IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-10-28

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piggzlo..just testing on the n950, a qml app that works fine on my pc...on the 950, the C++ objects i have passed to the QML with setContextProperty() are no longer visible, and im getting reference errors. Any ideas?00:29
npm In http://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Platform_Guide/Publishing_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK/Packaging_your_application_with_Harmattan_Platform_SDK#Adding_metadata_in_the_control_file it says "Version" is a mandatory field. How is it specified in the control file, or is it pulled automatically from the changelog?00:30
npm http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/docs/library/html/guide/html/Developer_Library_Publishing_Meeting_Ovi_Store_entry_requirements.html talks about "Note: When specifying the version number, do not use the debian_revision listed in the Debian Policy. For Harmattan applications published in the Ovi Store, the version number must be in one of the following formats:..."00:31
npm does anybody have some example qtc_packaging files for harmattan that have actually gotten into the Ovi store?00:31
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npmi'm know RPM and fedora and not so much about debian packaging...00:31
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piggznpm: i always use the version from the changelog file, in the format x.y.z00:34
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npmso the version in the changelog file is good enough to satisfy ovi store requirements? as opposed to putting Version: in the rules? ( I'm debian clueless, RPM is the package system i know)00:40
npmi'm trying to wrap up final steps to publish my app and i don't want to get hit by some stupid mistake like forgetting a required field00:41
npmthe issue is that there is no explicit version field other than what's in the changelog... if that's enough to satisfy ovi req's then i'm good.00:41
piggznpm: well, im not going to definitely say thats the case, but thats how my apps in the ovi store have always worked :)00:42
* npm other than updating to Harmattan icons now causes my app to appear twice in the launcher00:42
piggzthankfully, ive just fixed my porblem that was due to harmattan_booster library00:42
npmpiggz: cool thanks. i haven't published to ovi yet so i'm learning.00:43
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npmpiggz: is that for single invocation launching or something else?00:43
piggznpm: also, its worth expecting a few rounds of failures :) ive had several, its worth having patience as each review process takes several days!00:43
npmdoh00:44
npmthat's what i was hoping to avoid. multiple rounds of failures w/ waits between each fail.00:44
npmdo you have your app source online so i can take a look at your qtc_packaging/* files?00:45
piggznpm: something else...it looks like it caches the qml to improve startup time, but seems less than bug free..without it enabled im not getting the reference errors00:45
npmis that something that ovi validation kicked back to you, or some other special issue in your app?00:45
piggzwell, as ive just conifgured dropbox to try dropn9, lest see what happens when i stick them in the public folder :)00:46
piggznpm: thats just something ive found testing locally...hopefully im going to submit this app tonight also00:46
npmi've been saying that for a week now :-(00:47
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piggzheh, me too, just suffer from lack of time to iron things out!00:47
npmwell thanks for letting me worry about one less thing (the version reqt for ovi)00:49
piggznpm: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2016511/pgz-latitude2.tar.bz00:51
piggzthat was the last app i got accepted to the store00:51
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npmcool thanks.00:54
npmat some point we may want to compare source ( when its released) as there may be some overlap : http://code.google.com/p/voicetogoog/00:55
npmit doesn't look as crappy anymore but this is the idea: http://nielsmayer.com/voicetogoog/voicetogoog-map-view.png00:55
piggzsure....looks cool00:58
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rm_workRST38h: can you get to my repo?01:01
rm_worksheeplauncher.net/debs/01:01
rm_worki think my server got DDOSed this morning :/01:01
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piggzah, it seems that harmattan_booster requires app is started with /usr/bin/invoker01:14
npmyeah that's why i mentioned the single invocation launching01:16
npmaka: sed 's:Exec=.*:Exec=invoker --single-instance --type=e /opt/voicetogoog/bin/voicetogoog:' "$(CURDIR)"/../voicetogoog/voicetogoog.desktop > "$(CURDIR)"/debian/voicetogoog/usr/share/applications/voicetogoog.desktop.sed || echo -n01:17
npmoh that reminds me... does ovi store require me to put stuff in /opt/com.nielsmayer.voicetogoog/ or can i put in /opt/voicetogoog ?01:18
npmi found some oddities between "--type=d" and "--type=e"01:18
DocScrutinizerecho -n ??01:19
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npmkeeps the 'rules' file from outputting crap related to sed01:19
DocScrutinizer|| :01:19
npmactually it forces success01:19
piggznpm: opt/voicetogoog should be fine01:19
DocScrutinizer|| true01:19
npmwell those aren't the characters i cut and pasted :-)01:20
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rafael2kI just compiled a hello world in harmattan, but ./a.out dont run02:13
rafael2khow to sign it?02:13
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thprafael2k: if you put it i a .deb, it should work02:16
thprafael2k: i.e. use qt creator to build a .deb package or if you are using scratchbox, use dh_make to create the inital debian/ structure02:17
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thprafael2k: (in case you didn't get the messages above) -> if you package your hello world in a .deb and install it, it will work02:24
rafael2kthp: just a matter of packaging using debian way?02:26
thprafael2k: yep02:27
thprafael2k: as long as you don't need any additional aegis permissions, you don't need to sign/hash anything (or it will be hashed/signed at install time)02:28
thprafael2k: or try aegis' relaxed exec mdoe02:29
thp s/mdoe/mode/02:29
thphttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=3827&page=202:29
rafael2krelaxed mode is no more..02:31
rafael2ki02:31
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rafael2kthe binary just get permission denied02:34
rafael2k ./a.out02:34
rafael2ksh: a.out: Permission denied02:35
rafael2kId like an easy way to run the apps I build in the device. can I create a valid .deb from harmattan itself?02:37
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thprafael2k: dh_make + dpkg-buildpackage02:47
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rafael2kthp: thx!02:51
rafael2kIll now try to workaround the fact that apt wants to delete almost everything to install dh-make..02:52
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wookHeya guys :)05:09
wookProbably all sleeping here too05:09
ieatlintthat's how it begins05:13
wookI need tool for extracting and repaking firmware files (rx-71.bin)05:17
wookGood morning, btw :)05:17
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stroughtonsmithI'm assuming I'm *really* late to the party, but if anyone is interested, I found a fix for the brightness on N9/N950 : http://twitter.com/stroughtonsmith/status/12973893206895001605:20
SpeedEvilah05:21
stroughtonsmiththe AMOLED looks /way/ nicer now that's it's not running at half all the time05:22
SpeedEvilNow, how do you set it to really, really dim.05:22
stroughtonsmiththere's a range of options in the gconf stuff05:23
stroughtonsmithnot sure if you can change the lowest setting, but would be interesting05:23
wookDisplay on n950 is "don't have bad word for it in vocabulary"05:24
SpeedEvilecho >/sys/*/brightness worked at least at one point05:26
wookguys, how to repack firmware? :| (sorry for newbish questions :()05:27
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SpeedEvilWhat were the issues with n950 display?05:29
SpeedEvilMaybe I'm uncritical.05:29
SpeedEvilwook: What are you doing?05:29
wookSpeedevil, well, i am s60 poweruser and just comparation of e7 and n950 makes me feel bad :S with i can repack n950 to e7 :D05:30
wookHowever, i need tool to extract context of rx-71.bin and after i modify it to pack it back to binary05:31
wookOn s60 we have "readimage.exe" and "rofsbuild" for this, but, headers are different from images in s60 and meego05:31
wookJust want to edit some conf files...guess nothing more...05:33
SpeedEvil'repack'05:33
SpeedEvilWhat are you trying to do?05:34
wookYes, repack...05:34
SpeedEvilIf you mean run binarys from n950 on e7, absolutely not.05:34
wookNoooo05:34
wookI am not stuoid or anything (not that much) :D05:34
wookI mentioned e7 just because of display05:35
stroughtonsmithyou're modding the n950 firmware?05:35
stroughtonsmithis it signed?05:35
SpeedEvilSimply modifying conf files won't work if they're signed.05:35
wookStroughtonsmith, i don't know, that'swhy i am here05:35
wookSo, guess there's no rom cooking tools here? Only OEM can play with this? :S this is not COOL at all05:36
SpeedEvilWhat conf files are you trying to modify.05:36
wookSpeedEvil, as you know that file browsing and editind on device is really lousy...mostly i wanted to explore /usr/share/...from pc05:38
SpeedEvilssh device05:38
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stroughtonsmithwook: I wonder, since there's a meego community edition rom for the n950, if you can use that process to help you05:38
wookCan't :S don't have driver05:38
wookI can't download nothing larger than 20mb at the moment :S05:39
SpeedEvilAlso, there is a file browser in ovi05:40
wookHow is ce.bin made?05:40
DocScrutinizerwook: you basically can not mess with harmattan05:41
wookSpeedEvil, can you upload your drivers for me?05:41
stroughtonsmithdunno who runs the community ed stuff. Stskeeps can probably weigh in when it's daytime over there05:41
wookAha05:41
DocScrutinizermeegoCE != harmattan though05:42
wookHmmm05:42
DocScrutinizer100% not equal05:42
stroughtonsmithright, but packaging a flashable OS might help05:42
DocScrutinizeryou can not package a flashable harmattan image05:42
wookI was reading abt CE and flashing process didn't made me like it...toooo many shell commands to memorise for my poor brain :D05:43
wookCan i extract harmattan and pack it as CE is packed?05:43
DocScrutinizerand btw nobody, really *nobody* would want to flash a new image to get your however clever hacks on his device05:43
DocScrutinizerthere's a commonly supported installing process05:44
DocScrutinizerwook, no05:44
DocScrutinizeryou can not package a flashable harmattan image05:44
wookDoc, i am not intending to release mods or something, just for internal use (as always)05:45
DocScrutinizeryou can not package a flashable harmattan image05:45
wookOk then...can anyone upload win32 drivers for n950? :D05:45
DocScrutinizerhell you can't even edit most of the files in /etc/* on a live system without making the device eneter MALF05:46
wookAha05:46
DocScrutinizerand you can not change any of the preinstalled binaries and/or libraries05:47
wookSo...must wait till qtsdk updator download repos :S05:47
DocScrutinizerwon't help05:47
DocScrutinizerwhen I say you can not, then I mean "by no means whatsoever"05:47
SpeedEvilwook: What do you mean by 'drivers'05:48
wookDoc, for some reasons, LandscapeEnabler is not enabling anything, i can't install that "source code editor" for some reason :S05:48
DocScrutinizerduh, I ignored that for a pun05:49
wookSpeedEvil, usb drivers for phone :-O05:49
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wookOnes that comes with qtsdk05:49
DocScrutinizerusblibfoo05:50
DocScrutinizerwindoze05:50
SpeedEvilI use linux.05:50
wookAhh speed, i use win3205:50
DocScrutinizerprobably 80..90% here do05:50
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wookI am 1% who's playing with ReactOS and XP :D05:51
DocScrutinizernevertheless you're lucky ~flashing has generic advice for windows users as well, applicable to harmatan flashing almost 1:105:51
DocScrutinizer~flashing05:51
infobotwell, maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware05:51
wookI've just flashed phone ;) that works fine though05:53
wookTtyl guys, cu06:00
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TSCHAKeeehmm Expansys not shipping 64GB N9 units yet in the US07:24
TSCHAKeeeanyone know of anywhere else in the US that is?07:24
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djszapiX-Fade: https://build.pub.meego.com/package/files?package=soprano&project=home%3Arzr%3Aharmattan -> Not possible to delete files, maybe because of the '+' character ?11:12
X-Fadedjszapi: How do you want to delete? Using webui or osc?11:18
djszapiosc works; webui does not.11:19
djszapibut please do not delete this since it is now building.11:19
djszapimy guess is that the webinterface does not allow deleting packages containing '+' character. For instance, I cannot even upload them properly from the webui, just from osc.11:19
X-Fadedjszapi: Ok, well let's hope that is an OBS 2.1 issue. We're going to upgrade to 2.3 this weekend :)11:20
djszapiX-Fade: okay.11:20
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* X-Fade wants to point developers to http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4803, prepare your packages for apps.formeego.org11:40
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alteregolardman|gone: was gonna do a enum but string type is okay I guess ;)12:03
dm8tbrX-Fade: nice! :)12:10
X-Fadedm8tbr: Let's get the ball rolling :)12:11
djszapiX-Fade: you at least test it for regressions before the update ?12:11
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X-Fadedjszapi: Yes, but no way you can find everything.12:16
X-FadeAnd 2.1 is basically unsupported atm, so we have to upgrade.12:16
djszapiok, just saying since there were some regressions in the near past.12:18
X-Fadedjszapi: Sure, and I guarantee there will be now too.12:21
X-FadeBut let's hope the pros are more than the cons :)12:21
djszapithe problem is not that if there are corner cases regressions, but the fundamental ones should be caught imho.12:22
djszapifor instance a continous compiler crash is easy to catch ..12:22
X-Fadedjszapi: That has nothing to do with OBS.12:23
X-FadeSo that is not the problem.12:23
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djszapiwell, it worked previously, and also works locally.12:23
X-Fadedjszapi: That is qemu, which is not OBS.12:23
X-Fadedjszapi: So upgrading our OBS will not fix that.12:23
djszapiqemu works fine locally.12:23
djszapialso, without an obs update previously, it worked oob12:23
djszapiand there were more continous issues like that that was easy to catch by us during the update "testing".12:24
X-FadeOBS is just a set of scripts which call the things that do the actual stuff.12:24
X-FadeYour problem is a complicated thing with arm emulation, has nothing to do with OBS per se.12:24
djszapiwell, I do consider it as regressions for the users if something worked for them, and does not work after the obs update.12:25
djszapiwhatever causes it, it is not nice, and should not be upgraded until figured out imho.12:25
X-Fadeagain, nothing to do with OBS.12:25
djszapiit only happens on OBS really, you can ask others who said the same.12:26
X-FadeIt will also happen in a plain chroot with the same tools.12:26
djszapinever happened for me.12:26
X-FadeAnyway, not going to argue. I have better things to do.12:26
djszapialso, it even worked locally, and also another repository.12:26
djszapithat is a very sad consequence if a feedback is considerd as "arguing".12:27
X-FadeNo, we're looking into things. This is complicated and you are very close to being a troll.12:27
djszapiAll I said is that there were serious regressions, and would be better to have a bit more QA process for the upgrading. If this is trolling, okay, I stand it.12:29
X-FadeWell, you can help by using osc to do local builds and try with different versions of qemu.12:30
djszapias I said, did, worked.12:31
djszapithat is why I gave this feedback for better QA in the future ..12:31
X-Fadedjszapi: Where did you list the combinations that worked?12:31
djszapiactually, I even reported some of those.12:31
djszapi(no answer since reporting)12:32
X-Fadedjszapi: I need exact versions, tested in openSUSE.12:32
djszapiyes, it is all in the relevant bugreports.12:32
X-Fadedjszapi: Also, you can drop a qemu in your home project and try to build with that.12:32
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djszapiX-Fade: all we could do is watching with big innocent eyes why it works everywhere but c-obs.12:33
X-FadeThis way you can help out yourself.12:34
djszapi( and why the same package built previously before an update )12:34
X-FadeOr you can keep talking about it and we might never find the real cause.12:34
djszapiwhat else can I do than testing locally ?12:34
X-Fadedjszapi: Also, you can drop a qemu in your home project and try to build with that.12:35
djszapiand reporting the issue with the exact details ?12:35
djszapiI did not understand that sentence for the first try either. Could you please reword it ?12:35
X-FadeYou can add a qemu package to your project.12:35
X-FadeYou can then use that qemu instead of the system qemu.12:35
djszapiwell, it is the same version basically.12:36
X-FadeSo you can test different versions out on the obs version itself.12:36
X-Fade-version12:36
djszapiyes, sure, I can do that for my X package, but I am sure it is better to automate the regression unit tests before an upgrade.12:37
djszapithan everybody starts dropping "random" qemus into every homeprojects.12:37
X-Fadedjszapi: No, that is not the point. But that will prove that that version is working for you and then I can replace the system qemu.12:37
X-FadeThat way you actually help testing, instead of just complaining.12:38
djszapiit should be caught pre-update by the system, and not pro-update by individual users for X packages.12:38
X-FadeWe're 2 guys doing it in our spare time. Hire me and get more support.12:39
djszapithat is not really I see as community12:39
djszapito pay 2 people.12:39
djszapiI would more like prefer to give access to other contributors..12:39
djszapithat is how the community works after all12:39
X-FadeWell, I told you how to help out.12:40
* X-Fade goes to get coffee12:40
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vadimqX-Fade: what project are you working on?12:45
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fluxgreat. is devel-sh now gone?13:24
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fluxah, just renamed13:25
fluxand no changes in output of accli -I. phew.13:25
flux(it's develsh now)13:25
deramdevel-sh? what did that do?13:26
fluxgives access to various things a normal root doesn't have13:26
deramremember using devel-su, but not -sh13:26
fluxsuch as iptables13:26
Kaadlajkpretty sure it was always develsh13:27
fluxhmm13:27
kimjuiirc it was with both names.13:27
Kaadlajkkimju: true, at least with >1.13-11 version of develsh13:30
MohammadAGit was develsh afaik13:31
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DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# devel14:58
DocScrutinizerdevel-su  develsh14:58
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KaadlajkRM696-39-4_PR_001:~# devel15:03
Kaadlajkdevel-sh  devel-su  develsh15:03
meceis it possible to get sudo on N950?15:04
meceI find devel-su inconvenient since I want the command history in one place15:05
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deramdoes devel-su have -c option for setting runned command15:10
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mecederam, would that be like devel-su -c apt-get update15:12
deramprobably -c "apt-get update"15:12
meceyes!15:13
mecenice thanks!15:13
mece:;D15:13
meceoops15:13
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mecehmm so perhaps I could alias that, now the other problem is that it always require password tho.15:13
VelmontTwo questions;   1) How can I change font size in messages?  - The web browser is also not so good as Android in zooming into text (because it doesn't restrict the width in the same way).15:13
mecewhereas sudo usually have a certain time where you can use without re-entering password15:14
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derammece: yyes.. that is one of the drawbacks15:14
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mecederam, is there anything in particular that hinders sudo from working?15:14
VelmontThe second one I'm not so interested in myself, but an aquanitance asked about syncing with the N9 using Ovi Suite, -- it doesn't work he says. -- I use Linux so I don't care personally :-)15:15
deramI don't know if aegis lets you have own suid programs in there....15:15
deramsudo would have to be owned by root and have SUID bit set...15:15
meceok..15:16
mecehmm there's sudo in the repos...15:16
vadimqquestion, is it possible to buy the N950 now?15:16
mecevadimq, no15:16
vadimqhmm, I figured, there seems to be a lot of talk about it though. So the N9 isn't getting a lot of use?15:17
mecevadimq, it's just that developers got N950's from Nokia, and some of them are here.15:18
vadimqmakes sense15:18
mecederam, is there a way to test if one can set the suid bit?15:19
derammece: copy /bin/sh to say /bin/mysh and chmod u+s /bin/mysh... then try to run it15:20
deramif you get root shell, suid worked15:20
mecerun it as user?15:21
deramyes as user15:22
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meceI get "applet not found"15:22
mecebut /bin/mysh is -rwsr-xr-x <- so it has the s there...15:24
deramit's probably not the setting the bit, but the system acting on it15:25
meceok..15:25
mecehmm /usr/bin/sudo is aegis protected, so I don't think I'll be messing with that.15:25
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derammece: sorry, I made mistake.. didn't remember sh is busybox application in n915:28
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mecederam, so what changes?15:28
deramyou need to copy it somewhere else with exact name sh15:29
deramor try with any other app15:29
mecederam, but the goal would be to do chmod u+s /usr/bin/sudo ?15:30
deramyes, if it is not handled by aegis already15:30
mecewell apparently not, but wouldn't aegis be upset if I did it?15:30
derammaybe..15:30
deram/bin/devel-su does not seam to have suid on, so it would seem to be handled with aegis instead of suid bits...15:31
deramusually in linux sudo is suid program15:32
kimjuwith aegis and correct manifests you don't need to set the suid bit.15:33
deramI really need to look more into this whole aegis...15:34
deramit seems to be the road to root access in there, and the suid bit does nothin15:36
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vadimqderam: it looks like it's possible to load an alternate kernel to open things up, but that seems to make a lot of stuff stop working15:40
vadimqbtw, what is aegis stopping you from doing?15:41
deramthere was this question would sudo be possible to be used... I tried to answer, but was bit misinformed...15:43
deramso sudo with correct aegis manifest should be usable as is without any suiding?15:43
clbrvadimq: aegis was stopping me from directly modifying the calendar (sqlite) database. needed to delete hundreds of empty "PC-SYNC" calendars left from isync-plugin-testing. if you need examples15:45
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vadimqhmm, that does sound like a pain. How do you backup it?15:48
vadimqwith the N900 I just rsync the whole thing regularly15:48
DocScrutinizerderam: aegis is the road to administration-"free" consumer-only devices. For sure not the road to "root access" whatever you think that means. You got root on HARM, just it doesn't do what you think, thanks to aegis15:49
DocScrutinizerderam: and you can't get the required aegis tokens, as some are available to Nokia only15:50
clbrvadimq: you can read it, just not modify15:50
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vadimqHere I'm hoping that an alternative fully open distro for phones and such devices catches on. Buy the device and reflash it15:50
clbrand also not restore from backup15:50
DocScrutinizerclbr: vadimq: indeed, restore is impossible15:51
clbri can't see the point, reading should be forbidden for privary issues15:51
deramDocScrutinizer: yes.. I was thinking in means to gaining root access on the N9 harmattan. It seems to go through aegis and not kernel suid interpretation..15:51
DocScrutinizerclbr: aegis is about protecting device from you, not protecting your data from threats15:52
deramand it is perfectly fine for now that way.15:52
clbrDocScrutinizer: I know15:52
clbrDocScrutinizer: I really wonder if it mostly about proctecting something in the device I shouldn't know. But let's not get paranoid15:53
clbrat least the hosts-file is used15:53
clbrand writeable15:54
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DocScrutinizerclbr: it for example reliably forbids overclocking. Just for that I almost might like aegis15:54
clbrmy N900 is running better with 850 than the stock 600, but I unterstand the idea15:55
DocScrutinizerclbr: a lot of files are writeable. The question is what happens immediately after write access ;-P Buzzword MALF15:55
clbrIt just should be possible to have your own signing key, a user-controllable aegis15:55
DocScrutinizerthe fun part of aegis: it doesn't forbid, it punishes15:55
vadimqDocScrutinizer: tried flashing it with Meego CE?15:56
clbryeah, very old-school concept of society control15:56
vadimqhm? punishes how? that's interesting15:56
DocScrutinizerclbr: won't ever happen, for very complicated set of reasons15:56
clbrall those cloud-service are far more advanced15:56
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DocScrutinizer(user key)15:56
clbrin that they let the user self-control himself15:56
clbrDocScrutinizer: If the base keys are at Nokia, maybe something smuggles them out15:57
DocScrutinizervadimq: search for MALF15:57
clbrbut I read your messages from yesterday, thanks for the explanations15:57
razvanpetruhi everyone, quick question - running around with devmode enabled on an unsecured wi-fi - what could be the consequences?15:58
clbrrazvanpetru: depends on if you changed the root password, if I understand correctly15:58
vadimqDocScrutinizer: hm, search where? Not finding anything on google15:58
clbrdevice MALFunction15:59
razvanpetrunothing changed, out of the box harmattan with devmode enabled15:59
DocScrutinizerhttp://maemo.cloud-7.de/Aegis-kills-device.jpg15:59
razvanpetrua lot of people were doing this at devdays I bet :)15:59
Jonnorazvanpetru: Shouldn't do anything unless someone sees your devmode password, or know the password for "user" or "root" (which have a default value you really should change)15:59
clbrrazvanpetru: then everyone should be able to login as root via ssh15:59
vadimqDocScrutinizer: whoa, screwy. Is this fixable by reflashing?16:00
DocScrutinizeryes16:00
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JonnoIt's fixable by changing your password using the terminal.16:00
b00^portalhello guys16:00
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DocScrutinizerthe result of changing any aegis-protected bit, be it a file, a permission, whatever16:01
clbrrazvanpetru: yes, use use "passwd" as root and set your own16:01
b00^portalquestion:  where would I get information on the nfc driver in the MeeGo/Harmattan  linux kernel ?16:01
vadimqDocScrutinizer: ok, I'm convinced I really don't like this thing. So any ways around it, or funtional third party firmware?16:01
DocScrutinizerget meegoCE16:01
clbrvadimq: one day nemo might be an alternative16:01
DocScrutinizerforget harmattan, completely16:01
clbrmeegoCE = nemo16:01
DocScrutinizererr, yep16:02
JonnoMeeGo CE isn't really ready yet, but if you want to play around with it, see my howto at http://jon.severinsson.net/N9CE16:02
JonnoNemo should be better, but are only "ready" (eg alpha) for N900, no N950 or N9 yet.16:02
razvanpetruthanks, so let's assume someone did login as root with ssh, can they install malware/spyware or does aegis at least prevent that?16:03
Jonnothey can install anything you could, eg any arm deb16:03
vadimqJonno: is it expected to be functional as a phone with full support for the hardware?16:03
Jonnovadimq: NO16:03
fluxcan one enable the 'install from non-ovi sources' option over ssh?16:03
JonnoN9CE's only connectivity is the USB cable.16:03
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DocScrutinizerrazvanpetru: the fun bit is aegis doesn't completely forbid installing "malware"16:04
DocScrutinizerdepending on your definition of malware16:04
SpeedEvilDocScrutinizer: Is it possible to programatically tick 'install apps from non-ovi sources'16:04
razvanpetrukeybd logger, something that reads tracker & uploads it somewhere16:04
vadimqJonno: you mean not now but maybe later, or probably not ever?16:04
DocScrutinizeraegis however ensures the *system* is intact16:04
razvanpetruI'll just reflash this thing :(16:05
clbrDocScrutinizer: but it forbid installing malware blockers, like a local visual firewall16:05
Jonnovadimq: not now, but probably in a few months, when Nemo gets of the ground.16:05
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: good question, for sure it is possible, just the question: which tokens are needed16:05
SpeedEvilI mean - if it can't be - you need to get your malware into ovi store before it can be automatically run16:06
DocScrutinizeryes16:06
clbrrazvanpetru: I wouldn't think script kiddies are already targeting N9/N950 in developer mode16:06
razvanpetruhas anyone done any dbus work on n9? I hear there might be a vuln where mail user/pass are sent in the clear through dbus...16:06
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DocScrutinizerbut OP asked for a situation where develmode already enabled16:06
b00^portalanyone working with nfc on N9 here by any chance ?16:06
razvanpetruclbr: yeah, but maybe someone was naughty at qtdd16:06
razvanpetrub00 - I am :)16:06
clbri see ;-)16:07
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  where do I get info on the hardware rfid reader they have on that phone ?16:07
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: >><razvanpetru> thanks, so let's assume someone did login as root with ssh...<<16:07
b00^portalrazvanpetru, info on driver, and support libs, etc16:07
fluxdocscrutinizer, but you need to enable separately the ability to install non-ovi apps, don't you?16:07
fluxbut if that is as well enabled, well, perhaps you need to ensure people don't log in as root to your phone :)16:08
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razvanpetrub00: it seems you need very low level info and I don't know where you might get that. I assume you need to do an API partnering with Nokia or know someone that works on the NFC team.16:08
razvanpetruBUT, if you just need to use the thing, the docs/libraries are quite good16:09
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  i need to get lower acces that the Qt mobility16:09
razvanpetrulower than sending commands?16:09
b00^portalI need to know if there is any configuration you can set on the kernel module for example,16:09
b00^portalwhat if at all nfcd can be configured ,16:09
razvanpetruah yes, you need to talk with meego team, there is no way to get that info16:09
b00^portalwhats inside the nfc hal they have, etc16:10
b00^portalah, i see16:10
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  is that meego team at Nokia ?  I tried at #meego, and was redirected here kindly :)16:10
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DocScrutinizerb00^portal: no way to mess with kernel modules etc, paegis forbids16:11
clbrtry #meltemi (just kidding)16:11
b00^portalpaegis ?16:11
razvanpetrub00, I don't think you can get to them on IRC, at least not this server16:11
razvanpetruheh, does settings > reset > clear device restore the device as I would flash a bin on it? I don't want to flash it unless I need to...16:12
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  oh i see.  So what would you recomment? I can post on Nokia Developer forum , see if anyone would reply ?16:12
DocScrutinizer~paegis is the ~aegis policy, a short term used to make those happy who claim aegis is great and just the particular policy is flawed16:12
infobotokay, DocScrutinizer16:12
clbrrazvanpetru: no, root password e.g. does not get reset by a factory reset16:12
clbrrazvanpetru: mostly /home/user and /opt i guess16:12
razvanpetruclbr: good enough to get rid of malware/spyware? :)16:13
clbrdon't think so16:13
razvanpetrugrr16:13
clbrI had problems to get developer mode activated after, posted the workaround here yesterday16:13
clbrand there isn't an official flash image for the N9, or?16:14
razvanpetrunope, not yet afaik16:14
DocScrutinizerI guess there's none yet16:14
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  what do you do with nfc on N9 ?16:14
razvanpetrub00 - pokenMOBILE16:16
b00^portala game ?16:16
razvanpetruno, it's like a digital businesscard16:17
Corsacbtw, do some people here got their device from handtec and have a voucher code?16:17
razvanpetruit's the so-called "social" NFC16:17
fluxit's a shame it's not the secure variant16:17
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  social nfc, ok ... no clue :)16:18
razvanpetrub00 - well you can exchange contacts, add them to a timeline and then see what they've been up to. pick up objects from conferences and then comment on them, view attached docs, pics, etc16:19
razvanpetruit's social because you interact with people16:19
razvanpetrusecure nfc is payments, etc16:19
b00^portalah ok16:19
DocScrutinizerrazvanpetru: hah, my r0ket did sth like that :-)16:19
razvanpetrur0ket? :)16:20
razvanpetruflux: what would you use secure nfc for?16:20
hiemanshua badge thing IIRC16:20
fluxrazvanpetru, for example physical access control16:20
fluxof course, I could just make-do with the current one and ignore the security issues :)16:21
razvanpetrucan you work around them enough or do you really need the hw?16:21
fluxI don't know anything about the hw or the protocol :)16:22
fluxbut it sounds to me like only the secure nfc is, well, secure16:22
clbrrazvanpetru: isn't secure NFC mostly about certification?16:22
razvanpetruclbr, I think you need special hw also16:22
fluxthat is, not subject to MITM or replay attacks or whatever16:22
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b00^portal<razvanpetru> lower than sending commands?16:23
b00^portalcan you send commands directly ?16:23
fluxI'm not saying it's less secure than simple access control tags people use these days16:23
flux(as I don't really know)16:23
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  tag specific commands16:23
razvanpetrub00, you can16:24
* RST38h yawns, asks what's up16:25
razvanpetrualthough, I think this is only on Symbian. the docs say that maemo6 does not support tag specific access16:25
b00^portalrazvanpetru,  yes ...16:25
b00^portalwhy, or why ..16:25
b00^portalseriously a flaw16:25
razvanpetrumaybe it will in later pr versions16:25
b00^portalyea ok16:25
chouchounehi16:27
DocScrutinizerrazvanpetru: http://r0ket.badge.events.ccc.de/software16:27
chouchounehw specification doesn't include security I think16:27
DocScrutinizerhttp://r0ket.badge.events.ccc.de/16:27
chouchouneErnst Haselsteiner and Klemens Breitfuß described different possible types of attacks, and detail how to leverage NFC's resistance to Man-in-the-middle attacks to establish a specific key.[37] Unfortunately, as this technique is not part of the ISO standard, NFC offers no protection against eavesdropping and can be vulnerable to data modifications. Applications may use higher-layer cryptographic16:28
chouchouneprotocols (e.g., SSL) to establish a secure channel. Ensuring security for NFC data will require the cooperation of multiple parties: device providers, who will need to safeguard NFC-enabled phones with strong cryptography and authentication protocols; customers, who will need to protect their personal devices and data with passwords, keypad locks, and anti-virus software; and application providers16:28
chouchoune and transaction parties, who will need to use anti-virus and other security solutions to prevent spyware and malware from infecting systems.[38]16:28
RST38hDoc: What is our current firmware version btw?16:28
RST38hchouchoune: A URL would suffice16:28
chouchounehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_field_communication16:29
chouchoune> Security aspects16:29
razvanpetruDoc: cool16:29
chouchouneconcerning Qt, I think that secure NFC is not part of the SDK yet but will be in the future16:29
DocScrutinizersorry guys, no highlighting on "doc:"16:30
DocScrutinizerRST38h: see /topic ?16:31
RST38hAha, tthanks16:31
RST38hSo, Koreans have not got the update yet16:31
RST38hAnd thus killed my Ovi submissions16:32
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DocScrutinizer(doc:) if you feel DocScrutinizer is too long to type, and your IRC client is too crappy to feature auto nick completion, you may use "joerg:" or "DocSc:"16:38
DocScrutinizereven docsc:16:38
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razvanpetrupidgin does have nick completion, but it's not auto :)16:40
rlinfatib00^portal, what do you wanna do with nfc=16:45
b00^portalrlinfati, ok ,16:45
b00^portalI want , for starters, know more about the hardware reader and driver,16:46
b00^portalto know if they can pickup tags which are not common nfc (yet)16:47
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b00^portali have a specific tag (looking for an ISO standard..), which , manufactuerr says,16:47
b00^portalare readable by NFC enabled sets16:48
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b00^portalhowever, as I tried, i dont' see N9'16:48
b00^portalpicking it up, thus16:48
b00^portalI'm wondering if its really the reader, driver, configuration, nfc lib, or .. which is not ready16:48
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X-Fadeb00^portal: N9 sees my passport for instance.16:49
rlinfatithe N9 detect the tag ?16:49
djszapiX-Fade: is it possible to upload files to obs containing '+' character using the webui ? (2.3 version)16:49
b00^portalI'm working with this specific tag on the EEPROM side (internal system), and external PC RFID client16:49
b00^portalX-Fade,  yes, i know, it reads my bus card too16:49
b00^portalrlinfati,  as far as the nfcinfo test app , and the traces from the nfsd - no16:50
b00^portalbut .. I hope its because its misconfigured :))))16:50
b00^portalstupid me ?16:50
X-FadeI can unlock angrybirds levels with my passport ;)16:50
b00^portalhahahah :)16:50
X-FadeIt actually worked :)16:51
b00^portalyyea it does16:51
rlinfatiX-Fade, i can unlock using "vi"16:51
X-Faderlinfati: Yeah, did that too. But that is less cool :D16:51
b00^portali did not quite get why they did this16:51
b00^portalbut its ..fun i guess16:51
rlinfatib00^portal, if the nfc not detect the tag, you can not do nothing about, aegis protect all files16:52
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rlinfatiif you edit, modify the nfc stack, the N9 will be MALF16:53
X-Fadedjszapi: Yes.16:53
b00^portalrlinfati, whats a dissapointment..  and now i need ot check wtf is aegis16:53
DocScrutinizer~aegis16:54
infobothttp://www.developer.nokia.com/Community/Wiki/Harmattan:Developer_Library/Developing_for_Harmattan/Harmattan_security/Security_guide , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_Computing#Criticism, or  http://en.qi-hardware.com/w/images/1/10/ME_382_LockedUpTechnology2.gif16:54
rafael2kHi people, I mailed Quim about the aegis and the SDK been outdated16:54
rafael2kI got a "look at the forum" anwser16:54
rlinfatib00^portal, or use MeegoCE/Mer (it's support nfc ? ) or .... ¿?16:54
b00^portalMeegoCE/Mer ?16:55
b00^portalok , .. will look16:55
b00^portalCE - windows CE ???16:55
djszapiCommunity Edition.16:55
rafael2kIf I have time this night I'll try to write a script that gets a binary I want to run and packs it into a deb, install the deb and run the binary16:55
b00^portaloops16:55
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rlinfatihttp://wiki.meego.com/ARM/N95016:56
djszapirlinfati: nfc is a hardware chip, it is not just software thingy16:56
b00^portalyea, and no info in that chip,16:56
rafael2kI would consider the N950 my best phone if I could get rid of this annoying aegis stuff16:56
pycageX-Fade, hi16:56
djszapihard to manage nfc without the relevant chip ;)16:56
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b00^portali've asked on Nokia forum, perhaps they reply .. unlikely will get anywhere . ah wlel16:56
b00^portalwell pitty16:57
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djszapipitty what ?16:59
b00^portalthe main thing that my tag not picked up, and that, i hoped perhaps I can get some more info on that hardware reader, get soem more info and perhaps add the required configuration for it to read my tag ? :)17:00
b00^portalbtw, I dont' see N9 listed as able to run the meegoCE17:00
rafael2kb00^portal: try at #meego channel17:01
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b00^portalk17:02
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djszapirafael2k: what is wrong about aegis ?17:03
b00^portalis there an 'aegis disabler' :)17:04
djszapiofc nope17:04
djszapirafael2k: the script you wanna write is an available deb tool for many years..17:04
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DocScrutinizerno17:06
DocScrutinizerand it seems Nokia platsec is resolutely determined to fix any detail in aegis that would allow any such aegis disabler17:08
b00^portalwell its gay17:09
DocScrutinizer(which btw is the reason I'm still on 22-6 here)17:09
b00^portalDocScrutinizer, and what is a 22-6 ?17:10
DocScrutinizerthe first firmware version N950 shipped with - allows some eagis disabling via a hack17:11
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grihmm17:35
griwhole city controlled by the police now, machine guns everywhere17:36
Corsacwhere?17:36
griaugsburg germany - some guys shot a policeman this morning and now the bavarian police is checking everywhere in the city17:37
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Corsacwow17:38
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DocScrutinizerdoes birthday "calendar" work in recent RP ?17:50
DocScrutinizeryay Augsburg17:51
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griRP?17:58
gridocScrutinizer: yes, very nice ... the sister of my girlfriend is a policegirl (?) but on holiday these days18:00
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Arkenoihow to get to the battery on n950? i remove screws first, but cover still does not go off, what next?18:01
X-FadeArkenoi: Why do you need to be in there?18:04
Arkenoii bricked it and seems that battery is dead, i want to charge it to try coldflashing18:04
MohammadAGI thought it should charge fine as is18:05
pycageX-Fade, hi, I removed a few bugs on the apps client18:05
X-FadeArkenoi: Use a usb cable to charge.18:05
ArkenoiX-Fade: would i ask if it charged? it is completely bricked.18:05
X-FadeArkenoi: And start the flasher. It will charge your device before it flashes. (Needs 10%)18:05
Arkenoicompletely, i mean, it does not appear as usb device at all18:05
X-FadeArkenoi: I had that happen and when I left it in the flasher it charged and flashed it.18:06
Arkenoinor it did flash when it was recognised as "Nokia ROM"18:06
X-FadeArkenoi: But it did blip the led flash a few times.18:06
X-FadeEhm, the white led on the front I mean.18:06
X-Fadepycage: Ah, did you find out the install issue?18:07
pycagethe check no longer hangs now18:07
pycagei was able to install attitude e.g.18:07
X-Fadepycage: Cool.18:07
pycagesome other stuff could not be installed because the packages must be in another repo18:08
Arkenoiso i better try to get to the battery, it might help at least18:08
X-FadeYeah, not every app in Apps installs now anyway. Left over from some of our tests.18:08
pycageI'm now trying to build on OBS, but OBS itself seems to have some issues atm18:08
X-FadeArkenoi: Yeah then you can charge it manually.18:08
X-Fadepycage: Yeah, I just imported beta2. So it takes a while for that to sync over to meego.com.18:09
Arkenoii need to take the battery out and to use clip-on charger18:09
Arkenoiand then try coldflashing18:09
pycageX-Fade, ah, ok18:09
X-Fadepycage: Did you fix the makefile generation?18:10
pycagei hope so18:10
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X-Fadepycage: hehe, let's see :)18:10
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pycageversion is displayed again in the packages list18:11
X-FadeOk, cool.18:11
pycagethat was my fault that it got lost :)18:11
X-Fadepycage: hehe, that happens :)18:12
Arkenoiso the question remains: how i take the cover off?18:12
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pycageArkenoi, I don't think you're supposed to do that, though, since the N950 is property of Nokia and not your's actually ;)18:12
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Arkenoipycage: i am pretty sure they won't blame me if i try that :-)18:13
X-FadeI guess that is still fair use.18:13
kimjuArkenoi, remove the screws, then start from the speaker corner, lastly the usb connector. note that the whole back cover comes off, not only the grooved part where the screws where18:13
berndhsArkenoi: torx 4 screwdriver I think18:13
DocScrutinizerachipa considered removing and losing the screws a normal part of the unboxing procedure of N95018:14
Arkenoii already unscrewed it18:14
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Arkenoijust afraid to apply any force to the cover as something might break18:14
DocScrutinizerthen open it next to speaker. See landing page as in /topic18:14
pycageDocScrutinizer, lol :)18:14
pycagegood to know that18:14
kimjuit comes off quite easily, no excessive force required.18:14
DocScrutinizeryes, but you need to start next to speaker, not in the middle18:15
Jaffapycage: Installed using your client?18:15
DocScrutinizerboth ends are part of the cover and come off as well18:15
pycageJaffa, yes18:15
Jaffapycage: Cool. What's the project page coordinating your installer / any screenshots yet?18:15
X-FadeJaffa: We're using your app as a test in Apps :)18:16
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Hardware_related_bits18:16
X-FadeJaffa: But then again, it has always been one of the first apps :)18:16
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pycageJaffa, sorry, there are no screenshots yet, but we have a git repo for the code18:16
pycageJaffa, https://meego.gitorious.org/meego-applications/meego-apps-client18:16
X-Fadepycage: I'll add some screenhots to the project.18:16
X-Fadepycage: We need it to put the client in Apps anyway :D18:17
pycageX-Fade, yeah :D18:17
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: but al that won't earn you anything regading battery charging as long as you don't own a external charger or compatible device or fresh batery18:18
X-Fadepycage: Your app is now building.18:18
razvanpetrulike nokia dc-1118:18
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: i am going to buy and external charger18:19
pycageX-Fade, nice *crossing fingers* :)18:19
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: ok then, You managed to remove the back cover now?18:19
X-FadeArkenoi: 4V, 1A should be fine for a few minutes too ;)18:19
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: it's really easy when you know how to do it18:19
X-FadeArkenoi: If you have a lab powersupply.18:20
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: yep18:20
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: lab PSU is usually way too "hard"18:20
DocScrutinizerX-Fade: I.E. way too low impedance18:21
X-Fadepycage: Very long madde paths still in there.18:22
DocScrutinizerunless you have a PSU that doesn'T fold back but rather limits the max current and you can adjust that to 1A (or rather 750mA)18:22
JaffaX-Fade: Quite right :-)18:22
Arkenoii wonder why they made it the way it may get stuck in situation it cannot charge18:23
DocScrutinizerusually lab PSU have a fold back characteristic that basically completely switches off output voltage when max current gets tripped18:23
X-FadeArkenoi: Normally if you leave it on regular usb it will do some emergency charging.18:24
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X-FadeArkenoi: Will still act dead, but in fact it charges.18:24
DocScrutinizeryes18:24
DocScrutinizerwell, LED will shine, or even flash18:24
pycageX-Fade, hmm, right. the Makefiles don't have to be there anyway since they're autogenerated by qmake :)18:24
X-Fadepycage: But your qmake includepath or so is wrong.18:25
DocScrutinizerafaik18:25
DocScrutinizernot tested yet18:25
X-Fadepycage: Should point to /usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf instead of /usr/lib/madde/linux-i686/sysroots/meego-core-ia32-madde-sysroot-1.2.0-fs/usr/share/qt4/mkspecs/linux-g++/qmake.conf18:25
ArkenoiX-Fade: seems that it does not. i guess while it presented itself as "nokia ROM" there was some remaining charge and when it is gone it became completely deaf and dumb18:25
pycageX-Fade, which file do you mean?18:26
DocScrutinizerand, as X-Fade mentioned, plugging it to PC with flasher started will always initiate charging18:26
Arkenoii have no other explanation to the way it behaves18:26
X-Fadepycage: Well, it shows now in attica.18:26
X-FadeArkenoi: Did you keep it in your pocket for a while and then tried charging?18:26
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: if it still shows up on USB, yes18:27
X-FadeArkenoi: Added warmth might just push it over the edge.18:27
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: err, what? shows up on USB?18:27
ArkenoiX-Fade: yes18:27
X-FadeToo bad. I guess you really have to do the hack thing then.18:27
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: as i mentioned before, it entered "completely dead" state after being detected as "Nokia ROM" which still refused cold flash for a while18:28
Arkenoibefore that it was detected as "Nokia update mode" and tried to flash18:28
DocScrutinizerthat's where flasher kicks in18:28
Arkenoifailed with rootfs, though, complaining about certificates and stuff.18:28
DocScrutinizeryou may need that -charge-battery parameter18:29
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: now there is no "Nokia ROM", just nothing at all18:29
DocScrutinizero.O18:29
Arkenoiwhen you plug it in there is no new device in USB18:29
DocScrutinizersorry "in USB" doesn't translate to any of my MMI on my PC18:30
Arkenoiand i hope charging might help18:30
Arkenoihuh? i just check dmesg to see if anything new appears, there is nothing18:30
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DocScrutinizerif you say there's no log in your PC's syslog then I'd say you probably should get an external charger18:31
Arkenoibingo18:31
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Arkenoithat's what i am trying to do :-)18:31
ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: actually i still feel there is a bit of misdesign in the fact such a state is possible18:31
DocScrutinizerthough actually bat removal for 5 min might reset some hw to a state where it resumes emergency charging18:32
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: for sure18:32
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Arkenoihmm, worth trying :-)18:32
DocScrutinizerthis must not happen, ever18:32
DocScrutinizerthough, wait a minute18:33
DocScrutinizeremergency charging works *only* with a Nokia conforming fastcharger18:33
DocScrutinizerby detecting the D+- short18:33
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: well, will try that better, thanks18:34
DocScrutinizeryw18:34
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DocScrutinizercome back report please18:34
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Arkenoiwow, i got led lit18:35
DocScrutinizer:-D18:35
DocScrutinizertoldya18:35
Arkenoinot blinking, just steady light18:35
DocScrutinizeryup18:35
DocScrutinizerthat's emergency charging18:36
DocScrutinizerwhen it starts to blink, this means CPU actually "booted" (something, probably NOLO)18:36
DocScrutinizershouldn't take too long until that18:37
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DocScrutinizerusually a few minutes max18:37
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DocScrutinizertha miracle of BQ24153 charger chip ;-)18:38
DocScrutinizerdoes autonomous charging, without CPU supporting it18:39
DocScrutinizerneeds enable from USB PHY detecting D+- short though18:39
DocScrutinizeronce battery level reaches the threshold where CPU can come up, the system will boot, I.E. load NOLO18:40
DocScrutinizerNOLO probably switches LED to flashing mode then, and continues to chage a bit more18:40
DocScrutinizereventually it tries to boot into linux18:40
Arkenoii was back to my n900 for two days18:41
Arkenoiall woes of modest, microb and others18:41
DocScrutinizerthat one works exactly same way18:41
DocScrutinizerregarding charging18:41
DocScrutinizerso basically ~flatbatrecover applies to N950 as well18:42
DocScrutinizer~flatbatrecover18:42
infobotRemove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered Nokia wallcharger to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber going off - in this case start over again with ~flatbatrecover18:42
DocScrutinizers/amber/white/18:43
DocScrutinizerbat removal dispensable, usually18:43
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DocScrutinizerArkenoi: still no flashing amber err white?18:45
Arkenoiyep18:45
DocScrutinizero.O18:45
Arkenoistill constantly lit18:45
pycageX-Fade, looking good now. I killed the unnecessary Makefiles18:46
DocScrutinizerwell, keep it18:46
rafael2kdjszapi: what deb tool?18:46
DocScrutinizerit's charging18:46
DocScrutinizerif you haven't killed your system so it won't boot up normally even on good battery, you will recover from flatbat flawlessly this way18:47
Arkenoii guess it is killed, so i need to coldflash probably18:48
DocScrutinizerthen you should snatch it as soon as constant white changes to flashing, or LCD lits up, and plug it to waiting flasher *immediately*18:49
rafael2kpeople, is it possible to install a firmware older then mine, lets say beta2 which allows aegis in a relaxed mode?18:50
DocScrutinizeras you only got like 60s until the main system trying to boot up will deplete battery again so much that CPU will stall18:50
DocScrutinizerno charging on defect system, no flashing a clean system on discharged battery18:52
DocScrutinizerdeadlock18:52
DocScrutinizeryou got an extremly short window after emergency charging dfinished where you could use N950 flasher to make it continue charging18:53
Arkenoiok! says bettery is low and it is now charging (while trying to coldflash)18:53
DocScrutinizerCOOOÖ18:54
Arkenoiand i should retry in a few minutes18:54
DocScrutinizerL18:54
Arkenoi(led still does not blink but i guess it is ok)18:54
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DocScrutinizeryup18:54
rafael2kDocScrutinizer: are you still using beta firmware?18:56
DocScrutinizer22-618:56
rafael2kdo you think it`s safe to re-flash to an older version (I'm with latest one)?18:57
DocScrutinizerit allows me to do my hw investigation hacking18:57
DocScrutinizerno, downgrading is not allowed18:57
rafael2kno?18:57
rafael2koish18:57
DocScrutinizerwill defintely not work18:57
rafael2khow dumb I was...18:58
rafael2k:/18:58
Arkenoiwaiting.. after a few minutes flasher still reports that battery is at 0%19:02
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Arkenoiafter a few months with n950 going back to n900 is painful, despite the much better variety of software available19:03
Arkenoiah, ok, now it is 2% so it is really charging19:04
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DocScrutinizercool19:09
DocScrutinizeryou actually made it19:09
SpeedEvilArkenoi: :)19:10
DocScrutinizerwhen exactly did you switch from wallcharger to PC+flasher?19:10
LilltigerIs there no Scratchbox for Windows?19:11
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DocScrutinizerLilltiger: all the ones that *don't* answer right now are probably those who use linux anyway and don't know about windows19:13
DocScrutinizer:-)19:13
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LilltigerDocScrutinizer: I normaly use linux as well, just a bit in a gaming addiction right now :p19:14
MohammadAG<Arkenoi> after a few months with n950 going back to n900 is painful, despite the much better variety of software available19:15
MohammadAGbelieve me, you'll get used to it19:15
MohammadAGI got an iPod to help19:15
MohammadAGwell, help understand how good the N900 is19:15
LilltigerBut as noone seems to try out XBMC on the N9 i figured id do it myself.. but to lazy to boot back into linux to set stuff up19:16
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LilltigerAlso, do anyone know if there are some work being done on the media player used in the browser on the N9, because it crashes alot, and also cant play all stuff, like svt play mobile streams cant be watched on it.19:19
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ArkenoiDocScrutinizer: i waited for led to dim, then tried flashing, it falied and i used -Owait-charging as it suggested19:23
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mtdanyone know if it's OK to change the tracker db from python/sqlite while tracker is running?19:30
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radiofreemtd: you mean using sparql?19:32
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radiofreeah, sorry, sqlite - wouldn't know for sure19:33
mtdradiofree: sparql would be cool, too.  I'm trying to play with the contacts (suggest merges & merge them) since I have tons of dupes19:34
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mtdradiofree: mbarisione's N900 merge plugin is my inspiration19:35
radiofreemtd: http://gitorious.org/+pymaemo-developers/harmattan-python/python-qtsparql19:35
mtdradiofree: right now the graph aspects of the tracker db are perplexing me, in case you know of any good sources for that19:35
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mtdradiofree: thanks, will check it out now19:35
radiofreemtd: if you run messaging-ui with TRACKER_VERBOSITY=3 you can see the queries it uses19:38
radiofree(in syslog)19:39
mtdradiofree: cool, thanks for the tip19:39
mtdradiofree: is there a good way to actually do that besides "killall messaging-ui ; TRACKER-VERBOSITY=3 messaging-ui"?19:40
mtdradiofree: actually if I run the store with verbosity = 3 I see the queries too, IIRC19:40
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radiofreemtd: you can also set it in ~/.config/tracker/tracker-store.cfg19:41
radiofreemtd: erm, actually, it's probably more useful for you to do all that on contacts19:43
mtdradiofree: yup, that's what I do now.  I will look more closely at them.19:44
mtdradiofree: sorry, I meant that in reference to the tracker-store.cfg19:44
mtdradiofree: thanks for the tips.  It's nice that I can watch this all myself, though I still find it hard to see the wood for the trees reading the cpp.19:45
mtd(as opposed to the source being closed)19:45
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Arkenoigreat! successfully unbricked and even found by data intact! now let's play with sowatch -- my metawatch arrived the same day i bricked the phone :-)19:53
abArkenoi, that seemed to be my case as well -- it drained the battery to 0% while I attempted to flash19:54
abArkenoi, once batter was up a bit, everything went fine. Though in my case even bootloader was missing19:54
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DocScrutinizerhmmpf, seems newer PR versions have a bug in "Birthday" calendar19:58
rantomYep19:59
rantomAnd a temporary fix: https://twitter.com/#!/alblurrow/status/12874151186413977619:59
DocScrutinizerIncredible Nokia is shipping N9 with this bug19:59
rantomI've yet to test though, I'll try later probably with the N95019:59
rantomDocScrutinizer: Indeed19:59
rantomI remember it working with beta120:00
rantomfrals: Thanks for the link20:00
DocScrutinizerbirthday calendar and esp notifications of pending birthday events and (missing) markup of birthday dates in calendar month view were worse enough in 22-620:00
DocScrutinizerseems Nokia thought it was so bad they better remove it completely for later PR X-P20:01
rantom:D20:01
DocScrutinizerafter all who would ever think to use his PDA/smartphone to keep track of firends' birthdays?20:02
rantomDocScrutinizer: I googled about it and it turned out to be an issue in another Nokia phone too, I think it was E61?20:02
DocScrutinizershame on you, Nokia QA20:02
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CorsacDocScrutinizer: I quite lack that on n900 I don't get a notification (for example at 12:00 on that day)20:03
rantomThat post was from 2010 so it's probably fixed by now20:03
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: hi!20:03
javispedrohelo20:03
DocScrutinizerCorsac: seems my N900 works better than the HARM calendar at least20:04
DocScrutinizerat very least I get a notice in my desktop widget there, together with all other pending events20:05
Corsacyeah20:05
Corsacbut I'd appreciate the same notification as the other events20:06
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DocScrutinizerok, no 'alram' - right20:06
Corsacan alarm, I mean20:06
Corsacyeah20:06
rantomDocScrutinizer: http://discussions.nokia.co.uk/t5/Software-Updates/Contact-birthdays-in-calendar/td-p/155067 it's quite old but there was an issue apparently in 2007 and 2010 too20:06
DocScrutinizersomebody must hate birthdays over in Finland20:06
MohammadAGjavispedro, can you have the FM Radio Qt lib ready when I get my N950? :P20:07
javispedromy plan was to try and do it this weekend, as I have some holiday on monday20:07
DocScrutinizerWHEN you get...20:07
MohammadAGjavispedro, no rush20:07
MohammadAGwhen I get my N950 is like, when PR1.4 is out20:07
DocScrutinizeryeah, no rush. It will get clearance delay for another 3 months ;-P20:08
javispedroby PR1.4, aegis will disallow use of X11 by apps20:08
MohammadAGI still have hope it'll be delivered on Monday20:08
MohammadAGjavispedro, N900's PR1.4 :p20:08
javispedrowho wants to bet which one is more probable? ;P20:08
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: please review johnwil's sms-cb work for compliance with CSSU, comments appreciated20:09
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spenappH5, ping?20:13
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pH5spenap, hej20:15
spenappH5, about the fast scroll component20:15
spenapis it possible to make it anchor in other place than the top of the page?20:15
pH5spenap, yes. the component should be changed to anchors.fill:listView instead of anchors.fill:parent20:17
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vadimqhmm, what's a good place where to buy a N9? I'm in Spain, and AFAIK it's not sold here20:18
spenapvadimq, Portugal?20:18
spenapexpansys also sells it20:18
pH5and if your Page has margins, set the bottomMargin of whatever is above the listView to the same.20:18
spenappH5, I'm checking it20:19
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vadimqand to top it off, Nokia closed the online shop. Wow. In freaking 2011, I have to haul my ass to a physical shop20:19
spenapyes, pH5, anchoring to fill listView works perfectly :)20:19
vadimqspenap: thanks, will check20:19
SpeedEvilvadimq: :/20:19
pH5great20:19
SpeedEvilIt's deeply annoying when that happens.20:20
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Arkenoiis it normal that metawatch does not sync time with the host?20:27
DocScrutinizererr you're on tab too low in my chantab list ;-P20:28
DocScrutinizerone*20:28
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DocScrutinizer/join #metawatch :-)20:29
javispedroArkenoi: are you talking about subminute precision, or larger?20:29
Arkenoijavis: i just did not set up time on the watch and it shows something completely different20:30
javispedro:S20:30
javispedroare you using my software, or what do you mean?20:30
GeneralAntillesSo, you have to completely unmount and disassemble modern microwaves to replace a stupid halogen bulb?20:31
GeneralAntillesWTF20:32
RST38hmooo javispedro20:32
DocScrutinizerLOL20:32
RST38hAny QML developers?20:32
javispedrohelo RST38h20:32
* RST38h has hit a wall with QML and is considering dropping it20:32
DocScrutinizerGeneralAntilles: actually something I planned to do since ages - disassemble a microwave oven to see what's realy inside20:32
spenapRST38h, while you can ask here, I bet you'll have more luck in #qt-qml20:33
RST38hnah, I do not want qml ideologues20:33
GeneralAntillesRST38h, what sort of wall?20:33
RST38hI need to solve a specific harmattan related problem20:33
javispedroDocScrutinizer: you'll let the magic fairies out!20:33
RST38hGeneral: QML import statement requires you to specify package version20:33
DocScrutinizer\o/20:33
khertanRST38h: i ve hit several wall with QML and currently trying html5/js20:33
DocScrutinizermagic fairies in my flat20:33
RST38hGeneral:Out N950 have got Qt.labs.components 1.1, while N9s got 1.020:34
RST38hGeneral: So, I can either release packages that work on N9s but fail on N950s, or the vice versa20:34
khertanRST38h: while qml while are higher, there are most smaller html5 wall20:34
MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, can't you just put a watercooling pipe in the microwave?20:35
RST38hkhertan: again, not giving a flying fuck about ideology ofthe whole thing. as far as I am concerned, it should have been QWidgets all along20:35
khertanRST38h: you should use only Rectangle, Button, and image .... it s qml20:35
MohammadAGreplace the water with something that glows when heated20:35
RST38hkhertan: and what am I supposed to do with rectangle button and image?20:35
khertanRST38h: an powerfull application :)20:35
spenaplol20:35
GeneralAntillesRST38h, shouldn't that be fixed with PR1.1?20:36
RST38hDoc: They finally started adding PCP to the water supply in Germany?20:36
khertanRST38h: make a choice, immature QML, or depecrated and unthemed QWidget :)20:36
RST38hGeneral: it got broken by PR 1.120:36
MohammadAGor best of both worlds MTF20:36
RST38hGeneral: Because N9s have not got PR 1.1, they got PR 1.020:36
MohammadAGQWidget is NOT FUCKING deprecated20:36
MohammadAGsorry, but people keep saying it is20:36
RST38hkhertan: QWidget.20:36
khertanMohammadAG: or deprecated mtf without binding :)20:36
DocScrutinizerMohammadAG: HAHA good point. Yeah GeneralAntilles why don't you just stick a neon light into the microwave, with 2 stripes of scotchtape?20:36
RST38hMohammad: that is their new marketing pitch20:37
khertanMohammadAG: yeah sorry qwidget is unthemed not deprecated :)20:37
MohammadAGkhertan, no offense, fuck python :p20:37
khertans/without/ without python binding20:37
Arkenoijavispedro: yours, is there any other?20:37
MohammadAGit's the slowest thing since toasters that made sliced bread good20:37
Arkenoiactually looks like it does not communicate at all20:37
RST38hMTF does look like the best choice for harmattan development20:37
Arkenoii paired and set up config20:37
khertanMohammadAG: yeah ... lol this is because you don't know how to program in python20:37
khertan:)20:37
MohammadAGnot really20:37
MohammadAGit's cause I know C/C++ :p20:38
Arkenoithen started the app and selected "start service" from the menu20:38
javispedroArkenoi: from what you ware talking I thought you were talking to the watch using the raw protocol or similar =)20:38
Arkenoibut looks like nothing happens20:38
* RST38h decides to give #qt-qml a try, even if for trolling purposes only20:38
khertanthe concept is do most of thing in libs which are c/c++ libs20:38
MohammadAGRST38h, one way is20:38
javispedroArkenoi: you have to write a configuration file20:38
MohammadAGprovide a C++ plugin20:38
MohammadAGif on N9, do this20:38
MohammadAGif on N950, do that20:38
khertanRST38h: good luck with #qt-qml20:38
MohammadAGmake it return a bool and import accordingly20:38
MohammadAGgood luck with #qt* in general20:39
javispedroArkenoi: see https://gitorious.org/sowatch/pages/Home20:39
RST38hAsked. Waiting for the fun to begin.20:39
khertanRST38h: i'm not sure but 4.8 give conditionnal qml import20:39
khertanit s maybe qt5.020:39
khertannot sure20:39
MohammadAG4.8 is not that big of a change20:39
khertanMohammadAG: but there is small improvement on qml20:39
Arkenoijavispedro: that's exactly what i did: paried, edited the config and started the app20:40
javispedroArkenoi: so are you sure the MAC on the config file is correct? ;)20:40
Arkenoii still see old watch homescreen with bt address and firmware revision20:40
RST38hActually, I have got an idea20:40
Arkenoiyep, double checked it20:40
khertanRST38h: are you using only qml ? or does there is a c part ?20:40
javispedroArkenoi: in which case, open a ssh session to the device, run /opt/sowatch/bin/sowatchd and hit me with the log20:40
RST38hWHY NOT INCLUDE BOTH PACKAGES? =)20:40
javispedroRST38h: that's how I thought it was supposed to be20:41
khertanRST38h: can you not write dynamically the import part in qml root object ?20:41
javispedroI mean, this entire import package version thing is OBVIOUSLY done to allow including both packages20:41
Arkenoijavispedro: as user or as root?20:41
javispedrothe fact that they didn't smells as a fsck-up20:41
RST38hjavispedro: bonk. bonk. bonk.20:41
javispedroArkenoi: user is fine20:41
* RST38h hits his head at the wall20:41
* MohammadAG whispers seductively, MTF, MTF, MTF20:42
Arkenoijavispedro: says it loaded watchlets and everything it fine, but exactly at the moment i ran it watch screen went blank20:42
javispedroArkenoi: you have a digital or analog watch?20:42
RST38hMohammad: WIll have to spend at least a week moving to MTF especially considering that MTF is completely incompatible with QWidgets20:42
Arkenoidigital20:42
javispedroArkenoi: is it still blank?20:42
Arkenoiiirc analog is unsupported anyway20:42
MohammadAGRST38h, what app is this?20:43
Arkenoiyes20:43
javispedroArkenoi: oh, send me the log20:43
RST38hOk, #qt-qml is not very helpful20:43
MohammadAGmoving from QWidget to MTF is piss easy20:43
Arkenoiwill try to reboot the watch20:43
RST38hMohammad: EMULib20:43
MohammadAGRST38h, you have the same underlying code20:43
MohammadAGyou just need to add the widget code again20:43
javispedroRST38h: MTF does have its own shared of weirdness, but I enjoyed the fact that is C++, and I also had a bit of experience with QGraphicsView20:44
Arkenoihttp://pastebin.com/6xpsrK0L20:44
RST38hMohammad: the whole config ui is in the freaking QML20:44
Arkenoihandling 0 watches is suspicious20:44
RST38hMohammad: Have to rewrite all that20:44
MohammadAGRST38h, change it to MTF20:44
khertanRST38h: http://confusingdevelopers.wordpress.com/2011/05/03/qml-how-to-not-crash-if-qtmobility-location-is-not-available/ <<< could interest you20:44
MohammadAGtell you what20:44
MohammadAGRST38h, point me at the code20:44
javispedroArkenoi: very, can you pastebin the config file?20:44
RST38hMohammad: Furthermore, have to rewrite app startup,event handling, etc20:44
khertanRST38h: nice work arround for import if plugin not available in the qml scope20:44
Arkenoijavispedro: it is exact copypaste of yours except the mac address20:44
javispedroArkenoi: 0 watches means it didn't even try to connect... no idea why your screen when white.20:44
Arkenoimay be just coincidence20:45
javispedroArkenoi: something is wrong, filename is wrong, path is wrong..20:45
Arkenoi~/.config/sowatch20:45
javispedro~/.config/sowatch/sowatchd.conf20:45
RST38hkhertan: thanks =)20:46
khertan:)20:46
Arkenoiah. i am idiot20:46
Arkenoiwill fix and try again20:46
khertanRST38h: i hope one day i ll found a workarround for syntax hilighting text in qml20:46
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: Arkenoi: concurrent instances running?20:46
khertaninstead of doing it in qgraphicproxywidget which have many glitches20:47
DocScrutinizerps aux|grep sowa20:47
javispedroDocScrutinizer: would show something different20:47
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Arkenoiworks, great20:47
javispedrosuch as "Unknown bluetooth error" ;P20:47
javispedroso screen went white means you are getting out of battery ;P20:48
javispedros/getting/running20:48
javispedronote: battery metter you can see by hitting topright button shows _phone_  battery, not watch.20:49
Arkenoihmm20:50
Arkenoiis there watch battery meter?20:50
MohammadAGjavispedro, would be nice if the watch could vibrate on phone app gone crazy20:50
MohammadAGanother thing20:50
MohammadAGdoes sowatch work on the N900?20:51
MohammadAGI need a metawatch :/20:51
javispedroMohammadAG: with Qt Mob 1.2, it could work20:51
javispedroachipa was porting qtm 1.2...20:51
javispedroof course, one would need to write a way to get notifications on the n950..20:51
javispedro*n90020:51
MohammadAGwe have that20:52
javispedroArkenoi: currently, there's an ugly way which goes like a) disable/kill sowatch b) hit topleft button c) read battery voltage on screen and do the math d ) restart sowatch20:52
MohammadAGI'm not sure I should buy the metawatch just because of my recent lost N950 issue20:52
MohammadAGwonder if shops sell this thing20:52
javispedroyou'd do better to solve the n950 thing first..20:52
MohammadAGI can't do anything except wait till Sunday20:53
Arkenoijavispedro: what is "proper" voltage for it?20:53
MohammadAGbut I don't feel like doing the same thing for the watch20:53
javispedroMohammadAG: and by the way, my commiserations20:53
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MohammadAGyour ammunition may be more useful :P20:54
javispedroArkenoi: around 4.1v charged, around 3.5 it cuts off bluetooth20:54
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RST38hOk, including BOTH packages20:56
javispedroMohammadAG: I'd send you my tazer, but then they'd "lose" it20:57
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RST38hjavispedro: send him 5kg of flour in an arabic-marked package20:59
RST38hjust to be sure, make several holes in the package with a needle20:59
MohammadAGjavispedro, send a vibrator, I'd like to see them lose that somewhere21:00
RST38hThey WILL21:00
Arkenoijavispedro: quite strange, shows 4.199 but goes off sponaneously after being disconnected from the clip :-( may be i got a faulty one :-(21:02
javispedroArkenoi: :(21:02
javispedroArkenoi: have you tried reflashing it?21:03
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Arkenoinot yet21:03
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Arkenoiah. i think the reason was clip contact was poor, and 4.199 was to mean value while plugged in to charger21:15
javispedrothat's not the case, usually.21:17
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ajalkaneHi... can't register as a publisher to Nokia Store. That's annoying. Anyone have that working in recent days?21:26
ajalkaneGetting "The website encountered an error while retrieving https://publish.ovi.com/register/approve_payment_terms. It may be down for maintenance or configured incorrectly."21:27
* RST38h sighs at Android21:27
RST38hOn the other hand, it is less of a clusterfuck than QML.21:27
* MohammadAG shouts MTF21:28
fluxhas someone packaged rsync for n9(50)?21:28
MohammadAGprobably, on rzr's repo21:28
fluxwhich would be.. ?21:28
MohammadAGhttp://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=421821:28
fluxthank you.21:29
RST38hThe Guardian: HP shutdown of webOS division said to be 'imminent'21:30
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RST38hjavispedro: and to add insult to the injury, they are experimenting with Win8 on the same WebOS tablet hw21:30
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ajalkaneGood thing Ari Jaaksi continued WebOS development full steam ahead21:31
RST38hWhere is he now?21:31
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ajalkaneI think his steam has not ran out yet21:31
fluxinterestingly its version of rsync depends on base-files (>= 4.0.1) but 3.1.osso2+3.1.10.osso45+0m6 is to be installed21:31
fluxso I guess those are compiled for n95021:31
* ajalkane checks Jaaksi's last twitter update21:31
fluxI sort of doubt that kind of depedency reaaaally exists in rsync21:31
flux(hm, maybe its daemon support needs to do something for that, then)21:32
* ieatlint wonders if we'll ever see nfc fully working on the n921:34
fluxwell, it was worth the try21:34
fluxinfobot, how does it not work fully?21:34
flux(ieatlint :))21:34
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ieatlinthttp://doc.qt.nokia.com/qtmobility-1.2/connectivity-api.html#known-issues-and-limitations21:35
ieatlintspecifically the NFC subsection21:35
RST38hjavispedro: "The Guardian: HP shutdown of webOS division said to be 'imminent'"21:35
ieatlintno tag type specific action significantly reduces what can be done21:36
javispedroRST38h: was all written in stone since the apothecalypse21:36
RST38hjavispedro:and I guess they are not open sourcing it. a valuable asset like that cannot be open sourced, better squander it21:36
fluxieatlint, hey, at least we get the magic levels for angry birds!21:36
ieatlintyeah, basic llcp works alright21:38
ieatlintbut it's slower to initiate a connection than symbian, and with tag read/write, it's slow and unintuitive21:39
javispedroRST38h: considering they have already "scorched" the tablet market for a while with the $100 touchpad, I really don't see why they couldn't opensource it.21:39
javispedrobut of course, not gonna happen.21:39
javispedrothat's the final destination of icd2 and some of the other components of maemo. nearest garbage can.21:40
* javispedro sighs.21:40
ieatlinthold a tag up, it vibrates, plays a jingle and shows a blue ribbon to say it was read -- but for application access, that means the read/write operation just begain, not ended, so if you remove the tag then, the read/write fails21:40
RST38hjavispedro: That is because you think like an engineer, not like a manager =)21:41
javispedrohey, I appreciate the compliment :)21:42
ieatlintthey might not be able to opensource it21:43
ieatlintit runs a propriatery commercial version of qt, for instance21:43
* RST38h still wonder where Ari Jaaksi is. Is he off to RiM now? =)21:43
javispedroieatlint: totally a roadblock21:43
javispedroyou might want to argue that it is like scorching the earth if they ever want to enter the market again, or similar stuff...21:44
ieatlintit is when it suddenly becomes a licencing discussion, and requires engineers to rework things to make it releasable21:44
ieatlintsuddenly it's pushing more money into a project that you've already killed off with no returns to shareholders for releasing it21:45
RST38hjavispedro: I doubt the word "want" is applicable to their current management21:45
ieatlintbut yeah, i have a $150 touchpad courtesy of hp here :)21:45
RST38hjavispedro: "likely to", "forced to", "might" are all better choices21:45
javispedronoone is saying to build a "complete product"21:45
ieatlintit's as slow as they say, but it has a couple swiping gestures reminiscent of meego21:46
javispedrobut there's a shitload of stuff that's fully developing inhouse, that's even already cleanup for public scrunity (e.g. because it was supposed to be a public API), and it's going to the dump.21:47
javispedro*developed21:47
* RST38h once again sadly notes that he world needs gnome for mobiles21:47
RST38hand ubuntu for mobiles too21:47
javispedroRST38h: did you pust gnome in a good light?21:48
javispedroyou must be in certain good mood! ;P21:48
ieatlintand solaris with twm for mobiles21:49
RST38hjavispedro: I mean, Gnome before gnomes went bonkers21:50
RST38hjavispedro: i.e. something intuitive and pleasant to use as opposed to their puny attempts to copy Hildon Desktop on 24"+ screens21:51
SpeedEvilI've come up with a theory.21:51
SpeedEvilThe latest developments in UI design are all because the leaders of UI projects of old are going blind.21:51
SpeedEvilAnd needing bigger fonts.21:51
SpeedEvilThey're also shaky, so can't hit little buttons.21:51
RST38hSpeedEvil: GOOOOD guess21:51
RST38hSpeedEvil: and senile two,can't handle more than one window at a time21:52
GeneralAntillesDeath to the Boomers21:52
javispedroand with reduced mouse precision and/or agility21:52
RST38hhence the switch from desktop metaphor to the huge task switcher21:52
javispedrootherwise can't explain the giant margins21:52
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SpeedEvilStiff necks - can't move up and down -> widescreen21:54
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GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, time to write your thesis21:57
RST38hSpeedEvil: Ok I have got a question21:58
RST38hSpeedEvil: In terms of your aging theory, how do you explain their idea of moving from Gnome Desktop to Gnome OS?21:58
SpeedEvilLarge amounts of LSD.21:59
javispedroRST38h: Blame lennart.21:59
RST38hjavispedro: But of course22:00
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RST38hjavispedro: Pretty much the only reason for this thing I could find online is his systemd becoming Gnome's dependancy22:00
javispedroEither way, not that I am much worried, I've already made my first xfce4 panel applet, to be used as soon as gentoo pushes me gnome3.22:01
javispedroit was also way easier than the way gnome did it... which is best described as "you are not going to understand it, just copy the boilerplate".22:02
RST38hOMG22:04
javispedroI love how they talk about the customization features of gnome-shell, than you can even write plugins in javascript... but if you want to do something that actually changes something functionally instead of recoloring things, like, say, a global menu bar, ...22:05
RST38hjavispedro: Well, C++ is another object of their mysterious hate, somewhere between users and Linus Torvalds22:05
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javispedroRST38h: there are enough reasons to hate C++, so I won't argue with that...22:06
RST38hjavispedro: not when you compare it to GObject model though...22:08
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javispedroI've been pondering learning perl as of late.22:18
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RST38hjavispedro: Latest research (by British scientists (tm)) has shown that PERL is about as efficient to program in as a language with random syntax.22:21
ajalkaneRuby is a bit like Perl but with sensible syntax. I had to learn Perl for work, and Ruby I learned for fun. It has the better aspects of Perl with good OO syntax.22:22
javispedrothing is that I made a small parsing script in Perl in about a few minutes despite having to look it up whether it was "print" or "echo"22:22
javispedroless time it would have taken me to look up the name of the regular expressions module in python =)22:22
ajalkanePerl is really good for few line scripts just like that22:23
* SpeedEvil loves awk.22:23
ajalkaneI was just about to say that with Perl you can forget about awk :)22:24
RST38hwait until you find about  // =)22:24
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M4rtinKwhat about Python ? :)22:24
ajalkaneIf you know perl then you don't have to know awk and sed. Although I still prefer sed for some things. But those things would be easily doable with perl too.22:25
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javispedro(anecdote: I made my original remark about wanting to learn perl because I was writing a sed snippet)22:25
ajalkanePython is nice... Ruby and Python are IMO equally good for a bit larget programs. I just like Ruby more, something about Python rubs me the wrong way.22:26
javispedrobtb22:27
javispedro*brb :P22:27
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RST38hMeanwhile: TSA has always intended to expand beyond the confines of airport terminals. Its agents have been conducting more and more surprise groping sessions for women, children and the elderly in locations that have nothing to do with aviation.22:32
RST38hFederally approved pedobears galore.22:32
* Arkenoi still does not understand why n950 has nfc castrated out22:36
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RST38hMghm22:40
RST38h"PHABLET" (C)Engadget22:40
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, clearly they can only be responsible if we give them MOAR POWAR22:49
ajalkaneWho needs NFC... We have Forever Alone for that.22:49
ieatlinti need NFC22:51
ajalkaneJust use Forever Alone. Bug status: WON'T FIX22:52
ieatlinthippies aren't as afraid of cell phone radiation these days, i need to show them my phone produces more kinds22:52
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miroslavHeya22:54
miroslavIs this where all the people hang out that got a N9 at the Qt DevDays? :-)22:55
* ieatlint stabs miroslav with a red dot22:55
mgedminsniper! duck!22:56
miroslavurgh22:56
* miroslav is dead :-|22:56
mgedminquick, grab his N9!22:57
miroslavDammit, where is it?22:57
* mgedmin already got one, at the Vienna Hackathon22:57
miroslavYo. I have a question. I have a N9 and a N950, and I cannot enable developer mode on any of them22:58
ieatlintwhat happens when you try?22:58
miroslavIt asks to download packages, then for additional dependencies, which I confirm. I then get "Can't complete the download… Try again?"22:58
miroslavGot the same on 3g network and on WiFi. Internet is working otherwise.22:59
miroslavAny ideas?23:00
jabiswith 950 that shouldn't be a prob as you can download the package using terminal (or so I heard) but with N9 it's useless since the devmode installs terminal & sshd23:00
svuorelaif(miroslav) { fail_install(); }23:00
petterinokia's server are not reachable for some reason (down or not available at your location (syria))23:00
miroslavsvuorela: No shit :-)23:01
miroslavpetteri: I am in Germany,23:01
miroslavjabis: Of course the N950 does not have Terminal installed, since it came with the final software.23:01
jabisI thought that terminal was preinstalled in 950 and you only needed to enable developer-mode in N9 for it - gee - I really shouldda gotten one -.-23:03
ajalkanemiroslav: I had the same issue on N950 when trying to install the individual modules. But did you manage to activate the developer mode?23:03
miroslavjabis: That was the case until the latest software version.23:03
ajalkaneAfter activating developer mode I had to try hitting Install many times before it started working23:03
miroslavajalkane: No, that is the problem. It always goes back to where it was before.23:03
ajalkaneMaybe it's the same problem. How long have you tried?23:04
ajalkaneTry doing it again and again in the span of couple of days :)23:04
ajalkaneThen contact nokia support if it still doesn't work23:05
miroslavok23:05
jabisping the repo with your desktop to see the packet loss of your connection23:05
miroslavI will let it retry a million times :-)23:05
ajalkaneThat's the spirit23:05
ajalkaneToo bad it can't be scripted23:05
miroslavWhat is the repo location?23:06
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miroslavAlso, how can I trigger the OTA update? The phones are running 34-1, that is outdated, correct?23:07
mgedminsettings -> manage apps -> update tab at the bottom23:08
ajalkanemiroslav: Go to Settings -> Applications -> Manage Applications -> Update23:08
mgedminthe repository is at https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com23:08
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mgedmin(according to apt-cache policy meego-terminal on my n9 anyway)23:09
miroslavHehe, and just this second the N950 suggested a device update :-)23:09
jabisdownloads.maemo.nokia.com is the server23:09
jabis*too late*23:09
mgedminthe one-click flasher is at http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/release/N950-39-5/23:09
mgedminin case OTA fails to work (like it did on my n950)23:09
miroslavOk, thanks.23:10
miroslavThe N950 is updating now.23:10
jabisremember that N9 doesn't have anything to flash against (at least yet)23:10
jabis*re-flash*23:10
jabisso if you brick it - you'll have a waiting game at hand23:10
miroslavOk, cross your fingers :-)23:12
miroslavBIAB23:12
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jabisthem bravehearts :D23:13
ajalkaneI read that there's a flasher for N9 using navifirm. I know nothing about that so no more comments about it23:14
jabisthere's a 34-1 image there, but try to flash an older one -.-23:15
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* RST38h solved the problem23:15
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jabisRST38h: which prob?23:20
abArkenoi, the NFC chip was not ready by the time N950 hw was fixed in stone, maybe?23:23
miroslavInteresting, "https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com/" give me an "Access Denied", that might explain why enabling developer mode failed. But why the error?23:24
petterii get also access denied23:25
jabisPING downloads.maemo.nokia.com (2.21.195.200): 56 data bytes23:25
jabis64 bytes from 2.21.195.200: seq=0 ttl=57 time=203.124 ms23:25
ajalkaneAccess deniee23:25
ajalkaned as far as I understand is normal23:25
miroslavShould that work, or are the devices connecting differently than a regular web browser?23:25
ajalkaneit doesn't allow normal http browsing23:25
jabisI said PING it :)23:26
miroslavI see23:26
jabisopen up cmd/terminal and type "ping downloads.maemo.nokia.com" without quotes ofc23:26
miroslavYo, that works.23:26
fralsyou need user/pass to access it afaik23:27
miroslavMeeGo Update working, it is at 2% now. Holding my breath.23:27
jabisthe time is of an essence here - if it takes too long to get a grasp of the server N9 surely gives up in due manner23:27
ieatlinti bet the issue will be fixed after the update23:27
ajalkanemiroslav: I don't recommend holding your breath. You'll die before it's finished.23:27
ieatlintperhaps the dev mode packages for 34-1 were deprecated and removed from the server?23:28
jabismost certainly didn't - just opened up one N9 today for developer mode23:28
ieatlintthe n9 is on a different software branch and may be hitting different versions23:28
jabismiro has both 950 and the niner and both refuse it23:29
ieatlintthey probably just decided that people who got their phones at dev days didn't need it23:30
miroslavI will retry when the N950 finished updating.23:30
miroslavThey where both outdated.23:30
miroslav8%23:30
ieatlintimportant off-topic note: canned air is flammable23:31
jabiswere there a one-click flasher and proper fw for N9 I wouldda started experimenting already -.-23:31
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miroslavThe 39-5 image is the one that is not yet released for the N9, correct?23:37
jabis34.1 is the one and only for N923:40
jabisN9 lacks a lot of love23:40
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* miroslav keels over and snaps for air.23:42
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