IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-11-03

artemmadjszapi: subdir in /var/tmp created under user can be modified by developer, but not by root00:00
djszapiobviously, but we are not speaking about that00:00
djszapiartemma: yes, of course, but do not confuse others pls.00:00
djszapiyou asked for a writable location00:00
djszapi/var/tmp /is/ a writable location00:00
djszapiofc developer can develop things, root cannot. That is the design after all on /purpose/.00:00
artemmaDocScrutinizer: I don't think so. I can only pass command line to alarmd. If I can set user from that command line, I'll do that00:00
djszapibut you have the place to write in any case.00:00
artemmadjszapi: thanks, indeed00:00
* djszapi does not really still see the issue00:01
artemmadjszapi: how can you not see the issue, really? I wanted to save a file and I was not able to do so. That was the issue00:01
artemmanow trying solutions and workarounds00:01
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djszapi/var/tmp works as I said from the minute first00:02
djszapiyou said not, it /should/.00:02
artemmadjszapi: well, I was failing to understand you00:02
djszapistill saying what in the first minute. No issue00:02
artemmathanks for the patience00:02
wookartemma, what are you working on? :)00:02
artemmawook, changes wallpaper every day/hour/week00:03
artemmato fresh one from flickr00:03
wookaha, but why do you need that path?00:03
artemmait is working perfectly on my device for over a week, but customers somehow have problems :)00:03
djszapialso, it is not true root cannot write into user folders.00:03
djszapiit /can/ write if the others bit is writable.00:04
wookartemma, mind if i try it? :)00:04
artemmawook: most of the time the code is run by the system. So file access rights and pemissions can clash00:04
djszapiit really is basic linux thingie :)00:04
artemmawook, sure you can. It was even published in ovi store until 10 min ago :)00:04
wookwhat's name, artemma? :)00:04
artemmabut only after I fix this issue00:04
artemmawook, doesn't matter as it's removed for now00:05
artemmaDaily wallpaper it was00:05
wookaha :) ok :)00:05
wookhope will see it soon ;)00:05
deramnow I'm scared... things in ovi shop can mess up filesystem that bad...00:05
wookderam, dpkg, apt-get...can fix it i think00:06
djszapihuh ?00:06
jabiswhat did I miss?00:06
wooknot much, jabis :)00:06
deramif that /.local... stuff was really sticky folders etc..00:06
artemmaderam: well, my problem is that they cannot messup with the file system, so don't be that scared :)00:06
wookhahahaha, artemma :D00:07
jabisso one cannot rm -rf /* for the fuck of it x)00:07
wookartemma, are you only changing wallpaper on lockscreen or?00:07
deramyep.. will just think before install even in ovi.. not a problem...00:07
jabispardon my french - I really need to start paying attention to my language x)00:08
wookhahahahaha jabis :D00:08
Venemoalterego, ping00:08
artemmahmm, setuid doesn't seem to be present in the system00:08
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artemmaDocScrutinizer: were you talking about command line utility setuid or some C function setuid?00:08
artemmathanks, jabis, reading about these bits now00:13
artemmahmm, I figured that in PR1.1 my app isn't run as root in fact00:13
jabisglibc has a wrapper for it00:13
artemmaI did see it under root00:13
artemmabut now I see that it's run under nobody00:13
artemmawhy is this nobody guy?00:14
artemmaI mean who is this nobody guy00:14
jabisnobody is an unprivileged user00:14
artemmaand I guess this nobody guy really cannot write to anywhere00:15
jabisit's used for anonymous file-system access00:16
jabismainly for daemons that is00:16
artemmahmm, so a simple chmod should make my app always start under user regardless of who tries it00:16
* wook is away00:17
jabischmod changes file user permissions00:18
artemmaQt Creator installs my app so that it's main binary is registered under root.. Is it different when installing from ovi store?00:18
artemma-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root         94952 Nov  3 00:03 flickrwallpapersapp00:19
* artemma is going to try chmod u+s00:19
Arkenoijabis: cannot install bedisde -- aegis sucks00:19
artemmacan't see and setuid in ls -l00:20
artemmacan't see setuid via ls -l00:20
artemmamaybe console user doesn't have permission to change this bit00:20
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jabisArkenoi: ? devel-su - dpkg -i bedside*.deb00:21
artemmaI wonder if I could set setuid bit during deployment somehow00:21
jabisartemma, check the last paragraph (testing with user data00:22
artemmaoh, numeric chmod worked00:22
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jabisArkenoi: of course those two commands on different lines ^^00:23
Arkenoijabis:  denied mce::TKLockControl -- origina does not allow it00:23
artemmaI managed to set setuid, still alaem daemon is running my binary as nobody00:23
artemmajabis: yeah, I am using console under different users00:24
Arkenoiah, seems that is was installed anyways00:26
Arkenoibut no desktop icon00:26
Arkenoijust the binary00:26
wookguys, see you later00:27
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jabiswould need the sources to get rid of them mce token calls00:28
jabisArkenoi: you could try to force the installation (not a good practise) so you get the desktop file in place00:29
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artemmaI solved it!00:34
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artemmaWell, workarounded :)00:34
artemmawook, you still want to give it a try?00:35
artemmaoups, he left already00:35
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Sazpaimonso my mom called me and told me she got an N901:28
Sazpaimoni dont even remember telling her about it01:28
Sazpaimonlet alone how she managed to get one01:28
Sazpaimonits the 16GB version though01:29
Sazpaimonhow fast do they fill up01:29
Sazpaimonand if 16 is too little, how would I best exchange it for a 64GB one01:30
* special thinks 16 is plenty01:30
SpeedEvil16 is not 1601:32
SpeedEvil4 is / 4 is /home 8 is MyDocs01:33
SazpaimonIm at 22GB on my N900 mydocs01:34
Sazpaimonbut thats all dev stuff01:34
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Sazpaimoni also have 19 gigs of xbox 360 games on it01:35
SazpaimonI think its la noire01:37
Sazpaimonand part of duke nuke forever01:37
Sazpaimonso i guess if i dont use my phone as a seedbox I should be ok01:39
Sazpaimonill look into an exchange once 64G models become more plentiful01:40
Sazpaimonand thus less expensive01:40
specialonly reason I would buy 64 is if I can't get white in 16gb :p01:40
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Sazpaimonso the N9 browser, it has no plugin support at all right?01:45
Sazpaimonnevermind flash, just plugins in general01:45
SpeedEvilI'm unsure if it technically has plugin support. If users or devs can add plugins is another question.01:49
SpeedEvilIt should be possible to install your own browser.01:49
Sazpaimoni was thinking of trying to port lightspark01:55
Sazpaimonit failed on the N900 because the screen only supports 16 bit colors while lightspark is made for 24 bit colors01:56
Sazpaimonthe N9 theoretically has 24 bit support, albeit buggy01:56
Sazpaimonwhat happens when you do about:plugins in the browser01:58
SpeedEvilblank page01:59
SpeedEvilAs does about:\01:59
Sazpaimoni thing about:config is mozilla-centriv02:01
Sazpaimoneven opera mobile has an about:plugins02:02
Sazpaimonand that for sure has no plugin support02:02
SpeedEvilsettings->applications->web is almost blank02:02
SpeedEvilBrowser doesn't seem to expose anything on the commandline02:09
DocScrutinizercmdline? HAH, not even fremantle notes was able to take the file to edit as a cmdline parameter02:10
Sazpaimonim pretty sure tombile gave me the wrong microsim02:11
Sazpaimonbecause I can use it just fine on my n90002:12
Sazpaimoniirc the n9 uses a different type of microsim than the cut regular sim02:12
DocScrutinizerI don't think there *are* any different types of mycrosim02:14
DocScrutinizermicro SIM*02:15
Sazpaimonive seen microsims that have smaller contacts than regular sims02:15
SpeedEvilThe exact size isn't important02:18
SpeedEvilthe specified landing points of the 6 (?) contacts is specified.02:18
SpeedEvilNothing else02:18
Sazpaimonim pretty surprised how well a microsim fits in an n90002:21
Sazpaimonworked on my first try02:21
Sazpaimonfit pretty snuggly and not moving around02:21
SpeedEvilI have a microsim in mine.02:21
SpeedEvilI took a slightly different approach.02:22
SpeedEvilI cut it out of the card it shipped in with a chisel.02:22
SpeedEvilSo it's the same shape as a normal SIM.02:22
SpeedEvilIt's on an 'IPAD' plan.02:22
Sazpaimonell thats not really needed, it fits just fine as is02:22
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Sazpaimonall this phone needs now is sleeping sreen04:35
Sazpaimonfrom the symbian dudes04:35
Sazpaimonso like04:46
Sazpaimoni cant find the setting to enable swype04:46
specialSazpaimon: n950?04:50
specialSazpaimon: time and language -> text input, enable it and set it as the active input method.04:51
Sazpaimonnope, N904:52
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Sazpaimonaustrailian version, I think04:52
Sazpaimonfrom what im reading swype isnt in my firmware version, gotta wait for PR1.104:52
dymaxionHi there. wow lots of people here :-)  Got my N9 and liking it so far.04:52
Sazpaimonwhy isnt openssh-server in init.d05:04
Sazpaimonno matter, I got ssh working with root login now05:05
Sazpaimonokay, where do I get bash from05:11
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Sazpaimonbecause i cant seem to find it in the official repo05:20
SazpaimonW: Failed to fetch  The requested URL returned error: 40405:21
Sazpaimonmanaged to just install it from a deb05:29
Sazpaimonanyway, this rdesktop port is pretty useless on an N905:29
Sazpaimonno keyboard05:29
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* SpeedEvil wonders when n9 people will outnumber n95006:16
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Sazpaimoni would have an n950 if nokia responded to my developer signup request06:21
Sazpaimoni had a legitimate reason to own an N906:21
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SpeedEvilThere are regrettably many n950s that aren't being used productively.06:34
psycho_oreosand there's no way nokia will hand them out ever again06:34
SpeedEvilI kinda suspect there are a couple of K sitting in a warehouse.06:36
psycho_oreosyup, it'll never be handed out. I bet nokia offices still has those by the boxfuls. Never bothered to even worry about it and let the device sit there06:37
psycho_oreosthere's loads and loads of maemo owners out there who would love to have just one N950, but nokia is as useful as Uncle Scrooge06:39
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Sazpaimonthe remaining N950s are probably pre-selected to be replacements06:59
Sazpaimonoh ffs07:00
Sazpaimonnokia still uses scratchbox for N9 development07:00
Sazpaimongotta get the bootstrap then07:00
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npmwow, i have few remaining days, if any, to decide what to do w/ my n900's under-warranty cracked display, which i should attempt to replace07:14
npmany suggestions07:14
npmi didn't want to deal w/ it because it's running all the stuff i want, in my bedroom, and the cracked display still lets me put music on at night and tell it to play for 60 m07:15
psycho_oreospre-selected for replacements? then when will MohammadAG get his replacement N950 that was lost because of the customs/courier?07:16
npmplus i gotta use it soon to sync my n950.... maybe i should just keep it...07:16
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: ofc he should07:16
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: I am assuming there are enough replacements for the 300 to get them replaced about 4 times07:16
Sazpaimondoes anyone have their ssh connection suddenly stop working on an N907:16
npmand it beeps handily whenever someone skypes or gmails or chats or ...'s me07:16
npmwhattodowhattodo...guess i'll add some features to
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, and until MohammadAG says he has received his replacement N950 I'm willing to remain skeptic that the N950 sitting somewhere in boxes doing nothing other than looking pretty is just a tell tale sign that nokia will never want to hand those out07:18
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: well, yeah, I wouldn't mind paying a little for another N950 though, testing two different things on different phones is always a nice thing07:19
npmwhat i'd really like is an n950 build like a panasonic toughbook07:19
npmeven if somewhat larger07:19
psycho_oreoshiemanshu, yet the irony is that there's plenty of us out there who would be happy to get our hands on one N950, even if we had to pay for it07:19
npmmy giant sunglasses case and hair-tie is not so stylish, plus the backpack i ususally end up carrying around for the sunglasses case :-)07:20
npmwhich holds the n95007:20
npmbut hey if they got warehouses of replacements, maybe i shouldn't treat it like i was a religious relic....07:21
psycho_oreoson the contrary should you lose/damage that N950 you may not be able to get a replacement which will bring you to the same level as MohammadAG07:22
npmyeah, thus the large "serengeti" case07:24
npmactually it's not a religous relic as much as a rare pet... the last of the meegekans07:25
hiemanshupsycho_oreos: sadly yeah, wish Nokia would just give them to deserving devs07:33
hiemanshualso whats with default Qt Creator template now having qmlapplicationviewer for Harmattan07:34
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Sazpaimonhow do I get git on the harmattan sdk07:47
Sazpaimoni cant seem to find it in the default repositories07:47
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djszapiSpeedEvil: As I know - it is not possible to flash anything on the device if it is locked - without full data erase. (if it is not so - it is a regression in PR1.2)08:30
djszapiWhen 'clear device' option will be used for the flasher - device lock will be removed + user data will be removed also.08:30
djszapiI have just tried and it did not work, so please do not say false things.08:31
djszapiso strongly.08:31
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dm8tbrhm he left08:38
dm8tbrI wonder if device lock prevents this: flasher --load -k vmlinuz- -n initrd.img-rescue- --boot08:38
Stskeepsit does08:38
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dm8tbrok, thanks08:38
dm8tbrthat would make dual-booting for me quite cumbersome as I have to use device lock due to MfE08:39
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Sazpaimonharmattan could use a variant08:45
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Sazpaimoni cant even browse the sdk repository directory09:03
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RST38bisWell. Moo.09:48
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RST38hgood moorning09:52
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Sazpaimonhas anyone build ffmpeg for harmattan?10:02
Sazpaimonits a dependency for lightspark and I want to know if there's a deb for libavcodec anywhere before i go out of my way to build ffmpeg10:02
xarcassSazpaimon: there was a guy maybe a month ago, who has successfully built ffmpeg, but I cannot remember his nick. Begins with 'r', but I'm not sure10:05
xarcassSazpaimon: found it in channel logs: "rm_worknpm: ah, got it! need to test it out, but looks like ffmpeg finally compiled"10:07
Sazpaimonno deb handy though10:08
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dm8tbrnow if he had used COBS...10:08
Sazpaimonguess Ill do it myself10:09
Sazpaimonwith its umpteen dependencies10:09
hiemanshuSazpaimon: check rzr's repo10:09
Sazpaimoni did10:09
Sazpaimonno libav* in there10:10
hiemanshuah ok10:10
hiemanshuuse the debian package and compile it for harmattan10:10
Sazpaimonthats what I'm doing10:10
Sazpaimonthe squeeze-backports package specifically10:10
Sazpaimonxarcass, build status: excluded10:10
xarcassSazpaimon: oops10:11
hiemanshuxarcass: thats not for harmattan sadly, it has a .spec and not .dsc :P10:11
xarcasssorry, haven't noticed that. excuse my ignorance10:11
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Sazpaimonoh god none of these codecs exist in harmattan10:12
SazpaimonI'll need to compile xvid, x264, theora, rtmp10:12
Sazpaimonwhat a hassle10:13
Sazpaimonthere isnt even libmp3lame-dev10:13
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meceSazpaimon, we need the official(ish) community repo for these things.10:14
sandst1Sazpaimon: all of those have got possible patent problems, which makes it quite natural that they're not included by default10:14
sandst1or at least most10:14
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RST38hmece: ?10:16
meceRST38h, what the... what?10:17
RST38hmece: a repository10:17
meceoh. yes. well was thinking about formeego.com10:18
Sazpaimondoes the harmattan fennec port support standard netscape plugins10:18
Sazpaimonie. in /home/user/.mozilla/plugin10:18
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hiemanshuSazpaimon: thats were I saw the libav stuff10:28
Sazpaimonare these built for maemo 5 or 6?10:30
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Sazpaimonlooks like harmattan, okay10:32
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djszapiX-Fade: Do you have an idea for the publish issue about raptor2 I reported on the bugzilla ?10:57
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* artemma received "notice of potential Intellectual Property Rights (IPR) infringements with regards to the content you have submitted".. I just allow users to see flickr photos in the app, I don't sell the photos. Aren't all flickr browsers doing the same?10:58
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matrixxdoes other flickr browsers allow to save the images on device, or just browse?11:00
matrixxthough it shouldn't matter, aren't the images allowed to be used in non-commercial purposes anyway11:01
artemmamatrixx: there are different ones. There are automated wallpaper setters for Windows for example11:01
artemmamatrixx: no most of images are never allowed to use for free, but it shouldn't matter as I am not publishing them11:01
matrixxof course if some other app does it, it's not a proof that they are allowed to do it either :)11:02
artemmawell, I am still hoping for clarification. In the worst case I'll have to switch to some crappy free for commerial use group :)11:02
decibyteartemma: i think they may be right if you start selling your app.11:02
artemmaBTW, if you like, you can beta-test the fixed version11:02
artemmaworks by now11:02
artemmadecibyte: selling the app is different from selling the photo11:02
artemmaactually price of app shouldn't matter at all (mine is free, but there should be no difference)11:03
matrixxartemma: great, I can't right now, but after 18PM I can11:03
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decibyteartemma: well... _I_ agree, but I'm sure their lawyers will convince the court that you are selling access to the photos.11:03
decibyteartemma: i actually thought about it yesterday, that you might be doing something they don't like.11:04
artemmawell, I am trying to browse flickr faqs and terms and google, pretty difficult stuff to me11:04
artemmadecibyte: there are other flickr browsers in ovi store11:04
artemmaplenty of them11:04
artemmamaybe it was just some buyer clicking on "report" link11:04
artemmaneed to clarify it in the app description maybe11:05
djszapiartemma: you always say what other apps do, but do you ever consider if other apps do things good ?11:05
decibyteartemma: but! if you make sure to only serve public domain photos or those licenced with a cc licence allowing redistribution, you will be okay.11:05
artemmadjszapi: yeah, I tried thinking it over with the power available to my mind11:05
decibyteartemma: flickr may have also sent ingfringement notices to other app developers.11:06
artemmamatrixx: here's a link if you'd like to give it a try -
matrixxI'll save it in my backlog, I'm not at my own puter right now11:06
artemmadecibyte: I don't think users should be prevented from searching for copyrighted images. Maybe I should not do that by default though11:07
decibyteartemma: unfortunately it's not about what _you_ think, but what _they_ think11:07
artemmaagain, I think even searching for copyrighted stuff doesn't break anything, but at least user will have a chance to read the copyright warning before seeing the copyrighted pics11:07
decibyteagain, you're in a grey area if you start charging money for delivering the images.11:09
artemmaapp is going to stay free at least until I see if there's enough interest11:10
artemmawell, until Christmas I promised to keep it free for sure11:10
decibytebut i'm a bit surprised that a web savvy company like flickr(/yahoo) is this rigid when it comes to this.11:10
artemmaI don't think yahoo itself posted the notice :)11:10
decibytewho sent it?11:10
artemmathat's what I am trying to figure out now11:11
artemmathat was just email from ovi store suport11:11
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decibytemaybe it's the ovi staff preempting a possible lawsuit. just trying to clear their back.11:12
artemmawell, some flickr apps are in the ovi store, I don't mind complying with ovi regulations een if they are more strict than what law actually requires. I just need to know the limits11:13
decibytethere's so much stupidity and fear in the copyright field. and too many companies with too much money to spend og too expensive lawyers.11:13
decibytevery sad if this kills your great idea11:14
decibytemaybe you could do your homework, contact flickr and ask if it's okay what you're doing--even if you're planning to sell the app. if they're okay with it, then tell it to the ovi people.11:15
RST38hartemma: then11:16
artemmai don't think flickr clearly replies to this kind of requests - they protect themselves as well. And if they do answer, these answer got to be online somewhere - I am searching fro it11:17
artemmaRST38h: ?11:17
decibytegood luck, anyways :)11:17
RST38hartemma: Contact rm_you here, ask him to upload your stuff to his repo11:18
RST38hartemma: So that it is available for all Harmattan users.11:18
artemmaRST38h: I want to bring app to all the ovi users11:18
artemmathere's too small amount of N9 owners to limit app even more, only to guys who know about repos11:19
RST38hartemma: Ovi evidently disagrees with you11:19
RST38hartemma: But I am sure you can submit a bunch of "apps" wrapping URLs to Ovi and these will pass all checks :)11:20
ZogGRST38h, privet, sup?11:21
artemmaZogG: you forgot "matryoshka" and "vodka" :)11:23
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ZogGartemma i NEVER forget those things11:24
matrixxI have a t-shirt which says, vodka - connecting people :]11:25
RST38hZogG: The usual shit11:25
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ZogGRST38h got n9 or just n950?11:26
RST38hartemma: file under Apps/Psychedelic if Ovi has such a category (and it really should)11:26
RST38hZogG: N95011:26
RST38hZogG: Got all of my stuff ported to it, except for SlideRule.11:26
artemmamatrixx: it does connect people. At least until a certain amount of it :)11:26
RST38hEven managed to push all the apps into Ovi Store11:26
matrixxartemma: yeah :)11:27
ZogGRST38h cool11:27
ZogGthinking of getting n911:27
splyyshis possible to use the maps the ovi maps app has downloaded in your own app?11:28
RST38hZogG: By all means, the system, however doomed it is, is mightly cool11:28
RST38hsplyysh: Yes, see QML map api11:29
ZogGRST38h that's the problem, the price for doomed system is too high =)11:29
RST38hI think there is also an MTF widget for displaying these maps11:29
RST38hZogG: Well, mentally replace it with an Android phone and consider if you are going to be using the same phone in 2 years11:30
RST38hZogG: And how it is going to be different from not using N9 in 2 years11:30
ZogGi have iphone for now as i had it in box (wanted to sell) and n900 got usb out =(11:30
ZogGRST38h the main question is always the apps11:31
ZogGlike whatsapp and so on11:31
* gri does not know anyone who uses whatsapp11:31
matrixxwhat's whatsapp?11:31
gria service which uses the push notifications for messaging11:31
ZogGmatrixx is cool messenger based on jabber11:32
matrixxok :)11:32
grior that11:32
grisomething in between :)11:32
ZogGmatrixx but you can't replace it with jabber client =(11:32
matrixxok :/11:33
RST38hZogG: You are going to have sufficient amount of apps11:33
griyou can read a lot of rss feeds :P11:34
RST38hZogG: Not shitloads of them, like on Android, but Android shitloads smell11:34
ZogGi know11:34
ZogGbut you know there are always few very good apps noone can port as they are closed source11:34
RST38hOvi QA is laying eggs this morning!11:35
matrixxI'm already overwhelmed about the number of the apps in ovi store for N911:36
matrixxdidn't expect that many11:36
deramZogG: the closed source ones are probably the ones that will be rewritten fastest, if there is something usefull in that app...11:37
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griif they don't use a proprietary webservice ...11:38
ZogGderam i don't think so, as it lways depends on developer, who would consider that meego phones doesn't worth it11:38
deramnothing makes opensource dev code faster than knowing there is needed application he can't have11:38
derambut yes.. if it uses proprietary webservice, then it is a problem11:39
deramZogG: it does not have to be the author of the original program...11:39
splyyshRST38h, I have seen the documentation but cant find a way to use the maps offline11:39
splyyshor switch to night mode like on the maps app on n911:39
ZogGderm but not all services provide API =)11:40
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griZogG: Sometimes they provide an api if you ask them and tell them your plans even if they don't offer it publicly11:40
deramZogG: that is true.. but if there is a need, there is a way... even if it means writing new webservice just for that...11:41
artemmaIs it really so that there is no ready-made component for selectors (click to open a selection dialog) -
artemmaso that kind of button/selector needs to be coded manually11:42
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mecerzr repo works on N9 as well as N950, right?11:52
RST38hno reason why not11:54
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fluxthere is actually a reason11:56
fluxn950 has pr1.1, right?11:56
fluxor something different in anyway. because I tried installing rsync from rzr repos, failed due to dependencies.11:56
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fluxbut if someone manages to do it, I'll be happy to hear from them :)11:57
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RST38hYeah, N950 has got a few things N9 has not11:59
RST38hBut it is going to be the same story with ovi Store11:59
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aheineckeflux i've installed quite a lot from rzr repo on the n9 you probably need the harmattan sdk repo additionaly this is not default on the n912:48
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fluxaheinecke, ah, that may be it13:05
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Corsacgrmbl, tried to enable developer mode and same thing happened to me13:18
KaadlajkCorsac: does it still boot after that?13:21
Kaadlajkoh the post says reboot loop13:23
Corsacyeah, reboot loop then the message about device malfunctioning13:23
Corsacand advising to flash13:23
Corsac(but I don't know where to find the relevant firmware image)13:24
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Corsacany idea where to find them?13:34
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Wirtainteresting, when I build a deb package with Qt it only includes changelog & copyright data, nothing else.13:39
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tommaWirta, maybe you should install executable and .desktop file also?13:50
deramis there some big reason why cyan and black N9 have different firmware?14:01
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SpeedEvilI'd imagine release dates14:01
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Corsacwoot, seems the device's back14:07
Corsacfunny, n9 asks for pin before security lock14:07
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Corsacwhile n900 asked it after14:07
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deramCorsac: E71 asked pin first devlock second14:08
deramand that has been the trend for ages..14:09
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DocScrutinizerCorsac: deram: obviously reasonable, as 911 calls from PIN dialog are way more logical than from devlock code query14:33
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DocScrutinizerand ensuring 911 - even without SIM inserted - is an important and mandatory part of GSM specs for all devices to comply/support14:34
SpeedEvilWhich is quite irrelevant in the UK.14:34
DocScrutinizerhere (D) as well14:35
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DocScrutinizeractually that changed just recently, been like 911_always for like since birth of GSM, and they tear it down some 2 years ago14:36
DocScrutinizerallegedly due to excessive abuse, but my suspicions are quite different, buzzword automotive madatory automated 91114:37
DocScrutinizercarriers won't provide the 911 function for free to all car manufs14:38
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toninikkanen911 is some american thing, doesn't gsm specify 11214:43
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deramI think gsm specify local emergency number, and all phones seem to react to 911, 112, 000, etc..14:49
DocScrutinizertoninikkanen: actually GSM specifies a number of ways to define local emergency numbers, 911 and 112 being hardcoded though14:50
DocScrutinizeror what deram said :-D14:50
toninikkanen911 must be a new thing, it wasn't there in 2001 when I last messed with GSM technology ;) maybe to accommodate for europeans who watch too many american police tv series14:50
DocScrutinizer911 is USA14:51
toninikkanenthat's what i'm saying14:51
DocScrutinizermaybe in 2001 the devices you messed with weren't sold in USA14:52
toninikkanenif you remember the old days when landlines were still used by someone, 112 wa the european emergency number, 911 was USA, also many countries had their totally own numbers. GSM specified that wherever you are, 112 will work14:52
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toninikkanenyeah who knows, was there any GSM in USA in 2001... it never got too popular there14:52
DocScrutinizerprolly not14:52
toninikkanentwo great things about GSM were a) separation of subscription and the actual phone device and b) standardizing the emergency call number14:53
toninikkanenof course operators are working hard to break part a) everywhere14:53
CorsacDocScrutinizer: well, as long as you can dial from the lock code screen, GSM reqs are fitted14:54
DocScrutinizererr yes. And?14:54
Tronictoninikkanen: If only EU had chosen 911 instead of 112...14:54
TronicApparently 112 is too easy to pocket-dial.14:55
toninikkanenyeah it is14:55
DocScrutinizeris that invalidating my statement >> 911 calls from PIN dialog are way more logical than from devlock code query << ?14:55
toninikkanenthere's a certain number of pocket-dial calls emergency centers get every year14:55
DocScrutinizerno reason anyway to abolish SIM-free 911-calls14:56
DocScrutinizeras usually you will have a SIM in your phone anyway14:57
TronicIn Finland about 30 % of the 112 calls are not actual emergency calls, and the majority of those are pocket-dialing.14:57
TronicThat means about 1 million unneccessary calls each year.14:57
toninikkanenwith touch screen phones I think pocket dial calls are less likely to happen14:58
deramTronic: and that should not be a problem for emergencycallcenter to handle these unnecessary ones, or it would mean denial of service when somethin really happens14:58
toninikkanenone thing that I think was fixed was, that in older GSM systems if you dialled the emergency number, all other calls in that cell were dropped to ensure your call goes through14:59
toninikkanenthat got abused by some people I think :)14:59
X-FadeTronic: So about half of all people in Finland call 112 at least once a year?14:59
Tronicderam: I guess it'll take quite a bit of operators' time to determine if they should hang up or keep listening.14:59
X-FadeThat is quite a lot.15:00
deramtoninikkanen: that probably still works at least in gsm cells..15:00
toninikkaneni don't trust that number, what's the total number of emergency calls for finland per year?15:00
Tronictoninikkanen: 3 million.15:00
derambut not all other calls, just one15:00
DocScrutinizerrejecting calls is simple. It's the emergency call centers' obligation to react to so called "roechelanrufe" (somebody calling 911 and then not able to speak) that will drive them mad with pocket dialing15:00
toninikkanenincredible amount15:00
X-FadeI see only one explanation..... mid summer :)15:01
toninikkanenyes I see, it's correlation.. emergency calls cause midsumemr to happen, or what was that ice cream theory thing...15:01
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deram112 is still better number than 000...15:03
Arkenoiwhat is the official fbreader home now?15:03
CorsacDocScrutinizer: well, in n900 I disagree. I agree about n9 because the keyboard is by default alphabetic and not numeric, no idea why15:03
Corsac(well, fremantle lock code was numeric only, while the harmattan one is alphanum)15:03
DocScrutinizerCorsac: (fremantle numeric) not entirely sure about that15:04
deramCorsac: on N9, if device lock is on and phone is on, pin ok etc, there is a button for emergency call on screen...15:04
DocScrutinizerI think even GSM spec theoretically allows to set alfanum oin codes, via function calls15:04
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deramI'm pretty sure the pin code in sim is numeric only, yet it can handle total of 8 digits15:06
CorsacDocScrutinizer: I do have a lock code right now, and it's numeric only15:07
CorsacDocScrutinizer: but lock code is completely unrelated to GSM, isn't it?15:07
deramlock code is phone specific code15:08
DocScrutinizerand I don't see why you couldn't define a "foobar" lockcode on fremantle, using the proper dbus msgs15:08
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DocScrutinizerof course that would be funny to unlock15:08
Corsachmhm, interesting, you can chose a smiley theme for messages15:09
Corsacis there a “none” one already available?15:09
deramCorsac: I have been thinking the same thing15:09
deramand, what is sent when a smiley is selected from that menu... sms does not support smileys...15:10
matrixxhaha, if there's not "none" one yet, one could do a theme which would look like ascii smileys :D15:10
deram, meant smileys in icon form..15:10
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matrixxI guess there are turned into their ascii equivalent15:11
derammatrixx: probably yes... but it is not so easy to guess whati the other party gets when selecting from icons..15:12
matrixxmy device has lost all the smileys, I can see only "blank document" icon in place of any icon :(15:12
deramyou lucky one15:12
Corsacderam: if you type ':)' in an sms it's automagically tranformed in the corresponding image15:12
matrixxnot so lucky, I can't smell sarcasm/sadness/etc from other people's messages15:13
SpeedEvilYou can turn off smileys.15:13
matrixxwithout seeing the smileys15:13
DocScrutinizeron fremantle you can15:13
DocScrutinizermatrixx: you know the official sarcasm emoticon? :-o ¡15:14
derammatrixx: it does not whow the original characters?15:14
deramthat sucks15:15
DocScrutinizer<matrixx> my device has lost all the smileys, I can see only "blank document" icon15:15
matrixxhehe, no, but in some context I use ;( or >:] or some other nice one :)15:15
matrixxI think I'll try to turn the icons off15:15
matrixxI can see the ascii instead15:15
deramI thought he meant in that smiley menu... not inside the message15:15
matrixxyeah it's inside message15:16
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deramis there setting to turn those off?15:17
deramI can't find.15:17
matrixxI can't find such either15:17
matrixxSpeedEvil: where's such setting?15:17
deramthere is only "Emoticon theme" which does only show one theme, "Default"15:18
SpeedEvilmatrixx: Oops - I was talking about n900, sorry - mischan15:18
matrixxah, np :)15:19
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decibyteis there a way to manage sms from a terminal? i'm too lazy to reach out for the phone if i can ssh into it instead.15:34
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gridecibyte: no but should not be complicated to create a commandline client for that15:40
decibytegri: cool. is it telepathy all the way?15:40
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gridecibyte: more easy is using libcommhistory15:41
griit already has QAbstractItemModel implementations for groups and conversations15:41
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decibytegri: okay. i don't know anything about all that, but maybe it's a good project for learning.15:42
decibytei usually refuse to anything not python :)15:42
griwell, I refuse to anything python :P15:44
faenilgri: +1 :D15:44
decibytei guess +alot in here15:45
decibyteoh man. there's so many things i want to do with my phone, but so little time :(15:46
jabissame here15:48
faenilsame here :(15:49
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deramI remember thinking about the same about so much I'd like to do in my phone, but I refused to code symbian...15:50
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* jykae announces: MPoker available in Nokia Store15:54
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matrixxjykae: congrats15:57
jykaematrixx: thanks :)15:58
grifaenil: can't you get a second sim card?15:59
griso you have 10 € vs. possibly destroying your sim?15:59
faenilor no16:00
faenilI have 10€ vs 0 or 1016:00
griI had to pay 30 € for a multi sim :D16:00
grione number, two sim cards16:00
faenilwell let's start this surgery op16:01
grigood luck16:01
grifaenil: you have some photos to share from devdays?16:05
faenilyup, haven't seen them myself yet16:06
faeniltoo busy lately16:06
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faenilgri: no simcard detected...16:31
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Corsachmhm, is there an equivalent to the N900 power button menu (where you had the “secure device”, “switch off!” etc. items)?16:39
Corsac(in N9, not sure about N950)16:39
Corsacand an equivalent to the slider button, too16:39
fluxas far as I know, there isn't. but I haven't tried enabling the lock code, so I don't know if you can then somehow put it into the lock mode..16:40
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Corsacso what's the correct way to reboot or shutdown the phone?16:50
SpeedEvilhold the button16:52
Corsacyeah but that's a hard shutdown, isn't it?16:53
Hq`yes... for normal shutdown 3 (or something) seconds is enough16:54
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macmaNhas anyone here tried to play an mp3 or another audio thing that is no indexed in the library17:00
macmaNafaict, media player simply wont play it17:00
SpeedEvilI vaguely recall using 'easyexplorer'17:00
macmaNim browsing with File Manager17:01
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macmaNif the filename is the same as something that exists in the library, media player will open the one that exists in the library17:01
macmaNbut if its some new filename, nothing happens17:01
macmaNthere's a bunch of drumless tracks i dont want cluttering the library but the system seems too impotent for that17:03
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snowponganyone using QtSDK on Windows and developing for Harmattan these days? I still switch between Win7 and Ubuntu when doing Qt dev for either Symbian or the N9, and was just wondering if Win support had improved...18:14
toninikkanenhmmmm maybe you could use Linux as the host OS and setup the windows toolchain in a virtual machine, and then setup remote compiler to use the server in the virtual machine, and argh18:17
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Corsachmhm, just received an sms from my operator saying that my mobile (n9) can't receive MMS18:30
X-FadeSend out an mms and they will flag your device as capable.18:31
toninikkanengood scheme for making extra money, everyone has to send at least one mms :)18:32
Corsacaha :)18:33
matrixxsnowpong: I'm using win for both18:34
X-FadeCorsac: Or request settings, which you don't use.18:35
X-FadeCorsac: Usually that turns it on too.18:35
matrixxI'm still a bit lost if my app needs extra dependencies, handling that in scratchbox is just so much easier than with madde18:35
jabiswasn't python accessed from /usr/bin/env python - too long time since py scriptlets18:39
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jabis(writing a python pexpect script using rsync for automagically sending my backups to server when I do a MyMoves "B"-gesture)18:42
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jabisurgh - the aegis - already forgot that18:44
CorsacX-Fade: request settings?18:45
jabisuhm /usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l '/usr/bin/meego-terminal -e /usr/bin/python -i /home/user/MyDocs/' should work no?18:52
jabisuh oh my bad - wrong hashbang18:53
jabisno wonder geez -.-18:54
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leinirhmm... rlinfanti, anybody know who that is, or whether they've released the harmattan package they seem to be building? :)19:00
leinirrlinfati even19:00
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Corsac ?19:10
leinirAah, just found it on :)
Corsacoh, is usable?19:12
leinirLooks to be :)19:13
Corsachmhm, how are we supposed to use it?19:15
Corsacwill there be some kind of “Store” application?19:15
leinirthat'd be kind of nice, yes19:17
leiniri'm guessing (without knowing) that it's backend supports OCS, though...19:18
ZogGgonna buy n9 64 gb any advices before?19:18
leinirNot really - just make sure you have a microsim handy :)19:20
CorsacX-Fade: ping?19:20
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ZogGleinirmicrosim handy?19:22
* npm wonders if a location based "occupy wallstreet" app/aggregator would be against ovi store rules19:23
leinirZogG: since it doesn't take a normal mini-sim, you need a microsim for the n9 :)19:23
ZogGleinir, i have onei  made myself from regular one with scissors =) and i can go to operator and change to new one with no problem =)19:23
leinirnpm: it wouldn't, why'd that be against the rules? :)19:23
leinirZogG: Aah, that should work fine then :)19:23
ZogGleinir, oh, it's something other than iphones?19:23
npmi dunno, have you seen their rules?19:23
leinirZogG: other than that, can't think of anything you should really be aware of :)19:23
leinirnpm: i've got an app on there, they're pretty straight forward :)19:23
npmit's like if someone got nekkid by accident it could be pornography19:24
ZogGleinir, but wait does iphone use mini sim or microsim?19:24
leinirThat's social media, not something you have put into the app :)19:24
leinirZogG: the iphone uses a microsim, minisim's the normal one - they're just called that, i haven't seen one that actually uses a sim since... oh, mid nineties? ;)19:24
npmlike if you searched for in said hoped for occupy app19:25
ZogGso how does sim looks like?19:25
leinirZogG: full credit card size ;)19:25
ZogGleinir oh smart card19:25
ZogGleinir, btw i have smartcard reader, can i hack into sims? or it's encrypted or what ever?19:26
leinirdon't actually know, i'm afraid :)19:26
ZogGalways wanted to try to copy stuff from simcard as they do in operator salons19:28
dm8tbryou can read the sim card content after authenticating with a pin19:28
dm8tbra standard smart card reader and simple application are enough19:29
ZogGfound one =)19:29
ZogGleinir, dm8tbr
ZogGmono =(19:31
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djszapiwonder why the nfs game requests Location global token.19:32
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jabisis the correct place for the backups ~/MyDocs/.backups/* ?19:43
trxnot if you want to backup ~/MyDocs/ :)19:44
trxotherwise i assume so19:44
jabisI meant the builtin backup-tool19:45
trxno idea19:45
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jabismy niner is at the office so it'd be cool if someone could check :)19:46
jabis(left it there by accident and QEMU is dead slow ;< )19:46
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dm8tbrjabis: yes20:21
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jabisdm8tbr: thanks20:42
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merlin1991according to there are n9 firmware images somewhere, but where?20:46
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jabismerlin1991: navifirm - look at your simtray for the correct model21:07
jabismerlin1991: just picking a random image will brick your phone21:07
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jabismerlin1991: also  there is only the 34-1 on hand, the PR1.1 hasn't come out yet21:08
merlin1991may I ask wtf navifirm is?21:10
jabisgoogle is your friend21:10
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dm8tbrjabis: AFAIU n950 pr1.1 _is_ more or less equivalent to n9 pr1.0. I might be wrong ofc.21:12
jabisdm8tbr: true dat - kernel version seems to be the same and so on :)21:14
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merlin1991am I assuming correctly, that the firmway image isn't avaiaible through official channels? (navifirm looks a bit unofficial to me :D)21:17
infobotmerlin1991 meant: am I assuming correctly, that the firmware image isn't avaiaible through official channels? (navifirm looks a bit unofficial to me :D)21:17
jabisproduction external, nokia care and some other servers are listed there - and no it's by no means "official channel" - since no official one click flashers have been made available even for PR1.021:19
jabis(on n9 that is)21:20
merlin1991I hope we'll got one with the announced 1.121:21
merlin1991I got a feeling I'm about to brick my n9 really soon21:21
jabiswhy is that? X)21:22
npmdon't brick your n9, my friend,  pass it to me....21:23
* npm sings21:23
jabisI could use another too21:23
jabisjust for testing purposes (since no N950)21:23
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merlin1991jabis: because I tend to test things that brick devices21:39
jabisan expensive toy you've got there just for testing X)21:45
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merlin1991I think I flashed my n900 about 20 times21:48
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merlin1991the first time because the initial firmware had an inbuilt brick feature, that bricked the device after about 20 sw reboots21:49
Stskeepsheh heh21:49
Stskeepsyeah, that was a good one21:49
merlin1991I got my n900, inserted sim, ran off to university and 2 hrs later I couldn't use it anymore because it already had crashed too often21:50
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Sazpaimondoes the harmattan fennec port support standard netscape plugins21:52
Sazpaimonie. in /home/user/.mozilla/plugin21:52
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Sazpaimonalso does the N9 have any support for openvg?22:01
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Stskeepsthink openvg's installed22:02
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Sazpaimonls: cannot access /usr/include/VG: No such file or directory22:02
Sazpaimonthats in the SDK22:02
Arkenoileinir: i've seen two latitude updaters but no decent way to see friends on the map :-(22:04
Sazpaimoncant find any openvg package in the SDK22:05
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SazpaimonStskeeps, can you point me in the direction as to where the openvg libraries are?22:34
StskeepsSazpaimon: /usr/lib/ i would think22:35
Sazpaimoni dont see anything22:35
Sazpaimonnor do I see the include files22:35
Stskeepsmight not be a supported api22:35
Sazpaimonthere should be a /usr/include/VG22:35
Sazpaimonbut there is not22:35
Sazpaimonthe gpu is supposed to support openvg, isnt it?22:36
Sazpaimonokay wait, i see /usr/lib/libOpenVG.so22:36
Sazpaimonbut there are no include files22:36
Sazpaimonso I can't compile anything for it22:36
Sazpaimonwhat the hell22:37
SazpaimonStskeeps, i think maemo 5 had the same issue iirc22:40
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Sazpaimonit has the libraries available, but no headers to actually make use of them22:40
Venemo_webchathey guys22:43
Venemo_webchat~seen javispedro22:43
Venemo_webchathey djszapi :)22:43
infobotjavispedro <~javier@Maemo/community/contributor/javispedro> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 21h 37m 48s ago, saying: 'nah nah nah nah..'.22:43
jabisyay - my beloved co-worker brought my niner ^^ now I can test the pyrsync-script I wrote :)22:45
jabisyeah - it worxors \o/22:47
Sazpaimonended up downloading the openvg header files from, khronos manually22:47
Sazpaimonno idea if that will work22:47
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Venemo_webchatDocScrutinizer: ping22:56
DocScrutinizerVenemo_webchat: pong22:56
Venemo_webchatDocScrutinizer: just asking you about this because you're a regular on this channel.22:57
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Venemo_webchatis there a known way to run arbitrary binaries on 39-5?22:57
DocScrutinizerwell, probably user still can do this?22:58
DocScrutinizernot root though22:59
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Venemo_webchatok, how can da user do this?23:03
jabis/full/path/to/binary ? :)23:05
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Venemo_webchatjabis: that gives "operation not permitted" afaik23:08
Venemo_webchator has this behaviour changed since last time I checked?23:10
jabisI'm not using 950 I can't say for certain x)23:11
jabisdunno how much differences there are - perhaps an aegis-exec then?23:13
Venemo_webchatjabis: how does aegis-exec work?23:13
jabisI use it to invoke python scripts via meego-terminal23:13
jabis/usr/bin/aegis-exec -s -u user -l '/usr/bin/meego-terminal'23:14
Venemo_webchatwell I want to run my stuff from Qt Creator without packaging them23:14
Venemo_webchatpackaging takes 10× long than compiling, so it's futile23:14
merlin1991Venemo_webchat: I've been able to run a qt application on the n9 by simply running it (it didn't need any aegis tokens though)23:15
Venemo_webchatmerlin1991: mine doesn't either23:16
Venemo_webchatso what, relaxed exec no longer needed?23:16
Venemo_webchatthat's neat!23:16
merlin1991hm my software version is 10.2011.34-1_PR_00123:17
jabis39-5 is for 950 - there is no other firmware for N923:18
merlin1991ah k23:18
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Venemo_webchatfuck no. still getting "operation not permitted"23:20
Venemo_webchatmerlin1991, jabis: both aegis-exec and just running the binary gives "operation not permitted"23:25
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Venemo_webchatI can't debug my fucking app this way23:27
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