IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2012-01-02

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ieatlintwell, i've sobered up a bit... happy new year04:35
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ieatlintok, i've now learnt that the n9 is the best phone i've owned for reading barcodes... the low light sharpness of the camera is pretty impressive12:34
marsjeis there a common component that you can use to read bar codes12:36
marsjeso you can make an app that does something useful with the bar codes?12:37
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ieatlintyes, there's a library12:40
ninnnumarsje: MeeScan uses libldmtx and libzbar12:40
ieatlintit's not part of harmattan, but it's what the n900's mbarcode used and what i presume meescan on the n9 uses12:40
ieatlintyeah, libzbar is what i was thinking of12:40
mgedminoh, there are now apps for reading barcodes? cool12:41
* mgedmin would head over to the ovi store to check them out, but ovi store is ... painful12:42
ieatlintmight be available outside of it12:42
marsjeI have some problems with the ovi store...12:43
marsjethe error I get is: "Can't install. Unable to continue installation due to unresolved error"12:45
marsjewhen downloading an app12:45
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grimarsje: "an app" or meescan?13:02
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* mgedmin just installed meescan from ovi store13:09
SpeedEvilIs anyone aware of anything that will simply log all scanned barcodes to a flat text file.13:11
DocScrutinizer51on N900 yep13:13
SpeedEvilI never got mbarcode to do that - if that's what you meant13:13
DocScrutinizer51need a dirt simple plugin I guess13:13
SpeedEvilNot feeling energtic enough.13:14
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marsjegri: any app14:09
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marsjegri: last thing I tried to install was "Find Differences Aigio"14:12
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ajalkaneWhat is Is it only for Nokians or mere mortals too?14:30
SpeedEvilmortals too14:31
ajalkaneso you can register somewhere to access it?14:32
ajalkaneany idea where? MeeScan seems to be hosted there and I'd like to do something to it14:34
SpeedEvilI may have been thinking of garage14:34
SpeedEvilprojects times out at the momnt14:34
mgedminis meescan open source?14:34
dm8tbrAFAIK that's for people working on maemo/harmattan only14:34
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ajalkanemgedmin: I don't know. But in it's qml directory they forgot .svn which points to svn repo at projects.maemo.org14:35
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jonniajalkane: do you have the svn url? :)14:41
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jonniah yes limited access14:47
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ajalkaneThanks. Too bad. Maybe hacking just qml file is enough, have to see.14:55
amppai implemented barcode scanner to my application with zxing14:55
amppano idea how that compares to zbar14:55
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amppazxing is apache 2.0, but i had to use some code from qt to implement decoding of the camera's video stream15:03
amppawhich of course makes it lgpl15:03
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ajalkaneamppa: what does your app do? My only qualm with MeeScan is that it's hard to transfer the scanned barcodes to computer15:07
ajalkaneif it could at least write the scanned codes to file in MyDocs, that would make it easier15:08
amppascans the code and searches a remote database for a matching product15:10
amppaso it's a feature inside the application, not a generic barcode scanner15:10
jonniand you can copy it to clipboard, so you can transfer to file15:11
ajalkanejonni: yeah I know, but it's a bit too many steps15:13
amppai will publish the source code of the scanner part, but you'd of course have to write the application to actually use it yourself15:14
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ajalkaneI don't have time to start writing a new application. If I can hack MeeScan's QML to do it, that's as far as I'm going to go. But I don't know if file writing is available from QML15:15
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amppano, there's no file I/O in QML15:17
TronicI've been playing with the free Lumia today but the UX isn't nearly as good as on N950.15:17
jonniajalkane: console.log() to screen or import custom c++ plugin from the qml :)15:17
vandenoeverTronic: and no usb mass storage15:17
TronicWell, the browser is fast and so is the device in general, that's a huge benefit over N9/N950.15:17
ajalkaneTronic: I've had it over a week and it's just boring UX at least to me. I haven't been at all excited to use it.15:18
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Tronic... but no USB mass storage as vandenoever said. There are plenty of little but annoying things. One is problematic Live account creation + multiple login forms (one for the store, another on web for payments).15:19
TronicAlso it wouldn't accept my credit card details for some reason and would clear the form when re-requesting the details (and re-filling it didn't help).15:20
ajalkanejonni: ah... I guess console.log is as complex as I want to go :)15:20
Tronicajalkane: I think that boring is good.15:20
dm8tbralso if you set a 'region' for store, it will reset the _language_ for all your M$ accounts15:20
vandenoeverTronic: i'm trying to avoid all account creation for the phone15:21
vandenoeverTronic: it's really scary how much the device relies on connectivity15:21
Tronicdm8tbr: Yes, the locale settings seem to be somewhat retarded on this device. Also I found it strange that the first time startup wizard wanted to restart the device if I chose anything else than English (United Kingdom).15:21
vandenoeverand the message "Send browsing history to Microsoft (yes/no)" on first start of IE is really awful15:21
Tronicdm8tbr: One would think that locale changes could be done on fly, or at the very least they would make the first time startup handle that without the user noticing.15:22
Tronicvandenoever: The buttons of that were [Accept] and [Cancel], which suggests that the other option doesn't allow you to start IE.15:23
vandenoeveryes, but cancel does in fact start IE15:23
TronicI also hate it how the phone throws various EULAs at you all the time.15:23
TronicYup, pressed Cancel myself, of course.15:24
vandenoeveronly reason i'm keeping it is to compare the office functionality with calligra and webodf15:24
TronicAlso I had to use the phone offline for a while and noticed that you can do pretty much nothing without a connection.15:24
TronicNavigation won't even start, etc.15:24
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vandenoeveryes, well, i'm not allowing this hostile device on my local wifi15:24
faenilI'm very happy about the Lumia's UX15:25
TronicBtw, have you figured out how to transfer files to it (since USB storage is not supported)?15:25
faenilI have started reading emails on the phone instead of the notebook15:25
vandenoeveri tried via bluetooth but while linux recognized that the device was there , there was no file transfer option15:26
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faenileverything is buttery smooth15:27
ajalkanethe e-mail client is good on lumia15:28
faenilthat's what I miss on N9/N95015:28
ajalkaneit's easy to be smooth with the kind of "multitasking" it has.15:28
ajalkaneI find using it frustrating15:28
ajalkaneswitching applications is annoying15:29
ajalkaneBut some of the applications included are good, and the metro interface works mostly well15:29
ajalkaneIt also has much more fart apps than Harmattan15:29
ajalkaneSo it's a keeper for me.15:29
vandenoeverwriting apps is only with c#, no?15:30
* vandenoever really likes qml15:30
ajalkaneyes. Or I guess any .net app should be fine?15:30
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vandenoeverajalkane: c++ in .net is not really c++ due to many language features not being allowed15:31
* MohammadAG really dislikes qml15:31
faenilajalkane: I actually prefer having a limited multitasking than seeing lags in the basic apps15:32
faenilsuch as phonebook, sms, etc15:32
ajalkanefaenil: yeah. Can't argue about preferences.15:33
vandenoeverthe lumia makes me feel like a drone in the microsoft borg15:33
faenil:) yeah I'm all about 60fps in the UI15:33
faenilthat's what makes me want to use a smartphone to do essential things15:33
MohammadAGiOS > WP15:33
faenilMohammadAG: agree if u're talking of 4S15:34
MohammadAGeven a 4 is enough15:34
faenil4S is superior to everything out there15:34
MohammadAGI have an iPad 2 so I kinda know how fast it is15:34
faenilbut in any case, I don't get free 4S, and it costs too much15:34
MohammadAGit's not as fast as you're making it feel15:34
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faenilis there anything laggy in the main functions?15:35
vandenoeverthe headphones as horrible clicks when using the ui15:36
MohammadAGfaenil, no but the same applies to the iPhone 415:36
MohammadAGiOS's main UI uses a lot of threads15:37
MohammadAGthat's why it barely lags15:37
faenilMohammadAG: I wonder why none has reached that level of smoothness yet15:37
Tronicfaenil: I would not call Lumia laggy in any case but it does have lag spikes.15:38
MohammadAGcause no sane developer thinks about using 26+ threads15:38
Tronicfaenil: Not nearly as bad as N9 but not as good as iPhone either.15:38
MohammadAGhow the fuck do they debug that15:38
faenilTronic: I agree, that's what I said at the beginning, I'm using Lumia as my main phone because it doesn't lag in the main functions which are the ones I use most15:38
faenilTronic: exactly15:38
MohammadAGiPhone's my main phone15:38
Tronicfaenil: I've got lag in tile menu with no apps running. already.15:39
MohammadAGI do all communications on the N950 though15:39
MohammadAGexcept Whatsapp and the closed shit like that15:39
Tronicfaenil: Mildly annoying but nothing that would actually affect usability.15:39
faenilTronic: I don't have lag in the tiles menu atm, but plan to keep it clean :D15:39
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faenilMohammadAG: do you have a Lumia?15:41
MohammadAGfaenil, new order15:41
faeniloh ok :)15:41
faenilwe'll talk again when you get it then, if you ever will, taking into account your customs :D15:42
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MohammadAGit's not a customs issue15:43
MohammadAGit's a nokia one right now15:43
faenilyeah I know, I got that ^^15:44
faenilhave you tried sending an email to
MohammadAGHi Mohammad,15:45
MohammadAGI think we need to use the Nokia office to get the shipment through.15:45
MohammadAGI'll add a note to your order saying this.15:45
faenil?? :O15:45
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faenilok :D15:45
MohammadAGthat was on the 27th15:46
MohammadAGlast year15:46
faeniland still new order...15:46
faenilanyway, I think the keyboard is another great point to the Lumia15:49
faenilit seems to understand what I want to write, it just works15:49
faenilN9's dictionary doesn't even know common words in my language! That's sad :(15:50
faenilespecially it keeps correcting with strange words, and not the most common ones15:50
faenilespecially when*15:50
lizardoMohammadAG, faenil : should I be worried if my order is still "new order" status since I created it on 20/dec (no emails since then) ? I assume the delay is because of holidays15:53
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faenilit could be, but sending an email to that address won't hurt :D15:58
lizardofaenil: will do, just in case I was forgotten in the flood :)15:59
faenilexactly :D15:59
faenilI sent the email and my order was shipped 10 mins later :D16:00
lizardoBTW, is totally unrelated to ?16:00
faenilguess so16:01
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KleggasHas anyone experience on using qml object TextInput on N9? I run same code on pc as on n9 (except on pc I uncomment the meego import) and it acts different on phone, in none-desired way. Probably my fault, but can't find it...16:17
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wirwehi, is there an explanation for the modules that lsmod lists on n9? i want to know the name of the camera/front-camera modules.17:11
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vandenoeverhmm it seems to run ones own apps on one's own phone one needs a $75 dollar app hub license17:36
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jreznikvandenoever: for nokia devels it should be $1 for the first year17:43
vandenoeverjreznik: yes, but that still require telling nokia and microsoft my credit card number17:44
vandenoeverthis device is basically a digital set of handcufs17:44
jreznikvandenoever: for ovi, you had do it too...17:44
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vandenoeverjreznik: true, and i hesitated a long time before doing that17:46
jreznikvandenoever: but yeah, I was trying to sync n9 contacts to lumia - fail, using bt and nokia app... so I wanted to sync it with Zimbra behind vpn, no way, fail on n9 too btw but I can log to our wpa-2-ent network and do it there - again fail with lumia :)17:46
vandenoevertelling my credit card to microsoft is a bridge too far17:46
faeniljreznik: I had no problem with contact syncing between n9 and lumia with contacts transfer17:46
faeniljreznik: about the $1, that's just a rebate17:47
vandenoeveri enabled usb mass storage on the device now, but docx or odf documents are not seen by the device17:48
jreznikfaenil: don't know where the problem is, I just wanted to try lumia in real env. using it daily but looks like it's not a device for me and my use cases :) I don't even have windows, so no zune, no zune -> you can't use it nearly at all17:49
jreznikafter being to nokia/ms hackathon and listening to marketing talk about mango, I expected much more :) I know - marketing and sales :)17:49
faenilI just need it for webbrowsing + emails + txts, and I'm finding it awesome :D17:49
jreznikbrowser is better than that from n917:50
faenilit actually worked all times here...don't know what kind of problem you encountered :)17:50
faenilall things I have written are better on the lumia, yeah ;:D17:50
faenilI agree that WP7.5 is still tooooo immature though :D too many things missing ^^17:51
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jreznikfaenil: yep, it would be great to see a merge of harmattan and mango, more opened, more featured, more matured but as fast as mango and no titles like for blind people :) I can imagine it... now nokia has several unfinished os - mango, harmattan, belle, meltemi...17:53
jreznik(that said my gf, she has veer, so she thought it's a device for seniors :-)17:54
jreznikbtw. anyone was able to play rtmp stream on harmattan? even rtsp fails for me with that stream...17:55
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RST38hMEANWHILE: HP Insiders Claim WebOS Was Doomed From The Start18:04
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RST38hMeanwhile: Alec Liu of Fox News reports that Amazon, Facebook and Google are considering a coordinated a coordinated blackout of the internet to protest SOPA, the Stop Online Privacy Act being debated in Congress.18:28
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* RST38h moos at javispedro and MohammadAG19:16
* MohammadAG moos at RST38h 19:16
MohammadAGjavispedro, ssu chan19:16
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BluesLeeon the n9 i can backup my files but how to restore those files?:-)20:13
BluesLeethere is no restore of those backups in the settings ... i set up windows xp with virtual box and installed nokia pc suite, but the n9 is not on the list of supported devices20:15
BluesLeei guess i am wrong and there is a simple solution without using a terminal or did nokia forget to implement this?20:16
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ajalkaneBluesLee: there is restore backup on device20:24
ajalkanesame place where you make backup20:25
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BluesLeeperfect, my mistake: nokia suite = nokia ovi suite <> nokia pc suite20:26
BluesLeeajalkane: and another one, thanx20:27
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BluesLeeokay, nokia pc suite <> nokia link, damn ...20:29
RST38h"Sherlock" S02E01 on TV *right now*!20:30
* SpeedEvil wonders WTF it's not showing up on iplayer20:30
RST38hToo bad they kinda fucked up the translation...20:30
RST38hSpeed: Because it is not showing on a BBC channel?20:30
BluesLeeajalkane: i will stay with a restore on the n9 as nokia link only supports windows 7 and i have xp in vbox, crazy stuff20:31
SpeedEvilSure it is20:32
SpeedEvilget_iplayer diddn't pull it though20:32
* SpeedEvil kicks off another pvr run20:33
ajalkaneyeah i have only linux and xp too. Never used link20:33
RST38hSpeedEvil: just get a torrent20:33
BluesLeeajalkane: it says i should use nokia link but nokia pc suite seems to work well20:34
SpeedEvilRST38h: torrent is too much work, it should 'just work'20:35
SpeedEvilI have about 20 different programs auto-downloaded20:36
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RST38hSpeed:Torrent just works.20:38
SpeedEvilI know.20:38
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javispedroBluesLee: Link already supports XP21:27
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itsnotabigtruckanyone know if the N9 has voip integrated, like s60 does?21:47
fralscomes with SIP21:47
Jareyes it has sip, xmpp/jingle and skype integrated21:48
Jarevideo support isn't implemented though21:48
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itsnotabigtruckJare frals: hmm, does it have any crypto support (SRTP/SDES, ZRTP, etc.)21:48
itsnotabigtruckargh, i'm trying to find the answers for myself but nothing (doesn't help that google keeps relaxing important terms out of my searched)21:52
Jareitsnotabigtruck: well it seemed to support sip tls + srtp, but it didn't work out of the box with freeswitch. Anyway imo that was an issue with freeswitch, because the sip messages of n9 seemed to be rfc3261 compliant21:56
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Jarei haven't examined it much though, since i'm using an openvpn tunnel for sip22:00
itsnotabigtruckJare: so sdes only...well, that's better than nothing. any idea if there's any hooks to plug voip programs etc. into the dialer?22:02
itsnotabigtrucka la the skype implementation22:03
itsnotabigtruckor is all that just hardcoded into the closed source part of the firmware22:03
dm8tbryou might get away with telepathy modules22:05
dm8tbrthere is not that much documentation22:05
itsnotabigtruckand dm8tbr: hmm, that might be worth looking into22:08
RST38hAnd season: Tajik religious fanatics killed Santa.22:08
fralsitsnotabigtruck: should be possible afaik22:09
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Jarewell i haven't tested zrtp. Srtp uses aes as the default cipher and tls to secure sip protocol, so i don't really get why that wouldn't be secure enough for everyone22:10
itsnotabigtruckJare: because under SDES, the server sees the key22:10
itsnotabigtruckso if the server isn't fully trusted, and it usually isn't, you get owned22:11
itsnotabigtrucknote that when people talk about "srtp" they usually mean sdes, the other protocols (like zrtp) uses srtp too22:11
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Jareah, i'm using my own sip server ;)22:11
itsnotabigtruckyeah but you can't get everyone on the planet on your sip server, and what if your server is on a VPS22:12
itsnotabigtruckanyway, bbl, thanks for the info22:13
RzRJare: i can recieve skype call but cant create some can you ?22:13
JareRzR: at least the echo123 works atm22:18
RzRi didnt manage how to use it ? it said account disabled22:21
RzRanyway i dont care i am happy w/ sip22:21
javispedroRST38h: you read the webos-bashing on slashdot? =)22:21
RST38hjavispedro: I do not read slashdot, it is bad for one's soul22:22
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RST38hjavispedro: But yes, a few HP/Palm employees have played Cpt Obvious today and revealed...well... the obvious22:32
javispedrothen an apple fanboy wrote the article and you the flaming started22:35
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itsnotabigtruckso how did you guys procure your N9s? the idea of laying down $600 on a phone that isn't going to recieve much commercial support from nokia isn't that appealing23:05
itsnotabigtruckthough i understand some euro carriers are offering it on contract at much lower prices23:05
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mprwhere can you get one for $600?23:05
mprthey're more like EUR600 in here23:06
mproh, actually you can get a 16GB one for EUR500 already, prices have come down a bit23:07
itsnotabigtruckmpr: some amazon reseller has them for $550 (16 gigs)23:11
itsnotabigtrucknewegg has them for $58023:11
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itsnotabigtrucki almost expected them to cost less in europe, given that the ones in the us are 3rd party imports afaik...silly me :p23:11
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itsnotabigtruckoh, are you counting VAT? make sure to subtract that23:12
mprwell europe has VAT so everything is at least around 20% more expensive in here :)23:12
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mpra bit silly that it would make sense to order a n9 here through some us shipping service or buy one on a trip to the us even though it's produced here :)23:15
itsnotabigtruckso E500 * .8 = E400 = $517.8023:15
itsnotabigtruckso if they're going for 500 euros, that costs less if you un-vat it23:15
itsnotabigtruckthough international shipping and currency conversion surcharges probably cancel out the gain23:16
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TronicN9 64 GB costs 549 € in Finland now (post-xmas prices).23:34
merlin1991Tronic: 530 in vienna :)23:35
Corsacthat reminds me I need to send mine to nokia care23:35
Tronic530 € at, apparently.23:35
Corsacand deal without smartphone for a month or so :(23:36
merlin1991Corsac: no backup n900 for when the n9 has to go to care (like mine)23:36
mgedminCorsac, what happened to it?23:36
jonneanyone know which countries have the white one yet?23:36
TronicThat model cost 699 € only two weeks ago.23:37
jonnei only saw finland so far23:37
Corsacmerlin1991: I've given my n900 to my wife23:37
Corsacmgedmin: it comes from handtec, and started to exhibit the random reboots some other people have had23:37
jonnemy N900 didn't take the heat well in Haiti and I need to replace it soonish23:37
Corsacwell, “random”, sometime 4/5 in a row23:37
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TronicI don't really know what to do with all the phones. I would give away the N900 if someone (friends etc) genuinely wanted it but they all consider the device obsolete, and also I still have some use for it due to the limited software selection that the N950 has. I want to keep the N950 to myself at least until I get a N9 instead, as there simply aren't any better phones, so I cannot give that one away (even though half of my ...23:49
Tronic... friends would like to buy it). Then there is the Lumia that I don't like, that isn't worth much and that I don't want to give to nice people. Also I still want to familiarize myself with it.23:49
macmaNTronic: :> wanna consider your estonian buddy?23:49
macmaNi need a maemo5 test device23:50
TronicWell, I *have* met you IRL :P23:51
TronicHowever, I was thinking more of close friends and family, people who I see daily.23:51
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TronicAnyway, nowadays one can buy a N900 for 100 € or so.23:52
ieatlinttoo many phones eh?23:52
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macmaNyeah i hear you re keeping it in the fam. it wasnt immediately obvious whether you wanted the device to actually be development-style useful with someone.23:53
macmaNother than that, yeah, 100€ about does it these days23:53
macmaNif one could only solder more RAM onto that thing..23:53
TronicI don't think that developing for that device at this time is beneficial. The hardware is disappearing already as Nokia keep warranty replacing them with other devices, and it is genuinely obsolete.23:54
TronicN9 with Aegis removed is a good replacement.23:55
merlin1991but the platform itself is so easily modable23:55
TronicSupplement with a BT keyboard if you must.23:55
merlin1991before I see usb host mode on n9 it is not a replacement23:55
thpmerlin1991: did you get your n9 back from nokia care already?23:55
merlin1991hoping I get it before the 10th23:55
merlin1991I do got some nfc tags though23:56
thp:) great23:56
merlin1991so I can at least hack something up in sb snatch your device and test it :D23:56
thpi'll bring my n950 and you can test with the n9 if you do nfc stuff23:56
thpwhich reminds me, i should probably announce it on the blog too23:57
merlin1991could be an idea23:57
ieatlintsomething fun happening on the 10th?23:59
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merlin1991ieatlint: yep, hacklab of the local n9 owners in vienna :)23:59
macmaNhuh, another one thp?23:59
ieatlintah, another metalab event23:59
ieatlintbastards :P23:59

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