IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-11-11

ajalkane	So learn about that and you may find the answer	00:00
Venemo	I've never imagined that Jesus might be interested in the N9.	00:00
ajalkane	Why not? N9 is the second coming of Jesus Christ, I think	00:00
jesuschrist	ajalkane; im work as sysop to pay for my daily bread, so scripting wouldnt be a prob	00:00
Venemo	hehehe	00:00
Venemo	:D	00:00
jesuschrist	whatever ill check one of the backups of the phones i made some days ago	00:01
jesuschrist	Venemo : jesus, they say, is always interested in the forsaken and the forgetten :)	00:02
ajalkane	I gotta admit it's exhilarating to find out that, back in the days Jesus was a carpenter. In the modern world, he's a sysop. Doing scripting magic and invoking spells on his N9. Good times.	00:02
Venemo	jesuschrist, since when is the N9 either forsaken or forgotten?	00:02
jesuschrist	Venemo : have you just landed from mars ? :D	00:03
Venemo	jesuschrist, nope, I'm from the planet Vulcan.	00:04
jesuschrist	Venemo : there are rumors there wont be any ovi suite support for the n9, do your math...	00:04
Venemo	jesuschrist, who the heck cares about ovi suite anyway?	00:05
jesuschrist	it isnt a matter of caring, its another proof of the n9 destiny :\	00:05
Venemo	every time I installed that crap on my computer, I regretted and uninstalled a day later.	00:05
jesuschrist	the ovi suite may be bloatware (for some) but its nokia official sync software	00:06
merlin1991	jesuschrist: https://gitorious.org/n900-comhist-import/	00:06
merlin1991	is not entirely functional though	00:06
Venemo	ovi sute has never ever supported any of the NITs, N9 is no exception it seems.	00:06
ajalkane	The people, back in the day, were forsaken not by god but by the rules of the pharisee. I think, what our modern day Jesus is here implying is that Elop is the pharisee	00:06
jesuschrist	merlin1991 : i dont have a n900	00:07
merlin1991	there's still code that write to the sms db on the n9	00:07
merlin1991	;)	00:07
ajalkane	I hope our Jesus goes to the temple of Windows Phone and turns over the tables showing off those abominations	00:07
jesuschrist	ajalkane : i would say Elop is the priest making the holy temple like ebay, selling and preaching in the name of microsoft	00:08
ajalkane	jesuschrist: amen to that.	00:08
jesuschrist	still to be honest i couldnt blame nokia or elop too much	00:08
SpeedEvil	It's not Elop that was teh problem.	00:08
SpeedEvil	The rot hit before Elop	00:09
jesuschrist	nokia was market leader not so long ago....	00:09
DocScrutinizer	indeed	00:09
ajalkane	I could. The Board of directors were chicken shit. Elop just came in and used their cowardize.	00:09
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Venemo	IMO the real problem was that the Harmattan team failed to deliver on schedule. IMO this was a problem with their management.	00:09
jesuschrist	what else could have they done aja	00:09
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, ping	00:10
ajalkane	jesuschrist: they could have gone on course with Maemo. The N9 shows they could have delivered. At worst, they could have taken Windows Phone or Android as another option. Now it's all-in Microsoft. Most dumb thing ever.	00:10
Venemo	ajalkane ++	00:10
jesuschrist	i guess the all-in microsoft was something microsoft wanted and nokia couldnt say no	00:11
ajalkane	Except for Microsoft of course	00:11
jesuschrist	otherwise no deal	00:11
Venemo	btw, now that they actually HAVE Harmattan... what stops them from releasing 10 more Harmattan phones?	00:11
ajalkane	Well, it's anyway very bad deal for Nokia.	00:11
jesuschrist	android as an option would really have killed nokia imo	00:11
jesuschrist	Venemo : i guess the actual agreement with ms	00:11
merlin1991	android would probably have spawned a huge lawsuit with apple	00:11
ajalkane	Venemo: it really seems there's something in the ms agreement stopping that	00:12
DocScrutinizer	aka Flop	00:12
Venemo	ajalkane, jesuschrist, it's a stupid thing anyway.	00:12
Venemo	they should never have gone to MS.	00:12
jesuschrist	symbian really sucked, maemo6 came too late	00:12
jesuschrist	market share was sinking	00:12
jesuschrist	tbh i cant blame nokia	00:12
ajalkane	It's very stupid. But it was a good play by MS. Playing on the fears of Nokia's board of directors.	00:12
DocScrutinizer	meego was the initial point where shit started	00:13
jesuschrist	android would have meaned going into a sea of mediocrity tbh	00:13
ajalkane	MeeGo was a mistake. Pushing forward with Maemo was the sensible thing to do.	00:13
DocScrutinizer	or rather Qt	00:13
Venemo	well, they could have just released another few Fremantle phones too.	00:13
jesuschrist	ajalkane : you call them fear, i think it was pretty much real	00:14
Venemo	Qt was actually a good decision. rewriting all their shit in Qt at once was the bad decision.	00:14
petteri	just enjoy the N9 while you can (and troll the internet about nokia ms deal), everything going to sort out nicely in the end :)	00:14
Venemo	petteri ++ :)	00:14
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DocScrutinizer	petteri: s/while/if/	00:14
ajalkane	jesuschrist: Fear is ok. But Nokia got played on their fear when they cut-off MeeGo/Maemo development just to get Windows Phone. Sensible fear would have been taking Windows Phone or android yet continuing MeeGo / Maemo development and keeping options open.	00:15
jesuschrist	ajalkane : i dont know the financial situation of nokia, but i bet it wasnt (it isnt?) very good	00:16
jesuschrist	ms gave nokia 2 billion dollars	00:16
jesuschrist	for the agreement	00:16
ajalkane	jesuschrist: they have lots of money in the bank	00:16
jesuschrist	you sure about it ?	00:16
ajalkane	2 billion dollars is peanuts compared to how much they lost in stock value after the deal	00:17
DocScrutinizer	yes	00:17
jesuschrist	stock value means only for stock holders	00:17
jesuschrist	it doesnt count when you have to pay your workers wages	00:17
ajalkane	Besides, the figure I've heard was 1 billion. And as far as I understand, it was mostly for marketting Windows Phone. Again something for Microsofot.	00:17
jesuschrist	oh cmon, you describe it like it was a complete idiotic move	00:18
DocScrutinizer	it was	00:18
ajalkane	It's not completely idiotic move. But it's, in my opinion, based on fear.	00:18
jesuschrist	you really think that the board of directors of nokia are completely idiots ?	00:18
Venemo	yes. almost.	00:18
ajalkane	They're making themself MS OEM. Lose lose situation in the long run.	00:18
ajalkane	I do think most of them are complete idiots.	00:18
jesuschrist	i dont know how will it end	00:18
jesuschrist	but staying with symbian = 100% death	00:19
ajalkane	sure, but symbian wasn't the only option there was.	00:19
ZogG_N9	Venemo, hey	00:19
Venemo	ey ZogG_N9 :) what's up?	00:19
ZogG_N9	loved ur irc chatter	00:19
jesuschrist	meego came when android was already the king	00:19
jesuschrist	what happened to bada	00:19
Venemo	ZogG_N9, thanks :)	00:19
jesuschrist	??	00:19
Venemo	ZogG_N9, in fact, hiemanshu and myself have just gave it up. :) but thanks anyway	00:20
ZogG_N9	Venemo, though i wouldnt use same nav in landscape	00:20
ZogG_N9	would put it on top	00:20
ZogG_N9	why would u gave it up?	00:20
ajalkane	Probably the only non-moron that should understand stuff in Nokia's board of directors is Risto Siilasmaa. I wonder why he didn't put up a fight on this.	00:21
ZogG_N9	i would like reconnect option(changing wifi 2 3g or opposite timeouts)	00:21
Venemo	ZogG_N9, well, there are already other, better IRC clients. we believe that we have the best GUI though, so we're joining efforts with another guy and hist irc client	00:22
Venemo	ZogG_N9, latest master from git can reconnect. :) just never bothered to release a stable version of that.	00:22
ajalkane	Android was the king. But I don't honestly believe this ecosystem crap. A good device with potential for ecosystem can still sell well and create future market.	00:23
jesuschrist	after all nokia is just another capitalistic brand	00:23
jesuschrist	wich means, profits	00:23
jesuschrist	and nothing else	00:23
Venemo	IMO none of the regular casual users care about "ecosystem" or anything like that.	00:24
jesuschrist	i agree ajalkane	00:24
ajalkane	Strictly speaking they should make profits for the shareholders. And their actions since beginning of year have been anything but.	00:24
jesuschrist	but maemo6 came too fucking late	00:24
jesuschrist	and tbh isnt anything revolitionary	00:24
jesuschrist	*it	00:24
SpeedEvil	A n900 refresh in 2010 with 512M would have been positive.	00:25
DocScrutinizer	N900i	00:25
SpeedEvil	And more push into apps.	00:25
DocScrutinizer	that's why I asked recently	00:25
jesuschrist	ajalkane : since it is a public company, yes	00:25
jesuschrist	ajalkane : i really believe that in the end nokia will turn this choiches in profits	00:25
ajalkane	I agree Maemo6 would have needed to come year earlier. The whole MeeGo debacle probably was to blame. But even now, I think N9 is great enough that it can stand on its own. But it's been sabotaged by distribution and effort being put into WP	00:25
DocScrutinizer	Nokia still has all the molds for case, all the gerber files for PCB etc	00:26
jesuschrist	just to be clear, this isnt making me happy	00:26
DocScrutinizer	they even still have FCC aproval	00:26
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SpeedEvil	You don't want to make the n900 now though, you can probably shave the costs if you wanted to put out a refresh	00:26
ajalkane	jesuschrist: who knows... I do know they're putting a lot into this WP thing. The thing is, if they had put similar amounts of effort into N9, it would have been greater success than WP I think.	00:27
DocScrutinizer	SpeedEvil: sorry?	00:27
ajalkane	WP isn't exactly anymore proven platform than Maemo	00:27
SpeedEvil	I mean you wouldn't probably want to make a million n900s now with the same BOM	00:27
jesuschrist	ajalkane : wp has 7% market share or something similar...	00:27
SpeedEvil	err	00:27
SpeedEvil	not BOM	00:27
SpeedEvil	design	00:28
SpeedEvil	yes, that's the word.	00:28
DocScrutinizer	why not?	00:28
ajalkane	jesuschrist: in germany, by one report.	00:28
jesuschrist	i dont believe meego would ever come close, especially with another competitor in the fight	00:28
jesuschrist	(windows phone)	00:28
SpeedEvil	There may be cheaper equivalent components.	00:28
jesuschrist	especially since phones arent microsoft core business	00:29
DocScrutinizer	hmm, might be irrelevant, regarding to overhead for development/evaluation	00:29
ajalkane	It's not the measle WP market share that pulled Nokia into WP. It was the ecosystem spin. MS muscle, Win8 which gives vertical integration possibilities etc. That was the sales pitch.	00:29
SpeedEvil	Maybe.	00:29
jesuschrist	and everyone knows the aggressive strategy of microsoft, selling with a loss to get market shares	00:29
jesuschrist	ajalkane : yep that too	00:29
jesuschrist	something that with apple works very well	00:30
jesuschrist	in a company point of view	00:30
ajalkane	It's still just plainly stupid to put all eggs into one basket.	00:30
ajalkane	If the WP thing fails, it's not MS that falls. It's Nokia.	00:30
ZogG_N9	Venemo, ui is really good, so u merging yours with other client? whats the name where to get?	00:30
jesuschrist	they will still have the low budget phone market	00:30
jesuschrist	with melteni (is that the right name?)	00:30
Venemo	anyone knows what's the music in the flash stuff at http://swipe.nokia.com/features/ ?	00:31
Venemo	ZogG_N9, it's not done yet. so no details yet.	00:31
ajalkane	jesuschrist: True. I still think it's stupid to bet on MS. But that's just my opinion. It's not like I'm a chair in the board of directors, or ever will be :)	00:31
jesuschrist	anyway nothing is static, its not totally sure there wont be a turn back	00:32
Venemo	just look at N9 sales. they speak for themselves. (it sells well AFAIK, even though N9 is IMO very overpriced)	00:32
ajalkane	That's true. I'm just personally annoyed of having the first phone in 5 years that excites me, only to hear that it will not have a successor no matter what.	00:32
jesuschrist	lets be honest here :) part of the thrill is exactly the fact that is the last of his kind	00:33
jesuschrist	because imo the n900 was much better	00:33
Venemo	ajalkane, I don't fully believe that "will not have a successor" part of the story	00:33
ajalkane	Venemo: right. No matter how doomed it's marketed to be, it's still selling well because it's good	00:34
jesuschrist	even if i have never had one	00:34
Venemo	ajalkane, yeah	00:34
Venemo	ajalkane, oh. and the city is pretty much spammed with N9 ads where I live	00:34
jesuschrist	its like iron maiden, every fucking year they say "this is the last gig we doooooo"	00:34
ajalkane	Venemo: I don't either. It's just that Nokia has lost a lot of workforce that made the original one happen. If they change their tune there's going to be an up-hill battle to get the project going again.	00:34
Venemo	ajalkane, maybe "Meltemi" will be a successor to Harmattan on some level.	00:35
jesuschrist	so i saw them 3 times	00:35
ajalkane	Venemo: On some level. But Meltemi is feature phones. Small screen, long battery times. Very stripped down compared to N9.	00:35
jesuschrist	still i believe meltemi will sell a lot	00:36
jesuschrist	nokia is a strong brand in developing countries	00:36
Venemo	I wouldn't call phones which run Linux and Qt apps "feature phones".	00:36
jesuschrist	and it is in europe as well	00:36
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Venemo	in any way, Meltemi phones may even be more affordable than N9(x0)	00:36
ajalkane	It may sell well. But as can be seen by the talking heads, it's just basically the Swipe interface. It probably won't be even as open as N9 was. Locked down, linux core, Swipe on top.	00:37
Venemo	who knows?	00:37
jesuschrist	yeah probably it will be like that	00:37
ajalkane	Nobody knows. This is just my prediction watching what the top directors say.	00:37
jabis	wassup guise	00:37
ajalkane	What's clear is that it will be stripped down. Because it's featurephones.	00:38
jesuschrist	most of the ppl dont need an open phone	00:38
Venemo	ajalkane, again. "feature" phones which will run Qt apps.	00:38
ajalkane	I'm glad they run Qt apps. Gives some future for Qt in Nokia. But will it excite me personally? Time will tell, at the moment I'm doubtful	00:39
Venemo	ajalkane, they're saying that Qt will run on their "next billion" phones	00:39
ajalkane	jesuschrist: that's true. But many developers appreciate it. Many geeks appreciate it. That translates via word-of-mouth in time to increased sales.	00:39
jesuschrist	ajalkane: "That translates via word-of-mouth in time to increased sales."	00:40
jesuschrist	thats totally false, and you know it :D	00:40
jesuschrist	wheres openmoko now	00:40
ajalkane	Venemo: yeah, but that doesn't mean you can drop into shell and ssh somewhere using those phones. Qt is open-source, the linux kernel is open-source. Probably their browser even uses WebKit which is open-source. Otherwise it's a locked phone, which small screen. Not something that 99% of this channel will find enticing.	00:41
jesuschrist	a geek product cant, by definition, be something for the masses	00:41
ajalkane	Just my initial impressions, but I'm happy if I'm wrong and it's something great.	00:41
Venemo	ajalkane, if that will be the case, then I agree.	00:41
ZogG_N9	Venemo, put me on beta testers list	00:41
Venemo	ajalkane, however, if they'll offer a sensible looking and well priced model based on that, I may prefer to buy that against wp or android.	00:42
SpeedEvil	jesuschrist: The PC	00:42
ajalkane	jesuschrist: it's not false. At least I know that my clueless relatives are always asking my opinion about computers and gadgets because they know I'm into that stuff. So that kind of word-of-mouth builds momentum in time. It's not instantious, but it is infective.	00:42
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jesuschrist	SpeedEvil ; the pc became "mainstream" once it became a communication device	00:43
ajalkane	Venemo: Yes, I may well go that route as well. The future may well be best of worst possible choices. In fact it is that already as there is no perfect alternative.	00:43
jesuschrist	ajalkane : would you recommend the n9 ? tbh i wouldnt	00:44
Venemo	ajalkane, also, if Tizen actually delivers any products next year, those could be good as well.	00:44
ajalkane	jesuschrist: I would for a casual user.	00:44
Venemo	jesuschrist, N9 for a casual/nongeek user? for sure!	00:44
ajalkane	Venemo: they could be. Too much is unknown about Tizen at the moment.	00:44
jesuschrist	a casual user would be more happy with the apps androids/ios has!	00:44
jesuschrist	otherwise you dont need it, just get a nokia 3310	00:45
Venemo	jesuschrist, that's unture.	00:45
ajalkane	I don't think a normal mom and pop type cares about the apps.	00:45
Venemo	jesuschrist, N9 has a superior user experience	00:45
ajalkane	If someone asked me about buying N9 over android, I would ask is there any apps on android that he needs.	00:45
ajalkane	If he has some apps he needs that don't exist on N9, then I would recommend Android.	00:46
jesuschrist	superior user experience just sounds like marketing gibberish venemo tbh	00:46
jesuschrist	ajalkane : would you really recommend such a pricy phone over android ?	00:47
Venemo	jesuschrist, for me, double tap to wake up is very nice. also swipe is very good UX once you get used to it.	00:47
Venemo	jesuschrist, this is strictly IMO	00:47
ajalkane	jesuschrist: price is another factor. Let's say that the person can afford either one, then I would recommend N9. Of course N9 is overpriced at the moment, so if money was deciding factor, then no.	00:48
Venemo	if price is a limiting factor, I'd suggest them to wait a couple of months and buy a used N9	00:48
jabis	I'd like to recommend N9 for the rest of our company, but as I struggle now to get the very basic systems working over iPple and android phones - I'm mostly invigorating people from sales dept - so they can look cool	00:48
ajalkane	The over-the-top prce is just another Elop strategy	00:49
Venemo	ajalkane ++	00:49
SpeedEvil	See .my	00:49
jesuschrist	the over the top price is what drove apple where it is now...	00:49
jesuschrist	it sucks but works	00:49
ajalkane	jesuschrist: Apple has a fanatic legion of fans. Nokia doesn't	00:50
Venemo	btw, in september, I recall someone here saying that the N9 will be ~400 EUR...	00:50
jabis	the over the top price came from the recognized brand and a clueless-friendly UX	00:50
jesuschrist	i would say that the fanatic legion came AFTER apple politics and not before	00:50
Venemo	ajalkane, wut? Nokia has a lot of fanatic zealots too...	00:50
jesuschrist	i bought the n9 for 450 and sometimes i still think i paied too much :(	00:51
Venemo	has always had them	00:51
ajalkane	The price of N9 is based only on two things: 1) monetizing, or recuperating the costs put into MeeGo development, 2) trying to limit success so that WP gets to shine	00:51
jabis	N9 gathered a lot of traction here (in Finland) not because it was marketed, but because it was seemingly _better_ than the alternatives	00:51
ZogG_N9	jer	00:51
ajalkane	Venemo: true, but there's lots of Symbian phones to keep the fanatics at bay ;)	00:51
jesuschrist	yeah but the "better" illusion was also created by "last-of-his-kind-forever-hurry-up-people" effect	00:52
ajalkane	And I'd say an average Apple fanatic is more used to paying over-the-top price than a Nokia fanatic.	00:52
ZogG_N9	jesuschrist, u bought n950?	00:52
ZogG_N9	where?	00:53
jesuschrist	n9 for 450 euro, not n950	00:53
jabis	that doesn't make meego any less "sexy" a platform - it has sold more in pre-sales than thought out in the first place for the whole production line X)	00:53
ajalkane	jesuschrist: where did you get it that cheap?	00:53
jesuschrist	ajalkane : second hand from an apple fan who bought it and wanted to sell it to get the new 4s	00:54
jabis	4S came as a disappointment too which gave it more traction too x)	00:54
Venemo	heheh	00:54
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ajalkane	jesuschrist: that was good luck. IMO, I'd pay 500€ for the 64Gb model.	00:54
jesuschrist	ofc its the 16gb version	00:54
Venemo	in any case. I'm happy to have the N950. wouldn't have money for the N9 anyway.	00:54
ZogG_N9	ios 5 is a joke	00:54
jesuschrist	500 for 64gb is a real deal	00:54
ajalkane	Venemo: I'm in the same boat. I do want N9, but I couldn't afford it right now. I hope the cost falls down early next year and maybe I can afford it.	00:55
jesuschrist	but i think you misunderstood me, i paied 450 for the 16 gb	00:55
jabis	I'm still waiting for 950's for our r&d, I hate breaking CE products in favor of developing x)	00:55
ajalkane	jesuschrist: No, I understood that. I'm just saying that if the 64Gb model was 500€ I'd think it's fair price	00:56
ZogG_N9	550 for 64 and bj would be good =)	00:56
ajalkane	bj is always good	00:56
ZogG_N9	south park is cool	00:56
Venemo	ajalkane, well, as long as I have the N950, I won't want to buy the N9 :)	00:56
jesuschrist	ajalkane : i think i saw some new 16 gb model for 500 euro on ebay	00:57
ajalkane	Venemo: I actually do want to buy N9 even as I have N950. But I do have to wait when I have the money to do it.	00:57
jesuschrist	why getting the n9 if you have the n950 ?	00:57
ajalkane	jesuschrist: I want 64. For the 16Gb model I think under 400€ would be ok	00:57
jabis	after-christmas market is when it'll drop (the finnish way to handle business)	00:57
jesuschrist	yeah especially since, you dont get 16 gb of free space, but 8.80...	00:58
Venemo	ajalkane :)	00:58
ajalkane	jesuschrist: slimmer, notifications on stand-by. Just a cooler phone. I could keep the N950 purely for development / messing around then.	00:58
Venemo	ajalkane, well, if it gets cheaper and I get richer, I may want to get a white 64GB N9.	00:58
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jabis	I hate to use my work phone for testing too, ajalkane x)	00:59
jabis	but if I don't do it - we'll get no software written ever x)	00:59
jesuschrist	ajalkane : what about a phone exchange ? :D	00:59
ajalkane	jabis: right ;)	00:59
ajalkane	jesuschrist: Well I can't exchange. It's part of the development program rules.	01:00
ajalkane	I follow the rules I sign into. I'm funny like that :P	01:00
Venemo	jesuschrist, N950 is still owned by Nokia, only loaned to us. so we can't give it to you.	01:01
jabis	then again 250 N950's compared to 20-30000 lumia feels like a bitchslap on my dick x)	01:01
jesuschrist	i was joking, relax, no nokia cops here	01:01
jesuschrist	:D	01:01
ajalkane	Besides, there's something quite cool having a phone as rare as N950.	01:01
jabis	tho we need those phones too -.-	01:01
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Venemo	ajalkane yeah	01:01
Venemo	ajalkane, the way people are looking at the N950 when I use it... is worth it!	01:02
ajalkane	Venemo: yeah, I've had a couple of inquiries if that's the N9. And the puzzlement is quite visible when showing the keyboard and explaining what it is.	01:02
jesuschrist	"what are keyboard herp derp"	01:03
jesuschrist	?	01:03
jesuschrist	:D	01:03
jabis	ajalkane, I may have to come show tits and claim your phone -.- x)	01:03
Venemo	well, none of my acquintances actually knew about da N9. but many of them noted that they've never seen a Nokia phone like this before.	01:03
Venemo	some mistook it for the E7, but that was quite a rare reaction.	01:04
ajalkane	jabis: you better be a woman or you don't stand a chacne	01:04
ajalkane	I sleep with my N950	01:04
jabis	I have pictures - come on -.-	01:04
jesuschrist	pass the pics in query aja	01:04
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Venemo	I sleep with my N950 too :) ajalkane :)	01:04
jabis	PERVERTS - ALL OVER THE PLACE :O	01:05
jesuschrist	:D	01:05
jabis	ahaha :D	01:05
jabis	it's not THAT smart a phone to evade your puny asses x)	01:05
Venemo	well, to be exact, I usually plug in my earphones and listen to music from the N950 while falling asleep.	01:05
toninikkanen	i went to a Nokia Lumia launch event wielding the N950 and no-one took notice	01:05
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ajalkane	I hug it. My wife gets sometimes jealous. But what can I do. The N950 is part of my family now.	01:06
jesuschrist	lol	01:06
jabis	N9 > L800	01:06
toninikkanen	if i had a n950 that lasted longer than my wife does, i'd feel the same as well	01:06
toninikkanen	jabis: lexicographically speaking, you're right	01:07
Venemo	ajalkane, but you hug your wife too, don't you?	01:07
jabis	of course I am x) doh	01:07
jabis	I hug ajalkanes wife - even he doesn't like it -.-	01:07
jesuschrist	do you guys have REAL GOLF 2011 (woohoo) on n950 as well ?	01:08
ajalkane	Venemo: I do, quite much. But women can be irrational, they don't always understand I can love my N950 and her too!	01:08
Venemo	ajalkane, hehehe	01:08
ajalkane	I don't have the golf thing	01:08
jabis	lol - real golf (>300mb) why couldn't I update without it x	01:08
jesuschrist	pity you	01:08
ajalkane	jabis: Well, if you have as good tits as you advertised, I don't mind watching you hugging my wife.	01:08
jabis	ajalkane: also I've a marvelous ASS that (women) tend to grab on -.-	01:09
ajalkane	jabis: shit, you say you have great man tits and a tight ass?	01:09
jesuschrist	women betray you, the n950 doesnt aja!	01:09
DocScrutinizer	hooker800 still to be seen how great it actually is	01:10
*** rm_work has quit IRC		01:10
ajalkane	Okay, I withdraw, I don't want to watch you hugging my wife. I'll hug my wife and my N950 at the same time	01:10
macmaN	wouldnt be too sure about that	01:10
jabis	ajal, if I hadn't such a dick - you'd get fooled X)	01:10
macmaN	today the woman was sending some pics from her N9 to my N950 over BT	01:10
macmaN	N950 totally UI locked	01:10
macmaN	the file acceptance dialog somehow gets hung underneath the lock screen	01:10
jesuschrist	to protect you	01:10
ajalkane	jesuschrist: True true. Sniff... You can't count on women. But N950. Best friends forever.	01:10
macmaN	if you swipe away lock screen, the accept dialog is shown while swiping, then immediately is dropped in favor of news feed home screen, that wont accept any input. only reboot helped.	01:11
Venemo	well, I've held a Lumia 800 in my hands. hw-wise it's just an N9. it feels good in the hand, but WP7 feels in some way alien on it.	01:11
macmaN	i consider that cheating on me	01:11
ajalkane	jabis: I've heard some horror stories of good looking women with dicks. Marrying has some good benefits, as you never have to experience that	01:12
DocScrutinizer	macmaN: HAHAHA	01:12
SpeedEvil	~ $ dmesg\|head	01:12
SpeedEvil	[ 0.000000] Initializing cgroup subsys cpu	01:12
SpeedEvil	[ 0.000000] Linux version 2.6.32.39-dfl61-20113701 (bifh2@) (gcc version 4.4.1 ('cs2009q3-hard-67-sb16') ) #1 PREEMPT Mon Sep 12 11:29:43 EEST 2011	01:12
SpeedEvil	[ 0.000000] Machine: Nokia RM-680 board	01:12
SpeedEvil	(latest OTA)	01:12
toninikkanen	RM-680 aahhh... not RM-803 ahhhh	01:13
macmaN	SpeedEvil: whataboutit	01:13
jabis	ajalkane: luckily I'm married so you don't have to get confused then x)	01:14
ajalkane	jabis: yeah but the worls is full of confusion. I've heard wild tales of thailand "girls". But being married makes me luckily immune to them also.	01:15
ajalkane	God bless marriage. And N9(50). Keeps a man honest.	01:15
*** leinir has quit IRC		01:15
Venemo	heheh :)	01:15
ZogG_N9	wft wrong with you people?	01:16
jabis	lol	01:16
ZogG_N9	be cool like Venemo	01:16
Venemo	wut, they're cool too	01:16
ZogG_N9	~give a beer to Venemo	01:16
* infobot gives beer to Venemo to a		01:16
ZogG_N9	=(	01:16
jabis	venemo screws everything with or without crotch	01:16
ajalkane	Dude... not everyone can be cool like Venemo. We just have to be cool like... umm... some boho that got into this channel :)	01:17
Venemo	lol	01:17
ZogG_N9	hey hey	01:17
jabis	I knew there was SOME truth here x)	01:17
ZogG_N9	~zogg	01:18
ZogG_N9	~ZogG	01:18
jabis	~tits	01:18
infobot	What about them?	01:18
ajalkane	I wonder if Nokia Store would accept a game of Elop screwing everything with or without a scrotch...	01:18
jabis	x)	01:18
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer, is it per chan settings?	01:18
jabis	ajal, that would be more like an animation x)	01:19
ZogG_N9	btw there was elop related game in o i	01:19
ajalkane	ZogG_N9: yeah the one where he was putting out fires?	01:19
jabis	o i sounds disturbingly like i/o x)	01:19
ZogG_N9	ovi*	01:19
ajalkane	It was rapidly removed	01:19
ajalkane	I don't understand why. Sounded fun :)	01:19
ZogG_N9	if i woukd him i would preview n9 with it =)	01:20
Venemo	~MohammadAG	01:20
infobot	[mohammadag] your father, or special	01:20
jabis	e-loping was a game written in qbasic	01:20
jesuschrist	lol there was an app on elop ? :D	01:20
ajalkane	it even had quite nice graphics	01:21
jesuschrist	for n9 ?	01:21
ZogG_N9	is it arounf anywhere?	01:22
ajalkane	No... symbian. It was before N9 got released.	01:22
ZogG_N9	and what happrned.to uploader?	01:22
jabis	man my cats are furious - try to rid them of my mattress both miaou and hiss you to death ;<	01:22
ajalkane	The uploader is dead already, of course, but I think the binary is floating somewhere in internet.	01:23
jesuschrist	killed by finnish hitmen	01:23
jesuschrist	:(	01:23
ajalkane	No. Finnish people only try to make victim drink so much he pukes. This was done by Elop's true masters at MS. No kidding.	01:24
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jabis	why did you have to drag us into it polishing the RK-62	01:24
toninikkanen	rk-62 is a poor example of original finnish design	01:25
toninikkanen	being based on the ak-47	01:25
jesuschrist	russia always been a step ahead	01:25
jabis	have to commend eflop tho, no other CEO has managed to plummet over 60% of value in such short time	01:26
toninikkanen	ak-4 being based on the german mp-40 .. :) but everything in this world is based on something else so	01:26
ZogG_N9	ak is stolen as well	01:26
toninikkanen	jabis: oh really? i wouldn't give mr. apotheker much credit either	01:26
ZogG_N9	from germans	01:26
toninikkanen	de zermans	01:27
ZogG_N9	zee germans like turkish said	01:27
jabis	toni, true dat - but still if you look at pure stock value eflop nailed it x)	01:27
ZogG_N9	=)	01:28
ajalkane	Elop's done great job at making Nokia sale worthy.	01:28
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jabis	I managed to sell when the value was "high enough" just when eflop was announced - too bad my buddies didn't - my portfolio still looking bright and shiney x)	01:28
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_N9: is what per-cah setting?	01:28
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ZogG_N9	what?	01:29
DocScrutinizer	per-chan*	01:29
ZogG_N9	ow the bot	01:29
jabis	per-cah sounds like klingon x)	01:29
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DocScrutinizer	capplah	01:29
toninikkanen	sale rumos schlale schrumorszh	01:29
jabis	K'Plah or some shit like that x)	01:30
ZogG_N9	here is toni	01:30
toninikkanen	i only believe that if some part of nokia were sold it would be the "services" division	01:30
toninikkanen	in microsoft context...	01:30
ZogG_N9	bullet in the teeth	01:30
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_N9: still lost on what you wanna know	01:30
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toninikkanen	which, as it is, is a nice package of navteq and location based services assets	01:31
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer, bever mind	01:31
jabis	toni, I wouldn't be too surprised after the plummeting - tho I believe the high tech functions would still be only acchievable here	01:31
DocScrutinizer	~+chanset #harmattan	01:32
infobot	chan: #harmattan (see _default also)	01:32
infobot	autojoin => infobot	01:32
jabis	~tits again	01:32
jabis	~tits	01:32
infobot	What about them?	01:32
ZogG_N9	~boobies are better than tits	01:33
infobot	...but boobies is already something else...	01:33
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo tits	01:33
infobot	tits -- created by sylvanaar <~sylvanaar@unaffiliated/sylvanaar> at Sun Jan 23 03:28:02 2011 (291 days); it has been requested 4 times, last by jabis, 38s ago.	01:33
DocScrutinizer	~literal tits	01:33
infobot	"tits" is "<reply>What about them?"	01:33
ZogG_N9	~boobies	01:33
infobot	boobies are always fun to play with, or very big	01:33
ZogG_N9	~ai is DocScrutinizer himself	01:33
infobot	...but ai is already something else...	01:33
ZogG_N9	damn =(	01:34
jabis	nice with them mammaries here X)	01:34
ZogG_N9	but we know he is bot	01:34
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer is bot	01:34
DocScrutinizer	yes	01:34
jabis	he as in Doc or info	01:34
jabis	~tits	01:35
infobot	What about them?	01:35
jabis	~doctits	01:35
DocScrutinizer	I don't know what you are talking about	01:35
jabis	lol	01:35
jabis	22:34 < jabis> ~tits	01:35
jabis	22:35 <+infobot> What about them?	01:35
jabis	22:35 < jabis> ~doctits	01:35
jabis	22:35 < DocScrutinizer> I don't know what you are talking about	01:35
jabis	that'll keep me humoured a long while x) luckily I'm with stupid x)	01:36
Venemo	:D	01:37
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_N9: (per-chan) usually there's not much per-chan settings in infobot, so also no per-chan factoids	01:38
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_N9: though see	01:38
jesuschrist	good n8 ppl	01:39
DocScrutinizer	~+chanset #openmoko-cdevel	01:39
infobot	chan: #openmoko-cdevel (see _default also)	01:39
infobot	_time_added => 1254161553, autojoin => apt, factoidSearch => $chan #openmoko _default	01:39
jesuschrist	good n9 ppl ? :)	01:39
jesuschrist	see you	01:39
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DocScrutinizer	~logs	01:39
infobot	All conversations are logged to http://ibot.rikers.org/%23harmattan/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily.	01:39
DocScrutinizer	~ #openmoko-cdevel logs	01:39
infobot	logs are on http://ibot.rikers.org/channel, where "channel" is replaced by the URL-encoded channel name, such as %23freenode for #freenode. Lines starting with spaces are not logged. logs are updated daily --- livelogs are http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko-cdevel.txt and http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/#openmoko-cdevel.livelog	01:39
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DocScrutinizer	factoidSearch => $chan #openmoko _default means infobot will search for factoids like "#openmoko <factoidname>" first for all ~factoid queries in #openmoko-cdevel	01:42
*** jpnurmi has joined #harmattan		01:43
*** jpnurmi has joined #harmattan		01:43
DocScrutinizer	also means all factoid definitions like "~foo is bar" will get stored like "#openmoko foo -> bar" when done in that channel	01:44
*** jpnurmi is now known as jirssi		01:44
*** jirssi is now known as jpnurmi		01:44
DocScrutinizer	umm, actually I'm not all sure about that last part	01:44
jabis	~scrutinizing is schmutinizing	01:45
infobot	okay, jabis	01:45
jabis	test it via another channel then ^^	01:46
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ZogG_N9	01:46 infobot: it has been said that scrutinizing is schmutinizing	01:47
Venemo	btw	01:47
Venemo	how can I add my own pic to the Harmattan lockscreen backgrounds?	01:48
ZogG_N9	Venemo why would you?	01:48
ZogG_N9	put my pic	01:48
Venemo	ZogG_N9, bored of the default ones.	01:48
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Venemo	MEH, I didn't mean it like that.	01:48
ZogG_N9	u have wallpapers album i think	01:49
Venemo	I mean: how can I add a custom pic to the Harmattan lockscreen?	01:49
ZogG_N9	and in settings you set it	01:49
Venemo	hmm	01:49
Venemo	wallpapers album?	01:49
jabis	loldongzorz	01:50
jabis	~scrutinizing is a state of mind deducted from a point of view without conception	01:51
infobot	...but scrutinizing is already something else...	01:51
jabis	lol	01:51
Venemo	~scrutinizing	01:51
infobot	methinks scrutinizing is schmutinizing	01:51
ZogG_N9	venemo /home/user/.wallpaper	01:53
DocScrutinizer	infobot: no, scrutinizing is what DocScrutinizer does after eating some datasheets for breakfast	01:54
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	01:54
ZogG_N9	but there is only one here though they have folder with few and if u choose it copies it to folder i said	01:54
DocScrutinizer	~lock scrutinizing	01:54
infobot	DocScrutinizer: locking factoid scrutinizing	01:54
ZogG_N9	=(	01:54
jabis	that sounds	01:55
jabis	like	01:55
jabis	~hitlerizing is ultimately deciding that certain people with tits have lesser equal rights than the one with titties	01:56
infobot	jabis: okay	01:56
jabis	~lock hitlerizing	01:56
jabis	x)	01:56
ZogG_N9	lol	01:56
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer, is dictator	01:57
jabis	all hail titties then \o/	01:57
Venemo	ZogG_N9, awww! there is "Set as wallpaper" in the gallery app!!! :D	01:57
* jabis making weird sounds of people cheering for titties		01:57
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo scrutinizing	01:58
infobot	scrutinizing -- created by jabis <~jabis@alpha.pumppumedia.com> 13m 6s ago; last modified 4m 30s ago by DocScrutinizer!~halley@openmoko/engineers/joerg; it has been requested 2 times, last by Venemo, 6m 47s ago; it has been locked by DocScrutinizer.	01:58
DocScrutinizer	~+help lock	01:59
infobot	Desc: Factoid locking to prevent removal by others	01:59
infobot	Usage: lock <factoid>	01:59
infobot	Example: lock abuse	01:59
infobot	NOTE: By default, only registered "ops" on the bots or factoids matching the user's nick are able to lock factoids.	01:59
infobot	NOTE: Requires factoid extension (extra) support enabled.	01:59
jabis	~lock titties amazing	01:59
jabis	nvm me - I'm just enjoying some... titties ... x)	02:00
jabis	~lock hitlerizing	02:00
DocScrutinizer	"...so barf it back up, devil! do you hear!?"	02:01
jabis	why can't I lock them titties x)	02:01
jabis	unnecessary inhibitions x)	02:01
DocScrutinizer	jabis: because your nick isn't titties and you're not infobot's master either	02:01
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jabis	that doesn'd explain titties - rite nao x)	02:02
ZogG_N9	~ZogG is awesome	02:02
infobot	okay, ZogG_N9	02:02
ZogG_N9	~lock ZogG	02:02
Venemo	good night folks :)	02:02
ZogG_N9	night	02:03
jabis	nini	02:03
DocScrutinizer	/nick ZogG	02:03
ZogG_N9	~lock zogg	02:03
*** ZogG_N9 is now known as zN9		02:04
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DocScrutinizer	ZogG_N9 != zogg	02:04
zN9	i cant log in into zogg coz its logged in from pc	02:04
jabis	~jabis will never have tits - he be skinny	02:04
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jabis	~jabis will never have tits - he be skinny	02:05
jabis	wtf doublefail ;<	02:05
jabis	many nice beers	02:05
DocScrutinizer	~jabis is <reply>jabis will never have tits - he be skinny	02:05
infobot	okay, DocScrutinizer	02:05
DocScrutinizer	~forget jabis	02:06
infobot	i forgot jabis, DocScrutinizer	02:06
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jabis	~tits	02:07
infobot	What about them?	02:07
jabis	didn't forget about them -.-	02:07
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Sazpaimon	so I made a maemo 5 chroot on my N9	02:07
Sazpaimon	it works kind of	02:07
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jabis	Sazpaimon: care to elaborate?	02:07
Sazpaimon	hildon applications start and demonstrate some functionality	02:08
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Sazpaimon	its using a generic gtk theme, however, and i occasionally see crashes with segfaults and/or floading point exceptions	02:08
DocScrutinizer	jabis: <factoid> IS foo bar bla blub	02:08
Sazpaimon	but I installed maemo by using the SDK rootstrap, replaced all of the bash,coreutils, etc packages with busybox variants, and installed mp-fremantle-community-pr	02:09
jabis	Doc, thanks for the annullment	02:09
DocScrutinizer	you could've done that as well	02:09
Sazpaimon	which had dependencies for most stock maemo 5 packages	02:09
jabis	sure - as I'm a tizzard :u	02:10
DocScrutinizer	jabis: I just created a factoid for you	02:10
DocScrutinizer	and removed it	02:10
Sazpaimon	for fun, i tested picodrive, and it works alright	02:10
jabis	DocScrutinizer: meh - I'm not serious - I'm Finn x)	02:10
Sazpaimon	i was able to load a rom from the command line, but the osso-games-manager UI crashes when i try to select a rom from the file browser	02:10
Sazpaimon	hildon-desktop also crashes	02:10
DocScrutinizer	~unforget jabis	02:10
infobot	DocScrutinizer: Successfully recovered 'jabis'. Have fun now.	02:10
DocScrutinizer	:-P	02:10
Sazpaimon	keep in mind i hacked this together at like 4AM	02:11
DocScrutinizer	~jabis	02:11
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, jabis is awesome guy	02:11
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DocScrutinizer	hah	02:11
DocScrutinizer	~factinfo jabis	02:11
Sazpaimon	oh, and all text is showing up as squares	02:11
infobot	jabis -- created by ZogG-laptop <~zogg@bzq-79-177-202-146.red.bezeqint.net> at Sat Oct 22 23:27:52 2011 (19 days); last modified at Sat Oct 22 23:28:44 2011 by javispedro; it has been requested once, last by DocScrutinizer, 19s ago.	02:11
zN9	Sazpaimon, i dont think they hear u	02:11
jabis	muahhahahaha :S	02:11
Sazpaimon	jabis asked for an elaboration	02:11
Sazpaimon	so I did	02:11
DocScrutinizer	WTF?!	02:11
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zN9	i created jabbis?	02:12
jabis	Sazpaimon: nah I was serious :) just wondered why you'd want to run a prior maemo on top :)	02:12
Sazpaimon	jabis, for fun really	02:12
Sazpaimon	none of the maemo 5 apps are useful without a real keyboard	02:13
DocScrutinizer	jabis: you can define, delete (~forget), lock and unlock your own nick's factoid	02:13
jabis	zN9, you're not my mother nor my father - so stop saying that X)	02:13
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Sazpaimon	also	02:13
jabis	Doc, I've gathered as much :D	02:13
Sazpaimon	does anyone else experience google maps locking the browser up on their device	02:14
Sazpaimon	real google maps, not the mobile maps	02:14
zN9	jabis is insane )	02:14
jabis	~jabis has lost his mind working on mobile	02:14
DocScrutinizer	missing IS	02:15
Sazpaimon	oh, almost forgot	02:15
Sazpaimon	trying to compile lightspark on scratchbox, getting this error: http://pastebin.com/mvXfJxVp	02:15
Sazpaimon	#lightspark has been unhelpful for days	02:15
jabis	yet again goddamnit - I must stop drinking so I can emphasize my capabilities X)	02:15
Sazpaimon	if anyone could help i'd appreciate it	02:16
jabis	~jabis is has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:16
infobot	...but jabis is already something else...	02:16
jabis	blah :D	02:16
DocScrutinizer	~jabis	02:16
infobot	rumour has it, jabis is awesome guy	02:16
DocScrutinizer	~forget jabis	02:16
infobot	DocScrutinizer: i forgot jabis	02:16
DocScrutinizer	~jabis is has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:17
infobot	DocScrutinizer: okay	02:17
DocScrutinizer	~jabis	02:17
infobot	from memory, jabis is has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:17
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jabis	aww fucked up man x)	02:17
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DocScrutinizer	infobot: no, ~jabis is <reply>jabis has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:18
infobot	DocScrutinizer: okay	02:18
DocScrutinizer	~jabis	02:18
infobot	i heard jabis is has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:18
DocScrutinizer	wtf	02:18
jabis	what's it with is has x)	02:18
DocScrutinizer	~forget jabis	02:18
infobot	i forgot jabis, DocScrutinizer	02:18
DocScrutinizer	~jabis is <reply>jabis has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:19
infobot	DocScrutinizer: okay	02:19
DocScrutinizer	~jabis	02:19
infobot	jabis has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:19
DocScrutinizer	haha, botbug	02:19
DocScrutinizer	nah, docbug	02:19
DocScrutinizer	infobot: ~jabis	02:19
infobot	jabis has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:20
DocScrutinizer	infobot: ~~jabis	02:20
DocScrutinizer	whatever	02:20
jabis	why is my questionmark an =	02:20
DocScrutinizer	infobot: no, ~jabis is... is one ~ too much	02:20
infobot	DocScrutinizer: okay	02:20
ZogG	!lock ZogG	02:20
merlin1991	~docbug is what happens if you try to configure your bot @ 1 am in the morning	02:20
DocScrutinizer	I don't know what you are talking about	02:20
infobot	merlin1991: okay	02:20
ZogG	~lock ZogG	02:20
DocScrutinizer	WAAAH	02:20
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DocScrutinizer	LOL	02:21
merlin1991	~docbug	02:21
DocScrutinizer	I don't know what you are talking about	02:21
infobot	somebody said docbug was what happens if you try to configure your bot @ 1 am in the morning	02:21
ZogG	infobot sorry, you are not allowed to lock 'zogg'.	02:21
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merlin1991	love it how I get bot bots life :P	02:21
DocScrutinizer	~~jabis	02:21
infobot	jabis has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	02:21
DocScrutinizer	~listkeys jabis	02:21
infobot	Factoid search of 'jabis' by key (4): jabis #DEL# ;; ~jabis is... ;; jabis ;; ~jabis.	02:21
DocScrutinizer	~forget ~jabis is...	02:22
infobot	DocScrutinizer: i forgot ~jabis is...	02:22
DocScrutinizer	~forget ~jabis	02:22
infobot	DocScrutinizer: i forgot ~jabis	02:22
jabis	, no= vs no? x)	02:22
DocScrutinizer	your post	02:22
DocScrutinizer	I just c&p	02:22
jabis	has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no?	02:23
jabis	my shift+insert	02:23
DocScrutinizer	nayway, seems we got some calls for OT	02:23
ZogG	~Recursion is the Recursion	02:23
infobot	...but recursion is already something else...	02:23
ZogG	~Recursion	02:24
infobot	To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. see ~recursion	02:24
jabis	~recursion	02:24
infobot	To understand recursion, you must first understand recursion. see ~recursion	02:24
jabis	but howbout	02:24
jabis	~tits	02:24
infobot	What about them?	02:24
jabis	~boobies	02:24
infobot	boobies are always fun to play with, or very big	02:24
jabis	~knockers	02:24
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DocScrutinizer	~query	02:25
infobot	talk dirty to me! Preferably, do so after you have typed "/query infobot" which should open a new window/tab/whatever with most irc clients. You can talk to me all you like and don't annoy other people with endless queries. Be aware that the stuff you write is logged, so don't get too 1337 :)	02:25
jabis	~kockers is tits time boobies and more over silicone	02:25
infobot	jabis: okay	02:25
DocScrutinizer	I know I started that (well somehow)	02:25
ZogG	i started it with simple question	02:25
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merlin1991	I'm scared of tracker going insane in a sec	02:27
DocScrutinizer	simple answer: usually factoids are not chan specific, unless bot is specially configured to dela with chan sepcific factoids. Even then you need to define them in a way like "~$CHAN <factoidname> IS bla blub"	02:27
merlin1991	just threw way too much media @ it	02:27
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z720	PR1.1 now in Navifirm	03:15
DocScrutinizer	WUT?	03:18
DocScrutinizer	cool	03:18
z720	yupe.. just clear the cache reload again you will see it globally	03:18
DocScrutinizer	mind to get the true URLs on that nokia fileserver?	03:18
z720	no idea how to get that from navifirm	03:19
DocScrutinizer	wait, I'll ask MrCrab	03:19
DocScrutinizer	hmm, not yet: http://mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productType=RM-696&productID=4823499691	03:20
z720	yupe.. I check this morning GMT+8 only found Navifirm updated other still dont have	03:22
DocScrutinizer	not everybody has or can run navifirm though	03:22
z720	ok now i found the URL, what code you want 001 002 or 003?	03:22
DocScrutinizer	shrug, probably 001?	03:22
DocScrutinizer	all three? ;-D	03:23
z720	hangon	03:23
z720	sorry by country much more easy	03:26
DocScrutinizer	oh well. Germany	03:26
z720	16G or 64G?	03:27
z720	:-)	03:27
DocScrutinizer	I'm really lost on the variants at MrCrab	03:30
DocScrutinizer	16	03:30
DocScrutinizer	though... HTF shall I know what Nokia sent to me?	03:31
DocScrutinizer	I know it's black and 16GB	03:31
z720	http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/p/d/fds_fire/1110/2709/6514740380/DFL61_HARMATTAN_20.2011.40-4_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin	03:31
DocScrutinizer	and for the life of mine I can't see what's the differences between e.g Varian Name : RM-696 NDT CENTRAL EUROPE BLACK 16GB and Varian Name : RM-696 16G GLOBAL BLACK SWAP	03:32
DocScrutinizer	the *ARM.bin looks like it's always the same though	03:33
SpeedEvil	*PPC.bin is rather unlikely.	03:33
z720	no idea.. but in Navfirm it split by country , color , size .	03:33
DocScrutinizer	yeah, and that's what MrCrab does as well, and then you always land at DFL61_HARMATTAN_10.2011.34-1_PR_LEGACY_001-OEM1-958_ARM.bin, but the other files sometimes differ	03:34
DocScrutinizer	and no clue what those files are in the end	03:34
DocScrutinizer	I mean RM696_059K3R1_10.2011.34.1_002.vpl simlock_maemo__deB_allowed2_3gstandard_bb5_multi_asic0.bin simlock_maemo__deB_allowed2_3gstandard_bb5_multi_asic1.bin RM696_059K3R1_10.2011.34.1_002.dcp RM696_059K3R1_10.2011.34.1_002_signature.bin WTF? do I need those, want those? and if so, then to do what with them?	03:37
z720	me too, no idea use of that file	03:37
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z720	upgrading now.	03:53
SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer; I mentioned earlier that the latest OTA on n950 allows dmesg	03:53
DocScrutinizer	wut?	03:54
DocScrutinizer	we got back dmesg?	03:54
DocScrutinizer	I'm pondering to do some N9 update right now, after 40-4 image popped up	03:54
z720	N9 Updated.	04:00
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* SpeedEvil imagines new versions of n800, 810, and 900 OSs sitting on nokia servers unnoticed for months or years.		04:01
DocScrutinizer	yeah	04:04
z720	open camera a bit slow	04:04
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if that other files cruft as mentioned in e.g. http://mrcrab.net/nokia/Nokia_N9.html?productType=RM-696&releaseID=6324395729&version=10.2011.34.1&variantID=6442996292 is maybe for phoenix flasher to restore really nasty stuff like certs, simlock, whatnot else, to CAL, cmt, etc		04:05
* DocScrutinizer ponders to scan thru N900 L3_L4 (and L1_2 maybe too) to find out about how phoneix flasher is supposed to get the data to flash Nokia phones, and esp where from		04:08
SpeedEvil	Interesting possibilities.	04:08
SpeedEvil	From memory, it's not very detailed, and implies a seperate flasher-box manual	04:08
DocScrutinizer	:-/ meh!	04:09
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z720	load damn high compare to PR1.0	04:17
z720	10:15:17 up 4 min, load average: 4.31, 3.25, 1.40	04:17
z720	10:15:58 up 5 min, load average: 2.03, 2.79, 1.33	04:17
z720	kernel not updated if I still recall	04:18
z720	Linux RM696 2.6.32.39-dfl61-20113701 #1 PREEMPT Tue Oct 25 14:39:04 EEST 2011 armv7l GNU/Linux	04:18
SpeedEvil	There was an issue I saw where compositor went screwy and was eating CPU	04:19
DocScrutinizer	htop	04:20
DocScrutinizer	but may also be tracker-indexerd	04:21
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DocScrutinizer	esp if there are some files of yours in MyDocs already	04:21
z720	voice and sound crystal clear	04:22
DocScrutinizer	I'd give the device 3 reboots at least	04:23
z720	i just reboot 1	04:23
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z720	found this /usr/bin/camera-ui -prestart	04:23
DocScrutinizer	wait 10..15min, then reboot another 2 times	04:23
z720	ok	04:23
DocScrutinizer	no warranty it will help anything	04:24
DocScrutinizer	esp if it's a camera thing	04:24
DocScrutinizer	(though maybe they spy on the scared faces of users doing the update X-P )	04:24
DocScrutinizer	(just kidding)	04:25
z720	how to transfer file from PC to N9, keep received denied	04:25
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z720	via bluetooth	04:25
DocScrutinizer	nfc	04:25
DocScrutinizer	I'd use mass storage	04:25
z720	my PC does not hv nfc	04:25
DocScrutinizer	errr	04:26
DocScrutinizer	USB?	04:26
z720	just want to test bluetooth .. nvm	04:26
DocScrutinizer	~nfc	04:26
infobot	nfc is, like, No Fucking Clue	04:26
z720	yupe	04:26
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DocScrutinizer	on N900 I never succeeded to push to device, just from device to PC	04:27
DocScrutinizer	vi aBT	04:27
z720	looks like N9 also hv tat problem	04:28
DocScrutinizer	maybe it's a PC side problem	04:29
DocScrutinizer	PC missing the right profile for BT to push	04:30
DocScrutinizer	would be interesting to toss around files from one device (phone) to the other, back and forth	04:31
DocScrutinizer	then check what'S the BT profiles involved	04:31
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z720	PC bluetooth no problem with samsung I900	04:32
DocScrutinizer	fremantle PR1.1 couldn't sync via BT to PR1.2	04:32
z720	now the load looks good 10:30:16 up 3 min, load average: 0.94, 0.81, 0.34	04:32
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DocScrutinizer	mhm	04:42
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z720	need vpn pls	04:52
merlin1991	hm weird my n9 product code is 059J1Z5 that firmware variant is called NDT ? oO	05:04
merlin1991	hm ota update is scary, was stuck @ 0% for 5 min	05:17
z720	use flasher faster OTA can cause infinity reboot if network not stable	05:22
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merlin1991	what does ndt stand for actually?	05:31
SpeedEvil	Non Destructive Testing.	05:31
SpeedEvil	(Probably not in this case)	05:32
SpeedEvil	Though it is an optimistic thing to hope that users do to phones.	05:32
merlin1991	my product code leads to: 059J1Z5: RM-696 NDT 16GB BLACK	05:33
merlin1991	so I wonder what ndt stands for :)	05:33
merlin1991	the app-manager is mocking me, first it said updating with a % now it just says your device is being updated :D	05:35
SpeedEvil	Wait ages	05:35
SpeedEvil	it took about an hour here	05:35
merlin1991	did it ask you inbetween to enable wlan? mine did and I said no	05:36
merlin1991	now I have a reboot loop	05:36
merlin1991	ah wait no, 2 reboots then it came up, oO	05:37
SpeedEvil	Off.	05:38
SpeedEvil	Odd.	05:38
SpeedEvil	GOF keeps getting stuck at the wrong 'level' in the compositor.	05:38
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merlin1991	hm angry birds gets an update	05:47
merlin1991	and tracker is going berzerk ever since I upgraded, yay	05:54
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meegomy	anyone own N9 here?	06:40
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Corsac	grmbl, so account passwords aren't remembered anymore	07:53
Corsac	prft.	07:53
dm8tbr	Corsac: device asks for password on every reboot?	07:56
Corsac	yes	07:56
Corsac	any idea how to fix/workaround that?	07:56
dm8tbr	Corsac: do you have a backup from before that started happening?	07:56
Corsac	well, I have a pre-1.1 backup	07:56
Corsac	but I recreated the mail account after 1.1 so...	07:56
dm8tbr	one option you could try is recreating accounts	07:57
dm8tbr	the other is putting a backup back in	07:57
iekku	morning	08:00
dm8tbr	moaning	08:00
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Corsac	well, I already re-created the account and it obviously failed	08:06
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dm8tbr	Corsac: hm, that sucks...	08:10
* dm8tbr wonders if that will be a 'popular' pr1.1 bug		08:10
djszapi	there are no bugs, never =)	08:10
iekku	whaat?	08:12
jonni	Corsac: if your device asks for account passwords everytime, then your OTA updated corrupted /home/user/.signon, fixable by rm -rf /home/user/.signon and recreating accounts	08:17
ieatlint	yeah, that's a new security feature, not a bug	08:17
jonni	or actually that is not the fix... was just reading bugzilla....	08:20
dm8tbr	jonni: which bz?	08:22
jonni	Corsac: as root, rm `apscli -s signon-private:Se -lu`	08:23
jonni	dm8tbr: projects.maemo.org	08:23
dm8tbr	I'm not sure that will help reliably	08:23
jonni	dm8tbr: 277832	08:23
dm8tbr	ah, that's that restricted access thing :)	08:24
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jonni	anyways if you happen to manage get corruption, options are full flash with 1.1gb bin files, rm magic, or wait for PR1.2 :)	08:26
dm8tbr	jonni: I think restoring from backup might actually also work, haven't tried recently though	08:28
jonni	dm8tbr: oh yes, that might also work, luckily I've never had to use backups myself	08:30
dm8tbr	I was testing moslo a few times, had to :)	08:30
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mece	hi, does anyone here use an ovi.com email account?	10:32
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DocScrutinizer	err, isn't that discontinued since quite some time?	10:36
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w00t	no	10:36
DocScrutinizer	I got a yahoo account, if that helps	10:37
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DocScrutinizer	and mail.ovi.com kills my konqueror (like a numbor of other nokia websites does)	10:41
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DocScrutinizer	buffer overflow exploits usually do cause browser segfaults on mere visiting of a website	10:43
DocScrutinizer	so I wonder...	10:43
mece	DocScrutinizer, it forwards to yahoo mail. anyway I really like the email adress I have there. Super short and nice, and I use it for many things. Currently they've fucked up the webmail for me so I can't log in, but I can use imap or pop so I still use it.	10:44
RST38h	Samsung signs up PowerVR SGX MP GPUs for future devices, keeps its options open	10:44
RST38h	(and everyone thought PVR was dead)	10:44
mece	anyway what I wanted to know was if you can use ovi/yahoo mail with mfe	10:44
mece	RST38h, don't we have powervr on n9?	10:45
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dm8tbr	mece: yes omap3 has PVR/SGX	11:11
dm8tbr	mece: if it speaks imap or pop it should work, right?	11:12
mece	dm8tbr, hmm mfe != imap or pop tho.	11:13
dm8tbr	mece: oh so you really meant MFE and not fenix...	11:13
dm8tbr	why would they speak exchange?	11:14
DocScrutinizer	cough	11:14
hiemanshu	Yahoo doesn't have MfE at all	11:14
mece	ok	11:14
hiemanshu	mece: you can forward it to gmail, and use MfE with that	11:14
mece	hiemanshu, can you?	11:14
mece	hiemanshu, how?	11:15
hiemanshu	I have MfE with gmail for ages now	11:15
mece	hiemanshu, I have mfe with gmail, I meant how can i forward it	11:15
hiemanshu	mece: isnt there an option for yahoo to do it	11:15
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o hiemanshu		11:16
rantom	So I've been partly absent for a while	11:16
DocScrutinizer	I'd not be surprised. Dunno what's worse, yahoo or gmail	11:16
mece	hiemanshu, no idea. I can't get into my account on the web so unfortunately I can't test that atm. well I'll just stick to imap	11:16
rantom	Does the pr 1.1 flasher work as it should?	11:16
*** hiemanshu changes topic to "A place for harmattan device and development discussions \| PR 1.1 : http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ \| Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ \| http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page \| logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ \| UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73. \| Customers help customers on #N9, hurry and you're the senior member"		11:16
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hiemanshu	rantom: yup it does	11:16
rantom	hiemanshu: ok, ty	11:16
hiemanshu	mece: you cant login to yahoo via web? thats odd	11:17
mece	DocScrutinizer, depends on what way you mean. Yahoo is worse because it sucks balls, google is worse because it's evil(er)	11:17
rantom	Just confirming that I can restore the device to Harmattan from Nemo	11:17
hiemanshu	usually with yahoo everything can stop but wep doesn't	11:17
hiemanshu	rantom: yup	11:17
mece	hiemanshu, I've emailed nok support about it, there's some fuckup with the merge	11:17
DocScrutinizer	yahoo is evil a s well	11:17
rantom	good	11:17
mece	DocScrutinizer, yeah but in a globally meaningless way	11:17
hiemanshu	DocScrutinizer: everything not run by us is evil to us :P	11:18
mece	hiemanshu, they called me yesterday and we went through all sorts of stuff to check what the problem was. Determined that there is some issue with the merge which they are now investigating. Either way, imap works so I can still use the email	11:19
mece	hiemanshu, and my nok account works. Only the webmail is borkened. I get an infinite loop at yahoo's "verify your password" page.	11:19
hiemanshu	Interesting	11:20
DocScrutinizer	mece: this problem is like 3 months old now	11:20
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hiemanshu	sad part about yahoo is that we are a business costumer and we still cant get MfE or IMAP only POP3, and I get all this with gmail for free	11:21
DocScrutinizer	and it's quite similar to general nokia fuckup at SSO	11:21
hiemanshu	anyways I am off, going to lunch and then rest, have a day off today	11:22
nibbler	hiemanshu: "for free". sure. https://nibbler.de/attic/forfree.jpg	11:22
mece	DocScrutinizer, but afaik it's not like this for everyone. For me the problem is 3 weeks old.	11:23
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mece	have you noticed that google is closing a lot of apis these days btw?	11:23
DocScrutinizer	not that I ever look into google's APIs	11:24
DocScrutinizer	(not for everyone) yeah, seems random	11:25
mece	well i used translation api, but that's now closed, and images api is closing	11:25
DocScrutinizer	often related to complete mindfscked cookie management	11:25
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DocScrutinizer	by them	11:25
DocScrutinizer	I mean sending cookies with exiry date like "1969-11-30 14:00" -- WTF?!	11:26
mece	DocScrutinizer, huh? Never saw anything like that in api's I've used.	11:26
DocScrutinizer	their session-end cookie OTOH seems indestructible at all	11:27
DocScrutinizer	(Nokia ^^^)	11:27
mece	aah yes. perhaps	11:27
DocScrutinizer	(SSO, meego, yahoo mail, ovi)	11:27
zN9	yahoo mail is depraceted	11:28
DocScrutinizer	indeed :-P	11:28
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DocScrutinizer	as is google shit	11:29
zN9	google is easy to use and nice	11:29
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DocScrutinizer	yeah sure \o/ all hail to google and their policy to even scan your email for relevant terms	11:30
nid0	im happy with my hotmail account, even if it makes me severely uncool.	11:30
ZogG_N9	that is shitty but i think everyone does it	11:30
ZogG_N9	hotmail is prehistory, it has shity too complicated ui	11:32
DocScrutinizer	and no, for sure there's nothing bad in googles nasty browser bar indexing all your files on your PC and sending the results to google. Also nothing bad in them keeping record of all your google search queries, and I'd suggest using 8.8.4.4 for DNS server so you won't confuse google customer profiling with visiting webpages they don't notice you to	11:32
nid0	I dont remember the last time I used hotmail's web ui so who cares :>	11:32
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DocScrutinizer	ooh I forgot, please use google's document editing crap, so they even better know what you're doing - you know the indexing isn't that comprehensive to get an idea of what's going on at your side	11:36
DocScrutinizer	use googles calendar as well, to organize all appointments and tasks in your company	11:37
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DocScrutinizer	use google's supl server so they don'T get inaccurat edata of your locations in their profile of you	11:38
mece	DocScrutinizer, don't forget G+	11:38
DocScrutinizer	:nod:	11:38
Hq`	I wear a tin foil hat so I'm immune to all that	11:38
DocScrutinizer	I just wonder how amazon and fleabay fit in - obviously google fails epically on that topic yet	11:39
DocScrutinizer	well, unless of course you get order confrimations etc via mail X-P	11:39
DocScrutinizer	paypal is a bit nasty - - for google big brother	11:40
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mece	DocScrutinizer, that is really what bothers me the most with google. The integration of all the things. I really like the search engine and the email is fast and nice, but the fact that they read my emails and alter my search results accordingly. That is fucked up.	11:41
mece	I don't use that other g stuff	11:41
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Venemo	good morning	12:07
Venemo	MohammadAG, ping	12:07
DocScrutinizer	morning	12:07
mece	Venemo, 0/	12:08
Venemo	hey mece & DocScrutinizer	12:09
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joppu	Venemo: pong	12:14
Venemo	joppu, good morning :)	12:15
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Venemo	joppu, I was thinking of you when I saw this: http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Blogs/blog/nokia-developer-news/2011/11/10/enter-the-nokia-icon-competition	12:16
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joppu	But I don't have an app myself :P	12:19
Venemo	joppu, I was thinking of entering my app to the competition. but since the icon is actually yours, I would feel bad about it if I claimed the prize for myself. after all, the icon is your work :)	12:20
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joppu	well, I was thinking I might do some refinements, a background for the squicle wouldn't hurt	12:23
joppu	as per the original icon	12:23
Venemo	I'll reboot, will be back in a few minutes	12:24
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DocScrutinizer	uhuh	12:28
gri	http://www.annoyedrodents.com/ - whahaha, the quotes on bottom right are the best of the site :)	12:28
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joppu	nerokasta	12:33
joppu	*genius	12:33
joppu	I mistook the channel D:	12:34
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Venemo	hi again	12:37
Kleggas	oh, rodents	12:41
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Venemo	so joppu, what do you think of this icon competition?	12:42
matrixx	my themechanger was rejected in ovi qa :(	12:43
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matrixx	reason was: "harmattan doesn't support themes" :D	12:43
dm8tbr	matrixx: :(	12:43
matrixx	I'm going to learn to use obs	12:43
dm8tbr	\o/	12:43
matrixx	and I'll put it in cobs :)	12:43
dm8tbr	matrixx: put it in apps.formeego.org (through COBS)	12:44
matrixx	they can keep their tunkki	12:44
matrixx	yeah :)	12:44
X-Fade	matrixx: Ping me when you need help.	12:44
dm8tbr	that will be available for N9 (or is it already?)	12:44
joppu	Venemo: don't you have a N9 already or what was the prize for the competition?	12:44
X-Fade	dm8tbr: The client is available on the website now.	12:44
dm8tbr	ah, great, have to test it later :)	12:44
X-Fade	Don't want to advertise it all out yet as I really would like to test the developer submit part first.	12:45
Venemo	joppu, I "only" have N950, no N9 here	12:45
matrixx	X-Fade: yes, first I need an obs account :)	12:45
matrixx	matrixx is my nick in meego.org	12:45
X-Fade	So if anyone is interested in getting his app in Apps, I will hold your hand :)	12:45
X-Fade	matrixx: let me enable your account.	12:46
matrixx	X-Fade: thanks	12:46
X-Fade	matrixx: Done	12:46
joppu	Venemo: so you were figuring out that you could use my icon and claim to prize to yourself in the case we'd won?	12:47
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matrixx	X-Fade: that was quick, thanks :)	12:47
joppu	matrixx: what's the custom theme stucture, you'd want some themes for your theme changer after all, don't you?	12:47
matrixx	joppu: yes, wait a sec	12:47
matrixx	http://leimu.drupalgardens.com/content/themechanger	12:48
matrixx	there's instructions how to do theme	12:48
Venemo	joppu, here's what I thought. I enter my app(s) with your icons to this competition. if we win an N9 and you think you could use that N9, you can have it. (after all, it's your icons.) if we win a "promotions on the greater Nokia Developer community" (whatever that is), and it is of use to me, then I'll have it. If we don't win anything, well, it's still fun. :)	12:49
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joppu	Venemo: sounds good to me	12:51
ZogG	X-Fade, ping	12:51
X-Fade	ZogG: yes? :)	12:51
Venemo	joppu, I hoped you would find this fair :)	12:52
ZogG	X-Fade first of all howdy? =)	12:52
ZogG	Venemo, i need you too btw =)	12:52
X-Fade	ZogG: Still good.	12:52
X-Fade	:)	12:52
Venemo	hey ZogG, what's up?	12:52
ZogG	Venemo, can you build irc chatter with recconct till new irc come out =)	12:52
ZogG	Venemo good, you? i would bug you about few things, wanna start coding something =)	12:53
ZogG	X-Fade, about repos and app client	12:53
Venemo	ZogG, can't build that package right now (on Windows, no Qt SDK installed here), but ping me about this tomorrow	12:53
Venemo	ZogG, sure, feel free to ask on this channel. If I can't answer, someone else surely will be able to :)	12:54
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X-Fade	ZogG: yes?	12:54
ZogG	X-Fade, as i understand formeego is the only one aviable, but would it be optional to add more repos or it would containt apps.meego.com repos?	12:54
X-Fade	ZogG: What are you trying to do?	12:54
Venemo	joppu, seems that the competition begins at 14 november, at least there's no entry link right now.	12:54
ZogG	i just didn't add any repos as i don't want to install apps just from names of package file =)	12:55
Hq`	matrixx: why did they reject it?	12:55
X-Fade	ZogG: Well the client will add the proper repo and you can select apps from the site or from the client and install them.	12:55
ZogG	X-Fade, i want to add repos, but don't want to have package manager as well	12:56
ZogG	X-Fade there are 4 aps there =)	12:56
joppu	Venemo: on the wiki page, there's an email address to mail the entry to	12:56
X-Fade	ZogG: Well yes, you need to start somewhere ;)	12:56
Venemo	joppu, correct, but it says: "You submission must arrive in our inbox between November 14 and Nov 30 (GMT). "	12:56
X-Fade	ZogG: But I don't get your problem? You just want to use apt-get?	12:56
ZogG	X-Fade, so it makes it only for site manager? coz i thought more of normal maanger not related to any package	12:57
ZogG	to any site*	12:57
matrixx	Hq`: it's because "Themes are not supported on MeeGo N9 platform"	12:57
matrixx	funny isn't it :)	12:57
Hq`	oh...	12:57
matrixx	I made some work to write down the instructions to do custom themes	12:57
matrixx	and then provided the changer which uses code from widgetsgallery	12:58
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ZogG	X-Fade, but idea is to get package manager like synaptic or n900 manager	12:58
X-Fade	ZogG: You need explain yourself better as I don't get what you are trying to do?	12:58
matrixx	and still, themes are not supported :D	12:58
Hq`	:)	12:58
Hq`	or :( actually	12:58
ZogG	i myself use gentoo with comand line only portage, but it has nice descriptions and easy to navigate not like apt-get and as well there are sites that have package descriptions	12:58
X-Fade	ZogG: Ah, no that it is not. It it is a 'store' client, it fetches the info from Apps only.	12:59
matrixx	anyway they can keep their tunkki, we have apps.formeego.org :)	12:59
Venemo	joppu, you have time until then to make sure that the icon is eligible, eg. it fits the rules and everything	12:59
ZogG	X-Fade, any plans to make normal package manager based on client	12:59
ZogG	?	12:59
X-Fade	ZogG: No, I don't see the point.	12:59
ZogG	why not? if you'll have few repos	13:00
ZogG	and there are packages you don't have idea about..	13:00
X-Fade	Well it would be good if the community invests it's efforts in creating one good one.	13:00
ZogG	X-Fade btw it has to use pkgmngr and not apt-get straight right?	13:00
X-Fade	ZogG: It installs through the internal package manager, which just uses apt-get.	13:01
ZogG	X-Fade i can start one, but i'm not a really coder and not good with gui and desinging though i bet wazd would help on this one with UI	13:01
X-Fade	ZogG: It gets all info/metadata from an OCS interface.	13:01
ZogG	X-Fade, does repos support OCS as well?	13:02
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X-Fade	ZogG: Really, it would be better to invest that energy to make sure people submit their apps to Apps?	13:02
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ZogG	i see other solution, but i never mantained or made repos, so maybe there are simplier solutions	13:02
X-Fade	Many repos is always a mess.	13:02
ZogG	X-Fade, i know for sure a lot of people would use their repos only for them, but they wouldnt mind to share them. so they wouldn't submit to formeego =)	13:03
X-Fade	You should try to keep the number as low as possible, so you don't get nasty dependency conflicts.	13:03
X-Fade	And remember that other repos won't have an aegis policy.	13:03
ZogG	X-Fade, i know, but if you have manager it's good actually, coz no need to sync everything and keep everything in one place	13:03
X-Fade	And we will.	13:04
ZogG	aegis policy is mess	13:04
ZogG	i need to understand how it works at all	13:04
X-Fade	ZogG: Apps in Apps will always be updated automatically through the package manager system. Not like ovi where you need to check yourself.	13:04
X-Fade	Basically with Apps people don't need to enable dev mode to install packages.	13:05
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ZogG	i thought to add /Description /Screenshots and /changelog dirs to repo, where you keep extra info for manager like screenshots and changelog as e.g. for for-bar-2.3 would have for-bar-2.3-screenshot-1.png	13:06
ZogG	or foo-bar-screeshot if it's not per version	13:06
X-Fade	ZogG: We all fetch those from OBS directly.	13:06
ZogG	same with changelogs	13:06
X-Fade	ZogG: And obs is versioned.	13:06
ZogG	X-Fade, but would you able to make one for all repos?	13:06
X-Fade	Also, when SDK updates, OBS will rebuild and make sure that all apps still build.	13:07
ZogG	it's nice	13:07
ZogG	the question if i make my own repo can i connect it to yours OBS?	13:07
X-Fade	If you create a home project in OBS and set it up to compile against the SDK there, it will alway be compatible and in sync.	13:08
Hq`	one suggestion for improvement of the client: make it possible to just show apps from all categories without having to go through the categories individually	13:08
X-Fade	This will create your own repo.	13:08
X-Fade	And if you then want to share your app with a larger audience, you can just do a submit request to MeeGo:1.2:Harmattan:Apps:Testing and you are done.	13:09
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, but again it forces me to work thru ur obs and it wouldnt be really my private repo	13:10
X-Fade	You have to understand that adding repos is hard, so when you do your own thing, you will have 10s of users.	13:10
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: But OBS is easy?	13:10
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Just dpkg-buildpackage -S and upload the files?	13:10
ZogG_N9	my idea is to make repo and if someone wsnts he would be able to easily add it to manager	13:10
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Yeah, but that think a bit further.	13:11
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: What are you trying to do?	13:11
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Dump packages somewhere and don't care?	13:11
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ZogG_N9	btw its an example as i wouldnt make my repo but as i know from maemo community making ports and packages	13:12
ZogG_N9	people making ports and packages ob their own repos	13:12
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: You need to think about for personal use and for a greater audience.	13:13
ZogG_N9	and sometimes they have good stuff there	13:13
X-Fade	These pump and dump repos tend to go stale.	13:13
X-Fade	And the community ends up with 100s of broken repos all over the place, conflicting with each other.	13:13
ZogG_N9	agreed but i just know that noone will use same place	13:14
X-Fade	For community's sake, you need to see if you can put effort into centralizing.	13:14
X-Fade	Well, this is where everyone can help.	13:14
ZogG_N9	i cant do anythink about it and i assume my packages i would upload for your obs or rzr repo	13:14
X-Fade	You need to think in solutions, not in problems ;)	13:15
ZogG_N9	btw would rzr repo be supported?	13:15
X-Fade	Those can be pushed into the central repo with a few mouse clicks.	13:15
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, no solution, cant force anyone to use obs	13:15
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Why not?	13:16
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, but who would push them?	13:18
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: You make it seem like it is a bad thing :)	13:18
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, e.g. ruskie has few good things in his repo so i asked him to push it to main maemos	13:18
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: http://blog.qt.nokia.com/2011/01/21/qt-creator-build-service-plug-in/	13:18
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ZogG_N9	he requested permission to do it and never got approved	13:18
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: That is why now we got everything automated.	13:18
ZogG_N9	so he pmed someine and got no solutions so he kept using his repo	13:18
ZogG_N9	coz in linux communities most apps are developed for perdonal use, but are avilable for others	13:18
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: So no blocking on people who are not available of busy.	13:18
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Yes, but we as a community need to try to be better than that, really.	13:19
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, but than no check for viruses?	13:19
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: There is the community QA process.	13:19
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, i agree but i talk to you sbout current situation and not perfect one	13:20
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Really, try out what we have created now. And comment on things that can get better.	13:20
ZogG_N9	sorry for mistypes n9 keyboard is not like n900 =(	13:20
ZogG_N9	X-Fade, for now i'm going to try start codung sonething before i would be able to use your obs, but as far as i see rzr repo has dousen apps and your site only 4	13:22
ZogG_N9	coding* something* douzens*	13:23
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: Well yes, those are the apps we tested with :)	13:23
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ZogG_N9	X-Fade, so maybe poring rzr repo to obs would be nice begining and about client i think you should make only sort by name/date/author and add categories as selection that by default it would be all	13:26
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: It is already.	13:26
ZogG_N9	yeah except you dont have all =)	13:27
X-Fade	ZogG_N9: They already use cobs.	13:27
ZogG	cobs?	13:27
X-Fade	community obs	13:27
ZogG	but how can i see them in client?	13:28
X-Fade	It doesn't list them.	13:28
ZogG	btw anyone know if it's possible to make any song as ringtone coz i tried and it says i have no context whilei have music uploaded and player use it	13:29
ZogG	X-Fade, wy not?	13:29
X-Fade	ZogG: Like I say, because they aren't pushed yet.	13:29
ZogG	yes, and i wonder why not =)	13:30
X-Fade	As we are still testing.	13:30
ZogG	maybe to testing at elast	13:30
ZogG	but youn have testing there as well	13:30
ZogG	i unabled it	13:30
ZogG	enabled*	13:30
X-Fade	That is what we started this conversation with, you remember? :)	13:30
ZogG	i probably lost you, didn't fully wake up	13:31
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ZogG_N9	ok, added nick to account =)	13:37
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* mece is installing community client. excited		13:38
nid0	hm	13:38
nid0	so nokia do make a uk spec n9	13:38
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deram	is there any way to hide swype vkbd in terminal?	13:39
Hq`	maybe it be possible to get the community client to ovi store ;)	13:40
deram	like there is a way with normal vkbd (flick down)	13:40
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xarcass	deram: try gesture from swipe button to the backspace	13:40
xarcass	*swype	13:41
deram	nothing	13:41
mece	deram, slide in normal keyboard, swipe down	13:41
X-Fade	Hq`: That is something we're looking at indeed.	13:41
deram	mece: yep. that is something I'd like to avoid	13:42
deram	ok.. this could be fixable in terminal app, as with store, just touching non-editable part of screen hides swype	13:43
deram	(tried with store search page, as its navigation is left under vkbd)	13:44
xarcass	deram: "To easily hide the keyboard, just Swype from the Swype key to the backspace key" - that's from swipe's docs	13:44
deram	xarcass: does not work with terminal	13:44
deram	and not on that store search page	13:45
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deram	but just found a nice page on swype. gesture swype-key to +!= key	13:46
deram	there is arrows and pageup/down, etc	13:46
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mece	deram, have you tried that custom xterm keyboard?	13:50
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mece1	I'm very impressed with the whole community apps end user experience!	13:53
X-Fade	mece1: We're still working on the client.	13:54
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X-Fade	mece1: But it is starting to come together.	13:54
X-Fade	mece_: Personally I can't help spinning the screenshots ;)	13:55
mece_	works very well. Is there a bugtracker for client btw?	13:55
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mece_	or status or such. I guess the bugs I've found so far are known..	13:56
mece_	actually the only bug so far is that the "launch" button doesn't work	13:56
ZogG	mece_, hey	13:57
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ZogG	lardman\|laptop hoi	13:57
mece_	ZogG, o/	13:57
ZogG	sup	13:58
ZogG	X-Fade, one more thing	13:58
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X-Fade	mece_: https://bugs.meego.com/enter_bug.cgi?product=Community%20Apps	14:00
X-Fade	mece_: But yes, the launch button doesn't work. That is known, waiting implementation :)	14:00
ZogG	what launch button? it worked for me, it created 2 icons one for app and gree one, after reinstall grenn one disapeared	14:01
X-Fade	ZogG: Inside that client.	14:02
mece_	where's the guid to publish stuff to afm (I can't think of a good name, but afm is suitable imo (as in apps for meego))	14:02
X-Fade	mece_: guid?	14:02
ZogG	guide?	14:02
mece_	guide	14:02
mece_	sorry	14:02
ZogG	mece_, not acceptable =)	14:03
X-Fade	mece_: http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_Apps/Submit	14:03
ZogG	X-Fade, i would propose what i proposed for maemo, and it was not done, but lardman did want to help with this as well	14:03
* mece_ flogs himself with a rubber chicken for being such an idiot and spelling "guide" wrong.		14:03
mece_	X-Fade, thank you	14:03
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X-Fade	mece_: guid is something we use a lot too ;) So that is why I was confused ;)	14:04
ZogG	to make implantation with mbarcode and your client, if i do browse site from Pc and want to install i should use mbarcode, think it's good idea	14:04
mece_	X-Fade, yeah I know :)	14:04
ZogG	i don't waht is guid	14:04
X-Fade	ZogG: You mean adding a barcode to the site?	14:05
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mece_	ZogG, Globally unique identifier	14:05
deram	mece_: which custom kyboard?	14:05
mece_	deram, lemme look it up. 'twas pretty interesting. I haven't got an N9 so I didn't try it.	14:05
ZogG	X-Fade yes	14:05
ZogG	X-Fade, qr codes for apps	14:06
X-Fade	ZogG: We could do that.	14:06
ZogG	autogenerated by site	14:06
X-Fade	ZogG: That could be an interesting thing to do.	14:06
ZogG	and than ask lardman to add it to barcode app	14:06
X-Fade	ZogG: Although when you are on device already, you might as well click on the link?	14:06
ZogG	X-Fade, the way android market works	14:07
X-Fade	ZogG: But yeah, I think that can be done relatively easily.	14:07
ZogG	X-Fade, yeah but i love using Pc to browse at home and would like to transfer link to n9	14:07
X-Fade	ZogG: We just need to agree on what we should encode in the qr.	14:07
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X-Fade	ZogG: Something like apps://reponame/packagename	14:08
* lardman is happy to do that		14:08
ZogG	X-Fade, or page to app in way like apps://number so barcode would open client with app id number or jsut normal url that mbarcode would see "apps.formeego.com" on it and send it to client	14:08
X-Fade	ZogG: Yeah, we have app id too.	14:09
lardman	in fact there is already a partial implementation of that in the code, just disabled as we lack any users	14:09
mece_	here's that custom terminal keyboard: http://hqh.unlink.org/harmattan/	14:09
ZogG	X-Fade i think it should open in client and than install from client	14:09
mece_	deram, ^^	14:09
ZogG	lardman, btw didn't get your mbarcode for n9 yet, loved it on n900 =*	14:10
X-Fade	ZogG: Yeah, we probably need to setup a dbus handler for it.	14:10
ZogG	lardman, byut why it's called lite? nopt ported everything or gonna add payed version? =)	14:10
lardman	ZogG: Sorry have been tied up trying to get Nemo to boot on my Tab, will package it up this weekend	14:10
mece_	ZogG, X-Fade, you can just add that suse something mime type to the .desktop file of the client and it would launch it with client from browser. As long as the client supports that	14:10
lardman	and test a few more things	14:10
X-Fade	mece_: That already works :)	14:10
ZogG	X-Fade, why would we? just api for client to recive that kinda url so client can send them to it	14:10
X-Fade	ZogG: Ah, we already have .ymp file links. This is like the old install file on maemo 5.	14:11
ZogG	lardman, Nemo? don't make me jealous, what tab you have? btw do you have twitter?	14:11
mece_	ZogG, so why not just point the url directly to the ymp file?	14:11
mece_	lardman, how's that swipe thing in nemo these days?	14:12
ZogG	okay, i don't know what is ymp =)	14:12
lardman	mece_: I've not got a UI up yet so no idea ;)	14:12
X-Fade	We have a one-click-install handler already.	14:12
ZogG	i wanted hp touchpad so much =)	14:12
X-Fade	Although it is 2 clicks now :)	14:12
DocScrutinizer	X-Fade: you found out why your .desktop icon didn't hide?	14:12
ZogG	to put funtoo and mer on it )	14:12
mece_	ZogG, like a .install file: this: http://apps.formeego.com/mgd:attachment/9a03fc2e093c11e18f53d944a1d75f2b5f2b/foreveralone_install.ymp	14:12
X-Fade	Because of harmattan's transfer manager.	14:12
deram	mece_: yeah... have tried it... won't work for me...	14:13
mece_	crudbuckets! I need to log out log in or something. I've lost my remote profile on this computer. How inconvenient.	14:13
X-Fade	And I haven't been able to find out if we can bypass the transfer manager somehow.	14:13
deram	and by me, I mean me.. app works fine on device	14:13
ZogG	mece_, it's messed up? coz i feel yum in ymp, coz meego was desinged for rpm?	14:13
mece_	deram, kk	14:13
lardman	could use a different uri but still point to the .ymp file, then mbarcode can point the app manager at it to avoid the download manager	14:13
mece_	ZogG, works fine either way with the client.	14:14
ZogG	that sounds good =)_	14:14
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ZogG	lardman, so what tab you got?	14:15
lardman	old 7" one	14:15
lardman	argh, I hate systemd, no way to debug the bloody thing, grr	14:16
ZogG	lardman, can you link me? i want to buy one cheap for mer tests =)	14:16
lardman	zogG: I paid full whack	14:16
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lardman	oh I see, no idea whether you can get those still	14:16
ZogG	lardman, just read today about it instead of init(8) in fedore, have no clue what is it thoguh =)	14:16
lardman	I'd probably go for a tegra as they seem to have decent support	14:16
lardman	hummingbird is a pita	14:17
ZogG	hummingbird is an model? or you like birds? =)	14:17
lardman	is a SoC like OMAP	14:17
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ZogG	X-Fade, don't mind russian, but this is an idea - http://habrahabr.ru/blogs/android/132352/	14:18
DocScrutinizer	lardman: systemd is poettering	14:18
ZogG	DocScrutinizer, do you ever sleep?	14:18
lardman	DocScrutinizer: yeah	14:18
DocScrutinizer	bots never sleep	14:18
ZogG	DocScrutinizer that is my point	14:18
DocScrutinizer	~poettering	14:19
infobot	'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''	14:19
lardman	seems like it might be quite nice, but it's not particularly easy to get anything to run afaict, and if you can't get any comms up, nor can you log anything to file, it's hard to see what's happening	14:19
* lardman has only one thing left to try - boot into single user mode and see if he can login somehow		14:20
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ZogG	Hq`, hey, what is thel ink for your terminal? btw would you like to add dim out option for keyboard so i can set it to time i want?	14:21
z720	anybody know possible to install vpn client in N9	14:22
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medri	had anyone troubles using wifi? with N9	14:23
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* DocScrutinizer links N9 to WiFi and hits "update"		14:32
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medri	i am at the current update	14:33
SpeedEvil	Good luck.	14:33
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mece_	hey btw fmtx on N9. Any chance?	14:34
* DocScrutinizer fetches the huge sledgehammer for adjusting DLINK DR-615 -> "can not get IP"		14:34
mece_	DocScrutinizer, going low level I see :D	14:35
alterego	Ooo, Qt SDK 1.1.4	14:35
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medri	i have a AVM FritzBox	14:36
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RST38h	Doc: Smite it with the power of Thor!	14:39
ZogG	transmission	14:39
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jabis	soo I herd... wait I didn't	14:46
Hq`	ZogG: http://hqh.unlink.org/harmattan/ and you can already adjust the delay from .config/FingerTerm/settings.ini	14:47
jabis	tried fingerterm - hated it	14:47
ZogG	Hq` thanks man, googled it already =)	14:47
ZogG	jabis, hated you =)	14:48
jabis	:D	14:48
ZogG	actually it's nice only delay is too short	14:48
ZogG	~jabis	14:48
infobot	jabis has lost them titties in pursuit of snatch - eventhough still quite awesome, no=	14:48
jabis	:P	14:48
ZogG	Hq`, don't mind him. nice app	14:48
jabis	actually I didn't hate it - just after some conversation on where it'll go x)	14:48
jabis	Hq, nice app - tho has it's shortcomings :)	14:49
ZogG	Checking for at least 9 gibibytes disk space at "/var/tmp/portage/tmp6inJ3z/portage/app-office/libreoffice-3.4.4.2-r1/temp damn!!!!!	14:49
jabis	I can imagine that it'll only get better	14:49
ZogG	wtf	14:49
Hq`	:)	14:49
Hq`	sure it's not perfect	14:49
Hq`	(for everyone)	14:49
ZogG	jabis pull your tongue out of his a$$	14:50
ZogG	=)	14:50
ZogG	it's betetr than standart terminal anyway =)	14:50
jabis	lol - nothing suits you today x)	14:50
ZogG	jabis i told ya, hate you =)	14:50
ZogG	jabis, i have bad news	14:50
jabis	shoot x)	14:51
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jabis	ZogG: did I accidentally your whole N9, or why haters gonna hate? x)	14:51
ZogG	as we know DocScrutinizer is a bot, but i think he is trying to control all the bots, so he would try to conquer internets, we are DOOMED	14:51
DocScrutinizer	~attacl ZogG	14:52
DocScrutinizer	~attack ZogG	14:52
* infobot grabs a pen, screams like she's possessed, and begins chasing ZogG		14:52
jabis	conquering the internets from irc is an ambitious goal, we should commend him instead	14:52
ZogG	irc is where internets started and it where it would be ended	14:53
ZogG	hate that libreoffice is so huge and you need java for it, hate java	14:54
jabis	your facts are wrong - it wasn't irc per sé - but we Finns take the credit anyhow -.-	14:54
RST38h	Meanwhile: A bloke in the US has been arrested after repeatedly calling the emergency number 911 to complain that his iPhone wasn't working	14:55
ZogG	X-Fade, btw, are notifications for updates planned for client as well?	14:55
RST38h	~lawyers Zogg	14:55
X-Fade	ZogG: That happens already.	14:55
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ZogG	X-Fade \o/	14:55
ZogG	RST38h, zdarovenki bili	14:56
DocScrutinizer	I hate the WPA password textfield IM, it's incredibly annoying the N9 hides my password I type from me while I type it. Goes well together with the crappy vkbd in portrait	14:56
jabis	You should be able to write it blindfolded Doccy	14:56
DocScrutinizer	sore, on any sane kbd I would	14:57
DocScrutinizer	sure	14:57
RST38h	ZogG: I vam	14:57
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RST38h	Hey, Doc, the lawyers attack does not work on the bot!	14:57
E0x_	morning	14:57
jabis	~lawyers itself	14:58
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jabis	~nukes RST38h	14:59
jabis	~nuke RST38h	14:59
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at RST38h ... Bâ¢â¢M!		14:59
ZogG	cyrus_N9 holla	15:00
jabis	well - can't go wrong with a few missiles ^^	15:00
jabis	~lawyer RST38h	15:00
ZogG	RST38h, it doesn't work on me	15:00
jabis	~nuke ZogG	15:00
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at ZogG ... Bâ¢â¢M!		15:00
ZogG	in mama russia the people layer law	15:00
ZogG	jabis, stop being so childish about bot	15:00
cyrus_N9	ZogG, privet)	15:01
jabis	nah - I'm entitled to be childish about the bot	15:01
ZogG	cyrus_N9, tune in man	15:01
RST38h	jabis: You are aware that the both also has other commands, aren't you?	15:01
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RST38h	s/both/bot/	15:01
infobot	RST38h meant: jabis: You are aware that the bot also has other commands, aren't you?	15:01
jabis	RST38h: no U	15:01
jabis	RST38h: I'm fully aware yes x)	15:02
ZogG	that's where all decisions are made. RST38h is the head of harmattan department he decides what we should have on n9 or what we shouldn't =))	15:02
jabis	I just feel like effing around atm - must be my hangover	15:02
ZogG	X-Fade, btw one more thing, but first of all i wanted to ask if it's okay i bug you over irc and not using forum or bugtracker for client?	15:03
jabis	oh - and the joy of fixing my phone over a simple reboot instead a whole reflash -u x)	15:03
X-Fade	ZogG: That is ok for now, until it gets out of hand ;)	15:03
jabis	s/reboot/reboot -u/	15:03
infobot	jabis meant: oh - and the joy of fixing my phone over a simple reboot -u instead a whole reflash -u x)	15:03
jabis	the joys of being right \o/ marvelous	15:04
ZogG	X-Fade, about deprecated and multideps. first one if package is not developed it should be metioned before install it's deprecated and even maybe suggest to newer project if there is	15:04
X-Fade	ZogG: We need to come up with a process for this yes.	15:04
jabis	now if only I could get our ERP problem fix'd I'd have moar tiem on my hands	15:04
vladest	hi	15:05
ZogG	X-Fade, and about multideps, if i want irssi in e.g. and it depends on terminal, can we make that it depends on any terminal? for example if i use fingerterm and not default one	15:05
ZogG	vladest, hola	15:05
vladest	how to update qt components to 1.1 on harmattan?	15:05
vladest	ZogG	15:05
X-Fade	ZogG: What if a package is getting bitrotted and the author moved on?	15:05
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ZogG	X-Fade, it can be calculated like in google code pages if the package wasn't changed for X time it's the warning at first or other options are if author mark as no longer mantained or X+Y time no changes to package	15:07
ZogG	marks*	15:07
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X-Fade	ZogG: I think it would be good to describe all the processes in the wiki. Find issues and come up with ways to solve them.	15:08
ZogG	like 2 options one is automatic for warning and after that deprecated if author marked it or passed double time for example from first warning	15:08
cyrus_N9	hey guys what about zoom while recording video in pr1.1?	15:09
X-Fade	cyrus_N9: Do a step foward?	15:09
ZogG	X-Fade, it can be made on client side and not related to repo it self so no info there untill you want author to mark deprecated thru OBS, still no idea how it works, need to read more about it	15:09
ZogG	trying to convince cyrus_N9 to use IRC more, he more jabber guy.	15:10
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X-Fade	cyrus_N9: Digital zoom is always a bad compromise anyway.	15:11
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ZogG	X-Fade, so no zoom for now? it should be optional anyway doesn't matter how bad it is imo	15:11
ZogG	let the user decide	15:11
X-Fade	ZogG: Don't look at me :)	15:12
cyrus_N9	X-Fade, but sometimes it could be usefull	15:12
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ZogG	cyrus_N9 try to fill a bug	15:13
ZogG	jonni, sup	15:13
cyrus_N9	nice client btw ) i want something like that for xmpp	15:14
jonni	.	15:14
SpeedEvil	Digital zoom is not always a bad compromise. If you don't need the edges of the picture, capturing them can reduce quality for a given filesize.	15:14
jabis	cyrus_N9: isn't there an alternative camera app that handles that, or does my recollection suck yet again	15:15
jabis	camera pro or sth it was	15:15
deram	X-Fade: digital zoom is only bad when resulting image contains more pixels than the sensor has	15:15
X-Fade	deram: True, there is a bit of room still. Although with the size of the sensor, you will see a lot of noise.	15:16
deram	in case of video, there is way more pixels usable for zoom than the video uses	15:16
deram	X-Fade: that is true also	15:16
X-Fade	And having the pixels averaged will remove some of that noise.	15:16
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cyrus_N9	jabis, i didn't see it..	15:16
ZogG	cyrus_N9, there are few photo progs	15:17
ZogG	Venemo, ping	15:18
Venemo	ZogG, pong	15:18
vladest	ok, how to define, which qt component version is installed on device?	15:18
deram	though, generally in video, the spatial average is not so badly needed as in stills, as temporal averaging happens in video compression	15:18
Venemo	btw, does anyone here have the white N9?	15:19
ZogG	Venemo, what cyrus_N9 said	15:21
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Venemo	ZogG, what?	15:22
unreal-	hello	15:22
jabis	motherF****** I managed to slash my finger with a beer can	15:23
ZogG	Venemo, maybe jabber client with irc-chatetr UI?	15:23
jabis	blood everywhere x)	15:23
ZogG	jabis, looooser	15:23
Venemo	ZogG, I'm unfamiliar with jabber, but should anyone make such a client, feel free to use my gui	15:24
jabis	ZogG: meh - look who's talking :P	15:24
dm8tbr	there is native xmpp support in harmattan, why an own app?	15:24
ZogG	cyrus_N9, want to try?	15:24
ZogG	dm8tbr, btw how can i add acout?	15:24
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dm8tbr	ZogG: search the channel logs for mc-tool	15:25
X-Fade	I think you only need to write an account plugin?	15:25
ZogG	dm8tbr, and does it support confs?	15:25
dm8tbr	yes, I _still_ wait for someone to write that :)	15:25
dm8tbr	account-sso is OSS, just the ui bits are closed ffs	15:25
ZogG	dm8tbr, so we can use client with official tolls	15:26
* dm8tbr has no idea what 'confs' and 'tolls' are		15:26
cyrus_N9	dm8tbr, conferences	15:26
cyrus_N9	it is like rooms in irc	15:27
ZogG	tools*	15:27
dm8tbr	yeah, I'm familiar with jabber conferences. just thought he was talking about 'configs' or something	15:27
dm8tbr	does telepathy-gabble support them?	15:27
cyrus_N9	vladest, apt-cache show doesn't work?	15:28
ZogG	no confs for conferences and tolls was mistypo	15:28
dm8tbr	if so then chances are good	15:28
ZogG	for me becaming a man?	15:28
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Venemo	I need to leave now; good afternoon everyone :)	15:39
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medri	does anyone know anything about a google voice plugin or program? really need it	15:48
flux	google voice plugin?	15:51
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medri	yes for makinf calls through google voice	15:53
dm8tbr	medri: doesn't the gtalk plugin support that stuff?	15:54
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medri	dm8tbr: gtalk is for chat only afaik, I need the callback and text functions	15:56
dm8tbr	ic	15:57
medri	it's pretty useful for making free calls with a free sip number	16:00
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dm8tbr	medri: I use sip directly and have hundreds of free minutes to many destinations :)	16:08
medri	but texting is not possible trough sipgate.com	16:09
medri	imho sipgate.com (for free is number) and google voice for callbacks is ptetty good for texting and calling	16:11
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* dm8tbr uses XMPP for messaging, text is low volume so I wouldn't care about complicated solutions		16:17
DocScrutinizer	medri: texting not possible on sipgate?	16:24
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DocScrutinizer	kast time I checked sipgate had support for SMS with even a net API, and also did SIP INFO without problems	16:25
DocScrutinizer	what it doesn't is gateway SIP INFO to SMS	16:26
medri	i tried, but how should I do it from my N9?	16:30
medri	It worked so fwith the google voice plugin for conversations on the N900	16:31
medri	fine	16:31
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ZogG_N9	any mplayer remote control?	16:36
flux	terminal?	16:37
ZogG_N9	flux, any	16:37
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flux	I mean	16:38
flux	ssh host.. mplayer stuff.. your controls are right there in the terminal :)	16:38
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ZogG_N9	its already started from computer	16:38
flux	well, then your only option are regular remote use options, mplayer doesn't really provide a remote control interface once it's started	16:39
flux	maybe there's a vnc client around for n9, no idea..	16:39
ZogG_N9	can i get in playing one coz as far as i know i need to start it	16:39
ZogG_N9	what are regulsr remote use?	16:40
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flux	basically VNC.	16:40
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flux	zogg_n9, try NetView from the store?	16:40
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flux	uh, actually never mind	16:41
flux	it is the other way round	16:41
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dm8tbr	there is a vlc remote control	16:42
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ZogG_N9	dm8tbr, thrre are too but did not succeed to connect	16:43
dm8tbr	worked fine for me	16:43
ZogG_N9	and on pc main player is mplayer	16:43
dm8tbr	you need to enable the legacy http interface in vlc	16:43
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dm8tbr	start mplayer via ssh then	16:44
ZogG_N9	dm8tbr, did that worked from localhost	16:44
ZogG_N9	and mplayer is running already	16:45
dm8tbr	so do I get this right? you have a prestarted mplayer that has NO remote control interface and blame the N9 for not being able to control it?	16:46
ZogG_N9	did i blame!	16:47
ZogG_N9	?	16:47
ZogG_N9	i asked if there is a way, thats all	16:47
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dm8tbr	your whining sounds llike it	16:47
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ZogG_N9	and already asked at mplayer if they have api	16:47
ZogG_N9	dm8tbr, did u get minstruation man?	16:48
ZogG_N9	i just asked, u can easly ignore my questions or ignore me	16:48
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ZogG_N9	there are different members with different levels of knowledge so if u dont like it you are welcome to quit	16:49
ZogG_N9	have a nice day	16:49
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Saz\|Mobile	well that was irritating	16:58
Saz\|Mobile	I had to set up sasl just to connect to feeenode	16:58
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ZogG_N9	why is that?	17:04
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Saz\|Mobile	freenode requires it for tmobile	17:05
Saz\|Mobile	why I have no idea	17:05
ZogG_N9	lol	17:05
Saz\|Mobile	and the perl irssi script for sasl required modules not in harmattan	17:06
Saz\|Mobile	thankfully the debian packages installed fine	17:06
artemma	why do you need irssi for harmattan?	17:07
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Saz\|Mobile	because there is no other irc.client	17:08
artemma	give communi a try ;)	17:08
artemma	https://twitter.com/#!/jpnurmi/status/133306885662183424	17:08
Saz\|Mobile	doubt that it supports sasl	17:08
artemma	I must to warn you though that it looks and works as a normal app	17:08
artemma	though if you are into console and text mode and irssi, communi may be of too much eye candy :)	17:09
* artemma doesn't even know what sasl is		17:09
Saz\|Mobile	ugh, no copy paste or select through terminal	17:09
Saz\|Mobile	thanks for that nokia	17:09
Saz\|Mobile	gonna have to say google it then	17:10
artemma	like copy-paste works well elsewhere :)	17:10
Saz\|Mobile	otherwise i would paste a link	17:10
ZogG_N9	just read about sasl and frenode	17:10
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ZogG_N9	just google for sasl wiki	17:10
ZogG_N9	i use irc-chatter	17:12
DocScrutinizer	TADAAA 40-4 update complete	17:12
DocScrutinizer	only took like 60 min, a bit more maybe cough	17:13
DocScrutinizer	well, it takes some more minutes until it might get responsive again	17:13
dm8tbr	Saz\|Mobile: try fingerterm, has both	17:14
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DocScrutinizer	sigh	17:17
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer, flashed?	17:18
ZogG_N9	or ota?	17:18
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DocScrutinizer	that's always weird fun to watch a device act in slomo on events (like touch screen) that happened literally minutes in the past	17:19
DocScrutinizer	OTA	17:19
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SpeedEvil	'No! I diddn't mean to send that message threatening the life of the president, I was just tapping randomly, and it diddn't react'	17:20
DocScrutinizer	only appstarter though, volume for example is really responsive	17:20
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer, u have german pr right?	17:20
DocScrutinizer	I don't think there's such a thing like a German PR	17:21
ZogG_N9	what number?	17:21
ZogG_N9	i still have no ota =)	17:21
ZogG_N9	005	17:22
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DocScrutinizer	001 iirc	17:23
DocScrutinizer	sorry can't check right now ;-P	17:23
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DocScrutinizer	hah the swipe came thru, I did it like 6 min ago	17:24
DocScrutinizer	sth must be running with terribly high prio and no waits at all - numbercrunching?	17:25
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DocScrutinizer	or does it try to grow a brain and achieve conscious state?	17:26
SpeedEvil	That's one of the things Aegis protects against.	17:27
DocScrutinizer	haha	17:27
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nid0	so, my n9 just showed up finally, apparently its an aussie import and thus no pr1.1 yet, whats the best way atm for getting harmattan to a sensible firmware variant and up to date?	17:29
DocScrutinizer	OK N9 right under the USB is a pretty good magnet, strong enough t pick up screws	17:29
DocScrutinizer	nid0: wait	17:30
DocScrutinizer	DANG I'm temped to shut it down hard	17:30
mgedmin	thrashing due to low memory?	17:31
DocScrutinizer	hah, quim online	17:32
DocScrutinizer	mgedmin: nfc, how would I tell?	17:32
DocScrutinizer	nuff isanuff, 20 min in semi-stale state. Hard shutdown due	17:33
ZogG_N9	reboot	17:34
DocScrutinizer	HAHAHAHA locking it "accidentally" with the powerbutton fixed things	17:34
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SpeedEvil	DocScrutinizer: How else do you think the compass works? It's a big magnet, with a couple of optical encoders.	17:37
SpeedEvil	(not really)	17:37
DocScrutinizer	LOL	17:37
DocScrutinizer	honestly I really wonder how compas can work next to this friggin earpiece transducer	17:38
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SpeedEvil	1/r^3 is a wonderful thing.	17:38
SpeedEvil	Or is it 4.	17:38
SpeedEvil	It's the subtraction of two squares, which must be a cube.	17:38
DocScrutinizer	well, sorry to spoil your hopes, but other end is speaker and exactly same monster magnet mess	17:39
SpeedEvil	They must cancel!	17:39
DocScrutinizer	prolly	17:39
SpeedEvil	Though actually, the zero level is set to the current 'background' radiation.	17:40
DocScrutinizer	I guess they use the speaker magnets to even calibrate the compass' misguidance	17:40
SpeedEvil	The only reason a constant field causes issues is if various bitts of magnetic metal approach it, and disturb the field.	17:40
SpeedEvil	The field generated by the magnets.	17:40
DocScrutinizer	haha start screen with charge icon next to time	17:41
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DocScrutinizer	MEH reboot	17:43
DocScrutinizer	led patterns are really awkward now	17:44
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DocScrutinizer	developer mode list of dev-pkgs fails to scroll when you tap the left 2/3	17:46
DocScrutinizer	you always click any of those pkgs	17:47
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DocScrutinizer	scrolling on right 1/3 where those "installed" "installed" are, works	17:48
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BluesLee	hi, is there a way to get rid of the n9 kbd in some situations?	17:49
mgedmin	you can swipe it down to hide it	17:50
mgedmin	that probably won't work when you've swype enabled	17:50
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BluesLee	mgedmin: thats cool	17:51
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DocScrutinizer	shall I sync with my unknown neighbour's Nokia 5530 XpressMusic, over BT? X-P	17:51
DocScrutinizer	or better with Nokia6300?	17:51
BluesLee	mgedmin: there is an issue with search/swype kbd in qmltube	17:52
BluesLee	mgedmin: but switching to the default kbd is the solution, thanx	17:52
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DocScrutinizer	15 updates, size 666.6MB, KTNXBY	17:58
gri	hmpf, no updates for me :(	17:59
dm8tbr	mgedmin: managed to swipe swype away once or twice, really tricky as it swypes up all swipes into swypes...	18:01
mgedmin	swhat?	18:02
dm8tbr	you can hide swype, it's just tricky	18:02
dm8tbr	you can even swipe the keyboard layouts, including swype, it's also tricky	18:02
mgedmin	with swipe it often matters if you begin the gesture inside the screen or outside of it	18:03
DocScrutinizer	swhy son't sou swype srom swype swo swackswace?	18:03
dm8tbr	ack and with swype in play it's even more tricky	18:03
mgedmin	I noticed that I was unable to swipe out applications when I started a horizontal swipe low enough in the screen, where it intersected my vkb	18:03
mgedmin	this is probably used to switch input methods, if you've more than one ?	18:03
mgedmin	I did swipe swype away a couple of times	18:04
mgedmin	no Lithuanian support in swype	18:04
dm8tbr	artemma: I just noticed, you store the background in /var/tmp - that gets wiped on reboot resulting in black background. probably hard to fix?	18:04
* dm8tbr uses the UK (swype) layout 99% of the time anyway		18:05
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mgedmin	/var/tmp, according to FHS, is a place that's not supposed to be erased on boot	18:05
dm8tbr	the remaining 1% splits between pl, de and fi	18:05
mgedmin	but not a good place for persistent files...	18:06
dm8tbr	mgedmin: the file is transient, but should survive reboots as it's the device lock screen background. which is cycled from time to time	18:06
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* RST38h moos		18:07
DocScrutinizer	ok, at least during dl/update/install this N9 is worse than N810 regarding responsiveness	18:08
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RST38h	Doc: probably also depends on the size of package caches	18:10
RST38h	Doc: N900's HAM has become absolutely useless nowadays, with so many packages in the repos	18:10
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DocScrutinizer	well, I can't even swipe to another screen from this download display	18:11
mgedmin	wow	18:12
mgedmin	something's not right there	18:12
mgedmin	I didn't notice anything like that while I installed those 666 megs of updates	18:12
DocScrutinizer	well, I can, 1 of 5 swipes works, when done slowly and thoroughly	18:12
mgedmin	I did have some fun with messageserver eating 100% cpu until I disabled periodic email checking	18:13
DocScrutinizer	OOH it's just he notorious "c-ts fails when on charger" issue	18:13
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DocScrutinizer	unplugged USB charger, everything smooth again	18:14
DocScrutinizer	AHAAAAA! Related to my "noname" USW wallwart charger	18:15
Sput	hmm. is it possible to change the N9xx theme to "inverted"? I've heard people mention it in the context of energy saving, but also I think the few things that already have a black background (such as the notification screen) look awesome	18:15
DocScrutinizer	USB	18:15
DocScrutinizer	actually branded "LogiLink"	18:16
DocScrutinizer	with a nice 2color LED	18:16
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DocScrutinizer	probably I could send SOS with this crap, if only I plug in a 2m USB cable	18:17
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* DocScrutinizer wonders where his 50+g ferrite beads gone		18:18
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DocScrutinizer	how to switch that friggin green on black in xterm?	18:20
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dm8tbr	context menu, topright	18:21
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DocScrutinizer	nm, found the menu	18:21
DocScrutinizer	thns dm8tbr	18:21
dm8tbr	np	18:21
DocScrutinizer	/home/user/TIMED-BACKUP 672 user users 644	18:24
DocScrutinizer	o.O	18:24
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mgedmin	cat it, it's some text dbus shit	18:32
mgedmin	why oh why doesn't irc let me use different nicks on different channels?	18:32
* mgedmin wants to change it to grumpy_mgedmin, but doesn't want to spam all the channels he's on		18:32
Clint	redesign irc	18:33
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Saz\|Mobile	yeah commumi doesnt do sasl	18:50
Saz\|Mobile	so i cant use it to connect to freenode	18:51
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ZogG	hmm found out there are updates on ovi store for apps i have and no notifications ot in manager not in top panel =(	18:56
X-Fade	ZogG: Like I told you earlier today :)	18:58
X-Fade	ZogG: Because they can't use the cool things apt-get has to offer :)	18:58
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ZogG	X-Fade just tried apt-get update and got error on apps.formeego.com and downloads.maemo.nokia.com/harmattan/005	18:59
ZogG	it makes only more to want to reflash to 001	18:59
X-Fade	ZogG: We don't use apps.formeego.com? It is .org	19:00
ZogG	couldn't verify coz public key unavaliable	19:00
ZogG	still not on pr1.1, can it be related ?	19:00
X-Fade	Yeah, that is just a warning.	19:00
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X-Fade	That will be added to the policy package which will come from nokia.	19:01
ZogG	X-Fade, right it is org =)	19:01
ZogG	stil error	19:02
X-Fade	ZogG: W: or E:	19:02
ZogG	W: but Err on https://donloads.maemo.nokia ./ Packages and E: Some index files failed to download. they have been ignore or old one used instead	19:03
X-Fade	ZogG: Can you paste the real warnings/errors somwhere?	19:04
X-Fade	Without that it is very hard to help you out.	19:04
ZogG	wha is ope-service0?	19:04
ZogG	it upgrades it	19:04
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ZogG_N9	X-Fade, exectlly copy as i wrote	19:14
ZogG_N9	~ping	19:21
infobot	~pong	19:21
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ZogG_N9	timeouts	19:38
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unreal-	Mmmm, twitter integration seems quite flakey	19:44
phako	unreal-: as in?	19:46
unreal-	I add twitter, I see my twitter contacts in Contacts, and then I reboot the phone and all twitter contacts disappear...	19:46
phako	are you online after reboot?	19:46
unreal-	as in "connected to the internet"?	19:46
phako	yes	19:46
unreal-	yes, wifi or 3g	19:46
unreal-	and the twitter Feed is updated	19:47
unreal-	just contacts disappear	19:47
unreal-	I had to use this trick to get it connect to twitter in the first place : http://discussions.europe.nokia.com/t5/Maemo-and-MeeGo-Devices/Nokia-n9-built-in-twitter-app-not-working/m-p/1203359#M28779	19:47
phako	hm, never have seen that.	19:50
phako	twitter contacts is a complex topic due to mostly non-technical reasons	19:50
unreal-	something to do with twitter api?	19:51
phako	no	19:52
phako	non-technical	19:52
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ZogG-laptop	hey	19:54
phako	unreal-: you might want to check http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=79023 and/or comment there	19:54
ZogG-laptop	i used pc suite and it shows update to new pr1.1, should i wait for ota or go for it?	19:55
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ZogG-laptop	hmm	20:02
ZogG-laptop	jonni	20:02
ZogG-laptop	ping	20:02
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Sazpaimon_	just tried to use the windows virtual keyboard via rdesktop on my N9	20:03
Sazpaimon_	oh my god, the keyboard is almost 400 pixels high	20:03
Sazpaimon_	it takes up the entire screen	20:04
unreal-	phako: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1120223&postcount=117	20:04
Sazpaimon_	and it doesnt do letter magnification, so you cant see what letters you are pushing	20:04
Sazpaimon_	there must be an alternative vkb program for windows thats optimized for low res displays	20:04
phako	unreal-: yes?	20:05
unreal-	phako: a bet he rebooted the phone after restoring a backup, et bam, gone again ;)	20:05
unreal-	phako: looks a lot like my problem, don't you think?	20:05
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phako	unreal-: no	20:05
phako	unreal-: I doubt it	20:05
unreal-	after reading again... maybe not	20:06
unreal-	i might have read his post a bit fast	20:06
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matrixx	X-Fade: I created a subproject for my themechanger app on cobs, but now I'm stuck when adding targets	20:16
matrixx	X-Fade: which one I should choose for harmattan?	20:17
mgedmin	is there a vnc client for the n9?	20:17
matrixx	mgedmin: there's netview	20:17
mgedmin	that's the vnc server, I believe	20:18
mgedmin	it lets me view my n9 on a desktop	20:18
mgedmin	I want to view my desktop on the n9	20:18
matrixx	oh it's that way around	20:18
matrixx	I didn't try that out yet	20:18
mgedmin	the n9 screen is higher than my laptop screen, pixel-wise	20:19
mgedmin	and I my vnc (TightVNC) client doesn't support rotation	20:19
mgedmin	so when I launch a landscape-only app on the n9, it doesn't work well	20:20
mgedmin	landscape is the unloved stepsister screen orientation in harmattan	20:20
mgedmin	can't use the Qt Simulator in landscape	20:20
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gabriel9	howds	20:46
gabriel9	why i cant design qml files in qt creator	20:47
gabriel9	?	20:47
gabriel9	i created qt quick app and set Harmattan target	20:47
gabriel9	i see two files: main.qml and Mainpage.qml	20:48
gabriel9	also where do i put my js files in project?	20:48
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mgedmin	I don't think Qt Designer supports QML apps for the N9	20:58
mgedmin	Don't know about JS files; put them in the same subdirectory as QML files perhaps?	20:59
mgedmin	or avoid them altogether and put your JS directly into QML files?	20:59
mgedmin	I'm sort of a noob myself; here's the best I could come up with during the Vienna hackathon: https://github.com/mgedmin/qml-time-tracker	21:00
gabriel9	strange	21:03
gabriel9	how can it not suport qml apps	21:03
gabriel9	i just deployed one	21:03
gabriel9	:)	21:03
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mgedmin	I mean the WYSIWYG GUI designer tool	21:05
mgedmin	I'm new to Qt, and all the names baffle and confuse me	21:05
gabriel9	me to :D	21:06
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gabriel9	i think that i saw that qt creator support qml for harmattan	21:08
gabriel9	but i can't remeber which version	21:08
mgedmin	qt creator definitely supports harmattan, since at least 1.1.2	21:09
mgedmin	from 1.1.4, I believe, harmattan support is no longer in beta	21:09
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nix-cyrus	Is there any global twit-hashtag for new and yummy applications for N9?	21:22
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ZogG	hey	21:24
ZogG	a have a quick question, after update (used pc suite) i do restore and all i see the list of apps i restore maually one by one, anyway to do restore all?	21:25
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gabriel9	ZogG	21:26
gabriel9	ping	21:26
gabriel9	you updated ypur N9 using PcSuite?	21:27
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gabriel9	ZogG ping	21:29
jonni	ZogG: you need to restore one by one, restore all might come in pr1.2	21:29
gabriel9	ok, so i ask now all of you? How to update N9?	21:31
gabriel9	it does not offer any updates	21:31
ZogG	gabriel9, yes	21:31
ZogG	gabriel9 you have 3 options	21:31
gabriel9	tell me :)	21:31
ZogG	1)wait coz update would come to all contries operators and versions in 2 weeks	21:32
ZogG	2)Pc Suite or straight download nokiaupdatesoftware and use it	21:32
ZogG	3)flash	21:32
gabriel9	i buy my from some dealer who bougt it somewhere in EU	21:32
ZogG	i used pcsuite, update went well, though pc suite after reboot said it failed, i think it's just it doesn't know if it succeeded or failed	21:33
gabriel9	hm i tried with nokia software updater and it does not offer update	21:33
gabriel9	strange	21:34
gabriel9	10.2011.34-1.340.01.1_PR_340	21:35
nix-cyrus	btw found some info about video zoom-recording http://foolab.org/node/7895	21:37
nix-cyrus	ZogG pcsuite under win?	21:37
gabriel9	ZogG where did you download pcsuite for N9?	21:43
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DocScrutinizer	tell you, this Nokia account creation wizard is braindamaged. It's asking for a mail-addr - what the F do I know about the domain part of my new nokia account. Or do they think I'd give them mailaddr and password of an existing account at $random_provider?? Anyway neither the helptext nor the manual is any help for that	21:55
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DocScrutinizer	and of course "I agree Nokia will send me tips and offers per email AND SMS" - HAH	21:57
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thp	DocScrutinizer: there's actually a trick to avoid creating a nokia account (like create account, don't have an e-mail address, skip)	22:13
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Sazpaimon__	is there an API example of having a scrollbar where you can only scroll by touching the scrollbar itself and not the actual window	22:19
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Sazpaimon__	basically a behavior of a classic scroll bar	22:21
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ZogG_N9	http://p.twimg.com/Ad_6M-sCIAAzhW9.png	23:14
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ZogG_N9	what can be wrong?	23:14
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ZogG_N9	btw what is this icon? http://p.twimg.com/Ad_2sPmCMAAHUq7.png:med	23:16
mgedmin	why do I see a blank page when I click on those links?	23:17
mgedmin	an image flashes briefly, then disappears	23:17
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nix-cyrus	too many zoggs here, isn't it?))	23:19
mgedmin	works in firefox, though	23:19
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matrixx	X-Fade: now I have my app ready compiled in cobs with the necessary screenshots and such, what do I need to do now to get it in apps.formeego.org? :)	23:21
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ZogG_N9	i dont know =(	23:21
ZogG_N9	DocScrutinizer, ping	23:22
DocScrutinizer	ZogG_N9: pong	23:22
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mosty	anyone have an example harmattan source package that i can look at to see how/where to run aegis-manifest?	23:38
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jonni	mosty: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Harmattan_security_Security_guide_Aegis_manifest_file_generation_tool.html	23:51
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ZogG_N9	damn	23:56
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ZogG_N9	now after reboot icon is green	23:57
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ZogG_N9	can i check what apps i have in launcher and order?	23:58
mosty	jonni, i've tried reading that page a few times, but i think i'm missing something. if i run aegis-manifest . foo inside the directory that my deb package is built from, it returns with no error and there is no file foo created	23:59
ZogG_N9	anyone?	23:59

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