| lardman | qml gurus, I guess it's possible to change an Image element's source property at runtime and it will automatically load the new image? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| special | correct | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | special: have you ever played with weird stuff like LLVM? | 00:00 |
| special | Stskeeps: not directly. Why? | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | special: i have a crazy idea.. | 00:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:01 |
| lardman | cool, thanks | 00:01 |
| * lardman must now work out what he's done to prevent that happening | 00:01 | |
| special | with LLVM, hmm.. | 00:01 |
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| ajalkane | Too bad LLVM can not be used to have a kind efficient VM for CPU agnostic C/C++ code. | 00:19 |
| SpeedEvil | tccboot | 00:20 |
| ajalkane | About Tizen and HTML5 the only thing that makes sense to me is that the exact same program will run on ARM and Intel CPUs. | 00:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is awesome, because it avoids the writer having to recompile it twice. | 00:21 |
| ajalkane | hehe... well, I think in practice devs are a lazy bunch of people. So N-amount of CPU architectures in practice means fragmentation if it's up to the devs to do cross-compiling. | 00:22 |
| berndhs | most user-level applications are completely unaware of what CPU they run on | 00:22 |
| ajalkane | Sure they are, but most SDKs compile to specific CPU architecture. Of course if the SDK compiles and packages at the same time for all relevant architectures the problem is gone. But I guess that's not realistic, even though Apple I think has something like that | 00:24 |
| berndhs | I don't think there is a good way of making a single package for all ARM versions | 00:25 |
| berndhs | what Apple does is just ship a bunch of copies in the same file | 00:25 |
| ajalkane | Ah, the different ARM versions... I'm only vaguely aware that there might be problems between ARM architectures. | 00:26 |
| berndhs | ARM gives you the benefit of a wide variety of CPUs | 00:27 |
| ajalkane | Anyway, it can get hairy quickly, so that's the part I understand about going with HTML5. | 00:28 |
| ajalkane | Especially I understand Intel pushing HTML5. ARM is the dominant mobile architecture at the moment, but if the apps are done in HTML5 it's a non-issue to change to x86 when they're mature enough | 00:29 |
| wmarone | or whenever Intel gets their power consumption down to the point that it's viable in a handset | 00:30 |
| * SpeedEvil looks at his intel mobile device that gets 12h battery life when on. | 00:31 | |
| SpeedEvil | (386ex, Garmin GPS12) | 00:31 |
| ajalkane | I'm kind of divided on this whole native/VM/interpreted code on handsets. On one hand I think it's foolish to waste energy on running VM on handsets. On the other hand is that doing it that way gives platform agnosticism | 00:32 |
| berndhs | people in the high-tech industries at the leading edge are very adverse to change | 00:32 |
| berndhs | once they find one way of doing things, they tend to stick with it | 00:32 |
| berndhs | I find that strange | 00:32 |
| ajalkane | To make it even more puzzling, harmattan is "native", yet if you use QML you pretty much go into the interpreted power wasting territory, yet get none of the portability advantages. | 00:32 |
| SpeedEvil | Well - there is increasing abstraction from hardware, whihc is indeed almost as bad as VMs | 00:33 |
| leinir | ajalkane: so... are you doing any business logic in your qml? | 00:33 |
| leinir | because then you're doing it wrong ;) | 00:33 |
| leinir | (no matter what the marketing drones will tell you) | 00:33 |
| berndhs | I made a few applications in Qt/QML, they run find on my x86_64 fedora machine and on a N950-harmattan | 00:33 |
| berndhs | so I don't know what the big deal is with the architecture | 00:34 |
| ajalkane | leinir: no I'm not doing any business logic, but most mobile software are dead stupid (IMO) on business logic. | 00:34 |
| ajalkane | I mean, I do as little as possible in QML | 00:34 |
| ajalkane | yet if I'd profile the app I'd be surprised if in normal usage the QML part wasn't using the most power. | 00:35 |
| TSCHAKeee | sigh. | 00:35 |
| ajalkane | Of course this is highly application specific. | 00:35 |
| leinir | So.. have you actually profiled it? | 00:35 |
| * TSCHAKeee walks away from this conversation. another asshole talking out of his...ass... | 00:35 | |
| leinir | Or are you, in fact, just ranting aimlessly ;) | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Then there is the fun part of GPU accellerated shininess. | 00:36 |
| SpeedEvil | If your app needs to refresh the screen while it's asleep - the power goes way up, as you drop to sftware. | 00:36 |
| ajalkane | No I haven't. But since at the moment the app just wakes up once in a while to do calculations, it's not going to spend much time in C++. The UI part where user does stuff should be more demanding. Just guess work, so maybe I'm worrying about nothing. | 00:37 |
| ajalkane | Haha, basically yes I'm ranting aimlessly. Or more accurately, voicing my worries that might have no real basis. publicly. | 00:37 |
| leinir | Good, good, just so we know where we stand *giggles* :) | 00:38 |
| TSCHAKeee | the Qt engineers have been doing ridiculous amounts of work making QML faster and faster with each iteration. | 00:38 |
| MohammadAG | doesn't change the fact it's interpretted | 00:39 |
| MohammadAG | 13.6MBs of RAM for an IRC app is a lot | 00:40 |
| TSCHAKeee | that's okay for some parts of software. So far, we've been able to keep our QML extremely fast | 00:40 |
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| TSCHAKeee | MohammadAG: and how much java app development have you done? ;) | 00:40 |
| MohammadAG | even at startup? | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | none | 00:41 |
| MohammadAG | I only do C/C++ | 00:41 |
| ajalkane | I'm just playing devil's advocate here, and raising my own suspicions here... but I don't see what's the difference between QML and JavaScript? I don't mean in programming efficiency, but in power consumption etc. | 00:41 |
| TSCHAKeee | ... | 00:41 |
| ajalkane | There's been much work making JS more efficient, just like QML | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | ajalkane: qml uses javascript | 00:42 |
| ajalkane | If I dislike using JS as main API on mobiles because it's interpreted and inefficient, why am I not doing the same with using QML? | 00:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | you mean, that other than the fact that QML is...a declarative list of properties....JavaScript is an imperative scripting language? | 00:42 |
| ajalkane | I know Stskeeps | 00:42 |
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| Stskeeps | i guess it's DOM vs QML rather | 00:43 |
| ajalkane | TSCHAKeee: that's true. I can't claim to know what are the real tradeoffs with QML. But I do know that QML based apps start MUCH slower than MTF based, and use much more memory. | 00:44 |
| ajalkane | Stskeeps: good point | 00:45 |
| Stskeeps | DOM has to support a lot of old shit, qml doesn't have to | 00:45 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:45 |
| ajalkane | Yeah. I do like QML. Never liked DOM :). | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | and i guess qml might be made with eventual scenegraph in mind | 00:47 |
| berndhs | if they would just compile the QML, its static anyway for most cases | 00:47 |
| ajalkane | I hope, and believe, that there's still much that can be optimized in QML. | 00:49 |
| berndhs | my impression is that 4.8 is a lot faster than 4.7 on the same machine | 00:49 |
| ajalkane | Nice. On N950 I have no qualms about the speed of QML based apps. But the starting time of them is irritating. If that can be improved, great. | 00:50 |
| lardman | hmm, is one not supposed to use the Label component?: The Label component is used to display textual information throughout the UI. The Label is a private component and not intended for 3rd party developers. | 00:54 |
| ajalkane | lardman: documentation mistake. Ignore it. | 00:54 |
| lardman | ok | 00:55 |
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| Stskeeps | lardman: so what do people typically code DSP with? C? | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | or how does it look | 01:05 |
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| SpeedEvil | C can be used, in some cases | 01:09 |
| Stskeeps | but i guess there's no typical standard for it | 01:09 |
| Stskeeps | like common dsp functions | 01:10 |
| SpeedEvil | As far as I'm aware no, but it's really not an area I've been involved with | 01:10 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: yeah | 01:15 |
| lardman | C or ASM, or probably C then ASM optimisations | 01:15 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 01:15 |
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| lardman | DSP functions, on the Ti stuff at least are either macros that wrap asm calls or calls into a library provided with the chip | 01:16 |
| lardman | e.g. calls to do jpeg operations and the like which are pretty standard | 01:16 |
| lardman | Stskeeps: why do you ask? | 01:18 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: just crazy ideas | 01:18 |
| Stskeeps | noticed llvm had a potential c64x backend | 01:18 |
| lardman | In fact you'll probably find that people code with MATLAB, then use the realtime target to generate asm for the chip | 01:19 |
| lardman | oh right, interesting | 01:19 |
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| lardman | I feel like I might just about have tamed the mBarcode-lite QML interface | 01:32 |
| SpeedEvil | :) | 01:33 |
| lardman | note the "just about" ;) | 01:34 |
| alterego | lardman: have you seen my barcode reader qml plugin. | 01:34 |
| alterego | ? | 01:34 |
| lardman | no I've not, where does one find it? | 01:34 |
| lardman | and what backend do you use? | 01:35 |
| alterego | zbarcode | 01:35 |
| lardman | zbarcode, hmm, I guess that's new? | 01:35 |
| Stskeeps | don't you mean zbar? :P | 01:36 |
| alterego | Sorry, zbar .. | 01:36 |
| alterego | :) | 01:36 |
| lardman | ah ok | 01:36 |
| lardman | ZXing is pretty good | 01:36 |
| alterego | Aaaany way, I really am going now :P | 01:36 |
| lardman | I'll push the library and source somewhere | 01:36 |
| alterego | ttyal | 01:36 |
| lardman | cu alterego | 01:37 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: https://gitorious.org/project-grande/declarative-barcode-reader-plugin | 01:37 |
| Stskeeps | (i suppose) | 01:37 |
| alterego | That reminds me, I really need to push the update to that :x | 01:37 |
| Stskeeps | get some sleep before your gf kills you | 01:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:38 |
| alterego | good plan. | 01:38 |
| * alterego disappears | 01:38 | |
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| lardman | Stskeeps: so does Project-Grande have a test application? | 01:45 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: working our way there, some things to be done :) | 01:46 |
| * lardman wonders to himself why ZXing doesn't want to decode datamatrix barcodes | 01:46 | |
| lardman | Stskeeps: cool, I look forward to seeing it | 01:46 |
| Stskeeps | at least declarative barcode plugin has examples | 01:46 |
| lardman | yep I spotted that, looks good | 01:46 |
| lardman | thoough ZBar doesn't support datamatrix, which is a problem potentially | 01:47 |
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| * lardman also calls it quits for the night | 01:50 | |
| lardman | catch you all tomorrow | 01:50 |
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| TSCHAKeee | has anyone found a vendor in the US that has the N9? | 02:52 |
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| ieatlint | just go to your closest nokia office and beg/threaten | 03:43 |
| ieatlint | worked for me | 03:43 |
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| rm_you | RST38h: moo | 05:44 |
| npm | Stskeeps: DSP in C using functional programming: http://faust.grame.fr/ | 05:59 |
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| sivang | morning all | 10:05 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 10:05 |
| sivang | hey Stskeeps | 10:06 |
| sivang | I'm interested to know how the ssh root@localhost provides "real" root ? (nice thing about it one can do it on the device itself) | 10:06 |
| Stskeeps | probably not, less privileges | 10:07 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: right, not a problem, but much better than devel-su / develsh et al | 10:07 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: reboot can only be issued from ssh | 10:07 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: trying to understand the difference in ENV | 10:07 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 10:07 |
| sivang | also, the deelsh seems to not be trusted even though it comes from Nokia sources | 10:07 |
| sivang | which breaks my whole upgrade, anyone an idea to solve this? | 10:08 |
| sivang | *develsh | 10:08 |
| sivang | e.g. I tried it from the device itself, and I can see the package is downloaded from *.nokia.com but is rejected as being untrusted, I could wait for it to be fixed by Nokia but I was wondering if there was something quick to overcome this | 10:10 |
| * sivang thinks about the releaxed exec maybe | 10:10 | |
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| sivang | seif ? that I met in Desktop Summit? :) | 10:16 |
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| MohammadAG | you can reboot from on device... | 10:29 |
| MohammadAG | it's just that /sbin/reboot is not in $PATH | 10:29 |
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| lardman | morning | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | morn | 11:04 |
| lardman | I had a look at your grande code, what are your plans re. state detection? (I'll check the nomenclature) | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | let's take that in #grande | 11:19 |
| lardman | ah ok | 11:19 |
| * lardman wonders how to debug QML ListViews and models | 11:21 | |
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| faenil | good morning people! :) | 12:03 |
| mzanetti | hmm... I'm using the QML ContactModel which has "decoration" property. But how do I display a QPixmap in QML? | 12:04 |
| mzanetti | faenil: good morning :) | 12:04 |
| faenil | mzanetti: what about http://doc.qt.nokia.com/stable/qdeclarativeimageprovider.html ? | 12:06 |
| mzanetti | faenil: I get the QPixmap from the ContactModel... | 12:06 |
| mzanetti | faenil: I know how to do that in C++. Thing is, that there is ContactModel in QML and somehow I can't believt that I need to code a C++ bridge just to convert the QPixmap to a QImage | 12:07 |
| faenil | mmm don't know sorry... | 12:07 |
| mzanetti | faenil: np | 12:08 |
| faenil | which code returns the qpixmap? | 12:08 |
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| faenil | there's no doc about decoration... | 12:11 |
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| gri | mzanetti, Trying to get the rounded contact images? | 12:26 |
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| sivang | so nobody has an idea how to solve develsh not getting installed since Aegis thinks it came from unknown source? | 12:39 |
| sivang | I'd like to fix ti to go on with the upgrade | 12:39 |
| faenil | you sure it's aegis? | 12:39 |
| sivang | faenil: there's an error message, | 12:40 |
| sivang | faenil: "Aegis reject package X due to coming from untrusted source" or somesuch | 12:40 |
| sivang | faenil: I can fetch the exact message, just a sec. | 12:40 |
| faenil | :O | 12:40 |
| faenil | I have the same problem with develsh not being able to update itself | 12:40 |
| faenil | but I get no error, just update failed in the gui, and nothing in syslog | 12:41 |
| sivang | faenil: do you have any idea why ssh root@localhost gives proper root (that can reboot) and nothing similar on the device? | 12:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Where did you ge the develsh package? | 12:41 |
| sivang | faenil: oh , I always go back to the console on the device it self | 12:41 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: Harmattan got it | 12:41 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: I did not change anything in the configs | 12:41 |
| faenil | I got it from device updates | 12:41 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: there were 20 proposed updates, | 12:41 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: and I just allowed them to get installed | 12:41 |
| sivang | same as faenil | 12:42 |
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| MohammadAG | sivang, root can reboot | 12:56 |
| MohammadAG | any root | 12:56 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: I could not with devel-sh nor with develsu | 13:00 |
| gri | huh, I got no updates except openssh-client and server this week | 13:00 |
| sivang | gri: did you manage to install develsh upgrade? | 13:01 |
| gri | the last update of develsh I got was more than a week ago | 13:01 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, devel-su, /sbin/reboot | 13:02 |
| gri | sivang, I have 1.14 installed, you? | 13:03 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: why is the shell env for ssh and devel-su different? any idea? | 13:04 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: more to ask, how are they different? | 13:04 |
| sivang | e.g. ssh root@ == devel-su | 13:05 |
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| * sivang wonders if using aegis-developer-mode with apt-get upgrade would allow him top fix the develsh upgrade issue | 13:06 | |
| gri | sivang, What's the version you're trying to install? | 13:07 |
| MohammadAG | /sbin isn't in $PATH by default | 13:07 |
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| sivang | MohammadAG: right, and in ssh it is? | 13:08 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: can you also resend me the link for the Hebrew virtualkb please? :) | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | http://forum.meego.com/showthread.php?t=4614 | 13:08 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, edit the .profile so it adds /sbin to $PATH | 13:08 |
| Venemo | mornin | 13:09 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: yes, I was just baffled why the difference between the ssh bash exec and the "on device" one by devel-su | 13:09 |
| sivang | hey Venemo ! | 13:09 |
| Venemo | hey sivang :) | 13:09 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: thanks again for the link, still in Jeru btw? :) | 13:09 |
| * SpeedEvil finds it odd that 'The SIms' isn't more promoted in the store | 13:10 | |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: lol | 13:10 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: it is PG13 game | 13:10 |
| SpeedEvil | Also that angry birds isn't there at all. | 13:10 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: it is here all over | 13:10 |
| sivang | (angry) | 13:10 |
| MohammadAG | god abill_uk is being retarded | 13:11 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, that's not news. | 13:11 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: The extra levels - in the store? | 13:11 |
| Venemo | if I were a moderator, I would've banned him long time ago | 13:11 |
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| sivang | SpeedEvil: ah, do not know about this - the game is promoted here more than Apple | 13:13 |
| sivang | which for me is nice | 13:13 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: devel-su is the canonical way to get root on the device for my info? :) | 13:14 |
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| sivang | faenil: http://pastebin.com/nKeWXujr | 13:15 |
| sivang | others, et al | 13:15 |
| sivang | now I am going to try with the relaxed exe | 13:15 |
| faenil | I get another error here | 13:15 |
| faenil | cannot open apt/ don't remember what | 13:15 |
| sivang | also, is there a bug report somewhere for the task closing? | 13:18 |
| Venemo | sivang, what task closing? | 13:18 |
| sivang | sometimes, when you close a task from the left, all of the others lose representation on the dashboard but remain working | 13:18 |
| sivang | I guess it is just a UI issue | 13:18 |
| sivang | open some apps | 13:18 |
| sivang | in the background | 13:18 |
| Venemo | heh | 13:19 |
| sivang | now instead of closing from right to left | 13:19 |
| Venemo | weird | 13:19 |
| sivang | close from left to right | 13:19 |
| sivang | see what happens? | 13:19 |
| Venemo | I have never noticed such an issue. | 13:19 |
| sivang | reopen the task switcing dashboard, and they are there - now every task you clsoe causes the whole list of them disappear | 13:19 |
| * sivang needs to come up with reproduction scenario | 13:19 | |
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| sivang | aegis developer mode does not help | 13:21 |
| * sivang tries disabling non store sources. | 13:21 | |
| sivang | the shell on the device from wifi feels much quicker and nicer than on the N900 | 13:21 |
| sivang | http://pastebin.com/VBYceana | 13:23 |
| * sivang goes to purge the pkg | 13:23 | |
| Venemo | 'rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*' | 13:23 |
| sivang | oops | 13:24 |
| sivang | now that was not a good idea | 13:24 |
| * sivang screams | 13:24 | |
| * sivang tries to understand if this could brick the device whe it reboots | 13:24 | |
| sivang | Venemo: tried clearing the cache for 10 times alrady, did not help | 13:24 |
| Venemo | hmm | 13:25 |
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| gri | sivang, open /var/lib/aegis/restok/restok.conf | 13:25 |
| gri | search for develsh | 13:25 |
| gri | and delete the Source: line | 13:25 |
| gri | and try reinstalling | 13:25 |
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| sivang | gri: what does that mean? | 13:26 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, yes | 13:26 |
| sivang | workrave is going to kill me if I don't take a break | 13:26 |
| sivang | Well, nothing happened. | 13:26 |
| MohammadAG | apparently Google got licensed to show Israel's maps | 13:26 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: in response to ? :) | 13:26 |
| * sivang feels out of context | 13:26 | |
| *** vladest has quit IRC | 13:26 | |
| gri | sivang, In beta2 you can trick the origin and replace packages | 13:26 |
| MohammadAG | <sivang> MohammadAG: devel-su is the canonical way to get root on the device for my info? :) | 13:26 |
| *** vladest_ is now known as vladest | 13:27 | |
| sivang | gri: but I did not replace any package.. | 13:27 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: oh, sarcasm on Saturday :) | 13:27 |
| sivang | anyway | 13:27 |
| sivang | removing the package helped | 13:27 |
| gri | sivang, On my device, develsh is from unknown origin, not from com.nokia.maemo | 13:27 |
| gri | wonder how you got that | 13:27 |
| sivang | gri: I removed the com.nokia.maemo package, went to the app manager, it said "develsh failed upgrade" I redid the upgrade. Profut | 13:28 |
| sivang | Profit even | 13:28 |
| sivang | gri: but when I removed the develsh package from SSH the ssh session closed the same instance. | 13:28 |
| MohammadAG | YES! | 13:29 |
| MohammadAG | Israel's maps finally show on Google Maps' API | 13:29 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: they do? | 13:29 |
| gri | sivang, sure, since you were logged in via develsh | 13:29 |
| sivang | gri: ah right | 13:29 |
| gri | sivang, the developer has develsh as login shell | 13:29 |
| sivang | gri: I did change to it | 13:29 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, yes, as of this week | 13:29 |
| MohammadAG | they didn't work last week at least when I got lost in Haifa | 13:29 |
| * gri only uses "user" instead of developer for testing .. | 13:29 | |
| rantom | Quick question | 13:30 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: wow! nice, so we can now use it for creating location based services! | 13:30 |
| sivang | rantom: what a funny nick you have | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | yeah | 13:30 |
| rantom | Is anyone else having issues showing the Twitter-feed in Feeds? | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | rantom, disabled it since it flooded my feed, but it works fine | 13:30 |
| rantom | I haven't got the feed back for a few days | 13:30 |
| MohammadAG | anyone making a Google Maps app? | 13:31 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: I am developing a location based social cool app for parties, and I was wondering how'd I would use OVI maps since they do not map Israel at all | 13:31 |
| rantom | sivang: How come? | 13:31 |
| sivang | rantom: like, Random, but on the ranting way of the word | 13:31 |
| MohammadAG | sivang, why ovi maps then? | 13:31 |
| rantom | MohammadAG: Yeah, that happened to me too. I cleaned it (remove all feed) but since then it hasn't come back | 13:31 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: I can't use it then - but IO want something for the whole entire world | 13:31 |
| MohammadAG | I wish Nokia would get the license google got | 13:31 |
| rantom | sivang: mm | 13:31 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: harma asks me for "uncertified sources" on openssh-server, is that okay? | 13:33 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: as well for teminal, and energy profiler | 13:33 |
| MohammadAG | yeah, I guess | 13:33 |
| sivang | but aren't they from trusted sources? | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: openstreetmap in principle | 13:33 |
| rantom | I'll try to figure it out -> | 13:33 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: mobility can ust it as a data source right? | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: however, if you're just using tiles, then if you get a very popular app, you face getting banned - as the tileservers are a resource for mappers. | 13:34 |
| sivang | okay same issue holds for the rest of these 3 pkg updates | 13:34 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: from OSMs ? | 13:34 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: hmm, so I need a different solution | 13:34 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: Cloudmade cmmercially supply OSM tiles, and you can also setup your own server to serve the tiles. | 13:34 |
| *** Smith has joined #harmattan | 13:34 | |
| *** djszapi has joined #harmattan | 13:34 | |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: setting up my own maps server? | 13:35 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: do you know a link / howtow / examples? | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tile_usage_policy | 13:35 |
| sivang | writing this app is going to be so much work :) | 13:35 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: I thought it is enough to create my own GIS venue database and just use a map service to display it on the handset | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: I don't happen to - it does require a fairly beefy machine though. Wander over the wiki, or ask over on #osm on irc.oftc.net | 13:36 |
| *** djszapi has left #harmattan | 13:36 | |
| SpeedEvil | GIS venue database? | 13:37 |
| *** artemma has quit IRC | 13:39 | |
| rantom | Got it back, removed and re-added the Twitter to accounts | 13:41 |
| rantom | -> | 13:41 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: just to have a db of places, that's all, but I need to be able to show them on a map | 13:41 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: I thought I'd use QtMobility for that, but it does only sypport OVI and OSM right? | 13:41 |
| sivang | or maybe google maps as well? | 13:41 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: ^ | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | Don't know | 13:42 |
| sivang | what is the way to install new pkgs ? | 13:42 |
| sivang | I now lost both the terminal and ssh server is not responding as seems to have stopped :) | 13:42 |
| sivang | what is the 'allow installation from non store sources" what sources does it use for those instals? | 13:44 |
| sivang | "openssh server: application incompatible with other installed applications" | 13:45 |
| sivang | seems there's an breakage and we need to wait for ti to get fixed | 13:45 |
| * sivang does the unthinkable and reboots | 13:50 | |
| *** vladest_ has joined #harmattan | 13:54 | |
| Venemo | https://twitter.com/#!/ceoStephenElop - is it only me or he is really trolling us? | 13:54 |
| *** vladest has quit IRC | 13:55 | |
| *** vladest_ is now known as vladest | 13:55 | |
| sivang | anybody has an idea how to install new package onto the device? | 13:56 |
| * sivang does not mind reflshing to get beta 2 fw | 13:56 | |
| Venemo | sivang, 'dpkg -i mypackage.deb' | 13:56 |
| Venemo | sivang, if it's borked, reflash might be a good idea | 13:56 |
| sivang | Venemo: not borked at all, working an all | 13:57 |
| * RST38h suspects that at this stage, reflash is the only good idea | 13:57 | |
| sivang | Venemo: just no terminal and no ssh | 13:57 |
| sivang | Venemo: due to the upgrade | 13:57 |
| sivang | how do you reflash? Is there a way to do a backup? ;) | 13:58 |
| * sivang googles | 13:59 | |
| Venemo | sivang, Settings/Sync&Backup/Backup | 13:59 |
| RST38h | Venemo: this is no real Elop | 14:00 |
| Venemo | RST38h, which one is the real? | 14:00 |
| sivang | Venemo: ok, thanks although I do not have too much stuff there I'll backup and copy over USB | 14:01 |
| * sivang is happy to have his first reflash | 14:01 | |
| Venemo | sivang, do you run 34-2? | 14:01 |
| sivang | so reflashing is the way to upgrade to beta 2 fw right? | 14:01 |
| Venemo | sivang, yes. | 14:01 |
| * sivang is so stupid | 14:01 | |
| SpeedEvil | https://twitter.com/#!/selop | 14:02 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil :D | 14:02 |
| RST38h | Speed: Somehow, they look pretty much the same =) | 14:02 |
| sivang | Venemo: should have done some more reading before :) | 14:02 |
| SpeedEvil | :/ | 14:02 |
| RST38h | "...quoted Sun Tzu 'We believe in ourselves' and in our ability to execute war against our strategy..." | 14:03 |
| sivang | faenil: for the record, Aegis is not the blame - the problem is that I tried to install new package built with the new SDK without reflashing the fw first | 14:03 |
| sivang | faenil: if you reflash as well to beta2 , it will work perfectly | 14:04 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, maybe the fake accounts also belong to him :D | 14:04 |
| Venemo | SpeedEvil, if I were a CEO, I would definitely make a parody twitter account for myself | 14:04 |
| RST38h | sivang: Ok. Reflash the fw already. | 14:04 |
| sivang | RST38h: lol | 14:04 |
| sivang | who has topic rights on the channel? | 14:04 |
| Venemo | sivang, DocScrutinizer & hiemanshu | 14:05 |
| RST38h | sivang: Please,at least keep your problems out of the topic, ok? =) | 14:05 |
| sivang | faenil: Laszlo helped me solve this thang | 14:05 |
| sivang | faenil: :) | 14:05 |
| Venemo | sivang, http://www.developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.com/id/db230178-aa63-4c73-ba7f-20930da13cad/Nokia_N950_OneClickFlashers.html | 14:05 |
| *** djszapi has joined #harmattan | 14:05 | |
| djszapi | sivang: could you manage the aegis bug after I said ? :D | 14:06 |
| sivang | RST38h: am I the last to upgrade to beta2? I think this pitfall should be in the channel's topic :) | 14:06 |
| sivang | djszapi: it is not Aegis, it is my bug not being able to RTFM for once! :) | 14:06 |
| Venemo | hey djszapi :) | 14:06 |
| djszapi | sivang: the fact is that 1) It must be aegis bug!! 2) If there is nothing in the log about aegis, then it is again aegis bug, because it does not log well, right ? :))))) | 14:07 |
| sivang | topic+= "Don't upgrade before you've reflashed to fw beta2, for otherwise you would reflash anyways" :-) | 14:07 |
| sivang | djszapi: actually, aegis did log - but was doing that for the rigth reason, it had to be newer to understand the new sdk packages are okay. | 14:07 |
| faenil | sivang: sure, I never said it was aegis :) | 14:07 |
| *** joppu_ is now known as joppu | 14:07 | |
| djszapi | sivang: oh it is always aegis, you do not know this channel :) | 14:07 |
| * sivang feels the warmth :) | 14:07 | |
| faenil | sivang: I also sent the link to djszapi to let him check | 14:07 |
| * sivang takes a deep breath | 14:08 | |
| sivang | faenil+ | 14:08 |
| faenil | sivang: and djszapi said it was okay, and the system was screwed ;) | 14:08 |
| djszapi | that is impossible, it is aegis!! :) | 14:08 |
| sivang | LOLOL | 14:08 |
| djszapi | when can we go to protest in front of Nokia ? :) | 14:09 |
| sivang | Venemo++ on parody account for myself | 14:09 |
| * sivang wishes he were a CTO | 14:09 | |
| Venemo | sivang :) | 14:09 |
| sivang | of a boating company | 14:09 |
| faenil | I don't know how to say this in english but, don't make all people the same. If lots of people trolls, lots of other people don't...so just try to focus on people who don't...that's my advice. | 14:09 |
| sivang | such a fool I am. | 14:10 |
| sivang | faenil+++ | 14:10 |
| * sivang checked the fw in about and just disregarded it | 14:10 | |
| RST38h | yes,faenil, people divide into trolls and food for trolls | 14:10 |
| djszapi | there was a guy yesterday entering the channel with the first sentences, I have a network problem, I suspect it is aegis. The guy did not even have syslog on his gadget. I do not know how he could provide it is aegis, but funny :)))) | 14:10 |
| RST38h | so, let us ignore the trolls and concentrate on the troll food | 14:11 |
| djszapi | prove* | 14:11 |
| Venemo | djszapi, it has became a sort of "fashion" here to blame Aegis for everything :( | 14:11 |
| RST38h | I would even dare to say, LET US TROLL 'EM TO DEATH!!! =) | 14:11 |
| sivang | djszapi: I wonder how he got a device | 14:11 |
| sivang | RST38h: you mean troll the trolls? :) | 14:11 |
| sivang | who has access to the topic? | 14:12 |
| sivang | I am dead serious now | 14:12 |
| djszapi | Venemo: yes, I know. This made a sort of unhappy atmosphere here. | 14:12 |
| sivang | please help us make this place more cozy | 14:12 |
| sivang | ;) | 14:12 |
| Venemo | djszapi, yeah. | 14:12 |
| RST38h | Venemo: that is normal for any disrutive, unpredictable piece of technology | 14:12 |
| RST38h | Venemo:users get paranoid and start blaming everything onit | 14:12 |
| sivang | RST38h++ | 14:13 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I need help with the channel's topic | 14:13 |
| RST38h | Venemo: which damages the reputation of the product | 14:13 |
| Venemo | RST38h, yeah, unfortunately | 14:13 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: let's add a IMPORTANT note that before trying latest upgrade, make sure you are on fw 34-2 and only then do it | 14:13 |
| djszapi | Venemo: there was also a guy (clearly remembering), he could not make a debian package from clean build, and was saying, it must be aegis. I spent couple of hours with him, and after that he said, oh I did a clean build and it is not okay. | 14:13 |
| Venemo | :D | 14:13 |
| sivang | RST38h, djszapi , Venemo : we would overcome this. We have an amazing product | 14:13 |
| RST38h | Venemo: Nokia should have fired lawyers and platsec peoplefirst, but looks like they started with the marketing | 14:14 |
| sivang | RST38h, djszapi , Venemo : We have passion for it | 14:14 |
| djszapi | Venemo: there was a guy swearing aegis for /hours/, and the problem was that he changed the hashbang to a wrong one in the maintainer script | 14:14 |
| Venemo | djszapi, in fact, I still admire your patience that you display for these kinds of people. | 14:14 |
| sivang | djszapi: how did he get a device? | 14:14 |
| djszapi | Venemo: so general debian packaging issue, but was swearing about aegis, and many stories like that I could enumerate I experienced :D :D | 14:14 |
| sivang | :-D | 14:14 |
| sivang | I think a shall test and a small c coding test would have been in place for getting the device :-p | 14:14 |
| sivang | one click flashers.. | 14:15 |
| RST38h | sivang: what "latest upgrade" are you talking about, anyway? | 14:15 |
| sivang | I wanted to do qLasher | 14:15 |
| Venemo | djszapi, yeah. | 14:15 |
| sivang | RST38h: all over devel-* , profiling and power utitiles, and some more stuff like terminal and ssh | 14:15 |
| sivang | RST38h: probably a new build against the new fw | 14:15 |
| sivang | I propose troll watch | 14:16 |
| sivang | let's take turns in gaurds, like in the army | 14:16 |
| sivang | :-D | 14:16 |
| sivang | RST38h: but I did not power up my device since I got it, as I had to deal with other non important stuff like real life before I could attend to it properly. | 14:17 |
| djszapi | Venemo: there was also a guy, who did not like something, and we changed the policy according to his idea, and he still kept swearing :D :D :D | 14:17 |
| sivang | djszapi: problem is that some people got used to Nokia being the most open in linux on mobile, now this gets back at us | 14:17 |
| Venemo | djszapi, lol | 14:17 |
| djszapi | sivang: they are not obligated to use something they do not like, right ? | 14:17 |
| djszapi | sivang: you were there at the desktop summit, lot of kde developers loved this platform as it is, right ? | 14:18 |
| sivang | djszapi: they know that if they tell this to Apple or Google nobody would be there to listen :-D | 14:18 |
| sivang | djszapi: yes, they were thrilled at it and at the possiblity of having KDE mobile with it | 14:18 |
| faenil | be back later, lunch time :) | 14:18 |
| faenil | enjoy people :) don't fight in the meanwhile :P | 14:18 |
| djszapi | yeah, KDAB (KDE company) could not still get gadgets for making kde pim working, but so many people got here who are just swearing. | 14:18 |
| sivang | OMGS beta2 has a WIFI HOTPOST APP FOR FREE | 14:19 |
| * sivang faints | 14:19 | |
| sivang | thanks faenil , come back soon :) | 14:19 |
| djszapi | and they could do it in professional, full-time job. | 14:19 |
| Venemo | ~seen wazd | 14:19 |
| sivang | djszapi: well, nothing we can do about it now :-/ | 14:19 |
| infobot | wazd <~wazd@188.123.241.176> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 1d 3h 38m 1s ago, saying: 'heya'. | 14:19 |
| MohammadAG | are there any good Qt mapping apps? besides Marble | 14:20 |
| djszapi | sivang: and that is why I am happy about people behaving like that, when there are so many people out there who could be benefit much more about it (Also Nokia could benefit more from them) | 14:20 |
| MohammadAG | I want something similar to Mappero | 14:20 |
| djszapi | *unhappy | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Mohammad: maep? | 14:20 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, how difficult would it be to port mappero? | 14:21 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: Mappero was the globe app on Fremantle? | 14:21 |
| sivang | djszapi: Not sure what to say. At least I'm happy with it very much and I will make my voice heard and I go around and show it to people and they are amazed feeling their iPhone is last year. | 14:21 |
| Venemo | sivang :D | 14:21 |
| sivang | djszapi: but being sincere, you need to kow I gave a rant talk about Fremantle and Sybmian, back in 2010 | 14:22 |
| djszapi | sivang: I will ask Nokia whether they can still give some devices to KDE developers, and organize a KDE Harmattan sprint, probably in Berlin. | 14:22 |
| sivang | djszapi: 45 minutes rant talk, which seems to have mostly resovled with Harmattan :) | 14:22 |
| sivang | djszapi: that''l be great. | 14:22 |
| djszapi | yeah, calligra, gluon, kalgebra are already sort of working. | 14:23 |
| sivang | my god the flasher downloads so slow... my shitty network | 14:23 |
| sivang | hmm wait a sec | 14:23 |
| sivang | I do not need to backup for flashing - this does ot flash the eMMC2 right? | 14:23 |
| sivang | RST38h: ^ | 14:23 |
| Venemo | djszapi, KPatience? | 14:24 |
| djszapi | sivang: you do need | 14:24 |
| MohammadAG | Venemo, it's C/Gtk | 14:24 |
| sivang | djszapi: how come? | 14:24 |
| djszapi | sivang: at least save out the contacts, and you can restore it with my wiki instructions. | 14:24 |
| Venemo | MohammadAG, ooooo... shame. | 14:24 |
| sivang | djszapi: okay cool | 14:24 |
| * sivang backs up | 14:24 | |
| djszapi | sivang: because you need to use the EMMC relevant to the new firmware. | 14:24 |
| sivang | djszapi: ah right! | 14:24 |
| sivang | djszapi: was this just like Fremantle? | 14:24 |
| djszapi | export the contacts at least into your pc, do you have something else to back up ? | 14:24 |
| sivang | djszapi: yes, I will do a backup and copy it over through USB | 14:25 |
| sivang | djszapi: ssh is dead, but USB must work | 14:25 |
| djszapi | sivang: actually, I am trying to ask for N9 for kde developers this time. | 14:25 |
| sivang | I ahve to eat something dear loved people of #harmattan | 14:25 |
| sivang | djszapi: that'll be even better, but Berlin would be nice again. | 14:25 |
| sivang | djszapi: vbe back after lunch dude , thanks | 14:25 |
| djszapi | Venemo: I see only kpat on maemo | 14:27 |
| Venemo | hm | 14:28 |
| Venemo | it's a shame that it's QWidget-based. | 14:28 |
| djszapi | seems to be very similar | 14:28 |
| djszapi | no, kpat is qml | 14:28 |
| *** gri is now known as zz_gri | 14:28 | |
| djszapi | and it worked on fremantle, so it could be ported to Harmattan. | 14:28 |
| djszapi | probably just repackaging. | 14:28 |
| Venemo | is 'kpat' == 'KPatience'? | 14:28 |
| djszapi | http://kde.garage.maemo.org/images/8fa73374848714c818ae024ce8e6d934.png | 14:28 |
| djszapi | well take a look at that, it seems to be very similar | 14:29 |
| Venemo | mhm | 14:29 |
| Venemo | nice | 14:29 |
| Venemo | but this can't be QML | 14:29 |
| Venemo | OS2008 doesn't support any Qt version which has QML. | 14:30 |
| djszapi | it has a fremantle version, too....it is just that screenshot | 14:30 |
| djszapi | at any rate, it seems to be more adapted to mobile friendlyness than KPatience. | 14:31 |
| djszapi | KPatience wastes too many spaces on the layout | 14:31 |
| Venemo | mhmm | 14:32 |
| Venemo | ok | 14:32 |
| djszapi | sivang: for the record and so as to understand the reason why you need to new the new firmware with the new SDK /all the time/: You have an old firmware containing a develsh from trusted source. We did it that way that time according to the OVI requirements, and then actually we realized it is /very/ huge security risk, so that we put it into unknown origin, and we extended with the proper OVI capabilities to get it work. If you could overwrite any syste | 14:37 |
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| sivang | djszapi: I think it got cut | 14:51 |
| sivang | djszapi: your line in IRC | 14:51 |
| djszapi | ...where ? | 14:51 |
| sivang | djszapi: "if you could overwrite any syste..." | 14:51 |
| djszapi | "...If you could overwrite any system package (truested) on your system with your own (unknown source), you can imagine then how much security would be in this platform for the average user. :)" | 14:52 |
| sivang | djszapi: why was having the old fw with develsh from trusted source a risk? | 14:54 |
| sivang | I understand fast wheh explained slow :) | 14:55 |
| RST38h | The average user does not know what package, source, or platform security is | 14:55 |
| RST38h | And never will. | 14:55 |
| SpeedEvil | Aegis is not user security. | 14:55 |
| RST38h | Yeah | 14:55 |
| sivang | a malicious software could try and replace system packates | 14:56 |
| RST38h | But djszapi would like us to believe it is for our benefit | 14:56 |
| sivang | that the user installs | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: yes - whereas an app that reads other apps files, and sends them over the internet is clearly risk free, as long as it can't replace system files. | 14:56 |
| *** sivang has quit IRC | 14:56 | |
| RST38h | Because if it is NOT for our benefit, then his life loses any meaning =) | 14:56 |
| *** sivang has joined #harmattan | 14:57 | |
| djszapi | sivang: SpeedEvil has no understanding about what aegis is or what not :) | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | I know exactly what it's for. | 14:57 |
| djszapi | sivang: the problem is that with trusted origin, they can begranted by too many capabilities, actually anything. | 14:57 |
| djszapi | sivang: oh yeah, please ask SpeedEvil, he knows aegis better ;) | 14:57 |
| SpeedEvil | "If you could overwrite any system package (truested) on your system with your own (unknown source), you can imagine then how much security would be in this platform for the average user." | 14:57 |
| *** seif has quit IRC | 14:58 | |
| *** djszapi has left #harmattan | 14:58 | |
| SpeedEvil | When this is a small fraction of the threats against the user, and aegis does not address many of them. | 14:58 |
| sivang | djszapi: I am really trying to understand now, so I have a package that has all the capabilties, named develsh | 14:58 |
| *** seif has joined #harmattan | 14:59 | |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: so if I have a trusted pacakge, develsh, on an old fw, the new one cannot be determined to be trusted since the fw needs new knowledge to know that? | 14:59 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: what other threats are there that are not adderssed? | 15:00 |
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| SpeedEvil | sivang: Aegis has things that it requires credentials for. If and only if these credentials are actually reviewed by the store team is this important. Otherwise the only limits on the actions an app from the store can do are the global limits on tokens no store app can have. | 15:01 |
| SpeedEvil | In addition, there are no tokens required for some things - opening files that are not in the protected datastore. | 15:02 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: so what is then the explenation for requireing a new fw to install new pkgs? Why is the new develsh pkg not trusted while it comes fro the trusted source? | 15:03 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: and why would not those creds be reviewed by the store team? | 15:03 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: I've no idea as to that, sorry. | 15:04 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: so what are you actually saying? | 15:04 |
| *** Smith has quit IRC | 15:04 | |
| * sivang is lost in the dark... | 15:04 | |
| SpeedEvil | This is more general comments about the fact that aegis is not a user security thing, it's a platform security thing. It can be a user security thing in limited areas, where the app uses the protected datastore. | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | And it does prevent overwiting of system packages, which is a legitimate security concern. | 15:06 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: well, to my poor understanding, if an app uses a protected datastore, then it should eb constraints, if not, then there's not much it can threaten the user no? | 15:06 |
| SpeedEvil | Well, apart from turn the camera and mic on, read all your files outside the datastore and send them to china. | 15:07 |
| RST38h | and that apparently covers all YOUR files | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Nokia's and your phone provider's files stay safe | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | You can have apps which store data inside the protected datastore. | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | And that data is safe. | 15:08 |
| RST38h | This includes locking, branding, and forced advertising | 15:08 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: right, so is app's fault | 15:08 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: I'm quite sure OVI will mandate before publish that app uses the safe store | 15:08 |
| SpeedEvil | sivang: Err - no. | 15:08 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: if you are using an app that does not use the safe store, I'd take it as my fault. | 15:09 |
| sivang | s/you/I/ | 15:09 |
| infobot | sivang meant: SpeedEvil: if I are using an app that does not use the safe store, I'd take it as my fault. | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | Many, many apps in the store are using ordinary files. | 15:09 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: in the N9 versions? | 15:09 |
| sivang | *their | 15:09 |
| SpeedEvil | And the stuff on mydocs can never be protected | 15:09 |
| RST38h | Not "many", rather something between "most" and "all" | 15:09 |
| sivang | interesting | 15:09 |
| * sivang thinks to write OVI to make this as an QA requirement | 15:10 | |
| SpeedEvil | But they can't easily. | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Anyway, the whole aegis thing is a lawyer-inspired pestilence | 15:10 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: why not ? | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | As aegis does not require a credential for file access. | 15:10 |
| SpeedEvil | So it's not automatically picked up as a credential, and would require a source code review. | 15:10 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: so they cannot know when an app access the safe store? | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Will be broken as soon as someone gets to spend a bit of quality time with the final firmware | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | When it accesses the 'normal' filesystem. | 15:11 |
| sivang | I see. | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | The safe store can have per-app keys, ... | 15:11 |
| sivang | so what is the real purpose for Aegis according to what you think? | 15:11 |
| SpeedEvil | Preventing users overwriting platform software. | 15:12 |
| sivang | like iPhone and Adnroid do? | 15:12 |
| SpeedEvil | I don't know enough about those patforms to meaningfully comment. | 15:13 |
| sivang | okay, for me it sounds legite enough anyways. | 15:13 |
| sivang | I'm sure there's a way to go through the fopen calls and see they are not in the safe store | 15:13 |
| sivang | and reject the app on QA. | 15:13 |
| sivang | this can be done even with ar or something | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | That's the whole point of aegis. | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | Some system calls are trapped and only allowed if you've got the credential. | 15:14 |
| sivang | I have a hunch they might add it, it is not there for nothing | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | However - fopen, and many, many other calls aren't. | 15:14 |
| sivang | SpeedEvil: so they just add another syscall trap for file opens | 15:14 |
| SpeedEvil | That would be a rather large change, and either every app would need it, or you'd need to introduce another list of files and subdirectories each app could access without it. | 15:15 |
| sivang | you could symlink and sink storage all into the safe store | 15:16 |
| sivang | and the number of apps fpr the evice is still not that large. | 15:16 |
| sivang | anyway | 15:16 |
| sivang | backup time. | 15:16 |
| SpeedEvil | Sure - aegis could be made into a user security tool. It's just not one at the moment in many senses. | 15:18 |
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| sivang | SpeedEvil: that's okay, everything in its time. | 15:24 |
| sivang | anyway , back to backup :) | 15:24 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: I think I saw some example with Qt /QML using google maps | 15:34 |
| sivang | MohammadAG: need to dig this out. | 15:35 |
| M4rtinK | MohammadAG: BTW, what about modRana ? :) it (currently) uses Python + GTK, so its probably not of much of use for your purposes at the moment though :) | 15:43 |
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| tarantism | I've been writing an app that uses a custom pulseaudio module - will it be possible to get this past aegis? | 15:50 |
| SpeedEvil | I think javispedro was commenting about pulseaudio modules - though I'm unsure what his conclusion was. | 15:51 |
| tarantism | I saw some of that wrt fm radio | 15:51 |
| SpeedEvil | What're you trying to do? | 15:52 |
| tarantism | low latency music app | 15:52 |
| SpeedEvil | (I have no knowledge on this, just wondering) | 15:52 |
| SpeedEvil | music creation you mean? | 15:52 |
| tarantism | yes | 15:52 |
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| tarantism | I spent many months trying to get latency low without a custom module but found it wasn't possible | 15:53 |
| tarantism | on N900 at lease | 15:53 |
| tarantism | *least | 15:53 |
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| MohammadAG | congrats thp_ :D | 16:12 |
| faenil | yeah definitely :D | 16:12 |
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| javispedro | hello gentlemen | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | moo | 16:51 |
| SpeedEvil | javispedro: Hey | 16:54 |
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| Venemo | hey javispedro | 16:57 |
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| tarantism | javispedro: Do you know if it's possible to deploy a pulseaudio module to harmattan? | 17:14 |
| javispedro | currently, yes | 17:14 |
| javispedro | but as it is surely a security problem, dunno what will happen on the future. | 17:14 |
| javispedro | hm | 17:14 |
| javispedro | may I ask what do you want to do either way? | 17:15 |
| tarantism | I'm writing a music app and it's the only way I can see to get low latency. | 17:15 |
| javispedro | that's surprising | 17:16 |
| tarantism | why so? | 17:16 |
| javispedro | do you know you can store samples on the server? | 17:16 |
| tarantism | I did know that but I can't interrupt/modify the playback | 17:16 |
| javispedro | hm, good point | 17:17 |
| tarantism | If you want to synthesise samples on the fly, it really has to be RT | 17:17 |
| tarantism | or high latency | 17:17 |
| javispedro | What I find surprising is that you were able to decrease latency by a custom module | 17:18 |
| piggz | is there somewhere a list of all the harmattan platform toolbar icon names? | 17:19 |
| tarantism | Yes, nice and quick. It makes your phone playable! | 17:19 |
| tarantism | You can ask for short time frames from a client and get low latency | 17:19 |
| tarantism | but because your process might be interrupted for 100s ms at a time, you get glitches | 17:20 |
| tarantism | in a module, you have RT priority so can keep up with eg 10ms frames | 17:20 |
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| javispedro | so it's not PA perse but scheduling =) | 17:24 |
| tarantism | yep | 17:24 |
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| Jaffa | Anyone know what the 'content' directory is for under MyDocs/{Music,Movies} etc? | 17:39 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: here? | 17:56 |
| *** lardman has joined #harmattan | 17:56 | |
| DocScrutinizer | ? | 17:56 |
| sivang | who has topic access to the channel ? | 17:56 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sivang | 17:56 | |
| sivang | oh | 17:56 |
| sivang | :) | 17:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | NB char limit already reached | 17:57 |
| lardman | Anyone familiar with QML ListView delegates? The examples have e.g. a Column object containing Text objects all within an Item element; I need to be able to switch between a Column and a Row depending on the device orientation | 17:58 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o DocScrutinizer | 17:58 | |
| *** DocScrutinizer changes topic to " A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | No discussion that requires NDA please!| Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/" | 17:58 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o DocScrutinizer | 17:58 | |
| lardman | presumably I should anchor the elements and alter the anchors in the state change stuff, but doing this, my "column" ends up with each item drawn over the top of each other, while my "row" works fine | 17:59 |
| lardman | perhaps because I'm not anchoring side to side? | 17:59 |
| lardman | any ideas? | 17:59 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: okay let me see if I can do it right, /me edits an topic withing text limit that includes a link to latest upgrade news :) | 18:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: whatever you edit, please do /topic <c&p of recent topic text> | <your new text> | 18:01 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: ofcourse, what am I , a kid? (I used to maintain some Ubuntu channels back then ) :-p | 18:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | your +o will expire in ~15min | 18:03 |
| lardman | ah, fwiw anchoring to the bottom of "parent" is what was screwing things up, I thought parent would be the Item wrapper within the delegate, but apparently not | 18:03 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: okay, /me runs | 18:04 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o sivang | 18:08 | |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: see /ms chanserv help topic | 18:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | and /msg chanserv access #harmattan list | 18:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | [Notice] -ChanServ- 8 sivang +t [modified 2 minutes, 8 seconds ago] | 18:10 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: thanks, I'm doing a quick post for this, might run overtime, can I ask you to op me again for just 2 minutes so I can add it to channel? | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry? | 18:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | please rephrase | 18:13 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I might run over the time allotment | 18:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | no more timing, you got permanent permission to change topic via /msg chanserv topic #harmattan <new topic> | 18:15 |
| *** piggz has quit IRC | 18:15 | |
| DocScrutinizer | see " /msg chanserv help topic" and "/msg chanserv help flags" | 18:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | and " /msg chanserv help topicappend" | 18:18 |
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| DocScrutinizer | sivang: /msg chanserv access #harmattan list -> [Notice] -ChanServ- 8 sivang +t [modified 2 minutes, 8 seconds ago] | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | [Notice] -ChanServ- +t - Enables use of the topic and topicappend commands. | 18:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: ping me if there are any questions or problems | 18:23 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: will do, gazillion thanks | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 18:23 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks for help on maintenance | 18:23 |
| Venemo | anyone knows how to pop up the "Connect to Internet" dialog from my app? | 18:24 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: opkay I need topic rights now | 18:35 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: topic is read | 18:35 |
| sivang | ready | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | you *got* topic rights | 18:35 |
| sivang | 18:35 -!- #harmattan You're not a channel operator | 18:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | see /msg chanserv help topic | 18:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | see /msg chanserv help topicapend | 18:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-10-01 17:18:59] [Notice] -ChanServ- Examples: | 18:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-10-01 17:18:59] [Notice] -ChanServ- /msg ChanServ TOPICAPPEND #foo bar | 18:38 |
| sivang | 18:39 <sivang> TOPICAPPEND #harmattan UPGRADES: http://t.co/RptS1MaM | 18:39 |
| sivang | 18:39 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You are not authorized to perform this operation. | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | o.O | 18:39 |
| DocScrutinizer | meh | 18:39 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o sivang | 18:40 | |
| sivang | :) | 18:40 |
| sivang | hmm /me retires | 18:40 |
| sivang | 18:41 <sivang> TOPICAPPEND #harmattan UPGRADES: http://t.co/RptS1MaM | 18:41 |
| sivang | 18:41 -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.)- You are not authorized to perform this operation. | 18:41 |
| sivang | again | 18:41 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: doc? | 18:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | use /topic | 18:41 |
| sivang | lol | 18:41 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: can I topicappened using it? | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno what fart spoiled chanserv's operations | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | afaik not | 18:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | there's no /topicappend command | 18:42 |
| sivang | lol | 18:43 |
| sivang | ok | 18:43 |
| * sivang c&p's | 18:43 | |
| *** sivang changes topic to "A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | No NDA discussions please! | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://t.co/RptS1MaM" | 18:45 | |
| Venemo | sivang, I get "error: The article you specified could not be found." | 18:45 |
| faenil | the article you specifies could not be found | 18:45 |
| faenil | dammit xD | 18:46 |
| sivang | stupid twitter | 18:46 |
| Venemo | xD | 18:46 |
| sivang | yes, it was twitter shortening serivce | 18:46 |
| sivang | gonna use a proper now | 18:46 |
| sivang | http://bit.ly/rffn73 | 18:47 |
| sivang | does this work? | 18:47 |
| *** sivang changes topic to "A cozy little place for pure harmattan device and development discussions | No NDA discussions please! | Developers check this: http://library.developer.nokia.com/ | http://wiki.meego.com/N950_landing_page | logs: http://mg.pov.lt/harmattan-irclog/ | UPGRADES: http://bit.ly/rffn73" | 18:47 | |
| faenil | yes | 18:47 |
| sivang | thank you people | 18:48 |
| sivang | and thanks DocScrutinizer | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | np | 18:48 |
| sivang | :) | 18:48 |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: -o sivang | 18:48 | |
| sivang | now some dinner | 18:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | I'd like to hear about new findings why chanserv refuses to do topic(add) for you - if you ever manage to play a bit more with it | 18:49 |
| *** hardaker has quit IRC | 18:51 | |
| DocScrutinizer | obviously you are registered with nameserv, and you got +t on access-list | 18:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~lart ChanServ | 18:52 |
| * infobot --purges ChanServ | 18:52 | |
| DocScrutinizer | HAH no, you're not registered, so it can't work | 18:53 |
| DocScrutinizer | [Whois] sivang ist ~sivan@bzq-84-109-219-222.red.bezeqint.net (sivan) | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | *NOT* sivan@unaffiliated/sivang | 18:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | sivang: please identify to nameserv, then also chanserv topic(apend) will work for you | 18:55 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, s/nameserv/NickServ | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | err yes | 18:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | thanks | 18:56 |
| Venemo | yw, as always :) | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | man, airports are boring at times | 19:02 |
| * Stskeeps chills in helsinki one | 19:04 | |
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| DocScrutinizer | messing with airport WLAN sometimes is quite "entertaining" | 19:14 |
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| Stskeeps | its free here | 19:16 |
| DocScrutinizer | yeah, often it's free, but configured in quite funny ways | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | :nod: | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | must be many linux geeks here, ssh port isnt blocked | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 19:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | see if the html config page of router is open ;-) | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | or telnet | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | naah, i have to come back here i hope :P | 19:18 |
| DocScrutinizer | gnhnhn | 19:19 |
| DocScrutinizer | also a lil scan of the subnet reveals a lot of worthy targets for a bit of fun ;-) | 19:20 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: I would love to be in the Helsinki airport, or Helsinki for that matter. | 19:20 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: does it rain? | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: nah, cloudless | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | no rain in Europe | 19:21 |
| sivang | seriously? | 19:21 |
| DocScrutinizer | well, maybe in the South of Spain | 19:21 |
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| sivang | DocScrutinizer: did not realize I was not identifed odd | 19:21 |
| sivang | am I identified now? | 19:21 |
| Venemo | [18:22] [Whois] sivang is logged in as sivang. | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 19:22 |
| Venemo | yes | 19:22 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: and surely you mean, s/nameserver/chansev/ ? | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | nickserv | 19:22 |
| Venemo | lol https://twitter.com/#!/fakeselop/status/120171572471402496 | 19:22 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: that's the first thing I noticed in HEL airpot - free wifi just like in Israel and in no other place I've been too so far. | 19:22 |
| DocScrutinizer | Taipei also has free WLAN, but basically unusable | 19:23 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: right, FRA and Tegel and Munich it all costs top bucks. | 19:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | :nod: | 19:24 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: visited for harmattan I take it? | 19:24 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: :) | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | sivang: no, meego CE | 19:24 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: ah nice | 19:24 |
| sivang | that is, even better :) | 19:25 |
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| Stskeeps | sivang: is luxury to be able to wrk on open project. | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | as long as it lasts | 19:26 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: I agree. | 19:26 |
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| sivang | Stskeeps: I think another open project comes, if this one is not the one. | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | i have doubts with nokia | 19:27 |
| Venemo | frals, ping | 19:30 |
| sivang | Stskeeps: I'm optimistic and hoping for the best, there is a lot of mentions around the web of the next billion things and there are hints it is linux based. | 19:30 |
| sivang | is this true here, http://wiki.meego.com/Migrating_from_N900_to_N950#Migrating_from_beta_1_to_beta_2 that simple restore of the backup won't just work? | 19:32 |
| sivang | perhaps this is fixed already? | 19:32 |
| Venemo | sivang, nope, it will not work | 19:33 |
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| sivang | Venemo: why is that? | 19:33 |
| Venemo | sivang, claimed to be a bug in the previous software's backup mechanism | 19:33 |
| sivang | I see. | 19:33 |
| sivang | so old fw's backup program is the problem then? | 19:33 |
| sivang | Venemo: ah okay | 19:38 |
| sivang | Venemo: sorry did not see the upper line | 19:38 |
| sivang | Venemo: why is pushing contacts to N900 helos? | 19:40 |
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| sivang | Venemo: why pushing contacts to n900 helos? | 19:41 |
| Venemo_ | sivang, because you can't restore contacts from backups made with previous sw | 19:41 |
| Venemo_ | sorry, my laptop froze | 19:41 |
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| sivang | Venemo: but syncing to a symbian device is also okay? | 19:43 |
| sivang | Venemo: I'd rather sync my shit to E7 | 19:43 |
| Venemo | sivang, methinks yes | 19:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | use export/import rather than sync | 19:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | sync may not work the way you expected it to do | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | syncing state of backup to the empty device ;-P | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly what you want I guess | 19:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | so a) use export/import, and b) make a backup of your N900/<other-device> prior to "syncing" back (aka re-importing) | 19:49 |
| Venemo | frals, ping | 19:50 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw sync to OVI/Nokia worked here, with beta1, at least for contacts (seems calendar got not synced) | 19:50 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: I need the windows suite for that yes? | 19:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | I didn't | 19:54 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: oh so just sync OTA to ovi? | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | yep | 19:55 |
| sivang | niec! | 19:55 |
| sivang | nice | 19:55 |
| sivang | I don;'t think this has ever worked for us in N900 or was there supoprt for that at all... | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | it even has a sophisticated schedule for doing that automatically | 19:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | no support for that on N900 ever | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | OVI detects N950 as DALI-device | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | whatever that means | 19:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | sync takes ages, but works in background | 19:57 |
| sivang | nice | 19:58 |
| sivang | *very* nice | 19:58 |
| * sivang pets his N950 | 19:58 | |
| DocScrutinizer | settings -> sync&backup->sync | 19:58 |
| sivang | DocScrutinizer: thx | 19:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 19:59 |
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| lardman | Hmm, QML ListView, should my highlight be moving with my taps on the screen, or does that need to be implemented by me? | 20:35 |
| faenil | there is some option iirc | 20:36 |
| sivang | anybody has an idea how to make a qml element that could be called from every item no matter how deep in a qml hirarchy and show a web page? | 20:39 |
| sivang | I guess I am thinking of a webkit component inside qml, which I can re-use as a singelton for different web pages per UX compoenent. | 20:39 |
| sivang | any idea someone? | 20:39 |
| special | sivang: if you're using C++, you can add it as a context property on the root context | 20:39 |
| special | qmlRegisterUncreatableType<WebkitHandler>("WebkitHandler", ...); view->rootContext()->setContextProperty("webkit", new WebkitHandler); | 20:40 |
| special | see http://doc.qt.nokia.com/4.7-snapshot/qtbinding.html | 20:41 |
| sivang | special: right so there is no way to do it in QML itself, perhaps there's no QML webkit component for harmattan at all? :) | 20:41 |
| special | I have no idea about qml webkit components | 20:42 |
| sivang | special: I'm tomboying this dude, thanks, I got so far to understan I need to play with rootContext() but was not sure how. | 20:42 |
| berndhs | sivang: there's WebView, you can put that anywhere you want | 20:42 |
| sivang | berndhs: ah okay | 20:42 |
| sivang | berndhs: will I need to add ti anywhere I want to use it, and also if I do, will it reuse the same webki instance? | 20:43 |
| berndhs | you have to do "import QtWebKit 1.0", then you get the element defined | 20:44 |
| sivang | berndhs: nice and there's a way to just call it from a UX component without including it as a property? | 20:44 |
| berndhs | its an element like the rest of them | 20:45 |
| sivang | berndhs: I would guess this is the same as the c++ line special suggested? | 20:45 |
| berndhs | like Rectangle or ListView for one of those | 20:45 |
| berndhs | no it has nothing to do with the c++ stuff | 20:45 |
| sivang | berndhs: how would the C++ thing be different? | 20:45 |
| berndhs | the properties defined from c++ allow you to interface with c++ objects | 20:46 |
| berndhs | ListView isn't one of them | 20:46 |
| berndhs | sorry WebView | 20:46 |
| berndhs | if you have multiple WebViews in the qml, they have different content of course | 20:48 |
| sivang | berndhs: right, so I look for a way to have one webview and be able to call it and show it from any place in the qml code | 20:49 |
| sivang | berndhs: as I want to allow existing code to be added support to call this webview to display as web study, for instance. | 20:49 |
| sivang | berndhs: perhaps as giving feedback about the specific UX component | 20:49 |
| berndhs | if you can find the element, you can manipulate it from other elements | 20:49 |
| berndhs | change the properties basically | 20:50 |
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| berndhs | QML doesn't have nesting of names, everything is global | 20:50 |
| sivang | berndhs: ah right, neat. | 20:50 |
| * sivang recalls that from the 2010 training day in Munich | 20:50 | |
| berndhs | so you can call up and down and sideways just with the basic id, and wreck things any way you want :) | 20:51 |
| sivang | perfect. | 20:51 |
| sivang | berndhs: now what if I want to enable this calling of the webview from code that never was written that way, if you catch my drift ( | 20:52 |
| berndhs | I think the element has to be in teh same qml file though | 20:52 |
| berndhs | otherwise you can export/import it through c++ | 20:52 |
| berndhs | which is even more flexible and even more wrong :) | 20:52 |
| sivang | berndhs: perfect so the C++ way holds :) | 20:52 |
| berndhs | well sort of | 20:53 |
| sivang | berndhs: this is for this, btw - http://developer.qt.nokia.com/groups/qt_contributors_summit/wiki/CrowdQuick | 20:53 |
| berndhs | you can find objects by name, or find objects that have property values | 20:53 |
| sivang | berndhs: because I see it now, I need to add the ability to trigger this webview opening for QML / qt code that did not have this. | 20:53 |
| sivang | berndhs: so I would need to add this webview and a way to open it to Item right? | 20:54 |
| sivang | berndhs: (which is the basis for the component hirarchy) | 20:54 |
| sivang | berndhs: such that some QML code, running with my qmlviewer would be able to trigger this webview as required | 20:54 |
| berndhs | you can enclose the WebView in something that has functions you can call, or add properties to the WebVIew | 20:54 |
| berndhs | not with qmlviewer no, it doesn't let you add c++ afaik | 20:55 |
| sivang | berndhs: I was thinking of making my own qmlviewer based on the one that Qt Creator boiler plates. | 20:55 |
| sivang | berndhs: only instead of adding debugging support and form factor detection I add this feedback UX | 20:56 |
| * sivang goes to copy the channel log | 20:56 | |
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| berndhs | sure you could make your own viewer with your own additions | 20:57 |
| mtd | anyone know where to get the beta1 flasher? | 20:57 |
| sivang | berndhs: that is going to be the first POC, after that I would need to see how to do it for an arbitrary qt quick app, e.g. not all of them use qmlviewer right, some just have their own custom code for showing their QML UI ? | 20:58 |
| sivang | berndhs: and thank you so much for all of this help. | 20:58 |
| berndhs | I think most applicatiosn have their own viewer, just a QDeclarativeView instead of a QMainWindow | 20:59 |
| sivang | berndhs: right, so to make this support for all QML, I would need to add support to QDecelarive view. That's 2nd step. | 21:00 |
| sivang | berndhs: this conversation with you really helped me straighten my thoughts about this. | 21:01 |
| sivang | berndhs: adding support here means "sending a patch" to QDeclerativeView :) | 21:01 |
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| sivang | hey artemma | 21:02 |
| sivang | berndhs: thanks again, could I ask you more question downhill my development? :) | 21:03 |
| berndhs | i'm going to meego-arm to get some networking help :) | 21:03 |
| faenil | I haven't understood your problem completely, sivang :D | 21:03 |
| sivang | faenil: it is not a problem, is a feature :) | 21:04 |
| sivang | faenil: can you see the qt summit link above? | 21:04 |
| artemma | hi sivang | 21:04 |
| faenil | yes | 21:04 |
| sivang | faenil: An ambitious dream I have to get integrated feedback loop into QtQuick | 21:04 |
| sivang | :) | 21:04 |
| sivang | faenil: the ideal thing is that for a developer, to no have to worry about this, just import something to get support for the feedback and study pages 9served off the web) into his UX | 21:05 |
| faenil | mm | 21:05 |
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| sivang | faenil: so perhaps in the future (past POC) I am looking at adding support to QDecView to show this and fetch the id of the lement for a study | 21:06 |
| sivang | anyway I have to run to the shower | 21:06 |
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| sivang | faenil: ideas and suggestion welcome, btw | 21:06 |
| sivang | berndhs: same to you | 21:06 |
| faenil | sure just trying to understand :) | 21:06 |
| faenil | so you basically users can see your QML UI on the web? | 21:07 |
| faenil | oh no, wait... | 21:07 |
| faenil | you see the ui on crowd client | 21:08 |
| sivang | faenil: took sometime for me to understand how I want to do this, Luckily nokia was to the rescue and I was taken to QtCS in berlin to spec and discuss this with some ver nice NOkias interested in it. | 21:08 |
| sivang | faenil: yep! | 21:08 |
| sivang | :) | 21:08 |
| faenil | and can give feedback about it | 21:08 |
| sivang | faenil: but I have to go, will you be here in 2 hours? | 21:08 |
| sivang | faenil: yes! | 21:08 |
| faenil | don't know | 21:08 |
| faenil | we'll meet again anyway, don't worry :) | 21:08 |
| sivang | faenil: read Charly's comments , I need to move this to devnet | 21:08 |
| sivang | faenil: I count on this :) | 21:09 |
| faenil | ok ;) I'm not qt expert though, just computer science university student learning and helping as much as he can :D | 21:09 |
| sivang | faenil: that could be a nice spot to help, I'm also not an Qt expert but learning tons every day now, the docs are great, the SDK is sweet. | 21:09 |
| faenil | ;) | 21:10 |
| faenil | like the idea though :D | 21:10 |
| sivang | faenil: I need to see if I can setup a wiki / development site on devnet | 21:11 |
| sivang | faenil: if not that on nokia developer | 21:11 |
| faenil | :) | 21:11 |
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| faenil | probably stupid question, what's wrong with uploading and download qml directly? | 21:12 |
| faenil | space? | 21:12 |
| sivang | faenil: how do you mean? | 21:13 |
| sivang | faenil: for every app? | 21:13 |
| sivang | faenil: not stupid, actually interesting question. Elaborate please :) | 21:14 |
| faenil | if I understood correctly, this is a way for devs to get feedback about their UI.. | 21:14 |
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| faenil | they subscribe your service, and can upload UIs there, and they can get reviewed by other people via crowdclient | 21:15 |
| faenil | right? | 21:15 |
| sivang | right | 21:15 |
| faenil | okay, so, what's wrong with uploading qml ui files directly to server, and download those qml via crowdclient? | 21:16 |
| sivang | faenil: that is the idea, yes | 21:16 |
| faenil | (probably answered my question myself) | 21:16 |
| faenil | but you're jsonizing it | 21:17 |
| sivang | faenil: hmm right let me think about it | 21:17 |
| sivang | faenil: I forgot the use case for the json | 21:17 |
| sivang | hmm | 21:17 |
| sivang | faenil: oh, the idea is to use a REST service | 21:18 |
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| sivang | faenil: to have specific UX elements downloadable | 21:18 |
| sivang | faenil: not just whole files | 21:18 |
| faenil | oh okay, that's it then :) | 21:18 |
| sivang | faenil: from a sort of key value store, I recall json helped me see how I can search through and pinpint specific elements | 21:18 |
| faenil | I see...very nice... | 21:19 |
| faenil | hope it goes on :) | 21:19 |
| sivang | faenil: but probably there should be a distinction, e.g. if you want full files, for first UX upgrade you roll them all | 21:19 |
| sivang | faenil: when you feedback, you go to REST / specific keys | 21:19 |
| sivang | faenil: I like this kind of questions - makes you think | 21:19 |
| faenil | maybe who knows :) | 21:19 |
| faenil | :) | 21:19 |
| sivang | faenil: but also, someone might not just agree to a whole UX upgrade, so he wants just specific bits :) | 21:20 |
| sivang | faenil: I need a forum for this, nokia deveoper seems to rpovide it but this is a Qt feature | 21:20 |
| * sivang will lookk | 21:20 | |
| sivang | faenil: anyway, have to go for now | 21:20 |
| faenil | sure, the json way is more flexible... | 21:20 |
| faenil | sure | 21:20 |
| sivang | faenil: thanks for the uestion | 21:20 |
| faenil | yw ;) | 21:21 |
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| BrettQ | ugh...so I was able to use Optware packages until I rebooted my N950 | 21:40 |
| BrettQ | now I just get "Operation not permitted" | 21:40 |
| BrettQ | Aegis needs to die in a fire | 21:40 |
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| faenil | are you sure it's aegis' fault? | 21:48 |
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| mtd | argh, OSX flasher requires 64-bit mac | 22:26 |
| mtd | anyone have the beta1/old flasher (just the usr/bin/flasher file) for linux around? | 22:32 |
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| BrettQ | faenil: not 100% sure, but not sure what else could cause it to stop working all of the sudden | 22:55 |
| faenil | BrettQ: so, until you're sure or you have evidence, don't talk about aegis, that is the wrong approach ;) which too many people got here :) | 22:58 |
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| faenil | guys how can I draw text on cubes via opengl es 2.0? Without using something like a big texture with chars and different text coords, or such... | 23:34 |
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| deimos | faenil: I remember there was something with glut, something like glutStrokeText | 23:47 |
| deimos | but maybe glut is a problem ? :) | 23:48 |
| faenil | ehehhe :D | 23:52 |
| Ans5i | wow, http://glutes.sourceforge.net/ | 23:52 |
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