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| DocScrutinizer | WUT? | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
| Corsac | 39-5? | 00:06 |
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| * DocScrutinizer points Venemo to http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4575&page=14 and waves with a large stick | 00:10 | |
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| Venemo | Corsac, yes, 39-5 | 00:54 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, I used to follow that thread | 00:56 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, what's new? | 00:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing yet, your contribution missing ;-P | 00:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | though starting arbitrary binaries as *user* seems isn't all new | 00:58 |
| Venemo | it was only news for me | 01:00 |
| Venemo | works out of the box if you flash N950 with 39-5 and enable developer mode | 01:01 |
| Venemo | if you updated with ota, you will need to reinstall a bunch of packages and then it'll work too. | 01:01 |
| Venemo | well, I'm only interested in this from app developer point of view, but you can find my info about this here: http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4000 | 01:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | Venemo: thanks for that link | 01:13 |
| SpeedEvil | Venemo: 39.5 is the most recent? | 01:14 |
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| Venemo | SpeedEvil, 39-5 is the most recent afaik. | 01:20 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, see /topic | 01:20 |
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| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, you are welcome :) | 01:32 |
| Venemo | I must go to sleep now. good night :) | 01:33 |
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| SpeedEvil | ah | 01:35 |
| SpeedEvil | thanks ven | 01:35 |
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| DocScrutinizer | >> <KRF> hey guys, i installed the package 'meegotouch-qt-style' this morning, restarted my device and now it's display a "device is malfunctioning, security problem (devicelockd): .../libmeegotouchstyleplugin.so" message on startup. it wants me to re-flash the device. so, how i am supposed to fix this?<< *cough* | 02:38 |
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| wook | hello | 02:54 |
| wook | I was wondering, how to configure .desktop so it can run terminal app with command line parameter | 02:55 |
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| * rzr is finally flashing Linux_OCF_39-5_RM680-RM680-OEM1.bin | 03:04 | |
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| * wook want to flash liinux_ocf too :-O | 03:10 | |
| wook | Where to get it? | 03:11 |
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| rzr | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/ | 03:22 |
| rzr | it's still alive | 03:23 |
| wook | aaaaah, stupid wook....i thought its linux os :D | 03:23 |
| wook | Yes, i flashed yesterday :S | 03:24 |
| rzr | it is | 03:24 |
| rzr | gnu is the os | 03:25 |
| rzr | linux is just the kernel :) | 03:25 |
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| wook | Hehehehe, i thought pure one :) | 03:26 |
| wook | Btw, 3.5mm jack don't work after flashing with 34_2 (as i remember) | 03:27 |
| wook | Beta2 | 03:27 |
| wook | Is this only my case or? | 03:27 |
| rzr | was this reported ? | 03:27 |
| wook | Didn't because its on n9 | 03:28 |
| wook | And didn't knew since yesterday either | 03:28 |
| wook | Seems to me that there's no any voltage on its wires | 03:30 |
| rzr | do u want me to test the headphones ? | 03:31 |
| wook | Sure, if it is not problem :) | 03:32 |
| wook | But, i don't use them much, most of my music is on e7 ;) | 03:32 |
| rzr | i have a e7 too | 03:32 |
| rzr | but i dont use it | 03:32 |
| wook | Really? | 03:33 |
| wook | Send it to me :D | 03:33 |
| wook | LoL | 03:33 |
| wook | I am using it at the moment :) | 03:34 |
| wook | I tweaked it sooo hardly that is faster than any pc or phone i ever used before :) | 03:34 |
| rzr | i launched nfs | 03:36 |
| rzr | i can hear the music in headphones | 03:36 |
| wook | Hmm, then something went wrong with flashing in my case | 03:37 |
| wook | I will reflash it tomorrow :D | 03:37 |
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| wook | Btw, how to config .desktop file so it can run new terminal window with command line parameter? I want to .desktop python :D | 03:39 |
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| wook | Rzt thank you for your help, sleep time here, good night/day, enjoy it ;) | 03:48 |
| wook | *rzr | 03:48 |
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| npm_ | so can one put the n950 into init 3 to do a proper backup of /home/user ? | 07:19 |
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| npm | oh now i'm me | 07:19 |
| psycho_oreos | I could if I had one ;p | 07:27 |
| psycho_oreos | </sarcasm> | 07:27 |
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| Strannik | Now i am | 07:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | npm: hmm, you mean UID:user will log out, so root could do a backup of /home/user? | 07:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I can't see root doing a restore of such backup, as root got no permission to write to /home/user AIUI | 07:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | anyway init 5 proprerly fsckd up the device here | 07:33 |
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| npm | DocScrutinizer: yes | 07:39 |
| npm | i'm too wimpy to try it, so i'm just doing a live backup as 'user' of /home/user | 07:39 |
| npm | then as 'developer' of /home/developer | 07:40 |
| npm | etc | 07:40 |
| npm | although i probably should stop it and rerun the 'tar' part on the handset... | 07:41 |
| npm | ^C at 339M | 07:41 |
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| rzrmob | hi | 07:46 |
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| npm | tar cf - user | ssh npm@usb0 "gzip -c > /media/gnulem-npm/home/npm/n950/home-user.tgz" | 07:50 |
| npm | ... | 07:50 |
| npm | tar: can't open 'user/.signon/signonfs-mnt/signon.db': Permission denied | 07:52 |
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| npm | now dat's security! | 07:53 |
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| KRF | DocScrutinizer: what's so "*cough*" about that? | 10:07 |
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| qronic | hello | 11:00 |
| qronic | does somebody know where I can tune the number of alarm sound repeats? | 11:00 |
| qronic | currently alarm plays the sound only twice | 11:01 |
| Chaz6 | Dont know, but reminds me of a bug i found | 11:04 |
| Chaz6 | I had an sms tone i used fine in my n8 that didnt work on n9 | 11:04 |
| Chaz6 | It was quite short, so to get it to work i had to add some silence to the end of it | 11:04 |
| Chaz6 | Without the silence I could not select it | 11:04 |
| qronic | I'm using standard from the factory alarm sound | 11:04 |
| qronic | so I guess it's not quite it | 11:05 |
| qronic | I've 'find / -name alarm*' but nothing good | 11:05 |
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| wook | Hello | 11:37 |
| wook | How to set command line param so that python will be runned under meego-terminal? | 11:38 |
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| sandst1 | wook: /usr/bin/meego-terminal -e /usr/bin/python -i /home/user/MyDocs/myscript.py | 12:00 |
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| razvanpetru | hi, is there an easy way to recreate the native colored header? | 15:08 |
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| piggz | is it possible from QML to display a message...the type that some apps display in a box at the top of the screen? | 15:56 |
| vandenoever | piggz: probably easiest to add it yourself, make such a text box and add states that show and hide it when the msg text is changed | 15:59 |
| piggz | vandenoever: yeah, shouldnt be difficult, just wondered if it was a qt-components feature | 15:59 |
| piggz | vandenoever: found hthis http://www.developer.nokia.com/swipe/ux/pages/System_Banners.html | 16:00 |
| vandenoever | http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_UX_TutorialsModalMessageBox is in MeeGo.Components 0.1, | 16:00 |
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| vandenoever | ModalMessageBox is in MeeGo.Components 0.1, http://wiki.meego.com/MeeGo_UX_Tutorials | 16:00 |
| trx | piggz InfoBanner | 16:00 |
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| qronic | how to check if some file is protected by aegis? | 16:01 |
| qronic | I remember there's some file with hashes of "important" files | 16:01 |
| trx | piggz dont forget to import com.nokia.extras 1.0, its in there | 16:02 |
| piggz | trx: thx | 16:02 |
| trx | np | 16:02 |
| piggz | trx: is there docsadding http://doc.qt.nokia.com/qt-components-symbian-1.0/qt-components-extras.html to my bookmarks | 16:03 |
| piggz | s/adding..... | 16:03 |
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| DocScrutinizer | KRF: the mere fact that Nokia seems lazy on that | 16:07 |
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| frals | qronic: /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist or something like that | 16:22 |
| vladest | how to best implement settings page in QML? | 16:25 |
| vladest | with expanding sections | 16:25 |
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| KRF | DocScrutinizer: i see ;) | 16:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~may-I-edit | 16:49 |
| infobot | may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | qronic: ^^^ | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | damn | 16:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~literal may-i-edit | 16:50 |
| infobot | "may-i-edit" is "<reply>may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" || echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }" | 16:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, may-I-edit is <reply>may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" \|\| echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } | 16:51 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~literal may-i-edit | 16:51 |
| infobot | "may-i-edit" is "<reply>may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" |\| echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }" | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~may-I-edit | 16:51 |
| infobot | may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" |\| echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } | 16:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, may-I-edit is <reply>may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" \|| echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } | 16:52 |
| infobot | DocScrutinizer: okay | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~may-I-edit | 16:52 |
| infobot | may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | HAHA | 16:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~useless | 16:53 |
| * infobot starts crying and hides from docscrutinizer in the darkest corner of the room. :( | 16:53 | |
| DocScrutinizer | infobot: no, may-I-edit is <reply>may-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" && exit; echo "edit if you feel venturous"; } | 16:53 |
| infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer | 16:53 |
| qronic | DocScrutinizer: thanks! | 16:57 |
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| qronic | oh, one more question, what's dui stands for? | 17:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~dui | 17:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~wtf dui | 17:22 |
| infobot | Gee... I don't know what dui means... | 17:22 |
| qronic | cat /etc/meegotouch/themedaemonpriorities.conf | 17:22 |
| qronic | [SpecificApplicationPriorities] | 17:22 |
| qronic | sysuid = 90 | 17:22 |
| qronic | duihome = 80 | 17:22 |
| arcean | dui = Direct UI | 17:23 |
| qronic | thanks, do you know what's that for? | 17:24 |
| arcean | http://mobileduo.blogspot.com/2009/09/direct-ui-orbit-qt.html | 17:24 |
| arcean | that's all I know :) | 17:24 |
| qronic | ok :) | 17:25 |
| Venemo_ | DUI (Direct UI) is the old designation of the MeeGo Touch Framework | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | or, developing under the influence | 17:25 |
| Venemo_ | hm? | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | DUI | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:27 |
| Venemo_ | but why "developing under influence"? :D | 17:27 |
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| Stskeeps | more of a historical thing | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:29 |
| Venemo_ | :D | 17:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | dialer, calculator etc are kinda freaky UI - tap and hold a digit, sile off zhe digit and back on to it - watch what happens | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | slide* | 17:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | in calculator deleting results by the digit via "backspace" is nonsense | 17:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | cool: they were clever enough to disable "standby screen" (the clock display) when proximity sensor suggests device is in pocket | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | (N9) | 17:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | not cool: the display update of standby clock screen - on new minute - is freaking jerky | 17:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | looks like there are 3 refreshes done, with short blackouts in between | 17:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | aah, and that standby screen still seems to contribute to >30% battery consumption/day, without even WLAN enabled | 17:45 |
| frals | well | 17:45 |
| frals | 30% battery comsumption when nothing else is consuming battery... | 17:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | smaller fontsize will *drastically* reduce power consumption | 17:46 |
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| DocScrutinizer | due to way less bright pixels | 17:46 |
| frals | because i assume you didnt mean it lost 30% of a full charge in one day with everything else off | 17:46 |
| frals | and you somehow pinpointed those 30% to standby screen :) | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's exactly what I meant, frals | 17:47 |
| frals | how did you attribute this to the standby screen? | 17:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | I never did | 17:47 |
| frals | since i have a device on with inet connection disabled and it has never lost 30% in one day when its not being poked | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | >> seems to contribute to >30% battery << | 17:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | frals: stock system, no SIM, no installed apps, no installed WLAN connectivity, charged to 100% some <20h ago, since then it sits there idle with time display - now down 67% | 17:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | lemme redo this check - I'm not sure I never touched it and played with camera whatever since I unplugged it | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | so - scratch the whole comment about 30% - for now | 17:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | I may be wrong | 17:54 |
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| SpeedEvil | i'd be interested on the 'one pixel on' consumption. | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | plugged it to charger now - which btw is a really funny design | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | wow, I'm still online? | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | just had a lag of 150s | 17:57 |
| SpeedEvil | funky. | 17:57 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-D | 17:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | uhuh, chanlog tells me I *was* offline | 18:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-11-06 16:55:17] <DocScrutinizer> plugged it to charger now - which btw is a really funny design | 18:01 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer, how's N9(50) hostmode going? | 18:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | making friend with N9, but not to a degree where I could do anything regarding messing with hw yet | 18:02 |
| RST38h | Moo, Doc | 18:04 |
| RST38h | How is N9? | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | not even dared to go online with that device for any prolonged time, to avoid possible forced updates to any even newer fw version | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: shiny | 18:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin shiny | 18:04 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer, "to avoid possible forced updates to any even newer fw version" -> what's the point in that? | 18:05 |
| RST38h | yeah - handled it in a store yesterday | 18:05 |
| RST38h | Doc: Nokia Russia seems to be treating it as a flagship btw | 18:05 |
| RST38h | based on the amount of advertising... | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_: what's the point of my N950 still on 22-6? Paegis :-/ | 18:05 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer, well, I'll want hostmode on the newest firmware. | 18:05 |
| Venemo_ | so... | 18:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Venemo_: you won't get that, any time | 18:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Developing hostmode is a seperate thing from implementing it on user devices. | 18:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | hostmode is impossible on *any* stock firmware | 18:06 |
| Venemo_ | DocScrutinizer, why is that | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | Paegis | 18:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | we'll inevitably need a hostmode enabled kernel for that - at least that's the scientific recent knowledge about the issue | 18:08 |
| Venemo_ | so what. | 18:08 |
| Venemo_ | you make an aegis manifest file for your package | 18:08 |
| Venemo_ | and it'll work | 18:08 |
| SpeedEvil | Err - no. | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Not to install kernel modules. | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | so I'm not going to update devel devices to any more restrictive stock FW for the shits'n'giggles | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | in addition, you can't get all tokens. | 18:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Even through ovi store, you can't get kernel module install token. | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | and for now I'm still missing any official stock Nokia HARM image to reflash N9 | 18:10 |
| Venemo_ | hm. | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | so messing with kernels etc on that N9 was rather insane a thing to do right now, in my book | 18:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | I *might* have to go the meegoCE path even, to do *anything* for HEN9 | 18:12 |
| Venemo_ | mhmm | 18:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | I got a "cracked" 22-6 N950 where I can mess with hw the way I like, to check what are the chips and how they work - not so on N9 | 18:13 |
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| DocScrutinizer | the odd thing is it's quite likely N9 has significantly different hw for USB than N9 | 18:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | N950* | 18:15 |
| Venemo_ | mhm | 18:15 |
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| DocScrutinizer | so I couldn't even test if my N950 success on enabling vboost 5V-VBUS would work at all on N9, due to newer FW which I don't exactly feel like trying to free it up / de-Paegis it right now | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | and our master dragonfighter aegiskiller javisp isn't around to share his secret wisdom to me | 18:20 |
| RST38h | He used enemas. | 18:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | The Illinois enema bandit? | 18:21 |
| RST38h | Dunno, ask! | 18:24 |
| * DocScrutinizer prefers to listen to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-282MymjQTw | 18:29 | |
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| Velmont | Any idea howtoshare the net fromthe Nokia N9 to the computer using USB cable? Wifi sharing drains too much battery, my old android does that automatically. | 18:30 |
| SpeedEvil | use it asd modem | 18:31 |
| Velmont | The N9 kinda does it as well, it seems, I get an IP adress from the N9, but it doesn't come with correct gateway and it doesn't really NAT me through. | 18:31 |
| Velmont | SpeedEvil: Aahhh. OK. So modem, not NAT, then. | 18:31 |
| Venemo_ | Velmont, use it as a USB modem... | 18:31 |
| Scifig | Has anyone ported duplicity to harmattan or working on a port? | 18:35 |
| Venemo_ | wut's duplicity? | 18:38 |
| Scifig | Venemo_, rsync like backup with encryption. http://duplicity.nongnu.org/ | 18:39 |
| Venemo_ | mhm | 18:39 |
| Scifig | It was available in N900. Don't remember who ported it. | 18:40 |
| Scifig | Very useful to take scheduled remote backups of device | 18:41 |
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| Velmont | I'm looking into using unison myself. It's very handy, more like dropbox, in that it does two-way syncing. | 18:45 |
| flux | scifig, actually would you call it rsync-like? | 18:46 |
| flux | scifig, I'm under the understanding that you cannot really do a 'full backup' each time, that only transfers modifierd parts, like you can with rsync | 18:47 |
| pinheiro | my n950 now decided to keep asking me for my passwords all the time | 18:47 |
| pinheiro | whats up with that? | 18:47 |
| flux | so you typically transfer only increments, but because you cannot keep doing that either (eventually the increments are larger than multiple fulls), you need to fall back to doing a full and that again takes time a lot :) | 18:47 |
| Scifig | flux, I should correct myself. It is based on rsync. And yes, it only transfers modified parts which is ideal to save on network traffic if you are taking remotebackups. You can configure it take full backups after x backups or y months AFAIK | 18:50 |
| flux | scifig, so when doing you want the full image to arrive to the backup site, it can optimize the transfers so that it doesn't copy everything, if it already has a previous image? | 18:51 |
| Scifig | correct | 18:52 |
| flux | hmm, then I should reinvestigate duplicity | 18:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | rsync reduces data volume on channel by only transferring diffs, but the mirror is no incremental backup, it's always a full representation of the source - plus files that got deleted on source but stay on mirror | 18:52 |
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| flux | I thought duplicity simply used rsync's diff algorithm for storing incrementals, so that it doesn't maintain 'a full copy' image on the server | 18:53 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nfc what duplicity does | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | rsync however creates an exact copy of source on mirror, and simply keeps it in sync. No versioning | 18:55 |
| Scifig | My configuration was --full-if-older-than 2W | 18:55 |
| Scifig | for duplicity | 18:55 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, yes, but rsync doesn't do encryption, which is great to have if you don't 100% trust the storage | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | ummm | 18:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | if I don't trust the storage I'll use cryptfs | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | and mount that remotely | 18:56 |
| flux | but does rsync work efficiently in that case? | 18:56 |
| flux | because I would imagine rsync expects fast access to 'local files' | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | nothing can work "effectively" on an untrusted storage | 18:57 |
| Scifig | DocScrutinizer, Does cryptfs encrypt a folder/partition or the complete filesystem? | 18:58 |
| flux | I cannot see how that be an axiom. | 18:58 |
| flux | it may not be easy, and it may not be as efficient as rsync currently is (ie: file-level), but a useful solution could exist, IMHO | 18:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: just think a bit about how you'd attack such a setup, then you'll find it's (once more) the problem of "trusted computing" | 19:00 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, well, think of a setup where you locally first encrypt a file with a symmetric key, and rsync that to the remote system | 19:01 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, if you do modify the file (a block-based cipher), you can efficiently rsync that again to the peer | 19:01 |
| flux | actually, you could do that with ecryptfs already, hm :). you would just rsync the encrypted files with the remote, which doesn't know anything about encryption. | 19:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | if your encrypted file is easily diff-able than your encryption is next to useless | 19:02 |
| flux | (actually encfs) | 19:03 |
| flux | when you modify a file on an encrypted filesystem, do you expect that the whole file gets modified within your block storage? | 19:03 |
| Scifig | flux, or rsync an un-encrypted file to a remote filesystem/volume(?) encrypted using cryptfs? | 19:04 |
| flux | scifig, something like that. but actually now that I think of it, it would sort of need to be the reverse of encfs, unless you want to encrypt the files locally | 19:04 |
| flux | scifig, so you could mount an 'encrypted view' of a plain text filesystem | 19:05 |
| flux | something that mounted with (say) encfs gets decrypted properly | 19:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you don't encrypt locally, you got a huge open attack vector, just strace the remote process | 19:05 |
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| flux | I never intended in my scneario that plain text would leave the source host | 19:06 |
| Scifig | DocScrutinizer, Didn't think of that. Good to know. | 19:06 |
| flux | basically: view-as-encrypted-mount /tmp/plaintext /tmp/encrypted; rsync -a /tmp/encrypted remotehost: | 19:07 |
| flux | but, it would need to store some additional data in /tmp/encrypted, such as file-specific keys | 19:07 |
| flux | and it would need to create such keys if they don't already exist | 19:07 |
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| flux | now I understand there some chance that some cryptoanalysis could be performed if you encrypt the same block twice with the same key.. | 19:08 |
| flux | but perhaps there are some ways to solve that | 19:08 |
| flux | (same block as in the same offset of the file but with perhaps different content) | 19:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | use an incremental backup scheme locally to create a local "diff", encrypt it, save it to any storage by any means, no need and use for rsync via open channel in that case | 19:11 |
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| Scifig | DocScrutinizer, Doesn't rsync need access to the un-encrypted backup image to calculate the diffs? | 19:12 |
| flux | the problem (solvable?) is that you need to have the previous image for that | 19:13 |
| flux | maybe you can keep a snapshot around with lvm | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | Scifig: where's rsync used in my last posted proposal? | 19:13 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: you usually keep a list of mtimes/md5sums | 19:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | and "backup" whole files for the changed parts | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you want to do true diff then obviously you need a full version of the old state locally | 19:15 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, would the other end then finally have lists of incrementals? | 19:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 19:17 |
| flux | for example, my local backup system has dozens of 'full' images of my system with diffs stored with the rsync algorithm, and I never need to actually transfer everything again | 19:17 |
| flux | I wonder how easily that would be implemented with an encrypting system | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | you do a find / -newer lastbackuptagfile -exec add_to_tarball, then you encrypt the tarball | 19:18 |
| flux | eventually the incrementals will end up being larger than the original base image, though | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: sorry you completely lost me on "diffs stored with the rsync algo" | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: BS | 19:20 |
| DocScrutinizer | this is impossible to happen | 19:20 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, how do you choose which tar incrementals to remove from the remote server? | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you simply create a tarball of only the changed files, this tarball never can get larger than the original set of data | 19:21 |
| flux | but the base image + n incrementals can get a lot larger than 2 times the base image | 19:21 |
| flux | if you never 'reset' and transfer the base image again | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | sure | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | so what? that's how backup works | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | it has more info than the current original, it has history | 19:22 |
| flux | what you are missing is that eventually the oldest backups are purged | 19:22 |
| flux | making more space into the system | 19:22 |
| flux | which incrementals can you remove? | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's up to you, the admin | 19:22 |
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| DocScrutinizer | there's NO rule for that | 19:23 |
| flux | well I don't unfortunately have infinite storage available, so I need to purge old backups at soem point | 19:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | you purge when you think there's no way you ever will need any of that stuff again | 19:23 |
| berndhs | ask a lawyer, see what you can get away with | 19:24 |
| flux | what can you purge? the oldest incrementals? the base image? | 19:24 |
| flux | assuming you don't want to lose any files that are still in the file system, and that you don't want to transfer them again either | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | please read a good manpage about backup, there are schemes suggested | 19:24 |
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| flux | afaik BackupPC works by storing the latest image and previous versions are always diffs to the next version, this way it can just remove the oldest incremental | 19:26 |
| flux | oops, that wasn't coherent | 19:26 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://linux.die.net/man/8/dump | 19:26 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, what those backup tools always require is a periodic full transfer | 19:27 |
| flux | and I would rather not do it, if transferring a full image takes a week, or a month. | 19:27 |
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| DocScrutinizer | errr | 19:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | http://linux.die.net/man/8/dump | 19:28 |
| flux | dump is written in the age of tape drives. you don't really do tape backups without making a full in a periodic fashion. unless you have inifinite supply of takes. | 19:30 |
| flux | tapes, even. | 19:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | flux: basics of backup management are completely understood and haven't changed since age of Hollerith punchcards | 19:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | and dump isn't doing useless stuff for the mere "because we *can* (and are too lazy to think about better ways)" | 19:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | if you bother to read and *understand* that manpage, you'll see dump provides a few elementary methods and suggests a scheme to use them. Both the methods and the scheme are valid no matter what's your backup storage media, or your channel, or whatever | 19:34 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, let's say I have a file system to backup with 365 pieces of 1 GB files, and I've managed to transfer it once through some means to another site. each day I wish to modify one of these files, in sequence, and backup the file system to the site, transferring at most one gigabyte, and keep 14 latest versions of my current file system in a restorable fashion in the site. how can I do it so that I never store more than 365 + 14 gigabytes on ... | 19:42 |
| flux | ... the remote site? which files does the site have in its storage at the end of the year? | 19:42 |
| flux | perhaps I really do not internalize this subject then, but I've really given it a thought during the years. | 19:42 |
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| DocScrutinizer | flux: as you can not consolidate on your mirror server (it's "untrusted", mind?), there's no other way than either store all 356 incremental backups (at that point you could actually purge the original full image as it has no more relevant data in it, which is known only by your source system as mirror server doesn't know about filenames and relations between them and full image) - or you do another full image every 14 days | 19:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | or you remote mount (fuse) a cryptfs file from your mirror server to local, and rsync to that | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | ..to that local cryptfs volume | 19:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | you may want to keep local incrementals (like unionfs etc) to keep versions, each mounted to one of 14 cryptfs files on your mirror | 19:50 |
| Scifig_ | DocScrutinizer, FWIW duplicity works similar to how u suggested earlier. That is, generate diffs, encrypt the diffs (it uses gpg) and transfer them to the remote location. It has option to create full backup every 'x' days/weeks/months | 19:52 |
| flux | docscrutinizer, in the first solution purging of the original data would need to occur in steps, or at day 364 there would be 1.99 times the original data. but something like the cryptfs would work, but it requires keeping the data encrypted locally as well. | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | on a trusted mirror things are of course way simpler, as you could consolidate there, means create a true open image of the full data that always represents state of 14 days ago, and then you "restore" the oldest 14th incremental backup to the mirror full image and then purge that incremental backup file | 19:53 |
| flux | but I'm hoping someone, some day, will write a simple tool that lets me mindlessly run commands and it just works ;) | 19:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | restore *locally* - no data transfer involved as the mirror "updates" local full image from now-15d to now-14d | 20:01 |
| DocScrutinizer | for obvious reasons all this can't be done if you store crypted data on your backup mirror | 20:02 |
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| DocScrutinizer | i.e >> purging of the original data would need to occur in steps << is impossible on encrypted data | 20:04 |
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| DocScrutinizer | unless you crypt every file separately and thus at very least reveal info about the size and last-modified date of your files, even when you keep a pseudo filename for all of them and crypt the true nametable | 20:06 |
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| flux | docscrutinizer, at least the size could be inexact and the times could be encrypted | 20:08 |
| flux | (but the peer could just find out which files you modify, so it would affect only attacks that occur later than updating the backup data) | 20:09 |
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| dymaxion | hi, there's a bit of contradiction on the meaning of the Qt deploy targets. Meego 1.2 Harmattan API, vs Harmattan Platform API, (once says that the former is Meego1.2+Nokia, other pages say that the former is just Meego 1.2 and only the "harmattan API" is Meego+Nokia ) confused! thanks | 20:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | harmattan is maemo for this, anyway. And there's no harmattan without Nokia | 21:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | I.E. meego.*harmattan is NOT meego | 21:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's why this irc channel exists ;-) | 21:12 |
| piggz | trx: either the documentation is horribly wrong, or im doing something horrible wrong....InfoBanner has a 'timeout' property of type int .... ive assigned to it, yet i get an error saying no such property | 21:12 |
| Scifig_ | dymaxion, IMO in context of packages available with Qt SDK, "Meego 1.2 Harmattan API" is bare minimum harmattan API. For example, it does not install gconf header files in the harmattan target. "Harmattan Platform API" has gconf. | 21:19 |
| Scifig_ | I recommend installing both | 21:19 |
| piggz | trx: ah, looking at the source, it appears the documentation i was reading is very wrong http://qt.gitorious.org/qt-components/qt-components/blobs/master/src/meego/extras/InfoBanner.qml | 21:38 |
| Kypeli | piggz: I completely omitted the (anyway lacking) documentation and looked only at QmlComponentsGallery source code | 21:48 |
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| artemma | Hi All | 22:41 |
| artemma | Has anybody tried setuid on harmattan? | 22:41 |
| artemma | I can see the setuid bit, but can't see any effect of it. However, I am not very familiar with anything *nix, so maybe I am missing something very basic | 22:42 |
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| merlin1991 | artemma: you're missing aegis | 22:54 |
| artemma | merlin1991: could you expand? | 22:54 |
| artemma | I can see the setuid bit set properly (as it looks to me), but whoever launches the binary, binary is launched under this "whoever" indeed | 22:55 |
| artemma | not under the binary owner as setuid wants (I think) | 22:56 |
| merlin1991 | I'm not sure if aegis (the security framework) denys this but I think it does, ask someone else though | 22:57 |
| artemma | problem is that my knowledge is limited regarding both aegis and general unix rights management :) | 22:57 |
| artemma | so I am hoping for somebody knowledgeable to help indeed | 22:58 |
| artemma | Another question BTW: Does anybody know a [relatively] simple public project with a UI app AND a server that is started on a bootup? | 22:59 |
| artemma | I'd like to clone something like that. That would be an alternative to setuid :) | 22:59 |
| gri | artemma: http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Developing_for_Harmattan_Creating_daemons.html?tab=3&q=daemon&sp=all ? | 23:02 |
| gri | "On Harmattan devices, the config files of 3rd party daemons must be placed into the /etc/init/apps/ directory when they are installed on the device. At the end of the device boot sequence, the Upstart framework executes applications within that directory." | 23:03 |
| gri | reads like what you want? | 23:03 |
| artemma | reading.. | 23:03 |
| artemma | gri, indeed, this is what I want. Oh well, I want a compilable example of it :) | 23:04 |
| artemma | Docs are also very correct that SyncFW is actually way more appropriate for me, but I failed to make SyncFW work | 23:05 |
| artemma | so for start daemon would be good enough (code is ready and working, I just want to daemonize it). Later I'll research SyncFW again | 23:05 |
| gri | what type of process do you daemonize? | 23:06 |
| artemma | flickr wallpaper downloaded | 23:07 |
| artemma | right now it is started by alarmd everyday (or every hour, etc) | 23:07 |
| gri | for example if you create a dbus-controlled service, this gets started automatically when someone tries to call functions on your service and it's not running | 23:07 |
| gri | hmm ok | 23:07 |
| artemma | hmm | 23:07 |
| artemma | so alarmd started service can write only to /var/tmp that is fine.. until a reboot when tmp is cleaned | 23:07 |
| gri | well, you can work around that with dbus | 23:08 |
| gri | but it may not be the perfect solution | 23:08 |
| artemma | so I thought about creating a server that would listen to message on gconf (or dbus, but I know only about how to make gconf work) | 23:08 |
| artemma | the real proper solution is SyncFW, just too complex for me right now | 23:08 |
| artemma | dbus-controlled service is something I didn't know about | 23:08 |
| artemma | sounds proper enough if it can start services indeed | 23:09 |
| gri | the other way: start only a bash script that calls dbus-call | 23:09 |
| artemma | do you know under which user such dbus-service is started? | 23:09 |
| gri | no, but I assume user | 23:09 |
| artemma | as my service would need to save downloaded files to some permanent place | 23:09 |
| artemma | hopefully not under whoever called dbus (that would be nobody) | 23:10 |
| * artemma went to googling about autostarted dbus services and harmattan-specific code examples | 23:10 | |
| gri | artemma: http://pastebin.com/dTsHghAK | 23:11 |
| gri | ovi store client was not started before | 23:11 |
| gri | and my ssh user is developer | 23:11 |
| artemma | aha.. | 23:11 |
| gri | and the process is started by "user" | 23:12 |
| gri | so that looks correct | 23:12 |
| artemma | I don't know what qdbus is, I assume it is some kind of command-line interface to dbus | 23:12 |
| gri | yes, it lets you call functions on dbus by commandline | 23:12 |
| artemma | I can't see on which line you called that function | 23:12 |
| artemma | looks like you only listed the methods available | 23:13 |
| gri | yes | 23:13 |
| gri | but to list the methods it already needs to start the application | 23:13 |
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| gri | the only thing dbus knows is which application it has to start when someone asks for "com.nokia.OviStoreClient" | 23:13 |
| * artemma is trying same via ssh | 23:14 | |
| gri | you can also do this with calc etc | 23:14 |
| artemma | oh. So just a simple message can do that! | 23:14 |
| artemma | So I guess all you need to do is to somehow register to dbus and have some special entry point in your server (or maybe even in the same app binary)? | 23:15 |
| gri | take a look at the files in /usr/share/dbus-1/services/ | 23:15 |
| gri | no special entry points | 23:16 |
| artemma | looks very simple, indeed | 23:16 |
| artemma | if I've got it correctly, you just specify which a command line to run and it can include arguments (way for my code to check if it's called via service or not) | 23:17 |
| gri | yep | 23:18 |
| artemma | it would still be cool to find a working example project (to cut the research time), but that is already something I can start researching | 23:18 |
| artemma | thanks a lot, gri! | 23:18 |
| artemma | then my alarmd script could just send a message to dbus. Maybe the very same qdbus would be good enough for it | 23:19 |
| * artemma hopes that user nobody can send messages to dbus | 23:19 | |
| artemma | hey, I can verify it right now, by running qdbus under nobody! :)_ | 23:19 |
| artemma | fantastico! | 23:20 |
| artemma | It works! | 23:20 |
| gri | one thing left: I don't know if qdbus comes with developer mode | 23:21 |
| artemma | hmm, I have developer mode activated, but I didn't install anything from it | 23:21 |
| artemma | exactly to stay as close to final N9 as possible | 23:21 |
| artemma | Anybody with a retail N9 here? | 23:21 |
| gri | me but also developer mode active | 23:22 |
| gri | I hope it's included without developer mode | 23:22 |
| artemma | asked on twitter for somebody with N9 to try that command :) | 23:23 |
| gri | if not, there's also "dbus-send" which is mentioned in the harmattan docs of SyncFw | 23:23 |
| gri | well problem is: if you don't turn on developer mode, you have no terminal to try | 23:23 |
| artemma | oh.. | 23:23 |
| gri | so someone would need to create a test package and run this on a phone without developer mode (browser downloading) | 23:23 |
| gri | or a nokian replys to your tweet :) | 23:24 |
| gri | replies* | 23:24 |
| artemma | can you install app out of ovi store if your developer mode is off? | 23:25 |
| gri | I think so | 23:25 |
| artemma | oh well, I can test it on my own N950 by switching dev mode off | 23:25 |
| artemma | maybe things are a little different if user NEVER switched dev mode on | 23:26 |
| gri | I could reflash the N9 tomorrow to test if no one replied | 23:26 |
| gri | haven't even used it right now since the n950 has the newer firmware | 23:27 |
| artemma | oh well, the change needed for my current alarmd-nobody based implementation is so small that I may be able to prepare a test package very soon | 23:28 |
| artemma | will probably make no final sense, but can be used for testing the approach | 23:28 |
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| javispedro | so | 23:50 |
| javispedro | I had happily prepared my N950 for a small weekend trip, loaded songs, maps, etc. etc. | 23:50 |
| javispedro | and like 1 hour after exiting home, MALF. | 23:51 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you beat me on suggesting AMLF :-P | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | MALF | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOL | 23:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | what's been the "offending MALF component" according to msg? | 23:52 |
| javispedro | aegis-loader | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | *cough* | 23:52 |
| javispedro | the MALF's message been changed | 23:52 |
| javispedro | shorter now | 23:52 |
| javispedro | fun thing, this was PR1.1, where I had no crack available for because they closed my beatiful one | 23:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-((( | 23:53 |
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| javispedro | either way, at that moment, only the thought of the $500 fine prevented me from smashing the N950 | 23:54 |
| * javispedro is not happy. | 23:54 | |
| DocScrutinizer | I think smashing isn't punishable | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | as long as you keep the pieces | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | X-P | 23:54 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 23:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | don't shoot the hw when the sw is the culprit, though | 23:55 |
| javispedro | good point. | 23:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | (though I feel with you, had similar ambitions several times) | 23:56 |
| gri | Is there anyone doing the community-app downloader? | 23:57 |
| psycho_oreos | which one would you prefer smashing? a rare N950 device which actually has a hardware keyboard and is probably more loyal to you? or a common N9 device that doesn't even have hardware keyboard? | 23:57 |
| mgedmin | it has something even better: BEAUTY! ;) | 23:58 |
| psycho_oreos | which has? N950? no doubt. N9? no there's no beauty in N9 when you have lumia 800 looking very similar to it | 23:59 |
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