IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-11-15

ZogG_laptopme and pal nix-cyrus got big plans and no knowledge00:00
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ZogG_laptoplike we keep saying "one day, just one day"00:00
gabriel9Zend Framework or Qt?00:00
ZogG_laptopi prefer C or maybe c++ and than to learn how to wrap it to qt gui00:00
gabriel9Qt and Qt Quick are easy00:01
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gabriel9take it easy you will learn00:01
nix-cyrusgabriel9: Zend? if is for php?00:01
gabriel9big framework00:01
nix-cyrusyeah.. I saw it00:01
gabriel9but it is great00:02
gabriel9i was writing my own framework00:02
gabriel9but one man to do that is olmost imposible00:02
ZogG_laptophe just used it or coded soething for it or small part of it00:03
nix-cyrusgabriel9: js-coders can do that :)00:03
gabriel9i also code in JS00:03
ZogG_laptopand i don't code =(00:04
gabriel9and today i hate it, 5h i spend to change something really stupid :/00:04
ZogG_laptopit was just4fun or work/order?00:04
nix-cyrusjs doesn't have code analyzer?00:05
gabriel9i don't know00:06
gabriel9i'm happy with debuger :)00:06
gabriel9i see i have developer folder in /home00:07
gabriel9can i delete that?00:07
nix-cyrusgabriel9: for what? I think there are files for developer mode00:07
gabriel9it have all duplicated files from my user dir and it just take space00:07
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nix-cyrusbtw anybody here who using
gabriel9nop, i will check it00:10
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gabriel9i use Jira00:10
gabriel9well my company00:10
gabriel9and i try to use Wave with some of my friends developers00:11
gabriel9it had nice start but it is too slow and buggy00:11
nix-cyrusgabriel9: wave too heavy00:11
gabriel9and also that, well for me is not a problem 8GB of ram00:14
gabriel9but still slow00:14
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V13ehlo.. what's the indication that n950 is bricked? Does it stay forever at the 'nokia' logo ?00:20
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ZogG_laptopgabriel9: turn off developer mode00:23
ZogG_laptopas i understand if you want to use n9 with qt sdk to check your apps you need another user with other permissions00:24
ZogG_laptopbut i might be wrong00:24
ZogG_laptopV13: there is no defination, bricked is just broken+stuck - and that can happen in many ways00:25
ZogG_laptopso you an try to flash, to than again no backup =\00:26
infobot[bricked] a misnomer, when referring to a webos device, unless you have damaged hardware.00:26
infobotSend email to with details if you believe that you have bricked your ipaq00:26
SpeedEvilV13: If you upgraded, it takes ages the firt time to boot00:27
ZogG_laptopthat bot is sitting at many channels and believe me there thing they teached him you DON'T want to know00:27
gabriel9ZogG i done some strange thing: SDK connection does not work when i Activate it.00:28
gabriel9It does only work when i start Developer mode and restart my device00:28
gabriel9also, when i login in normal mode(without developer mode ON) and then start Developer mode i can' see SDK Connection00:29
gabriel9after i turn it off and then On i can see Icon but i cant deploy project or key to the device00:30
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V13speedevil: really, so I shouldn't reflash it ?00:30
V13speedevil it's there for more than 10 minutes00:30
ZogG_laptopgabriel9: simply reinstall it00:31
ZogG_laptopwith all dependies00:31
DocScrutinizerV13^wait another 20 min, then rebott. If that still fails, reflash00:31
V13speedevil after finishing ugprading, it rebooted and it stayed there. Bad thing is that I did a hard reboot already00:31
V13DocScrutinizer: K ... that's what I'll do00:31
SpeedEvilLeave it plugged in for a while00:31
V13DocScrutinizer, SpeedEvil: ok.. since you two may know about this: is there a way to detect hildon-desktop's orientation on latest csu? I have drlaunch that needs to detect when orientation of screen changes and act acordingly00:32
SpeedEvilNo idea, sorry.00:33
DocScrutinizerV13: I seem to recall it locked up for me as well, locking screen and then unlocking it fixed that00:33
V13i mean the desktop's orientation. not the device's00:33
V13docs: it's waaaaay before that. it didn't even show the ripples yet.00:33
nix-cyrusis there any data for satellite detection preinstalled on n9?00:33
SpeedEvilSatellite detection?00:34
DocScrutinizerwell, what's hapening when you press power button for a short moment?00:34
V13nothing with up to 5 secs00:34
V13with 10 seconds it powers off00:35
V13reflashing :)00:36
V13but still, the hildon-desktop's orientation thing puzzles me.00:36
DocScrutinizerI suggest a full reflash.. at least now that you have force-shutdown it00:36
DocScrutinizeresp if it won't boot up now00:36
V13it's reflashinh00:36
nix-cyrusSpeedEvil: yea.. for geolocation. When I just bought n9 it workds fine.. but then I have some bugs and make clear function.. it erases all preinstalled data(music,gallery,maps).. after that geolocation in maps doesn't work... it is try to find but can't do it00:37
V13(note: with hildon-desktop I refer to maemo's hildon-desktop)00:37
nix-cyrusactually it can... but it taking so much time.. with preinstalled it can find my location in 10-20 minutes.. now it can't find me even after hour of working in background00:38
DocScrutinizernix-cyrus: insert a SIM00:44
DocScrutinizerconnect to internet00:44
DocScrutinizermake sure you have plain view to sky and don't move the divice until it got a fix00:45
DocScrutinizerand use "location test gui" app to power up and watch GPS00:46
SpeedEvilerr - n9? does that have location-test?00:46
DocScrutinizeras maps etc are known to occasionally switch down GPS receiver after 60s without notifying you, so obviously it will take forever to get a fix then00:47
DocScrutinizersorry scratch ALL that, wrong chan00:47
V13how long does the reflash's erasing takes?00:49
V13it's already 13 minutes in 'erasing'00:50
* DocScrutinizer frowns at $>mount -> aegisfs on /home/user/.positioningd/private type fuse.aegisfs00:50
DocScrutinizerwill take another 5 to 1000:50
V13thans a lot00:50
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DocScrutinizeror it hangs :-P00:50
DocScrutinizerflashing takes less than an hour ;-.D00:51
V13"tomorrow weather may include sun, fog, rain, snow and fishes dropping from the sky"00:51
V13wtf... it just finished :)00:51
V13(the erasing)00:51
V13xm.. i wander whether it will erase user data also00:52
V13yeap... it seems...00:52
DocScrutinizerprobably it will00:52
V13if mmc is that :)00:52
nix-cyrusDocScrutinizer ok thnx try it today00:53
V13yeay... ripples :)00:53
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V13lets customize it one more time :)00:54
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nix-cyrusgn and bb all00:55
V13hmm.. angry birds by default00:55
V13i like that :)00:55
V13on a development phone :)00:55
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djszapi -> Is there way to disable the left side, not just move it to as minimal size as possible ?00:58
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arceanV13: could you join #maemo-ssu channel regarding h-d screen orientation problem?01:03
V13of course!01:04
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gabriel9ZogG ping01:19
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gabriel9just a little info for you guys: I saw folder developer in my /home dir and it have all files/folders from my user dir. I delete it and i delete all data from user  with that action02:31
Robot101... I saw my data, deleted it, and then my data was deleted?02:34
djszapigabriel9: known :)02:35
gabriel9i saw it in developer folder02:36
gabriel9i was thinking i am a user02:36
gabriel9data should stay in user02:36
djszapiwell, I disagree02:38
djszapideveloper is the user with developer credentials.02:38
gabriel9i know that too now :D02:38
merlin1991gabriel9: the MyDocs "folder" in developer is actually a symlink to /home/user/MyDocs02:39
djszapithe user /did/ choose to be a developer02:39
gabriel9now i know :)02:39
gabriel9well good night to you all02:39
djszapiit is not a bug, but feature02:40
gabriel94h of sleap and then to work again02:40
gabriel9yea i see now02:40
gabriel9it is a good feature02:40
djszapisleep well02:40
gabriel9you too02:40
merlin1991hm the n9 is too small, whenever I look for it I miss it on my desk02:40
djszapimeh :D02:41
merlin1991it's like some thinish black thingy lying on another big black thingy02:41
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djszapiyou should have a more vivid version, like pink ;)02:41
merlin1991or get new glasses, dunno :P02:42
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macmaNsup alls06:12
macmaNanyone figured out a way to connect to wifi faster than having to go through status, internet, choose connection hoopla? maemo had some shortcuts developed06:13
macmaNfor single press connections06:13
macmaNsome slider switch on lock screen would be nice06:13
macmaNbut was it announced that us lowlife outsider devs wont be able to play with the lock screen on harmattan?06:14
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dm8tbrmacmaN: press status bar, connect07:46
z720i manager to connect via wpa_supplicant but the wireless icon not showing connected07:47
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macmaNdm8tbr: from locked screen that is about 5 steps to get connected. unacceptable methinks.07:47
macmaNimagine a double tap and "connect" slider.07:48
macmaNi think i could roll with that07:48
macmaNdm8tbr: its even more steps when you have an app running that hides status bar07:48
macmaNi.e. music player which runs 24/7 for me07:48
dm8tbrmacmaN: I really fail to see the difference in steps between N900 and N9... Press power, slide, press status bar, press network connection. _exactly_ the same07:49
macmaNdm8tbr: yeah, for builtin. you could download an app that let you create connection shortcuts.07:50
macmaNi had my main wifi and 3g connection icons on n900 home screen, very convenvient.07:51
dm8tbrmacmaN: well then try and write one, could be well possible on harmattan too07:51
macmaNyep. which is the second question, i remember seeing a writing on fmo that lock screen was off limits.07:52
macmaN04:37      Texrat 17 Got my #Qt book! <…> -- now trying to port @bobduffy's AltMegaRace to @Nokia #N9 <…>07:52
dm8tbryes, you can not modify the lock screen. you have been talking about the _home_ screen so far. you are a bit inconsistent...07:52
macmaNn900 icons were on home screen. nobody came up with a lock screen implementation yet. my first instinct is that this could be lock screen material.07:53
macmaNor... possibly gesture material07:54
dm8tbrthere is MyMoves07:54
macmaNare gestures recognized with locked screen07:54
macmaNbtw i havent understood yet what exactly does the "stand by screen" switch do in device->display.07:55
macmaNi should look at girls n9 i screen07:56
dm8tbrif you have a N950 - nothing07:56
macmaNok read the i screen. it is the low power amoled clock + icons?07:58
dm8tbrbtw: mymoves does work through the lock screen, but you still need to unlock the screen after your gesture yourself07:58
dm8tbralso I'm not sure how to open the connections screen/application with mymoves. You might need to poke sandst1 and ask if that's possible.07:59
macmaNthanks for chatting with me about this, not sure when i wouldve thought of gestures otherwise08:04
macmaNaha ok youre already mentioned here :) thats the thread i remembered08:05
macmaNdm8tbr: is the thread talking about the same thing im trying to do here? i want to implement some control on top of lock screen like Music is able to. no bouncy event animation needed.08:08
macmaN is a pretty good page08:13
dm8tbrI would expect the lock-screen to be off-limits, but who knows...08:14
macmaNill post on wdnc08:18
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macmaNthats me09:25
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razvanpetrudoes anyone have notes from Girish's QML presentation @ devdays?10:45
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djszapiso if anybody willing to help KDE with votes: :)11:03
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macmaNTronic: sup dawg11:25
macmaNTronic: did you thp's tweet re
macmaNTronic: made me want to check if you have part of performous that runs on harmattan yet11:27
macmaNany part*11:27
TronicmacmaN: I have pitch detection and scoring working there but rather than continuing with this partial re-implementation approach I've done mostly for testing, I'd like to have the actual Performous project compiled on MeeGo.11:30
TronicUnfortunately on that I've been entirely stalled as I don't really know where to begin.11:30
TronicIf you have any tips, I'd like to do something about that the next weekend.11:30
TronicAnd no, I don't follow Twitter.11:31
matrixxcan someone give an obs pointer, how to prevent rebuild on harmattan target when modifying files that concern only meego build?11:31
matrixxread: spec file11:32
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TronicI guess that scratchbox is the only way to go with attempting to compile Performous. For now I've been working with Qt Creator instead.11:32
X-Fadematrixx: You can't really.11:32
matrixxX-Fade: oh :/11:32
TronicThe biggest problem is how to get the libraries installed and packaged properly for Store.11:33
X-Fadematrixx: It is probably best to create a subproject and expermiment there.11:33
Tronic(or for a .deb, even)11:33
X-Fadematrixx: And then move to your own 'stable' project when you are done.11:33
matrixxX-Fade: ok thanks, I'll do that for the themechanger, I'm building it for Nemo :)11:33
TronicMy reimplementation approach gets around that problem by only using the MeeGo API libs.11:34
djszapi -> That is what is happening in the rzr project, separated projects, and only the relevant is re-triggered for build.11:34
TronicWhile taking from Performous whatever I can.11:34
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djszapiaheinecke: ping11:34
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djszapidoes one know the osc check out command for the community obs by off-hand ?11:37
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X-Fadeosc -A co home:yourproject11:38
djszapinot even target ? :o11:38
poutsianybody have any bright ideas as to why a particular qt quick app would cause the harmattan music player to pause, and disable restarting playback until that other app has quit?11:39
X-Fadedjszapi: Depends on what you want :)11:39
poutsithe app requests GRP::video and GRP::pulse-access and has one Audio QML element, but taking those out doesn't seem to affect it11:39
X-Fadedjszapi: you can also add package name11:39
djszapiGRP::video for music player, sorry ?11:40
poutsidjszapi, it's not a music player11:40
poutsiit just causes the platform music player to pause when it starts11:40
djszapiso you have a video player which would desperately like to access raw /dev/video* device instead of using a high-level API ?11:41
djszapiX-Fade: I could get an ubuntu server for osc testing, and there is static qemu there :)11:41
X-Fadedjszapi: Hehe cool, let's see if you can reproduce the issue there.11:42
djszapiI hope I do not need Ui11:42
poutsidjszapi, multimediakit video seems to want that for getting stuff from the camera11:42
djszapifor testing builds..11:42
djszapiX-Fade: since it is just an ssh console access11:42
X-Fadedjszapi: nah, not needed.11:42
djszapipoutsi: you do not really need that. That is the responsibility of the multimediakit ...11:42
djszapipoutsi: same with the pulse-access...11:42
poutsidjszapi, if I take GRP::video out -> no picture from QCamera11:43
poutsithat doesn't affect the platform music player pausing at all11:43
poutsiwhich is the real problem I have11:43
djszapiit is a real problem to ask for credentials you should not11:43
djszapisuch applications should be rejected by the OVI process.11:44
poutsiI should clarify, it's *not* a video player either11:44
poutsianyway, anybody have any clues as to why this would pause the platform player?11:44
TronicmacmaN: So, what was in the tweet?11:45
macmaNdjszapi: you wouldnt happen to know about this
macmaNTronic: i pasted url didnt i?11:46
djszapiX-Fade: -> same with osc -A co home:MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard11:46
macmaNTronic: scratchbox install is probably a good idea indeed. re qtcreator, you simply dont know right now how to import the performous project into qt creator so it would stay intact?11:47
djszapimacmaN: what is the purpose of that feature ?11:48
djszapidouble click or the button on the side works just fine11:48
X-Fadedjszapi: Checkout != build11:49
macmaNdjszapi: that just undims the screen, im talking about being able to put some control for whatever on undimmed lock screen. like music player does.11:49
djszapiX-Fade: I know :)11:49
X-Fadedjszapi: so you should co home:rzr:harmattan or something like that.11:49
X-Fadedjszapi: Not the build architecture.11:49
djszapiX-Fade: osc -A co home:rzr:harmattan11:49
djszapiI used that in the paste.11:49
djszapias a first try, but some password issue apparently. I opened up the ~/.oscrc on my working desktop system11:50
X-Fadedjszapi: No keyring.11:50
X-Fadetry adding --no-keyring11:51
djszapimacmaN: could you please make me a screenshot about what you would like to achieve ?11:51
X-FademacmaN: That needs a different aegis crendential.11:52
X-FademacmaN: To display things on the lock screen.11:52
djszapiX-Fade: the order of the options matter in osc mmm11:52
djszapi--no-keyring did not work at the end, just in the beginning11:53
macmaNdjszapi: play music on phone, lock screen while music play, unlock undim screen - music player has put back-pause-forward controls on lock screen11:53
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djszapiX-Fade I do not think it requires any special credentials11:53
macmaNX-Fade: uh, different means... "impossible to acquire" or different from what :>11:54
djszapiX-Fade check out /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf for the music player.11:54
poutsidjszapi, says that QtMobility Multimedia needs those two GRP tokens, however I'm curious about what you meant when you mentioned raw device access?11:54
X-Fadedjszapi: ScreenLockEventPublish probably11:54
TronicmacmaN: A Youtube video, yes. I was wondering if there was something more in the tweet.11:55
macmaNTronic: ah, no. that was it.11:55
djszapiX-Fade interesting, the call-ui uses that only, not even the music player which even works according to the description above11:55
djszapiand that is not requestable from OVI after all.11:55
X-Fadedjszapi: Was just guessing :)11:56
TronicmacmaN: re Qt Creator, I don't know how to install Harmattan versions of Boost & other libs on it.11:56
aheineckedjszapi: pong11:56
djszapiX-Fade meh the check out failed:
djszapiaheinecke: could you please help me with this soprano isuse ? :)11:56
djszapiaheinecke: we are now in a pretty bad shape for the sprint on Friday yet :)11:56
djszapisoprano breaks -> kdelibs breaks -> runtime breaks -> kdeedu breaks and so on :)11:57
macmaNTronic: ah hmm, good point11:57
macmaNTronic: so mostly dependency questions to start huh11:57
macmaNTronic: before we even get to performous itself11:57
X-Fadedjszapi: try to only checkout what you actually need?11:57
djszapipoutsi: you are not QtMobility Multimedia...11:57
TronicmacmaN: Overall, it seems easier to reimplement as there it is simply a matter of effort. However, actually compiling Performous would have huge benefits as then a lot of graphical gimmicks are already implemented.11:57
djszapiX-Fade: that is a workaround. However if I see a problem, I would like to understand ;-)11:58
X-Fadedjszapi: I think a disconnect or so.11:58
Tronic... but when recompiling, there are too many unknown and undocumented variables to the equation.11:58
X-Fadedjszapi: It got an empty response.11:58
djszapiX-Fade: again ? :)11:58
djszapior com or whatever ;-)11:58 :)11:58
X-Fadedjszapi: just try again?11:58
TronicIt's a similar problem as porting to Windows was the first time.11:59
djszapipoutsi: I told you what raw device access means ;-)11:59
djszapiwhat is not clear about that ?11:59
X-Fadedjszapi: keyring :)11:59
X-FadeRead you must :)12:00
djszapithe problem is that I am not sure corkscrew could work for scp behind the Nokia proxy :)12:00
djszapissh worked...but scp does not apparently have such an option12:00
X-Fadedjszapi: Just tunnel out then?12:00
djszapiin ssh config ?12:01
djszapiI think that was my first try last year, but did not work for a reason.12:01
aheineckedjszapi: i'll have to try it in my scratchbox the find stuff in soprano is really not verbose at all :/ I think the VERSION_VAR (missing: REQUIRED_VARS) come from find raptor12:01
poutsidjszapi, the fact remains, that if I take out GRP::video and the app doesn't get a picture from QCamera12:01
poutsis/ and/,/12:01
infobotpoutsi meant: djszapi, the fact remains, that if I take out GRP::video, the app doesn't get a picture from QCamera12:01
djszapipoutsi: try to figure out the problem. You should not request those caps after all12:01
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djszapiif you really use the mmk perfectly.12:01
andymkayhello gentlemen12:02
velidjszapi: scp works with corkscrew from nokia.12:02
poutsiwell, my reading of the harmattan security guide is quite different, but nevermind12:02
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djszapiveli: that is what I use for ssh:
djszapipoutsi: you either read it wrong, or the description is bad we did.12:03
djszapipoutsi: please link it.12:03
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poutsiThis section lists all Harmattan APIs and Qt Declarative modules that require security credentials.12:03
poutsithen, with "QtMobility Multimedia" it lists GRP::pulse-access and GRP::video12:04
djszapipoutsi: yes, so ?12:04
djszapiit is not bad description, you read it wrong12:04
poutsisurely this documentation is not meant for whoever implemented Qt Mobility?12:04
djszapiQtMobility Multimedia requests those caps12:04
velidjszapi: "ProxyCommand /usr/bin/corkscrew 8080 %h %p"12:04
djszapicheck out /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf12:04
djszapipoutsi: you do not need to re-request those again12:04
djszapiQtMobility Multimedia does the boilerplate thing for you.12:05
velibut at least at some point nokia proxy did not let you to connect to port 22.. So on remote server you need to have sshd running in different port...12:05
djszapiveli: that is not an scp command :)12:05
djszapias for ssh, -o manages that.12:05
velidjszapi: that is from my .ssh/config and works..12:06
djszapiveli: I would like to have an alias, not bloat my ssh config12:06
djszapiI use this laptop at home, too ...12:06
djszapiand things like that would break things at home ...12:07
djszapiHence, I prefer aliases...12:07
velidjszapi: no it won't if you put alias to your .ssh/config12:07
velibut suit your self...12:07
djszapiwell, tunneling in ssh config does break the kde repository intervention at home12:07
djszapiand I always need to do manual overhead when I arrive home.12:08
velidjszapi: Host my_host_from_nokia\n\tHostname\n\tProxyCommand /usr/bin/corkscrew 8080 %h %p12:08
djszapiand there is no simple way of switching ssh config profiles automatically (there is no simple logic for that)12:08
velithen: scp file.txt user@my_host_from_nokia:12:09
razvanpetruis harmattan code completion working for anyone? for me it's always been broken even with a freshly installed sdk12:09
djszapiveli: are you on the internal channel ?12:09
razvanpetruprogramming like 1995...12:09
velidjszapi: no.12:09
djszapianyway, I need alias.12:09
razvanpetrucode completion can't even find the Qt headers...12:09
velibut /msg works here too.12:09
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poutsidjszapi, looking at restok.conf I'm again a bit confused. It lists many binary packages like camera-ui that request e.g. GRP::pulse-access. Now by your explanation this means that camera-ui does not use Qt to access the camera, but instead uses raw device access, right? Because if it used Qt, it wouldn't need those caps?12:12
infobotpoutsi meant: djszapi, looking at restok.conf I'm again a bit confused. It lists many binary packages like camera-ui that request e.g. GRP::video. Now by your explanation this means that camera-ui does not use Qt to access the camera, but instead uses raw device access...12:12
velidjszapi: anyhow, -o should take the same format. Wonder what weird ssh client you are using.12:12
djszapipoutsi: well, pulse-access is not for raw access...12:13
djszapiI have never said...12:13
djszapithat is for video...12:13
poutsinote the correction12:13
djszapipoutsi: also, note that, many system applications do not really use the sec fw well12:13
djszapieven if we shouted at them in time12:13
djszapiveli: weird ssh client :D :D12:14
djszapiit is called "openssh"12:14
andymkayI'm looking at the list of firmwares for 20.2011.40.4 from Nokia "Production External" via NaviFirm Plus. However there is nothing for my code (Sweden). Anyone know of another repository of firmwares, or do I just have to wait for Nokia?12:14
velidjszapi: that is what I have.12:14
velidjszapi: so the proxycommand I had for you should work..12:14
djszapiandymkay: NaviFirm is completely illegal12:14
macmaNX-Fade: Package: music-suite doesnt seem to be requesting any credentials that affect lock screen. so djszapi seems to be right about it not being some special operation.12:14
velidjszapi: that was kind a the point of "weird ssh client" comment.12:15
poutsianyway, getting sidetracked in a big way12:15
X-FademacmaN: Hmm interesting.12:16
djszapiveli: does not really work with scp ...12:16
djszapiis there a public site I can upload my pub ssh key and using wget on the server side ?12:16
djszapisome free file sharing stuff :D12:16
X-Fadedjszapi: paste?12:17
djszapiX-Fade good point ;)12:17
X-Fadedjszapi: It is text, you know :)12:17
djszapiyup :)12:17
X-FadeOr write it on a paper and type it all in :D12:17
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velidjszapi: just tried it. Works like a charm.12:18
djszapiveli: I can paste my output in a few minutes12:19
velidjszapi: OpenSSH_5.5p1 Debian-4ubuntu512:19
djszapiX-Fade: right ? Did, still the same issue12:19
djszapiX-Fade: do I need to check out the whole repository again without the --no-keyring ?12:19
djszapido I also need this authorized_keys ?12:20
velidjszapi: seems to work to port 22 too nowadays. Tried two different target hosts. Works perfectly.12:20
djszapiveli: it even worked one and half a year ago :D12:20
velidjszapi: did you even try with my proxycommand line?12:21
velidjszapi: haven't had the need to try.12:21
andymkaydjszapi: Could you elaborate on NaviFirm being illegal? As I understand it is legal firmwares directly from Nokia.12:21
djszapiandymkay: because they publish images before Nokia does that ?12:22
djszapiand if Nokia publishes it, why not use that ?12:22
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velidjszapi: -o needs to be firs after ssh: ssh -o "" from to12:25
djszapithat is not true12:25
djszapiit always worked at the end for ssh actually.12:26
djszapifor scp, it seems to be true though12:26
andymkaydjszapi: Ok, I didn't know that. I thought it was just a tool that connected to a public nokia service.12:27
velix) not true but true!12:27
djszapiveli, it is not true for ssh that you said.12:27
macmaNTronic: would suggest that boost in theory is buildable for harmattan12:27
djszapiit is true for scp, you did not say ;012:27
deram"man scp" shows the correct order of options and arguments12:27
djszapiveli: thanks for such a hint though12:28
TronicmacmaN: I would find it very strange if it wasn't.12:28
TronicmacmaN: Well, Aegis could pose a problem of course, but I doubt even that being an issue here.12:28
djszapideram: already fixed ;)12:28
deramdjszapi: yep.. just read...12:29
TronicmacmaN: Most of Boost is simply standard C++, anyway. The rest is standard POSIX APIs, and GCC has been well tested with Boost, obviously.12:29
macmaNTronic: that fmo thread actually has the package built on cobs, thats excellent. i should look at the rest of the performous deps.12:29
velidjszapi: yeah, that was a typo. you don't have from and to with ssh too..12:29
TronicmacmaN: Some of the other libraries might prove to be more problematic, SDL + GLEW in particular.12:30
Arkenoimore WONTFIX'es from nokia12:30
djszapiX-Fade: same after copying the whole ~/.ssh/ folder to the server :/
TronicmacmaN: Almost certainly requires some OpenGL rewriting.12:30
X-Fadedjszapi: osc doesn't use ssh?12:31
TronicI won't have time to work on that until the weekend, though :/12:31
djszapiosc: then what keyring ? :o12:31
X-Fadedjszapi: This is just because on your desktop you used gnome keyring to store the key and that is recorded in that .oscrc file.12:31
djszapithe server does not have oscrc12:31
X-Fade.oscrc, it is a file in your home.12:32
djszapithat is created without the keyring, if I use the --no-keyring. As we previously saw, soprano check out was not still possible. :/12:32
macmaNTronic: thats fine, just trying to get some mindshare until then :>12:32
djszapiso what is wrong about the workflow ?12:32
X-Fadedjszapi: Don't run it as root.12:33
djszapiI did not12:33
X-Fadedjszapi: I see sudo :)12:33
djszapipoutsi: GRP::pulse-access -> Access to the Pulseaudio daemon. Note that the user "user" is already in this group, so this is only relevant when running processes under some other user account.12:33
djszapiX-Fade: in the first link too ?12:33
X-Fadedjszapi: Live in the now :)12:34
djszapiX-Fade: that is boring :p12:34
X-Fadehmm with an f even.12:34
djszapils -lda /home/lpapp/.oscrc12:35
djszapi-rw------- 1 root root 4933 2011-11-15 02:34 /home/lpapp/.oscrc12:35
X-Fadedjszapi: You have messed up permissions :)12:35
X-Fadedjszapi: This is just basic linux stuff, really :)12:35
poutsidjszapi, alright, thanks, so I shouldn't need it then even if I have my Audio QML element?12:35
djszapiX-Fade: actually, same error:
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X-Fadedjszapi: --no-keyring12:36
djszapipoutsi: if your program does not run as user, and does not use some high-level interface which already requests those..12:36
djszapiX-Fade: can I configure it properly to avoid the --no-keyring every single time ?12:37
djszapiprobably an alias, but osc configuration in the oscrc would be better.12:37
X-Fadedjszapi: I think so, by editing .oscrc. But ask on the opensuse-buildservice channel about that if needed.12:37
djszapibecause I need it before each single osc operation, even build, commit and the like12:38
poutsinow we're getting somewhere.. after removing all traces of multimedia, playback doesn't pause any more12:39
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poutsilet's get incremental12:39
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djszapiX-Fade how to build this build package ? The README does not mention anything useful12:45
djszapiI do not even have "build" package available on this ubuntu12:46
X-Fadedjszapi: it is a perl script iirc.12:46
djszapijust make install ?12:46
djszapiyeah, it seems so ... probably should be mentioned in the README ..12:47
X-FadeWhy don't you just use the deb? :)12:47
djszapidid not see..12:47
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X-Fadedjszapi: No idea? Bug in osc? Or something missing in .oscrc?12:50
djszapiX-Fade: no real clue ;-)12:51
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djszapiX-Fade: is it expected to spend 10-15 minutes here without any progressbar or even more ?
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djszapiX-Fade: ok, worked after another 15 minutes. Is there an option for telling osc to execute only the steps until the real "make", build stage ?13:16
X-Fadedjszapi: No, but ctrl-c works.13:17
djszapiX-Fade: for sure if I can pay attention.. btw this "No AEGIS_HASH_FDS environment" spam is really annoying13:18
djszapican I test the fix on my local PC at least ?13:18
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X-Fadedjszapi: You can play with the project conf yes.13:19
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djszapiX-Fade: where is that ?13:19
macmaNsidenote: harmattan doesn't have any builtin vpn capability?13:20
X-Fadedjszapi: look around in /var/tmp/osbuild-packagecache/*13:21
djszapimacmaN: imho, it does have, but not thorough13:21
macmaNdjszapi: wdym? apt-cache search vpn gives empty13:22
dm8tbrthere is support for tun/tap, the question is which caps you'd need and if you could get them if you'd go and port openvpn13:22
djszapimacmaN: you can run vpn imho without too much expectation13:23
djszapisomeone needs to package, but not builtin packaged, no13:23
djszapibut it has builtin capabilities for the operation13:23
macmaNdjszapi: right thats what i wanted to confirm. yeah dm8tbr tun/tap i know. so actual operational capability is still undone.13:25
macmaNi will try hacking on openvpn for a bit now13:26
macmaNsee what happens13:26
djszapimacmaN: actually all you need to do is to check out the available credentials in develsh ...13:27
djszapiand then /usr/include/linux/capability.h is yoru friend for description.13:27
djszapiand then you can immediately see what "builtin capabilities" you have.13:27
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poutsiheh, just created a new qt quick app with qtc wizard, added mobility and multimedia, added "QCamera *cam = new QCamera(); cam->start();" to main.cpp and got the same behaviour14:04
poutsithat's pretty funny14:04
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djszapipoutsi: send me the project and the package pls ...14:05
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poutsialright, sec14:05
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petterinew harmattan bugzilla seem to have wrong authors on the cloned bugs14:13
Corsacnew harmattan bugzilla?14:14
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djszapiX-Fade: use_keyring = 0 in the general section :)14:21
djszapipoutsi: reproducing steps pls..14:25
poutsicreated a bug for the playback issue:
poutsi...with steps14:26
djszapiokay, I do not bother then14:27
Corsacnice certificate...14:29
poutsiaw crud. now I don't know if I should've opened in harmattan-bugs instead14:31
djszapiX-Fade: where do you configure to use dpkg ?14:32
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djszapiX-Fade: because if you use aegis-install as it is actually run on the phone, the spam line is going away.14:39
X-Fadedjszapi: Yes, but it diverts dpkg-real or so and then things started to break. Last time I tested at least.14:40
djszapiwithout using the dpkg wrapper, imho the whole system is broken14:40
djszapisince it lacks basic information, credentials, capabilities, hash entries and many other things which are needed in the target environment.14:41
X-FadeAnyway, look at the project config.14:41
djszapiwhere is that ?14:41
djszapiX-Fade ^14:43
X-Fadechecking where those files get cached locally.14:44
X-Fadedjszapi: check .osc/_buildconfig-Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard-armv7el14:47
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X-Fadedjszapi: In dir where you run the build.14:47
djszapiX-Fade: ls: cannot access .osc/_buildconfig-Maemo.org_MeeGo_1.2_Harmattan_standard-armv7el: No such file or directory14:48
X-Fadedjszapi: look a bit around in your dir.14:48
djszapimaybe that one14:48
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djszapiX-Fade: ahh I see yoru stuff there: #Preinstall: libaegis-certman0 aegis-install libaegis-crypto1 aegis-crypto-tools14:50
djszapi#Runscripts: aegis-install14:50
djszapiyour* :)14:51
X-Fadedjszapi: Yeah, that is where the fun started :)14:51
djszapiwell, let me figure out with my colleague ...14:51
djszapior in worst case scenarios, with my colleagues14:51
X-FadeThat would be great.14:51
djszapiwell, those lines did not eliminate the spam though14:51
X-FadeThey do, once it gets installed.14:52
djszapiX-Fade: sorry, but that file is auto-generated ...14:53
djszapiso even if I modify it, it gets those uncommented again for the next run ..14:54
X-FadeYeah that is a problem. I wonder how to circumvent that.14:54
djszapiwell, where is the global config ?14:54
djszapion the c-obs server ?14:54
X-FadeIf you change that, builds break for everybody.14:55
djszapiexcept that if there is a test service14:55
djszapiwhich should be anyway for any testings.14:55
X-FadeYeah, that needs to be setup still.14:56
* RST38h hides14:56
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djszapiso anybody interested in 3d audio qt library based on top of openal and Qt ?15:10
djszapiit is meant mostly for games.15:10
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macmaNshow me a compelling use cae15:14
djszapigluon audio, qt3d15:14
djszapigame enabler15:15
macmaNi mean an example that you could experience it with15:15
macmaNi have no idea right now what the result will feel like15:15
macmaNin my ears, i guess15:15
djszapiplay a gluon a game :)15:15
djszapia gluon game* :)15:15
macmaN this?15:16
djszapi -> here you can find "a few" games using openal :)15:16
macmaNhmmm, its like i heard somebody talking about in one of the helsinki meego meetups15:17
djszapiprobably me :)15:18
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RST38hdjszapi: is it going to be a Windows library?15:19
macmaNdjszapi: ok it was possibly you that i was walking out of the amsterdami oluthuone then :> im the 2m+ .ee guy15:25
djszapimmm, that was not me then ...15:26
djszapiI was there only after the qt meetup..15:26
macmaNyes, it was qt meetup!15:27
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macmaNbut lot of the same guys anyhow15:28
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djszapimacmaN: ?15:29
macmaNyep lol im dissing maxinetti wifi there in the comments15:30
djszapimacmaN: you missed the qt meetup last Friday ? :)15:31
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macmaNwell im in tallinn right now15:34
baptxhello, can someone help fix /home/user/.signon folder? (Twitter/Facebook clients dead)15:34
macmaNbut in the process of finding some interesting linux job in .fi15:34
macmaNfor which i havent seached for yet15:35
macmaNElleo: you around?15:37
macmaNwhat happened to
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djszapinothing, works oob15:37
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macmaNoh. youre right15:37
macmaNduh nm, i confused with sheerwater for filemanager's pre-store source15:38
macmaNdjszapi: how much would you hate some annoyingly newb questions right now15:38
macmaNsuch as how do i check available credentials of develsh15:39
djszapiaccli -I15:39
baptxSomeone knows how to delete my corrupted .signon folder (aegis)15:40
djszapisorry, but what aegis ?15:40
djszapiit is a simple linux deletion operation ...15:41
baptxI found the same problem here
djszapiuse the channel log in topic and proper permalinks to the relevant post(s)15:41
baptxWe can't delete /home/user/.signon with with rm -f15:41
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macmaNoo, interesting cap list15:42
djszapibaptx: could do without any issues15:42
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baptx06:17.33jonniCorsac: if your device asks for account passwords everytime, then your OTA updated corrupted /home/user/.signon,  fixable by rm -rf /home/user/.signon  and recreating accounts15:43
baptx06:23.04jonniCorsac: as root,  rm `apscli -s signon-private:Se -lu`15:43
djszapiI do not understand the problem ...15:44
Corsacbaptx: that command won't return anything though15:44
djszapiowned by user15:44
djszapiuser can remove it.15:44
baptxSorry but I'm searching why I cannot with Twitter client15:45
ElleomacmaN: yep?15:45
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baptx*cannot connect15:45
baptxit seems .signon folder is corrupted and I cannot delete it...15:46
macmaNElleo: no nm :> your repo works fine15:46
macmaNElleo: im about to try to execute openvpn15:46
macmaNwell, apt-get install it first15:46
macmaNon pr1.115:46
Corsacnote that removing .signon without deleting accounts leads to surprising results15:48
Corsacthe accounts are still there, but it asks me to sign in to ""15:48
djszapithat is not a surprise actually :)15:48
djszapiif you remove the signon :)15:48
macmaNdjszapi: accli -b /usr/bin/openvpn is the eventual goal?15:48
Corsacwell, it's a surprise that the accounts are still there :)15:48
Corsacdjszapi: should I first remove the accounts?15:49
baptxhello corsac, the problem has just started when I've deleted my twitter account!15:49
djszapimacmaN: what is your goal ?15:49
macmaN(requires tcb) means adding the harmattan sdk repo i guess15:49
macmaNdjszapi: find out what caps openvpn requires15:49
baptxI'm on PR1.0 and want to find a fix before updating15:50
djszapimacmaN: study the openvpn source code15:50
djszapior use binary scanners like OVI does. The Linux kernel is a good reference for that, and systemtap15:50
macmaNaccli --help shows15:51
macmaN -b <filename> to show or test the credentials of a binary (requires tcb)15:51
macmaNthat sounds exactly like what i want15:51
djszapithat does sound exactly what you never want15:51
macmaNoh the confusionz15:52
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macmaNoh, tcb is some uber token15:55
macmaNi thought it was some external util15:55
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ElleomacmaN: good luck :)15:57
djszapican someone give the output of this command please ? dpkg -l system-softwares15:58
djszapidpkg -l system-services*15:58
djszapidpkg -s system-services | grep Version -> or just this one15:59
macmaN# dpkg -s system-services | grep Version15:59
macmaNVersion: 0.235+0m615:59
djszapiX-Fade ^15:59
Corsacdjszapi: so, any idea>16:00
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CorsacX-Fade: btw, in Apps For Meego app, could there be an “All” category?16:00
djszapiCorsac: any idea for what ?16:00
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X-FadeCorsac: You didn't run update today, now did you?16:01
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CorsacX-Fade: hmhm, at least it didn't (yet) warn me16:01
Corsacthere was an upgrade yesterday night though16:01
X-FadeCorsac: do a manual update then, I pushed a new version this morning.16:01
Corsacdjszapi: about what is the correct procedure (besides removing .signon folder) to bring back normal behavior (correctly remembering the accounts passwords)16:02
djszapino clue since I have never had such an issue16:02
Corsacinteresting, the recreated .signon folder is 777 while the original one was 77116:05
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CorsacX-Fade: I upgraded Apps4Meego, and there's still no “All” category that I can see16:41
djszapififerboy o/16:42
X-FadeCorsac: 0.9.5 has all.16:42
fiferboydjszapi: Hi16:42
Corsachmhm, when you told me to upgrade, only 0.9.4 was available :)16:42
* Corsac re-upgrades16:43
djszapififerboy: long time no seen you :)16:44
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fiferboydjszapi: Yeah, real life got in the way :/16:45
fiferboyIn a good way, though16:45
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CorsacX-Fade: thanks, works fine :)16:54
nid0I had a new icon randomly appear in my apps list last night/this morning, its a white downarrow with a horizontal line under it, has no text description, does nothing, and cant be directly deleted - any clues what it might be?16:55
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Ech_I'm trying to get .log to html setup using the thats used here.17:12
Ech_Anyone familiar with it able to help me out?17:13
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Piru :P17:27
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griPiru: This looks infected, reflash it :)17:31
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Piru all better now, well sort of ;)17:34
decibytehaha! yikes.17:35
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Ech_Figured it out.. Had to use the full path :-P17:38
Ech_Have fun with the Nokia's :)17:39
Ech_See ya17:39
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Arkenoiany metawatch users here?17:40
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deramPiru: which api are you using to get those?17:41
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Arkenoihmm, seems that my phone does not play flac anymore -- could i miss some sotware package? which one?17:47
Arkenoiit used to play with generic media player17:48
Arkenoii did restore form earlier backup then so something might be missing17:48
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Arkenoihmm, libflac8 seems to be present, but it does not play nor does it index17:55
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rm_workhey, anyone here speak french?18:01
nix-cyrusno parle france, pardon :) that's all I know18:02
Corsacrm_work: same :)18:04
cos^vin rouge s'il vous plaît18:04
rm_workCorsac helped me out :)18:06
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pinheiroaegis-loader: Failed loading policy for 'timetogo::/opt/TimeToGo/bin/TimeToGo'18:16
pinheirodpkg: status database area is locked by another process18:16
pinheiroaegis-installing timetogo (from '')18:16
pinheiroPackage timetogo: denied 'mce::TKLockControl' -- origin '' does not allow it18:16
pinheiroPackage timetogo: denied 'mce::TKLockControl' for '/opt/TimeToGo/bin/TimeToGo' -- origin '' does not allow it18:16
pinheiroaegis-loader: Failed loading policy for 'timetogo::/opt/TimeT18:16
pinheirosory for spam but18:16
pinheiroany idea?18:16
fralspkill pkgmgrd to get rid of "status database area is locked by another process" usually works for me18:18
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Piruderam: just using
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shreyaHi my N950 is stuck at the Nokia screen after update....18:55
shreyawhy?What to do?18:56
shreyaplease help19:00
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djszapiieatlint: meh, my wp application was declined because I did not provide enough information :)19:05
RST38hSamsung's Bada outshipped WinPho 7 in Q3. Android ahead of all; Symbian ahead of Apple.19:05
Corsacwe all know Maemo6 was way above everything19:06
RST38h(watch the Android share and weep)19:06
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nix-cyrusMaemo in Others?)19:09
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RST38hMaemo in Void.19:09
ieatlintnotice the comment on that page though, "CEO Tim Cook's company will take a staggering 66 per cent of the profit made by the world smartphone industry in 2011." ... even android is weeping at that19:10
ieatlintalthough i wonder if that accounts for google's advertising income19:11
ieatlintdjszapi: if you want a phone that badly, just watch for wp events hosted by nokia... they'll end up handing phones out at some of those i bet19:11
djszapiieatlint: I do not really care :)19:12
ieatlintyeah, it's just going to be anticlimactic19:13
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ieatlinti'm tired of the MS reps, who have this annoying charisma and seem thoroughly convinced they've invented a masterpiece19:13
ieatlinti just see poor explanations, restrictive dev environment (worse than aegis :P), and a distracting UI filled with blinking/shifting "tiles"19:15
djszapias I said: worse or not, windows is a gaming platform. We do not have too much other choice than trying to investigate.19:17
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djszapiX-Fade pingy :)19:47
MohammadAGso, Nokia's claiming the N950 back and are sending me another one tomorrow19:47
djszapisame issue locally about soprano ..19:47
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: hahah. :/19:47
RST38hThe DOJ will tell Congress that it wants to make it a prosecutable offense to violate a site's terms of service. You know, that thing no one ever reads, but we all agree too.19:47
MohammadAGwhy? lemme paste that19:47
SpeedEvilMohammadAG: insane.19:48
RST38hMohammad: ???19:48
E0x_MohammadAG: why they are doing that ?19:48
MohammadAGsec, lemme paste the bit Israel sent me19:48
SpeedEvilDoes the phone actually have a licence?19:49
SpeedEvilI remember it was approved in the US.19:49
MohammadAGso I forwarded that to Nokia and he replied to DHL Finland requesting the device back19:50
MohammadAGhe told me they'll send me another device tomorrow19:50
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: bwahahaha incredible19:50
MohammadAGhopefully since there are no holidays till 26/12, this one will arrive soon19:50
MohammadAGAs in Friday/Sunday19:50
RST38hMohammad: ahhahahahaha19:51
RST38hMohammad: Maybe it is easier to ship to Palestine instead? =)19:51
MohammadAGRST38h, hmm, didn't think of that19:51
MohammadAGbut I think walking to Finland's faster19:51
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, they'll "lose" it and you'll find it in some store for 10k19:51
DocScrutinizerfriggin easy to ship, impossible to get to final destination19:51
MohammadAGthat's how Jordan works anyway19:52
RST38hsounds familiar19:52
MohammadAGwell no, Israel has its reasons19:52
DocScrutinizerRST38h: nah, what you know is more alike IL customs19:52
MohammadAGthey made up FCC-like stuff19:52
MohammadAGthe whole delay was so they could code the website19:52
SputMohammadAG: so the second device will make it through, they hope?19:52
RST38hDoc: "Losing" stuff is very characteristic of the Russian Post19:53
MohammadAGSput, I'm sure it will19:53
MohammadAGand I must say, they're slow,
RST38hDoc: As to customs, DHL isn't even delivering to .RU any more19:53
MohammadAGseriously, that's bad coding for a month19:53
SputMohammadAG: how come? does the second device have a proper license?19:53
MohammadAGSput, no, but there's no holiday where the device could get lost19:53
MohammadAGI already got one N950, and returned it19:53
DocScrutinizerRST38h: ooh, so now they stopped completely?19:54
MohammadAGalso according to the list there's someone else in Israel who got an N95019:54
MohammadAGso clearly it was admitted in twice19:54
RST38hDoc: No point to, given that customs usually require 70-100% of the item price in fees19:54
MohammadAGbut this time there was a jewish 2 week holiday between the time it reached Israel and the time it was supposed to reach me19:54
MohammadAGso it got lost in sorting somehow and ended up in the IL FCC19:54
djszapiso any cmake and pkg-config superlord here ?19:54
RST38hDoc: EMS is the only sane way nowadays19:54
MohammadAGRST38h, weird19:55
MohammadAGI was taxed 200% once19:55
RST38hDoc: they have got preferential treatment19:55
MohammadAGand apparently 17% of something that has a price of 0 is not 019:55
DocScrutinizerwhatever is EMS19:55
RST38hMohammad: they tried that with me as well once, I told them to send the item back, I do not care19:55
MohammadAGas in, 17% of 0 != 019:55
MohammadAGremind me why I'm going to uni here again19:55
DocScrutinizerextremely mean smuggling?19:55
MohammadAGRST38h, I refused to pay19:55
ieatlintwell.. this morning i've learnt that even if n950 is off, if an alarm is set, it will turn on to sound it, and then immediately turn off again once the alarm is stopped19:55
MohammadAGthe item was with me19:56
RST38hMohammad: because nobody else is admitting you? =)19:56
MohammadAGRST38h, well no, because I actually didn't apply anywhere :p19:56
RST38hMohammad: because you love the country, the people, and the culture? 8)19:56
Sputieatlint: many phones do that, but apparently the Lumia fails at that19:56
MohammadAGI only applied to the technion, biggest gamble in my llife19:56
MohammadAGRST38h, I also love the security and fast shipping services19:56
Sputor, Windows Phone19:56
RST38hDoc: Nah, just another private postal service19:56
MohammadAGLumia FTW19:56
MohammadAGwhen are we getting it?19:57
DocScrutinizerieatlint: that's how it's supposed to work19:57
MohammadAGthat way I can tell customs to swap my N950 for it19:57
RST38hMohammad: You can still transfer to somewhere19:57
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MohammadAGimagine if some Nokia pissed off engineer rigged all Lumias19:57
MohammadAGand they'll all exploded at some point19:57
Sputnah, different teams19:57
MohammadAGand he'll laugh and laugh and laugh19:57
Sputthe guys with reason to be pissed are probably not working in the Lumia teams :)19:58
DocScrutinizerSput: hookes don't wake you, they lift your purse and watch and sneak out19:58
SputI've seen some people using that phone, I wasn't impressed19:58
Sputthe hardware is worse than the N9's19:58
Sputand the UI looks like a clusterfuck19:58
Sputcombined with a car accident19:58
SputI do envy them for the camera button though.19:59
ieatlintyeah, well, now i know i need to turn off alarms before i change phones19:59
Sputno idea how they could leave that out on the N9xx19:59
Sputieatlint: same thing happened when I retired my C7 :)19:59
RST38hMohammad: won't be too many lumias to make a difference19:59
SputI was like, wtf19:59
djszapibtw, speaking of C7...19:59
djszapigot one at the qt dev days...Has anybody actually tried bella on that ?19:59
Sputthat's the official symbian that came OTA?20:00
Sputif so, I did20:00
djszapiI had Anna on it20:00
SputI keep confusing all those codenames20:00
SputI know there was a major update a couple months ago20:00
Sputwhich, surprisingly, went well and didn't kill any of my data (try that on MeeGo!)20:01
ieatlinti've tried bella on an n8, but only anna on a c720:01
djszapieverybody was liking Bella so far as I heard.20:02
djszapithat is why I motivated enough to try it out20:02
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Sputdo you get that officially for the C7?20:03
ieatlintbella is slow on the n8..20:03
ieatlinti have a 701 here too, which comes with bella, and i can say it's an improvement over anna, but still symbian, heh20:04
MohammadAGI wonder if Nokia will ever get the N950 in customs20:06
npmspeaking of symbian, i've got some requests to port to symbian and someone working on it.... how does one go about getting a 701 for devel/porting from Nokia?20:06
MohammadAGor if it'll stay there forever20:06
MohammadAGnpm, I'd try contacting ddp.program at nokia dot com20:06
djszapiieatlint: you are a rassist :)20:07
djszapinot liking symbian, wp, ehhh :)20:07
npmhave others gotten new "anna" phones for devel on here?20:07
ieatlinthating is what i do best20:07
Sputwell, the newer symbians weren't that bad, but I wouldn't switch back from MeeGo and Swipe :)20:07
npmMohammadAG: thanks20:07
MohammadAGuse Google maps and it'll be perfect btw20:08
npmi wouldn't mind having a 701 to avoid wear and tear from having n950 be my daily phone20:08
ieatlintthe 701 is nice20:08
ieatlintcamera sucks, but it has nfc20:09
MohammadAGI'm using a Galaxy SII right now20:09
ieatlintreally not a bad phone, but yeah.. me no like symbian20:09
MohammadAGI must say the screen is the awesomest one I've ever seen in my life20:09
MohammadAGthe battery life is awesome20:09
MohammadAGthe OS sucks20:09
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npmMohammadAG: on the 701?20:09
MohammadAGno, the galaxy SII20:09
npmoh. sorry missed that line20:10
ieatlintthe 701 has many of the same features via nfc that the n9 does, but i haven't seen them advertised as much20:10
ieatlintlike sharing pictures via nfc/bluetooth20:10
ieatlintor vcards20:10
MohammadAGieatlint, yeah, not advertising them makes the N9 looks better20:10
MohammadAGsame as Apple not including Siri on the iPhone 420:11
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MohammadAGit can run on the 3GS, but having an exclusive feature pushes salew20:11
ieatlintnot the same when the feature is there on the 70120:11
npmi got a question about NFC... is there a way of easily printing your own. so that you could create different "contexts" like "being in the office" "being in car" "being in kitchen" etc20:11
MohammadAGthe Galaxy SII is the slowest I've seen a phone charge20:11
ieatlintnpm: you mean have a tag that you scan and it changes your profile?20:12
npmbecause GPS doesn't work inside a building, and I'm looking for ability to identify where you are:
SpeedEvilYou know N is really N?20:12
npmieatlint: basically. i'm thinking of "geolocating inside buildings"20:12
SpeedEvilAs in under 5cm?20:12
npmyeah, you'd have to "touch"20:12
npmmaybe like you'd have a keyless entry using it20:13
npmand that would also signal to your device that you were in that room20:13
SpeedEvilIR-qcodes on the ceiling.20:13
ieatlintnpm: you can very easily create a custom tag type, and register your application to handle them, so that when tagged, the phone starts your app20:13
RST38hVariety reports that David Yates, who directed the last four Harry Potter films, is teaming up with the BBC to turn its iconic sci-fi TV series Doctor Who into a Hollywood franchise.20:13
ieatlintand read/writing tags via qt-mobility is very easy20:13
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ieatlinttapping your phone on a tag every time you enter a room sounds like some sort of OCD fit20:15
ieatlintmake sure you count the number of tiles too20:15
npmieatlint: re:  scan and it changes your profile? -- closer to giving you easy access to all the things you said and did previously at that location (e.g. phone numbers, web searches, etc) kinda like a location-based for handsets20:16
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djszapizeitgeist :o20:16
rzrhi kernels hackers20:17
djszapirzr hi open source warrior !20:17
RST38hSpeedEvil: sad.20:17
rzrare there usables nfs.ko for our babies20:17
RST38hMoo CepiPerez20:17
RST38hrzr: you really want nfs there?20:18
DocScrutinizernpm: there's a PoC of "geolocating" in buildings based on special WLAN APs only20:18
RST38hthought about it real well?20:18
rzrdjszapi: did test Da PlaZmoid oN da TaBleet20:18
RST38hconsidered what happens when your device loses connectivity for 5-10 minutes?20:18
SputI found it ironic that the tags Nokia distributed at DevDays everywhere weren't supported by the N9s they gave away20:18
Sputmy C7 actually opened a link, the N9 just said "oh, there's a tag" and did nothing20:18
rzrRST38h: yes I plan to use a nfs chroot ... but it's a bit overkill20:19
gabriel9for seome reason i can't deploy public key with qt creator to my N920:19
ieatlintSput: yeah, the latest firmware update does handle it20:19
griSput: You have to update to 1.120:19
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RST38hrzr: ok, consider yourself warned20:19
ieatlintyou needed to be running >34-120:19
npmDocScrutinizer: that's a good point, but that would work better in an office. it wouldn't work in my home (e.g. kitchen and office) all work on same router.20:19
Sputat least I could activate the extra Angry Bird levels, but alas I lost them in a firmware upgrade20:19
djszapiwhy N9 instead of N10 in the first place ? :D20:19
gabriel9all params are ok, but it says Connection refused20:19
Sputgri: yeah, but that wasn't out at DevDays :)20:19
Sputyou actually got three tags in the N9 package that didn't do anything20:20
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griSput: On some signs on dev days there was a subtitle "n9 firmware update for proper nfc support is coming soon"20:20
DocScrutinizernpm: you need a minimum of 3 APs no mtter what20:20
Sputgri: ah, didn't notice20:20
djszapirzr: so you are now mr. plasma tablet ? :)20:20
npm<RST38h> -- how about NFS over USB networking? I'm digging using fuse-sshfs over USB network between meego netbook and n95020:21
ieatlinti really don't know why it took them so long to get ndef tags working on the public release of the n920:21
npmseems to transfer stuff pretty fast, even w/ extra encryption in SSH20:21
* npm wants fuse-sshfs for harmattan20:22
ieatlintand they never got most of the qt-mobility nfc features working on the n9, and never will20:22
rzrdjszapi: well its a good start but i can not say it will replace gnome-shell20:22
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DocScrutinizernpm: and honestly I think is probably cheaper to use tin foil backed wallpapers and a separate standard AP for each room rather than "print" your own NFC tags and whatnot20:22
npmieatlint: interesting... so to do future NFC stuff, i should get a 701 anyways then and not an n920:22
djszapirzr: gnome3 and unity are way better than PA, tm20:22
djszapiX-Fade: /var/tmp/build-root/usr/include/raptor2/raptor.h -> it is there :o20:22
rzrnpm: is there fuse for harmattan ?20:22
djszapithere is20:23
djszapiaegisfs is fuse fs based20:23
ieatlintnpm: symbian handles nfc much better than the n9, but depending on what you want to do, the n9 is sufficient20:23
djszapiI fixed actually many issues in upstream fuse20:23
djszapiwhile working on aegisfs20:23
rzrgood i will dig into that too20:23
npmcool. one of these days will need to try20:23
djszapifuse had really serious vulnerabilities.20:23
ieatlintthe way the n9 handles nfc is weird20:23
rzrnpm: i did try to build sshfs20:24
npmieatlint: thanks for the info on nfs... DocScrutinizer ... thanks for the perspective on pricing nfc tag pring...20:24
djszapiX-Fade: /var/tmp/build-root/usr/lib/ -> even, this is there.20:24
npmit's not something i expect to do until after 1.0 is out, but want to get familiar (and i'm not since i have no devices for it)20:24
ieatlintwhen you read a tag, a blue bar pops down at the top of the screen with an nfc logo, right?20:24
ieatlintwell, no way to turn that off20:24
ieatlintand any application-level read/write operations start when that blue bar goes away20:25
npmieatlint: nfs/sshfs20:25
ieatlintso he user inherently thinks that the operation finished, but instead it just began20:25
npmah, so a few issues to work out anyways20:25
ieatlintand they got lazy on error reporting, so you can only get a generic failure message20:25
ieatlinttrying to write content too big for a given tag? generic failure.  tag removed before operation completed? generic failure. unknown tag type? generic failure.  trying to write data to a locked tag? generic failure, etc20:26
ieatlintimpossible to tell the user what went wrong20:26
DocScrutinizerieatlint: settings->"confirm connection and transmission" ?20:26
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: that's for things like confirming pairing with bluetooth via nfc20:27
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DocScrutinizerI got not even a NFC tag here to test anything with that20:27
djszapiwhat is up pabs3 ?20:27
ieatlintif that setting is turned off, your phone won't prompt you before sharing a photo via nfc, or connecting to an "nfc enabled" bluetooth headset20:28
gabriel9oh man even goolge is not helping20:28
djszapigabriel9: why not scp ?20:28
gabriel9what in the seven suns is that?20:28
ieatlintit's an illicit drug20:28
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ieatlintand they're using peer pressure, run20:28
djszapiscp ~/.ssh/ root@
djszapior whatever your precise arguments are.20:29
gabriel9i presume that i need to enter that command in my N9?20:30
djszapion the host..20:30
DocScrutinizerwhich command?20:30
gabriel9windows 720:30
djszapiuse putty20:30
djszapiand similar services.20:30
DocScrutinizerooh THAT command, yeah20:31
gabriel9i have putty20:31
djszapieither that or fix your qtcreator.20:32
gabriel9and with putty i get connection refused20:34
djszapigabriel9: are you in developer mode ?20:34
gabriel9something is wrong with my device20:34
djszapihas it ever worked ?20:34
ieatlintare you connected via usb?20:34
djszapigabriel9: SDK mode ?20:34
gabriel9it has worked20:34
gabriel9sdk mode20:34
djszapido you have the password ?20:34
ieatlintand did you set the usb ethernet interface on your host computer?20:35
djszapiifconfig usb0 up on the host ?20:35
djszapior something like that on windows..20:35
ieatlintwin7, there is no ifconfig20:35
gabriel9it worked as i know20:35
grigabriel9: You have to set the ip address to static on the computer's usb network adapter20:35
djszapigabriel9: ipconfig /all or something like that20:35
Mekand sdk mode should have dhcp server on the phone, so no need for the ifconfig to explicitly set ip address20:35
gridhcp on the phone never worked for me20:36
djszapiI always had to set it up actually20:36
ieatlintnever tried it here20:36
gabriel9it worked as i know20:36
ieatlinti normally just connect via wifi20:36
djszapigabriel9: you can also set it up in the graphical interface I guess20:36
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djszapiieatlint: except on the airplane20:36
ieatlinttrue, i used usb there20:37
gabriel9i set it up manually20:37
gabriel9it is all set on Win20:37
gabriel9i can ping the device20:37
djszapigabriel9: you do ont use root right ?20:38
gabriel9but it refuses connection20:38
djszapiyou try developer right ?20:38
djszapiroot was declined after the ssu update thingie..20:38
gabriel9i started developer mode20:38
djszapithat is not enough ...20:38
ieatlintyeah, but you wouldn't get connection refused for root20:38
djszapitry this: ssh developer@
ieatlintyou'd get an auth error20:38
djszapithe connection is refused for root as is20:39
ieatlintbut you need to connect in order for it to know the user name is root20:39
djszapithat is the idea, if the practice is different, that is probably a bug.20:39
ieatlintit'll just give you an auth error, same as though you mistyped a password20:40
djszapigabriel9: at any rate, try with "developer".20:40
djszapiieatlint: that is an implementation bug20:40
gabriel9i added developer in putty for username20:40
griUsing username "root".20:40
griServer refused our key20:40
gabriel9and coonection timed up20:40
griis my putty output here20:40
griso it asks for password even on root20:40
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ieatlintdjszapi: uh, it's not20:40
djszapithat is actually a very serious bug20:40
ieatlintit's how ssh works20:40
djszapiI need to investigate tomorow20:41
djszapiroot should be refused per se20:41
djszapishould not ask any authentication20:41
ieatlintyou need to connect in order to start the login operation, which is when you give the username root20:41
grisince ssh should not tell you which user exists and which not20:41
ieatlintgri is correct20:41
djszapino, it is quite incorrect20:41
ieatlintit should act identically for root as it should for the user "fsdgjdkslfj"20:41
djszapiroot should not be asked for authentication20:41
djszapiit should be dropped20:41
djszapiif authentication is asked, that is a serious bug20:42
ieatlintit's not a bug, nor is it a security risk20:42
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griUsing username "helloworld".20:42
griServer refused our key20:42
djszapi20:40 < gri> so it asks for password even on root20:42
ieatlintit never tries to authenticate the root password or checks a key..20:42
djszapiit is a /huge/ bug20:42
djszapivery /huge/20:42
djszapiif it asks for root password20:42
griit does ask but not check the password20:42
griit denies at every time20:43
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djszapiso it does not ask ...20:43
grilike it does with "helloworld"20:43
djszapiand works as we designed.20:43
griit asks for password20:43
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grilike on every other non-existant user20:43
grisince ssh should not tell you which user you are allowed to use20:43
djszapiyes of course it should20:43
ieatlintgabriel9: you can't deny geeks their pedantic discussions20:43
djszapithat is the damn configuration you fill in.20:43
djszapiwhere you tell it explicitely to ssh20:44
ieatlintwe each know we're right, and damnit, we need to PROVE IT20:44
gabriel9i hate admins20:44
gabriel9and networks20:44
gabriel9let me just code20:44
ieatlinti'm not an admin20:44
djszapiyou are a code monkey ? :)20:44
gabriel9on my job there is always some problems wit network ssh persmisions20:45
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ieatlinti have the best job right now, i get paid to press enter, wait an hour for a build to complete, see what was fixed, spend 10min making changes and repeat20:45
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griieatlint: In my old company a complete rebuild took 6 hours due to bad library architecture :D coffee time all day20:46
nix-cyrusgabriel9: rsa-keys should resolve all problems)20:46
gabriel9nice job20:46
djszapinix-cyrus: without being able to log in ?20:46
gabriel9i code like a monkey20:46
ieatlintgri: yeah, they're supposed to install a device that will allow me to watch movies today20:46
ieatlint(no, really)20:46
ieatlintshould help :P20:47
nix-cyrusdjszapi: why?20:47
djszapinix-cyrus: because you need to log in before you get that ...20:47
ieatlintnix-cyrus: root login isn't allow, regardless of authentication type20:47
ieatlintso rsa keys won't help20:47
ieatlintthe "developer" user account is what is required20:47
djszapinix-cyrus: unless you download it explicitely from somewhere.20:47
djszapior edit manually lol20:48
djszapibut even that, the networking should work anyways20:48
gabriel9oh man do i need to read book to login on my device :D20:48
djszapigabriel9: no, just check the steps we already said20:48
ieatlintgabriel9: knowing how the networking side works is generally a good idea too :P20:48
djszapisome of them did not pass at your place.20:48
gabriel9i don't have time20:49
gabriel9i constantly learn something new20:49
gabriel9research department20:49
gabriel9and i hae girlfriend20:49
* gri wishes to have the same ... today we learned "what is a state machine?" at university :/20:49
ieatlintmy girlfriend is a sysadmin, she can explain ssh to you if you'd like20:49
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djszapigabriel9: also, try wi-fi if ssh is really that desperate lol20:50
ieatlintshe's probably too busy scapegoating someone else for server downtime actually20:50
gabriel9my router is tosted20:50
djszapiwhat server, ? :D20:50
djszapithat is a synonym for downtime :D20:51
ieatlintnah, a social networking one that is also known for downtime (not twitter)20:51
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KRFerrm, does a "nokia lumina" (not the 'n') exist or do *several* newspapers mis-spell the phone's name?20:53
KRFnote the 'n' even20:54
ieatlintmisspell methinks20:54
gabriel9jesus christ it works affter i turned on developer mode20:55
gabriel9restart my device20:55
gabriel9and then turn it off20:55
gabriel9and then turn it off20:55
ieatlintthe phone has to be facing north for it to work20:55
gabriel9great, i should go and run two circles around my building to work20:55
KRFa search for 'nokia "lumina"' on google gives me a huge number of hits20:56
ieatlintit's a feature designed to make you more location aware20:56
djszapigabriel9: well, you messed up your network previously20:56
djszapiand instead of fixing that, reboot helped.20:56
djszapino wonder here.20:56
djszapihappens with me, too.20:56
ieatlintdid you try turning it off and on again?20:56
djszapiI sometimes even need to reboot the host..20:57
djszapiThough, I had the impression you started from a clean paper ;)20:57
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gabriel9but when i turn off developer mode and restart my device and then turn on developer mode again i can't connect20:57
gabriel9like i need to login like developer20:57
djszapiyes, of course20:57
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ieatlintyou cannot connect as root20:58
ieatlintand for application development, you shouldn't anyway20:58
gabriel9so i am root on my phone?20:58
gabriel9when i just use it20:58
ieatlintno, you're "user" on your phone20:58
djszapiyou are a developer20:58
djszapiHence, developer uesr20:59
ieatlintyou should develop with the user account "developer"20:59
djszapiwhen you do not developer, you are a user20:59
djszapisimple enough :)20:59
gabriel9but i can install apps20:59
ieatlintyou can access root via "devel-su" run by either user or developer20:59
griwell, for some parts it's better to use the "user" user for development :)21:00
gabriel9when i'm user21:00
grino you can't21:00
djszapigabriel9: yes, of course you can21:00
griyou start a process which runs as root21:00
djszapifrom the ui21:00
djszapibut the pkgmgrd does the magic for you there.21:00
djszapisince it has the proper ability for that21:00
gabriel9so i need to restart my device every time when i want to develop21:00
djszapimeh, not ...21:01
ieatlintgabriel9: you're doing something wrong, but i don't have a clear explanation of what it is21:02
grigabriel9: For development, you add your "developer" user account data to QtCreator. When clicking "run on device", QtCreator creates a packages, connects to the phone, deploys the package, installs it as root and runs it as "developer" again21:02
ieatlintyou shouldn't need to reboot at all21:02
nix-cyrusbtw is there PyCreator for PySide?)21:03
gabriel9but i need to revboot21:03
djszapiQtCreator sucks for Python21:03
djszapiuse kdevelop for python21:03
griIt would be pretty annoying to reboot everytime you click "run on device"21:03
djszapithey have a great amount of support for that...21:03
gabriel9well i can deploy now21:04
gabriel9without restart21:04
djszapipebkac ;-)21:04
gabriel9but when i reboot without developer mode turned on i must turn it on reboot and then develop21:04
* ieatlint nods21:04
ieatlintwhy are you toggling developer mode?21:05
* gri never turned it off21:05
ieatlintyeah, i just leave it on...21:05
ZogG_laptopgabriel9: just flash the device =D21:05
gabriel9lol and if i destroy something i will die21:06
ZogG_laptopi never developed anything for n9 yet and even i have it on21:06
ZogG_laptopgabriel9: you can always sell yourself for parts =)21:06
nix-cyrusme too vahe it on always)21:06
ZogG_laptopIT IS ON!! F... YEAH \o?21:07
* djszapi dislikes pkg-config21:07
ZogG_laptopdjszapi: why is that?21:07
ieatlintpkg-config has been good to me21:07
djszapiZogG_laptop: try to debug it ...21:08
djszapiam having serious pains about it ...21:08
ieatlintdebug it?21:08
djszapiyes of course21:08
djszapiwhen a version is not found in your build system21:08
ieatlintit just gives the location of headers and libs21:09
ieatlintthere isn't that much to it21:09
djszapiwhat else can you do ? Let me know ;)21:09
ieatlinti can pretend to work pretty well21:09
djszapiwho invented pkg-config was not really sober21:09
ieatlintfew unix devs are21:09
djszapipkg-config has nothing to do with only unix21:11
nix-cyrusconfused it with bsd's pkgsrc :D21:11
gabriel9why this is not ArchLinux21:12
gabriel9i put CD inside and reinstall21:12
gabriel9set up my system21:12
gabriel9and good to go21:12
djszapiarchlinux ftw :)21:12
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* ieatlint is on gentoo21:13
djszapithough, it is sad they do not have static qemu21:13
nix-cyrus+1 to archers :)21:13
gabriel9i'm not big noob21:13
gabriel9what is navifirm=21:13
djszapifull of illegal stuff21:14
ieatlinta utility that accesses nokia's servers to download firmware images21:14
gabriel9so i can download my image?21:14
djszapiyour image ?21:14
djszapican you show us your firmware ? :)21:15
ieatlintbut you'll void your warranty, and technically violate copyright21:15
gabriel9i have device which i messed up21:15
gabriel9so what now?21:15
grigabriel9: You can also try using the Nokia Software Updater21:15
ieatlint(although it may not be detectable by nokia, i don't know :)21:15
gabriel9i tried to use it21:15
gabriel9and nothing21:15
gabriel9they sey update will come in couple of weaks21:16
griwhat exactly is "and nothing"?21:16
gabriel9no updates21:16
gabriel9everyone is talking about updates21:17
gabriel9but i can't see them21:17
ieatlintyeah, 40-4 is out now21:17
grihow old is your nsu version? is it up to date?21:17
ieatlintdjszapi: out of curiosity, are you on a later version? :)21:17
ieatlinti've only seen as far as 40-4, but week 40 was quite a while ago21:18
djszapiieatlint: yes, always the daily image of course21:18
grigabriel9: This is the newest21:18
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ieatlintgood to hear they're still working on it then21:18
gabriel9yea i know21:18
grigabriel9: For mine it worked and also states that 40-4 is online21:19
gabriel9i see it21:19
gabriel9on this website21:19
MohammadAGdjszapi, they still release daily images?21:20
MohammadAGwhat if Nokia sends me a non-CE device by mistake :)21:20
* SpeedEvil imagines MohammadAG receiving a win-CE device.21:20
MohammadAGI already have a WinCE device21:21
MohammadAGand a WM5.0 device21:21
MohammadAGflashed to a custom (probably illegal) 6.5 ROM21:21
MohammadAGslow as fuck though, 64MBs of RAM :P21:21
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Arkenoiis there 40-4 for n950?21:22
gabriel9on denmark website there is no update21:22
griArkenoi: 39-5 should be about the same21:22
* Arkenoi tries to catch javispedro online 21:22
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DocScrutinizerincredible how all those nokia sites as e.g the URL above instantly kill my konqueror with a segfault21:23
gabriel9chrome also died21:23
gabriel9flash player21:23
gabriel9is problem21:24
djszapiso who said pkg-config is easy-peasy cakewalk ?21:24
DocScrutinizerfsckng flash on a service site21:24
DocScrutinizerthanks Nokia!21:25
grimy firefox does not complain anything here :)21:25
gabriel9DocScrutinizer don't suffer your browser21:25
gabriel9it says on the site that there is no update21:25
gabriel9for N921:25
gabriel9i hate that region shit21:26
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BluesLeeis it safe to remove apps which are installed by default, for instance user guide, calculator etc?21:28
BluesLeeis it safe just to rename the desktop files to a.desktop.backup?21:29
SpeedEvilI pulled 'modest' in pr1.0 of the n900, as it saved a reasonable amount of RAM.21:29
SpeedEvilapt-get remove modest on more recent releases won't work.21:29
SpeedEvilI suspect that may cause issues with aegis.21:29
griBluesLee: Should be safe21:30
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BluesLeei also think that this guy called aegis does not like that:-)21:31
BluesLeehe must be very mighty, hehe21:31
griaegis does not care about renaming .desktop files21:31
griit would prevent you from starting renamed binaries21:32
djszapiBluesLee: ubuntu does like if you break the whole system from the ground up ?21:32
BluesLeegri: i checked that but what happens if the complete package is updated?21:32
djszapior basically any distributions ?21:32
griBluesLee: Then the file is restored21:32
griand your renamed one remains forever until you delete it manually21:33
BluesLeedjszapi: its a matter of organizing the launcher screen, as long as we do not have folders/categories people like me will do that21:33
djszapiand actually, it is sytem-services which puts you into MALF state anyway...21:33
BluesLeegri: thanx21:33
djszapiso you are confusing many things here.21:34
djszapiI would seriously doubt a missing calculator would break the system21:34
npmso it seems like the best way to hack an n9 to figure out a way to replace a desktop file. then when the user clicks an expected icon, unexpected program runs?21:34
npmthat, plus aegis not looking at qml files seems potentially dangerous (from security perspective)21:35
djszapinpm sorry ??21:36
djszapihow could that be dangerous ?21:36
djszapiall that a qml can invoke are indeed checked.21:37
npmsomeone rewrites the launcher top qmltube.desktop to invoke Controller.deleteFile on some file that sholdnh't be deleted21:37
djszapiqml is not a system command or script per se.21:37
npmit is once you have C code interfaced to it21:37
djszapicontroler.deleteFile should not be there.21:37
npmwhich inevitably you will21:37
djszapiand that is done anyway21:37
npmhow else can you delete a file?21:37
BluesLeecan someone explain what aegis does exactly?21:37
djszapiBluesLee: rtfm21:37
djszapinpm: you cannot delete a file if it does not make snse21:38
BluesLeedjszapi: is the fm pdf installed on my n9?21:38
djszapiand it is decided way more lower-level than any qmlS21:38
* djszapi sees no danger in qml files...21:38
npmif you don't like it complain to Stuart Howarth21:38
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npmpure javascript is not dangerous21:38
npmbut just like JNI in android, you have to start making external calls21:38
npmand those are potentially dangerous and unchecked21:39
djszapiBluesLee: read the SDK please.21:39
djszapinpm: I think you are now mixing up things21:39
npmplus, one could easily slip in a modification to the code21:39
djszapinpm does not have direct access to is a very high level file ...21:39
npmqml doesn't but C++ does21:40
djszapiit accesses to lower-level stuff, which /must/ be defended21:40
npmand you talk to C++ in a qml program that does anything of significance21:40
djszapinot qmlS...21:40
npmwell i'm just talking about what i've seen and used21:40
djszapiC++ will be defended21:40
djszapiqml does require no special treatments.21:40
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npmhow can you defend against a call that will perhaps run a network DOS?21:41
djszapiI do not even understand the question tbh :)21:41
npmwhich would be indistinguishable from one that isn't other than perhaps some parameters or frequency of issuance21:41
djszapiwell, I can just repeat myself21:42
djszapiif low-level is defended, high-level can vomit blood... cannot really still attack.21:42
npmso how does it prevent calls to Controller.deleteFile() ??21:42
djszapiby policies and ovi QA obviously.21:43
djszapiit is not any different to any other case.21:43
npmbut that's the point. the QML will work fine at ovi qa.21:43
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djszapisorry, but do not mix up the things21:43
djszapiyou were speaking about aegis21:43
npmand then if i figure out a way to get a differnt program to alter some QML... it's no longer safe. and it was never seen by QA21:43
djszapiovi QA is a vastly rather different process21:43
npmyes. aegis doesn't keep signatures of QML21:43
djszapialso, you cannot delete stuff you do not have capability to21:44
npmif it did, then apps would be safe21:44
djszapiand that is completely irrelevant to QML21:44
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djszapithe low-level stuff must be defended against that21:44
npmit's not irrelevant to real world programs that use qml21:44
djszapias I said many times, already ...21:44
djszapiI think you do not see the forest from the tree.21:45
npmrepeating yourself doesn't make you right21:45
djszapiwe cannot really defend against every high-level format which is the point of a simple interpreter anyway21:45
djszapiwhat should be defended is the underlying operation21:45
npmright. so you sign the QML files. sign the desktop files. end of story21:45
djszapithere is an application with certain purposes, it needs to have those credentials, nothing more, period21:46
npmthat way what QA validates is what is known to be running on your handset21:46
djszapieven if you change the qml file to your superlord cracker stuff, it will never own those cracker capabilities.21:46
npmi'm sure there's a file Controller.deleteFile() could hit and cause you trouble :-)21:47
djszapiso your superlord cracker ability went nowhere anyway21:47
djszapi21:45 < npm> right. so you sign the QML files. sign the desktop files. end of story -> not really no21:47
djszapiwe have an own format in Gluon which took me like few days to code the interpreter for21:47
djszapiit is really not the way of going. This is a really bad approach imho21:47
djszapisince it is just impossible to do this way21:48
BluesLeesomeone wrote that its not possible to run a simple script or dmesg21:49
djszapiyou do want to have certain files customizable, but how to decide ? There is no rationale for that. All the ways that can come into the picture is defending the underlying operation, and that is done -> no vulnerability21:49
BluesLeeseems to work well21:49
djszapiif you think you have this superlord cracker use case, why not provide to me ?21:49
BluesLeeis there are a list what works and what not?21:50
Sputlast time I tried, dmesg worked fine on the N921:50
BluesLeei can also run scripts21:50
djszapithe point is that, there is no need for dmesg21:50
djszapi but of course it was not possible in the past21:50
djszapiwhen we discussed, so please do not troll21:50
Sputdjszapi: it's possible again though?21:50
npm^^^ one solution21:50
djszapiSput: we implement those things, we decide about those :)21:51
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V13ehlo. is git available for n950 ?21:51
djszapinpm: sounds really funny :)21:51
djszapimy interpreter was written in few days as I said.21:51
Sputyeah, it's just that I remember the discussion back in the N950 days, when PR 1.1 came out, and I was actually surprised that it worked on the N9 post-update :)21:51
djszapihow could we prepare for that at all :D :D21:51
djszapiV13: yes21:51
V13where? :-)21:51
* V13 still newbie in n95021:52
nix-cyrusV13: at in browser :)21:53
djszapinpm: solution for mozzila since they only use js :D :D21:53
djszapicompletely different theory than Harmattan21:53
V13nix-cyrus ? as source ?21:53
djszapianyway, I described, why that does not make sense and why the current system is designed well, but do feel free to prove me wrong in mail with workhorses...21:54
BluesLeeSput: honestly, i dont know the history, but i avoided writing scripts for one whole week, and now i learn that  it is no issue21:54
djszapimight be an implementation bug, but not design afaict21:54
djszapiV13 community repository21:54
djszapiV13 nix-cyrus was joking21:55
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djszapiM4rtinK o/21:55
V13oh :)21:55
djszapiSput: people just tend to know better the happenings than the developers doing the happenings :)21:56
V13ok.. just to make sure. the community repository is an actual repository for apt or just debs to download ?21:56
djszapiboth are possible.21:56
V13never mind... found it :)21:56
V13thanks :)21:56
M4rtinKdjszapi: ? :)21:56
BluesLeewhich community repo?21:56
djszapiM4rtinK: I have a working local osc on my ubuntu server :)21:57
djszapiBluesLee: meh...21:57
djszapilanding page pls ...21:57
M4rtinKdjszapi: congratulations ! :)21:57
Sputdjszapi: well you had a ton of arguments why allowing dmesg would be bad, so I'm curious why it changed again :) or maybe I have a slightly nonstandard device, who knows21:57
djszapiM4rtinK: same issue for soprano21:57
npmthere's ways of securing, but it's not a "few days" project
djszapiSput: I said it in the past21:57
BluesLeedjszapi: come one, please21:57
djszapieven on the forum actually21:57
npmalso since qml can grab code from "the net" ... another problem that requires some qml signing21:57
djszapiSput: we need to investigate about upstream credentials21:58
djszapiSput: since this operation was depending on that, and not us anyways21:58
V13the wiki text for adding the repo is by far the worst method to create a text file...21:58
djszapiand as it seemed, it did make no sense21:58
M4rtinKdjszapi: any issues with KDE password wallet ? its for some reason preventing me from using osc with a remote ssh connection21:58
Sputdjszapi: I see :)21:58
djszapiV13: echo 'deb ./' >>/etc/apt/sources.list.d/nicks.list21:58
V13yeah i know :)21:58
djszapiSput: I said the same about the relaxed stuff basically21:59
mgedminthat URL should be taken out and shot21:59
mgedmingood luck typing it up with the VKB21:59
V13but that .. setup env vars and use tee is ... well... original :)21:59
djszapisorry ?21:59
djszapiSput: people just tend to argue instead of listening :)21:59
Sputdjszapi: is relaxed mode possible again? I haven't had much time to play with the device lately21:59
djszapisometimes I wonder they would like to know better the happenings than the people who actually writes the history :)22:00
djszapiV13 you do not need that wiki22:00
V13I do not need that wiki22:00
V13move along22:00
BluesLeethat repo okay ...22:01
djszapiM4rtinK: not really22:01
djszapiM4rtinK: btw, I tried to debug the cmake file with this pkg-config...22:01
M4rtinKdjszapi: must be caused by my weird setup22:01
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djszapiM4rtinK: here is the relevant thread:
djszapilet us see what cmake developers say22:02
djszapiI am pretty sure the FindRaptor.cmake module is somehow broken on qemu22:02
M4rtinKlooks like qemu is not emulating hard enough :)22:03
djszapiimho, it is a pkg-config relevant bug22:04
djszapipkg-config always just causes issues22:04
djszapinpm: so can I get a use case, please22:05
M4rtinKcould it be caused by this non standard forced parallel build ?22:05
djszapiI tried to chroot into the build root, and run the cmake manually22:05
djszapiso it is not even actually the build stage.22:06
djszapiit is the build file generation stage only.22:06
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M4rtinKdjszapi: sounds like it might be caused by the parallel execution22:36
M4rtinKIIRC the build scripts are run in parallel and there might be some race conditions22:37
M4rtinKlike a script that should be run after a first one finishes being run at the same time as the first one22:37
djszapiexcept that, there is no buildscript running22:38
M4rtinKwell then - no idea :)22:38
djszapime neither..22:38
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M4rtinKjust in case, I fixed a GTK build once (still won't build in other repositories though) by adding .NOTPARALLEL: on the very end on the rules file22:43
djszapiyes. you said it more times in the past. ;-)22:46
M4rtinKokok :D22:49
rzrM4rtinK: hi , didnt u ask me to merge those packages too ?22:49
M4rtinKrzr: which ones ?22:53
M4rtinKgtk-frematle ?22:54
baptxNokia N9 twitter problem solved Thanks @jonni for the links ;)22:54
Arkenoistill no way to link twitter accounts to address book contacts22:56
nix-cyrusand only one twitter account available22:57
nix-cyrusand the bug with cyrillic font when using it with picture uploader<_<22:57
Chaz6I would like to be able to archive peoples old phone numbers for my sms history22:58
Chaz6Rather than simply replacing them22:58
Chaz6Cause the old messages then no longer have a name22:58
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rzrM4rtinK: i think yes , u tell me23:03
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M4rtinKrzr: no problem with importing them23:06
M4rtinKbut for some reason the package does not build in your repository23:06
M4rtinKthe funny thing is it builds in one of my projects but does not in another :)23:07
rzrthis looks a bit unreliable23:10
rzrmaybe should i just copy your built one23:11
rzrbut this is like dancing on eggs23:11
rzronce gtk is ok let's build gnome3 :)23:11
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ZogG_laptoprzr: ping23:14
rzrpong ZogG23:14
ZogG_laptoprzr: are there plans and opportunities to port repo to ?23:16
rzrit does not depends only on me23:21
rzri need some help for that23:21
rzrif anyone did upload any app to , i am listening23:22
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ZogG_laptoprzr: there are 2 progs for client and it shows i think 4 on site23:26
rzri'll try again to upload rsync23:27
ZogG_laptoprzr: it's OBS i can try to help, but i think authors should do it and not us, as copyrights, maintaining and so on23:27
thpsed -i -e "s@^Icon=.*@Icon=/usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons/icon-l-calendar-`date +%d`.png@" /usr/share/applicatio23:27
ZogG_laptopthp: what does it do?23:27
thpit makes the calendar icon in the app grid show today's date23:28
ZogG_laptopthp: btw is that you was also twiking psmove for linux?23:28
thpZogG_laptop: if you mean psmoveapi, then yes23:28
ZogG_laptopthp: it's one time thing? i mean just after i run it it shows but doesn't update?23:28
thpyes, you would have to run it daily23:28
thpand i just noticed you can skip the path and the ".png" and it still works23:29
thpso, is there something equivalent to cron on harmattan?23:31
ZogG_laptopthp: cron would help =)23:31
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thphmm, there is /etc/cron.daily/ - does anybody know if scripts in there get executed?23:34
ZogG_laptopthp: add mail check to daily and check if it added there and how =)23:36
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thpnah, i'm pretty sure the built in apps use a different mechanism23:37
artemmathere is no cron daemon in harmattan23:38
artemmanot sure who would run these scripts23:38
artemmaI know two ways for scheduling stuff in harmattan23:38
artemmasyncfw and alarmd23:38
ZogG_laptopbut why would me have cron dir with no cron?23:39
thpartemma: is alarmd still in there?23:39
artemmathp, runs my app in 1.1 just fine :)23:40
artemmathough I fail to do proper rescheduling sometimes, but thats another story..23:40
thpartemma: links to docs/example code?23:40
artemmait's easily googlable23:41
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artemmasearch for simpleclient23:41
artemmawell, example is meegoexample style so you won't be able to compile it :)23:41
artemmabut code is extractable23:41
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artemmaor search for some of these: Maemo::Timed::Event23:42
artemmaI don't want to share my full code and pieces are too complex for sharing23:42
artemmacan answer questions though23:43
ZogG_laptopartemma: what is the program if it's not a secret?23:45
artemmadaily wallpaper - fetches cool wallpapers to your lockscreen from flickr23:45
artemmahas some rescheduling problems in case of poor connection for now :D23:45
ZogG_laptopartemma: is it me or screen is on side?23:49
ZogG_laptopand free for 2011 means the next version would be paid one?23:50
artemmaZogG_laptop: that was actually supposed to be a very cool feature :)23:51
artemmaWorked a lot on clever rotating and cutting23:51
thpnah, don't really want to spend the rest of this evening digging through the api docs :/23:51
ZogG_laptopthp: leave it for tomorrow23:51
artemmaand now many people tell that they don't want even cool landscape pics if they are rotated23:51
artemmaSo canceling rotation will probably first real feature update, after fixing these rescheduling bugs23:51
ZogG_laptopartemma: but the lockscreen is not rotated right?23:52
ZogG_laptopartemma: and would it be paid at some point?23:52
artemmaZogG_laptop: if wallpaper is landscapish (90% of good wallpapers are), then I display it rotated - it looks good if you position N9 in landscape23:53
artemmaZogG_laptop: my plan is to keep it free until the end of the year at the very least23:53
ZogG_laptopok, than that's the reason you don't share code23:53
artemmathen I want to leave it free for people who already downloaded if it is easy to do with ovi store (i think it is)23:54
artemmaZogG_laptop: nope, that's the reason for not sharing full code23:54
ZogG_laptopoh got it23:54
ZogG_laptopyeah that's what i said23:54
artemmaexamples for scheduler are just ugly.. well as the scheduler interface23:54
nix-cyrusZogG_laptop: he doesn't want to share code?? where is my phone number of RMS...23:54
artemmaI am totally fine with sharing snippets23:55
artemmaZogG_laptop: to me it's the other way around, I can't see the reason for sharing full app code :)23:55
artemmaas for biz model, if an app is going to be popular, I am thinking about trying subscription model via in-app purchasing. Something like 30 days for free, then x cents a month23:57
artemmaexcept for the people who downloaded app when it was still fully free23:58
artemmathat should force and encourage me for high quality updates23:58

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