IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2012-01-04

DocScrutinizerwirwe: there are alsi subdirs like /usr/share/applications/hildon/ where a second *.desktop could exist00:01
DocScrutinizerwirwe: grep -r "<yourIconFileName>.png" /usr/share/applications00:05
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wirweDocScrutinizer: Moving the .desktop-file removes both icons, in /home/user/, /home/user/.local/, /usr/local are no .desktop files. it isn't in the subdirs. and grep -r […] gave no results. *sigh*00:41
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pawkyDocScrutinizer: Has anybody succeeded to succesfully install browser root certs in openmode yet?00:52
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wirwei found a solution: it is the name that seems to confuse… i don't unterstand why, but the following works: the file is called `camera-ui.desktop`. renaming it to `cam.desktop` removes only one icon on the homescreen although renaming it for example to `cam.des` removes both icons of course.01:04
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DocScrutinizer51pawky: I don't know.01:29
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infobot'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''01:57
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javispedrowhy there are not cyan 64 GiB N9s =)02:11
arekinathbecause cyan is too awesome02:12
arekinath(I have no idea)02:12
DocScrutinizerprobably 64GB selling less than 16GB, and cyan selling less than black02:14
JackaLXWhen I bought my N9 they said cyan 64Gb would be available at the end of the year (2011)  I guess it didn't happen :-(02:14
arekinathmarket segmentation... the goal isn't to make the perfect product, it's to make the set of products that in aggregate sells the best02:15
DocScrutinizeror they got no firmware for the 64GB cyan XP02:15
javispedrothey used a signed char for the variant field02:15
DocScrutinizer"unexpected problems"02:15
javispedroand the 64GiB cyan was num 128 :)02:15
merlin1991DocScrutinizer: the firmware has to comprehend for the missing colour absorption of the cyan case, but it can't when there is 64 gb of mem to keep safe ;)02:16
javispedroon most youtube N9 videos I get ads for the hooker800.02:16
DocScrutinizerI honestly would pay a beer for anybody plausibly explaining that Nokia ever did firmware versions that were *really* tailored to the case color02:17
merlin1991maybe they do have a slightly different colour set in the menus and os on02:17
DocScrutinizerI already suspected that02:18
merlin1991according to some silly stats about appealing colour combinations02:18
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DocScrutinizerbut nobody showed me a color-natched firmware yet02:18
DocScrutinizeron *any* Nokia02:18
javispedroactually the cyan 16 GiB is in truth a black 64GiB, but 48GiB are filled with the binary for a hyper advanced algorithm that causes the case to change color02:18
DocScrutinizermicro DLP creating interference color filters02:19
DocScrutinizerlike with insects02:19
merlin1991I like javispedros explanation02:19
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TronicWhite 64 GB is quite cool though.02:32
JackaLXcall me old fashioned but I think black is the best colour02:33
JackaLXbut that may be because I have a black N902:33
merlin1991any colour is good, as long as it is black02:34
ieatlinti like that there's a choice at least02:34
ieatlinti found it interesting that all the n9s handed out in munich dev days were blue, and all handed out in sf dev days were black02:35
javispedroI want a N9 :'(02:37
ieatlinthow about a lumia 800 instead?02:38
javispedroieatlint: I _already_ have the lumia02:38
Tronicieatlint: What is that good for?02:38
ieatlint(it's surprising i don't get punched more often)02:38
javispedroI'd say "my commiserations" instead of congrats, but that's another story.02:39
ieatlintyeah, i played with mine a bit... really depressing02:39
TronicSo close but so far away... If only could I Flash Harmattan onto the Lumia 800.02:39
DocScrutinizer51what good for is a N9?02:39
ieatlinti'll give the search app some credit, but that's the only thing remotely "nice"02:39
javispedroieatlint: search app? you mean... bing?02:40
javispedroare you giving bing credit and calling it nice?02:40
TronicDocScrutinizer51: I might actually prefer that over N950, if not for the "developer only device" coolness factor.02:40
ieatlintjavispedro: say what you will, but the voice recognition worked pretty well for me, and the camera-based stuff wasn't bad at all02:40
ieatlintit read barcodes faster than meescan for instance, and i didn't have terrible luck with the OCR support02:41
javispedrocamera stuff only recognizes qr codes here02:41
TronicAll open source barcode recognition programs that I have seen have been horribly bad.02:41
javispedroieatlint: US locale?02:41
ieatlintuh, well for me it can identify some objects (like hold a book cover in front of it)02:41
TronicI guess they are all based on the same libs.02:41
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ieatlintand it can do OCR on uniformly printed text02:41
ieatlintand yeah, US locale, but the same firmware as all of you02:42
ieatlinti just clicked US on first boot (and then stared in surprise that it immediately had to reboot in order to apply that change)02:42
TronicI think that Shazam is not available when using Finnish locale and that my credit card payments get rejected when using the UK locale.02:42
ieatlintoh, yeah, it also had the built in song recognition thing02:43
TronicIt would have been interesting to try that app but apparently they don't want me to buy it.02:43
ieatlintit's wp7 and bing, but i can't deny that small aspect was decent02:43
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javispedroI guess it's something like the google goggles02:48
ieatlintpretty much02:48
javispedrothey are quite impressive stuff, but I do have to wonder their usefulness02:48
javispedrospecially if they require connectivity...02:48
Tronicieatlint: Where did you find speech recognition or song recognition?02:48
ieatlintbut they threw in the google voice search and shazaam02:48
ieatlintTronic: from the home screen, press the search button02:49
ieatlintthen there are icons for each02:49
javispedroactually, from any screen02:49
javispedrothe search button will launch bing no matter where you are02:49
javispedroa decision I can bet the reasoning behind it :)02:49
ieatlintyeah, wasn't sure on that, hadn't used the phone enough to get the behaviour that well down02:49
ieatlintand yeah, should submit a support request asking why google isn't available02:50
TronicBarcode scanning doesn't seem to do UPC.02:50
javispedroon mine at least it says02:51
javispedro"Point to a QR-code or a MS tag"02:51
DocScrutinizera wut?02:51
ieatlintmine says 1d or 2d barcode, an object like a book or dvd (although it recognize a handful of other things)02:52
javispedrohey it works02:52
Tronicjavispedro: Same here but I was hoping that it would also do other types of barcodes (at the very least other types of 2d barcodes).02:52
ieatlintand if there is text on the screen, a button appears that says "scan text"02:52
javispedrothere's a button for OCR on the bottom :)02:52
javispedrooh, that might explain why it was not there previously :)02:52
ieatlintthe OCR is kinda half-assed admittedly02:53
javispedroI pointed it to this window and it translated DocScrutinizer's previous message as "Doctor Scrutinizer: ¿un wut?" (a wut? as in "one wut?")02:53
ieatlintbut the search app thing as a whole is the most interesting part of the phone02:53
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javispedronot bad02:54
javispedrobut I was more impressed with the google thing =)02:55
ieatlintit couldn't be all crap :P02:55
javispedrostill, totally useless02:55
ieatlintyeah, exactly02:55
javispedrothough I'd die for working, accurate, local voice recognition.02:55
ieatlinteveryone said "wow, that's awesome", but it was never practical02:55
ieatlintthat's not happening anytime soon02:55
TronicIs the microphone listening option supposed to detect songs?02:56
TronicTried britney spears and metallica with no success.02:56
ieatlintno, the microphone is speech02:56
ieatlintthere should be a music icon02:56
javispedroyou can also dictate in the onenote app at least02:56
TronicOkay, depends on locale then, I guess.02:56
javispedroseems so :(02:56
ieatlinti have 4 icons02:56
TronicI only have eye and mic.02:56
javispedroI only have the icon for music in Bing02:56
javispedroI have music and eye :)02:57
javispedrobut I can dictate to onenote02:57
ieatlint"scout", which is meh; a music note icon which is the song identifier, an eye which is the google goggles knock off and a microphone for speech02:57
javispedroso no idea why I can't dictate to bing02:57
ieatlintjavispedro: hold down the windows button02:57
javispedrothat is commands, not dictation02:58
javispedroand it works locally btw02:58
javispedrobut commands/navigation is much easier than dictation02:58
ieatlintdefaults to search unless you use a command02:58
ieatlintheh, ok, i need to stop this before i get accused of being a plant02:58
TronicNokia had voice commands on S40 something like a decade ago.02:58
ieatlintplus i feel a little dirty now02:58
javispedrodoesn't here, it says "I don't understand"02:58
Tronic(not quite sure if it was even S40 by then)02:59
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javispedrothe onenote thing is not dictation02:59
ieatlinti know the bing search results were WAY too sanitized02:59
javispedroit just stored the voice note02:59
TronicIt's a good feature to have, though.02:59
TronicEspecially when using a handsfree.02:59
ieatlinti'm not wanting to search for porn, but they seemed to try and eliminate any results that could be remotely deemed sexual02:59
ieatlint(and at the same time, half the time when it misunderstood me, it defaulted to sexual-based searches)03:00
TronicSwitching to US locale didn't help.03:00
TronicStill no extra buttons.03:00
ieatlintwhich i can only assume is caused by the fact that people screwing around with it are more likely to treat it like the dictionary when you're 10: looking up "dirty" words03:00
ieatlint(btw, the dictionary totally has words like "sex" and "butt" in it -- it's awesome)03:01
TronicBing speech recognition is quite good but it doesn't seem to understand Lumia :P03:04
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TronicText recognition is unusably bad and I didn't get detection on Bluray covers either.03:09
javispedroyou could use Ovi Contacts from the N9?03:09
javispedroah yes, sorry03:10
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TronicGoogle's speech recognition (VoiceToGoog on N9) seems to be of equal quality.03:25
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TronicI did reset all the phone settings and now the market has also a music store (previously only apps and games), and I can find Shazam again (but cannot buy it of course).03:38
TronicAlso Bing now has music detection.03:40
ieatlintthat makes sense: the phone isn't available in the US, but the US market has additional features03:40
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TronicActually I used UK but US seems to have the same things.03:46
TronicFinland doesn't.03:46
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TronicAnd anyway the phone should be available in the US shortly, I guess?03:47
itsnotabigtruckTronic: the what?03:47
itsnotabigtruckif you mean the n9, nein03:47
TronicTalking of Lumia 800 here.03:47
itsnotabigtruckah ok03:48
itsnotabigtruckwell, they launched the 710 on t-mobile but not the 800...i wouldn't get my hopes up too much03:48
itsnotabigtrucknokia seems to have a knack for refusing to launch any half decent phone in the us03:48
itsnotabigtruckthen they wonder why they get no sales from the us03:48
itsnotabigtruckanyway, so looking at the backlog, i was assuming that aegisfs just didn't let you read stuff that was put there from closed mode - so apparently, aegisfs is completely broken in open mode, and that breaks close to everything?03:49
ieatlintTronic: i wouldn't bet on it03:49
TronicWith US locale I also get "podcasts" on store.03:49
itsnotabigtruckhas anyone looked into how aegisfs actually works03:51
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itsnotabigtruckand how the phone detects tampering when going from open mode to closed mode?03:51
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merlin1991itsnotabigtruck: it was stated a few days ago that early in the boot process, prob by nolo, the chip that holds the aegis fs data gets notified about open or closed mode04:49
merlin1991and depending on that uses another cert for data access04:49
itsnotabigtruckmerlin1991: ah, ok05:10
itsnotabigtruckstill, if you can screw with the filesystem and go back to closed mode, there has to be a way to subvert this05:10
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befordI kinda hate that qtcreator doesn't show harmattan components on the Design view06:43
RST38hMEANWHILE: HP renames its TouchSmart software Magic Canvas, plans to install it on all desktops (even non-touch ones)07:15
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* RST38h yawns 12:23
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dm8tbrgnaaaah meecast screwed up the homescreen applet12:35
dm8tbrhow do I install it manually?12:35
kevin_bdm8tbr ; what is "it" ? homescreen applet?12:37
dm8tbrit thinks it's installed but I'm pretty sure it isn't12:38
dm8tbrand yes that widget12:39
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kevin_bsorry I feel confused by "homescreen applet"12:41
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kevin_bis it the app, allowing you to build some mini widget like in maemo desktop?12:41
kevin_bor is it the homeviews, that are screwed?12:42
kevin_bor is it the icons in the AppList homeview that are screwed12:42
auenfthe meecast homescreen applet needs to be a little wider12:45
auenfCambelltown (GPS) is only visible as ambelltown (GP12:45
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Stecchinoniwakame|away: are you publishing the extra im-providers on the ovi store?13:35
macmaNJaffa: lol that twitter reply was irc-fast-like13:37
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macmaNjaffa: but afair, wifi-assistant was about just detecting a captive portal and then automating opening a webpage with no subsequent automation based on a per-hotspot learning process.13:38
JaffamacmaN: True13:39
JaffamacmaN: For the second bit you could do something like which captures input fields to automate an airline's mobile check-in website13:40
JaffamacmaN: First stage is to detect the captive portal and open browser window. Automating subsequent actions would be brilliant (given all the hotels I'm travelling to atm)13:41
macmaNyeah. although definitely the point is valid that at least wifi-assistant doesnt keep you in the dark.13:41
macmaNotherwise youre cursing out your fb app for not connecting when it in fact is just waiting on the captive portal. theres a serious fail here in the overall process.13:42
macmaNi think it might do well with a collaborative backend type thing13:43
macmaNto be able to share learned hotspots13:43
macmaNalthough not entirely sure how the syncing would work... i dont think i will need some african hotspots portal scripts be stored on my phone.13:44
JaffamacmaN: But it'll be handful of bytes13:44
JaffamacmaN: But it's the specific data; rather than the fields which need to be captured.13:44
macmaNbut i think per-city hotspots might work13:44
JaffamacmaN: And then you could just store off JSON data of all the user-visible fields for replay by that user13:45
macmaNright. either way, i think just getting a proof of concept with no regard to storage efficiency and that other finetuning crap would be very good :>13:46
JaffamacmaN: Aye; happy to contribute if you get it started13:46
macmaNword. ill ping you in the case i get something started.13:49
JaffamacmaN: Ta13:49
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Corsachmh, is there a way to see changelog information for app updates?15:15
X-FadeCorsac: No, not easily.15:15
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X-FadeThe debian changelog of course can have some info.15:16
Corsacexcept it's not on the device15:17
X-FadeThere is a special field that can be used in the control file, but I it is not being used afaik :)15:18
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amppaCorsac: i think there was a field for changes shown in the store if you're distributing there15:36
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Corsacamppa: I'm not distributing anything, but I really would like to know what are the changes when I update apps15:45
marsjeI flashed my n9 to PR1.1 yesterday15:45
marsjeit worked15:45
marsjebut now when I type devel-su in the terminal, the only thing is says is "incorrect password"15:45
marsjehow can I reset my root password?15:46
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janmalteI was wondering where the central meeting point for the n9 is. For the n900 everything was at, but for the n9? still or
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janmaltethanks auenf for the interesting blog post. it is exactly was i was wondering/complain about.16:34
janmalteYet an other question, where can i post a suggestion for the rss feed app on N9?16:35
janmalteI'm missing a feature to limit the items displayed in the feed view.16:35
janmaltebut don't know where i can reach the author or company to tell them about it16:35
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decibytethp, i'd also like to thank you for the blog post. guess it's what everybody is thinking. symptomatic that your own blog seems the best place to write about it :)16:42
thpdecibyte: now that the problem is made clear, i'd like for someone to step up and solve it ;)16:43
X-Fadethp: Working on some things at least.16:45
decibytethp, hehe. yeah! though i don't know who that someone should be.16:46
decibytei mean, it's hard to go in and be a replacement what nokia did (time, money, everything) for fremantle and earlier maemoes. all respect to those who try to do _something_16:47
thpX-Fade: nice, thanks :) will grab the apps testing enabler16:47
X-Fadethp: It is now in apps itself, makes it a bit easier.16:48
thpyes, i wondered how to get the testing things onto the device16:48
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X-Fadethp: Well there is this really big button up there ;)16:48
thpX-Fade: also, is it correct that when sending a push request to the apps testing repo, i have to make sure that the old version is removed?16:48
X-Fadethp: You push releases. So you basically everything you would upload to the autobuilder.16:49
decibyteX-Fade: wow, nice job!16:49
X-Fadethp: So that means that you either osc rm oldstuff, osc add newstuff.16:49
* rm_work should stop being pinged on any use of "rm" in linux related channels :P16:50
X-Fadeosc rm_work * :)16:50
thprm_work: i got the same problem with "toothpaste"16:52
decibyteis updates coming automagically to the device like for ovi apps? (as in: some sort of repo underneath?)16:52
thpdecibyte: yep it seems like that16:53
thpX-Fade: and apparently it also seems like the problem with ovi install -> apps for meego upgrade has also been solved already?16:53
X-Fadedecibyte: Yes.16:53
X-Fadethp: I'm still testing that.16:54
X-FadeBut uninstall->install always works.16:54
decibyteyay! this is _really_ great news. you guys rock. this solves one of the biggest issues.16:54
decibyte(please forgive me for stating the obvious)16:54
X-Fadedecibyte: apps is just a repo, like extras.16:55
X-Fadedecibyte: And this just notifies you when there are updates.16:55
decibytei miss extras. well... now i don't do anymore :)16:55
decibytebut do users have to add a repo or does the n9client do that when installed?16:55
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X-FadeThe client adds it automatically.16:56
X-FadeAnd also pulls in the community aegis policy.16:56
thpX-Fade: will it be possible comment, rate and review apps from within the AFM client app?16:56
X-FadeSo after that, you don't need to have 'allow install from unsecure sources' enabled anymore.16:57
X-Fadethp: Yes, that is on our todo.16:57
decibytepaving the way to world domination now.16:57
M4rtinKX-Fade: any ide why my app ( is still stuck in testing ? it already has 6 positive testing reports and last update was published cca 14 days ago :)16:57
decibytewho pays for this? infrastructure, etc?16:58
X-Fadedecibyte: Nokia16:58
X-Fadedecibyte: This is hosted next to maemo.org16:58
decibyteokay. they're not _all_ bad guys.16:58
X-FadeM4rtinK: No, 5 positive, one negative.16:58
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M4rtinKah, now I see16:59
X-FadeM4rtinK: I wondered too today :)16:59
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X-FadeM4rtinK: But then noticed that :)16:59
X-FadeWe even have a bot which will notify on promotion etc.17:00
X-FadeBut someone got annoyed and banned it ;)17:01
M4rtinKlooks like one of the testers probably forgot to tick the checkbox17:01
X-FadeM4rtinK: They can edit their vote.17:01
Corsacok, tracker-store really starts to piss me off17:01
M4rtinKyeah I wondered why I'm not getting even any emails, etc. :)17:01
X-FadeYou should be getting emails when promotion happens.17:01
M4rtinKok then, time to ping the Mieru user community :)17:01
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sivanghi all17:03
sivangis root login on ssh disabled by default?17:03
sivangI can devel-su, but I cannot ssh to the device with -lroot using the password I Set.17:03
X-Fadesivang: yes17:03
sivangX-Fade: okay, good17:03
M4rtinKBTW, if anyone is willing to test my application on their N9/50, it welly be very appreciated :)17:03
sivangI think this was not so before the last fw upgrade17:03
X-Fadesivang: Unless you have R&D certs in your device.17:03
sivangX-Fade: what are those?17:04
sivang(if I may ask, been a while since I did on device dev)17:04
X-Fadesivang: Nevermind ;)17:04
janmalteM4rtinK: i would do so, but i have some trouble about read-only mounting of my fat partition. untill this will be fixed, i can't install any app at the moment....17:05
sivangX-Fade: is this the I can install through the SDK?17:05
X-Fadesivang: No, it is for people who work for Nokia.17:05
M4rtinKjanmalte: well, thanks in advance :)17:06
Corsacssh as root is a bad idea anyway17:07
X-FadeAnd root is not quite the root you expect also :)17:07
jonnisivang:   but toor is bad idea anyways atleast on default paswords17:07
X-FadeMost things you really want to do as a user.17:07
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sivangCorsac: agreed17:12
sivangX-Fade: indeed, as test-deploy my app17:13
X-Fadesivang: It will only run as user, so ;)17:13
Corsacok, now I can't even send and read sms17:13
* Corsac cries17:13
sivangI was actually looking to see that 1.1 disabled ssh root login17:13
sivangand now I'm relieved :)17:14
sivangthanks X-Fade17:14
janmaltei could use some real root too like it seems:
janmaltedo you have any idea what i can do except reflashing the whole device?17:14
sivangjanmalte: what happened to it?17:14
janmaltei don't know .... suddenly MyDocs is mounted only readonly17:15
janmalteevery time17:15
marsjePR1.1 also seems to have erased my root password17:15
marsjedoes it have a new default password maybe?17:15
marsjedoesn't work17:17
marsjedon't understand what happened17:17
marsjeI thought that yesterday it worked17:17
marsjemaybe I made a typo changing the password or something17:17
sivangCorsac: rootme does not work anymore17:17
jonniyou can use rescue kernel&initrd to reset your password back to normal17:17
Corsacit sure works for me17:17
sivangCorsac: nor is the new password I set to root using devel-su; passwd root17:17
sivangCorsac: ssh localhost -lroot from the device after developer login? 'user' also does not login17:18
jonnisivang: -lroot only works if you follow the instructions on that web page17:18
jonnisivang: by default only -ldeveloper works17:19
marsjejonni: rescue kernel&init?17:19
jonnimarsje: same thing that you use to fix malf, instructions are on wiki17:20
jonnimarsje: instead of fixing malf you just edit /etc/passwd17:20
Corsacsivang: ssh doesn't work as root, as we already told you17:20
Corsacsivang: use ssh as developer then devel-su17:21
thpX-Fade: btw, what about having something like be the forum link for harmattan and either redirect to a subforum on or TMO or ask reggie to create a simple forum in the style of and move threads from handset forum and tmo harmattan there?17:22
marsjejonni: do you have a link, because I'm not sure what you are talking about yet :)17:23
X-Fadethp: I feel that we really need some cleanup in the harmattan forum.17:23
X-FadeHaving it at talk it probably the best solution.17:23
X-FadeAs meego is really going away at some point.17:23
thpX-Fade: that "some point" being soon (<6 months)?17:24
X-FadeAnd we share a lot with anyway (same people)17:24
X-Fadethp: Oh yes.17:24
thpX-Fade: i think quim mentioned that people new to the n9 might have a hard time associating with the "meego harmattan" n9, so maybe we can have the forum on somewhere17:24
marsjejonni: thanks!17:25
thpand ideally sharing the TMO infrastructure17:25
X-Fadethp: We should not kid ourselves.17:25
M4rtinKX-Fade: what about the, accounts and COBS ?17:25
X-Fadethp: Basically all knowledge of maemo applies.17:25
thpyep, most of the n9 users really come from a maemo background anyway17:25
X-FadeM4rtinK: We intend to migrate that over to maemo.org17:26
M4rtinKnice ! :)17:26
thpX-Fade: so will be used strictly for the apps. subdomain?17:26
X-Fadethp: There are other things there, but like you said, we should not fragment any more.17:27
thpX-Fade: in that case, the simple(?) solution would be to ask reggie to shut down the handset subforum and move all threads there to TMO (which might be non-trivial, due to the different user base/usernames)17:27
X-Fadethp: I'd leave it there, but read only it and point to somewhere else.17:28
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thpX-Fade: also possible, but what happens when "disappears"? then all these useful threads will be lost. so maybe a read-only archive of all threads somewhere below or could do the trick?17:29
X-Fadethp: Well, we can back them up anyway. We have root ;)17:30
X-Fadethp: It is just that the site might go away at some point.17:30
kevin_bhey guys!17:30
wirweks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 3 voices, 167 normal]17:31
wirwe16:30 -!- Channel #harmattan created Wed Jun 22 11:56:40 201117:31
X-FadeBut I don't think Reggie has a lot of time to do migrations/merges.17:31
kevin_bDoes your harmattan oftenly ask you the pass for your facebook acount17:31
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thpX-Fade: is owned by the linux foundation and is owned by the maintainers? or who owns what?17:31
X-Fadethp: dm8tbr owns it, hosts it.17:32
kevin_bHarmattan keep prompt me for my facebook password, every hour...17:32
kevin_bis that normal?17:32
X-Fadekevin_b: yes, that is a bug.17:32
kevin_bok fine wwaiting for pr 1.2 :17:32
jonninormal bug in pr1.1 which is fixed in future pr release17:32
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X-FadeM4rtinK: You should get mail.17:36
X-FadeM4rtinK: meiru just got the last vote.17:36
thpX-Fade: the reason why i would like to have the forum things moved to is that when goes away, all links will break, so the earlier we move it, the more time we have to update links, etc..17:37
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X-Fadethp: Yeah, I get that. Problem is that migrating userbases is alway a major pain.17:37
X-Fadethp: And I don't think Reggie has a lot of time.17:40
thpyep, sure. just wanted to get that idea out there ;)17:41
X-FadeWe could copy over some interesting info though.17:42
X-FadeI don't know how much good info is in there.17:42
thpX-Fade: heuristic: sort by view count, descending and take the upper 20%?17:43
* merlin1991 is more concerned if apps formeego will ever get a dependency system17:43
X-Fademerlin1991: read my blogpost :)17:43
merlin1991link please17:43
X-FadeAt the end.17:43
X-FadeBut I will post some more info on the wiki hopefully this week.17:44
X-FadeI have been testing with that.17:44
merlin1991that looks promising17:44
* merlin1991 shares thp latest rant about an extras equivalent on harmattan :D17:44
thpX-Fade: btw, at there it says "MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan:Apps:Testing" for 'to target project', but in the section "What happens next" it says "MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan:Testing" - is that correct or should the second one also be MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan:Apps:Testing?17:45
X-Fadethp: Ouch, that is a typo.17:45
thpanyway, i'm off for now. talk to you guys later :)17:46
X-Fadethp: Ok, later!17:46
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M4rtinKX-Fade: I haven't received any mail, but Mieru seems to have made it to the main repo just fine :)17:50
M4rtinKI even see it in the Apps client17:50
X-FadeM4rtinK: Hmm ok, need to check because I got the mail 15 mins ago.17:52
M4rtinKX-Fade: should it go to the email address registered on ?17:55
X-FadeM4rtinK: Yes.17:55
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M4rtinKnothing, even in the spam folder (it's a gmail address)17:56
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M4rtinKX-Fade: also, the icon in the category view is missing:
M4rtinKand the Apps installer shows a white question mark on blue background instead of the icon :)18:00
X-FadeM4rtinK: Yeah, it seems the icon sometimes doesn't get imported correctly. We are debugging that.18:00
M4rtinKX-Fade: ok :)18:01
Corsacdoes someone know if there's a way to cleanup the tracker database?18:07
phakoCorsac: define clean up18:08
Corsacit seems that it still has data for stuff I removed18:08
Corsac(I'm investigating the reasons for #574)18:08
phakooh, stale resources, like artists for music you deleted?18:08
Corsacsomething like that18:08
Corsacthough in this case it's more about .qmf and qmf.bak folders18:09
Corsac(with quite a bunch of emails)18:09
Corsacthe meta.db is around 118M here18:09
phakoCorsac: which bug tracker is that ;)18:09
_MeeGoBot_Bug 574 maj, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, NEW, tracker-store stuck at full CPU and tracker-miner-fs stuck at 1-2%18:09
janmalteM4rtinK: Fixed my problems :) But it seems you already found some to give you a positive review ;)18:09
phakoCorsac: btw, soft-reset == hard-reset on harmattan18:12
Corsacand what's it's supposed to do?18:12
phakokill everything in db18:12
phakosoft-reset trys to replay the journal but that doesn't exist on Harmattan18:13
Corsacwell, here it didn't do anything, it seems18:13
Corsac(though in any case I'd prefer not loosing the real data there, like sms and contacts)18:13
Corsac(as it seems they're kept there)18:13
Corsacso any idea?18:15
phakofor that particular bug? no, also not for a generic clean-up18:15
phakowhat's qmf, btw?18:15
phakoCorsac: other than popping by in the upstream #tracker channel in gimpnet18:17
Corsacmails are store in .qmf apparently18:17
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CorsacI'm puzzled on why I still have stuff on old data there18:18
M4rtinKjanmalte: thanks anyway :) I guess that once I do an update a new round of testing will be needed, so your time might still come :)18:20
Corsacphako: and I assume it's not possible either to only backup SMSes?18:21
phakoCorsac: uh, no idea. you can extract them from tracker somehow but I don't know the magic sparql incantation18:22
Corsacwell, the problem with magic too is that importing them back might be impossible either18:22
M4rtinKX-Fade: are  some AFM usage statistics planed ? something like the Maemo download counters or this unofficial tool for Fremantle:
M4rtinKmight not be that important, just nice to have :)18:25
Corsac(and I'm puzzled by the fact *data* is stored in the tracker, I would have imagined data would be stored something safe and only indexing data would be stored in the tracker)18:25
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faenilhi everyone :)18:45
kevin_bhey guys, playing with QGLView from Qt3D18:47
kevin_bI see some borders in full screen, any experienced that?18:48
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kevin_blike that :
kevin_bthough it s not really noticeable with white background19:05
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itsnotabigtruckso i just noticed all the MSSF stuff (i.e. aegis) is open source19:10
itsnotabigtruckhas anyone tried making a special aegis that neutralizes the nonsense?19:10
dm8tbrno shit sherlock. it's called open mode kernel19:13
itsnotabigtruckdm8tbr: i thought with the open mode kernel half the system is dead precisely because aegis is broken19:14
itsnotabigtruckeverybody was talking about that just the other day19:14
itsnotabigtruckthere was a list on the meego forums that included the MMS app, nokia maps, facebook, the certificate manager, and some other things19:14
dm8tbritsnotabigtruck: as aegis hooks into the high-security _hardware_ you can not roll your own. that's the whole idea.19:14
itsnotabigtruckright, but if the programs don't need to read old stuff off aegisfs, then it ought to be possible to hack up aegis-crypto to not actually use high security hardware on the backend19:15
itsnotabigtruckthat ought to be sufficient for e.g. certmgr stashing certificates and things like that19:15
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itsnotabigtruckof course that won't get any secrets locked inside, out19:18
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kevin_bno one can help?19:38
kevin_bhow could I disable those dirty borders from my QGV19:38
itsnotabigtruckkevin_b: no but note that the borders are invisible if you just view the image in a browser19:39
itsnotabigtruckso that might not be helping to make the problem be obvious19:39
kevin_byes it s no really visible on white background, but it is there 1-2px on my harmattan device19:39
kevin_btryied many things like, disabling meego style, playing with windowFlags, and widget's QQSize before full screen19:40
kevin_bI see the Space Block Qt example from Nokia dev corner19:40
kevin_bit uses a QGLView too and so far I dont see the difference in the code19:41
kevin_bthough it perfectly fit screen without borders19:41
kevin_bconfused me19:41
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amppaaccording to store qa, is not acceptable as a support site20:47
amppaany suggestions for a good alternative?20:47
ajalkanei used github's web thingy, passed20:48
ajalkanekinda funny they don't accept their own hosted site20:49
amppayeah, it is, plus i've seen project that uses it for support20:50
amppathat's how i thought about it in the first place20:50
amppabut thanks, i think i already even have an account at github, i'll check it20:50
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niwakameSo....belated happy new year wishes to everyone :)20:56
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pinheiroguys what is the best way to play a sound in qml?21:22
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Canard|Awayis this room for consumers or developers?21:22
pinheiroi get some bugs out of it if i pay a sound repetedly21:23
niwakameCanard|Away: "Topic is 'A place for harmattan device and development discussions |  Customers help customers on #N9"21:24
Canard|Away¤ Ok!  -0w0- ¤21:24
Canard|Awayim planning to buy n9 but im worried about os updates21:25
merlin1991Canard|Away: 2 things? firstly Away? you're talking, also as the topic states customers over to #N921:26
merlin1991to answer your question though, there will be at least 1 more update21:26
merlin1991(1.2) and maybe a second one21:27
niwakameCanard|Away: Join #N9 and I'll answer you there21:27
pinheiroguys ideas on mine?21:27
merlin1991pinheiro: even though you're on topic I can't help you since I don't do qml :P21:28
niwakameNever used the SoundEffect part, sorry. What problems do arise?21:28
pinheiroSoundEffect{} works but if repeted often produces some noises21:28
pinheironot wanted noises :D21:28
niwakameYou sure the effect finished before firing the next one?21:29
pinheirosince im making a piano perfet reproduction is quida important21:29
pinheiroim sure its not21:29
pinheirothats the idea21:29
niwakamehehe, one moment...21:29
pinheiroworks 95% of the time21:29
pinheirobut wanted to make it perfect21:30
niwakameWe're using pulseaudio backend, right?21:31
pinheiroimport QtMultimediaKit 1.121:31
pinheiroall i know21:31
ieatlintyes, it's all pa21:31
pinheiroi would guess so21:31
niwakameok, I would place my bets on PA handling then21:31
ieatlintyou might need to do the audio playback in c++21:32
niwakameI think the same, this is a somewhat "time critical" application21:32
ieatlintbut i'm under the impression that qaudiooutput is also pretty janky21:32
ieatlintnever used it on the n9, but heard others complain21:32
niwakameYou'd just have to write a playback class and reference that from qml21:32
ieatlintit should be a simple c++ setup though21:33
pinheirowill ask some one to do it :D21:33
niwakamehehe the c++ part isn't that hard21:33
pinheirosince i know zero c++ :D21:33
pinheirojust a sily designer here21:33
ieatlintc++ isn't hard, but linking c++ and qml can be arcane21:33
pinheirostill wondering how i got the muititouch to work :d21:33
niwakameieatlint: really? Never had problems on that one while following the examples21:34
ieatlintniwakame: depends on what you're trying to do21:34
ieatlintpinheiro: see, now if nokia actually worked out all the bugs, they'd have had a phone platform in which designers could create actual apps :P21:35
niwakamepinheiro: see maybe?21:35
pinheiroieatlint:  yes21:35
niwakameI just wasted about 2 hours because of Javascript variable visibility the other day....gosh always such lame errors21:35
pinheirome loves qml i think 90% of designers would love it21:36
ieatlinti'm impressed that example references a qrc21:36
ieatlintis a way of budling arbitrary binaries in with an executable to avoid multiple files21:39
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niwakameGood to know, thanks :)21:39
faenilthough not very secure, you can extract things for the exec without too much hassle21:40
ieatlintpreviously qtmultimediakit has had issues with qrcs, and they're also less common with qml based apps in my experience21:40
niwakameI heave to read in depth about qmake sometime...If anything isn't working in my project setup I just do build-clean - qmake - make and everything's in order again :P21:40
ieatlintlearning qmake in depth requires a certain level of masochism21:41
faenilyou can't make qmake right :P that's the best thing you can do, clean, qmake, make :D21:41
niwakameieatlint: haha xD21:41
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niwakamefaenil: well you could always encrypt your files, get the decryption key by SSL connection, decrypt in memory and display....aehm...NO21:41
ieatlintyeah, especially if you start branching into moc, rcc and uic21:42
faenilniwakame: ehehe21:42
niwakameout for lunch, brb :)21:42
niwakame*bbl that is21:42
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ieatlinti keep hearing cmake is more sane than qmake21:43
ieatlintbut have not looked into it much21:43
faenilme too, haven't understood why they have not replaced it yet21:43
faenilme neither21:43
ieatlinti certainly wouldn't mind avoiding automake and getting the build progress indicator on large projects21:44
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PiruI got my N9 replaced and trying to restore the backup leads to some issues21:55
Pirufailed to fetch exec: ////usr/bin/osa --get 'some-ovi-package' sub-process returned sn error code21:55
ieatlintwas the phone that you did the backup on pr1.0 or pr1.1, and is the phone you have pr1.0 or pr1.1?21:57
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Pirupr1.1 and I've flashed the new phone to pr1.121:58
Pirunote that it was a physically different phone. maybe that b0rks stuff?21:58
ieatlinti doubt that.. the error message would be more clear i would think21:59
Piruinterestingly I was able to install the devel packages etc21:59
ieatlintbut not sure, not really done any restores21:59
Pirujust the ovi store stuff appears to be in limbo.21:59
CorsacPiru: how long did it take to get the replacement?22:00
Corsac(and what was the reason?)22:00
Piruthe phone started to drop the inet/phone22:01
Pirurandomly. would lose it several times per day22:01
Piruhotswapping the SIM or rebooting would bring it back22:01
Piruit was first in repair for 6 days, got it back and it failed the next day, same issue. so again gave it for repairs, and I got a new one the next day22:02
faenilhow come there's no update to 4.8 in the sdk yet?22:02
Piru(that was earlier today)22:02
Pirutoo bad I can't restore the backup. damn it22:02
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Piruhmm wtf22:05
Piruin Store app "My stuff" there's a "Sign in" button. doesn't do anything though22:05
Piruso it looks as if I'm not logged in to ovi?22:05
Pirubloody hell22:06
Pirustupid thing22:06
Piruso this is what happened22:06
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Piru(for the record)22:07
Piruskype was asking for my password22:07
Pirunow I finally said "cancel" to that22:07
Piruand guess what, now pops up "Sign in to Nokia-account"22:07
PiruI bet after signing in it will work okay.. damned annoying that the skype-login blocks the restore22:08
Piruok can download and install apps now. what a stupid oversight22:11
PiruI guess I'll report that as a bug. while not clearly one it sure is confusing22:11
faenilguys is there a way to return a couple of values in JS?22:12
faenillike return (x, y)22:12
SpeedEvilreturn a data structure22:13
Shadikkareturn [x, y], return {"x":x, "y":y}22:13
Pirugoogle is your friend22:13
faenilok just that way22:13
faenilalready gave a quick look up google ofc... :P22:14
faenilbtw, thanks :)22:14
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faenilwonder if Qt c++ side will understand that the [ value1, value2 ] that I'm using to call the c++ function is a QPoint :D22:21
faeniltrying :D22:21
LilltigerQPoint(value1.toDouble(),value2.toDouble()) or so i guess, as i suppose the values sent from the script is considered to be QVariants22:27
faenilbut it should be autoconverted22:28
faeniljust like you can call function(12345) and function is22:28
faenilvoid function(int value){ }22:28
Lilltigerwell better to tell the function what type it is, so the function wont do any conversation22:29
faenilwhich function? I'm already telling c++ it's a QPoint (QVector2D actually)22:30
faenilbut I guess it will work the way I'm using :D22:30
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faenilmmm not working :D22:35
faenilI get 0,0 xD22:35
Lilltigerdebug the qvariant and check if it holds a value22:39
faenilconsol.log obviously prints the right value...22:41
faenilwhile point.x() and y() print 0,022:41
faenilso it's not converting it, or not doing it correctly in any case22:41
ZogG_laptophey guys22:41
faenilhi :22:42
Lilltigerfaenil, use the qvariant built in stuff then22:44
faenilyeah :)22:44
tommafaenil, how about ? i think c++ should see that as qpoint?22:46
Canard|Awayanyone here who is in #n9 also?22:47
faeniltomma: never used that, thanks :)22:48
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer is in all channels of freenode22:48
ZogG_laptopdoes qml knows to understand qstringlist or json?22:49
DocScrutinizerno, I'm *everywhere*22:49
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: =*22:49
faenilthe docs say a lot about passing things from C++ to qml and conversions...22:56
faenilbut not viceversa22:56
faenildoes anyone know a doc/page that explains possible conversions from qml to c++ and the stuff about functions?22:59
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faenil reports almost nothing about that23:00
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niwakameZogG_laptop: JSON23:10
niwakameyou can use JSON.parse(data)23:10
niwakameaccess to objects would be result.variable.secondvariable if var result = JSON.parse(data)23:11
niwakamenp, there is even a prewritten 3rd party JSON parser for requests23:12
niwakameI could dig that out for you, if you need23:12
niwakameHandles all the XmlHttpRequest thingys23:13
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niwakameZogG_laptop: if happy with LGPL, maybe try this one:
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ZogG_laptopniwakame: i can parse in C++ but the question is how to easily return array of names to qml23:22
Corsacgrmbl, restoring a backup doesn't replace tracker.db23:22
niwakamestring array?23:23
amppaZogG_laptop: if you emit a QStringList in C++, it will be seen as a js string array in QML23:24
niwakamehebrew? ^^23:25
niwakameThat's a positive, I've just earned the Unicode Detection Perk!23:26
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ZogG_laptopniwakame: yes it is hebrew23:31
niwakameDoes someone know about in-app advertising on N9?23:32
ZogG_laptopamppa: thanks, but if it's easy to parse json in qml i send it as string23:32
niwakameApprox. amount of data you're going to parse at once?23:32
niwakameout for a smoke, brb23:33
ZogG_laptopniwakame: a lot i think, need to parse hot gallery of imgur23:35
niwakameI parsed 80 google picasa json results in no time23:38
niwakameuntil I noticed that Picasa doesn't support "Recent first" ordering ... the bug is open since 2008 xD23:39 shouldn't have a problem with that23:39
ZogG_laptopniwakame: in qt? may i see?23:44
niwakamehrhr my dev laptop is switched off, but I can ... wait *tinkering*23:46
niwakamejust use the example like on the page23:47
niwakameprepare a ListModel23:48
niwakamein success function, do var result = JSON.parse(data)23:48
niwakamethen interate over results, doing theListModel.append(entry[i])23:48
niwakameand use that ListModel as a model for a GridView23:48
niwakamesimple as that23:48
jreznikyep, that's easiest way how to parse json... or a trick - if you really have to do it C++ and you can't use qjson for some reason - just use QScriptEngine and engine.evaluate ;-)23:51
niwakamethat should be it23:53
niwakameon the ListDelegate you can then just use the object structure beneath each entry23:54
niwakameso if it's {images[{"url": } {"url":}]}23:54
niwakamedeclare Image { source: url; }23:55
niwakameQML is totally easy in that regard23:56
niwakameWas fun coding23:57
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