IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-12-07

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gabriel9i can't put toolbar on the top00:14
GeneralAntillesOK, why does this damn thing arbitrarily decide not to use WiFi networks automatically?00:19
gabriel9did you turn on background connection?00:20
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M4rtinKalso, the networks might need to be moved to the "connect automatically" group in settings00:22
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GeneralAntillesYeah, I keep switching it on00:26
GeneralAntillesand it keeps turning it off.00:26
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TronicGeneralAntilles: I think that happens when in powersave mode.00:34
TronicThen it won't keep itself connected unless there is a reason.00:34
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gabriel9Does anyone know where can i found projects from here:
gabriel9they are not aviable anymore01:19
djszapithey /are/ available01:21
djszapithere is just some maintenance ongoing, but it does not mean they deleted the projects for fun01:21
M4rtinKmaybe they are somewhere on Gitorious ?01:29
M4rtinKat least the examples gallery lives there01:29
gabriel9can anyone tell me what is this element for header bar:
djszapiI know it in MTF, but not in components..01:37
djszapinot sure it is exposed, as many other important things are not exposed either.01:37
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djszapiMeego Touch Framework01:43
djszapithe whole operation under QML.01:43
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gabriel9i don't understand why are they keap it a secret01:46
djszapiwhat do you mean ?01:47
gabriel9it is not exposed01:48
gabriel9so it is a secret01:48
djszapibecause components and qml in general are pre-mature stuff01:49
gabriel9so i shuold wait or get source code of the File Manager01:50
gabriel9it's late, good night01:51
rzrthere are some opensource filemanagers to look at01:51
M4rtinKeven filebox has not source yet01:52
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M4rtinKat least I didn't find it anywhere01:53
rzrcuteexplorer is opensource see my test01:54
djszapiwhat should we see in cuteexplorer ?01:54
djszapiI do not see the sheet header...01:55
djszapithere is only a custom lineedit, that is01:55
rzrhint press play button01:56
rzrbottom left01:56
djszapidid, but I did not see sheet header01:56
rzrwhat is a sheet header ?01:57
mgedminI peeked at the builtin apps and decided the header was just part of the background png01:57
rzrah that one you talked before i joined in01:57
djszapiwhat gabriel9 actually asked01:57
mgedminI tried to emulate it with a few rectangles and text01:57
djszapithis cuteexplorer has nothing to do with it01:57
djszapimgedmin: not really01:58
djszapithere is a MTF element for this directly.01:58
mgedminthat must be nice for those using MTF...01:58
djszapiit is just the mere fact, components is pre-mature about this, too01:58
mgedminanyway here's my half-baked attempt at a QML header bar:
djszapiyes, it is hackable, but it is not nice01:59
djszapiimho, it would be nice if someone can send a patch against qt components even if they more or less refuse reviewing merge requests.02:00
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phunguydoes the n9 wifi-hotspot fix need to be applied against pr 1.1?02:04
M4rtinKalso, they might do something about the menu "pop up" having fixed size in landscape02:05
M4rtinKeven if you just add a single vertical slider, it stile covers about 40% of the screen02:05
phunguyM4rtinK> are you talking about how we can't use the qt components in qt creator for harmattan like we can for symbian?02:12
M4rtinKI mean that when you call open() on a Menu instance02:13
djszapiM4rtinK: what are you talking about ?02:13
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djszapiwhat menu instance and 40 ? I am not getting it02:14
M4rtinKdjszapi: just an example of another quirk in components02:14
djszapiquirk in what ?02:14
djszapiI do not experience any 40%02:15
M4rtinKlets have a Menu:
M4rtinKin portrait, it respects the size of its content02:15
djszapias for me: joikuspot: pretty much 20% maximum02:16
djszapiand that is fair enough. Nothing to fix on that02:16
M4rtinKin landscape it has a fixed width02:16
djszapiit is the same respect for me in both orientations02:16
djszapithe height of the cell is according to the text02:17
djszapiI see no problems.02:17
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rafael2kpeople, I installed mplayer package and using x11 driver any video played fine, but after some seconds the screen goes black. if I tap any key, screen comes back02:52
rafael2khow to disable screen blanking?02:53
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z720anyidea this err "onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0100, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x0"03:38
z720could it be bad memory?03:38
SpeedEvilCorrectable errors are normal03:39
SpeedEvilAbd expected03:40
z720got it,now at least not that worry03:42
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ptlI had an N900 and I am considering buying the N9. Does it offer a similar experience? I've read that it doesn't have GTK+, does it mean it does not run GTK+ applications at all?04:32
ieatlintthe UI is completely different, and no, gtk applications will not work on a stock n904:42
ptlon a 'stock' n9; but is it possible to apt-get it, or something?04:50
ptlmy devices do not stay in 'stock' state for too long :D04:50
hiemanshuptl: getting GTK+ working on the N9 would be like putting in a V6 engine in a V8 car, not that it wont work, It will be too of much work and the end result isnt that satisfying :P05:18
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ptlhiemanshu: but there are good GNU/Linux GTK+ applications and that's the point of me wanting that.05:24
ptlhiemanshu: is it 'too much work' or is it an apt-get away?05:25
yipdwptl: gtk+ isn't in any repositories shipped on the device; I'm not sure how much effort would be required to import appropriate packages from another source05:30
yipdw(haven't tried)05:30
ptlso in practice it's not really there. I thought most programs written for the N900 would be ported to the N9, so I'm mistaken.05:34
ptlSo, is it worth it since I cannot run my old GNU/Linux favorites? At least packages like ImageMagick work?05:34
yipdwptl: well, in that one specific case:05:41
yipdw$ apt-cache search imagemagick05:41
yipdwimagemagick - image manipulation programs05:41
yipdwif you'd like, I can upload an apt-cache dump of what's on my N9, which is pretty much in its stock configuration (+ developer mode enabled)05:42
hiemanshuptl: well you'll have to compile, install gtk+, writing the theming of it so it has a native look, etc, its too much of work really05:43
yipdwamusingly, emacs22-gtk is in the package list, but it's broken05:44
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ptlyipdw: sorry, I was away, yes, I'd like that very much to have an idea :-)06:10
ptlvim is?06:11
ptl2399 packages... seems low :-/06:15
yipdwthere's not much there, yeah06:16
ptlthere's no vim???06:23
ptlsysvinit looks like a regression, the N900 used upstart06:24
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Tronicptl: Think of N9 as a smart phone where N900 was a pocket-sized laptop with a phone.06:40
TronicThere still are too many limitations with N9 :/06:40
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yipdwptl: the Mer project may be up your alley06:43
Erikaif n9 had a keyboard it could easily be as powerful as n90006:52
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hiemanshuErika: not really, platsec screws a lot of things up06:54
Erikawhat's that06:54
hiemanshuplatform security, Aegis in this matter07:04
hiemanshuIt stops you from a lot of things07:13
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ieatlintyeah, the n950s don't exactly change the whole dynamic of the OS just because they have a keyboard07:20
ieatlinti like the n9, and i like the new OS, but it targets a different demographic vs the n90007:20
ieatlintthe n900 was much more of a hacker phone... the n9 was designed to be a consumer device07:21
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djszapiErika: do not listen to hiemanshu. Platform Security has nothing to do with policies. He cannot realize it, sadly.07:42
Erikait's a shame they couldn't release an updated n900 with an usb port that doesnt break loose and some updated specs07:42
dm8tbrdjszapi: please cut this condescending tone out in here, thanks.07:43
djszapiErika: too much expectation. These projects are not tiny07:43
Erikai know :P07:44
Erikait's all marketing, as far as i know07:44
Erikaprobably why they dropped meego in favor of windows07:44
Erikamore money to be made07:44
djszapiand sadly, we investigated MeeGo07:44
djszapimuch more than Intel, and that was a big mistake.07:45
dm8tbrwell, meego was not a bad concept, it was the politics that made it a problem. then it was cut off before gains could materialize07:46
djszapiplease do not misinterpret me, thanks.07:46
Erikameego would make a fine phone os (vs maemo being a mobile computer os)07:46
djszapiI have never sad MeeGo is a bad concept.07:46
hiemanshuoh wait djszapi started off again?07:46
dm8tbrdjszapi: please do not misinterpret my comments. ktx07:46
djszapiErika: platform security does not decide policies. It is just a tool/platform (as its name says). Restrict policies are decided elsewhere. Just for making sure, many people not understanding this simple principle will not bypass you. ;)07:48
Erikai understand07:48
hiemanshuaegis stops you from doing alot of things you could do with the N900, PERIOD!07:48
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* DocScrutinizer fetches popcorn and watches the silence07:55
jonniN9 Harmattan  has aegis as tool to protect binary integrity on consumer OS, N9 Nemo is not consumer OS and doesnt have aegis, and you can do what ever you like to, just like in N900. And you can still flash your custom kernel to make harmattan a hacker device, but you just cant submit apps that use too much credentials to ovi store.07:58
djszapiand you lose the warranty.08:01
djszapiwhich is the most dangerous imo about this expensive device.08:01
jonniso in reality aegis is not stopping you to do anything, its the ovi store source-policy which limits what credentials can be applied to your applications, if you want to massmarket your app.08:02
DocScrutinizerwhile the selection of incriminated credentials is obviously rather random08:02
DocScrutinizerand the first 2 or 3 implementations of *aegis* (incl the core policies) were rather buggy and allowed a hacker to do whatever they want, while throwing sticks at legs of nice developers and users08:04
dm8tbron a much productive note: does anyone know if I can download compiled sowatch packages anywhere?08:04
DocScrutinizerdunno if next (p)aegis version will be better08:04
dm8tbrI only found one from september08:04
pabs3personally I want some platsec on my laptop, some app isolation would be nice since there are so many security issues these days08:07
DocScrutinizerpabs3: get selinux08:09
DocScrutinizeror apparmor08:09
DocScrutinizerthose are made to serve your demand - aegis *not*08:10
pabs3I didn't think that would allow say, preventing Firefox from looking at my SSH keys08:10
Stskeepsit's 7am and we're discussing aegis? really?08:10
DocScrutinizerexactly that is what both are made for08:10
pabs3Stskeeps: its 2pm not 7am08:10
jonnijust run your firefox with different uid, problem solved :)08:10
DocScrutinizerdang, in an hour I'm learning about OSE08:11
DocScrutinizerso I have to do it now08:11
DocScrutinizerpabs3: for your problem even ACL might suffice08:11
djszapipabs3 defome "your SSH keys". root or user ?08:12
DocScrutinizerone thing's for sure: *aegis* doesn't help for the issue08:12
DocScrutinizertbh HARM has worse problems than just aegis:
DocScrutinizerit's just a me-too anridiotoid OS08:15
DocScrutinizeror maybe metoo-iOS08:16
DocScrutinizerHARM Ain't Real Meego08:16
djszapibecause if you run firefox as root, it cannot access to the user ssh key, and vica versa08:16
DocScrutinizerok, guys. have fun!08:18
MohammadAGThird N950 out for delivery!!!08:19
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: you mean it's actually arriving, having passed customs?08:22
DocScrutinizerwith his luck... I wasn't surprised it "fell off the truck" 100m before arriving at him - or just a package with a stone inside arrives08:24
MohammadAGSpeedEvil: Today yeah08:26
MohammadAGTook two weeks though08:28
MohammadAGThe first one took 2 days08:28
DocScrutinizerthey forgot which of both was the one with the explosives inside ;-D08:28
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w00tMohammadAG: what happened to the second? :-P08:40
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hiemanshuw00t: the customs department kept it with them :P08:47
w00twth, permanently? :)08:50
w00tnot that I can completely blame them!08:50
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hiemanshuwell until Nokia askes them for it08:50
hiemanshuor something like that08:50
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Piruinteresting. my N9 has been losing the phone part recently. cannot call or receive calls, sms or else. gprs is dead as well. .. until I either powercycle or hotplug the sim09:00
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djszapijonni: your devicelockd restart idea will not work09:17
djszapijust only if autolock is set off09:17
djszapiwhich is normally not the case09:17
jonnihmm, I have autolock 60 minutes, and restart works for me atleast09:18
jonnior you mean that only if autolock is set on?09:18
denismyes it will work for 60 minutes09:19
djszapijonni: it will not work if the autolock is off*09:19
djszapiand many people use the phone like that since they do not normally know or want to know the code. They would not like to bother with it basically.09:20
jonniah thats true, but it shouldnt work anyways, since there are cases that if autolock is off, then security code has not even been defined yet.09:20
djszapiand the devicelock credential deny is "almost" intentional09:21
djszapibecause of this reason.09:21
djszapias many people do not know their code, so they will be unable to unlock it.09:21
dm8tbrFor me the raison d'etre of such a button is anyway: lock now instead after timeout.09:21
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jonniI would be more worried if it would prompt for code before code has been even set.09:22
djszapiwhich is not the case.09:22
djszapi:) buy a phone, give it to me for a minute to take a look on it - and your phone will have unknown for you lock code, even a child is able to set up, just playing with the device. Any change by user to devicelock settings has to be confirmed by entering lock code09:23
djszapijust initial set up of lock code - does not require anything. and it is really a problem/bug. But it was an important 'business requirement' by somebody who is not working in Nokia anymore :) so such lesson will not be learn by them09:23
denismdjszapi: of course it is cool, but I really do not understand why do you quote me from our private p.m.o. discussion - publicly without saying to me that you will do so09:25
djszapiit was from Denis, yes09:26
djszapiI am sorry for the missing quotes09:26
djszapiI did not know this yesterday, and I would accept that if it is available.09:26
djszapisorry for not asking*09:28
djszapicouldn't a popup dialog happen if the autolock is off if someone tries to programatically do it ? From the devicelock side, just a syslog entry ? The programmer could make it visible in a popup or so ?09:33
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djszapiso this is this the relevant bug:
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MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: The second N950 still shows clearance delay, wonder if Nokia will ever get it back09:42
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dm8tbrJust a friendly reminder to all people here on the channel. Please do not expose/quote/discuss internal/NDA information on this channel. Thank You!09:55
Stskeepsand if anyone reveals obvious NDA'ed information, don't hesitate to report them to corporate security?09:56
ptlwhy not? let'em do that :P it's like reading spoilers for a miniseries09:56
ptlNDA is overrated anyway09:56
Stskeepsptl: even for open source developers it's tainted, let's say, if someone spilled copyrighted source code it wouldn't be usable09:56
yipdwactually, on that note, I do seriously wonder -- if MeeGo/Harmattan is truly considered dead by Nokia -- what the barriers to open-sourcing most of it are09:57
yipdwsome parts, like the Dolby Surround code, sure, I understand that that must remain closed09:57
Stskeepsyipdw: time, money, 3rd party stuff09:57
Stskeepsopen sourcing isn't cheap09:57
yipdwI know there's costs involved, but how bad are they09:57
dm8tbrin a huge corporate environment? imense09:58
pabs3I would hope the opposite, reveal more NDA stuff thanks09:58
MohammadAGVery I'd say09:58
w00tgetting lawyers to read over everything, and getting hackers to clean things up enough for a release at $x/hr, for thousands, hundreds of thousands of LOC? a lot09:58
Stskeepsyipdw: one of the good things about nokia open source is that they check everything through so what you get non-tainted OSS09:58
Stskeepsit costs, but so does a lawsuit if you used it and it happens to infringe on someone's patent09:59
Stskeepsor license conditions, etc09:59
dm8tbrother companies forget to remove the 'confidential' 'need permission to even look at' stuff from their headers09:59
dm8tbrnot to mention forgetting to properly add licensing info09:59
Stskeepsso, long story short: bloody expensive09:59
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yipdwwell, I was hoping for a response from some of the Nokians around here, but I guess that'll do10:01
* yipdw has open-sourced previously proprietary code before, didn't find it too hellish10:01
yipdwadmittedly, very different environment than Nokia10:02
Stskeepsi worked as distmaster and assisted doing this, so it's pretty accurate10:02
Stskeepssmaller companies are usually easier to do it, but a big company with patents to protect..10:02
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Stskeepsbut i do believe that different approaches than those are needed for a big company to be agile in open source10:04
Stskeepsit's methods that were invented in a world where git trees weren't common10:04
Stskeepsjust tarball distributions10:04
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djszapiN9do you know dm8tbr ?10:12
djszapiN9sorry, bad completion :p10:12
Stskeepshiemanshu: as in, oss were released in code drop formats, tarballs, not with git-like constant patching and merging, collaboration10:13
djszapiN9interesting, i was in a separate query tab, and it inserted in the main ha channel10:13
hiemanshuStskeeps: that was for djszapiN9 :P10:13
djszapiN9irc-chatter, weird10:14
Stskeepsarh, ok, i have him on ignore for the sanity of both of us, so nevermind10:14
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hiemanshuStskeeps: lol ok10:21
djszapiN9also, if i click on seaparate tabs, it inserts texts into the type field. It is also a regression, I think10:23
hiemanshuand I thought you didn't care about it since I was working on it10:24
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MohammadAGN950 delivered \o/11:02
MohammadAGI'm 200km away though11:02
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: haha, run to it!11:30
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*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hiemanshu11:43
*** hiemanshu changes topic to "A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stop on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : | | logs: |"11:44
*** hiemanshu changes topic to "A place for harmattan device and development discussions | Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member | Please stay on topic and no NDA stuff here | Developers : | | logs: |"11:45
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javispedrohonor thy nda!11:45
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rcgoh nda... we're not worthy...
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decibytehaha. i wish i wasn't too dumb to guess what's been revealed that shouldn't have been.12:08
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denismabout my message on (today  09:24:02 AM) denism - there was no any NDA violiation, but it was just a quote from a private channel which I did not expect12:16
denismif really I hope there will be more public information about devicelock available later, as it provides a lot of interesting dbus services (non-protected by aegis), like 'provisioning settings' - which might be useful for some other enterprise software (not only to Mail for Exchange on the device)12:19
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dm8tbrthanks for clarifying. still it doesn't hurt to remind people from time to time that this is a public channel :)12:19
jonnijust submitted my first N9 app to Ovi store, lets see what QA will say :)12:19
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javispedrofun read --
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javispedrosome of the problems she mentions also ring a bell, which is ... funny, one would guess they'd have more manpower.12:27
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javispedroand more influence on 3d driver's devs12:28
javispedrosome of the thinks she says are also lies (or at least, they are why-they-are-doing-this); she fails to mention EGL_CONTEXT_LOST at all for ex.12:29
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javispedrodo not read the comments unless you want to die laughing though.12:33
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alteregojonni: what's the app? :)12:46
jonnialterego: BabyLock12:50
alteregoWhat does it do?12:50
jonnidisables swipe on any application that you want to.12:51
djszapijonni: does it use the same thing you sent me when I asked about game screen locking ?12:52
jonnijust something that was requested in forums, ie for games that have forgotten to disable swipe, and your irritated when game swipes away accidentally, or if you want to give device to baby for playing drums app or whatever.12:52
jonnidjszapi: yes,'almost' the same thing :)12:53
djszapiI was referring to the API call you showed.12:53
alteregoHow do you get out of apps then if you disable swipe and there's no quit button?12:53
jonnialterego: short press powerbutton12:53
alteregoIs that already an OS feature?12:53
jonnire-enables swipe again12:54
alteregoOr something you've integrated?12:54
jonninope, its not an os feature :)12:54
alteregoOh, short press should lock :)12:54
jonniI've just integrated that together12:54
jonnibasicly it just re-enables swipe when you visit lockscreen12:54
jonnithat way it works for all apps12:55
jonnimanaged to increase my Airport record from 42 to 84 after I disabled swipe on it. was really irritating when screen swiped away when there was 10 planes in collision course.12:57
djszapiI guess it does not hurt my application where this feature is already available. So it is not toggle hopefully :)12:59
jonnishould not hurt, and anyways I only expect people to use it on apps that dont have that option built-in.13:03
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djszapiCan you lookf or patterns in the description of the applications whether or not there are already similar applications ?13:08
djszapiIt is sometimes to hard to figure it out from application names.13:09
djszapispeaking of which, does Ovi check the description for being decent ?13:09
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jonnidjszapi: using web browser in search allows you also to search description13:29
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djszapijonni: how about the ovi client ?13:38
jonnidjszapi: just checked actually ovi client search also searches the description13:39
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jonniweb is just easier to use since you see the descriptions in the list without opening each app seperately13:41
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cos^does anyone suffer from N950 asking PIN code randomly?14:09
cos^it might be related to poor cell reception as it happens often at home14:10
trxmost of the time, i have no cell reception at home14:14
trxstill, it never happened to me14:14
pabs3I don't think 'suffer' means what you think it means14:14
trxso i dont think its related to signal reception14:15
jreznikmaybe try different sim card14:23
decibyteis the sim inserted the same way as on n9?14:23
decibytevia that sliding thing at the top?14:24
jreznikdecibyte: no it's not14:26
jreznikand the mechanism is... so there's possibility that it's not hold there correctly and then it asks for pin once it's registered again14:27
hiemanshudecibyte: its slid in on the side, a full size sim14:28
hiemanshuwell technically mini-sim14:28
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decibyteit's just that both a friend a i had some problems with reception dropping and even sometimes having to reenter the pin. he put a couple of pieces of tape on the back of the sim, says it has improved for him. i did it just yesterday, too early to tell whether it has improved for me.14:29
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Aranel_N9How can I manually lock N9 (as in lock code)? I'm all ears for any hacks/tips. 'initctl restart' doesnt work for me. (command not found)14:52
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djszapiAranel_N9: can you paste the output?15:00
dm8tbrI'd try /sbin/initctl instead of just initctl15:01
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djszapiif /sbin is not in the path, there are bigger issues15:02
dm8tbrdjszapi: go file a show-stopper then, it isn't.15:04
djszapiAranel_N9: do you try it over ssh btw ?15:04
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djszapiAranel_N9: because it seems the terminal drops it for .. no idea why ..15:05
djszapibut if you will use it from your app, it should work since other apps also use it that way15:06
djszapiit should also work over ssh15:08
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Aranel_N9djszapi: okay /sbin/initctl works and restarted perfectly. But It didn't lock the screen.15:09
djszapiAranel_N9: do you use terminal ?15:10
djszapiI would not recommend that for development..15:10
Aranel_N9djszapi yes I did to try, why not?15:11
djszapibecause you have issues like this15:11
djszapiwhich does not happen over ssh if you have an access to a PC15:11
djszapiAranel_N9: you do not have the autolock off right ?15:12
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Aranel_N9djszapi I do :/ But It's why I am doing this, to lock screen manually without using autolock15:18
dm8tbrworks for me here15:18
dm8tbrAranel_N9: it will only work if you have devicelock timeout enabled in general15:18
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djszapiAranel_N9: it does not work if autolock is off as said previously.15:19
dm8tbrAranel_N9: just set the timeout to some very high value and then you can override it with this to lock instantly15:19
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dm8tbrAranel_N9: if you don't want to do this another approach might be a shortcut that opens the settings window with the device lock settings. dunno if that's possible15:20
djszapiAranel_N9: sadly, it does not work otherwise.15:20
Aranel_N9dm8tbr I cant set it higher than 60 mins.15:20
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djszapiAranel_N9: yes, that is true.15:21
Aranel_N9how about a script to set it to 60min, restart initctl and set it back to off? How can I set it to 60/off from xterm?15:22
dm8tbrI can see that some people would like such a constellation. Probably the closest is that shortcut I mentioned15:22
djszapiAranel_N9: If I am not mistaken you cannot. That is why I said cannot do much else sadly.15:24
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cos^decibyte: thanks, i'll try that. but it won't affect bad reception..15:26
Aranel_N9djszapi So It's not possible if I dont set autolock on?15:37
djszapirestart will not work as you expect, no.15:39
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Aranel_N9djszapi maybe an API or something like that? No hope? ._.15:41
djszapiAranel_N9: Ovi did not allow you to do that, nope.15:41
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MohammadAGWhat's this autolock bug everyone's talking about15:49
Aranel_N9djszapi okay then :/ Thank you for your help so far :)15:53
Aranel_N9MohammadAG I was trying to lock the N9 screen manually (as in lock code) but for some reason there is not any api for that.15:55
djszapithere is an API for that, but no available credentials.15:55
Aranel_N9djszapi would it be fixed in 1.2 maybe?15:56
djszapiI think it will be fixed never15:56
Aranel_N9djszapi why not?15:58
djszapiI cannot talk about the details.15:58
MohammadAGThere is an API15:59
MohammadAGYou Need mce::Devlock15:59
MohammadAGOr something like that15:59
MohammadAGYou can15:59
MohammadAGIt's because it allowed unlocking the device without a code on Fremantle15:59
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Aranel_N9djszapi oh ok :) so if Nokia doesnt allow us to do, they should implement manual lock themselves. I'll file a bug/whine more about it ^^ Thank you anyway :)16:10
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djszapiplease do not, just add your 0.02$ in the bug above.16:11
jmaisterHi! I'm having a wierd issue with svg on meego: it's supposed to look like this: Any idea what the problem may be?16:11
Aranel_N9MohammadAG yeah I heard that one but according to @djszapi its not working atm.16:12
Aranel_N9djszapi I'll do that too but I think manual lock also needs its own report, even if the more general api bug doesnt get fixed, at least it'd okay if they solve this spesific issue.16:15
djszapinone will be solved but go ahead :)))16:16
djszapiAranel_N9: but please make a reference from yoru report into the o ther16:19
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Jarei think nokia should bind manual devlock to the double click action of the power button16:25
djszapithat would block me to check out the date if the screenlock is on16:26
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djszapibut I think a software button would be nice16:28
djszapiArkenoi: you can write an OVI software for this with either a software button or double click as mentioned above :)16:31
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Jarehow so? There's a threshold value for double click action16:31
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faenilN9 44-2 ( PR 1.2 ? ) Firmware on navifirm!16:34
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Jarea software button in the app menu would be sufficient too16:36
Jarecan it be implemented by someone else than nokia?16:37
Jareor how is it with those credentials above?16:37
djszapiyes and no.16:37
djszapiit is not more than handling a button with that restart command. Not much more than that. Fairly simple app to Ovi. You cannot turn the autolock off though16:38
Jareanyway it shouldn't take more than "five minutes" for nokia to do such an app, should it?16:38
djszapiit should16:39
djszapimuch more than 5 minutes16:39
djszapiif possible at all that I doubt.16:39
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Jarebtw is there any news on samba filesharing?16:41
djszapiI think I shared everything needed about that16:42
djszapino changes expected16:42
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Sazpaimonso what's this 44-2 firmware about17:15
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Sazpaimonlooks like it's only available in MEA variants17:21
Corsachmhm, interesting, the phone just asked me my PIN code, without any reboot or so17:22
cos^Corsac: N9 or -50?17:26
cos^so the bug is in both models17:27
cos^did it happen in a place with poor cell reception?17:27
Corsachmhm, it's at full bars right now17:27
Corsacbut we have large, rock wals17:28
cos^mine seems to ask for pin code at home in a room with bad reception17:28
cos^but here at work it hasn't asked for it even once17:28
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Corsachmhm, what exactly is lost when doing a reflash?18:20
Corsac(or maybe, what is *not* lost)18:20
dm8tbryour IMEI :)18:26
dm8tbrcos^: I think there are at least two problems. One is related to bad reception, the other is related to how the card sits in the device.18:27
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cos^dm8tbr: could be. the latter is solved easier.18:39
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ZogG_laptophmmm, why would  char* data;18:51
ZogG_laptop    data = malloc(BUFFER_SIZE);18:51
ZogG_laptopwould work in C + gcc compiling18:51
ZogG_laptopwhile in qt creator it doesn't compiles =(18:51
djszapidepends on the "does not compile details".18:53
ZogG_laptopupload.cpp:92: error: invalid conversion from 'void*' to 'char*'18:55
djszapiprobably warnings are turned into errors18:56
djszapiand that is imho cool18:56
djszapibut anyway, show the code ..18:56
tommain c++ that is invalid comversion?18:56
djszapiZogG_laptop: you might need either a c style cast or reinterpret18:57
djszapiif gcc, probably c style cast is ok18:57
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i get result from curl18:58
ZogG_laptopso i used some function to set it in memmorry18:58
ZogG_laptopnow i need to get it to string18:58
djszapiZogG_laptop: or use .c suffix18:58
djszapiI am not sure whether qtcreator forces g++ in every case, but if not: .c suffix should do19:00
djszapiif it does, just cast it19:00
djszapibtw, you can always check how it tries to build and reproduce it on command line in such cases to see.19:02
tomma-fpermissive allows that with g++ but i would use c-style casting19:02
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djszapiI would use .c suffix for a c program19:03
djszapiif c++, I would not use c style cast..19:04
Piruc++ is anal about types19:05
ZogG_laptopit was simplest c program i kinda wrote (lurking in exmaples) and it works, but now i'm trying to get the qml gui for it so i need c++ =(19:06
djszapiwhy don't you use new then instead of the malloc thingie ?19:07
djszapiand you do not need this casting at all then19:07
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: i think my c++ and c knowledge too poor =\19:08
djszapichar *data = new char[BUFFER_SIZE];19:09
djszapiand then delete [] data; instead of the free stuff19:09
tommanice document
Piruextern "C"19:10
djszapiwhy would he mix C and C++ ?19:10
djszapiclean C++ is enough imho19:10
Pirubecause c++ is stupid :)19:10
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djszapiZogG_laptop: Also, make sure QByteArray/QString is not better for you than raw char* ;)19:12
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: slowly slowly19:14
ZogG_laptopi want to make something working and than to improve it19:15
ZogG_laptopwhy can't i just use my c app in qtcreator to make qml gui =(((((((((((19:16
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jonninice, I got my sourcecode.request dvd today, and indeed it seems to contain pr 1.1 kernel sources.19:23
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tommais there lots of custom opensource stuff?19:24
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Piruwell someone should put the stuff online :)19:25
jonniseems to have all the gpl sources that product uses.19:26
jonnimost likely someone will do that soon19:26
tommai mean the kernel19:26
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djszapijonni: as for me, it was not a question Nokia is fair or not in this question19:33
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* npm wonders if someone made an nfc screen lock for n9 -- and stick the nfc tag on your keychain19:42
Corsacwell, that means you have to have your keychain at 2cm from your n919:43
npmand if you're dumb enough to stick you keys in same pocket as phone...19:43
npmnot all the time. just to unlock the screen19:43
npmeasier than typing in a PIN19:43
npmjust touch your keys to the phone19:44
npmi guess i'm finally getting an nfc capable phone eventually (c7) but wrong os for this idea19:45
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ZogG_laptopi did it and compiiled app but still no go =)19:56
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ZogG_laptopjonni: hey20:01
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ZogG_laptopdamn that bug is F annoying and i would NEVR understand why Nokia releases only PR updates and no small fixes and especially BUG fixes20:05
ZogG_laptopthis politic is idiotic20:05
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fralswhat bug?20:07
ZogG_laptopfrals i got that bug when twitter account was unable to connect20:08
DocScrutinizer@all: please don't get this /topic wrong, for me that reads like "I know it, but I can't talk about that due to NDA", and "you just violated the non-NDA-topic", and quoting obviously private or classified stuff, all will cause banhammer. If somebody feels like sth's wrong in this chan, they approach a CHANOP and don't discuss it publicly in this chan. If somebody approaches some other member and threats him for whatever reason, the20:09
DocScrutinizervictim also approaches CHANOP and asks for help.20:09
ZogG_laptopso i reseted all accounts. now if i reboot all passwords are reset everytime and time to time i canot connect to skype or twitter so i need to delte account and re-add it, for twitter i need as well go to site and invoke n9 app access and that re-add account20:10
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: what was that about?20:10
DocScrutinizerwe seen a ressurection of the rather weird "and no NDA stuff here" part in topic20:11
ZogG_laptopwhat is NDA?20:12
MohammadAGSo my N950 is probably on 22-620:12
infobotI'm not allowed to tell you20:12
ZogG_laptopnot discuss a...20:12
MohammadAGShould I update it?20:12
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: yes20:12
DocScrutinizernon disclosure agreement20:12
MohammadAGNon Disclosure Agreement20:12
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: did you get it?20:12
MohammadAGZogG_laptop: It's in jerusalem20:12
DocScrutinizermeans nuttin20:13
DocScrutinizerI stll say it gets lost on last 100m20:13
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: yeah i have something to tell you than about topic but i can't coz of NDA =)20:13
MohammadAGSo I can't get my hands on it till another 11 hours20:13
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: It's home20:13
DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: you said "jehova"20:14
DocScrutinizerSTONE HIM20:14
DocScrutinizerlife of brian20:14
ZogG_laptopu confussing me20:14
DocScrutinizerZogG_laptop: everybody saying "NDA" in this channel gets kicked!20:15
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer20:15
*** DocScrutinizer was kicked by DocScrutinizer (WTF?!)20:16
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ZogG_laptopsometimes i don't get you people20:16
* ZogG_laptop throughs iphone at MohammadAG 20:18
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer: Its not working20:18
MohammadAGI'm already typing from one thanks20:18
MohammadAGI got really fast typing on iOS's virtual keyboard20:19
ZogG_laptopthere is irc cient on iphone? =)20:19
MohammadAGIt's way too good when you have haptic feedback on it20:19
MohammadAGYes obviously20:19
DocScrutinizeron a related topic: yoh dawg, heard you're complaining about me being rude to you, so I will kick you so you can complain about me being rude while you're complaining about me being rude20:19
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: can it call?20:19
daniel_ohrhrhrhr DocScrutinizer20:20
ZogG_laptopDocScrutinizer: =*20:20
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MohammadAGThere's also ssh, bash, xterm coreutils and apt20:20
MohammadAGZogG_laptop: Vibra on key press and buttons but not anything else20:20
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: i know just kiding20:20
MohammadAGLike harmattan but better20:20
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MohammadAGWe should add that to hildon in Fremantle/cssu20:21
MohammadAGAs an option of course20:21
ZogG_laptopadd what? vibra?20:21
MohammadAGJust requires patching libhildon20:21
MohammadAGVibra on button press, not screen press20:21
MohammadAGSo scrolling won't toggle vibra, pressing a button will20:22
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: like on n9(dunno about n950)20:22
MohammadAGYes, but that's half baked20:22
ZogG_laptopwhy is that?20:22
MohammadAGNot all buttons do it, the dialer does20:22
MohammadAGNot sure if that changed20:23
yipdwthe dialer in PR1.1 has haptic feedback20:23
yipdwor at least what I'm running does20:23
MohammadAGyipdw: What else? Nothing20:23
MohammadAGThe dialer had it since 1.020:23
yipdwMohammadAG: the Swype and English US onscreen keyboards20:23
MohammadAGyipdw: What I meant is it doesn't work across all the up20:24
yipdwI don't disagree20:24
ZogG_laptopMohammadAG: typing msg now and it has vibra on keys20:24
yipdwI'm just stating facts20:24
MohammadAGZogG_laptop: An MButton doesn't vibrate20:24
MohammadAGA QML Button doesn't vibrate20:24
MohammadAGIt's not universal like on iOS (via a custom tweak of course)20:25
MohammadAGWe can do it on hildon too20:25
MohammadAGPatch libhildon and ship in CSSU20:25
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Jareoh great, neither user nor root is allowed to create symbolic links20:47
ZogG_laptopsymbolik links are for ...20:57
ieatlintJare: are you by chance trying to do that in MyDocs?20:58
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augustlbeen googling around for installing android ICS on a N922:08
augustlanyone got some links for me? :)22:08
ajalkaneICS on a 1ghz processor? It might be a world of pain?22:08
augustlreally? hmm22:08
augustlit's made for dual core?22:09
ajalkaneLooking at the common Android hardware, N9 seems kinda underperforming. Just my impression.22:09
augustlworth a shot :)22:10
augustlgetting meego back onto the n9 might prove hard if I regret, though, right?22:10
ajalkaneThere's flasher out there if you have windows machine, you can always get it back22:11
augustlah, that's good22:11
augustlis ICS released though? Can't seem to find it22:11
ajalkaneSources are at least. I haven't heard anyone porting it to N9.22:11
ieatlintuh, just as a note, i wouldn't blindly assume the flasher will work like that22:13
ieatlinti honestly don't know, but i would not bet on it allowing you to simply revert22:13
augustlisn't that how flashers work? hmm22:14
ieatlintthere's a lot more that goes on than simply sending over the system image22:14
ajalkaneieatlint: if you can flash from Mer back to Harmattan, why wouldn't it work from Android back to Harmattan?22:14
augustlshould get a new phone I guess.. Tired of waiting for polish that'll probably never come..22:14
DocScrutinizershould work22:14
augustlah I should definitely test Mer too22:15
ieatlintajalkane: i'm really not saying it won't.. i'm just saying you should look into it more before you hose yourself22:15
ajalkaneieatlint: sure, good warning... I think augustl will be the first line in testing this ;)22:16
ajalkaneI wouldn't myself consider switching to Android from Harmattan22:16
ajalkaneI can imagine trying out Mer22:16
ieatlinti suspect the driver issues will prove problematic for android22:17
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ajalkaneLooking at where Ndroid for N900 is, it can be a rocky road22:18
augustlwhat kind of driver issues? Sound, graphics, typical linux driver problems?22:18
Stskeepsthe hardest thing won't be the drivers, the hardest thing will be operating blindly22:18
Stskeepsyou can't do a fbcon and you can't do auto fb update mode22:19
Stskeeps(that easily)22:19
Stskeepsso it's really difficult to bootstrap in the first place22:19
Corsacgrmbl, I don't have the PR1.1 flash image with me22:19
augustlStskeeps: what's fbcon and auto fb update mode?22:20
Stskeepsframebuffer console22:21
Stskeepsand the fact you have to tell kernel, manually, to update the display22:21
augustlbeen reading, got me hooked on Android..22:22
augustlhow "ready" is Mer? Can I browse the web, place calls and send SMS with it?22:23
Stskeepsyou mean Nemo, Mer's just a core22:23
Stskeepsand yes, phonecalls/sms work22:23
ajalkaneaugustl: if you think Harmattan is not polished, you won't like Nemo/Mer.22:23
Stskeepsprobably, yeah22:23
Stskeepsbut at least Nemo's OSS22:23
Stskeepsyou can polish the turd yourself22:23
ajalkanehaha yeah22:24
ajalkanegives something more meaningful to do for evenings than drinking beer22:24
augustlare there any other options I could check out?22:24
ajalkaneBeer, games and hookers.22:24
augustlI'll come back in 10 years22:26
augustlbasically I want xfce for a smartphone22:26
augustlby that I mean something linux-y and simple and clean that is very stable22:26
Stskeepsyeah, it sounds good at first but UI wise it's a nightmare22:26
Stskeepsand battery wise22:26
ajalkaneI'd say Nemo/Mer is you best hope. So if you're not overly enthusiastic about beer, games and hookers, I recommend to start hacking away with Nemo22:27
ajalkaneAndroid is quite loosely linuxy22:28
rcgare there open source implementation to do the very basics like telephony, sms, and websurfing via 3g yet?22:28
Stskeepsrcg: sure, Nemo22:28
augustlindeed.. That's why I don't want a transformer prime. I like my emacs ;)22:28
rcgi'm just asking.. i only follow nemo very loosely22:29
rcgStskeeps: i think you are quite active there.. is there some summary site that keeps track of new features, working features?22:30
Stskeepsrcg: and follow our release announcements22:30
augustlthat video shows Nemo has the same major annoyance that the N9 meego has.. You don't get good feedback when clicking and app icon.22:30
augustl(imo, of course)22:30
Stskeepsaugustl: send a patch, though i think that image is a bit slower than i've seen startups22:31
rcgStskeeps: great :)22:31
ajalkaneHarmy's one disadvantage is the slow loading of apps that use QML. Unless you provide a splasher image it seems too slow. I hope they can optimize it a bit22:32
rcgStskeeps: and well.. honestly, do you think it'll work out this time with creating a complete open source cellphone os?22:32
ajalkaneBut probably by the time they have optimized it the CPUs in smartphones have outran the optimizations already22:32
augustlI don't mind slow startup that much. It's more that you should get _some_ indication that you successfully launched the app. Like a spinner, or like iOS that immediately shows the splash screen22:32
augustlon N9 even if there's a splash you don't get to see it immediately22:32
rcgsorry for the lack of confidence ;)22:32
Stskeepsrcg: my main aim is the Core, i believe in open source cores, hardware adaptations not so much, UIs.. well, let's see22:32
Stskeepsnemo isn't half bad and much further than i've seen things be22:33
Corsacgngn, “can't connect to usb while your memory is in use”22:33
ajalkanesplash screens are displayed immediately. The problem is, it's up to the app developer to specify it, and many just skip providing it (including me :)22:33
Corsacok, but who uses it?22:33
rcgand one could run it on n9?22:33
ajalkaneYou can run Nemo on N9, I believe there's images already.22:35
ajalkaneIf not, it's in the plans22:35
ajalkaneBut it's probably not end user ready just yet, but for tinkerers could very well be22:36
Stskeepswe can always use more hands22:36
ajalkaneMy understanding is, that if you tried Meego CE on N900 in spring/summer, then you'll find Nemo better than that22:36
ajalkaneSo it's progressing...22:37
rcgwell.. i consider myself a tinkerer.. but i would like to have something to mess with that i can take with me on a regular basis and at least do the very basics like phone, sms, and web surfing22:37
dm8tbrthat we reached at midsummer release22:38
ajalkaneNemo can do that22:38
dm8tbrit was kind of the 'story' we wanted to complete for it22:38
rcgsounds great22:38
Corsaccould someone with access to a windows give me a link to PR1.1 firmware image?22:38
ajalkaneI hate the word story in development context :). Anyone know where it originates from?22:39
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dm8tbrajalkane: scrum uses this a lot in the way of 'user story'22:39
ajalkanedm8tbr: ah right, thanks22:40
dm8tbralso note that I put it in '' in the first place :)22:40
ajalkanedm8tbr: I noticed it, which reminded me of my distaste as you put it in quotes. Without the quotes I would have been steaming with rage but not saying anything :)22:41
dm8tbralthough I do think those 'user stories' are good metaphors for what is the goal. from the developer perspective they can be quite awkward. (I'm a project damager at work, can you tell?)22:42
dm8tbrbut back to the topic at hand :)22:42
ajalkaneI don't know what's wrong with use case.22:42
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dm8tbrthey just needed to reinvent the name I think22:43
ajalkaneUser story is still somewhat okay, it doesn't get my rage-a-meter to the red22:43
dm8tbrah, there is also the marketing 'story', yeah that makes my BS-o-meter asplode22:43
DocScrutinizeruser story is a kinda retarded term22:44
DocScrutinizeruse case is precise and to the point22:44
rcgwell.. if you want a retarded term.. -> monetizing enabler22:44
ajalkaneBut it really gets my rage-a-meter to boiling point when people are talking about 'stories' in development context22:45
Stskeepsmeh, HCI22:45
ajalkaneI'm not sure what's the problem, but I've not been enraged by the "ecosystem" as much as I was in spring. Maybe over-exposure. Maybe it has not been spouted so much recently.22:47
dm8tbrI'm sure they'll be soon back with an all new ecosystem story to shove in your face... :-þ22:49
ajalkaneGod save us all... can someone scrub that term from the irc logger buffer lets no CEO gets wind of the term?22:50
ajalkane* lest22:50
dm8tbrI could do that for #mer and #nemomobile, but not here, not my bot ;)22:51
Stskeepsdm8tbr: just as long as you don't start editing mailing list archives, urgh..22:52
ajalkaneI approve all editing of mailing list archives that include the words "ecosystem story"22:52
SpeedEvilMaybe just that the comparative 'ecosystems' are so toxic.l22:52
Corsachmhm, is there a way to not display the character at all when entering a password?23:05
dm8tbralso if you use swipe and there is a dictionary word in your password, it will show as a whole for a second ;)23:06
dm8tbrswype, sorry23:06
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Corsachmhm, interesting, there are 3 keys for the luks-encrypted signon files23:36
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DocScrutinizerwe got even THREE bots here23:44
DocScrutinizerliterally nobody is able to scub them all23:44
infobotDocScrutinizer: :)23:44
CorsacDocScrutinizer: hmhm btw was there finally a way to run untrusted binaries on developer mode or not?23:45
DocScrutinizererr as user I think you can run whatever you want23:45
DocScrutinizerI refused to upgrade to latest though, so better ask sb else ;-D23:46
DocScrutinizeresp since my not so latest version is convinently rooted23:46
DocScrutinizerso I couldn't even tell for that version23:47
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