IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-10-26

clbrpcfe: it has a led blinking when connected, but it stopped after while (keeps blinking with other paired devices until it goes to sleep)00:00
pcfeclbr: thanks, that confirms what I think.00:00
pcfefirst to see if any hidd or similar is on the thing00:01
deramon my N9 I got my bt-keyboard paired, but no text input and keyboard light kept blinking as in trying to connect00:03
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DocScrutinizerbtw kudos to Nokia designers for finally implementing genuine naming in language selectors - like "english" "deutsch" rather than "english" "german"00:05
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DocScrutinizernot that this was any new to maemo, but I've seen too many OS/devices where you're lost when some funny person sets your device language to chinese or thai00:07
derammy old 1611 had that implemented way back then.. it even spelled some of those in cyrillic font...00:07
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DocScrutinizerof course you still face the problem to navigate thru the chinese menus to the lang picker00:08
deramthat used to be quite usual prank... basically everyone had to memorize the key sequence to change back to english00:08
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clbrwhat was the workaround for "installation interrupted" messages when activating developer mode?00:19
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npmDocScrutinizer: is said nicely named language selector available as a QML component?00:30
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GeneralAntillesWhoever post-processed h0pbeat's picture made him look about 55. <_<01:03
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T_UNIXis the nfc file sharing done via nfc itself or is an ad-hoc network created using it?01:44
javispedronot ad-hoc, but a PAN01:44
javispedrousing BT01:44
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T_UNIXjavispedro: which BT version?01:47
javispedroprobably negotiated01:48
T_UNIXjavispedro: I mean with respect to max. transfer rates/bandwidth01:50
javispedroI keep what I said :)01:51
javispedroif you would like to know the max BT version supported by the N9, it's 4.001:52
T_UNIXjavispedro: so it should do the wifi thing if the both devices support it01:53
javispedroI do not think that's the case.01:53
T_UNIXas according to 3.0+HS, which is included in 4.001:54
javispedroI do not think 4.0 mandates HS01:54
javispedroplus, like if it was possible.01:55
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T_UNIXjavispedro: I'm not very familiar with bluetooth.01:56
T_UNIXwikipedia says 4.0 includes high speed01:56
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: what is the BT chip for the N9?01:58
javispedro(if you have it around, otherwise, I'll try to look it up)01:58
DocScrutinizerI added it to the hw page01:59
T_UNIXjavispedro: <- says so as well01:59
DocScrutinizerit's the wlan chip afaik01:59
DocScrutinizerthe radio chip01:59
javispedroyes, but it's a different variant from the n95001:59
javispedroaiui at least.01:59
DocScrutinizeryes, the one is end digit 1, the other 2 or sth - N9 knows 5GHz02:00
javispedroah, not 402:00
T_UNIXis there a chance to borrow devices for a research contest?02:00
javispedroDocScrutinizer: funnily enough, none of the wl127x family claims BT 4.002:01
DocScrutinizeraka 802.11a02:01
T_UNIXor are all devices of nokia's supply already loaned?02:02
T_UNIXDocScrutinizer: does the high speed link work?02:02
T_UNIXDocScrutinizer: javispedro which timezone do you live in?02:03
infobotugt is probably Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
DocScrutinizerhigh speed link? no idea02:04
DocScrutinizernot even a N9 here to test anything02:04
T_UNIXif Nokia claims it's bt 4.0 compliant, it should, shouldn't it?02:04
T_UNIXno Nokia engineer around?02:05
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'm more like envy about your climate zone :-)02:05
DocScrutinizernokia engineers? HAH02:06
T_UNIXDocScrutinizer: I'm new to this channel, give me some time ;-)02:06
javispedroDocScrutinizer: the good and the bad thing about my climate is that yesterday was _the first day it has ever rained_ since I got the N950.02:06
javispedrotherefore, it  was the first day I realized how much does capacitive suck under the rain.02:07
DocScrutinizerwest coast?02:07
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javispedrotechnically east..02:08
DocScrutinizerweather forecast yesterday looked like levante with *lots* of rain, for the southwest02:08
javispedroI've said yesterday but I meant monday =)02:09
javispedroand I got to see the thunderstorm icon on my metawatch too02:09
DocScrutinizeryeah, we're in sync wrt that02:09
javispedrosadly, it was rather useless.02:10
javispedroonce I was completely wet then the icon changed to thunderstorm02:10
javispedropre that it was "cloudy"02:10
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javispedroT_UNIX: so, the BT chip doesn't say anything about 4.0, so forget about 4.0, it's 2.102:12
javispedroeither way, reading that page, I did not realize the differences between 2.1 and 4.0 were that minor02:13
javispedroit probably means one could implement 4.0 via sw patch02:13
javispedrothat includes the n950 too...02:13
T_UNIXjavispedro: yes. That's actually what my team was about to do for a contest02:13
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T_UNIXbut we need NFC and WiFi capable devices with an open system on it02:14
T_UNIXthat's why I asked for Nokia contact information02:15
* javispedro is rather unfound of stuff that uses the Wi-Fi radio02:15
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T_UNIXjavispedro: what's the issue for you?02:16
javispedroI remember that experiment with manets that Nokia did a few years ago, where they conveniently forgot that I usually want my Wi-Fi antenna receiving emails, not searching for potential nearby love partners or whatever02:16
T_UNIXXD omg!02:16
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javispedroNokia did ask for 4.0 certification (N9 only), so maybe they do plan to add 4.0 in a future update..02:18
T_UNIXwould be nice to see them integrating it with connman02:19
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javispedrono connman in harmattan02:19
T_UNIXah okay, didn't know that02:20
T_UNIXwhat does harmattan use for radio configuration?02:24
javispedroa propietary daemon called icd202:24
javispedrofrom the good ol maemo02:25
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T_UNIXI mean the 'proprierity' fact02:27
T_UNIXdoes it do a good job?02:27
javispedrosome might argue it's better than connman02:28
* javispedro hides02:28
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* javispedro knees on the corridor and shouts to the heavens "AEGIS, WHY???????"02:29
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javispedroDocScrutinizer: we can use that video in future ocasions when someone asks "whats the point of killing_aegis/usb_host/..."02:31
javispedronokia itself promoting something that the aegis security policy blocks on the N9, totally not ironic.02:31
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, do you have a .deb of the latest sowatchd?02:32
javispedroa moment02:32
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: WUT, that's been promoted by Nokia?02:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: see the uploader, NokiaConversations is the official nokia PR blog02:34
javispedroactually, didn't see this yet02:34
DocScrutinizerI'll ask for them paying royalties for using h-e-n02:34
* SpeedEvil posted that as a response.02:34
javispedro^^ hit link, that's where video comes from02:35
javispedro(put your googles though, the site hurts a bit)02:35
* javispedro adds that link to "Activities blocked by ..."02:36
javispedro number 8 ;)02:37
GeneralAntillesYou're the best!02:37
javispedroGeneralAntilles: still debugging why the UI start/stop buttons seem to be a noop on PR1.1.. probably need a restart :P02:38
javispedro(after install I mean... or manual invocation of the daemon via /opt/sowatch/bin/sowatchd )02:38
javispedro(yes, I optified it in case I ever submit it to Ovi)02:38
javispedrodid they really needed to add the crappy WP7 tiles to nokia conversations too? Not that I followed it much, but now I'm going to follow it even less...02:41
GeneralAntillesIt's gotta be clear that Nokia is a Microsoft subsidiary.02:43
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: updated this with the weather stuff:
javispedrostill didn't do much of the stuff I've promised.... but weather using accuweather should be working now.02:48
GeneralAntillesCan it pick up other watchlets or are they hardcoded02:50
GeneralAntilles(too lazy to look at source)02:50
javispedroas for the idle screen, they are hardcoded02:50
javispedrothe other ones aren't. but there aren't alternative ones, so...02:50
GeneralAntillesWeather SHOULD be working?02:52
javispedroupdate the config file though02:52
javispedroprevious version showed "No data!" and a generic cloudy icon iirc,02:53
GeneralAntillesYeah, so does the .deb you just gave me right now.02:53
javispedrothe new version will only show "No data" (no !) if either harmaccu is not in the config file, OR accuweather is gone wrong for some reason (easily recognizable beacuse the events view widget will also be broken)02:54
javispedroif it still shows the "!", kill it, it's the old one02:54
GeneralAntillesOops, installed the wrong .deb02:55
GeneralAntillesBackup backed that up02:55
javispedrobackup also backs the sowatchd.conf file, thankfully :)02:55
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* javispedro tries NFS Shift02:57
GeneralAntillesIt's boring02:57
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GeneralAntilles'course I've been playing Forza 4 all week.02:58
javispedroI've had no VGA card for nearly two weeks. At this point, I'm starting to find Solitaire extremely fun again.02:58
SpeedEviljavispedro: Nethack.02:59
javispedromaybe a good time to pick it up02:59
javispedrooh, now I get what GoF means.03:00
GeneralAntillesAlright, updated.03:01
GeneralAntillesNow I've got an empty space where the weather should be.03:01
GeneralAntillesYou mentioned something about the config file?03:01
javispedroGeneralAntilles: yep,,03:02
GeneralAntillesAh, I see.03:03
GeneralAntillesSorry, head cold. :P03:03
javispedrosadly, I have to go03:04
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FryeHmm, is there a tweak for the pulseaudio running after making a phone call.09:43
Fryesomehow the pulseaudios is stuck and eats up 45% cpu al the time after using the dialpad09:44
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DottiFrye: disable 3g09:54
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FryeDotti, thanks09:55
FryeI bet it's been known for ages and hopefully fixed in pr1.1 =)09:55
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MilhouseIs anyone able to make or receive *CALLS* with GoogleTalk in N950/PR1.1? And how do you remove or edit a google talk field in Contacts - seems impossible, and adding an invalid GoogleTalk services to a contact seems to cause the Contacts app to crash a lot...10:03
meceMilhouse, hmm I made some gtalk calls with 34-2 but don't remember if I have used it in 39-5..10:05
Milhousemece - would you mind trying again? Doesn't seem to work for me. I just reflashed with the OCF as my accounts were totally borked10:06
MilhouseAlso, is everyone else getting the notification higlighted with a green background when making calls?10:06
meceok. calling10:06
Milhouses/notification/notification area/10:06
FryeWas just about to say that I can try, but my sw version propably won't be of any interest in this case.10:07
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MilhouseFrye: I can chat to people, just can't call (and they can't call me)10:07
meceMilhouse, works fine.10:07
FryeYeah, I can try with the 34-1 if needed10:07
Fryebut I guess it's old news10:08
meceit set me to available when I dialed so it took a little while10:08
Milhousemece: that's very odd, no workie here10:08
meceMilhouse, and no you can't edit gtalk info on device.10:08
meceMilhouse, only merge/unmerge from other contact info10:08
Milhousemece: yeah, so if you add an invalid gtalk entry to a contact, it gets in a right state10:09
meceMilhouse, no idea. All my gtalk entries came from gtalk10:09
mecenever added one on device.10:09
Milhousemece: best not to, it's pretty buggy10:09
meceI don't intend to :)10:10
Milhousemece: did you upgrade to PR1.1, or OCF?10:10
meceactually I messed it up somehow first, then flashed 34-1 and upgraded10:10
Milhousemece: did you hack googletalk to work in beta2?10:10
Milhousemece: i wonder if that explains why calling is working for you10:11
meceI actually wrote the wiki entry on how to do it :)10:11
meceMilhouse, I didn't do it again. I just added my gtalk account and it imported the contacts10:11
meceso is there no phone icon in the gtalk field or does it just not work properly?10:12
Milhousephone icon appears, can't establish a call10:13
Milhousejust going to check if there's anything in syslog10:13
meceMilhouse, have you ever made gtalk calls? With anything?10:13
MilhouseN900, yes10:14
MilhouseJust got the Google Talk client running on my PC, can establish an IM connection to my N950 but the Call button is greyed out10:14
MilhouseHowever another IM connection to my N900 (different gtalk account) has the Call button enabled10:14
MilhouseEven thoughg the button is greyed out, clicking it shows the following message "You cannot call because is using chat in Google Mail or another chat program other than Google Talk."10:16
Milhouselots of diagnostic in syslog, but sadly nothing obvious as to why calls are not working10:22
MilhouseCalling the N950 from an N900, shows zero output in syslog yet the N900 shows "Call not established"10:23
ieatlintoh nice, the 39-5 ocf is out10:24
MilhouseSo nobody else has the notification area appear in green when making a call?10:25
ieatlinti do10:25
ieatlintat least, with a cell call, haven't tried a gtalk call10:26
Milhouseieatlint: got it with both - cell and (non-working) googletalk calls. weid, can't believe it's intentional10:26
meceMilhouse, sorry yes it turns green when making a call. blue when skype calling10:26
Milhouseah... ok10:26
ieatlintwhy is that hard to believe?10:26
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ieatlintnot a bad indicator methinks10:27
Milhouseieatlint: i never realised the colour meant different types of call10:27
Milhouseieatlint: maybe if it had been explained somewhere... :)10:27
mecegtalk seems to be same color as cell call tho. For some reason10:27
Milhousemece: yes, thats why i never twigged the colour signigied anything (not got skype working)10:28
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ieatlintMilhouse: for reference, just tested gtalk call10:30
ieatlintit works10:30
ieatlint(and it's a green bar)10:30
Milhouseieatlint: thanks. Wondering if it's the account I'm trying to call.10:31
ieatlintyeah, i'd try calling a different account10:31
ieatlintalso, if it matters, my test was from phone to a browser10:31
ieatlint(gmail logged in)10:31
Milhousejust logged into Google Talk (desktop) with a differet account, same issue.10:32
MilhouseWill try setting up another Google Talk account on the device... hope it doesn't destroy my contacts...10:33
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ieatlintthey should have a test account to call.. would be convenient10:34
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Milhouseok - different account is working!10:38
Milhousenow to work out why... :)10:38
ieatlintcan anyone else confirm/deny that the wifi hotspot app doesn't work on 39-5?10:41
Milhousemy usual gtalk account is a Google Apps domain account, wonder if that's why?10:41
ieatlintnope, my test was from a google apps account (on phone) to a google apps account on a different domain in a browser10:42
Milhouseieatlint: ok thanks for confirming10:42
Milhouseieatlint: how does the hotspot app fail, i can test it now if you like. just ran it, created a hotspot using my 3g connection... seems ok so far10:43
ieatlintthen you get farther than me10:43
ieatlintwhenever i run it, i get "Wireless network not allowed"10:43
Milhousehmmm... all seems ok here, just connected an N8 to the hotspot.10:44
ieatlintok, thanks, i'll investigate10:44
ieatlintit's a feature i really would benefit from10:44
Milhousewould swap you for google talk call capability! :)10:45
Milhousethough maybe that's my account anyway...10:46
ieatlinthah, a feature i never use10:47
ieatlinthmmm, a reboot on my n950 gets me past the original screen, but now when i try to start one, it says "can't start wi-fi hotspot\n can't create network - timed out"10:53
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ieatlintand now when i close the app, and try to restart it, back to "wireless network not allowed" :(10:54
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ieatlintheh, intersting, nokia has their own version of google streetview now10:58
clbrFTR: After a factory reset of a N9 I got "Installatoin interrupted" errors when reactivating developer tools. Package "sdk-connectivity-tool" was broken. Fixed it by going to and installing from there packages develsh, openssh and meego-terminal. After a reboot I could use the meego terminal to "ssh root@localhost" and "apt-get reinstall sdk-connectiy-tool", after that enabling developer t10:59
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dm8tbrtoo long line is too long11:00
clbr(lardman obviously had the same problem in the end of september, solving it through reflashing)11:00
clbrdm8tbr: sorry, really should start a blog somewhere11:00
dm8tbr" after that enabling developer t" and there it cut off11:01
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clbrdm8tbr: …. after that enabling developer mode through the GUI worked again11:01
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chouchouneis there a terminal application for the N9 ?11:06
sandst1chouchoune: yes. enable developer mode and you'll get a terminal. Settings->Security->Developer mode11:07
chouchouneok, great11:07
chouchouneit's not possible to have one in normal mode ?11:07
clbrchouchoune: installing seemed to work for me before developer mode was fully working11:08
clbrbut maybe some necessary stuff got installed before the error11:08
chouchouneclbr: installing what ?11:08
Mirvif anyone is interested in my geocaching compilations/complications, see my post at
clbrthe terminal app itself, no garanties:
deramclbr: isn't that older version than the one installed by develmode?11:11
clbrand update notification will popup automatically11:11
clbrharmattan is really slick in many regards11:11
clbrbut use at your own risk!11:12
clbris anyone working on a port of one of those openstreetmap/opencyclemap/tile base map clients from freemantle to harmattan?11:14
chouchouneclbr: thanks11:15
chouchouneI've activated the dev mode anyway11:16
chouchouneit will be usefull later ;)11:16
chouchounewhat security is downgraded in dev mode ?11:16
clbrchouchoune: you should change your root password immediatly11:17
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clbrand of course not forget it, seems not to be reset by a factory reset11:17
Arkenoigot my metawatch!11:18
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* dm8tbr is going to a casual meeting with some Metawatch people and 'finnish hacking community' next month11:21
dm8tbrtoo bad that I own a live-view ;)11:22
DocScrutinizersend me a metawatch then :-D11:24
Arkenoiand, oops, sowatch does not install -- serveral libraries like libcontextsubscriber are too old11:26
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Arkenoidoing dist-upgrade now :-)11:36
Arkenoiwill see if it helps11:36
Kaadlajkapt-get dist-upgrade wont work11:37
Arkenoiotherwise those packages are held back11:38
Arkenoimay it brick or what?11:39
meceArkenoi, you can try installing the pr package11:39
KaadlajkArkenoi: what device you have? N9 or N950?11:40
meceArkenoi, mp-harmattan-rm680-pr11:40
clbrarkenoi: there is a strange everything-meta-package. if you try to remove the facebook-stuff e.g. everything else will go, too (at least this is what apt-get says)11:40
abElop just introduced N9's body11:41
Arkenoimece: thanks11:41
Arkenoiwell, it was the same way on n90011:41
Arkenoiand dist-upgrade worked more or less though some people said it should not :-)11:41
abN9 body with WP7 and Qualcomm chipset - Lumia 80011:42
clbrab: including vendor-lockin11:43
ArkenoiHTC lets you change OS on your phone and Nokia thinks the sky will fall down if they do11:43
abclbr, sure, how he can miss that? ;)11:43
cos^ok, looks like the flasher mentioned in topic does nothing to my N950. any ideas?11:58
cos^Suitable USB interface (bootloader/phonet) not found, waiting...11:58
cos^only the white led lights up when i connect usb cable11:59
MilhouseWith PR1.1 on the N950, are twitpics now appearing in the feed view? eg. this tweet:!/nokia/status/129115595542237184 no picture for me12:02
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decibytedo you guys know if anybody has made some sort of lock screen music player control, like triple tapping to play/pause or onscreen buttons?12:23
Milhousedecibyte: when music is playing via the stock media player you get song details and navigation controls on the lock screen (N950, PR1.1)12:24
Arkenoimetawatch clip sucks. you are likely to find microUSB cable anywhere, but the clip you need to take with you.. :-(12:25
decibyteMilhouse: hmm... not on my n9. it says (...)PR_001 is that the same?12:26
Milhouseno, you're on older firmware I think12:27
decibyteokay. thanks. i guess i have to flash it when it get home then :)12:28
Hq`the last number is the variant, not the version12:28
decibyteHq`: the entire version is 10.2011.34-1_PR_001... which is?12:29
decibytei'm sorry if this is something i should ask google about insted.12:29
MilhouseThis is PR1.0, the launch version. Media controls on the lock screen came with PR1.112:29
MilhouseWhich isn't yet available for the N912:30
decibyteahh. okay.12:30
Hq`yep that's 1.012:30
decibyteany date for an n9 pr1.1 release?12:31
abdecibyte, "soon"12:31
decibyteab, haha. okay :) thanks.12:31
Arkenoidoes absense of nfc mean that we juct cannot unlock more angry bird levels?12:34
abArkenoi, forevealone is your friend12:34
abforeveralone, even12:35
deram*need more angry birds* why isn't the buy now button working...12:36
X-FadeArkenoi: Well, you can just unlock them in the .ini12:37
X-FadeArkenoi: But that feels a bit like cheating ;)12:37
Kaadlajkoh there is .ini somewhere :P12:38
abX-Fade, did you try that with Magic? It does not work that way, the levels call out for NFC at runtime. If I opened levels and played them, next time I launch AngryBirds Magic, I need to have Foreveralone active to access them12:38
X-FadeFor the nfc ids.12:38
X-Fadeab: I unlocked the other levels by just editing the ini.12:39
X-FadeOnly in the free version, where you need 3 nfc connects to get 3x4 more levels.12:39
KaadlajkI unlocked all the levels with "Magic" worked for me12:39
KaadlajkI just reflashed after that and have been too lazy to unlock them again, .ini files sounds more convenient :-)12:40
ieatlintam i the only one who thinks calling nfc "magic" portrays nfc negatively12:42
ieatlintlike, "we don't get how it works, it's like magic!"12:42
clbrieatlint: I refrain from thinking anything about this keynote12:43
SpeedEvilI don't get how it works - I'd need to read the protocol definitions and API properly.12:43
ieatlinti've got the full ndef specs in binders right here12:43
ieatlinti know how it works... it's no magic12:44
clbrieatlint: as I have faulty hardware maybe, is there any way to test NFC without a second NFC-device?12:44
ieatlintyeah, try and read an nfc tag12:45
clbrah, maybe at the metro station, they should have some there12:45
ieatlintit should twitch if you hold an rfid credit card to it12:46
ieatlintthe nfc antenna is at the top of the n9 on the back12:46
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ieatlintit might twitch with an rfid passport too.. it's the right freq, but i don't have an rfid passport to try12:46
wookHello :) i was wondering how to "reset" device to factory settings on boot?12:47
ieatlintwith either a passport or a credit card, if it does read, a blue bar will pop down from the top of the screen with an "nfc" icon in the middle, it will vibrate, and then almost certainly produce a popup that says "tag is empty"12:47
clbrnice, my identiy card made it twitching12:48
ieatlinton an interesting note, the sharing of pictures and contact cards will work via nfc with symbian nfc phones (c7/701/700/600)12:49
ieatlintthe symbian belle phones (701/700/600) can also send contact cards and pictures to the n912:49
abwook, settings -> reset -> restore settings12:51
awallin_so how long before someone installs harmattan on a lumia 710 ? :)12:51
wookAb, can't access to settings :D12:52
deramwow, got more levels to abirds with one card i almost forgot to own12:52
abwook, reflash12:52
Arkenoiwell, reboot. hope it won't brick12:53
wookAny other way, ab?12:53
wookCan i run shell from wallpaperscreen?12:53
Arkenoiwow! no more app screen rotation bug!12:55
wookWell, however, thanx for help ;) see ya12:55
matrixxArkenoi: yeah it seems to be away, noticed the same :)12:56
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Arkenoibut still reports 32-1, wtf? both "PR1.1" and 32-1 on the same screen12:56
abArkenoi, because you have flashed 32-1 and that info comes from PPA (or somewhere there), it is normal.12:58
Arkenoiand even more app names are now prefixed with "!!" :-)12:59
abArkenoi, had same issue with OTA upgrade. With it many l10n packages need reinstall12:59
abArkenoi, even English ones12:59
augustldid they mention anything about wp7 for the n9 at todays event?13:00
dm8tbrArkenoi: franken-install, probably your kernel didn't get upgraded13:00
abaugustl, no, why should it be so?13:00
augustlab: just a rumor13:01
dm8tbrArkenoi: the only plus is that in such a case someone was successful in reflashing with beta213:01
abaugustl, quite stupid and uninformed one.13:01
fluxI would be more interested in harmattan for the new hardware :)13:01
Arkenoidm8tbr, so the more proper way is backup, ocf and restore?13:01
augustlab: source was directly from nokia13:01
fluxbut I guess nokia has had a good track record in protecting their devices from os-level hacking13:01
abaugustl, WP7 does not support TI chipset13:02
* SpeedEvil imagines a happy world, where they give the specs and open the bootloader of the devices on launch.13:02
augustlab: ah :)13:03
flux - nice undercover campaign for n9 ;-)13:04
matrixxflux: indeed ;)13:05
ieatlintthe left one is photoshopped... where is the convenient/omnipresent windows button?!13:05
GeneralAntillesflux, yeah, love it.13:06
decibyteFrye: haha!13:07
GeneralAntillesSpeedEvil, we might've been headed there if MS hadn't subverted Nokia.13:07
ieatlintMS didn't subvert nokia13:09
ieatlintnokia sought the deal13:09
GeneralAntillesIf Nokia's board hadn't gone batshit idiot on us.13:09 having problems right now?13:09
ieatlintyeah, well... that's true :P13:09
Milhousef.m.c not loading - timing out13:09
augustlflux: nice one13:09
dm8tbrMilhouse: there are network problems for all of LF servers right now13:10
ieatlintone really wonders where nokia would be if they had stuck with meego13:10
Milhousedm8tbr: right, thanks13:10
ieatlintthe n9 would've launched earlier i bet... and we'd be looking at probably two new meego phones coming out in november instead13:10
GeneralAntillesThey got a glowing review from /ENGADGET/13:11
GeneralAntillesI mean, shit.13:11
Milhouseieatlint: probably not worth speculating, too depressing. i viewed the keynote via engadget, and couldn't help thinking that it could/should have been MeeGo up there, not something with freaking tiles.13:11
fluxieatlint, world would be quite different. for instance there wouldn't be tiazen or whatever it was called13:12
ieatlintGeneralAntilles: you mean the n9/meego or something else?13:12
GeneralAntillesThe N913:12
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GeneralAntillesI really think Nokia and MeeGo could've gone somewhere.13:13
ieatlintyeah... the woman who wrote the n9 review is a friend of mine... i'm not going to claim there was actual bias, but let's just say she isn't exactly pro-windows13:13
GeneralAntillesNo, true, but still.13:13
GeneralAntillesIt's really a quality product they've put together.13:13
ieatlintshe portrays the phone accurately and fairly13:13
ieatlintand it's an amazing device13:13
ieatlintcertainly has issues... from a consumer perspective, and especially from a developer perspective (aegis)...13:14
fluxI imagine eagis is nothing compared to what there is wp7 :P13:14
flux(or rather, what there isn't)13:14
ieatlintbut yeah, it's pretty (hardware/software) and fast13:14
ieatlintit's depressing... including a professional blow to me13:16
ieatlintnow all there is is meltemi13:16
sandst1flux: oh yeah. wp7 offers Huge multitasking capabilities. You can make a periodictask and update stuff for ~15-25 seconds every 30 minutes x)13:24
sandst1flux: Or. get <=10% of the CPU and 5MB of ram13:24
sandst1flux: or make a resourceintensivetask that you can run around 10 minutes IF you've got external power present, or >90% of battery x)13:25
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sandst1but well. who needs background processing anyway in a 2011's smartphone13:25
deramI just noticed accidentally, tat the N9 appswitcher show live vew of the program..13:25
SpeedEvilSo 2008.13:26
SpeedEvilDo I mean 2009?13:26
fluxannoyingly the web browser apparently stops way early to render when it's in the background13:26
fluxso when I open windows in the background, they won't be ready when I go to them13:27
Arkenoidoes ocf still kill builtin fat partition and backups?13:27
deramdoes the application actually know it is in background? could tile like behavior be coded to applications in n9?13:27
MilhouseArkenoi: Yes, it erases everything13:28
sandst1deram: yup13:28
Arkenoidamn it sucks. it bricked on _second_ reboot and i see no way to extract backups from there13:29
ieatlintsandst1: to me, wp7 will always be in my mind a form of cripple-ware13:29
ieatlintwhen your newest features are things like network sockets, you've got issues13:29
Arkenoi"Nokia" on the screen, led constanty lit and not responding to anything13:30
ieatlintbut hey, it only took a year to support that13:30
abArkenoi, with flasher you can force it to boot a kernerl/initrd you want13:30
FryeFor me the tiles look like messy flash-ads on a web portal =(13:30
deramyes.. same to me too..13:30
ieatlintand we all love managed code, so i'm sure happy that's all wp7 allows13:30
derambut on some level they have a nice idea in there somewhere13:30
Arkenoiab: is there a step by step instruction? i want it to enter mass storage mode13:30
FryeCan I get adblock for the tiles screen? ;-)13:30
sandst1ieatlint: indeed. a lot of sandboxed stuff gives me the same feeling..13:31
deramthe email application could render simpler view when background for instance..13:32
ieatlinti also love that the dev environment for wp7 requires i use windows 713:32
sandst1ieatlint: it's like j2me all over again. "let's have this secure managed model that keeps the apps in a box. oh, but we need to poke this hole here toallow x and this one for y"..13:32
MohammadAGbest thing about Nokia now, they ship immediately13:32
abArkenoi, follow similar way13:32
Fryeyeah, I use mac for Qt stuff13:32
ieatlintsandst1: yeah... :(13:32
MohammadAGworst thing, everything besides that13:32
MohammadAGthe N9-look-alike is sad13:32
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ieatlinti suppose, as an american, i just should point at all of you and laugh maniacally13:33
abMohammadAG, on a brighter note, I guess quality of N9 bodies will raise as they are used for Lumia production13:34
iekkuMohammadAG, but you have good information how to select a phone.... :P13:34
Arkenoi usb 1-1.2: Product: N950 (Update mode)13:34
Arkenoihmm why?13:34
ieatlintab: careful, those x and check icons break metro ui guidelines13:34
MohammadAGab, the extra button makes a difference13:34
ieatlintthose things need to be back and white only13:34
ieatlinterr, sorry, no ab, iekku  :)13:35
abMohammadAG, they build it at the same factory so N9 bodies undergo same process13:35
ieatlintab: are the n9s still in production runs though?13:35
abMohammadAG, of course, Lumia lives longer on the conveyer belt for one more punch13:35
Arkenoiab: hmm, will it work without removable storage?13:36
abieatlint, why do you think they are not sold? They are sold as we speak and produced there13:36
ieatlintnot sure what that means13:36
abArkenoi, just build good enough initrd to allow usb13:36
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abieatlint, Europe gets N9s from Salo factory which is used for Lumia production as well13:37
meceyeas N9 is still being produced13:37
mecethey produce according to demand13:37
abieatlint, the markets for N9 and Lumia are different13:37
ieatlintwhere do the chinese n9s go then?13:37
meceand demand is high13:37
abieatlint, ROW13:37
IcanCUany chance meego will be ported to te nokia lumia 800?13:37
ab"rest of world"13:37
meceElop said N9 has high demand in russia13:37
ieatlintwell, here's to hoping the n9 i'm expecting is from finland13:37
SpeedEvilIcanCU: It depends on the security.13:38
abieatlint, I think it is more of logistics optimization to have better margins13:38
meceieatlint, where did you order it from?13:38
IcanCUdual booting meego/mango sounds interesting13:38
abmece, he didn't say how many they pushed to Russia ;)13:38
ieatlintmece: not ordered, been promised one by a nokia manager13:38
meceIcanCU, I doubt it's going to be easy..13:38
IcanCUoh well13:39
mecethe 800 has less memory and different processor hardware13:39
ieatlintapparently the way to get an n9 was to show up at dev days in munich13:39
abIcanCU, security lock on WP7 phones is yet to be broken13:39
GeneralAntillesmece, they do not produce according to demand.13:39
meceieatlint, and have the correct color of the tag13:40
meceGeneralAntilles, no?13:40
GeneralAntillesmece, I can't get one. I want one.13:40
IcanCUthe N9 has NFC right? but the Lumia 800 doesn't? there wasn't a word on NFC in the presentation - only regarding symbian13:40
meceGeneralAntilles, ah heh..13:40
ieatlintcolor of the tag? i'm told you had to be signed up to the mobile dev track13:40
ieatlintis that the colour you mean?13:40
Milhousejust watching a video of the 800 and if you remove the SIM you have restart!13:40
meceieatlint, perhaps that's where you got the blue dot13:40
iekkui have been thinking about buying a n913:40
IcanCUits a very sexy phone and OS13:41
ieatlintmece: i got the tip off on friday about that :)13:41
abIcanCU, NFC was in relation to S40 devices13:41
ieatlintjust couldn't make it to munich :(13:41
iekkumaybe i just use my n95013:41
meceieatlint, are you at qtdd?13:41
ieatlintsadly, no13:41
petteriwp7 does not support nfc13:41
ieatlinti will be in san francisco13:41
IcanCUthats a bummer13:41
petterinot reallly13:41
deramNFC should be coming to all phones if they are tinking any use for it to emerge in near future13:41
meceiekku, I really want an N9 even with my N95013:41
mecepretty expensive tho..13:41
iekkumece, i have been thinking the same13:42
FryeI like te N9 even with the bugs on the sales sw13:42
ieatlintmece: agreed13:42
Corsacsame, except I don't even have an n950 :)13:42
FryeIt's still by far the best phone I have used13:42
meceiekku, I just love to hold the N9 tho. It's just so sleek13:42
FryeAnd yes I did have N90013:42
iekkumece, my boss tolds me to use n9, but i have said i use n950 until i got my own n9 ce13:42
petterihey you guys owning n950, have you got any apps ready for us mortals ;)13:42
iekkunot me13:43
ieatlintsure, but it's useless unless you're in the US13:43
ieatlintor canada13:43
ieatlintsame difference13:43
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iekkui'm just a error manager, not developer13:43
IcanCUi'd love to see a good nfc app for the N913:43
mecepetteri, my stuff isn't ready really, but I use tweedsuit and qlister daily.
matrixxpetteri: I have yammer client if you need one :)13:43
ieatlintIcanCU: a tag writer is coming13:44
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ieatlintso says a big banner at qt dev days in munich13:44
mecepetteri, I plan to put them in the community app "store"13:44
Fryebtw is there a stock ticker available that would show the status on notification screen?13:44
petterimece: where is the community app store?13:44
abhm, there is number of android ports to WP7 devices so there might be a hope.
IcanCUhmm cool13:45
abI wonder if BB5 is there on Lumia13:45
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jkk_(@puhuri) N9/800 - 3.9" / 3.7" - 854x480 / 800x480 - 1Ghz ARM / 1.4Ghz Qualcomm - 1Gb / 512Mb - 16|64Gb / 16Gb - Touch / HW btns13:46
mece3.7" weird..13:47
Corsacwell, 800 is touch too13:48
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mecepetteri, work in progress13:48
petteriok, might be better to just drop other devices and support only n913:49
X-FadeAnyone who wants to prepare his app for Community Apps, please check these instructions:
macmaNis anyone here using n950 with bluetooth DUN?13:51
X-FadeI'll update the wiki once the DDOS finishes :)13:51
iekkupetteri, n9 is running meego harmattan... not meego13:51
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meceX-Fade, there's a ddos?13:51
X-FadeWe'll be starting testing the submit process hopefully this week.13:51
MilhousemacmaN: Probably using the wifi hotspot instead?13:51
meceX-Fade, cool, thanks. I think I'll tweet that information.13:51
macmaNright, but BT should still work13:51
X-Fademece: yeah, LF OSU space is getting hammered.13:51
petteriiekku: yes, I know13:51
Arkenoiab: is there a prebuilt one? i am a bit afraid to mess with those things13:52
meceX-Fade, damn.. but why?13:52
X-Fademece: Will post on the forum to request some developers to help test.13:52
X-Fademece: No idea, they have ddos-es a few times a week.13:52
meceseems like such a weird target13:53
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Arkenoiquite strange why does my n950 enter update mode on boot and stays there13:53
X-FadeBtw, don't expect the submit process to run smooth at the first go. The backend is very complicated, needs a lot of checking :)13:53
* lardman passes jugs of coffee to X-Fade in preparation13:54
X-FadeBut it would already be good if people would add screenshots, icon and description to their package in OBS.13:54
X-FadeSo we can test with that :D13:54
meceX-Fade, I haven't even gotten my apps to build on obs yet, so I probly won't be able to help testing right now13:55
Arkenoii just want to force it to mass storage mode to extract my files13:56
X-Fademece: Well, start simple.13:56
meceX-Fade, it doesn't get more simple than qlister2 :)13:56
meceX-Fade, but anyway, I'll try to get things sorted asap13:56
X-FadeIf anyone wants to have his account enabled on community obs, please let me know.13:56
lardmanqml question: rending video frames from a C++ QDeclarativeItem widget exported to QML, what's the best bet: draw pixels/pixmap in paint (not ideal at all, but I guess it would work); XVImageSink; OpenGL?13:58
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abArkenoi, not for N95014:00
abArkenoi, it is all runtime, so you load kernel and initrd in RAM and that's it14:01
mecelardman, ... would you like me to pretend I know how to do that? :)14:01
lardmanno, thanks for offering though :)14:01
mecelardman, Imma do it anyway: XVImageSink sounds most high tech, but opengl sounds fastest, so I'd go with opengl.14:02
lardmanXVimagesink requires that the "widget" has an actual window, I'm not sure whether that's true for QML "widgets"14:02
Arkenoi..and how do i build suitable initrd? where do i get all necessary binaries and stuff? it might take several hours to bring things together14:03
Arkenoii doubt n900 one will fit14:03
Arkenoiand scripts need change too14:04
Arkenoidevice names are different etc etc14:04
Arkenoiah, i just give up. my GoF2 savegames are not valuable enough and everything other is on the cloud.14:05
Arkenoiare you sure there is no way to skip eMMC erase with OCF?14:08
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meceArkenoi, did you try to flash kernel only with flasher or something?14:11
Arkenoiwell, i have /tmp/selfextract.dudVKG/ with ocf contents now14:12
Arkenoithere is img.bin and emmc.bin14:12
Arkenoii guess i should try flasher with img.bin only14:12
meceArkenoi, don't know anything aboutthat. Would be pretty cool if it worked tho :) Keep us posted.14:13
sandst1Arkenoi: flasher -f -F img.bin should leave emmc as it is now and only flash the rootfs14:13
Arkenoisandst1, will try that now14:13
IcanCUim looking for an app that will perform programmable actions when a certain nfc tag is read14:15
IcanCUlike send an sms14:16
IcanCUad a date to calendar14:16
IcanCUgo into wifi mode14:16
IcanCUthings like that14:16
IcanCUnfc could be a nice alternative to gps in many situations14:16
IcanCU4square check ins..14:17
ArkenoiError claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy14:18
Arkenoii wonder what's wrong with it14:18
fluxarkenoi, do you perchance use a any virtualization systems?14:18
meceArkenoi, something else hogged it14:18
Arkenoiflux: already disabled it..14:19
Arkenoiflux: sh*t. how can i reliably prevent them from messing with usb?14:21
fluxarkenoi, well I guess it depends what you're running14:22
fluxif one removes virtualbox kernel modules and all processes, that should be enough..14:22
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Arkenoiflux, i did, yet something stuck14:25
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fluxarkenoi, maybe it's broken somehow. reboot without it?14:28
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Arkenoiif i do modprobe -r cdc_phonet, it sends ape-algo image14:29
Arkenoibut then it stucks on the second stage14:29
abArkenoi, what flasher version?14:29
abbeta2 was bad14:29
Arkenoithe one from OCF archive14:30
Arkenoilatest one14:30
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Kaadlajkare you running flasher as root? just making sure...14:31
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captainiglooah cool my answer is in the topic :)14:34
captainigloothanks !14:35
FryeHmm, I guess there is no way of restarting a process in N9 without going to developer mode14:35
Fryeat least Terminal says kill -HUP is not permitted14:35
SpeedEvilroot can't kill users processes IIRC14:35
FryeI'm not root atm14:36
FryeTrying to do something to the pulseaudio runaway14:36
Fryedon't want to restart the whole device =)14:36
deramand user can't kill other users processes14:36
Fryebut I guess I'll just install the restart application for now14:36
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sandst1Frye: does pulseaudio -k work?14:37
Fryelets see14:37
Fryepermission denied14:37
FryeI guess I need to get to root somehow14:37
Fryeand that'll require the dev mode I think14:37
FryeAnyone have any idea when the pr1.1 might be out for N9?14:38
sandst1Frye: you've got Terminal, but no dev mode??14:38
Fryeye =)14:39
FryeHq's term14:39
sandst1aaa :)14:39
FryeNah, suck it. I'll switch to dev mode anyway at some stage14:39
Fryeso why not now14:39
* Frye goes find some howtos about that14:39
sandst1Frye: Settings -> Security -> Developer mode14:40
deramisn't it now safe to just do that, since root login in ssh is disabled by default14:40
FryeNo need to look anymore14:40
Fryeofc enabling developer mode restarted the device so can't try the pulesaudio -k now.14:43
Fryebut it'll happen again soon =)14:44
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Arkenoiso something is definitely messing up with my usb, wonder how can i detect it14:51
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Arkenoinew high speed USB device number 20 using ehci_hcd14:54
Arkenoishould it be that way?14:54
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Venemo_N950I saw Nokia's wp7 devices on da nokia developer site...14:54
Arkenoiah, likely to14:54
Venemo_N950my reaction was LOLWTF14:54
Arkenoiso how it seems to fail:14:55
abArkenoi, make sure you don't have cdc-ether or cdc-phonet14:55
Arkenoii do14:55
Arkenoishould i blacklist it?14:55
abArkenoi, I blacklisted them14:56
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Arkenoiflashed kernel but failed on rootfs :-(14:58
Arkenoibb5_rdc_cert_read failed14:58
Arkenoinow got warning blabla and yellow triangle14:59
abArkenoi, ah, same issue as I had. Cold flashing.15:00
ArkenoiSuitable USB interface (phonet) not found, waiting...15:01
ArkenoiERROR: Unable to enumerate USB buses!15:01
ArkenoiERROR: Failed to change protocol15:01
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Arkenoiit refuses to flash rootfs15:11
ArkenoiUpdate content failed to verify against cert: SW certificate not updated15:11
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M33g0Newbiei want to remove one folder e.g /home/user/.config/appname15:16
M33g0Newbiewhile application is uninstalled15:17
M33g0Newbieanyone know how to do that? how to append rm -fr /home/user/.config/appname macro in uninstall procedure?15:17
M4rtinKmodify the uninstallation packaging scripts15:19
M33g0Newbieyes thanks15:19
M33g0Newbiebut which scripts exactly15:19
M33g0Newbiesorry for bothering15:19
M33g0Newbieim new and kind of hurry15:19
M33g0Newbiei have15:20
Arkenoiwell, now it seems to be hard-bircked15:20
Arkenoi 2495.189211] usb 1-1.2: Product: Nokia USB ROM15:20
Arkenoi[ 2495.189215] usb 1-1.2: Manufacturer: Nokia15:20
matrixxlike I said on #meego15:20
Arkenoiand no flashing15:20
M33g0Newbieok so postrm should be just placed in qtc_packaging/debian_harmattan ?15:20
M33g0Newbieshould i define this script anywere else?15:21
M33g0Newbiei can just put rm -fr ... there and thats it15:22
M33g0Newbiethank you guys for help15:22
xarcassM33g0Newbie: don't forget to request "UID::user" capability for the "INSTALL" context in the .aegis file15:22
lardmanand make sure you rm -rf the right path....15:22
xarcassit would be a good idea to kill an app first. for that you may need CAP::kill capability as well15:23
M33g0Newbiexarcass requset UID:.. hmm15:23
M33g0Newbieactually my aegis file is empty15:23
matrixxyeah, they are always a bit dangerous, we all remember the bumbblebee case lately15:23
xarcassM33g0Newbie: then it's time to write a couple of lines there15:24
cos^X-Fade: i'd like to use community OBS (as here
M33g0Newbieyou think that postrm will not work15:25
M33g0Newbieok i will try15:25
Arkenoiany ideas how can it be fixed?15:26
xarcassM33g0Newbie: it won't work without needed capabilities, believe me15:26
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Arkenoidamn it really sucks15:29
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* Arkenoi wonders if it can be reparied and how15:29
RST38h"Nokia's Brave New World is (almost) Finn-free" (C)TheRegister15:29
RST38hMoo, ab15:30
abRST38h, meeh15:30
ArkenoiRST38h, just bricked ny 950 trying to reflash15:30
Arkenoiusb 1-1.2: Product: Nokia USB ROM15:30
Arkenoinow it is just usb rom15:30
Arkenoiand does not flash anymore15:30
cos^Arkenoi: well, my N950 does not even show as a USB device15:31
cos^and on other channel i heard about 4 other bricked N95015:32
RST38hab: On the funnier side, they ARE NOT releasing it in the US this year :)15:33
GeneralAntillesHow is the Lumia shittier /and/ heavier?15:33
RST38hGeneral: You are not getting Lumia, so stop salivating over it =)15:36
RST38hGeneral: DocScrutinizer will be able to buy himself one for Christmas though :)15:37
elpuriRST38h: that also caught my eye15:37
elpurithe fact that they didn't announce an US launch15:37
elpurikinda weird because it's microsoft's home territory, us english locatization is complete for sure and wp was touted nokia's way back in to the us market15:38
elpurii guess they're just having hard time with the carriers15:38
elpuri(as usual)15:38
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deramI'd guess it is hard to manufacture enough to satisfy operators on xmas sales15:40
abGeneralAntilles, Lumia in Spain are usually quite fit :)15:41
abelpuri, they did explicitly announced U.S. market products will come 2012Q115:42
abArkenoi, cold flash it using older flasher (3.11 or so)15:43
elpuriab: oh ok i missed that part then15:44
elpurithe stream was breaking once every minute15:44
elpuribut still odd why not right away15:45
cos^i'm trying follow these instructions:
cos^but build fails at tail: cannot open `debian/changelog' for reading: No such file or directory15:46
abelpuri, perhaps, new hardware will be mass-production ready by that time. Lumia 800 is not really competitive with iPhone 4S on HW side15:46
cos^should the whole debian directory be copied?15:46
abnew live stream15:47
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RST38hab: forget iPhone, how is it better than Android?15:48
Arkenoiab: there is 3.12 on the web, will it fit?15:48
Arkenoiand 3.5_215:49
Arkenoiab: can you share a copy?15:49
DocScrutinizerArkenoi: dunno - maybe helps:
DocScrutinizeralso coldflashing may actually be needed, when NOLO got nuked15:56
meceAt least some N9 news :)
meceanyway tata o/15:57
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ArkenoiWaiting for ASIC id...15:57
Arkenoiusb_bulk_read: Numerical result out of range15:57
ArkenoiERROR: Cold flashing failed.15:57
SpeedEvilOMG! A new colour.15:58
SpeedEvilThat'll make hte people in the countries that can't buy it _so_ happy.15:58
deramwhere is the yellow version16:02
cos^ok, copying changelog to debian still doesn't help16:02
deramCMYK and now even colorles16:02
cos^surprise that meego docs are wrong >:-/16:02
FryeIf it comes in bronze I might have to get me another one =)16:02
SpeedEvilMetal loaded polycarbonate is quite available and does look great.16:04
SpeedEvilIt'd add somewhat to the weight - but...16:04
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decibytewhat about transparent? i really wanted one of those cool, transparent nintendo gameboys back then.16:04
deramcircuitboards back then were much more interesting to watch16:06
decibyte're right16:06
* SpeedEvil bemoans the lack of beautiful components for art.16:06
SpeedEvilOne of these.16:08
SpeedEvilBut this is _ugly_16:08
SpeedEvilblack To92 transistors.16:08
SpeedEvilAnd nasty little uninteresting diodes.16:08
SpeedEvilFor examples of what (was) available.16:09
SpeedEvil'open source' 'china'?16:10
RST38hSpeedEvil: What are you making of them? =)16:10
SpeedEvilYou mean there is more than one person there that's read the GPL?16:10
SpeedEvilRST38h: See the transistor clock link above.16:10
RST38hab: keynote by Jim Zemlin of Linux Foundation!16:10
RST38hab: I guess he will be speaking of Android again =)16:10
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RST38hSpeedEvil: looks like a pretty standard Soviet D9 diode. What about it?16:11
SpeedEvilRST38h: Compared to the later silicon glass package, it's lots more visually interesting.16:12
RST38hSpeedEvil: the second one is a gold-coated transistor16:12
SpeedEvil - visually boring16:13
RST38hSpeedEvil: the second one is not a transistor and I do not remember D9s or their western counterparts in gold, ever16:13
SpeedEvilErr - yes, of course the second one isn't a transistor.16:13
RST38hSpeedEvil: Ah, you are looking to put these as gates...16:13
SpeedEvilThe above clock has lots of diodes, in boring packages, and transistors ditto.16:13
RST38hSpeedEvil: I can give you an idea, if you want16:14
SpeedEvilAs well as boring capaciors - could replace with polystyrene in some cases.16:14
RST38hA really cheap one too, but not boring16:14
abAhahaha. I wonder if Lumia 800 uses the same screen as in N916:14
RST38hab: Apparently it does16:14
ab480x800 is way smaller than 480x85416:14
deramnot same screen, as it is different size16:14
RST38hab: Does Microsoft support screen sizes other than 480x800?16:14
RST38hderam: they could have hidden parts of it, WP77 apparently only supports one screen size16:15
abso this 54 pixel stripe is under "windows buttons"?16:15
deramthat could be16:15
RST38hSpeedEvil: Replace some of these diodes with really small color LEDs16:15
SpeedEvilRST38h: Perhaps.16:15
abat least, you don't need to write driver for GPIO  for WP kernel :)16:15
deramand so there would be button backlight available...16:15
RST38hSpeedEvil: you can do it randomly if you wish, then the whole thing will look like a starfield16:15
SpeedEvilRST38h: I'd like to do a '1970s' version.16:16
RST38hSpeed: You will have to drop the LED display then16:16
SpeedEvilPolystyrene caps, 7 segment glas tube filliment displays, germanium diodes, gold coated transistors.16:16
RST38hSpeed: and the display drivers will have to be way bigger than these16:16
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RST38hab: It doesn't use GPIO or what? =)16:17
abRST38h, if it has touchscreen underneath, it could be treated generally as an area of the screen without any additional drivers16:19
DocScrutinizerI recall konttori askingif any hacker already found the 16 extra pixel rows of N916:20
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abDocScrutinizer, that was different story -- we've got rid of 16 pixels stripe because it was considered at that point that next generation displays standardize on 480x854 and thus require us to tune in UI beforehands so that not to cause issues for 3rd party developers16:24
abso on Lumia 800 it is 64 pixel stripe16:24
abperhaps may serve as storage area for nasty apps, 480*64*2 is 60Kb16:26
* DocScrutinizer idly wonders if Konttori also would be interested in him checking N9. Similar to prodding done so he applies for N95016:26
X-Fadecos^: What is your username?16:26
abor even more if 3 bytes per pixel16:26
cos^X-Fade: vranki16:26
DocScrutinizerSeems Ronan and Quim are not that much interested after all16:27
X-Fadecos^: Ok, you should be able to login now.16:27
cos^X-Fade: thanks16:27
lardmananyone remember offhand how one queries a gst pipeline (or component thereof) to find the width/height of a video stream?16:27
RST38hab: Ah got it16:27
RST38hab: Did you see them showing N9 running Gallery at the beginning of the keynote?16:28
DocScrutinizer~seen ronan16:28
lardmanah, for reference16:28
Arkenoiso no hints for me on how to unbrick?16:28
RST38hab: Apparently assuming that it will pass as 80016:28
abRST38h, yes, they were showing a lot of N9 pictures16:28
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abRST38h, and Elop was talking about N9 at the same time16:28
macmaNso whats up with this name "Lumia" meaning "hooker" in spanish16:28
abLumi is snow in Finnish16:29
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RST38hab: So did or didn't he mention N9 during keynote?16:29
abRST38h, he did16:29
M4rtinKX-Fade: were there any major changes concerning COBS or the Harmattan target recently ?16:29
deramyeah, and lumia is one plural form of snow in finnish..16:29
macmaNMilhouse: BT DUN works. there's something strange delay issues going on with the connection, where my blueman is too impatient or something.16:30
X-FadeM4rtinK: A few minor ones, why?16:30
abRST38h, at around 10:3216:30
derambtw, that form can be used in centense "Snows of the last season"16:30
M4rtinKX-Fade: I have encountered a few packages that built just fine previously but don't build any more without any changes to the source16:31
X-FadeM4rtinK: Can you give me a link to a build log?16:31
M4rtinKor packages that build in one project but not in other16:31
M4rtinKok :)16:31
sandst1ab: isn't the pixel stripe in lumia <64 pixels..? The wp7 softkeys take some of the pixels on the bottom of the screen + 800 pixels on top of that16:31
absandst1, if the screen is the same as on N9, it is 480x86416:32
sandst1ab: yes, but aren't the wp7 buttons constantly on the bottom of the screen?16:33
M4rtinKX-Fade: first case: built fine some time ago:    now fails:
absandst1, they are on the bottom of the device near the screen end but formally available screen resolution is 480x800. That means there is 64 pixel stripe underneath those buttons16:34
absandst1, sorry, youtube does not work for me.16:34
sandst1ab: just wondering if those buttons are inside that 800 pixels. if so, the apps have <800 pixels available16:35
absandst1, that is if we asssume the screen physically the same as in N916:35
M4rtinKX-Fade: seccond case: builds fine in home:MartinK:gtk    fails miserably in home:rzr:harmattan  :
absandst1, no, apps have 480x800, the buttons are considered part of body16:35
X-FadeM4rtinK: Yeah, that is the qemu issue.16:35
X-FadeM4rtinK: We upgraded qemu to 0.15, but that was causing trouble.16:35
X-FadeIt started segfaulting.16:36
sandst1ab: and if the screen is 480x864, and 800 of that goes to the apps, some of that goes to the buttons, doesn't that leave <64 pixels? :)16:36
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absandst1, you can't see what's on the area covered by buttons but buttons only need touch sensor themselves, not the screen memory16:37
absandst1, so I'm talking about the memory buffer at that stripe while buttons covered it on top16:37
aball that is for fairly low-level programming, of course.16:39
M4rtinKX-Fade: So you downgraded it back again or found some other solution ? :)16:39
X-FadeM4rtinK: Yeah, we went back to 0.14.116:40
sandst1ab: ok. IIRC it's possible in wp7 to have the three keys as normal softkeys (instead of hw ones), which would make them part of the screen resolution16:40
absandst1, I think these are totally different ones16:40
abor it is just an override of hardware ones16:41
abas WP7 requires HW buttons16:41
M4rtinKX-Fade:OK, I'll try a rebuild then. Should it fix both issues or just the first one ?16:41
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X-FadeM4rtinK: At least the first one. The other I have no idea...16:43
sandst1ab: ah yes.. it was just a rumor that mango would remove the req of having hw buttons..16:43
SpeedEvilFrom a usability POV - it'd be really nice if you could have texture over the softbuttons.16:43
SpeedEvilThough I suppose that doesn't work with capacitive16:44
M4rtinKX-Fade: shouldn't an OBS package just always build of fail regardless of the project (of course provided the dependency packages are the same) ?16:47
X-FadeM4rtinK: Well, yes, but there are a lot of other things that can influence it.16:49
X-FadeAnd in this case it is timing, as when this built the server tools were different.16:49
M4rtinKwell I have even wiped all binaries and triggered a rebuild of all packages in two of my repositories16:50
M4rtinKand go the same result as before - build in one, failed in the other16:51
X-FadeM4rtinK: It can't have built as nothing builds atm.16:51
X-FadeAs the scheduler is restarting.16:51
M4rtinKwell, that was about a week ago16:52
X-FadeYeah, that is not today :)16:53
M4rtinKok , I'll do it again then :)16:54
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X-FadeM4rtinK: clucene now built fine.17:12
M4rtinKX-Fade: yep, was about to report that :)17:12
Wirtadoes anyone know how I can import a contacts file that was exported from n950?17:12
M4rtinKfingers crossed on the libgtk build :)17:13
M4rtinKbut I don't have much hope in it as there is probably some other root issue...17:13
X-FadeM4rtinK: If that is the case then you can do a local build to check if it works there.17:14
tommaWirta, do you mean vcards?17:15
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M4rtinKX-Fade: I'll try that (but it failed with the same immcontext error about a week ago :) )17:16
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WirtaIn contacts you have "Export" -> "File" options that creates a nice contact file17:22
Wirtabut in import functions you only have "Another device" "online service" "SIM Card"17:23
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Stskeepswhoring themselves out17:40
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iekkui think it's good name17:43
RST38hOf course, it is Spanish who are to blame here.17:46
RST38hThey should not have spoiled such a good name!'17:48
M4rtinKX-Fade: so that second issue still persists, at least in an online COBS build:
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khertanHello !17:51
X-FadeM4rtinK: Yeah, qemu is a pain.17:51
khertanAnyone here notice lost of network on n950 ?17:51
X-FadeM4rtinK: We haven't been able to find one version which is stable.17:51
khertansomeone know what can be the reason17:51
tommaWirta, you can import them by opening those files18:01
khertan... fallback to n90018:06
khertanrah ... noone have idea why n950 lost network ? and still notice full strenght ?18:08
dm8tbrkhertan: are you on pr1.1?18:10
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dm8tbrI've noticed that in some rare cases IP networking seems to stall. Not something that happened often enough to be able to reproduce it though.18:11
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khertandm8tbr: yep ... pr1.118:14
khertanbut it s not just ip problem ...18:14
khertanas phone didn't works too18:14
dm8tbrah, complete CMT stalled. never had that18:15
khertandid you know a way to reset it ?18:15
khertanwithout reboot ?18:15
khertanor monitoring it ?18:15
khertannothing in dmesg18:15
dm8tbrCMT is completely separate from the linux space. no idea18:17
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khertanjust found that in syslog :  usetimed : WARNING Unknow cellular activity: -118:18
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khertannped[1325]: i2c_write : Remote I/O Error18:19
khertansyslog is full of Unknow cellular activity :-118:20
MohammadAGreplace it18:20
khertangnié ?18:20
khertanyou thinks it s hardware ?18:20
khertaneven if it s works after a restart ?18:21
MohammadAGI think the post office lost my N950 btw18:21
MohammadAGkhertan, reflashed CMT?18:21
khertani update from beta2 then upgrade OTA18:21
MohammadAGtried reflashing?18:22
khertanand after that i reflash with the oneclickflasher18:22
khertanbut while i thinks it s improve18:22
khertanit s start again18:22
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DocScrutinizer>>nped[1325]: i2c_write : Remote I/O Error<< ERRR18:24
khertanyep ... don't know what this error mean18:24
DocScrutinizernothing good anyway18:25
DocScrutinizerI2C-error is something that probably never should happen18:25
khertanindeed : google answer me : Non-Primary Explosive Detonator (NPED) ... nothing good18:26
DocScrutinizernfc what's nped18:26
dm8tbra daemon for npe, whatever npe is?18:26
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DocScrutinizernetwork policy enforcer?18:27
khertanmce-io:c mce_close_file(): Failed to close '/sys/class/i2c-adapter/i2c-2/2-004b/wait_for_gesture18:27
khertanhum ...18:27
DocScrutinizertouchscreen I2C error18:28
khertanicd2 : Duplicate Filter <- full of error like this18:28
khertanbme timer executed too early18:28
DocScrutinizerthat's normal18:28
khertan... hum ... houston ... we got a problem18:28
DocScrutinizerwell, "normal" as in usual18:29
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khertanseems working now18:30
khertaneven if i got cellular unknow activity -1 in log18:31
khertani ll retry a flash this evening18:31
DocScrutinizercan't comment on "cellular unknown activity" - no SIM. Might be as "normal" as bme timer logs18:31
khertanthis i m good for asking a new one to nokia18:33
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khertanthx for help18:41
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infobot:), DocScrutinizer18:57
infobot- Uptime for purl -18:57
infobotNow: 3m 47s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux18:57
infobot1: 59d 8h 41m 19s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Sun Nov 14 18:39:57 201018:57
infobot2: 57d 3h 9m 23s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Fri Jun 26 20:39:27 200918:57
infobot3: 36d 20h 47m 14s running infobot 1.5.4 (SVN) -- linux, ended Tue Aug  4 17:38:59 200918:57
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kkitodo you know how to add a google account that is not ?19:16
kkitoI get an unknown error when trying to add a google account :(19:18
iekkucan the google account be something else than
iekkudidn't even know19:22
abRST38h, so what can you use that 480x64x3 stripe for? It is global area and if it is accessbile, it would be accessible to all applications. What good can you do with that?19:25
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matrixxhas anyone does custom themes for harmattan?19:44
kkitoiekku: yes, a google account can be something else than, but it seems that the current fw (n950) has problems setting up a google account that is not :(19:45
kkitoperhaps there is a workaround to bypass this :/19:45
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faenilso sad...20:06
faenilback from qtdd11 :(20:06
javispedrohi faenil .20:06
faenilmoo javis :D20:07
RST38hBREAKTHROUGH: Avira anti-virus labels itself as spyware20:08
faenilis that true?20:08
faenilAvira has the one ProActive protection out..20:08
RST38hTheRegister reports it20:08
javispedrohey RST38h20:08
RST38hmooo, javispedro20:08
javispedroAV vendors are more stupid every day20:09
RST38hjavispedro: Lumia,yeah? =)20:09
berndhsno just more honest20:09
javispedroah, well.20:09
RST38hThey are selling snake oil and everyone except for the management knows it20:09
faeniljavispedro: you got lumia?20:10
RST38hAs well as the fact that there is no fully automatic 100% proof antivirus solution20:10
DocScrutinizerwell, I heard one of the antivir is actually spyware, and police being the real boss of the company20:10
javispedroRST38h: never heard that word with the supposed meaning. I've heard it a few times in a rural context meaning bright, or lively, in a pseudo-positive sense. But I doubt any urbanite would know it is a spanish word.20:10
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faenil_damn connection20:11
javispedrotherefore: nonstory.20:11
javispedroalbeit it would have been amusing.20:11
RST38hjavispedro: "lumia" for "bright" is understandable etymologically20:11
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javispedromaybe... not really an expert.20:12
faenil_why you talking about lumia?20:12
DocScrutinizeryeah, why?20:12
DocScrutinizermaybe aegis is not evil enough by now? :-D20:12
javispedroturns out the "official" spanish dictionary says lumia is "prostitute"20:12
javispedrobut see above :)20:13
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RST38hjavispedro: also adds "colloquial20:13
macmaNlumia is definitely just a whored off n920:13
FryeNice1 macmaN20:13
faenil_I like it anyway, very nice phone, N9 with WP720:13
DocScrutinizermacmaN: citation needed20:13
faenil_oh and by the way, just coz I'm very happy about it, I have won the drawing at QtDev Days :D20:14
faenil_I've won a Kindle :D20:14
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faenil_I was so happy when I heard my name xD20:14
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faeniland it was the day of my birthday! :D 24th20:15
faenilso that sounded like magic :D20:15
javispedropssh :)20:15
javispedrohappy birthday either way :)20:15
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berndhsit was rigged :)20:15
faenilthanks :D20:15
faenilthe winner was another guy20:16
faenilbut he didn't show up20:16
faeniland the extracted another card out of the box20:16
faeniland it was me xD20:16
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faenilI got a free N9 too :D20:19
faenilthe day after :D20:20
faenilso I was pretty lucky actually :D20:20
iekkufaenil, christmas is early this year? or just a birthday presents and christmas is coming?20:20
faeniliekku: that's what I thought :P20:20
iekkuor they together?20:20
faenilis Santa Claus here at QtDD or what? XD20:20
faenilyeah...I'd go for that one :D20:21
faenilwe were at the keynote20:21
iekkubut i think you have earned them :)20:21
faeniland they said "we're going to choose a colour now"20:21
faenilthey started a random thing, which selected the blue color20:21
faeniland all people with the blue card (the color of your card depended on the sessions path you registered to)20:22
faenilgot a Free N9 :D20:22
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DocScrutinizernow THATs kinda insane20:22
javispedroI am really impressed about --
javispedrothought they were just dumping the wp device but it seems that it is really cheaper and more lowend20:23
faenilwell, otherwise, quim gil had told me I should have gone and talk to him, to see if he could do anything about that :)20:23
faenilit is cheaper, but...20:23
faenilless NFC...20:23
javispedrothat's exactly what I mean.20:24
Ans5inew symbian20:24
Ans5ii liked some of the stuff like xbox etc. and the online storage20:24
faenildoes anyone have any suggestion about what to do with my new Kindle? :D20:24
faenilIt's not the latest one, it's the one with the physical keyboard, but it's got 3G + WiFi, + WorldWide FREE 3G Connection!! :D20:25
javispedroeven the OMAP is potentially comparable to that Qualcomm.20:25
faeniljavispedro: you, but the gpu is probably better in the qualcomm20:26
DocScrutinizerclone the SIM and send a copy to me20:26
DocScrutinizerworldwide free 3G data, WTF?!20:27
faenilwith some exceptions...which are not specified there...20:28
faenillike, Germany..-.-20:28
DocScrutinizerI'd be surprised to find a SIM that allowed worldwide roaming for calls20:28
DocScrutinizersome sat carriers may have a pretty good coverage on GSM roaming20:29
faenilok here's it20:29
faenilTravel the globe and still get books in under 60 seconds. Kindle Keyboard 3G uses GSM technology — the most popular mobile wireless standard — with wireless coverage in over 100 countries and territories, such as Australia, Hong Kong, Germany, Japan, Norway, Spain, South Africa, the United States and many others20:29
DocScrutinizerstill they rely on fill in via SAT in those areas where they didn't find a roaming partner20:29
faenilbit, it doesn't work here in Munich...-.-20:30
DocScrutinizerso much for "worldwide GSM" - ok, next20:30
faenilthe package only says 3G20:31
DocScrutinizerworldwide roaming on 3G, meh. Even more unlikely20:31
faenilman, that's what it says.. :D20:32
faenilNo Monthly Wireless Bills No monthly wireless bills or commitments. Amazon pays for Kindle Keyboard 3G's wireless connectivity so you won't see a monthly wireless bill20:32
DocScrutinizersure, and here in Europe you pay roaming fees of like $$$/MB by only accidentally booking in to italy's carrier when living in Germany next to the border20:33
DocScrutinizerso I *bet* Amazon happily will pay all that, worldwide20:34
faenilI know man, it sounds so strange...20:35
faenilbut that's what they advertise it for..20:35
faenilwhat's your opinion instead20:35
DocScrutinizerI guess Amazon has some config page where you can move your account home network to one of arbitrary 100 countries20:35
DocScrutinizeralso you're aware this "3G" is for sure limited to access to Amazon site *only*20:36
faenilthere's the "Browser"20:37
faenilI can connect to the shop everywhere20:37
DocScrutinizerI can't see this fly20:37
faenilyey :D20:39
faenilit doesn't work in germany, but it should work in Italy :D20:39
faeniloh wait20:40
DocScrutinizerwhatever, tell me when you're able to google wirelessly, for $=nuttin, worldwide. Would for sure be worth the purchase of the kindle then, as any similar SIM card / contract is more per month than any such device of Amazon20:41
SpeedEvilThey're making web browsing only wifi IIRC20:43
DocScrutinizerwell, that doesn't count here, really20:43
DocScrutinizereach idiot can make $random_app for free over wifi20:43
DocScrutinizeras it's you paying for the wifi<->internet connectivity20:44
javispedroI do know some people that do this20:44
javispedrowas never interested in the details but discussions are plenty on the www20:45
DocScrutinizerdoing what exactly?20:45
DocScrutinizerwifi sharing communities20:45
javispedrothey thether using the amazon 3g20:45
faenilit's real 3g web browsing, check this out20:46
DocScrutinizerso it *might* be more interesting than I thought20:46
faenilsome countries get webbrowsing for all websites20:46
faenilthe rest only Wikipedia and Amazon store20:46
DocScrutinizerthought as much20:46
javispedroDocScrutinizer: aiui it's not real internet though, but rather you have to go through their proxy20:46
DocScrutinizerthey even have a browser optimizer20:47
DocScrutinizerwith a *huge* cache20:47
faenilyeah probably :)20:47
faenilwell, I guess they're already paying A LOT to give this service20:48
faeniland I guess how long this will last..20:48
DocScrutinizersth like "render in 'the cloud', mobile only gets the preprocessed data"20:48
faenilbut it's one year now I think, or smthg like that20:48
DocScrutinizerkinda like vnc to amazon server with real browser20:49
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* SpeedEvil ponders linking to his proposal ages ago for something like the browser optimies20:50
DocScrutinizerso no matter what you are thinking you are browsing at in that kindle, your 3G connection is always to, and carriers won't probably allow anything else20:51
javispedroSpeedEvil: at this rate someone's going to bring your idea to the patent office first ;P20:51
DocScrutinizeriirc apple has a similar deal for their OTA "SIM activation"20:52
javispedroand BB used to have20:52
faenilwhat do you mean Doc?20:52
faenilstill, you can visit all websites20:52
faenilwho cares if you do that through or throught the direct website20:52
DocScrutinizertry freenode IRC web portal ;-P20:53
faenilI'm on IRC webchat :D20:53
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javispedroor e.g. they'd ban you if you try to do anything interesting over port 8020:53
DocScrutinizerfaenil: for sure not via 3G20:53
DocScrutinizerfor free20:54
faenilwhat's the problem with it?20:54
DocScrutinizerit TOO FRIGGIN EXPENSIVE for Amazon20:54
DocScrutinizerand won't earn them a dime in return20:54
faenilI meant why IRC web portal...I know that 3g is expensive :P20:54
rafael2kpeople, is the right place to the SDK? it's still at beta2!20:54
javispedrorafael2k: go complain to Nokia...20:55
rafael2kjavispedro:  :/20:55
rafael2k<- still not able to compile things locally in the N950 because of this..20:55
* RST38h wonders why anyone would go into anal slavery to Amazon20:56
RST38hJust get yourself a generic Android tablet *or* a generic Chinese-made ebook reader.20:56
DocScrutinizerfaenil: Amazon hosts the true "browser", has full control over what it will allow/forward and what not, and I can't see Amazon paying GB/month of OTA data via 3G that's not caused by paid content giving them return of investment20:57
RST38hDoc: They are selling you .pdf files for $11 a pop. I think they can afford shelling out a bit of this money for 3G.20:57
DocScrutinizerdata volumes at carriers aren't for free, neither for you nor for Amazon nor for anybody else, as carriers want to make profit20:58
faenilDocScrutinizer: so what do you think they'll do?20:58
RST38hDoc: Especially by signing a wholesale deal with a big corporate cellservices provider20:58
faenilDoc: anyway, it's still something've got complete (kinda) worldlike (kinda) FREE internet access20:58
DocScrutinizerthey'll make sure your data volume is well below where they start to pay more to carriers than you pay to them20:59
javispedroRST38h: not a .pdf but a PalmOS database file (.azw) ;P20:59
DocScrutinizerand they are free to choose whatever restrictions they consider opportune to achive this goal20:59
npmIs this correct?? -- "Store the application icon in /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/icons/ . "
rafael2kother doubt with the new firmware, how to disable aegis?21:00
RST38hjavispedro: OMG21:00
rafael2kow at least put it in the relaxed mode21:00
RST38hjavispedro: this qualifies as cruel and unusual punishment. How do they deal with the 64000-byte size limit? =)21:00
rafael2kI cannot even chmod the sources.list.d files...21:01
DocScrutinizerso while my deal for 3G data is like "10€/month for 500MB" right now, your deal with this Amazon worlwide "free" 3G data is completely on the mercy of Amazon21:01
RST38hrafael2k: That is for your own good!21:01
rafael2kRST38h: eheheheh21:01
javispedroRST38h: that applies to records only, there's also a 64000 limit of records, so the real max size is larger21:01
javispedrothe format is basically an evolution of the palmdoc, which palm later based their "streaming" pdbs specification upon21:02
RST38hjavispedro: 4palgigabytes?21:02
javispedroexactly :)21:02
* RST38h wonders what made Amazon choose this particular format21:02
javispedroRST38h: mobipocket21:02
rafael2kRST38h: I know, same thing that some say to me about don't drinking wiskie. But I do prefer drinking it!21:02
RST38his it in any way related to .mobi format?21:02
javispedrovery much21:03
rafael2kreally people, no workaround for disabling aegis yet?21:03
RST38hnot yet21:03
javispedrorafael2k: go complain to Nokia too21:03
RST38hkernel sources out, best esotheric scientists in the universe are working on building a usable kernel from them.21:03
javispedroI am in too much of a good point to post another rant to the Aegis thread, but I guess I will do once mood drops21:03
javispedros/good point/good mood21:03
rafael2kwell, I'll wait a little then21:04
javispedrofor the bad news you mean =)21:04
rafael2kthe usb of my N900 broke and now the N950 is my primary phone. So I have no way out21:04
javispedroRST38h: basically, .azw = .mobi21:04
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faenil_stupid hostel wifi21:07
faenil_logs out every 10 mins21:07
SpeedEvilHostile indeed.21:07
DocScrutinizerrafael2k: there'll never be a real "workaround" to "disable aegis" in HARM. You're free to basically switch OS, if only by booting your own "non-HARM" kernel and watch the HARM userlend blow chunks21:07
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faenil_the Nemo image for n950 is coming soon...21:10
faenil_we could spend massive amount of time on that21:10
faenil_and make it usable21:10
faenil_and the N9 Moslo is coming soon too, I have seen the community edition on the N9 at QtDev Days21:10
faenil_problem is the guy who takes care of that is on holiday21:10
faenil_that's why it's taking longer21:10
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SpeedEvilscuba-diving with the fishes?21:11
DocScrutinizerwhat's the use of MOSLO anyway?21:12
rafael2kpeople, just to make sure, the before present "aegis relaxed mode" available in beta1 and beta2 is not available anymore, is that right?21:12
DocScrutinizerNOLO boots MOSLO in "open mode", so no way back to HARM proper without reflashing21:12
DocScrutinizeractually in my book MOSLO is for booting *other* OS, not for HARM21:13
faenilSpeedEvil: no clue, that's what I was told by the guy who had the CE on N9 :D21:14
faenilDoc: exactly, we're booting Mer in fact...21:15
DocScrutinizerrafael2k: well, it gets harder each release, and by now is probably not available at all, until this may change again *maybe*, *eventually*21:15
faenilwith a UX on top of that21:15
faenilwell, they are21:15
rafael2kRST38h: DocScrutinizer: thanks for the anwsers people, now I understand the situation better...21:15
faenilMer is only the core...21:16
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javispedrorafael2k: I suggest that if you have complains about the situation, make them known.21:17
javispedroas this does not seem to be getting better. rather, worse.21:17
rafael2kjavispedro: I'll do this. Where do you suggest me to publish such report?21:17
DocScrutinizerI think Nokia selling this N9 as a FOSS linux device is a bait-and-switch, a red herring21:18
javispedrorafael2k: If I'd knew, you'd find a message from me on such a place... ;P21:18
DocScrutinizernokia care might be the right addressee21:19
rafael2kI'll try to message nokia21:20
DocScrutinizerthough HARM technically is linux and FOSS, in practice it's like you won a $million at some lottery and they tell you the money is on this and that bank account, the account even is on your name, but they don't give you any credit card or credentials or whatever to actually *access* this account21:21
japploI like to build a source code with mad. The problem is, that the libXtst-devel is missing.???21:24
DocScrutinizeryou could however ask the lottery management to send you a check to pay something, and they may or may not do that21:24
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rafael2kJust email quim gil21:29
rafael2klet's see nokia's answer21:30
javispedroquim != nokia these days, aiui, he's more of a Troll right now ;)21:32
javispedro(in the Trolltech tense, if there are any ignorants around)21:32
faenilDocScrutinizer: you can install Debian on the Kindle xD21:34
javispedroDocScrutinizer: it's interesting to note than one N9 that used my kernel build didn't show the warranty void warning21:34
DocScrutinizerI still doubt that's all correct21:35
DocScrutinizerneeds some confirmation21:35
javispedrowell, I am waiting for your N9...21:35
* DocScrutinizer too21:35
javispedrobut in the meantime, why'd he lie21:35
javispedromaybe on PR1.0 they'd forgot to put the warning =)21:35
DocScrutinizeractually I wait for *some* mail confirming any of my mails made it to either Ronan or Quim21:35
faenilI could try that, if my N9 wasn't still sealed in my bag21:36
javispedrowell, you don't have warranty either21:36
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: nobody lies. It's just he maybe looked some nudy at TV while the warning popped up, or whatever21:36
javispedroit's not like it doesn't stay on the screen for a whopping 10 seconds =)21:37
javispedrodamn cable TV pr0n networks21:37
DocScrutinizerunless e.g GSM TZ adjusts the system time, whatever21:37
*** zz_gri is now known as gri21:37
faeniljavispedro: I think the N9 we were given are retail ones...21:37
faenilwith warranty and stuff21:38
javispedroyou have a receipt? =)21:38
grifaenil: girlfriend unsealed mine and changed background to some flowers ... have to get it back before it's too late!21:38
faeniljavispedro: no but I have imei xD21:38
faenilgri: lol gri, naughty girl!21:39
faenilyou should have paid attention to it!21:39
iekkugri, hah, you haven't teach her21:39
faenilFor you who don't know it, gri had a red card, so he could not get an N9, but he went to Quim Gil, and Quim gave him one :D21:39
grimy attention was at the food :/21:39
iekkui don't touch my "wife's" (i call my husband as a wife) phone or computer21:40
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: do you think the rootfs&kernel&whatnot/NOLO could get updated while keeping cmt FW/rev-tag untouched?21:41
iekkunot even for practical jokes21:41
faeniliekku: did not know you were a she :D21:42
faeniliekku : need to remember that, lol :P21:42
iekkuas i don't want him to do any kind of stuff with my phones and computers21:42
javispedrofaenil: they didn't hand out N9s for all assistants? O.o21:42
faeniljavispedro: what do you mean by assistant?21:43
iekkufaenil, i think i am physically she21:43
iekkumentally, not21:43
faeniliekku: good :)21:43
* javispedro short circuits for a moment21:43
faeniliekku: right ;)21:43
DocScrutinizerfaenil: even that was an assumption of you21:43
faeniljavispedro: lol21:43
javispedrofaenil: they didn't hand out N9s for all attendees?21:43
faenilDocScrutinizer: which one?21:43
faeniljavispedro: nope21:44
grihalt of the attendees21:44
faeniljavispedro: only those with blue cards + those who got it from quim21:44
javispedrohm :\21:44
gri+ a lot more to other people21:44
DocScrutinizer<faenil> iekku: did not know you were a she :D21:44
faenilDocScrutinizer: yeah ofc how could I imagine she was a she :D21:44
iekkufaenil, easy google trick ? :D21:45
faenilehehe :P21:45
DocScrutinizerwell, at least here we got some couples where each has a husband21:45
faenilyup :) well, I'm not married, but got a gf :D21:46
iekkuand if someone is calling husband as a wife i think it's easy to assume that both are males21:46
DocScrutinizerwhich would actually make >>i call my husband as a wife<< sound more plausible ;-D21:46
iekkugri, so there's "divide et impera" situation :P21:46
iekkui do the nerd stuff and bring money, he does the rest :P that's why he is wife21:48
* gri does both ... damn21:48
faeniliekku: haahaha21:48
DocScrutinizerboooh, macho!!! ;-P21:48
iekkugri, you can't always win :D21:48
faenilbut is scared of everything :P21:49
faenilbut gri*21:49
grifaenil: no, only cameras (and spiders, yes)21:49
iekkuoh, time to get some sleep21:50
faenilhe was asked to take part in an interview, and he sent me XD21:50
griif there's a spider in the room, my girlfriend and I seem to be doomed21:50
faenilbastard xD lol :P and I also lied during the interview ( well, that's anothing thing, lol)21:50
faenilgri: ahaah my ex-gf was like that21:51
faenilgri: are you already in augsburg?21:53
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grifaenil: In a city next to it since I'm not directly from augsburg21:54
gritraffic home was hell but it was rush hour21:54
faeniloh...well good anyway21:55
griwas here at 18:40 so I'm here quite a while :)21:55
faenilyou got there almost before me, lol21:56
faeniliekku: so, don't you know anything about CE on n9?21:56
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faenilshe must be already sleeping :D22:00
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japploI try to build keepassx for meego manhattan and I get this error:
javispedroI'd love to checkout such a Meego.22:04
faenildon't be evil javis! XD22:05
japplowhat is the reason for this?22:05
javispedrojapplo: you want to add libxi-dev to your build dependencies22:05
faenilit's Harmattan, not Manhattan22:05
faeniloh you meant the problem, lol22:05
javispedrojavispedro: you are a genius!22:05
javispedrojapplo: where are you building this?22:05
faeniljavispedro: ahahah22:05
japploi tried it with mad22:06
javispedrojapplo: under the QtSDK? try the other rootstrap22:06
japployes, /opt/qtsdk/Madde/bin/mad make22:06
javispedroharmattan mad in the qtsdk comes with two sysroots/rootstraps, one is called "nokia-meego" iirc, try that one.22:06
mgedminjapplo, looks like missing build dependencies22:07
japplo/opt/qtsdk/Madde/bin/mad list says harmattan-nokia-meego-api is default22:07
javispedrojapplo: err then try the other one, what's it named?22:07
javispedrothat one :)22:08
mgedminXInput.h ought to be in the libxi-dev package22:08
japployes, I've installed it. I think...22:09
japplo/opt/qtsdk/Madde/bin/mad-admin xdpkg -i libxtst-dev_1.1.0-3-meego421+0m6_armel.deb22:10
javispedroah, so you already know mad-admin, perfect22:10
mgedminI'm completely unfamiliar with madde22:10
javispedrojapplo: do the same with
mgedmindoes it build debs from a debian source package in a chroot of some kind?  do you have a debian/control file with Build-Depends: ..., libxi-dev ?22:11
javispedromgedmin: madde does not care about them22:11
javispedro(at least when using QtCreator...)22:12
javispedrojavispedro: you need a better IRC client that does not include the user's current alias in the TAB completion roster22:13
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japplojavispedro: is installed and now I get a Segmentation fault :-)22:13
faenilzz_gri: rescue your n922:14
* javispedro runs away22:14
* faenil hides22:14
* merlin1991 needs a flash image for n9 ffs22:15
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faenilmerlin1991: the new ocf is out22:16
faeniloh sorry22:16
faenilthat's for n95022:16
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merlin1991n9 not n950 :/22:16
faenilsure, sorry :) got both, so I did not think about it22:16
faenillast news from Nokia Conversations is, it's coming in the Fourth Quarted22:17
faenilmerlin1991: while at qt dev days someone was saying that the fw should have been released the day before Dev Days...but they found some last minute bug, and the22:18
faeniland they postponed it22:18
faenilmerlin1991: I tried to get more info about the new update from a N9 team guy at dev days this morning, but he would just say22:18
faenil"I know when it's coming out, but I can't say anything"22:19
faeniland there's one more thing to witness that theory22:20
faenilwe were given free NFC stickers to use with the N9 (those who got a free one=22:21
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
faenilBUT, actual fw can't read NFC tags...22:21
faenilactually it can read NFC tags, but it doesn't perform the correspondent operation22:21
SpeedEvilhmm - what's the link to the limits...22:21
faenillike it reads the website but doesn't open the webbrowser22:21
merlin1991thanks for the info faenil22:21
faenilnp ;)22:22
faenilso I think they had NFC stickers coz they wanted to release the update before dev days :)22:22
merlin1991afaik nfc reading works if you try it directly, at least the test app gives me results22:22
faenilyes that's what I meant...22:22
faenilit reads, but it doesn't perform the corresponding operation22:23
faenilit reads the website string22:23
faenilbut it doesn't open the website in the webbrowser afterwards22:23
merlin1991I would really like a way to write some sort of plugin that can handle any nfc uri22:24
merlin1991not only specifig ndef msgs22:24
faenilI know almost nothing about nfc, so I can't help you :)22:25
merlin1991the problem is that according to docs you can only register your application to get called for custom ndef messages22:25
merlin1991so in order todo what I want I need to write a bg deamon :/22:25
faenilI can tell you thought (just as an info) that the stickers we were given are 96bytes, 192bytes, and 1Kb22:26
faeniland the 1kb one should have some kind of security feature22:26
faenilJust noticed that the Lumia 800 ha NO front camera...-.-22:28
deramnfc reading seams to work at least in bundled angry birds...22:28
merlin1991my interest is not exactly todo anything with the data, but I want to use it as sort of action trigger, i.e put a sticker on my car bt system where the id triggers enabling of bt on the phone22:28
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lardman|homeevening all22:29
deramgot levels open with city public transportation card..22:29
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: That will mean continual polling of the NFC at ~1hz or more.22:29
faenilmerlin1991: and that was the kind of application I was thinking about too22:29
faenilkinda switch22:29
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: Which will have some impact on battery life.22:29
SpeedEvilAs it's got to activate quite a high power transmit coil.22:29
faenilSpeedEvil: I did not get you22:30
merlin1991SpeedEvil: the phone detects nearby tags by itself if nfc is enabled in the settings22:30
lardman|homeanyone have any ideas how I access the QGLWidget that I've set as my view widget from my QDeclarativeItem?22:30
merlin1991(I do get the nfc banner)22:30
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SpeedEvilmerlin1991: Sure - the hardware has to poll for the tag. This will be moderately expensive in terms of power.22:30
faenillardman|home: I have been playing with that same thing...22:30
SpeedEvilI'd expect it to knock a few days off standby.22:30
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lardman|homefaenil: I guess one could just pass a pointer to the QDeclarativeView?22:31
merlin1991SpeedEvil: I have nfc "enabled" all the time, and standby is more than a day so more than enough22:31
lardman|homebut I don't see a method of QDeclarativeView to get the view widget anyway22:31
gridamn, laptop turned off while phoning :/22:31
faenilI have a QDeclarativeItem and put the gl functions in its paintevent22:32
lardman|homesame here, but i need to bind a texture22:32
faenilso that's kinda QGLWidget but with qml access22:32
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: do you have 'energy profiler' installed? And can you try it with and without?22:32
merlin1991no but I can22:32
faenilok so you just do that inside the paint function of the item22:32
lardman|homeQDeclarativeItem isn't descended from QGLWidget unfortunately22:32
merlin1991I just need to find some way to plug into that os level nfc detection22:33
grifaenil: did you also need all three nfc stickers to unlock all angry birds levels?22:33
faenilgri: my N9 is still they unlock ab levels? O_O22:33
Arkenoiso seems that it is reliably bricked, won't even charge :-(22:33
merlin1991SpeedEvil: is energy profiler one of the dev tools?22:33
faenillardman, I don't get your problem, you need no glwidget22:34
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: yes.22:34
grifaenil: oh, forgot that :) yes every nfc thingy unlocks the angry birds levels22:34
faenilyou just set an empty glwidget as the viewport of the qdeclarativeview22:34
mgedmingri, all you all you need to unlock angry birds is vi :)22:34
lardman|homefaenil: I was hoping to use the bindTexture() method of QGLWidget22:34
faenilgri: wow! :D22:34
SpeedEvilmerlin1991: Alternatively - bmedatalogger may be installed as a commandline app22:34
faenillardman|home: of course, and you can use it22:34
merlin1991SpeedEvil: docs on the energy profiler?22:35
grimgedmin: well, I did not activate the developer mode nor put a sim card in yet :)22:35
SpeedEvilnvm - sorry - going to sleep.22:35
faenillardman|home: I don't get your problems :D You just transfer all your calls from the glwidget's paintGL to item's paint()22:35
grilardman: you don't need a gl view, a context is enaugh - and this even has static functions for getting the current one22:36
lardman|homefaenil: so you have placed a QGLWidget in the QDeclarativeWidget?22:36
Summelisounds like a very bad idea...22:36
grierr glwidget, you need a glwidget as viewport - damn :P22:36
grifaenil: or -graphicssystem opengl ;)22:37
faenilglwidget being an "empty" one22:37
Summelimixing qgraphicsview based stuff with qwidgets... not so good idea :)22:37
lardman|homefaenil: yeah, done that22:37
faenilSummeli: qgraphicsview and qwidgets?22:37
faenillardman|home: ok, so now you just take your paintGL code and copy it to QDeclItem's paint()22:38
Summelifaenil: yeah, huge penalty in fps22:38
faeniland find a way to call initializeGL too22:38
faenilPerformance I have are the ones I expected...22:38
faenili.e. 20fps with 40k tri/sec22:38
faenilor smthg like that22:38
faenildon't remember ..22:39
lardman|homefaenil: hang on 5, on phone22:39
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* gri would use Qt3D but that's out of the yuestion here22:39
Summeligri: me too22:39
faenilexactly, out of question :P22:39
Summeliusing shaders is so fast with that code22:39
faenilSummeli: well using shaders is always write code and compile, what's difficult in that?22:40
faenilsetting uniforms and stuff?22:40
faenilSummeli: anything if you think I'm doing something wrong, please insist and I'll change it ;)22:40
Summelifaenil: yeah, you don't have to do that with qt3d22:41
faenilSummeli: okay, but that's easy stuff :)22:41
Summeliand it even has the default shaders for you22:41
faenilSummeli: that's already better :P22:41
ieatlinti'm voting for someone for mayor running on a platform of "shut up", a tax on "ironic mustaches", and "all cops in chaps".. among other key ideas.22:41
* ieatlint loves his city22:41
faenilI'm not using anything because I want to learn how it works, don't know about lardman ;)22:41
grifaenil: already left the bar?22:43
faenilgri: I'm still in the hostel...22:43
faenilgri: which bar are you talking about? :)22:43
grithe hostel's bar22:43
faeniloh ok, yeah I'm still close to there22:43
faenilpeople sleeping in my 12 people room, lol22:44
faenilSummeli: I'm actually having problems with raypicking atm22:44
faenilwould you please help me out? I can send you the code...even tomorrow ;)22:45
Summelifaenil: I'm afraid that I don't have time for it :/22:45
SummeliI'm quite busy at work..22:45
lardman|homethe issue is when I set up my OpenGL code, I need to bind a texture, which was previously being done by a call to QGLWidget, but now I don't have a pointer to one of those22:45
faenilSummeli: ok, no problem ;) my problem is I think I have some problems with don't know what...22:45
faenilray picking only works when I don't move camera/scene22:46
faeniland it works on the left but not on the right, or smthg like that22:46
lardman|homein initialiseGL() in fact...22:46
faeniljust replace that call with a pure GL one then22:46
faenilglGenTexture or don't know whatelse :)22:47
lardman|homesure, 'twas my next step, just wondering if I was doing it wrong though22:47
lardman|homethe docs are somewhat sparse on things like this22:47
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faenilyup, I asked for help for days to get it working xD22:48
faenilread forums and stuff22:48
lardman|homeyeah I've got this far using tips from Questions and forums22:48
faeniland still, I have a little problem, which could be unrelated to this though22:48
lardman|homeI'll have another look at the OpenGLES code and convert away from the Qt wrappers22:48
faenilSummeli: what's your idea instead? what should I do?22:49
lardman|homeI'd prefer to not being using OpenGL, I just want to render video data to a QML element22:49
lardman|homes/prefer not to/am not bothered whether I use22:49
Summelifaenil: hard to say anything without looking at the code or seeing the what it does..22:49
faenilI meant you said something about qwidgets and graphicsview22:50
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Summeliyeah, last time i tested it, it turned out with very bad fps22:50
faenillardman|home: there was a session about qtquick3d being used to render video on a cube today at qt dev days22:50
Summelibut that could be better now..22:50
faenilSummeli: could you please elaborate? what's the alternative22:50
gridamn, nvidia driver installer just resarted my laptop without asking22:51
faenilgri: lol22:51
Summelifaenil: not mixing them :D22:51
lardman|homefaenil: hmm, I'll see if I can find a webcast22:51
faenilSummeli: who's using qwidget and who's using qgraphicsview?22:51
faeniland what's the alternative? (how do I avoid mixing them?)22:51
Summelifaenil: in this case I would guess that you're going go get the same 20fps in you qgrpahicsview based object too22:51
Summelimaybe that's not a problem22:52
faenilthis is the only way it seemed to work, and that's what people on chat told me to do, and what qtdevnet forum said22:52
faenilbut really, who's using qwidget and who qgraphicsview?22:52
faenilI mean which class..22:53
Summelifaenil: I think that it depends...22:53
Summeliwhich Qt version are you using22:53
faenilhow do you know that I'm mixing them then XD22:54
lardman|homemixing as in how? Having a ui which has both QWidgets and QGraphicsView objects?22:54
faenillardman|home: that's what I'm trying to understand :) I'm not a Qt expert, and Summeli is quite good at graphics :P22:54
grilardman|home: No idea what you're looking for but you can also start your program with "-graphicsystem opengl" and use QGLContext::currentContext() for your texture calls22:54
Summelifaenil: newermind22:54
SummeliI have only tested these on my desktop with the git-version22:55
faenilSummeli: really, I wanted an explanation :O as you wish, anyway ;)22:55
faenilCould you please elaborate more on the details? :D22:55
faenilI'm not getting what's going on here xD22:56
Summelifaenil: what I tested it seemed that the glwidget slowed my drawing with the declarative view22:56
lardman|homegri: I have a QML app, with a QDeclarativeView setup in C++ and I wish to export a C++ object in the form of a QDeclarativeItem to the QMl code so that I can render video22:56
SummeliI didn't get the 60fps with that one22:56
faenilok...what could you do instead?22:56
lardman|homegri: QGLContext static calls look interesting though22:56
SummeliI haven't debugged that one enough to say more about mixing them..22:56
Summelifaenil: there's no solution, if you want to have them both22:57
faenillardman|home: hadn't you already solved the problem : )22:57
faenilSummeli: the things is, at the moment I see NO other option to do the same thing, that's why I'm asking you :D22:57
Summelifaenil: yes, there's no options for this22:57
lardman|homefaenil: potentially ;)22:57
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faenilSummeli: okay, good :)22:58
griSummeli: don't all meegotouch applications use opengl by default? I thought it was like that22:58
Summeligri: but those are not qwidget based22:58
Summelior are they? :)22:58
mgedminqt apps use opengl when they're in the foreground, and regular 2d graphics when their thumbnails are rendered for the task switcher22:58
griSummeli: yeah but faenil wanted to use a qglwidget as viewport that's not a qwidget based application22:58
faenilgri: I can use whatever you think it's best...22:59
faenilgri: I only want to reach my target, which is opengl 3d game22:59
faenilwith qml ui22:59
griwell, qdeclarativeview with gl viewport != widget based application as far as I know22:59
Summeligri: yeah!23:00
grifaenil: so that should be fast - it get slow when you start adding qwidget*'s to your graphicsscene23:01
faenilok got what you meant, you were referring to Summeli23:02
Summelithat's what I saw too23:02
griyeah, I was just telling you both that you were not talking about the same topic :P23:02
faenilgri: :P23:02
faenilgri: I forgot to check the code with you..23:03
grifaenil: well, you still have gitorious, remote desktop, skype ... so there should be ways23:04
faenilsure ;)23:04
faenilgri: remember it's not starting from the icon? I think it's because of the target update in the sdk23:04
merlin1991does anybody know about the underlying nfc software stack?23:04
faenilbecause the icon is not there either23:04
faenilwhile there should have been Qt icon23:05
faenilso probably both icon and bin paths have changed23:05
faenilin the latest update23:05
faenilor smthg like that23:05
merlin1991I could only find the high level qt api docs, wich do't offer what I need23:05
grifaenil: I also have the latest sdk (couple of days old) and my application still works23:05
faenilwho knows :P23:06
faenilapplication icons doesn't break like that :P23:06
faenilit's not like my code is bugged, that's autogenerated xD23:06
griso does it start by commandline?23:07
grido you use invoker? can you start it with invoker by the commandline?23:07
faenilis it in opt/bin?23:07
gridepends where you have installed it23:08
Summeliyeah, I had to change invoker after lates update23:08
faenilSummeli: good news23:08
faenilgri, I did not choose any installation path23:08
Summeli--type=d into --type=e and it starts up23:08
gri.desktop file23:08
Summeliyou can test that with console application quite easily23:08
Summelitry to start your app with invoker23:09
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Arkenoisucks. last time i tried it was identified by USB subsystem as "nokia rom". now it does not show up on usb at all :-/23:09
faenilok ;)23:10
* gri still has --type=d there and it works .. hmm23:10
Arkenoii guess i should try to open the cover and charge the battery by external charger :-/ if i only had one..23:10
Summeligri: well, I all kinds of starnge memory tricks with my app23:10
SummeliI'm just happy that it starts23:11
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SummeliI can't really remember what those types were, but changing the app type did help23:11
griSummeli: yeah but I also have other problems with invoker. If the application is started by invoker, aegis forbis me to open the contact card which is just a simple dbus call that's not even limited to something23:11
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Summeligri: maybe you should check the types aswell :)23:12
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DanielWi got my n9 yesterday and just start playing arround with the qtsdk23:19
DanielWand well i now have a problem with qtmobility23:20
faenilDanielW: got it where?23:20
DanielWi am always getting 0 entries from QOrganizerManager.items(23:20
faenilmaybe gri knows something about that23:21
DanielWi bought it on from a guy who got it from getmobile.de23:21
* mgedmin googles QOrganizerManager23:23
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mgedminwhat is this "organizer"? calendar?23:24
mgedmincould be you need some aegis tokens to access that info...23:24
DanielWi thought it is the calender.  and about aegis tokens, i put something (not sure if it is correct) in the manifest.aegis file23:25
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DanielWshouldn't i get this "QOrganizerManager::PermissionsError"  from QOrganizerManager::error() if it is an aegis problem?23:26
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mgedminno idea, sorry23:27
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mgedminhaven't encountered aegis-protected stuff in my meager development efforts yet...23:28
faenilso how can I get root on 39-5?23:31
griI think I heard that you can't access the calendar of the n9 at all but that may be wrong23:31
grifaenil: login as developer or user and run devel-su with "rootme" as password23:31
faenilis that exactly the same?23:31
faenilok thx23:32
faenilwhy did they delete the other way?23:32
mgedminbecause letting anyone in the local network root your n950 is a bad idea?23:33
gridamn, I could have put a trojan horse on all beta2 n950's on devdays :P23:33
npmanybody have a sample debian 'control' file that passed ovi store requirements for a qt multimedia/mobility/location app?23:39
npmis 'Depends: ${shlibs:Depends}' good enough or do i need to explicitly list dependencies?23:40
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npmor ... if my package builds and installs fine on my n950, can i assume its deb 'control' file is setup apropriately?23:49
* npm attempting to understand/comply with
npmwhich says "control file: added short and long package descriptions and any dependencies and build dependencies to the file"23:51
* lardman|home heads for bed23:53
lardman|homenight all23:53
grifaenil: wow, I saw this displays some months ago and though "who would control a phone by twisting" :P23:53
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faenilgri: ahahaha23:53
faenilelop will, lol23:53
gridid I mention that I even hate controlling games with accelerometer? ;)23:54
faenilwell I hate that too... :|23:54
grithe video convinced me that even the woman showing the controls is confused by them23:55
faenilNEWS: N9 preorder in Italy...769,99€............................................................................................................................23:56
faenilgri: that's coz it's a new UI23:56
gri"you broke your display by bending too hard"23:57
faenilwho said that? :D23:58
faeniloh ok :D23:58
faenilbecause this one doesn't seems to break down23:59
faenillook at the end23:59
MohammadAGoh nice, a wiggle interface23:59
MohammadAGI have the best marketing campaign for it23:59
grifaenil: how do you bend the rest of your phone hardware?23:59

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