IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-11-13

Sazpaimonso i was able to flash my australia variant phone with PR 1.1 NTD 16GB BLACK firmware00:02
Sazpaimonwith no country name00:02
Sazpaimonits working just fine00:02
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mgedminthere's one password manager app in ovi story00:11
mgedmindoes anybody trust it?00:11
vandenoevermgedmin: is the code available?00:11
mgedminI have no idea00:11
vandenoevermgedmin: if i was the author i'd tell you i trust it00:12
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mgedminwas it this one? http://store.ovi.com/content/20856900:12
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mgedminI think it was this one00:14
mgedminno, can't be, this one is paid00:14
mgedminovi store app sucks00:15
mgedminhow long must I stare at the squircle before it shows me a list of freaking categories00:15
mgedminhow hard is it to cache the list somewhere?00:15
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mgedminah, the app I saw was "Wallet Free", by a very reputable-looking author "no where man"00:16
mgedminits icon is a padlock, so it must be secure, right?00:16
mgedminit's not open source00:19
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mgedminhttp://www.ruinelli.ch/projects/harmattan-projects/passwordmaker at least has source available00:20
vandenoevermgedmin: but can you be sure the compiles source corresponds to the claimed source?00:21
mgedminI can compile the source code for myself00:21
vandenoeveryes00:22
mgedminhm it's not a password manager -- it's a hash function00:22
mgedminfancy_hash(website url, master password) -> website password00:22
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Venemo_webchatgood evening guys00:37
Sazpaimoni wish swype would remember which apps you disabled/enabled it on00:40
Sazpaimoninstead if just being globally on/off00:40
Venemo_webchatswype eats da battery like hell00:41
Venemo_webchatI also noticed that dolby headphone also eats away the battery00:42
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TronicNot a surprise if Dolby HP eats CPU and battery as it needs to do rather expensive processing but I can still listen to music for the entire working day without a problem.00:50
Tronic(on N950)00:50
SpeedEvilVenemo_webchat: hi00:51
Venemo_webchathey SpeedEvil :)00:52
* SpeedEvil puts on silly hat.00:53
Venemo_webchatTronic: also, I'm not entirely sure why, but dolby headphone isn't very good when listening to metal00:53
SpeedEvilCan I install Harmattan on my new wopad I7?00:53
* SpeedEvil removes silly hat.00:53
Tronici have noticed similar problems.00:53
vandenoeverduring playing of mp3 in standard music app, pulseaudio uses 13% cpu00:53
SpeedEvilvandenoever: That's misleading.00:53
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vandenoeverso at least it's not my application but a general phenomenon00:53
vandenoeverSpeedEvil: how so?00:53
SpeedEvilvandenoever: It's 13%@250MHz00:54
Venemo_webchatSpeedEvil: yes, you can!00:54
SpeedEvil(or whatever)00:54
TronicVenemo_webchat: something in the original mix maybe...00:54
Venemo_webchatTronic: dunno. but almost any metal song will sound crappily when dolby is on00:55
Tronicabout cpu usage: quite possibly dolby hp is done on a separate dsp rather trhan on main cpu.00:56
DocScrutinizer(<mgedmin> fancy_hash(website url, master password) -> website password) sounds rather sane straight forward approach00:57
mgedminunless the website URL changes (del.icio.us -> delicious.com)00:58
DocScrutinizeryes00:58
mgedminovi -> nokia account00:58
DocScrutinizersure00:58
mgedminand I don't want to change my existing passwords on 50 websites00:58
Venemo_webchatTronic: possibly, but it eats the battery anyway.00:58
DocScrutinizerit for sure will need a GUI element to enter arbitrary URL00:58
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mgedminbesides, I like to store things like, oh, say, temporary hotel wifi passwords down00:59
mgedminor door lock combinations01:00
* DocScrutinizer *could* say now "you'Re supposed to change your passwords every week anyway" . won't do this nevertheless as we all know it's silly01:00
mgedminand I'd rather these notes were encrypted and protected with my master password01:00
mgedminbecause I'm paranoid in stupid ways01:01
Sazpaimoni just really only use swype for the arrow keys01:01
mgedminthere are arrow keys in swype?01:01
mgedmin???01:01
* DocScrutinizer hands some negating verb to mgedmin01:01
mgedmin???!01:01
Sazpaimonyes01:01
Sazpaimonswype from the swype button to the button next to it01:01
Sazpaimonthe button that changes the layout from letters to symbols01:01
mgedminDocScrutinizer: my bank passwords are protected using the same level of security as my, oh, disqus password01:01
mgedminhow's that not stupid?01:01
Sazpaimongives you arrow keys and other text control, like cut, copy, paste, home, end and select all01:02
DocScrutinizerI referred to the post one up from what you did01:02
mgedminwoo page up!01:02
Sazpaimonyou still cant paste in terminal with it though01:02
DocScrutinizer"I'd rather these"01:02
Sazpaimonmaking me mad01:02
mgedminshould be "I'd rather have", you're right01:03
Sazpaimonwe need an alternative terminal app with selection and copy/paste support01:03
mgedminhalf-right, anyway :)01:03
mgedminSazpaimon, can screen/tmux integrate with the X clipboard?01:03
Sazpaimoni dont know01:03
Sazpaimonalso i havent tested but i hope page up/down works in irssi01:04
DocScrutinizerwell, I'd *not* appreciate my *master* password getting used on encryptions on remote sites01:04
mgedminswype in vim is a risky proposition01:04
Sazpaimonswype in terminal is generally a bad idea01:04
Sazpaimonwhich is why it could be set at the app-level01:05
Sazpaimonand not globally01:05
DocScrutinizerI'd however need a storage for arbitrary passwords as well, which the approach above doesn't offer01:05
Sazpaimonyes i know you can swipe to switch to swype and normal layouts01:05
Sazpaimonbut swiping in terminal gernally does irritating things01:05
Sazpaimonsometimes it doesnt work, and just types stuff on the swype keyboard01:05
Sazpaimonalso, i would kill for a ctrl key on the vkb01:07
mgedminthe ctrl on the toolbar is not enough?01:07
Sazpaimoni mean in apps other than the terminal01:08
mgedminah01:08
DocScrutinizerctrl-key, yeah01:08
mgedminyou could probably hack it up in the xml01:08
DocScrutinizerthe whole device is useless simply because it'S missing ctrl and esc, no kidding01:08
DocScrutinizerooh, and cursor keys01:09
mgedminif you've no use for it, I could buy it from you, for a modest price ;)01:09
vandenoeveruse the frontal camera to read facial expression to toggle ctrl ;-)01:09
DocScrutinizer:-D01:10
vandenoeverleft wink: ctrl, right wink: esc01:10
DocScrutinizermgedmin: I'm supposed to keep all those devices for educational purposes, aka evaluation/R&D01:10
mgedminnice job!01:11
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* DocScrutinizer ponders disassembling that N901:12
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DocScrutinizerI already did a drop test which the device passed without any problems ;-D01:13
Sazpaimonon the back or on the screen01:13
DocScrutinizer~80cm to tile floor01:13
DocScrutinizeron the back01:13
DocScrutinizermore or less01:13
DocScrutinizeriirc01:14
DocScrutinizerI missed to take a video - for obvious reasons01:14
DocScrutinizeranyway that polycarbonate case is really rugged01:15
DocScrutinizernow if only I could figure how to create a missed-call notification on that device, without cutting my SIM down or going thru the hassle of setting up SIP on it01:17
jabiswassup01:18
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jabisI managed to drop test too ( ;< ) -~ 100cm rugged terrain - luckily no apparent damage01:20
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Sazpaimon[18:13] <DocScrutinizer> on the back01:22
Sazpaimonstopped reading right there01:22
DocScrutinizerwell, it seems rather hard to make the thing drop "on the screen" - even face down drops will almost always impact on the polycarbonate case rather than the screen01:25
Sazpaimonso you're saying the N9's back is made of butter01:26
DocScrutinizerI'm not saying anything like that01:26
Sazpaimonwell01:26
Sazpaimontoast always falls butter side down01:26
DocScrutinizerI'm saying a mathematical plane is some kind of entity01:27
gabriel9does anyone updated their N9?01:28
gabriel9does it bring some major stuff?01:28
DocScrutinizerer, yes01:28
DocScrutinizerdunno about major stuff though01:28
gabriel9faster better01:28
Sazpaimongabriel9, if swype counts as major, sure01:29
gabriel9well if they just polish thease features phone would be great01:30
Sazpaimonalso, i was able to flash my country variant australia N9 with one labeled "NTD 16GB BLACK" for PR1.101:30
Sazpaimonwhich I assume is the global variant01:30
gabriel9my is Denmark01:31
gabriel9but i bought it in eastern EU01:31
DocScrutinizerno swype here, so I guess it's not a property of the update01:32
Sazpaimonsomehow I think that as long as the version number is larger than what you currently have, the firmware flasher will happily accept the firmware image01:33
Sazpaimonlarger or the same, that is01:33
DocScrutinizer(not that I'd be particularly interested as I never use to type on that thing)01:33
SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, you sure you dont have swype? it should be in your settings to enable it01:33
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DocScrutinizeraha01:33
DocScrutinizerwhere?01:33
Sazpaimonlanguage01:33
DocScrutinizerhmm01:34
Sazpaimonthen text input01:34
Sazpaimonthen you enable swype01:34
DocScrutinizeryoh01:34
Sazpaimonthen you can switch to swype as the default layout, or switch by swiping across the keyboard01:34
mgedminthen you choose swype from the 'input method' list above <-- I missed it01:34
Sazpaimonthat will switch between the swype keyboard and regular keyboard on the flyu01:34
Sazpaimon*fly01:34
mgedminor you can horizontally swipe the vkb, which nobody told me01:34
mgedminI just assumed swype was broken or something01:35
Sazpaimoni prefer the swipe vkb method, because swype isnt really good for everything01:35
Sazpaimoni only like swype because it allows cursor control01:36
Sazpaimonhttp://p.twimg.com/AcIwPoOCQAA_UG2.png this is really useful01:36
Sazpaimonand of course not documented at all01:37
gabriel9that is useful01:37
Sazpaimonand definately worth upgrading to pr1.101:38
Sazpaimonalso restoring backup images after flashing is super easy01:39
gabriel9just te get that update :/01:39
Sazpaimongabriel9, i used navifirm to download the firmware image01:39
gabriel9this OS is better and better01:39
Sazpaimoni just used the generic 16GB black image01:39
gabriel9i don't know01:40
gabriel9is there a risk when doing that?01:40
Sazpaimonyou can cold flash back to pr1.0 i believe01:40
Sazpaimonnot if it works, that is01:41
gabriel9maybe update for denmark will come01:41
Sazpaimonif your device still works, then you're stuck with 1.1 and cannot downgrade01:41
gabriel9my is 1.2 Meego01:44
DocScrutinizerhaha, swiping vkds: "normal" deutsch -> "normal" english -> swype german -> "normal" deutsch01:44
DocScrutinizerno swype english01:44
gabriel9version 10.2011.34.-1.340.01.1_pr_34001:45
gabriel9that is long version number01:45
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pauly_hows harmattan compared to fremantle01:46
pauly_?01:46
Sazpaimonpauly_, well... its maemo01:46
mgedminexcept it's not called maemo ;)01:47
Sazpaimonalmost all the packages are01:48
DocScrutinizerthis swype is a joke, I'm 10 times faster on typing than on swyping across on a kbd where I cover the keys I'm searching for with my finger all the time01:49
DocScrutinizer the "predictive" autocorrecting part is sth that was standard on OM's illume vkbd since "ages" - thanks to Raster01:50
griDocScrutinizer: You can change the language of the swype keyyboard on bottom left, where "DE" stands - press and hold that01:50
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SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, i just use swype for the text control01:51
DocScrutinizer:nod: thanks01:51
pauly__sry my interent freaked out01:51
Sazpaimonarrows, home, end ,etc01:51
pauly__so do yous like it alot01:51
pauly__?01:51
Sazpaimonpauly__, I still use my N90001:51
pauly__uh huh01:52
pauly__i mean even if its not amazing the n9 and n900 are problebly the closest devices to that anyways01:53
Sazpaimonthe N9 is an amazing device01:53
Sazpaimonbut it cannot be compared to the N90001:53
pauly__anything new different thats not android or iphone?01:53
psycho_oreosN950 is far more cooler01:53
pauly__ya but i cant get one anyways01:54
SazpaimonN950 is far less available01:54
Sazpaimonim thinking of creating a sliding keyboard case for the N901:55
pauly__is it illegal for me to get one?01:55
pauly__an n95001:55
Sazpaimonpauly__, yes01:55
Sazpaimonwell not illegal01:55
Sazpaimonunless nokia can get at you for buying stolen goods01:56
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SpeedEvilAs far as I see it, it's not stolen.01:56
Sazpaimonall N950s are property of nokia01:56
Sazpaimonon loan to developers01:56
SpeedEvilThe NDA does not list any penalty other than a 500e penalty for failure to return.01:57
pauly__no one has any availible?01:57
psycho_oreosnot unless you're working inside nokia01:57
SpeedEvilpauly__: There are no legally saleable ones.01:57
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SazpaimonSpeedEvil, so nokia wouldnt go after a person who recieves it, sure01:57
Sazpaimonbut its still stolen goods01:57
SpeedEvilAny sales from developers would be questionably semi-legal.01:57
pauly__i would buy one illeagaly if i could find one01:58
pauly__i hate my n801:58
pauly__and btw its all scratched up i hope i can get $200 for it01:58
psycho_oreospauly__, there was an age old thread on tmo of someone willing to buy N950 regardless of the cost. That thread sparked huge flame war before he stated in the end that he got a N950. Nobody knows how or if it is a genuine N950 or not01:59
merlin1991pauly__: why risk the legality instead of going straigt fo a n9?01:59
psycho_oreoswhy buy the retarded version of N950?01:59
pauly__is the n9 really cool and worth $700 usd01:59
pauly__?01:59
SazpaimonN9 is not worth its price tag02:00
psycho_oreosN9 comes with 3 different internal capacity price tag02:00
Sazpaimonbut nokia knows people will buy it at its price tag02:00
merlin1991psycho_oreos: why is it retarded, it's hw is > n95002:00
psycho_oreoserr different internal capacity, therefore it has different price tag02:00
merlin1991ofc it's price might not be what one wants to pay for such a phone02:00
Sazpaimonthis is nokia, a company that sells dumbphones made out of diamonds for tens of thousands of dollars apiece02:00
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: 500 bucks penaly plus recompensation for further damage done02:01
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psycho_oreosmerlin1991, no N9 is on par with N950 in terms of hardware specs. N950 just doesn't have NFC, maybe pentaband and a stupid uSIM slot02:01
merlin1991doesn't it have less ram?02:01
psycho_oreos256MB less02:01
merlin1991(me darkly remembers something)02:01
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Ah - I missed that.02:01
pauly__sry to be a bother but like whats like a real neat feature of harmattan cause im looking for reviews of n9 on youtube all the talk about is swype02:02
SazpaimonN950 has pentaband02:02
merlin1991sure if you can get your hands on a n950 legally I'd do it, but if not I'd go the n9 way02:02
merlin1991it's still a great device02:02
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Sazpaimonim pretty sure every nokia smartphone phone since the N8 is pentaband02:02
psycho_oreosbut you get a proper hardware keyboard, and you can probably attach bluetooth keyboard and expect it to work. The wireless LAN module on the N950 can maybe be set to do proper rfmon modes. N9 has _none_02:02
Sazpaimonlike I said02:02
Sazpaimoni was thinking of making a bluetooth slider keyboard cast for the N902:03
psycho_oreosSazpaimon, ever read what DocScrutinizer wrote?02:03
Sazpaimonor if USB hostmode becomes possible, a USB slider case02:03
Sazpaimonwith passthru02:03
Sazpaimonpsycho_oreos, wrt?02:03
merlin1991but psycho_oreos 500 fine + possible further damage, kinda ends what the n9 costs in stores02:04
psycho_oreosSazpaimon, no idea of what you meant by wrt, but he said that (iinm) N9 lacks the necessary setup for keyboard inputs..02:04
Sazpaimonwrt = with regard to02:04
psycho_oreosmerlin1991, BFD, I'd rather get N950 anyday compared to N9 personally.02:05
Sazpaimonand i thought with a modified kernel you can enable HID support02:05
psycho_oreosahh02:05
Sazpaimonand like i said, if usb hostmode comes out i'll make it a USB keyboard02:05
psycho_oreosI've heard from elsewhere you can't pair any bluetooth keyboard with N902:05
Sazpaimonwith a passthru for charging of course02:05
Sazpaimonyou can't, N9 doesnt have HID support out of the box02:06
psycho_oreoswell there you go02:06
psycho_oreosgoes to show how retarded N9 is02:06
Sazpaimonif you use a custom kernel you can enable HID support02:06
psycho_oreosand forget about aegis? not likely02:06
Sazpaimontheres a custom kernel which bypasses aegis02:07
Sazpaimonthere's also this: http://www.meegoexperts.com/2011/11/connect-bluetooth-keyboard-n9/02:07
SpeedEvilSazpaimon: No, there isn't.02:07
SazpaimonSpeedEvil, at the very least it lets root be superuser02:07
SpeedEvilSazpaimon: you can't use the stock software properly with the aegis-disabled kernel.02:07
SpeedEvilIt at least needs significant further work.02:07
Sazpaimonyes but its possible at least02:08
SpeedEvilFor example - as it is at the moment, _every_ bit of user-data - messages/... is read-only02:08
Sazpaimonalso i dont know if that bluez-test package still works02:08
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pauly_hey02:09
psycho_oreosThat is still by far a long shot into getting a proper keyboard to work. Sure its a start no doubt.. probably wait till nokia releases a patch to prevent any further loopholes like they did with dev stuff02:09
pauly_i missed like past 3 mins02:09
psycho_oreospauly_, paste me the last line you saw and I'll pastebin the rest to you02:10
Sazpaimonid rather wait for usb hostmode02:10
Sazpaimonit'd use less battery02:10
pauly_me saying about an amazing feature02:10
pauly_then my router went crazy lol02:11
psycho_oreospauly_, http://pastebin.com/eSBkx5sU02:11
Sazpaimonalso will someone please just port whatsapp to the N9 so people will shut the hell up about it02:13
psycho_oreosin a nutshell nothing interesting about swype was discussed02:13
pauly_no02:13
pauly_i mean thats all i can find02:14
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pauly_i mean like whats amazing about harmattan the os?  not the hardware02:15
pauly_i know n950 is better02:15
pauly_i don't mean to be annoying02:15
merlin1991pauly_: relative openness, and an awesome ui02:15
psycho_oreosharmattan only has swype that be deemed as good.. almost everything else is on par with maemo except with aegis02:15
SpeedEvilI don't think there is anything flat out amazing about harmattan.02:15
SpeedEvilSwipe is usable.02:16
pauly_really02:16
SpeedEvilBut IMO after playing with it for a while - only about as usable as a hardware button for task switcher - like was possible in the n900.02:16
pauly_thanks i appreicate it02:16
Sazpaimonswype is horrible02:17
pauly_maybe ill wait til something better comes out02:17
Sazpaimonall its good for is the addition of arrow keys and cut/paste commands02:17
psycho_oreosprobably it won't be from nokia.. the next thing from nokia (well pretty much current now) are those mango phones02:18
Sazpaimonwhat I hate about swype is that it can only really be reliably used for swype02:18
Sazpaimonif i wanted to tap out letters normally the swype keyboard sucks for that02:18
Sazpaimonthankfully I can switch vkb types on the fly02:18
psycho_oreosyeah with N95002:19
psycho_oreos02:19
arceanhmm02:20
arceanaccording to dmesg, SGX clock rate is higer on PR 1.1 by 5 MHz02:20
pauly_for $700 i can get a unlocked docomo ntt phone02:20
arceanthey have overclocked it?02:20
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: USB hostmode cuts thru your battery in no time, while BT is bearable or next to good regarding that aspect02:20
arceanas currently it's clocked at 195MHz02:20
SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, even if its usb 1.1 mode?02:20
Sazpaimona keyboard would only really need low power mode02:21
DocScrutinizerdoesn't matter, it's the 5V supply that matters02:21
Sazpaimonmmm you're right02:21
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DocScrutinizerneeds a converter running all the time02:21
Sazpaimoni wonder if the N9 mainboard has contacts for a keyboard interface02:21
psycho_oreossomeone on the tmo thread also pondered about that before as well02:21
DocScrutinizerthat'S why I'm tempted to disassemble the critter right away02:22
Sazpaimonor I could make it so the keyboard only turns on when slid out02:22
Sazpaimonwhen slid in it only functions as a USB passthru02:22
DocScrutinizerbut odds are really low on this to fly, as the twl4030 companion chip used in N9 *has no* hw kbd interface, unlike the chip used in N95002:23
SpeedEvilSazpaimon: There are existing slide-out BT keyboards for the iphone.02:23
Sazpaimoni'd prefer USB because then it wouldnt require external power02:24
psycho_oreosyou still have a huge battery drain otoh02:24
Sazpaimonnot if it only is on when slid out02:24
DocScrutinizeractually via ID pin you *could* signal phone when to power up VBUS02:24
Sazpaimonhow often is your N900 keyboard out02:25
pauly_anyone ever use the docomo  phones?02:25
DocScrutinizera lot, but then I know it's not eating power02:25
Sazpaimononly problem I would have with a keyboard case is that it would make the N9 too top heavy02:25
DocScrutinizerpauly_: I heard a lot of asian guys actually do02:25
Sazpaimonall the weight would be on the screen and the keyboard would weigh nothing02:25
psycho_oreospauly_, I think that's now starting to become ot, you may want to try asking in #n9 :þ02:25
Sazpaimonit would be awkward to hold02:26
Sazpaimonunless you weighted the keyboard, but then the entire device would be just a heavy brick02:26
pauly_ot?02:26
psycho_oreosofftopic02:26
pauly_ohh yeah definitly02:26
Sazpaimonalso i'd like to make a design that did not cover the camera when slid in02:28
DocScrutinizerSazpaimon: well, you might get a hinge like on N950, plus a stand to come out on opening it02:28
SazpaimonDocScrutinizer, that would still make it awkward to hold02:28
DocScrutinizeryes02:28
DocScrutinizeryou can't get all, right now and here ;-D02:28
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Sazpaimonwhat would be really cool, but still awkward to hold02:29
Sazpaimonis if the keyboard slid out from inside the case in the middle02:29
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Sazpaimonlike, press a button and the keyboard pops out02:30
DocScrutinizerhehe02:30
Sazpaimonnot enough room inside the case for something like that though02:30
Sazpaimoni hear its pretty cramped in there02:30
SpeedEvilWould add maybe 6mm or so to the thickness.02:30
SpeedEvilOptimisitcally.02:30
Sazpaimonno such thing as a thin slider02:30
DocScrutinizerget a <1mm thickness dome sheet kbd ;-D02:31
SpeedEvilhttp://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Motorola-Droid-RAZR-Teardown/7048/102:31
Sazpaimonnow THAT would be hard to hold02:31
DocScrutinizerflexible02:31
DocScrutinizeryes, rather hard to hold02:31
DocScrutinizerand terrible to type on02:32
SazpaimonSpeedEvil, razyr isnt a slider is it02:32
Sazpaimon*razr02:32
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Sazpaimoni mean i personally wouldnt have a problem adding weight to the keyboard part to match the screen02:33
Sazpaimonbut i know it would be very off putting to a lot of people02:34
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npmanybody got some qml qsparql code to extract gps locations of camera/video media from tracker (alahttp://blogs.kde.org/node/4340 )02:38
DocScrutinizeranyway looking at the "stacking up razr to original milestone" at that site, I feel like mentioning N9 is thinner than N900's kbd half02:44
SpeedEvilyep02:46
DocScrutinizerplacing the N9 on a table to the top side of N900, the N900 happily slides open over the N902:46
SpeedEvilI've never seen a problem with the n900 thickness.02:46
DocScrutinizerwhich gave me a slight wow-effect#02:46
SpeedEvilAnd I have it in a case which adds 3mm or so.02:47
* DocScrutinizer neither02:47
DocScrutinizerand I'll stay with my N900s as long as I can source spares02:47
DocScrutinizerunless sth better than N9(50) comes along02:48
DocScrutinizerI'm running cicrles around the "up to 40 words per minute" claimed by swype, with N900 kbd02:49
DocScrutinizerlet alone I'd get more like 4 words per minute with friggin swype02:50
DocScrutinizer4 correct words plus 8 to delete as they were plain wrong02:50
DocScrutinizerI'd honestly prefer learning to shake morse code to the N9 rather than learning to use swype02:51
SpeedEvilThey really need some way to vet hese.02:52
DocScrutinizerater all morse is a generally "useful" thing to learn, whle swype... :-x02:52
SpeedEvilYou can't rationally count GeneralAntilles as a 900 keyboard user.02:52
SpeedEvilAnd you can't count the fastest swype people either.02:52
SpeedEvilBut that soet of testing requires time and money.02:53
SpeedEvil'give 10 people keyboard for x minutes seperated by y hours for z time, ...'02:53
DocScrutinizerswype is BS as you have no clue where the N is when you reached E of THEN - your finger covers the N and will do all the time until you slided too far02:55
DocScrutinizerand principle of swype doesn't allow for corrections of direction02:56
DocScrutinizerit *may* work on way larger screens, with stylus02:56
SpeedEvilAnd that's fundamentally wrong.02:57
SpeedEvilThe problem is presumably some users _can_ hit vastly higher speeds than you.02:58
DocScrutinizerwype is a hoax in my book02:58
SpeedEvilBut probably, the majority can't really.02:58
SpeedEvilAnd they push the speed of the fastest.02:58
SpeedEvilLike claiming GeneralAntilles is representative of the n900 keyboar.d02:58
DocScrutinizerso it's "wow that's a smart new idea, sounds good.... but using it I say MEH and please give me back usual typing"02:59
SpeedEvilIt's also clearly going to work better for users with smaller vocabularies.02:59
SpeedEvilAnd it's at least going to require some hours of training time.02:59
DocScrutinizerhow GAN came in to this discussin (or rather monologue)?02:59
GeneralAntillesI'M AMAZING03:00
DocScrutinizerundoubtedly03:00
SpeedEvilI went from ~10-15wpm on the n900 to ~35wpm after my laptop broke for a week.03:00
* GeneralAntilles slays some more dragons.03:00
SpeedEvilAnd I was using it for IRC.03:00
DocScrutinizerbtw is it just me being blind or is there no way to enter | {} etc to N9 xterm?03:02
DocScrutinizerooh there's |03:02
DocScrutinizerhmm, and cursor pgup/dwn ctrl esc03:04
DocScrutinizertab03:04
SpeedEvilpipe, {} are on the second symbol keys on my n95003:04
DocScrutinizertoolbar "shell" in xterm is suboptimal, it duplicates a lot of keys actualy available on regular vkbd symbol/num page while there's actualy no {} anywhere03:06
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DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: second symbol as in...?03:08
SpeedEvilthere is a '1+...' above the 'ABC' to get caps.03:09
SpeedEvilPress it, and the symbol keyb appears, and it changes to 2+, and the second symbol keyboard appears.03:09
DocScrutinizerno {} on that one on my N950 either03:10
DocScrutinizeroooh yes03:10
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DocScrutinizerthose are actually curly braces03:10
DocScrutinizersorry03:11
DocScrutinizerseems I need a pair of glasses eventually03:11
* SpeedEvil is wearing a pair of 1.5 dioptre glasses, with one lens punched out.03:11
DocScrutinizeron N9 those are square brackets nevertheless03:11
SpeedEvilAh03:12
DocScrutinizerwhile upper row is still 1..9003:12
DocScrutinizerhow insane03:12
SpeedEvilJust been playing with android. So many apps.03:12
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DocScrutinizerthey spoiled the key skew from upper to 2nd row on N9 to get ONE aditional key in there, then waste TEN keys on duplicating 1234567890 on upper row of 2/203:14
DocScrutinizernow that's what I call improvement03:15
DocScrutinizerand no more curly braces03:15
DocScrutinizermeh, nobody will ever need them anyway03:16
DocScrutinizer;-P03:16
* DocScrutinizer wonders who still recalls the ALT+NKnnn scancode entry03:17
DocScrutinizernah that woud've been TOO smart and easy: when key repeat already doesn't work anywhere in HARM, wasn't it a smart idea to pop up a selector dropdown on long tap on any key on xterm toolbar (and maybe as well on vkbd) to assign arbitrary char to that (virtual) key03:21
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SpeedEvilmeh03:27
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DocScrutinizerindeed MEH - what a silly game to play with this vkbd to find more points that annoy me03:28
* DocScrutinizer puts N9 back to its place left of PC on desk where it belongs03:28
* DocScrutinizer feels strange pain in wrists03:29
DocScrutinizerat very least "swyping" on "normal" vkbd behaves somewhat as you'd expect it, unless on e.g calculator03:30
DocScrutinizerwhere the whole operation scheme is a mere joke03:30
DocScrutinizeron calculator the "char" gets entered on key-down event rather than key-up, and sliding away from a key and then back to it creates another key-down event03:32
DocScrutinizerprobably the extremely cute QML toolkit03:33
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wookHeya, how to add app to auto startup?04:31
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DocScrutinizerhah, good question04:50
DocScrutinizeron fremantle there was a thing like x-preload=always in .desktop, which had the nice downside of your app restarting when you close it04:51
wookOwh, that's not good :S04:52
DocScrutinizerI'm not aware of a proper solution for the problem04:52
wookAny hack/tweak about it?04:52
DocScrutinizerxsession comes to mind04:52
DocScrutinizerI once tried to make xchat load via .xsession, on N810. For some unknown reason I failed on it04:53
wookHmm, i am not that much into all this...04:53
wook:S04:53
wookAnd this is my first linux toy04:54
wookAny module that works as "top window"?04:56
npmhttp://fresno.universelisting.com/ads/fresno-for-sale-nokia-n9-64gb-magenta-global-3g-wifi-smartphone-400usd-ad-485966/04:59
npm?04:59
ieatlintin fresno... wtf05:00
npmthen again, the same search also turned up http://www.adobe-flashlite.com/?tag=flash-lite-40 -- saying the n9 runs flash ...05:00
ieatlintthe n9 was supposed to run flash05:01
wookfake?05:01
ieatlintand even have camera support for the front facing camera05:01
DocScrutinizerwook: you definitely want to look into .xsession file05:01
ieatlintno idea what happened... definitely doesn't have flash on it05:01
wookOk Doc :), thank you :)05:01
npmyou mean that flash had camera support for the front facing camera? (i assume the n9's camera works, right??)05:02
* npm wishes i had n905:02
ieatlintnpm: there is no flash on the device05:02
npmthat's what i thought05:02
ieatlinti just know that it was supposed to, because i had lunch in may with one of the devs working specifically on "webcam" flash support05:03
wookFlash as flash player or flash as flash light? :D05:03
npmso btw, what is the solution for building portable apps with a front-facing camera?05:03
ieatlintadobe flash05:03
npmhtml5 has no camera support, so what does one do?05:03
npmbut flash is missing on ios, n9, etc05:04
DocScrutinizerwook: /etc/init/xsession/*05:04
ieatlintyou'll just have to find another platform to broadcast naked videos of yourself05:04
ieatlintmight i suggest an android tablet05:04
npmyeah, that also suggests using google+ directly05:05
wookGreat :)05:05
wookThanx Doc :)05:05
npmfor face-to-face chatting05:05
ieatlinti've not tried, but i've been told video calling doesn't work on the n9, including with skype and gtalk05:06
npmbut is there a google+-like video chat solutiion that works on nokias?05:06
wookBtw, what about ocing? Anyone oced so far?05:06
ieatlintthere was on the n900, which supported gtalk video calling05:06
* npm notes http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#GTalk_and_Skype_account_setup05:07
DocScrutinizerwook: /etc/init/xsession/applauncherd.conf seems a good start point, copy&edit05:07
ieatlinton current n950 software, gtalk is officially there (skype isn't though, oddly)05:08
npmieatlint: and skype too... so is any of that stuff available (or slated to be available when bugs worked out) for n9?05:08
npmgtalk with video?05:08
hiemanshuis there a walk to check what keyboard is being used?05:08
wookhmmm, many conf files05:08
hiemanshus/walk/way/05:08
infobothiemanshu meant: is there a way to check what keyboard is being used?05:08
wook:D05:08
wookBrb05:08
ieatlintnpm: uh, i don't know05:09
ieatlinti doubt it05:09
DocScrutinizerwook: every of those files deals with a single autostarted process - add your own file there05:09
ieatlinti don't think we'll see any new features on the n905:09
ieatlintpossible for 3rd party support05:09
DocScrutinizerwook: and don't forget:05:10
DocScrutinizer~may-i-edit05:10
infobotmay-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && exit; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }05:10
npmon a completely different subject, how does one list the geotag information stored in photos or videos on harmattan?05:10
npm~teach-me-about-qsparql-and-write-a-query-for-me05:11
npmoh well05:11
wookHow do you mean "~may-i-edit?05:12
wook:D05:13
wook:D05:13
wookAhh, i'll hack this one day though :D05:13
DocScrutinizerI mean aegis is protecting each existing file in /etc/init/xsession05:14
wookahaaa ...'"probably not"'05:14
npmhttp://pvanhoof.be/blog/index.php/2011/06/22/we-delivered <-- heh05:14
wook:D05:14
DocScrutinizerbut adding a file of your own there might be allowed nevertheless05:14
wookWhy is aegis so mean? :(05:14
wookCruel aegis :D05:14
DocScrutinizerit's all to protect you from possible threats ;-P05:15
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wookYea...tell me about it, i am symbian user :S we had cenrep.exe :S lol05:15
wookAnd ekern.exe to keep our hands out of everything what was cool05:16
DocScrutinizer>>It’s mostly open source! And not open source in the ‘Android way’. You know what I mean.<< BWAHAHAHAHAHA05:17
DocScrutinizerwook:05:18
DocScrutinizer~aegis05:18
infobothttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif05:18
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z720kernel source ?05:23
wook:D05:25
wookAndroid and symbian was just a joke...:S05:26
wookI remember, i was like most happy person when there was announcement that symbian will go open, but when i read what it were...i installed IDA again :D05:26
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* npm hopes new screenshots don't say anything nasty in polish or russian : http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/05:53
wook:D05:55
wookGoing05:57
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* npm finally gets syntax right07:19
npmtracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?u) WHERE { ?u a nmm:MusicPiece .}'07:19
npmthe person that came up with that fing-syntax should have his computing license taken away...07:20
npmtracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?u) WHERE { ?u a nmm:Photo . }'07:23
npmtracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?u) WHERE { ?u a nmm:Video . }'07:23
npmwheee...07:23
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dm8tbrnpm: that one sentence is totatl gibberish in polish ;)09:22
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npmthat's what i thought09:35
npmthere was a lot of background noise, and my father doesn't really speak polish, but fakes it09:36
npmhe did the turkish and the russian too...09:37
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gabriel9morning10:47
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qronicis that possible to place arbitrary script into /etc/init? won't aegis brick the phone?10:52
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dm8tbrqronic: aegis will never brick the phone11:50
qronicok, then "brick"11:50
dm8tbrqronic: the phone might MALF, but it's easy to recover by reflashing11:50
qronicreflashing isn't nice thing11:50
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qronicespecially when it's not when you wanna do it11:50
dm8tbrit's not brick either11:51
dm8tbrbrick is if you delete the certificate storage, people did that11:51
dm8tbrfiles monitored by aegis are known, there's a hash-list11:52
qronicI know11:53
qronic/etc/init folder is not there11:53
dm8tbraside from that, if you do such stuff, make backups, prepare to reflash11:53
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BluesLeehey, anyone awake?12:01
jonniqronic: /etc/init/apps/ is the dir where 3rd party apps can place aritrary scripts that are runned at the end of boot, and those will not cause malf12:02
jonniand you can anyways even disable MALF if you happen to hack develsh to have extra capabilities.12:05
jonnilife started to be quite much easier when I disabled malf and could edit anything under /etc :-)12:07
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qronicjonni, how's that? using modified kernel?12:22
nid0has anyone actually tried using the track & protect software?12:22
jonniqronic: there's several ways to do that, one would be to boot to modified kernel once and install develsh with extra capas and then reboot back to pr1.1 kernel. That can be done even without booting to modified kernel, but that needs a bit more trickery :)12:26
qronichm, didn't thought about it12:26
qronicso devel-sh is not on aegis list?12:26
jonniqronic: it is in aegis list12:27
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qronicjonni, so why aegis doesn't malf when it sees modified devel-sh after reboot? you've managed to update it's hash in aegis db while in "trickery" mode :) ?12:30
jonniqronic: yes ofcourse I'll let dpkg to sign the new refhashlist for me.12:31
qronicgot it12:32
qronicbtw, don't you know on which stage and what script stes SEAL bit on aegis .../enabled?12:32
qronics/stes/sets12:32
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freemangordonStskeeps ping12:33
Stskeepspong12:33
freemangordonhi12:33
freemangordonAlthough I am almost sure there is no progress with gst-dsp, let me ask you is there any :)?12:34
jonniqronic:  validator-init sets it at very early stage of the boot, so you really cannot disable it at boot stage, you need to insmod whitelisted kernel module after boot to remove the SEAL after the boot12:35
Stskeepsfreemangordon: get someone who owns a N9 and get them to do a source code request12:35
freemangordonok, thanks anyway12:36
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qronicjonni, you're talking about /usr/sbin/validator-init?12:38
jonniqronic: yes12:38
qronicI thought of some trick, but damn, it's static12:39
qronicjonni, thanks for the info12:39
jonniqronic: and even when that file is not in refhashlist, the checksum of that is checked elsewhere during boot, so no use to edit it :)12:40
qronicthat makes sense :)12:40
griAny cool icon designer in here?12:41
jonniqronic: I just did custom kernel module which removes the SEAL, was much easier approach12:41
qronicI've seen it, yeah, just a memset() with zeroes12:42
qronicprobably worth to research how to unset hooks on LSM aegis installs, probably will gain some speed12:42
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jonniqronic: nope, memset() patch disabled whole aegis and cripled the system, and that was not the right way to do it, my module just removes SEAL and whitelist bits, and leaving rest still working.12:43
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qronicjonni, ahh, yeah, javispedro set valinfo->seal = 0; not memset(), my bad12:46
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jonniqronic: ah yes, javispedro's unseal.ko worked on earlier kernels, on 1.1 kernel valinfo export is hidden and you need to be a bit more creative on kernel module side :=)12:48
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qronicjonni, hm, yeah, it's not exported now :)12:49
qronichello, Nokia :)12:49
qronicdid you searched it walking from some exported symbol?12:49
qroniclooking for some pattern12:50
jonniqronic: just 4 lines more of code to add dynamic search function, and now it will find valinfo in any past, current or future kernel.12:50
xmlich02hi, is there any possiblity to change swipe gesture down from close to away? change of ~/.config/mcompositor/mcompsitor.conf seems to be not working12:52
xmlich02i am using n912:52
qronicjonni, validator_fsaccess() seems like a good place to seach from, though there are probably way more12:54
jonniqronic: that function is still exported, another way was just to patch that one.12:54
qronicit compares valinfo.seal with 1 and returns12:54
qronicso it's easy to find valinfo.seal12:55
nix-cyrusxmlich02: you have to install swipe manager from ovi store. it's free12:55
jonnitrivial easy12:56
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grinix-cyrus: Does not work for me on 1.1 even though I read some weeks ago the author addressed that error12:59
xmlich02nix-cyrus, swipe manager is not working12:59
* gri also contacted the author of swipe manager when he will convert his program into a control panel applet - no reply.13:00
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qronicjonni, could you post accli -b /usr/sbin/* on pastebin?13:33
* DocScrutinizer moos evilly13:35
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DocScrutinizerjonni: guess what's next kernel looking like ;-D13:36
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jonniqronic: that command really doesnt do anything, since -b needs full filename path so *-regexp, and without -I the command will just stall14:05
jonniregexp will fail even14:06
qronicI jut wanted to see tokens on programs in /usr/sbin14:06
qronicany way to easily do this?14:06
jonniscript with for loop that changes * to filenames14:06
jonniFILES=/usr/bin/*;for f in $FILES; do echo "Processing $f file..."; accli -I -b $f;done14:12
jonnithat seemed to work14:13
qronic:) yuo were first14:14
qroniccould you post it on pastebin?14:14
qroniccause I don't have tcb token to view it14:14
qronicand I guess /usr/sbin is better14:14
qronicthose progs might have higher tokens I guess14:15
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qronicfor i in `ls -1 /usr/sbin` >  do14:15
qronic>    accli -I -b ${i}14:15
qronic> done14:15
qronicmy variant14:15
gabriel9anyone from denmark?14:20
Chaz6leinir is14:20
gabriel9ahoy leinir14:21
leinirnot entirely here, but hullos :)14:23
DocScrutinizer for i in `ls -1 /usr/sbin` >  do  ???14:29
gabriel9u buy my N9 in eastern EU(Republic Serbska) but it is from Denmark. Did you get updates for N9 in Denmark?14:29
leinirah, no idea - mine's from Norway :)14:30
gabriel9:D14:30
gabriel9This is really mess with regions and version14:30
DocScrutinizerbtw accli: invalid option -- b14:31
gabriel9if you know someone can you ask them and give me info? :)14:31
gabriel9I will return the fawor.14:31
rcgwhat's the preferred way to take screenshots with pr1.1?14:32
rcgcan't find the screenshot thingy in the qml components examples where it used to be14:32
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jonnircg: there are free apps for that in ovi store14:36
rcgalright... will go with one of these for now... thx14:38
DocScrutinizerqronic: jonni:14:40
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# accli -I /usr/sbin/add-shellxfooblah >x; accli -I >y; diff -s x y14:40
DocScrutinizerFiles x and y are identical14:40
jonniDocScrutinizer: as they should be, you need to do accli -I -b /usr/sbin/file, with -I only you only get current shells creds14:42
DocScrutinizerbtw accli: invalid option -- b14:42
jonniworks for me, what version of accli are you using14:43
DocScrutinizertell me :-D14:43
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# accli -V14:44
DocScrutinizeraccli: invalid option -- 'V'14:44
DocScrutinizerUsage:14:44
qronic-b works for me too, PR1.1 N914:45
jonniDocScrutinizer: dpkg --list |grep o-tools|cut -b68-7614:45
jonni1.0.2+0m614:46
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# dpkg --list |grep o-tools|cut -b68-7614:48
DocScrutinizer0.4.3+0m614:48
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jonniwell your running beta1, -b works in beta2 and N914:54
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dm8tbrsoo, let's say I have an application that should-work(tm) written in Qt and QML. What's the best way to package such an application? Any specific howtos/rtfm?15:36
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DocScrutinizerqronic: you still need that list of credentials of /sbin/* ?16:33
qronicyeah, if you have tcb token so it displays all creds16:34
DocScrutinizermompls16:34
DocScrutinizerqronic: http://paste.debian.net/145201/16:39
qronicDocScrutinizer, thank you, could you post the same from /usr/sbin/?16:40
qronicif it's not hard16:40
DocScrutinizersure16:40
DocScrutinizersorry, too large for pastebin16:42
qronicmaybe sendspace.com? if you have access to it16:44
DocScrutinizerqronic: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/sbin_creds16:45
qronicDocScrutinizer, awesome! thank you so much16:45
DocScrutinizeranything else I could rip out of this aegis coffin for you? :-D16:50
qronicnah, that's all :)16:51
DocScrutinizerI think I'll nevertheless augment that file to include bin/* usr/bin/* sbin/* usr/sbin/*16:52
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gabriel9i create icon for my app .png17:10
gabriel9but still in Applications there is standard Qt icons17:10
gabriel9icon17:10
gabriel9and in my project i can see name of my icon but .svg  format17:11
gabriel9do i need to create or edit svg file to match my icon?17:12
gabriel9found it under run options17:14
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DocScrutinizerfor your convenience: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/950/credlist_all_executables18:01
SpeedEvilInteresting18:02
DocScrutinizerI did a `find / -type f -perm -u+x` so sorry for .png and whatnot else showing up there18:04
mgedminexecutable png files? *headdesk*18:07
SpeedEvilProbably on vfat18:09
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lardman|homehi chaps18:50
lardman|homeI'd like to access the C++ class backing a QML item, from C++, but after the QML item has been created purely in QML. Where should I look?18:50
lardman|homeI was thinking that the QDeclarativeContext would have a getContextProperty() sort of fn, but I can't see one18:51
lardman|homehmm, I see this is potentially frowned upon18:53
rcglardman|home: so the c++ class the QML item is created from is yours?18:53
radiofreelardman|home: if you know the type of object you could use qobject_cast18:53
radiofreee.g qobject_cast<ObjectClass*>(rootObject->findChild<QObject*>(objectName))18:54
radiofreei think for that to work you have to set the objectName property on qml18:54
radiofreee.g Binding { objectName: "foo" } then you can use qobject_cast ... findChild<QObject*>(foo)18:54
lardman|homercg: yes, but I was attempting to not create it in C++18:55
lardman|homeradiofree: that looks promising, thanks18:55
radiofreeI actually do that in the qtsparql qml tests18:55
rcglardman|home: well then you can simply pass your object as parameter18:55
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rcgiirc18:55
lardman|homeI wonder if it would simply be easier to create the object in C++ and insert it into the context18:56
radiofreelardman|home: I create a SparqlConnection (which is actually subclassed from QSparqlConnection) : https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/qsparql/blobs/master/tests/auto/qsparql_qmlbindings/qsparqlconnection.qml#line5618:56
* lardman|home looks18:56
radiofreethen in the test i do: https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af/qsparql/blobs/master/tests/auto/qsparql_qmlbindings/tst_qsparql_qmlbindings.cpp#line10018:56
radiofreeso that will be qobject_cast<QSparqlConnection*>(qmlObject->findChild<QObject*>("connectionWithOptions"))18:57
lardman|homecool, looks like what I need, thanks18:58
radiofreenp18:58
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rcglardman|home: you should be able to pass your objects from QML to c++ and vice versa via pointers19:03
rcge.g. somewhere i use: Q_INVOKABLE Entry* get(int index) { return at(index); } in order to allow some QML code to get objects from my C++ classes19:04
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rcganaloguously you should be able to pass from QML to C++19:07
lardman|homeYeah, that means I need to give the QML interface a way to pass a pointer to the C++ backing class though, which isn't very useful for most people19:07
lardman|homeI'm wondering if it would be easier to just pull the QML code into the app, rather than having it separately packaged, etc19:08
rcgEntry in this case is a class I created and I added it via:   qmlRegisterType<Entry>("meepasswords", 1, 0, "Entry");19:08
lardman|homes/QML code/QML + C++ item code19:08
rcglardman|home: what do you mean with "give the QML interface a way to pass a pointer to the C++ backing class"?19:08
lardman|homeI've modified alterego19:09
lardman|homehmm19:09
lardman|homepressed enter too soon, hang on :)19:09
lardman|homemodifed his declarative barcode reader, but I need to have the reader code (QML + C++) pass the rest of mBarcode an image of a scanned barcode. mBarcode is C++ with a QML layer ontop19:10
lardman|homeso the question is how to get the image from the QML+C++ barcode reader code, which I'd hoped to leave external, into the mBarcode C++ code19:10
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lardman|homeI can connect a signal from the barcode reader to an mBarcode slot and try to pass the QImage through QML I guess, but I'm just thinking that I'm adding features that aren't very useful for QML users, so perhaps I should just incorporate the code and then access it all through C++19:12
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rcglardman|home: http://pastebin.com/p065yfyU19:17
rcgA and B are C++ classes inheriting from QObject19:18
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Corsacjonni: fwiw, your command line doesn't return anything19:21
jonniCorsac: which commandline?19:21
Corsac(apscli -s signon-private:Se -lu)19:22
jonniCorsac: ah that one, it only returns stuff if you have enough capabilities, so normal develsh users can forget that one.19:24
jonninormal users should just use ./flasher to fix their problems :)19:25
Corsacyeah but in my case even with devel-su+develsh19:28
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jonniCorsac: yep thats not enough19:31
Corsacoh, so what do I need?19:33
DocScrutinizeropen mode19:33
DocScrutinizeror "open" mode19:34
rcglardman|home: http://pastebin.com/VLYuiugY19:38
rcgthis is a little bit more extended example19:39
rcgplease note that i pasted the QML part first and afterwards (after closing the Rectangle) the C++ classes19:39
npm_Anybody here understand how to extract the actual longitude/latitude associated w/ geotagged media (see http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/#Future ) for example19:41
npm_tracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?urn) ?addr ?lng WHERE { ?urn slo:location ?addr . ?addr slo:longitude ?lng . }'19:42
lardman|homercg: thanks19:42
npm_always returns an empty result set19:42
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phakonpm: http://developer.gnome.org/ontology/unstable/ might help19:44
matrixxtracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?u) ?latitude ?longitude WHERE { ?u a nmm:Photo . ?u slo:location ?location . ?location slo:latitude ?latitude . ?location slo:longitude ?longitude . }'19:45
matrixxdidn't try it out yet, but should be something like that19:45
npmphako: thanks.19:45
npmis there a specific "version" or listing of the ontologies enabled in harmattan?19:45
npmbecause i tried some other examples i googled and they didn't work, complain: Could not run query, Unknown property `http://www.tracker-project.org/temp/slo#GeoLocation'19:46
phakonpm: the ontologies are in /usr/share/tracker/ontologies19:47
npmheh... i shoulda grepped :-) thanks!19:48
nix-cyrusAfter I made recover the sattelites and geolocation don't work for me :(19:49
Corsacjonni: ok so not something I can do myself :/.19:53
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jonniCorsac: not atleast yet, since capability gaining instructions have not been published widely in the Internet yet.19:59
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rcglardman|home: np.. hth20:09
rcgbtw you do not need the copycontructor and neither need to overload the = operator20:10
rcgthese are leftovers from another short example20:10
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DocScrutinizer?u a nmm:Photo . ?u slo:location ?location . ?location slo:latitude ?latitude . ?location slo:longitude ?longitude .20:36
DocScrutinizerC'MON20:36
* DocScrutinizer hurries bathroom, throwing up20:36
DocScrutinizerI *love* that spargel gibberish20:36
matrixxDocScrutinizer: didn't I suggest that one already ;)20:37
DocScrutinizerI just commented it20:37
DocScrutinizernot even your suggestion but spargel in general20:37
matrixxheh20:38
DocScrutinizerI've seen hexdumps of assembler that were epic compared to this mindboggling crap20:38
matrixxnot so different from sql20:39
DocScrutinizerduh WHAT?20:39
matrixx:]20:39
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DocScrutinizerWHAT THE HELLLLLLLLL20:40
fralsits kinda like sql but someone raped it, threw up on it, took a dump on it and then sent it through a grinder20:40
matrixx:DD20:42
DocScrutinizermy N9 just started creating random touch events at rates of ~10/s20:43
DocScrutinizerspooky20:43
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phako?u a nmm:Photo; slo:location [ slo:latitute ?lat; slo:longitude ?long ]20:44
phakobtw20:44
matrixxyep, I didn't optimize mine :)20:44
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phakoor you could even use property functions if slo:location is single-valued20:45
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matrixxit is20:45
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freemangordonDocScrutinizer - you have n9?20:49
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DocScrutinizeryep20:50
freemangordonwill you help me on that: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1122809&postcount=50520:50
freemangordonbackground here: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1122919&postcount=50820:51
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gabriel9i just checked, there is no yet update for denmark release of N)20:56
phakofreemangordon: where is described that it's GPL?20:56
gabriel9i just checked, there is no yet update for denmark release of N9 64bit20:57
freemangordonin binary20:57
freemangordon:D20:57
freemangordonan there is earlier version on gihub20:57
freemangordongithub20:57
freemangordonhttps://github.com/felipec/gst-dsp20:58
gabriel9n9 should play mp4 files20:58
gabriel9but i found one which does not work20:58
freemangordonphako: it is LGPL more precisely20:59
nix-cyrusfreemangordon: http://tieba.baidu.com/p/1249710523 he said the same about lgpl20:59
freemangordonthey are citating me. Or I am missing the point?21:00
DocScrutinizerhah, fish into N950 works nicely21:03
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DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: I wish I had any hope to help here, but asking Nokia to provide source of blobs is in vain and a waste of time and energy21:05
freemangordonbut they are violatong LGPL, they MUST provide source gode on request21:06
freemangordon*code21:06
DocScrutinizerthe devels would like to help but mustn't, the boss asks the lawyers, the lawyers say "lots of work", so boss asks "what will we earn with doing that?" and that's it21:07
freemangordonok,ok21:07
Piruhmm wait, they refuse to give out source to lgplg components or the object files to link against?21:07
DocScrutinizerwell, if you can prove they are violating GPL then they for sure will move, but I guess they don't21:07
Pirulgpl even21:07
freemangordondoc: Texas Instruments DSP elements0.9.0-6+0m6LGPLgst-dspnone21:08
freemangordonthat is a part of binary21:08
freemangordonlibgstdsp.so21:08
Piruso they should provide the object only21:08
DocScrutinizergstreamer0.10-dsp-0.9.0-6+0m6 for sure contains proprietary DSP code of TI21:08
freemangordonno21:08
Pirulgpl isn't as anal as gpl21:09
freemangordonit is written by felipe contreras21:09
freemangordonPiru - the same rules apply to LGPL binaries as for GPL when you distribute them21:09
Pirusure but when you ask for src you're only required to provide the lgpl parts21:10
freemangordonyes, and that is what i am asking for21:10
freemangordonthe lgpl part21:10
freemangordonsource code for21:10
Piruif you provide .o for the other parts so you can link the resulting bin21:10
Piruokay21:10
Pirufair enough. so they didn't respond?21:10
freemangordonI don't own n9 nor n95021:10
DocScrutinizeraaaah21:10
freemangordonI am not in position to ask21:11
Piruyou don't need to21:11
Pirujust get the binary and you're entitled to ask for the src21:11
DocScrutinizerexactly21:11
freemangordonnoone has distributed the binary to me in any form21:11
DocScrutinizerand it's LGPL?21:11
freemangordon100%21:11
DocScrutinizerhmm, just ask21:12
Piruwell if you get the LGPL binary by whatever means they MUST provide the src if you ask for it21:12
Piruand I'm fairly sure they do. the LGPL clauses are rather "flexible" about it21:12
Pirufor instance it doesn't specify how fast they should respond21:12
Pirualso they can choose to deliver via physical media if they choose to...21:13
DocScrutinizernah, they will move when there's really sth fishy21:13
PiruI saw the (L)GPL offer at least21:13
Piruin about21:13
Piruwant the address?21:13
freemangordonsure21:13
DocScrutinizerthey don't keep stuff closed "on purpose" or cause they are evil, it's just each disclosed line of coode needs review by lawyers and sometimes bosses say that's not needed21:14
* phako agrees with DocScrutinizer 21:14
npmmatrixx / DocScrutinizer / phako : been bashing my head against the SPARQL thing and perhaps my problem is i'm not running an up to date harmattan (lazy, in middle of development, etc)21:14
Pirusourcecode.request@nokia.com21:15
DocScrutinizeras soon as there is some argument why this needs to be disclosed I am sure they will follow21:15
phakonpm: not necessarily, SPARQL can have some odd matching problems21:15
Piruor written snail mail:21:15
PiruSource Code Request21:15
npmi think the problem might be that the query i try is failing for me, but maybe not for you?21:15
PiruNokia Corporation21:15
PiruP.O.Box 22621:15
npm tracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?u) ?latitude ?longitude WHERE { ?u a nmm:Photo . ?u slo:location ?location . ?location slo:latitude ?latitude . ?location slo:longitude ?longitude . }'21:15
npmalways returns empty set21:15
PiruFI-00045 Nokia Group21:15
npmbut i think i see why21:15
PiruFinland21:15
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freemangordondoc: here http://meego.gitorious.org/maemo-multimedia/gst-dsp is source code for fremantle21:16
npmIn  /mnt/n950-user/usr/share/tracker/ontologies/32-nco.ontology  : # FIXME Range geo:Point but we dont have that class21:16
freemangordonPiru: thanks21:16
phakonpm: if you're struggling with tracker/SPARQL, upstream tracker people are in #tracker on irc.gimp.net21:17
npmdoes your /usr/share/tracker/ontologies define that?21:17
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: so it might even be a mishap that it went to nonfree21:17
DocScrutinizerjust ask21:17
npmi'll try that next, but if someone could just run a query on their n9, it might answer things for me.21:17
npm(thanks!)21:17
Chaz6I want PR1.1 already21:17
freemangordondoc: no, it is not even in nonfree21:18
freemangordonanyway, thanks21:18
phakonmm: Let me check21:18
npmphako's query also returns empty: tracker-sparql -q 'SELECT nie:url(?u) ?lat ?lng WHERE { ?u a nmm:Photo; slo:location [ slo:latitude ?lat; slo:longitude ?lng ] }'21:19
phakonpm: does tracker-sparql -q 'select ?u slo:location(?u) { ?u a nmm:Photo }' return anything?21:19
npmit returns 99 lines of stuff :-)21:20
npm  urn:uuid:b39fabe5-3b73-0f00-f90e-5af1431ab8b9, urn:uuid:72c2c257-8c48-61c3-e1c7-cf5326e0fccb21:20
phakosecond column null always?21:20
rcglardman|home: well, while i was at it i made some short write up of the example: http://ruedigergad.com/2011/11/13/exchange-data-and-objects-between-c-and-qml-and-vice-versa/#more-323 ;)21:20
phakono21:20
npmsometimes it is null21:20
npm  urn:uuid:466cb34a-ee5a-75aa-9b85-e81265d04281, (null)21:20
phakonpm: can you pastebin the output of tracker-info urn:uuid:72c2c257-8c48-61c3-e1c7-cf5326e0fccb21:20
npm(thanks for teaching me about how to use tracker!)21:20
* phako doesn't have geotagged photos available currently21:21
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npmhttp://pastebin.com/JXdyBrET21:21
jesuschristhi21:21
npmphako: that corresponds to what i've been seeeing.. only 'slo:postalAddress'' is in there21:22
phakoyeah21:22
npmand that doesn't have the original GPS location in it21:22
npmis that normal? how are you supposed to plot stuff on a map (see http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/#Future ) w/o exact lat/lng21:23
npmi was wondering, however, if that information is missing because i need additional aegis permissions to get the exact location??21:23
phakonpm: no, it's either tracker access or no tracker access, not more detailed21:24
DocScrutinizerfreemangordon: btw that's not 'my' N9, so I'm probably one of the less qualified candidates for your purpose, though you don't need any such support anyway21:26
npmyeah i tried adding aegis-exec -a TrackerReadAccess and it didn't change anything21:26
DocScrutinizeraahm and btw doc: dosn't highlight here ;-)21:26
npmthe reason why i went the qsparql route is because i saw bugs in document gallery preventing this.21:26
npmi bet document gallery uses qsparql and hits the same bug21:27
DocScrutinizerjoerg: does21:27
DocScrutinizerand docsrc: does21:27
freemangordonDocScrutinizer: yeah, but your nick is too complicated for me to write it :p21:27
DocScrutinizererr docscr:21:27
freemangordonok, joerg will do the job21:27
DocScrutinizerfine with me21:27
npmhttps://bugreports.qt.nokia.com/browse/QTMOBILITY-1580  Obtaining Location information (latitude/longitude/etc) of a Photo (image) using Document Gallery APIs21:28
npm^^^ specifically21:28
npmi guess i'll work on http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/#Future later ... that's what the future's for21:29
phakonpm: there's two levels of location API21:29
phakobtw21:29
phakoon the device21:29
jesuschristi like turtles21:30
npm(i should take some photos "offline" and see what it writes into the media)21:30
npmseems like it reverse-geos it and that's it.21:30
npmis there an option to change this?21:31
phakoin the camera21:31
phakothere's GPS /geotags21:31
phakoyou're also asked for it if you start camera for the first time21:32
npmso turn off geotags and then the lat/lng gets written?21:32
* phako would suspect that, I haven't tested it21:32
Sazpaimon_woah21:33
Sazpaimon_i just noticed this aegis-dev-mode package21:33
Sazpaimon_is that a pr1.1 package?21:33
Sazpaimon_i never noticed it before21:33
jesuschristim still waiting for 1.1 :(21:34
Sazpaimon_jesuschrist, i used the generic 16G black firmware on my country variant australia device21:35
Sazpaimon_worked just fine21:35
jesuschristi dont want to flash my device21:35
jesuschristactually i wanted to place a screen protector on it, but ive failed, air bubbles :(21:36
Sazpaimon_why not flash?21:36
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ieatlintwaiting for 1.1... but the n9 has 40-4/pr1.1 already?21:36
Sazpaimon_just make a backup and restore it after flashing, you wont lose anything21:36
jesuschristwhat did you use to flash saz ?21:37
Sazpaimon_flasher21:37
Sazpaimon_from nokia21:37
jesuschristplus there are a lot of images, what is the right one ?21:37
jesuschristhttp://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/p/d/fds_fire/1111/0811/6514769295/67C18E5C_DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_009-OEM1-958_ARM.bin21:38
jesuschrist?21:38
npmphako: so i turned off "geotags" and even though 'gps' was on, it simply stopped writing slo.location at all21:42
phakonpm: oh, great21:42
npmturned it back on and   'slo:postalAddress' = 'urn:uuid:97709968-c4d4-b058-ac32-bcc113736d56'  is all it wrote21:43
npmbut perhaps others have more up to date softares?21:43
Sazpaimon_jesuschrist, maybe you should wait then21:43
Sazpaimon_im not gonna reccomend to someone who doesnt know what theyre doing to flash firmware of a different product code21:43
jesuschristi think so too sazp21:44
jesuschristwhere did you get and how21:44
jesuschristthe image anyway21:45
npmmaybe jesus' n9 doesn't brick and resurrects after 3 days?21:45
jesuschristnot funny21:45
SpeedEvilSure it is.21:45
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jesuschrist:(21:49
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jesuschristi wish Elop gonna discontinue you SpeedEvil21:51
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ieatlintas an american, all i can say about elop is: you're welcome21:53
ieatlintplus some maniacal laughter21:53
jesuschristanyway america is the continent, you are a usarian21:54
ieatlintnah, the noun is american21:55
jesuschristcant see why canadians should be less american than you21:56
ieatlintalthough when i travel, i say californian, and hope people don't judge me quite as much21:56
ieatlintcanadians are americans, just more polite and in denial21:56
jesuschristmexicans are too21:58
ieatlintnope21:58
ieatlintthey're north americans, sure21:58
jesuschristthought we were talking about americans21:59
ieatlintif you're going to sit there and whine about how an english word doesn't make sense, you're going to be there a long time21:59
ieatlintthere's a long list of words to go through21:59
ieatlintfor instance, to me, "french" isn't a nationality or a language, but rather a style of cutting things22:00
jesuschristheh22:03
jesuschristanyway its theatre, not theater !!!22:04
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jesuschristhi gri22:05
grimorning22:06
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Sputjesuschrist: note that I've flashed my N9 with a similar image, and it refused to work properly afterwards until I also flashed eMMC content, which may or may not be publicly available somewhere22:14
Sputso I'd wait for something official if I were you22:15
nid0fwiw I flashed mine from aus to northern europ with no problems without needing to do emmc22:15
jesuschristi dont want to risk22:16
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Sputnid0: did you erase the user data?22:23
nid0no22:23
Sputbecause as long as I didn't do that, things worked fine with the new image... but I couldn't reinstall apps from the store, so I erased the phone, and couldn't work with it afterwords until I also found eMMC content22:24
Sput*afterwards22:24
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gabriel9jesus christ22:32
gabriel9christ is here22:32
gabriel9:D22:32
jesuschristconfess your sins22:33
jesuschristim going good night22:34
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gabriel9flash or not to flash my device=22:35
gabriel9touch me good man22:36
gabriel9i am a sinner22:36
gabriel9how to know when updates will come for my device, From denmark 64GB Black22:36
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nix-cyrusgabriel9: NSU = flash?22:47
gabriel9yes22:47
gabriel9i think so22:49
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BluesLeehi, is there a setting that the event screen shows my next appointments from the calendar app?22:57
BluesLeealternatively, can i add a local rss feed on the n9 which shows me some personal informations?22:58
gabriel9sorry i did not try any of that features23:00
BluesLeei will try it23:02
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ZogGgabriel9 just f# wait or try again with nokia suite23:04
gabriel9sorry this is first time i have phone which i like23:07
gabriel9:D23:07
VenemoBluesLee, yes there is an RSS app. in the feed settings, you can have the feed show up among the events view too.23:09
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BluesLeeVenomo: I know that, i checked now that the default rss reader understands the "file" protocol, i used a simple rss xml with one entry (html), i am waiting that the event screen does the update23:20
BluesLeeif this works it should be possible to read the next appointments from the calendar db (i hope there is one) and display them in the event screen, todos or notes could also be displayed23:21
BluesLeeworks perfect :-)23:30
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