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| ZogG_laptop | it's sounds nice but wouldn't do it for wallpaper app even if it's code sometimes more complicated than even games | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| artemma | ZogG_laptop: why? | 00:03 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't know | 00:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | i wouldn't pay for it | 00:05 |
| artemma | without in-app purchasing I'd sell it for something like 1 euro | 00:05 |
| ZogG_laptop | i would buy nice game and not even coz of grafics but nice idea | 00:06 |
| artemma | it definitely should be less expensive than actually useful apps or good games | 00:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | and usefull apps | 00:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | i don't thinl i'll ever buy program with subscription payment though | 00:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | it's not about how money | 00:06 |
| artemma | about subscription, for now it is just an idea about trying it | 00:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | coz even 5 euro is cheap | 00:06 |
| ZogG_laptop | but the idea to pay for something maybe pretty but actually something you can do yourself even change wallpaper by dowloading pictures yourself | 00:07 |
| artemma | the idea is to charge for something good | 00:08 |
| artemma | and improving | 00:08 |
| artemma | I am not sure where I end up with | 00:08 |
| artemma | but the idea is to provide good search, tags, comments, scheduling, etc | 00:08 |
| artemma | maybe mixing with pics from your own gallery | 00:08 |
| artemma | clever caching against battery use, entertaining on every device unlock (and not jsut nce an hour) etc | 00:09 |
| artemma | just changing wallpaper once an hour may not be good enough for charging, ineed | 00:09 |
| artemma | indeed | 00:09 |
| ZogG_laptop | i just think utilities and that sort of apps should be opensource | 00:12 |
| apelete | ZogG_laptop: by opensource do you mean free ? | 00:13 |
| ZogG_laptop | no i mean opensource | 00:14 |
| apelete | I think I agree with that too | 00:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | and that mostly free by the way | 00:14 |
| ZogG_laptop | but i know developer needs to eat | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | so i see donation is good option | 00:15 |
| nix-cyrus | btw any korg emulator for N9? maybe I just don't know about it.. or there is only VMPK&FluidSynth? | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | think of world without linux / vim and so on | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | nix-cyrus: there is this guy on g+ who poerted pretty few emulators | 00:15 |
| ZogG_laptop | i think it's RST38h | 00:16 |
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| apelete | opensource does not mean free, I don't mind paying for software _if_ I have support (updates and help if I have trouble using it) _and_ it is actually useful | 00:16 |
| ZogG_laptop | agreed | 00:17 |
| apelete | but I see your point, we got here because it was free in the first place | 00:17 |
| M4rtinK | rzr: well, I plan to push the GTK package to a.fo.m, just to see what it does :) | 00:17 |
| M4rtinK | if it compiles, etc. | 00:17 |
| M4rtinK | there are still some issues though - virtual keyboard is not triggered, severely hampering usability on the N9 | 00:18 |
| M4rtinK | and a user reported that the dev packages don't work for some reason | 00:18 |
| ZogG_laptop | apelete: not only free but everyone can add and improve | 00:19 |
| apelete | but we (the linux community) will have to think about business models if we want to push free software writing further into daytime activity | 00:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | asterisk apache ngix | 00:19 |
| ZogG_laptop | i need to go as my battery is dying | 00:20 |
| ZogG_laptop | night | 00:20 |
| apelete | night | 00:20 |
| apelete | I'll be here from now on I think | 00:20 |
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| apelete | hope to see you next time :) | 00:21 |
| M4rtinK | rzr: I would also not mind porting some additional packages but all those esoteric build errors are getting a bit on my nerves :) | 00:21 |
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| npm | M4rtinK: would this help your GTK virtual keyboard issue: https://bugs.meego.com/show_bug.cgi?id=18619 | 00:47 |
| _MeeGoBot_ | Bug 18619 maj, Medium, ---, x2rich, RELE FIXED, Virtual Keyboard does not appear for GTK+ apps (meegotouch-inputmethodbridges) | 00:48 |
| npm | wow, meegobot is here too... cool | 00:48 |
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| thp | ok, so i came up with a crappy shell script instead | 00:50 |
| M4rtinK | npm: interesting ! | 00:50 |
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| M4rtinK | anybody knows if Harmattan uses meegotouch-inputmethodbridges or something else to handle text input ? | 00:52 |
| npm | even more fun is somewhere in there some simple qml frob to make the keyboard transparent (which it is on my meego 1.2 exopc tablet, along w/ Keyboard input for GTK+) | 00:52 |
| M4rtinK | also, the version I have packaged comes from Fremanlte and is quite ancient so the question is if this would work with it | 00:53 |
| npm | (unlike most people's exopc meego's that sucked mine actually works proper courtesy of http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo-Lem and a lot of hacking) | 00:53 |
| M4rtinK | isn't GTK+ in the MeeGo base actually ? | 00:53 |
| npm | yeah | 00:53 |
| npm | thus the bug if VKB don't work | 00:53 |
| npm | and apparently, i'm seeing meego bugs fixed, despite being dead, but i don't know where they end up | 00:54 |
| M4rtinK | it's quite funny that Harmattan is about the only platform without easily available GTK :D | 00:54 |
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| npm | but hey, at least intel offered a bailout to 4tiitoo after running them off the meego-cliff like lemmings :-) : http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news/4230637/Intel-launches--100-million-apps-fund | 00:57 |
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| M4rtinK | well, I would say the lesson of this debacle is | 01:01 |
| M4rtinK | to never trust an os/platform that is not developed transparently in the open | 01:01 |
| M4rtinK | internal bugtrackers, private emails, closed door meetings, hidden roles -> run for the hills :) | 01:02 |
| M4rtinK | at least Mer + Nemo seem to be progressing quite nicely this time | 01:02 |
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| * DocScrutinizer moans about confusion Nokia creates with 3.712 zillion firmware variants of 40-4 and each of those referenced by such nonsense like "variant black" "variant cyan" etc - WTF has color of case to do with firmware? | 01:42 | |
| DocScrutinizer | also both tmo and fmc threads are unbearable regarding the S/N and level of confusion spread as good advice there | 01:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | really, this is disgusting - makes me hate the device even though I don't need to flash right now | 01:44 |
| Milhouse | @DocScrutinizer: It's a policy Nokia have followed with coloured Symbian devices, no idea what relevance the colour has, unless of course some firmware came with different default themes to reflect the colour of the device (though I doubt it). | 01:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | not on N9 | 01:46 |
| Milhouse | Not to mention, most users are not meant to even see the different firmware "variants" as NSU should update devices automagically | 01:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | nfc what's NSU | 01:47 |
| Milhouse | Nokia Software Updater | 01:47 |
| gabriel9 | night | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | must ne a redmond crap related thing | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | be* | 01:47 |
| Milhouse | DocScrutinizer: Nope, pre-dates Feb11 | 01:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | so in which .deb can I find NSU? or is it a .rpm? | 01:48 |
| Milhouse | DocScrutinizer: For flashing? | 01:48 |
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| Milhouse | Ah, sorry. Yes, it's a Windows executable (I get your Redmond reference now) | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | halley:~ # zypper search for_flashing | 01:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | No packages found. | 01:49 |
| * DocScrutinizer wants to go back to 1971 and play with intel4004 | 01:51 | |
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| SpeedEvil | http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Intel-P4004-Vintage-Un-Used-Rare-1976-microprocessor-4004-D4004-/250929917728?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a6c96af20 | 01:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Some people may be slightly taking the piss. | 01:55 |
| SpeedEvil | http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-INTEL-GREY-TRACE-C4004-PROCESSOR-NEW-gp4004g-/120808095946?pt=UK_VintageComputing_RL&hash=item1c20b940ca | 01:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH | 01:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Holy shit: http://vimeo.com/32001208 | 01:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah - that's awesome. | 01:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | fsck vimeo | 01:59 |
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| DocScrutinizer | when a 3 y o browser doesn't show the page, or even segfaults (nokia's awesome site), I feel like going berserk | 02:01 |
| augustl | hmm, I haven't gotten any notifications about the OTA update yet on my N9.. | 02:02 |
| augustl | I've used developer mode a few times. It's disabled now. But perhaps that taints my phone to not receive automatic updates? | 02:02 |
| augustl | is there something I can do to check if my phone is updateable? And perhaps also force it to update now, instead of waiting for the OTA? | 02:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | go for the funny flashing game | 02:03 |
| Milhouse | DocScrutinizer: YouTube version if it helps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=430ykbW1zqA | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4728&page=9 http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79792&page=15 | 02:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | please read *the whole threads* to reach a state of perfect confusion | 02:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | my completely uneducated recommendation was to go for the NDT version for the correct storage size | 02:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | seems it's the genuine one | 02:06 |
| augustl | hmm | 02:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | some say you can flash to any sub-variant, even from branded to NDT | 02:07 |
| augustl | well that sucks | 02:09 |
| augustl | I bought an N9. They announced an update. I haven't got it. WTF | 02:10 |
| jabis | the update was held back after 001 region got bricked phones and such | 02:10 |
| jabis | augustl: ^ | 02:11 |
| jabis | not a succesfull OTA when so many angry customers - which rovio'll prolly turn into a new hit game x) | 02:12 |
| augustl | ah | 02:15 |
| augustl | why is Apple the only company in the universe with clear intentions and communications.. | 02:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | Milhouse: thanks | 02:16 |
| Milhouse | augustl: I believe it's because they have a plan. | 02:18 |
| augustl | I bet there's no information about the pulled update on nokia.com though | 02:18 |
| augustl | or that the update even exists :) | 02:18 |
| augustl | something like http://support.apple.com/kb/DL1472 would be nice | 02:19 |
| augustl | doesn't have to be as fancy as http://www.apple.com/ios/features.html :) | 02:20 |
| Milhouse | Although to be honest, Apple aren't perfect either. Look at the radio silence over their latest iPhone updates and the continued problems people are having. Impressive though how easy their update process is compared with Nokia, and that they can get it out globally to everyone all at once, none of this staggered bs you get with Nokia. | 02:21 |
| augustl | hmm, http://www.nokia.no/support/produktstotte/n9 says an update doesn't exist | 02:21 |
| augustl | so it's _mentioned_ even if the information is wrong/outdated | 02:21 |
| Milhouse | i like that url, seems quite appropriate... nokia.no/support | 02:21 |
| augustl | Milhouse: that's because apple love secrecy though | 02:21 |
| augustl | as soon as information is public it's trivial to find and obtain | 02:22 |
| jabis | augustl: some peeps mentioned that the UK site had NSU - still nothing on 001 region (northern europe) tho x) | 02:22 |
| jabis | one of the bigger problems I heard was that certain regions that were blocked from maemo.nokia.com harmattan repos, so when they needed to upgrade the rest of the (bundled) packages, they were getting 404 error (one reason more to flash it instead) | 02:24 |
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| npm | oh goody, VoiceToGoog is finally unblocked in china ( #51 China 1 ) | 03:52 |
| SpeedEvil | voicetogoog? | 03:53 |
| npm | my program | 03:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 03:53 |
| npm | http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/ | 03:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | unblocked? | 03:53 |
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| npm | yeah, it allowed voice search of youtube, which is blocked. | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | That looks neat. | 03:54 |
| npm | it is! | 03:54 |
| npm | try it | 03:54 |
| npm | contribute (GPL) | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Zigbee is annoying. | 03:54 |
| SpeedEvil | In that it's anti-GPL standard. | 03:54 |
| npm | to get unblocked, i did this: http://www.mail-archive.com/meego-dev@meego.com/msg10899.html | 03:55 |
| npm | even though i was told i needed a separate version for china, or rather that would be preferable | 03:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, blocked in ovi store? | 03:56 |
| npm | in the future, i want to do this http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/issues/detail?id=2 to allow for arbitrary programs to be launched | 03:56 |
| npm | DocScrutinizer: only for release 0.1.0 release 0.2.1 is available *everywhere* | 03:56 |
| npm | and has been DLd in 51 countries | 03:56 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 03:57 |
| SpeedEvil | How many downloads? | 03:57 |
| npm | 790 since Nov 4/5 | 03:57 |
| npm | other weird statistic | 03:58 |
| npm | #1 Unresolved 98.7 % | 03:58 |
| npm | #2 Nokia N9 1.1 % | 03:58 |
| npm | #3 Nokia N900 0.1 % | 03:58 |
| npm | how did they get it running on n900?? | 03:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Is unresolved n950? | 03:58 |
| npm | (pretty cool if they did... maybe i should just load up the deb and see ) | 03:59 |
| SpeedEvil | Or is it just broken? | 03:59 |
| npm | that's the other weird thing. | 03:59 |
| npm | i can't imagine theres 0.987 * 790 N950's out there | 03:59 |
| npm | and i'm curious to find out from people like thp how many DLs they get for progs like gpodder | 03:59 |
| npm | just so as to get an idea of how many devices are out there. (or maybe some other popular program in the "home" page) | 04:00 |
| SpeedEvil | you should have +1 on n950 now | 04:01 |
| npm | i'm sort of hoping it's "just broken" because it would be sad if nokia hadn't moved all those units as n9s | 04:01 |
| SpeedEvil | And it worked for my first test string. :) | 04:01 |
| npm | sweet! | 04:01 |
| npm | now you can switch languages and play it back in a funny foreign accent | 04:02 |
| npm | french, german, dutch are pretty funny | 04:02 |
| npm | as is chinese | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | In a way the app depresses me - though not because of the way it's coded or designed. | 04:02 |
| npm | how? | 04:02 |
| SpeedEvil | Simply that I can't have - most of 20 years after voice recognition sort-of-worked on the PC - similar software on my linux hardware. | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Some of which might be phones. | 04:03 |
| npm | you can | 04:03 |
| npm | voicetogoog runs on fedora | 04:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Sure - but it's just sending a wav to google. | 04:03 |
| npm | although i broke it recently and need to disable GPS stuff when there's no GPS hardware present | 04:03 |
| SpeedEvil | Which has obvious issues if there isn''t any internet. | 04:03 |
| npm | oh, you mean that voice rec isn't widely avail. | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | Yeah. | 04:04 |
| npm | goog's stuff is some of the best AI out there | 04:04 |
| npm | they have the top AI professors (some of mine) working there | 04:04 |
| SpeedEvil | The app is awesome, but for some things, more limited voice recognition - like I was using on dragon dictate in 1998 or so - would be just fine. | 04:04 |
| npm | and they seem to train it on porn :-) | 04:04 |
| npm | because whever it can't understand something, it comes out kinda filthy, or just says "new york" | 04:05 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:05 |
| * SpeedEvil imagines a horde of AI professors at keyboards with headphones. | 04:06 | |
| npm | actually, there's an online dragon that works quite nice, on the right platform. | 04:06 |
| npm | one of the things is that it seems to have "search result" and trending concepts "built in" so that you can say names and it gets the spelling correct a lot of the time | 04:07 |
| npm | and it is undoubtedly "learning" from what people are asking for in search | 04:07 |
| npm | i expect it to become fully aware one of these days :-) | 04:08 |
| SpeedEvil | npm: Initially - the 'localisation' button is blank. | 04:08 |
| npm | hmmm. what is your $LANG | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Neat app! | 04:09 |
| SpeedEvil | English-UK, I think | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Where would I find this in the UI | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | yeah | 04:10 |
| npm | what happens if you long-touch the localization button | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | settings->language | 04:10 |
| npm | does it still come up blank? | 04:10 |
| SpeedEvil | I got a list of flags, and I picked one, and now it shows last selected | 04:10 |
| npm | acutally, if you do the "about voicetogoog" menu entry and hit "ok" to compose mail to me...it'll print lang info. if you want to mail it to me that would help | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Actually - ... | 04:11 |
| npm | as in just let "about" create a mail draft and click "send" | 04:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - can do | 04:11 |
| npm | i should actually check that account to see if i've got mail. | 04:12 |
| npm | a few other tips (needs instruction manual) | 04:12 |
| npm | you can long-touch items in detail view and it'll play back the note | 04:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | MEH - Store: "problem on opening this page. Lost connection or connection too slow. Check connection settings and try later" | 04:12 |
| npm | multiple select items in order and hit play or speak and it'll play back in order, like a playlist | 04:12 |
| SpeedEvil | hmm | 04:13 |
| npm | go to map view while it's happening and you can watch your "track" as you said different things, w' the transcribed words poping up | 04:13 |
| npm | and you can toggle between map/detail by long-touching the menu | 04:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Annoying - I now hit the same issue I've hit before - it's not recognising my google mail account. | 04:13 |
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| npm | bleh. spoke too soon on china | 04:14 |
| npm | "Content failed in China because it contains a few options which China user can't access, such as "Youtube"." | 04:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Ok - mail away, I think. | 04:18 |
| npm | SpeedEvil: well unless you're an italian woman saying "vai a milano" , i haven't received that mail yet :-) | 04:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | this article can't get downloaded, please try again | 04:23 |
| npm | what are you dling? | 04:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | oooops | 04:23 |
| SpeedEvil | npm: Odd. It said it sent. | 04:24 |
| npm | well gmail could be taking its time | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | Ah | 04:26 |
| SpeedEvil | UI fail on the mail interface. | 04:27 |
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| SpeedEvil | Had to explicitly tell it to send. | 04:27 |
| npm | got it | 04:29 |
| npm | that should work. but maybe you found a bug (doh) | 04:30 |
| npm | let me try that | 04:30 |
| npm | SpeechLangModel#onCompleted(): system language 'en_GB' --> 'en-GB' ... file:///opt/voicetogoog/qml/voicetogoog/LangButton.qml:83: TypeError: Result of expression 'recognizerLanguageModel.get(recognizerLanguageModel.defaultIdx)' [undefined] is not an object. | 04:35 |
| npm | yep bug | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:35 |
| SpeedEvil | I need to select something else before I can select en_gb | 04:35 |
| npm | i was so busy testing all the other languages that i forgot the main language | 04:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | hihihi | 04:35 |
| npm | the weird thing is that on mine, it came up en_gb anywasy and worked. | 04:36 |
| npm | but the uninited var is the problem... well there's always the next version... will phaps be soon because of the china /youtube issue | 04:37 |
| npm | anybody have suggestions on making a *.pro and qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan/rules spit out two different .deb's with everything the same other than say one QML file | 04:38 |
| npm | i guess i have to have one for china and one for the rest of the world | 04:38 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 04:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | "Computer!" | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | "COMPUTER!" | 04:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | (stern voice) | 04:40 |
| npm | SpeedEvil: be happy to know that you've got the only language producing that bug | 04:41 |
| npm | env LANG="en_AU" /opt/voicetogoog/bin/voicetogoog | 04:41 |
| npm | works fine | 04:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | would it actually auto-trigger actions like searching in google? | 04:42 |
| npm | it's just the default language, i forgot to initiualize something | 04:42 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 04:42 |
| npm | not "auto" because it's not siri. | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | or do I have to select those from menu? | 04:42 |
| npm | but rather you say something and then decide what you want to do with it | 04:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 04:42 |
| npm | for one you can select multiple items and have those all become part of the "data" | 04:42 |
| npm | so for example you can have an introduction and different parts and include them in an email without having to redictate the entire thing each time | 04:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | "mouse... err touchscreen - how obsolete :-S" ;-P | 04:44 |
| npm | i'm not sure i like the idea of "siri" -- as it can't possibly understand language or intent. it just does some stupid pattern recotgnition | 04:44 |
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| npm | it is more geeky and "tool like" than siri | 04:44 |
| npm | plus you can't edit or select multiple items in siri. or plot utterances on a map, or see when/where you said it | 04:45 |
| SpeedEvil | Seen the siri hacks? | 04:46 |
| SpeedEvil | Does need a sig though | 04:46 |
| npm | a different app, perhaps using same infrastructure could be built to do "siri" like things | 04:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, as long as it allows me to create the formula for transparent aluminium with like 25 keypresses err screentouches, as Scotty did ;-D | 04:46 |
| npm | yeah seen the hacks for siri. perhaps in the future there could be multiple back-ends | 04:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I think I more want sth like a voice input to cmd line, so *I* decide what to do, not some AI | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | AlO2 | 04:48 |
| SpeedEvil | Job done. | 04:48 |
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| npm | DocScrutinizer: you can. just use voicetogoog, select what you want, do "copy selection to clipboard" and paste to your shell | 04:51 |
| npm | it even understands punctuation (e.g. "exclamation mark") and "smiley face" | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, I just need a macro for that | 04:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | I.E. all on one button, or even on speech input timeout | 04:52 |
| npm | so that it automatically put it in the clipboard as soon as you said it? | 04:52 |
| npm | i had that originally, but i found it annoying as it would erase stuff on the clipboard i needed | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, and then automatically copied into xterm | 04:52 |
| npm | just don't say "rm -rf /" :-() | 04:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure it has to be an optional alternative operation mode | 04:52 |
| npm | what i want to do at some point is make voicetogoog's underpinnings a "widget" | 04:53 |
| npm | so you can stick a little microphone icon on the VKB, or in your apps, and have it insert text like a keystroke | 04:53 |
| npm | was planning on adding it as a icon next to the search icon in http://nielsmayer.com/meego/qml/qmltube.xhtml | 04:55 |
| npm | and then not distributing that app in china :-) | 04:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's FOSS, no? | 04:56 |
| npm | GPL | 04:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | feel like getting my hands dirty :-D | 04:57 |
| npm | go to "about voicetogoog" and hit ok so it drafts me a mail and ask for source | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | hey, ok | 04:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 04:57 |
| npm | i'll put it up on http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/ at some point pretty soon. | 04:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | though I doubt this will work on this device, that has no mail account configured | 04:58 |
| npm | heh just send it to NielsMayer at gmail dot com | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: will do | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | sleep now | 04:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | n8 | 05:00 |
| npm | night | 05:00 |
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| iekku | morning | 07:29 |
| dm8tbr | mood groaning | 07:40 |
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| gabriel9 | morning | 08:10 |
| vsync_ | moarning | 08:10 |
| vsync_ | in the land of the harmattan, the beginning of this day seems cold | 08:11 |
| ieatlint | it's been cold since february, in fact | 08:34 |
| gabriel9 | it starts snowing | 08:37 |
| Tronic | Seems warmer than yesterday. | 08:40 |
| Tronic | Already plus 1.5 °C in Espoo. It was below zero same time yesterday. | 08:40 |
| ieatlint | sounds like a lovely country | 08:40 |
| ieatlint | was 21c here today | 08:41 |
| Tronic | Pff. | 08:41 |
| * Tronic gets his coat (the warm one). | 08:41 | |
| RST38h | ieatlint: it is winter where you are isn't it? | 08:41 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: not till december? | 08:42 |
| ieatlint | i'm in the northern hemisphere if that's what you're asking | 08:42 |
| * ieatlint is in california | 08:42 | |
| RST38h | ah, California... ok | 08:43 |
| RST38h | No seasons there. | 08:43 |
| ieatlint | true... small price to pay | 08:43 |
| ieatlint | although we do get a lot of snow in the winter in the mountains | 08:43 |
| gabriel9 | snow is nice | 08:44 |
| gabriel9 | i buyed snowboard | 08:44 |
| gabriel9 | can't wait to try it | 08:44 |
| ieatlint | was always a skier myself | 08:45 |
| gabriel9 | it is the same in a way | 08:48 |
| gabriel9 | you climb on the hill | 08:48 |
| gabriel9 | and then slide :) | 08:48 |
| ieatlint | bah, climb... we have machines for that | 08:48 |
| djszapi | X-Fade morning, could you manage the system-services package ? | 08:51 |
| gabriel9 | yea, and then we will use machines for sliding | 08:51 |
| gabriel9 | this year i climbed one one mountain | 08:51 |
| gabriel9 | and it was great | 08:51 |
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| gabriel9 | 5h of climbing | 08:52 |
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| ieatlint | i love hiking | 08:59 |
| ieatlint | passion of mine really | 08:59 |
| ieatlint | california is a great place for it.. have done hikes that have gained 700m in elevation, and a hike once that begin at 2.8k, went up to 3.2k, and then down to 2k in elevation... fun :P | 09:01 |
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| elpuri | ieatlint: same here | 09:48 |
| elpuri | and i'm likely relocating to california in jan | 09:49 |
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| elpuri | any tips on good trails?-) | 09:49 |
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| ieatlint | depends on where in california you're going | 09:57 |
| elpuri | bay area but i'm willing to drive 3-4h for good climbs | 10:01 |
| ieatlint | sounds like we'll need to talk :) | 10:02 |
| * ieatlint was born and raised in the bay area | 10:02 | |
| RST38h | ieatlint: -5c, http://http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/4711/62998818.ee/0_848d7_1f1755fc_orig | 10:02 |
| ieatlint | where's that? | 10:03 |
| RST38h | Next time I hear about +21c, going to kill that kitten and put a vide on Youtube! | 10:03 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: Moscow, last evening | 10:03 |
| mece | It's +5C here. Almost summer. | 10:03 |
| ieatlint | i got lucky... not only did i grow up in a place that didn't know the word "winter", but the silicon valley was at my doorstep | 10:05 |
| mece | was -5C during the night tho. | 10:05 |
| mece | Cold weather makes you really appreciate the warm tho. | 10:05 |
| mece | : | 10:05 |
| mece | ) | 10:05 |
| djszapi | warm is for weaks :) | 10:06 |
| mece | djszapi, haha exactly | 10:06 |
| ieatlint | haha, i'll enjoy my weakness then by putting on a t-shirt and going for a walk | 10:08 |
| mece | ieatlint, I wear t-shirts all year round | 10:09 |
| ieatlint | outside? | 10:09 |
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| djszapi | morning aheinecke | 10:11 |
| aheinecke | morning djszapi and no i did not look further into the soprano problem *blush* ;) | 10:11 |
| ieatlint | alright, i'm off to bed... have this annoying recurring group of people who insist i show up at specific times in exchange for monies | 10:12 |
| djszapi | aheinecke: there are news | 10:12 |
| mece | ieatlint, depends on what I'm doing :) | 10:12 |
| djszapi | aheinecke: btw, what I wanted to ask: could you manage the accommodation in the same hotel for the KDE Harmattan sprint ? | 10:12 |
| aheinecke | yes i'm also booked there | 10:12 |
| mece | ieatlint, if I'm just walking less than a block I'll just wear a t-shirt. | 10:12 |
| djszapi | aheinecke: nice, also the social event will be on Friday evening, not Sunday | 10:13 |
| mece | ieatlint, unless it's raining or snowing wet snow. | 10:13 |
| djszapi | just making sure you attend to the sprint already on Friday. | 10:13 |
| ieatlint | haha | 10:13 |
| ieatlint | well, i'll buy anyone who shows up to dev days in sf a drink :) | 10:13 |
| mece | ieatlint, dry snow is not so bad. Wind and wet snow requires a jacket :) | 10:13 |
| aheinecke | djszapi: yes i'll be arriving at 11:50 or so at berlin hbf so i should be at the sprint location some time after | 10:14 |
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| djszapi | aheinecke: meh, I figured out the soprano issue ... | 10:26 |
| djszapi | X-Fade: found it .... | 10:27 |
| aheinecke | djszapi: so what was it? | 10:31 |
| djszapi | cmake version.. | 10:34 |
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| djszapi | aheinecke: I asked the responsible persons for the SDK 4 months ago to update the cmake version. They did not do it .. | 10:54 |
| djszapi | it should have already been there in PR 1.0 | 10:54 |
| aheinecke | still nasty that soprano does not have the required version, can you fix this upstream in soprano? | 10:55 |
| djszapi | aheinecke: even if we can, no chance to get a release. | 10:55 |
| djszapi | aheinecke: only thing we can do for now is to have a debian packaging patch | 10:55 |
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| qronic | I have to say that messing with ld.so.preload on boot, you can't win time before aegis is sealed | 11:01 |
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| lardman|home | morning all | 12:01 |
| lardman|home | anyone managed to get video from the camera working in QML? | 12:01 |
| lardman|home | I get this: virtual GstElement* QGstreamerGLTextureRenderer::videoSink() : Fallback to QVideoSurfaceGstSink since EGLImageTextureHandle is not supported | 12:02 |
| xarcass | lardman|home: I hope, you have already set up aegis manifest | 12:03 |
| lardman|home | and the camera is active, as when I kill my app I hear the click of it switching off. No visible output though | 12:03 |
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| djszapi | lardman|home: do you use high-level API, like multimedia kit ? | 12:03 |
| djszapi | or raw device access ? | 12:03 |
| lardman|home | xarcass: yeah, I added these: GRP::video and GRP::pulse-access | 12:03 |
| xarcass | lardman|home: there was a thread on the forum.meego.com about Video element and Camera element, can't remember exactly, but there was some clashing | 12:04 |
| djszapi | lardman|home: if you use high-level qt interface, you should really never add those credentials. | 12:04 |
| djszapi | otherwise do not be surprised if OVI blocks your app for obvious reasons. | 12:04 |
| lardman|home | djszapi: bit of both... QAbstractVideoSurface | 12:04 |
| xarcass | djszapi: it wasn't working without them. at least in beta fw | 12:04 |
| djszapi | lardman|home: that is a qt multimedia class, so you should remove those credentials. | 12:05 |
| lardman|home | Is there an exampe code somewhere that actually works? I don't want to take photos (there's lots of qml camera examples), but need to grab video frames | 12:05 |
| djszapi | since qtmultimedia does the boiler plate for you. | 12:05 |
| lardman|home | djszapi: ok, I get the same message without them | 12:05 |
| djszapi | exactly, you do not need those | 12:06 |
| lardman|home | I have the same error no matter what's in the manifest | 12:06 |
| djszapi | yes, it is not manifest at all as you can see from the fallback message. | 12:06 |
| lardman|home | yeah, well the message doesn't look like a failure, just a fallback | 12:06 |
| lardman|home | so I wonder if it's a rendering issue as the camera seems to be active | 12:07 |
| xarcass | lardman|home: have you got Video and Camera QML elements instantiated in your app? this might be an issue | 12:07 |
| lardman|home | xarcass: nope | 12:07 |
| lardman|home | I'm basing loosely on alterego's code here: https://gitorious.org/tswindell/barcode-reader-plugin | 12:07 |
| lardman|home | I guess I should look at how the qml camera component works and hack at that | 12:08 |
| lardman|home | intercept the viewfinder frames | 12:08 |
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| xarcass | lardman|home: looks pretty low-level for me. i thought that's an QML issue. i'm giving up | 12:09 |
| lardman|home | xarcass: np, I'll add some debugging output and see if it's a rendering problem or not | 12:10 |
| djszapi | lardman|home: send me your workhorse, and I can send it to the camera guys, if you wish. | 12:10 |
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| lardman|home | djszapi: sure, I'll do a bit more hacking then push to svn | 12:11 |
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| lardman|home | thanks both of you, will report back in a bit | 12:12 |
| * lardman|home must give baby back to hiswife and head to work | 12:12 | |
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| * djszapi is updating cmake.. | 12:19 | |
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| razvanpetru | did aegis get more restrictive? I remember being able to delete stuff in /home/dev as root... | 13:24 |
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| djszapi | yes, it got. | 13:25 |
| Termana | aegis get more restrictive? Imagine that... | 13:25 |
| KRF | heh | 13:29 |
| nid0 | is there any way to track down reliably what an n9 app list icon is for? I seem to have had one randomly appear that has no text, cant be directly deleted, and does nothing | 13:30 |
| nid0 | usr/share/applications/ doesnt immediately seem to have any obviously out-of-place .desktop files that could be associated with it | 13:30 |
| qronic | you can also check /home/user/.local/share/applications/ | 13:32 |
| nid0 | yeah nothing obvious there either :\ | 13:33 |
| nid0 | the icon in the app list is totally different to all the others, it doesnt even shade when clicked, it just does nothing whatsoever | 13:34 |
| djszapi | sorry, but what installed that icon ? | 13:35 |
| nid0 | I have no idea, I just noticed it there yesterday morning. It wasnt there the middle of the day previously, all I knowingly did between them was install a couple of pieces of software from ovi (which had their own correct working icons and which i've since removed) and updated the appsformeego client | 13:36 |
| nid0 | the icon itself is a white squircle with a black background, and a white down arrow inside the squircle with a horizontal white line under it | 13:37 |
| djszapi | you have the first step. Figure out what installs that ... | 13:37 |
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| razvanpetru | maybe it's malware | 13:53 |
| Hq` | the icon comes with appsformeego client | 13:54 |
| Hq` | no idea what it is for | 13:54 |
| Corsac | I guess it's the one click installer, but aiui it shouldn't be displayed | 13:56 |
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| Corsac | http://paste.debian.net/145752/ is the desktop file content | 13:57 |
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| macmaN | sup folkities | 13:59 |
| macmaN | is there a thorough description somewhere on what the harmattan power saver mode exactly does behavior wise | 14:00 |
| macmaN | i think my main interest is background connections off vs power saver + background connections on | 14:00 |
| macmaN | power saver effectively seems to disable bg conns | 14:01 |
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| gabriel9 | is there any way to backup my os(navifirm, firmware) from N9? | 14:21 |
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| gabriel9 | i see that there is a way to install new | 14:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | macmaN: yes, in N9 local manual there is some description | 15:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, de_DE locale, so I'll translate as good as I can ;-D >>ACTIVATION OF POWER SAVER \ Forgot your charger? Activate power saver mode to extend remaining talk- and standby-time. You also can configure [...] [bla] automatically [blah] when batery low. [**now**:] In power saver mode: \ the phone does not at all or less frequently search for available WLAN networks \ unused connections get disconnected \ display brightness is reduced<< | 15:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | HTH | 15:54 |
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| macmaN | yeah, i read the n9 i screen about it | 16:16 |
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| macmaN | it doesnt go deep enough re background connections, there seems to be some sort of a war between those two | 16:17 |
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| macmaN | which doesnt get reflected in the ui in a sensible way. trying to find out for sure if im understanding this correctly. | 16:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | err, it seems pretty clear to me | 16:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | allow background connections is about setting up / keeping connections without user interaction triggering them, no? And power save mode is about *closing* background connections as soon as they aren't used anymore, I.E. when no more traffic | 16:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so the one is about allowing to establish a connection, while the other cares about closing it as soon as possible rather than keeping it up | 16:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | my take on it | 16:59 |
| macmaN | yeah doc, i agrees. yet in the UI they are both enabled at the same time. but for example device brightness gets hidden when you activate it. it feels like background connections toggle should also get hidden. | 17:00 |
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| macmaN | but it doesnt, which creates the "so i keep wondering what is the most optimal battery/usability compromise" lingering thought in my way | 17:01 |
| macmaN | and also wonder whether being able to enable them both simultaneously is an oversight, rather than by design | 17:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB for GPRS it probably doesn't really work as advertised. I guess they still won't tear down GPRS login at all, just remove the default route and the GPRS network interface. From a device borne app POV that's almost the same, from a power savings POV you usually don't want to tear down GPRS login as the mere login doesn't eat much power at all (a lean ~3mA on N900 iirc) while it's actually the particular data TX bytes that ramps up the | 17:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | RF transmitter and thus cuts thru your battery much like a phonecall does. On a more general view if your carrier does nasty then your phone still may receive inbound data packets as long as logged in to GPRS APN, and those will need TX ramped up to NAK them, even when local network IF is down | 17:05 |
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| DocScrutinizer | macmaN: nah, enabling both makes perfect sense | 17:06 |
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| macmaN | i fail to see how, considering how background connections simply do not activate at all | 17:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | modulo the concerns about not *really* tearing down GPRS login | 17:07 |
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| macmaN | oh, i should probably also mention | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh, so you say "power saving mode" blocks establishing background connections all together? | 17:08 |
| macmaN | that i am referring to power saving mode = On, *not* %-based "Auto" activation mode | 17:08 |
| macmaN | yes exactly | 17:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | gathered as much, yeah | 17:08 |
| macmaN | i can see how having both enabled makes sense in Auto mode, since you are able to use bgc until Auto kicks in | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | now that's a bug then, as this is not what the help text says how PSM is suuposed to work | 17:09 |
| macmaN | but if psav is on 100% of the time, bgc dont come on *at all* | 17:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a bug | 17:09 |
| macmaN | i guess i should put that fancy schmancy new harmattan bug tracker to good use | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | >>unused connections get disconnected << | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | it clearly doesn't say >>background connections are blocked<< | 17:10 |
| macmaN | except actually i noticed that none of the apps are even able to trigger a connection | 17:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's a bug | 17:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, I need to readup for the definition of "background connection" | 17:11 |
| flux | so is it a bug in functionality or user interface? | 17:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | AIUI it should allow background connection getting established, in PSM | 17:12 |
| flux | macman, oh you mean applications you are explicitly running? | 17:12 |
| macmaN | flux: yes | 17:12 |
| flux | foreground connections have worked for me in PSM | 17:12 |
| flux | if those don't work, then indeed it sounds like a bug | 17:12 |
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| flux | I've only used the automatically triggered PSM | 17:12 |
| macmaN | flux: yes, they have for me too when i used it in Auto mode | 17:12 |
| macmaN | i just started trying On today | 17:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | shouldn't make a difference | 17:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | NB PSM also does >>not at all or less frequently search for available WLAN networks << and >>reduce display brightness<< (that's why brightness control slider vanishes) | 17:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what *is* a "background connection" ? | 17:15 |
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| macmaN | whatever it is, it is the only thing that allows gps to work normally for me | 17:16 |
| macmaN | using foreground connections for gps based apps simply doesnt get any of the network help capability for location fix | 17:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha, the "(I)" at internet->background-connection is pretty fuzzy and sounds exactly like PSM | 17:17 |
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| DocScrutinizer | though the helptext is pretty unclear and fuzzy, it seems to me "allow background connections" basically means that non-interactive tasks like scheduled mail polling are allowed to establish a connection | 17:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | but that'S only one of the 3 different implicit definitions on how this background-conn option works, in this one help-text page | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's just the one def that makes most sense to me | 17:21 |
| macmaN | all i can say is that bgc enabled = wifi on all the time | 17:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, that's obvious | 17:23 |
| macmaN | dunno, is it? | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | err no | 17:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry | 17:23 |
| macmaN | i would expect bgc to mean that wifi gets triggered on and off | 17:23 |
| macmaN | whenever a polling cycle occurs | 17:23 |
| macmaN | instead, it just stays on | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | it's plausible it stays on if you got an app that does "background" data traffic all the time | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 17:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's exactly how I read it as well | 17:24 |
| macmaN | right. except there shouldnt be such an app. aside from messaging accounts, which i have offline. | 17:25 |
| macmaN | that just leaves the news feed. | 17:25 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, no (damn confusing stuff), it shall shut down between poll cycles **if PSM enabled** | 17:25 |
| razvanpetru | background connection = always connected | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 17:26 |
| razvanpetru | and no background connection = never connected :p | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | no | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | bce == allow to *establish* new connection when needed | 17:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | psm == tear down bc when not used anymore | 17:27 |
| razvanpetru | from observing the thing, I have no idea how it works, barely got it to work reasonably... | 17:27 |
| razvanpetru | and still, I have to manually connect to wifi, otherwise it's always connected to it | 17:27 |
| macmaN | the first is actually the behavior with bgc disabled :) | 17:27 |
| Corsac | note that connection in this case means the IP connection (wether wireless or gsm/3G), not the tcp/udp one made by an application | 17:28 |
| Corsac | aiui | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | the fist? | 17:28 |
| razvanpetru | well anyway, I'm happy to see that powersaver actually does something | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | Corsac: sure | 17:28 |
| Corsac | but on top of that you can set connections to automatic or not | 17:28 |
| razvanpetru | I wonder if it lowers brightness below the 20% of the settings slider which seems to be ineffective | 17:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | the first?, even | 17:28 |
| Corsac | so if there's no connection set to automatic and BC are enabled, it'll popup a message each time, I guess | 17:28 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: first = bce == allow to *establish* new connection when needed | 17:29 |
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| macmaN | ahh no nm, i mixed foreground vs bgc | 17:29 |
| macmaN | somebody should draw a fricking block diagram about this | 17:30 |
| macmaN | or a state diagram rather | 17:30 |
| razvanpetru | that's what I was thinking :) | 17:30 |
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| macmaN | seriously, i need to kick fricking wordpress to the curb and install trac as my primary outside world communication platform | 17:31 |
| macmaN | wiki knowledge base, world accessible bug tracking, wiki diagram plugins, good wiki syntax for writing good content | 17:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw the (I) suggests background connection means "new connection to establish while screen locked" | 17:32 |
| macmaN | non-relation to that can be verified by just switching bgc on, and witnessing how connection is immediately triggered while your screen is still unlocked | 17:34 |
| macmaN | i doubt it waits for any actual app activity whatsoever | 17:34 |
| macmaN | network activity* | 17:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | unless we read the source text (which isn't available I guess) we will never know for sure what it's actually doing | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-/ | 17:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Nokia's helptext is confusing rather than helping | 17:37 |
| macmaN | im sure if a well written blog post style query was posted somewhere, perhaps we could persuade djzsapi or someone to dig some information up | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 17:38 |
| macmaN | it shouldnt probably be a government secret type info | 17:38 |
| macmaN | :> | 17:38 |
| macmaN | yeah yeah i know, no need to comment further | 17:38 |
| macmaN | i still have hope | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, but it would need both insight into the actually implemented algo as well as a willingness to write a clear crisp explanation of what it does and how it works | 17:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd raher hope for somebody like jonwil REing the whole mess with strace/gdb to a degree so we clearly see what's checked for and when it does what, rather than a better explanation coming from Nokia. Unless there's real public demand and complaints coming in via customer care | 17:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | posting a terse precise list of questions that are not answered in helptext might actually help to make Nokia move and publish some augmented explanation somewhere. This list should probably have points like >> a) what exactly is a background connection? \n b) what exactly will "enable background connections" change regarding behaviour? ..." | 17:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | c) what will power saving mode active change regarding behaviour related to internet connections? and how does this differ from the behavior changes introduced by "enable background connections"? | 17:49 |
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| DocScrutinizer | btw there are TWO "allow background connections" options, one in "internet" and one in "mobile (GSM)" | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | people say they control the same flag, from two different places | 17:53 |
| razvanpetru | yeah, I noticed that | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHAHA and they are both the same | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | mgedmin: yes, they actually do | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | now THAT is puzzling insane | 17:54 |
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| djszapi | aheinecke: I will package git master HEAD soprano | 17:55 |
| djszapi | the missing cmake modules are committed there. | 17:55 |
| djszapi | that is our shelter for now =) | 17:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | and it even more convinces me that GPRS login is kept up even when ifconfig gprs0 down | 17:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | well, one bug for sure: bgc:disabled, psm:enabled, all apps on device closed, no ssh connection to devie via WLAN -> still WLAN connection stays up | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh wow, it disconnected | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | so no bug, but expected behaviour, just I wasn't patient enough :-D | 18:14 |
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| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: ?o/ long time no see | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ even | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hi! | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | meh, alas it doesn't even connect now to WLAN when I open browser and try to surf some URL | 18:16 |
| javispedro | HI | 18:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | it simply "hangs" with a progress bar like 5% | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | now comes up with "can't open page" error msg | 18:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hmm wlan fsckd up on device, doesn't list any APs | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | now THIS seems to be a veritable bug | 18:19 |
| macmaN | doc ive seen that | 18:21 |
| macmaN | no progress browser | 18:21 |
| macmaN | but on a side note: is there some sftp client ui available yet | 18:21 |
| djszapi | X-Fade ping | 18:23 |
| SpeedEvil | I suppose you're gonna say that the command line doesn't count? | 18:23 |
| djszapi | X-Fade is that expected I have a package for scheduling for more than 10 minutes, but not building ? There are no workers by me working on any packages. | 18:23 |
| djszapi | X-Fade https://build.pub.meego.com/project/show?project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | macmaN: the missing 26 AP SSIDs in network listing are the true bug symptom | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | wlan chip or driver fsckd up | 18:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | reboot :-S | 18:24 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: do you have an idea or/and experience for that ? ^ | 18:27 |
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| M4rtinK | djszapi: I'm used to packages "updating" for hours, until they finally time out | 18:31 |
| M4rtinK | not sure about "sheduled" but might be a similar issue | 18:31 |
| djszapi | it got further. There was about 20 minutes out-time. | 18:32 |
| djszapi | "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" is spammy :p | 18:32 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: re some more bgc fun, pending image sharing transfers will never start until you enable bgc | 18:33 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: in case it gets stuck: osc abortbuild [OPTS] PROJECT [PACKAGE] Options :) | 18:33 |
| macmaN | you can manually connect all you want, that doesnt phase the transfer queue one bit | 18:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually according to syslog it seems ICD2 makes kernel unload wl1273 module, and subsequently no loading of internetconnection-ui applet or whatever will re-load it | 18:34 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: yep, I know. | 18:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh ell, reboot time | 18:35 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: well on n900 unloading the kernel module with wifi switcher made a huge difference for battery life | 18:35 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: there is actually even a ui web interface opportunity for aborting | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | mhm, so what? | 18:35 |
| macmaN | nothing. just a probably useless remark of what i know about that. | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes, you're right, this is how fremantle managed wlan | 18:36 |
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| M4rtinK | djszapi: I have encountered some cases where the stuck package won't react on the web ui and needs to be killed with osc - but that was before the OBS update so it might be fixed now | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | and I guess HARM does same, just it "forgets" to load the module when you need it for establishing a WLAN connection, after bgc:disabled+psn:enabled unloaded it | 18:37 |
| djszapi | fixed by now | 18:39 |
| M4rtinK | oh, good to know :) | 18:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WOW | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nov 16 11:51:05 (2011) kernel: [414417.953002] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x0 | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nov 16 11:51:05 (2011) kernel: [414417.955657] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0x4, addr8 0x60 | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nov 16 11:51:05 (2011) kernel: [414417.956756] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x0 | 18:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hmm, incidence? -> | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nov 16 14:54:36 (2011) kernel: [425429.064514] onenand_wait: correctable ECC error = 0x0001, addr1 0xa, addr8 0x0 | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | Nov 16 14:54:36 (2011) mce[551]: mce-io.c:mce_close_file(): Failed to close `/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-004b/wait_for_gesture'; Device or resource busy | 18:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | here's what it did for bgc:disabled,psm:enabled after I cloed my ssh connection and waited for some 60s: http://paste.debian.net/145796/ | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | and actually that's same as above, plus the failing search for a new internet connection when I started browser: http://paste.debian.net/145799/ | 18:50 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, I also have several of those correctable ECC errors, always error=0x0100 addr1=0x4 addr8=0xac | 18:52 |
| javispedro | they persist after a reflash | 18:53 |
| javispedro | and most interestingly, some aegis activities trigger it | 18:53 |
| SpeedEvil | ECC errors are expected, and normal. | 18:53 |
| Corsac | as long as they are indeed correctable | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - yes. | 18:54 |
| javispedro | SpeedEvil, _always_ on the same address, even after a reflash? | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | The hardware page is the one with errors. | 18:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | A certain sub set of pages will have correctable errrors. | 18:54 |
| SpeedEvil | As time gos on, some of those pages will worsen until they are no longer correctable, at whcih time they are retired. | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | should get marked "bad block" on next flashing | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | no? | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | No. | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | There is a 'good' correctable error threshold. | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | You're only guaranteed the first block has no errors. | 18:55 |
| SpeedEvil | The rest of the device is specced as 'will have a capacity of over X after 10000 writes, including correctible errors' | 18:56 |
| SpeedEvil | Or similar. | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, anyway, oneNand supposed to hold swap only? | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | (besides kernel, CAL, other immutable stuff) | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | (first block) actually I think it's one out of 4 first blocks | 18:57 |
| javispedro | this is the reason I can trigger it when doing aegis-y stuff | 18:57 |
| javispedro | (such as, installing a package) | 18:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Possibly 4, yes, I was quoting from the one in the n900 | 18:58 |
| djszapi | M4rtinK: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/show?package=soprano&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan ;-) | 19:11 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: congratulations ! :D | 19:12 |
| djszapi | was a hard born :) | 19:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, FYI re background connection/poser-save-mode: I allowed background connections, enabled PSM, while logged in ssh via WLAN. Result: immediate tear down of WLAN. Starting browser and opening the "news about N9" URL re-established WLAN, ssh session still ok and working after that. locked screen with browser open -> no WLAN tear down for 5 min. Closed browser -> immediate teardown of WLAN. So CONCLUSION: a browser connection is stable | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | against PSM teardown, while a ssh login doesn't matter at all, when bgc:ena/PSM:ena | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | poWer-save-mode* | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | all this applies only when WLAN connection got auto-established. Doing exactly same (plus additional) tests after selecting same WLAN AP from manual connect to internet menu, the WLAN stays up. | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | or not | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | apparently it also shuts down a minute or two after I close browser | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok last test: establish WLAN manually, only log in via ssh, waaaaait | 19:24 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~ $ while sleep 15; do date; done -> running since >3min now, over WLAN | 19:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | survived another >4 min after I opened and closed browser, now killing the "ping" | 19:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | WLAN down | 19:40 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so it seems safe to assume: "power-save-mode active will tear down WLAN *eventually* when no more data traffic happens on any of the existing connections" | 19:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | possibly interactively established sessions/connections like e.g. in browser might completely block tear down of WLAN | 19:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | while "non-harmattan" sessions (like ssh) happily get killed/cut whenever PSM daemon decides to time out - unless there's still active traffic on them at that moment | 19:43 |
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| SpeedEvil | iptables list? | 19:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh for doing that on N9 unbearable shell | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | on device :-D | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | what I will do now though is a ping to $outside | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if that'S establishing a connect at all | 19:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >> ping: sendto: Network is unreachable | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB this is with bgc:en | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ping: bad address: ct.de | 19:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so not even dnsmasq can crank up a background connection | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | when PSM:en | 19:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hah, disabling PSM instantly establishes the "connect auto" WLAN connection | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | *something* is not entirely straight with all this | 19:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I'd expect this behaviour (not even ping ct.de estabishing a cobbection) for bgc:0, not for bgc:1+psm:1 | 19:56 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so it seems while it would make sense to have separate settings for bgc and psm, the actual implementation implies bgc:0 on psm:1 and thus renders the bgc setting moot when power saving is active | 19:58 |
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| DocScrutinizer | OR xterm and the cmdline flock are even lower a caste than background connections, plus HARM's very own resolver/dnsmasq also suffers from being in this caste | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | CBA to test generic HARM apps that might have some special code to open_background_sock() | 20:02 |
| gri | artemma: You here? | 20:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | like maybe mail | 20:02 |
| artemma | gri, hi there | 20:02 |
| artemma | yep, I am here :) | 20:02 |
| artemma | In the middle of 5 min break actually :) | 20:02 |
| gri | artemma: You did publish to ovi, right? Do they really only accept square screenshots? In my n9 ovi client all applications have rectangular ones but I'm not able to upload a rectangular one | 20:03 |
| artemma | gri, it's more complex than that | 20:03 |
| artemma | they want rectangular screenshots indeed | 20:04 |
| artemma | but on the very last step you will suddenly see a popup out of nowhere | 20:04 |
| artemma | that will ask you to upload 854x480 screenshots as well | 20:04 |
| djszapi | aheinecke: I will bring some Qt Stickers for the sprint. :) | 20:04 |
| artemma | that said you should be able to upload rectangular screenshots now | 20:04 |
| artemma | is the size correct? | 20:05 |
| artemma | there are limits for resolutions, file size and file types | 20:05 |
| gri | artemma: So those square screenshots are only for the stupid store.ovi.com website? | 20:05 |
| artemma | I guess so | 20:05 |
| artemma | gri, what's your app about? | 20:06 |
| gri | sending sms via internet sites (scraping, using api ..) | 20:07 |
| gri | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4691970/ovi/first.png | 20:07 |
| gri | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4691970/ovi/second.png | 20:07 |
| gri | http://dl.dropbox.com/u/4691970/ovi/third.png | 20:07 |
| artemma | oh, looks nice and useful | 20:07 |
| gri | the screenshots say pretty much of nothing :P | 20:07 |
| artemma | though maybe not so much for people who have money for N9 | 20:07 |
| artemma | I guess you have or will have version for Symbian as well | 20:07 |
| gri | not symbian compatible | 20:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, one last clarification: "background connection" obviously doesn't mean "connection of an app that doesn't have focus (is in 'background')", browser even when not visible and settings are bgc:0+psm:1 doesn't cause WLAN to disconnect | 20:08 |
| gri | too much use of harmattan system components | 20:08 |
| artemma | with the current Symbian phone prices Symbian phones can be exactly stuff bought by your target market | 20:08 |
| djszapi | gri: on a side note: I might need your help this weekend because of the accounts plugin. | 20:08 |
| artemma | oh.. I thought it's mostly qml | 20:08 |
| artemma | well, good luck with Web2SMS! | 20:08 |
| gri | djszapi: ok | 20:09 |
| gri | artemma: Well, it's qml with mostly everything done in c++ :) | 20:09 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ooh, but locking screen seems to help, it's disconnected now | 20:10 |
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| artemma | BTW, is here anybody from Helsinki? | 20:11 |
| artemma | Anything interesting happening in Helsinki tomorrow? (related to programming, agile or maybe some leisure event/concert) | 20:11 |
| * artemma is traveling to Helsinki for work tomorrow, thinking about evening time | 20:11 | |
| nix-cyrus | gri: is it something like whatsapp and kik messenger or what? | 20:11 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: not really | 20:12 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: Whatsapp does not send sms, it only contacts it's own service which both clients need to have | 20:12 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: my program really sends sms to the other side | 20:12 |
| gri | gets useful if you need to send sms to different countries (there are services to send cheap sms worldwide) | 20:13 |
| gri | or if you are in a foreign country, have wifi and want to send free sms home :) | 20:13 |
| gri | or if your provider gives you free sms per month on their website like o2 germany does | 20:14 |
| nix-cyrus | gri: and is it for free? I mean sending sms to other countries?? | 20:14 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: Depends on the service you use | 20:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok scratch that, lemme rephrase: | 20:14 |
| gri | you can add multiple accounts | 20:14 |
| nix-cyrus | gri: so.. if I understand right your program just make interface to providers web-service for sms sending? | 20:14 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: right | 20:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | "background connection" obviously means "connection of an app that doesn't have focus (is in 'background')", browser when not visible and settings are bgc:0+psm:1 causes WLAN to disconnect eventually | 20:15 |
| gri | and also for providers which don't have a api, there it starts scraping the website like you would have to do with your browser | 20:15 |
| nix-cyrus | ok) it's nice.. does your app in ovi.store? | 20:15 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: No, I don't have an icon ... a blocker :) | 20:16 |
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| nix-cyrus | gri: so any reps? or you can try apps.for.meego :) | 20:17 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: I want to reach the average user, so only ovi ... | 20:18 |
| gri | nix-cyrus: I also assume the provider you would use is not implemented :D | 20:18 |
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| rzr | anyone bored enough to fix this https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=gmp&project=home%3Adjszapi&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan ? | 20:33 |
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| Passeli | anyone having issues with internet connection on N9? | 20:35 |
| Passeli | sometimes apps like web browser + feeds don't seem to be able to use active internet connection | 20:37 |
| Passeli | only poweroff/poweron will resolve this issue | 20:37 |
| Passeli | even when listening music with meespot app above apps cannot connect to internet | 20:38 |
| Passeli | mail app seems to work also when above apps fails | 20:38 |
| razvanpetru | 1.1? | 20:38 |
| razvanpetru | the only problem I have is that the wifi is not used if it's already started using 2g and I turn wifi on... | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | I've had problems when wifi appears to be online, but communication fails | 20:39 |
| mgedmin | disconnecting/reconnecting fixes it for me | 20:39 |
| Passeli | V 20.2011.40-4_PR_001 | 20:39 |
| Passeli | same problem affects both 3g + wifi | 20:40 |
| mgedmin | I suspect the access point (openwrt on a buffalo wzr-300gn, there's a known issue with wpa group rekeying iirc in the firmware version that I have) | 20:40 |
| Passeli | apps are not able to use active internet connection | 20:40 |
| razvanpetru | I bet lumia doesn't have this issues :P | 20:41 |
| razvanpetru | s/issues/issue | 20:41 |
| nix-cyrus | razvanpetru: why? | 20:42 |
| razvanpetru | eh it was more tongue-in-cheek :) | 20:42 |
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| razvanpetru | I'm actually curious about how good it is... | 20:42 |
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| nix-cyrus | razvanpetru: oh ok | 20:42 |
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| Chaz6 | Is it possible to sync my contacts with my nokia(/ovi) account like on symbian? | 20:55 |
| Chaz6 | I can't figure out how to do it | 20:55 |
| Chaz6 | I tried going to Settings->Sync but it only lets me add a bluetooth device | 20:56 |
| Chaz6 | ahh got to do it through the nokia account under accounts.. weird! | 20:57 |
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| deram | Chaz6: add ovi account with accounts tool | 21:11 |
| deram | rest is automatic | 21:12 |
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| lardman|home | Is there an easy way of making the camera output rotate with the device rotation? | 21:52 |
| lardman|home | The video data are being rendered in a QDeclarativeItem | 21:54 |
| lardman|home | I see I can call setRotation(), but is that usually necessary? Presumably I'll need to make that a property of the QML item, etc., seems like there ought to be an easier way? | 21:57 |
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| djszapi | X-Fade: how did it get rpc timeout during the building process around 20% ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard | 21:59 |
| djszapi | never really seen such an obs issue heretofore. | 21:59 |
| lardman|home | hey djszapi, you'll be glad to hear my issue this morning was merely an anchor problem, so the video was not visible... doh! | 22:00 |
| djszapi | aegis broke the anchors ?! :D | 22:00 |
| lardman|home | nah ;) | 22:01 |
| lardman|home | I've yet to remove the aegis stuff though, but will have to check it still works | 22:01 |
| djszapi | yes, you indeed need. | 22:01 |
| lardman|home | ah ok, but not on the N9? | 22:02 |
| djszapi | everywhere | 22:02 |
| lardman|home | ok | 22:02 |
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| apelete | hello #harmattan | 22:10 |
| ajalkane | hello to you | 22:12 |
| apelete | I've been trying to install harmattan platform sdk on a debian squeeze, but it failed twice because I only have ~6GB left on my / partition before beginning the install | 22:12 |
| apelete | before the end the installer ran out of space | 22:13 |
| apelete | how much space that thing needs actually ? | 22:13 |
| ajalkane | apelete: perhaps you should install it to some partition that has more space? | 22:13 |
| djszapi | apelete: I use 10-20 GB for sb | 22:14 |
| mgedmin | du -xhcs /scratchbox => 7.5 GB | 22:14 |
| djszapi | and definitely separate partition | 22:14 |
| apelete | if I try userinstall instead of admininstall it complains that sb is not installed and ask me to run admininstall | 22:14 |
| apelete | can I specify the partition ? I want it to live in /home/apelete/ | 22:15 |
| mgedmin | I _think_ du did not double-count the bind-mount of /scratchbox on /scratchbox/users/mg/scratchbox (because it printed a SCARY FILESYSTEM CORRUPTION OMG-no-we-do-not-know-what-bind-mounts-are-why-do-you-ask warning instead) | 22:15 |
| luke-jr | mgedmin: du -x | 22:16 |
| mgedmin | luke-jr, <mgedmin> du -xhcs /scratchbox => 7.5 GB | 22:16 |
| apelete | so, is there a way to install to /home or am I obliged to resize my / partition ? I did not find any clue about partition selection in the install script... | 22:19 |
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| djszapi | apelete: use sb instead of creatorcrap :) | 22:20 |
| mgedmin | djszapi, "harmattan platform sdk" *is* scratchbox | 22:21 |
| djszapi | + creator I guess | 22:21 |
| djszapi | so not really pure sb which is the main purpose of mine. Eliminating the creatorcrap | 22:21 |
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| apelete | djszapi: I don't think so, pdk is pure scrachbox + the needed harmattan targets | 22:22 |
| apelete | isn't it ? | 22:22 |
| djszapi | never really used harmattan platform sdk ... | 22:22 |
| djszapi | I have a nicely working sb since ever. | 22:22 |
| apelete | ok, how do you installed sb + harmattan targets ? | 22:23 |
| djszapi | but anyway, of course you can install sb onto another partition | 22:23 |
| djszapi | you can even move it later anyway | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | there's a debian repository somewhere over at scratchbox.org, isn't there? | 22:23 |
| mgedmin | apelete, is your /usr separate from / ? | 22:23 |
| apelete | no... | 22:24 |
| djszapi | apelete: well do you have a separate partition at all for this purpose ? | 22:24 |
| mgedmin | so, a few of those gigs are scratchbox binaries (which will go into /), the others are the chroot'ed system, which you ought to be able to place on a different partition without too much trouble... I think | 22:24 |
| apelete | I have /home separate from /, that's it | 22:25 |
| djszapi | that is not a wise thing ... | 22:25 |
| djszapi | apelete: anyway, I use lenny chroot, and sb inside that | 22:25 |
| apelete | but everything is in a single lvm, so I was thinking about resize, but that's another PITA | 22:25 |
| djszapi | I have a separate partition for lenny chroot | 22:25 |
| djszapi | resizing is not PITA, mainly not with lvm | 22:26 |
| mgedmin | (as long as nothing goes wrong :) ) | 22:26 |
| djszapi | could never really get anything wrong. | 22:27 |
| javispedro | pdk :) | 22:28 |
| djszapi | how is the creator sdk called ? | 22:28 |
| ajalkane | apelete: can't you install it in chroot wherever you want if it insists on / ? | 22:28 |
| javispedro | djszapi: nokia qt sdk | 22:28 |
| djszapi | thanks, blacklisted ;) | 22:29 |
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| apelete | javispedro: yeah, I tried that, qtcreator is a bloated mess, no thanks | 22:30 |
| djszapi | muhaha :D | 22:30 |
| * javispedro will not disagree with that | 22:30 | |
| javispedro | uh, gtg | 22:31 |
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| apelete | ajalkane: the is the harmattan pdk installer does not ask _where_ you want to install | 22:33 |
| apelete | it automatically puts sb in /, and a few bits and pieces (don't know what exactly since it failed on me) in /home | 22:33 |
| ajalkane | apelete: that's why I asked why not install it inside chroot. If you run the installer inside chroot, then if it tries installing in / it actually installs inside the chroot | 22:33 |
| djszapi | apelete: follow my instructions. | 22:34 |
| djszapi | though, a bit newer version than lenny might be more fashionable. | 22:36 |
| djszapi | I installed 2 years ago. Hence, lenny. | 22:36 |
| apelete | ok, so I'm going to install a squeeze chroot in my /home, and run the installer in that | 22:37 |
| djszapi | though, it does not matter much | 22:37 |
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| djszapi | since I do not effectively use the chroot | 22:37 |
| djszapi | I switch to sb directly from host. | 22:37 |
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| djszapi | M4rtinK: do you have an idea for this ? https://build.pub.meego.com/package/live_build_log?arch=armv7el&package=kdelibs&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan&repository=MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard | 22:57 |
| M4rtinK | djszapi: I don't see any log - thats the issue ? | 22:58 |
| djszapi | I do not really know what the issue is ... | 22:59 |
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| djszapi | I have not ever touched the previously working kdelibs. | 22:59 |
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| ZogG_laptop | X-Fade: ping | 23:08 |
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| X-Fade | ZogG_laptop: pong | 23:09 |
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| M4rtinK | djszapi: check it out now - the good old "RPC timeout" error message showed up :) a rebuild should fix this | 23:15 |
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| Milhouse | Anyone working on getting Mer up and running on a Raspberry Pi? | 23:31 |
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| nix-cyrus | Milhouse: Raspberry Pi is already in online order?? | 23:32 |
| Milhouse | not available for order yet, though i believe they've been seeding various OS vendors with prototype devices | 23:33 |
| ieatlint | Milhouse: i believe it is, in the #mer channel | 23:33 |
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| Milhouse | ieatlint: cool | 23:33 |
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