IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-10-13

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djszapiHi! Is the package hicolor-icon-them available in the public sdk, repositories and so forth ?00:05
javispedroseemingly not00:06
djszapiweird, why it is not published ..00:08
djszapiok, I put it onto c-obs until it is released by the SDK team, and we can delete it from the c-obs after the clash with the "official" version.00:16
javispedrodjszapi: btw, I'm happy to report that "open mode" does work in beta2 :D00:22
merlin1991djszapi: mind if I query you about the kde sprint in november?00:26
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DocScrutinizer51javispedro: who's going to pick up on the daunting task of maintaining FU-Aegis-kernel now?00:36
DocScrutinizer51aka fua-pk00:36
javispedroI can keep on doing stock builds, but not a PK itself00:37
DocScrutinizer51hmm, but it's the PK stuff (though harm flavour) that's really interesting ;-)00:38
javispedronever been a fan of kitchensink kernels, I usually make my own smaller ones00:38
* javispedro is a gentoo user , it shows ;P00:39
DocScrutinizer51well, getting rid of paegis is probably the ultimate best thing of fua-pk anyway00:39
javispedrothe warranty warning might scare people away, though00:41
javispedrobtw, can someone with ??_en locale take a picture of it and publish it?00:41
javispedroof the warning, I mean00:41
javispedroit seems to depend on the locale chosen on first boot00:41
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Corsaccan people on harmattan check if it supports syncml?00:54
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kgutteridgethp: if I want to include several databases (and therefore change name) do you know how I can include the .db files01:03
kgutteridgethp: so they can be referenced something like this db.setDatabaseName(QCoreApplication::applicationDirPath()+"/qml/firstdatabase.db");01:04
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DocScrutinizer51javispedro: good, I've chosen en locale, am on beta1 still though. wonder if the kernel will work with it01:10
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: obviously not, the changes came with beta2 =)01:11
DocScrutinizer51most likely not, due to modules01:11
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rcggreat work javispedro!!01:11
javispedronot much work here :)01:11
rcgjust hit refresh on that aegis thread :D01:12
DocScrutinizer51well, I could -flash-only NOLO01:12
rcgjavispedro: well, yeah.. i think many people contributed there but you seem to be that point where everything converges01:13
rcgthats actually the best news since week when it comes to maemo01:14
rcgas this suddenly "unlocks" all the stuff we were being locked out due to aegis01:14
rcg*err meego of course01:14
rcglol kinda late here ;)01:14
javispedrothere are many cons though, like the warranty warning, requiring a reflash to swap between modes, etc.01:15
javispedrobut yes, this is good news I think.01:15
rcgyeah.. but imho overall the good news outweigh01:15
DocScrutinizer51guess what's first concern about providing it with fua-pk01:16
DocScrutinizer51overclocking, OMFG01:16
rcgand maybe there will be more improvement overtime...01:16
rcg*over time01:16
javispedroDocScrutinizer51: I guess that it's now clear why the warning is there.01:16
rcghehe.. "do not try this at home ..." advertisment01:17
rcgah well.. shoulda go to bed.. my typing keeps getting worse01:17
rcgbtw. DocScrutinizer51 is this also the key to your usb host mode stuff?01:18
DocScrutinizer51javispedro: yep, and thank God (or elop, whomver) for that01:19
DocScrutinizer51well, one down on obstacles01:20
rcgbut a major one i suppose?01:20
javispedroconsidering this is the first I hear of a custom kernel booting in harm...01:23
SpeedEviljavispedro: Does it require a reflash, or can you boot it from PC?01:27
javispedroI am currently booting from PC01:27
javispedrothere's something very weird here01:27
* SpeedEvil wonders about a usb-key-thing that flashes.01:27
javispedrodespite kernel aegis being disabled, I still can't dmesg01:29
rcgbtw... warranty is for sissies.. considering that n950 comes with no warranty at all and propably >50% of all n9 buyers are getting some shipment from foreign countries for which probably not even nokia knows how to handle warranty requests properly01:29
* javispedro still doesn't understand many parts of aegis..01:30
javispedroaiui, "open mode" is a purely userspace thing, it just changes behaviour of userspace apps using libcreds01:32
javispedrofrom the kernel side, it just allows you to kill the validator01:32
rcghmm ic.. but still you got movement in a before seemingly solid construction01:33
rcganyways.. i seriously gotta hit the sack.. cya'll01:34
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SpeedEvilIt's 'always' been said there will be an open mode.01:34
SpeedEvilIt's just that this is the first revelation that it's probably possible to implement.01:35
javispedroopen mode was until now used internally, enabled via r&d cert01:35
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faenilgood evening (even if it's past midnight here xD)01:38
javispedrowith it you can now theoretically plainly rm validator-init, which checked the hashes of core binaries, and instead of MALFing, it will go ahead and boot01:38
javispedroproblem with trying that is that if it doesn't go ahead I'll have to reflash :)01:39
faeniljavispedro: is that what you were talking about this afternoon? "I'm in the middle of something interesting"01:41
faenilnice :)01:43
DocScrutinizerwell, what we got is: custom kernel running, HARM rootfs not completely blowing chunks on boot right away, *some* apps confirmed to still work with such a tainted kernel, accli detecting that kernel is tainted and documenting this via "open mode" response, 2 or 3 commands not throwing "Error.AccessDenied: Rejected send message, 3 matched rules" or similar crap. But we still got no proper official way to shut down aegis and enter a lemme-01:43
DocScrutinizercall-it clean linux mode01:43
javispedroDocScrutinizer: whatever is preventing dmesg is on the kernel, which means I'm not worried.01:44
javispedromore problematic would have been if we had to hack individual userspace apps, each with its little checks01:44
javispedro(and as I said I didn't want to go "there")01:44
DocScrutinizersure, we pwned the kernel thus the system, but we got a terribly messed up system in front of us, with no straight way to go to clean linux mode01:45
javispedrosince rd mode is used internally, I guess that what remains of aegis is there because they use it for either debugging aegis itself or as a "reminder of how the device will act"01:45
javispedroso killing that is probably a one line away too.01:45
javispedronothing is pwned01:46
javispedroenvision a single if (unsigned_kernel) malf() on diverse binaries of the system, or refusal to access to existing aegisfs partitions (they are encrypted; if i'm reading them means aegis is "giving me the keys", so to speak)01:47
DocScrutinizerthat's what I said in my "modulo the fact that Nokia can decide to go one round further in that cat&mouse game and revoke/patch anything any time they want."01:48
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javispedrothat's true, my hope is that with the noise that's been made they'd think twice before doing that.01:49
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (reading aegis-fs) that's why I asked you about ls -l /etc/ssl/certs|wc -l and was very amazed it was still possible on open-mode01:50
javispedrome too01:50
DocScrutinizerthis would actually mean we pwned the TPM01:51
SpeedEvilWell - strictly speaking, it means it was turned off in beta2?01:52
DocScrutinizeryou can fake the normal mode when you have full control over the kernel, so if (unsigned_kernel) malf() is moot. What we can't get back is a TPM that got locked down, and it seems we still own it01:52
DocScrutinizeror sth in aegis is terribly odd implemented01:53
MohammadAGjavispedro, you pinged?01:55
javispedroMohammadAG: yeah, but got it on my own; was looking for some MCE dbus message that was blocked.01:56
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MohammadAGjavispedro, I won't have my N950 for another two weeks02:03
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MohammadAGiOS5's swipe down notification center looks pretty much like Harmattan02:32
DocScrutinizersurprise surprise02:33
RST38hALso see Android notifications02:33
MohammadAGRST38h, no02:34
DocScrutinizercalled it a meeto-system long ago02:34
MohammadAGandr9id windows slide down02:34
MohammadAGthis is Harmattan style swipe02:34
MohammadAGwith the rounded corners too!02:34
MohammadAGthe bastards02:34
RST38hBTW, believe it or not but Android web browser cannot do ftp:// =)02:34
MohammadAGfirst thing that came to my mind is not the Galaxy SII in the house, but my N95002:35
javispedrohi there RST38h02:36
RST38hmooo, javispedro02:36
RST38hjavispedro: how is....mhm....research?02:36
RST38hMohammad: Isn't it natural, given how we all love N950? =)02:36
javispedroRealLife research is suspend for 8 more hours or soo (today was a holiday, spent first half of it sleeping =) )02:37
RST38hjavispedro: Some people manage to suspend it for years!02:39
* RST38h found that most Android tablets demoed at the large electronics chain here in the US are logged into peoples' Google accounts.02:40
RST38hI could actually BUY apps from the Market if I wanted =)02:40
javispedronoone clears the browser cookies from those02:42
javispedroso you can find plenty of facebook accounts02:42
RST38hwho needs fb accounts? now, their credit cards are different business...02:43
RST38hand Google conveniently ties them to their accounts02:43
javispedroI know at least one person that uses to post stuff like "I'm gay" (in a more elaborated way) to the facebooks of these peoples02:44
RST38hjavispedro: ahhaha02:44
RST38hMeanwhile: Officials at Creech Air Force Base in Nevada knew for two weeks about a virus infecting the drone "cockpits" there. But they kept the information about the infection to themselves - leaving the unit that's supposed to serve as the Air Force's cybersecurity specialists in the dark. The network defenders at the 24th Air Force learned of the virus by reading about it in Danger Room.02:51
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, and yet people want government involved in every part of their lives for some reason.03:06
RST38hGeneral: You would rather want Raytheon management to fail reporting the virus in their drone control systems?03:21
RST38hGeneral: Would that difference make you feel better?03:21
RST38hor Boeing maybe? or Lokheed Martin?03:21
GeneralAntillesRST38h, hey at least they lose money when they screw up03:27
GeneralAntillesthe government's incentive is all screwed to hell.03:28
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RST38hGeneral: Actually, they do not lose money03:57
RST38hGeneral: That is the fun part: you get to choose between inefficient government and inefficient corporation with internal structure closely resembling one of Soviet Union03:58
RST38hGovernment is actually more manageable, as it is a bit more transparent :)03:58
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* SpeedEvil notes that to launch 60 tons to orbit in the next decade, lockmart wants $30B.04:14
SpeedEvilCommercial launch vehicles can do 30000 tons for the same money.04:14
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RST38hSpeedEvil: What are you launching? =)04:17
SpeedEvilAlas nothing.04:17
SpeedEvilThough I do have sketches for a four-stage orbital launcher.04:18
RST38hDoes it use antigravitation?04:18
SpeedEvilPeroxide, and kerosene.04:18
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RST38hGizmodo writer having an erection in public:
RST38h(I guess some people never went to college and did not have a chance to find out about Unix networking]05:33
nibbleromgponies, someone build a web-based calendar and addressbook and stuff. all fanbois aboard the fap-ship!05:38
nibbler*scnr* - i think i have to throw up.05:39
* nibbler had that functionality with _symbian_ (of all things) ever since he set up a funambol instance and webdav.05:41
nibblerand it even was platform/vendor-independent.05:41
djszapimerlin1991: query about what ?06:01
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jylanHas anyone with the N950/N9 experience bugs with the camera autofocus?07:31
jylanAutofocus seems to stop responding completely after a while on my N907:31
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fralsanyone that flashed 'open mode' kernel to this device and tried facebookqml, does it still work?07:54
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djszapiN9merlin1991, i am about to send the participant list further. What query did you mean ?10:09
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djszapimerlin1991: and the sprint is mostly invite-only.10:27
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dm8tbrdjszapi: ah, like tizen? SCNR10:28
djszapidm8tbr: well, if you take the sponsorship for the participants, we can sponsor anybody. ;)10:29
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mjaOK, any1 able to translate QA English to ordinary English: "The application should prevent the user when receiving an sms"?11:11
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djszapiprevent from what ?11:12
djszapifrom receiving an sms ?11:13
mjaI don't know..11:13
dfaurewas that written by a french guy?11:14
dfaurelooks like "prévenir" which would mean alert11:14
mjait goes on: "when launching the application is running, and a messages its received the application not prevent the user about the sms"11:14
mjadear lord..11:15
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mjathat could be a google translation11:17
mjabut I don't know honestly what I can do about sms:s11:17
mjamy program is a game11:18
Kaadlajkit is either that your application should not prevent a SMS notification or it should prevent the notification when your app is started :P11:26
Kaadlajkis that from OVI store?11:26
mjaI don't understand how anyone can publish pure qt programs in the store if stuff like that is required11:30
mjameans I probably have to include messaging stuff in aegis manifest etc11:30
djszapimja: because there has not been a proper OVI Qa yet.11:31
mjajswhat do you mean by that?11:31
mjadjszapi: ...11:32
* Arkenoi ordered metawatch11:32
djszapimja: there is no proper QA in OVI. Stuff like that can occur.11:32
mjaso QA for the store is pretty random?11:33
djszapiit is pretty bad, yes. :/11:33
djszapithey have been working on it though applying many new developers.11:34
xarcassArkenoi: is it already possible? btw, where are you from?11:36
mjaOK, I just tried it, and in both the game and the main menu there is a notification bar popping up when receiving an sms11:36
mjawhy should it be disabled?11:36
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rantomWho's got a N9?11:40
rantomRetail, not developer11:40
* xarcass strokes his retail N9 tenderly11:41
rantomxarcass: Enabled developer-mode? Everything ok?11:42
rantomI'd need Terminal for SSH & IRC but I'm not sure do I want to enabled developer-mode just for that11:42
rantomOk, good11:42
ajalkanesomeone in meego forum borked their N9 enabling developer mode11:43
ajalkanewithout a flasher available, not usable anymore11:43
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rantomThat's exactly why I'm a bit worried11:43
Stskeepsisn't there a N9 OCF?11:44
rantomI've been told that it's ok but I'm still a bit unnerved about enabling it11:44
xarcassmine has been enabled for about a week for now, yet haven't got a chance to regret about this11:44
mecewow damn11:45
mecerantom, one click flasher11:45
rantomAh, ok11:45
rantomStskeeps: So far no, I think11:45
mecewhy why why is there no flasher??11:45
rantomI'm thinking of waiting until one is at hand for public and then enabling it11:45
rantommece: Probably because it's not launched(?) yet in all regions and they don't want people to go and try to flash N9 retail fw to developer-devices?11:46
rantomIF someone would be that...impatient11:46
Stskeepsyou can't, anyway11:46
xarcassrantom: i've enabled devmode before that thread appeared on the forum. otherwise i would have waited11:47
rantomHmm, ok11:47
meceWhat difference does it make if the devs install retail fw? I don't understand the problem there.11:47
rantommece: just guessing11:47
rantomthere is no problem11:48
rantomoh wait, there is11:48
* rantom 11:48
rantomBut yeah, thanks. I might try to be safe and wait for the public OCF, just to be sure11:49
* w00t has seen two developer modes enabled without problems11:54
rantomQuite an odd day today though in Finland. Day of failure, day of beer, N9 launched and Ubuntu 11.10 launches today11:56
rantomSomething is bound to go wrong..11:56
specialDennis Ritchie died, does that count?11:58
* dfaure can't enable developer-mode :(11:58
rantomspecial: I'd guess11:59
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rantomdfaure: How come? It just won't enable?11:59
dfaureyep, "Download failed"11:59
dfaurewhen trying to download the developer-mode package11:59
dfaureon a n950 beta211:59
Hq`something did go wrong... my N9 hasn't even shipped yet12:00
Hq`stupid dumb company store12:00
rantomdfaure: Ah, beta212:01
dfaurerantom: isn't that the latest? ;)12:01
rantomMine failed too but reboot fixed12:01
dfauretried rebooting already12:01
rantomBut I thought you were talking about the retail fw12:01
rantomoh, then I don't know12:02
dfaureretail? I thought this thing wasn't being sold yet?12:02
rantomI always use Windows-logic for that kindof errors (as in: reboot) :P12:02
rantomdfaure: N912:02
dfaureah ok12:02
mjaI know I'm asking a lot, but could someone with N9 test my game and see what happens when an sms is received?12:04
mjaon the N950 beta2 it's as it should, the notification bar pops up at the top of the srcreen12:04
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mja.deb version 1.0.112:06
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mecerip Dennis12:07
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jreznikdo you know how to ask OVI Store people to add some application to selected Collection (you know, that collection that are empty right now...)12:27
djszapione of his quotes: ""UNIX is very simple, it just needs a genius to understand its simplicity.""12:27
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jreznikdjszapi: you mean lennart? :)12:28
* jreznik should not be sarcastic now12:28
jreznikdjszapi: I know, just with lennart & company there's new re-definition of what Unix should looks like12:29
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djszapiMmm..For the record, I deleted the alsa-lib aggregation from the community repository since that was duplicated, if I am not mistaken.13:59
djszapiand unfortunately, it was even broken. kdebase-runtime could not pick up the proper libasound-dev version.. so either an old version, or aggregate is not working well in this case.14:00
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macmaNuuga uuga, what is this im reading about kernel sources aegis-liberation14:06
meceseems the N9 is selling very well in Finland.14:11
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djszapiwould be nice to have a tool that can mention if a certain package is already available from the "official" repositories.14:13
meceis the the official ones?14:15
djszapimany breakages happened so far because of the duplications.14:16
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faenilgood morning! any news? :D14:19
djszapisomeone told a guy called faenil needs to return his device :p :p14:20
faenilomg, are you talking for real?14:20
djszapientirely real :D :D14:21
faenildammit! XD14:21
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leinirhm. arbitrary decisions are fun14:21
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dm8tbrleinir: as a workaround, can you programatically create a calendar event at second accuracy? or does that only do minute level resolution.14:24
leinirdm8tbr: well, that'll also make it spawn a calendar event to be dismissed...14:25
djszapifaenil: btw, I will be in Munich by Friday early morning14:26
dm8tbrcall it 'tea ready' :)14:26
djszapiso Sunday sounds ok to me.14:26
faenildjszapi: wow :D14:26
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faenillunch's ready, be back later :)14:27
leinirdm8tbr: well, more to the point the app has other things too..14:28
leinirbut, i guess, a banner event will have to do14:28
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faenilback :)14:44
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maxwanyone know if there's a telnet prog for n950?15:26
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maxwlo? anyone? telnet?15:36
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Stskeepsdoesn't busybox have one?15:37
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* xarcass have complaint to the Nokia Care about vibration level. Surprisingly, they admitted the problem and that other users also have similar inconvenience. They also assured me that report have been sent to the developers team and solution will be available in the near future.15:57
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Stskeeps"please have this bluetooth dildo to help your vibration level problem"15:58
maxwStskeeps: seems not :/15:59
* xarcass pukes15:59
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* SpeedEvil imagines the nk-dld49.16:11
SpeedEvilxarcass: on the n9?16:11
DocScrutinizer51xarcass: the device is ok, it's just the OS implementation details that suck16:20
DocScrutinizer51and of course the product requirement specs are not my cup of tea16:21
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* xarcass cannot see any relation between vibration level and OS implementation and hopes that BT dildo won't be too expensive16:22
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DocScrutinizer51relation #1: why got vibra-patterns nuked out of mce.ini?16:24
DocScrutinizer51on fremantle it's been easy to define your very individual patternVibraACMEorgasm there16:26
xarcasswell, I doubt that if it was in the mce.ini i would've been able to edit it anyway. so it's all the same to me. I don't even know what that MCE stands for16:26
* xarcass wonders whether there will be mce.ini inside that BT dildo and how it would be possible to edit it16:27
DocScrutinizer51Missin Control Entity (or Machine)16:27
DocScrutinizer51and yes you actually can edit /etc/mce/mce.ini afaik16:28
xarcasssounds dangerous to me. I wouldn't dare messing about it.16:28
DocScrutinizer51not missing16:28
DocScrutinizer51maybe linux isn't the right platform for your needs then16:29
DocScrutinizer51anyway I *think* you could find out if you may mess with mce.ini by # grep 'mce/' restok16:31
snowpongwhats the uniqe identifier for .deb packages, is it the package name or? Symbian has UID3's - for meego/harmattan/deb I'm a bit unsure (wanting to make sure software updates work)16:32
xarcassI wonder why all people keep saying me exactly this.. I've been using linux constantly (with various flavors) since 1994. Without complaint or regret. I just don't want to brick my phone before official flasher becomes available16:32
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DocScrutinizer51fair enough16:32
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xarcassmoreover, that's not my problem: many people face the same issue and they may be not as experienced in linux as me or you - they must not be linux guru just to use the phone. overall device quality - that's what concerns me.16:34
cos^anyone know a decent geocaching app for harmattan? i just tested cacheme and it's not stable enough yet.16:35
DocScrutinizer51the device qualityt is just fine for what I can tell so far16:37
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DocScrutinizer51again, it's HARM that sucks16:38
DocScrutinizer51and for all I can deduce N9 is shipping with a firmware that's called Beta2 on N95016:40
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thpbtw, is there a way to put stuff onto the lockscreen like e.g. unread text messages are currently displayed?19:51
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RST38hStandard MTF notification framework shoudl work, I was told19:54
leinirYeah, that works19:55
leinirit's annoying, but it works19:55
thpdoes it allow direct interaction or just a single "swipe to the right" activation of the item?19:55
thp(i.e. would a media player "widget" with different areas be possible?)19:56
RST38hbut you can have one on the same screen where feeds and weather are19:57
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fralsRST38h: how? :)20:26
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petterigot n9 today. Seems that the white led is not blinking when I charge the device. It works when I boot however21:18
petterii assumed it should blink21:19
berndhsso now what? give up on technology, move to Tahiti and paint natives ?21:20
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rayyenzImage-, anyone tried it on N9?21:22
rayyenI really dont give a f..k about warranty as long as it doesnt brick it or something.. I was there was a warning.21:23
rayyenon phone + typing = a mess.21:24
Stskeepsyou cannot assume it won't brick it, fwiw :P21:24
rayyenhas anyone tried it on n9? :)21:24
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rayyenbricked or a locked aegis-lovin kernel..21:25
rayyenIm leaning towards bricked.. probably have to wait a day or two until I get there :P21:26
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djszapihi wazd =)22:28
djszapilong time ago..22:28
wazddjszapi: heya22:28
wazddjszapi: I'm a horrible monster, I know22:28
wazddjszapi: probabbly you've already made a voodoo doll for me22:28
djszapihaha =)22:29
wazddjszapi: but I'm still having that insanely crazy product launch22:29
augustlis it true? Can I get full root access to my N9 now, and keep the swipe UI?22:29
wazddjszapi: I'm almost dead myself22:30
augustlpetteri: it's supposed to blink, yeah22:30
* djszapi hugs wazd22:31
wazddjszapi: and my videocard died today or something, which definitely proves my voodoo theory :P22:32
wazdwell, something's definitely wrong but I'm still trying to figure out what :)22:33
petteriaugustl: ok, do you think i should return the device (i thought it could be software bug, since the led works when the n9 boots)?22:34
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augustlpetteri: no idea really.. I don't think I would22:44
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djszapianybody having an idea for this issue ? A higher version of this package is apparently available here:
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petterireading on the finnish forum, it seems to be common problem that black 64GB version does not blink the led when charcgin23:05
petterican anybody here confirm the bug?23:05
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djszapiwazd: will you have some time in the near future ? :p23:09
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wazddjszapi: yeah, actually tomorrow will be the release23:09
trxis it just me or is gsm signal reception on n950 VERY poor?23:09
trxi inserted a sim card today for the first time, and it sucks23:10
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djszapiwazd: cool.23:12
trxn900 has signal everywhere in my house while n950 doesnt even see it..23:12
trx(the network)23:12
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trxi wonder if i maybe have "Shun" on this server :)23:25
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RST38hmoooo javispedro23:41
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