IRC log of #harmattan for Friday, 2011-10-07

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GeneralAntillesieatlint, I'd kill myself.00:02
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ieatlintalways a good plan00:03
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merlin1991but tbh the macbook invasion has taken the metalab too00:03
GeneralAntillesieatlint, you're in the Bay area aren't you?00:04
merlin1991loads of macbook fanboys there00:04
ieatlintthe problem isn't with the macbooks themselves, it's the general attidue 90% of the owners have00:04
GeneralAntillesieatlint, wiretapped and ian_r supposedly have a good group somewhere downtown in SF.00:04
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merlin1991but ieatlint that leaves a question, do you brin a macbook too, or not? ;)00:04
ieatlintyeah, noisebridge, i know them... that's the place i was talking about :P00:04
infobotmerlin1991 meant: but ieatlint that leaves a question, do you bring a macbook too, or not? ;)00:04
GeneralAntillesI was supposed to drop in when I was out there for LFCS '09, but forgot and went drinking with Quim, Randy & Co. instead.00:05
ieatlinti'm on a thinkpad right now00:05
GeneralAntillesieatlint, ah. Well then. *g*00:05
ieatlintwiretapped is a friend :)00:05
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crevetoralterego: there ?00:11
GeneralAntillesHas progress halted on IRC Chatter?00:11
alteregocrevetor: indeedly.00:11
crevetoralterego: I'm reading your blog entry and was wondering if it would be doable to replace the QR code with NFC00:11
crevetorI guess it would00:12
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alteregocrevetor: not replace, but utilise when possible.00:12
alteregoAnd that is the intention. I just don't have any NFC capable devices yet.00:12
crevetorYeah me neither :(00:12
jstaniekhello, I am getting this failure after using official flashing instructions:
evilJazzalterego, nice demo!00:13
alteregoevilJazz: thanks :)00:13
jstanieklooking for working solution00:13
alteregoevilJazz: expect more interesting things from me in the future too :)00:13
alteregoPretty much just getting started :D00:14
alteregowin 1100:15
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crevetoralterego: do you get paid for the stuff you'Re working on ? Cause I want that job ;)00:16
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alteregoAnyway, I'm knackered, in the middle of moving house at the moment. Talk to you all later.00:21
crevetoralterego: Oh I hadn't read the whole blog entry, sorry for the redundant question00:21
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Sazpaimonhatterman is superior01:07
Sazpaimonjust throwing that out there01:07
SazpaimonI'd buy 10 N9s if they named it hatterman01:07
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evilJazzI should really get my app finished soon, just too little time.01:19
berndhsif you use that name, you'll probably hear from some lawyers :)01:19
evilJazzFor those interested, here is a little update:
SpeedEvilHow does it compare on battery use to the stock one?01:20
SpeedEvillooking good though01:21
evilJazzI haven't used the stock one a lot01:26
evilJazzThe device stays cold during use, so that is good enough for me01:27
evilJazzwhen inactive it will delay screen updates. That helps a lot with power consumption.01:27
evilJazzOther than that it uses either Qt Mobility's Multimedia or Phonon as backend. MPlayer is possible too.01:28
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evilJazzIs there a port of MPlayer available yet?01:29
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lardmanyes iirc01:31
lardmanthough exactly where it is I don't know01:31
evilJazzI don't like the "workflow" on the stock media player on both the N950 and the N900. My player behaves more like a desktop music player.01:32
evilJazzIt is pretty hard to condense that down to something usable on a mobile device. Either way I have been scratching my itch with this app since the good old Sharp Zaurus days...01:32
evilJazzThis just has the QML lipstick on :)01:32
lardmannight chaps01:36
evilJazzlardman, thanks for the info. Will check then and perhaps activate the mplayer backend as option01:36
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Venemo~seen djszapi02:32
infobotdjszapi <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 12h 3m 58s ago, saying: 'yeah. Do you have a release plan btw ? Rather, uploading to OVI plan ?'.02:33
SpeedEvilevilJazz: I mean - energy profiler. The power used for listening to02:33
SpeedEvilevilJazz: music is .15W. - 64kbps aac at low volume with screen off. This is around 26 hour battery life.02:34
SpeedEvilevilJazz: Which is quite decent - as you can use it a lot over several days and not need to charge.02:34
SpeedEvilevilJazz: However - some other music players need a _lot_ more. If it flattens the battery in 8 hours, even quite moderate use can cause issues with the overall life of the phone.02:35
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* SpeedEvil has slight doubts.04:43
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DocScrutinizer1:1 replica  quadband GSM  -  LOL04:46
DocScrutinizerSMS/MMS massage  \o/04:47
SpeedEvilI guess it vibrates.04:48
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mtd~seen jstaniek05:24
infobotjstaniek <> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 5h 10m 36s ago, saying: 'looking for working solution'.05:24
mtdinfobot: tell jstaniek the solution to the beta2 flashing failure that worked for me is on the same page -- search for "what I ended up doing"05:27
mtdoh....infobot doesn't do that05:28
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SpeedEvilIn principle, msgserv05:35
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evilJazzSpeedEvil, just tested with Vorbis 96kbps on lowest volume, screen off.  ~0.17W And I think I can get it down even more if I skip updating the playback progress every 10 secs when the screen is off. When the app is in the background it will currently update every 10 s. In Foreground every 1 s.08:18
SpeedEvilPretty good!08:22
SpeedEvilPulseaudio sucks up  fair amount of CPU, and you need to keep the CPU awake anyway08:23
evilJazzSpeedEvil: So, yes, power consumption is important. Right now the app is still in development, so there is still room for improvement. I regularly use QuasarMX in my car to stream audio via AD2P and remote-control via AVRCP.  The device got warm to the touch quite fast because of the useless timers running in the background. That's something that has already been worked out.08:23
SpeedEvilso under a certain percent of CPU won;'t make a difference08:23
SpeedEvilBit at that - that's fine.08:23
SpeedEvilMaybe it might be nice to look at at sometime in the future when it's finished featurewise - but...08:23
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Guest55192is there an application like backupmenu for the n9?08:50
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Guest55192something to backup the whole thing before trying something out08:51
iekkuSettings >> Sync and backup08:51
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Guest55192but what if the phone can't boot into the OS?08:52
sandst1Guest55192: copy the backup first to the pc from /home/user/MyDocs/.backups. Then copy it back and restore08:53
dm8tbrworks fine for me08:54
iekkusandst1, it doesn't really help if there's not a OS running anymore08:54
dm8tbrand I've been doing the reflash dance a LOT08:54
iekkuis there flash images available public?08:54
dm8tbrfor N9, not yet08:54
sandst1iekuu: that's true. was just assuming that 'before trying something out' means bad things haven't happened yet08:55
dm8tbrbut I'd expect something soon08:55
dm8tbrthe absence of flash files is a different problem than backups though08:55
iekkuGuest55192, so nothing really helpful available yet08:55
Guest55192so once the flasher/ROM is released that's the only way: reflash -> ssh over backup -> re-sync08:56
iekkubut yeah, take the backup to pc first...08:56
dm8tbrGuest55192: if the device doesn't boot, then yes it needs a reflash. what else?08:56
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Guest55192yea I was thinking about when the bootloader would still work, but the OS would no longer boot08:58
Guest55192Might there be a way in the future boot a device through the N9's USB?08:59
Guest55192e.g. similar to booting from the N900's SD card09:00
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cos^tells to run the installer script as $ sudo ./ admininstallsudo -i09:12
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cos^..but the script says " error: -i option requires an argument09:12
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cos^seems to launch with last "sudo -i" removed09:15
ieatlintnote that you may not need that sdk.. the regular qtsdk includes a harmattan toolchain with a complete set of libs09:17
ieatlintand is simpler to setup and maintain09:17
cos^ok, thanks09:18
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cos^where would be a good tutorial for harmattan sdk development? something like how to build & run helloworld on device10:59
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gricos^, QtCreator already creates a ready-to-use project when you click "create new qt quick application -> harmattan"11:00
griYou just have to configure a device before :)11:00
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* xarcass wonders whether there is some way to make vibration stronger on the N911:03
cos^gri: ok, i'll try it11:07
cos^i wonder how long "Erasing, this may take a while." should take on a N95011:08
xarcassup to half an hour11:08
cos^ok, i'll wait11:10
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cos^for some reason i'm pessimistic about these things working :-)11:13
xarcasshint - don't stare at the screen while flashing is in progress. probability of success increases dramatically, believe me11:14
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Hq`it can sense your fear11:18
* xarcass after about 50 consecutive flashing failures of N950 seriously considered possibility of application of human sacrifices to improve success ratio of the flashing process11:20
* gri always took a shower while flashing the n950 :)11:22
Anssi138fear is the path to dark side11:22
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Anssi138or how it went, my inner nerd doesn't remember11:23
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dm8tbrcome to the dark side, we have cookies!11:24
Anssi138do you have iphones too?11:25
dm8tbrhmm glossy black N9 64GB would be nice with those cookies :)11:25
* dm8tbr saw one (proto?). some nokia guy had it11:26
Anssi138*ok sign me in :)11:26
* gri wants the red one but can't even find any color in europe11:26
Anssi138black looks cool11:26
* xarcass is coding for the iphone right now and feels just like Dark Lord already. With glossy black N9 64GB in the pocket.11:26
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Anssi138black display in black chassis looks well.. what darth wader would have liked11:27
matrixxI wouldn't mind the color, any color would be ok :)11:27
Hq`argh... why isn't mine already here11:28
xarcasswell, yesterday was sales start and there were no other models apart from black 64GB.11:28
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Anssi138Hq`, you bought nice fruit basket for your manager so you could order it? :)11:29
Hq`I just kept asking until he approved :)11:30
* xarcass fears now that fellow iphone-developers might catch him somewhere in the dark and beat twelve kinds of shit out of him11:31
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meceI know a bunch of people that dev for iphone/ipad and have N900's etc.11:33
Anssi138Hq`, sounds like a good tactics :)11:34
mecemostly because they dev for many platforms. Which is the proper way imo.11:34
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DocScrutinizerxarcass: (vibrator) look at (and edit) /etc/mce/mce.ini11:38
xarcassDocScrutinizer: thanks, i'll do that later - didn't even switched on developer mode yet11:40
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DocScrutinizer[usual disclaimer applies, including possible MALF when editing $random-file]11:41
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DocScrutinizermay-I-edit() {grep $1 /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" || echo "edit if you feel venturous"}11:46
DocScrutinizermight help11:46
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DocScrutinizermay-I-edit () { grep `basename $1` /var/lib/aegis/refhashlist && echo "probably not" || echo "edit if you feel venturous"; }11:50
xarcasswell, after a second thought, it seems that vibrator isn't that weak. especially taking into account that flasher isn't available yet :)11:51
xarcassI don't want to brick my new bright and shiny N911:53
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pinheiromy n950 as turned into mostly a brick11:54
pinheiroa very nice shuly lush brick, but still a brick11:55
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pinheiroonly charges if on flash mode11:56
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* xarcass strokes his N9 tenderly11:57
xarcassI just can't kill this thing! It's so cute! And I've been waiting it for soooo long!11:57
DocScrutinizer"only charges if on flash mode" pretty much sounds like you fsckd up bme11:58
pinheirofsckd up bme?11:59
DocScrutinizerRM680-22-6_PR_RM680:~# ps|grep bme11:59
DocScrutinizer  606 root     /usr/lib/hal/hald-addon-bme11:59
DocScrutinizer 6137 bme      /usr/sbin/bme_RX-71 -u -l syslog -v 5 -c /usr/lib/hwi/hw/rx71.so11:59
pinheiropluguin it to a charger make sthe screen go on and of and depletes the baterry12:00
DocScrutinizeralso bmestat12:00
pinheiroDocScrutinizer: I'm a silly stupid qml/designer so in simplified english :D12:01
DocScrutinizeras simple as it gets: reflash!12:02
pinheiroand i do that by ?12:02
pinheiroLinux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin ?12:02
pinheiroheeee thst what i have been doing12:03
pinheiroERROR: Failed to erase MMC using 'secure' method12:03
pinheiroErasing finished at 10:01:5712:03
DocScrutinizerhmm, there's a workaround for this afaik12:03
emanpinheiro: Does lsmod show cdc_phonet loaded?12:04
DocScrutinizeron PC!12:04
pinheiroends like this every time :( in fact ./Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin is all i have done12:04
pinheiroeman: phonet                 22279  1 cdc_phonet12:05
emanrmmod it and blacklist it12:05
emanvi /etc/modprobe.d/blacklist.conf12:06
emanblacklist cdc_phonet12:06
pinheiroeman: and now?12:08
pinheiroreeboot »12:08
DocScrutinizerrmmod cdc_phonet should suffice12:11
DocScrutinizerthe do another lsmod|grep phonet12:11
pinheirophonet                 22279  012:11
DocScrutinizerto make sure it's gone (of course you need to unplug/replug the N950 prior to that)12:11
pinheirophonet in red12:12
DocScrutinizerhmm rebott12:12
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DocScrutinizererr wut? your lsmod has color support?12:12
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pinheiroServer implements softupd protocol version 1.812:37
pinheiroCharging battery,  8 % battery level (11 % required). Ctrl-c to exit12:37
pinheiroat least its charging12:37
pinheiroBTW before briking the phone I noteced some icons are still not in the new style, if you guys wnat i can do them12:39
pinheiroThey are fun to do12:39
gripinheiro, Can you make NEW icons? I don't have one for my app12:40
pinheirogri:  shure12:40
gripinheiro, Great - so what do you need to make one?12:41
pinheironame od the app anad what does it do12:41
pinheiroscreenshot apreciated12:41
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griName is Web2SMS. Does send text messages over the internet (sms backends, site scraping etc.)12:43
gripinheiro, useless video
griscreenshots ? (finder is slow as hell on ftp ..)12:44
pinheiroso it sends sms via internet services?12:46
pinheirook gotcha12:46
griI also have a screenshot of the main screen (whose color is green)12:46
pinheiroany idea for the image?12:46
griso the icon should atleast also have the same color :)12:47
griexcept of that: no idea12:47
pinheirogreeen gotcha12:47
pinheirolet see if i can unbrick my n95012:47
gripinheiro, old screenshot but that's the color :)12:49
pinheiroidea a baloon with text?12:50
pinheirowhat do you think?12:50
grithe old icon was already a copy of the iPhone icon12:50
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pinheirowill do later oki?12:51
gribut you could of course try copying the normal "messages" icon of the n9 just in green12:51
gridon't hurry :) I'm far away from publishing, so I don't need it now12:52
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pinheiroeman: DocScrutinizer "Battery level 12 %, continuing.       Erasing, this may take a while."13:00
pinheiroErasing unsuccessful13:00
pinheiroPress Enter to exit13:00
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DocScrutinizerumm, I suggest recharging battery a good bit, then retrying. Also using "old" flasher programm may help13:01
DocScrutinizer flasher*13:03
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DocScrutinizer[jr@lagrange ~]$ www-jr/maemo/950/myimages/xtract22-6/flasher --erase-mmc=foo13:08
DocScrutinizerflasher 3.11.5 (May 17 2011) Harmattan13:08
DocScrutinizerPossible erase MMC options:13:08
DocScrutinizer  secure13:08
DocScrutinizer  quick13:08
pinheiroDocScrutinizer: to charge i have the problem thst its only charging during the flashing process13:09
pinheiroif y plug the usb its goes in to a trun on and off loop and ends up with zero batery13:10
grineat, 10 minutes before the sun was shining, now there is a hail storm with a almost 90? angle :P13:10
Stskeepsgri: fall is here13:11
matrixxhere too, stormy wheather13:12
pinheirostill sumer +30 c here :P13:12
matrixxhere's more like +10 c :(13:13
* gri wants snow, snowboard wants to be used :)13:13
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pinheiroDocScrutinizer: how do i use
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DocScrutinizercopy flasher to your PC, invoke by #> ./flasher --help13:31
DocScrutinizerI don't know if 22-6 flasher can flash 34-2 extracted img.bin13:34
DocScrutinizeror simply do the erase for that purpose13:34
DocScrutinizerthere's also a --charge-battery option in one of the flashers (or sth with a similar meaning)13:37
pinheiroi downloded the bin files as well13:37
pinheiroright now a realy old version would be a major improvment :D13:38
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DocScrutinizerwell, all that is based on the two OCF versions as found on , and the script (plus some unzip or similar tools)13:40
DocScrutinizeryou can do exactly same on your PC13:42
pinheirosemas a bit to muchs sand for a silly designer13:42
DocScrutinizerand you probably already got Linux_OCF_22-6_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin and Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin13:42
emanpinheiro: Does dmesg show anything when it says that it failed to erase?13:43
pinheiroright now its at "13:43
pinheiroServer implements softupd protocol version 1.813:43
pinheiroBattery level 21 %, continuing.13:43
pinheiroErasing, this may take a while.13:43
leinirpinheiro: yay! :)13:44
pinheiroits stays in that for 5 minutes13:44
pinheiroleinir: :)13:44
leinirIt'll probably stay like that for some fifteen to twenty minutes, roughly13:44
leinir(securely erasing 16 GB of flash does take a while)13:44
pinheiroBattery level 21 %, continuing.13:44
pinheiroErasing, this may take a while.13:44
pinheiroERROR: Failed to erase MMC using 'secure' method13:44
pinheiroErasing finished at 11:44:3513:44
pinheiroErasing unsuccessful13:45
pinheiroPress Enter to exit13:45
leinirRight, this will sound silly, but do you have a windows machine handy?13:45
DocScrutinizerdo a dmesg right now13:45
pinheiroleinir:  yes and the result was the same13:45
emangri: I found really useful for making an icon13:45
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pinheiroeman: i dont mind doing the icons they are not that many and thats one of the resons nokia sent me the n95013:47
emanAh, cool13:47
pinheironow if i onley could make it work :)13:48
emanhmmm, stab in the dark, but perhaps run lsub -t and see if you can plug it into another bus? (may do absolutely nothing..)13:50
pinheirolsub: command not found13:50
emanlsusb that is13:51
pinheiroright after try n#300 of the ./Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin13:52
emanwhat distribution are you using btw?13:52
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pinheirodo naot make fun of it :D13:53
pinheiroim a neebie for the last 13 years with it13:53
emanheh, that's okay13:55
pinheiroit might very well be the batery thing13:56
emanI doubt it would make a difference to the erase, but you could also try checking the md5sum of Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin to ensure it is 6eb05b04842fb9fae2451dc266888eb913:57
lkslawekpinheiro: did you try with a different computer?13:57
lkslawekI've got one that isn't working with flasher13:57
pinheirolkslawek: 313:57
pinheiro2 linux machines and a windows13:57
lkslawekpinheiro: but are those different hw?13:57
pinheiroforced my poor wife to boot in to windows13:58
pinheiro3 difrent machines13:58
lkslaweknot a damaged/poor quality cable by any chance?13:58
pinheirotried 313:59
lkslaweknice :)13:59
pinheirousing now my old n900 cable13:59
pinheirothst im sure was fine13:59
lkslawekI did not read full conversation, I see you've been already told to blacklist phonet14:00
lkslawekdid you try using flasher manualy already?14:00
lkslaweke.g. without erasing or with quick erase?14:00
lkslawekyou can extract Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin14:01
lkslawekand get a flasher and images from it14:01
lkslawekyou could also try with --cold-flash14:01
DocScrutinizerthat's what Ronan says, yes14:03
pinheiroi have the flasher here14:03
pinheiroso ./flasher -F RX-71.bin -F EMMC.bin --flash-only=mmc -f14:03
lkslawekI'm not familiar with those images14:04
lkslawekand I do not know why do you want to flash only mmc14:04
lkslawekbut well, as I told, I did not read the whole topic14:04
pinheiroim completly clueless on :D14:04
pinheirolkslawek basacly14:05
pinheiroBattery level 20 %, continuing.14:05
pinheiroErasing, this may take a while.14:05
pinheiroERROR: Failed to erase MMC using 'secure' method14:05
pinheiroErasing finished at 11:59:4114:05
lkslawekI think someone already published instructions how to get the contents out of one-click flasher14:05
pinheiroErasing unsuccessful14:05
pinheiroPress Enter to exit14:05
lkslawekthis is the shell script with an archive inlined14:05
pinheirothat is easy just open with ark14:05
pinheiroi see them here14:05
lkslawekthe one-click flasher? well, nice tool this ark14:06
lkslawekI was extracting them with tail | tar14:06
pinheirokde linux tool14:06
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DocScrutinizerType the following: …/Win_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916>flasher.exe –c –F RX-71.bin –F emmc.bin –f.14:07
lkslawekaah, the self extracting .ee14:07
lkslawekI was thinking about linux one14:07
cos^ok, looks like Widget-based apps look really ugly on harmattan14:07
pinheiroDocScrutinizer:  im at linux now14:08
cos^should they have the default gray theme?14:08
lkslawekyes, DocScrutinizer looks good14:08
lkslawekthat is his command14:08
pinheirolast thing were should i put the bin files?14:08
lkslawekand hold the power button on the phone14:08
DocScrutinizerfor extracting, see
DocScrutinizer(or simply get the extracted files there)14:09
DocScrutinizerpinheiro: it's completely irrelevant where the image files are stored, as long as your path in flasher command points to theem14:10
DocScrutinizerso if you store them in /foo/bar/emmc.bin, you need to use flasher –c –F /foo/bar/RX-71.bin –F /foo/bar/emmc.bin –f.14:11
lkslawekpinheiro: tail -c +1213 Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin|tar xv14:12
lkslawekthis is for extracting Linux version14:12
DocScrutinizerseems RX-71 is called img here14:13
lkslawekthis will give you emmc.bin, img.bin and two archives with flasher (one for x86, one for amd64)14:13
DocScrutinizerlkslawek: see
lkslawekDocScrutinizer: I can read bash14:13
lkslawekand one-click flasher is quite readable14:14
pinheirook lets test :D14:15
lkslawekthis extract-ofc is a bit overdo14:16
DocScrutinizermaybe pinheiro can't, so for pinheiro: download, type #> source; extract-OCF <path_to_[   ]  Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin >14:17
grieman, I don't have anything, so I can't use the creator :)14:17
pinheiroi have extrated the flasher and the bin files out of the  Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin14:17
lkslawekDocScrutinizer: or he can just repaste the one lijne14:17
pinheirothat is done14:17
lkslawekDocScrutinizer: really complicated, right?14:18
DocScrutinizerpinheiro: or simply get the files from (for 34-2) or
lkslawekpinheiro: good14:18
pinheiroall i need is now to flash14:18
lkslawekpinheiro: now play with flasher until you get this working :)14:18
DocScrutinizerlkslawek: if you feel this is complicated, you better not mess with harmattan14:18
pinheiro" ./flasher –c –F /foo/bar/RX-71.bin –F /foo/bar/emmc.bin –f"14:19
pinheirotype this?14:19
lkslawekDocScrutinizer: I feel that making a function instead of making script accept parameter is just wrong14:19
lkslawekbut maybe someone cannot use PATH14:19
lkslawekbesides this code doing unnecesary things14:20
DocScrutinizerlkslawek: go annoy somebody elseplease14:20
pinheirook so " ./flasher –c –F /foo/bar/img.bin –F /foo/bar/emmc.bin –f"14:20
lkslawekpinheiro: right14:20
pinheiro./flasher –c –F /foo/bar/img.bin –F /foo/bar/emmc.bin –f14:21
pinheiroflasher 3.12.0 (Jun 30 2011) Harmattan14:21
pinheiroERROR: Unknown arguments specified!14:21
pinheiroUsage: flasher [OPTIONS]14:21
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fralspinheiro: seems your copy/paste messed up the - character14:21
emanpinheiro: You need to erase it first14:21
emanflasher -a img.bin --erase-mmc=secure14:21
DocScrutinizeryur - look like –14:21
lkslawekeman: not necassary14:21
emanAh, okay. Didn't realise.14:22
lkslawekespecially that his erasing dies :)14:22
DocScrutinizerpinheiro: this are simple single minus signs, as usual for unix cmdline parameters14:23
pinheiroyep fixed it14:23
lkslawekpinheiro: sudo14:23
lkslawekpinheiro: at the front, of course14:23
pinheirosory thouught was root14:24
pinheiroi was not14:24
lkslawekthis looks more and more like usb problems14:26
DocScrutinizerthis are USB problems14:26
pinheirobut it should have worked on windows right?14:27
lkslawekpinheiro: it should have worked everywhere :)14:27
DocScrutinizertry this:
DocScrutinizeralso make sure you are using a USB port that has no internal hub chip before it14:28
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DocScrutinizersome users got this working by booting a live-CD of an "ancient" linux distro, like Suse11.214:30
DocScrutinizeror windows-XP instead of 714:31
pinheironow the ideot phone does not want to poeweroff14:31
DocScrutinizer8s powerbutton should always shut off14:32
fralsunless you broke your hw 8s powerbutton turns it off14:32
DocScrutinizerI think some rogue software *could* disable that function in twl503114:33
pinheiroit poersoff but gets on back imidiatly14:33
DocScrutinizerit's just the power-on default for 8s powerbutton to do a hard shutdown14:33
DocScrutinizerpinheiro: as long as USB is connected, it is suppoised to do that14:34
pinheiroits not14:34
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lkslawekI did happend to me after aborted flashing14:34
DocScrutinizer10 seconds holding powerbutton doesn't make it shutdown and stay off?14:34
DocScrutinizercongrats, you achieved sth that'S considered impossible14:35
DocScrutinizerremove battery14:35
pinheiroi wish14:35
lkslawekpinheiro: but maybe in your case you are just not catching the right moment14:35
lkslawekkeep pressing just after reboot14:35
DocScrutinizeror - first - try plugging it into a USB charger and/or PC14:35
lkslawekif it reboots when you holding button14:36
fralsuh, if you fail during flashing i guess it might stick with some "dont power off flag" since flasher sends reboot-to-bootloader or similar14:36
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lkslawekthen usually this doesn't work14:36
fralsbut otoh i have no clue how all that lowlevel stuff works14:36
* frals takes weekend o/14:36
DocScrutinizerfrals: o/14:36
pinheiroi wish14:36
lkslawekpinheiro: hold it just after the loop starts from the beginning14:38
lkslaweki.e. the log lines with the kernel version14:39
DocScrutinizerpinheiro: or simply plug it in to flasher, then power down while it's flashing14:39
pinheiro./Linux_OCF_34-2_EMMC_RM680-OEM1-916.bin  fixed that14:39
lkslawekhehe, "at least it powers down, but nothing more"14:39
pinheiroyeay i can poerwit down now :)14:40
pinheironow re test the comand14:40
pinheirosame result14:42
DocScrutinizersorry, I'm fed up with all the cookies and flash shit on those pages14:42
pinheiro:( here its spam14:42
pinheiroany way same problem as before14:43
lkslawekpinheiro: well, I wasn't able to fix one of my PCs to work with flasher, but fortunatelly got other one working14:43
lkslawekso no experience on actual fixing :)14:43
DocScrutinizertry an older linux version, try to flash 22-6 first14:44
DocScrutinizer(if that modprobe -r ehci_hcd didn't help)14:44
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pinheiroits working14:46
pinheiromodprobe -r ehci_hcd14:46
pinheiromodprobe -r ehci_hcd14:46
pinheiroDocScrutinizer:  rocks14:47
* pinheiro if you hever need any UI work or QML noncense IM your man14:51
pinheiroafter the "./flasher -c -F img.bin -F emmc.bin -f" is done do i need to do somthing special?14:53
DocScrutinizersee if your product version looks like you'd expect it to14:54
pinheirosoo plain reboot and im fine?14:55
DocScrutinizerafter modprobe -r ehci_hcd  even the "normal" one-click-flasher should work14:55
pinheirogess so14:55
DocScrutinizeryup, I'd say it should just reboot into recent version14:55
pinheirothank you so much14:55
DocScrutinizeryw, been a pleasure to help14:56
pinheirosepcialy for the patience14:56
pinheirophingers crossed14:56
pinheiropressing power buton14:57
pinheiroseams to work at least to boot14:58
pinheiroi see the circles14:58
DocScrutinizerone more tip (to get me in on pastebins): cat | netcat 123415:00
DocScrutinizernot those many flash shitty ads, way faster to load15:01
pinheironeed to set it up on my plasma thingy15:02
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lfranchihi guys, just received an n950 yesterday. can't get it to turn on, though, so wondering if anyone can help me fix it :) things i've tried: fully charged (been plugged in overnight w/ white light on). held power down for lots of seconds. tried flashing, but flasher script doesn' recognize phone as plugged in15:55
lfranchican't get it to turn on, basically15:55
lfranchiwhite light is on when plugged in (sort of flickering fast) but turns off as soon as i unplug it, stays off till i plug it back in15:56
cos^sounds like your device is broken15:57
cos^you could try removing the battery for a while (if mechanically possible)15:57
lfranchiis the n950 battery removable? looks pretty sealed off15:57
matrixxlfranchi: it's removable15:58
matrixxremoving those four screws is part of the unboxing ;)15:58
leinirwell, if you have some torx drivers you can remove it just fine... actually getting a hold of a battery though might be fun, no idea what's inside :)15:58
matrixxyou don't need them to keep the battery cover on15:58
dm8tbrTx4 screw driver is part of my standard arsenal of tools15:58
dm8tbrand I always keep 2-3 fully charged spare bl-4d batteries in my pocket15:59
lfranchiyeah, i have the torx tip16:00
cos^btw i managed to run my app on N950 today. but looks like it needs to be rewritten in QML :/16:04
cos^is there any application manager-like UI for harmattan yet?16:06
lfranchiwell, took the battery out16:07
dm8tbrlfranchi: if you have a multimeter, check the voltage16:07
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cos^is "nokia account" really required to install anything?16:09
DocScrutinizerfast flashing doesn't exactly sound like charging16:09
DocScrutinizerwill need a coldflash to enable charging, but will probably a charged battery for coldflash16:10
DocScrutinizercos^: no, nokia account is needed to run map and drive app16:11
lfranchino multimeter, unfortunately16:12
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DocScrutinizeryou don't happen to have a N900 or N810?16:13
dm8tbrflasher has a built in option to wait for charge if necessary16:13
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: also on coldflash?16:13
lfranchinope, no n810 or 90016:13
dm8tbrDocScrutinizer: I think it happened to me once on cold flash that it went *blip* and started waiting for charge16:13
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr: it *could* but I'm not sure if it actually does16:14
dm8tbryou can also force that manually16:14
dm8tbr-o or -O wait_charge or sthg like that.16:14
dm8tbrit was an option and it's not for OCF but the real flasher16:15
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DocScrutinizer  -O, --flash-option[=ARG]      Set options for flashing16:15
dm8tbrthen it't -O wait-charge or -O wait-charging - the channel log should know, achipa mentioned the correct option16:16
DocScrutinizerstrings flasher|grep wait-charging16:17
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DocScrutinizerless +/charg www-jr/maemo/950/myimages/xtract/flasher64/usr/share/doc/flasher/changelog.gz16:37
DocScrutinizer* libflc: check battery level before erasing. Fixes: NB#24569516:39
w00tdm8tbr: it's -Owait-charging16:40
DocScrutinizer* libflc: support ignoring battery level check for erase. Fixes: NB#251740 ;-P16:40
DocScrutinizer  * flasher: add RTC reboot capability  -- .oO(???)16:43
DocScrutinizerand just MEH for >>www-jr/maemo/950/myimages/xtract/flasher32/usr/bin/flasher: /lib/ version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by www-jr/maemo/950/myimages/xtract/flasher32/usr/bin/flasher) <<16:45
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dm8tbrwhatever you are rambling on about...16:48
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* lfranchi tries -Owait-charging16:53
pinheirosily question but is there skype available ?16:54
DocScrutinizererr, silly answer: dunno16:54
pinheirodont see it on my acounts list16:54
Venemopinheiro, nope, but you can hack it on16:54
DocScrutinizerbribe MohammadAG16:55
artemmaIn Settings->Programs there are tabs with text labels below the icon. When I am trying to use TabButtons, text is to the right of the icon. Why? Does it depend on the icon size maybe?16:55
leinirHmm... i should do that too... *pokes MohammadAG* ;)16:55
leinir's the only thing i still use my n900 for regularly ;)16:56
pinheiroleinir: +116:56
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leinir(and since we skype once a week with work...)16:56
pinheiroleinir:  way more than that, confcalls are a pain16:57
artemmaskype is the only thing I really don't like in n900. Whenever my designer tries using it he is never able to hear me well16:57
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DocScrutinizerskype is the one thing that definitely *will* cut thru your battery in hours16:57
pinheiroand what about other types od acounts like msn and jabber?16:59
DocScrutinizerSIP, works just fine here16:59
DocScrutinizereven via 3G16:59
* pinheiro trying to migrate to n950 :D16:59
DocScrutinizerworks on N950 as well16:59
pinheiromsn and jabber?16:59
DocScrutinizerwhat's that? ;-P17:00
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pinheirosome silly IM protocols some more silly people use17:00
DocScrutinizerthought as much17:00
dm8tbrpinheiro: xmpp works just fine, look for the mc-tool hack in the chat history17:00
pinheirohummm need to install repositories like in the n900 ?17:02
* dm8tbr still waits for someone to write an account ui for xmpp...17:03
leinirand status.net17:04
dm8tbrleinir: that would need more than the pure account ui woudln't it? for xmpp you only need to add the UI as the backend is already there17:04
leinir...also, has anybody figured out how to share images on twitter yet? it seems a basic functionality for twitter these days, and well... it's not there...17:04
leinirdm8tbr: true :)17:04
dm8tbr*sigh* my reflash-sense is tingling...17:05
dm8tbrthe n950 just drew a blank screen on installing some updates... :/17:06
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djszapiVenemo: o/17:12
djszapiI have 2 feature requests to irc-chatter :)17:12
djszapi1) Logging of the channels and private conversations where I was "online" 2) Get proper away notifications.17:13
Venemohey djszapi17:13
Venemodjszapi, ok, suggestions noted :)17:14
djszapiHow can I send my messages on Harmattan if it failed for some reason ? I do not see an option yet to easily re-send somehow.17:16
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leinirdjszapi: define "messages"...17:18
djszapiany, for instance, sms, but im messages, too..17:18
leinirwell, if there's no signal, an sms is sent when signal reappears...17:18
leinirother than that, yeah, a per-message details thing like on the n900 would be useful :)17:19
djszapiindeed, send the same message to someone else, etc.17:20
djszapileinir: after a phone reboot, I could call the person, but prior to that, the sms did not get re-sent.17:22
aheineckehey djszapi i'm trying to install your kdelibs5 packages but i get Broken Packages errors and libnepomuk4 seems to conflict with mp-harmattan-rm680-pr17:23
aheineckedo i need some additonal repo to install your packages?17:23
djszapimmm, do you use the community repository or my repository ?17:25
aheineckei have both in there17:25
djszapiI would try it out without my repository since that is not needed anymore, hopefully.17:25
djszapiI started working into the community repository only at some point back then.17:26
djszapieven my very old feature phone could store messages and re-send it to anybody anytimes :p17:27
djszapiahh long tap, and then there is a menu cool!17:28
leinirD'oh, of course there is - fairly key part of how you do stuff on harmattan, that :)17:29
aheineckemh i currently can't install anything that depends on libgmp because i only get a 404 error from for that package17:30
aheineckedjszapi: thanks17:31
djszapiaheinecke: I was about to package kde-runtime, if you need that. If you would not like to use that, I have workaround for the rules file.17:33
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aheineckedjszapi: thanks i'm still getting my bearings with harmattan but ultimately i want to have kdepim-mobile running17:35
aheineckewhat workaround for the rules file is necessary?17:35
djszapiDEB_DH_SHLIBDEPS_ARGS_kalgebra = -- -xkde-runtime -> That is what I used in kalgebra.17:36
djszapiI heard you guys got only one device instead of separate devices for the developers. That is very unfortunate. :(17:37
aheineckeyes, but we already have preordered some n9's so hopefully we can use an n9 for demonstrations and the n950 for development :)17:38
djszapicool, would you be interested in a KDE Harmattan sprint ?17:39
djszapiI was planning to organize one, and I had a place to host us, too ..17:39
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* lfranchi gives up. phone is a brick :(17:39
aheineckesounds interesting17:39
Stskeepslfranchi: what symptoms?17:40
Stskeepslfranchi: and do you have a wall charger?17:40
djszapiaheinecke: There were about 6-7 people interested in that. The place would be Berin. Financial support, I do not know ..17:40
lfranchiStskeeps: "just received an n950 yesterday. can't get it to turn on, though, so wondering if anyone can help me fix it :) things i've tried: fully charged (been plugged in overnight w/ white light on). held power down for lots of seconds. tried flashing, but flasher script doesn' recognize phone as plugged in. can't get it to turn on, basically. white light is on when plugged in (sort of flickering fast) but turns off as soon as i unplug it,17:40
lfranchi stays off till i plug it back in"17:40
aheineckedo you have any mailing list or so apart from kde-mobile?17:40
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lfranchiive also removed the battery since then, and waited for a while17:41
Stskeepslfranchi: does flasher pick it up at all? charging with computer may not do it17:41
lfranchinope, flasher doesn't pick it up17:41
djszapiaheinecke: mmm, yeah, but there was not much interest there previously about the kde packages :P I think primarily because KDE Developers did not have devices back then.17:41
Stskeepssudo ?17:42
lfranchiStskeeps:  linux/mac. on win7 the flasher fails to start, with an error17:42
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djszapilfranchi: have you tried cold flash ?17:42
Stskeepslfranchi: what error?17:42
lfranchidjszapi: what's that / how do i try that?17:42
djszapiyou sure the image has the proper checksum ?17:42
djszapilfranchi: -c17:42
lfranchiStskeeps: haha it works now17:43
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lfranchi5th try (the flash software)17:43
djszapinice :)17:43
lfranchidoesn't notice the phone plugged in though, so no dice17:43
djszapiaheinecke: I have two missing dependencies to package kde-runtime, libssh-dev (>= 0.4.0) libntrack-qt4-dev.17:44
lfranchiwill try cold flash i guess17:44
djszapiunsure whether or not they can be optional.17:44
djszapilfranchi: most important, checksum should be okay, checked that ? ;)17:44
lfranchidjszapi: will let you know after i re-download17:44
djszapiaheinecke: I am a bit forced with the date because of the other sprints, but it would be 18-20, November.17:46
djszapiif you think it is a good idea, I can post it on sprints.kde.org17:46
djszapiI was just a bit worried about the financial situation..17:46
lardmanargh, bloody svn17:46
aheineckedjszapi: ok i think it would be a good idea17:47
lfranchiStskeeps: indeed. same on win7: waits at "suitable usb interface not found, waiting..."17:47
aheineckei can't say for sure that i will make it there atm since i have to check with my boss first ;)17:47
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djszapiaheinecke: yeah, ideally we would need 2 people at least from the Harmattan platform with relevant experience, at least one very good packager, at least 1-2 ui designer or/and plasma developers, and other KDE developers as many as possible.17:49
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djszapiaheinecke: do you have experience with debian packaging ?17:58
aheineckedjszapi: yes some and i did some fremantle packaging17:59
lfranchidjszapi: no -c option to flasher?18:00
djszapilfranchi: use the old flasher18:00
djszapibut I think it should work without cold flash too, hopefully :p18:00
lfranchigot a link for me?18:00
djszapiso the checksum is ok ?18:01
lfranchiyeahm, checksum is good18:01
djszapiwhich OS ?18:01
lfranchimac/linux/win :P18:02
djszapiCould you please try with Windows ? That seemed the most stable heretofore. More people, like apol and others could not manage it from Linux.18:02
djszapibut they could it from Windows.18:02
lfranchiyeah, on win7 right now18:02
djszapicool, so what is the error message exactly as Stskeeps asked ?18:02
lfranchiit doesnt' find the plugged in phone18:03
lfranchiwaits at "suitable usb interface not found, waiting..."18:03
aheineckedjszapi: looks just like a normal build error, would have to check the libssh sources18:03
djszapiaheinecke: I am about to disable the documentation generation since we do not need that on Harmattan after all :p18:04
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lfranchidjszapi: tried cold flash on win7, after extracting .exe and running flasher.exe -c, but still doesn't detect the usb interface18:09
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djszapilfranchi: you are using beta2 image and followed the official steps, right ?18:10
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djszapihas it ever booted for you previously, or never ?18:10
lfranchinever (just got it yesterday)18:11
djszapiand you probably charged it for more than 15-20 minutes before trying to flash.18:12
lfranchiyeah, overnight18:12
djszapiyou have never seen the Nokia logo after pressing the power on button, have you ?18:14
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lfranchinever seen the screen on18:14
djszapithey may have left out the software ? :p18:15
lfranchiwouldn't surprise me18:15
djszapiI am not sure how to get a beta1 image, but if you can get it easily, I would try with that, too18:15
lfranchionly sign of life is the white charging light18:15
lfranchiyeha, google hasn't been helpful finding that18:15
djszapicould you please give me the help output of your flasher binary ?18:16
djszapimaybe there is an option to know a bit more..18:16
aheineckemh lfranci i also got my device yesterday, after some charging it booted fine maybe your device really is broken18:16
djszapilfranchi: have you measured the battery somehow ?18:17
djszapiwhether the battery is okay ?18:17
lfranchiif i had a meter i could, but i don't :p18:17
djszapiit got charged properly.18:17
lfranchiit's dead, jim.18:17
djszapiI have run out of the ideas..18:18
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djszapi--query-rd-mode -> does it say anything ?18:18
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djszapioh wait, there was a driver which had to be unloadded, but that was Linux..18:18
lfranchino, that waits for the usb device to be plugged in which it never finds, too18:18
djszapiand this is a mini usb cable you used previously and works fine I guess.18:19
lfranchiyeah, the one i used for the n818:19
aheineckemmh libraptor1 depends on libxsl1.1 which depends on libgcrypt11 >=1.4.2 which gets rejected by aegis because it's already installed, gnarf18:20
* lfranchi wonders if it's even worth sending back, or if i should just keep the brick18:21
djszapiaheinecke: an older version is already available on the platform that is not recent enough for some package ?18:21
aheineckedjszapi: yes18:21
aheineckebut i might have broken it by installing to many repos and now i have packages from strange sources where i removed the repos, mmh i'll probably just reflash and start from scratch again18:22
djszapilfranchi: I would make sure about the battery so that, it is getting charged properly.18:22
djszapilfranchi: other than that, I do not have more ideas..18:22
lfranchidjszapi: me neither :P18:22
djszapiaheinecke: if you can start with clean table, that is good ..18:23
djszapiaheinecke: yes it is indeed old.18:24
lfranchidjszapi: does the n8 use the same battery?18:25
lfranchiah, looks like it. trying that18:26
djszapiaheinecke: libxslt does not depend on the new version:
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djszapiaheinecke: the community repository has that package what you are mentioning.18:28
djszapiI am about to remove that from the community repository ...18:28
djszapithat messes up the things here.18:28
djszapiMohammadAG: ping18:30
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lfranchidjszapi: aha.18:32
lfranchilooks like it was a dead battery18:32
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djszapithe battery did not work in your N8 or the N8 batter worked in your N950 or both ?18:32
lfranchithe n8 worked in then95018:33
djszapirzr ping18:33
lfranchitrying the 950 one in the n8 now18:33
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djszapiaheinecke: actually we can remove libxslt from the community repository easily since the "official version" of that is also fine with libraptor118:33
aheineckedjszapi: cool18:34
djszapiand then it will work, you do not need to re-flash18:34
pinheiroso how does one get the console?18:34
lfranchiand yeah, batter doesn't load in the n818:34
djszapiI just need to find someone who can remove it since osc does not work here, it does not fetch all the packages..18:34
aheineckehehe to late for that :) already reflashed and installed development mode packages but thanks18:34
djszapipinheiro: terminal ?18:34
djszapiit was a statement ;)18:35
aheineckepinheiro: settings -> security -> development mode18:35
lfranchidjszapi: thanks for encouraging me to not give up :)18:35
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aheineckepinheiro: development mode will install terminal and openssh server18:36
djszapiaheinecke: could you please clone the repository if I give you admin right there ? Then you could delete it...Osc does not work here locally.18:36
pinheirodudes its traslated into suplier mode18:36
aheineckedjszapi: if you tell me how to do that :) i'm an obs newbie18:36
djszapi"osc up" only refreshes the already fetched packages.18:37
djszapiaheinecke: do you have a c-obs account ?18:37
aheineckedjszapi: yes aheinecke18:37
pinheirothe ssh was what i realy wanted18:37
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djszapipinheiro: yes, use developer account with the relevant password from the sdk app18:38
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*** radiofree has quit IRC18:38 there a way to remove the facebook and twitter apps?18:38
djszapiyes, but that is a security hole :p18:39
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svuoreladjszapi: erm ?18:40
djszapiif devel{su/sh} does not work, I doubt it can be uninstalled "officially" without a jailbreak.18:42
svuorelaoh. I have just tried thru the application manager thing18:42
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djszapiaheinecke: roger, libssh-dev is ready so one dependency left for kde-runtime :)19:00
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rzrdjszapi: congratz19:06
djszapirzr: hi, can you please remove libxslt ?19:07
xsachahow can i delete contacts on a nokia account that i synced to?19:07
djszapifrom the community repository, we do not need that anymore since available officially.19:07
xsachai just realised my n9 came with someone elses nokia account pre-loaded and it synced my contacts to their account19:08
djszapirzr: and the community repository libxslt messes up the things.19:08
rzrcant u do that too ?19:09
djszapican you tell me how to get that package locally ?19:09
djszapi"osc up" does not get it.19:09
djszapi"osc getbinaries" doesn ot work19:09
djszapi"osc getbinaries" ->
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djszapirzr ^19:11
rzrthis is the same one ^19:11
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djszapilibxslt is provided officially by Nokia19:12
rZrnot the one in my repo19:12
djszapiand that is good to go, we can remove it, otherwise we just get broken systems like above..19:12
rZrI just disabled it19:12
rZri am gone now19:12
djszapiok I will delete it then ..19:12
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aheineckedjszapi: thanks i got to go now but will try installing again later19:36
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faenilhi everyone :)19:56
djszapifaenil: o/19:57
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augustlanyone know when/if firefox is coming to the n9?20:54
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faenilit's already there20:55
faenilbut it's worse than the default browser imho20:55
MohammadAGThe UI's worse, the engine's better imo20:56
faenilbut it's definitely choppier20:58
faenilit's not as smooth as default browser20:59
augustlfaenil: where? Can't find it in the ovi store.20:59
augustlI'd love to try it out. To get my bookmars and history synced, if nothing else.20:59
augustlalso tried to find a deb via google, can't find anything.21:01
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augustlfaenil_: found that actually. Doesn't look like a very safe place to get debs from..21:02
augustlI don't deem ad powered 3rd party download sites particularly trusty.. ;)21:03
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faenil_I know, but that's one of the few sources for meego software atm ;)21:03
augustlkind of strange that mozilla put the effort into making a n9 build and don't have one available from somewhere on mozilla.org21:04
faenil_I know...21:04
faenil_I downloaded it from there :)21:04
augustlcool, I'll try it out then21:05
augustlodd, the download link inlines the file in the browser instead of downloading21:06
augustlugh and the site isn't curlable21:07
augustlheh just had to set the referer header21:08
augustl is served as text/plain, no wonder21:09
augustlhow do I install debs that I download on my desktop machine?21:09
djszapifaenil_: how is stuff ?21:10
djszapiMohammadAG: how can I use "osc genbinaries" properly for a package from the community repository ? Do you have an example command by hand ?21:10
faenil_djszapi: good ;) u?21:10
djszapifaenil_: very busy, but I like those activities :)21:11
faenil_djszapi: good :)21:11
MohammadAGdjszapi, never figured out osc tbh21:12
djszapiMohammadAG: I planned to delete a package, but I could not get it fetched :(21:13
ajalkaneI'm a bit lost how's best to save settings in harmattan. I'm wary of saving the settings each time user makes changes, I'd rather save them when user quits the program. But I'm not sure how to tap into that, the swipe down seems to kill the program without exiting Qt event loop21:27
ajalkanetrapping kill signal and saving from that seems not safe, or is it? What's the best practice in handling this?21:27
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Scifigajalkane, where are you storing the settings?21:30
ajalkaneScifig: QSetting21:31
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ScifigYep, I used QSettings to store settings to ini file. So far I don't have any interface to allow user to modify changes. Back to your question, IMO QSettings can take care of multiple setting(s) value changes. Why are you wary of saving the settings each time?21:34
ScifigFrom a user perspective I hate to see an Apply or Save button for settings (that is for Windows).21:35
ajalkaneScifig: I guess I'm wary because the performance might suffer, and/or writing to the storage many times unnecessary might degrade the flash memory. Maybe I'm being overly paranoid. But I'd rather have the settings saved only when the application is quit, that way there is no unnecessary saves.21:38
ajalkaneFor example, I have a list of items and the user can reorder the items in the list. It feels foolish to save all settings when the user reorders the items.21:39
ajalkaneBut I guess I rather take that approach if there is no easy solution21:40
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artemmadepends on the platform standards21:41
artemmaon mobile (symbian) instant setting save is the standard21:41
artemmathough list reordering could be an exception21:41
ScifigBut it depends on how time user would spend updating the settings21:41
artemmanew macos x standard is instant save for documents, not sure about settings21:42
artemmaolder mac os x (up to snow leopard) require explicit Apply always21:43
ajalkaneI haven't seen in Harmattan documents any standard about saving of settings21:43
Scifigartemma, I noticed that it is a standard in harmattan too.21:43
ajalkaneScifig: do you have a link to relevant section?21:43
Scifiglooking at the settings screen. Not in documentation21:43
artemmaI vaguely remember that exactly situation with list reordering can be exception that requires explicit Save on mobile. Just now sure where I've seen it21:44
artemma*not sure*21:44
ajalkaneScifig: yeah ok... but that still leaves the actual implementation unknown. You could just save when quitting the application, or saving immediately when changes are made. Either way, the user sees the behaviour the same (unless critical crash destroys the settings)21:44
artemmaas for harmattan if I remember correctly there is some way for definiting a settings page declaratively -> then you automatically follow system standards :)21:45
ajalkaneAh yes, so that they go to the Settings page. I'd rather not go that route.21:45
Scifigajalkane, how many setting(s) do you have? Are they simple strings/numbers of lists?21:48
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Scifig*or lists21:48
djszapiIs there a step by step guide for Harmattan how to deal with osc and the community repository ?21:48
ajalkaneScifig: the settings are simple strings and or numbers, sometimes lists of them. Not too big21:48
artemmaajalkane: wherever you implement it, you know system standard by now. It's up to you to see if there's good enough reason to override them :)21:49
ajalkaneartemma: I dunno about the system standard, at least I didn't see anything in MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan Developer Documentation about it. But I think what you assumed is correct. The sticking point still being list reordering :-P21:50
ajalkaneBut I think I'll just try to save the settings each time a change is done, and worry about optimizing later if there's a performance problem.21:51
artemmadocs are easier to find, but I trust what I see in system apps more than docs anyway ;)21:51
artemmausers won't read docs you know21:51
artemmabut they will learn how to use system apps21:51
Scifigpersonally I would see bug-free UI with slight performance hit (instant-save) than buggy implementation (trap kill signal)21:52
ajalkaneartemma: hehe true... but like I said, the actual implementation is what I'm interested in, it can look the same to user21:52
artemmafunny, right now I am discussing with my designer about how to do settings page for our qml app :)21:52
djszapidoes someone know how to check out a new repository on Harmattan from c-obs, like the community repository ?21:52
ajalkaneScifig: true that21:53
djszapiby using osc for sure.21:53
ajalkaneartemma: the thing is... the implementation might make a slight change to the buttons to use. For example, a dialog that doesn't immediately save the settings might have buttons "Accept" and "Cancel". However if the settings are immediately saved it would be more logical to use "Save" and "Cancel".21:54
ajalkaneI've seen both kinds of buttons on harmattan21:54
ScifigI donno how your application looks, but if you follow the tree sequence like the system settings, then you can also put some list-reorder logic in back button21:54
artemmaI would consider a "serious" change worth an Apply, Save or Retype. Something like changing security code or order of startup apps. Everything else should be as instant as system settings are21:55
artemmaif settings are imnediately saved there are no buttons at all :) Except for Back maybe21:55
ScifigBasically use back button as apply/save.21:55
ajalkaneScifig: at the moment the main view of my application contains a list of items, with arrows to reorder them21:55
ajalkaneBut if there's saves each time reordering takes place, maybe I should have the reordering view be a different sub-view accessible for example from menu. With accept/cancel when happy with changes.21:56
Scifigartemma, You either have Apply or not. It confuses use when to hit apply or not regarding your "serious change" comment. IMO21:56
Scifigajalkane, any screenshot?21:57
ajalkaneartemma: I mean, if you make changes, but do not want to save them, isn't cancel good? If you're happy with the changes and want to "commit" them, then either "Save" or "Accept" is good?21:57
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ajalkaneScifig: sorry not right now... I could make an example but I have to hit the bed in a minute21:58
Scifigno problem21:58
artemmaSerious settings to a separate page. Certainly you don't want to mix settings that need Apply/Cancel with the ones that ddon't need it21:59
* artemma is leaving for a salsa party :)21:59
Scifigartemma, +121:59
artemmaanybody from Tampere here?21:59
npmcan someone please build this for harmattan :-)
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ScifigHeavy-duty re-ordering lists etc can happen in a separate screen, that can be accessed from the main light-weight (instant-save) settings page using separate icons/buttons/whatever for each list you want to modify? How does that sound?22:01
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djszapilfranchi: -> if you are interested in that, if not, sorry for spamming. Writing the topic, atm22:49
GeneralAntillesI don't think carriers turning down the N950 had anything to do with the hinge.22:50
GeneralAntillesI've never seen such bad reception on a phone.22:50
lfranchidjszapi: most likely not, going to another conference thing a week or two before22:50
djszapilfranchi: ah okay, good luck with that.22:51
djszapihave fun*22:52
lfranchiwill do :)22:54
djszapilfranchi: it might be that, it turns out a general KDE Mobile Sprint, we will see ;)22:54
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SpeedEvilGeneralAntilles: It seems variable here.23:01
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MohammadAGGeneralAntilles, ever used an iPhone 4? :P23:18
faenil_so isn't it a fw bug? it's the antenna itself?23:19
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berndhsi'm sure you can fix it with duct tape23:30
faenil_I have just noticed I get less signal than on my N823:31
faenil_I can't keep the n950 in my pocket, I have to keep it on the desk, otherwise I lose signal..23:32
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GeneralAntillesMohammadAG, this is worse.23:36
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* GeneralAntilles completely missed this:
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