IRC log of #harmattan for Sunday, 2011-10-23

ieatlintssh can be disabled by leaving developer mode, or typing "stop ssh" on the terminal00:00
ieatlint(i believe you'd need to run "stop ssh" after each boot)00:00
augustlI mean developer mode in general. Once enabled, there's no turning back?00:00
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ieatlintuh, you can turn it off00:01
ieatlintnever tried myself00:01
ieatlintbut all it does is install some packages00:01
augustlI see00:02
DocScrutinizerthe major downside is in beta2 devel mode probably isn't what you expected it to be00:02
augustlaegis, right?00:02
DocScrutinizernot that it was exactly my dream of a devel environment in beta100:03
ieatlintwell he's on an n9, so he's on 34-1... dev mode functions the same as beta2 though00:03
ieatlintaegis is always on your device00:04
ieatlintwhat doc means is that *all* it does is install a terminal app, an sshd, and an "sdk connect" tool00:04
messertingIs there a shopping list app that I can synchronize with another phone for the Nokia N9?00:04
ieatlintit doesn't reduce security at all, allowing easier development00:04
augustlI hope someone makes a safe way of replacing the kernel with an aegis free one. A pretty, normal linux ftw.00:04
DocScrutinizeraugustl: there already is such a way, alas you lose harmattan OS ( or some limbs of it) on the way00:05
augustlDocScrutinizer: meego ce you mean?00:05
DocScrutinizerand since beta2+ there's not even a way back to normal, until Nokia maybe eventually publishes a OCF for it00:06
DocScrutinizeraugustl: read the thread I linked00:06
DocScrutinizerno I don't mean CE00:06
augustlhmm, I'll read that thread :)00:06
* RST38h washes his hands for today, after emailing an Ovi Store developer support guy. If I can't resolve this issue, then I guess that is it for me with Harmattan development =(00:07
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augustlare there any news on updates for the n9 btw? Haven't seen any.00:08
ieatlintRST38h: what issue are you having?00:08
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RST38hieatlint: Aegis rejecting fmsx_3.5.12-1_armel.deb: var/lib/dpkg/info/fmsx._aegis not installed by the package00:08
DocScrutinizeralways same issue: HARMATTEN00:08
ieatlintaugustl: yeah, they're going to be offering an optional "upgrade" for the n9 to run windows phone 7, which will be available shortly after nokia world next week.  near the end of the year, the "upgrade" will become non-optional00:09
DocScrutinizerwhich is 99% == pAEGIS00:09
DocScrutinizerfor the issue00:09
augustlieatlint: watwatwatwatwat?!?00:10
RST38hieatlint: the package has been built with beta2 platform sdk, the same way I have always built it with beta1 platform sdk00:10
augustlnon-optional upgrade?!?00:10
augustlI hope someone creates a workaround by then00:11
ieatlintRST38h: sounds like it's missing in a manifest00:11
ieatlintbut dunno00:11
ieatlintaugustl: you'll probably have to find a way to disable checking the nokia servers00:11
RST38hieatlint: plat sdk generated manifests automatically00:11
ieatlintand do they not include the file?00:11
augustlieatlint: where did you hear this from?00:12
ieatlintdisgruntled nokia employees00:12
ieatlintthey're not too pleased, but the decision was made from above00:13
augustlieatlint: zomg00:13
augustlthat's pretty crazy00:15
augustlwindows phone 7 with the harmattan/swipe UI? Or just plain windows phone 7?00:15
ieatlintnot sure about that, but i suspect whatever UI nokia will be releasing it with00:16
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augustlif that's true, I totally regret buying a n900:17
messertingaugustl: you are trolling00:17
messertingaugustl: sorry00:18
augustlmesserting: no, I'm genuinely upset00:18
ieatlintjust because someone says they bought an n9 doesn't mean they're a troll00:18
messertingaugustl: sorry, wong name, I meant ieatlint " the "upgrade" will become non-optional"00:19
augustlmesserting: do you have any sources indicating otherwise? I sure hope so :)00:19
ieatlintheh, wish i were...00:20
DocScrutinizerI first thought ieatlint is just kidding, but actually I start to doubt if it might be true (maybe even without him actually knowing)00:20
messertingthey cannot send out an "non-optional" upgrade in the EU, that is taking away freedoms from the user00:20
ieatlintah, maybe there was a misunderstanding on that point then00:21
augustlI just can't imagine they'll replace the entire swipe UI with something else. That would make no sense. So at least we'll get winmo with swipe...00:21
DocScrutinizermesserting: they also can not stop support (e.g. SUPL, repos) without any notice, after as short as 18 months00:21
DocScrutinizerstill they do00:21
messertingWell, I was quite suprised that this aegis stuff was on my N9. Is it even compatible with GPL if I cannot disable it??00:22
kimjuwell, n9 has omap3. is there any windows phones with ti chipset? so I don't believe there will even an optional update. and mandatory update is just impossible00:23
DocScrutinizermesserting: sure :-/00:23
ieatlinthas nokia done their gpl code releases for this yet?00:24
DocScrutinizerkimju: mandatory update is as possible as aegis having a timebomb anywhere is possible00:24
messertingDocScrutinizer: Sorry, can you clarify - MeeGo (or Maemo/Harmattan) is GPL, right? And is Aegis compatible, given it cannot be uninstalled?00:24
ieatlintmeego is a name00:25
DocScrutinizerGPL is not about uninstalling anything, right?00:25
messertingDocScrutinizer: GPL is about freedom for the user, installation on hardware is a core part. Right?00:25
messertingHere's the GPL quiz:
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DocScrutinizerread all about security frameworks, and what they can get used for when implemented properly, at00:29
infobot , or "The purpose of this framework is: ... to make sure that the platform meets the requirements set by third party software that requires a safe execution environment.", or, or
messertingIs this relevant?:
DocScrutinizerthe wiki link in there00:29
DocScrutinizerand none of all that is in any way relevant or even related to GPL in any way whatsoever00:29
DocScrutinizermaemo/HARM has (and always had) blobs that are not related to GPL (e.g gfx/dsp driver)00:31
messertingDocScrutinizer: How can it not be relevant for GPL? I have purchased a phone with GPL on it, and I cannot modify the GPL parts of it because of Aegis.00:31
DocScrutinizerand there can theoretically anything inside such a blob00:31
ieatlintthe GPL only gives you access to GPL code, not the ability to modify the device00:32
messertingSo, how do install my own kernel then?00:32
DocScrutinizerGPL is not about modification of binaries on a particular machine. All I see when reading GPL is about *sourcecode*00:32
ieatlintand going to for device is like asking rms00:33
ieatlintand that's never good advice :P00:33
messertingHm, I might be thinking of GPL3. Is Harmattan GPL2?00:33
ieatlintneither version grants you rights to do anything with binaries00:33
messertingieatlint: GPL3 has an requirement on Installation Information00:34
ieatlintaegis is also a kernel module, so it falls outside of the GPL (same way as say, nvidia kernel modules do)00:34
DocScrutinizeraegis *is* GPL00:34
messertingDocScrutinizer: sure00:34
DocScrutinizerjust that doesn't help anything00:35
ieatlintoooh, i didn't know aegis was gpl00:35
Lilltigerieatlint: that is not true either, the GPL wouldent allow for binary modules like the nvidia one00:35
Lilltigerbut the kernel is LGPL00:35
DocScrutinizerwell, at least most parts of aegis are GPL afaik00:35
DocScrutinizerwhat's NOT GPL is the root cert owned by Nokia00:36
messertingWell, will it be possible to *jailbreak* my GPL Linux phone in the future? (I though I'd never had to ask such an Apple-ish question!)00:37
Lilltigermesserting: you can already do that and install any linux you like00:37
NIN101Lilltiger: the kernel is not LGPL.00:37
DocScrutinizerand NOLO will tear down TPM aka FritzChip when booting a kenel that'S not signed by Nokia root cert00:37
messertingLilltiger: could you paste a link for  a flasher?00:37
DocScrutinizersee wiki00:38
DocScrutinizermeggo wiki this time00:38
DocScrutinizermeego even00:38
messertingHm, that's nice, thanks! What are the downsides?00:39
DocScrutinizeryou can flash meegoCE right away, and thus permanently break your warranty and block any way back to harmattan00:39
Sputso, if one has done the FOTA upgrade to 1.1, and now can't log in to his Nokia account - what's the recommended way out of that?00:39
DocScrutinizeryou also can flash a pretty stock HARM kernel just built locally and thus without signature, and you will have a HARM system in "open mode" - again no way back atm00:40
javispedroSput: the window!00:40
javispedroSput: there's NO way as of now.00:41
Sputnow I can't even install the shiny devdays app :/00:41
mgedminthere's no one-click flasher for the N9?00:42
DocScrutinizercool, isn't it? :-S00:43
messertingyeah, pretty cool...00:43
Sputalso, my twitter client seems to have stopped working after the second reboot of the phone, can't log in anymore00:43
Sputand of course, the email client does no longer remember passwords00:43
jabisthere is a flasher, but won't do any good without a signed fw (which are none out there)00:43
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javispedroto complicate things, the MALF message on the N9 now says you should take the device to Nokia Care..00:44
messertingI thought the N9 would be everything my N900 was, but with a better UI... Seems it so locked down, even the iFanBoys could love it (now I'm trolling...)00:44
javispedro -- the iFanBoys are loving it, so I guess that is the point.00:45
messertingah, yes, read that one :)00:45
jabisafter N8 I'm happy with N9, tho dev-wise not a breakthrough, but a breakdown on several factors00:46
messertingAnyways, anyone got Swype working on the n9? (I'm not talking about Swipe, it works, but the alternative input method swype)00:46
messertingAlso, do you get calendar events showing on the homescreen? (or what is it called - eventscreen?)00:47
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jabishaven't gotten it to work (yet) still battling, like with rdesktop to accept the virtual keyboard -.-00:47
messertingI'm also struggling a bit with copy-paste in the email client00:48
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messertingHow do I copy text from an email and paste it in an text message?00:50
jabisI got distracted over the fact that I need to "widen" an online shop api to work with DHL's PI tracking system00:51
jabisspoilt my weekend fun with N9 -.-00:51
javispedroI have to wonder what is the underlying cause for the "slopiness" regarding FIASCO and SDK releases these days.00:52
jabissloppy or slack - still echoes the "I don't give a fuck"ness-factor00:53
javispedroon N900 the delays came on the PR side, the SDK and sources came even months before.00:53
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DocScrutinizerjavispedro: on fremantle there's been no big difference between developer system and sales version00:55
javispedrothere where some, though.00:55
jabisI have a hunch that the N9 "experiment" is still undergoing some sort of scrutiny of them smaller bosses, the ones that decide whether it's best to give a minimal effort or to just bury the devs with new tasks regarding the official policy00:56
DocScrutinizersome minor ones, but not like you had to fork out a devel branch weeks and months prior to shipping the SDK00:56
javispedrowell I don't know the internal process, but I wouldn't say the differences between SDK and device are much larger on Harm..00:57
messertingI find the N900 quite good still, and agree with that the N950 is superior to the N9.00:57
messertingAlthough I'm a bit negative here, I find the N9 very, very promising, and hope for great stuff in the time to come :)00:59
rafael2k_people, is anyone working on porting fennec/firefox?00:59
jabisporting to what/where?00:59
messertingTo me, it seems a bit "almost done"-ish. Some minor parts are missing. Same was with N900, but the first update was very good.01:00
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jabiswell - I'll comment on that after the first fw update is announced and I've gotten the original fw from our b2b provider so there's no chance to brick my work phone -.-01:01
DocScrutinizer what a fool, dark gray font on black - THANKS :-/01:02
messertingDocScrutinizer: yes, it's like whispering ;)01:03
messertingIs it possible to change the browser's user-agent string? I don't like to be forced to use the mobile versions of web pages.01:04
messertingAnd - anyone know how to connect with msn (Microsoft messenger)?01:05
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jabisI thought messenger was dead x)01:08
messertingjabis: well, I would hope that too, but some of my friends can only be reached by that cra*p.01:11
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* lardman is among those01:13
lardmanfor his sins ;)01:14
lardmanor rather because that's what his friends use01:14
jabisdon't get me wrong - I have msn too - I've only set it up during '90s :D01:15
messertingIsn't the msn protocol open now? and called by another name?01:15
macmaNDocScrutinizer: yeah that kinda struck my eye as well01:16
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lardmanmacmaN: after reading that it reminds me that I keep trying to swipe applications away on my Android Galaxy Tab :)01:21
macmaNlardman: yep, same here01:22
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Lilltigermesserting: it might be possible throught google talk01:37
messertingLilltiger: how?01:38
Lilltigeri havent tried it myself yet01:38
messertinghm, cool01:45
DocScrutinizermesserting: macmaN: pro-tip ctrl-A01:45
messertingDocScrutinizer: ?01:45
macmaNgood point01:45
macmaNxcalib -invert probably works too01:46
DocScrutinizerkonttori 95% left meego dpt. of Nokia :-/ So definitely it's a zombie project by now01:47
DocScrutinizernot that this was any news01:48
messertingsorry, I don't follow :). I understand that ctrl-A is mark-all, but where? what was the context?01:48
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-23 00:02:35] <DocScrutinizer> what a fool, dark gray font on black - THANKS :-/01:48
messerting(it's gettin' late)01:48
javispedroyeah, as I was reading that part of konttori's blog post I could not avoid feeling gloomy..01:48
messertingaha, I see :)01:48
DocScrutinizeryup :-/01:49
javispedromeanwhile, in a few minutes I've hacked some input method for harm using pocketsphinx xd01:49
DocScrutinizerWUT???? incredible01:49
javispedronow I can go showing around true state of the art voice recognition.... albeit with the spanish model it seems to produce words from /dev/random..01:50
DocScrutinizerworks on paegis?01:50
javispedrowith or without01:50
DocScrutinizerFRIGGIN DAMN COOL SH*T!01:50
DocScrutinizernow THIS might even make me reconsider my attitude towards the aegis coffin01:51
jabisjavispedro you seem to be a loose cannon with aiming capabilities - kudos for your work01:51
javispedroDocScrutinizer: downside is that I had to make some changes to PocketSphinx to use your favourite sound daemon.01:52
jabisit would sound gay to say that "I've followed you around" but... at the forums X)01:53
jabis*meant @ javis01:54
jabisyou almost have as cool name as I have  ^^01:54
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: I'm already sold to the idea to wear N9(50) without ever touching it, UI based solely on voice input and tts01:54
javispedrothis is dictation only01:55
javispedrocontrol is way harder, I elaborated a bit on this a bit yesterday01:55
DocScrutinizersure I wouldn't use it for IRC, not this year at least01:55
DocScrutinizeryou would just need to inject kbd and ts events01:56
javispedrobasically, I think QML apps don't bend themselves well neither to tts or recognition. a18y  seems to be lacking..01:56
javispedrothe problem is "knowing what is on the screen", semantically.01:56
DocScrutinizerhmm, I see01:56
DocScrutinizerwhere's focus, so to say.01:57
DocScrutinizernot only focus, but also all the other little details01:57
javispedrounless you are thinking "move mouse pointer two pixels down"01:58
DocScrutinizermaybe we need a combination of screenshot, pattern matching, and OCR to get this done01:58
javispedroI've heard that before01:58
javispedrofor the "global copy & paste" idea01:58
javispedroshould not be a surprise, the problem is the same01:59
DocScrutinizeractually some c&p tools work that way, iirc mainly on windoze01:59
javispedrowindoze, as crap as it is, does have good a18y stuff usually01:59
javispedrogetting text from a window usually "works"01:59
DocScrutinizer~dict a18y02:00
infobotcould not find definition for a18y02:00
* DocScrutinizer starts counting02:00
* javispedro hits head a few times02:00
javispedroyes, accessibility.02:01
DocScrutinizerwell meanwhile maybe02:01
DocScrutinizerwith windows98 etc this wasn't exactly the case02:01
DocScrutinizerand I recall tools that used the currently used font (somehow available info) to match it acainst screen to get ascii c&p02:02
javispedro"One afternoon in the sixties one of the background shoes was slender for the afternoon externals on the internet around two plain windows02:03
DocScrutinizerooh, ablas espanol?02:04
jabisexactly the same shit flir, cifr and the likes do to the day ^^02:05
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DocScrutinizerI guess it will get better with a bit of training02:05
jabisonly those are made for exactly the opposite - making accessible text pretty - not the other way around02:06
javispedrothink I am going to upload at least the sphinx packages and see if someone does something cooler02:06
DocScrutinizerisn't it a pity that metawatch has no speaker and mic?02:07
jabisI like my overflowing pool of data without a voice, thanks x)02:07
jabisand my voice sounds like a dirty ole 60's gramps so no thank you to that either x)02:08
javispedrosomeone said my english has a new zealand accent02:09
javispedroI've never been to new zealand :(02:09
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jabisa stupid question but has anyone managed to get the virtual kbd to play nice with rdesktop around here?02:14
javispedrothe virtual kb will only play nice with MTF or QML apps, shortly followed by Qt apps in second place.02:14
jabisthat's what I thought *sigh* tho wrapping it to a Qt app shouldn't be much of a chore02:16
javispedroI dislike all of the reviews of the N9 so far, both the positive and negative ones.02:17
jabiswhat about them?02:17
javispedropeople love to center the entire review on what is basically the launcher..02:17
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javispedrosome of the negative ones didn't even use a N9 (that one who misdescribed how unlocking the screen works? ...)02:19
javispedroon the positive ones, they mention "pervasive copy paste".... possibily didn't realize the browser doesn't do copy paste..02:19
DocScrutinizerindeed, all seem to be of astonishingly low insight02:19
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jabisI've yet to read any (credible) reviews on my native tongue - and have had the equipment for a week ( a few weeks sick leave from work ) and the first thing I needed to do was getting browser certs working - blech02:21
infobotjabis meant: I've yet to read any (credible) reviews in my native tongue - and have had the equipment for a week ( a few weeks sick leave from work ) and the first thing I needed to do was getting browser certs working - blech02:22
zogg_whois zx2c402:24
zogg_!whois zx2c402:25
zogg_what is the command of bot?02:25
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jabis$whois zx2c402:27
ZogG-laptopno found it02:27
infobotfrom memory, zogg is not awesome at all02:27
ZogG-laptop~jabis is awesome guy02:27
infobotokay, ZogG-laptop02:27
jabisand to your question - depends on the bot x)02:28
ZogG-laptopanyway enuf with spam02:28
ZogG-laptopjabis: it the same as at #maemo02:28
ZogG-laptopi just forgot howto =)02:28
ZogG-laptopnow i need to go to sleep02:28
* jabis force-sleeps ZogG02:30
jabisdon't get it the wrong way x)02:30
* ZogG-laptop zzZZZZ02:30
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javispedroengadget guys saying "there must be video in skype, because otherwise there won't be any app using the front camera"...02:38
javispedrowell..... color me absolutely unsurprised.02:38
jabisI found it beculiar that no other app in ovi store uses front camera except Screenshot02:39
javispedroare you a newcomer? ;P02:39
jabisdepends on what you mean x)02:41
javispedrovirtually nothing on the n900 used the front camera until the second release will into the middle of its support life02:41
javispedro*well into02:41
jabisI've known there is one, and has been one and it has been marketed (poorly), but I was actually surprised no use case has came afloat02:42
npm_is there a way to access the version string of an application from qml?02:42
javispedroversion string from what?02:42
npm_i guess from the .pro file02:43
javispedrothat would be a surprise02:43
npm_yeah just thought i'd ask02:43
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javispedrothe problem is that there's no standard place where you actually define the application version string02:43
npm_actually really the qtc_packaging/...changelog version02:43
javispedrobasically, you build your own, be it a macro, or something similar...02:43
npm_e.g. "voicetogoog (0.0.1) unstable; urgency=low"02:44
npm_or subcomponents thereof02:44
javispedrothat is just packaging02:44
npm_yes, i'm getting to the final stretch, the blessed about diaglog02:44
berndhsthe debian changelog version is about packaging, not really any application executable version02:45
npm_i realize that, but i wanted to know if there was some magickal qt way of getting the packaging numbers over into qt02:45
npm_e.g. so as to be able to print out an about dialog02:45
npm_and not have to update it each version02:45
berndhsgerp, awk, sed, echo :)02:46
infobotberndhs meant: grep, awk, sed, echo :)02:46
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javispedroI love how they are talking about a very concrete process that I could describe up to the "process X reads byte Y from file Z" level in a very abstract way02:51
jabisjavis, have you got an N9 at hand?02:52
javispedronope, but I have a N950.02:52
jabisI'd love to know what dependecies there are for retail N9, for rsync02:53
javispedrodownload this
javispedroif you are getting one, and you know what "dependencies" or "rsync" or "debian" means, scratchbox _should_ really be in your harddrive somewhere02:55
javispedromeanwhile, pocketsphinx packages for everyone --
jabisjavis, I already have one, but I have no dev-box at hand - I'd like to know what libs I need to get to install rsync on N9 retail, which is distinctly different from 95002:58
javispedroI don't think it's distinctly different in this regard02:58
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: will it "just install" and come with some kind of icon, GUI, etc?02:59
javispedroDocScrutinizer: that is pocketsphinx only02:59
javispedroDocScrutinizer: so it will come with the pocketsphinx_continuous cmd line applet and libraries02:59
jabiswell - distinctly different comparing the fw's :)02:59
DocScrutinizerno use to take it with me to my beer next pub then02:59
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jabisand I cannot just hop to a beta/any firmware just to test03:01
javispedrojabis: I still don't think they are different in this regard.03:01
javispedrothe set of packages that could even be remotely be dependencies of rsync is surely to be identical in both the n950 and n9.03:02
ieatlintlooking at rsync on my desktop, ldd says it doesn't link against anything unusual03:04
ieatlintseems to require libpopt and nothing much more03:06
ieatlintand that's part of harmattan03:06
DocScrutinizerand it links against same things on my laptop and my N90003:07
DocScrutinizerjr@halley:~> ldd `which rsync` =>  (0xffffe000) => /lib/ (0xb77c7000) => /lib/ (0xb77bd000) => /usr/lib/ (0xb77a4000) => /lib/ (0xb7639000) => /lib/ (0xb7632000) => /usr/lib/ (0xb74c0000)        /lib/ (03:08
DocScrutinizer0xb77f7000) => /lib/ (0xb74bb000) => /lib/ (0xb74a7000)03:08
ieatlintyours links against more than mine... mine is just linux-vdso, libacl, libpopt, libc and libattr (with libattr and libacl being optional even)03:09
ieatlintbut everything mine links again has the same libs in harmattan03:10
DocScrutinizerwell, actually I had a mishap when checking on N90003:11
DocScrutinizerIroN900:~# ldd `which rsync` => /lib/ (0x40030000) => /lib/ (0x4003e000) => /lib/ (0x4004d000) => /lib/ (0x4005f000) => /lib/ (0x40184000)        /lib/ (0x40000000)03:11
javispedrowhich is why I've not produced an answer.03:11
DocScrutinizeryup, and cya guys 'n gals03:12
DocScrutinizernah, cheers03:12
jabisI can't figure out anything different from the sdk-environment than that of some lib missing which isn't then again reported when trying to install rsync03:13
* GeneralAntilles yawns.03:13
GeneralAntillesIs it Monday yet?03:13
ieatlintanxious to go to dev days?03:14
jabisGA - ou've still a few hours03:14
* GeneralAntilles dreams of weekends which are actually weekends.03:14
GeneralAntillesieatlint, anxious for another day off.03:14
GeneralAntillesDoing the Monday/Friday weekend here.03:15
ieatlintyeah, good luck :(03:15
ieatlinti spent the last 3 weeks working excessively to get a demo done03:15
GeneralAntillesSounds horrible.03:15
* javispedro notices I've left dictation enabled on the notes app for the past hour03:16
ieatlintand i get to work this weekend on it :(03:16
GeneralAntillesjavispedro, clearly pastebin worthy.03:16
javispedrohigh quality spanish bullshit03:16
GeneralAntillesieatlint, well, clearly if you weren't so lazy and incompetent and had managed to finish the demo in the 3 weeks you had to work on it you wouldn't be working this weekend.03:16
GeneralAntillesDuh. :P03:16
ieatlintclearly :P03:17
GeneralAntillesYeah, thankfully I haven't had any marathon months in a while.03:17
GeneralAntillesI suspect Christmas is gonna suck this year, though.03:17
javispedrooh, it's going to suck.03:18
ieatlintyeah, well, as a nice top to it all, my employer informed me on thursday that they're relocating me for a 4 month contract, starting nov 703:18
ieatlintso uh... yeah ... good times.03:18
jabisieatlint: hopefully you'll get compesated? -.-03:19
dang_can i install swype on the n9 if i deinstalled it? im not finding it on ovi03:20
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ieatlintjabis: uh... no. they pay living expenses and i get a daily stipend, neither of which will compensate me being away from friends/family/electronic luxuries i own at my house for 4 months03:29
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jabisieatlint: your employer is a dick x)03:42
jabisand you're a pussy - that makes for a perfect couple x)03:43
mgedminoh, I thought I had rsync on my n9, but apparently not03:43
* w00t had a month on-site placement late last year03:45
w00twasn't terrible in some ways03:45
jabisw00t: what did you do then? :)03:46
w00tjabis: in what sense?03:49
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dang_hmm the caldav on the n9 doesnt get updates on new events in a calendar somehow03:57
jabisw00t: any04:04
DocScrutinizernow that's been one lame saturday night at pub :-|04:06
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w00tjabis: I went, as I was ok with the arrangements04:21
npmdumb question. will a harmattan app that only works in landscape mode (for now) be rejected from ovi store??04:22
w00tbeing away from home was a bit tough, but seeing a new place was nice :)04:22
npmgiven language like "Graphics, animations, and text are clearly displayed both in landscape mode and in portrait mode."04:22
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jabisnpm: was all the games disclosed from OVI store? :)04:49
jabisnpm: landscape locking is not an automatic discard :)04:51
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npmjabis: that's good to know (landscape/portrait is a feature i'll implement in future version one i get my app out and validated)05:36
* npm finally sees "Notes1: If the content item is using only one UI mode, only execute the steps with the supported UI mode."05:42
npmfor "Content item using input fields must provide a virtual keyboard in different UI modes (portrait / landscape)."05:43
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JackaLXHey folks!  Was just wondering if there was a reason why the PulseAudio tcp module ( isn't present on my N9?  And if there aren't any real reasons, does anyone know where I can get that module (sorry, I can't compile it myself I don't have the right tools avail atm)09:42
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faenilI'm in Muniiiich :D10:06
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faenilI'm dead tired.. :(10:13
griwas the train right in time at muc?10:14
faenil1 hour late10:14
griand now you're in the youth hostel or some starbucks? :)10:15
faenilyouth hostel heehhe :D10:16
faenilCould not sleep on the train...I'm a freaking zombie...10:16
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faenilso tired, and can't use the bedroom before 2 :(10:16
griwhoa, this is bad10:17
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faenilI would have been coding now, if I had the chance to sleep...10:21
faenilI'm not able to do anything instead...10:21
faenilhad had*10:21
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griI would offer you a place to sleep for a while but I won't make it to muc before 13:00 I think :/10:24
faenildon't worry ;) thanks anyway :)10:25
faenillet me know if you are having lunch there or in Munich ;)10:26
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pinheiroguys what is the develper user name for ssh?12:41
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pinheirohumm root used to work12:44
pinheiroooo well12:44
tommaroot login is disabled12:44
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pinheiro:) thanks tomma12:45
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faenilback :D13:50
faenilvisited Munich's centre :D13:50
faenilhad a little tourists' map13:52
faeniland visited all main points in the city centre :D13:52
djszapialready drunk ?13:54
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faenilno :D13:55
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faenilgetting drunk alone would be weird xD13:55
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djszapihi wazd :)13:59
wazddjszapi: heya :)13:59
wazddjszapi: how's your trip? :)13:59
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faenilwazd: busy it seems xD14:02
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Lilltigerwazd: How does MeeCast determain if it's night or day, beacuse I get the night icon for todays weather while it's 13:11 here so should be the day icon.14:13
wazdLilltiger: we're still tweaking the algorythm, sorry for that :)14:14
Lilltigerwazd: ahh ok, just wanted to know if you where aware of the issue. It's great looking, is it possible to replace accuweather with it on the social feed screen of the N9?14:15
wazdLilltiger: yes, it's in testing right now, will be available asap14:16
wazdLilltiger: But you'll have to uninstall the AccuWeather app :(14:16
Lilltigerwazd: ohh noticed that it's not only day/night the whole prognosis is wrong :p (from atleast)14:17
Lilltigerdosent match what thire site says14:17
nealwazd: How does MeeCast determine when to update the weather?14:17
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nealwaz: i.e., when to download updates14:17
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wazdneal: we don't have an autoupdate option yet, but we're hardly working on it cause it really suck without it :P14:19
nealwazd: Do you know about Woodchuck?14:19
nealwazd: It's a data transfer scheduler14:19
nealwazd: The application registers with the Woodchuck daemon14:20
wazdLilltiger: hmm, that's strange14:20
nealwazd: And Woodchuck starts it when it is a good time to perform an update14:20
wazdneal: interresting, we'll look into it, thanks! :)14:20
tommawazd, what is "Update interval" and "Auto-update on connection" for then=14:21
nealwazd: gPodder, FeedingIt and Khweeteur use it, for example.14:21
djszapiwazd everything is alright'ish :) Bit hang-over :p14:21
Lilltigerwazd: hmm, i guess it's shows the corret weather fo night time fom it seems, so maybe it's just the time that it gets wrong and there for the wrong icon and weather14:22
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lilltiger_irssi on my n9 how nerdy am i!14:26
djszapinot really because you run X :)14:27
lilltiger_run X?14:28
djszapigeek phones do not have Ui come on :)14:28
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lilltiger_ahh true14:28
lilltiger_also i run wincrap on my workstation now14:28
lilltiger_stupid games14:29
djszapiwhy not Gluon ?14:29
djszapithat is cross-platform :p14:29
djszapifree, open and everything :)14:29
wazdneal: wait a second, looks like you have newer version than I do :D14:30
faenildjszapi: because gluon is not 3D ? :D14:31
Lilltigeri am in windows to play game like Deus EX and Two Worlds 2, went back from linux (10years in linux) just to play The Withcher 2, but that gane was horribad :(14:31
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djszapifaenil: well, you can contribute anytime14:32
djszapithe architecture does support 3d.14:32
faenildjszapi: :)14:32
nealwazd: The support is relatively new.  The patches are all in upstream repositories, though.14:32
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djszapifaenil: you know, building a community around it is definitely a plan to eliminate this awkward windows gaming feelings :)14:33
faenildjszapi: I don't think that has anything to do actually...14:34
faenildjszapi: people want windows to use existing games which are only for windows14:34
faenilhow can Gluon help that?14:34
faenilunless you're talking about a future in which software houses will use Gluon to make cross platform games14:35
djszapifaenil: tell me other Qt ecosystem for game creation on non-windows14:35
djszapiofc that is the plan.14:35
djszapiRovio was already considering and other game development companies14:35
djszapidefault game centre in intel appup and the like :)14:35
djszapiprobably in PA, too.14:36
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djszapiwe would not really like to go back where we were 20 years ago14:36
djszapiwith html5 and flash, and webgl ...14:36
faenillol :D14:36
faenilconcerning webgl14:37
faenilhave you tried the new nokia maps with WebGL?14:37
djszapiflash is not concernable object here for games sorry :)14:38
faenilworks much better than the previous version14:38
djszapinot even html or webgl, really sorry :)14:38
faenilwho told it is :D14:38
npmmay i ask stupid question: does the ovi store have any stupid requirements like intel appup where you have to place your your app w/ special stupid name /opt/<org>.<company>.<appname>/...14:41
djszapifaenil: I will demo html5 games on PA though at our booth :p14:41
djszapihopefully Angry Birds lol14:41
npmor can i just use /opt/<appname>/14:41
faenildjszapi: ahahah work is work :D14:41
djszapiin a qtwebkit powered browser on this ExoPC14:41
djszapiso it is kinda Tizen compliant14:42
djszapito show up, qtwebkit can deal with html5 ...14:42
djszapiand well, people like ab :)14:42
npmdjszapi: is tizen compliant!14:42
djszapifaenil: Angry Birds14:43
faeniloh k14:43
djszapinpm: I can trust you :)14:43
npmwell anything is compliant with vapor14:44
djszapifaenil: we will have a weird T-Shirt that me and my friend did :)14:44
faenildjszapi: ahahaha looking forward to seeing it :P14:45
djszapifaenil: I am now wearing our Gluon T-Shirt :)14:45
faenilI want one too!14:46
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faenilI want all the nerd TShirts that I'll see in this event, lol14:46
djszapifaenil: damn..if you say it eaerlier... we have 200 shirts in UK...14:46
faenildjszapi: if you said that you had gluon tshirts earlier xD14:46
djszapione person of the team brought some for this event.14:46
faenillet's hope there will be spare ones :D14:47
djszapiit is not me, but that is our shirt :)14:47
npmso many shirts, someone needs to start a unix-beard modelling agency...14:48
faenilahah :D14:48
djszapifaenil: also, we will get Qt Ambassador shirts at the embassy meetup :p14:49
faenilwell I hope I'll get mine some day, don't want that one now :P14:49
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djszapifaenil: you see, many advantages about contributing to Gluon ... :p14:50
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faenillike, TShirts? XD14:51
cityLightsemmm.... any news on where to buy a N9 ?14:51
djszapifaenil: more to the point, to have an open and free ecosystem for developing and distributing cross-platform games.14:51
faenildjszapi: ;)14:52
djszapifaenil: brought your bike ?14:53
faenildjszapi: nope, it required additional cost14:53
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faenilis there anybody here who uses Qt for Android and has a good knowledge of its current status?14:58
faenilI'd like to know if one thing is doable14:58
djszapiask tomorrow at the unconference day ...14:58
faenilsure :D14:59
djszapiBogDan will not be there though. Also, subscribe for the necessites mailing list and ask ..14:59
faenildjszapi: I want to know if it's doable before getting info and subscribing to lists :D or I'll end up having emails I won't read :)14:59
djszapiyou can filter, and even unsubscribe.15:00
faenilyeah I know :P15:02
djszapiohh so you just like arguing :p15:02
faenilahahah lol, no way :D15:03
djszapifaenil: I will be going to the multithread training on Monday15:04
djszapino care about Ui trainings here, and most of them are ui related.15:04
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djszapithat is my plan, multithread training + unconference day15:04
faenilI see...I need to follow training, but the multithread is interesting too :)15:04
faenillet me check the agenda15:04
djszapiwell, do not mis-read it, unconference day means no plans15:05
djszapibut we will be there, and put an agenda together with relevant slots15:05
djszapiso it is not really like a conference day, more like a qt contributor summit day15:05
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faenilI know ;)15:06
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faenilbut the multithreading training is part of a track, right?15:06
faeniladvanced qt15:06
djszapiyes, that is the only topic I am interested in for now in comparison with Qt Contributor Day.15:06
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faeniland I can't join :(15:06
djszapioh ?15:07
faenilweren't you asked to choose a path for the first day? I was15:07
faeniland advanced qt was alread FULL15:07
faenilso I had to choose one of the remaining options15:07
djszapiI have no clue what I choose.15:07
faeniland chose Programming with Qt Quick15:07
djszapianyways, nobody will check it imho15:08
faenilit should be in your registration email15:08
faenilif I'm not wrong15:08
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djszapior well, actually I think it will be checked.15:08
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griwohoo, found a network cable! :)15:08
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djszapifaenil: hehe, I chose Advanced Qt.15:09
faenildjszapi: :P15:09
* gri also took advanced qt, all others sounded boring15:10
faenilmy Developer Outreach Manager gave me the voucher really late15:10
faenilif only I could choose that..-.-15:10
djszapifaenil: well, it is not a big lost anyways since the videos will probably be published15:10
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djszapido not cry pls :D :D15:10
faenildjszapi : sure ;) don't worry :P15:10
faenilgri: found the cable?15:11
griyes, looked in all cupboards of my brother's flat and found one that was supplied with his router15:12
grisince he seems to have changed the wlan key15:12
grifaenil: so you already did a big walk?15:16
faenilgri: yup...was falling asleep, and I was not allowed to, on the couch in the hall15:17
faenilso I went out...15:17
faeniland the cold did the rest15:17
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griso you got your room now?15:18
faenilnot yet, but I can get it now, yes15:18
faenilI'm still in one of the shared rooms :)15:18
grido they have wlan in the rooms or only lobby?15:20
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faenilgri: no idea15:24
faenilgri: haven't been in the room yet15:24
faenilgoing to check in now... if I won't be back soon, it means there's no wifi there xD15:26
faenilor I have fallen asleep as soon as I have touched the bed, lol15:27
faenilwhich is as likely xD15:27
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jpnurmihmm, is there any way to have a custom IM toolbar for a TextField component in QML?15:34
Venemojpnurmi, what do you mean by "custom IM toolbar"?15:35
jpnurmii cannot see any way to override inputMethodQuery() to be able to return the toolbar id15:35
jpnurmiVenemo: for example the terminal application provides a custom input method toolbar15:35
Venemojpnurmi, there is an example for a "Custom VKB" in one of the example applications15:36
jpnurmii don't want to implement the whole vkb. just to provide a couple of buttons that should be placed in the toolbar :)15:37
jpnurmithat "custom vkb" replaces the whole sip, doesn't it?15:37
jpnurmiseems so. lovely red and blue custom vkb's in the example :)15:38
Venemowell, check the source of meego-terminal15:39
Venemomaybe it will give you a clue15:39
jpnurmii did. the problem is that there is no way to do that in QML15:39
jpnurmii cannot override QGraphicsItem::inputMethodQuery() as i said :)15:39
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jpnurmione is supposed to register the toolbar layout (an xml file) by MInputMethodState::registerAttributeExtension(), and then return the corresponding id for inputMethodQuery(M::InputMethodAttributeExtensionIdQuery)15:40
Venemojpnurmi, I don't have enough expertise to answer this, but you could try asking achipa or villev15:41
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faenilback xD15:47
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faenilgri: wifi in bedroooms xD15:50
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grifaenil: wow, this is uncommon - the youth hostels where I was never had wlan on the rooms :)15:51
faenilthis hostel rocks :P15:53
faenil11€ and has everything :D15:53
faenilit's very nice too :)15:53
grisounds good15:53
faenilI had to buy a padlock xD15:53
* gri sits in the freezing cold since my brother left the windows open for one week ...15:54
faenilvery warm in here :P15:55
grivery cool since I was lazy and left most of my things in the car15:57
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faenilgri: lol15:58
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faenilgri: so, have you got any plan?16:06
grinot really16:06
griit's 30 minutes walking from here to your location (without using public transport)16:06
faenilI need some sleep...16:06
grithen get some :)16:07
faenilwe can meet when I wake up if that's ok to you :)16:07
griI have ps3, laptop etc. here so it won't get boring while you sleep16:07
faenileheheh :D16:07
faenilok, I'll be back in chat when I'm awake then, ok? ;)16:08
faenilcya :)16:08
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artemmaI am trying to create a fullscreen Page (later I want add tools floating into the Page similar to Harmattan's Gallery app), yet somehow I cannot get rid of the tools rect :)17:03
jpnurmiartemma: hi :) you could use PageStackWindow.showToolBar17:10
artemmaI just figured that was due to yet another fix for making Symbian and Harmattan comps be alike :)17:11 is merely toolbar content, not the toolbar itself17:11
artemmaDesktop/Symbian version was forcing pageStack to be a smaller size so that toolbar would fit17:11
artemmaThing is most of my pages should actually have a toolbar (and page should have a little less space for itself), but one page is full screen17:12
artemmawith the toolbar popping in-out on tap like in Gallery17:12
artemmaBTW, Window doesn't have any showToolBar, that's yet another "small difference between Symbian and Harmattan" components :)17:13
jpnurmithat's what you get when you don't have a shared code base... :p17:14
artemmadid I hear that is what you get when you want to use Qt for cross-platform apps? :)17:15
artemmawell, actually it's not that bad. Most of the time I am able to isolate platform specifics just fine. This time I forgot what was where17:16
artemmawhat's a real pity is that [to my understanding] there's no good official example on how to create a nice app that will work fine platforms with different set of components available.17:17
artemmalooks totally like Symbian and Harmattan components were developed in isolation with ppl meeting only for negotiating about common API maybe17:17
javispedroQt and QtQuick have little in common..17:18
javispedroplain Qt was way more "crossplatform"17:18
javispedrowell, I used the bad word, cause Qt Quick is also übercrossplatform as long asyou dont' want to look or feel native17:19
artemmaI don't buy Attila's view on that17:22
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artemmathing is you guys actually managed to make components almost good for being well reusable on many platforms17:23
artemmathat is way the small nagging differences are so painful17:23
artemmaand no #ifdef-like stuff to save me17:23
artemma*that is why*17:23
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* javispedro sighs and suggests looking at WebOS' Enyo.17:25
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artemmaHei, is QML Image always positioning the loaded image centered in the available space?17:41
* artemma was writing code to center what he assumed to top-left positioned, but.. experiments seem to show everything's already centered17:42
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M4rtinKartemma: doesn't it depend on how are its anchors set ?17:53
artemmaM4rtinK: doesn't seem so17:53
* artemma is now playing with rotation. Amazingly Image rotates hell knows around what despite transformOrigin set to Item.Center17:54
artemmaoh, it rotates around Item.Right, funny17:55
M4rtinKweird - well, good to know there might be issues17:55
M4rtinKmight as well run into it with my manga/comic book viewer :)17:56
artemmawell, it maybe somehow related to that I am trying to rotate a resized image. Maybe it tries to rotate around original center that just happens to be close to Item.Right of the resized image17:57
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artemmathat is maybe rotation happens before resizing17:57
DocScrutinizermaybe anchor doesn't move on resizing17:59
artemmaI removed anchors for now17:59
artemmaIt looks like the key is the way how I resize it. Just setting width/height resizes using top-left as the origin17:59
artemmaif I want center to stay center, I probably need to go for Scale18:00
artemmahopefully I manage to do it precise enough not to have ugly rounding pixels at the edges18:00
DocScrutinizersounds all like real fun18:01
artemmaThough actually automatic image resizing could take transformOrigin into account18:01
DocScrutinizerresp poor documetation18:01
DocScrutinizer[2011-10-22 16:20:49] <javispedro> when nothing in the documentation makes sense, it's time to drill into the source.18:04
artemmawell, maybe just transform property would be good enough. There I can use Rotation and specify the rotation origin precisely18:05
DocScrutinizeryou know the documentation is crap - when you can't tell if a behaviour is a normal feature or rather a bug18:06
artemmayep, Rotation with origin set worked fine18:06
* artemma now tried to combine several rotation-resizing effects he needs. Let's see how it works18:07
artemmaoh no.. it first rotates and then resizes to width/height.. Back to the drawing board18:08
DocScrutinizerback to the editor for writing better docs that clearly state this fact18:09
DocScrutinizera toolkit is just as useful as the docs that it ships with18:10
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DocScrutinizerthat's why so many ultra-comprehensive toolkits/libs are useless when it comes to real work getting done with them. They just look fine for the absolute middle-of-the-road hello world usecase18:14
DocScrutinizerwhile, when getting your hands dirty to the elbows with stuff like "this borderline should be a pixel stronger" / "how would we rotate that text 80°?" etc you will soon come to the notion you better used a low level toolkit rather than this ultra-mighty stuff that has a non-customizable template for everything18:16
* javispedro lols at
berndhsindeed, in many (most?) bug tracking systems, the reporter can't tell if anyone is reading the report18:19
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javispedroit does remind me of the Fixed In Fremantle stories..18:19
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: priceless18:20
DocScrutinizerand yes, exactly what happened to my bugs reported against KDE318:20
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: s/fremantle/meego/18:21
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* DocScrutinizer pondered 2 minutes whether to place the bookmark to CADT under "Media -> fun-bits" or under "tecdoc"18:24
* DocScrutinizer finally decided that'S no fun at all18:24
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berndhsof course, redesign from scratch is always better, as seen in the only operational human space flight program today :)18:27
javispedroah, we do have one of those?18:27
berndhswell, "we" in the broader sense of humanity do18:28
MohammadAGholidays over, time to start swearing at DHL18:28
javispedroMohammadAG: still waiting for the N950?18:28
MohammadAGjavispedro, yep18:28
javispedroat least they confirmed they have sent you one?18:28
MohammadAGjavispedro, Nokia sent it18:28
javispedroI mean, all these talk about not even having spares..18:28
MohammadAGit's israel that's screwing me over18:28
berndhsMohammadAG: maybe you should have walked to Finland, could have been faster in the end18:29
MohammadAGthey sent it on Oct 718:29
javispedrohey, don't complain18:29
MohammadAGberndhs, crawled is a better word18:29
javispedrothe current estimate for getting back my VGA card is 2 months18:29
MohammadAGjavispedro, with express shipping?18:29
RST38hmooo gentlemen18:30
javispedromoo RST38h18:30
MohammadAG3 days to travel across continents18:30
RST38hjavispedro: wannarotfl?18:31
MohammadAGtwo weeks and it still hasn't crossed 100km in one damn country18:31
MohammadAG70 to be exact18:31
javispedroRST38h: shoot18:31
RST38hMohammad: Are theystill determining the correct amount of bribe?18:31
MohammadAGRST38h, no, they're measuring the radius of the explosion it'd cause if it overheats again18:31
RST38hjavispedro: the beta2 platform sdk produces packages that post-beta2 firmwarecannotinstall18:32
RST38hAegis rejecting fmsx_3.5.12-1_armel.deb: var/lib/dpkg/info/fmsx._aegis not installed by the package18:33
RST38haegis aborting dpkg -- all listed package files rejected18:33
RST38hjavispedro: see above18:33
RST38hjavispedro: I have not been able to find any *._aegis files in the file system. So, it is some kind of a fuckup18:34
MohammadAGI'm on hold18:34
javispedroRST38h: are you upgrading the package? Maybe you need to purge it beforehand?18:36
RST38hjavispedro: I will try18:36
javispedroFrom what I read here seems that beta3 is kinda fsckd-up.18:36
RST38hjavispedro: I have found no Skype UI there, which is weird18:37
macmaNyep there isnt18:37
macmaNwhere is it huh?18:37
MohammadAG"The fastest shipping service" <- lmao18:37
MohammadAGRST38h, do you want a skype UI?18:38
* RST38h bows to MohammadAG18:38
* MohammadAG bows to N9s on RDA18:39
* javispedro bows to.....18:39
* RST38h bows to the Tentacled One for it is all His plan18:39
RST38hjavispedro: nah, purging then installing from scratch ends up with the same message18:40
MohammadAGwhat about purging aegis and attempting to install18:40
javispedropush the binary package somewhere18:40
RST38hwant to do a diff? a moment18:41
javispedroeither way, I don't have beta3 so no idea.18:41
javispedrooh, I just got scared for a moment, thought Gentoo was pushing Gnome3 to me, but it's just another 2.x release.18:42
* RST38h gets scared at the mention of Gentoo18:42
MohammadAGhe said your package will be delivered tomorrow18:42
MohammadAGthen he said please hold18:43
macmaNRST38h: gentoo rox :>18:43
* MohammadAG wonders18:43
RST38hjavispedro: both fmsx packages at
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javispedrofails to install on beta2 too18:44
RST38hjavispedro: so, it looks like a beta2 sdk issue18:45
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RST38hjavispedro: (yes, I installed it from scratch)18:45
javispedroit works on aegis-less18:45
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RST38hyea, I know it is an aegis manifest related fuckup18:45
MohammadAGwhat isn't these days18:45
MohammadAGthe US economy fuckups are related to aegis18:46
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javispedrothe problem seems to be that the package includes the hash for the manifest but there's no manifest18:46
javispedroso yeah, toolchain fsck up..18:46
javispedrosomething's weird, Aegis-Manifest: included18:47
javispedroRST38h: are you doing anything related to aegis in the debian/rules file?18:48
RST38hjavispedro: rules file just calls dh.18:48
RST38hjavispedro: I also tried a more complex rules file generated by create-project script, but no doughnut there either18:49
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javispedrono idea at this point, but it "should not happen" (TM), I've been packaging aegis manifest less packages for a while using the beta2 sdk18:50
RST38hMohammad: (also see Zipang the anime for military-geek-fappable Aegis depiction)18:50
javispedro(latest one was pocketsphinx..)18:50
RST38hjavispedro: still happens somehow18:50
javispedroRST38h: export DH_VERBOSE=1 on rules and see if you get any hint.....18:52
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javispedrothe file technically "exists" by the time it gets hashed, but it either doesn't get packaged or gets deleted..18:53
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RST38hjavispedro: looks like the pre-beta2 sdk simply set aegis manifest to "empty" in control19:08
RST38hjavispedro: the beta2 sdk tries including the aegis manifest and screws up19:09
RST38hjavispedro: the manifest is actually present if you ar -tvf package.deb - it is there at the top level19:09
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javispedrowhat. the. hell.19:10
RST38hjavispedro: ar -xvf both debs into separate directories, then tar -xvzf their control/data parts there19:11
javispedroyes, I was reading the autogenerated manifest.19:11
RST38hjavispedro then run diff between two directories19:11
* RST38h can try forcing Android-Manifest: empty in the control file19:11
javispedrothe fun thing is that according to that your package should no longer be manifest-free.19:12
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faenilgri: slept little and bad, but here I am xD19:52
grifaenil: atleast it was warm ... here it's still freezing cold even though all radiators are running19:52
faenilgri: ehehhe yeah it's warm at least :)19:53
griI saw there is a bar inside your hostel :)19:54
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faenilyes a nice one :)19:54
faenildid you walk into my bedroom? lol19:55
grino, on the website19:55
griI just walked to my car to get a pullover since I only had a shirt before19:55
faeniloh ok xD19:55
faenileh I bet you're cold...19:56
griso is your room crowded?19:57
faenilyeah but nice people :)19:58
faenilI was woken up hundred of times19:58
faenilbut they tried to be quiet19:58
faeniland move as few things as possible :)19:58
grisounds nice indeed19:59
faenilyeah :)19:59
faenilfreaking headache...argh...19:59
griyou have aspirin with you?20:00
faenilofc not...20:00
faenilbut that's just coz I'm tired..20:00
faenilno big issue ;)20:00
griwell, I got tablets for headache but I won't take pills from other people :P20:00
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faenilahahah no don't bother ;)20:01
gri"oh sorry, this was dope not aspirin" :D20:01
javispedroI was going to say "oh, it's funny, I didn't receive a single mail today" hell yes I did, the N950 just failed to fetch them..20:03
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RST38hjavispedro: CASE SOLVED20:04
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javispedrosurprise me20:04
faeniljavispedro: lol20:04
grifaenil: did you find a good place for food while walking around?20:04
faenilgri: nope...I was thinking about tasting german kebab, don't know what you think about it, or have better ideas :)20:05
griyou mean the "turkish kebab" for germans? sized like a double-whopper? :)20:06
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faenilehm...don't know what you mean xD20:06
faenilsomething like this xD20:07
grilooks the same20:07
* gri eats all kinds of food, so it's your choice20:09
RST38hjavispedro: rm -f debian/packagename.aegis; touch debian/packagename.aegis20:09
RST38hjavispedro: this will *disable* aegis manifest generation, which is broken anyway20:09
javispedrothe problem is, if they added it, it probably means a future fw release will require that token20:10
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faenilgri: let's go for it then :D if you happen to think about something better, please let me know ;)20:10
RST38hjavispedro: additionally, you can fix it by somehow adding packagename.aegis to the controltar.gz file inside the package20:10
faenilRST38h: working on modded kernel?20:10
RST38hfaenil: working on fucked up platform sdk from nokia.20:10
RST38hjavispedro: So, ideally, I need a way to tell dpkg "this .aegis file goes into the same place with postrm/postinst/etc"20:11
grifaenil: so should I come to your hostel?20:11
javispedroRST38h: my SDK installation doesn't currently triger those tokens when finding pa_simple_new so no idea how to reproduce and at which stage it happens20:11
faenilgri: we can meet midway :)20:11
faenilgri: don't know what's better, you're the native :P20:12
javispedroas said I think I'll need to entirely purge and redo it with the latest versions some day...20:12
grifaenil: I don't live in munich, usally I only use a car here :)20:12
RST38hjavispedro: just be aware how easily fuckupable things are nowadays20:13
faenilgri: okay so, if you're using by car, you could come here, otherwise we'll meet somewhere in the middle :)20:13
griI'd use public transport (finding a parking lot in the inner city is impossible)20:14
RST38hjavispedro: my only hope is that once they let all platsec people go, nobody will know what to do with this garbage so it will stay the same20:14
faenilgri: okay, so let's meet somewhere in the middle :D20:14
grichoose the middle20:15
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faenilgri: mmm20:17
RST38hHow do I import a qml package WITHOUT specifying its version???20:17
artemmaRST38h: I don't think it's possible20:17
RST38hI do not care if it is impossible or not, just need to know how to do it =)20:19
faenilgri: if you're using public transport, I guess Karlsplatz is the best bet20:19
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faenilotherwise, where the obelisk is?20:19
griwe could go for the obelisk even though I don't think there's anything to eat next to it :)20:20
faenilok so :P20:20
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svuorelamunich directions? :)20:21
faenilyup xD20:21
faeniltrying to meet and eat a kebab, lol20:21
faenilare you in munich too? :)20:21
svuorelayep. have been in munich around 12 hours20:21
faenilwanna join us? :)20:22
faenil(I feel you're vegetarian, lol)20:22
svuorelaI think I have a different dinner appointment.20:22
svuorelabut no. I'm not vegetarian as such, but I don't mind vegetarian food.20:23
svuorelawith added bacon20:23
faenilok no problem then ;)20:23
grifaenil: throw a coin for public transport or walking ... but I have to walk soon otherwise I'll be a ice block20:24
faenilgri: please, decide xD I have no clue where places to eat are in munich? it was all closed today20:24
faenilI go for walking :)20:24
svuorelayo ushould go to the hofbrauhaus20:24
svuorelathat looked great. and german.20:25
gridepends how much faenil will spend :)20:25
faenileheheh but that's for drinking isn't it? anyway, I'll go there for sure before coming back to Italy .920:25
faenilgri: faenil poor, lol20:25
berndhshofbrauhaus has large quantities of food20:26
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faenilgri: damn we can't spend half day deciding what to do xD20:28
faenillet's get practical xD20:28
griif you want it cheap, we meet at the obelisk and walk in direction to marienplatz (where the hofbräuhaus is near)20:28
grithere should be some places to eat and we could take a look at the prices of hofbräuhaus20:29
faenilok let's go for it, otherwise we'll spend the evening looking for places :D20:29
grido you have a mobile number for me?20:29
grito not get lost :)20:30
faenilhope the map will guide me till there .D20:30
faenilgri: leaving? :P20:31
grifaenil: I'll ring your phone, don't pick up20:31
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grido you look somehow italian-recoginizable? :P20:32
faenilblack jeans, black-darkgray jacket20:33
griok, I assume not many people to be at the obelisk at that time so it should be easy20:33
grifor me: blue jeans, black jacket20:33
* artemma senses the grand test of Nokia Maps coming. Or is it going to be a Google Maps test? :)20:34
faenildoesn't Nokia Maps require internet?20:34
faenilI don't have data plan :D20:34
faenilgot tourists map here :P20:34
artemmafaenil, are you kidding me?20:34
artemmaThat is THE selling point of Nokia Maps - it works offline :)20:34
faenillol :D20:35
svuorelayou can download for dfree20:35
artemmathat is if you download maps before you are offline20:35
svuorelaI did that yesterdays. of bavaria. 120mb20:35
faenilHave never used it after N8, where internet connection was required..20:35
faenilwonderful, let's download then xD20:35
artemmafaenil: It was never required on N8 :D20:35
faenil:O lol20:36
artemmathing is you do need to download maps somehow. It can happen online bit-by-bit or you can download the whole map pack for Bavaria or whichever region20:36
artemmaOviMaps is the same as Nokia Maps20:36
faenilyeah I know20:36
artemmanowadays you don't even need to use your pc for it20:36
faenilyeah know that20:37
artemmalook into the Update in the Maps app20:37
artemmait can download whole map over wifi20:37
faenilstrange...I remember this thing perfectly, doesn't matter anyway :D20:37
grifaenil: from the picture you look taller than me ... let's see :)20:37
faenilworks offline? better ;)20:37
artemmaor 3g if you've got flat data plan20:37
artemmaone thing that can make it look like it needs connection is that it asks for it.20:37
faenilgri: I'm 1,8320:38
grifaenil: ok, you're taller.20:38
artemmaconnection is needed for A-GPS to work and for fresh map updates. But both things are perfectly optional20:38
MohammadAGso after a 30 minute call with DHL20:38
MohammadAGmy N950's being delivered tomorrow20:38
MohammadAGit only took two and a half weeks20:38
artemmaMohammadAG: congrats!20:39
grifaenil: weren't the italians usally smaller? :)20:39
faenilgri: never heard about that :P20:39
javispedroMohammadAG: you had to give some of your rather large gold reselve as bribe?20:40
MohammadAGjavispedro, they expect me to pay 469 NIS20:40
MohammadAGabout $15020:40
MohammadAGfor customs20:41
grifaenil: ok, I start walking20:41
grisee you then20:41
artemmaMohammadAG: it's not even your device, you just loan it :)20:41
javispedrothat is quite the bribe.20:41
faenilgri: I start downloading maps xD20:41
MohammadAGartemma, he got confused when I said loan/gift20:41
MohammadAGhe's an Israeli, his english isn't that good20:41
faenilartemma: it's taking ages to download maps catalog...xD20:42
artemmaMohammadAG: Imagine, Nokia wants you to return it next week for breaking some "you don't talk about bugs publicly" clause :)20:42
* artemma just started downloading Finnish map to his N95020:42
* MohammadAG begs for Israeli maps20:42
artemmafaenil: well, you do need connection at least once if you need maps :)20:42
MohammadAGSpringboard crashed, for the 10th time20:43
faenilartemma: I know :P I'm using hostel's wifi :P20:43
MohammadAGI _HATE_ iOS now20:43
artemmafaenil, I meant you do need a *working* connection at least once :)20:44
MohammadAGspringboard bootstraps all apps20:44
MohammadAGwhen it crashes it'ls like the whole device is rebootedf20:44
MohammadAGkinda like killall meegotouchhome20:44
faenilartemma: it's a fast one :P20:44
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MohammadAGcool, now facebook somehow knows I know Jaffa20:45
faenilMap application does not answer - do you want to close it?20:45
faenilvery reliable Map app...20:46
MohammadAGbetter than the iPhone app for sure20:46
javispedroMap application sucks -- Kick it?20:47
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artemmahmm, interesting20:47
artemmaoh well, they should improve Maps then20:47
javispedroMohammadAG: ah, you got an iPhone! wonderful!20:47
faenilcan't get it to download this catalog...20:48
* artemma personally uses Nokia Maps always, but just naturally knows workarounds for when Maps don't work 20:48
MohammadAGjavispedro, iPod touch20:48
faenilstops working when I try to20:48
MohammadAGjavispedro, just needed it for some apps20:48
MohammadAGbus timetable, bank app etc20:48
MohammadAGit's just an 8GB cheapass model20:48
javispedrosounds like webby stuff.20:48
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MohammadAGjavispedro, yeah20:49
MohammadAGplus I need google maps20:49
MohammadAGNokia Maps has no Israel maps20:49
MohammadAGMappero's good but it's a bit slow and clunky20:49
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faenilwell, Im leaving, or gri will kill me :D20:50
faenilcya guys :)20:50
grii already walk20:50
MohammadAGpfft, I started walking when I was 1 or something20:50
faenillol he's still here xD20:50
faenildamn smartphones20:50
faenilcya there gri20:51
MohammadAGjavispedro, gapless playback is awesome20:51
MohammadAGbut the iPhone cheats20:51
MohammadAGiTunes preprocesses gapless info and saves it on the iPhone20:51
javispedro"gapless info"?20:52
MohammadAGwhich tracks can be played gapless20:52
MohammadAGiTunes analyzes all tracks20:52
javispedroah, you mean it removes silence from the track itself?20:52
MohammadAGit doesn't play all songs gapless20:52
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MohammadAGif you have a playlist20:53
MohammadAGit doesn't play it gapless20:53
MohammadAGbut with mixes/songs that can be played gapless without noticing it, it does that20:53
MohammadAGthe PS3 for example plays all songs gapless20:53
MohammadAGthis only plays the ones that should be played gapless20:53
MohammadAGit's smart about it (well, iTunes is)20:53
MohammadAGthe iPhone's pretty dumb20:54
* javispedro never thought gapless was such a hard problem, winamp has been doing it20:54
MohammadAGdepends how the implementation is20:54
MohammadAGit's very good on the iPhone20:54
MohammadAGit's half baked on the PS320:54
MohammadAGnot that good on rhythmbox20:54
MohammadAG(crossfade plugin)20:54
javispedroHow do you measure the quality?20:55
MohammadAGrhythmbox has a very noticeable gap20:55
MohammadAGyou can hear it switching songs20:55
javispedrobut you said you are using crossfading?20:55
MohammadAGthe PS3 lowers the volume of the song and raises the volume of the next one20:55
javispedrohow is that even possible =)20:55
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MohammadAGit's like 0.1s20:56
MohammadAGthe iPhone does it in a way you don't notice it even switching songs20:56
javispedroyou are setting crossfade time to 0s or something like that?20:56
javispedro(in rhythmbox)20:56
javispedrogapless in my dictionary is a) avoid delay switching tracks b ) remove silence at being/end of a track20:58
javispedrowinamp does a) spectacularly even with weirdo input plugins (such as some chiptune plugins...), and b less spectacularly, but it also does a bit (depends even on the buffer size from the output plugin)20:59
MohammadAGjavispedro, lemme up a video20:59
* RST38h is happy, temporarily, until nokians break something else21:04
MohammadAGthere won't be anything else to break21:05
RST38hoh just watch 'e,21:07
javispedrothought It was going to be more impressive =)21:08
javispedrotry winamp ;P21:08
MohammadAGjavispedro, sec, lemme show you another one :p21:09
javispedrothe thing is, that, as said, I don't know what's so hard about it. albeit I'm reading that for mp3 this might depend on the encoder21:11
javispedroso I guess that what iTunes is doing is some kind of reencoding.21:11
javispedrodunno, though.21:11
MohammadAGwe have continuous autofocus in camera-ui apparently21:15
MohammadAG(cssu one)21:15
MohammadAGjavispedro, feel like patching mafw to support gapless playback? :P21:16
javispedroclosed source now21:16
MohammadAGright now it constructs a new playbin2 instance for each song afaik21:16
MohammadAGI said mafw not qmafw :p21:16
MohammadAGbtw I don't see why qmafw can't be rewritten21:17
MohammadAGport libmafw21:17
MohammadAGmake a Qt wrapper called libqmafw21:17
MohammadAGuse the same header files21:17
javispedroI don't know what's changed.21:17
MohammadAGand the same replies21:17
MohammadAGit shouldn't matter if the calls are the same21:17
javispedrotbh I would love to try, should make a note to point my "loose cannon with aiming capabilities" to it next time..21:19
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RST38hOk, resubmitted 8 items to Ovi Store QA21:21
artemmaWhy don't my TabButtons don't change pages on click? I added some onClicked code for it, but come on, that's an ugly workaround21:22
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artemmaor is pageStack incompatible with Tabs?21:23
MohammadAGuse Pages on one PageStack21:23
artemmaMy app [logically] consists of two tabs: MainView and Settings21:24
artemmafrom main view you can get one level deeper (and get back)21:24
artemmaI used page stack with buttons, but now I think built-in Tab navigation should work better as essentially I have two tabs21:25
* artemma is reading about TabGroups.. ok, there's more than just telling system that this tab is for this page21:26
artemmaIs there some example of mixing tabs and pagestack?21:28
MohammadAGPageStack is about having a stack of pages, not tabs21:29
MohammadAGbut is what you're looking for in the widgets gallery?21:29
artemmaI want one of the tabs have a pagestack21:29
artemmaone of the pages shows many images and click on the image should open the big image viewer, Back - gets you back21:29
MohammadAGno idea21:30
MohammadAGI got the idea21:30
MohammadAGdoesn't the fb app do this?21:30
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RST38hMeanwhile: many employees of Silicon Valley giants like Google, Apple, Yahoo and Hewlett-Packard send their children to the Waldorf School in Los Altos where the school's chief teaching tools are anything but high-tech: pens and paper, knitting needles and, occasionally, mud. Not a computer to be found. No screens at all. Computers are not allowed in the classroom, and the school even frowns on their use at home.21:39
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berndhsRST38h: interesting21:43
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* artemma can't figure why TabGroup draws one of the tabs on top of another one22:29
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artemmaIs it possible at all to use TabGroup with PageStackWindow?22:42
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ieatlintshould be, but i've never tried myself22:50
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artemmaI switched to Window, looks like it works not that bad on harmattan22:51
MohammadAGwhat about Page22:52
artemmaonly one problem for now: my TabGroup show black rectangle until the first tab button click :)22:52
ieatlintpost your code snippet for declaring the tabgroup22:52
louisdkHi. Is Harmattan really more open source than Android?22:53
artemmaieatlint: here it is
Stskeepslouisdk: .. not really22:53
artemmathough my problem can be around it. I am in a kind'a prototyping mode, so a bit of a mess around22:53
ieatlintyeah, that seems to match even the example code... dunno22:56
louisdkStskeeps: Because of the close sourced Swipe UI?22:56
ieatlintalthough your anchors might be screwed22:56
Stskeepslouisdk: and apps22:57
ieatlintthe parent of mainTab is he TabGroup.. right?22:57
artemmaieatlint: yes22:57
artemmahey, another question. If you use a Window (and not PageStackWindow) how does it know what to show in a tab based interface?22:57
louisdkStkeeps: Okay. Looks like my next phone after N900 will be Nexus Prime.22:58
artemmais sizing TabGroup to whole window size enough?22:58
ieatlintthat seems... odd... might be worth trying to find a working example22:58
artemmaactually yes. Now I simplified the code enough to match some basic example :)22:59
artemmahey! You can wrap TabGroup with a Page!22:59
artemmathat may be it22:59
mjacan mc-tool (?) be used to set up IM services supported by telepathy but not by default on the N9/N950?22:59
artemmathan PageStackWindow maybe works22:59
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artemmaand this worked23:02
dm8tbrmja: yes, see the known xmpp workaround23:08
mjadm8tbr: cheers23:08
mjadm8tbr: there are some services like yahoo im and msn(?) that are not based on xmpp though23:08
mjadm8tbr: but are supported by telepathy, imo23:08
dm8tbronly downside you can't message from individual contact page, but you will see all contacts in the messages application23:09
mjato my kwoledge, I mean23:09
dm8tbrmja: those plugins you'd need to build and add yourself23:09
mjadm8tbr: yes, I used that hack for gtalk in beta2 :)23:09
mjadm8tbr: ach.. sounds too difficult for me23:09
dm8tbrmja: I get around this by having _one_ xmpp account and transports :)23:10
dm8tbrmakes my life a lot easier as I have usually 2-3 xmpp clients open concurrently23:10
dm8tbrwould be a b*Tch with all those IM accounts out of which most don't support-multi-logon23:10
* artemma is so sick finetuning all the freaking small details between harmattan and symbian components23:18
mjaindeed.. why oh why23:20
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Hq`a new version available :)23:23
* dm8tbr tried one yesterday and it was quite nice23:24
dm8tbrI must try it on the n9, the n950 I know I can just unfold ;)23:26
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Hq`the new version has some quite important bugfixes affecting screen/irssi usage23:33
LilltigerHq`: why is there ö and ä but not å?23:40
Hq`it didn't fit in and I never need it :D23:43
Hq`anyway, I'll try to make the layout configurable at some point23:44
rantomHq`: Replace comma (,) with å?23:45
LilltigerHq`: well alt+A could be ä and ctrl+alt+a could be å for example23:45
Lilltigeror alt+ one of the arrows for etach of åäö23:46
Lilltigeror wait no..23:46
Lilltigerirssi uses alt+arrows23:46
Lilltigerur just put them all on the same button, like ä, ctrl+ä=å,  alt+ä=ö23:48
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