| harbaum | ah, the n950 is alive again :-) | 00:03 |
|---|---|---|
| heikrnen | concratulations harbaum! | 00:04 |
| harbaum | jonni: Thanks for your help! | 00:04 |
| gri | gabriel9: 10 € for a snowboard? wow :D | 00:05 |
| gabriel9 | yea | 00:05 |
| gabriel9 | i'ts old | 00:05 |
| gabriel9 | burton t52 but in really good shape | 00:05 |
| gabriel9 | :) | 00:05 |
| gri | how old is old? | 00:05 |
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| gabriel9 | +10y | 00:06 |
| gri | I use mine for 9 years now and it still does its job :) | 00:06 |
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| gabriel9 | and today i found boots for 35€ northwave freadom | 00:06 |
| gabriel9 | i don't mind years, i just need to find out is it good for absolute begginers | 00:07 |
| gri | I don't know any difference between beginner boards and others. I would say as long as your feet fit on it it's ok :) | 00:08 |
| gabriel9 | this one fits good | 00:09 |
| gabriel9 | :) | 00:09 |
| b3ll | I heard iron boots are always great for boarding :-P | 00:09 |
| gri | wax it, give em sharp edges and it runs | 00:09 |
| gri | Don't try to teach snowboarding yourself, get a trainer :P | 00:10 |
| gri | (if not already done) | 00:10 |
| b3ll | yeah, you can seriously mess up your ankle, learn to walk with it first, and then stop | 00:10 |
| gabriel9 | i watch on yt :DF | 00:11 |
| gabriel9 | here is no trainer | 00:11 |
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| gri | hmm | 00:12 |
| gri | are you used to skiing? | 00:12 |
| gabriel9 | wehn i was i little i made skis from blinds and it was great | 00:13 |
| gabriel9 | :D | 00:13 |
| gabriel9 | and i knew how to skee back then without stripes or anything | 00:14 |
| gabriel9 | just stand on that improvised stuff and go | 00:14 |
| gri | yeah, that part is much harder on a snowboard :) | 00:14 |
| gabriel9 | i cant wait to try it | 00:15 |
| gri | you fall down many more times | 00:15 |
| gabriel9 | i got my N9 full of videos :D | 00:15 |
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| gri | I have three friends who tried snowboarding without a trainer and failed or hurt themselves :D | 00:15 |
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| gabriel9 | i will go slowly | 00:16 |
| gri | gabriel9: Which country are you at? | 00:17 |
| gabriel9 | first to learn how to stand, then some falling, then how to stoping | 00:17 |
| gabriel9 | Republic Serbska | 00:17 |
| gabriel9 | part of the Bosnian And Hercegovina | 00:17 |
| gri | too far from here :) | 00:17 |
| gabriel9 | you? | 00:18 |
| gri | germany | 00:18 |
| gabriel9 | not so far :) | 00:18 |
| gabriel9 | my father was in germany | 00:18 |
| gri | yeah, but too far for one day skiing | 00:18 |
| gabriel9 | that's true | 00:18 |
| gri | try on a small hill | 00:19 |
| gri | with one foot in the binding | 00:19 |
| gri | and the other one on the board but not inside | 00:19 |
| gri | that's important for getting out of a lift safely :) | 00:19 |
| gabriel9 | yea i imagine that | 00:19 |
| gabriel9 | i think it is good sport | 00:20 |
| gri | I really like it | 00:20 |
| gri | my favourite sport of the year :) | 00:21 |
| gabriel9 | also for summer it is nice to ride byke | 00:21 |
| gabriel9 | on the hills | 00:21 |
| gabriel9 | sorry for bad eng | 00:22 |
| gri | If I weren't that lazy ... my bike has a motor and has fast acceleration even up the hill :D | 00:22 |
| gabriel9 | it is nice | 00:23 |
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| gabriel9 | maybe i will come to germany, if there is nice ski tracks | 00:25 |
| gabriel9 | they give us visas so we can spend monney :D | 00:26 |
| gabriel9 | i was thinking to go on Qt developers days, but i could not get free days from my boss | 00:27 |
| gri | well, we have the alps :) | 00:27 |
| gabriel9 | yea you got alps :) | 00:27 |
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| JackaLX | jonni: thanks much for all your help, mate. I'm back up and running again now. | 00:51 |
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| Venemo | hey bradas | 00:57 |
| JackaLX | crap! it did it again | 00:57 |
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| JackaLX | I didn't have an original ssh.conf to put back in place so I copy/paste from a web site... the shasum must be wrong (whitespace probably) | 00:58 |
| JackaLX | where can I get my hands on /etc/init/ssh.conf from PR1.1? | 00:59 |
| mgedmin | JackaLX, just a sec | 01:08 |
| mgedmin | JackaLX, http://pastie.org/2916688 | 01:08 |
| JackaLX | mgedmin: thanks! | 01:11 |
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| JackaLX | mgedmin: awesome! sshd is working again! | 01:19 |
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| JackaLX | I'm blown away by how friendly and helpful you guys are in here. You all rock!! | 01:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >> | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | The latest additions to your Nokia Developer Prototype Device Loaning Service include the following phones: | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nokia Asha 300 (Series 40)Nokia Asha 303 (Series 40)Nokia 603 (Symbian Belle)C2-05 (Series 40)X2-05 (Series 40)X3-02.05 (X3-02 Touch and Type update) (Series 40)N9 (Meego) | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | See your intranet to request proto loan phones: http://wl4.peer360.com/b/W2Hn9fwcsfho42ophTvn/mle.asp?EID=205995&hl=114433387&r=CBCEBBJ | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | << | 01:47 |
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| * DocScrutinizer wonders if Nokia is aware of the less-than-3-seconds effect found by IBM, and the fact that Nokia $random_page needs like 45s to download and render on a standard PC with standard DSL(!) internet connection | 01:55 | |
| DocScrutinizer | @nokia: nobody, literally noone give a flying f*ck about your wallpapers and nifty flash animations when it needs >5s to load and render the page | 01:58 |
| ieatlint | i got that same email... but the DDP page for my (individual) launchpad membership is always empty | 01:58 |
| ieatlint | only time i've ever seen something on it was for the n950 | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | same here, F U Nokia | 01:58 |
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| * DocScrutinizer giggles on perspective to develop and twat Nokia's future SoCs for Lumia crap | 02:02 | |
| DocScrutinizer | twat?? wtf? test | 02:02 |
| JackaLX | windows phone... twat... yeah I see the correlation there :-P | 02:03 |
| ieatlint | twat that shit for nokia | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | @Nokia: heard your future devices ate using ST-E APE SoC. At least for WinCrap. Well, I'm still available for 6 days, if you offer better contract than ST-E | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/ate/are/ | 02:04 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: @Nokia: heard your future devices are using ST-E APE SoC. At least for WinCrap. Well, I'm still available for 6 days, if you offer better contract than ST-E | 02:04 |
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| * DocScrutinizer pokes konttori | 02:08 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | konttori; briliant schematics proofreader and system-architect sparrings partner to hire. No resentiments to fly 10h 5 times a month. Record to spot bugs. Countdown running - 6 days left | 02:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | ( I know s | 02:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | posts like "F U Nokia" are no good reference. If you mind you're not ready for me ;-D) | 02:12 |
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| Sput | DocScrutinizer: you sound frustrated. | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | I am | 02:32 |
| Sput | so it's just not me being drunk | 02:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | FOSS is a nasty landscape to make your living | 02:32 |
| Sput | freelancer? | 02:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I'm facing a contract as employee when I was freelancer for 30 years now | 02:33 |
| * Sput is actually glad being an employee | 02:34 | |
| Sput | 12 years of university with limited contracts all the time was enough for me | 02:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry when I don't sound extatic | 02:34 |
| Sput | well, seems like people always want what they don't have :) | 02:34 |
| Sput | I got tired fighting for a new contract every few months | 02:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, but doing the bend-over isn't fun either | 02:36 |
| Sput | who makes you bend over? Nokia? | 02:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | st-e | 02:36 |
| Sput | what's st-e? | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | stmicro - ericsson | 02:37 |
| Sput | ah | 02:37 |
| Sput | they working for Lumia? | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | possibly | 02:37 |
| Sput | I see | 02:37 |
| Sput | well, I guess Nokia proper is still hiring capable developers not working on Lumia :) | 02:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard Lumiy is using an integrated APE+gsm-stack arch | 02:38 |
| Sput | and at least in Ulm, I must say they provide quite good working conditions | 02:38 |
| Sput | dunno, I don't do windows | 02:38 |
| Sput | and I don't intend to | 02:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm rather going to work 4 outa 7 weeks in taipei or tampere, than to contract in Ulm | 02:39 |
| Sput | why that? | 02:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | no way I move, I'm an old fart who loves his tree he looks from bathroom window every morning | 02:40 |
| Sput | ah, so just because you want to stay, not because of the location | 02:40 |
| Sput | well, I can sort of understand that | 02:40 |
| Sput | in the end I still applied and moved to Ulm because of the opportunity, but of course it's only 200km from my hometown | 02:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm an IT guy, 25 years ago we invented remote workstations | 02:40 |
| Sput | where are you now? finland? | 02:41 |
| Sput | 25 years ago i started to discover girls :) | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | D, 49.45, 11.30 | 02:41 |
| Sput | too not sober to parse this | 02:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~weather EDDN | 02:41 |
| infobot | Nuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2011.11.25 0020 UTC; Dew Point: 30 F (-1 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.45 in. Hg (1031 hPa); Relative Humidity: 100%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 30 F (-1 C); Visibility: 2 mile(s); Weather: Mist; Wind: from the SE (130 degrees) at 3 MPH (3 KT) | 02:42 |
| Sput | ah | 02:42 |
| Sput | but... you could commute to Ulm :) | 02:42 |
| Sput | certainly easier than to Tampere | 02:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure I could, 4 out of 7 weeks | 02:42 |
| Sput | ~weather EDTK | 02:42 |
| infobot | I can't find station code "EDTK" (see http://www.nws.noaa.gov/oso/site.shtml or http://www.nws.noaa.gov/tg/siteloc.shtml for ICAO locations codes). | 02:42 |
| Sput | wtf. | 02:42 |
| Sput | did they finally kill the code from the database | 02:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh they closed some military base at Ulm? | 02:43 |
| Sput | nah not Ulm | 02:43 |
| Sput | I guess this one still works | 02:44 |
| Sput | ~weather EDSB | 02:44 |
| infobot | Karlsruhe, Baden Wurttemberg, Germany; (EDSB) 48-46-43N 008-04-47E; last updated: 2011.11.24 2220 UTC; Dew Point: 32 F (0 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.47 in. Hg (1032 hPa); Relative Humidity: 93%; Sky conditions: overcast; Temperature: 33 F (1 C); Visibility: 2 mile(s); Weather: Mist; Wind: Variable at 3 MPH (3 KT) | 02:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 02:44 |
| Sput | close enough | 02:44 |
| Sput | EDTK used to be Karlsruhe airfield | 02:44 |
| Sput | EDSB is Baden-Baden | 02:44 |
| Sput | well, Söllingen | 02:44 |
| Sput | I made my glider plane license at EDTK :/ | 02:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'm used to get wages that allow me to take a plane home and back to $LOCATION 2 times a month | 02:45 |
| Sput | but they closed it around 2005 | 02:45 |
| Sput | well, I can afford a BC100, that's sufficient for me :) | 02:46 |
| Sput | I'm sort of a train guy | 02:46 |
| Sput | did around 100 kkm every year the past 3 years | 02:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | train is fine for <200km | 02:46 |
| Sput | itym 2000 km :) | 02:47 |
| Sput | I refuse to take planes inside Germany or even central Europe | 02:47 |
| Sput | too much wasted time | 02:47 |
| Sput | and I love flying really | 02:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | when my team was in TPE I took the plane every 5 weeks, to stay 4 weeks (or 6..7 sometimes) in lovely taiwan | 02:47 |
| Sput | well, I'm still hoping Nokia is gonna send me $somewhere at some point :P | 02:48 |
| Sput | like, Oulo in winter | 02:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | 5 weeks @home and doing remote and telco, and 4 weeks at site pushing things physically worked kinda fine | 02:48 |
| SpeedEvil | np: Chris Reah - Road to hell | 02:48 |
| Sput | in any case, working at the Ulm location is fun | 02:49 |
| Sput | even though it's not Karlsruhe | 02:49 |
| Sput | nice people, interesting project, an employer who seems to care | 02:49 |
| * SpeedEvil wonders where he knows that name from. | 02:49 | |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - openstreetmap | 02:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | alas the pinguins get more narrow-minded on that, not allowing this kinda schedule anymore | 02:50 |
| Sput | we're finally introducing trust-based working times and 20% homeoffice next year | 02:50 |
| SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/House_numbers/Karlsruhe_Schema | 02:50 |
| Sput | we get our own schema? *click* | 02:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer yawns and moans a bit | 02:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | it's so amazingly hard to find some entity with money interested in a schamtics-review and general architecture wizard | 02:52 |
| Sput | why is this called "Karlsruhe Schema"? | 02:52 |
| Sput | it's not like we're special | 02:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | schematics* | 02:52 |
| Sput | DocScrutinizer: well, as a die-hard C++ coder with around 7 years of Qt experience under my belt, my choice of workplace came somewhat natural :) | 02:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I looked at GTA04 schematics for ~3 hours and found at least 15 bugs | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Sput: I think the guy that designed it implemented it there. | 02:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Sput: err | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | lived there | 02:54 |
| Sput | SpeedEvil: yeah, sounds like it | 02:54 |
| Sput | nice city, really | 02:54 |
| Sput | I didn't intend to move away | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 02:54 |
| Sput | but somehow, working at Nokia Ulm is worth it | 02:54 |
| SpeedEvil | OSM is popular in germany for some reason. | 02:54 |
| Sput | (I'm keeping my old appartment for the time being, to have some fun on weekends etc) | 02:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | yay | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | tricking your mind | 02:55 |
| Sput | ? | 02:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got like 4 friends to have a beer together here where I live - I have zero in Ulm or elsewhere | 02:56 |
| Sput | you mean Nürnberg? | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 02:56 |
| Sput | dunno, I already found people to have beer with in Ulm | 02:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 02:56 |
| Sput | nice colleagues etc | 02:57 |
| Sput | in any case, I do understand the reasoning to stay at home | 02:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | takes me 5 years to find a *friend* | 02:57 |
| Sput | I would've preferred to stay in Karlsruhe | 02:57 |
| Sput | but there's no way to get such a perfect job here than I have now | 02:57 |
| Sput | and tbh, I can afford to go back to Karlsruhe frequently to meet my old friends | 02:57 |
| Sput | and even keeping my appartment to have a place to stay on the weekends :) | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | tricking your mind | 02:58 |
| Sput | ? | 02:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | evaluate what's worthy and what's not, in your life | 02:58 |
| Sput | yeah, that's what one should always do | 02:59 |
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| Sput | been traveling between Frankfurt and Karlsruhe 4-5 times a week for the past 3 years | 02:59 |
| Sput | I can stand traveling between Ulm and Karlsruhe twice a week :) | 02:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd not live in a hotel room in a town 60km away, to come back to my friends and home posse every 6 weeks for a weekend | 02:59 |
| Sput | only 60 km? | 03:00 |
| Sput | that's like half an hour by car | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | no matter how far | 03:00 |
| Sput | you could even live in N | 03:00 |
| Sput | and work in UL :) | 03:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | duh, isn't that like 3h with train? | 03:00 |
| Sput | dunno how the connections are between N and UL | 03:00 |
| Sput | between KA and UL, it's 1:50 | 03:00 |
| Sput | that's short enough to go to Ulm on Monday morning and be back in KA on Thursday evening early enough to still be able to do something | 03:01 |
| Sput | that's a small price to pay for having a job that is exactly what you want to do for a living | 03:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, for 4 days that's ok. for 5/7 - no way | 03:02 |
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| Sput | yeah, I wouldn't want to stay in Ulm all week, I guess | 03:02 |
| Sput | maybe that'll change | 03:02 |
| Sput | but for for the time being, I am keeping both appartments | 03:03 |
| Sput | and I really don't mind train travel :) | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | train is nice - 2 or 4 times a week | 03:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | or for 3 months 5/7 | 03:03 |
| Sput | as I said, been commuting between KA and F for three years :) | 03:04 |
| Sput | so now that I switched to Ulm, I'll spend less time in trains | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | I owked in a town 130km away and I took train to go there every morning and back home every evening | 03:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | worked* | 03:05 |
| Sput | but really, I mean if I got a Qt-related, decently paid job in KA, I'd switch in a jiffy | 03:05 |
| Sput | but if the choice is "working for Nokia on a cool project in Ulm" and "working for 1&1 in KA"... | 03:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd switch for a job in Singapore or Taipei or Tokyo that alows me to do 35..50% remote from at home | 03:06 |
| Sput | with paid travel :) | 03:06 |
| Sput | dunno | 03:06 |
| Sput | I wouldn't want to spend 48 hourse per month in a plane | 03:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh, the jobs I do are way beyond where a few airline tickets really matter | 03:07 |
| Sput | good fp | 03:08 |
| Sput | woops | 03:08 |
| Sput | good for you | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | neither do 48h/month editing shit in an airplane | 03:08 |
| Sput | dunno | 03:08 |
| Sput | I lost my urge for leaving Germany in the few years I lived in the States :) | 03:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, OM spoiled me regarding that | 03:09 |
| Sput | that said, I wouldn't mind going back to Asia for a couple weeks for work/vacation/conference | 03:09 |
| Sput | but living there? nah | 03:09 |
| Sput | I prefer being close to KA :) | 03:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | living there? no way never | 03:09 |
| Sput | in the end, I guess what you do for a living really matters | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | maybe I can travel a bit for ST-E | 03:10 |
| Sput | and what I'm going now in Ulm is exactly what I wanted to do for the past 5 years | 03:10 |
| Sput | and I'm getting paid for it for a chang e:) | 03:10 |
| Sput | s/going/doing/ | 03:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | I wish I got paid for all my chanop and whatnot 1h/week "jobs" | 03:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I could make a living from it | 03:11 |
| Sput | aah well | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that's when I said "FOSS is a tough place to make a living" | 03:12 |
| Sput | I wish such things would only take 1h/week :) | 03:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | I easily sum up to 30h/week just for all those voluntary duties | 03:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | and while they are all fun, none of them buys my bagels | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | the "support my work (donations)" subscript on my tmo posts is just a joke | 03:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I'm going to join the troops of employment slavery next week :-S | 03:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | at last the topic is exciting: LTE modem modules | 03:16 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 03:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | and with a bit of luck, I can qualify for the "big problem solver for the customers" and travel a bit | 03:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | heard Nokia is using ST-E SOCs now for their winphones | 03:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | so if Nokia doesn't want to hire me, they maybe see me as representative of their SOC manufactirer ;-D | 03:19 |
| SpeedEvil | I guess you could try to push for a decent engineering mode info at least. :) | 03:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | I probably could and for sure will try | 03:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | It's a pity and a shame Nokia had decent engineering mode monitor in all their phones up to at least 3200 | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | but not any more on BB5 (or nobody knows how to use it) | 03:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://nobbi.com/phones.htm | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://nobbi.com/monitor/index.html | 03:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://nobbi.com/monitor/index.html#phones | 03:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | for jonwil: http://nobbi.com/monitor/smscbde.html | 03:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> Nokia 3210, 3310, 3410, 5110, 5130, 6110, 6130, 6150, 6210, 7110, 8210, 8850, 8890 mit FBUS<< | 03:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html | 03:34 |
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| DocScrutinizer | if it's too obfuscated for you: the idea is you can get a reading of distance to your serving Base Transceiver Station that is accurate to 550m. Making other nearby BTS yoru serving BTS you get same distnace value for them as well. And the icing on top is German O2 offers exact geographic locations of their BTS for free, by sending Gaus-Krueger coords on cell broadcast SMS channel 221 | 03:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | for other networks you need to resort to a (online) database to map Cell-ID to geographic location | 03:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | means: with just two BTS and their readings for TimeAdvance aka distance phone-tower, you get a location as precise as a square (or "parallelogram") with size 550m*550m | 03:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | a third BTS will add another stripe of 550m width going across that map, and statistically ruling out 50% of the original 550*550 square | 03:48 |
| * SpeedEvil tries to recall what a spherical geometry parallelogram is called. | 03:48 | |
| DocScrutinizer | a ring segment with concentrical circle segments as boundaries? | 03:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the intersection area of two rings | 03:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | funny enough there are two areas for two BTS aka circle centers | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | pretty much same story as for GPS | 03:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | for 3 rings your phone is in the intersection ara of 3 rings, each with a "thickness" of 550m | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | s/rings/serving BTS/ | 03:53 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer meant: for 3 serving BTS your phone is in the intersection ara of 3 rings, each with a "thickness" of 550m | 03:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the mega annoyance is neither Nokia nor any other modem manufacturer I know of is offering access to these functions nowadays, though they happily use them for their closed proprietary location aware services | 03:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | optimum you can get is TA aka distance to your serving BTS, and with a lot of luck you even get a list of neighbour cells but without any TA | 03:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | forced reselection probably is already deemed too invasive and hackerish | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah. | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | you could use a directional GSM antenna to make the C1/C2 criteria cause a "voluntarily" reselection to a "remote" neighbour cell | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Or TA of nearby BTSs | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | err | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | recently associated | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Which isn't quite useless | 03:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: 99.5% of "experts" think they can use signal strength for this - not realizing signal strength is a random generator but no metric for the distance to BTS | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | It's not wholly useless. | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | But... | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | At best it's +10dB -80dB or so | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 04:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | means you could see worse signal strength standing 50m from the tower than you get on a 10km distant hill | 04:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | figure parking decks etc | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | figure huge buildings causing shadowing | 04:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even to start with interference between direct signal and alternative path | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Relative timings may be fun. | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | But those are probably not broadcast. | 04:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | ell, seems there are ways to get TA value of serving cell from BB5 modem, but alas no way to force modem to "register" with a particular BTS and ignore the signal strength criteria C1/C2 for doing so | 04:06 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean - I assume there are 'beacon' packets from other cells - that are received by the modem when logged into a tower. It should in principle be possible to time these packets. | 04:07 |
| SpeedEvil | So you know the relative time, even though you do not know the time delay. | 04:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | so all you can do is track all info you can get, and hope for "natural" reselects/handovers | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | If you know the relative time delay - even if not the absolute time delay - you can work out position. | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | If you know, or can find out the real relative time delay of transmissions of the other towers beacon packets. | 04:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: that's what carriers do to "triangulate" your position, they sync all BTS paces to a central time source, probably GPS | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | I know. | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I mean on phone. | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, understood | 04:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | but then your modem has no concept of syncing/evaluating time delay of several BTS or even one BTS to *any* refernce | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure. But it receives the packets. | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | The packets have a time of arrival, and a time of transmission. | 04:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, but it has no time reference | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Even if they have no TA field. | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | You'd need some external reference, yes. | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | it never has any | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | But for example, if they don't drift, as they're all GPS locked, this might just work too. | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I know. | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | Anyway - night! | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | you don't see time of arrival from "outside" the modem | 04:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even modem itself has any notion of "time of arrival" | 04:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | as there's no absolute time reference in the modem that was exact enough for that stuff | 04:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | only time reference in GSM-transceiver is the pace broadcasted by serving cell via broadcast channel. Modem gets assigned a time slot and sends in that time slot, BTS notices the signal coming in late and orders some TimeAdvance to the particular modem so the signal falls exactly into the time slot despite the delay introduced by RF speed-of-light travel delay | 04:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | BTS supported triangulation is way easier to implement: each BTS syncs its own broadcaset timeslice pace to GPS global time. Then 3 BTS listen to a) GPS as seen locally b) both other BTS pace broadcast as seen locally c) the transmission of the particular mobile phone. Each of the 3 BTS mixes all 3 signals into one record that represents the timing between those 3 signals, and sends this record to a evaluating server $somewhere. The | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | server has 3 records with 9 values and can solve the equation and get the phone's position to an accuracy of +-10m | 04:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | few BTS are equipped with the needed equipment I am told | 04:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | they neither sync own pacemaker broadcast to GPS nor _could_ they listen to neighbour BTS signals | 04:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | so in the end usually BTS have no time reference similar to situation on mobile | 04:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | and "triangulation" anybody can get for your device is as exact as "in 120° sector 2 of base station 32145" | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | often not even the sector is known | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | O2 broadcasts 10m different positions for each of the sectors of a BTS, to alow mobiles to distinguish them | 04:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems very rarely you even got 4 90° sectors rather than 2 120° sectors | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | 3 120° | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never heard of BTS without sectors | 04:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | the fun bit is more that obviously they always use same CID for all sectors of one BTS, while you as well could think of these sectors as independent BTS | 04:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I wonder who cares | 04:51 |
| * DocScrutinizer makes a notice to consider "STFU" after 5 lines of posts without response | 04:52 | |
| JackaLX | ok, I seriously do not get this aegis stuff. It's gotta be the most evil and horrible thing I've ever seen in my life | 04:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | congrats, welcome to the club, you're not alone :-D | 04:54 |
| JackaLX | then I guess there's no point in me bitching because you've heard it all before, yeah? | 04:55 |
| JackaLX | All I wanna do is have a script start after boot that sed's a file in $HOME | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | ambitious project - thanks aegis ;-D | 05:00 |
| JackaLX | Is there any other way, aside from mucking about in /etc/init/apps, for user to have things auto-start on boot? | 05:00 |
| JackaLX | Like... can I have a cron at least? | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | xsession | 05:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no cron | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's alarmd | 05:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | which will gice you the benefit of even booting up your device when a scheduled event expires | 05:02 |
| JackaLX | hmm, that sounds interesting | 05:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | I heard user can advice alarmd to start a job at schedule - with root permissions ;-P | 05:03 |
| JackaLX | well in my world having root perms can be very handy, but I've found in Nokia-Fantasy-World it is more of a hindrance than a help | 05:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | root has NO special rights under aegis, it seems. Can't even write to ~user/ | 05:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | insane rationale, as root quite easily can su - user | 05:07 |
| JackaLX | I'm trying to find this alarmd thingy | 05:08 |
| JackaLX | do you know where they've hidden it? | 05:09 |
| JackaLX | not in the $PATH anywhere | 05:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | (su - user) but don't worry, I think with next version of aegis policies Nokia platsec tem will fix the issue, so root can't become user anymore, while user still can become root X-P | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | (alarmd) it's a lib | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik | 05:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's a awesome user interface to it - on fremantle | 05:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | called alarmed | 05:12 |
| JackaLX | haha, I just found a couple things in /etc/cron.daily. Looks like somebody was at least thinking about giving us a cron | 05:12 |
| JackaLX | here's a thought... why not just bung my script in ~/.profile | 05:20 |
| JackaLX | yes! that did it! | 05:26 |
| JackaLX | thanks for helping me think it through, mate. | 05:28 |
| JackaLX | WTF?!?! | 05:30 |
| JackaLX | there's a gazillion instances of the damn script running | 05:30 |
| JackaLX | more thinking's needed, but not right now. have better things to occupy myself with | 05:31 |
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| heeeegua | hi guys... | 08:16 |
| heeeegua | anyone now free to help me?! | 08:16 |
| heeeegua | about the barcode | 08:17 |
| heeeegua | under the harmattan | 08:17 |
| heeeegua | thanks. | 08:17 |
| heeeegua | I just want to know whether if the harmatten or maybe later's version have the feature to recognize the barcode. | 08:18 |
| heeeegua | or maybe there is a lib can give me the way to implement the same feature | 08:19 |
| heeeegua | are there someone now are free?! | 08:20 |
| dm8tbr | as I said already on #meego | 08:20 |
| dm8tbr | there is someone in here interested in implementing barcode/qr-code functionality | 08:20 |
| dm8tbr | AND: PLEASE grow some PATIENCE, thanks | 08:20 |
| heeeegua | dm8tbr....see you again...haha | 08:21 |
| heeeegua | thanks. | 08:21 |
| dm8tbr | people in europe just start waking up. it can still take an hour or two before someone answers. so lean back and watch the channel. | 08:21 |
| dm8tbr | or discover the channel logs mentioned in the topic | 08:22 |
| heeeegua | haha.....dm8tbr...which country are you come from. | 08:22 |
| heeeegua | ?! | 08:22 |
| dm8tbr | I hear there is a search function | 08:22 |
| heeeegua | Why didn't you are now on bed. | 08:23 |
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| dm8tbr | where I live it's the EET timezone, ergo time to go to work. BBL | 08:24 |
| heeeegua | oh... | 08:25 |
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| heeeegua | hi guys..... | 09:46 |
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| heeeegua | anyone now free to help me?! | 09:46 |
| heeeegua | about the barcode recognition | 09:46 |
| heeeegua | under the harmattan maybe | 09:47 |
| SpeedEvil | lardman|gone: | 09:47 |
| SpeedEvil | He does barcodey stuff. | 09:47 |
| heeeegua | I just want to know whether if the harmatten or maybe later's Meego version have the feature to recognize the barcode. | 09:47 |
| heeeegua | or maybe there is a lib can give me the way to implement the same feature. | 09:48 |
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| SpeedEvil | zbarcode | 09:48 |
| SpeedEvil | IIRC | 09:48 |
| heeeegua | yes | 09:48 |
| heeeegua | zbar code | 09:48 |
| heeeegua | I have already donwload it...and tried to cross-complie it | 09:49 |
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| heeeegua | but the failure as the result | 09:49 |
| heeeegua | hi SpeedEvil.. | 09:49 |
| heeeegua | you know have other some success example or maybe demo | 09:50 |
| heeeegua | ? | 09:50 |
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| heeeegua | the corresponding readme is not so detail. | 09:51 |
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| SpeedEvil | See mbarcode, for an example under freemantle. | 09:51 |
| heeeegua | so i didn't kown how to work on it | 09:51 |
| SpeedEvil | What are you hoping to do? | 09:51 |
| heeeegua | yeah..i know mbarcode .baseded on the zbarcode | 09:51 |
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| heeeegua | but i want know the mbarcode can work well under the meego?! | 09:52 |
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| heeeegua | I just want to prot the zbar into the meego device | 09:52 |
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| SpeedEvil | Why? | 09:52 |
| heeeegua | and do other some relevant works.. | 09:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Do you want a command-line app that recognises barcodes from a PNG it's fed? | 09:53 |
| heeeegua | such as scan barcode.... | 09:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Because this is going to be very easy. | 09:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Or do you want a nice video app with live-view, that automatically recognises the barcode, and goes beep - because this will be very hard. | 09:53 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially if you can't work out why a library won't compile. | 09:54 |
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| Sage | I'm unable to flash the N950 any ideas what is wrong: http://pastie.org/2918293 | 10:52 |
| SpeedEvil | It's something to do with blacklisting a module. | 10:53 |
| SpeedEvil | I should remember, but I've decided not to do any thinking today. | 10:53 |
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| Sage | :) | 10:53 |
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| psycho_oreos | Sage, what is wrong is that you own N950 ;) </lame_joke> | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: modprobe -r phonet and cdc_modem | 11:02 |
| psycho_oreos | should blacklist them too | 11:02 |
| flux | sage, do you run virtualbox or vmware? | 11:03 |
| flux | oh, maybe stskeeps' advice already worked | 11:04 |
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| hiemanshu | blacklist cdc_phonet | 11:07 |
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| xarcass | ~seen wazd | 11:11 |
| infobot | wazd <~wazd@broadband-95-84-185-178.nationalcablenetworks.ru> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 36d 11h 29m 33s ago, saying: 'Milhouse: easter egg for geeks? :)'. | 11:11 |
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| ZogG | hey | 11:16 |
| ZogG | morning | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | afternoon | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | .......... | 11:17 |
| ZogG | anyone played with oauth on harmattan? | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | yeah | 11:17 |
| ZogG | i wonder what libs it's better to use | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | OAuth.. | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | you know a lib | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | QOAuth | 11:17 |
| heeeegua | that's fine | 11:18 |
| ZogG | i found this one and liboauth | 11:18 |
| ZogG | ok i would try it | 11:19 |
| ZogG | just want to make some app | 11:19 |
| heeeegua | We have ever implemented a OAuth lib with Qt...but it's belong business product | 11:19 |
| heeeegua | . | 11:19 |
| ZogG | the next step would be to solve QT SDK installation | 11:20 |
| ZogG | heeeegua, can you explaine last sentence, didn't get you | 11:20 |
| heeeegua | try to install the QTSDK,,that's very easy.. | 11:20 |
| ZogG | heeeegua, not really, simulator depends on libpng-1.2 and i have 1.5 =) | 11:20 |
| heeeegua | I know nokia have already put the QtSDK1.4 | 11:21 |
| ZogG | i think i would use liboauth btw, as i want to make app console only at start and than to make a gui for it | 11:21 |
| ZogG | heeeegua, i'll check it | 11:22 |
| ZogG | do we have jansson port for harmattan? | 11:22 |
| heeeegua | that maybe easy to do...just follow the OAuth's rule. | 11:22 |
| heeeegua | three steps. | 11:22 |
| ZogG | heeeegua what do you mean | 11:23 |
| ZogG | ? | 11:23 |
| heeeegua | You just said....you want to use the OAuth ....just a console | 11:23 |
| heeeegua | !? | 11:23 |
| heeeegua | I means... | 11:24 |
| heeeegua | You can follow the OAuth's rule... | 11:24 |
| ZogG | i'm making kinda like flickr and other image apps, but for other service using oauth1a | 11:24 |
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| ZogG | fior now i finished anonymous only upload, but than no galleries and other things | 11:25 |
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| tabasko | howdy | 11:25 |
| tabasko | I would like to remove youtube bookmark from appgrid (cutetube rocks) | 11:26 |
| tabasko | I tried to search packages related to youtube, but they all seems to be related to uploading from gallery or so | 11:27 |
| ZogG | tabasko i don't think you can, maybe if only you delete it manualy via root | 11:27 |
| ZogG | but still it mostly in harmattan meta package | 11:27 |
| tabasko | ZogG, Im ready to do that :P | 11:27 |
| tabasko | ouch | 11:27 |
| heeeegua | anyonw know?!how to implement the feature under the harmattan with the zbar. | 11:27 |
| ZogG | tabasko, than search for the right app name and apt-get remove or what si the comand | 11:27 |
| ZogG | heeeegua, what do you mean? | 11:28 |
| heeeegua | I means...I have an issue under the harmattan.. | 11:28 |
| tabasko | maybe I leave it alone, I hope next update with folders is coming soon. Its prettu hard to find anything especially when there is useless icons too | 11:29 |
| heeeegua | about how to implement a functionality with zbar | 11:29 |
| heeeegua | zbar is a lib for barcode recognition. | 11:29 |
| heeeegua | Anyone have ever tried it?! | 11:29 |
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| tabasko | hmm, does enabling developer-mode consume more space or resources? | 11:32 |
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| SpeedEvil | A tiny bit. | 11:32 |
| tabasko | I mean is there more debugging in logs or more daemons/scripts running | 11:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Due to extra packages installed - 20M? | 11:33 |
| tabasko | I can live with that | 11:33 |
| SpeedEvil | Generally nothing significant. | 11:33 |
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| tabasko | it would be fun if there was some custom apt repos for things like nethack and some usefull apps :) | 11:35 |
| tabasko | like slurm, or bitlbee | 11:35 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: didn't help rmmoding those | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | try blacklist then | 11:53 |
| SMarek | Hi, what is now supported way to turning QWidget applications to portrait? I have N950 with 39-5 FW, and it's not taking any effect | 11:53 |
| SMarek | http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/aleksandr-trufanovs-forum-nokia-blog/2011/08/13/harmattan-orientation | 11:53 |
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| Sage | Stskeeps: blacklisted the cdc_phonet and didn't help | 11:55 |
| flux | sage, and you're not running virtualbox/vmware? | 11:56 |
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| Sage | flux: I have virtual box installed, but not running on that no. | 11:56 |
| flux | sage, ok, shouldn't be the problem then | 11:56 |
| Sage | o_0 | 11:57 |
| Sage | it started to work after adding phonet to blacklist as well | 11:57 |
| Sage | cdc_phonet wasn't enough | 11:57 |
| Sage | at least it says earasing now | 11:57 |
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| Sage | flux, Stskeeps: any idea what "bb5_rdc_cert_read failed" means? http://pastie.org/2918595 | 12:14 |
| Stskeeps | Sage: do you have security lock on there? | 12:14 |
| Sage | I had one yes, I though I disabled it though. But maybe not then? | 12:15 |
| Sage | the question now is what to do next. it doesn't boot to harmattan and I can't flash it :) | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | erase mmc? | 12:17 |
| Sage | Stskeeps: it did that already with ocf see pastie | 12:18 |
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| Stskeeps | Sage: try again with flash | 12:19 |
| Sage | ok | 12:21 |
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| lardman | heeeegua: sorry for the slow response | 12:51 |
| lardman | got distracted by booting Nemo on Galaxy Tab, should have been testing mBarcode | 12:52 |
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| jonni | Sage: usually bb5 fails come if image's crc/signature checksum doesnt match, or when trying to downgrade firmware. so .bin file might be corrupted, then redownloading usually helps. | 12:56 |
| jonni | got my inscribed 64GB N9 today, happy happy joy joy... just downloading the update to PR1.1 and then adding über develsh. | 13:06 |
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| lardman | jonni: inscribed? | 13:23 |
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| jonni | lardman: internals that were involved with harmattan got a device with their firstname and surname inscribed on the side . | 13:39 |
| jonni | just noticed that newest meego-terminal now supports copy/paste, pretty nice | 13:39 |
| andre__ | "no reselling"? :P | 13:39 |
| leinir | andre__: ...but why would you?! | 13:40 |
| andre__ | maybe because I'm afraid that I have a big hardware cemetery here in 20 years ;-) | 13:41 |
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| SMarek | Please, when creating Menu in QML, what is it's default height? Thanks | 13:49 |
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| lardman | jonni: ah ok, cool :) | 14:22 |
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| vadimq_ | hmm, is it normal for the N9 to take ages to boot on the first use? | 15:07 |
| leinir | On first use it does take a while, yeah, or at least can do :) | 15:09 |
| vadimq_ | what does it spend so much time on? | 15:10 |
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| cos^ | setup is examining your phone | 15:17 |
| vadimq_ | hah | 15:17 |
| vadimq_ | But seriously, I'm a bit curious, as I do intend to try to mess with it quite a bit | 15:18 |
| psycho_oreos | and calling home to nokia and informing them that you have activated your one-and-only-device | 15:18 |
| vadimq_ | that would be difficult since there's no sim card in it, and no open wifi networks around | 15:19 |
| psycho_oreos | that could be why its taking awhile, because of no SIM card ;) | 15:19 |
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| vadimq_ | well, I figured it should be usable without one, just have no network connection. At least that worked for the other phones I had | 15:24 |
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| frals | you dont need a sim for it to boot up no :p | 15:37 |
| vadimq_ | well, it's been spinning this thingy for at least half an hour now | 15:38 |
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| frals | that sounds like something went wrong | 15:38 |
| vadimq_ | awesome | 15:38 |
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| vadimq_ | I did get the language selection screen, after which it went back to the spinning | 15:39 |
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| RST38h | BTW, what is the story with for-meego application manager? are we going to see any non-trivial applications there? | 15:59 |
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| ZogG_laptop | holla | 16:09 |
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| ZogG_laptop | any one can tell if it's okay to use oath in open source? | 16:19 |
| leinir | oath? | 16:20 |
| leinir | oauth? | 16:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | yes | 16:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | oauth | 16:23 |
| ZogG_laptop | as i would use open source i need to use my keys in it | 16:24 |
| leinir | right, in that case, no problem at all - what makes you think there's an issue with oauth and open source? :) | 16:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | as they are the part of my app | 16:24 |
| frals | usually service providers that you connect to with oauth requires you to not disclose the application id/key | 16:24 |
| ZogG_laptop | frals: that's the problem | 16:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | if my app would be opensource the key would be in it | 16:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | or i'm missing something | 16:25 |
| leinir | that, i suspect, would depend on interpretation | 16:25 |
| flux | even if it were closed, wouldn't someone be able to reverse engineer the id from your application? | 16:25 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: no idea | 16:25 |
| frals | just blank out the appid when you commit and its fine | 16:26 |
| leinir | flux: exactly | 16:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | frals: but when i release the app as deb with src? | 16:26 |
| frals | leave a comment where the person can get their own at www.xxx.com | 16:26 |
| frals | well, then anyone can get it ;) | 16:26 |
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| frals | either way unless someone abuses your key its unlikely to be a problem | 16:26 |
| ZogG_laptop | frals: as i understand it's used to authorise app only | 16:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | and thanu get user keys | 16:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | frals: i just want to make it right from the begining =) | 16:27 |
| frals | yes, and the service will see any requests using your id/key as coming from your app, and if someone abuses it its your app that wont have access anymore ;) | 16:27 |
| ZogG_laptop | frals: that's the proble as well | 16:28 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, what do you need to use your oauth tokens for? | 16:28 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux app for imgur i'm writting | 16:28 |
| thp | so, is it still possible in PR1.1 to run binaries on the device without putting them in a .deb first? is there a wiki page with the necessary aegis commands? | 16:28 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, so it would be imgur credentials in the application? | 16:29 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, I'm afraid there's no avoiding that someone would be able to get those credentials somehow.. | 16:29 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: right | 16:29 |
| flux | except to hope that nobody will try to get them ;) | 16:29 |
| flux | is it difficult to get credentials? in other words, could the application user get her own credentials easiliy? | 16:30 |
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| pabs3 | sounds like oauth is broken by design? | 16:31 |
| flux | pabs3, how would you improve it? | 16:31 |
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| flux | the only possibility to fix that would be have encrypted+signed packages in the ovi store, that contain the credential | 16:31 |
| flux | and upon installation they would decrypt such credentials into aegis secure storage | 16:31 |
| pabs3 | dunno, but embedding keys in apps is just broken | 16:32 |
| flux | well, I don't think that's oauth's fault | 16:32 |
| flux | I don't know if ovi store or n9 provide such security facilities.. | 16:32 |
| ZogG_laptop | no the problem is not that | 16:33 |
| ZogG_laptop | the user creditals are different anyway | 16:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | and you need to prove app from account | 16:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | the problem in publishing my keys that anyone can use other app as "my app" | 16:34 |
| ZogG_laptop | i mean imgur would see it like my app if someone uses my creditals | 16:35 |
| flux | so there needs to be two sets of authorization for imgur? one for user, one for app? | 16:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | and it's not right | 16:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: as far as i understand that | 16:35 |
| flux | well, it just needs to be understood that someone CAN steal them, no matter what | 16:35 |
| ZogG_laptop | i have two keys | 16:35 |
| flux | then you update your keys and upgrade the versions | 16:35 |
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| ZogG_laptop | authorization and consumer keys | 16:36 |
| flux | and then imgur can ban the previous key | 16:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | and with them thru api i get keys per user | 16:36 |
| flux | perhaps hiding them this time a little bit better ;) | 16:36 |
| artemma | hmm, I thought that having some sort of client_secret + user specific info is kind'of standard | 16:36 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: it would breake all the idea of open source i think =) | 16:36 |
| flux | there was this open source game that does something similar | 16:37 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, are you bound by a GPL license? | 16:37 |
| flux | if not, it's your software, protect it as you want ;) | 16:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: no, it's my appp, i can use it as closed source as well | 16:37 |
| ZogG_laptop | but i want to make it opensource coz i believer =) | 16:38 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, maybe you could keep the parts related to key hiding.. hidden | 16:38 |
| flux | or support multiple authentication mechanisms, and provide imgur/oauth with a plugin! | 16:38 |
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| ZogG_laptop | what do you mean by last one | 16:38 |
| ZogG_laptop | i want to ask khertan but he is not around anymore | 16:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw where is he? | 16:39 |
| ZogG_laptop | artemma: it is the standart, but how it would help me | 16:39 |
| artemma | yeah, probably I missed to much of the conversation and my sugegstion was irrelevant | 16:40 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, I think the best you can do is to have a form in your website that creates keys for your app | 16:40 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, and that form would be programmatically accessed by your imgur client | 16:40 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, and that form would also require the user to solve a captcha | 16:40 |
| flux | this way you can yourself monitor for suspicious activity! | 16:40 |
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| flux | of course, people could solve them as well, but at least they would be only be able to create a few keys, until your limitation algorithm reacts. perhaps. | 16:41 |
| flux | (I meant by that: people could write the program to retrieve the captchas and solve them manually to retrieve the keys) | 16:42 |
| flux | there was this one open source space (?) game that puts out executables with security features to prevent cheating on their servers. that is, only authorized clients can play on certain servers. | 16:43 |
| flux | last time I heard it was working pretty well. | 16:43 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: so it would make no sense in using oauth | 16:44 |
| flux | perhaps not, indeed | 16:44 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, btw, it's great to hear that you're doing such a sharing plugin (it is going to be integrated with the rest of the system, right?), because I've always wanted an scp/sftp-client for sharing images, and your client should be easy enough to modify to do just that ;) | 16:44 |
| flux | (or perhaps even using http on my custom server instead of imgur's) | 16:44 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, but, you know what? if oauth if the fastest way to make your application work, perhaps you can just use that, and if problems arise later, use other approaches | 16:45 |
| flux | if the -> is the | 16:45 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: that would be easier, you can use mine code already, though it's not polished | 16:45 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, have you chosen a name for the app, btw? | 16:46 |
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| ZogG_laptop | as i want to add gui and than to add the things, and than to start polishing code, as for now it's just main function doing everything and what i get is url of img and no other data | 16:46 |
| borco | hi | 16:46 |
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| ZogG_laptop | flux: n9imgur would right for now | 16:46 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, I shall try to keep that in mind, so I'll find it when it's more close to completion ;) | 16:47 |
| flux | funkycode? | 16:47 |
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| borco | when i received my n950, it was having a couple of apps that showcased the qml widgets. after updating the firmware, they are gone. any idea where to find them? | 16:47 |
| flux | heh, temporary vi file in src.. | 16:47 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: lol =) new to git, didnt really added it | 16:49 |
| ZogG_laptop | deleted it | 16:50 |
| ZogG_laptop | or ot | 16:51 |
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| ZogG_laptop | flux: it's vim =) and now deleted, clone the git, you would need jansson and curl libs as dependies | 16:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | than just make, it would create bin/n9imgur | 16:54 |
| ZogG_laptop | the usage is simly : bin/n9imgur file.png | 16:55 |
| flux | zogg_laptop, I'll try to do that at some point, although so far I've been unsuccessful at finding time to do n9 app development ;) | 16:55 |
| flux | (apart for qml hello-world) | 16:55 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: for now it moves slowly and as you see i only code the part without gui for now | 17:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | i'lll add gui after that and break my app into parts | 17:00 |
| ZogG_laptop | so it would be easier to insert it into gui as functions | 17:00 |
| flux | I suggest at this point to keep in mind that network operations can sometimes stall, but the user interface shouldn't :). | 17:01 |
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| ZogG_laptop | flux: noone forbbid loading icon and timeout of operation | 17:03 |
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| flux | zogg_laptop, I'm not sure if the system will be happy if it doesn't respond to X events when you swipe the app away/to the front | 17:04 |
| flux | it might pop up the 'application not responding, kill with extreme prejudice'-dialog.. | 17:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | flux: i think there would be no problems | 17:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | btw interesting to add uploading bar after that | 17:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | but it's when i'll get oauth | 17:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | as than i'll start playing with configs and more options as galleries/deleting and other | 17:07 |
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| ZogG_laptop | http://groups.google.com/group/twitter-development-talk/browse_thread/thread/c18ade9d86c8b239 | 17:09 |
| flux | quite.. complicated | 17:13 |
| flux | for the user that is | 17:13 |
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| ZogG_laptop | the problem that they only have oauth | 17:23 |
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| corecode | hi | 17:30 |
| corecode | yey n9 + meego | 17:31 |
| corecode | much better than my n900 | 17:31 |
| X-Fade | Can somebody remind me again how to backup your messages/conversations in harmattan? Where were they stored again? | 17:36 |
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| corecode | hmm | 17:51 |
| corecode | i think i did something wrong with mc-tool | 17:52 |
| corecode | seems my xmpp account doesn't have a name | 17:52 |
| lardman|home | ~ping | 17:55 |
| infobot | ~pong | 17:55 |
| lardman|home | what was the suggestion for how to install .debs once logged in as developer? | 17:56 |
| lardman|home | ah, devel-su worked, phew | 17:57 |
| Jare_ | corecode: mine doesn't too, but it works anyway. I haven't figured out a way to add a service name there for example like Facebook or SIP | 17:58 |
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| * gri starts cursing aegis (because I don't understand it ...) | 18:18 | |
| djszapi | first post after my join :D | 18:18 |
| djszapi | there is no news under the sun ? :) | 18:19 |
| gri | djszapi: especially for you | 18:19 |
| gri | djszapi: Do you have a clue how applauncherd/invoker and aegis work together? | 18:19 |
| gri | I use libsignon-qt to store credentials which are protected by my application token (no other application can read them) | 18:20 |
| gri | this works fine, but my application does not get it's own AID token when started with invoker -> can't read my own information | 18:20 |
| djszapi | busy atm, sorry. | 18:20 |
| gri | ok .. | 18:20 |
| corecode | Jare_: yea | 18:21 |
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| corecode | what version is PR1.1 for N9? | 18:22 |
| Jare_ | settings->about | 18:22 |
| corecode | i have 10.2011.34-1.232.2_PR_232 | 18:22 |
| Jare_ | lemme check | 18:22 |
| gri | 40-4 is pr 1.1 | 18:22 |
| corecode | ah | 18:22 |
| corecode | is there a way to do an OTA update? | 18:23 |
| Jare_ | 20.2011.40-4_PR_001 | 18:23 |
| corecode | Jare_: how did you update? | 18:24 |
| Jare_ | through the official software update since PR1.1 is already available here in Finland | 18:25 |
| corecode | mm | 18:26 |
| corecode | how does it know where it is? | 18:26 |
| djszapi | hey guys, a n00b QtQuick components question, but doesn't my toolbar rotate if I change the orientation, just the page ? | 18:27 |
| djszapi | why* | 18:27 |
| djszapi | I am using the QtQuick Harmattan component example. | 18:28 |
| gri | djszapi: How did you create the toolbar? | 18:30 |
| gri | djszapi: Or are you just running the components gallery? | 18:30 |
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| dymaxion | i just had the evil 100% cpu issue, removed .cache/trackerd directory fixed it :-/ phew.... | 18:30 |
| djszapi | copy/paste, and no: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt-components/qt-components-meego-simpletutorial.html?tab=1 | 18:30 |
| gri | djszapi: Hmm, the example code looks ok and my toolbars always change orientation | 18:31 |
| dymaxion | I was thinking of filing a bug report on my contacts problem... just wondering if anyone else has had same problem.... I click "merge" to merge duplicates from FB/Skype/GoogleContacts/Phone and then a few minutes later all my merges are wiped out.. .and reset (exploded out again)... | 18:32 |
| djszapi | gri: time to rewrite it in asm ;-) | 18:33 |
| gri | djszapi: Ok, see you in two years :P | 18:38 |
| djszapi | gri: it is interesting, it even duplicated the topbar (a.k.a. battery icon, network provider icon, signal strength icon and the time on the right).. | 18:38 |
| * djszapi should not do any Ui development ;-) | 18:40 | |
| tomma | anyone else have random "incorrect password" with google talk when setting availability to online? | 18:40 |
| gri | djszapi: Do you have a short code for demonstrating this? | 18:44 |
| djszapi | define short code ;-) | 18:44 |
| gri | one .qml file | 18:44 |
| djszapi | no | 18:44 |
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| djszapi | so what is the alternative for "MBasicListItem" by using QtQuick Components ? | 19:00 |
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| djszapi | so is there any harmattan component specific way of creating content item in a list ? | 19:01 |
| tomma | content item in list? | 19:01 |
| tomma | you mean model? | 19:01 |
| vladest | hi | 19:01 |
| tomma | or delegate for model? | 19:01 |
| vladest | how to build qtcomponents for harmattan under win32? | 19:02 |
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| djszapi | tomma: no, I mean Component actually. | 19:03 |
| djszapi | if we speak in QML term. | 19:03 |
| djszapi | it is content item in MTF | 19:03 |
| djszapi | so I would like to build something like a simple list (for instance in the Settings, icon, text, arrow to another page) except that I would also like to have a subtext. | 19:04 |
| djszapi | if you can check out the meePrint application I wrote in MTF...well, that represents the idea. | 19:04 |
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| tomma | djszapi, http://doc.qt.nokia.com/latest/qdeclarativemodels.html | 19:05 |
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| gri | djszapi: model and import com.nokia.extras and ListDelegate component | 19:05 |
| tomma | i dont think there is anything specific in components? | 19:05 |
| gri | ListDelegate supports icon, title and subtitle | 19:06 |
| vladest | heelo? enyone? | 19:07 |
| gri | vladest: why? It's already built when installing the qt sdk | 19:07 |
| djszapi | tomma: that is not really my question | 19:07 |
| gri | djszapi: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4691970/2011-11-16_18-22-00.png this look + icon? | 19:08 |
| djszapi | There is a thing called "MBasicListItem" in MTF, I would like to get the qml wrapper | 19:08 |
| vladest | gri: I want to build version > 1.1 from git and install on device | 19:08 |
| djszapi | since that rocks, it has everything I have. | 19:08 |
| gri | vladest: For compiling for the phone you'll need the scratchbox | 19:09 |
| djszapi | gri: in my understanding, Component is the delegate. | 19:09 |
| djszapi | vladest: or madde | 19:09 |
| djszapi | if you are newbie and not using cmake, I would recommend madde | 19:09 |
| gri | vladest: Windows should work out of the box, if not, read the README or INSTALL file in git | 19:09 |
| vladest | djszapi: ok, opened madde window, what next? | 19:10 |
| gri | djszapi: Whatever component is for you?! Don't get your question | 19:10 |
| vladest | I think, I have to run configure.bat | 19:10 |
| djszapi | gri: Component is a QML element, like Rectangle. | 19:11 |
| vladest | but qmake for harmattan not in the path | 19:11 |
| djszapi | that's been working for delegating like since ever. | 19:11 |
| djszapi | not sure what "ListDelegate" is. | 19:11 |
| gri | ListDelegate is a predefined delegate component of com.nokia.extras | 19:11 |
| djszapi | I see it nowhere in the documentation | 19:12 |
| gri | extras is missing in the docs | 19:12 |
| djszapi | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/qt4/demos-declarative-flickr-mobile-listdelegate-qml.html?tab=3&q=ListDelegate&sp=all -> this one, well I would not like to use undocumented feature, sorry. | 19:12 |
| gri | undocumented != unsupported | 19:13 |
| gri | if you install the QML components gallery, you'll get two of them. One for com.nokia.meego and one for com.nokia.extras | 19:13 |
| djszapi | undocumented = maintenance hell | 19:13 |
| gri | well, if you don't like it, copy it ... but that's even more plainless | 19:15 |
| djszapi | I do not need it for copy/paste. Meh, it seems qml is still worse than the MTF opportunities. | 19:15 |
| djszapi | I did not think such a simple item, like the MBasicListItem is not exposed :/ | 19:15 |
| gri | well, it's there, you just want not to use it since you do not accept com.nokia.extras as opportunity | 19:16 |
| djszapi | I do not use undocumented stuff sorry. | 19:16 |
| djszapi | if they do not care about their product, I do not care either. | 19:17 |
| gri | well, missing on harmattan-dev library does not mean undocumented | 19:17 |
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| gri | actually there is documentation inside but not visible on harmattan-dev | 19:17 |
| gri | those components are even used by the ovi store app | 19:18 |
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| djszapi | I did it many times, and they screwed up my plan many times like this, sorry it is no go for me. | 19:18 |
| gri | since the MNotification copy of qml belongs to them | 19:18 |
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| djszapi | apparently every single example presents a different ListDelegate. | 19:23 |
| djszapi | an own implementation instead of having a magic one. | 19:23 |
| djszapi | since my app is mostly the page of lists, might be simpler to write it in MTF | 19:24 |
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| gri | <djszapi> apparently every single example presents a different ListDelegate. <- huh? | 19:25 |
| djszapi | check out | 19:25 |
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| gri | where? | 19:26 |
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| djszapi | link above, + widgetgallery | 19:27 |
| djszapi | just type QListDelegate into the public SDK search field... | 19:27 |
| gri | the link above is a qt example | 19:27 |
| djszapi | zillion results with various own implementations. | 19:27 |
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| gri | don't mix plain qtquick examples with qt-components examples | 19:27 |
| djszapi | no... | 19:27 |
| djszapi | that is /qml/.. | 19:28 |
| djszapi | those are the resulsts of the public documentation | 19:29 |
| djszapi | qml, components are still crap, /me is heading to MTF again. | 19:29 |
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| gri | djszapi: https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/examples/meego/QmlComponentGallery/qml/ListPage.qml#line167 | 19:29 |
| gri | even the qml components gallery demo uses the ListDelegate of com.nokia.extras | 19:30 |
| djszapi | so what ? still not documented ? | 19:30 |
| djszapi | sorry, but I left my crystal ball at home what features, properties and so on it has | 19:30 |
| djszapi | and anyway, it is already done in MTF... | 19:31 |
| gri | well, aegis is also not that good documented and I have to use it :P | 19:31 |
| djszapi | but I do not have to use QML ? | 19:31 |
| djszapi | that example is as poor as it can be... | 19:32 |
| gri | no, you don't. But it's easier with qml than mtf | 19:32 |
| djszapi | also, that listdelegate makes no sense | 19:32 |
| djszapi | since it starts building the stuff that you can do that as well anyway | 19:32 |
| djszapi | easier ? Yeah, I see.... | 19:32 |
| gri | easier if you're used to it, yes | 19:32 |
| djszapi | 30 minutes and still nothing, and 2 minutes with MTF ;-) | 19:32 |
| gri | more annoying if you're not used to it | 19:32 |
| djszapi | as I said, that listdelegate makes no sense in that example, at least | 19:33 |
| djszapi | since what it does, can be seriously done the same way with Component... | 19:33 |
| gri | why doesn't it make a sense? don't get that | 19:33 |
| tomma | someone should document that ListDelegate... or else you have to check from ListDelegate.qml those RoleNames for model everytime | 19:34 |
| tomma | unles there is some complete model for those items? | 19:34 |
| djszapi | anyway, I would use first MTF, then Components than this crap | 19:34 |
| gri | yes, that's your opinion | 19:35 |
| gri | mine is different :) it took me a long time to decide between mtf and qtquick .. | 19:35 |
| djszapi | Component has nothing to do with mtf | 19:35 |
| djszapi | so where is this supermagical ListDelegate implemented ? | 19:36 |
| gri | take a look at /usr/lib/qt4/imports/com/nokia/extras/ListDelegate.qml | 19:37 |
| djszapi | https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/extras/ListDelegate.qml | 19:38 |
| gri | there also, yes | 19:38 |
| djszapi | it does not have the main and subtext exposed. | 19:39 |
| gri | your model has to provide a title and subtitle role | 19:39 |
| djszapi | mmm, it gets those from the model | 19:39 |
| tomma | as i said... it should be documented... you give it model which has right rolenames | 19:39 |
| gri | ListElement{ title: "title" } | 19:39 |
| gri | or c++ | 19:40 |
| djszapi | well it does not have two images in the first place I need. | 19:40 |
| djszapi | like the simple Settings list item entry.. | 19:41 |
| djszapi | mmm...borderimage... | 19:41 |
| gri | which settings list entry has two images? | 19:41 |
| djszapi | well, that is different | 19:41 |
| djszapi | gri: any | 19:41 |
| djszapi | which is browsable further | 19:41 |
| gri | you mean that "more indicator" as second image? | 19:41 |
| gri | well | 19:42 |
| gri | you have to add that yourself | 19:42 |
| djszapi | pffff | 19:42 |
| djszapi | come on...it is so trivial stuff on this platform ... | 19:42 |
| gri | it's about two lines of code ... | 19:42 |
| djszapi | yes, that is what they could not implement, ssad | 19:43 |
| djszapi | sad* | 19:43 |
| gri | in the time you used for complaining you could have coded it 10 times :) | 19:43 |
| djszapi | imho it's been available in MTF since ever. | 19:43 |
| djszapi | you confuse me with a code-monkey. | 19:44 |
| djszapi | it is not about doing a hack in 2 ms, but improving something, more or less... | 19:44 |
| gri | you only complain about the fact that mtf and qt-components does not share the same architecture | 19:44 |
| djszapi | anyway, it is not even documented... so I will build my listview and probably send back to internals... | 19:44 |
| gri | things are named different, things work different ... | 19:45 |
| djszapi | that is sadly not true | 19:45 |
| djszapi | I wish it just worked differently...It works like a very small subset of MTF... | 19:46 |
| gri | then go for mtf :) | 19:46 |
| djszapi | already done ;) | 19:46 |
| djszapi | never ever touch this crap :) | 19:47 |
| vladest | but qmake for harmattan not in the path' how to run configure on windows for qt components in madde window? | 19:48 |
| gri | vladest: "mad list" | 19:48 |
| gri | "mad set <environment>" | 19:49 |
| gri | to set the default environment | 19:49 |
| vladest | gri done | 19:49 |
| gri | go into qt-components dir "mad configure.bat" I assume (no idea, only used scratchbox until now) | 19:49 |
| gri | or "mad dpkg-buildpackage" | 19:50 |
| djszapi | vladest: good advice. Please do not use cmake with madde | 19:50 |
| vladest | djszapi: i'm not | 19:51 |
| djszapi | keep that habit, horribly buggy. | 19:51 |
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| vladest | gri: ok, how to build it within scratchbox? | 19:53 |
| djszapi | https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/examples/meego/QmlComponentGallery/qml/ListPage.qml#line167 -> How can I check out the raw data ? | 19:53 |
| gri | download it, switch to armel and run "fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage" | 19:53 |
| gri | djszapi: top right "raw data blob"? | 19:54 |
| vladest | gri: scratchbox available only for windows? | 19:54 |
| gri | vladest: No | 19:54 |
| vladest | sorry, for linux? | 19:54 |
| djszapi | gri: that wanna download the file, not checking on the website... | 19:54 |
| gri | linux, yes | 19:54 |
| vladest | gri: only? | 19:54 |
| gri | vladest: I think si | 19:55 |
| gri | so | 19:55 |
| gri | djszapi: Well, open in text editor? | 19:55 |
| vladest | sucks, so only madde left | 19:55 |
| gri | vladest: virtualbox is for free | 19:55 |
| vladest | gri: I know... may be someone builds harmattan packages somewhere? | 19:56 |
| djszapi | vladest: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=28432 there was an alpha version for windows. You might wanna ask the authors | 19:56 |
| gri | even madde on windows is so damn slow that I only code inside a linux virtualbox image :) | 19:57 |
| * vladest just want latest qt components without bug in SelectionDialog | 19:57 | |
| djszapi | vladest: maybe you can build and use it in mingw on Windows ? | 19:57 |
| vladest | djszapi: I nedd this on device | 19:58 |
| gri | vladest: what bug in selectiondialog? | 19:58 |
| vladest | gri: bug about using c++ model | 19:58 |
| gri | more details ..?! | 19:59 |
| djszapi | vladest: sb on Mac: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Alternative_development_environments_Platform_SDK_user_guide_Integrating_Qt_Creator_with_Scratchbox_in_Mac_OS_X_environment.html?tab=2 | 19:59 |
| vladest | gri: http://meegoharmattandev.blogspot.com/2011/07/populating-selectiondialog-from-c.html | 19:59 |
| djszapi | it is a pity, gitorious does not allow raw file browsing. | 20:00 |
| djszapi | really painful to copy paste a snippet. | 20:00 |
| djszapi | I am getting such an error, if I try to use this ListDelegate: http://paste.kde.org/151040/ | 20:05 |
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| gri | what's on mainpage.qml:61 ? | 20:08 |
| djszapi | tomma: I claimed public documentation for it internally, and also a version which does contain the common drilldown arrow. | 20:08 |
| djszapi | gri: delegate: gameItemsDelegate; | 20:09 |
| djszapi | if you need the whole MainPage: http://paste.kde.org/151046/ | 20:09 |
| djszapi | also, ListDelegate will not work for the ListView's header anyway | 20:12 |
| djszapi | and I need the same feature in the header after all. | 20:12 |
| gri | djszapi: try to wrap the ListDelegate in a Component {} | 20:13 |
| djszapi | meh, ListDelegate does not respect the header... | 20:13 |
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| djszapi | it starts laying over that | 20:13 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK o/ | 20:13 |
| djszapi | gri meh | 20:13 |
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| gri | don't have this here, I use header and ListDelegate but no ListDelegate as header element | 20:14 |
| djszapi | me neither... | 20:14 |
| gri | https://gitorious.org/web2sms/web2sms/blobs/master/accountsetup/ProviderSelectionPage.qml = http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4691970/2011-11-16_18-22-00.png | 20:15 |
| gri | damn, this one: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4691970/2011-11-16_18-22-22.png | 20:16 |
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| djszapi | *facepalm* for gitorious not allowing raw data browsing :) | 20:17 |
| corecode | how do you do xmpp/jingle audio/video calls? i added the gabble/jabber account | 20:21 |
| djszapi | corecode: imho, jabber video does not work yet | 20:21 |
| djszapi | if I am not mistaken | 20:21 |
| djszapi | at least with PR 1.1 | 20:21 |
| corecode | hm | 20:21 |
| corecode | that's sad | 20:22 |
| corecode | why? | 20:22 |
| djszapi | because it is not implemented :) | 20:22 |
| djszapi | same with skype | 20:22 |
| corecode | and audio? | 20:23 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: ?? :) | 20:24 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: heya | 20:25 |
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| M4rtinK | djszapi: oh, hi :) | 20:26 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: I got a harmattan repository from kde -sysadmins :) | 20:27 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: c-obs suffer is over :) | 20:27 |
| djszapi | partially.. | 20:27 |
| djszapi | gri: ListDelegate seems to be a QObject, no real QDeclarativeComponent.. | 20:28 |
| djszapi | gri: which is the most appropriate support channel for the qt components bugs, btw, like #qt-qml ? | 20:29 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: so you are not pushing the packages through OBS any more, but through another build system ? | 20:30 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: yes, and no. | 20:30 |
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| djszapi | M4rtinK: I will publish the packages in there, if c-obs behaves weird | 20:31 |
| djszapi | so it is a fallback. | 20:31 |
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| djszapi | M4rtinK: so there is no such thing, as: "Ohh the community obs broke it again, and we are here without the proper packages". | 20:31 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: well yeah, you can just add two repository urls and it should work | 20:32 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: or you can just install one broken c-obs package by hand from there. | 20:33 |
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| djszapi | gri: try to put yoru ListDelegate separately. | 20:33 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: other than that, I would say such heavy usage of C-OBS you and the Mer projects provide is IMO pretty good for finding the root cause of all the various bugs :) | 20:33 |
| djszapi | lol | 20:34 |
| djszapi | well, mer is not harmattan target... | 20:34 |
| djszapi | sorry, it is... | 20:34 |
| djszapi | or well, I do not know. | 20:35 |
| M4rtinK | well, they "test" the non-target part of the infrastructure anyway :D | 20:35 |
| djszapi | obs is not that bad...the Harmattan target is the one creepy :) | 20:35 |
| M4rtinK | well yeah, it feels kinda hacked together | 20:36 |
| M4rtinK | IMHO it basically just the imported SDK | 20:36 |
| djszapi | not just that...the aegis usage is also weird (remember the spammy log...) | 20:37 |
| djszapi | and things like tied relation with meego.com for publishing (at least in the past) is also mysterious =) | 20:38 |
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| M4rtinK | go find that non-default Harmattan target X-Fade mentioned and fix it as an Aegis expert ! :) | 20:38 |
| M4rtinK | would really help with log verbosity BTW :) | 20:39 |
| djszapi | gri: the difference is that your model is in qml. In the meantime, my model is from C++ ... | 20:39 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: I did try, it is not trivial... | 20:39 |
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| M4rtinK | interesting ! nice to hear it is being worked on :) | 20:41 |
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| jonni | documented in here http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/doc/src/meego/extras/qt-components-listdelegate.qdoc | 20:50 |
| djszapi | ok, so it is easy to fix in the public SDK | 20:50 |
| djszapi | though, it is not much documentation | 20:51 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: BTW, why are you actually building all these KDE libs ? for some KDE-mobile subproject or similar ? | 20:54 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: because we love KDE. | 20:54 |
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| djszapi | M4rtinK: you might wanna read these pages: http://community.kde.org/KDE_Mobile/Harmattan - https://sprints.kde.org/sprint/61 | 20:56 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: http://fruct.org/sites/default/files/kde-mobile-laszlo-papp.pdf -> Here is my KDE Mobile talk from the near past. There are also some blogs here about kde mobile: http://lpapp.blogspot.com/ | 20:57 |
| M4rtinK | interesting ! so basically you take KDE applications and either adapt (or rewrite in QML) the desktop interfaces for mobile use ? | 21:01 |
| djszapi | that is the idea. | 21:01 |
| djszapi | see the 3rd slide of my presentation. | 21:02 |
| M4rtinK | and the output should be stand alone applications runnable on Harmattan ? | 21:02 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: looking at it right now | 21:03 |
| djszapi | yes, please check the slides. These questions are covered there :) | 21:03 |
| gri | djszapi: my model is a c++ one | 21:04 |
| gri | was having dinner, sorry :) | 21:04 |
| djszapi | gri: not really. | 21:05 |
| djszapi | or well, at least I have never used it that way | 21:05 |
| djszapi | {} confused me. | 21:06 |
| djszapi | sorry for that. Do you have an idea ? | 21:06 |
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| gri | djszapi: I have no idea why it fails for you, I'd just use delegate: ListDelegate {} and no external one - but that should not really make a different | 21:08 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: the KDE Mobile has been there for many years (since 2008 akademy) as you can see on the slides. There are two main focuses nowadays: 1) Plasma Active 2) Places where you cannot replace the workspace, or do not want to do that, like Harmattan, Android and so on. | 21:08 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: I am trying to take care of the second case altogether since the first use case is covered well by the Plasma team. | 21:08 |
| djszapi | gri: that is not possible | 21:09 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: what's the plan for distributing the standalone applications once they are done ? | 21:09 |
| djszapi | gri: since I change the delegates... | 21:09 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: read the wiki please :) | 21:09 |
| djszapi | I spent a decent time with that, and then a google code-in student to fix the English mistakes. I think it is in a pretty good shape by now. | 21:10 |
| gri | djszapi: You change it? Adding that more indicator is not really changing | 21:10 |
| djszapi | gri: I have two listdelegates... | 21:10 |
| djszapi | on purpose. | 21:10 |
| gri | ah, exchange :D | 21:10 |
| djszapi | swap, yes. | 21:11 |
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| djszapi | so it is not really an option to use an embedded one for me. | 21:11 |
| gri | ok moment I will try locally here to reproduce your case | 21:11 |
| djszapi | thanks. | 21:12 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: I will try to organize a KDE Android sprint in the beginning of the next year. Android dudes have been making a great job with the Qt port over there. | 21:12 |
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| gri | djszapi: You did not try my suggestion before | 21:19 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: any word about official Python bindings for the Android Qt port ? :) there is: http://thp.io/2011/pyside-android/ But something officially supported would be also nice. :) | 21:19 |
| gri | ListDelegate { id: myDelegate } ListView { delgate: myDelegate } produces the "model" not found error | 21:20 |
| djszapi | no real clue, sorry | 21:20 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: you can ask on the mailing list or on their irc channel | 21:20 |
| gri | Component { id: myDelegate; ListDelegate { } } ListView { delgate: myDelegate } <<-- works | 21:20 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: ok :) on a Android related note, a user recently managed to run my GTK+Python based navigation application on Android inside chroot, including working location :) | 21:22 |
| djszapi | gri: I did not try because I was distracted like on 5-6 channels :) | 21:22 |
| djszapi | but at any rate... that is really hackish | 21:23 |
| M4rtinK | it is reportedly faster that on N900 and only issue so far is with sound output :) | 21:23 |
| gri | not it is not hackish | 21:23 |
| gri | it's like described in the documentation | 21:23 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: I am actually working on a qtcreate alternative for android | 21:23 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: qtcreator does suck. | 21:23 |
| djszapi | gri: meh | 21:23 |
| thp | M4rtinK: pyside channel is #pyside; the android port is non-official, but if you have problems running it, ask me | 21:23 |
| djszapi | documentation writing does not make the crap god. | 21:23 |
| gri | ListDelegate {} instantiates a delegate | 21:24 |
| gri | but ListView wants a creatable component as delegate | 21:24 |
| djszapi | except that ListDelegate should be a component... | 21:24 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: so the problem is that with Android KDE, QtCreator is not gonna work. We need to find a different workflow. Madde will probably work though, but I would like to get sb work | 21:25 |
| gri | It's defined behavior. Your problem is only you don't know about that :) | 21:25 |
| djszapi | defined crap | 21:25 |
| gri | your pov :) | 21:25 |
| djszapi | ask any sane persons. | 21:25 |
| djszapi | doing a proxy component for ahcking around the limitations is architecturally broken | 21:26 |
| M4rtinK | thp: thanks ! :) I have my plate pretty full currently with Fremantle & Harmattan support but it is definitely nice to know there is another interesting platform to expand to in the future :) | 21:27 |
| gri | yeah, but you're using it different than the normal person would do | 21:27 |
| djszapi | and you are not really happy when there zillions of those hecks... | 21:27 |
| djszapi | what ? | 21:27 |
| djszapi | usinga ListDelegate for delegating the ListView is not "normal" ? | 21:27 |
| djszapi | sounds really funky :) | 21:27 |
| gri | if you use exactly one delegate, you can use delegate: NotAProxy {} | 21:27 |
| gri | it seems they designed it to use it like that | 21:28 |
| djszapi | which obviously sucks. | 21:28 |
| gri | if you use it different, create a component wrapper, yes | 21:28 |
| djszapi | in C++, I can switch the delegate anytime. | 21:28 |
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| djszapi | they made it crap. Hope they will fix it. | 21:28 |
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| gri | ... | 21:29 |
| Jare_ | has anyone found a way to configure which codecs and in what order they are used in sip? | 21:30 |
| djszapi | gri: also, no it does not work yet at all | 21:31 |
| djszapi | http://paste.kde.org/151082/ | 21:31 |
| gri | djszapi: Do you have a "title" and/or "subtitle" role? | 21:32 |
| djszapi | why would I have ? | 21:32 |
| gri | because that's required to use ListDelegate | 21:32 |
| djszapi | seems again something /really/ weird criteria from the undocumented ListDelegate. | 21:32 |
| djszapi | no, I will not mess up the backend under all the Uis, sorry that is no go. | 21:33 |
| djszapi | just because ListDelegate would like me to mess up the backend under every UIs existing out there. | 21:33 |
| gri | it's not messing up even though it's a bit annoying | 21:34 |
| djszapi | it is | 21:34 |
| djszapi | because I would need to add a completely useless role for the backend | 21:34 |
| djszapi | it should not really dictate what I would like to propose as a role. Moreover, it would be the freedom of the backend developers. | 21:35 |
| gri | well, that's easy to change but it's not done | 21:35 |
| gri | so either copy the ListDelegate if you don't like the role names and/or fix it on gitorious | 21:35 |
| djszapi | it is a completely useless element for the time being for my application so far. | 21:35 |
| gri | sure it would have made mor sense if they exposed a title and subtitle property and you can choose yourself which role you want to assign to which one | 21:36 |
| gri | more* | 21:36 |
| djszapi | remember, that is what I have been saying from the beginning when you screamed at me :) | 21:37 |
| djszapi | when I asked about title and subtitles...so that they are not exposed. Well, it is weird why it is this way. | 21:38 |
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| djszapi | I mean exposing those are 2 lines. | 21:40 |
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| djszapi | gri: do you know the ssh address of this repository ? | 21:44 |
| djszapi | I can see only the https and git | 21:44 |
| djszapi | should not take too long to test the patch | 21:44 |
| djszapi | actually I did it locally so it is just about the merge request | 21:45 |
| gri | You have to clone the repository and submit a merge request | 21:45 |
| djszapi | Yes, I know. However, I cannot push it without the ssh address which is the only available here. | 21:45 |
| djszapi | for cloning: Sorry, something went wrong | 21:46 |
| djszapi | Gitorious encountered an server error. We are automatically notified of errors and will look into it. If the error persists beyond what's reasonable, let us know. | 21:46 |
| djszapi | :D:D:D: | 21:46 |
| djszapi | just gitorious... | 21:46 |
| corecode | meh | 21:46 |
| gri | haha | 21:46 |
| corecode | so no messages/calls with gabble/jabber? | 21:47 |
| gri | well for your personal clone you'll receive the ssh address - if it works :) | 21:47 |
| corecode | or did i do something wrong? | 21:47 |
| gri | lazlo papp cloned so it looks like it worked :P | 21:48 |
| gri | +s | 21:48 |
| djszapi | gri: for the third try, yes | 21:48 |
| djszapi | also, note that my name contains an 's' :) | 21:48 |
| gri | I added +s :) | 21:49 |
| djszapi | nice, it works | 21:50 |
| djszapi | wanna test ? | 21:50 |
| gri | I believe it works without testing :) | 21:52 |
| djszapi | :) | 21:53 |
| corecode | no pr1.1 yet :/ | 21:54 |
| djszapi | gri: http://paste.kde.org/151094/ just gitorious ... | 21:56 |
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| djszapi | https, sorry... | 21:57 |
| gri | djszapi: You have to push to your clone | 21:57 |
| djszapi | why did it clone https for the ssh address in the first place ? o_o | 21:57 |
| djszapi | gri: yes, that was my intention | 21:57 |
| gri | vladest: Is the selectiondialog patched right now? or are you hoping for that? | 21:59 |
| gri | vladest: Since the one on my phone nearly looks the same than the one on gitorious ... no more ListModel {} inside | 22:00 |
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| gri | djszapi: I have to complain your changes | 22:02 |
| gri | you should name it title and subtitle again | 22:02 |
| gri | and assign default values to model.title and model.subtitle again | 22:03 |
| gri | otherwise old code won't be compatible | 22:03 |
| djszapi | they will do it :) | 22:03 |
| djszapi | I have no more time. | 22:03 |
| djszapi | also, gitorious merge request does not even show my patch | 22:04 |
| djszapi | I will not call it title by any means since it makes no sense | 22:04 |
| gri | it makes sense in my point of view | 22:05 |
| gri | https://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/merge_requests/1164 here is your request | 22:05 |
| djszapi | those are text properties | 22:05 |
| djszapi | that is not my request anymore :) | 22:05 |
| gri | ok :D | 22:05 |
| gri | why not submit a complete request? | 22:05 |
| djszapi | title did make no sense | 22:05 |
| djszapi | since everything is called text | 22:06 |
| djszapi | id, the property, and everything in similar cases really... | 22:06 |
| djszapi | even in MTF | 22:06 |
| djszapi | title was really a wrong terming. | 22:06 |
| djszapi | so this patch also fixes that | 22:06 |
| gri | dialogs have "titleText" | 22:06 |
| djszapi | http://paste.xinu.at/mJRAV/ | 22:06 |
| djszapi | this should fix it. | 22:06 |
| gri | no, 15 + 16 | 22:07 |
| djszapi | why not fix a complete patch ? | 22:07 |
| djszapi | because 22:06 | 22:07 |
| gri | replace ; with : | 22:07 |
| djszapi | and I am still at work | 22:07 |
| djszapi | no | 22:07 |
| djszapi | I mean not just that | 22:07 |
| djszapi | there is also another minor issue there. | 22:07 |
| djszapi | http://paste.xinu.at/bZtF/ | 22:07 |
| gri | that's ok | 22:08 |
| gri | but | 22:08 |
| gri | to be complete, expose the image, too | 22:08 |
| djszapi | good catch | 22:09 |
| djszapi | though, there was no complain about that | 22:09 |
| djszapi | so that is not a must have | 22:09 |
| djszapi | anyway, I need to leave soonish :) | 22:09 |
| gri | iconSource, not image :) | 22:10 |
| djszapi | yes, I understood clearly. | 22:10 |
| djszapi | ok, let me do it | 22:10 |
| djszapi | but I hope I can catch the last train :) | 22:10 |
| djszapi | I think I can use "icon" as a property term instead of iconSource | 22:11 |
| gri | iconSource makes it more clear that it's actually a path, not a pixmap itself | 22:12 |
| gri | but the merge request receiver will decide that :) | 22:12 |
| djszapi | no | 22:12 |
| djszapi | that is a heck | 22:12 |
| djszapi | you cannot assign an icon directly... | 22:12 |
| djszapi | that is how the Image component also works | 22:12 |
| djszapi | I do not really understand why they did this hack. | 22:13 |
| djszapi | actually icon source is even a worse term since it whispers the svg content for instance... | 22:13 |
| gri | Image {} has source as property | 22:13 |
| djszapi | iconPath would be clearer... | 22:13 |
| gri | so iconSource makes sense | 22:13 |
| djszapi | no | 22:13 |
| djszapi | just described why not... | 22:13 |
| djszapi | icon source is like the source of the icon, like svn xml content | 22:14 |
| djszapi | iconPath would be the clearest imho | 22:14 |
| gri | yeah, but since the qml Image element names it source | 22:14 |
| djszapi | yes, I know. | 22:14 |
| djszapi | I will make it work with iconSource | 22:14 |
| djszapi | since I do not have the sake for fighting with them | 22:14 |
| gri | otherwise it might confuse users | 22:14 |
| djszapi | but that makes no sense imho | 22:14 |
| djszapi | they already did :) | 22:15 |
| djszapi | from the beginning :) | 22:15 |
| djszapi | codeSource | 22:15 |
| djszapi | is it the code path ? | 22:15 |
| djszapi | not really... | 22:15 |
| gri | Loader {} also uses source | 22:16 |
| gri | so source seems to be the "path" term for qml | 22:16 |
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| djszapi | which is big mistake | 22:16 |
| djszapi | since Qt did not follow that terming at all | 22:16 |
| djszapi | so they kinda broke the consistency inside the Qt framework | 22:17 |
| djszapi | and Qt C++ did it cool imho... | 22:17 |
| gri | not really | 22:18 |
| gri | since qml uses network transparencity | 22:18 |
| djszapi | sorry ? | 22:18 |
| gri | and path sounds like "local file" | 22:18 |
| gri | and sources for qml Images and Loaders can also be urls | 22:18 |
| djszapi | have you ever heard about "remote path" ? | 22:19 |
| djszapi | path != local path only. | 22:19 |
| gri | maybe not for you :) | 22:19 |
| gri | but ok, qml is consistent in itself and qt also. I don't see what's the big problem about that | 22:20 |
| djszapi | because you do not use nowadays only one of them solely for Ui ? | 22:20 |
| djszapi | and it is inside the same framework ? | 22:20 |
| corecode | is there a way to force an ota update? | 22:21 |
| djszapi | it is like saying, I use different code in core, but different network | 22:21 |
| djszapi | this is not really the Qt way. Actually read the Qt Coding Style. | 22:21 |
| djszapi | that is written for the whole framework | 22:21 |
| djszapi | and read the Qt API Design guide. | 22:21 |
| djszapi | probably you missed that. | 22:21 |
| gri | wasn't qml made for "the ui can made by designers" and core is made by programmers? | 22:21 |
| gri | so it would be two worlds | 22:21 |
| djszapi | that is your speculation | 22:22 |
| djszapi | please read the Qt API Design guide... | 22:22 |
| djszapi | these things are written there I said.. | 22:22 |
| djszapi | if you do nto believe me... | 22:22 |
| gri | whatever, it's too late to change it, so you have to accept it | 22:23 |
| djszapi | qml does not even make sense alone regarding this | 22:23 |
| djszapi | since source is just plain wrong term | 22:23 |
| djszapi | Yes, I said I accept it, remember ? | 22:23 |
| gri | you also said you want to catch your train and still argue with me :P | 22:23 |
| djszapi | you bother me... | 22:24 |
| djszapi | bye | 22:24 |
| gri | good night | 22:24 |
| djszapi | last note: I think these incosistencies come from Brisbane, Australia | 22:24 |
| djszapi | who did not really contact with others. | 22:24 |
| djszapi | same phono stousame story with phonon and other things... | 22:24 |
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| djszapi | gri: I would still reject my patch since I did not write documentation | 23:08 |
| gri | You will or you would if you were the reviewer? | 23:08 |
| djszapi | both | 23:11 |
| gri | is there a mailing list for aegis? I'm really start to hate it because I have no idea why some things don't work as I expect ... | 23:12 |
| gri | starting to hate* | 23:12 |
| djszapi | there has been a mailing list for ages for aegis. | 23:13 |
| djszapi | though, I can assure you none of us cares about trolling "hating" mails. | 23:13 |
| gri | well I would not write that :) | 23:14 |
| djszapi | so you would lie ? | 23:14 |
| gri | it's only I copied the .aegis file of the youtube accounts plugin | 23:14 |
| gri | they do things I can't | 23:14 |
| gri | and I don't know if it's because my source is not "com.nokia.maemo" or something different | 23:14 |
| djszapi | meh | 23:15 |
| djszapi | I thought you got the point many months ago about it | 23:15 |
| djszapi | so it is just the fundamental entry point of the whole sec fw | 23:15 |
| gri | well, my program works as expected as long as I don't start it with invoker | 23:15 |
| djszapi | just read the log. | 23:15 |
| gri | but when starting via invoker, my credentials get lost | 23:16 |
| gri | so it's just about: how to get my credentials even when using the invoker | 23:16 |
| djszapi | sorry, but I have better things to do than aegis discussions :) | 23:16 |
| djszapi | it was almost never a good point in the past, so I would not like to discuss it anymore. | 23:16 |
| gri | it's not a rant about aegis, it's just a thing that's really missing in the docs | 23:17 |
| djszapi | did not matter how much I helped. | 23:17 |
| djszapi | no, it is actually not missing in the docs. | 23:17 |
| djszapi | it is just that you did not read carefully. | 23:18 |
| gri | well, then point me to where I should read it | 23:18 |
| djszapi | btw, anyway, I would like to stop the whole aegis help desk stuff | 23:18 |
| gri | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/aegis.html <- this does not help | 23:19 |
| gri | when my application starts with launcher, I receive some tokens I requested but not the ones that my package provides ... also my AID is missing | 23:19 |
| corecode | :/ NSU also doesn't have new versions? | 23:20 |
| jpwhiting | hmm, /me notices the Qt sdk now claims to contain targets for harmattan | 23:20 |
| jpwhiting | does that mean the windows sdk contains scratchbox and harmattan emulator? | 23:21 |
| djszapi | no | 23:21 |
| jpwhiting | or /simulator | 23:21 |
| jpwhiting | djszapi: so it doesn't have harmattan targets? | 23:22 |
| jpwhiting | or it just doesn't contain the simulator? | 23:22 |
| gri | there's no scratchbox for windows | 23:22 |
| djszapi | it does not contain sb, but it does have madde | 23:22 |
| jpwhiting | gri: yeah, that's what I thought | 23:22 |
| jpwhiting | djszapi: so can people develop for harmattan on windows? | 23:22 |
| djszapi | jpwhiting: for you, it should not matter | 23:22 |
| djszapi | ofc | 23:22 |
| djszapi | do you developer kde application or some other projects using cmake ? | 23:23 |
| djszapi | develop* | 23:23 |
| djszapi | if not, madde will work for you | 23:23 |
| djszapi | also qemu (emulator) should be available. | 23:23 |
| djszapi | same with simulator imho | 23:23 |
| jpwhiting | yes, I do, but I'll be helping engineers who only have windows machines do some harmattan lib | 23:23 |
| djszapi | you are out of the luck then | 23:23 |
| jpwhiting | so wondering if they will need a whole linux virtualbox or just the sdk | 23:23 |
| djszapi | madde will not work with cmake | 23:24 |
| djszapi | at least without serious hacks. | 23:24 |
| djszapi | cmake -> highly recommend sb | 23:24 |
| jpwhiting | ah, this is not using cmake, it's using probably regular makefiles, or autoconf or something | 23:24 |
| jpwhiting | my part of the project will use autoconf but I'll be on linux so can use sb just fine | 23:24 |
| djszapi | well, you said: "yes, I do" =) | 23:24 |
| jpwhiting | not sure what their lib uses to build with | 23:24 |
| djszapi | nah...you should not use sb | 23:25 |
| djszapi | if you are not a pro sb user. | 23:25 |
| djszapi | madde will epically fail for cmake, but if that is not the case: I would recommend MADDE | 23:25 |
| jpwhiting | guiding others to port a C++ library that already builds on iOS and android to Harmattan madde is adequate? | 23:25 |
| djszapi | depends on many factors | 23:26 |
| djszapi | for autoconf, it is. | 23:26 |
| jpwhiting | madde on windows I mean | 23:26 |
| jpwhiting | I see | 23:26 |
| djszapi | though QtCreator is seriously buggy | 23:26 |
| djszapi | but give a try and w | 23:26 |
| djszapi | you will see whether it fits to your needs. | 23:27 |
| jpwhiting | is madde only usable from within qt creator? the C++ library would not include any gui just a backend library | 23:27 |
| djszapi | I would not touch qtcreator since I do kde development | 23:27 |
| jpwhiting | uses sockets and such | 23:27 |
| djszapi | no, madde is just a backend underneath | 23:27 |
| jpwhiting | yeah, I don't have much experience with Qt creator either | 23:27 |
| djszapi | we used madde frm console during the KDE Harmattan sprint | 23:27 |
| jpwhiting | ah, qt sdk is Qt Creator? | 23:27 |
| jpwhiting | qt sdk for windows I mean | 23:27 |
| djszapi | probably | 23:28 |
| jpwhiting | ok, I'll give it a shot and see | 23:28 |
| djszapi | though, QtCreator bloeee :) | 23:28 |
| djszapi | we discussed with Aleix, we will implement madde support in KDevelop | 23:29 |
| djszapi | and since kdevelop has a good cmake support, it will rock more than this qtcreator thingie :) | 23:29 |
| gri | djszapi: Where is this aegis mailinglist? I seem to be too stupid to find it | 23:33 |
| gri | ah | 23:33 |
| gri | well, everytime I ask I find it | 23:33 |
| djszapi | gri: please do not bother me about aegis, thanks. | 23:34 |
| gri | djszapi: This is not bothering | 23:34 |
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