IRC log of #harmattan for Monday, 2011-12-12

tommai use it when i am lazy and dont want to write model in c++00:01
jonniRichlv: there is merge option inside contacts app00:02
Richlvjonni, that only seems to allow to merge two manually selected contacts00:03
Richlvdoesn't work with a total of 1k or so contacts :D00:03
Richlv(not mine, trying to help somebody)00:03
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z720who manager to boot in rescue mode for N9 with ehci_hcd (USB2) mode ?08:19
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ieatlintis the 40-4 image available for the n9 without using something like navifirm?09:20
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tommanot anywhere public but it can be found using google09:27
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ieatlintyeah, just wanted to see if nokia had actually released it yet09:42
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Venemo_N950I think I've just made the fastest qml app in existence.10:29
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tommaieatlint, i dont think they will "release" those as you can always use NSU to update your device (if you have windows)10:46
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Richlvieatlint, if you have some idea on how to bomb nokia with requests to provide images in a decent format/way without forcing use of some crappy win-only soft... :)10:52
* mgedmin wants a Fuelpad port to Harmattan for Christmas10:52
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griVenemo_N950: an empty view? :)11:03
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djszapigri: you plugin is a bit buggy, you know ? web2sms, that is11:11
gridjszapi: in what way?11:12
djszapiI think best to take a look at my code at some point.11:12
djszapithere are more issues...11:12
griwhat exactly is buggy? For me it never crashed or produced errors11:13
grialso all my testers did not complain11:13
griso you found something I did never see :)11:13
djszapihard to find a bug about a missing feature that should normally be there.11:13
grithat is?11:13
djszapior hard to get crashed what is not there, but should be11:13
djszapiX-Fade: ping11:14
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Venemo_N950gri, puzzle-master11:15
gridjszapi: What's the feature you're missing?11:15
Venemo_N950gri, it's (to my surprise) very snappy and it also launches virtually instantly.11:15
djszapigri: I do not have time right now for explaining it11:16
djszapiit is not 2 mins.11:16
Venemo_N950I'll make a .deb available once it's feature complete11:16
gridjszapi: Ok but don't take my plugin as example since it only supports the minimum functionality I needed to get my program working11:17
griVenemo_N950: My girlfriend loves puzzles and will steal my n9 if you publish that :/11:17
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djszapigri: even for a minimal functionality, things are missing11:18
gridjszapi: I am curious what you found :)11:18
djszapialso, regroupping in the list might be forbidden by Ovi.11:19
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Termanagri, I believe djszapi is going to explain to you at some other point in time that you have forgotten to include the kitchen sink11:20
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gridjszapi: regrouping? you mean that order thing I don't use? :)11:21
gridjszapi: or the "sub-provider" list?11:21
djszapiordering might be not supported by Ovi which indeed takes an effect on the design.11:22
griwell ovi already stalled qa since they believe they need a german sim card for testing11:22
djszapiI would not like to expose things in my plugin "randomly", if I cannot define the order.11:22
griI wonder how my testers from ireland and spain have done testing then :P11:23
djszapisince it means they can have whatever order.11:23
gridjszapi: I do not use ordering of accounts in any way11:23
djszapiI am the wrong person to talk to about it, I have no idea why they need german sim card.11:23
djszapiYou should really ask them, not me :)11:23
djszapigri: yes, but I use, remember ?11:23
gridjszapi: Sure but you talked about there's something wrong with my plugin11:24
djszapithat is a different matter11:24
griah ok11:24
djszapiI am not too concerned on that, if my plugin works :)11:24
djszapibut sadly, ordering might be not an option...11:24
djszapiso I need to re-design it11:24
griI am not convinced the ovi qa knows that kind of things like "hey, this guy uses custom ordering"11:25
grisince they did not understand how to test my program11:25
djszapiit is simple to check, right ?11:25
djszapiit is a simple etc installation entry int oa definite location, remember ?11:25
griyes and why should this be forbidden?11:26
djszapibecause it was not designed that way ?11:26
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djszapiand the official stuff should come first ?11:26
gridjszapi: Then don't put your stuff at the front? :)11:27
djszapidoes not help, because ordering was not designed for this11:27
djszapiofficial stuff is allowed to do that, and custom stuff cannot reorder anything, they are just put into the lsit11:28
djszapias they come..11:28
griI think they should atleast allow any positive number11:29
grisince the official applications are negative ones11:29
djszapiI do not think that is any good11:30
djszapisince there would be a ratrace for zero or one, whatever.11:30
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CreteilHi all12:08
CreteilCan someone point me to a detailed explanation of the 'Developer Mode' ? I have already activated it, but where I can have information about all options like 'Debugging', 'Networking', 'Resource usage analisys', etc ...12:08
griwhat information?12:08
griwhat's included in "debugging"?12:08
chouchouneif you click on install on each option, it lists packages that will be installed12:09
chouchounein debugging, there is maemo-debug-scri[ts and gdb12:09
Creteilgri, actually I have activated the developer mode, but after that I can see many options available with an 'Install' button in front ...12:09
chouchouneon networking, it lists tcpdump12:09
Creteilchouchoune, ok niquel ..12:09
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Creteilchouchoune, I didn't want to click on button before knowing what things installed ...12:10
chouchouneno idea if you can see more : maybe look at the packages directly12:10
chouchounebut I don't know where they're located12:11
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mgedminCreteil, basically, enabling developer mode installs (1) an xterm, (2) openssh server and client, and (3) SDK Connectivity Tool12:11
mgedminall the other options are extras12:11
Creteilmgedmin, yep but strace, gdb and many others 'extras' look like 'mandatory' IMHO ... :-)12:12
CreteilWell ...12:12
mgedmingood point, maybe my list is incomplete12:13
mgedminIIRC the QtCreator IDE has some magic remote debugging capabilities12:13
mgedminso maybe gdb is also installed automatically12:13
mgedminto enable that to work out of the box12:13
chouchouneit's with Debugging12:13
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CreteilI have read meego forum about installation of 'openvpn' on the N9, but it look like it was not already completely properly packaged ...12:14
mgedminhave I maybe manually installed things like strace and gdb with apt-get install then?12:14
* mgedmin scratches head12:14
mgedminI'll shut up now12:14
chouchounemmmhhh, unless Debugging is automatically installed with developer mode ;)12:15
chouchouneas it's installed on my phone, it may be the case : I don't remember what exactly I activated now ;)12:15
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CreteilI have ported many packages under the N900, and trying to install devel scratchbox for N9 it break the installation of my scratchbox for N900 ... Someone know how I can use the 2 without troubles ?12:18
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* mgedmin wants to know too!12:20
mgedminI only have a harmattan scratchbox on this machine12:20
mgedminpeople sometimes ask me to update some of my old fremantle packages; I'd like to oblige them12:21
mgedminwhat we need is an updated version of this recipe:
mgedminoh, it was updated for fremantle, cool!12:21
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* mgedmin will try it out later12:22
CreteilI also read some informations about current installation of openvpn under the N9, with the aegis trick, but it's not evident if there is an installation like 'apt-get install openvpn' that work out of the box ...12:23
mecewhat's in the developer-mode software update?12:24
meceCreteil, mgedmin, I have both. I just installed new and setup the two targets. Followed some instructions from developer library iirc12:25
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Creteilmece, you mean, I have to remove the old one, then install the new one, and finally under the new one setup 'fremantle' & 'harmattan' targets ? True ?12:27
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* mgedmin ran the Python installer for the harmattan scratchbox SDK, which set up two harmattan targets12:30
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CreteilDoes I am mad or the instructions for installing 'openvpn' here are strange :
CreteilWhy I need to add a repository, install a package, then install manually another one with dpkg ?12:31
CreteilWouldn't be better to just install the last one with dpkg ?12:31
meceCreteil, dunno, but that's how I did it.12:31
meceCreteil, I upgraded my computer at the same time and my sb had some problems so I just backed up my sb home and removed the whole thing12:32
mgedminCreteil, my guess would be that the last deb is not available from any repository12:32
Creteilmgedmin, ok I can understand that, but that doesn't explain why I need to install a 'not functional' in terms of aegis compatibility before installing the right one ...12:34
petteriso I got developer mode update on my N9. Any idea what was included with that?12:34
mgedminagain, my *guess* would be that the apt-get install pulls in some dependencies form the same repo12:34
Creteilmgedmin, ok ...12:34
mgedminso you could perhaps add the repo to sources.list, dpkg -i the last deb, then apt-get install -f12:34
mgedmin(and if apt-get install -f does nothing, then the repo turns out to be unnecessary after all)12:35
Creteilmgedmin, do you know if packaging for N9 is easy has packaging for N900 ?12:36
mgedminit's the same12:37
mgedmina bit harder, maybe, because you may have to add aegis manifests12:37
Creteilmgedmin, I mean, actually, I have just to start my scratchbox, build my package, and 'dput' my package in 'devel-extras' ...12:37
mgedminand a bit easier, perhaps, because when you use QtCreator, it does the packaging for you (in a really crappy way, tho)12:38
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mgedminthere's no extras-devel for harmattan12:38
mgedminthere's Community OBS, which is something new to me12:38
mgedminwhich means everyone can get his/her own apt repo on the COBS server somewhere12:38
mgedminwith really ugly long inconvenient URLs12:39
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mgedminand rzr (IIRC) opened his own repo to be shared by everyone until we get something resembling the old extras12:39
Creteilmgedmin, damn it look like some months pass before I understand all the new way of making packages :-(12:40
mgedmin _making_ packages is the same; _sharing_ them with the world is what changed12:40
decibyteis something like extras(/dev/test) planned?12:41
Creteilmgedmin, by making I want to say from the 1st step (patching, building, etc, packaging) to the last one (send it to a repository) ...12:42
decibytei love the concept of the community responsiblity to promote packages12:42
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mgedminI think people are working on it, but I don't know, really12:53
mgedminI'm really bad at focusing on one (or a few) thing at a time12:53
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M4rtinKmgedmin, decibyte: There is some progress on this, as described by X-Fade in this TMO post:
M4rtinKI'd guess suggestions & help will be appreciated once the proposal is published13:11
decibyteM4rtinK: thanks! interesting.13:12
decibytehow come this hasn't been taken care of yet? not that i'm blaming anyone, i just don't have the proper insight into how it's working. but it seemed to be in place from the start for fremantle?13:15
decibytei mean: i'm just curious :)13:15
M4rtinKin part this delay might have been caused by Linux Foundation blocking the launch of apps.meego.com13:17
M4rtinKthus a new infrastructure had to be started on apps.formeego.com13:18
decibytefor what reason?13:18
M4rtinKI think patents and stuff ?
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M4rtinKin hindsight it seems to be quite fortunate that the current repository is independent from MeeGo and LF13:19
decibytei see13:20
decibytethanks again13:20
M4rtinKanother cause might be the fixing various issues with the repository system as used in Fremantle13:20
M4rtinKthe huge catalog download size for Extras-devel13:20
M4rtinKmaking update, upgrade and installation of packages very slow13:21
M4rtinKand there were even a few maintainership problem, eq taking over maintaining a package from a vanished person13:23
Arkenoi does not look like it is ever going to end13:23
M4rtinKlike Pali taking over from Titan on the Kernel-power13:23
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M4rtinKinteresting enough, you don't have to be a maintainer to upload a newer version of the package to Extras-devel13:24
M4rtinKwhich is currently causing some issues to Marble because somebody upgraded the Monav routing daemon with a development snapshot, breaking routing data compatibility13:25
M4rtinKdecibyte: so in short, there is definitely room for improvement, but the delay is quite unfortunate13:26
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decibyteM4rtinK: i didn't know about all the problems. but at least there was a central repo. the current situation for harmattan is a somewhat unfortunate. with a handfull of unofficial places to upload, some of them not even repositories providing upgrades etc, and a lot of people just making standalone deb's available. but i'm sure you all think the same.13:48
decibyteit's just that it was one of the great advantages of fremantle, i think. and i really miss it when i have to convince my friends that this is a better os than theirs :) "get it from the repo" is a lot easier to say than "go to this link, download deb, transfer to phone, ..." isn't that convincing.13:50
decibytebut i'm glad something os going on. given all circumstances, it's impressive it's still alive at all and that anybody care :)13:51
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M4rtinKyeah, it's quite chaotic at the moment - I plan to release and application simultaneously to Ovi + Apps FroMeego + an OBS repo13:55
griM4rtinK: the same application?13:56
M4rtinKand I wonder what happens if someone tries to install it from multiple sources at once :)13:56
griif one installs it from ovi and gets the update from apps for meego first, he cann not install it without uninstalling the ovi version first13:57
M4rtinKnice to know13:57
grithey have two different package origins13:58
griapps for meego is "" while ovi is "" or something like that13:58
M4rtinKwell, that settles the issue I'd guess13:58
M4rtinKand OBS repo vs AFM ?13:58
M4rtinKwould it just pick the newest version (which would not be a problem IMO) ?13:59
grino idea :) X-Fade knows that13:59
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matrixxdoesn't ovi terms say that the app can't be installable from any other source than ovi?14:00
matrixxnot sure, but I've been under that impression14:00
griI also heard that some days ago14:01
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Milhousehmm... what's in this developer mode software update I just received on my N950?16:24
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RST38hMilhous: arachnids!16:26
Milhousei'm sure there'll be a few of them - hopefully not too many though!16:27
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grialso nice that you can't click on the package to see the changelog before installing16:39
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BluesLeedamn, on every reboot my account passwords for email/twitter/skype etc get lost16:54
grisaw the some issue on an iphone yesterday :P16:55
BluesLeethis is no excuse:-)16:56
griI also tried siri yesterday for the first time ... said "how is the weather tomorrow?" like in the tv advertisements ... iPhone replied with "calling 4894984"16:56
BluesLeehow the f... to fix this? bug says i should wait for pr 1.216:57
_MeeGoBot_Bug 123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots16:57
BluesLeesomething seems to be messed up, cant believe this that there is no immediate solution16:58
rm_work*are you* running the latest firmware?16:59
BluesLeeyes, i do16:59
dm8tbrBluesLee: the solution is to reflash17:01
BluesLeesure, and if it happens again i will reflash and reflash17:02
dm8tbrI'd have said to go back to pr1.0 but sadly that's not an option17:02
BluesLeedoes this happen only occasionally?17:03
rm_workBluesLee: N9 or N950?17:04
BluesLeefrom the bug report: after hardreset accounts need to be recreated, which is what i did twice at least using pr1.1, with no improvement whatsoever.17:04
BluesLeeand reflashing is no choice as there is no downloadable firmware out there, just navifirm and for that you need windows17:06
griinstalling windows xp inside virtualbox takes about 10 minutes17:07
BluesLeegri: navifirm crashes within virtualbox17:07
grioh ok ...17:08
grithere are also tools which let you create a windows that you can boot from usb stick17:08
rm_workyou could try what I do when I need to use a Mac: find someone I know with a Mac17:09
rm_workIE, find someone you know with a windows PC17:09
rm_workcan't imagine it'd be too hard?17:09
BluesLeethanks gri, i think there is a solution out there without resetting, reflashing and so on17:10
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npmgri:  yeah, Siri sux.... try instead ... it doesn't pretend to be intelligent, or that it understands you, which is a fundamental design flaw of Siri ( ), which doesn't understand anything... the UI should reflect how stupid the program is, and that's what i did in voicetogoog :-)17:30
jreznikhas anybody tried to establish network session with specific configuration automatically? I've got configuration, it's valid (isValid() returns true) but when I open the session it immediately fails with "unspecified error" instead connecting to that apn... it works when already connected17:35
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ZogG_N9mgedmin, ping17:48
grinpm: even if all those voice systems would work perfectly, I would never talk to my phone :)17:52
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npmit actually works nicely and is better than typing18:01
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djszapigri: do you have some accounts-ui library in /usr/lib18:51
djszapiI have only this, but I guess this is an internal stuff: libnaccounts-ui018:51
griI should also have this one but this is nokia accounts ui18:52
grialso have this in scratchbox18:52
grino phone here to check right now18:52
djszapigri: /scratchbox/users/lpapp/home/lpapp/accounts-plugin/ocs/src/ocsaccountsetupcontext.cpp:587: undefined reference to `AccountsUI::trIdFromSignonError(SignOn::Error::ErrorType, QString const&)'18:54
tommaanyone tried QtQuick3D in harmattan?18:57
djszapiI tried Qt3D18:57
djszapiit sort of bricks the device.18:57
djszapithe tga plugin, especially.18:58
tommahmm... well it was problem installing it18:58
djszapinot the install18:59
djszapiit bricks randomly during the runtime18:59
djszapibut we fixed it for PR 1.218:59
tommaok... pkgmgr just didn't install it because of that18:59
tommabut problem is that i have no idea how i should use it in harmattan as rotating ui crashes, swiping to background crashes etc...19:00
djszapiworks for me19:00
djszapiapart from the tga plugin and its random brick19:00
tommabut have you tried using those qml elements?19:01
djszapithe examples are using that for instnace19:01
djszapifor instance*19:01
decibyteis it 1.1 or 1.2 being pushed by nokia atm?19:02
djszapinot sure if they shipped 1.1.119:03
decibyteokay. nothing for me then. but my friends wit n9 will be _very_ happy now :)19:03
decibytewas it a mistake that some of us got it some weeks ago? it seems to be a released now along with the white version.19:05
djszapigri: do you have any ideas for this ?
tommadjszapi, oh ok... so you need to use QDeclarativeView3D... so it wont be that easy to just throw Viewport in normal harmattan qml ui...19:13
gridjszapi: Forgot the cpp for OcsAccountWidgetModel?19:15
djszapigri: it is intended to not have cpp19:16
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BluesLeeneed help with flasher19:17
BluesLeei downloaded corresponding firmware with navifirm (country id on micro sim) and a linux flasher from nokias webpage19:18
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BluesLeekernel etc are flashed well, but he stops on rootfs with "mmc: Could not remove mount directory /tmp/sudmmc5MeOaA/mnt: No such file or directory"19:19
djszapinavifirm is an illegal image hosting19:19
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BluesLeedjszapi: i dont care19:19
BluesLeedjszapi: my n9 is bricked as my account settings are removed on every reboot, so i went for a reflash and this is not trivial if you dont have windows19:21
djszapiwe do not care about illegal stuff19:22
djszapifor good19:22
BluesLeethen tell me how to avoid bug 12319:23
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots19:23
BluesLeeshould i wait 5 months for pr 1.2?19:23
Venemojust relash19:24
BluesLeeVenemo: i am trying that without success so far19:25
jonniwhats the command line that you are using, and md5sum of the file?19:25
BluesLee../flasher -f -F DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin19:26
VenemoBluesLee, wut's the issue?19:26
BluesLeenow i get "Update content failed to verify against cert: SW certificate not updated"19:26
BluesLeebefore it stopped when flashing the rootfs19:26
BluesLeejust blinking:-)19:26
jonniBluesLee: run  md5sum on the bin file and paste result19:27
Venemowell, fortunatley my N950 hasn't displayed this issue yet.19:27
BluesLeejonni: cc828321c85b5f677e58f360b616ecf3  DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin19:27
BluesLeejonni: you think its corrupted?19:27
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jonnihmm, so file isnt corrupted19:28
jonniusually error happens if battery is not 100% when flashing is started or hardware broken.19:28
jonnior bad usb-port on desktop19:29
BluesLeedamn i have to find someone with windows:-)19:31
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BluesLeeon the n900 things are much easier, firmware images are dowloadable form nokia servers19:32
BluesLeenow i have to use illegal navifirm or whatever it is called or exe files running them with wine (if it works)19:33
jonnithat looks like usb port problems, or trying to use usb through virtual machine19:33
BluesLeeand all that flashing a linux device, makes no sense19:33
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BluesLeejonni: thanks, will be back in some minutes19:35
jonniI've never used windows to flash, only been using linux and mac.19:35
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CissWitHi. Do any of you know why the PR1.1 upgrade is not available for me in the application's upgrade interface ? I got the developper mode upgrade today, but not the PR1.119:37
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jonnimaybe you dont have wifi on, or just happen to be operator variant which hasnt been updated yet.19:42
CissWitso i should try to look for upgrade from a wifi access and not my operator's one ?19:43
jonninot sure, I usually atleast always have upgraded my phone through wifi, if there happends to be some logic inside that wifi is 'free' and offering 200+megs upgrade only happends when connected on wifi.19:50
jonnibut I havent looked the sources if there is such a logic coded in.19:51
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: ping219:52
mgedminhey, ZogG_laptop19:52
CissWiti wouldn't have upgrade by the operator's network anyway. I was just wondering why i had no upgrade available.19:52
mgedminI dropped your first ping, sorry19:52
ZogG_laptopi wonder do you have libcurl or curl on n950?19:53
mgedminI think I've wget19:53
ZogG_laptopand on n9?19:53
CissWityes, wget is available with developper mode19:53
mgedminI've both wget and curl, actually19:53
ZogG_laptopon n9 as well?19:54
mgedminwhy do you ask?19:54
CissWitZogG_laptop: the "utilities" package of developper mode on n9 provides wget.19:54
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: imgur use curl and i have't set it as dep, i wonder would it crash without it?19:55
mgedminoh! curl is not available on the n9, somehow19:55
ZogG_laptopmy friend tried it and it crashes for him19:55
mgedminwget is19:55
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: it is actually apt-get install curl libcurl3 libcurl4-something19:55
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: can you check it on your n9?19:56
ZogG_laptopbtw i got update today - developer-tools, affraid to update =)19:56
mgedminI've manually added the harmattan/sdk repo on my n9, so the apt-get install test would be useless for your purposes19:56
mgedminbut notice how curl is available from the nokia repo on the n950, but not on the n9?19:57
* mgedmin installed developer-tools upgrade on the n9 today, didn't notice anything different19:57
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: i have curl on n919:57
mgedminI remember trying to apt-get install it before I added the sdk repo, and getting an error19:57
mgedminI said wtf and installed wget instead19:58
* mgedmin runs apt-cache search libcurl19:58
mgedminlibcurl3 is available from
CissWitwithout the sdk repo, libcurl3 is available but not curl.19:58
mgedminboth libcurl3 and libcurl4-openssl-dev are available from the sdk repo19:59
ZogG_laptopi have 7.18.2-8maemo5+0m5 on n919:59
ZogG_laptopi'm on dev mode maybe that's the reason19:59
mgedminI'm on dev mode too19:59
ZogG_laptopoh f* i have it from russkie repo =)19:59
ZogG_laptopthat i added for xmms2 =)20:00
ZogG_laptopand it's maemo version =)20:00
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: do you have libcurl on n9?20:00
mgedminas I already said, libcurl3 is available on the n9 from the predefined nokia repo20:01
mgedminand I have it installed20:01
mgedminnot sure why20:01
mgedminI definitely didn't apt-get install it myself20:01
mgedminfbreader depends on it, hmm20:01
mgedminmp-harmattan-001-pr depends on it20:01
mgedminit's part of the stock system, apparently20:01
mgedminapt-transport-https depends on it20:01
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mgedminI thought I stopped the forkbomb with pkill -STOP -u buildbot, but apparently some processes slipped through20:02
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djszapi and -> anybody having an idea for this weird stuff ?20:03
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: so can you try on n9 and say if it crashes on upload or anybody else?20:06
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ZogG_laptopwith n920:06
ZogG_laptopbtw what is new in developer-tools?20:06
mgedminbit busy at the moment20:06
ZogG_laptopi got an update today20:06
Venemo_N950me too20:06
ZogG_laptopVenemo_N950: what's inside? i'm affraid to get cut of devel-su ssh and so on20:07
ieatlintit updates aegis to create an even safer environment20:07
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ZogG_laptopyou mean close?20:08
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ieatlinthaha, i was kidding, but according to apt-get, the two packages that will install are aegis-developer-unknown-source-policy and developer-mode20:16
mgedminwell, devel-su still works20:16
ieatlinthard to say what a package with that name does20:17
mgedmin"Specify allowed credentials for unknown source for developer mode"20:17
djszapiieatlint: actually, quite easy to say20:17
djszapiit is about the unknown source policy...20:17
djszapiwhat else...20:17
ieatlintheh, i meant what the update does20:17
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ieatlinti could see it making things more open or closed20:17
djszapiupdated the unknown source policy ?20:17
mgedminit contains no files!?20:18
mgedminand no maintainer scripts20:18
ieatlinti love explanations that consist of reading the package name :)20:18
djszapiyou cannot even do that ?20:18
mgedminand it doesn't depend on any other package20:18
djszapisince it just is a metadata about policies ?20:19
mgedminbut where is the metadata hidden?20:19
mgedminthe aegis manifest embedded in the .deb?20:19
folivoraGday, is there some develop version of some xmpp-client? I know that gtalk use xmpp. I am looking some fork, so I could see is it possible to get some whatsup-xmpp app up and running?20:19
mgedminI don't know where those are stored20:19
djszapimgedmin: mmm, you do not understand what a manifest is ...20:20
djszapicould you please read the public documentation ?20:20
mgedminwhat? me read documentation? you presume too much! :)20:20
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ieatlintfolivora: can't help you with souce code, but i wonder if this method for creating a gtalk account would work for any xmpp...
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mgedmin(the aegis manifest is an XML file named _aegis and added to the outer ar archive makes up the .deb file, next to control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz)20:24
djszapithe aegis manifest file is foobar.aegis20:25
folivoraieatlint: Thanks, that looks promising, basicly gotta see how it works with other xmpp-protocol-clients. =)20:26
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CissWitfolivora: for xmpp20:26
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folivoraCissWit: thanks for you too20:27
folivoraI think that this is the information what I needed =)20:27
djszapiwriting an account plugin is very hard :P20:28
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ieatlintconsidering it's just telepathy, i wouldn't imagine writing one would be that terribly difficult20:34
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ieatlintthe n900 used the same system, unless nokia decided to make things very proprietary all of a sudden20:35
dm8tbrieatlint: the ui bit is undocumented20:44
ieatlinti was under the impression you didn't write a ui20:45
ieatlintexcept perhaps something for the add account screen20:45
w00tright, and that would be the accounts plugin being talked about20:46
djszapiN9ieatlint, it is actually exactly not tp20:51
djszapiN9the backend design is not documented20:52
ieatlintthat's brilliant20:52
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djszapiN9so everybody writes an own parser20:54
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djszapiN9in not a super simple case20:54
ieatlintso the telepathy-glib and telepathy-qt4 docs in the platform sdk are not correct?20:55
djszapiN9the setup context is almost 600 LOC boilerplate for everybody20:55
yipdwieatlint: another bit to contend with is storage of the account details, which is (I think) probably not technically difficult, just not documented20:55
yipdwthat's actually what I'm trying to figure out now20:56
djszapiN9the storage is simple20:56
djszapiN9if you parsed the file properly20:56
yipdwparsed which file?20:57
djszapiN9and you use signon supported method20:57
djszapiN9well, provider, no ?20:57
yipdware you referring to the XML provider file?20:57
djszapiN9and once it is all done, it is getting more difficult with non accounts-ui basic widgets20:58
djszapiN9custom widgets for configure and edit20:58
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djszapiN9good thing is that once my plugin is done, it is almost copy paste to do the next frame for yet another one20:59
djszapiN9which is sort of annoying why the boilerplate is not done by the library21:00
yipdwI mean, one thing that I'd like to do is store not just username and password, but also all the details peculiar to XMPP, such as device priority and STUN configuration for voice calls21:00
yipdwI don't doubt that the methods are easy once you figure them out21:00
yipdwI just haven't really had the opportunity to sit down and piece it all together21:01
djszapiN9and it is getting more complicate when you try to ship more providers with the same provider plugin21:01
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djszapiN9and then various service configs for different providers21:03
BluesLeenow i understand why klaus said that resetting the device did not help with bug 12321:04
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots21:04
djszapiN9because the c++ must be flexible enough to handle the various providers and their services. It probably makes sense to write a lib instead, first in that case21:04
BluesLeei like the bot bug 12221:04
_MeeGoBot_Bug nor, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, Contact highlighting doesn't work properly in SMS (N9).21:04
ZogG_laptopCorsac: btw i think i solved bug 12321:05
ZogG_laptopbot bug 12321:06
BluesLeeZogG_laptop: i wanted to go to a juggle session but this bug prevented me to do that, 4 hours for nothing21:07
BluesLeei was not able to flash from linux, then i used nokia software updater as navifirm software is illegal as i learnt here21:08
BluesLeebut nokia software updater flashes only the firmware not mmc21:08
BluesLeelets hope that it does not appear on a regular basis21:09
* dm8tbr would love to see the 'illegality' of navifirm or whatever it is named tested in court ;)21:10
Stskeeps"did you do anything, at all, to protect the images"?21:10
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ieatlintwell, the argument would be copyright infringement, not illegal access21:13
BluesLeebut honestly, how do you flash mmc without using navifirm resp. where do you download the mmc images legally?21:13
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BluesLeethe software updater from nokia cant do that job21:13
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djszapiit is illegal to get the images from navifirm21:14
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djszapiNokia has never documented this for valid reasons.21:14
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ieatlintheh, and nokia will never go after an end user trying to repair their phone21:14
BluesLeebut from where should we get them21:14
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djszapiBluesLee: why would you like to get if Nokia does not wanna provide it, just the updater ?21:15
BluesLeehow should i handle bug 123?21:15
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_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots21:15
BluesLeereturn the device to nokia care?21:15
djszapiif they can repair it, of course21:15
djszapiI thought it is obvious.21:16
BluesLeei see your argument21:16
ieatlinti think part of the confusion is that nokia does provide for the n95021:17
BluesLeei would appreciate if there is a fix for such a serious bug that this fix is distributed before pr 1.221:17
ieatlintand the implied reason for not having it for the n9 is to prevent the average consumer from bricking their phone21:17
djszapiI would also like to do many things21:17
djszapiit would be nice to get a more mature qml, or at least get my requests merged.21:17
BluesLeeieatlint: bug 123 bricked my phone:-)21:17
ieatlintyou should then, doing things is productive21:17
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots21:17
ieatlintif we keep saying bug 123, i bet the bot gets banned from freenode for spam21:18
BluesLeeokay, lets say bug 19821:18
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, High, ---, ext-risto.lahti, NEED, Messageserver with high CPU utilization and mail is not sync'd.21:18
BluesLeejust a joke21:18
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ieatlintdjszapi: they're not trying to mature qml, they're trying to make it even more niche with qtquick 2.021:19
dm8tbrieatlint: or someone gets kicked off the channel21:19
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BluesLeei wanted to watch BrBa and now i have to reinstall my n9 instead21:19
ieatlintdm8tbr: no need to threaten me, i'm merely pointing out what will happen, not instigating it21:19
djszapiieatlint: :) qml2 is still in the future, and we live in the present :)21:20
ieatlintactually i'm stuck dealing with qml2 already21:21
djszapialso, qml2 does not have 3d support for many things21:21
djszapican you give me the release link of qml2 ?21:21
BluesLeedjszapi: you are a kind of Nokia community manager, right?21:21
djszapiso that I can make it a real dependency for a project ?21:21
djszapiBluesLee: nope.21:21
ieatlintthere is no qml2 release to m knowledge21:22
ieatlinti'm compiling out of git21:22
djszapialso, it is soon 2012, we live in the 3d world come on :)21:23
ieatlinti'm way ahead of you... been in a 3d world for years now21:23
djszapiwhy do you use qml2 then ?21:23
djszapiyou use a different framework for 3d ?21:24
* dm8tbr didn't like walking like an egyptian and switched to 3d ;)21:24
djszapiieatlint: last I checked the qml2 source code, x and y coordinates were hard coded, no z et al21:24
ieatlintwe're not using 3d21:25
djszapiit is okay for 2d , I guess..21:25
ieatlintcompany is after qmlscene21:25
djszapiI am looking forward to seeing this "feature phone" of Nokia. I am curious about the graphics because Harmattan just has a dirty hack for opengl21:26
djszapito get it actually through the viewport. It is not a real nice implementation on the opengl side.21:26
Sputqml2 (whatever it's named now) is part of Qt521:27
Sput(which is already available as source)21:27
djszapithat is the proble. It is not released, and will probably not released in few months either.21:27
ieatlintwe know, the point is there's not even a beta of it21:27
djszapiand there is no even release schedule21:28
ieatlintthey're hoping for a release around june21:28
djszapiso there are no even plans for alpha/beta releases :)21:28
ieatlintlars spoke about it at dev days in sf21:28
djszapiyes, but this is personal "hope".21:28
ieatlintwants beta in february, and a tp out around april if i recall right21:28
ieatlintyeah, very true21:28
infobot//kick ieatlint21:29
djszapithere are no concrete schedules.21:29
ieatlintsomeone out there likes me :)21:29
djszapiwe are still working on kde -> qt5 porting21:30
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djszapiwithout knowing how much time we have.21:30
ieatlintand what have i done to anger now?21:30
infobotwarms up ICBMs21:30
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infobot:), DocScrutinizer21:32
ieatlintah, screwing with me :)21:32
CorsacZogG_laptop: how?21:34
ZogG_laptopCorsac: apsswords are reset after reboot but not every 20 minutes like they used to21:35
Sputieatlint: ah, is it June now21:35
Sputat DevDays in Munich they were aiming for April21:36
Sputwith feature freeze in January21:36
ZogG_laptopCorsac: i installed 3 packages for jabber and msn and other protocols from tmo21:36
DocScrutinizerieatlint: she should've said "/kick ieatlint 1 2 3 don't mess with me"21:36
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ieatlintrhyming kicks are he best kind21:36
djszapiN9ieatlint, i have time to finish my module into qt5 i think21:36
djszapiN9or even write yet another one21:37
Sputieatlint: it's of course much better for all of us to have some more time for adding features to Qt5... the first freeze date was planned for September 2011, that would've been madness21:37
ieatlintgo try and install qt5 on your n9/50 :P21:38
DocScrutinizerbut then sometimes she's just smarter than me, noticing me about it's not been her who got abused with bug 123, and I actually heard she thinks _MeeGoBot_ is a bit too retarded for her21:38
djszapiN9maintainets should take care of releasable states in master21:38
_MeeGoBot_Bug maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots21:38
SputdjszapiN9: because in particular KDE wants to move stuff into Qt5 in order to reduce the KDE forked classes21:38
SputdjszapiN9: we can't do that anymore after the freeze, at least not if it requires bic changes21:39
djszapiN9that is ongoing21:39
djszapiN9yes we can21:39
Sputnow imagine it would've been frozen in September21:39
Sputno, feature freeze means binary compat forever21:39
djszapiN9since they are new classes21:39
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Sputstuff like the localisation requires binary changes21:39
djszapiN9no, that is not true21:39
Sputadding new stuff isn't a problem21:39
SputI've sit in numerous discussions about that qt QtCS and other occasions :)21:40
djszapiN9localization is not being merged at all21:40
Sputoh? that would be news to me21:40
ieatlintit appears i successfully started a quasi-off-topic discussion21:40
Sputall the new datetime and calendar stuff is already in Qt521:40
Sputwas one of the first merges after open gov went live21:40
djszapiN9localization remains in qt5 for many reasons21:41
Sputyes. in qt5. rather than in KDE.21:41
djszapiN9qt5 will have qt4 loc.21:42
Sputit already has evolved from that...21:42
djszapiN9not really21:42
Sputif you mean translations, I think the discussion there is still ongoing21:42
Sputbut the new calendar system is already in qt5.21:43
djszapiN9cal != loc, right ?21:43
Sputit's part of localization21:43
Sputso is unicode support, I've heard talk about switching to icu instead of the homebrew solution21:43
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Sputthen there's thiago's changes to QUrl, which will allow to get rid of KUrl probably21:44
Sputthose also broke binary compat :)21:44
djszapiexcept that it is not done by Thiago21:44
djszapiback to the calendar, that is a brand new addition21:44
djszapiwithout braking anything21:44
Sputso why did he write numerous blogs about QUrl?21:44
djszapiso as far I see, there is no compatibility break21:45
djszapiSput: he did implement almost nothing21:45
djszapiactually, I would prefer more releases of Qt21:45
djszapiand not this crazily rarely.21:45
SputI would prefer to clean up everything and make sure that we don't have to break binary compat in a year first21:45
Sputafterwards, release often21:45
djszapibut we do not break.21:45
djszapiI do not understand where you get that.21:46
Sputyes, yes, we do21:46
djszapiwhat is not ready, will not be released.21:46
Sputbelieve me, I'm working with that stuff :)21:46
djszapithat is the whole concept behind qt521:46
djszapithere are many separates module21:46
ieatlintthiago said as recently at 2 weeks ago that he can't contribute to qt and hasn't since july due to licencing issues at intel21:46
djszapiand only the releasable stuff is released.21:46
ieatlintso i doubt he's contributed qurl changes recently :P21:46
Sputinteresting, he did blog tons about it21:46
djszapidfaure did most of the work21:46
djszapiblog != implementing stuff21:46
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Sputin any case, the modules don't help if qtbase changes internally and API-wise21:47
djszapiso he did not change actually anything21:47
Sputwe're still moving stuff around too21:47
djszapiand the point is qt, what I think you miss, they do not release everything in a brand new version21:47
Spute.g. the whole connectivity stuff that has been merged from Qt Mobility into Qt521:47
djszapithey will release the stuff which is releasable21:47
djszapiso this breaking stuff is not even a problem21:47
djszapisince what is not stable, it is not released21:47
djszapiso you can release anytime21:47
djszapionly the stable stuff is released.21:47
djszapiand the role of the module maintainers is to make sure the master head version is always in a release state21:48
Sputyes. but keeping binary compat is hard. you can't do a lot of changes you would like to do, that was an annoyance during the lifetime of qt4, and it's important now to make sure that everything that changes existing stuff is done before the first qt5 release21:48
djszapiso not stable stuff should not even get to master, but separate feature branches21:48
GeneralAntillesieatlint, that's special.21:49
Sputfrom experience I know that even qtbase regularly breaks binary compat at the moment21:49
Sputbecause they move stuff around or remove obsolete stuff or change APIs and ABIs21:49
djszapibut they do not say they are in a releasable state21:49
djszapiso qtbase would not be released.21:49
djszapiso I do not understand the problem21:49
djszapirelease cannot be this way flaky.21:49
Sputall I'm saying is, it would've been impossible to release in September21:49
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Sputand it's probably better if it isn't done in January21:49
Sputthe people working on Qt5 should get the time they need to have a proper foundation21:50
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djszapiif there is anything to release, I do not mind the frequent release. Actually the opposite.21:50
Sputyes. that's why I said, they should take their time until an initial release, after which you can release frequently21:51
djszapiI would like to see more qt releases, and I bet that is their plan as well21:51
Sputbut they have to make sure that before the very first public release, there are no changes needed that break binary compat afterwards21:51
djszapiwell, qtbase is not the only one21:51
djszapiqtwebkit and other stuff improved a lot in the meantime21:51
djszapiso I do not think there would be nothing to release.21:51
Sputqtwebkit has separate releases anyway21:51
Sputbut that has nothing to do with qt521:52
djszapi"qtwebkit and other stuff".21:52
djszapinote, the /other/.21:52
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Sputyou can't release qtnetwork5 before having qtbase5 :)21:52
djszapiwhy not ?21:52
Sputbecause it depends on qtbase?21:52
djszapiit is only an internal implementation details, what it uses internally.21:52
djszapiif the /API/ is stable21:52
w00tnot necessarily21:52
djszapiyou can release.21:52
w00tit isn't21:52
Sput"here's your stable qtnetwork, sorry you can't use it, there's no qtbase to go with it"21:52
w00t_some_ API has changed21:53
Sputno, if the /ABI/ is stable you can release21:53
Sputbecause there is no more ABI changing afterwards.21:53
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djszapiSput: why, I do not understand21:54
djszapithere is an update with a new qtnetwork binary for instance, or whatever binary21:54
Sputbecause there is this ABI compat guarantee21:54
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djszapiyou ship that and done21:54
djszapisince the API is the same.21:54
Sputyou know about binary compat?21:54
djszapiand imho, recompiling is the purpose of qt5 anyway21:55
djszapiso they do not guarantee that you will not recompile your app21:55
Sputyes, between 4 and 5.21:55
* DocScrutinizer sighs about weird sparse conversation on his IRC screen21:55
djszapithey only say that you do not need to rewrite your app like qt3 -> qt421:55
Sputbut they do guarantee between 5.0 and 5.x21:55
w00tDocScrutinizer: at least you stay sane that way21:55
Sputand that's why I tell you that they need to make sure that the 5.0 release has the perfect ABI21:56
djszapiSput: yes, and for that you need a stable API21:56
djszapinot change the argument of QCheckBox and some other random examples.21:56
Sputwell yes. but that's the smaller problem :)21:56
djszapiI do not understand why21:57
djszapiif I provide you an API, and give you a new shared library with different internals21:57
Sput  <-- look at this list of stuff you cannot do anymore once Qt5 has been feature-frozen21:57
djszapiyou can recompile and and go21:57
djszapiI know that stuff :)21:57
Sputso why do you ask?21:57
djszapiask what ?21:57
DocScrutinizerSput: that's age old commandment: Though SHALT NEVER break ABI compatibility of a lib! If you do you'll have to pop the major number, so this will be qt6 then21:58
SputDocScrutinizer: exactly. and Qt guarantees no ABI breaks after the feature freeze21:58
Sputwhich means we need to make sure that by the time of the feature freeze, Qt5 is in a state that we don't have to break the ABI ever again during its lifetime21:58
Sputnot so hard to grasp really21:58
DocScrutinizerwait, I got a semi-decent somewhat related link for you21:59
djszapiSput: I am not getting what you mean.22:00
Sputdjszapi: I'm noticing, but I don't think I am getting what you don't understand :)22:00
djszapiI think I now understand.22:01
SputI'm saying "I'm glad they're taking their time with Qt5, so they can get everything cleaned up and in order until they feature freeze sometime next year", you're saying "they should release earlier and more often"22:01
DocScrutinizerSput: >>3.6. Incompatible Libraries<<
SputDocScrutinizer: I know that stuff :)22:01
djszapiSput: no, I did not say that22:02
w00tSput: are you working on qt5 things, btw? wondering if i've seen you around by another name and just not connected the two :)22:02
djszapiI said that, if it is releasable they should release often22:02
DocScrutinizer>>Given this lengthy list, developers of C++ libraries in particular must plan for more than occasional updates that break binary compatibility. Fortunately, on Unix-like systems (including Linux) you can have multiple versions of a library loaded at the same time, so while there is some disk space loss, users can still run ``old'' programs needing old libraries.<<22:02
Sputyes. after the initial release, they should. and they will.22:02
djszapibut I think what I missed above is that qtbase is still heavily changing22:02
Sputyep, it is22:02
djszapiI did not know this. Actually, I thought the opposite22:02
Sput(so are many of the other core modules)22:02
djszapiI thought the core is pretty stable by now22:03
djszapiotherwise it is utterly hard to change all the modules all the time22:03
djszapithere is a tiny change.22:03
Sputit is stable to run it, so you can build apps against it and they're stable, but the API and ABI are still in flux22:03
djszapithat is what basically happened with meegotouch as well22:03
Sputand there's things like header renaming going on22:03
Sputor classes moving from one module into the other22:04
djszapiI am kinda worried if the base is still rapidly changing, honestly...22:04
djszapithen it is probably not done by June either22:04
Sputwell, it's in a state where it's stable enough to work against it, but not in a state where you could risk freezing the API and ABI22:04
djszapisince once it settles done, all the modules around it can start implementing the "stable" version.22:04
djszapiand they will also have many experiments.22:05
Sputthe KDE Frameworks work is important, because they're noticing things that need to change in Qt5, or even move into Qt5 from KDE22:05
Sputand right now, they can still trigger such changes in the lib22:05
djszapiyes, I know. I was there half a year ago in Switzerland :)22:06
djszapiwe were discussing what to do with KDE and Qt5 :)22:06
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djszapibut apart from very few classes, they are pure broad additions.22:06
djszapiand the reason is why the "previous" localization system remains is sort of obvious: too many projects depending on that, and the KDE is vastly different.22:07
djszapiand then there are other problems, like the kde guys did not feel the sake to rewrite the stuff for fun from leisure time, when it is now working nicely.22:07
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djszapiand imho quite a few times of those cases, it is more work to get a working code qt'ified than doing the "actual" work.22:09
djszapiSput: and I am happy to see qmake is not a requirement in qt522:10
djszapiI am really happy about that.22:10
Sputthere have been no changes to the build system22:11
SputQt5 is still using qmake, though of course you're still free to use cmake instead if once they add qt5 support to it22:11
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Sputhaven't heard much about the "new build system for Qt" they've been talking about a couple years ago22:12
djszapinot a requirement != it must be dropped.22:12
Venemowut's wrong with qmake? it's ideal for simpletons like me.22:13
Sputwell, it's the same as in qt422:13
djszapiVenemo: please read Thiago's mail about that point and probably others expressed it many times as well22:13
djszapiSput: not really22:13
CissWitStill no upgrade available for me when i try using a WiFi connection. How can i upgrade to PR 1.1 ? [backlog hint: 18:52:52 (UTC+0100)]22:13
djszapiSput: qt4 was pure cmake22:13
SputVenemo: yeah, it's ideal until you need to do really advanced stuff like depending on an external library22:14
djszapiSput: and kde developers do not feel ike refactoring a working build syste mfor fun22:14
VenemoSput, um, worksforme?22:14
Sputdjszapi: I haven't noticed any changes in qt5 compared to qt4 in that regard22:14
Sputyou can still use either build system as long as it supports qt22:14
Sputand qt is still using qmake for itself22:14
Sputno changes :)22:14
djszapiSput: show me a cmake or other build system based module in qt422:14
Venemoin any case, I don't say you guys can't use anything else, but please don't take qmake away from me :)22:14
Sputdjszapi: you mean, for Qt modules?22:15
Sputno idea how those work22:15
Sputqt4 wasn't modular22:15
djszapithey used qmake22:15
djszapimain qmake pro file in the project root, and many subfolders.22:15
djszapiso it was not quasi possible to use anything else22:15
Sputthat's how my qt5 checkout looks too :)22:15
djszapiuntil my module gets merged :)22:16
Sputonly that the subfolders now come from their own repos and can be built individually22:16
Sputwhich warms the heart of an old gentoo fart like me22:16
Sputwhat's your module?22:16
djszapiand this was not the case with qt422:16
djszapiso it is a really huge improvement22:16
Sputwell yeah, the modularity thingy is a huge improvement22:17
VenemoQt 5's QML scene graph is a really huge improvement too :)22:17
SputI didn't know that you meant that with your qmake comment :)22:17
djszapimodularizing + policy decision22:17
Sputit's actually one of the major reasons for Qt522:17
djszapiSput: I mean that what I said, it is not fun to work with qmake for many people and projects.22:18
Sputyeah, we all know that :)22:18
Sputnobody likes qmake22:18
djszapithat is an exaggeration though :)22:18
djszapiread ossi and markus' comments :P22:18
VenemoSput, I do22:18
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djszapiSput: do not forget that either, qmake does not have a ctest, cdash-like service in playground22:20
djszapiwhich makes the quality pretty much worse.22:20
djszapiso I cannot even choose qmake technically.22:20
Sputyou don't need to convince me about qmake being bad :)22:20
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Sputossi doesn't like qmake either btw.22:21
djszapiand it is not just inconvenient for certain users, but have you ever took a look at its code ? :P22:21
Sputhe just also doesn't like cmake22:21
djszapiossi does not like anything :P22:21
Sputhave you ever had a look at qmake-for-qtopia's code?22:21
Sputthat was a giant perl script22:21
djszapibecause after thiago said its codebase is even worse than using it from user pov22:21
Sputlike, giant22:21
djszapiwel, I took a look at it, and ... yeah, politely: it is not professional enough :)22:22
Sputqmake's code base is about as bad as its documentation22:22
Sputthere's a reason noone has touched the code in years22:22
djszapibalance is important ;)22:22
Sputwe've had qmake 2.01 since, what, qt2?22:22
Sputoooooh, we're at 2.01a now!22:23
djszapiSput: anyway, I apologize I did not understand the things above.22:23
Sputdjszapi: no need to apologize :)22:23
djszapiand my module is qtopenal/qt3DAudio22:23
djszapibut probably an OCS standard implementation might end up there.22:23
djszapiif OCS 2.0 is out for working on the implementation.22:24
djszapiSput: also, legal checks take a very looooong procedure inside Nokia22:24
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djszapiSput: and I think it also means that the feature phone is not really released before qt5 either22:29
djszapiso that schedule is also postponed since that ;)22:29
djszapiI think they wanted to get Qt5 out that early becuase of this feature phone22:30
djszapiuntil that*22:30
Venemothey wanted the QML scenegraph to be in that "feature phone", methinks. which is a good decision.22:31
Sputwell, I can't comment on that22:31
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djszapiVenemo: I think that was the idea. To get a phone, get rid of meegotouch, and use this qml2 ui development practicality.22:31
Venemodjszapi, yeah, it'd make sense.22:32
Venemodjszapi, it's a pity that they were this late with the whole QML thing.22:32
djszapiVenemo: it is not a simple task. As far as I know many people worked on that even from the qtcreator team (Germany)22:33
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Venemodjszapi, compared to XAML, they came out with QML rather late.22:34
djszapiI think they came out in a very pre-mature state when they should not have :P22:34
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Venemodjszapi, dat's true too, but at least it received some battle-testing :)22:35
Venemodjszapi, but really, it's becoming a lot better.22:36
djszapiyeah, they do not even care about merge requests in components for instance :P22:36
Venemodjszapi, components != QML itself.22:36
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djszapiis it any good to use pure qml nowadays ?22:37
Venemodjszapi, it definitely has its uses.22:37
djszapialso, speaking of which I still have I think a MR against qml2 too22:37
djszapiwhich uses ?22:37
Venemodjszapi, if you want to remain truly cross-platform22:37
Venemodjszapi, for example my latest app does not use qt-components at all.22:37
CorsacZogG_laptop: oh, for me they were only reset at boot22:38
Corsacso it's not really a fix22:38
Venemodjszapi, and it is A LOT FASTER... so I think qt-components are becoming bloated.22:38
djszapiVenemo: why not spend 1-2 days with rewriting the Ui for the given platform in order to look cool ?22:38
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Venemodjszapi, I wanted to do that22:38
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Venemodjszapi, but there is a bug in components (at least in the harmattan components) which prevents my own declarative item from working properly.22:39
Venemodjszapi, namely, if I add my own declarativeitem to a Window {} or any child of a Window {}, its children randomly stop receiving ANY events.22:40
djszapicannot you fix it around instead of dropping the native look'n feel ?22:41
VenemoI may be able to fix it with a lot of ugly workarounds, but there is no proper fix22:42
Venemoin fact, that's true for all of Qt22:42
VenemoQt is becoming a heap of bugs when you start to do something with it that they didn't think you will be doing.22:43
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djszapiVenemo: maybe.. you can write StarCraft3 in Qml2 :))22:44
Venemodjszapi, in any case, after I noticed how faster is my hand-written QML compared to my other stuff that uses qt-components, I decided to just use it this way :)22:44
Venemodjszapi, I only needed to reinvent a couple of simple wheels, so it's not really a big deal.22:45
djszapiand that is exactly my point when I say, some people still tend to use MTF.22:45
Venemowell, after I made my own Button and Dialog "components", it wasn't a trouble at all.22:46
Venemoand interestingly, this app even loads faster than any MTF apps, even the built-in ones.22:46
djszapiqml has launch speed issues in general.22:48
djszapiThey have been continously investigating about that.22:48
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djszapiieatlint: btw, what licensing issues at Intel for thiago ?22:50
djszapiand in general for a third-party company employee.22:51
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Sputwell, contributions to Qt require the contributor's agreement22:52
SputIntel might not want to allow that maybe?22:53
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Sputthough if thiago doesn't work on Qt, I wonder what he does now22:53
djszapihe maintains qt22:53
djszapiand he designs the API and other stuff22:53
Sputit's not like there's a lot of Qt stuff left at Intel22:53
djszapiworking in a project is not just the coding, actually that is the less part :P22:53
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djszapiso is it an Intel/Thiago/Nokia specific issue ?22:54
gabriel9did anyone tried to speed up boot time on N9?22:55
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SpeedEvilSpeeding up boot time is generally not possible without disabling the security platform, as it'd require lots of mods it won't permit.22:57
SpeedEvilThere may be some opportunity, but it's going to be limited.22:57
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Aranel<qml question>how can I limit line count on TextArea? It allows exceeding the height of itself on default</qml question>22:57
djszapiyes, aegis validator takes a time22:57
SpeedEvilI was meaning other than the time taken by aegis, though I suppose that's non-zero too.22:58
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djszapiaegis validator takes most of the time in boot23:00
djszapiwe used to have boot time under 2s.23:01
djszapiin the beginning :)23:02
djszapiand we also had much more than this when the aegis validator was not optimized.23:03
deramit's not hard to get 2sec boot time with optimized bootloaders and limiting started apps just to login on serial23:03
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djszapiwell, even the blackfin qt board booted in 1 sec with full Ui (Qt)23:04
ZogG_laptopmgedmin: =)23:04
ZogG_laptopX-Fade: ping23:04
djszapiVenemo: this is a classical:
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gabriel9djszapi: you worked on N9?23:08
gabriel9for Nokia?23:09
djszapino, I still work =)23:09
gabriel9i'm honored, and great job for making this great phone23:09
djszapiyou probably do not know I am from the Platform Security team, so you must dislike our job :P23:10
gabriel9:D no no23:11
gabriel9every job is ok23:11
gabriel9if the product is great23:11
* phako does :-P all the hairs I've pulled due to that23:11
gabriel9so you are to blame for slow boot :D23:11
djszapiwell, aegis validator is not my work23:12
djszapiI just happen to know its design principles and few details, but every bit.23:12
djszapibut not*23:12
gabriel9well i don't know what is aegis23:13
gabriel9i am web developer, ans know some basic stuff from qt c++ and GNU/Linux23:13
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ZogG_laptopdamn how do i build with obs. something wrong23:19
djszapicould you please be more precise than "something wrong" ?23:19
gabriel9There is always something wrong in this kind of job :)23:20
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ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i tried step by step like it said in wiki23:24
ZogG_laptopand i got error about build step23:24
ZogG_laptopEnter Command arguments: -t harmattan-platform-api dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S -uc -us -Imoc -Iobj -Ircc -Iui -I.svn -I*.deb -I*.changes -Iqtc_packaging -IMakefile -I*.pro.user -I<packagename>23:24
djszapiwhat the heck is this line ?23:25
djszapiit seems long enough doesn't it :)23:26
gabriel9becouse of that i like shiny buttons :)23:28
gabriel9click and it does all for you23:28
VenemoZogG_laptop, da fukk is dat?23:28
djszapiphantastic qtcreator...23:29
gabriel9i love my qt creator23:30
gabriel9but for some reason i get black screen when i try this example:
djszapieven for the simple tutorial ? :))))23:32
gabriel9i copied all code23:33
gabriel9btw, do you use debugger in qtcreator for qml and JS?23:33
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AranelCan someone give me a document link to use harmattan qt components? I searched for it but couldn't find anything else than some tutorials and Symbian documentation.23:37
gabriel9all is her23:38
AranelThank you ^^ Spent a long a time on to find them :)23:39
gabriel9no problem i'm also a begginer :)23:40
ninnnuHow big is the performance/power hit if I use QML instead of Qt/C++?23:40
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xmlich02is there way to set charset for harmattan target? It seems that harmattan target default is latin1 and desktop utf-8 (see )23:44
gabriel9I'm asking this you becouse you are a strangers and live different lifes then we here. Would you and for what you go to war?23:45
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gabriel9war is not good, the programming is far more fun and usefull. But still where is the limit?23:46
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gabriel9i get this fat output when trying to debug:

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