IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-10-29

ajalkaneuh... is there some sort of secret handshake that has to be done before gitorious accepts pushes to newly created repositories?00:01
ieatlintgit init?00:02
*** miroslav has quit IRC00:02
ajalkaneI used QtCreator to do the local repo, then gitorious www interface to create a repo there. Then tried git remoteadd origin
ajalkaneouch sorry I meant tried git remote push origin master00:02
ajalkaneieatlint: as far as I understand QtCreator did the init00:03
ajalkaneat least there's the .git directory with all sorts of stuff00:03
ajalkaneI get == Gitorious: ==========================================================00:03
ajalkaneAccess denied or wrong repository path00:03
*** lardman has quit IRC00:04
ajalkaneSometimes it feels a lot of hassle to be an open source developer :)00:04
javispedroyou don't have to use gitorious you know ;P00:04
ajalkanejavispedro: I know... just thought it would be nice, it being the most "open" of these git repos00:05
*** harbaum has quit IRC00:05
ieatlintdid you add the remote origin on it?00:06
ajalkaneieatlint: yeah, according to gitorious' FAQ into .git/config00:06
ajalkanebasically copy-pasted and changed project to my own project00:07
ieatlintyou generally use git remote00:07
ajalkaneI'm not too well-versed with git00:07
*** niqt has joined #harmattan00:07
ajalkaneokay... I'll try with that. Revoke my changes, and try with git remote.00:07
ieatlinttry a gui here :P00:07
*** lardman has joined #harmattan00:08
ajalkanewhat's a good gui for that in Linux?00:08
ieatlinti don't have a good suggestion :(00:08
ajalkaneUsing git remote add origin
ajalkanegave the same error00:09
*** lizardo has quit IRC00:09
ajalkaneI'm kinda suspecting that /repository.git doesn't exist. But I'd think it's in gitorious end00:10
ajalkaneI'm looking at my project page, and it doesn't have the usual buttons like "Clone repository", "Source tree" etc. Just "Activities"00:12
ajalkaneI think I'm missing something really basic00:12
*** _MeeGoBot_ has quit IRC00:12
*** [XeN] is now known as thosch00:14
*** _MeeGoBot_ has joined #harmattan00:14
*** ChanServ sets mode: +v _MeeGoBot_00:14
ajalkaneThis kinda sucks. I'm schooling the baby for night sleeping without his mother, trying to drink beer, and having gitorious being a bitch at me.00:14
*** thosch is now known as XeN00:15
ajalkaneMaybe I'll try taking my "business" to github00:15
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan00:15
ajalkaneWow... GitHub's instructions are like... "Welcome, idiot. Here's some pictures and verbose blabbering about how to do it". I like it!00:17
*** spenap has quit IRC00:21
* SpeedEvil looks up the safe units of alcohol per week for babies.00:28
ieatlintthey underestimate that shit, just assume 20 is safe00:29
*** lardman has quit IRC00:29
ajalkaneOkay, it immediately worked with github. I guess gitorious just sucks.00:30
ieatlintwell, it is opensource00:30
ajalkaneI take it back... maybe QtCreator just sucks doing git init. It could be that too.00:31
ajalkaneTo think about it, that's more likely00:31
ieatlintwell, it is opensource00:31
ajalkaneGod bless opensource.00:32
ajalkaneNow I can fix it00:32
jabisif it worked with github with the same repo - it couldn't be QtCreator x)00:32
ajalkanejabis: I don't know, because I started over with github... ie. I did git init from command-line, with gitorious I did it the initialization from QtCreator. So it could be QtCreator did some weird stuff.00:33
ieatlinti've never liked the qtcreator git integration00:33
ajalkaneieatlint: So far I'm not really sure what's the integration. I can't even see where's "add file to git"00:34
ieatlintwhen you add a file to the project it will ask00:34
ajalkaneThat sucks00:34
ieatlintsaving files updates them in git as i recall00:34
jabisI always use just command-line when gitting - so much less greavances00:34
ajalkaneMost of the time I'm copying some existing file, not using QtCreator's magical new file wizards00:34
ieatlintit comes off more like autosave with version history00:34
ieatlintif i used it on a distributed project with random commits and no messages, i suspect my coworkers would be rather angry00:35
ajalkaneThat sounds like broken versioning00:36
ajalkaneDoes it auto detect that I have .git folder that or can I turn that kind of shit off?00:36
ajalkane*that -> there00:36
ieatlintyes, to both00:36
ajalkaneyou remember where's the off switch?00:37
ajalkaneI see in Settings -> Git "Prompt on submit". No idea what's that about.00:37
ieatlintno, not as such00:37
jabisa few comedians in a team I lead, seem to think it's ok to only commit upon minor version changes -.-00:37
ieatlinti myself will do single line commits with messages like "felt a blank new line was prudent to add here", following by a 200 line commit with "made some changes" commit log00:38
ajalkaneWell, I gots me code in some sort of repository. It's not gitorious as I dreamt in my high-fidelity dreams, but at least its somewhere. Now if only Ovi Store would work with new publishers. Ovi sucks.00:39
ieatlinti also like to keep changes saved up, and just before my coworkers are about to push, i beat them00:39
ajalkaneI like to snicker in a cryptic commit just before I go on holiday, that breaks the system. Fun times.00:39
*** leinir has quit IRC00:40
ajalkaneOkay... I only do that by accident. But fun times nevertheless.00:40
ieatlintyou must like having your holiday interrupted with an urgent phone call then00:40
ajalkaneI rarely answer work related calls on my holiday. It's my time.00:41
ajalkaneNah, who am I kidding. Of course I often answer them.00:41
ieatlintyeah, i signed my life away00:42
ieatlintin exchange i get a free company branded shirt and coffee mug each year00:42
ajalkaneI mean, I'm yelling at the kids, or listening at yelling from the phone. I choose the phone.00:42
ieatlintoh, they gave me a company branded 2gb usb flash drive too00:42
ajalkaneCool. I'm getting a damn shirt this christmas. Happy days.00:42
ieatlintembarrass your kids, make them use symbian phones00:43
ajalkaneOh... shit... I forgot to order it00:43
ajalkaneThe kid that understand anything about electronics is already fixated to my MeeGo phone. I don't think a Symbian will do anymore.00:43
ajalkaneThere's been a couple of times when he's found the N950 from somewhere, and comes to me saying "look how strong I am" carrying the phone. I'm always terrified.00:45
GeneralAntillesWhy is Harmattan always demanding I pick a connection?00:46
GeneralAntillesMy previous Maemo devices handled that just fine on their own.00:46
javispedroyou mean, when there's a connection available?00:49
javispedroor when there's not?00:49
GeneralAntillesWhen there's not00:51
GeneralAntillesWhen I'm transitioning.00:51
javispedroso there is =)00:51
GeneralAntillesI want "If you can't find a known WiFi to connect to, just use the damn 3G"00:51
GeneralAntillesI don't want it throwing connection lists at me unless I specifically ask for one.00:51
GeneralAntillesSo, there's always a connection available in the form of cellular data00:52
GeneralAntillesbut it throws a list when it loses its WiFi.00:52
javispedroI'm sadly too used to the pick-a-connection dialog appearing every so often, as I don't have a data contract yet.00:52
javispedrobut here's something fun to try00:52
javispedroopen the twitter app when there's no data connection00:52
javispedrotry to get out of the loop in less than five minutes without resorting to the power button.00:52
javispedroit spawns pick-a-connection dialogs so fast there's no way to swipe out of it00:53
javispedroso you can't close the twitter app, so it keeps spamming connection dialogs.00:53
ajalkaneGeneralAntilles: Settings -> Internet Connection -> Edit networks -> [Select your provider] -> Use automatically00:53
GeneralAntillesajalkane, yes, it's turned on00:54
GeneralAntillesThus my complaint about it not behaving correctly.00:54
ajalkaneGeneralAntilles: I guess it's a bug then. It worked in beta1 at least correctly00:54
ajalkaneI haven't tried it on the latest firmwares. But will do now since it's been bugging me for a while00:54
messertingAnyone knows if mBarcode (Maemo/N900) has been ported to Harmattan (N9)?00:54
ajalkanemesserting: as far as I know not yet, but I've seen such chitter-chatter on this channel that I think something similar is in works, if not the precise app00:56
*** _MeeGoBot_ has quit IRC00:58
messertingajalkane: ok, thanks. I'd love to have a QR code app really soon ;)01:01
javispedroOBS is as slow to start as usual.01:04
*** NIN101 has quit IRC01:17
*** NIN101 has joined #harmattan01:19
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC01:27
*** faenil has joined #harmattan01:28
faenilheya people! :P01:28
*** baraujo has quit IRC01:30
ajalkaneCool, "Nokia tries to escalate that positive effect even more by giving away 25 000 Nokia Lumia 800 phones for developers."01:31
faenilajalkane: yup, no details about that though01:32
ajalkaneHarmattan got 250 + unspecified number for commercial devs :)01:32
ajalkaneIf I may be so blunt, if they offer it to me, I will refuse it.01:32
ajalkaneIf I were developing software for money, I'd certainly consider and probably even take it, but as I'm doing it on my freetime for fun, I will not waste time on Windows01:33
faenilgood night people :)01:36
jabisI'm not too enthused either - we're considering a company strategy on starting serious mobile development with an ERP system integrated tightly with microsoft01:36
jabisso I might be "forced" to consider it x)01:36
*** faenil has quit IRC01:37
ajalkaneOh, I'm doing anything they want at work, that's what they pay me. Doing stuff on ESB's is not much fun either, but if it's my freetime then I'm not doing ESBs or WP7s :)01:37
* ajalkane gone sleeping01:43
Fryeoh my head hurts, all day iPhone stuff and no time for my own N9 :-(01:44
*** niqt has quit IRC01:56
*** messerting has quit IRC02:00
*** MohammadAG has quit IRC02:25
*** MohammadAG has joined #harmattan02:25
MohammadAGSoundhound is an epic app02:29
MohammadAGwish they'd expose an API or make a MeeGo version :/02:29
*** Natunen has quit IRC02:29
*** rcg2 has quit IRC02:40
*** crevetor has quit IRC02:49
*** arcean has quit IRC03:02
*** deimos has quit IRC03:17
*** crevetor has joined #harmattan03:17
*** crevetor has left #harmattan03:18
*** tomhut has quit IRC03:21
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC03:21
*** Stskeeps has joined #harmattan03:22
*** Stskeeps has joined #harmattan03:22
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC03:26
*** tomhut has joined #harmattan03:34
*** [XeN] has quit IRC03:48
*** NIN101 has quit IRC03:54
*** KaziKluBey has joined #harmattan03:57
*** javispedro has quit IRC04:07
*** seif is now known as seiflotfy04:10
*** KaziKluBey has quit IRC04:22
*** pcfe has quit IRC05:15
*** pcfe has joined #harmattan05:41
*** berndhs_meego has joined #harmattan06:09
*** berndhs_meego has quit IRC06:28
*** berndhs_meego has joined #harmattan06:39
*** Natunen has joined #harmattan07:02
*** DocScrutinizer has quit IRC07:59
*** DocScrutinizer has joined #harmattan07:59
*** pabs3 has joined #harmattan08:16
pabs3what does the default N9/N950 apt sources.list look like?08:17
*** radiofree has quit IRC08:34
*** harbaum has joined #harmattan08:44
*** harbaum has quit IRC08:49
*** Qantourisc has quit IRC09:10
*** messerting has joined #harmattan09:23
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan09:28
*** druid23 has left #harmattan09:28
*** berndhs_meego has quit IRC09:50
messertingHi, my Nokia N9 is connected to my router, but isn't able to go online, not even reach the router web page.10:09
messerting"dmesg" reports: "wl1271: AP with dysfunctional ps-poll, trying to work around it."10:09
messertingMy router is a Linksys WRT54G, which has worked flawlessly in the past. But is is lacking this ps-poll feature? I run modified linux firmware on the router.10:10
npmwhat do you call the "titlebar" on harmattan w/ the wireless strength, wifi, clock etc10:12
npmaka the thing that goes away when you go "fullscreen"10:12
pabs3messerting: Googling for that error suggests turning off WMM APSD on the router10:13
messertingpabs3: Hm, thanks, I will try to find that setting10:13
npm"status bar" per
messertingI found the setting for WRT54G HyperWRT: Application and Gaming, QoS, bottom of the page. Have now turned WMM off, so let's see how it works :)10:22
messertingI guess this might explain why I have had my wi-fi icon blinking/changing to "2.5" icon quite frequently when at home.10:23
stroughtonsmithanybody here willing to test a .deb for me before I submit it to Ovi?10:32
messertingLooking at dmesg now, my Nokia N9 "complains":  Aegis: cannot measure file orcexec.ImGvbo (process: queue20:src)10:33
messertingstroughtonsmith: Well, if there was a reflasher for the N9 available...10:33
stroughtonsmithmesserting: you done broke yours? :D10:34
pabs3anyone know the default N9/N950 apt sources.list looks like?10:35
*** Stecchino_ has joined #harmattan10:38
*** Stecchino has quit IRC10:39
messertingstroughtonsmith: I haven't  broken it yet ;)10:41
messerting pabs3 I can check10:43
messertingpabs3: this is with devel mode enabled though...:
*** rcg has joined #harmattan10:44
messertingpabs3: hm, did I just reveal some private passwords now? :/10:45
messertingjust googled, seems they are not private :)10:45
messertingpabs3: btw, one of them fails when I do apt-get update: W: Failed to fetch  The requested URL returned error: 40410:49
messertingand the filemanager isn't default I think, I installed it myself from ovi store10:51
*** Stecchino_ is now known as Stecchino10:58
*** Stecchino has joined #harmattan10:58
*** Jonno_ has joined #harmattan11:24
*** Stecchino has quit IRC11:26
*** Jonno has quit IRC11:27
*** trx has quit IRC11:41
*** trx has joined #harmattan11:46
*** messerting has quit IRC11:46
*** clbr has joined #harmattan11:47
*** dominikb has joined #harmattan11:48
*** dominikb has quit IRC11:51
*** leinir has joined #harmattan12:08
*** achipa has joined #harmattan12:17
*** faenil has joined #harmattan12:29
faenilmorning peopleeee12:29
hiemanshumorning faenil12:30
faenilhey hiemanshu how you doing :)12:30
hiemanshupretty good12:30
hiemanshufinding a date for the halloween party tonight :D12:31
faeniloh right xD I forgot about that one xD12:31
hiemanshuwell I am in India, but costume parties are always fun :D12:31
*** lbt_away is now known as lbt12:43
*** sp3001 has joined #harmattan12:44
stroughtonsmithStill looking for anybody willing to test my app before I submit to Ovi :D anyone?12:48
hiemanshustroughtonsmith: what kinda app? :D12:49
stroughtonsmitha Harmattan one, obviously ;-) it's a speedometer, nothing complex. Just trying to confirm it actually works for people other than me. Qt's packager is a bitch :P12:50
faenilI can walk in the house..12:50
faenilif that's ok :D12:50
hiemanshuyeah about the same here :P12:51
faeniloh wait12:51
stroughtonsmithhaha it might work. I tried walking it to the shops and it seemed to work12:51
faenilI can test it on my bicycle12:51
faenilI'm going to the canteen in 1 hour :)12:51
stroughtonsmithok, well here's the .deb anyway !
stroughtonsmithany sort of feedback is good12:52
faenilgot it :)12:52
stroughtonsmiththanks :D12:52
stroughtonsmiththere's only two parts to the UI12:52
stroughtonsmithtap will change the unit12:52
faenildo you want me to test it on n950 or n9?12:52
stroughtonsmithand double tap will flip it in 3D12:52
stroughtonsmitheither device is fine12:52
faenilwow :)12:52
stroughtonsmithit looks nicer on the N9 ;)12:52
faenilconnecting n9, had never done that before :) Unpacked it yesterday ^^12:53
stroughtonsmithwhat color did you get? :D12:54
hiemanshufaenil: from Qt Dev Days/12:54
hiemanshuor you paid for it?12:54
faenildevdays :P12:54
faenilCyan ^_^12:54
faenilas everyone else there :12:54
stroughtonsmithlucky :P I paid for mine, couldn't make it to devdays12:55
hiemanshuI see12:55
faenilstroughtonsmith: oh, unlucky :)12:55
stroughtonsmithI wonder if Nokia is going to swap the N950s for N9 units at a later date. I'm not giving mine back!12:55
stroughtonsmithnah, I'm happy to pay to support the N9 and Harmattan12:55
faenilI don't use phys keyboard12:56
faenilso N9 is okay to me :)12:56
faenilI did not have terminal on n9 yet xD12:59
*** Jonno_ has quit IRC12:59
faenildownloading :D12:59
stroughtonsmithyou can bluetooth it across too12:59
stroughtonsmithor type urls :D12:59
faenilyeah that's probably better, lol13:00
*** freemangordon_ has quit IRC13:00
*** NIN101 has joined #harmattan13:00
rantomFor UK-residents:
stroughtonsmithExpansys USA have been selling the 64GB versions too; it's where I got my Cyan13:04
rantomHmm. I checked the Ovi Store and there was an option for "Themes". It's currently empty but does that mean that there could be themes to download in future?13:07
rantomI remember hearing something about the SDK not having those files necessary to make themes?13:07
stroughtonsmithhmm? There used to be two themes on the N950 that you could switch between13:07
stroughtonsmithnot that you would want to13:07
rantom(And at the moment you can't enable custom themes, if I'm not mistaken, from the UI)13:08
rantomhmm, ok13:08
stroughtonsmithone of the old sdk apps, a qt demo app, let you change theme13:08
rantomAah, ok13:08
*** Stecchino has joined #harmattan13:08
rantomSo as in: no, no themes as of yet13:08
rantomI don't mind though, just wondering13:09
StecchinoI can't get the N9 to download map data. Keeps telling me to use wifi even though I'm already connected13:09
faenilstroughtonsmith: oh it uses gps...I thought it used accelerometers :)13:12
stroughtonsmithfaenil: haha no, no. GPS13:12
faenilthen I can't use it at home, I'll wait for the canteen in 10-20min :)13:12
stroughtonsmithit's speed not acceleration13:12
faenilright lol13:12
stroughtonsmithwell does the rest of the UI work for you?13:12
stroughtonsmithI keep feeling I'm forgetting something13:12
faenilI actually feel a bit lost :D13:12
faenilthis screen popped up13:12
faenilwith the gps img blinking13:13
faeniland background :)13:13
stroughtonsmiththat's the app :P13:13
faenilthat was a way to say "add some text" :D13:13
stroughtonsmithtap to change, double tap to flip13:13
faenillike don't know, maybe a little arrow, you press on it and you see current info13:13
stroughtonsmithadd text? lol13:13
stroughtonsmiththe current info shows if there's current info ;)13:14
faenilok but atm I could think it's stuck :D13:14
stroughtonsmiththat's why the gps image flashes! :D13:14
faenilsomething like waiting for gps signal...13:14
faenilI know :P13:14
stroughtonsmithmore text means more to localize, more to get wrong13:15
faenilright you're right13:15
faenilI'm just telling you my opinion as a user13:15
stroughtonsmithsure thing13:15
stroughtonsmithI'm totally ignoring it, of course :D but thanks. This matches what we have on all other platforms now13:15
faenilLike what if the img is blinking but the gps connection is not being established and hasn't even tried to localize me...13:15
faenilor things like that :D13:15
faenilok good, than it's ok ;)13:16
stroughtonsmithwell if there's no gps signal, the app can't do much13:16
stroughtonsmithflashing image says no signal13:16 don't get me :D13:16
stroughtonsmithno way to magically get signal without moving13:16
faenillisten more carefully :D13:16
faenilI don't know if it's just me...but I wouldn't trust an image... that's it ;)13:17
stroughtonsmithnah you're making a distinction where there is none, for a user13:17
faeniland what also why gps softwares use "waiting for signal" as well13:17
stroughtonsmithif there's no connection, you get no speed13:17
faenilI knoooooooooooooow XD13:17
stroughtonsmithI don't need to spell it out for people, it's a binary state as far as they're concerned haha13:18
faenilbut tell the user you're trying to connect other than with an image! that's what I'm saying, my opinion ofc :D13:18
stroughtonsmithgps or no gps :D13:18
stroughtonsmithyou're over thinking it13:18
faenilok, as you wish :) It's more of psycological thing...I don't trust images...and don't know if other people do :)13:18
faenilok ;)13:18
stroughtonsmithsure, I like numbers13:19
faenildecision is yours ;) I'm just giving out my pov :)13:19
faenillike also a flashing text that says "Waiting for GPS Signal" :P (lol)13:19
Lilltigeri do agree with faenil, use text and image or just text, only image is not a good way because images can be enterpited in meny different ways13:19
faenilyeeey XD I'm not mad XD13:19
Lilltigerit's like the "red" for "danger" myth, in some cultures "red" means "safe"13:20
stroughtonsmithhaha, not going to change the app after 4 years on the market ;-) image and text is absolutely not necessary here13:20
faenilstroughtonsmith, yeah I got that your app is already there ;) People might have got used to it... ;) but don't be close-minded in any case ;) Apps can always improve (not meaning to offend in any way ;) )13:21
Lilltigerand refusal to improve already excisting applications, because they been like that for years, is a major designer flaw.13:21
stroughtonsmithnah, adding text detracts from the app, I've had it with text and without before13:21
stroughtonsmithpeople like it simple13:22
Lilltigeryes and simple is text13:22
faenilstroughtonsmith: ok :)13:22
stroughtonsmithdesign wise, it looks way better without text13:22
stroughtonsmithand it doesn't confuse people, the app either works or doesn't13:22
stroughtonsmithit's designed around being a single function app13:22
faenilhey, it's his app, we've told what we thought :) let's stop it here ;)13:23
faenilstroughtonsmith: no problem ;)13:23
stroughtonsmiththanks for testing tho13:23
faenilTime to go to the canteen :)13:23
faenilI'll be reporting after lunch, lol :)13:23
stroughtonsmith:D let me know if it's way off or something13:24
stroughtonsmithI don't know whether to trust the GPS data from the N9 yet13:24
faenilcya later13:24
*** faenil has quit IRC13:24
Stecchinocan anyone test if maps offline download is working at the moment (server mightbe down)13:24
Stecchinomight be a local issues13:25
stroughtonsmithStecchino: seems to be working here in san francisco13:26
Stecchinoif the server is down, will the app show the "connect over wifi" message?13:27
Stecchinois there a screenshot button shortcut?13:27
Stecchinowant to report this bug13:27
stroughtonsmithi've been using the screenshot app on the store for this :/13:27
stroughtonsmithcover the light sensor, etc13:27
Stecchinohm, working on the N950 but not on the N913:29
Stecchinomaps download that is13:29
Stecchinostroughtonsmith: which one works best: screenshotMee or Screen capture?13:30
stroughtonsmiththe icon looks like two N9s beside each other at an angle13:30
stroughtonsmithruns in the background, allows you take a shot whenever you cover the sensor13:30
StecchinoscreenshotMee it is13:30
stroughtonsmithI think it's pretty sucky, but was the best I found13:30
Stecchinothe other one looks like a quickly put together hack13:31
Stecchinowith it's MS paint icon and all13:31
Stecchinowhere is the light sensor on the N9?13:32
stroughtonsmithtop right13:33
stroughtonsmithbeside the logo13:33
Stecchinojust put my hand all over it, worked fine13:33
Stecchinobut I'll remember13:33
Stecchinoon the N960 it's obvious13:33
stroughtonsmithyeah it is a bit more hidden on the N913:34
stroughtonsmithyou can just about see it with correct lighting13:34
Arkenoiwell, i disassembled my metawatch, took the battery out, inspected it, found nothing suspicious (i do not have a multimeter here) and but it back in. now it works almost as expected. must be a contact problem or something13:55
matrixxrantom: stroughtonsmith: the SDK allows theme change, I've actually done app that changes theme13:55
matrixxjust have to polish th UI13:55
stroughtonsmithmatrixx: neat13:56
rantommatrixx: Oh, great. Thanks13:56
matrixxand need to figure out which capabilities I'll need to reboot the phone13:56
matrixxcause theme change needs reboot to work correctly13:56
rantomJust like in Maemo13:56
matrixxnow what I need is now custom themes :P~13:56
matrixxI'll write a blog post about how to do custom themes13:57
matrixxI just don't have the graphic skills myself13:57
rantomI'd probably be able to quickly make a Windows Phone-theme13:57
rantom512x512 square13:57
matrixxrantom, will it be called "fake" :D13:58
*** Ans5i has joined #harmattan13:59
rantomHow about "square"?13:59
matrixxAns5i: yes, just like that :)13:59
Ans5ioops, i accidentally windows13:59
matrixxor "elop"13:59
Ans5ijoo, ei loppiainen kesää tee14:00
Ans5ijust kidding.14:00
rantomThen I'd have to change to bootloader too14:00
rantomI think this would be appropriate for that:
rantommatrixx: Are the files in .SVG?14:02
rantomI think so..14:02
matrixxno, they are .png14:09
matrixxactually it's so easy to make the theme, I can share it now :)14:09
matrixxicons are in /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons14:10
matrixxtake note of the icon names and replace as many as you like with your own14:10
matrixxpush them to /usr/share/themes/yourthemename/meegotouch/icons14:10
rzri obs still available ?14:11
matrixxcopy /usr/share/themes/blanco/index.theme to corresponding place in your theme folder14:11
rzris ..14:11
matrixxand replace the info in that file with your own, inherit from blanco :)14:12
matrixxthat's it14:12
matrixxI would recommend to keep the graphics size the same as the original though14:13
* Arkenoi wonders why there is no way to filter out media and bookmarks in ovi store14:13
matrixxhave to polish the UI some other day, tomorrow probably14:21
matrixxnow off to play some board games with "real" people :D14:21
*** leinir has quit IRC14:25
*** faenil has joined #harmattan14:26
faenilback :)14:26
hiemanshufront (:14:27
faenilstroughtonsmith : you there?14:27
faenilhiemanshu: lol man that was sad XD14:27
hiemanshufaenil: I know :P I am just bored as hell14:27
faenilif you want I need help with 3d :)14:28
rantommatrixx: Cool, thanks for the info. I might take a look of theming in future14:28
hiemanshuI haven't written code in almost a month now faenil14:28
faenilhiemanshu: I can bring you back to life, are you good at 3d graphics?14:28
hiemanshufaenil: nope14:29
faenildammit xD14:29
hiemanshuwell I dont mind learning something new :)14:29
faenilraypicking is getting the hell out of me14:29
hiemanshuraypicking? its a game?14:29
faenilWithout using qt3d or stuff14:30
faeniljust qtopengl and opengles 214:30
faenilI'm doing everything myself14:30
stroughtonsmithfaenil: yeah I'm here14:31
faeniltested the app ;)14:31
stroughtonsmithoh sweet14:31
faeniland here's my short review and report :)14:31
stroughtonsmithdid it work at all?14:31
faenil1) Took 8 minutes to get gps signal from cold chip, not app's fault, but still14:31
faenil2) after 30minutes I tried again, it took 5 seconds14:32
faenilthat's about signal :)14:33
faenilnow about the app:14:33
faenil1) It workish, speed is +/- 2km/h14:33
faenilI mean, if you're walking you get from 3 to 7 even if speed is always 514:33
faenilsame on bicyle14:34
stroughtonsmithsounds about right for a phone GPS without a gyro14:34
faenilbut thing is14:35
faenilI could not get anything below 3km/h14:35
faenilthat could be app's fault :)14:35
faenilor choice...14:35
*** leinir has joined #harmattan14:35
*** leinir has joined #harmattan14:35
stroughtonsmithI ignore anything slower than that, it's too low to get an accurate reading14:35
stroughtonsmithI've seen it go from 0-4 while standing still14:35
faenilok, well everything seems to work then14:36
stroughtonsmithsweet! Thanks!14:36
faenilnp ;)14:36
faenilI'd suggest trying it on n950 newer fw too14:36
faenilbecause it broke my app14:36
stroughtonsmithyeah I've tried it on my n950, seems to work14:36
*** strannik1 has joined #harmattan14:48
strannik1Ouch , no meego harmattan talk in meego :(14:54
rzrobs seems ok15:02
rzrstrannik1: Ouch , no meego harmattan talk in meego15:03
rzranyway i feel we should use maemo boards15:03
*** wook has joined #harmattan15:07
*** wook has quit IRC15:07
*** messerting has joined #harmattan15:21
faenilis there any way to build a custom firmware for harmattan?15:24
hiemanshudont think so15:24
faenilis the problems in repacking or unpacking as well?15:25
MohammadAGprobably certificates for reflashing15:26
DocScrutinizeryou can't flash images that aren't correctly signed15:27
*** strannik1 has quit IRC15:27
faenilMohammadAG and DocScrutinizer: but we don't need that with Moslo, do we? :P15:28
MohammadAGthen it's not Harmattan15:28
DocScrutinizer(not that I ever heard of a flashable custom image for e.g. N900, even though this wouldn't need any signing)15:28
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, I've done it once I think15:28
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: i have a guide for n900, n9/n950 is erm, more difficult15:28
MohammadAGbut PR1.2 rootfs -> eMMC messes it up15:28
DocScrutinizer/kick $USER15:28
MohammadAGa bit15:29
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: correct, seems I heard about fiascogen first time from you15:29
MohammadAGmaking the rootfs is ubi stuff15:29
MohammadAGpacking into a fiasco needs fiasco-gen yes15:29
DocScrutinizerhmm, PR1.2 is not a kick'able term any more it seems15:29
DocScrutinizerk, removed it, sorry15:30
*** strannik1 has joined #harmattan15:30
MohammadAGwhy is there another channel (#N9)?15:31
strannik1Who knows15:32
strannik1It is way too confusing15:32
faenillol just read your messages..15:33
faenilso MohammadAG, are you forced to use fiasco image with moslo too?15:33
faenilcan't you just extract files on the device as you do with the community edition?15:33
MohammadAGI don't know if fiasco-gen even exists on harmattan15:34
MohammadAGif it does, you'll have to get the fiasco bin signed15:34
faenilthere's something unclear here....15:35
faenildon't think CE uses a signed image15:35
hiemanshufaenil: CE doesn't have the same partition setup as harmattan15:36
faenilhiemanshu: and isn't there any workaround for that?15:36
hiemanshuthere is15:37
hiemanshuyou just have to work on it15:37
faenilwith CE you format everything to ext415:37
hiemanshuthere were a few other things too, cant recall most of it15:38
faenilthink think think :O15:39
faenilI mean, CE is just a package full of files...15:39
faenilor gz215:40
hiemanshuMOSLO writes on one of the harmattan partitions15:40
MohammadAGfaenil, CE uses a different kernel15:41
faenilcan't we create other partitions and reproduce harmattan env and then just copy harmattan files to partitions?15:41
hiemanshupartitions are hard coded15:41
faenilhiemanshu: you mean hardcoded in moslo?15:42
hiemanshuatleast thats what I checked last15:42
hiemanshufaenil: no harmattan15:42
*** Ans5i has quit IRC15:42
faenilhiemanshu: that shouldn't be a problem, because harmattan will find the same partitions...15:42
strannik1So have you all got the n9 yet?15:42
faenilMohammadAG: could you please elaborate more on consequences of that?15:42
faeniln950 and n9 here15:42
strannik1Oh wow cool15:43
hiemanshufaenil: but you need MOSLO, and that writes on the harmattan partition :P15:43
faenilgot n9 at dev days :)15:43
strannik1Still waiting for my dad to hopefully pick up an n9 from china15:43
strannik1I am in the uk15:43
faenilhiemanshu: so you can't create other partitions and write harmattan on them?15:43
strannik1Faenil: i also applied for the n950 but never got one15:43
hiemanshufaenil: dont think so15:43
strannik1Haha applied one day , or even half a day before the deadline15:44
faenilstrannik1: keep trying :) contact people, show them what u've done, don't desist :)15:44
strannik1Do they still give out the n950s?15:44
faenilthey might have some left, who knows15:45
*** leinir has quit IRC15:45
faenilhiemanshu: will wait for some more info :)15:45
faenilwe also have moslo sources, it seems doable to me...15:46
*** leinir has joined #harmattan15:46
hiemanshufaenil: thats the thing, it can be done,  you just have to work on it :P15:46
faenilhiemanshu: sure, I'm trying to get more info, as I don't know much about that first phase15:46
hiemanshufaenil: ask dm8tbr, he is the best person to contact about it15:47
hiemanshufaenil: him or Stskeeps15:47
faenilStskeeps is already reading I guess :)15:47
faenilMohammad: anything?15:47
MohammadAGnope, can't, mainly cause I haven't tried flashing a kernel due to the absence of a device15:48
faenilbut you seemed to know why it can/can't be done, or such..15:49
*** _trine has joined #harmattan15:50
DocScrutinizerdo what?15:51
DocScrutinizercreate a HARM clone free of aegis?15:51
strannik1I wonder who the hell in nokia decided to put in aegis. I always assumed the meego team were the opposition to elop and wp715:52
DocScrutinizer*can* be done, though you still need to emulate aegis for several apps that rely on it, and *some* apps will outright not work as they may rely on access to root cert in TPM which is locked in open mode15:52
*** lardman has joined #harmattan15:53
*** KaziKluBey has joined #harmattan15:54
strannik1Did the applications work with javispedros method of just disabling aegis15:54
strannik1Using the devel-su priviliges15:54
strannik1DocScrutinizer: what happened when aegis was disabled in the beta1?15:56
*** deimos has joined #harmattan15:56
strannik1Using the devel-su priviliges15:56
strannik1Faenil: do you know?15:57
faenildon't know sorry15:58
strannik1Would the nokia closed apps stop working?15:58
faenilDocScrutinizer: I'm not trying to get rid of aegis ;)15:58
faenilDocScrutinizer: just trying to boot a custom firmware, where I can change files, edit configurations, and stuff, by defaul15:58
jabisfaenil, quite impossible because of TPM lock15:59
jabisit's basically all of harmattan or nothing16:00
faenilright, that malfunctioning thing right?16:00
jabis--write-cert === MALF16:01
faenilwell but16:02
faenilthat only covers system files doesn't it?16:02
jabisI'd want an N950 but not sure I can push our mobile development team to pick it up -.-16:03
faenilor does it also cover applications settings? like don't know, musicplayer...and other stuf16:03
faenilDocScrutinizer: anyway,I'll talk to javispedro to know more about the current status of mods16:04
*** _trine has left #harmattan16:04
MohammadAGfaenil, you're probably better shipping a diff that applies at first boot16:07
faenilMohammadAG: :P16:09
faenilor wait and contribute to Nemo :) and have fun there :P16:10
DocScrutinizerfaenil: as aegis is permanently checking hashes of a lot of files, and changing the files by *any* means will invalidate the hashes, you earn little with temporarily "disable aegis" as you never can go back to normal mode on HARM after editing a single file16:10
MohammadAGfaenil, the fish?16:12
strannik1The only solution would be to reverse engenier aegis and see what tokens it is sending???16:12
jabisthere be a lot of reverse engineering16:13
*** zz_gri is now known as gri16:13
MohammadAGI feel like trying something when I get my device16:13
DocScrutinizerfaenil: see /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist for a list of files you must not edit16:13
MohammadAGsorry, if*16:14
faenilMohammadAG: Nemo, Mer + UX community edition16:14
strannik1lol same here , but for now i am trying to understand more about the os environment16:14
faenilDoc:  thanks16:14
MohammadAGah, the wonderful naming schemes16:14
hiemanshuMohammadAG: yeah MeeGo CE is now Nemo :P16:15
DocScrutinizergenerally aegis is not exactly (only) about forbidding certain activities like writing to some particular file - aegis ensures a certain *state* of HARM or otherwise will cause MALF16:16
MohammadAGwhen you MALF16:17
faenilyeah knew that ;)16:17
DocScrutinizerso you can not change the state by whatever means and hope to go back to a HARM system with a bit of it changed and still working16:17
MohammadAGdoes it reboot or does the window simply pop up and reboot doesn't succeed?\16:17
MohammadAGjust wondering if an ssh session would stay active in MALF16:17
DocScrutinizerunclear, it seems it reboots, pops up MALF screen, and reboot hangs16:18
jabisbasically you'd have to rewrite aegis - gl x)16:19
DocScrutinizerand even then you don't have access to the root cert in TPM16:19
*** berndhs has joined #harmattan16:20
strannik1Why did they do this? To stop people from pirating the nokia apps or something???16:21
jabiswondering if the root cert would be extractable - well if there is a mean to distribute it to the TPM there is a way to get it out, but that'd take a lot of magics and trickery x)16:21
MohammadAGMeeGo had plans16:21
DocScrutinizerstrannik1: see the >> quote << in16:21
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
MohammadAGto be supported etc, I remember EA and such had plans for games/commercial apps16:21
MohammadAGbut then the WP7 plan came along16:21
LilltigerNo, Nokia did this to screw with the Open Source Community, it's a part of thire agreement with Microsoft16:21
MohammadAGMeeGo died, commercially at least16:21
MohammadAGbut Nokia kept the security platform16:22
DocScrutinizersounds plausible, yes16:22
MohammadAGthe reason the N900 wasn't commerically supporteed is it lacks a security platform16:22
SpeedEvil  Aegis was invented way before meego came one hte scene16:22
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: LOL16:23
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, yeah, Maemo 6 Harmattan16:23
MohammadAGDocScrutinizer, what? remember Angry Birds Map packs?16:23
MohammadAGremember PR1.2 + Ovi?16:23
MohammadAGnot that Android's is any better, you just find an apk and install it there16:24
MohammadAGbut I guess Android received more marketting and had more OEM manufacturers16:24
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: there were subsidized N900 in GB at least. And for sure nobody stopped their commercial apps because N900 had no platsec16:24
khertanit s funny, because you even with aegis you can still install pirated apps :)16:25
hiemanshuwhat does the platsec prevent really?16:25
hiemanshuThere is no fix for human stupidity16:25
psycho_oreosunfortunately Flop doesn't see it that way16:25
psycho_oreoshe's sense of human's stupidity is as diligent as Ballmer's16:25
psycho_oreosi.e. putting a leash16:26
hiemanshuno really I wanna know what does the plat sec do that couldn't be done with workarounds that aren't this hard on developers?16:27
Arkenoito prevent pirated apps from working imei bind is more than enough16:27
DocScrutinizerensure there's nobody using OC and Nokia has to RMA the fried device16:28
DocScrutinizerand open a path to DRM which can't be ensured any other way than this16:28
DocScrutinizerno other purpose, really. Everything else can get achieved in better well proven "standard" ways16:29
psycho_oreosDocScrutinizer, lol, their hard work as shown in the making of N9 video has not gone to waste into making another one just because one managed to fry theirs16:29
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: what does DRM have to do with me editing /bin/bash ?16:29
hiemanshuthe features have become flaws16:30
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: DRM relies on a comprehensive platform integrity, see HDMI encryption etc16:31
hiemanshuHDCP blah blah yes, but I am saying it could have been done much better without making it a pains for the devs16:33
DocScrutinizerif somebody is offering the latest blockbuster song as *ringtone* they want to make sure you can't even record it from headphones plug, so complete control over the whole system is mandatory for what "they" think is proper DRM16:33
*** stroughtonsmith has quit IRC16:34
hiemanshuif I really wanted it, I could find a way to extract it16:34
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: sure. We all thought we get a switch to enable "open mode" and would be able to do whatver we want, just not access any DRM content anymore. Alas it turns out this is incompatible with the way aegis works16:34
Arkenoihdcp is pretty damn stupid16:35
Arkenoicompletely useless but we all were forced to pay for development and implementation16:35
hiemanshuArkenoi: we are bashing and not aegis, please dont go off topic :P16:35
*** stroughtonsmith has joined #harmattan16:35
hiemanshuArkenoi: we are bashing aegis and not HDCP, please dont go off topic :P16:35
DocScrutinizerwell, it seems this comment about HDCP applies to aegis pretty fine16:36
Arkenoii hate every time i forced to spend *my* money on things designed solely for my annoyance16:37
*** lardman has quit IRC16:37
Arkenoidoes not apply to n950 users, however, but still sucks16:37
strannik1Hdcp doesnt need to be used. It can be "simply" sidestepped16:38
strannik1Man sorry to go offtopic16:40
strannik1But i used to be part of the ipodlinux community16:40
strannik1Back in the day16:40
strannik1For the classic ipod16:41
strannik1Apple started the whole cat and mouse game trying to prevent us from modifying their bootloader16:41
strannik1So they started encrypting it and what not16:41
hiemanshustrannik1: they are doing it for the iPhone as well16:42
hiemanshunothing new16:42
hiemanshuCorporations just want to maintain a dictatorship16:42
strannik1Either way some guy found out ont tiny piece of code that wasnt encrypted16:42
strannik1The code controlled the piezo.. A little speaker that makes clicks and tones16:42
RST38hActially, it was not Apple16:43
RST38hSony did16:43
strannik1The guy managed to get it to access the bootloader ,, and click out the whole bootloader16:43
RST38hand even before that, Hughes DSS16:43
strannik1After 20 hours of recording clicks we had the bootloader :)16:43
strannik1With harmattan i am sure it will be easier to get past aegis. Than it was on the classic ipod .. Here we have way more access to the system16:44
*** djszapi has joined #harmattan16:44
*** jesuschrist has joined #harmattan16:44
djszapi~seen wazd16:45
infobotwazd <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 9d 16h 3m 36s ago, saying: 'Milhouse: easter egg for geeks? :)'.16:45
*** rlinfati has joined #harmattan16:45
strannik1I just think we need to be more optimistic about aegis16:46
strannik1I am sure it will be history in no time16:47
strannik1Pain in the ass. Yes16:47
strannik1Cat and mouse attitude . Yes16:47
*** zogg_laptop has joined #harmattan16:47
strannik1But with harmattan there is a lot more access , than on other devices16:48
zogg_laptophey, anyone from Israel here? i wonder if someone bought N9 here?16:48
Arkenoistrannik1: but you pay for it being installed in every hdmi device. and in fact we sponsored its development -- the price is hidden in every hdmi device we buy16:48
strannik1Zogg_laptop: there is some guy in the #n9 channel called jesus christ ;)16:49
strannik1He found a n9 for 470 . Might want to ask him lol16:49
zogg_laptopstrannik1: here is here too16:49
zogg_laptopjesuschrist: ^ ?16:49
strannik1Arkenoi: i have a linux device that has hdmi , but no hdcp16:50
jesuschristas i said, i was from israel but they crucified me16:50
zogg_laptopwhat is hdcp?16:50
Arkenoiwell, _almost_ every16:50
zogg_laptopjesuschrist: but seriosly>16:50
jesuschristseriously what zogg ?16:51
Arkenoidamn i have problems with google sync. just 200 contacts (exactly) are synced and sync stucks16:51
zogg_laptopjesuschrist: are you from israel?16:51
jesuschristzogg_laptop : no16:51
Arkenoistucks means other contacts are missing from address book16:51
jesuschristim in heaven now zogg16:51
djszapifaenil: goto San Francisco for getting another N9 ? :)16:51
jabisI had the same problem with syncing my lg's contacts to N916:53
jabis200 and then *biff* no moar16:53
DocScrutinizerI bet that's another hidden "protecting means" for the user's convenience16:53
jabisI extracted them to vcards, smoked the 200 off and then resynced the rest16:53
*** japplo has joined #harmattan16:54
jabisit's the same with facebook too - 471 peeps on list but only 200 found their way to contact list x)16:54
DocScrutinizerstrannik1: you need to learn more about how aegis works (I elaborated on it just ~100 lines above), there's basically no hope to "get past aegis"16:55
DocScrutinizerunless we find a correctly signed xloader that doesn't tear down the TPM and still allows custom kernel loading16:55
japplohi, I try to compile keepassx for N9, but I have at the bottom16:56
jabisso that means we need to find a disgruntled nokia-dood from r&d x)16:56
japploa bar like in the screenshot. What is the reason for that?16:56
DocScrutinizerjabis: yoh :-D16:57
*** djszapi has left #harmattan16:57
*** hardaker2 has joined #harmattan16:58
jabisthat would kinda kick ass - but then again, chances are greater to win a lottery which you haven't bought a ticket for x)16:59
*** lardman has joined #harmattan17:03
*** berndhs has left #harmattan17:04
jesuschristguys do you think flash will come to the n9 ?17:05
*** japplo has left #harmattan17:05
*** messerting has quit IRC17:06
*** snowpong has quit IRC17:11
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan17:13
*** snowpong has joined #harmattan17:15
*** zogg_laptop has quit IRC17:17
*** messerting has joined #harmattan17:17
*** M4rtinK has quit IRC17:19
*** rlinfati has quit IRC17:21
DocScrutinizerprobably not17:22
LilltigerDocScrutinizer: ohh so the custom kernel approatch that was workt on dident work? :(17:25
DocScrutinizererr sure it works, you can load "custom kernel" without major problems17:25
DocScrutinizerbut that's not a working HARM system then17:26
Lilltigerahh ok :(17:26
DocScrutinizerand if you dare to change any system file (aka aegis hashref's fike) under that custom kernel, your system will MALF later on stock HARM kernel with aegis17:27
snowpongare there any good docs on proper uninstall scripts for the .deb files for harmattan, or should one just read general .deb documentation?17:28
jesuschristmalf = ?17:28
*** lardman has quit IRC17:30
DocScrutinizer~malf is
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer17:37
LilltigerI cant see how goverments allow companies this much freedom, so retarded, if I buy something I should own it and be allowed to change it as much as i want to17:37
DocScrutinizeryou are allowed to do that. Just you won't get HARM to work on this device then17:38
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan17:43
JaffaAnyone got an idea on how do detect the system 12/24 hour setting? I can't find gconf to grep it, nor does rendering "new Date()" seem to vary based on the setting.17:48
DocScrutinizergconftool-2 -R / >a.txt; <change 12/24>; gconftool-2 -R / >b.txt; diff a.txt b.txt17:50
JaffaYeah, just did that (well, gconftool-2 --dump /)17:51
Jaffa/meegotouch/i18n/lc_timeformat24h on Harmattan17:51
JaffaWhich means it'll be different on Maemo.17:51
DocScrutinizer:nod: which is one of the reasons for this channel's existence, rather than just hijacking #meego*17:53
DocScrutinizeror #maemo17:53
JaffaFremantle is /schemas/apps/clock/time-format boolean.17:53
JaffaHarmattan is /meegotouch/i18n/lc_timeformat24h string (12/24)17:53
DocScrutinizerand on a proper system it should go to locale afaik17:54
JaffaDocScrutinizer: No17:54
JaffaDocScrutinizer: See Maemo bug #303 why it can't be decided by the system without being overruled by the user17:54
JaffaDocScrutinizer: Maemos prior to v4 went off the POSIX locale information (without a flag), which was "wrong" for the UK (as the UK uses 24 hour far more than it does 12 hour)17:55
DocScrutinizerlengthy ticket17:56
* RST38h moos at the audience17:57
RST38hAm I the only one seeing n950 screen turn off in ~30 seconds, even when the setting is set to 3 minutes?17:57
*** M4rtinK has joined #harmattan17:57
DocScrutinizerman 5 locale|less +/lc_time17:58
*** richmoore2 has joined #harmattan17:59
richmoore2does anyone know why the qmlviewer deb from seems to be built as if it were a desktop app? (it has unusable menubar etc.) which makes it impossible to use on the n9. the one i have on the n8 opens with a filebrowser that works fine on a handset18:01
DocScrutinizermaybe because HARM paradigm denies the existence of pathnames and filesystems and completely bases on tracker?18:06
* rzr plans to upgrade his n950 from b1 to current version this w/e , does it worth it ?18:06
DocScrutinizer(one of the things Nokia liked to try and prove they can do it better than Apple who failed epically on that approach)18:07
*** rcg has quit IRC18:07
richmoore2DocScrutinizer: iirc there are a number of file browsers available for the n9, so i don't see why that would be the case18:08
DocScrutinizerrzr: well, no matter if it's worth it, it's a final step anyway. No way to downgrade :-P18:08
rzrthat's why I came here, would it be helpfull to keep some devices in b1 ?18:09
DocScrutinizerrichmoore2: those filebrowsers are all from authors who failed to see how wonderful this new paradigm works together with e.g. mail attachments18:09
DocScrutinizerwell, mine is b1 still, rzr18:10
rzris there any reason why you did not upgrade ?18:10
DocScrutinizeras b1 allows me to do my hw hacking for hostmode. B2(++) is way harder to 'unlock', maybe impossible18:11
rzrmaybe there are some hacks to reflash b1 ?18:12
DocScrutinizerprolly not18:12
DocScrutinizerexcept flasher rig to flash the cellmo fw directly via phoenix flasher sw, using the testpads18:13
strannik1Is there no recovery mode in n9/50 ?18:14
strannik1Some kind of software in the bootloader which can help recover your phone18:15
DocScrutinizerrecovery process commonly known as "flashing"18:15
DocScrutinizerand that software in the bootloader tells you "downgrading not allowed"18:16
strannik1Was thinking more of some button combo you can press, so it flashes itself to stock firmware18:16
strannik1Yea the whole downgrading bullshit is a pain18:17
DocScrutinizerwhat's the use of that, when the backup image might be borked as well?18:17
DocScrutinizerthere's a "reset to factory settings" option somewhere. Alas it doesn't exactly downgrade cellmo FW to b1 version18:18
strannik1Can at least the same image version be flashed!18:18
strannik1Haha ok so atleast there is no need to wait for a new version to unbrick the phone18:19
DocScrutinizerthat's the recommended "recovery"18:19
strannik1Wait, if you want to make your own image for instance18:19
DocScrutinizerbesides that image version + flasher is missing yet for N918:19
DocScrutinizerstrannik1: won't work as flasher/boot-code will refuse flashing images without proper signature18:20
strannik1If you wanted to flash a different image, meego ce, for instance18:20
DocScrutinizerafaik, never tested that myself18:21
strannik1Yea , man i really dont like all the built in security18:21
*** rcg has joined #harmattan18:22
DocScrutinizerbut it's a confirmed fact we normal mortals can not flash the Nokia internal dev images, as we lack the proper R&D cert on our devices18:22
strannik1Ok cool thats interesting18:22
LilltigerI do rely regret buying my N9, maybe i should ask for a refund because the device was not at all what i expect it to be18:23
strannik1Lilltiger: help to hack it ;)18:23
Lilltigerhacking shouldent be needed, wich was the sole reason to why i bought it18:24
*** messerting has quit IRC18:24
strannik1Maybe it might be possible in the future to have some kind of secondstage loader18:24
strannik1That tells the first stage that it is the correct fw18:24
*** crevetor has joined #harmattan18:25
strannik1But in fact loads up your own image18:25
*** doomdog has joined #harmattan18:25
strannik1Has anyone tried to hack it?18:25
strannik1It would be nice having a real recovery mode (As in flash anygod damm thing you want onto it)18:26
doomdogjust playing with moslo and meego CE should be interesting18:27
doomdogfor instance, there is a way to "downgrade"18:28
*** TSCHAKeee has joined #harmattan18:28
doomdogif you saved the rootfs in advance18:28
strannik1And just overwrite the old rootfs?18:29
doomdogthe same way you put meego CE in there you can also put e.g beta118:30
strannik1Hmm , never thought of that18:31
doomdogwhich Doc whould already have a tgz of by now =)18:31
strannik1So will you get all your su priviliges back?18:31
doomdogyou will get whatever you had in that specific rootfs18:31
strannik1Devel-su or whatever it is18:31
strannik1Well , thats good stuff haha18:33
strannik1Didn't expect it18:33
doomdogalso you can always flash another kernel, including an official one from the OCFs18:33
DocScrutinizerdoomdog: won't fly, the beta2 tag is in cellmo18:33
doomdogcan't you also flash cellmo fw (only) with the OCF?18:33
doomdogsimilar to --kernel-only?18:34
DocScrutinizerand btw I doubt restoring a HARM fs by copying files will work - afaik the refhashlist has inode numbers in it. It's hard to restore a file to same inode18:34
doomdogI am routinely restoring rootfs and it works no problem18:35
DocScrutinizer--cellmo-only might exist, but probably will not allow downgrade18:35
doomdogworth trying though?18:36
doomdogflash kernel from 34.2 and see if the 22.6 rootfs flies with that, for instance18:36
DocScrutinizerjust *I* won't first upgrade to try then if I can downgrade18:36
doomdogbut having a tgz of the beta1 rootfs is mandatory18:37
doomdogdo that first18:37
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan18:37
doomdogas a way out of possible trouble18:38
*** arcean has joined #harmattan18:38
strannik1Everyone needs their own personal backup right?18:38
strannik1Or can they be shared?18:38
doomdogsharing is moot, as everyone can do it18:38
doomdog(backup that is)18:38
DocScrutinizerI've never heard of any way to do a backup yet18:39
doomdogwell, just flash moslo18:39
DocScrutinizerat least not of any way to restore such backup18:39
DocScrutinizeryeah, via moslo it might work18:39
doomdogit does work18:39
DocScrutinizeryou also might want to keep a backup of CAL18:41
DocScrutinizerbut there's no way to keep a backup of cellmo18:41
DocScrutinizercat /proc/mtd18:41
strannik1Ahh ok . I just the documentation for moslo .. Moslo is a secondstage loader18:41
strannik1Does moslo work fine with harmattan?18:42
doomdogoh, moslo has the same view of the mtd partitions as HARM18:42
doomdogno problems there18:42
DocScrutinizermoslo and harm are mutually exclusive - first approach18:42
Arkenoiany advices how can i recover failed google sync?18:44
doomdogsomeone should try flashing moslo but just trying to boot afterwards, without mkfs & getting meego CE extracted over18:45
doomdogthere is always the OCF to get out of that18:45
DocScrutinizerstill moslo is already open mode18:46
doomdogit's not signed18:46
doomdogbut it could expose the rootfs18:46
DocScrutinizerand NOLO might even use some flag to boot directly to harm kernel + rootfs rather than to moslo18:48
DocScrutinizeractually I'm rather sure it does18:48
DocScrutinizerand it probably does this in secure mode then18:49
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC18:49
DocScrutinizerwhich still all is rather boring as any edit on harm rootfs will make it malf in secure mode18:49
DocScrutinizerunless you hacked the right init script ;-D18:50
doomdogthere, there ;)18:51
dm8tbrI think dual-booting openmode and securemode is interesting. And I wouldn't care to mess with the system in secure mode. In open mode I have full control and can run e.g. Nemo18:52
DocScrutinizerwhich will give us a kernel with initscripts hardcoded on beta4 the latest18:52
faeniljust finished reading18:53
faenildoomdog: u're the one I was looking for, lol18:53
faenilDocScrutinizer: I can do whatever test you all need as long as it doesn't have more than 3% or bricking the device to death18:54
strannik1Nemo moslo harm ...?who comes up with these names haha18:54
DocScrutinizerfaenil: thanks, noticed :-)18:54
doomdogDoc, first step would be to flash moslo and see if you can flash back beta1 afterwards.18:55
DocScrutinizerharm is my minting18:55
faenilok then talk, lol18:55
DocScrutinizerdoomdog: this is supposed to work, though only if you haven't upgraded to beta2 before18:57
doomdogwell, you haven't, so ;)18:57
doomdogno harm done18:57
doomdog(pun intended)18:57
DocScrutinizerI didn't take your comment as you suggesting beta2->moslo->beta1 was a viable way18:57
doomdogunfortunately I don't have a beta1 rootfs around to try that18:58
DocScrutinizeranyway flashing b1 will nuke moslo afaik18:58
doomdogbut beta2-moslo-beta2 works18:58
DocScrutinizeras does flashing b218:58
dm8tbrthat's also because there is an --erase-something=secure in the OCF18:59
doomdogit might18:59
DocScrutinizerand since my b1 is kinda customized to match some of my needs right now, I'm reluctant to mess with it18:59
doomdogwhat about flashing separate components and never --erase-ing?18:59
dm8tbrtry and find out19:00
DocScrutinizerunclear, as the whole flashing process is completely undocumented19:00
DocScrutinizerfor NAND anyway you *need* to erase prior to fresg flashing19:00
DocScrutinizeras you can flash only 0->1 on NAND, and 1->0 only works via page-erase19:01
doomdogyes, but when you flash kernel only you only get to erase that portion of the NAND19:01
DocScrutinizerI'm not particularly interested in a newer kernel though19:02
doomdogI don't see why flashing the complete e.g. beta2 would erase the moslo partition19:02
DocScrutinizeras long as it still has aegis19:02
doomdogI am curious about javispedro's progress with the modified kernel19:02
DocScrutinizerdoomdog: if it doesn't then you're doomed as no way back to secure mode ;-P19:03
doomdogDoc, I'm doomed anyway :-)19:03
DocScrutinizer(except for anticipated flags that would make NOLO boot to secure despite moslo being there)19:04
doomdoghmm wouldn't moslo sources shed some light on all this?19:04
DocScrutinizernot really as that'S all NOLO domain19:05
strannik1Is moslo open source? Guess not?!19:05
DocScrutinizerit's NOLO who drops secure mode on loading moslo/unsigned-*19:05
DocScrutinizermoslo *is* foss19:05
doomdogaiui, it's also NOLO that loads moslo, if it can find it19:06
DocScrutinizerand it's NOLO who decides to either oad MOSLO or the kernel in mtd119:07
DocScrutinizeryes, exactly19:07
strannik1What if we modify moslo?19:07
DocScrutinizerso moslo src won't tell you anything really19:07
DocScrutinizerstrannik1: then we have a modified moslo :-D19:08
doomdogwhich could do stuff19:08
DocScrutinizeryeah, stuff like loading arbitrary OS in *open mode*19:08
doomdogor maybe not much19:08
DocScrutinizerarbitrary OS even includes HARM rootfs&kernel19:10
DocScrutinizerstill open mode19:10
strannik1Wait , but why only in open mode?19:10
doomdogwith the right modifications in kernel and rootfs, open mode should not be that bad19:10
DocScrutinizerbecause NOLO loads moslo in open mode19:10
doomdogand we could still have HARM on19:10
DocScrutinizerdoomdog: yes, we *could* re-implement all of aegis cruft in a way it works in open mode like it would in closed mode. What we can't implement this way is access to root cert (and other certs) in TPM19:12
strannik1So nolo only lets official firmware and moslo run?19:12
doomdogthe question is what essential stuff (if any) depends on those certs..19:12
DocScrutinizerstrannik1: no, (new) NOLO loads arbitrary kernels/rootfs, just it drops secure mode on that19:13
DocScrutinizeraka locks TPM19:13
DocScrutinizerso no more access to certs19:13
DocScrutinizerdoomdog: one thing known to fail is aegis account manager19:14
doomdogthat's tough19:14
*** strannik1 has quit IRC19:14
DocScrutinizeranother one seems to be r/o on messages storage19:14
DocScrutinizerwhich could get worked around on a aegis-neutered re-implementation19:15
*** strannik1 has joined #harmattan19:15
strannik1Wlan droppe19:15
DocScrutinizerunclear if that's fixable19:15
DocScrutinizeraccess to cellmo lucckily seems to work19:16
doomdogif it means rewriting half the HARM, it's not worth it maybe19:16
DocScrutinizerthis *could* change any time in future though19:16
DocScrutinizerdoomdog: now you got the point19:16
doomdogjust getting all the important bits ported over to CE would be better19:17
DocScrutinizerdefinitely HARM is a dead end19:17
faenilagree, +119:17
doomdogswipe-like FOSS anyone? ;)19:17
faenilwe need to work on Nemo...19:17
strannik1Porting the ui wouldnt be a huge problem19:17
strannik1Nemo foss?19:18
faenildoomdog: w00t is working on that direction19:18
faenilyou build the UI19:18
strannik1Nemo is vanilla mego?19:18
faenilNemo is the UX for Mer core19:18
faenilMer core is based on Meego19:18
DocScrutinizererr, either meego-core or meego-UI19:18
faenilNemo = UX, Mer = Core (based on MeeGo)19:19
strannik1One sec19:19
faenilthis is the current stage19:19
faenilyou can talk about this on #meego-arm ;)19:19
doomdogI would like to see app-based routing in meego19:19
DocScrutinizerapp-based routing?19:20
DocScrutinizerlike IRC gors via WLAN only?19:20
doomdogeach app should be able to specify "access point"19:20
doomdogafaik it's possible in linux based on pid19:21
doomdog(routing that is)19:21
DocScrutinizerseems easy enough by providing per-app (or rather per-route/usecase) virtual NICs19:21
DocScrutinizeror even that, make IPtables PID aware19:22
DocScrutinizerbasically it's all there for that19:22
doomdogjust needs someone to actually do it ;)19:22
doomdogiproute2, iptables, tun/tap maybe19:22
doomdogall that stuff19:22
DocScrutinizerand an OS that allows to mess with iptables19:22
doomdoganyway, it needs to be a framework at the OS level19:23
doomdogas it is now, I can always hack an individual app to route through e.g. but I need to duplicate the effort for the next app and so on19:23
doomdogthrough e.g. openvpn19:23
DocScrutinizerand you need to mess with ICD2 which is no real fun19:24
doomdogreplace it altogether? ;)19:24
DocScrutinizeranyway, afk for some RL19:24
*** nibbler has quit IRC19:27
*** messerting has joined #harmattan19:29
*** BluesLee has joined #harmattan19:30
*** BluesLee has quit IRC19:35
*** [XeN] has quit IRC19:36
*** artemma has joined #harmattan19:38
*** spenap has joined #harmattan19:43
Arkenoiseems that some messages that sowatch sends to the watch display are being lost from the phone afterwards19:45
*** pH5 has joined #harmattan19:45
spenapI'm trying to write a postrm script to delete config and stuff when purging, but it seems that the root account is not able to delete things on the user's directory?19:47
*** strannik1 has quit IRC19:47
spenapany advice on that? or should I just give up and leave the config there when uninstalled?19:51
*** [XeN] has joined #harmattan19:52
DocScrutinizerspenap: yep, quite possible19:52
DocScrutinizernot sure how this is supposed to be handled19:53
clbrspenap: not shure what you mean exactly, but probably an aegis thing. is there an aegis-driven locked-stuff garbage collector daemon?19:53
DocScrutinizerI'd expect a *signed* pkg (as in "comes from OVI") has the needed permissions/tokens to do such stuff19:53
spenapbut when you delete something that came from aegis, (long press on the application grid) is that purging?19:54
spenapI'd say that's just removing19:54
DocScrutinizeror rather, the installer has the permissions to do that on postrm of signed pkgs19:54
spenapclbr, I mean a database I'm saving under .local/share/data, configuration files under .config, and cache stuff under .cache19:55
spenapDocScrutinizer, I see19:55
DocScrutinizerOVI QA in turn would check your postrm does no nasty, and only removes files you actually own19:56
DocScrutinizerthat'S how it *should* be, mere handwaving on the way it *is* right now19:56
spenapheh, yes, OVI QA seems quite busy checking through thousands of RSS apps19:57
spenapDocScrutinizer, yesterday I found this "Feedzilla" publisher19:57
spenapI wasn't able to scroll to the bottom of his published apps19:58
spenapliterally impossible: they just kept coming, more and more apps19:58
clbrspenap: I already complained to ovi support about this spamming19:58
clbrbut they need the app counter go up19:58
spenapclbr, I sent a complaint as well about this "Nokia" publisher19:59
spenapI don't want to accept it's nokia itself19:59
spenapsome of the apps are way too bad19:59
spenapothers can be from nokia, I accept that (such as this augmented reality one)19:59
spenapbut some are simply crap20:00
spenapwith little (if any) respect to the UX guidelines20:00
clbrspenap: do you register these locations (.local/share/data, .config) somehow with aegis?20:01
spenapno, I don't. Should I?20:02
Arkenoithere was a way to do "full resync" on fremantle and i do not see anything like that on harmattan :-(20:02
spenapThey are the ones you get when you use QDesktopServices::storageLocation20:02
*** doomdog has quit IRC20:06
*** doomdog has joined #harmattan20:07
*** strannik1 has joined #harmattan20:11
clbrspenap: did you try with "su user"? just tried to modify the calendar db with sqlite directly, but this time as "user" user and it worked20:13
spenapclbr, when writing to these locations from the app, it works just fine. The problem came when running apt-get remove --purge: it didn't seem to remove the files there20:14
spenapanyway, I think I can live with that20:14
*** clbr has quit IRC20:22
*** javispedro has joined #harmattan20:23
*** druid23 has quit IRC20:47
*** XeN has joined #harmattan20:57
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan20:59
*** [XeN] has quit IRC21:00
*** XeN has quit IRC21:06
*** druid23 has quit IRC21:10
*** druid23 has joined #harmattan21:11
*** ajalkane has quit IRC21:35
messertingI won't bother to register at just to give this feedback, so here it goes (maybe to /dev/null): To make work for me on N9, I had to create /home/user/MyDocs/dropbox manually myself.21:36
wmarone_might want to send the author an e-mail21:38
chouchounewho's running ?21:40
*** berndhs has joined #harmattan21:41
*** pH5 has quit IRC21:47
messertingI think EasyList from ovi store could be a really great app if it was made more intuitive, and supported two-way sync of *shared* lists. (think shared shopping list with gf)21:49
*** wook has joined #harmattan21:55
wookHeya guys, i was wondering, how to switch input mode by key combo on n950?21:56
faenilhey wook :D22:00
faenilhoopie newbie :D22:00
wookHeya noob :D22:00
wookIf you dont know answer, hush :P :D22:00
faenilgentlemen please welcome one of the greatest symbian hackers!22:01
wookZorn? :-O leftup? Where? :P22:01
strannik1Faenil: is it wook?22:01
wookHe's liar, i am just nerdito :D22:02
Arkenoiis there a way to selectively restore from backup? say, contacts only?22:02
strannik1Oh wow :) good to see the community has loads of symbian people22:02
strannik1Wook: haha22:02
*** artemma has quit IRC22:02
wookGuys, anyone have some console/gui tool for xp to manage deb's? i am fixing PyPacker, but...something's wrong with it :'( :D22:03
faenilstrannik1: hey if u're from symbian scene you should know me too, lol22:03
*** berndhs has left #harmattan22:03
wookAndrea, you came when most of us left :P ;)22:03
faenilwook, stfu xD22:03
wookWe used c2z for all mods, you had fancy tools like RomCooker....:P22:04
wookStfu ragazza :D22:04
* faenil hits wook22:04
wook*me spanks faenil22:04
faenilme fail..lol22:04
wookWas it something like this? :D22:04
messertingwook: on N9 it is swipe left or right starting on the keyboard22:04
faenilyes but with /22:05
* wook spanks ragazza's ass :D22:05
wookMesserting, hmm, i need to switch input language/keyboard22:06
wookShift + space on n900 as o remember22:06
faenilwook: you do that by swiping22:07
faenilif you have more languages installed in settings --> time and input -> keyboards installed or something22:07
wookSwyping over kbd? :-O strange, lemme try22:07
faenilyes, from left to right EDGE22:07
faenilthe other way too ;)22:08
wookReally :D :D this is cool :D i should read all docs :D22:08
wookBut, easier to ask ;) :D22:08
wookRagazza, can you try to use KhtEditor?22:09
wookIt fails with me when i start new file :S :'(22:09
faenilwhy should it work here than :D22:10
faenilthen* D22:10
wookBecause many things dun work with me cox i skip sm "step by step to hack anything" instructions :D22:10
faenilwhere's the deb?22:11
wookGoogle for it, dun have link (e7) :D22:11
wookNo LOL (join #python and see) :D22:12
jesuschristwho is ragazza22:14
wookFaenil is ragazza :D22:14
jesuschristhi ragazza, im christ, jesuschrist nice to meet you22:14
wookCiao ragazza :D22:14
faenilwook : he's from israel ;)22:15
wookJesus, that's only his nickname, nothing more :D22:15
faenilwook: u're sad -.-22:15
wookFaenil: and you are Roman :-O22:15
faenilhoope newbie22:15
faenilyes I am22:15
faenilthat's why I know him22:15
wookYes, i am sadl i have some bloody error and i will have to patch it or to mod my app :S22:16
faenilwhere's tarFile from22:16
jesuschristyou got a n9 faenil ?22:16
faenilyes and n95022:16 is from c:\python26\bla...bla\22:17
faeniloh k22:17
faenilis it bugged?22:17
wookNeed it for making debs22:17
wookSeems like, or my app is :D lol22:18
faeniloh k22:18
wookYou used SmartSIS?22:18
wookFaenil, do you feel like alien here?22:18
faenilI used qtcreator automatic deploym,ent...22:18
faenilwook: why?22:18
faenilI used makesis, but for Symbian lol22:18
wookYea and i need PyPacker to pack :D so, i am upto make it work like SmartSIS or Py2Sis22:19
wookWhy? idk, i feel like alien :S (always get 10000 questions on just one question i ask....) :D22:20
* wook is eating, bbs (be back sooner_or_later)22:20
*** hardaker2 has joined #harmattan22:21
*** doomdog has quit IRC22:22
faenilsorry bro, I was eating too (wook ^)22:24
*** hardaker2 has quit IRC22:25
*** artemma has joined #harmattan22:33
* wook is back, any rgazzas missed him? :D22:34
*** javispedro has quit IRC22:35
*** RST38h has quit IRC22:39
wookI think i got stucked :S22:46
wookBbl :S22:46
*** wook has quit IRC22:46
faenilis there anyone from nokia I can talk to to have some explanations about lags in Harmattan?22:58
strannik1Lags in harmatton?23:20
strannik1Faenil: is it bad?23:20
faenilit lags in MANY situations23:21
faenilI am disappointed about many of those...and I'm looking for anyone who can tell me why23:21
faenilhope to find a techincal reason23:21
faenilbut I know there's none23:21
strannik1Now that has really put me of from getting the n923:22
strannik1How does performance compare to say an iphone 423:23
strannik1I believe the cpus are similair23:23
faenilI have seen the iphone4 lag some times23:24
faenilit's more difficult to make it lag, but it lags some times... (rare cases anyway)23:24
faenilbut I haven't played with it for long, so don't know23:24
faenilIphone4S? Could not make it lose 1 fps23:24
faenilit was just rock solid, whatever I did23:24
strannik1Yea havnt played with the 4s yet23:26
strannik1But damm , does harmattan lag in menus?23:26
strannik1Or in apps?23:26
faenilhave you got one?23:26
strannik1Maybe an app of yours is taking up ram? Too many apps open? Etc23:26
faenilhave you got one?23:27
strannik1Not yet no23:27
strannik1I am looking to get the n923:27
faenilmm ok, otherwise I would have you try it ;)23:27
faenilI'll tell you some cases23:27
faenil1) scroll + open notification bar (upper one)23:27
faenil2) scroll while receiving an event (i.e. the notification on top appears)23:27
faenil3) facebook app23:28
faenil4) twitter app23:28
faenilapart from more normal ones like heavy websites...23:28
strannik1Grr nokia really messes up with small things (they loved to break fast scrolling in symbian)23:29
strannik1It must be a software bug... i doubt that the hardware cant handle it23:29
strannik1Is it always reproducable?23:30
faenilsure it is, it is a software issue man, not a bug, just bad written code23:30
faenilnot optimized, and such23:30
faenilI'm beginning to think the whole top bar (notifications and bar) are not hw accelerated23:31
strannik1I am actually playing with the insane idea of creating a group project of creating our own open source ux23:32
strannik1Nokia should just open source the damm thing already23:32
dm8tbrit's called handset-ux and that's the nemo project23:33
strannik1Although they are releasing their first major software update23:33
strannik1Dm8tbr: ahh ok so that what nemo is. Good stuff . I had to many 4 lettered acronyms fortoday23:35
dm8tbrnemo is not an acronym, it's a name23:35
strannik1Faenil: is there anyway of letting nokia know?23:36
strannik1Dm8tbr: sorry thats what i meant23:36
faenilstrannik1: that's what I was looking for23:36
faenilI should have asked for more info about it at Qt Dev Days at the "N9 Clinic" but I forgot about that :(23:37
faenilI just tried to get more info about the release of n9 update23:39
faeniland all I was told is23:39
faenil"I know when it's coming out and the roadmap, but I can't tell you" :D23:39
strannik1Lol haha XD23:39
faenilevil world :)23:39
strannik1I am trying to find more info on the update23:39
strannik1I dont think they mention what they fixed and what features they added23:41
strannik1Hmm music controls, nfc reading , and some other bullshit , thats all that is mentioned23:43
faenilthey usually release the changelog with the update23:43
faenilslighlty more detailed, but just slightly23:43
strannik1You have both the n9 and the n950?23:45
faenilusing n950 atm coz I can't live without swype23:46
strannik1Hahaha :)23:46
strannik1Same slow downs on the n950?23:47
strannik1Apparently the camera can do 12megapixels :O23:48
faenilofc same slowdowns23:51
faenilyes it can23:51
faenilalways known that, blogs reported 12mp before n950 was out23:52
strannik1Well yea the n9 teaser video showed 12mp if you freeze frame23:53
strannik1I mean the original metal n9(50) teaser23:54
*** secyritas has joined #harmattan23:54
faeniloh ok23:54
strannik1You know what i mean :) the trailer that showed the metal n950 . But that was supposed to be the n923:56
faenilyeah I know23:57
strannik1They should still release that phone to the public23:58
*** Venemo has joined #harmattan23:59
*** Venemo has joined #harmattan23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!