auenfbah, stupid pulseaudio sucking 7% cpu when idle11:17
faenilI have a PinchArea, call a C++ function from onPinchUpdated11:17
djszapiN950faenil issue man :p11:17
faenilin that c++ fun I call QDateTime::currentMsSinceEpoch()11:17
faeniland with that time11:18
faenilI make the delta11:18
faenildeltaTime from one pinchupdated event to the older one11:18
faenilproblem is, most of the times the deltaTime is 1 or 2 milliseconds!11:18
faenilI mean, wtf? :D11:18
faenilthat's not normal...11:19
jonniwhat values do you expect it to be?11:19
faenilthey're incoherent with the deltaTranslation I calculate in the same function11:19
faenil(I'm trying to get the Speed attribute in the PinchArea, which does not provide it)11:20
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jonniif you want faster resolution then you should read the raw touch events and calculate it from those events most likely.11:30
jonnihavent looked at driver level lately but if I remember right it reads input events at the device driver level at 100 or 120 Hz.11:33
jonniso you should be able to get deltatimes that are under 1 milliseconds.11:34
djszapiN950i think that is not possible11:37
djszapiN950i made a raw device access in gluon input to get faster feedback for the game players, but it was above couple of milliseconda11:38
djszapiN950note, you do not probably credential for that either on harmattan11:38
djszapiN950even have*11:38
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jonniI dont mean that you would see it faster on the screen if you change your finger movement on different direction, for that the triple buffering ensures that 3*16ms takes atleast 48ms before you see it on screen, I just mean that if you read Qt's raw touch events you can get them under 1 milliseconds, but if you try to get it through qml most likely you dont, since there is some filtering done.11:40
djszapiN950as I said, it is highly unlike11:41
djszapiN950even raw dev access is slower11:41
jonnijust was saying that daenils 1-2ms sounds normal, so thats why I was wondering what values he was expecting to see.11:42
jonnifeanils even11:42
jonnior maybe he was expecting them to come slower, like once in every 16ms, ie once per frame?11:43
jonnifor that you need to do your own filtering to get rid of the extra events11:44
faenilproblem is11:45
faenilin the same c++ fun I get the translation from the last event...11:46
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faeniland the resulting speed11:48
faenilis way too high11:48
faenilit's incoherent11:48
admiral0hello people11:49
faenilhello admiral011:49
admiral0my patch to kde-workspace is almost in :D11:49
jonniwell its a feature / normal that 1-2ms resolution the results sometimes are very high, thats why they usually calculate the average on longer timeperiods11:49
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djszapiN950admiral0, could you paste the rb number ?11:50
jonnifaenil: most likely you would be better of not using pincharea if you want to calculate velocity, but doing your own multitouch qml handler and calculcate in there, like
admiral0fixing and resubmitting. dario is a cool guy11:51
faeniljonni: thanks, I'll look into that ;)11:52
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djszapiN950admiral0, yes, drf__ is :)11:54
faeniljonni: still, I don't see why I'm having such problems :)11:54
admiral0djszapiN950: i drank a beer with him and talked about this patch. i love oss community :)11:55
djszapiN950admiral0, come to fosdem ?11:55
jonnifaenil: that velocity calculation is a tricky business and most likely thats why its missing in the api, on other areas like flickable then calculation also has some internal filtering, average counting etc so avoid those unrealistic fast movements.11:55
admiral0djszapiN950: i'm having exams and i'm a poor student11:56
jonniie you need to use easing curves etc11:56
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admiral0when i'll have time+money i'd like to come to desktop summit as chakra dev11:56
faeniljonni: but the strange thing is 90/100 deltaTimes are < 2ms...11:58
faenilthat's not filtering, that's throwing away everything :D11:58
faenilI guess they don't have the same issue...11:58
* jreznik is coming to fosdem, want to hear djszapiN950 talk :)11:58
faenilthere could be something weird with the Qt port on Android11:58
faenildjszapi: u having a talk? wow :)11:59
pawky_Trying to use internet radio, it works very nicely over Wifi, but not when using 3g. Though connecting to the server using telnet works fine... would anybody have a clue how this can be?11:59
admiral0will there be videos? so i can follow?11:59
faenildjszapi: congrats :)12:00
jreznikpawky_: qtmmkit is shit, I gave up to create anything that works with it's streaming incapatibilities :( I know it does not help you, just complaining :D12:01
jreznik(and gstreamer under it has to be crippled some way too... )12:01
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admiral0item review passed :)12:09
admiral0QA review pending12:10
djszapicongrats :)12:10
admiral0let's hope i get enough money to change laptop battery12:10
admiral0then i'll release it as oss :)12:10
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djszapiadmiral0: do you also work on chakra ? I gave a talk about chakra at some time in the past at akademy :)12:12
admiral0i work on tribe12:12
admiral0i'm the one responsible for it actually12:12
MohammadAGNaw crap12:12
admiral0at least for the udisks new platform12:13
MohammadAGN950 fell on its screen, some deep scratches in the bottom area12:13
admiral0MohammadAG: patpat12:13
dm8tbrbtw: my N950 had a black spot in the display after it bumped hard on the floor. It self-healed over the course of a few weeks!12:17
dm8tbr(first it was growing though12:17
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faenilhey guys12:23
faenilis there QPanGesturePrivate source?12:24
faenilI can't find it...12:24
faenilnot on gitorious at least12:24
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djszapifaenil: fetch the qt gui source code and grep12:26
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faenildoing just that atm...12:26
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SpeedEvildm8tbr: interesting12:27
faenildjszapi: not found, only found in headers, and used in cpp12:28
faenilbut definition is not there in qt sources12:28
djszapilook at better.12:29
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faenildjszapi: are you saying so because you know the answer? or just because you don't trust me? :D12:30
faenilthere are #include "private/ dfjsdfj"12:31
faenilbut there's not private dir in there12:31
djszapinone of them, but that is the process. No way, it is not defined, but used. You are basically claiming that tons of million qt user are wrong :D12:31
faenildjszapi: found :D12:33
djszapiyes, of course.12:34
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faenilis there a way to get the timestamp of when an even is generated?13:13
faenilis it offered by Qt or should I make that myself?13:13
faenilQEvent doesn't seem to offer anything about its generation time13:13
djszapiMNotification does afaik.13:14
faenilqt side13:15
djszapipure qt question can go to #qt ;-)13:16
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djszapibut it definitely does not have timeStamp() method as the MNotification does.13:17
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pawky_djszapi: maybe the internet radio over 3g is an aegis problem?... :-)14:37
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djszapipawky_: what is the problem with internet radio over 3g ?14:41
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pawky_djszapi... like, it doesn't work... of some unkown reason. Wifi does, but 3g not.. even though I could reach the servers and port using telnet14:46
djszapiI am sorry, but I cannot help without further information.14:47
pawky_djszapi: what do you want to know?14:47
pawky_install one of the internet radio apps... try with wifi, then try with 3g14:48
djszapiI am not interested in internet radio installation, sorry :p14:48
pawky_djszapi: fair enough, but its not about the radio, its about why this communication fails no matter the software used...14:48
jonnimight be that your tried to listen to streams that has bitrates that 3g does not support14:49
pawky_jonni:ok.... like?14:49
pawky_they are just simple ones like 96k 128k etc...14:49
djszapion a side note: "it does not work" is a poor information14:50
pawky_and my subscription gives me beyond >1 mbit14:50
jonnidepends on network speedlimits, or if it reams to 2.5g or 2g those are too big14:50
djszapiwhat does not precisely work, what is in the syslog, on console and so on ?14:50
jonniroams even14:50
pawky_can you figure out a way to debug it and confirm this?14:51
djszapiI will not debug your bug, sorry :) It should be your turn ;)14:51
jonniquite many people have the cheapest unlimited 3g sims that are usually limited to 128k download speed, so they usually fail when trying to download 96-128kb streams14:51
pawky_my idea to try out later on tonight, is to turn the unit into a hotspot and try it using a linux machine..14:51
jonnimaybe use wget & curl through the 3g network and fetch some big files and see what kind of speeds you get14:52
pawky_jonni:oh, ok... never heard of the limitation being in the SIM, but thats an interesting idea. I believe running some test as a hot spot might clear things a bit... right?14:52
djszapia simple website measuring that does the trick..14:52
pawky_jonni: will do... (and sorry about that paging earlier)14:53
jonnipawky_: atleast in finland its quite common that there is speed limitation depending on your contract14:53
djszapiit is not the limitation of the sim, but the speed.14:53
pawky_there should not be any problems with the speed per see from my provider... but I will check it later on tonight.. :-)14:53
jonni(usually you get limited sims 10e/month, and unlimited 30+e/month)14:54
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pawky_could a provider do some awkward rate limiting towards internet radio streaming?14:54
djszapipawky_: works here oob14:54
pawky_you are listening at best?14:54
djszapiI installed for your sake, and it has no issues here with 3g...14:54
pawky_its odd... If i will find out its the provider they will surely hear from me as I pay tons of money for having true flatrate..14:55
pawky_djszapi: what app? what station?14:55
jonnipawky_: world is full of all kind of providers, so better test with wget/curl, Im listening spotify 256kbits just fine though my 3g, but then again I dont have speedlimits.14:55
djszapijust open up a website measuring this. It is not that hard...14:55
pawky_jonni: will do :-)14:55
djszapiI do not understand the "what app?" question since we discussed a definite application mentioned above..14:56
pawky_djszapi: well.. It could also be a specific app problem, thats why I wondered, to have a reference of what should work...14:57
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djszapisince we discussed Internet Radio, it is surprisingly Internet Radio...14:58
pawky_djszapi, yes.. but it MIGHT also be the specific app...14:58
djszapiI am unsure how to make it clear the app is called "Internet Radio". I have tried to write it more times, maybe someone else might be able to tell it better...14:59
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djszapialso, for future reference, please try to provide clear steps for reproducing a bug, not just some internet radio operation without mentioning even a specific application...15:00
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trxis there a package somewhere that can provide gstreamer tools such as gst-launch ?15:20
djszapigstreamer tools package15:21
trxthank you15:22
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Corsacinteresting, now the music player just doesn't want to play16:17
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admiral0Corsac: try to bribe it16:19
Corsachmhm, qmafw-dbus-wrapper using all the cpu16:19
admiral0kill it with fire or reboot16:20
Corsacwell, I'm not sure it'll do any good, I just started music player for the first time since quite a while, and it's more or less a fresh start16:20
Corsacbut I'm pretty sure it's yet again a tracker issue16:21
admiral0could be16:23
Corsacfresh boot, now music player says “updating library” …16:25
Corsacand still broken after that16:29
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pawky_djszapi: LOL... got your point regarding Internet Radio... ;-)16:41
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DrGrovCorsac: May I ask that what happened that the music player is not wanting to play? Your N9 is a out-of-the-box N9 or a customized one?16:59
CorsacDrGrov: in the end it accepted to play17:00
Corsacafter a not so short time17:00
DrGrovCorsac: Ok, so it was just building your library?17:01
Corsacnot sure17:01
Corsacwell, the library is long built17:01
DrGrovHave you done some tweaking on the system?17:01
Corsacit spent some time at “updating library”, but then sits idle (well, the the qmafw process using cpu), then music started17:02
Corsacafter few minutes17:02
Corsacdepends on what you mean by tweaking17:02
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DrGrovI mean that is your N9 like it was out-of-the-box?17:02
Corsacnot really17:02
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DrGrovOk, that is what I wanted to know. That should then not happen on a out-of-the-box N9?17:03
CorsacI hope note17:03
DrGrovOk, good.17:03
Corsacbut that shouldn't happen on a non-out-of-the-box N9 either17:03
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DrGrovOf course not, that should definitely not be able to happen anyhow/anywhere17:03
djszapiHi! Are there tricks for having a background image for an application, and it still works nicely in both orientation (landscape and portrait) ? I guess accomodating two various images according to the orientation is a bit hacky, might slow down the application a little bit, plus not sure it can be done programatically.17:03
DrGrovCorsac: I just wondered also since I have not tweaked my N9 anything yet. Just enabled devel mode to get terminal for contacts importing but that is fixed.17:04
DrGrovSo I know what to except IF I start tweaking and fooling around :)17:04
DrGrovBut it seems like the best thing is to wait until more experienced N9/N950 users tweak first and then after try it once it is "safe" for end users17:06
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djszapijonni: thanks, that really looks cool! I wonder what the most feasible resolution for landscape. I guess 800x480 can work for landscape (or maybe a bit less because of the margins).17:30
djszapiI think the gallery application is a good example for creepy situations because if you have pictures taken, and you are actually looking at them, it is creepy in portrait mode and fills the area in percetly in landscape mode. Thereby, you basically see the image in a very small resolution in portrait mode.17:34
DrGrovWhat did someone say about getting a "!" mark if dev mode is enabled on startup? Is it safe to have dev mode enabled on the N9 so that I can just have access to the terminal?17:42
djszapinot that safe like the average user mode for sure.17:44
djszapibut at least not completely open to any hack  like the normal unix systems.17:44
itsnotabigtruckDrGrov: safe enough, and i don't think the ! appears on PR1.1 in dev mode17:45
itsnotabigtruckit did, apparently, on PR1.017:45
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admiral0Jare: ping17:52
djszapiwhat is this '!' mark you were talking about ? What is it precisely referring to ?17:56
DrGrovSo it is ok to keep dev mode on so I can have the terminal close by if need later? Or should I switch dev mode off and enable it only when I need the terminal?17:57
DrGrovI am not going into the Security - Dev Mode and enabling anything or so. Just thought if I can have the terminal close by without problems.17:58
SpeedEvilEnabling devmode and not screwing with stuff should have no risk17:59
DrGrovSpeedEvil: And by saying "not screwing with stuff" is specifically going into Security -> ... ?18:00
djszapiDrGrov: I recommend you not install any application from outside in developer mode.18:00
djszapikeep using Ovi.18:00
SpeedEvilediting any config files18:00
DrGrovdjszapi: Ok, I will not install anything. If I install I use the regular Store icon to get what I need if there is any. I do not have the "Allow 3rd party sources..." enabled.18:01
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DrGrovSpeedEvil: Ok, of course I stay away from config files. I just wanted to get terminal if I need something with the contacts again at some point.18:01
djszapigood because I could rule your device, even if I can do that without developer mode, too.18:01
DrGrovdjszapi: I think not but sure. Let us say so ;-)18:02
DrGrovdjszapi: But yes, of course you could if I install a .deb package that you created with malware :/18:02
djszapitrust me, I can :p18:02
djszapiso do not install any third-party apps imho, and then you are fine.18:02
DrGrovYeah, I stay away from those. How about using apps from which seems trustworthy?18:03
djszapi(whereas, I would recommend the same for average user mode, too)18:03
djszapitrustworthy ? Show me the QA process :)18:03
DrGrovOk, so I have the same basically as average user mode except that I just get the terminal? That is what you are saying?18:03
djszapishow me the tool of the QA tools :)18:04
djszapiDrGrov: no18:04 only links to sources18:04
DrGrovWhy would I do that since I do not run that site?18:04
djszapiif you cannot prove a proper QA process, how could you trust them ?18:04
DrGrovI just found it a few nights ago when I was reading talk.maemo.org18:04
DrGrovBut nevermind, I will only use the Store.18:05
djszapiback to your previous question: I meant to say that one does not need to be that smart to rule your device in developer mode than in average user mode.18:05
DrGrovSo should I turn off dev mode or not? Still not getting a straight answer it seems :D18:05
djszapidepends on how often you use the terminal.18:06
DrGrovI only use the terminal perhaps once per month or so.18:06
jreznikn9-apps is just catalogue that points to ovi store (most of times)...18:07
DrGrovWhen I enabled dev mode it asked me to download stuff and I did. Then before it rebooted some options showed up but after that I did not go back in and did some more installations. I should stay away from them yes?18:07
djszapiwhy not enable the developer mode once per month ?18:07
DrGrovWell yes, that is actually better I must agree on. Just enabling it when I need it.18:07
djszapiif you need it every single day, or even second. I would enable it.18:08
DrGrovIf I turn off dev mode, do I need to do a reboot?18:08
djszapibut in this special case, it is better to switch on when needed.18:08
DrGrovIf I turn off dev mode, do I need to do a reboot?18:08
djszapiDrGrov: nope, it is Linux :DDDD18:08
DrGrovGood :)18:08
djszapiit is not Windows....18:08
DrGrovI will do as you said then and enable dev mode only when I need it.18:08
djszapithough, I wonder what will happen with a running terminal application. You could test it ?18:09
DrGrovThanks for clarifying that for me djszapi18:09
jreznikdjszapi: yep, nice thing on n9 - you don't have to reboot when you insert/remove sim... symbian and wp 7 are...18:09
DrGrovNot need, it is ok. I just close all my apps every time I have used them so :)18:09
DrGrovI seldomly use the multitasking :) But I do use it when I feel like it18:10
DrGrovThe beauty of multitasking, it works so well on the N918:10
djszapiyeah, and it also works on Lumia 800, but not intuitive enough imo.18:10
djszapi(long back button press)18:10
admiral0what's all this fuss about disabling dev mode?18:11
djszapiDrGrov: btw, It seems I was confused (wrong) about the above page, if it is not apps4meego, it is okay.18:11
DrGrovI will turn off dev mode now then when I turn off the phone at the same time18:11
djszapiand not any other community stuff, just the official Ovi store.18:11
* gri would not even trust the official Ovi store since you can put anything inside your package and they won't check it18:12
djszapiso you install only your own apps ? :)18:12
djszapiand claiming you know everything, and you cannot make mistakes ? :)18:12
griyep, I use my own application most of the time :P18:12
DrGrovWell I am off. Thanks for the help djszapi :)18:13
djszapiI have never said Ovi is trustworthy, sadly, just maybe the most work is done in there.18:13
DrGrovI will turn off the phone later on but remember to turn off dev mode then.18:13
DrGrovNah, sorry. I did not need to turn off the phone even LOL18:13
* RST38h yawns18:13
bindiwhy can't I share stuff between my galaxy nexus and my friends nokia N9 using NFC?18:14
npmWell at least the ovi store isn't full of free apps that spam your contacts with adds, like on the lumia...18:19
admiral0meego > wp718:19
grior we can't find them in the flood of feed apps18:20
npmor a google voice app that adds a mailfilter that sends all your missed calls to an untrusted 3rd party site18:20
npmor ...18:20
admiral0gri: that's the apple store18:20
griadmiral0: ovi is not better18:20
grisearch for "sms" on your phone: It will show you unrated feed apps before it does show you good rated real applications (wonder if they really sort)18:21
admiral0mine is still under review18:21
grimy update, too :)18:21
admiral0i have onw more app in the works18:22
djszapithe problem is basically that it is really hard to make a very well functioning appstore. It is a huge amount of work.18:22
grione is pretty enough work for me :)18:22
* admiral0 is greedy18:23
gridjszapi: the ubuntu store is now better than the ovi one (my opinion)18:23
RST38hCydia manages somehow18:23
SpeedEvilThe scary part is that you actually have to say 'no'.18:23
SpeedEvilAnd not on technical issues.18:23
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SpeedEvilFor example, the thousands of RSS apps.18:23
SpeedEvil99.9999% should not have got through QA18:23
SpeedEvilThough they may meet all the technical requirements18:24
* RST38h suspects the management to be the worst problem with app stores18:24
RST38hUnlike the OS kernel or the UI stack, app store is something every business major thinks he "knows"18:24
djszapigri: please do not talk to me about Ubuntu, thanks ;)18:24
RST38hSo they "drive the implementation process", or whatever pestering people doing actual work is called18:25
GeneralAntillesManagers are killing Nokia18:27
RST38hGeneral: 3/4 words are wrong18:27
SpeedEvilThings are tense at nokia.18:31
admiral0djszapi: why not talk about ubuntu18:31
SpeedEvil(though seriously - I hope they turn it rouind)18:31
RST38hSpeed: Not if they continue with this madness18:31
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RST38hSpeed: You do understand that there are more *useful* apps in Harmattan app store than in WP7's?18:32
SpeedEvilI haven't looked at the wp7 store yet - I keep menaing to, but things are getting in the way.18:32
SpeedEvilAnd you've gotta be kidding.18:33
* SpeedEvil sighs.18:33
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SpeedEvilIf I was microsoft, I'd be picking some devs that have made reasonable quality apps, and offering each 10K to port their app to the phone.18:34
SpeedEvilMaybe more for really nice apps.18:34
SpeedEvilIf you've got the scale - spraying phones around the 'community' - who have little investment in the phone may be a very poor way of getting dev work done.18:35
SpeedEvilAt least for the core bootstrap.18:35
RST38hSpeed: No, I am not kidding18:36
RST38hSpeed: There is no Opera.No Fennec. No Need For Speed. No Galaxy On Fire. No Monopoly. No EA games in general.18:36
RST38hSpeed: No bookreader.18:36
RST38hSpeed: No videoplayers (the builtin one only does wmv)18:37
GeneralAntillesWhat would I do without FBReader.18:37
AardSpeedEvil: well, at least you get people to turn on a windows phone at least once this way...18:37
RST38hSpeed: there are Angry Birds, but only paid version18:37
SpeedEvilI guess it is +1 on the 'users of wp7' graph18:37
GeneralAntillesExpensive way to get people to turn on a phone.18:37
SpeedEvilAnd you could probably fake it into the sales figures somehow.18:37
RST38hThe "community" is busy breaking Lumia at the moment.18:38
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RST38hEspecially considering that Nokia has [mis?]fortune of giving these phones to a bunch of very resourceful OSS Windows-haters with a hell of an itch.18:39
* Aard didn't get one. does win phone support ota updates now, or do you still need to have a windows pc?18:39
RST38hAard:Who knows? They have not updated it yet.18:39
RST38hSpeed: Ah, have I forgotten that the only web browser there is IE, and it has not changed much since WinMo? =)18:40
Aardthe ie team has been busy making people not use ie6 on desktops anymore18:40
SpeedEvilhave anti-vendor ports ever taken off?18:41
SpeedEvilon any hardware?18:41
RST38hCyanogen,but nothing else18:41
SpeedEvilAs in - most users buy the hardware to wipe it18:41
AardSpeedEvil: on phone, or generally?18:41
RST38hdoes jailbroken iPhone qualify?18:41
SpeedEvilRST38h: Not really18:42
SpeedEvilhmm - openwrt might be closest, I guess.18:42
SpeedEvilFor some models of router.18:42
Aardthough it has been pretty useless for many years now18:42
Aardand on the linksys wrt they still mess around with kernel 2.4. I go to the morgue if I want to play with something like that18:43
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SpeedEvilcat /proc/version18:45
SpeedEvilLinux version 2.4.17_mvl21-malta-mips_fp_le (root@rhl) (gcc version 2.95.3 20010315 (release/MontaVista)) #5 Áù 3ÔÂ 4 13:37:03 CST 200618:45
SpeedEvilthis box is probably getting replaced by a raspberry pi18:45
SpeedEvilLinux version (root@localhost.localdomain) (gcc version 3.4.2) #1 Tue May 29 18:31:23 CST 200718:46
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SpeedEvilThis one is irreplacable as a firmware bug means I can't replace it.18:46
SpeedEvilBecause I rely on the bug.18:46
SpeedEvilADSL has a specified 'margin' - this is the amount of leeway for noise the exchange tells your modem to negotiate for.18:47
Aardah. currently don't have to mess with that -- FTTB18:48
SpeedEvilSometimes, for no reason I can track down, or fix, the exchange requests that I leave enough margin to drop my connection to 512K or so (from 4M)18:48
arceanDid you saw that?
SpeedEvilNow, the adsl driver on the router is designed so you can request _more_ margin - by doing adsl set snr 100 - for example. But it has a comedy bug, where adsl set snr 65500 sets it to -34 - less than the exchange wants18:49
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admiral0arcean: just saw it18:55
admiral0i'm out18:55
admiral0i have the n918:55
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artemmaHarmattan's QML components list RadioButton and docs tell that it got to be a part of RadioGroup, but.. there's no info about a RadioGroup :/19:05
artemmaAnybody here used RadioButtons?19:05
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itsnotabigtruckaww crap, it's only for the illuminati again19:09
itsnotabigtruck(the 1.2 preview)19:09
jonnidjszapi: 854x48019:09
admiral0artemma: wait19:10
artemmaadmiral0: waiting :)19:11
artemmaexperiementing with RadioGroup, CheckableGroup and google meanwhile19:11
artemmawithout success so far19:11
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admiral0artemma: hmm19:12
admiral0try to put all radiobuttons in an Item19:12
admiral0that should work19:13
admiral0i hope :)19:13
artemmasource code seems to suggest that radiobuttons differs from checkbox only in style19:13
admiral0put it in an item19:13
artemmathough maybe qt creator navigates to dresktop comps via Qt.labs.components19:13
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benares_98is there a difference between the functions mod and div?19:16
benares_98sorry wrong channel19:16
artemmaadmiral0: draws buttons well, but no exclusivity19:16
artemmaI made one unchecked by default, another one checked. Only thing I'm able to do is to check the originally unchecked one19:17
artemmaeven unchecking it back doesn't work19:17
artemmathere should be some sort of grouping property, shouldn't there?19:18
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DrGrovHow do I set up a custom ringtone on the N9? I go into Settings -> Sound & Vibration -> Ringtone -> Select from my music but it shows only so few. Got several hundred of songs there but I can only choose from a selected few.19:19
admiral0artemma: yep19:19
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DrGrovAnd I mean to have the custom ringtone as a standard ringtone. I do not use custom ringtones for contacts19:19
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DrGrov*several hundred of songs on the phone19:20
jonnimost likely ringtones are not allowed to be under mass-storage partition, since that can be unmounter and it woudnt be ringing.19:21
jonniunounted even19:21
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admiral0artemma: checking source19:22
artemmaadmiral0: I guess it's somewhere on the github?19:22
DrGrovjonni: Do you know what you are saying now even?19:22
jonniDrGrov: usually I do :)19:22
artemmaadmiral0: I can read the code, but always have problems figuring out which place to look at. If you point me to harmattan comps sources, I may be able to help myself19:23
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artemmachecking docs..19:23
DrGrovjonni: If I select a ringtone that is located in /home/user/MyDocs/Music root directory it will be converted into .wav file which is not stored on the mass storage partition. This I know since me and DocScrutinizer had this discussion earlier.19:23
artemmaoh, so button column becomes a radio group if radio buttons are used inside? interesting19:24
artemmaoh actually it's ButtonColumn that defines exclusivity19:24
artemmaRadioButton has only radio picture19:24
DrGrovNow I just need to know how to find the other music I have and being able to set it as a ringtone. Could it be that sub-folders within /home/user/MyDocs/Music interfers with this and does not recognize them when I try to select from Settings -> Sound & Vibration -> Ringtone -> Select from Own Music.19:24
DrGrovjonni: Good that you know since I need some assistance with this :)19:25
DrGrovMaybe I could set up from the Music app once I select the song I want? Nobody has done this before? :(19:25
admiral0how can i get rid of ovi music?19:26
DrGrovBut apparently I could choose the ones I want when they are located in /home/user/MyDocs/Music root directory. Interesting, should be some way to select a custom ringtone from some other location...19:27
artemmaadmiral0: works very well, thx!19:27
DrGrovWell, gotta read the "manual" then apparently :D19:27
admiral0you're welcome19:27
DrGrovIs the N9 manual available online as well or only on the phone?19:28
DrGrovjonni: You got the N9 or N950?19:28
jonniDrGrov: three N9's and three N950's ;-)19:30
DrGrovjonni: Cool ;-)19:30
jonnifor different PR releases19:30
* DrGrov is away from keyboard messing with the N9 and selecting ringtone19:30
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TSCHAKI know, off topic, but has nokia started shipping over the Lumia 800s that they offered to the N950 users?19:33
TSCHAKThey offered, I signed up for the hell of it, and that was the last I heard of it :P19:34
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artemmaTSCHAK: I've got my Lumia 800 around Dec 2519:41
TSCHAKhow long was the wait?19:41
artemmasomething like 3 days from the mail where they told it's being shipped19:42
artemmabut I live in Finland19:42
artemmaso it's local mail19:42
TSCHAKhahaha ok19:42
* TSCHAK isn't that close19:42
TSCHAKI sent in my order on the 28th Dec19:42
TSCHAKthey said they would mail when it was shipped19:43
TSCHAKhaven't heard since.19:43
* TSCHAK will contact DDP19:43
TSCHAKnormally wouldn't care, but I want to see the device that Nokia abandoned the N9 for...19:43
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* artemma is thinking whether he needs his Lumia 800 at all. N9 is at least fun to work with, Lumia could make some biz sense if it could hope for some market share only19:44
TSCHAKit just doesn't make sense really... none of it does.19:44
* TSCHAK loves his N950.19:45
admiral0artemma: how's the lumia 80?19:48
artemmaoh well, it's not bad, some things I like even more than N9 (e.g. text input in web pages actually does work)19:49
artemmajust nothing revolutionary and I like N9 more19:49
artemmalet's say be it a choice between Lumia and e.g. iPhone or top galaxy s, choice would be very clear19:50
artemmathough maybe it's different for ppl who do gaming, I've heard xbox thing there isn't bad19:50
artemmaand there are some things particularly annoying for me. The top one was inability to set SMS sound differently from other chat sounds. I do not want to react to facebook chat with the same speed as to sms19:51
TSCHAKi find those oversized tiles a wee bit annoying19:52
artemmaand something else annoying with sounds. something like music volume and ringer share same volume setting, so if you listened to not very loud music, you won\t hear a phone call if u forgot to restore the volume setting19:52
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artemmato be honest I find the titles nearly useless19:52
artemmathey look cool and bring you five minutes of fun, but that's it19:53
artemmaask me again in a few weeks19:53
admiral0i hate tiles19:53
artemmaI played with Lumia for just a few days before leaving for holidays19:53
artemmareturned yesterday19:53
admiral0they occupy middle of the screen19:53
artemmaI'll probably try Lumia as a primary phone for a week or so19:54
artemmawhat I do love abt Lumia is their photos app19:54
artemmasynced my facebook albums automagically19:54
artemmathat's something to be improved in harmattan19:54
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Sazpaimonso 2 hours ago my N9 was reporting "battery low"20:15
Sazpaimoni check my phone now and the battery is at 40%20:15
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itsnotabigtruckso...what's the "big scary warning" mentioned in that tmo thread about open mode20:27
itsnotabigtruckwhoops, there it is
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itsnotabigtruckhey Rantwolf20:29
Rantwolfis it possible to disable my skype contacts in the addressbook on my n9?20:30
itsnotabigtruckdoes ^^^ that message appear on the N9 when flashed with a non-nokia kernel, and if so, does it occur every boot or only on the firstone20:31
djszapiN950itsnotabigtruck, nothing scary20:31
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: every boot20:31
itsnotabigtruckalso, if the unit is flashed back to the stock kernel does it "remember" that you've tampered with it20:31
djszapiN950it is just a warning20:31
djszapiN950the warning goes away20:32
itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN950: yeah, i just didn't realize until just now that it was such an aggressive one, i thought it was the little exclamation or sth20:32
djszapiN950aggressive ??20:32
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* djszapiN950 feels bikesheding :)20:33
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN950: well, aggressive as in loud, oyu know what i mean20:36
djszapiN950i do not really know because it is a normal warning, that is all ;) How would you put less "aggressive" ?20:39
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapiN950: anything more subtle than a big scary warning? :P20:39
SpeedEvilIt's also legally inaccurate in many jurisdictions.20:40
itsnotabigtruckthey can't take my warranty away because i don't have one! hah!20:40
djszapiN950i do not understand how it is "big scary"... it is nice to warn you with a screen, and obviously not with unvisiblle character size20:42
RST38hI think your definition of "nice" differs from everybody else's20:43
Rantwolfno answer for my question above?20:44
itsnotabigtruckRantwolf: i haven't tried skype yet so i can't help you there20:45
itsnotabigtruckhmm, i can't find the latin america warranty terms anywhere on the nokia site20:46
itsnotabigtruckdoes it mean anything if nokia suite says the unit has a valid warranty20:47
Rantwolfitsnotabigtruck: thanks nevertheless20:48
djszapiN950SpeedEvil, I am unsure about its legality, but I am disappoonted in Nokia in legal questions20:48
djszapiN950they do not care about qt5 legal questions :/20:50
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pawkyehhh.... just set up my N9 to work as a hot spot using 128bits WEP communication. When connecting to the phone, I can only connect to it as ad-hoc unencrypted..... duh?20:50
itsnotabigtruckwell for most companies, the answer to "how should we talk about legal things" is "don't talk about legal tings"20:51
admiral0pawky: works for me20:51
djszapiN950for me too20:51
itsnotabigtruckpawky: well, afaik it does show up as an ad-hoc network so that's normal20:51
admiral0djszapiN950: privmsg20:51
itsnotabigtruckyou can tether by USB btw20:51
pawkyadmiral0: It did with my old phone as well... but not this one... :-(20:51
itsnotabigtruckusing nokia suite, which works despite not officially being for the n920:52
admiral0i'm curious about what says iw20:52
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: well.. I am just testing things, so I am not in trouble that way... but If I choose 128bit encryption, I do not expect unsecured ad-hoc...20:52
itsnotabigtruckpawky: keep in mind that wep "128-bit encryption" is more like two-bit encryption :p20:53
pawkyand this, while the phone clearly states it uses 128bit encryption..20:53
itsnotabigtruckit can be cracked in about 15 mins with a laptop and the right tools20:53
itsnotabigtruckyou should use wpa2 only20:53
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: 15?20:53
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: well..  I would say that will be the 64 bit one.. not the 128 bit..20:53
admiral0itsnotabigtruck: 5 mins is too much20:53
itsnotabigtruckpawky: nope because it's not about the bits, it's about the implementation20:54
itsnotabigtruckWEP is fatally flawed and can be cracked quickly20:54
pawkywell.... as far as I remember when cracking these things, 128 bit still took a while..20:54
SpeedEvilWEP can never be 128 bits20:54
SpeedEvilIt can only be 80 bits20:54
pawkyfair enough...20:54
itsnotabigtruckit takes a long time to crack 128-bit encryption...if there isn't some other weakness you can go for instead20:54
SpeedEvilBut even 80 bits would have been fine20:54
itsnotabigtruckwith WEP, there is20:55
pawkybut, I still believe an unencrypted ad-hoc connection given ,when the phone states encrypted, might be even worse...20:55
itsnotabigtruckit's always about the weakest link20:55
admiral0i believe wpa supplicant can do wpa20:56
pawkyin my point of view, the question is rather, how come it states it uses 128bit, when it clearly does not???20:56
pawkywhere is the error?20:56
itsnotabigtruckpawky: encryption is't always about the bits20:56
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pawkyitsnotabigtruck: give up, I am not talking about the encryption..20:57
pawky... in bits...20:57
itsnotabigtruckalso i think wep uses a 128-bit key input, but not all of it is used for the rc4 encryption20:57
itsnotabigtruckpawky: A 128-bit WEP key is usually entered as a string of 26 hexadecimal characters. 26 digits of four bits each gives 104 bits; adding the 24-bit IV produces the complete 128-bit WEP key. Most devices also allow the user to enter it as 13 ASCII characters.20:58
SpeedEvilI mean 104, not 80, on reflection20:58
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: its not about the 128 blody bits!!!... its about it letting someone connect without any encryption at all, as ad-hoc!!!20:58
itsnotabigtruckok, i thought you were complaining that it says 128 bits when it isn't 128-bit-secure20:58
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: no.. its about not having any encryption at all... and being in ad-hoc mode...20:59
pawkywhilst it STATES, it is using WEP 128 bit...20:59
pawkyI kind of consider that being a bit worse, compared to people being able to crack the encryption key..21:00
itsnotabigtruckfair enough21:00
itsnotabigtruckdoes it let you put it into wpa2 mode from the gui21:00
itsnotabigtrucki can't check, my n9's on low battery mode21:00
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: nope...21:00
itsnotabigtruckalso check out the usb tethering option i menbtioned earlier21:00
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pawkyI thought one could do that... on the other phones, but not this one21:00
itsnotabigtruckthat's even better than secure wifi tethering21:01
itsnotabigtruckesp since it'll keep the phone charged while you tether21:01
pawkyWell.. its not about me needing a secure connection, its about the phone stating it does A, whilst doing B...21:01
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pawkyyou know... like a.... bug?21:01
djszapipawky: connect to the laptop all the time21:02
djszapiit consumes a lot of battery energy21:02
djszapipawky: try to reboot, maybe you made an open connection, and it is now confused.21:02
pawkyfair enough... i still would like the hot spot, to use what it states it is using...21:02
pawkydjszapi: will do..21:02
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: no, it does not sadly have wpa, otherwise pawky would have obviosuyl chosen that ;-)O21:03
pawkydjszapi: remember, its the same phone that cannot do internet radio....21:03
pawkydjszapi: spot on, regarding WAP..21:03
djszapipawky: interesting...if you come FOSDEM, I can show on my phone: they work :)21:03
pawkydjszapi: I am aiming at testing what we spoke about earlier today, with Jonni..21:04
itsnotabigtruckhas anyone built an alternative to joikuspot? it sounds like wpa-supplicant provides the necessary tools21:04
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: you cannot without open mode...21:04
itsnotabigtruckpawky: there's an internet radio app built by a nokia employee21:04
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itsnotabigtruckit's just like the symbian one21:04
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itsnotabigtruckalso, related to that, joikuspot warns that it reports statistical information about your usage when you start it - any idea what that is?21:05
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: yes, I know.. thats not the trouble.... the trouble is, on my phone it will only work using wifi... whilst  I can reach the server and connect to the port in 3g.. it will not play..21:05
itsnotabigtruckyou can't opt out, it's accept or exit21:05
itsnotabigtruckalso pawky: perhaps your carrier is blocking it?21:05
pawkyso, for testing purposes I thought of just set up a simple wifi hotspot for fun.. and get this weird stuff..21:06
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: no.. they don't... as far as I know.21:06
djszapipawky: why didn't you do what I advised btw ?21:06
pawkypawky: I can connect to the service using telnet.. and get stuff back..21:06
itsnotabigtruckpawky: download that 4shared link near the top21:06
djszapiopen up grob, and check out the maximum speed of your connection ?21:06
itsnotabigtruckremove any existing versions of nokia suite you have installed21:06
pawkydjszapi: i haven't had time to... until now..21:06
itsnotabigtruckdisconnect from your LAN, then start the ovi suite installer and install it21:07
djszapibuiltin, that is21:07
pawkywell. thought of just downloading a huge file..21:07
itsnotabigtruckreconnect to the LAN, and start ovi suite, and add your N921:07
itsnotabigtruckthen use ovi suite to update to nokia suite 3.221:07
pawkybut, then i stumbled upon this ad-hoc no WEP 'feature'..21:07
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: ehh.. I use Linux, but I get your drift...21:08
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itsnotabigtruckpawky: oh. :p21:08
pawkyagain.. i am still also curious about why this hotspot doesnt work..21:08
djszapipawky: please reboot...21:08
djszapior at least restart joikuspot.21:08
pawkydid it..21:08
pawkywill teest..21:08
djszapiI would reboot your Pc, too21:08
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pawkydjszapi: which of them?21:10
pawkyok.. it now states 128b encryption on the phone... lets connect...21:10
djszapithe one you connect to the phone with, but it should work oob. Something is messed up :)21:11
pawkyconnects nicely using ad-hoc... no encryption..21:11
pawky(using my N900)21:11
djszapihave you tried from laptop ?21:12
pawkydjszapi: you bet ;-)21:12
pawky"lots of 'em"...21:12
djszapiplease debug with a laptop, not N90021:12
djszapianything on the console ?21:12
pawkydjszapi: like?21:13
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pawkyjipee.. now connected without encryption ad-hoc with my computer as well....21:14
pawkythus.... "nada enchiladas" when it comes to any 128bit encryption...21:14
djszapiI do not speak that language, sorry.. just binary :)21:15
djszapiwell, console and syslog might help (or not, but worth checking out).21:15
pawkythats not mine either.. just an expression..21:15
pawkythe spanish speeking might smile...21:15
pawkyenchilada is a dish..21:15
pawkydjszapi: on the phone you mean?21:15
itsnotabigtrucknow you're making me hungry :(21:16
djszapiwhat do you use on the host btw ?21:16
pawkywill try a speed test, whilst connected..21:16
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: well... i said I had nada of them...21:16
pawkyhmm... 3.50mbits... down.. .21:16
djszapi*nods*, thus it is better than mine, and yet: wfm.21:17
pawkydjszapi: well.. its still thinking regarding the upload speed..21:17
djszapiyes, of course.21:17
pawkyand suddenly the phone complains about battery being low... (which it isnt)21:17
itsnotabigtrucki was slightly disappointed that "4g" hspa+ speed for me = 5 megs down, 300k up21:17
djszapiyou sure your hardware issued phone got replaced for a proper hardware ?21:18
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pawkydjszapi: yes.. this it the 3rd one..21:18
pawkyIMEI confirmed..21:18
SpeedEvilpawky: datas transfer at high speed _eats_ power21:18
* RST38h yawns, sacrifices a hamster21:18
pawkymight be.. but not THAT much power..21:18
pawkylike half the battery in 10 minutes..21:18
SpeedEvilnot quite21:19
djszapithat is absurd :)21:19
SpeedEvilMore like 10%21:19
djszapipawky: but as I said, please connect to the usb port to the laptop for instance, or use wall-charger continously.21:20
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RST38h50% of 1380mAh in 10 minutes won't go with some nice red-hot wiring21:20
djszapijoikuspot eats a lot21:20
pawkybut still no connection for the upload...21:20
itsnotabigtruckwhich is also why i was hocking the usb approach...there's gotta be some way to use nokia usb tethering from linux21:20
itsnotabigtruckpawky: check this out21:21
itsnotabigtruckit looks like network-manager has built in support for nokia's usb interface21:21
itsnotabigtruckmake sure to use "sync and connect" mode21:21
djszapibut still, this issue is weird even if there is a better solution.21:21
djszapipawky: anything in syslog or on console ? What do you use for connecting on thos PC ?21:22
djszapihost, even*21:22
pawkydjszapi: well.. what I am trying to do here, is to prove wether the phone is faulty (again) or if something else is fishy..21:22
pawkydjszapi: well... at the moment I connect to phone using ad-hoc unencrypted connection, and can check things on the phone using the USB key you wanted me to connect..21:23
pawkytrying another speed test..21:23
pawky3.5mbit down...21:24
djszapithat is pretty cool for internet radio in order to get it work21:24
pawkyahh.. now i got 1.66mbits up... a bit better :-)21:24
djszapiso it is not the culsprit.21:24
pawkydjszapi: well... was scared the upload might be f-...21:24
pawkyok.. now I will try to run internet radio through pc.. with phone as hotspot (without the encryption)21:25
pawkyAmarok, here we come...21:25
admiral0dudes, help :
djszapiadmiral0: tried behind dev shell ?21:26
admiral0i'm in devshell as root21:26
djszapiok, then you are out of the luck21:26
admiral0~ # whoami21:26
pawkyadmiral0: welcome to aegis....21:27
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djszapigimme this: accli -I in devshell21:27
pawkyi believe djzsapi can tell you aaaaaall about it... ;-)21:27
djszapipawky: tab is your friend for nick names ;)21:27
admiral0no i'm in21:27
admiral0was through ssh21:28
pawkydjszapi: might try it some day... ;-)21:28
admiral0and not in develsh21:28
admiral0so i did user -> devel-su -> develsh21:28
admiral0now works21:28
djszapiplease do not.21:28
pawkyhmm.. what is all this "usetimed: WARNING Unknown cellular activity: -1" ???21:29
djszapiadmiral0: so you need a credential which is only available in OVI store, but not for unknown application source. develsh was designed for aiding the development for OVI21:30
djszapior for community policies as well nowadays actually21:30
admiral0djszapi: nope was just checking nat table for usb tethering21:31
itsnotabigtrucki really need to check my spelling before i hit enter...damn ssh lag21:31
djszapiadmiral0: exactly, and that operation is available only with ovi credentials.21:31
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: yes, there is a community aegis policy set21:32
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: and what exactly is that...i'm not turning up much with a search21:32
djszapias it name says, community policies. What is acceptable for community stuff.21:32
pawkydjszapi: by the way, can I do a back up of the phone.... then reset it fully... do a restore, without aegis going bonkers about it?21:33
itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: which implies? this is nowhere documented, searching for community policies only turns up some irc logs of this very channel, and some pasties21:33
djszapibackup is a grey area :)21:33
djszapinot because of aegis though)21:33
djszapiitsnotabigtruck: check out the repository then21:34
djszapiapps repository iirc21:34
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itsnotabigtruckdjszapi: that won't explain what it relaxes etc.21:36
djszapiit will21:36
djszapithat is the only thing actually what it says :D21:37
itsnotabigtruckit would be nice if this stuff was documented's so opaque for anyone who hasn't been involved in this since the beginning of the n950 days21:38
djszapieverything is documented in the platform security21:38
djszapiif you understand the documentation, you understand the package itself...21:38
djszapi(everything ~regarding this)21:39
djszapipolicies are a different layer in comparison with the framework21:39
pawkydjszapi: maybe a reset might do the trick.. what do you think?21:39
djszapiwe did not know who and what policies they decided, and this one is especially a hot topic anyway21:39
djszapipawky: go for it man :)21:40
itsnotabigtruckwell, i'm kinda referring to everything about aegis, flashing stuff, etc. - it's assumed everybody knows everything already21:40
pawkydjszapi: so easy to say ha... when its not ones own phone... ;-)21:40
itsnotabigtruckbecause most of the people involved with this were involved from the beginn9ing21:40
itsnotabigtruck(hm, interesting typo, heh)21:41
djszapiI was referring to the discussed topic. I do not change immediately topic..21:42
djszapiit is like saying Qt does not document the Qt apps in the Qt documentation :D21:42
itsnotabigtruckfwiw doesn't actually contain the word 'policy' anywhere in the security related docs21:44
itsnotabigtruckactually it does, the search is just bad21:44
djszapiof course it does :D21:45
pawkyehh.. what security code is it asking for... to reset?21:46
djszapidevice lock ?21:46
pawkyehh.. well.. its turned of...21:47
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djszapibut you can turn back anytime :)21:48
pawkywell IT can.... obviously...21:48
itsnotabigtruckpawky: try a blank code21:50
itsnotabigtruckoh, also try your nokia account password21:50
itsnotabigtruck related to that...supposedly unlock codes can only be reset by a service center, is it possible to cleanse the unlock code using flasher21:52
pawkyitsnotabigtruck: it was some old password I accidently set on the phone..21:52
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djszapiitsnotabigtruck: it was possible 2 years ago, at least. I could not achieve that recently.21:53
admiral0djszapi: aegis is cool as long as i can decide what to check21:53
itsnotabigtruck looks like somebody on tmo suggested using nemesis service suite, but another person claims it doesn't work21:54
itsnotabigtruck i don't need to do it now, but it's probably good ot know how to do that in the future21:55
djszapiadmiral0: I realized 2 years ago ;) I think, not in the sense as you mean though.21:55
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admiral0well, it's nice because one of my friends had a bad habit of trolling me with a py trojan21:57
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admiral0on the n90021:57
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infobotjust checking if it's fixed on ssu channel21:57
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infobotjust checking if it's fixed on ssu channel21:57
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befr0dhey. quick ovi related question, do I have to sumib my bank info to get an app aproved?22:32
Iktwobefr0d: no22:33
IktwoI haven't succesfully set my bank info and I have apps in store22:33
befr0dthanks Iktwo22:34
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djszapiVenemo: o/22:49
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djszapiIs it possible to generate different background colour than grey'ish with javispedro's generator ? It does not really scale well with a grey icon by default.22:53
djszapiohh it works:
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SqRt7744has anyone successfully used a qt C++ model in qml?22:59
befr0dnice, didn't know about that icon generator22:59
jpwhitingSqRt7744: o/ I have22:59
jpwhitingSqRt7744: there are lots of examples which work too, no?23:00
SqRt7744jpwhiting, cool, i have a question. i found a blog (Chris' Blog) "How to use a C++ list model in QML". It's all good, but the particular model i need to implement doesn't have an "item" class, just a model and an iterator23:00
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SqRt7744I'm still trying to port evopedia to harmattan, the source is available, I'm just working with that.23:01
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jpwhitingyou shouldn't need an item class, just as long as the model can give different values for different roles it should be fine23:02
jpwhitingand you have to tell the C++ class which roles map to which strings in qml23:02
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SqRt7744my trouble is how to structure the delegate, I can't say Text { text: sometext} because the delegate won't know what I'm referring to.23:03
SqRt7744jpwhiting, yes, the role map, that is the trouble, that is exactly the problem.23:04
SqRt7744there isn't one, and to be honest, I don't really know where to add one.23:04
rcgSqRt7744: ^23:06
SqRt7744git pull
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SqRt7744rcg, thanks will look.23:06
rcgin your case start with the lower most listing and move upwards.. should be pretty selfexplanatory23:07
SqRt7744btw, is anyone else interested in evopedia? I can't live without that program.23:08
IktwoSqRt7744: I was going to try to por it23:08
SqRt7744Iktwo, well, since this is all new to me, if you think you can port it fast, be my guest. It might take me a while (and it is a learning experience)23:09
SqRt7744also, I doubt upstream is going to accept my sloppy hacks23:09
IktwoIt's great, I'm still learning too, I'll try it, I'm always here maybe I can help you23:10
SqRt7744Iktwo, it already runs on my phone, but defaults to the desktop qt interface, which is completely unusable.23:10
IktwoSqRt7744 yeah looks ugly but a lot of maemo apps "works"23:10
itsnotabigtrucki ought to port milkytracker to the N9, especially since apparently nokia just added sdl to the repository :D23:10
SqRt7744i could live with ugly, but it is ugly and also doesn't work.23:10
itsnotabigtrucklooks like it's already on the n900, most of it is probably packaging and adjusting the fixed-res gui23:11
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Iktwoitsnotabigtruck it is available for maemo, but you have to change the source to use QML components23:12
SqRt7744Iktwo, you can't click the entries or actually type in your search term, even though everything shows up. So i'm trying to redo the interface in qml using harmattan components. That's the plan anyway23:12
IktwoI had a very hard time learning how to populate a list using QML23:13
SqRt7744it took me a few days to get the thing to run, turns out I had to softlink some libs in the toolchain23:13
SqRt7744bzlib to be specific23:14
itsnotabigtruckIktwo: iirc milkytracker has an sdl based gui so that's probably the way to go23:19
IktwoI don't know a thing about SDL :s23:19
itsnotabigtruckat least the linux version23:19
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itsnotabigtruckyou don't want's not very good, but there's still a decent amount of stuff around that uses it23:20
itsnotabigtruckit's a library for doing extremely basic 2d graphics stuff, and it can also set up opengl for you23:21
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