IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-11-08

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artemmajust got news that N9 is on sale in USA02:33
artemmawithout any carrier support though02:33
artemmaRT @tomiahonen: suddenly the #N9 is actually for sale in the USA - but no carrier contracts, no subsidies, costs $690..02:35
ieatlintdistributed to the US, or a US retailer imported a case themselves?02:35
ieatlinti had a good experience here in the states getting a microsd card02:42
ieatlintthey assumed i had an iphone02:43
ieatlintwere then very interested when they saw the n902:43
DocScrutinizermeans they charged you premium :-P02:43
ieatlintwaived the fee :P02:44
ieatlintnormally $20 though02:44
DocScrutinizeranyway seems the concept of SIM isn't really common knowledge in USA. I couldn't say how else you see people using disposable mobile phones in CSI and other TV crap02:46
ieatlintvaries... since LTE uses a SIM, pretty much everyone deals with them now02:47
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DocScrutinizeranyway now I feel like "toldya" once more, why should Nokia forbid selling of N9 in USA? gosh was that a whining when the USA Nokia webshop didn't announce any sales start date, and I always claimed there's bo use in building a phone with octaband or what it was, other than using it in USA with their lunatic carriers and bands02:51
DocScrutinizers/ bo/ no02:51
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DocScrutinizeranother anyway: "no carrier support" sounds to me like US wholesale mentality. "No subsidized devices" is more like it02:55
ieatlintit's not a lunatic carrier issue02:56
ieatlintour carriers are just as retarded as yours02:56
ieatlintthe bands were just used already02:56
DocScrutinizerhell that was a bummer when not even this omniband device supported USA carriers' bands02:56
ieatlinti laugh that the lumia phones don't support all the US bands02:56
ieatlint"oh no, i can't use the latest nokia winphone :("02:57
DocScrutinizerieatlint: not really, running UMTS on a band clearly defined as GSM-only... *erhm*Ü02:57
ieatlintwell, that's ATT02:57
ieatlintthey're just like that02:57
ieatlintmy carrier does 1700/210002:58
DocScrutinizerwhich is all sane for 3G02:58
DocScrutinizerbut don't tell me 850 was "occupied" so they "had to use UMTS on that freq"02:58
ieatlint850 was used for GSM at one point03:00
ieatlintbut they stopped it to reuse it, since it was the only bands they had03:00
DocScrutinizerI *might* accept there were real reasons for 850/1900 in USA (though I don't buy the military story). But with abusing bands for 3G that were 2G worldwide, no no no03:00
ieatlint1900 is still gsm i think03:01
DocScrutinizerwhich is especially insane as 3G cell size is smaller per definitionem, so they better had abused the 1900 band rather than 85003:02
ieatlintsounds like you should visit ATT and teach those guys a lesson about european standardization03:04
ieatlinttell them about metric too03:04
DocScrutinizerLOL about - sends cookies with expiration date 1969-12-31 23:0003:05
DocScrutinizer~lart ATT, with a 0.01AWG branded wire03:06
* infobot pours gasoline all over ATT, with a 0.01AWG branded wire, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze03:06
DocScrutinizerwell, there's a link that leaves nothing to add for a comment03:15
DocScrutinizer States03:16
DocScrutinizercompare e.g. ;-P03:19
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DocScrutinizerthe difference? other than the FCC the germen authorities sold bands nationwide, not per region/district/village03:21
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DocScrutinizerN9: Frequency Bands GSM 1800 GSM 1900 GSM 850 GSM 900 WCDMA Band I (2100) WCDMA Band II (1900) WCDMA Band IV (1700/2100) WCDMA Band V (850) WCDMA Band VIII (900)03:25
Mekhmm, I guess nobody here knows how to flash an image to an n950 that is older than what is currently on it? (i.e. get around the downgrade disallowed security check?)03:25
DocScrutinizerit's mere impossible03:26
DocScrutinizerfor mere mortals03:27
SpeedEvilMany know how.03:28
SpeedEvilWe just lack the certs to do so.03:29
DocScrutinizer51my laptop acts up on ethernet03:30
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DocScrutinizer51rather, the bastards are doing an unscheduled downtime on my DSLAM03:33
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* GeneralAntilles yawns.03:43
DocScrutinizer51moo gan03:43
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GeneralAntillesThe 24 hours of Call of Duty charity event got taken down with a DMCA violation.03:46
GeneralAntillesActivision is such a scumbag company.03:46
DocScrutinizerThat'S what we call "making friends"03:46
DocScrutinizeror even pretty good PR03:47
DocScrutinizerforget friggin charity, you should save all your money to pay for our decoders03:48
DocScrutinizergames actually03:49
* DocScrutinizer wonders when EA sports will take down the champions league03:54
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DocScrutinizersimilarly reasonable claim - "we have a game of that name"03:55
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DocScrutinizer  Regional Availability Global04:05
GeneralAntillesYeah, if they say so.04:05
DocScrutinizerhooray, Nokia website reproducably kills my konqueror04:15
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at thriving entrepreneurship at OWS.04:24
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ieatlinti'll take OWS seriously when they display basic intelligence, and two different people from the movement can give me similar answers as to what they're protesting04:30
GeneralAntillesI think it's just cathartic for most involved.04:33
GeneralAntillesAside from the union assholes.04:33
ieatlinttrue enough04:33
GeneralAntillesI find it funny that they're protesting against crony capitalism and bank bailouts, but seem to be for student loan bailouts.04:33
SpeedEvilin some ways I'd be in favour, for people with real degrees.04:34
GeneralAntillesPeople with real degrees usually don't need it04:34
GeneralAntillesbecause they didn't spend $200k on a degree in Peace Studies.04:34
SpeedEvilSocial work - for someone actually doing low-paid social work say.04:35
GeneralAntillesSee, here's the problem though04:35
GeneralAntillesIncentive matters04:35
SpeedEvilAnd yes, I know.04:35
SpeedEvilWhich is why I said 'in some ways'.04:35
SpeedEvilmoral hazard and all that shizzle.04:35
GeneralAntillesThe unlimited funds available have been a large part of what's driven up the prices of degrees.04:36
SpeedEvilSimilarly with health.04:36
ieatlintthey need to realize they were supposed to pick a viable career path04:36
TronicI've only been following by Google+ posts but it seems pretty clear that they are protesting against corporations (owned by the 1 %) having too much lobbying power, i.e. there being no true democracy. Everything else follows as a consequence of that.04:36
GeneralAntillesWell, they can get a degree in whatever they want04:36
ieatlintbecause i don't see many protesters down there with MBAs and computer science degrees04:36
GeneralAntillesbut making unlimited funds available for useless career paths isn't productive04:36
SpeedEvilGovernment is _way_ too willing to listen to lobbying.04:37
SpeedEvilRather than getting sane opinion on subjects.04:37
ieatlintTronic: they all seem to give that message, but they then list off several more at random04:37
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, personally, I'd argue government has way too much power. ;)04:37
GeneralAntillesand thus lobbying is way too effective.04:37
ieatlintTronic: and they are just angry about it, they don't propose any sort of solution04:37
GeneralAntillesIncentive still matters.04:37
TronicWhat I do wonder is where does this "no clear message" nonsense comes from.04:37
GeneralAntillesTronic, sure there's true democracy.04:37
GeneralAntillesThey voted for Obama.04:37
TronicGo to *any* demonstration and you will find signs that seem off the point. OWS seems far more consistent in message than your average demonstrations do.04:38
ieatlintTronic: where are you?04:38
GeneralAntillesTronic, until you start talking to demonstrators. :P04:38
Tronicieatlint: Finland.04:38
SpeedEvilUK government is currently pissing me off by lots of stories about 'benefit cheats' - and releasing stats about 'fraud (and in a subscript) and error'04:38
ieatlinthow many OWS protesters you have there?04:38
ieatlintbecause i'm traveling between san francisco and oakland, and i see homeless encampments04:39
Tronicieatlint: A handful but I have no idea what they do. As I said, I've been following this via Google+.04:39
SpeedEvilThe clear implication is that fraud is rife - this has been picked up by lots of tabloid newspapers and TV.04:39
SpeedEvilBut official stats make it clear that error is the huger slice.04:39
SpeedEvilAnd payments due to errors by claimants are only 50% more that than errors due to highly trained staff.04:40
* SpeedEvil sighs.04:40
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, fraud is a pretty sizable problem with the welfare system here.04:40
GeneralAntillesBut the bigger problem is incentive.04:40
SpeedEvilSame here.04:40
GeneralAntillesThe system incentivizes all of the wrong things.04:40
SpeedEvilI'm currently on disability benefits.04:40
SpeedEvilI'm trying to get approval to so small amounts of work at irregular intervals as my health permits.04:41
SpeedEvil- maybe 3-4 hours a week of design work self employed.04:41
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, how bad is working from home for you?04:41
SpeedEvilThere is _no_ help for how to go the self employment route.04:41
GeneralAntilles(if it's not too prying)04:41
SpeedEvilAnd it's all geared to minimum wage.04:42
GeneralAntillesWell, that's government bureaucracy.04:42
Tronicieatlint: Finland already has very strong social security and also the division of wealth is not that much screwed here, so I guess that is a reason why the movement is rather minor here.04:42
SpeedEvilI get extremely tired when concentrating for extended periods, or doing any task that involves doing something for more than 20 minutes or so, and have to rest. And much of the time am feeling like head is packed with cotton wool.04:43
GeneralAntillesTronic, wealth isn't a zero-sum game.04:43
SpeedEvilHence progress is difficult.04:43
TronicGeneralAntilles: Quite true.04:43
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, sounds awful.04:43
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GeneralAntillesTronic, if the government would quit stealing Peter to pay Paul the GM Executive. . . .04:43
ieatlintTronic: if they had a concise message, i'd be more supportive04:43
ieatlintbut they've pigeonholed themselves into radical status04:43
ieatlintand i also dislike movements that decide they represent me04:44
SpeedEvilNot fun. Having to concentrate on benefits, and spending much of my potentially productive time reading caselaw, and 'decision makers guides' - is not helping either.04:44
GeneralAntillesieatlint, yeah, I hate that.04:44
SpeedEvilGreenpeace are especially good at that.04:44
TronicGeneralAntilles: I could otherwise understand left wing politics but what I cannot agree is trying to punish the rich "because it serves them right" rather than try and improve the society as a whole.04:44
ieatlintthe last time i recall someone telling me they were doing a big political thing for me, we invaded iraq04:44
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, that's a large part of the reason I'm in favor of private charities over government.04:44
ieatlintso yeah..04:44
* SpeedEvil is depressed again at the whole glowing Japan thing.04:44
ieatlinti'm off for food04:45
SpeedEviljust as nukes looked plausible to start building again, it's discounted on the basis of 50yo designs.04:45
SpeedEvilAnd private charities don't always work so well.04:45
SpeedEvilIt works great for kiddies with lukemia.04:45
SpeedEvilThey are sexy.04:45
strannik1This sounds interesting .. Whats the debate?04:46
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, it's a sad setback for what's mostly a clean and safely (and incredibly effective) energy system.04:46
SpeedEvilIt doesn't work nearly so well for some other groups.04:46
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, whatever my drunk ass feels like tossing in here.04:46
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, no, I don't disagree.04:46
strannik1:) haha awesome04:46
GeneralAntillesBut at least the incentive tends towards a positive direction rather than a bureaucratic one.04:46
SpeedEvilGuide-dogs-for-the-blind, for example, in the UK recently spent $30M on a custom dogbreeding facility involving hydrotherapy pools for the doggies.04:47
TronicGeneralAntilles: I do think that strong social security (I'd prefer basic income) and free education are good things for the society as a whole but harder taxes on the rich won't really have much effect on the public economy, therefore it is merely punishing the rich, not helping the society.04:47
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, started with complaining about OWS hypocrisy and inconsistency, throw in a little bit about bureaucratic welfare inefficiency and waste, and top if off with some nuclear energy depression.04:47
GeneralAntillesTronic, so, my issue there is that incentive still matters.04:47
M4rtinKwell, there is a 2 block (about 2000 GW-E) upgrade planed in Czech Republic :)04:48
GeneralAntillesand government doesn't do anything efficiently.04:48
M4rtinKseen that powerplant this summer, its pretty monumental even now :)04:48
strannik1I say screw socialism. Capitalism is the way to go04:48
GeneralAntillesTronic, does free education include degrees in useless shit?04:48
GeneralAntillesTronic, does it have any controls on price inflation in education?04:48
strannik1Education should be available to everyone though04:49
GeneralAntillesTronic, I suspect a large core of the origin of OWS in the US is the insane education bubble over the last 20 years.04:49
SpeedEvilThe UK recently raised the compulsory education age from 16-1804:49
GeneralAntilleslargely brought on by unlimited monies available for student loans.04:49
SpeedEvilAnd has recently had an aim of putting 50% of people into university.04:49
strannik1But the uk increased uni fees 3x04:49
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, I agree, but what form does that education take?04:49
TronicGeneralAntilles: There should be reasonable limits on the number of students accepted to each degree, eliminating most of those "useless degrees".04:49
TronicGeneralAntilles: The point about education being free is that the students get chosen by entrance exams or similar means, not by wealth.04:50
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, some people aren't well served by pursuing a university degree.04:50
SpeedEvilstrannik1: It's not quite that simple.04:50
SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: Or indeed continuing education from 16-1804:50
strannik1The uni fees? Or education for everyone?04:50
SpeedEvilstrannik1: many people will not pay back their loans, they are written off.04:50
SpeedEvilstrannik1: And if you don't end up earning 'reasonably' - you don't have to pay anything.04:51
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, well, are we talking mandatory public education or a reasonable sum of money attached to each student that their parent's can decide where to spend.04:51
SpeedEvilParents can make really, really bad decisions.04:51
strannik1Yea true04:51
* GeneralAntilles is very happy to be off cold medicine and onto alcohol (just for tonight, though)04:51
TronicBeing a supporter of (mostly) free market economy, I do think that private schools should be permitted, of course. If someone is willing to pay their own expenses, then why not...04:51
GeneralAntillesTronic, what about vouchers (attaching money to the student to take where they please)?04:52
strannik1Yea i was about to say04:52
SpeedEvilAnd how does it work for home-schooling?04:52
TronicGeneralAntilles: Depending on the limitations of the voucher, it is pretty much the same thing I'd prefer (i.e. any institution can get the public funding instead of having to be state-driven).04:53
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, sure, anybody can make really bad decisions.04:53
GeneralAntillesBut that's part of life04:53
GeneralAntillesTrying to have the government protect everybody from any bad decisions they might make ends up hurting more than it helps.04:53
SpeedEvilIn some areas.04:54
SpeedEvilTrying to encourage local industry, and decrease flows of capital out of the country may be positive.04:54
strannik1SpeedEvil: this whole student loan thing cant be an answer to students problems.. Apparently next year there will be 20-25% less people going to uni04:55
GeneralAntillesThe whole "locally made is better" thing is sort of a fallacy.04:55
SpeedEvilAnd individuals don't do that.04:55
SpeedEvilAnd not 'locally made is better'.04:55
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, trade imbalances?04:55
SpeedEvilThe current model of trade in the 'west' is scary.04:55
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's an interesting problem.04:55
SpeedEvilApple is not a manufacturing company.04:56
strannik1Apple is a fruit!04:56
SpeedEvilThey're a company that sticks labels on boxes made inchina.04:56
SpeedEvilAll the profit stays in the US. (pretty much).04:56
SpeedEvilThere is no technical reason why chinese OEMs can't bite real hard into this, and similar markets, making all the stuff in china, but keeping all the profit in china.04:56
SpeedEvilAt this point, the balance of trade goes _really_ into the crapper.04:57
strannik1Are you saying it should be fairer?04:57
SpeedEvilI'm saying that we're fucked.04:57
GeneralAntillesTrade deficits are sort of misleading, though.04:58
strannik1We as the western world?04:58
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, hypothetically they could04:58
GeneralAntillesbut is it actually in their best interest?04:58
GeneralAntillesI mean, the money obviously comes back for a reason.04:58
SpeedEvilWhen the chinese brands start rising in the west, and US branded sales (or UK or western) drop, the balance of trade gets nasty.04:58
GeneralAntillesRational self-interest and all that is a powerful thing.04:59
SpeedEvilAnd US purchasing power drops a lot.04:59
SpeedEvilWe're at the moment living off investments made by our grandfathers and great grandfathers.04:59
TronicUniversity students here get up to 470 €/month social security but most people still end up working part-time for extra income, causing the studies to be delayed (instead of the five-year nominal length, Bachelor+Masters takes more than seven years by median and quite often more than 10 years).04:59
SpeedEvilIn really good infrastructure, food safety, and a large number of other things that made an efficient workforce.05:00
strannik1Tronic: which country is this?05:00
Tronicstrannik1: Finland.05:00
GeneralAntillesTronic, I know plenty of people who completed their studies in 4 years working 20-40 hours a week.05:00
TronicOddly enough, the unemployed get (depending on various things) around 800 €/month.05:00
berndhstrade deficits in the short term mean someone isn't getting paid for their production05:01
SpeedEvilBut China (and the rest of the world) are catching up.05:01
SpeedEvilberndhs: Not quite. They mean they're not getting paid equally on each side of the planet.05:01
berndhsthey are getting paid by promises to get paid later, which doesn't always happen05:02
TronicHow are the social security benefits in USA, BTW?05:02
SpeedEvilBut local payment rates may be much lower in one place.05:02
SpeedEvilmaking it 'OK' for a while.05:02
strannik1It really worries me how socialism is discussed so much in general at the moment... I spoke to a spanish guy (about socialism). I never knew people in europe existed who want what sounds to me05:02
strannik1Like communism05:02
SpeedEvilThis is one reason why I'm so in favour of nuclear. Competing with the rising chinese middle class for energy 20-40 years out is a _scary_ prospect.05:03
SpeedEvilWhich is why we need to get off fossil fuel fast.05:03
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, Europe appears to be largely all about that these days. :P05:03
Tronicstrannik1: The left wing politics are on the rise now, quite possibly due to the depression since 2008.05:03
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, out of interest, where are you located?05:03
strannik1I study in the uk05:03
strannik1But i live in germany05:04
strannik1But i am actually russian05:04
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, sounds like a lot of traveling.05:04
Tronicstrannik1: Also they are now getting a lot of media attention, something that I haven't noticed happening before.05:04
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: Uranium also is fossil05:04
strannik1It feels like having left socialist russia . For socialist europe05:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Well - yes. But it - and thorium - aren't likely to run out soon.05:05
SpeedEvilThen there is fusion.05:05
DocScrutinizerwhile solar clearly isn't, as are wind power mills05:05
SpeedEvilSolar is in some ways a distraction without massive amounts of energy storage.05:05
strannik1I think it must have been better in europe in the 70s because there was fear of socialism/communism... Now there is no fear . And europe can slip right into it by accident05:05
berndhsthorium would buy use a few hundred years to get past these issues05:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: (not likely to run out) are you sure about your data on that ?05:06
TronicUranium is not a fossil fuel by definition.05:06
SpeedEvilWhat happens in greece will be illuminating.05:06
GeneralAntillesTronic, it's the romance of the 60s hippie movement (at least with OWS).05:06
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: The exploitable reserves of uranium are quite high. Thorium even higher.05:06
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, well, the US is still a little better (for now).05:06
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: I heard different05:07
SpeedEvilWhat is currently available in existing mines is fairly low.05:07
SpeedEvilThis is because the uranium price crashed.05:07
strannik1Yea the us sounds like one of the only countries really fighting for democracy, capitalism etc05:07
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: according to some scenarios fission fuel may each peak before oil does05:07
berndhsDocScrutinizer: I remember those scenarios from when I was a child, we're running out in about 198005:08
SpeedEvilThat can only be assuming existing mines only.05:08
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, that tradition seems to be going away thanks to the overwhelming success of public education, but we're still better off the most of the rest of the planet.05:08
GeneralAntillesThere's a crazy amount of opposition to using any of the huge oil reserves in North America.05:09
strannik1Nuclear power isnt bad as long it is properly controlled . If the facilities are regularly  maintained its not a problem05:09
GeneralAntillesFor some reason people would rather give money to Iran and Saudi Arabia.05:09
SpeedEvilParadoxically, if I was Iran, or Saudi, I would actually be investing in nuclear power.05:10
TronicDocScrutinizer: There is plenty of uranium for centuries to come and it is a rather common mineral in Earth crust. Even the existing deposits will take us so far that it simply isn't profitable to look for new ones.05:10
SpeedEvilAnd superconducting power infrastructure, to be able to supply power when the oil runs out.05:10
GeneralAntillesYeah, the Israelis aren't making that easy, though.05:10
SpeedEvilYeah - the politics of the area is fun.05:10
TronicDocScrutinizer: Also, fast breeder reactors can use the current "nuclear waste" as fuel, greatly increasing the amount of available energy.05:10
strannik1GeneralAntilles: thanks to public education? Surely public education includes history lessons that teach how socialism brought down the soviet union in the end .. Which is what .. 20 years ago05:10
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, not really.05:11
GeneralAntillesPublic education is about teaching learning, not teaching reasoning.05:11
GeneralAntillesand most of the public employees hold socialist views.05:11
TronicThorium is also an option but it hasn't been investigated because there is no shortage of uranium.05:11
berndhsi thought thorium was actually better than uranium, less readiactive waste, down side is you can't make bombs from it05:12
DocScrutinizeractually there's been a Thorium reactor in Germany, for some weeks or months :-P05:12
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, the history texts characterize it as Stalinism bringing down the Soviet Union (which is a form of communism, which isn't related to socialism at all, etc.)05:13
strannik1GeneralAntilles: my argument is this... True socialism is great .. Lets start sending all our wealth to africe . Because the labour class doesnt realize that they are actually the rich being in the top20% of the wealthiest people on earth05:14
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, the history texts don't actually tell you that 3000+ civilians were murdered in the Tiananmen Square protests.05:14
DocScrutinizeranyway, I hate all fission processes for the decay products05:14
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strannik1GeneralAntilles: well i find it funny how people in europe dont know that the soviet union never had communism.. Instead it was socialism05:15
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, yeah, the US Census Bureau is trying redefine the poverty line to be about at about 2,200 USD higher than it was.05:15
GeneralAntilles~$22k to ~$24k for a family of four.05:15
Tronicberndhs: It is hard to tell, as pretty much the only material you can get on it these days is by pro-Thorium lobbyists.05:15
GeneralAntillesOf course that family of four usually has an HDTV and cable.05:16
strannik1Haha :)05:16
strannik180% of the world makes about 10 dollars a day i think05:16
Tronicberndhs: That sort of material is probably correct about the benefits but it is also likely to ignore any disadvantages there might be.05:16
strannik150% make about 5 dollars a day05:16
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, most of my primarily-self-supporting college-student friends would qualify for Federal food stamps.05:17
strannik1Hahaha XD05:17
strannik1Well i would too05:17
SpeedEvilIncome can be misleading in the face of high living costs.05:17
GeneralAntillesLargely that's because of the insane expansion of the program under the Obama administration.05:17
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, true, but you don't live in the SF Bay Area making $24k.05:18
GeneralAntillesThere are lots and lots of cheap places to live in the US.05:18
GeneralAntillesWe have plenty of empty square-footage.05:18
SpeedEvilProblem then becomes where are the jobs for those that'd have to move?05:18
GeneralAntillesBut, my issue isn't so much with what people want to define poverty as as how they seem to want to "address" it.05:19
SpeedEvilThe most broken aspect of the UK for lower earners is houses.05:19
SpeedEvilWe haven't been building significant numbers.05:19
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, well, that's why I'd argue you don't want crushing, burdensome government parasitism and regulation impeding commerce.05:19
strannik1SpeedEvil: in socialist soviet union the jobs, demand and supply was created by the government .. When it collapsed people were confused on how to get a job05:20
TronicIt'll be interesting to see if the housing crisis hits Finland at some point. I paid 235 k€ for an apartment in 2010 and the prices still keep rising despite the depression.05:20
SpeedEvilAnd people have been splitting up and living in lower family sizes.05:20
SpeedEvilmeaning that the average 'first time buyer' without parental support is approaching 40.05:20
strannik1SpeedEvil: if someone moves to a new area .. Surely jobs can be created05:20
TronicI hear that apartments here are more expensive than in Manhattan.05:20
GeneralAntillesTronic, the core of the real estate burst here was the insane amounts of near-unlimited no-questions-asked credit put out at the behest of Congress.05:20
strannik1SpeedEvil: i mean by the very same people who move05:21
GeneralAntillesDemand creates commerce.05:21
GeneralAntillesAs long as the government can stay out of the way.05:21
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strannik1Yea screw goverment intervention05:22
TronicGeneralAntilles: Btw, did you watch the movie about that? Too Big to Fail (2011)05:23
TronicOne of the better movies this year.05:23
strannik1I think the whole perception of government systems is screwed anyway05:23
GeneralAntillesTronic, haven't seen it.05:24
GeneralAntillesI despise most of the big-name characters listed.05:24
GeneralAntillesTronic, "too big to fail" is a result of government meddling05:24
strannik1Whats government meddling?05:25
GeneralAntillesThat banks, insurance companies, airlines and car manufacturers are supposedly "too big to fail".05:25
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strannik1Dunno , i think thats bullshit05:26
GeneralAntillesIt's part politics and part the creation of monopolistic type companies via government barriers to commerce.05:26
strannik1The bigger you are the harder the fall05:26
strannik1The bigger the investment the greater the loss if it fails05:26
SpeedEvilSometimes monopolies emerge.05:27
SpeedEvilnot due to governmental action.05:27
SpeedEvilFor example, ebay.05:27
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, it's true.05:27
GeneralAntillesBut eBay's success is essentially dependent on its ability to serve its customers.05:27
berndhsebay, railroads, oil companies, regional transportation,...05:27
SpeedEvilThough a faiiilure of ebay would probably not be a cataclysmic event.05:27
GeneralAntillesIf eBay stopped doing that somebody else would step up to do business.05:28
GeneralAntillesBut eBay doesn't /really/ have a monopoly05:28
SpeedEvilit has a functional monopoly due to network effects.05:28
GeneralAntillesCraigslist being a big competitor05:28
SpeedEvilin some places.05:28
DocScrutinizernever heard of it05:28
SpeedEvilNot, for example, in the uk.05:28
berndhsthe railroads were effectively monopolies for large regions05:28
strannik1We can say its monopolistic05:28
GeneralAntillesberndhs, infrastructure is slightly more complicated.05:28
GeneralAntillesberndhs, that was largely government interference.05:28
berndhsit is more complicated, but the problems of monopolies versus free markets remains in those cases05:29
strannik1Berndhs: meh ,, the uks railroads suck .. Always late and they brake down if there is half an inch of snow05:29
TronicGeneralAntilles: I would think that it actually stems from a bigger fundamental problem with the monetary system. We wish for more money to be created all the time, to allow people to keep paying their debts. As a result, the interest rates have been 0.5-1.5 % for a very long time even though inflation is getting far ahead of that. The low rates both help people manage their monthly payments and encourage others to take more ...05:29
Tronic... loans, keeping the system running.05:29
GeneralAntillesTronic, debt is a big problem.05:30
GeneralAntillesBut the government appears to be leading by example here. ;)05:30
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strannik1Maybe we europeans already live in communism without know it.. Last time i checked you pay about 5% less taxes in china than most european country05:31
TronicGeneralAntilles: What the US goverment and the bankers have done with investment instruments (i.e. making the vast majority of the economy consist of those rather than real goods) follows from the need to keep increasing the monetary economy, even if we cannot actually produce more/better material goods.05:31
GeneralAntillesTronic, there's nothing wrong with a strong financial market.05:31
GeneralAntillesWhere do you think capital comes from?05:31
berndhsthe volume of financial markets is about 10 times that of production, world wide05:32
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GeneralAntillesBut the government's meddling in the financial system needs to stop.05:32
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TronicGeneralAntilles: Capital comes from loans, which are oversupported by various systems (yes, including the governments).05:32
berndhsso the capital in financial markets comes from betting on production and consumption05:32
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strannik1Btw  you guys know that china is socialist and not communist? And that the soviet unions was also socialist and never communist05:34
TronicGeneralAntilles: Unfortunately I don't think that'll help but I would certainly be willing to accept it *if* it also meant no more bailouts. I.e. if the private sector takes the profits, they also need to handle the risks.05:34
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, oh the fun meddling redefinition of terms you'll find there in the US education system.05:35
GeneralAntillesTronic, bailouts are meddling.05:35
TronicGeneralAntilles: Yes, just needed to clarify because many think that "no meddling" only means more freedom.05:35
GeneralAntillesTronic, Orwellian redefinition of the language is becoming more and more frustrating. :(05:36
TronicQuite true.05:36
berndhsI like states like Qatar, privately owned :)05:36
strannik1Ok here is a mindfuck question . How do you know that we dont live in a dictatorship or socialism/Communism here in the western world?05:37
DocScrutinizerI'm not interested in the term we're using to describe what's happening in e.g. Russia05:37
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, we don't. We can only hope. :P05:37
strannik1Hahaha lol05:37
GeneralAntillesstrannik1, but look at the ever-increasing power of bodies like the EU and the UN.05:37
strannik1Even in the ussr you had parliament elections05:37
GeneralAntillesUnelected, unaccountable.05:38
strannik1European Union ,, Soviet Union .. Get the hint haha .. Now imagine the blue flag is red ;)05:38
DocScrutinizerso what?05:38
strannik1Add some socialism into the mix05:39
GeneralAntillesI don't get the whole "the 1% controls everything!" Well, what's your answer? "Give more power to the 1%!"05:39
strannik1Maybe putting weaker eu states into debt and robbing them05:39
GeneralAntillesGreece is going to be fun.05:39
strannik1They should leave the eu fast05:40
TronicGeneralAntilles: Not to mention Italy and others still being ignored.05:40
GeneralAntillesEU should dissolve.05:40
DocScrutinizerignored by whom?05:40
TronicGeneralAntilles: Need to handle one of them at a time because nobody wants to see the big picture.05:40
GeneralAntillesIt's not good for anybody but the EU elites.05:40
strannik1Infact i think spain is off just as bad as greece financially05:40
strannik1GeneralAntilles: yea true .. Not even for the elites because weaked members pull down the elites05:41
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TronicDocScrutinizer: There are plenty of EMU members whose economy is screwed already. We are expected to bailout one at a time. In the Spring it was Portugal, now it is Greece (again), others will follow as soon as we have Greece sorted out.05:42
TronicIceland is not doing too badly, now is it?05:42
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strannik1I thought china was going to help with the greece bailout05:43
strannik1I dunno if theyre still going to send over the money05:43
GeneralAntillesGreece needs to get its house in order.05:43
Tronicstrannik1: They pulled out, apparently due to the mess with Greece not being able/willing to make those budget cuts.05:43
GeneralAntillesBailouts aren't going to help there.05:43
strannik1Tronic: greece should just leave ..they will end up being a bitch of europe05:44
strannik1If it doesnt end in war05:44
TronicIceland is an interesting country in that that they simply decided not to pay their debts.05:44
strannik1Or a second euro currency should be made to help the weaker states05:44
Tronicstrannik1: Their own currency won't really solve any of the issues.05:45
strannik1Well it will .. They could regulate their own inflation for instance05:45
GeneralAntillesAlright, it's been fun gentlemen, but I've got to get up early tomorrow to vote. 'night.05:46
strannik1Night night .. What you voting for?05:46
strannik1Peace , freedom and pink furry elephants?05:46
GeneralAntillesCity council elections and a handful of power-grabbing referendums.05:46
GeneralAntillesSo, "underdog" and "no."05:47
strannik1Go get em!! And remember in the ussr you could vote too :) haha05:47
Tronicstrannik1: Assuming that Greece switched to Drakhma, the value of that would be next to nothing. Now, their internal market might seem good then but they couldn't afford to import anything anymore.05:47
strannik1I think its interesting how the pirate party is getting more and more votes05:47
Tronicstrannik1: Banks would get huge losses from the public debt shrinking with the currency change.05:48
strannik1Tronic: low currency for greece would actually be excellent . It would mean a lot of foreign investment05:48
strannik1Therefore jobs05:48
strannik1Facilities , etc05:49
Tronicstrannik1: Why would anyone invest in Greece?05:49
strannik1If the currency was so cheap05:49
TronicIt is a country infested with massive corruption.05:49
strannik1Say you could open a hamburger shop for just 100 bucks there05:49
berndhsTronic: if its dirt cheap to buy the corruption, its still attractive to investors05:49
Tronicstrannik1: Yes, but you also get almost no profits at all (in USD/EUR because the local currency is so weak).05:50
strannik1Thats why having an own currency is good05:50
Tronicberndhs: Good point.05:50
strannik1Tronic: well if everybody starts going in because its cheap it will eventually raise the currency05:51
ieatlinthaha, it's still going05:51
strannik1And even if you dont make a lot of money at first it might be a good long term investment05:51
strannik1Look at cocacola and pepsi05:52
strannik1They will sell you the drinks at a loss if they have to05:52
TronicWell, at least they have very strong military forces. It appears that a lot of the bailout money so far has gone into new tanks and battleships.05:52
ieatlintkeep fighting for the proletariat, comrades05:54
ieatlint(there, that should stir it a bit longer)05:54
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berndhswe haven't argued deb vs rpm all month05:55
strannik1Does anyone know what the socialist movement in london was all about?05:59
* Tronic sings The Internationale05:59
strannik1The people gathering at st pauls06:00
Tronicstrannik1: Black movement, actually (AFAIK)06:00
strannik1Yea the media keeps saying its the blacks lol06:00
strannik1So the blacks want socialism?06:00
TronicNo, they want new flatscreen tellies.06:01
strannik1Hahahaha XD06:01
strannik1Yea and iphones06:01
strannik1But they left the bookstores intact06:01
TronicNo wonder.06:01
strannik1Education should be forced upon people ha06:02
strannik1Funny how in the ussr the peasants took over the farm lands and killed the previous owners06:02
strannik1They didnt know how to make good use of the farm land , and manage it06:03
TronicOn a more serious note, there has been a very strong clash between classes (labour vs. "the suits") in London (dunno of the rest of UK) long before those riots.06:03
strannik1So it ended up in famines06:03
strannik1This is what i dont get.. Everybody has the chance to compete in the market06:04
strannik1It seems fair to me .. Everybody has to work hard06:05
TronicWell, that's the problem. In socialism everybody must be equal. In market economy you get ahead if you are better.06:05
strannik1Not neccesarily if you are better , but if you are hard working i would say06:06
TronicIn an ideal capitalistic society everybody has the same starting point and some finish off better than others.06:06
strannik1A lot of the labour complain that ceos dont do any work ... I dunno if that is true06:06
strannik1Tronic: yea and everyone has a choice which path to take06:07
SpeedEvilhard working, and lucky.06:07
strannik190% work 10%luck .. A teacher used to tell us before we took exams06:08
Tronicstrannik1: But if you are stupid, less lucky or whatever (assuming attributes you cannot change yourself), you may end up at the bottom.06:08
TronicThe reality is that people are not "created" equal.06:08
berndhshard working, lucky, helpful uncle, ...06:08
SpeedEvilTronic: ugly06:08
TronicIn a socialist society everybody is forced to finish equal.06:08
berndhsagain, unless you have a helpful relative06:09
strannik1Or if you are superclever but you are a lazy bum who just cant be fucked06:09
TronicAlso, there is no ideal capitalistic society because in reality some already have wealth while others have to start from the bottom. The existing wealth may be used to prevent new competitors from entering the market.06:10
strannik1But those who start at the bottom have less risk06:11
strannik1They have nothing to lose06:11
strannik1Its kinda like in a casino06:11
strannik1It doesnt matter if you are playing roulette with 100 , or 100,00006:11
strannik1Its actually exactly the same06:12
TronicA typical example is that of an important company (say, Intel) forcing its customers not to use the competitor's product by threatening to stop selling to them otherwise.06:12
SpeedEvilHaving no safety net reduces the ability of those one step up fromthe bottom to try to improve themselves.06:12
SpeedEvilAs their risk is much higher.06:12
TronicSo, Dell cannot ship PCs with AMD CPUs because then they would no longer have access to Intel hardware.06:12
TronicThe governments interfere by setting antitrust limitations, trying to prevent such behavior.06:13
strannik1Meh , generally the more capitalistic a country is the better06:15
TronicCapitalistic or liberal?06:15
TronicThe latter meaning completely unregulated markets.06:16
strannik1Government intervention should only apply to essential needs.06:16
strannik1Tronic: probably liberal . But with a very few limitations06:16
TronicAllowing free competition on a market is a rather essential need, wouldn't you say?06:17
strannik1I would actually yea06:17
TronicIf a monopoly corporation can block everybody else out, I don't see how the free market could function.06:17
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strannik1Tronic: that is tricky actually yea06:18
strannik1Well microsoft is monopolistic for example06:19
strannik1Is it that bad?06:19
TronicThey would be much more so if it weren't for the law preventing them.06:19
berndhsthe problem with all these systems is that they are not stable06:20
TronicE.g. consider forcing laptop manufacturers to only ship with Windows preinstalled.06:20
berndhsfree markets don't tend to stay free, "fair" systems like socialism or anarchy don't stay fair06:20
TronicHow could one sell an alternative OS if everybody has to pay for the preinstalled Windows in any case?06:20
SpeedEvilAnd requiring bootloaders that do not allow unsigned code.06:20
SpeedEvilTronic: that's in the case in the UK pretty much.06:20
SpeedEvilYou can't get refunds06:20
strannik1You can always build your own pc .. Buy a mac06:21
strannik1With a laptop you would be struggling06:22
berndhssoon you will get safe, authenticated signed boot loaders. Good luck making your own OS then06:22
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Tronicberndhs: Not gonna happen (as a mandatory feature) on PC, though... But it is already on all other devices.06:23
strannik1I hope that won't happen06:23
TronicOn PC historically always the more open/compatible system wins.06:23
SpeedEvilhistorically, yes.06:24
strannik1It has been true for mobile devices and consoles06:24
SpeedEvilIf hardware makers figure out how to get a cut of 'appz' revenue...06:24
TronicSpeedEvil: Pretty much the only company that could pull that off is Intel but not even them as long as AMD is well alive (anyone remember Athlon64 vs. Intel trying to phase out x86?)06:25
TronicHaven't seen many Itaniums around but AMD's 64 bit arch is everywhere.06:26
SpeedEvilYour average user does not care about openness.06:27
SpeedEvilThey care about 'will it run crysis at xpfs'06:27
SpeedEvilOr 'does it run the internet'06:27
strannik1Haha lol yea06:27
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: no06:27
SpeedEvilIt's only if there are enough niche users, that it's a worthwhile marketing opportunity that there is a pressure towards continued openness.06:27
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: business >> home06:28
berndhsIntel has been promoting Trusted Boot to redhat et al06:28
SpeedEvilAnd yes - there is that.06:28
strannik1There should be more hackers around06:28
TronicSpeedEvil: The average user doesn't but the extremely heterogenous PC industry appears to be the force that keeps everything free/open.06:28
strannik1The new kids are too impatient06:29
strannik1And the hacker community today just sucks06:29
strannik1Yea i dont think it will go down the route of everything being closed down06:29
strannik1Having to have signed software to run06:30
strannik1Tho who knows06:30
TronicSpeedEvil: E.g. UEFI doesn't get much attention until Asus and others start putting it on their motherboards, despite Intel's best efforts.06:30
berndhsit's all for your saftety :)06:30
TronicThe BTX standard pushed by Intel died at birth because the M/B manufacturers preferred the better compatibility of ATX.06:30
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berndhsoh well06:32
berndhsgood night06:32
SpeedEvilHackers getting distracted into pointless ventures, like android ROMs, and apple cracking is depressing.06:32
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strannik1I am off to bed06:33
strannik1Night all06:34
strannik1Getting 4 hours of sleep :((06:34
TronicOne manufacturer, one ecosystem, one OS - that's the model where you always end up with no right to tinker.06:34
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TronicFortunately the PC is the opposite of Nazi Germany.06:35
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TronicWell, it was nice chatting politics and whatnot with you lads for a change. I'm off to gym->06:36
SpeedEvilHave fun.06:36
TronicThanks :)06:37
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hiemanshuis there printing support in harmattan yet?06:49
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hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: why do laugh? :P07:25
ieatlintme not know07:25
dm8tbrsome CUPS and a ui to send files to it shouldn't be too hard... :)07:30
SpeedEvilIs it posssible to talk to bluetooth printers with the existing modules though.07:42
SpeedEvilBecause if you can't, you can't install cups07:42
SpeedEvilwell - you can, but you can't use it07:43
SpeedEvilWell - not bt07:44
dm8tbrhm? cups could still talk to network printers using various protocols07:48
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hiemanshuyeah, I have a shared printer, and wanted to print emails without powering on laptop, could probably write a UI for it07:49
dm8tbrI wonder how you'd dump the email though07:57
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hiemanshuemail attachments :P08:08
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chpwnthis page says the 16GB N9 should have 9.7GB for user data:
chpwnbut mine shows "Total Memory: 8.46 GB" and then "User data: 179.5 of 2.1GB08:19
chpwnI was able to find this discussion reporting a similar issue, but it didn't seem to have a solution:
chpwnIgnore me. A reboot fixed it. nevermind.08:28
ieatlinti'm already on it08:28
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TronicPhoto printing from gallery app would be cool.08:46
Sazpaimon_does the N9 wifi driver have packet injection08:51
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CorsacI would doubt it08:52
psycho_oreosif its based on mac80211 framework then it should. Whether or not will aegis allow you to muck around and do proper wireless pentesting is something else08:53
Sazpaimon_i also really wish they would use a chip that did AP mode08:58
Sazpaimon_adhoc mode needs to die08:58
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psycho_oreosI thought that chipset was supposed to be capable of master/AP mode. Well at least according to wl1271 is listed as yes to AP mode09:03
psycho_oreosaccording to the specifics, it may require a different firmware for Access-Point (maybe they're referring to access point/master mode)?09:03
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CorsacI didn't even tried wifi hotspot yet09:04
Corsacbut with n900 tethering through usb was just enough for me09:04
Corsacgoing wireless isn't really useful and takes too much battery09:04
hiemanshuwireless is useful when you have multiple machines09:08
psycho_oreosits another way if you look at it from this perspective than using USB networking and to have the device sucking off laptop's power09:08
psycho_oreoswell not exactly, wireless is handy when you have multiple mobile workstations and you don't have access to proper networking equipment handy09:09
hiemanshuthat, or if you are in my position and ISPs dont want to give you proper internet :P09:09
psycho_oreosI'm sure its more or less the same reasoning if for instance you had an android device with SIM card/CDMA and is connected to internet. Setting up USB networking is somewhat a little complex but I'm sure users will find hotspot somewhat more friendly when setting it up is a few button clicks away09:11
Sazpaimon_psycho_oreos, yeah but the firmware is closed09:14
Sazpaimon_and i dont think there's anything for ARM that does AP mode09:14
psycho_oreosbesides that, AP mode can also be used in various other wasys, like for example it can be used for pentesting.. as a target or as the attacker setting up a honeypot09:14
Sazpaimon_also that page says wl1271 isnt capable of monitor mode09:15
Sazpaimon_but im pretty sure it is09:15
psycho_oreosSazpaimon_, I wouldn't know right now but I wouldn't say AP mode isn't possible until its been fully ruled out09:15
Sazpaimon_actually wait what did the N900 have09:15
Sazpaimon_so that does support monitor mode yeah09:16
Sazpaimon_and the N9 has wl1271 which apparently doesnt support monitor mode09:16
Sazpaimon_so it might not be able to do packet injection09:16
psycho_oreosprobably not as yet09:17
psycho_oreosthought it might though, I should ask in #linux-wireless however09:17
Sazpaimon_but it does to AP mode, interesting that the hotspot app does adhoc mode then'09:17
psycho_oreosagain I'm not sure why but if you go to wl1271 specifics page you'll see that it seems it requires a different firmware possibly to enable AP mode.. not to mention you needed to install and configure hostapd09:18
psycho_oreosI guess for developers its easier for them to program it that way :þ09:19
Sazpaimon_so no injection, no AP mode09:19
psycho_oreosiwconfig wlan0 mode ad-hoc, etc, etc, etc09:19
psycho_oreosprobably not as yet09:19
Sazpaimon_and even when a kernel module that adds it comes out, we cant add it thanks to aegis09:20
psycho_oreoslooks like the firmware doesn't support rfmon. Though there might be a bit of chink in the armour: "TI has licensed the FW to several partners that may be interested in helping you to implement a sniffer."09:23
psycho_oreosyou can't load/unload modules as root?09:25
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psycho_oreossounds like as if N950 has more of a chance than N9 in succeeding rfmon and ultimately packet inject09:29
infobotpsycho_oreos meant: sounds like as if N950 has more of a chance than N9 in succeeding rfmon and ultimately packet injection09:29
qronicwho knows on which stage (and where in code) SEAL bit is set into /sys/kernel/security/validator/enabled?09:31
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alteregoCan someone tell me what package devel-su is in?10:02
hiemanshualterego: busybox-devel-su10:05
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qronicwhat chip is responsible for the top (talk) speaker? card 0: dfl61twl4030 [dfl61-twl4030], or10:12
qroniccard 1: dfl61dac33 [dfl61-dac33]10:12
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Corsachmhm, does anyone know what rd mode and rd flags do on N9/950?11:05
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Venemogood morning everyone :)11:12
jonniCorsac: they dont do much, you can disable some watchdogs with it, and enable the serial console pins that are under n950 battery.11:19
qronicPR1.1 came on N9!11:21
jonniserial-console is the only semi usefull feature, since with that you can remove fix malf state11:22
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deramany way to get to N9 serial pins?11:24
Stskeepsheh, good fucking luck on those :)11:24
qronicweek 4011:25
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qronicoh, btw, look here
qronicbeta3 for n950? what's that? is it pr1.1?11:27
griqronic: really? Damn, don't have network connectivity on the n9 here :(11:27
qronicyep, downloading it now, 200mb11:28
grialso 39-5?11:28
qronicnope, week 4011:28
qronicI guess it's the same basically11:29
qronicthat beta3 for n950 folder was created today, kernel files there are compiled on 29th of Oct11:29
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grimy n9 doesn't find updates (on 3g)11:30
X-FadeUpdate once more.11:30
derammine neither.11:30
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deramoh, now I see 20.2011.40-411:31
grihmm, then mine is too stupid to say "connection too bad" and just displays "device is up to date" when clicking refresh in updates11:32
qronicmaybe they're rolling it in some countries first11:33
qronicwhat's your battery %?11:33
qronicnot the case, then11:34
griWell, I check at home again, can't update from here anyway11:34
decibytewhere's the "check for update" button?11:35
mecedecibyte, settings->applications->manage11:35
grisettings -> programs -> updates11:35
gridamn, too slow :)11:35
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decibyteyeah, just found it. there's no updates for me :(11:36
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meceoo,I have an update too! for sdk connectivity tool :)11:37
decibyteoh, i _do_ have updated. yay!11:38
deramUpdating 0 %11:38
X-Fadesdk for beta3 is still uploading, so I'd suggest you wait for a bit :)11:39
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qronicso what is beta3? Pr1.1?11:39
griSo we have update-day, n9, qt sdk and necessitas? :)11:40
X-Fadeqronic: Not exactly, but close.11:40
deramI hope the N9 update is compatible with sdk...11:40
X-Fadeb3 has updated qt components and a few small other fixes.11:40
* gri loves the black menu bars of pr 1.111:41
X-FadeBut it is compatible with 34-1 and up.11:41
qronicbtw, developers have no control over disabling locking screen? For exmaple, I want to have a timer running for 2 minutes, so I can't make the display not lock for these 2 min?11:42
qronicif lock period is set to 1 min11:42
RST38hWell, the display actually locks faster than the period11:42
RST38hI have no idea why11:42
griqronic: I think you can since games can do that11:43
griand there's an app in ovi store which blocks the screen from locking11:43
leinirqronic: sure, you can force the screen to not lock until you allow it again... look through the screen control api, not sure where it is but i know i ran across it at some point :)11:44
qronicthanks, guys, it's good, now I canl email the author of MTimer :)11:44
petteriI see the update also. Updating right now11:44
petterifor N911:45
RST38hWhat update? There is an update?11:45
* leinir is working on an NFC powered update for his tea (and eggs and pasta and whatever else) timer app... :)11:45
qronicscroll up a bit )11:45
qronicupdating right now11:46
alteregoleinir: I bought 10 NFC stickers the other day :)11:49
alteregoStill contemplating what to stick them to :)11:49
alteregoTV is one, and my laptop.11:49
gristicker the cat, one gets diet food, the other not :P11:49
leiniralterego: Tehee :)11:50
leiniri picked up a bunch of them at devdays in Munich ;)11:50
leiniralso made sure to grab a bunch for my little brother's uni project - scored them two N9s and a set of four type1, four type2 and four mifare tags for their mobile project next semester :)11:51
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qronicnot a good sign, update has failed, asks to retry or cancel11:53
qronicretry: downloads another 313kb and tries again11:55
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qronicI feel like it's gon fail again, probably will have to reboot and then try again11:55
leinirhmm... wondering if it might'be been published a little too early :)11:56
leiniras in, the information the update is there is11:57
leinirso that the notification is made before the actual data's done uploading and spreading to the various mirrors11:57
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qronicI think the actual data was uploaded on week 40-4111:59
RST38hContradicting earlier reports from the Guardian, Reuters reported late Monday that four sources close to the matter have confirmed that WebOS is being sought by companies, potentially Oracle, and that HP is weighing the benefits of a potential sale.11:59
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qronicwhy would oracle need it? btw, I've read reoprts how good webos is, but got the touchpad on the sale and damn, webos is a crap next to harmattan12:00
qronicat least on the UI side12:00
qronicok, it failed again12:01
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deramqronic: failed downloading or updating?12:04
qronicresetted, trying again12:05
deramI'm updating at 58%12:05
qronicI've never seen anything other than 0% :)12:05
* ArkanoiD_ browses xkb config trying to find damn autocapitalization rules12:06
ArkanoiD_no idea where can it be12:06
chouchouneis it normal that it switchs to flight mode during the update ?12:06
X-Fadechouchoune: yes12:06
chouchoune(just after 17%)12:06
chouchouneok, great12:06
deramat 0% it probably does integrity checking for the update.12:06
decibyteArkanoiD_: please tell us if you find it12:07
deramyep.. in device with quite usable shift, there is no reason for autocapitalize12:08
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deramwoh... update restarted phone, asked pin, and asked security code... just that the virtual keyboard took about a minute to load...12:17
Stskeepsreindexing happened, probably12:17
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decibyteit's almost like xmas :)12:18
decibyteeven better12:18
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djszapiX-Fade lbt is this site served by you ?
X-Fadedjszapi: yes12:22
djszapiDo you use the Open Collaboration Services Standard in the background ?12:22
X-Fadedjszapi: yes12:22
djszapiWe are about to make a ocs account plugin. Just thought, might be useful for you as well, not just for us, Gluon.12:22
X-FadeWe're not providing the account part yet though.12:23
djszapiis it planned ?12:23
djszapioh grat.12:23
X-Fadedjszapi: It is a nice to have, but it is not planned atm.12:23
leinirweeell... ocs is all about social distribution, it'd be pretty cool if you got that in there - it's something that no other platform has, so... :)12:24
X-FadeYeah, but right now the priority is still in getting the thing working ;)12:24
X-FadeBut I agree that it would be cool.12:24
X-FadeAnd some parts would be reasonably easy to add.12:25
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djszapimmm, attica is not available by default on this platform. We might need to package that into the account plugin.12:25
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qronicX-Fade: are there any logs to see why the update fails?12:25
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djszapiqronic: what sort of update ?12:25
leinirX-Fade: priorities++ ;)12:26
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X-Fadeqronic: I have no idea, not my area of expertise.12:26
qronicI see12:26
qronic<djszapi>: PR1.1 for N912:26
X-Fadeqronic: fwiw, my N9 updated fine just 10 mins ago.12:26
djszapiqronic: you mean ssu ?12:26
qronicyeah, but mine is stuck on 0% and then fails12:26
pinheiro_were does one report bugs?12:27
djszapipinheiro_: there are no bugs on Harmattan :D12:27
qronic<djszapi> that came over-the-air for N9 users12:27
decibytemy 3g connection dropped a few mb before the download was completed :'(12:27
pinheiro_for some reason my n950 keeps asking me for random account passwords all the time is that new?12:28
decibyteoh! it doesn't hav to re-download all of it. hooray!12:28
X-Fadepinheiro_: I got that too all of a sudden this weekend.12:29
djszapiqronic: I am not getting you12:29
X-Fadepinheiro_: After I entered all the passwords once, it stopped.12:29
djszapiX-Fade: do you have an idea why "osc" needs static qemu ?12:29
djszapiwhy the stock qemu does not work ?12:29
pinheiro_X-Fade: it wont stop12:29
X-Fadedjszapi: Because it runs it inside the chroot?12:30
djszapiX-Fade: cannot dynamic qemu be used inside chroot ?12:30
djszapiprobably not, so question is: the rason :)12:30
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X-Fadedjszapi: If you want to install complete arm libc and every dependency down the tree etc ;)12:31
decibyteqronic: did you get past 0%?12:31
Stskeepsdynamic qemu can't be used inside chroot12:31
djszapiX-Fade pretty unlucky, we do not have qemu on archlinux :/12:31
qronicdecibyte: no12:31
X-Fadedjszapi: Can't you just compile it?12:31
qronicinstall goes like this in ps ax:  5772 root     apt-desktop add-interesting mp-harmattan-001-pr libcontentaction12:31
X-Fadedjszapi: There are instructions on the meego wiki about it iirc.12:32
decibyteqronic: poor you. i thought mine was stuck too, but it just moved to 2%.12:32
djszapiX-Fade: I would like to make a packge, if I spend the time with it. Arch is a common distribution, and I am pretty sure others face the same issue.12:32
djszapipackage*, but that will require more time when I find that.12:32
pinheiro_btw wasnt the radio suposed to not work on the n950?12:32
qronicI guess, I'll have to wait for stand-alone flasher and image12:32
X-Fadedjszapi: Can't you steal the packaging from another distro? Not familiar with arch.12:32
djszapiX-Fade: no, arch was stolen by other distros :p12:33
djszapilike chakra ..12:33
djszapiX-Fade: do you have that link off-hand ?12:33
X-Fadedjszapi: no12:33
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* jreznik is downloading the update, slow but it works12:34
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djszapiX-Fade: I will make a try to install deb or rpm on arch :p12:36
X-Fadedjszapi: Does alien work there?12:36
djszapihope so, or dpkg12:36
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djszapiX-Fade: I do not find a (meego) wikipage for building static qemu12:44
djszapihi faenil o/ See your short talk in the Qt Dev Days video :)12:45
faenildjszapi: ahahah :D yeah xD that was fun, glad it was a short one XD12:45
faenilthe real interview was much longer, I'm glad they only used those 5 seconds :D12:45
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petteriupdate worked nicely. N9 seems notable faster to use12:53
decibytedid the vibration change in the new firmware?12:54
petteridon't know. I have not used it12:54
faenilwhich update?12:55
decibyteit just made a lot more noise on the table that i think it used to. maybe it's just my imagination. but i'd really like it to vibrate more than it used to.12:56
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decibytefaenil: update for the n912:56
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jreznikpetteri: really? faster? on n950 I'm feeling it's slower with PR1.1 but I hope it's true - it's unusable as music player, every action leads to mmus--ic-cc skipping...12:57
deramI'd like to see vibrate update, that allows you to disable vibrate when phone is not in pocket.12:57
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faenildecibyte: which version?12:57
alteregoOh neat, flasher has a -T option that allows you to supply an overlay of the image you're flashing on to a device.12:57
decibytefaenil: erh... 1.1? ask the other guys :)12:58
deramPR1.1 it is12:59
faenilyey! When was it released?12:59
decibytefaenil: as in "i don't know" - not to be rude.12:59
petterijreznik: yes nice and snappy12:59
faenilwow :)12:59
faenildecibyte: np ;)12:59
deramI'm having bit studdering in some places... nothing much open...12:59
derammight help when restarted,,,13:00
decibytehello, pretty music controls on lock screen :)13:00
deramdecibyte: but not in ovi music...13:00
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decibytederam: why not? but i don't use ovi music.13:01
deramI don't know.. just that there was no next button there when playing genreradio13:01
decibyteoh, well... still no ovi music in denmark :/13:03
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djszapihi M4rtinK o/ Do you know whether there is a bullet-proof wiki about building qemu statically from scratch ?13:26
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faenildarn PR 1.1 is not available here! :(13:28
M4rtinKdjszapi: no idea, I actually know qemu from a high level user perspective only13:28
djszapiM4rtinK: we should probably add the build steps to your section as soon as we figure it out.13:29
decibytefaenil: i had to tap the update button in the top right corner of the "manage applications" update screen to see it13:30
deramI had to go twice in to that updates menu...13:32
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qronicupdates are stored in /var/cache/apt/archives/13:35
qronic227.1M  /var/cache/apt/archives/13:36
qronicgonna rm -rf 'em and start again13:36
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ArkanoiD_got all resource-consuming tracker-store just like on n90013:39
X-FadeArkanoiD_: after firmware update?13:40
ArkanoiD_nope, just "happened"13:40
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qronic<ArkanoiD_> what you're using? n9/n950?13:40
* ArkanoiD_ rebboted -- it was definitely nuts13:41
djszapiso any Ui designers apart from the never available wazd ? :p13:41
ArkanoiD_oh no13:42
ArkanoiD_it did not help13:42
ArkanoiD_it woke up again and still doing "something"13:42
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ArkanoiD_UI is almost unresponsive13:43
ArkanoiD_battery is draining fast13:43
DocScrutinizeryay, updates. IS any of that backed up by a flashable official image now? aka OCF?13:43
ArkanoiD_the most stupid thing is that gestures almost stopped working13:45
ArkanoiD_i get "random taps" instead13:45
RST38hArkanoid <-- obviously did something to piss off gadget gods13:49
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djszapiWhere are the Harmattan Qt Components documented ?13:51
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mgedmindjszapi,, IIRC13:55
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djszapimgedmin: so where do you actually see the qt components there documented ?13:56
mgedminand the generic qt components are at
Venemothanks mgedmin, I didn't know13:57
* RST38h moos at mgedmin13:58
* mgedmin waves vaguely13:58
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djszapimgedmin: thanks.13:59
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djszapimgedmin: well the last one is not component thingie. That is more like plain QML14:00
mgedminI'm a bit fuzzy on the terms14:00
mgedminI though "component" == QML element14:01
ArkanoiD_is there something like iotop or conky?14:01
RST38hiotop exists14:01
djszapimgedmin: components mean native look'n feel to me. Pure QML does not know that.14:01
RST38heven part of developer tools, I think14:01
RST38hconky is actually a visualisation tool, not a measurement tool14:01
mgedmindjszapi, right, but some "upstream" QML elements are still necessary; meego-specific ones don't cover everything14:02
djszapiat any rate .. this link aforementioned sounds like a good reference on the landing page.14:02
kirmaupgraded N9 to PR1.1 with maybe a bit of apt-get force, and now I don't have localizations.14:06
ArkanoiD_it remembered all gestures i made while it was non-responsive and now is trying to perform corresponding actions14:06
kirmafor instance, PIN/security code buttons are no more numbers14:07
kirmaand application names are "!! Something"14:07
RST38hthat means they have not been translated14:07
RST38hshould not have used apt-get14:08
RST38hshould have figured out what packages prevent upgrade, remove these packages, then upgrade normally14:08
* RST38h awaits this evening's update process with fear14:09
mgedminArkanoiD_, :D14:11
mgedminso, I opened a 1300-page PDF (the pages are scanned bitmaps, not text!)14:11
deramswype+terminal+ssh+irssi=plain wrong things to random channels14:12
mgedminN9 did not even blink14:12
mgedminuntil I locked the screen14:12
mgedminand then I experienced the same thing: my unlock gestures started working after a 3-minute wait (and an OOM-killer killing process call-history message in dmesg)14:12
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* ArkanoiD_ wonders how long event queue is :-)14:12
RST38hthe size of your disk?14:15
kirmaI wonder what should I do next to get the damn phone fixed...14:17
kirmathankfully it's not bricked14:17
qronicreflash it with stock firmware14:18
qronicthen apply PR1.1 properly14:18
DocScrutinizerstress --help14:18
DocScrutinizermgedmin: ^^^14:18
DocScrutinizermgedmin: better tha 1300 pp random pdf14:20
DocScrutinizerqronic: well, <DocScrutinizer> yay, updates. IS any of that backed up by a flashable official image now? aka OCF?14:20
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fralsno idea why they arent publishing the fuckin images already14:21
fralsbeyond retarded14:21
DocScrutinizerkirma: qronic: I'd really be interested if you could flash downgrade this time, or if the new image again peeps up at some obscure 3rd party webpages/tools - if there's any for 40-414:22
kirmanow my phone is updating developer-mode, and at the moment the top-bar menu is losing entries and text in flight, and even has entries that are aligned in different orientations...14:22
kirmaI'm starting to suspect it's removing existing installations, starting from base software14:24
mgedminmy N9 is strangely warm14:25
mgedmin/usr/bin/messageserver is eating 100% CPU again14:26
* vladest updating qtsdk14:26
vladestis there is new fw for 950?14:26
* mgedmin kills it with fire (-9, since it ignores SIGTERM)14:27
X-Fadevladest: no, but this update for n9 is about the same as what you have on n950.14:27
vladestah, ok14:28
mgedminso swipe down now unconditionally closes apps? ugh, I don't think I'll like that14:28
RST38hmgedmin: login issue. kill.14:28
X-Fademgedmin: You can disble it?14:28
mgedminin PR 1.0, yes14:28
RST38hmgedmin: yes, swipe down closes apps by default, but can be disabled in some text file14:28
kirmaheh. now the phone really uninstalled all the pieces that'd allow fixing it again14:28
kirmaquite a feat14:28
mgedminin PR 1.0 there's an option in the settings app14:29
kirmahow to reflash n9 over usb?14:29
mgedminkirma, take it to a Nokia Care Center -- they haven't published a firmware image, the bastards14:29
Corsacthere's a firmware image available from Nokia servers14:29
Corsacbut it's not really official14:30
kirmaheh. thought about calling them, but I don't have a working phone...14:30
kirmais there a tool, too?14:30
Corsac~google unbricking n914:30
* X-Fade points to the topic14:31
CorsacX-Fade: the OCF won't help for N914:31
Corsac worked for me14:32
kirmawell, download link for the firmware of course doesn't work.14:33
Corsacsee comments14:34
sandst1kirma: use to download the image14:34
Corsacif you have a windows box14:35
DocScrutinizerCorsac: pointer14:35
CorsacDocScrutinizer: pointer?14:35
sandst1try installing with wine?14:35
sp3000it's my favorite14:35
DocScrutinizerto 40-4 image on nokia fileserver14:35
Corsacha, no14:35
Corsacno PR1.1 afaict14:35
Corsacwell, there might be but I don't have it, sadly14:36
sandst1only 34-1 in the server, just checked14:36
DocScrutinizeryep, just what I thought14:36
kirmawell, anything goes if it works14:36
DocScrutinizerkirma: you can get those files without the friggin navifirm14:36
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Corsaca quick magic reveals that exists14:37
Corsacbut maybe it's just the same 10.2011.34.114:37
Corsacyeah, any filename exists14:38
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DocScrutinizerwut? lol14:38
Corsacthere's some clever url redirects, the important parameters are before that, I guess14:38
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hiemanshunewer image?14:40
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Corsachmhm, kernel didn't change14:40
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DocScrutinizercould anybody try to downgrade flash to 34.1?14:41
CorsacI don't think I'll upgrade on 3G so I'll wait for tonight to upgrade14:43
kirmanice N9 with one capability now: by pressing power button, it shows nokia logo14:43
grihuh? It always shows the nokia logo when shutting down14:43
kirmaI'm really impressed by the fact that developer-mode upgrade actually removed base system14:43
kirmawell, it shows nothing else when I power up... ever :I14:44
X-Fadekirma: What did you do? Enable developer mode?14:44
Corsachmhm, no kernel update though14:44
X-Fadekirma: And then it didn't boot anymore?14:44
kirmaactually, the manual upgrade was a bit funny, and after it it suggested upgrading developer mode... well, things started to disappear from menus and so on14:44
djszapihave anybody written an account plugin so far ? Seems a bit more work than I thought :p14:44
w00tX-Fade: afair, he did a forced upgrade with apt-get14:44
kirmaplanning to reflash once I get the image...14:45
X-Fadew00t: That is a recipe for disaster.14:45
* gri gets http error 404 when doing apt-get update on the n9 :)14:45
X-FadeJust because you can, doesn't mean you should :)14:45
kirmaobviously :)14:45
kirmareally, not end of the world for me.14:45
X-Fadekirma: Did you try NSU?14:46
Corsacdjszapi: are you trying to create a jabber account plugin?14:46
kirmajust that the failure mode was almost hilarious14:46
gridjszapi: I did create an accounts-ui plugin in qml14:46
kirma"I'll upgrade this package - well, not really, but instead I remove the base installation"14:46
Sputsounds like something apt would do14:47
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Sputyears ago, it removed X11 when I tried installing qt4.14:47
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kirmaeven better is seeing how things start to disappear from the system live14:48
kirmaI mean, menus get shorter and whatnot14:48
xranbykirma: if for nokia manages to connect to wifi then you might be able to login over ssh14:49
xranbyand fix this by reinstalling the removed packages14:49
kirmaI don't believe this phone does anything before I completely reflash it14:49
kirmaalso, it doesn't really matter. less hassle with flasher, I bet.14:49
xranbykirma: sure flashing sounds like a safe option14:50
xranbyto get things working again14:50
DocScrutinizerapt-get upgrade -> *deprecated* ... wait this was for fremantle, seems it's still valid14:52
sandst1kirma: reflashed my n9, now the 1.1 update is properly installing.14:52
fluxit's always sad when a gui tool right-out deprecates a command-line one14:53
djszapiCorsac: ocs account plugin14:53
flux(instead of building upon the cli tool and improving it in the process)14:53
djszapigri oh col14:53
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griwell not that cool as it's ugly code :P14:54
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Corsacdjszapi: ocs like for the building service?14:55
DocScrutinizerkirma: would you try to reflash it with latest available image, right now?14:55
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X-FadeCorsac: no, same name, different thing.14:56
DocScrutinizerflux: aiui that's exactly what at very least fremantle HAM did, it used apt-get via apt-worker thread14:56
gridjszapi: I have no idea how to save passwords more secretly than plain text, account creation is simple14:56
fluxdocscrutinizer, but then it did something additional to that in some cases?14:57
djszapiCorsac: OCS and OBS. They are different terms :)14:57
DocScrutinizeryes, it was "building upon the cli tool and improving it in the process"14:57
Corsacok :)14:57
Corsacgrmbl, the music player still can't do random album playback :(14:58
djszapiCorsac: our last OCS sprint: :)14:58
DocScrutinizerthe music player has no friggin way to watch the actual playlist, not to think of editing it, or jumping forth (and maybe back) to random positions in the list14:59
Corsacdjszapi: is it related to the freedombox initiative?14:59
djszapiI do not know what freedombox is15:00
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kirmaDocScrutinizer: well, which/where is latest available image?15:01
DocScrutinizer[2011-11-08 13:41:00] <DocScrutinizer>
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fluxdocscrutinizer, yes, but it didn't improve the cli tool, but rather did the improving part by itself, in the gui app15:03
DocScrutinizerflux: right15:03
kirmaDocScrutinizer: I think I'm downloading that already15:04
decibyteis it really true there's an fm transceiver in n9? ...but no radio app (yet)?15:04
DocScrutinizerlike does tar for the gzip/bzip etc binaries15:04
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kirmaat least file name matches15:04
DocScrutinizerkirma: you're aware of that thread: ?15:04
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DocScrutinizerForumHandset Firmware flasher for Nokia N915:05
xranbydecibyte: there exist a community made radio app that work on my n915:05
decibytexranby: cool. what's it called?15:05
DocScrutinizerI wonder if it works without dev-mode enabled15:06
xranbydecibyte: fmrx:
xranbydecibyte: i downloaded .deb file and moved it over to my n9 using a usb cable15:08
xranbyFM Radio15:08
xranbydecibyte: its sort of a prototype.. you have to manually tune into the station  but it "work"15:08
xranbyits missing an autotuner15:09
decibytexranby: i'll take a look at it. thanks!15:09
DocScrutinizer >> Either way, one thing is for sure: *It requires developer mode to work.* <<15:10
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xranbydecibyte: remember to plug in earphones, its using its cable for antenna :)15:10
decibytexranby: as the n900 did (and almost every other phone, i guess)15:11
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griLOL, the sites greets with Lumia phones and this video: - The voice sounds like it was spoken by a trainee ..15:19
gri(well, german video)15:19
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DocScrutinizerooh, and while I don't feel like commenting on that radio app on my-meego:  The reason it needs BT enabled is the FMRX control is via same chip interface as BT, so BT needs to be *enabled* to get access to the radio function of the chip15:33
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xranbyDocScrutinizerthanks, one mosytery explained :)15:36
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decibytei'm just glad to find out it has fm tuner15:36
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xranbyim looking for a good bluetooth keyboard15:37
hiemanshuone that you can duct tape to a N9 :P15:37
xranbyhiemanshu: yes, preferably15:37
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xranbyor perhaps something i can attach to the arm15:38
xranbya startrek15:38
kirmayet to try out my el cheapo dealextreme bt keyboard with N915:38
deramthere is few made for iPhone... wonder if those could be modded for N9 form15:38
xranbyderam: i will check them out they probably work out of the box15:38
DocScrutinizerdecibyte: it even has a FMTX, technically (though I seem to recall somebody claiming this special chip variant doesn't have it) - anyway it's useless as no antenna connected to the chip's pin, so it will not send *anything*15:39
hiemanshuxranby: logitech dinovo15:39
hiemanshuor something like that15:39
deramthis for example15:39
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DocScrutinizerI think N9 doesn't work with any hw kbd15:39
decibyteDocScrutinizer: i saw that. isn't it just the same as n900? the transmitter wasn't really any good there, i think15:40
deramI saw some thread got n9 working with bt-keyboard15:40
DocScrutinizerdecibyte: on N900 the FMTX was as good as it got designed to be, and it had a PCB antenna15:40
xranbyhiemanshu: hmm thank you for the link.. i have to be carefull.. in order to get a keyboard with all the important {[]} ; easily accessible15:40
xranbywould be hard to run any IDE and code on the phone wihtout them15:41
decibyteDocScrutinizer: okay. i only tried it once. the range was about 20cm and quality awful.15:41
decibyte*sound quality15:41
kirmadon't ask me about it being good, but it's cheap :)15:41
xranbykirma: looks decent15:42
gridjszapi: It's hard to recognize you on the ocs-blog picture :)15:42
DocScrutinizerdecibyte: well, you can crank up N900 TX power, and by attaching e.g. a USB charger cable and/or headset it gets even stronger15:42
xranbyderam: thanks nice info15:42
djszapigri why so ?15:42
decibyteDocScrutinizer: okay. didn't know that. i doesn't really matter anyways :)15:42
decibytekirma: does it work with n9?15:43
gridjszapi: I wasn't expecting long hair :)15:43
djszapilong hair ?15:43
griwell, longer than you have now15:43
kirmaI don't know, but to my knowledge (and as far as I tried quite a time ago), it should be bt (of course dealextreme can ship whatever...)15:43
xranbydecibyte: looks like whats next to the n9 in this picture but with blue print on the keys
decibytexranby: may very well be15:44
djszapigri: :)15:45
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* djszapi is learning designing Ui interfaces :p15:45
decibytespeaking of peripherals, how does tv out work? usb-to-hdmi or...?15:45
gridjszapi: Wohoo :)15:45
djszapigri: conference tomorrow, too15:45
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djszapigri: about many things, but my talk is the opening of the linux mobile session :p15:46
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djszapimobile linux session is the most interesting to me.15:46
griwho would have guessed that :P15:46
grithe necessitas 0.3 installer always crashes :(15:48
djszapibecause of aegis ? ;)15:48
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gridjszapi: my guess or the crash?15:51
djszapigri: There is no central point of integration, i.e. presence-ui grabs information of it's interest from accounts db, thus to know how to extend it, I would need to know what is uses. Ppreferably access to presence ui sources or docs.15:51
djszapigri: do not think that much, if android installer crashes, it must be aegis. It is that simple ;-)15:51
gridjszapi: Yeah, they somehow managed to get aegis into my ubuntu vm :D15:52
* DocScrutinizer smiles like a clam at >>according to ******, it possible with dbus...<< at
djszapigri: There was some big idea of making accounts lib transparent to any ui workflow, so it only serves some very basic purposes, like enumerating accounts, and then you read xml directly.15:52
djszapigri: I feel really bad, that I do not actually know what are those xml tags. There is even "plugin writing guide" in libaccounts-ui code. It has about page of text... one xml example, not much description. I guess I'll be reading thru its code next: to see if I can know anything15:53
gridjszapi: I also found that once15:53
griI wrote to alberto margedan (listed as author)15:53
grihe replied he has quit Nokia ...15:54
djszapibig surprise :)15:54
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matrixxdjszapi: do you know if registration is still ongoing on the 14:00 coffee break tomorrow?15:54
djszapimatrixx: I think it was closed on Monday morning. You might join anytime, but you do not get this attendee package.15:55
matrixxI can't make to register earlier15:55
matrixxdjszapi: I've been registering, but I mean where can I get my badge15:55
gridjszapi: Since I did not know how to use libaccounts-ui, I just created the provider xml, created a qml plugin for accounts and wrote the account editing ui with qml15:55
djszapimatrixx: ohh, not sure. :) Can you ask Sergey please ?15:55
matrixxI'll email him15:55
alteregoThat is probably one of the ugliest lines of code I've seen in a while, I find it kind of weird that it's valid.15:56
djszapigri: was it a big job ?15:56
griNot really15:56
griwhen the accounts-ui starts your application, you can receive all data by creating a ProviderPluginProxy (or whatever it was called, don't have the exact name here)15:57
griit tells you whether the Account* you got is going to be created or an existing one15:58
kirmaah, reflashing helped at least a bit. yet to see how much.15:59
alteregoexport; dpkg --force -i qt-components_1.2~git20111102-2_armel.deb16:00
gridjszapi: If the community repository is up, we could also create a generic accounts qml plugin so that someone who wants to create a ui only needs to supply .qml files16:00
kirmanow it keeps cycling the "working" indicator, for many minutes already. wonder what's going on...16:01
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DocScrutinizerkirma: setup16:08
DocScrutinizeror rather formatting/flashing the bigger chunks of eMMC16:08
DocScrutinizerI'd not mess with it for at least 30 min - though I never seen this on N9(50) with my ~2 flashings so far16:09
DocScrutinizer(note that my prev posts were mere guesswork about what's going on)16:11
fluxis there such a thing as a gift card to ovi store?16:13
Corsacbtw, besides 'ip' in terminal, is there a way to know the current ip address?16:14
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RST38hmoo, rm_you16:15
qronicwell, I've tried several times, cleaned /var/cache/apt/archives/ - nada. I'll wait for firmware&flasher stand-alone16:15
rm_workmoo RST38h16:16
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kirmahmmh. I suppose the flasher image was PR1.0. now fetching updates again...16:16
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fluxheh, ovi store says to me "Hello, Anonymous" after signing in, I guess they figured my secret identity..16:18
sandst1kirma: yep. same here16:19
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kirmaI get the feeling the PR1.1 update fails *again* for me... soon16:25
kirmastuck on 0%16:25
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javispedroCorsac, one thing re your open kernel thing, have you tried doing flasher -k zImage-.... -l -b ?16:28
javispedroCorsac, instead of -l -b -k zImage-... as you do now?16:28
sandst1kirma: did you do a cold flash..?16:28
* javispedro fails to remember if the order of args in flasher is important16:29
kirmano, but non-cold flash did recover the device into otherwise reasonable state16:29
kirmamaybe I'll copy the damn backup now and cold flash it16:29
sandst1kirma: i first did a non-cold flash, and upgrade failed (stuck on 0%), after a cold-flash it worked16:29
sandst1javispedro: not important16:29
kirmathe positive side is that backups are still there16:30
sandst1kirma: yeap. it's not touching the emmc at all16:30
kirmawhere those backups are? accessible in usb storage mode or not?16:31
petterifor me it stood about 15 minutes in 0%16:31
sandst1kirma: /home/user/MyDocs/.backups16:32
kirma... aand cold-flashing after backup.16:37
DocScrutinizercoldflash is useless16:37
DocScrutinizerfor your problem at least16:37
kirmaehm hm16:37
javispedrohas anyone seen a notification appearing on the lock screen, but then going into the messages/phonelog application and the message/missed call NOT being there?16:37
kirmaDocScrutinizer: sandst1 has different experience. well, let's see.16:38
Corsacjavispedro: let me check16:38
Corsacjavispedro: yes16:38
Corsac(for the flasher thing, not for the notification)16:39
DocScrutinizercoldflash simply means it's not using the device NOLO but rather loads an auxiliary NOLO to RAM of device and executes that one to flasg a new NOLO to device16:39
Corsacjavispedro: I'll try the kernel flash once updated to PR1.1 too16:39
javispedroby then it'll surely not work16:39
Corsacjavispedro: but are you aware to successful kernel flashs to N9?16:39
javispedroCorsac, you have several on the same thread16:39
Corsacwell, the kernels source are identical16:39
Corsac(at least beta2/beta3)16:39
javispedroLOCALVERSION differs ;P16:40
qronicupdate goes like this:16:40
qronic15882 root     sh -c /usr/bin/aegis-origin '/var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb'16:40
qronic15883 root     /usr/bin/aegis-origin /var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb16:40
qronic15884 root     sh -c aegis-deb-release /var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb16:40
qronic15885 root     aegis-deb-release /var/cache/apt/archives/meegofeedback-pulseaudio_0.7.4-5+0m6_armel.deb16:40
Corsacjavispedro: hmmh16:40
qronicit install apps but % is 016:40
Corsacjavispedro: the debian versions were the same :/16:40
javispedrothey are not16:40
javispedroyou have a N9?16:40
qronicno logs so far found, /var/log/apt/term.log has nothing about this16:40
Corsacjavispedro: I mean vs
qronicboom, failed16:41
javispedroCorsac, "20113701" here16:41
MohammadAGoh hey, Nokia didn't take javispedro after all16:41
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: eh?16:42
Corsacjavispedro: on your N9 or on the website?16:42
DocScrutinizerand hi116:42
javispedroCorsac, on my PR1.1 N95016:42
javispedroCorsac, seemingly they've just copied beta2 folder16:42
javispedroCorsac, maybe they're still uploading16:42
CorsacI think I'll find the GPL contact addres if there's any and ask for it, once upgraded :)16:43
DocScrutinizerX-Fade said "still uploading" - for the SDK though iirc16:43
Corsacha. thanks16:43
CorsacI'm still a bit puzzled to that beta-naming, but hey :)16:43
Corsacjavispedro: btw, on your n950, does accli -I returns “open mode” with a vanilla kernel?16:45
Corsacjavispedro: I'm still puzzled about the signed module loading though16:52
Corsacjavispedro: aiui from the thread, just rebuilding the kernel should just work, no need to disable aegis or so16:53
javispedroCorsac, and it does16:53
javispedroCorsac, the modules don't change, so the checksums match.16:53
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Corsacyeah, but confused me16:54
DocScrutinizerthe funny part was the missing warning on N916:54
Corsacespecially since that's where you have a warranty to void :)16:55
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: seems you missed 3 posts16:56
djszapiaheinecke: do you have libkdeedu packaged for harmattan ?16:56
aheineckedjszapi: no16:57
sandst1so. root ssh is disabled. ssh developer@<ip> works, devel-su doesn't work, nor with the pwd i had, neither with 'rootme'. any ideas..?16:57
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aheineckedjszapi: but i think it was packaged for fremantle i belive someone had marble running on an n90016:57
djszapiaheinecke: marble used pure Qt on mobile.16:58
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aheineckeah ok16:58
djszapibut for kanagram, I need it :/16:58
sandst1you people still have devel-su working after pr 1.1?17:00
jonnisandst1: works for me atleast17:00
djszapiso what happened with this repository ?
DocScrutinizerjonni: sshhh17:00
javispedroCorsac, as I've said, you void the warranty by doing _anything_17:00
Corsacyeah, but there's no warranty on n950, is there?17:01
javispedroCorsac, that includes booting a kernel you built yourself using the same config and sources.17:01
Corsacso it's funny that a “warranty voided” warning is displayed on n950 and not on n917:01
djszapiit is on N9 too17:01
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javispedrodjszapi, for some reason it is not shown on some retail N9s17:02
sandst1DocScrutinizer: thanks17:02
djszapiI know the reason, but cannot really talk about it17:02
javispedrobut I guess that'd be swiftly fixed in the next PR.17:02
sandst1jonni: ok. hmm..17:03
kirmaheh. finally it's upgrading...17:03
kirmaI wonder what config file is exactly the cause for this. maybe some extra repo?17:04
djszapianybody willing to help with packaging ?17:04
kirma(this time I didn't recover anything from backup image before upgrade... and of course I should have done that after first reflash already)17:04
sandst1kirma: could be. my cold flashing deduction wasn't exactly waterproof :)17:04
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djszapiaheinecke: helping with packaging some dependency for kdeeud ? :)17:05
ArkanoiD_hmm, for some unknown reason "swipe down to close" gesture became extremely unreliable on my phone17:05
ArkanoiD_it works as tap to a random place on screen17:05
ArkanoiD_*very* annoying17:05
SpeedEvilArkanoiD_: you know about portrait apps?17:05
SpeedEvilor landscape ones17:05
aheineckedjszapi: sorry working atm, what do you need packaged?17:05
SpeedEvilIt's a swipe down in their orientation.17:05
javispedroon my N950 since PR1.1 it seems to follow the _real_ orientation instead of the current window one17:05
javispedroso even on portrait only apps you have to swipe "sideways"17:06
djszapiaheinecke: just look at the kdeedu packages, and everything which is missing17:06
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: seen sth like that as well here17:06
DocScrutinizeron N917:07
DocScrutinizerwas somewhat confusing and not exactly reproducable iirc17:07
javispedroit is fully reproduceable here17:08
javispedrowith twitter app for ex.17:08
javispedroscrap that.17:08
javispedrowith the clock app for ex, try to close it.17:08
javispedroyou have to swipe from the "real" top edge instead of the current window's top edge. So if you hold the device in landscape, you have to swipe "sideways"17:09
DocScrutinizerN9 says "remaining standby time: 17 days"17:10
DocScrutinizerAMOLED is *nice*, in some respects17:10
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: yup17:12
fralsyeah whats considered "top" was argued quite a bit...17:12
fralssomeone probably had reason for making it not "whever the the application layout says top is" but... yeah17:13
Corsacjavispedro: hmhm, I seem to be able to boot sashz kernel (though I don't have CAP::dac_override)17:13
djszapiaheinecke: -> There must be kde edu packages somewhere.17:14
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aheineckedjszapi: found something
Corsacjavispedro: ok in fact, -b doesn't seem enough (or I'm just dumb)17:18
djszapiaheinecke: that is just marble.17:18
Corsacjavispedro: I flash my kernel, it boots, then stops to “charging” icon, then if I ask to boot, it's indeed my kernel17:19
Corsac(though, here, the device rebooted itself after some time :/)17:19
deramhardware watchdog? those reset the chip if software does not request not to in time17:22
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griWhen I change the language on the N9 it reboots without asking for my PIN - is the "session" active as long as there's power is on the sim card?17:24
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faenilstill no pr1.1 :(17:25
gri(ignore last "is")17:25
faenilo/ gri17:25
grifaenil: You got pr 1.1 on your n950 :)17:25
faenilbut n950 is my dev device :P It's not starting atm, have a broken nemo image on it :P17:25
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jabisPR 1.1 - there nao where is the image -.-17:29
DocScrutinizergri: I seem to have witnessed even ssh wifi logins to survive a "reboot" which was actually just a initstate switch to act_dead aka charging17:29
DocScrutinizersth like that17:29
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derampin query is done by sim-card, so if the sim thinks phone has been on all the time, there is no reason to ask it again17:30
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npmdoes this n9 update ( ) also run on n950?17:36
javispedroyou willing to sacrifice a n950 to test? :D17:37
Corsacjavispedro: btw, do you know if there's a way to rebuild kernel using direct cross compile?17:38
npmat some point i need to upgrade it, but i've been focusing on getting out in record time17:38
npmnow i  guess i have to respond to those that don't understand release early and release often and say "fredericobsantos on a Nokia N9 1 day ago Has potential but right now its too overly complex for something that should simplify your life." <-- dude, get an iphone :-)17:40
javispedroCorsac, sure, you are cross compiling when using scratchbox =)17:40
Corsacyeah, but scratchbox is a pain, and it's a bit slow because it uses cpu transparency through qemu17:41
javispedrothat's not entirely true -- it's cross compiling17:42
Corsacso the gcc binaries are native ones, not armel ones?17:42
qronicguys, deleted repos, apt-get update, reset, and updates goes!!17:42
javispedroit's using qemu to run a few binaries that generate some source in the kernel17:42
javispedroCorsac, yes.17:42
Corsacok, thanks :)17:43
npmi'm not sure steve jobs would have allowed siri to do this :-)
javispedronpm, I had quite a lot of fun trying to get sphinx to recognize a single word :)17:45
griqronic: That's why my n9 has a 404 when doing apt-get update?17:45
qronicI deleted not all repos17:45
griPackages is 40417:45
griall others not17:45
qronicbut only those that I've added: unofficial17:45
qronicso there just 2 files aegis**** oso.bin or whatever17:46
npmjavispedro: that's why you shold try out voicetogoog.... whenever it misunderstands things it ends up being the most poetic combination of #trending babble , plus whatever google seems to be fishing off of porn sites....17:47
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npmalthough when you speak clearly and there's not a lot of background noise, it is very effective17:47
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npmbut in a car, with the windows open, pure cyber poetry17:48
faenilgri: let me know if you get it to update ;)17:49
javispedronpm, btw, I write a Maliit input plugin to add dictation support to all harmattan apps using pocketsphinx17:49
griqronic: you did not do anything to these, right? :)17:50
javispedronpm, sphinx seems to be rather useless here but maybe google's service is more accurate and you might be interested17:50
qronicgri: btw, I've also activated flight-mode b4 running update and turned wi-fi on17:50
javispedro(I'm personally not happy with sending my voice to google though :P )17:50
snowponglooking into aegis stuff, is it so that manifest.aegis is auto-copied by Creator to myapp.aegis when doing a build, and therefore I should edit manifest.aegis and not into myapp.aegis directly? ....17:50
qronicfri: correct17:50
qronicgri: correct17:50
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npmjavispedro: i will soon have sourcecode, it would be very interesting to to have an alternate "backend" for voicetogoog for when offline17:50
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javispedronpm, I'm thinking the opposite; using google as a backend for a maliit dictation plugin17:51
npmthen just hit the "(re)transcribe selection(s)" menu command on the ones that sphinx didn't get17:51
qronicgri: I've actually checked my /etc/apt/sources.conf.d folder when deleted unofficial repos17:52
npmjavispedro: well i'll publish source soon and then you can grab my QML/C++ for talking to google17:52
griqronic: Well ok, I don't have any unofficial repos on the N9 - that's why I wonder it's getting 40417:52
javispedronpm, ah, nice17:52
ieatlint40-4 is definitely better, but can't get wifi hotspot app to work on n9 now :(17:53
npmi've been planning on repackaging it in some way so it can be made available with a "microphone button" on a webkit searchbar or the platform QML vkb17:53
qronicgri: if it don't work then I would suggest reboot/try tomorrow/try again, if you don't want to make hard reset17:53
javispedronpm, by a "maliit plugin" I mean that, an alternate vkb that you can swipe (as you can do with swype on pr1.1)17:54
faenilI hope they have not screwed kinetic scrolling in n9 pr1.117:54
faenilas they have done with n950 pr 1.117:54
npmand behind the scenes, it could still be writing the voicetogoog sqlite database entries for voice entries, so you could have a history of what voice input you didn, and what command it launched17:54
npmif anybody has suggestios on inplementing the "what command it launched" part....17:55
ieatlintfaenil: i've not noticed a broken kinetic scrolling on either 39-4 or 40-4.. how do you mean?17:55
faenilwell it's handled differently...worse imho17:55
faeniland there is some bug17:55
ieatlintalso, in my limited observations, i see no differences between 39-4 and 40-4, so if there's any difference at all, must be small bug fixes17:55
faenilwhen swiping through the homescreens17:55
faenilif you do it fast17:56
faenilthe one in pr1.1 is less responsive, and gives more of a "fluid" effect...17:56
javispedronpm, either way, interesting app you have there :)17:56
npm^^ re "what command it launched' is there a way to find out what the current "document" URL, email message id, or folder etc you're looking at on harmattan?17:56
faenilit's a choice, a bad one imho...apart from that little bug17:56
npmjavispedro: thanks... i could use some help... then again, i need to get the damn source out so that i can take someone up on their offer to port to symbian17:57
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grifaenil: The worst thing in 1.1 is: The twitter client's sectionscroller seems to slow down the whole ui when scrolling :)17:58
npmhm, interesting, javispedro ... i saw the "Meego IM Framework" and thought it was more for text messaging17:59
npmwhat makes a lot of sense is to use voice for inputting chinese.17:59
faenilgri: I still wonder why facebook and twitter clients lag so much ...17:59
npmthe only problem -- someone please explain cuz i thought n9 available in china -- is china is the one country that voicetogoog has not been downloaded in18:00
faeniland phonebook too...18:00
faenilI mean, come on...:(18:00
faeniland another BIG question I'd like to ask is18:00
npmis nokia store available in china? or is google voice input blocked ? (i thought it wasn't)18:00
faenilWhy does everything goes down to 10-5fps when the notification bar is open??18:00
javispedrobecause it starts compositing18:01
javispedrosame as if you hit the volume buttons18:01
faenilthat REALLY sucks...18:01
faenilI don't think that's the only possible way to do that18:01
faenilI just don't believe that...18:02
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grifaenil: Saw the twitter client of a friend on htc sense today ... harmattan is much faster and he's jealous :P18:02
javispedrofaenil, I don't have an iPhone or Android device to check, but I know the exact same thing happens on webOS for example.18:03
faenilgri: wow, guess who coded that twitter then :)18:03
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qronicupdated, hooray!18:03
faeniljavispedro: this is really disappointing...18:03
javispedrofaenil, it also happens when you start swiping18:03
faenilwhat do you mean?18:03
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javispedrothe moment the window is slightly offsetted when the swipe animation starts, compositor also turns on18:04
javispedrothus fps reduced18:04
faenilyeah, but that's not as noticeable18:04
npmthe compositing issue doesn't seem to be happening in
faenilI mean, if you're doing something, and you receive an sms,... you understand it because everything starts lagging18:05
javispedrofaenil, then you are seeing a different problem I guess.18:05
npmwhen diddling the volume control while playing video18:05
faenil...I haven't seen this on other platforms,notifications don't cause lags..18:05
npmlemme try w/ something more "framy"18:05
javispedronpm, it is not an "issue", it's just reduced framerate. Same thing happens on the N900.18:05
faeniljavispedro: I think we're talking about the same thing :)18:06
npmoh is see it18:06
npmit seems most;ly to happen at startup as it gets rescaled18:06
npmand then if you leave it up it restabilizes18:07
npm(tests w/ )18:07
faeniljavispedro: if you scroll in phonebook and open notification bar, you see that the framerate is always reduced not only in the moment you open the bar18:08
javispedrowell opening the notification area seems to use some lots of CPU early on18:09
npmoh yeah flickable is affected a lot worse than video18:10
faenilis the notification bar drawn by the raster engine?18:10
javispedroI guess that could be fixable, the rest probably not.18:10
javispedroeither way, I guess you should be thankful scrolling is smooth at all.18:10
grinpm: "Video not available in your country. It violates GEMA's rights."18:10
faenilexcept it's not :D18:10
grigermany sucks :/18:11
npmsorry for the tease. i guess they don't want you to see what it looks like in LA18:11
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faeniljavispedro: why can't that be fixed?18:12
faenilI mean flickable elements are very all depends and what you put in them,...18:13
npmgri: i assure you the US sucks more :-)18:13
grinpm: Ok, then youtube for germans suck because you're not allowed to watch music videos (not their fault)18:14
npmall music videos?18:14
grinot all, but many18:14
grieven if the artist wants to publish it :)18:15
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: how did you solve the context problem in your maliit plugin?18:20
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jabisf*ng updater fails all the time18:22
DocScrutinizeryou'd want to use specific dictionaries depending on context aka "where's the focus? what apps are running in background?"18:23
Venemohi guys18:24
DocScrutinizerhi Venemo18:25
Venemohey DocScrutinizer, how're you?18:25
Corsacjavispedro: uh, I think I might do something weird, did you experience at one point a "scripts/basic/fixdeps: No such file or directory" when building the kernel? (tried on a fresh scratchbox, apt-get source kernel / dpkg-buildpackage -us -uc)18:26
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npmgri... ok that does suck...18:27
javispedrofaenil, because when compositing, there's an extra rasterization, so it will by definition be always slower than non-compositing18:27
javispedroDocScrutinizer, remember I only do dictation, so I use a generic dictation dictionary.18:28
npmre updating N950:
faenilthat's ok...but so from 60 to 10...18:28
javispedroCorsac, no...18:28
javispedrofaenil, in truth it's like half the framerate.18:28
faenilwhaat :O18:28
faenilso it's usually scrolling at like 24fps?18:28
faenilthat doesn't seem like it :O18:28
npmso what does the author of mean by "had to wipe the device clean" before succeeding18:29
X-FadeHe used some windex and a cotton cloth?18:29
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X-FadeThat must be it :)18:29
* javispedro looks at his n950 and wishes he had windex and cotton around18:30
npmoh misunderstood.... the author talking about same problem on n9 as n950 update, not using n9 update on n95018:30
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Corsacjavispedro: damn, how did I manage to do that ¬¬18:30
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Venemonpm, reflash?18:31
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VenemoDocScrutinizer, yeah, I'm tired too18:31
jabisonly thing OTA did before failing was turn of sshd - f*ing brilliant18:31
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npmjavispedro: if you do a lot of dictation, i'd love to get some feedback on how voicetogoog works for you in spanish18:32
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npmVenemo: so if i'm going to reflash my n950 is still the thing to use, or one of the n9 updates??18:33
Venemonpm, I'm not sure, but I do think that 39-5 is still the latest software for da N95018:33
berndhs39-5 seems to break some things18:34
Venemoberndhs, for example?18:34
javispedrogoogle talk!18:34
berndhsin my case, twitter and Ovi store18:34
berndhsbreaking their own store is particularly alarming :)18:35
jonniusually its ssu update which breaks things and using flasher to flash works better.18:35
Corsacjavispedro: ah, understood, the binary is native and it somehow doesn't find the transparency setting or so18:35
DocScrutinizerso you all updated your N9s to a FW rev that, when MALF or bootlooping, is impossible to "unbrick"? Or did somebody check if you could use the procedure and files as of to flash this 40-4 to DFL61_HARMATTAN_10.2011.34-1 ?  Or is there even a 40-4 image available meanwhile?18:35
berndhsI used the flasher from the download link in the topic18:35
CorsacDocScrutinizer: I didn't upgraded yet :)18:36
DocScrutinizerberndhs: on N9?18:37
DocScrutinizerooh, sorry18:37
Venemoberndhs, it didn't break anything for me.18:37
berndhsVenemo: that's nice18:38
Venemobut generally the old truth is still true, you're better off with reflashing than with OTA.18:38
Venemoberndhs, only thing that wasn't very good about my 39-5 OTA is that I needed to reinstall a bunch of packages to get the developer mode working properly.18:38
DocScrutinizerso *where* to get a 40-4 image?18:38
Venemois there 40-4? for N950? :O wow18:39
DocScrutinizerno, for N9!18:39
qronicyou can download all the packages that come in OTA update18:39
Venemowho cares about N9?18:39
qronicsomebody zipped them18:39
berndhsVenemo: yes the re-enable of developer has to be done 1 package at a time, takes a while18:39
Venemoberndhs, well it worked for me to reinstall a couple of them at once. of course I needed a reboot.18:39
jabisI care about N9 goddamnit -.-18:40
berndhsI care about N9, about hunger in Africa, wars in the middle east,...18:41
Venemowell ok, I was just being jealous.18:41
psycho_oreosjealous when you have N950?18:41
jabisI care that the OTA failed and shat bricks on sshd18:41
berndhsyeah that's a negative thing18:42
Corsacjavispedro: fwiw, having both sbox and qemu-user-static installed was the problem18:42
jabisnow I'm having an interesting looping-issue with 3G & WLAN battling over who's to connect18:42
qronichow did they disabled root ssh account?18:43
qronicPermitRottLogin set to yes and still...18:43
faenilhave you tried with root@
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qronicroot@'s password:18:44
qronicPermission denied, please try again.18:44
djszapiqronic: very easily.18:45
qronicAllowUsers *@ *@ *@ *@
qronicwhich is ok18:45
djszapiqronic: root ssh makes zero sense18:45
macmaNgeez people18:45
qronicI like it, I can do more things being root than user without devel-su18:45
macmaNwhy are you not making life easier for yourself, enable user@ ssh18:45
djszapiqronic: no, you are not root18:45
djszapiyou are developer ..18:45
djszapido not mix up the bits.18:46
qronicok, b4 PR1.1 id told me uid=0(root), that's it, now it can't be achieved ithout devel-su18:46
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qronicI guess they patched sshd code to deny root logins18:46
djszapino, we did not.18:47
qronicok, would you mind sharing how it's done?18:47
jabisI'm now no-one as I can't do jackshit - N9 pushes me to flight mode and WLAN showing 0 bars and 3G won't connect either \o/ whoo-fucking-ray18:47
macmaNmy main gripe right now is how gps apps like foursquare cant get position when background connections are turned off18:47
djszapiit is actually very simple generic linux skill18:47
qronicemm, I have generic skills )18:48
qronickey auth would work?18:48
macmaNqronic: of course18:48
qronicwith root account?18:48
fralsit adds disable root login flag in the start up script18:48
fralsunless you have rdc, which you dont18:48
macmaNboth with root and user18:48
qronic<macmaN>, thanks18:48
jabisI'm having Updating: 0% until fails and reboot is needed -.- \o/ resetting the phone, to see wtf is up18:49
qronicthough, there's "user" user enabling howto18:49
qronic<frals>: could you point at that script?18:50
djszapiqronic: you cannot modify startup scripts anyway18:51
qronicthat's ok, just curious18:51
fralsqronic: i think aegis is enforcing some retarded policy so its gonna bite you in the ass if you mess with it18:51
draglyis there a way to copy/paste in the terminal on N9 or N950 yet?18:51
fralswhy is beyond me, but thats policy for you18:51
infobotmay-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && exit; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }18:51
djszapifrals: aegis does not decide policies18:52
snowpongsome example for postrm scripts for Harmattan?18:52
djszapiI do not seriously believe it you have been a platform developer for so long and do not know ...18:52
djszapisnowpong: what do you mean ? It is upstream debian18:52
jabisI did see that "your phone could be unusable even for emergency calls upon starting the update" but bricking my network connectivity alltogether when it fails is what makes this OTA a really crappy thing18:52
fralsyes, someone is deciding retarded policy and aegis is enforcing it :)18:52
qronicbtw, wMarkku Kylänpää wrote whole aegis kernel stuff, pretty neat code18:53
djszapiqronic: no, he did not18:53
snowpongdjszapi: OK, I was guessting they might have some templates ready18:53
djszapisnowpong: debian maintainers guide18:53
djszapiqronic: I was also writing kernel stuff, and also other colleagues of mine18:53
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fralsqronic: /etc/init/ssh.conf18:53
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djszapiMarkku K. has nothing to do with the runtime policy fw for instance18:53
qronic<djszapi>, sorry than, just seen his credits in the code18:53
qronic<frals>: thank you, sir18:54
fralsqronic: unfortunately its on aegis shitlist, so dont mess with it18:54
djszapissh.conf is not an aegis file ...18:54
djszapithat is an upstart job, oh my god seriously18:54
djszapiif a platform developer does not know what can we expect from externals ...18:54
fralsgrep ssh.conf /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist18:55
fralsS 15 H 40 268648a5c1d4eb2bf2ced2ed79780515da6e5bae A 0 0 33188 P 15 system-services R 17 etc/init/ssh.conf18:55
fralsis what i meant with "its on aegis shitlist"18:55
fralsgoing by the may-I-edit alias DocScrutinizer kindly provided18:55
fralsis this not correct djszapi?18:55
djszapiI think I ignore you, I do not need this swearing18:55
qronic<djszapi>: could you please point when the SEAL bit is written into ..../validator/enabled? If that's your expertise area18:56
fralsam i completely mistaken in what i said or is someone just having PMS?18:56
djszapifrals: it is not just about your technically incorrectness18:58
djszapiit is also about the fact we aegis developers do not like reading things like "shitlist"18:58
djszapiI doubt anybody would like. I thought a platform developer is a bit more mature than a child.18:58
djszapiyou have this style internally too unfortunately.18:59
DocScrutinizerfrals: yoh19:00
DocScrutinizerfrals: is on aegis shitlist may look like is an aegis shitlist, when some myopia comes to the game19:01
fralsdjszapi: s/shit/hit/ then, makes you happy?19:01
djszapimy ignore makes, thanks.19:02
Robot101(speaking of acting like a child?)19:02
fralsshit happens i guess19:02
DocScrutinizermy ignore list makes this convo especially funny19:03
* GeneralAntilles chuckles.19:04
GeneralAntillesdjszapi, this is the wrong channel to shit on frals in. :P19:04
jabiswhat's with them lists x)19:04
jabiskk enabling the user with passwd -u user got me back my ssh - now to dig the OTA packages - I want to see what's borken - why ain't it updating19:05
jabisbtw. resetting the phone and starting the OTA again didn't halp19:06
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DocScrutinizerjabis: the hashreflist is a list of files that you don't wanna touch unless you want to reflash due to MALF19:07
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qronicin PR1.1 for N9 when posting the picture in twitter, the message is broken for non-latin locales19:07
jabisDocScrutinizer: I'm not touching refhashlist - I want to _see_ which of the packages fail19:09
DocScrutinizernobody talked about touching hashreflist19:09
jabisDocScrutinizer: Updating fails - and everything gets left like after a nuclear war ain't my perception of handy new tools for N9 x)19:10
jabisoh I misread - but why did you point me to hashreflist to begin with x)19:10
DocScrutinizer[2011-11-08 18:04:27] <jabis> what's with them lists x)19:11
jabisDocScrutinizer: I was referring to shit/hit/ignorelists - not about hashreflist  ;)19:11
DocScrutinizerhashreflist = shitlist19:12
DocScrutinizer[2011-11-08 17:54:12] <frals> qronic: unfortunately its on aegis shitlist, so dont mess with it19:12
jabisfor me a shitlist is something else :D19:12
jabisbut nvm - can someone throw a link where I could dl the OTA packages19:13
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griWas anyone able to update to 1.1.4 QtSDK? Mine always fails with downloading the harmattan documentation19:17
berndhsI can do ping but not ping6 from devel-su, why would that be ?19:18
griIgnore that, I was trying the last 2 hours to update and when I write on irc, it works :P19:18
npmDocScrutinizer: does that 'hashreflist' included QML files of apps installed from nokia store?19:22
djszapinpm you can very easily check it19:23
npmi.e. if one modifies an app's qml in /opt/*/qml/*/*.qml will the device brick?19:23
npmwhere is that file? or how to checkl19:23
djszapiread above like 30 lines19:23
npmwell the last person that spoke about qml above was me...19:24
npmoh the 'may-i-edit' thing?19:25
faenilgri: mine's still trying to download Harmattan Emulator...19:25
djszapinpm: seriously, it is a simple grep for that file ...19:25
grifaenil: qt for android (necessitas sdk) also does not install for me, like the n9 update :P19:26
djszapinpm: though, it is /etc/refhashlist19:26
npmso the only thing in the file is the binary "voicetogoog R 31 opt/voicetogoog/bin/voicetogoog"19:26
djszapiso frals was completely incorrect technically19:27
faenilgri: I have to get a working hello world app with qt on android by next monday :D19:27
npmcorrectness is overrated19:27
djszapifaenil: 2 minutes19:28
djszapiactually you can just download the example19:28
faenildjszapi: sure ;) I was told nothing worked in the session at devdays :D19:28
djszapifaenil: I have a qt application for Android. I should upload to androidmarket19:28
faenildo you know if there's any problem with opengl?19:29
djszapialso, I am not sure which devdays that could be19:29
gridjszapi: Did you try the alpha 3 of necessitas which was released today?19:29
faenilI should port a mesh viewer as my thesis19:29
griI'd be interested if it works for anyone else19:29
djszapigri: I build it myself daily anyways :)19:29
djszapifrom the kde repository19:29
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grihmm that's the other way :)19:29
djszapifaenil: I think you misunderstood or talked to the wrong person. They were actually very impressive19:30
djszapiall the guys I talked to19:30
faenilgri was ther eI think :D19:30
npmso how much of qt-mobility is available in necessitas alpha 3?19:30
djszapinpm: please check out the presentation ...19:30
faenilanyway, do you know anything about my question? :)19:30
djszapithese things are really written there.19:30
djszapiqt android presentation at dev days. Shall I make you the google part ?19:31
fralscat /etc/refhashlist19:31
faenildamn it qtsdk updater is not downloading anything, that's why it's stuck :( again :(19:31
fralsis that just for me?19:31
jabis here's what's happening on OTA if anyone want's to have a looksie19:31
grifaenil: mine worked now19:32
faenilgri: ;) do you know anything about opengl on qt android? is it completely ok?19:32
grifaenil: as of alpha 3 it should work out of the box19:32
faenilgri: ok thanks...19:32
djszapinpm: just for you ...
jabison syslog that is - kernel throws up over wlan but is still apparently needing something from the network19:33
faenilgri: so I'm lucky :)19:34
faenilhope it works correctly :D19:34
grifaenil: You could try the installer19:34
griif you're on linux19:34
faenilnot atm...19:34
faeniland got to finish that damn uni project I have before starting with the thesis19:35
faenilthe one I wanted to show you at dev days19:35
faenilstill can't get out of the raypicking problem19:35
grimy uni projects consist of "bit shift rgb pixels" :D *shame*19:35
djszapithe only problem with my qt app on android and market, I need to pay 25 EUR19:36
djszapiif I am not mistaken.19:36
djszapito be able to upload.19:36
gridjszapi: $25 != 25 €19:36
faenilgri: I'm not supposed to implement raypicking by myselft, but that's what I'm doing...19:37
faenilis there anyone in here which knows about 3d graphics?19:37
faenilI really need help, need to sort this out...19:37
djszapigri: yeah, I find it a bit amusing.19:38
Arkenoiavg idle consumption 290mA <- WTF?19:38
djszapifaenil: wrong channel, qt-3d19:38
djszapior opengl19:38
faenildjszapi: yeah I know just wanted to know if there was anyone in here...anyway, I'm not using qt-3d19:39
CorsacArkenoi: tracker maybe? :)19:39
djszapifaenil: they /do/ know 3d inside and out19:39
faenildjszapi: I know but since I know people here, I asked here before going there :P19:40
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grifaenil: Don't be so shy ;)19:41
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faenilgri: it's not about that...19:44
faenilproblem is usually none answers...19:44
faenilI've already written there...let's see if anyone comes us up with time/ideas :)19:44
faenilwhile if you know someone he's more keen on helping :)19:44
snowpongseems I got the postrm now working correctly, however now I can't uninstall from the UI, I've got to do it from within Manage Applications ...19:45
djszapifaenil: Sarah Smith answered to me in 2 hours19:45
berndhs39-5 doesn't set the DNS servers from the wifi settings19:45
djszapisnowpong: use the "user" category19:45
djszapiin your control file, and will work oob19:45
djszapifaenil: and Sarah is the leader of the 3d team19:46
snowpongdjszapi: I am asking for user credentials in the aegis (as suggested by some internal OVI QA)19:46
djszapisnowpong: I am not referring to that19:46
snowpongdjszapi: I get that, I will check my control now19:46
djszapiSection: utils -> that needs to be user19:47
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djszapiand even if it comes from unknown origin, package manager will be able to un-install it.19:47
djszapisnowpong: do you remember when I asked about kdelibs for android in Munich ? I am really about to start experimenting :)19:48
djszapisnowpong: also, we discussed this shared package containing also the dynamic qt so libraries. Do you have such a package by off-hand for a sample ?19:49
snowpongdjszapi: yeah I remember the kdelibs question, didn't realize you were the same guy here19:50
snowpongdjszapi: the .so files are part of necessitas if you just want to inspect their deps?19:50
snowpongdjszapi: my controls says: "Section: user/other"19:51
djszapisnowpong: It would be nice to have an example for qt app devs who would like to submit their packages to android market since this dynamic shared library in the same package seems to be the way of proceeding. I might be mistaken, though.19:52
snowpongdjszapi: ah, you mean an example of a complete package with the Qt .so's included - no, no such thing exists atm, not well documented and public at least19:53
* snowpong haven't had time to try that yet, but others have when reading the list19:54
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djszapifaenil: back to your question, one guy has been working on the opengl support, and getting fine19:57
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djszapifaenil: pretty sad, you missed the opengl examples running on the galaxy device. It has been super impressive to me.19:58
faenildjszapi: yeah I was in another session..19:58
snowpongfaenil: djszapi: picture of opengl es backend rendering on Galaxy S220:00
snowpongit was Thomas S. who held the talk20:00
jabiswhere does OTA files get stored - I'm quite confident it's the download that failed20:00
jabisI'm seeing only 315kb downloaded by the phone20:00
jabisas it's supposed to be ~220 megs20:01
djszapisnowpong: yep, from Munich, Nokia20:01
snowpongdjszapi: jupp20:01
djszapiwe had a gluon sprint there with them before the qt dev days, cool guys :)20:01
snowpongand easy to spot ;)20:02
djszapihehehe :)20:02
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Venemosnowpong, does that stuff run on Android?20:12
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snowpongVenemo: what stuff? that is a screenshot showing realtime HDMI output from an android device20:16
snowpong(the image)20:16
Venemosnowpong, yeah, I'm referring to the image20:17
Venemosnowpong, so Qt now runs on Android? that's nice :)20:17
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snowpongVenemo: that's ages ago, you can now even publish Qt apps in the Android Market -  it still needs lots of polish, a promise of BIC etc. before it's really good20:19
Arkenoimy phone is doing "something"20:20
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Arkenoinot shown with top20:20
Arkenoibut draining battery and being sloooow20:21
Arkenoilikely to be some MfE glitch :-/20:21
faenilsnowpong: thanks :)20:24
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Venemosnowpong, hmm, that is lovely20:25
Venemosnowpong, can that Android version of Qt display QML with sane performance?20:25
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snowpongVenemo: yeah, alpha2 uses raster backend so it's good on mid/high-end devices, I'm not sure if latest alpha3 uses opengl out-of-the-box so I haven't tried speed of that atm20:27
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snowpongVenemo: try out for yourself -!/snowpong/status/13357867015249510420:27
faenilsnowpong: it of
snowpongfaenil: indeed, cool :D20:28
snowpongfaenil: will test soon, gotta update my talk for devdays SF :D20:28
faenilgood luck! :)20:28
Venemosnowpong, I don't have an Android device, neither do I have the Android SDK :S20:28
faenilI'll start using android qt next week :)20:28
faenilsame here XD20:29
Venemobut I intend to borrow a device for a week or two to port my app and release to the Android market :)20:29
snowpongVenemo: you can use the emulator, and the Necessitas/Qt SDK linked there includes _all_ software needed both AndroidSDK and QtSDK + Creator20:29
Venemosnowpong, so it integrates with Qt Creator too?20:29
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snowpongVenemo: yes, you basically get a new Target: Android when creating a new project20:30
Arkenoinow it is tracker-store again20:30
Venemosnowpong, that is fucking awesome :)20:30
snowpongVenemo: tell me about it! ;D20:30
faenilanyone with Norway product code who got n9 update?20:30
Venemosnowpong, Qt Creator integration means that I won't have to do any voodoo when developing for Android :)20:31
snowpongfaenil: how do I know product code, I've upgraded but I might have gotten my phone through less normal connections20:31
faenilI got it at qt dev days20:31
faenilanyway, the product code is on the back of the simholder20:31
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faenilor, you can read it by scanning the barcode on Settings -> Info about product20:31
faenil(how gay is that?)20:31
grifaenil: The n9s from devdays had a german power plug, so they are all german version? :)20:32
w00tgri: germany uses the same plug as the rest of europe... :)20:32
faenilgri: mine has norway product code20:32
griw00t: I was told Italy has different ones but ok20:32
snowpongVenemo: here is a step-by-step guide from zero-to-hero with Qt and Android -
snowpongVenemo: it's a bit dated since alpha3 but still 80% valid20:33
faenilw00t: main italian plug is different, but we can use german ones too20:33
w00tfaenil: i think you mean to direct that to gri20:33
faenilnope that was to you :) referring to what gri said :D20:33
* Arkenoi killed -9 tracker-store and *magically* everything other worked, including mfe sync that hanged for hours (sic!)20:34
snowpongwhat is the easiest way to install an app on the n9 when you have the .deb file locally, can I do it with a one-liner? I don't want to deploy through Qt Creator as it installs and starts the app as "developer"  not "user" I believe..20:35
jonnidpkg -i file.deb20:36
SpeedEvildpkg -i foo?20:36
snowpongI mean locally on my linux box and I wanna install it (or upgrade) to my USB connected N9, I first gotta scp it?20:36
Venemosnowpong, thank you very much! saved to bookmarks, will return to it in a couple of weeks :)20:36
* snowpong was hoping for a one-liner from pc --> n920:37
snowpongVenemo: excellent, I'll update it once I know whats changed with alpha320:38
Arkenoihmm, in pre-beta2 there was twitter group in contacts. now it is no more and no twitter is associated to contact entries :-/20:39
Meksomething like 'ssh root@phone dpkg -i /dev/stdin < file.deb' might work in theory?20:40
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snowpongMek: I'll just do it in two steps instead I guess, but thanks20:44
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RST38hN950 has got a color LED!20:49
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griwhite is a color?20:51
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rcgRST38h: ?20:55
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Venemosnowpong, I see in your slides that you work for Trolltech21:02
MohammadAGRST38h, ?21:03
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djszapiHi! What happened with this page ?
djszapiwhere is the public repository nowadays ?21:04
X-Fadedjszapi: beta321:04
djszapiwhat do you mean ?21:05
X-Fadebeta3 got released.21:05
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grifaenil: did you upgrade the sdk yet?21:18
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* Corsac updates21:23
Corsacuf, slow server21:23
Corsacor loaded server :)21:23
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CorsacFlash player is required to view release version and list of new features.21:26
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Corsaccan someone with flash comment on what's in  ?21:27
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villagerfor me it says "there are no software updates for this device yet"21:29
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Corsacpfff, it's like 100kB/s21:31
BluesLeecan someone tell me where to find the wifi mac address of my n9?21:31
VenemoBluesLee, Settings/About21:32
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Corsacwhat is the difference between “sync and connect” and “SDK” usb modes?21:36
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djszapiCorsac: SDK is SDK21:40
djszapiyou have the SDK connection tool, developer and everything21:40
Corsacwell, in sync & connect too, it seems21:40
Corsacwell, at least you have the usb0 interface available, with dhcp listening etc.21:41
djszapitrue, that was my impression. This is really weird.21:42
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djszapimaybe tracker is not that silly in SDK mode, I do not know ..21:43
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Corsacwhat does it do in sync & connect?21:48
djszapiwell, months ago, all kind of troubles.21:48
djszapihave not really tried recently, but indexing was screwed up back then21:48
djszapibut this is a silly speculation after all. Need to ask someone authorized.21:51
Corsaccould you ask people authorized to look at bug reports too? :)21:52
djszapiwell, I did send a mail to my colleague about it few minutes ago.21:53
djszapisorry, but what bug. Could you please clarify this post ?21:53
Corsacwell, every bug, in fact21:54
Corsacafaict there's no bug in ASSI state since august21:54
djszapinot gotcha ..21:55
RST38hMohammadAG: On the back of the phone, coupled with the flash, is the bright red LED21:55
RST38hMohammadAG: Which may contain other color LEDs.21:55
RST38hMohammadAG: The question is, how to control it?21:56
SpeedEvilI assume21:56
Corsacdjszapi: “not gotcha”?21:57
SpeedEvilIt's how the n900 worked, and the flashlight app on n950 blocks the camera in the same expected way21:57
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djszapiCorsac: not getting you ..21:57
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RST38hSpeed; Notice that the red led and the flash led are two different animals, even while they are in the same physical unit21:58
djszapiI need to log in and so on. I will not do that for now, sorry21:58
Corsacthe first bug in ASSI state is #364 opened on aug 15, last news from Nokia on aug 1821:58
djszapino clue what ASSI state means.21:59
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Corsacdjszapi: and from looking a few bugs here and there, there no comment from Nokia on any bug more recent21:59
djszapiyou were very lucky to get one before that21:59
berndhswhy do we report bugs if there is no feedback on them ? this isn't a Nokia-specific issue, it is very common22:01
djszapivery simple answer, no resource ?22:01
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djszapias if nobody knew, what happened on the 11th of February...22:02
berndhsI don't believe that in the general case22:02
djszapiI do not care about general case22:02
berndhsif bugs remain "NEW" for several months, the natural assumption is that the report is ignored22:02
djszapiof course, so ... ?22:03
berndhsconsequently the reporter will not bother to report further bugs22:03
djszapiyes, so ... ?22:03
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djszapiI do not understand what you try to get out of this22:03
berndhsand the reputation of the company suffers, as they are seen to not care about the quality of their products22:03
djszapivery childish consequence22:03
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djszapiwould be all kind of worse reputation to not deal with the blocker bugs22:04
Corsacdjszapi: do we piss people off by reporting bugs?22:04
Corsacor are they just ignored22:04
djszapiCorsac: no, we do not even read those22:04
djszapimost of the people including me22:04
djszapihow would you read any of those when you have 550000 other tasks that your boss tells you to do ?22:05
djszapiplease be gentle, we do not do it on wish for having you guys suffer ..22:05
decibyteam i a complete moron if i want to install git and/or mercurial on my n9? and if not, how do i do?22:05
djszapidecibyte: use the community repository ?22:06
jonnimostly the problem is that internal bugzilla on different and we mostly follow that one, havent even heard about developer bugzilla before reading today in irc.22:06
decibytedjszapi: yes please. where do i find it? well... i'll google a bit before asking more stupid questions.22:07
djszapijonni: you have not heard about the public ? LOL22:07
Corsacdjszapi: it might be wise to advise people not to report bug if they intend to have an answer (reporting is ok for other people to read, though)22:07
djszapidecibyte: landing page, read please.22:07
Corsacexcept that the bug tracker is not public22:07
jonniI even think that there is some monkey that copies the public bugs to internal one :)22:07
djszapiCorsac: reporting can help other community people22:07
djszapiif community answers ...22:07
Corsacbut then is not the correct place imho22:08
djszapijonni: have not heard of any22:08
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Corsacand reporting about security issues or stuff inside closed apps won't really do anything22:08
Corsacwell, the community can comment on workaround, but that's all22:08
djszapior just: echo 'deb ./' >>/etc/apt/sources.list.d/nicks.list22:09
djszapiand then apt-get install git/git-core :)22:09
djszapiso simple..22:09
decibytedjszapi: thanks a lot :)22:09
djszapiCorsac: seriously, ask yourself, what is your point ?22:09
Corsacmy point is to have issues fixed22:10
djszapiwe have been doing, so be happy22:10
djszapiand patient22:10
CorsacI try not to report useless stuff, I try to provide information etc.22:10
CorsacI think my bug reports are valuable, at some point22:10
Corsacand I think reading them might not be a waste of time22:11
Corsacand I'm quite sure the other bugs are in the same situation22:11
Corsacthat's all :)22:11
djszapiyes, so ... ?22:11
djszapiI am still not getting the point.22:12
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Corsacok, I give up22:13
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Arkenoiincredible, but seems that it is well-reproducible: killing tracker-store process reliably unfreezes stalled MfE sync :-/22:58
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tommais there any accounts plugin which support msn protocol?23:02
tommaor has anyone package for skype which is in n9?23:02
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rzrtomma: you can join msn network using xmpp23:18
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rzrtomma: I can document more23:18
rzrhi Corsac , booting debian yet ?23:19
rzrdjszapi: hi too , I have a working desktop now23:19
rzrlaptop actually23:19
djszapirzr: nice :)23:20
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rzrjust did upgrade23:20
rzrand installed a couple of apps23:20
rzrgit 1st23:20
* rzr 's laptop : #LenovO ChinA sells OeM !MeeGo !GnU !LinuX #LapTop G470 but mine was w/ “CrimoSoft Win7 Shut up and PaY” edition23:21
henkieHi, i am looking to buy a N9, but I am not sure yet. Is it possible to develop applications (pref. python/qt) for it, or do I need a n950 for this?23:28
djszapirzr willing to package for us again ?23:29
SpeedEvilN9 is quite suited to development.23:29
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SpeedEviln950 was simply a sort-of-similar device that was available in small numbers before retail n9s were available.23:29
SpeedEvilIt's no better to develop with - other than having a keyboard - which isn't actually a benefit.23:30
henkieSpeedEvil, tnx23:30
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henkieI guess that only leaves a functional openvpn-client before I can/will buy one  :)23:32
Chaz6I like the keyboard on the n950 better than the n90023:33
Chaz6I find the n900's keys a bit small23:33
henkiehad to replace my n900 keyboard, most of the markings were gone23:34
henkieN9 just got available for me in holland, but it's a lot of money, so I need to be sure it can replace my n90023:35
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Corsacjavispedro: fwiw, kernel version didn't change after pr1.1 upgrade23:40
javispedromore details..23:41
SpeedEvilI like the keyboard on the n900 much better23:41
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SpeedEvilThe shape of the keys gives a much better feel of where I am.23:42
SpeedEvilI can hit 30wpm on it.23:42
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Corsacso LOCALVERSION didn't change23:46
Corsac(while the package version did)23:46
jabisfuck - camera borken with PR 1.123:50
javispedroCorsac: what do you mean by "package version changed", what is the new one?23:51
jabisalso frontside camera borkd23:52
CorsacI should have backuped dpkg -l before upgrading23:52
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javispedrothis doesn't make much sense23:53
javispedrowhat does uname -v say23:53
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infobotjavispedro meant: what does uname -r say23:53
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javispedroyour update is probably borked or waiting for another reboot.23:54
Corsacuname says
CorsacI already shutdown once, but it doesn't cost much to do it once more :)23:55
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jabismine states exactly the same23:56
Corsacmaybe the kernel wasn't flashed correctly?23:56
jabisAbout product Version: PR1.1 (10.2011.34-1_PR_001)23:57
Corsacha, but that's PR1.023:57
* Corsac is confused23:57
jabisthe PR1.1 and () are extra from before update23:58
Corsacyeah, same here, PR1.1 but 10.2011.34-1_PR_00123:58

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