| gabriel9 | thanks | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| tomma | i use it when i am lazy and dont want to write model in c++ | 00:01 |
| jonni | Richlv: there is merge option inside contacts app | 00:02 |
| Richlv | jonni, that only seems to allow to merge two manually selected contacts | 00:03 |
| Richlv | doesn't work with a total of 1k or so contacts :D | 00:03 |
| Richlv | (not mine, trying to help somebody) | 00:03 |
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| z720 | who manager to boot in rescue mode for N9 with ehci_hcd (USB2) mode ? | 08:19 |
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| ieatlint | is the 40-4 image available for the n9 without using something like navifirm? | 09:20 |
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| tomma | not anywhere public but it can be found using google | 09:27 |
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| ieatlint | yeah, just wanted to see if nokia had actually released it yet | 09:42 |
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| z720 | http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/p/d/fds_fire/1110/2709/6514740380/DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin | 09:57 |
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| Venemo_N950 | hey | 10:23 |
| Venemo_N950 | I think I've just made the fastest qml app in existence. | 10:29 |
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| tomma | ieatlint, i dont think they will "release" those as you can always use NSU to update your device (if you have windows) | 10:46 |
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| Richlv | ieatlint, if you have some idea on how to bomb nokia with requests to provide images in a decent format/way without forcing use of some crappy win-only soft... :) | 10:52 |
| * mgedmin wants a Fuelpad port to Harmattan for Christmas | 10:52 | |
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| gri | Venemo_N950: an empty view? :) | 11:03 |
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| djszapi | gri: you plugin is a bit buggy, you know ? web2sms, that is | 11:11 |
| djszapi | your* | 11:11 |
| gri | djszapi: in what way? | 11:12 |
| djszapi | I think best to take a look at my code at some point. | 11:12 |
| djszapi | there are more issues... | 11:12 |
| gri | what exactly is buggy? For me it never crashed or produced errors | 11:13 |
| gri | also all my testers did not complain | 11:13 |
| gri | so you found something I did never see :) | 11:13 |
| djszapi | hard to find a bug about a missing feature that should normally be there. | 11:13 |
| gri | that is? | 11:13 |
| djszapi | or hard to get crashed what is not there, but should be | 11:13 |
| djszapi | X-Fade: ping | 11:14 |
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| Venemo_N950 | gri, puzzle-master | 11:15 |
| gri | djszapi: What's the feature you're missing? | 11:15 |
| Venemo_N950 | gri, it's (to my surprise) very snappy and it also launches virtually instantly. | 11:15 |
| djszapi | gri: I do not have time right now for explaining it | 11:16 |
| djszapi | it is not 2 mins. | 11:16 |
| Venemo_N950 | I'll make a .deb available once it's feature complete | 11:16 |
| gri | djszapi: Ok but don't take my plugin as example since it only supports the minimum functionality I needed to get my program working | 11:17 |
| gri | Venemo_N950: My girlfriend loves puzzles and will steal my n9 if you publish that :/ | 11:17 |
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| djszapi | gri: even for a minimal functionality, things are missing | 11:18 |
| gri | djszapi: I am curious what you found :) | 11:18 |
| djszapi | also, regroupping in the list might be forbidden by Ovi. | 11:19 |
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| Termana | gri, I believe djszapi is going to explain to you at some other point in time that you have forgotten to include the kitchen sink | 11:20 |
| Termana | :p | 11:20 |
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| gri | djszapi: regrouping? you mean that order thing I don't use? :) | 11:21 |
| gri | djszapi: or the "sub-provider" list? | 11:21 |
| djszapi | ordering might be not supported by Ovi which indeed takes an effect on the design. | 11:22 |
| gri | well ovi already stalled qa since they believe they need a german sim card for testing | 11:22 |
| djszapi | I would not like to expose things in my plugin "randomly", if I cannot define the order. | 11:22 |
| gri | I wonder how my testers from ireland and spain have done testing then :P | 11:23 |
| djszapi | since it means they can have whatever order. | 11:23 |
| gri | djszapi: I do not use ordering of accounts in any way | 11:23 |
| djszapi | I am the wrong person to talk to about it, I have no idea why they need german sim card. | 11:23 |
| djszapi | You should really ask them, not me :) | 11:23 |
| djszapi | gri: yes, but I use, remember ? | 11:23 |
| gri | djszapi: Sure but you talked about there's something wrong with my plugin | 11:24 |
| djszapi | that is a different matter | 11:24 |
| gri | ah ok | 11:24 |
| djszapi | I am not too concerned on that, if my plugin works :) | 11:24 |
| djszapi | but sadly, ordering might be not an option... | 11:24 |
| djszapi | so I need to re-design it | 11:24 |
| gri | I am not convinced the ovi qa knows that kind of things like "hey, this guy uses custom ordering" | 11:25 |
| gri | since they did not understand how to test my program | 11:25 |
| djszapi | it is simple to check, right ? | 11:25 |
| djszapi | it is a simple etc installation entry int oa definite location, remember ? | 11:25 |
| gri | yes and why should this be forbidden? | 11:26 |
| djszapi | because it was not designed that way ? | 11:26 |
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| djszapi | and the official stuff should come first ? | 11:26 |
| gri | djszapi: Then don't put your stuff at the front? :) | 11:27 |
| djszapi | does not help, because ordering was not designed for this | 11:27 |
| djszapi | official stuff is allowed to do that, and custom stuff cannot reorder anything, they are just put into the lsit | 11:28 |
| djszapi | as they come.. | 11:28 |
| gri | I think they should atleast allow any positive number | 11:29 |
| gri | since the official applications are negative ones | 11:29 |
| djszapi | I do not think that is any good | 11:30 |
| djszapi | since there would be a ratrace for zero or one, whatever. | 11:30 |
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| Creteil | Hi all | 12:08 |
| Creteil | Can someone point me to a detailed explanation of the 'Developer Mode' ? I have already activated it, but where I can have information about all options like 'Debugging', 'Networking', 'Resource usage analisys', etc ... | 12:08 |
| gri | what information? | 12:08 |
| gri | what's included in "debugging"? | 12:08 |
| chouchoune | if you click on install on each option, it lists packages that will be installed | 12:09 |
| chouchoune | in debugging, there is maemo-debug-scri[ts and gdb | 12:09 |
| Creteil | gri, actually I have activated the developer mode, but after that I can see many options available with an 'Install' button in front ... | 12:09 |
| chouchoune | on networking, it lists tcpdump | 12:09 |
| Creteil | chouchoune, ok niquel .. | 12:09 |
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| Creteil | chouchoune, I didn't want to click on button before knowing what things installed ... | 12:10 |
| chouchoune | no idea if you can see more : maybe look at the packages directly | 12:10 |
| chouchoune | but I don't know where they're located | 12:11 |
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| mgedmin | Creteil, basically, enabling developer mode installs (1) an xterm, (2) openssh server and client, and (3) SDK Connectivity Tool | 12:11 |
| mgedmin | all the other options are extras | 12:11 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, yep but strace, gdb and many others 'extras' look like 'mandatory' IMHO ... :-) | 12:12 |
| Creteil | Well ... | 12:12 |
| mgedmin | good point, maybe my list is incomplete | 12:13 |
| mgedmin | IIRC the QtCreator IDE has some magic remote debugging capabilities | 12:13 |
| mgedmin | so maybe gdb is also installed automatically | 12:13 |
| chouchoune | no | 12:13 |
| mgedmin | to enable that to work out of the box | 12:13 |
| chouchoune | it's with Debugging | 12:13 |
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| Creteil | I have read meego forum about installation of 'openvpn' on the N9, but it look like it was not already completely properly packaged ... | 12:14 |
| mgedmin | have I maybe manually installed things like strace and gdb with apt-get install then? | 12:14 |
| * mgedmin scratches head | 12:14 | |
| mgedmin | I'll shut up now | 12:14 |
| Creteil | :-) | 12:14 |
| chouchoune | mmmhhh, unless Debugging is automatically installed with developer mode ;) | 12:15 |
| chouchoune | as it's installed on my phone, it may be the case : I don't remember what exactly I activated now ;) | 12:15 |
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| Creteil | I have ported many packages under the N900, and trying to install devel scratchbox for N9 it break the installation of my scratchbox for N900 ... Someone know how I can use the 2 without troubles ? | 12:18 |
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| * mgedmin wants to know too! | 12:20 | |
| Creteil | :-) | 12:20 |
| mgedmin | I only have a harmattan scratchbox on this machine | 12:20 |
| mgedmin | people sometimes ask me to update some of my old fremantle packages; I'd like to oblige them | 12:21 |
| mgedmin | what we need is an updated version of this recipe: http://inz.fi/blog/2007/10/22/multi-target-development-for-maemo/ | 12:21 |
| mgedmin | oh, it was updated for fremantle, cool! | 12:21 |
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| * mgedmin will try it out later | 12:22 | |
| Creteil | I also read some informations about current installation of openvpn under the N9, with the aegis trick, but it's not evident if there is an installation like 'apt-get install openvpn' that work out of the box ... | 12:23 |
| mece | what's in the developer-mode software update? | 12:24 |
| mece | Creteil, mgedmin, I have both. I just installed new and setup the two targets. Followed some instructions from developer library iirc | 12:25 |
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| Creteil | mece, you mean, I have to remove the old one, then install the new one, and finally under the new one setup 'fremantle' & 'harmattan' targets ? True ? | 12:27 |
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| * mgedmin ran the Python installer for the harmattan scratchbox SDK, which set up two harmattan targets | 12:30 | |
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| Creteil | Does I am mad or the instructions for installing 'openvpn' here are strange : https://12vpn.com/setup/harmattan/ | 12:31 |
| Creteil | Why I need to add a repository, install a package, then install manually another one with dpkg ? | 12:31 |
| Creteil | Wouldn't be better to just install the last one with dpkg ? | 12:31 |
| mece | Creteil, dunno, but that's how I did it. | 12:31 |
| mece | Creteil, I upgraded my computer at the same time and my sb had some problems so I just backed up my sb home and removed the whole thing | 12:32 |
| mgedmin | Creteil, my guess would be that the last deb is not available from any repository | 12:32 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, ok I can understand that, but that doesn't explain why I need to install a 'not functional' in terms of aegis compatibility before installing the right one ... | 12:34 |
| petteri | so I got developer mode update on my N9. Any idea what was included with that? | 12:34 |
| mgedmin | again, my *guess* would be that the apt-get install pulls in some dependencies form the same repo | 12:34 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, ok ... | 12:34 |
| mgedmin | so you could perhaps add the repo to sources.list, dpkg -i the last deb, then apt-get install -f | 12:34 |
| mgedmin | (and if apt-get install -f does nothing, then the repo turns out to be unnecessary after all) | 12:35 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, do you know if packaging for N9 is easy has packaging for N900 ? | 12:36 |
| mgedmin | it's the same | 12:37 |
| mgedmin | a bit harder, maybe, because you may have to add aegis manifests | 12:37 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, I mean, actually, I have just to start my scratchbox, build my package, and 'dput' my package in 'devel-extras' ... | 12:37 |
| mgedmin | and a bit easier, perhaps, because when you use QtCreator, it does the packaging for you (in a really crappy way, tho) | 12:38 |
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| mgedmin | there's no extras-devel for harmattan | 12:38 |
| mgedmin | there's Community OBS, which is something new to me | 12:38 |
| mgedmin | which means everyone can get his/her own apt repo on the COBS server somewhere | 12:38 |
| mgedmin | with really ugly long inconvenient URLs | 12:39 |
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| mgedmin | and rzr (IIRC) opened his own repo to be shared by everyone until we get something resembling the old extras | 12:39 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, damn it look like some months pass before I understand all the new way of making packages :-( | 12:40 |
| mgedmin | _making_ packages is the same; _sharing_ them with the world is what changed | 12:40 |
| decibyte | is something like extras(/dev/test) planned? | 12:41 |
| Creteil | mgedmin, by making I want to say from the 1st step (patching, building, etc, packaging) to the last one (send it to a repository) ... | 12:42 |
| decibyte | i love the concept of the community responsiblity to promote packages | 12:42 |
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| mgedmin | I think people are working on it, but I don't know, really | 12:53 |
| mgedmin | I'm really bad at focusing on one (or a few) thing at a time | 12:53 |
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| M4rtinK | mgedmin, decibyte: There is some progress on this, as described by X-Fade in this TMO post: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1133869&postcount=44 | 13:10 |
| M4rtinK | I'd guess suggestions & help will be appreciated once the proposal is published | 13:11 |
| decibyte | M4rtinK: thanks! interesting. | 13:12 |
| decibyte | how come this hasn't been taken care of yet? not that i'm blaming anyone, i just don't have the proper insight into how it's working. but it seemed to be in place from the start for fremantle? | 13:15 |
| decibyte | i mean: i'm just curious :) | 13:15 |
| M4rtinK | in part this delay might have been caused by Linux Foundation blocking the launch of apps.meego.com | 13:17 |
| M4rtinK | thus a new infrastructure had to be started on apps.formeego.com | 13:18 |
| decibyte | for what reason? | 13:18 |
| M4rtinK | I think patents and stuff ? http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Problem_Statement | 13:18 |
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| M4rtinK | in hindsight it seems to be quite fortunate that the current repository is independent from MeeGo and LF | 13:19 |
| decibyte | i see | 13:20 |
| decibyte | thanks again | 13:20 |
| M4rtinK | another cause might be the fixing various issues with the repository system as used in Fremantle | 13:20 |
| M4rtinK | the huge catalog download size for Extras-devel | 13:20 |
| M4rtinK | making update, upgrade and installation of packages very slow | 13:21 |
| M4rtinK | and there were even a few maintainership problem, eq taking over maintaining a package from a vanished person | 13:23 |
| Arkenoi | http://www.dhl.com/content/g0/en/express/tracking.shtml?brand=DHL&AWB=6936258346%0D%0A does not look like it is ever going to end | 13:23 |
| M4rtinK | like Pali taking over from Titan on the Kernel-power | 13:23 |
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| M4rtinK | interesting enough, you don't have to be a maintainer to upload a newer version of the package to Extras-devel | 13:24 |
| M4rtinK | which is currently causing some issues to Marble because somebody upgraded the Monav routing daemon with a development snapshot, breaking routing data compatibility | 13:25 |
| M4rtinK | decibyte: so in short, there is definitely room for improvement, but the delay is quite unfortunate | 13:26 |
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| decibyte | M4rtinK: i didn't know about all the problems. but at least there was a central repo. the current situation for harmattan is a somewhat unfortunate. with a handfull of unofficial places to upload, some of them not even repositories providing upgrades etc, and a lot of people just making standalone deb's available. but i'm sure you all think the same. | 13:48 |
| decibyte | it's just that it was one of the great advantages of fremantle, i think. and i really miss it when i have to convince my friends that this is a better os than theirs :) "get it from the repo" is a lot easier to say than "go to this link, download deb, transfer to phone, ..." isn't that convincing. | 13:50 |
| decibyte | but i'm glad something os going on. given all circumstances, it's impressive it's still alive at all and that anybody care :) | 13:51 |
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| M4rtinK | yeah, it's quite chaotic at the moment - I plan to release and application simultaneously to Ovi + Apps FroMeego + an OBS repo | 13:55 |
| gri | M4rtinK: the same application? | 13:56 |
| M4rtinK | and I wonder what happens if someone tries to install it from multiple sources at once :) | 13:56 |
| M4rtinK | yep | 13:56 |
| gri | if one installs it from ovi and gets the update from apps for meego first, he cann not install it without uninstalling the ovi version first | 13:57 |
| M4rtinK | nice to know | 13:57 |
| gri | they have two different package origins | 13:58 |
| gri | apps for meego is "" while ovi is "com.nokia.maemo/ovi" or something like that | 13:58 |
| M4rtinK | well, that settles the issue I'd guess | 13:58 |
| M4rtinK | and OBS repo vs AFM ? | 13:58 |
| M4rtinK | would it just pick the newest version (which would not be a problem IMO) ? | 13:59 |
| gri | no idea :) X-Fade knows that | 13:59 |
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| matrixx | doesn't ovi terms say that the app can't be installable from any other source than ovi? | 14:00 |
| matrixx | not sure, but I've been under that impression | 14:00 |
| gri | I also heard that some days ago | 14:01 |
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| Milhouse | hmm... what's in this developer mode software update I just received on my N950? | 16:24 |
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| RST38h | Milhous: arachnids! | 16:26 |
| Milhouse | i'm sure there'll be a few of them - hopefully not too many though! | 16:27 |
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| gri | also nice that you can't click on the package to see the changelog before installing | 16:39 |
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| BluesLee | damn, on every reboot my account passwords for email/twitter/skype etc get lost | 16:54 |
| gri | saw the some issue on an iphone yesterday :P | 16:55 |
| gri | same* | 16:55 |
| BluesLee | this is no excuse:-) | 16:56 |
| gri | I also tried siri yesterday for the first time ... said "how is the weather tomorrow?" like in the tv advertisements ... iPhone replied with "calling 4894984" | 16:56 |
| BluesLee | how the f... to fix this? bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 says i should wait for pr 1.2 | 16:57 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 16:57 |
| BluesLee | something seems to be messed up, cant believe this that there is no immediate solution | 16:58 |
| rm_work | *are you* running the latest firmware? | 16:59 |
| BluesLee | yes, i do | 16:59 |
| dm8tbr | BluesLee: the solution is to reflash | 17:01 |
| BluesLee | sure, and if it happens again i will reflash and reflash | 17:02 |
| dm8tbr | I'd have said to go back to pr1.0 but sadly that's not an option | 17:02 |
| BluesLee | does this happen only occasionally? | 17:03 |
| rm_work | BluesLee: N9 or N950? | 17:04 |
| BluesLee | from the bug report: after hardreset accounts need to be recreated, which is what i did twice at least using pr1.1, with no improvement whatsoever. | 17:04 |
| BluesLee | n9 | 17:04 |
| BluesLee | and reflashing is no choice as there is no downloadable firmware out there, just navifirm and for that you need windows | 17:06 |
| BluesLee | damn | 17:06 |
| gri | installing windows xp inside virtualbox takes about 10 minutes | 17:07 |
| BluesLee | gri: navifirm crashes within virtualbox | 17:07 |
| gri | oh ok ... | 17:08 |
| gri | there are also tools which let you create a windows that you can boot from usb stick | 17:08 |
| rm_work | you could try what I do when I need to use a Mac: find someone I know with a Mac | 17:09 |
| rm_work | IE, find someone you know with a windows PC | 17:09 |
| rm_work | can't imagine it'd be too hard? | 17:09 |
| BluesLee | thanks gri, i think there is a solution out there without resetting, reflashing and so on | 17:10 |
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| npm | gri: yeah, Siri sux.... try http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/ instead ... it doesn't pretend to be intelligent, or that it understands you, which is a fundamental design flaw of Siri ( http://books.google.com/books?id=2sRC8vcDYNEC ), which doesn't understand anything... the UI should reflect how stupid the program is, and that's what i did in voicetogoog :-) | 17:30 |
| jreznik | has anybody tried to establish network session with specific configuration automatically? I've got configuration, it's valid (isValid() returns true) but when I open the session it immediately fails with "unspecified error" instead connecting to that apn... it works when already connected | 17:35 |
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| ZogG_N9 | mgedmin, ping | 17:48 |
| gri | npm: even if all those voice systems would work perfectly, I would never talk to my phone :) | 17:52 |
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| npm | it actually works nicely and is better than typing | 18:01 |
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| djszapi | gri: do you have some accounts-ui library in /usr/lib | 18:51 |
| djszapi | I have only this, but I guess this is an internal stuff: libnaccounts-ui0 | 18:51 |
| gri | I should also have this one but this is nokia accounts ui | 18:52 |
| gri | also have this in scratchbox | 18:52 |
| gri | no phone here to check right now | 18:52 |
| djszapi | gri: /scratchbox/users/lpapp/home/lpapp/accounts-plugin/ocs/src/ocsaccountsetupcontext.cpp:587: undefined reference to `AccountsUI::trIdFromSignonError(SignOn::Error::ErrorType, QString const&)' | 18:54 |
| tomma | anyone tried QtQuick3D in harmattan? | 18:57 |
| djszapi | I tried Qt3D | 18:57 |
| djszapi | it sort of bricks the device. | 18:57 |
| tomma | bricks? | 18:58 |
| djszapi | yes | 18:58 |
| djszapi | the tga plugin, especially. | 18:58 |
| tomma | hmm... well it was problem installing it | 18:58 |
| djszapi | not the install | 18:59 |
| djszapi | it bricks randomly during the runtime | 18:59 |
| djszapi | but we fixed it for PR 1.2 | 18:59 |
| tomma | ok... pkgmgr just didn't install it because of that | 18:59 |
| tomma | but problem is that i have no idea how i should use it in harmattan as rotating ui crashes, swiping to background crashes etc... | 19:00 |
| djszapi | works for me | 19:00 |
| djszapi | apart from the tga plugin and its random brick | 19:00 |
| tomma | but have you tried using those qml elements? | 19:01 |
| djszapi | yes | 19:01 |
| djszapi | the examples are using that for instnace | 19:01 |
| djszapi | for instance* | 19:01 |
| decibyte | is it 1.1 or 1.2 being pushed by nokia atm? | 19:02 |
| djszapi | 1.1 | 19:02 |
| djszapi | not sure if they shipped 1.1.1 | 19:03 |
| decibyte | okay. nothing for me then. but my friends wit n9 will be _very_ happy now :) | 19:03 |
| decibyte | *with | 19:03 |
| decibyte | was it a mistake that some of us got it some weeks ago? it seems to be a released now along with the white version. | 19:05 |
| djszapi | gri: do you have any ideas for this ? http://paste.kde.org/158222/ | 19:07 |
| tomma | djszapi, oh ok... so you need to use QDeclarativeView3D... so it wont be that easy to just throw Viewport in normal harmattan qml ui... | 19:13 |
| gri | djszapi: Forgot the cpp for OcsAccountWidgetModel? | 19:15 |
| djszapi | gri: it is intended to not have cpp | 19:16 |
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| BluesLee | need help with flasher | 19:17 |
| BluesLee | i downloaded corresponding firmware with navifirm (country id on micro sim) and a linux flasher from nokias webpage | 19:18 |
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| BluesLee | kernel etc are flashed well, but he stops on rootfs with "mmc: Could not remove mount directory /tmp/sudmmc5MeOaA/mnt: No such file or directory" | 19:19 |
| djszapi | navifirm is an illegal image hosting | 19:19 |
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| BluesLee | djszapi: i dont care | 19:19 |
| BluesLee | djszapi: my n9 is bricked as my account settings are removed on every reboot, so i went for a reflash and this is not trivial if you dont have windows | 19:21 |
| djszapi | we do not care about illegal stuff | 19:22 |
| djszapi | for good | 19:22 |
| BluesLee | then tell me how to avoid bug 123 | 19:23 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 19:23 |
| BluesLee | should i wait 5 months for pr 1.2? | 19:23 |
| Venemo | just relash | 19:24 |
| BluesLee | Venemo: i am trying that without success so far | 19:25 |
| jonni | whats the command line that you are using, and md5sum of the file? | 19:25 |
| BluesLee | ../flasher -f -F DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin | 19:26 |
| Venemo | BluesLee, wut's the issue? | 19:26 |
| BluesLee | now i get "Update content failed to verify against cert: SW certificate not updated" | 19:26 |
| BluesLee | before it stopped when flashing the rootfs | 19:26 |
| BluesLee | just blinking:-) | 19:26 |
| Venemo | weird. | 19:26 |
| jonni | BluesLee: run md5sum on the bin file and paste result | 19:27 |
| Venemo | well, fortunatley my N950 hasn't displayed this issue yet. | 19:27 |
| BluesLee | jonni: cc828321c85b5f677e58f360b616ecf3 DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin | 19:27 |
| BluesLee | jonni: you think its corrupted? | 19:27 |
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| jonni | hmm, so file isnt corrupted | 19:28 |
| jonni | usually error happens if battery is not 100% when flashing is started or hardware broken. | 19:28 |
| jonni | or bad usb-port on desktop | 19:29 |
| BluesLee | output http://pastebin.com/BViccsGi | 19:30 |
| BluesLee | damn i have to find someone with windows:-) | 19:31 |
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| BluesLee | on the n900 things are much easier, firmware images are dowloadable form nokia servers | 19:32 |
| BluesLee | now i have to use illegal navifirm or whatever it is called or exe files running them with wine (if it works) | 19:33 |
| jonni | that looks like usb port problems, or trying to use usb through virtual machine | 19:33 |
| BluesLee | and all that flashing a linux device, makes no sense | 19:33 |
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| BluesLee | jonni: thanks, will be back in some minutes | 19:35 |
| jonni | I've never used windows to flash, only been using linux and mac. | 19:35 |
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| CissWit | Hi. Do any of you know why the PR1.1 upgrade is not available for me in the application's upgrade interface ? I got the developper mode upgrade today, but not the PR1.1 | 19:37 |
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| jonni | maybe you dont have wifi on, or just happen to be operator variant which hasnt been updated yet. | 19:42 |
| CissWit | so i should try to look for upgrade from a wifi access and not my operator's one ? | 19:43 |
| jonni | not sure, I usually atleast always have upgraded my phone through wifi, if there happends to be some logic inside that wifi is 'free' and offering 200+megs upgrade only happends when connected on wifi. | 19:50 |
| jonni | but I havent looked the sources if there is such a logic coded in. | 19:51 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: ping2 | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | hey, ZogG_laptop | 19:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | hey | 19:52 |
| CissWit | i wouldn't have upgrade by the operator's network anyway. I was just wondering why i had no upgrade available. | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | I dropped your first ping, sorry | 19:52 |
| ZogG_laptop | i wonder do you have libcurl or curl on n950? | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | I think I've wget | 19:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | and on n9? | 19:53 |
| CissWit | yes, wget is available with developper mode | 19:53 |
| mgedmin | I've both wget and curl, actually | 19:53 |
| ZogG_laptop | on n9 as well? | 19:54 |
| mgedmin | why do you ask? | 19:54 |
| CissWit | ZogG_laptop: the "utilities" package of developper mode on n9 provides wget. | 19:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: imgur use curl and i have't set it as dep, i wonder would it crash without it? | 19:55 |
| mgedmin | oh! curl is not available on the n9, somehow | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | my friend tried it and it crashes for him | 19:55 |
| mgedmin | wget is | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: it is actually apt-get install curl libcurl3 libcurl4-something | 19:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: can you check it on your n9? | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | here: http://pastie.org/3006300 | 19:56 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw i got update today - developer-tools, affraid to update =) | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | I've manually added the harmattan/sdk repo on my n9, so the apt-get install test would be useless for your purposes | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | but notice how curl is available from the nokia repo on the n950, but not on the n9? | 19:57 |
| mgedmin | curious | 19:57 |
| * mgedmin installed developer-tools upgrade on the n9 today, didn't notice anything different | 19:57 | |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: i have curl on n9 | 19:57 |
| mgedmin | I remember trying to apt-get install it before I added the sdk repo, and getting an error | 19:57 |
| mgedmin | I said wtf and installed wget instead | 19:58 |
| * mgedmin runs apt-cache search libcurl | 19:58 | |
| mgedmin | libcurl3 is available from https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com | 19:58 |
| CissWit | without the sdk repo, libcurl3 is available but not curl. | 19:58 |
| mgedmin | both libcurl3 and libcurl4-openssl-dev are available from the sdk repo | 19:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have 7.18.2-8maemo5+0m5 on n9 | 19:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'm on dev mode maybe that's the reason | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | I'm on dev mode too | 19:59 |
| ZogG_laptop | oh f* i have it from russkie repo =) | 19:59 |
| mgedmin | :) | 20:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | that i added for xmms2 =) | 20:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's maemo version =) | 20:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: do you have libcurl on n9? | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | as I already said, libcurl3 is available on the n9 from the predefined nokia repo | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | and I have it installed | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | not sure why | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | I definitely didn't apt-get install it myself | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | fbreader depends on it, hmm | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | mp-harmattan-001-pr depends on it | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | it's part of the stock system, apparently | 20:01 |
| mgedmin | apt-transport-https depends on it | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | whoops | 20:02 |
| mgedmin | I thought I stopped the forkbomb with pkill -STOP -u buildbot, but apparently some processes slipped through | 20:02 |
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| djszapi | http://paste.kde.org/158252/ and http://paste.kde.org/158246/ -> anybody having an idea for this weird stuff ? | 20:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: so can you try on n9 and say if it crashes on upload or anybody else? | 20:06 |
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| ZogG_laptop | with n9 | 20:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw what is new in developer-tools? | 20:06 |
| mgedmin | bit busy at the moment | 20:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | i got an update today | 20:06 |
| Venemo_N950 | me too | 20:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | Venemo_N950: what's inside? i'm affraid to get cut of devel-su ssh and so on | 20:07 |
| ieatlint | it updates aegis to create an even safer environment | 20:07 |
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| ZogG_laptop | you mean close? | 20:08 |
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| ieatlint | haha, i was kidding, but according to apt-get, the two packages that will install are aegis-developer-unknown-source-policy and developer-mode | 20:16 |
| mgedmin | well, devel-su still works | 20:16 |
| ieatlint | hard to say what a package with that name does | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | "Specify allowed credentials for unknown source for developer mode" | 20:17 |
| djszapi | ieatlint: actually, quite easy to say | 20:17 |
| djszapi | it is about the unknown source policy... | 20:17 |
| djszapi | what else... | 20:17 |
| ieatlint | heh, i meant what the update does | 20:17 |
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| ieatlint | i could see it making things more open or closed | 20:17 |
| djszapi | updated the unknown source policy ? | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | it contains no files!? | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | and no maintainer scripts | 20:18 |
| ieatlint | i love explanations that consist of reading the package name :) | 20:18 |
| djszapi | you cannot even do that ? | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | and it doesn't depend on any other package | 20:18 |
| mgedmin | weird | 20:19 |
| djszapi | since it just is a metadata about policies ? | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | but where is the metadata hidden? | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | the aegis manifest embedded in the .deb? | 20:19 |
| folivora | Gday, is there some develop version of some xmpp-client? I know that gtalk use xmpp. I am looking some fork, so I could see is it possible to get some whatsup-xmpp app up and running? | 20:19 |
| mgedmin | I don't know where those are stored | 20:19 |
| djszapi | mgedmin: mmm, you do not understand what a manifest is ... | 20:20 |
| djszapi | could you please read the public documentation ? | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | what? me read documentation? you presume too much! :) | 20:20 |
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| ieatlint | folivora: can't help you with souce code, but i wonder if this method for creating a gtalk account would work for any xmpp... http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#GTalk_and_Skype_account_setup | 20:22 |
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| mgedmin | (the aegis manifest is an XML file named _aegis and added to the outer ar archive makes up the .deb file, next to control.tar.gz and data.tar.gz) | 20:24 |
| djszapi | no | 20:25 |
| djszapi | the aegis manifest file is foobar.aegis | 20:25 |
| folivora | ieatlint: Thanks, that looks promising, basicly gotta see how it works with other xmpp-protocol-clients. =) | 20:26 |
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| CissWit | folivora: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1127524&postcount=127 for xmpp | 20:26 |
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| folivora | CissWit: thanks for you too | 20:27 |
| folivora | I think that this is the information what I needed =) | 20:27 |
| djszapi | writing an account plugin is very hard :P | 20:28 |
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| ieatlint | considering it's just telepathy, i wouldn't imagine writing one would be that terribly difficult | 20:34 |
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| ieatlint | the n900 used the same system, unless nokia decided to make things very proprietary all of a sudden | 20:35 |
| dm8tbr | ieatlint: the ui bit is undocumented | 20:44 |
| ieatlint | i was under the impression you didn't write a ui | 20:45 |
| ieatlint | except perhaps something for the add account screen | 20:45 |
| w00t | right, and that would be the accounts plugin being talked about | 20:46 |
| djszapiN9 | ieatlint, it is actually exactly not tp | 20:51 |
| djszapiN9 | the backend design is not documented | 20:52 |
| ieatlint | that's brilliant | 20:52 |
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| djszapiN9 | so everybody writes an own parser | 20:54 |
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| djszapiN9 | in not a super simple case | 20:54 |
| ieatlint | so the telepathy-glib and telepathy-qt4 docs in the platform sdk are not correct? | 20:55 |
| djszapiN9 | the setup context is almost 600 LOC boilerplate for everybody | 20:55 |
| yipdw | ieatlint: another bit to contend with is storage of the account details, which is (I think) probably not technically difficult, just not documented | 20:55 |
| yipdw | that's actually what I'm trying to figure out now | 20:56 |
| djszapiN9 | the storage is simple | 20:56 |
| djszapiN9 | if you parsed the file properly | 20:56 |
| yipdw | parsed which file? | 20:57 |
| djszapiN9 | and you use signon supported method | 20:57 |
| djszapiN9 | well, provider, no ? | 20:57 |
| yipdw | are you referring to the XML provider file? | 20:57 |
| djszapiN9 | and once it is all done, it is getting more difficult with non accounts-ui basic widgets | 20:58 |
| djszapiN9 | custom widgets for configure and edit | 20:58 |
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| djszapiN9 | good thing is that once my plugin is done, it is almost copy paste to do the next frame for yet another one | 20:59 |
| djszapiN9 | which is sort of annoying why the boilerplate is not done by the library | 21:00 |
| yipdw | I mean, one thing that I'd like to do is store not just username and password, but also all the details peculiar to XMPP, such as device priority and STUN configuration for voice calls | 21:00 |
| yipdw | I don't doubt that the methods are easy once you figure them out | 21:00 |
| yipdw | I just haven't really had the opportunity to sit down and piece it all together | 21:01 |
| djszapiN9 | and it is getting more complicate when you try to ship more providers with the same provider plugin | 21:01 |
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| djszapiN9 | and then various service configs for different providers | 21:03 |
| BluesLee | now i understand why klaus said that resetting the device did not help with bug 123 | 21:04 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 21:04 |
| djszapiN9 | because the c++ must be flexible enough to handle the various providers and their services. It probably makes sense to write a lib instead, first in that case | 21:04 |
| BluesLee | i like the bot bug 122 | 21:04 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=122 nor, ---, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, Contact highlighting doesn't work properly in SMS (N9). | 21:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | Corsac: btw i think i solved bug 123 | 21:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | bot bug 123 | 21:06 |
| BluesLee | ZogG_laptop: i wanted to go to a juggle session but this bug prevented me to do that, 4 hours for nothing | 21:07 |
| BluesLee | i was not able to flash from linux, then i used nokia software updater as navifirm software is illegal as i learnt here | 21:08 |
| BluesLee | but nokia software updater flashes only the firmware not mmc | 21:08 |
| BluesLee | lets hope that it does not appear on a regular basis | 21:09 |
| * dm8tbr would love to see the 'illegality' of navifirm or whatever it is named tested in court ;) | 21:10 | |
| Stskeeps | "did you do anything, at all, to protect the images"? | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:10 |
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| ieatlint | well, the argument would be copyright infringement, not illegal access | 21:13 |
| BluesLee | but honestly, how do you flash mmc without using navifirm resp. where do you download the mmc images legally? | 21:13 |
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| BluesLee | the software updater from nokia cant do that job | 21:13 |
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| djszapi | it is illegal to get the images from navifirm | 21:14 |
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| djszapi | Nokia has never documented this for valid reasons. | 21:14 |
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| ieatlint | heh, and nokia will never go after an end user trying to repair their phone | 21:14 |
| BluesLee | but from where should we get them | 21:14 |
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| djszapi | BluesLee: why would you like to get if Nokia does not wanna provide it, just the updater ? | 21:15 |
| BluesLee | how should i handle bug 123? | 21:15 |
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| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 21:15 |
| BluesLee | return the device to nokia care? | 21:15 |
| djszapi | if they can repair it, of course | 21:15 |
| djszapi | I thought it is obvious. | 21:16 |
| BluesLee | i see your argument | 21:16 |
| ieatlint | i think part of the confusion is that nokia does provide for the n950 | 21:17 |
| BluesLee | i would appreciate if there is a fix for such a serious bug that this fix is distributed before pr 1.2 | 21:17 |
| ieatlint | and the implied reason for not having it for the n9 is to prevent the average consumer from bricking their phone | 21:17 |
| djszapi | I would also like to do many things | 21:17 |
| djszapi | it would be nice to get a more mature qml, or at least get my requests merged. | 21:17 |
| BluesLee | ieatlint: bug 123 bricked my phone:-) | 21:17 |
| ieatlint | you should then, doing things is productive | 21:17 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 21:17 |
| ieatlint | if we keep saying bug 123, i bet the bot gets banned from freenode for spam | 21:18 |
| BluesLee | hehe | 21:18 |
| BluesLee | okay, lets say bug 198 | 21:18 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=198 maj, High, ---, ext-risto.lahti, NEED, Messageserver with high CPU utilization and mail is not sync'd. | 21:18 |
| BluesLee | just a joke | 21:18 |
| ieatlint | :) | 21:18 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o dm8tbr | 21:19 | |
| ieatlint | djszapi: they're not trying to mature qml, they're trying to make it even more niche with qtquick 2.0 | 21:19 |
| dm8tbr | ieatlint: or someone gets kicked off the channel | 21:19 |
| *** dm8tbr sets mode: -o dm8tbr | 21:19 | |
| BluesLee | i wanted to watch BrBa and now i have to reinstall my n9 instead | 21:19 |
| ieatlint | dm8tbr: no need to threaten me, i'm merely pointing out what will happen, not instigating it | 21:19 |
| djszapi | ieatlint: :) qml2 is still in the future, and we live in the present :) | 21:20 |
| ieatlint | actually i'm stuck dealing with qml2 already | 21:21 |
| djszapi | also, qml2 does not have 3d support for many things | 21:21 |
| djszapi | can you give me the release link of qml2 ? | 21:21 |
| BluesLee | djszapi: you are a kind of Nokia community manager, right? | 21:21 |
| djszapi | so that I can make it a real dependency for a project ? | 21:21 |
| djszapi | BluesLee: nope. | 21:21 |
| ieatlint | there is no qml2 release to m knowledge | 21:22 |
| djszapi | exactly | 21:22 |
| ieatlint | i'm compiling out of git | 21:22 |
| djszapi | also, it is soon 2012, we live in the 3d world come on :) | 21:23 |
| ieatlint | i'm way ahead of you... been in a 3d world for years now | 21:23 |
| djszapi | why do you use qml2 then ? | 21:23 |
| djszapi | you use a different framework for 3d ? | 21:24 |
| ieatlint | work | 21:24 |
| * dm8tbr didn't like walking like an egyptian and switched to 3d ;) | 21:24 | |
| djszapi | ieatlint: last I checked the qml2 source code, x and y coordinates were hard coded, no z et al | 21:24 |
| ieatlint | we're not using 3d | 21:25 |
| djszapi | it is okay for 2d , I guess.. | 21:25 |
| ieatlint | company is after qmlscene | 21:25 |
| djszapi | I am looking forward to seeing this "feature phone" of Nokia. I am curious about the graphics because Harmattan just has a dirty hack for opengl | 21:26 |
| djszapi | to get it actually through the viewport. It is not a real nice implementation on the opengl side. | 21:26 |
| Sput | qml2 (whatever it's named now) is part of Qt5 | 21:27 |
| Sput | (which is already available as source) | 21:27 |
| djszapi | that is the proble. It is not released, and will probably not released in few months either. | 21:27 |
| ieatlint | we know, the point is there's not even a beta of it | 21:27 |
| djszapi | and there is no even release schedule | 21:28 |
| ieatlint | they're hoping for a release around june | 21:28 |
| djszapi | so there are no even plans for alpha/beta releases :) | 21:28 |
| ieatlint | lars spoke about it at dev days in sf | 21:28 |
| djszapi | yes, but this is personal "hope". | 21:28 |
| ieatlint | wants beta in february, and a tp out around april if i recall right | 21:28 |
| ieatlint | yeah, very true | 21:28 |
| infobot | //kick ieatlint | 21:29 |
| djszapi | there are no concrete schedules. | 21:29 |
| ieatlint | someone out there likes me :) | 21:29 |
| djszapi | we are still working on kde -> qt5 porting | 21:30 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o infobot | 21:30 | |
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| djszapi | without knowing how much time we have. | 21:30 |
| ieatlint | and what have i done to anger now? | 21:30 |
| infobot | warms up ICBMs | 21:30 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o infobot | 21:31 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ~botsnack | 21:32 |
| infobot | :), DocScrutinizer | 21:32 |
| ieatlint | ah, screwing with me :) | 21:32 |
| Corsac | ZogG_laptop: how? | 21:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | Corsac: apsswords are reset after reboot but not every 20 minutes like they used to | 21:35 |
| Sput | ieatlint: ah, is it June now | 21:35 |
| Sput | at DevDays in Munich they were aiming for April | 21:36 |
| Sput | with feature freeze in January | 21:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | Corsac: i installed 3 packages for jabber and msn and other protocols from tmo | 21:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | ieatlint: she should've said "/kick ieatlint 1 2 3 don't mess with me" | 21:36 |
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| ieatlint | rhyming kicks are he best kind | 21:36 |
| djszapiN9 | ieatlint, i have time to finish my module into qt5 i think | 21:36 |
| djszapiN9 | or even write yet another one | 21:37 |
| Sput | ieatlint: it's of course much better for all of us to have some more time for adding features to Qt5... the first freeze date was planned for September 2011, that would've been madness | 21:37 |
| djszapiN9 | why | 21:38 |
| ieatlint | go try and install qt5 on your n9/50 :P | 21:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then sometimes she's just smarter than me, noticing me about it's not been her who got abused with bug 123, and I actually heard she thinks _MeeGoBot_ is a bit too retarded for her | 21:38 |
| djszapiN9 | maintainets should take care of releasable states in master | 21:38 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug https://harmattan-bugs.nokia.com/show_bug.cgi?id=123 maj, Highest, ---, ext-risto.lahti, RESO FIXED, accounts passwords are not remembered accross reboots | 21:38 |
| Sput | djszapiN9: because in particular KDE wants to move stuff into Qt5 in order to reduce the KDE forked classes | 21:38 |
| Sput | djszapiN9: we can't do that anymore after the freeze, at least not if it requires bic changes | 21:39 |
| djszapiN9 | that is ongoing | 21:39 |
| djszapiN9 | yes we can | 21:39 |
| Sput | now imagine it would've been frozen in September | 21:39 |
| Sput | no, feature freeze means binary compat forever | 21:39 |
| djszapiN9 | since they are new classes | 21:39 |
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| Sput | stuff like the localisation requires binary changes | 21:39 |
| djszapiN9 | no, that is not true | 21:39 |
| Sput | adding new stuff isn't a problem | 21:39 |
| Sput | I've sit in numerous discussions about that qt QtCS and other occasions :) | 21:40 |
| Sput | *at | 21:40 |
| djszapiN9 | localization is not being merged at all | 21:40 |
| Sput | oh? that would be news to me | 21:40 |
| ieatlint | it appears i successfully started a quasi-off-topic discussion | 21:40 |
| Sput | all the new datetime and calendar stuff is already in Qt5 | 21:40 |
| Sput | was one of the first merges after open gov went live | 21:40 |
| djszapiN9 | localization remains in qt5 for many reasons | 21:41 |
| Sput | yes. in qt5. rather than in KDE. | 21:41 |
| djszapiN9 | no | 21:41 |
| djszapiN9 | qt5 will have qt4 loc. | 21:42 |
| Sput | it already has evolved from that... | 21:42 |
| djszapiN9 | not really | 21:42 |
| Sput | if you mean translations, I think the discussion there is still ongoing | 21:42 |
| Sput | but the new calendar system is already in qt5. | 21:43 |
| djszapiN9 | cal != loc, right ? | 21:43 |
| Sput | it's part of localization | 21:43 |
| Sput | so is unicode support, I've heard talk about switching to icu instead of the homebrew solution | 21:43 |
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| Sput | then there's thiago's changes to QUrl, which will allow to get rid of KUrl probably | 21:44 |
| Sput | those also broke binary compat :) | 21:44 |
| djszapi | except that it is not done by Thiago | 21:44 |
| djszapi | back to the calendar, that is a brand new addition | 21:44 |
| djszapi | without braking anything | 21:44 |
| Sput | so why did he write numerous blogs about QUrl? | 21:44 |
| djszapi | so as far I see, there is no compatibility break | 21:45 |
| djszapi | Sput: he did implement almost nothing | 21:45 |
| djszapi | actually, I would prefer more releases of Qt | 21:45 |
| djszapi | and not this crazily rarely. | 21:45 |
| Sput | I would prefer to clean up everything and make sure that we don't have to break binary compat in a year first | 21:45 |
| Sput | afterwards, release often | 21:45 |
| djszapi | but we do not break. | 21:45 |
| djszapi | I do not understand where you get that. | 21:46 |
| Sput | yes, yes, we do | 21:46 |
| djszapi | what is not ready, will not be released. | 21:46 |
| Sput | believe me, I'm working with that stuff :) | 21:46 |
| djszapi | that is the whole concept behind qt5 | 21:46 |
| djszapi | there are many separates module | 21:46 |
| ieatlint | thiago said as recently at 2 weeks ago that he can't contribute to qt and hasn't since july due to licencing issues at intel | 21:46 |
| djszapi | and only the releasable stuff is released. | 21:46 |
| ieatlint | so i doubt he's contributed qurl changes recently :P | 21:46 |
| Sput | interesting, he did blog tons about it | 21:46 |
| djszapi | dfaure did most of the work | 21:46 |
| djszapi | blog != implementing stuff | 21:46 |
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| Sput | in any case, the modules don't help if qtbase changes internally and API-wise | 21:47 |
| djszapi | so he did not change actually anything | 21:47 |
| Sput | we're still moving stuff around too | 21:47 |
| djszapi | and the point is qt, what I think you miss, they do not release everything in a brand new version | 21:47 |
| Sput | e.g. the whole connectivity stuff that has been merged from Qt Mobility into Qt5 | 21:47 |
| djszapi | they will release the stuff which is releasable | 21:47 |
| djszapi | so this breaking stuff is not even a problem | 21:47 |
| djszapi | since what is not stable, it is not released | 21:47 |
| djszapi | so you can release anytime | 21:47 |
| djszapi | only the stable stuff is released. | 21:47 |
| djszapi | and the role of the module maintainers is to make sure the master head version is always in a release state | 21:48 |
| Sput | yes. but keeping binary compat is hard. you can't do a lot of changes you would like to do, that was an annoyance during the lifetime of qt4, and it's important now to make sure that everything that changes existing stuff is done before the first qt5 release | 21:48 |
| djszapi | so not stable stuff should not even get to master, but separate feature branches | 21:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ieatlint, that's special. | 21:49 |
| Sput | from experience I know that even qtbase regularly breaks binary compat at the moment | 21:49 |
| Sput | because they move stuff around or remove obsolete stuff or change APIs and ABIs | 21:49 |
| djszapi | but they do not say they are in a releasable state | 21:49 |
| Sput | yep | 21:49 |
| djszapi | so qtbase would not be released. | 21:49 |
| djszapi | so I do not understand the problem | 21:49 |
| djszapi | release cannot be this way flaky. | 21:49 |
| Sput | all I'm saying is, it would've been impossible to release in September | 21:49 |
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| Sput | and it's probably better if it isn't done in January | 21:49 |
| Sput | the people working on Qt5 should get the time they need to have a proper foundation | 21:50 |
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| djszapi | if there is anything to release, I do not mind the frequent release. Actually the opposite. | 21:50 |
| Sput | yes. that's why I said, they should take their time until an initial release, after which you can release frequently | 21:51 |
| djszapi | I would like to see more qt releases, and I bet that is their plan as well | 21:51 |
| Sput | but they have to make sure that before the very first public release, there are no changes needed that break binary compat afterwards | 21:51 |
| djszapi | well, qtbase is not the only one | 21:51 |
| djszapi | qtwebkit and other stuff improved a lot in the meantime | 21:51 |
| djszapi | so I do not think there would be nothing to release. | 21:51 |
| Sput | qtwebkit has separate releases anyway | 21:51 |
| Sput | but that has nothing to do with qt5 | 21:52 |
| djszapi | "qtwebkit and other stuff". | 21:52 |
| djszapi | note, the /other/. | 21:52 |
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| Sput | you can't release qtnetwork5 before having qtbase5 :) | 21:52 |
| djszapi | why not ? | 21:52 |
| Sput | because it depends on qtbase? | 21:52 |
| djszapi | it is only an internal implementation details, what it uses internally. | 21:52 |
| djszapi | if the /API/ is stable | 21:52 |
| w00t | not necessarily | 21:52 |
| djszapi | you can release. | 21:52 |
| w00t | it isn't | 21:52 |
| Sput | "here's your stable qtnetwork, sorry you can't use it, there's no qtbase to go with it" | 21:52 |
| w00t | _some_ API has changed | 21:53 |
| Sput | no, if the /ABI/ is stable you can release | 21:53 |
| Sput | because there is no more ABI changing afterwards. | 21:53 |
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| djszapi | Sput: why, I do not understand | 21:54 |
| djszapi | there is an update with a new qtnetwork binary for instance, or whatever binary | 21:54 |
| Sput | because there is this ABI compat guarantee | 21:54 |
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| djszapi | you ship that and done | 21:54 |
| djszapi | since the API is the same. | 21:54 |
| Sput | you know about binary compat? | 21:54 |
| djszapi | and imho, recompiling is the purpose of qt5 anyway | 21:55 |
| djszapi | so they do not guarantee that you will not recompile your app | 21:55 |
| Sput | yes, between 4 and 5. | 21:55 |
| * DocScrutinizer sighs about weird sparse conversation on his IRC screen | 21:55 | |
| djszapi | they only say that you do not need to rewrite your app like qt3 -> qt4 | 21:55 |
| Sput | but they do guarantee between 5.0 and 5.x | 21:55 |
| Sput | forever | 21:55 |
| w00t | DocScrutinizer: at least you stay sane that way | 21:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 21:55 |
| Sput | and that's why I tell you that they need to make sure that the 5.0 release has the perfect ABI | 21:56 |
| djszapi | Sput: yes, and for that you need a stable API | 21:56 |
| djszapi | not change the argument of QCheckBox and some other random examples. | 21:56 |
| Sput | well yes. but that's the smaller problem :) | 21:56 |
| djszapi | I do not understand why | 21:57 |
| djszapi | if I provide you an API, and give you a new shared library with different internals | 21:57 |
| Sput | http://techbase.kde.org/Policies/Binary_Compatibility_Issues_With_C++ <-- look at this list of stuff you cannot do anymore once Qt5 has been feature-frozen | 21:57 |
| djszapi | you can recompile and and go | 21:57 |
| djszapi | I know that stuff :) | 21:57 |
| Sput | so why do you ask? | 21:57 |
| djszapi | ask what ? | 21:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sput: that's age old commandment: Though SHALT NEVER break ABI compatibility of a lib! If you do you'll have to pop the major number, so this will be qt6 then | 21:58 |
| Sput | DocScrutinizer: exactly. and Qt guarantees no ABI breaks after the feature freeze | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | Thou* | 21:58 |
| Sput | which means we need to make sure that by the time of the feature freeze, Qt5 is in a state that we don't have to break the ABI ever again during its lifetime | 21:58 |
| Sput | not so hard to grasp really | 21:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | wait, I got a semi-decent somewhat related link for you | 21:59 |
| djszapi | Sput: I am not getting what you mean. | 22:00 |
| Sput | djszapi: I'm noticing, but I don't think I am getting what you don't understand :) | 22:00 |
| djszapi | I think I now understand. | 22:01 |
| Sput | I'm saying "I'm glad they're taking their time with Qt5, so they can get everything cleaned up and in order until they feature freeze sometime next year", you're saying "they should release earlier and more often" | 22:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | Sput: >>3.6. Incompatible Libraries<< http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Program-Library-HOWTO/shared-libraries.html | 22:01 |
| Sput | DocScrutinizer: I know that stuff :) | 22:01 |
| djszapi | Sput: no, I did not say that | 22:02 |
| w00t | Sput: are you working on qt5 things, btw? wondering if i've seen you around by another name and just not connected the two :) | 22:02 |
| djszapi | I said that, if it is releasable they should release often | 22:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>Given this lengthy list, developers of C++ libraries in particular must plan for more than occasional updates that break binary compatibility. Fortunately, on Unix-like systems (including Linux) you can have multiple versions of a library loaded at the same time, so while there is some disk space loss, users can still run ``old'' programs needing old libraries.<< | 22:02 |
| Sput | yes. after the initial release, they should. and they will. | 22:02 |
| djszapi | but I think what I missed above is that qtbase is still heavily changing | 22:02 |
| Sput | yep, it is | 22:02 |
| djszapi | I did not know this. Actually, I thought the opposite | 22:02 |
| Sput | (so are many of the other core modules) | 22:02 |
| djszapi | I thought the core is pretty stable by now | 22:03 |
| djszapi | otherwise it is utterly hard to change all the modules all the time | 22:03 |
| djszapi | there is a tiny change. | 22:03 |
| Sput | it is stable to run it, so you can build apps against it and they're stable, but the API and ABI are still in flux | 22:03 |
| djszapi | that is what basically happened with meegotouch as well | 22:03 |
| Sput | and there's things like header renaming going on | 22:03 |
| Sput | or classes moving from one module into the other | 22:04 |
| djszapi | I am kinda worried if the base is still rapidly changing, honestly... | 22:04 |
| djszapi | then it is probably not done by June either | 22:04 |
| Sput | well, it's in a state where it's stable enough to work against it, but not in a state where you could risk freezing the API and ABI | 22:04 |
| djszapi | since once it settles done, all the modules around it can start implementing the "stable" version. | 22:04 |
| Sput | yep | 22:05 |
| djszapi | and they will also have many experiments. | 22:05 |
| Sput | the KDE Frameworks work is important, because they're noticing things that need to change in Qt5, or even move into Qt5 from KDE | 22:05 |
| Sput | and right now, they can still trigger such changes in the lib | 22:05 |
| djszapi | yes, I know. I was there half a year ago in Switzerland :) | 22:06 |
| djszapi | we were discussing what to do with KDE and Qt5 :) | 22:06 |
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| djszapi | but apart from very few classes, they are pure broad additions. | 22:06 |
| djszapi | and the reason is why the "previous" localization system remains is sort of obvious: too many projects depending on that, and the KDE is vastly different. | 22:07 |
| djszapi | and then there are other problems, like the kde guys did not feel the sake to rewrite the stuff for fun from leisure time, when it is now working nicely. | 22:07 |
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| djszapi | and imho quite a few times of those cases, it is more work to get a working code qt'ified than doing the "actual" work. | 22:09 |
| Venemo | hey | 22:10 |
| djszapi | Sput: and I am happy to see qmake is not a requirement in qt5 | 22:10 |
| djszapi | I am really happy about that. | 22:10 |
| Sput | huh? | 22:10 |
| Sput | there have been no changes to the build system | 22:11 |
| Sput | Qt5 is still using qmake, though of course you're still free to use cmake instead if once they add qt5 support to it | 22:11 |
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| Sput | haven't heard much about the "new build system for Qt" they've been talking about a couple years ago | 22:12 |
| djszapi | not a requirement != it must be dropped. | 22:12 |
| Venemo | wut's wrong with qmake? it's ideal for simpletons like me. | 22:13 |
| Sput | well, it's the same as in qt4 | 22:13 |
| djszapi | Venemo: please read Thiago's mail about that point and probably others expressed it many times as well | 22:13 |
| djszapi | Sput: not really | 22:13 |
| CissWit | Still no upgrade available for me when i try using a WiFi connection. How can i upgrade to PR 1.1 ? [backlog hint: 18:52:52 (UTC+0100)] | 22:13 |
| djszapi | Sput: qt4 was pure cmake | 22:13 |
| djszapi | qmake* | 22:13 |
| Sput | Venemo: yeah, it's ideal until you need to do really advanced stuff like depending on an external library | 22:14 |
| djszapi | Sput: and kde developers do not feel ike refactoring a working build syste mfor fun | 22:14 |
| Venemo | Sput, um, worksforme? | 22:14 |
| Sput | djszapi: I haven't noticed any changes in qt5 compared to qt4 in that regard | 22:14 |
| Sput | you can still use either build system as long as it supports qt | 22:14 |
| Sput | and qt is still using qmake for itself | 22:14 |
| Sput | no changes :) | 22:14 |
| djszapi | Sput: show me a cmake or other build system based module in qt4 | 22:14 |
| Venemo | in any case, I don't say you guys can't use anything else, but please don't take qmake away from me :) | 22:14 |
| Sput | djszapi: you mean, for Qt modules? | 22:15 |
| Sput | no idea how those work | 22:15 |
| Sput | qt4 wasn't modular | 22:15 |
| djszapi | they used qmake | 22:15 |
| djszapi | main qmake pro file in the project root, and many subfolders. | 22:15 |
| djszapi | so it was not quasi possible to use anything else | 22:15 |
| Sput | that's how my qt5 checkout looks too :) | 22:15 |
| djszapi | until my module gets merged :) | 22:16 |
| Sput | only that the subfolders now come from their own repos and can be built individually | 22:16 |
| Sput | which warms the heart of an old gentoo fart like me | 22:16 |
| Sput | what's your module? | 22:16 |
| djszapi | and this was not the case with qt4 | 22:16 |
| djszapi | so it is a really huge improvement | 22:16 |
| Sput | well yeah, the modularity thingy is a huge improvement | 22:17 |
| Venemo | Qt 5's QML scene graph is a really huge improvement too :) | 22:17 |
| Sput | I didn't know that you meant that with your qmake comment :) | 22:17 |
| djszapi | modularizing + policy decision | 22:17 |
| Sput | it's actually one of the major reasons for Qt5 | 22:17 |
| djszapi | Sput: I mean that what I said, it is not fun to work with qmake for many people and projects. | 22:18 |
| Sput | yeah, we all know that :) | 22:18 |
| Sput | nobody likes qmake | 22:18 |
| djszapi | that is an exaggeration though :) | 22:18 |
| djszapi | read ossi and markus' comments :P | 22:18 |
| Venemo | Sput, I do | 22:18 |
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| djszapi | Sput: do not forget that either, qmake does not have a ctest, cdash-like service in playground | 22:20 |
| djszapi | which makes the quality pretty much worse. | 22:20 |
| djszapi | so I cannot even choose qmake technically. | 22:20 |
| Sput | yep | 22:20 |
| Sput | you don't need to convince me about qmake being bad :) | 22:20 |
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| Sput | ossi doesn't like qmake either btw. | 22:21 |
| djszapi | and it is not just inconvenient for certain users, but have you ever took a look at its code ? :P | 22:21 |
| Sput | he just also doesn't like cmake | 22:21 |
| djszapi | ossi does not like anything :P | 22:21 |
| Sput | have you ever had a look at qmake-for-qtopia's code? | 22:21 |
| Sput | that was a giant perl script | 22:21 |
| djszapi | because after thiago said its codebase is even worse than using it from user pov | 22:21 |
| Sput | like, giant | 22:21 |
| djszapi | wel, I took a look at it, and ... yeah, politely: it is not professional enough :) | 22:22 |
| Sput | qmake's code base is about as bad as its documentation | 22:22 |
| Venemo | :D | 22:22 |
| djszapi | :))) | 22:22 |
| Sput | there's a reason noone has touched the code in years | 22:22 |
| djszapi | balance is important ;) | 22:22 |
| Venemo | :D | 22:22 |
| Sput | we've had qmake 2.01 since, what, qt2? | 22:22 |
| Sput | oooooh, we're at 2.01a now! | 22:23 |
| djszapi | Sput: anyway, I apologize I did not understand the things above. | 22:23 |
| Sput | djszapi: no need to apologize :) | 22:23 |
| djszapi | and my module is qtopenal/qt3DAudio | 22:23 |
| djszapi | but probably an OCS standard implementation might end up there. | 22:23 |
| djszapi | if OCS 2.0 is out for working on the implementation. | 22:24 |
| djszapi | Sput: also, legal checks take a very looooong procedure inside Nokia | 22:24 |
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| djszapi | Sput: and I think it also means that the feature phone is not really released before qt5 either | 22:29 |
| djszapi | so that schedule is also postponed since that ;) | 22:29 |
| djszapi | I think they wanted to get Qt5 out that early becuase of this feature phone | 22:30 |
| djszapi | until that* | 22:30 |
| Venemo | they wanted the QML scenegraph to be in that "feature phone", methinks. which is a good decision. | 22:31 |
| Sput | well, I can't comment on that | 22:31 |
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| djszapi | Venemo: I think that was the idea. To get a phone, get rid of meegotouch, and use this qml2 ui development practicality. | 22:31 |
| Venemo | djszapi, yeah, it'd make sense. | 22:32 |
| Venemo | djszapi, it's a pity that they were this late with the whole QML thing. | 22:32 |
| djszapi | Venemo: it is not a simple task. As far as I know many people worked on that even from the qtcreator team (Germany) | 22:33 |
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| Venemo | djszapi, compared to XAML, they came out with QML rather late. | 22:34 |
| djszapi | I think they came out in a very pre-mature state when they should not have :P | 22:34 |
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| Venemo | djszapi, dat's true too, but at least it received some battle-testing :) | 22:35 |
| Venemo | djszapi, but really, it's becoming a lot better. | 22:36 |
| djszapi | yeah, they do not even care about merge requests in components for instance :P | 22:36 |
| Venemo | djszapi, components != QML itself. | 22:36 |
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| djszapi | is it any good to use pure qml nowadays ? | 22:37 |
| Venemo | djszapi, it definitely has its uses. | 22:37 |
| djszapi | also, speaking of which I still have I think a MR against qml2 too | 22:37 |
| djszapi | which uses ? | 22:37 |
| Venemo | djszapi, if you want to remain truly cross-platform | 22:37 |
| Venemo | djszapi, for example my latest app does not use qt-components at all. | 22:37 |
| Corsac | ZogG_laptop: oh, for me they were only reset at boot | 22:38 |
| Corsac | so it's not really a fix | 22:38 |
| Venemo | djszapi, and it is A LOT FASTER... so I think qt-components are becoming bloated. | 22:38 |
| djszapi | Venemo: why not spend 1-2 days with rewriting the Ui for the given platform in order to look cool ? | 22:38 |
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| Venemo | djszapi, I wanted to do that | 22:38 |
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| Venemo | djszapi, but there is a bug in components (at least in the harmattan components) which prevents my own declarative item from working properly. | 22:39 |
| Venemo | djszapi, namely, if I add my own declarativeitem to a Window {} or any child of a Window {}, its children randomly stop receiving ANY events. | 22:40 |
| djszapi | cannot you fix it around instead of dropping the native look'n feel ? | 22:41 |
| Venemo | I may be able to fix it with a lot of ugly workarounds, but there is no proper fix | 22:42 |
| Venemo | in fact, that's true for all of Qt | 22:42 |
| Venemo | Qt is becoming a heap of bugs when you start to do something with it that they didn't think you will be doing. | 22:43 |
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| djszapi | Venemo: maybe.. you can write StarCraft3 in Qml2 :)) | 22:44 |
| Venemo | djszapi, in any case, after I noticed how faster is my hand-written QML compared to my other stuff that uses qt-components, I decided to just use it this way :) | 22:44 |
| Venemo | djszapi, I only needed to reinvent a couple of simple wheels, so it's not really a big deal. | 22:45 |
| djszapi | and that is exactly my point when I say, some people still tend to use MTF. | 22:45 |
| Venemo | well, after I made my own Button and Dialog "components", it wasn't a trouble at all. | 22:46 |
| Venemo | and interestingly, this app even loads faster than any MTF apps, even the built-in ones. | 22:46 |
| djszapi | qml has launch speed issues in general. | 22:48 |
| djszapi | They have been continously investigating about that. | 22:48 |
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| djszapi | ieatlint: btw, what licensing issues at Intel for thiago ? | 22:50 |
| djszapi | and in general for a third-party company employee. | 22:51 |
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| Sput | well, contributions to Qt require the contributor's agreement | 22:52 |
| Sput | Intel might not want to allow that maybe? | 22:53 |
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| Sput | though if thiago doesn't work on Qt, I wonder what he does now | 22:53 |
| djszapi | he maintains qt | 22:53 |
| djszapi | and he designs the API and other stuff | 22:53 |
| Sput | it's not like there's a lot of Qt stuff left at Intel | 22:53 |
| Sput | hm | 22:53 |
| djszapi | working in a project is not just the coding, actually that is the less part :P | 22:53 |
| gabriel9 | hai | 22:54 |
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| djszapi | so is it an Intel/Thiago/Nokia specific issue ? | 22:54 |
| gabriel9 | did anyone tried to speed up boot time on N9? | 22:55 |
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| SpeedEvil | Speeding up boot time is generally not possible without disabling the security platform, as it'd require lots of mods it won't permit. | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | There may be some opportunity, but it's going to be limited. | 22:57 |
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| Aranel | <qml question>how can I limit line count on TextArea? It allows exceeding the height of itself on default</qml question> | 22:57 |
| djszapi | yes, aegis validator takes a time | 22:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I was meaning other than the time taken by aegis, though I suppose that's non-zero too. | 22:58 |
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| djszapi | aegis validator takes most of the time in boot | 23:00 |
| djszapi | we used to have boot time under 2s. | 23:01 |
| Venemo | srsly? | 23:01 |
| djszapi | yup | 23:01 |
| djszapi | in the beginning :) | 23:02 |
| Venemo | :D | 23:02 |
| djszapi | and we also had much more than this when the aegis validator was not optimized. | 23:03 |
| deram | it's not hard to get 2sec boot time with optimized bootloaders and limiting started apps just to login on serial | 23:03 |
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| djszapi | well, even the blackfin qt board booted in 1 sec with full Ui (Qt) | 23:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | mgedmin: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1136808#post1136808 =) | 23:04 |
| ZogG_laptop | X-Fade: ping | 23:04 |
| djszapi | Venemo: this is a classical: http://www.embedded-bits.co.uk/2011/1-second-linux-boot-to-qt/ | 23:06 |
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| gabriel9 | djszapi: you worked on N9? | 23:08 |
| gabriel9 | for Nokia? | 23:09 |
| djszapi | no, I still work =) | 23:09 |
| gabriel9 | :) | 23:09 |
| gabriel9 | i'm honored, and great job for making this great phone | 23:09 |
| djszapi | you probably do not know I am from the Platform Security team, so you must dislike our job :P | 23:10 |
| gabriel9 | :D no no | 23:11 |
| gabriel9 | every job is ok | 23:11 |
| gabriel9 | if the product is great | 23:11 |
| * phako does :-P all the hairs I've pulled due to that | 23:11 | |
| gabriel9 | so you are to blame for slow boot :D | 23:11 |
| djszapi | well, aegis validator is not my work | 23:12 |
| djszapi | I just happen to know its design principles and few details, but every bit. | 23:12 |
| djszapi | but not* | 23:12 |
| gabriel9 | well i don't know what is aegis | 23:13 |
| gabriel9 | i am web developer, ans know some basic stuff from qt c++ and GNU/Linux | 23:13 |
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| ZogG_laptop | damn how do i build with obs. something wrong | 23:19 |
| djszapi | could you please be more precise than "something wrong" ? | 23:19 |
| gabriel9 | There is always something wrong in this kind of job :) | 23:20 |
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| ZogG_laptop | djszapi: i tried step by step like it said in wiki | 23:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | and i got error about build step | 23:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | Enter Command arguments: -t harmattan-platform-api dpkg-buildpackage -sa -S -uc -us -Imoc -Iobj -Ircc -Iui -I.svn -I*.deb -I*.changes -Iqtc_packaging -IMakefile -I*.pro.user -I<packagename> | 23:24 |
| djszapi | what the heck is this line ? | 23:25 |
| djszapi | it seems long enough doesn't it :) | 23:26 |
| gabriel9 | becouse of that i like shiny buttons :) | 23:28 |
| gabriel9 | click and it does all for you | 23:28 |
| Venemo | ZogG_laptop, da fukk is dat? | 23:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | http://wiki.meego.com/Getting_started_with_OBS | 23:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | ^ | 23:29 |
| djszapi | phantastic qtcreator... | 23:29 |
| Venemo | lol | 23:30 |
| gabriel9 | i love my qt creator | 23:30 |
| gabriel9 | but for some reason i get black screen when i try this example: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-simpletutorial.html | 23:31 |
| djszapi | even for the simple tutorial ? :)))) | 23:32 |
| gabriel9 | i copied all code | 23:33 |
| gabriel9 | btw, do you use debugger in qtcreator for qml and JS? | 23:33 |
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| Aranel | Can someone give me a document link to use harmattan qt components? I searched for it but couldn't find anything else than some tutorials and Symbian documentation. | 23:37 |
| gabriel9 | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/ | 23:38 |
| gabriel9 | all is her | 23:38 |
| gabriel9 | e | 23:38 |
| djszapi | Aranel: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components.html?tab=1 | 23:38 |
| Aranel | Thank you ^^ Spent a long a time on doc.qt.nokia.com to find them :) | 23:39 |
| gabriel9 | no problem i'm also a begginer :) | 23:40 |
| ninnnu | How big is the performance/power hit if I use QML instead of Qt/C++? | 23:40 |
| ieatlint | 42 | 23:41 |
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| xmlich02 | is there way to set charset for harmattan target? It seems that harmattan target default is latin1 and desktop utf-8 (see http://pcmlich.fit.vutbr.cz/tmp/w/charset.png ) | 23:44 |
| gabriel9 | I'm asking this you becouse you are a strangers and live different lifes then we here. Would you and for what you go to war? | 23:45 |
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| gabriel9 | war is not good, the programming is far more fun and usefull. But still where is the limit? | 23:46 |
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| gabriel9 | i get this fat output when trying to debug: http://pastebin.com/TEbySywK | 23:59 |
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