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| lardman | ah, Tellico looks like a possibility | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| lardman | fwiw | 00:07 |
| Khertan_webchat | Jaffa: is there a new n950 fw ? | 00:10 |
| macmaN | i would hope so | 00:10 |
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| lardman | official release version? | 00:13 |
| Khertan_webchat | i ask because i see a tweet of jaffa about new fw | 00:17 |
| Khertan_webchat | at least nothing new on nokia website : http://www.developer.nokia.com/search/search.xhtml?view=ebs&s=ft&tl=0&ob=best&me=false&l=20&expandDoc=false&k=n950&oldK=n950 | 00:19 |
| Khertan_webchat | good night all | 00:20 |
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| * lardman checks twitter | 00:29 | |
| lardman | hmm, I see | 00:30 |
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| * lardman has worked out how to use ZXing from C++, testing that as the Photoanalyser barcode detector backend will give him something to do tomorrow | 00:31 | |
| lardman | night all | 00:31 |
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| DocScrutinizer | nokia develper newsletter: >>Qt on the Nokia N9: Over a dozen demo apps<< OVER A DOZEN?? incredible! ;-P | 02:11 |
| berndhs | yeah | 02:11 |
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| berndhs | i only have 5 apps on n950 so far | 02:12 |
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| Scifig | I am unable to download the Navigation Voice in the "Drive" application. The error is "Sorry, the list of new navigation voices can't be reached. Please try again later." Any fix or workaround for this? | 02:44 |
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| iekku | morning | 06:21 |
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| lardman | morning | 07:23 |
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| lardman | ah, the wonders of making Debian packages | 07:39 |
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| lardman | anyone awake here? Any thoughts on library versioning and how to name a library such as zxing, which is a port from Java and which I don't maintain? | 07:41 |
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| * lardman wonders how many man-lives are wasted trying to work out Debian packaging | 08:41 | |
| nibbler | lardman: hopefully less than spent in rpm-hell, trying to solve dependencies. But i'm not too optimistic on that. | 08:45 |
| lardman | :) | 08:45 |
| lardman | By the time I package something up I feel I have a reasonable understanding, but I need to do that so infrequently that my understanding erodes away in the meantime | 08:46 |
| nibbler | feels weird though to finally have the possibility to apt-get update ; apt-get upgrade on a phone and at the same time contemplate dropping ubuntu for fedora on the workstation :-) | 08:46 |
| nibbler | lardman: learning to document things for yourself - the hard way. i know that problem very well :-/ | 08:47 |
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| lardman | ah, finally it's working | 08:49 |
| lardman | only wasted and hour and a half on that | 08:50 |
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| * lardman repeats to himself all the mistakes he made with his Debianisation in an attempt to learn from them | 09:16 | |
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| Jaffa | khertan_: It's beta 2. I've been slow. | 09:28 |
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| macmaN | Jaffa: what would happen if you had been normal speed | 09:34 |
| macmaN | newer fw would already be available? | 09:35 |
| lardman | hmm, I wonder why Imagemagick is available in the Nokia repo, but lacks any header files | 09:40 |
| lardman | http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/i/imagemagick/ | 09:40 |
| * lardman wonders if he should skip using magick and just read the data himself | 09:41 | |
| ieatlint | has anyone managed to get the wifi hotspot app to work? | 09:42 |
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| ieatlint | i get "kernel: [18517.504394] wl1271: ERROR Adhoc not supported on this device." in the syslog | 09:42 |
| lardman | I didn't realise there was one | 09:43 |
| * lardman digs out phone | 09:43 | |
| ieatlint | in beta2, there's an app preloaded labeled "Wi-Fi Hotspot" | 09:43 |
| lardman | ah yes, I see it now | 09:44 |
| macmaN | 09:45 quimgil>[09:44:11] 14 RT @santtuahonen: New Qt SDK available for N9 developers under http://t.co/PfAnkIDo <developer.nokia.com/info/sw.nokia.…> This puts the SDK (and N950) on par with N9 sales release. #Qt #N9 #N950 | 09:45 |
| macmaN | hmmm. | 09:45 |
| lardman | I wonder if that will auto update | 09:46 |
| ieatlint | i think he means the sdk, not the fw on the n950 | 09:47 |
| macmaN | yeah i know. just that qtc 1.1.3 was just recently released. | 09:47 |
| lardman | yeah I meant the SDK too, whether the update tool will pull that stuff in | 09:48 |
| macmaN | ok yeah SDKMaintenanceTool finds a whole bunch of new stuffs | 09:50 |
| * lardman marvels at the naming convention used in the imagemagick packaging | 09:50 | |
| ieatlint | ah, i see -- "MeeGo 1.2 Harmattan API" "Installed Version 1.2011-22-6" "New Version 10.2011-34-1" | 09:50 |
| lardman | macmaN: drat, wish I'd not updated it yesterday now | 09:50 |
| lardman | day before even | 09:50 |
| lardman | doh! | 09:50 |
| macmaN | wow, ok yes, indeed, SDK now includes 34-2 fw emulators :> didnt even notice that before | 09:51 |
| macmaN | ugh its gonna be ugly raping this hotel wifi | 09:51 |
| lardman | libmagic9-dev goes with libmagic10, interesting | 09:51 |
| macmaN | downloading a gig of sdk | 09:51 |
| ieatlint | so can anyone else confirm that the wifi hotspot app has [not] worked for them? | 09:51 |
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| macmaN | i read on fmo about claims that it borks networking | 09:55 |
| macmaN | so i havent tried it | 09:55 |
| macmaN | at the same time, i cant get BT DUN to work anymore on beta2 either | 09:55 |
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| macmaN | BT PAN doesnt seem to be enabled at all | 09:55 |
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| ieatlint | shame | 09:57 |
| ieatlint | hopefully fixed by nokia in next fw release | 09:58 |
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| xarcass | macmaN: what do you mean "34-2 fw emulators"? QEMU? | 10:00 |
| macmaN | i dont remember the exact contents of the update window, you dont have access to the maintenance tool right now? | 10:02 |
| macmaN | i thought it did say harmattan emulator 34-2 | 10:02 |
| xarcass | it's simple: if it's QEMU again, i'm not interested, but if I could use QtSimulator for N9 development I would be very happy | 10:07 |
| lardman | one nappy change a cup of coffee and a cup of tea later and imagemagick is still compiling... | 10:07 |
| lardman | ah, running tests, no wonder it's taking an age | 10:08 |
| * ajalkane cries tears of happiness. Babies give life a meaning while waiting compiles to finish. | 10:09 | |
| lardman | not so sure changing nappies is preferable to watching compilation, or indeed grass grow/paint dry etc., though it does share some pungent features with the last of those | 10:10 |
| ajalkane | On the other hand they're quite a nuisance when trying to code | 10:10 |
| lardman | yeah | 10:11 |
| lardman | I got up stupidly early for some reason, so have had a few hours before wife + baby woke up | 10:11 |
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| ajalkane | Nowadays I get early up to code, or wake up for few hours in middle of night to get anythin done :) | 10:12 |
| ajalkane | I smell shit. Ah, just a baby sleeping and producing waste on my lap. Or is it #tizen | 10:13 |
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| lardman | what's this tizen business? | 10:13 |
| * lardman does a Google | 10:13 | |
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| lardman | oh dear, more webtastic stuff | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | OBS, RPM, :P | 10:14 |
| ajalkane | Imagine 5 hour old baby feces. That's tizen. | 10:14 |
| lardman | lol | 10:15 |
| hiemanshu | Tizen means 'Two Asses' in Lebanese | 10:15 |
| hiemanshu | so its fine ajalkane | 10:15 |
| lardman | well at least Samsung are joining, as they make some nice hw | 10:15 |
| lardman | hiemanshu: ah yes, I remember Mohammad mentioning that yesterday | 10:15 |
| ajalkane | Two asses, intel and samsung? They chose weird symbolism | 10:15 |
| hiemanshu | yeah | 10:16 |
| ieatlint | i'm pretty meh about it, but i somehow think samsung will actually get a device out the door | 10:23 |
| ieatlint | which puts it ahead of meego | 10:23 |
| ajalkane | they might. But will it attract users and devs is a different thing. | 10:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | i don't think anyone in charge | 10:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | has learned a fucking thing. | 10:24 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's simply: try #3 | 10:24 |
| ieatlint | if they think they're going to kill android or the ipad, the no, they'll die | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: so, you're interested in a nice linux qt stack? | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:24 |
| ieatlint | if they want to be the bada of the tablet world, then they've got a real chance | 10:25 |
| TSCHAKeee | stskeeps: I'm burned out. | 10:25 |
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| Stskeeps | TSCHAKeee: aren't we all | 10:25 |
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| ieatlint | well, i understand what intel is doing anyway | 10:26 |
| ieatlint | samsung, i don't get | 10:26 |
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| ieatlint | but maybe motorola was a factor | 10:26 |
| TSCHAKeee | it's basically for me, the message is very clear, you have three choices Go To Android, Go to iOS, or kiss any hope of your creations getting to anyone goodbye. with a gun pointed to my head. | 10:26 |
| mece | ieatlint, a factor wherE? | 10:26 |
| mece | TSCHAKeee, a whaa? | 10:27 |
| ieatlint | mece: in samsung joining with intel | 10:27 |
| mece | ieatlint, I think it's just intel being desperate | 10:27 |
| ieatlint | TSCHAKeee: there's more to it than that | 10:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | mece: seriously? you're going to pretend there's actually a choice? | 10:27 |
| ieatlint | windows phone, for instance | 10:27 |
| TSCHAKeee | there isn't. | 10:27 |
| ieatlint | but devs are attracted not only by users, but by returns | 10:28 |
| mece | TSCHAKeee, well now there's meltemi too. | 10:28 |
| ieatlint | and android's marketplace has notorious issues with apps that cost even $1 being shunned | 10:28 |
| ajalkane | ieatlint: tizen domain was registered before google motorola | 10:28 |
| TSCHAKeee | it is very evident that open source communities are basically being viewed as everything from unpaid volunteer labour, to something akin to kids being used as pawns by divorced parents. | 10:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | very dramatic conclusions, but think about it, seriously. | 10:29 |
| ieatlint | ajalkane: not sure what to say about that, just checked when it was | 10:29 |
| ieatlint | june 23.. | 10:29 |
| mece | TSCHAKeee, if that thing is what I think it is, things could be pretty good for Qt devs | 10:29 |
| ieatlint | all i can say, is that intel made the decision well after that | 10:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | I am absolutely furious that people like DawnFoster knew about this last minute coupling with Tizen | 10:29 |
| TSCHAKeee | and yet are playing it off like a parent who wants the kids to come with them in the divorce. | 10:30 |
| ieatlint | TSCHAKeee: we're all being played, don't be hard on dawn | 10:30 |
| TSCHAKeee | with no indication that things were wrong in the first place.. you know..like what happened a year ago. | 10:30 |
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| ajalkane | I'm staying with harmattan. Gots me n950, will gots me N9. Gonna die that way. | 10:31 |
| ieatlint | intel swung the axe 6 months after nokia, but we all knew it was coming | 10:31 |
| ieatlint | and after they did it, they promised the world, that everything we wanted out of meego would still be there | 10:31 |
| mece | ajalkane, ditto | 10:32 |
| * xarcass stays with iphone for money and with harmattan for fun | 10:33 | |
| TSCHAKeee | ieatlint: every single time, i have backed an open platform, it has gone nowhere... this leads me to believe that I have very poor decision making skills... | 10:33 |
| ieatlint | we're you with openmoko too? :P | 10:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | I'm just.... | 10:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | yes. | 10:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | I have a neo1973, and a gta02 | 10:33 |
| ieatlint | yeah, i had two gta02s.. | 10:33 |
| ieatlint | still have one | 10:33 |
| ieatlint | i use the carrying case still :) | 10:33 |
| TSCHAKeee | many years later, and they still don't work very well. | 10:33 |
| macmaN | ieatlint: got any pointers for the android market study youre referring to? | 10:33 |
| ieatlint | macmaN: admittedly anecdotal | 10:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | ieatlint: the greedy fucks of this world will not allow an open platform. | 10:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | and even google, has created the world's largest honey pot with Android | 10:34 |
| ieatlint | but on that same point, i'll also state that apple was at one point looking into meego, and discussing adopting parts of it, prior to nokia's announcement | 10:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | open..yes...but the door only swings in one direction. | 10:34 |
| TSCHAKeee | ieatlint: why? it's not in Apple's best interest. | 10:35 |
| TSCHAKeee | Apple's whole business model is predicated on "all roads lead to Apple." | 10:35 |
| ieatlint | nah, just making a joke about not having figures to back up my claim of poor returns in the android marketplace | 10:36 |
| macmaN | ajalkane: im with you on that. i seriously doubt these androidz and other toys can do much of what i need and wont be able to do on harmattan. | 10:36 |
| *** dm8tbr sets mode: -q djszapi!*@* | 10:36 | |
| *** dm8tbr sets mode: -o dm8tbr | 10:36 | |
| ieatlint | i tease my friends with android with the features of harmattan, my friends tease me with the fact they can reliably make phone calls and do wifi hotspots, or flash | 10:36 |
| ieatlint | we're all losers :) | 10:37 |
| macmaN | ieatlint: ok. we have a galaxy tab in the house as well for the female, so i'm kinda interested in all sorts of views on this | 10:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | and the iphone users are blissfully ignorant of all of it | 10:37 |
| mece | ieatlint, you can't reliably make calls and use wifi? | 10:37 |
| mece | ...hotspot | 10:37 |
| macmaN | i havent had a call problem yet | 10:37 |
| * TSCHAKeee has been able to. | 10:37 | |
| mece | I have no problems with either of those. | 10:37 |
| ieatlint | the new firmware fixed the calling issues | 10:37 |
| TSCHAKeee | ieatlint: disappearing dialer UI while making a call? | 10:38 |
| macmaN | didnt have an issue on 22-6. granted, i call very little. | 10:38 |
| ieatlint | although i do still take issue with part of the contacts system... i get a call, and it tells me the number is found in two contacts, but not which two | 10:38 |
| macmaN | phone call is my absolutely least favorite way to do anything. | 10:38 |
| ieatlint | yeah, the smartphone is great because we get to maker fewer calls | 10:38 |
| ieatlint | #1 way to market to geeks: remove direct human interaction | 10:38 |
| ieatlint | i'm far more likely to order a pizza from you if i can do it online, for instance | 10:39 |
| macmaN | great. had to interrupt SDK Maintenance operation and now the whole update thing is borked | 10:39 |
| macmaN | could not fetch a valid version of updates.xml | 10:40 |
| macmaN | i guess complete uninstall time | 10:40 |
| ieatlint | macmaN: and my anecdotal claim about poor returns on apps for sale in the android marketplace has been told to me by different people i trust on a few occasions | 10:41 |
| ieatlint | but i don't have a study to quote... could google for one, perhaps | 10:41 |
| *** zz_gri is now known as gri | 10:41 | |
| ieatlint | it all makes sense though, which is why i believe it in part | 10:41 |
| RST38h | ieatlint <== 100% correct | 10:41 |
| ieatlint | android phones target lower income people | 10:42 |
| TSCHAKeee | the mobile world is headed for a crash. | 10:42 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: not really | 10:42 |
| ieatlint | who have less disposable income, and often pre-paid phone plans | 10:42 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: not just lower income | 10:42 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: it targets normal, non technical people | 10:42 |
| ieatlint | but most of the advertisements i see are how you can get an android phone on the cheap carriers for $50 | 10:42 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: who, on the average, have attention spans of a fruit fly | 10:42 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: which is nicely illustrated by Marketplace stats vs stats for the same apps for other platforms | 10:43 |
| ieatlint | i was most recently told the poor returns claim by a MS rep actually | 10:44 |
| RST38h | does not matter who it is | 10:44 |
| ieatlint | while he at the same point spoke of MS's store imposing minimum app prices to ensure "you developers are able to make money" (ie, they get their 30%) | 10:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | i've tried to get my fiancee, to use my N950 | 10:44 |
| RST38h | same story for 99.999% of Android devs | 10:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | she is an iphone user | 10:44 |
| TSCHAKeee | and won't touch my phone. | 10:44 |
| RST38h | TSCHAKEeee: Good reason to dump her, maaan =) | 10:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | rst38h: nah, I've got a good one. | 10:45 |
| TSCHAKeee | ;) | 10:45 |
| gri | TSCHAKeee: My girlfriend tries to swipe on every phone when she does not know how to get out of the application :) | 10:45 |
| ajalkane | it'd be blasphemy touching another phone | 10:45 |
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| TSCHAKeee | but it illustrates, that she's basically joined the cult of apple | 10:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | they've programmed her | 10:46 |
| TSCHAKeee | and she won't touch anything else. | 10:46 |
| * RST38h wonders what happens to Steve Jobs' body when he dies | 10:46 | |
| ieatlint | my gf is on a nexus s, and just gets awkward about the n9/n950 because she knows i'm depressed at its fate | 10:46 |
| gri | Most people I know who have a Iphone say "never again" | 10:46 |
| ieatlint | so, success! | 10:46 |
| ajalkane | Cremation, I think | 10:46 |
| RST38h | The guy is such a perfectionist, I am sure he hates the idea of his corpse rotting in the ground or burning in an oven | 10:47 |
| ieatlint | if he's not there for the iphone 5 launch, we know he won't survive to 2012 | 10:47 |
| * RST38h votes for plastification inside a huge plexiglass cube at the center of Apple HQ | 10:47 | |
| ieatlint | if he is, it's still a good bet he won't make it | 10:47 |
| hiemanshu | RST38h: he'll cut em into parts and make, iCorpse :) | 10:47 |
| ieatlint | RST38h: that would be perfect | 10:47 |
| gri | RST38h: The one on the sea ground (like in simpsons)? | 10:48 |
| gri | in* | 10:48 |
| RST38h | ieatlint: Apple-perfect! | 10:48 |
| hiemanshu | oh that preservation thing | 10:48 |
| ieatlint | they're just getting permission now to build their new "ufo" campus | 10:48 |
| ieatlint | he could be the centerpiece of it! | 10:48 |
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| ieatlint | like how yoda is in the center of lucas' campus | 10:48 |
| RST38h | Rotating lit up cube with Jobs inside, the jeans, the turtleneck, the whole thing | 10:48 |
| ajalkane | Apple should turn into Scientology like religion. | 10:48 |
| RST38h | ajalkane: it still hasn't? | 10:48 |
| ieatlint | yeah, it's there already | 10:49 |
| * TSCHAKeee looks at this brave new world of F/OSS that has developed over the last 30 years, and realize, well, it's just like the old world. Corrupt. | 10:49 | |
| ieatlint | they just sell electronics instead of books/seminars | 10:49 |
| ajalkane | RST38h: not yet, they need Jobs to be dead like the revered L. Ron Hubbard. | 10:49 |
| RST38h | Probably won't survive longer than 5 years after Jobs' death | 10:50 |
| ajalkane | It will if they plan the official religion status thing carefully, like Scientology did. | 10:50 |
| ieatlint | heh, it'll last, but i bet we see changes in next year's products | 10:50 |
| TSCHAKeee | life sucks, i'm going to eat a bullet and go to bed. | 10:50 |
| ieatlint | TSCHAKeee: you might want to rethink the order of those actions | 10:51 |
| mece | I thought Jobs was more the Xenu type, if we're using scientology analogies. | 10:51 |
| ieatlint | one's a lot harder to do after the other | 10:51 |
| mece | Galactic overlord :) | 10:51 |
| ajalkane | Take your N950 and N9 and other artifacts to bed. Like I do every night. I don't want to die without them. | 10:51 |
| ieatlint | mece: actually he's more hippie type | 10:51 |
| mece | LOL | 10:51 |
| ieatlint | maybe he's so sick because the homeopathic drugs didn't work right | 10:51 |
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| * jreznik thinks he has a big spaceship and then he will take all his true believers into the apple shape planet he's building in galaxy far away :) | 10:53 | |
| ieatlint | come now, it's google that has reign over moffet field (a former navy airbase now mostly held by nasa) | 10:55 |
| RST38h | Google will gladly catapult all true Apple believers into space | 10:55 |
| RST38h | As a charity even | 10:55 |
| ieatlint | that would require a lot of catapults | 10:56 |
| ajalkane | How much would earth's orbit change if we were to catapult all Apple believers into space from the same launch location at the same time? | 10:59 |
| ajalkane | Just an interesting thing to ponder at night when waiting for sleep. | 11:00 |
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| gri | What's the average weight of a Apple believer? | 11:02 |
| hiemanshu | I expect heavy, with all the money to waste in his pocket | 11:02 |
| ajalkane | I dunno. I've seen just two types. Pencilnecks and overweight. | 11:03 |
| ajalkane | Maybe they average each other out. | 11:03 |
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| xarcass | hands off Apple worshippers! who would pay me for iphone coding if you launch all iphone zealots into space? | 11:08 |
| macmaN | TSCHAKeee: damn, my girl definitely digs the n950. but she's currently on a broken ass n79 :) | 11:09 |
| gri | mine wants the n9 in red/pink/whatever the color really is (and I shall pay it ?) | 11:09 |
| jreznik | I bought hp veer for my gf, it's small, ideal for her hand but she's really unhappy... even the first beta on n950 was far far better - features, stability, bugs :( | 11:10 |
| ieatlint | the pink n9 is very pink | 11:10 |
| alterego | Mine loves the N8 | 11:10 |
| macmaN | there's a birthday coming on oct 24th in this household. guess whats the present is. | 11:11 |
| gri | jreznik: Small phone for small hands? :) | 11:11 |
| jreznik | gri: yep, it's actually awesome and I like it too, just web browsing is not a nice experience... otherwise with swipe like gestures it's easy to navigate through and you usually don't have to touch small buttnos | 11:11 |
| jreznik | buttons | 11:12 |
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| RST38h | macmaN: an iPhone? | 11:14 |
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| macmaN | RST38h: you remember office space? there's a good line in there about case of mondays. "i believe youd get your ass kicked for saying something like that" :> | 11:16 |
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| RST38h | moo, smoku | 11:19 |
| leinir | ...woow | 11:20 |
| leinir | i didn't expect to pass on my first attempt ;) | 11:20 |
| leinir | http://store.ovi.com/content/206520 | 11:20 |
| smoku | hi RST38h | 11:22 |
| gri | leinir: Wow, how long did it take through QA? I am far away from submission :/ | 11:23 |
| leinir | gri: about two days - but it /is/ a tiny app after all :) | 11:23 |
| jreznik | leinir: judging the level of current apps quality in store, I think there's no QA at all... same feeling for symbian (with real app) | 11:25 |
| leinir | ;) | 11:25 |
| jreznik | about to send one app today for harmattan - maybe I'm terribly wrong :D | 11:26 |
| iekku | should the app provider do the QA? | 11:26 |
| leinir | from what i'm aware, it's not app quality, but packaging quality :) | 11:26 |
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| * RST38h just published 7 apps | 11:31 | |
| RST38h | One is still awaiting QA | 11:31 |
| gri | What the hell? I didn't even finish one ... | 11:33 |
| ieatlint | there's a finnish pun in there somehwere | 11:34 |
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| spenap | RST38h, can you give me your publisher link? | 11:36 |
| spenap | so I can check your apps? :) | 11:36 |
| spenap | up to this moment, I've been developing, only, so I use my own apps and screenshotme, to take screenshots of my apps :D | 11:39 |
| spenap | (or vnc to take videos) | 11:39 |
| macmaN | yeah RST38h hit us up | 11:41 |
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| DocScrutinizer | ~moo | 12:01 |
| * infobot mooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass | 12:01 | |
| gri | Infobot wants my domain? :) | 12:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | cool | 12:05 |
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| spenap | I just got the confirmation that my XKCD app got accepted. It's not "a RSS app", since I'm using their JSON api: you can navigate through the strip archive, view random entries and, best of all, see the alt text. Check it, if you're interested, at http://store.ovi.com/content/205765. It's also open source, so if something in the UI pleases you, you can as well use it. | 12:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | where's the 3D-xkcd? | 12:10 |
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| spenap | 3d? | 12:11 |
| gri | spenap: Translations supported? | 12:11 |
| spenap | not yet, but feature requests and bug reports are welcome | 12:11 |
| gri | "forbidden: you are not allowed to access this feature" | 12:11 |
| RST38h | spenap: store.ovi.com/publisher/Garage%20Research/ | 12:11 |
| gri | ah, now I can open it | 12:12 |
| spenap | https://projects.developer.nokia.com/xmcr/query ← bugs and stuff here, or to me and I'll do it | 12:13 |
| spenap | RST38h, cool stuff :) | 12:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | spenap: sorry, the fsckng "google custom search" on XKCD thoroughly rapes and kills my browser, so I can't search | 12:14 |
| * gri needs an icon designer for app icon | 12:15 | |
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| spenap | DocScrutinizer, which google custom search? | 12:15 |
| spenap | you want the mobile link? | 12:15 |
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| macmaN | duckduckgo.com is the new googlez | 12:17 |
| DocScrutinizer | spenap: the "google custom search" that shows up on each xkcd page, directly under the text "Search comic titles and transcripts:" | 12:17 |
| macmaN | no tracking, no bubbling | 12:17 |
| macmaN | (othats what they claim) | 12:17 |
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| spenap | ahhhhh, I understand | 12:17 |
| spenap | you meant a particular strip, I didn't get it | 12:18 |
| TSCHAKeee | I Got this email two minutes ago...: Hello, as part of the delivery of the OBS Light project which aims at simplifying access to OBS for people who needs to run project with mixed private and public repositories, we are happy to release the first version a OBS for MeeGO appliance. | 12:22 |
| TSCHAKeee | i wanna laugh and cry at the same time. | 12:23 |
| djszapi | mmm, tizen is coming to the community obs | 12:23 |
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| DocScrutinizer | spenap: here you are: http://xk3d.xkcd.com/ | 12:27 |
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| spenap | DocScrutinizer, lol, i didn't know that one | 12:28 |
| Venemo_N950 | hey | 12:28 |
| macmaN | Venemo_N950: need new fw for n950? | 12:29 |
| djszapi | hi Venemo_N950 :) Is it hard to port a plain QML app to components ? | 12:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | macmaN, sure! :P why? | 12:29 |
| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: :)) | 12:29 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I have no idea, never used plain QML | 12:29 |
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| Venemo_N950 | btw, I just read today's news. guys, please tell me what kind of stuff they smoke in Finland.... | 12:30 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: you mean the meltemi news ? | 12:31 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, yes, I mean those news | 12:31 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: that news was available in April, already | 12:32 |
| Venemo_N950 | I just don't get it | 12:32 |
| gri | meltemi? | 12:32 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: http://www.digitoday.fi/bisnes/2011/04/27/nokialla-on-suunnitelma-meltemi/20115941/66 | 12:32 |
| djszapi | gri http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203405504576599011587667984.html?mod=googlenews_wsj | 12:32 |
| gri | Oh | 12:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | 1. they abandoned their own linux-based os. then they abandoned the linux-based os they made with intel. then they announced that they're done with linux-based oses. and now they're once again, making a linux-based os from scratch. | 12:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | are they nuts? | 12:33 |
| macmaN | yeah | 12:33 |
| Venemo_N950 | srsly. | 12:33 |
| gri | there are also news on a german site: nokia closes factory in bonn and romania | 12:33 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: it is a different market sector, low-end devices. | 12:33 |
| macmaN | somebody higher in the hierarchy must be smoking something that creates hyperactivity. | 12:34 |
| djszapi | I think it is very good because Qt keeps going this way, remains important for them not to drop Oslo yet. | 12:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, good excuse, but it's still nuts. how much code will they reuse from Maemo? | 12:34 |
| Venemo_N950 | macmaN, yeah, I had the same reaction | 12:35 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, that's at least the good part of it | 12:35 |
| macmaN | some "know it all" business guys seem to have no patience to see things through. what do they think this is a "make a successfuly ecosystem in a 18 months top, if not then we scrap and start over"? | 12:35 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: why is it bad ? I think it is actually very good. Smaller project, not like a megaproject that failed previously with more tries, and they still have the very long linux culture to make something work | 12:35 |
| Venemo_N950 | but I can already tell you that Meltemi project will be cancelled by the time it starts delivering products. | 12:36 |
| macmaN | meltemi? | 12:36 |
| djszapi | macmaN: see gri's question 4 minutes ago :) | 12:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | DANG, I almost choked and suffokated on reading "Aegean Sea" on a page about Nokia | 12:37 |
| javispedro | Venemo_N950, bright side: I no longer have to buy an iPhone then. | 12:37 |
| macmaN | oh damn, thats another new term today then. i was still talking about tizen :D | 12:37 |
| Venemo_N950 | eg. what stops nokia from releasing 10 more harmattan devices instead of symbian or wp7? nothing. but they're not doing it anyways. | 12:37 |
| macmaN | readjusting to yesterdays news.. but it turns out im already outdated! :> | 12:37 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: as for me (Qt enthusiastic), it is a /very/ good news after the tizen shock yesterday. | 12:37 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, tizen will also have qt, no shock there | 12:38 |
| Venemo_N950 | macmaN, Meltemi is their new linux-based os, this time targeted at the low-end | 12:38 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: by 100+ very experiences employees like in Oslo ? | 12:38 |
| djszapi | experienced* | 12:38 |
| javispedro | Venemo_N950, that is a bit wishful; it won't be put in there by Samsung for ex., and thus, it won't have the level of support you're used to. | 12:38 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, I'm sorry? | 12:38 |
| javispedro | (unless they DO plan to make Qt the native API...) | 12:38 |
| macmaN | Venemo_N950: ok that .fi article pretty much said nothing about that | 12:39 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: The Oslo office has 100+ employees working on Qt. Will Tizen provide that resource ? (Consider that those people are very experienced and have a very relevant culture about it) | 12:39 |
| macmaN | are you guys updating to Foursquare 0.13.1-0 from Store? | 12:40 |
| macmaN | it's failing to download for me | 12:40 |
| djszapi | Venemo_N950: iow, many company promised many things in the past, but these Qt employees have already proven a lot, haven't they ? I am happy to see them stay yet | 12:41 |
| Venemo_N950 | djszapi, idunno | 12:41 |
| javispedro | but I have to say that this is exactly something I wished that would happen | 12:42 |
| javispedro | remember the statements about "Nokia not making any future _highend_ Meego phones" ;P | 12:42 |
| * SpeedEvil doesn't. | 12:43 | |
| SpeedEvil | I just remember 'ongoing disuptive technology | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | sorry, my take on "they still have the very long linux culture to make something work" is Nokia never understood the concept of FOSS, never been playing nice, now completely fsckd it with Aegis (this time I mean Aegis and not the policy), and they for shure were damn better off using some BSD licenced stuff to abuse and commercialize - it would relieve the pain from them to publish sources and write braindamaged userland daemons for | 12:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | things that belong into kernel but they want to keep it closed - and it relieves community from constantly getting abused by them for cheap betatesters and coding monkeys that don't get anything back | 12:43 |
| macmaN | in my opinion (supported by someone working on the product team), N9 actually arriving in peoples hands in mass quantities might still change things | 12:43 |
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| javispedro | SpeedEvil: http://flors.wordpress.com/2011/06/26/the-four-wheels-spinning-meego-1-2-harmattan/ | 12:45 |
| djszapi | macmaN: in April it was already announced that Harmattan will be fully closed by 01.07.2012 :) it was even said, that since 01.01.2012 there will be just a small teams to ramp down the project fully :) | 12:45 |
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| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, you forget about meegoCE ;P | 12:46 |
| javispedro | either way, I say wait and see, as usual, as this meltemi might as well be Qtopia/Qtextended resurrected and not have X11. | 12:46 |
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| macmaN | djszapi: yep sure. i just never say never. it only takes one person to start a butterfly effect. | 12:47 |
| djszapi | I would say lighthouse instead. | 12:47 |
| javispedro | djszapi, touché. | 12:47 |
| macmaN | @selop might still get his ass kicked the hell out of .fi, once the people get some pride back in them | 12:47 |
| macmaN | remember the engineer coup that happened at nokia at around 2000ish i believe? | 12:48 |
| SpeedEvil | They've eliminated that posibility by firing all the engineers and outsourcing. | 12:48 |
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| macmaN | yeah. im just saying it will be an eyeopener. fire my start somewhere else, outside of nokia. | 12:49 |
| faenil | good morning everyone | 12:49 |
| macmaN | may* | 12:49 |
| faenil | Updates available in Qt SDK | 12:49 |
| faenil | for those of you who did not notice it :) | 12:49 |
| macmaN | i for one will be doing whatever i can to start that fire and keep the flame | 12:49 |
| faenil | Qt Creator 2.3.1, Harmattan Beta2 target, and other things in the new Qt SDK update | 12:50 |
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| javispedro | the qtcreatorbug I filled' fix still not in it | 12:50 |
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| javispedro | :( | 12:51 |
| javispedro | I wonder when did they branch 2.3.1.. | 12:51 |
| javispedro | ah, probably from 2.3 not master | 12:51 |
| gri | A description what has been changed on the harmattan target would be nice | 12:52 |
| gri | Since I installed a few packages manually inside and don't know if it clashes when updating | 12:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: hey | 12:56 |
| RST38h | moo javispedro | 12:56 |
| javispedro | morning | 12:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | check your autojoins! | 12:56 |
| javispedro | I'm not at my usual place | 12:57 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aaah | 12:57 |
| khertan | Morning | 12:57 |
| kulve | can I configure the n950's led to notify about new SMS' etc? | 12:57 |
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| djszapi | alterego: I could not get it work, dh_make will not be there in scratchbox. | 12:58 |
| javispedro | hm? | 12:58 |
| javispedro | dh_make should work? | 12:59 |
| javispedro | (it has worked for me in the past) | 12:59 |
| djszapi | no, it is not there by default. | 12:59 |
| javispedro | ah, true. | 12:59 |
| javispedro | but you can install it, dh-make package iirc | 12:59 |
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| javispedro | or, there was package about MTF application templates | 12:59 |
| javispedro | *a package | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile, Nokia is going to lay off another 3500 employees by the end of 2012 | 13:00 |
| kkito | hello | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Good work, good work indeed | 13:00 |
| djszapi | of course we can, that is not the point ;) | 13:00 |
| alterego | djszapi: thanks for looking in to it :) | 13:00 |
| javispedro | RST38h, WHAT? | 13:00 |
| RST38h | What you have heard | 13:00 |
| javispedro | :P | 13:01 |
| RST38h | -2200 people at the Romanian factory | 13:01 |
| djszapi | alterego: they said, it is not recommended to use dh_make, we should use /usr/bin/create-project or QtCreator. | 13:01 |
| RST38h | -1300 people from Location&Commerce | 13:01 |
| gri | RST38h: Don't forget the german workers and the amount of money they announced to pump into NSN | 13:01 |
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| RST38h | What is NSN? | 13:02 |
| gri | nokia siemens network | 13:02 |
| djszapi | alterego: I cannot believe, they also reject git-buildpackage... | 13:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | kulve: MohammadAG did sth like that, beta2 / MSSF-policy broke it as | 13:03 |
| khertan | who reject ? ovi store ? | 13:04 |
| djszapi | alterego: unfortunately, we do not even have a package for that. | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG: messing with LED is way too dangerous, mustn't get allowed to users/mere-mortal-devels | 13:04 |
| DocScrutinizer | kulve: ^^^ | 13:04 |
| alterego | Heh | 13:04 |
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| RST38h | ah | 13:05 |
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| gri | DocScrutinizer: You could make people blind with the LED :P | 13:05 |
| RST38h | run it in bursts! | 13:05 |
| kulve | DocScrutinizer: ok, so there's no option in the UI for that. It's a bit annoying.. | 13:07 |
| javispedro | probably it is false that the N9 doesn't have a LED | 13:07 |
| khertan | they protect it to avoid fake sms notification that invit you to a phishing web site ? | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you could add that to http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy , I'm not enough on topic to do it and I guess MohammadAG missed to add it | 13:07 |
| khertan | :) | 13:07 |
| javispedro | it has one, it's just 1W | 13:07 |
| javispedro | and laser =) | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: it's definitely false | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | N9 has a monocolor LED | 13:07 |
| DocScrutinizer | like N950 | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | according to schematics | 13:08 |
| djszapi | what is missing to the led ? | 13:08 |
| djszapi | to get it controlled ? | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | ask MohammadAG - sth about dbus policy | 13:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | can't send to mce | 13:08 |
| javispedro | djszapi, the mce::LEDControl token | 13:08 |
| djszapi | I could ask internally, if I get /precise/ details. | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: much appreciated | 13:09 |
| djszapi | any snippet to reproduce the issue ? | 13:09 |
| javispedro | MohammadAG will probably have one when he comes in | 13:09 |
| DocScrutinizer | MohammadAG has an app that would work without that issue | 13:09 |
| javispedro | this one's could be a good headstart | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno where he's "publishing" | 13:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | xceleeo.foo/mohammadag/foo/bar | 13:10 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, btw nice catch about the LED thing | 13:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | yw | 13:11 |
| khertan | does there is a way to run things as root on n9/n950, i mean if i want to make a package manager application is it possible ? | 13:11 |
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| DocScrutinizer | hehehe | 13:11 |
| javispedro | fortunately, the answer to that is yes | 13:11 |
| khertan | i ask not for trolling ... i ll probably do one ... | 13:11 |
| javispedro | you technically can make a package manager that goes through pkgmgrd | 13:12 |
| khertan | javispedro: did you know if someone is doing one ? | 13:12 |
| javispedro | the required tokens are available for both ovi and developer. | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | \o/ | 13:12 |
| djszapi | khertan: ui or also a new daemon ? | 13:12 |
| khertan | no no ... Just ui | 13:12 |
| khertan | there is enough daemon | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | lol | 13:12 |
| khertan | s/is/are | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | spoooooky | 13:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-P | 13:12 |
| gri | wasn't there someone creating the "community app downloader"? | 13:12 |
| khertan | the thing is that the default ui didin't event list available package | 13:13 |
| javispedro | yeah, replacing pkgmgrd itself is more .... UNpossible ;P | 13:13 |
| khertan | just installed one | 13:13 |
| khertan | which is quite annoying | 13:13 |
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| djszapi | actually, I am now wondering whether my Qt backend would work, probably not. | 13:13 |
| khertan | of course there is ovistore ... but it list only ovistore rss app | 13:13 |
| djszapi | I wrote last year a qt package manager... | 13:13 |
| khertan | djszapi: in qml ? | 13:14 |
| * gri also did a package lister in qml but for maemo some time ago | 13:14 | |
| djszapi | khertan: no, it was mostly an experimental project, and I was satisfied with the cli frontend, but Ui should even be easier. | 13:14 |
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| djszapi | http://gitorious.org/akabei-core | 13:14 |
| djszapi | http://gitorious.org/akabei-network | 13:14 |
| djszapi | it would not work though, since /etc/init/ is integrity protected for instance. | 13:15 |
| djszapi | sorry, etc | 13:15 |
| javispedro | there's this too https://gitorious.org/meego-developer-edition-for-n900/mg-package-manager/ | 13:15 |
| javispedro | but I'm not sure pkgrmgrd implements packagekit API | 13:15 |
| djszapi | it does not. | 13:16 |
| djszapi | they rejected that from the day first. | 13:16 |
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| javispedro | oh well. | 13:16 |
| khertan | oh nice harmattan package-manager is closed source | 13:17 |
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| gri | Does someone know if ovi checks where the package installs the binaries? So may I get rejected for installing binaries to /usr/bin instead of /opt/myapp/bin? | 13:20 |
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| khertan | oh there is still people interested in publish things to ovi | 13:20 |
| khertan | i'm surprized | 13:20 |
| djszapi | gri: they do not published how they defend. That is something I was asking more times previously. | 13:21 |
| djszapi | and they do not provide a test ovi either ;) | 13:21 |
| djszapi | did not publish* | 13:21 |
| gri | This means they don't care as long as the package has description and the app can't be started twice? | 13:21 |
| khertan | someone know where i can found documentation about packagemgrd ? | 13:21 |
| djszapi | gri: no, it means, the analyze procedure is in secret afaik | 13:22 |
| gri | Ok ? :( | 13:22 |
| khertan | gri: if you are trying to publish open source app can i suggest you the community obs ? | 13:23 |
| djszapi | I am sure they would consider my deny allow package as ham. | 13:23 |
| gri | khertan: The community obs is not visible to "normal" users like my gf | 13:23 |
| djszapi | khertan: community obs cannot grant credentials. | 13:23 |
| khertan | lol | 13:23 |
| djszapi | khertan: and as gri said, yes :( | 13:23 |
| djszapi | *certain credentials | 13:23 |
| khertan | gri: but you well not get more visibility with ovi store too ... hard to found something between rss apps | 13:24 |
| djszapi | that is also another subject about OVI I dislike, they do not provide enough room for the community repository, like the extra for N900 | 13:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | gri: I couldn't care less about your grandfather, though he's probably a nice man :-P | 13:24 |
| khertan | gri: you can install the community repository with one web click | 13:24 |
| gri | DocScrutinizer: He is a very nice man :) | 13:25 |
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| gri | khertan: I also would like the statistics ovi seems to offer | 13:26 |
| gri | khertan: But true about rss apps ? they should be banned to their own category | 13:26 |
| gri | "rss apps" -> "social", "crime" | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | ok, where's the URL to get that new SDK? | 13:27 |
| gri | DocScrutinizer: "Qt SDK Update Utility"? | 13:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | yes that one | 13:27 |
| gri | if you already have a sdk installed, that should be somewhere on your disk | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | haha | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | I don't | 13:28 |
| gri | http://qt.nokia.com/downloads | 13:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | still saving ham from my bread to get me another HDD with free space | 13:28 |
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| gri | You could save the bread and it the ham instead | 13:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | I have to get another dose of valium to survive the mere number of possible downloads on that qt site | 13:31 |
| DocScrutinizer | while probably 90% are irrelevant junk for harmattan development | 13:31 |
| gri | eat not it btw. | 13:31 |
| djszapi | how many N900s were sold ? | 13:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: YOU should know NOBODY here knows, or isn't allowed to tell if he did | 13:32 |
| gri | DocScrutinizer: Be prepared to also need a scratchbox sdk for downloading packages which are missing in the qt sdk for harmattan :/ | 13:32 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: Over 150k in the first 5 weeks I think is the only thing that was ever officially stated | 13:33 |
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| djszapi | SpeedEvil: okay, thanks. | 13:33 |
| SpeedEvil | So half a million is probably somewhat conservative | 13:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: there are sales statistics on developer.nokia.com launchpad | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | dunno if they inclode numbers for N900 | 13:34 |
| gri | A interesting number would also be: How many N900s are still alive | 13:34 |
| DocScrutinizer | gri: hehe | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | gri: Nokia have that number too - at least statistically | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | s(alive/in use/ | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | gri: They are _still_ paying me for an ongoing user survey. | 13:35 |
| DocScrutinizer | LOLWUT? | 13:35 |
| SpeedEvil | (10 pounds/3mo) | 13:35 |
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| SpeedEvil | It's a framework that logs every app launch, signal change, ... | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | STILL??? | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | It's possible the person in charge of the program got canned, and nobodies turned it off. | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | now how many tickets are open against that spyware? | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | But - hey - free money. | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: It's not spyware if it actually tells you what it's doing. | 13:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | dang | 13:36 |
| SpeedEvil | Also - the bug I reported against it got fixed within a week. | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | even more likely there should be tickets open against it? | 13:37 |
| gri | n950's can be tracked by the ovi notification service :) | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | DUH | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | friggin shit | 13:37 |
| gri | atleast I can see how many people have my app running | 13:37 |
| SpeedEvil | (on boot, it would change permissions on /home - breaking ssh | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | now we know how to make bugs get fixed | 13:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | simply link them to Nokia spyware somehow | 13:37 |
| khertan | uh ? | 13:38 |
| khertan | what is this spyware ? | 13:38 |
| khertan | where is the binary ? | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | khertan: It's part of a panel I was asked to be part of. | 13:38 |
| khertan | is it protected by aegis ? | 13:38 |
| SpeedEvil | khertan: Shortly after n900 launch. | 13:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | hahaha fremantle | 13:38 |
| * DocScrutinizer dances and sings "no aegis on fremantle" | 13:39 | |
| khertan | as we are on harmattan i think it was a harmattan thing | 13:39 |
| khertan | :) | 13:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Amusingly - integrating all of the rebates and bonuses from participating, my n900 has I think cost me about 80 pounds. | 13:39 |
| khertan | did you also got memory full notification on your n950 ? | 13:39 |
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| khertan | SpeedEvil: mine cost me 0 ;) i sell it the same price i bought it :) | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-29 12:34:51] <gri> A interesting number would also be: How many N900s are still alive | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-29 12:35:05] <DocScrutinizer> gri: hehe | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | [2011-09-29 12:35:09] <SpeedEvil> gri: Nokia have that number too - at least statistically | 13:40 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer: thx :) | 13:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | gri: SpeedEvil: btw Nokia needs no spyware for *that* - RMA statistics are sufficient | 13:41 |
| SpeedEvil | True | 13:42 |
| gri | RMA? | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | and Nokia has damn precise numbers about that, you bet | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: Well - yes and no | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | let's try it: | 13:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | ~rma | 13:42 |
| infobot | from memory, rma is Return Materials Authorisation, or the process you go through when you want to return a dead part to a manufacturer in exchange for a new one | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | DocScrutinizer: RMA tells you about inuse * personcaresabout * failurepercentage | 13:42 |
| SpeedEvil | * knowsaboutwarranty | 13:42 |
| djszapi | mmm, ovi policies are decided by OVI, and I guess they did not want to check manually whether a code abuses the led control or not and pissing the user off. | 13:43 |
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| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: c'mon - abusing the LED? pissing off user?? | 13:43 |
| djszapi | DocScrutinizer: yes, heavy blinking for instance | 13:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | ouch!!!!! | 13:44 |
| * DocScrutinizer gets heavy headache from heavy LED blinking | 13:44 | |
| djszapi | it is not about headache, it is about something a user would not like (for instance me) | 13:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | admit it, it's a plain old bug in policy | 13:44 |
| djszapi | meaning that OVI should check every single code for that what they do with it and why. I bet they did not have enough resource for that. | 13:45 |
| khertan | ~wac | 13:45 |
| javispedro | let's drop the topic, we already know how it ends | 13:45 |
| Tronic | Cannot do that with status led but blinking the camera LEDs is fine? :) | 13:45 |
| Tronic | Maybe you could use those for your status messages. | 13:45 |
| javispedro | haha | 13:45 |
| javispedro | FLASH! | 13:45 |
| * javispedro rofls | 13:45 | |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: please don't argue silly - there's way worse things *every* app could do, than just telling mce to please enable PatternMessageArrived | 13:46 |
| djszapi | actually, I just stop helping, I do not even ask it internally, thanks for calling silly, kindly. | 13:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | plus I say more users would like the LED to do *anything useful* rather than sitting there dead | 13:47 |
| djszapi | why I try to figure out the reason and help YOU. | 13:47 |
| javispedro | see why I said drop the topic | 13:47 |
| djszapi | but, okay, I am now stopping it. | 13:47 |
| gri | The blinking led was a pretty cool thing about the n900. No need to turn on the display :) | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: sorry I used the wrong letters to phrase a completely reasonable concern and thus insulted your delicate feelings | 13:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: special bonus goes to you, for negating each good thing you contribute with a statement so agonizing and defending whatever silly decision anybody inside Nokia did with "I do like it just that way" | 13:50 |
| djszapi | can anybody tell me which statement of mine defended this led issues ? | 13:51 |
| djszapi | issue* | 13:51 |
| DocScrutinizer | here you are: >>... it is about something a user would not like (for instance me)<< | 13:51 |
| djszapi | :DDDDDddddddd | 13:51 |
| djszapi | next post: 13:45 < djszapi> meaning that OVI should check every single code for that what they do with it and why. I bet they did not have enough resource for that. | 13:52 |
| djszapi | it does not mean I like they are not checking it, I just mentioned a possible reason. | 13:52 |
| djszapi | please do not misinterpret it. | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | I *BET* 95% of users would like mohammad's LED driver to notify about new msgs better than a Policy that blocks such efforts completely "to not anny users" | 13:52 |
| DocScrutinizer | djszapi: that's obviously the problem, some of us tend to misinterpret pretty much each other statement of yours | 13:54 |
| djszapi | sure...people would like to get heavily blinking leds after downloading an application from ovi, sure...without being able to stop it.. | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | I dunno how that could be helped | 13:54 |
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| djszapi | that is probably the 95, yes. | 13:54 |
| djszapi | sorry, but this was another issue again, you scared me out of helping anything internally. | 13:54 |
| DocScrutinizer | hooray | 13:54 |
| javispedro | sigh | 13:55 |
| javispedro | djszapi has his opinion and has been proven to be impossible to change. | 13:55 |
| javispedro | we have ours, he says we are out of touch with reality, we say he's the one out of touch | 13:55 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why it scares me when he even picks up a topic | 13:56 |
| javispedro | we argue, throw again the same points over and over again | 13:56 |
| javispedro | and retry the next day | 13:56 |
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| javispedro | which is why I'm not touching the topic with a ten foot pole | 13:56 |
| DocScrutinizer | so you suggest I should finally go back to using /ignore ? | 13:57 |
| javispedro | unless on the other side there's someone that could understand that yes, users can sometimes prefer the "heavy lights" (whatever that is) | 13:57 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, no, there are topics other than aegis. | 13:58 |
| djszapi | it is not even aegis topics | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | *plonk* | 13:58 |
| DocScrutinizer | this time for real | 13:58 |
| javispedro | but he's right, though, it's not "aegis" perse. | 13:58 |
| javispedro | it's OVI policy, whose managers are probably even harder to reach | 13:59 |
| javispedro | we just put everything on the same bag ;P | 13:59 |
| DocScrutinizer | it doesn't matter who's to reach when the dude you're talking to says he would get annoyed by mohammad's app and thus prefers the device policy forbids it as he claims he doesn't know how to "stop it" | 14:00 |
| javispedro | see above | 14:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | you wouldn't expect such dude to do anything about the issue, no matter if those damagers are reachable or not | 14:01 |
| javispedro | for the time being, I'm putting the usecase on the wiki and hoping that someone who understands will have a look. | 14:01 |
| artemma | he'd also not know how to stop chat messages popping up all the time :) | 14:01 |
| artemma | uninstallation should be able to stop and undo everything for any decent app | 14:01 |
| djszapi | artemma: except that you can do anything from maintainer script | 14:02 |
| djszapi | and ovi check will pass it. | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | you might get scared though about this dude might find there's possibly a workaround to still operate the LEDs and would fix it - esp when that dude claims he's in chage for the policy config somehow | 14:02 |
| DocScrutinizer | btw >>[2011-09-29 12:43:08] <djszapi> mmm, ovi policies are decided by OVI, and I guess they did not want to check manually whether a code abuses the led control or not and pissing the user off.<< **I GUESS** WTF?!? thanks for the help! | 14:05 |
| javispedro | note that I too believe the LED thing to be _in error_, even if by design error. | 14:05 |
| javispedro | As e.g. an application is free to use the vibrator, or the Flash LEDs, as said above. | 14:05 |
| javispedro | An a non-stopping vibrator is more annoying plus potentially device breaking. | 14:05 |
| javispedro | hm | 14:05 |
| javispedro | tbh, the library used for vibrator might have a max duration | 14:06 |
| javispedro | I think that's the case. | 14:06 |
| javispedro | but still you're allowed to trigger it whenever you want. | 14:06 |
| * RST38h points out that Nokia 5800 had a firmware (not updated for ~6 months) that often left it stuck, with vibrator turned on | 14:06 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: mce patterns all have a max duration to set | 14:06 |
| RST38h | HOw is any security framework going to protect you against that> | 14:06 |
| djszapi | I have never said I agree with those abuses. | 14:07 |
| javispedro | djszapi, which ones, that they forbid the leds or, that they allow the vibrator? ;) | 14:07 |
| javispedro | cause I'm still somewhat expecting that what will happen is that the next firmware will forbid vibrator and flash LEDs, just in case! | 14:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: let's face the facts, djszapi pulled a reason out of his arse to justify a bug in policy, then got stinky when we said it's not exactly a good reason | 14:08 |
| khertan | Tizen SDK : http://t.co/mSaUhuCm | 14:08 |
| javispedro | khertan, WAC? | 14:08 |
| RST38h | khertan: Cannot be. You know why? | 14:08 |
| javispedro | ah, it's a joke =) | 14:09 |
| djszapi | javispedro: I am rejecting how the OPI is happening to be. | 14:09 |
| macmaN | anybody here know if its possible to augment the lock screen with information from media player? id like to have now playing info there. | 14:09 |
| RST38h | Because it would require IE! =) | 14:09 |
| djszapi | I would expect more quality where your questions would be outdated. | 14:09 |
| khertan | RST38h: :) | 14:09 |
| djszapi | so that everybody could be happy with proper quality, and they could use the things if they do not abuse the system | 14:09 |
| javispedro | djszapi, well, I think this is a quite minor thing that for a change someone from Ovi could show some good faith and potentially enable. | 14:10 |
| RST38h | Doc: I disagree on the "got stinky" part. Never stopped. | 14:10 |
| javispedro | djszapi, this is not sys_admin or some other virtually hole through the security policy. just led control. | 14:11 |
| djszapi | javispedro: well, I am a security guy, what do you expect ? Bad quality applications going out ? :) | 14:11 |
| javispedro | to prove _something_ can be done | 14:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: now this is a 20ft pole then? ;-) | 14:11 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, touché. | 14:11 |
| * RST38h asserts the number of IRC messages spent to justify/reject the use of Aegis to prohibit LED control, since this morning | 14:12 | |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: prepare for next fw release getting access to all leds, vibrator, and LCD locked | 14:12 |
| * RST38h sighs in disbelief | 14:12 | |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, yeah, I've not yet discard that could happen.. | 14:12 |
| javispedro | well, LCD ;P | 14:12 |
| DocScrutinizer | that's why djszapi scares me each time he says a word | 14:12 |
| artemma | indeed, most of apps can use LCD for showing things not every manager knows how to stop. Oups | 14:13 |
| javispedro | djszapi, you should have been there when that script kiddie came and starting talking the usual "every system is crackable" speech | 14:13 |
| javispedro | *started giving | 14:13 |
| javispedro | djszapi, would have put you in a quite bad mood =) | 14:14 |
| javispedro | s/there/here :P | 14:14 |
| RST38h | javispedro: Wait until Harmattan does get cracked and every script kiddie and non-script non-kiddie out there jailbreaks it | 14:15 |
| khertan | every os is crackable with a good hammer :) | 14:15 |
| RST38h | javispedro: guaranteed to give djzsapi the eternal damnation of butt pain | 14:16 |
| djszapi | javispedro: well, not really, that is true (I know many aegis issues yet to get tcb anyways) | 14:16 |
| djszapi | but it does not mean I do not try to move toward the safest and best quality solution. | 14:17 |
| khertan | issue that require a sledgehammer ? | 14:17 |
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| djszapi | no, what javispedro said: "every system is crackable" | 14:17 |
| javispedro | but still, just look at android forum today | 14:18 |
| macmaN | what hapened today | 14:18 |
| djszapi | javispedro: link ? | 14:18 |
| javispedro | djszapi, xda developers for ex | 14:19 |
| javispedro | either official holes are teared through the system now, or the daily conversation casual topic will become "how did you root that phone?" | 14:19 |
| javispedro | which is sth I'd like to avoid. | 14:19 |
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| djszapi | javispedro: I would have helped with the issue, if it is a bug, and not my guess. | 14:19 |
| SpeedEvil | Easily rootable phones that are casually rooted by 'power users' are _evil_. | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | From a free software POV. | 14:20 |
| * DocScrutinizer sighs - even from the few lines that still appear on his screen | 14:20 | |
| RST38h | what is free software POV? | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | Especially if they warez-like nonsense like cyanogenmod | 14:20 |
| SpeedEvil | ^encourage | 14:21 |
| javispedro | RST38h, this is the "pirated windows is damaging free operating systems" argument | 14:21 |
| javispedro | (I personally agree with it) | 14:21 |
| djszapi | javispedro: http://forum.xda-developers.com/forumdisplay.php?f=448 ? | 14:21 |
| macmaN | pot of view | 14:21 |
| RST38h | javispedro: ah | 14:21 |
| macmaN | point* | 14:21 |
| RST38h | javispedro: but you are paying for the freaking phone, ain't you? | 14:21 |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: From a point of view of the ecology of free sotware. Needs users, and devs. Distracting either to rooted platforms is harmful | 14:21 |
| javispedro | djszapi, for example. the first thread -- rom bible -- about cracking | 14:21 |
| javispedro | and many others | 14:21 |
| RST38h | javispedro: and there is no way you can install a usable linux on it | 14:22 |
| djszapi | ok, will skim tonight | 14:22 |
| javispedro | RST38h, but it means that a platform that tries to promote openess (argably Nokia's) has to compete with a platform that doesn't, but everyone does it illegaly | 14:23 |
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| *** Eugene is now known as Guest85915 | 14:23 | |
| SpeedEvil | RST38h: usable linux isn't the only distraction of rootable platforms. Many devs are distracted to doing stuff with rooted android phones, that is not productive. | 14:24 |
| RST38h | javispedro: ah ok | 14:24 |
| javispedro | so the conversation goes like "buy a n900, you can run XXX on it!" "but I can on my existing $DROID_PHONE after installing $WHATEVERS_TODAYS_CYANOGED_CRAP_IS!" | 14:24 |
| RST38h | javispedro: well, nokia neither promotes openness nor competes with other platforms nowadays, so it is all historic now | 14:24 |
| javispedro | yes, that's sadly true. | 14:24 |
| javispedro | and one of the reasons for the many aegis discussions here. | 14:24 |
| javispedro | s/aegis/"security policy" ;P | 14:24 |
| DocScrutinizer | me considers a blind +q * | 14:25 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: I have yet to see anyone doing any intelligent development for Android | 14:25 |
| RST38h | SpeedEvil: All I am seeing is 1) fart apps 2) crude ports of the existing open sourced projects | 14:25 |
| * DocScrutinizer can't find a pole long enough to touch this chan, gave up at ~100ft | 14:26 | |
| djszapi | interesting, one guy told me that (not from OVI), the led control is forbidden on purpose since it is close to the hardware operation | 14:26 |
| djszapi | and it can be abused in a way, it ruins other hardware parts. | 14:27 |
| khertan | hum interesting ... | 14:27 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: HP has rented the services of Goldman Sachs Group to fend off any potential activist investors seeking to rock the boat. | 14:27 |
| javispedro | that's probably a bug then | 14:27 |
| khertan | we should remove write access on fs too ... it can be abuse to fuckup the flash | 14:27 |
| javispedro | the token is "LedControl", not "RuinDeviceControl" ;P | 14:27 |
| RST38h | Doc: Simply ignore him | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | looking at backscroll since ~4h ago I'm damn convinced some user here is a friggin help to general harmattan development | 14:27 |
| RST38h | Doc: Until someone bans him again | 14:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: I did since *plonk* - this time for real | 14:28 |
| RST38h | javispedrO: btw, is it notification led or the flash led? | 14:28 |
| javispedro | RST38h, notification, flash seems to be wide accesible | 14:28 |
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| DocScrutinizer | until next "fix" djszapi pushes | 14:29 |
| RST38h | javispedro: sounds opposite to what one would suspect: you may be able to overload and burn the flash led but why prohibit notification? | 14:29 |
| javispedro | RST38h, you know, we've been having this argument for the past half an hour ;P | 14:29 |
| RST38h | eehehehe | 14:29 |
| djszapi | yes, they confirmed it, and they repeated actually what I said above. It can mess up the many signals already existing and other things. | 14:30 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: care to elaborate on the exact meaning of the "some user" part | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: MCE does the LED control though. | 14:30 |
| javispedro | djszapi, well, thanks for relaying that. | 14:30 |
| RST38h | gibberish | 14:30 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: MCE is a platform software. | 14:30 |
| javispedro | djszapi, but, could that be considered a bug? | 14:30 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: So if anything can convince MCE to do that, it's a bug. | 14:31 |
| djszapi | javispedro: why do you always guess the best about developers ? This is something I never understand | 14:31 |
| javispedro | "guess the best"? | 14:31 |
| SpeedEvil | If you can simply tell MCE to flash the LED, that argument is flawed. | 14:31 |
| djszapi | javispedro: imho, it is just a compromise among the hardware developers (read as in for instance, to not have bigger hardware in sizes, etc) | 14:31 |
| javispedro | I usually guess the worst, because I'm one ;P | 14:31 |
| djszapi | javispedro: sorry, *worst | 14:31 |
| RST38h | javispedro: he is talking nonsense. the notification led is basically connected to a GPIO or a PWM output. Has no other connections. | 14:31 |
| RST38h | javispedro: and yes, you never control it directly even in maemo5, you ask MCE and MCE controls it | 14:32 |
| javispedro | I know, I'm trying to follow. | 14:32 |
| RST38h | javispedro: he is feeding us bullshit, I am afraid | 14:32 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: the notification LED is connected to a LP5523 LED controller with pattern engines | 14:33 |
| RST38h | maybe it works on their middle management though | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | mce controlls that controller | 14:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | user sends a dbus msg to mce and asks for a predefined pattern | 14:33 |
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| DocScrutinizer | aegis^Wpolicy is forbidding this dbus msg | 14:34 |
| javispedro | djszapi, either way, we might lack information, but with the one we have we consider that to be a potential bug in MCE. We think that interacting with the LED should not cause any problem with any other component, and that was the case in fact on the N900. | 14:34 |
| khertan | the real reason is that evil developper could use it to write subliminal message in user brain | 14:34 |
| RST38h | rrriiight | 14:34 |
| RST38h | make it flash so that it reveals user's location to the thugs! | 14:34 |
| djszapi | javispedro: look, I have been told by hardware developers, that is one reason. | 14:35 |
| djszapi | javispedro: since, I am not a hardware developer, and they made it, I completely trust them. | 14:35 |
| * DocScrutinizer farts on pondering what the chan would look like to him without ignore list | 14:35 | |
| djszapi | javispedro: on the other hand, they confirmed my guesses that I made from teh beginning. | 14:35 |
| javispedro | djszapi, could we somehow ask for more public information on that? maybe they'd follow if we'd filled this bug in developer.nokia.com ? | 14:35 |
| RST38h | Which is "whatever developer does ot the device is going to be potentially dangerous"? | 14:36 |
| DocScrutinizer | RST38h: to the point, exactly and 100% | 14:36 |
| lizardo | generic question: has anyone seen a N9 selling (not pre-selling) anywhere already? Just curious how fast they actually are on shipping to the stores | 14:36 |
| djszapi | javispedro: you can always fill bugs. However, led control is probably not the most important task, but go for it. | 14:36 |
| khertan | RST38h: hum ... i understand now the reason of tizen : html5 only | 14:36 |
| javispedro | djszapi, I understand it's not important. But I thought it would be easy. | 14:36 |
| RST38h | oh, you can do a lot of damage with properly written javascript... | 14:37 |
| javispedro | djszapi, if something that externally looks as simple as led control will take such a lot of energy, | 14:37 |
| khertan | RST38h: they talk about html5 ... they could not provide js engine in the runtime | 14:37 |
| javispedro | then aiming for stuff like sys_admin .... | 14:37 |
| djszapi | javispedro: is it easy to redesign the hardware ? | 14:37 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: you got trapped, pal!! | 14:37 |
| javispedro | djszapi, I am yet to understand why is it a hardware problem. | 14:37 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: The hardware devlopers statement is not consistent with the released schematics. | 14:37 |
| RST38h | also not consistent with the sw architecture which has MCE in between | 14:38 |
| djszapi | javispedro: sorry, but I cannot spend more time with it that I could help. | 14:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | SpeedEvil: please, that's all made up (though I'm not able to read it as I couldn't stand it) | 14:38 |
| javispedro | MCE could also abstract whatever the "dangerous" part is and leave only LED control | 14:38 |
| javispedro | djszapi, ok. | 14:38 |
| SpeedEvil | djszapi: The indicator LED is connected through a diode, to an output only of the charger circuitry which indicates emergency charging. It's also connected to the LED controller chip. This is the only connections to the indicator LED. | 14:38 |
| RST38h | and the led controller chip is individually addressable | 14:39 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: which part of that you did not understand I am not a hardware developer ? :) | 14:39 |
| djszapi | (not that I ever want to) | 14:39 |
| RST38h | djszapi: Ok, then who are you and what makes you speak on Nokia's behalf here? | 14:39 |
| khertan | djszapi: and if a hardware developper ask you o jump ? | 14:39 |
| khertan | s/o/to | 14:40 |
| macmaN | lizardo: your question has been most interesting for a while :) | 14:40 |
| DocScrutinizer | I AM A HARDWARE DEVELOPER \o/ | 14:40 |
| djszapi | khertan: sorry, but I do not have time for unneccesary arguements, how is it related ? | 14:40 |
| djszapi | I cannot know everything, and I do not even want to. | 14:40 |
| javispedro | djszapi, well, no problem, that is just fine. | 14:40 |
| djszapi | khertan: you need to ask someone else, that is what I could help. | 14:40 |
| djszapi | for internal details. | 14:41 |
| djszapi | fwiw, they also mentioned what I said from the beginning on the top of the hardware issue | 14:41 |
| javispedro | djszapi, maybe you could forward our concerns to "them". | 14:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: are you finished with talking djszapi into tweaking policy to lock vibrator and flash LED and LCD content as well now? | 14:41 |
| lizardo | macmaN: but the silence may mean it has not shipped physically anywhere yet :) anyway, I expect to see people announcing everywhere whey they put their hands into a shiny new N9 | 14:42 |
| lizardo | when* | 14:42 |
| macmaN | lizardo: where r u | 14:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | lizardo: here the shops say week42 | 14:42 |
| macmaN | lizardo: im a bit south of finland | 14:42 |
| macmaN | aka estonia | 14:42 |
| lizardo | macmaN: Brazil :( will take a while to appear here I'm afraid (IIRC N900 appeared on regular stores more than a year after announcement) | 14:42 |
| macmaN | ouch! | 14:43 |
| djszapi | mce design is also by purpose like that. | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | lizardo: customs took that time to process the import | 14:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | :-) | 14:43 |
| djszapi | you are not allowed to control from that direction either. | 14:43 |
| javispedro | DocScrutinizer, I do not want to later be told that I did not try all possible ways. | 14:43 |
| djszapi | (design, not mentioning bugs, if any!) | 14:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | javispedro: it's evidently useless | 14:44 |
| javispedro | djszapi, this is all about trying to change things, hopefully for the better. | 14:44 |
| javispedro | be it design, implementation. | 14:44 |
| khertan | i vote for forbidding developper to use memory and filesytem, it could potentially fuck off the device | 14:44 |
| lizardo | DocScrutinizer: very possible :) brazillians are receiving their N950 just now! (fortunately I asked to send mine to a friend who was in Finland... arrived a few weeks ago) | 14:44 |
| macmaN | lizardo: customs didnt rape you for extra charges for that? | 14:45 |
| abinader | lizardo: and is going to be again next week :) hehe | 14:45 |
| lizardo | Looks like customs were trying to tax something that is explictly labeled "not for sale" on it :( | 14:45 |
| DocScrutinizer | khertan: using flash storage could - using mce to control indicator LED definitely can NOT | 14:45 |
| lizardo | macmaN: when you bring a single (or maybe two?) cellphone for personal use, that is not a problem | 14:46 |
| javispedro | lizardo, after that they usually try to tax you even more for their "inconvenience" | 14:46 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer: yeah this is why i reclaim restriction on flash storage ... harmattan isn't secure enough ! | 14:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | but I didn't see the turn in djszapi 's argumentation from "pisses off users (like me)" to "could harm the device" - luckily | 14:46 |
| khertan | because you see an argumentation ? | 14:47 |
| khertan | their is some blabla | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | not exactly, no | 14:47 |
| khertan | s/their/there | 14:47 |
| khertan | but none arguments | 14:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | i see a "I GUESS..." and that's about it | 14:48 |
| djszapi | sandst1: From the code, I could read out: When the dpkg-wrapper updates the restok.conf file, it does it by first storing a new version as restok.conf.new and then renaming it to restok.conf. The new copy is first signed by the "tcb" credential. This error sounds like the dpkg-wrapper doesn't get "tcb" which accli is supposed to inherit, so it is unable to sign the new version. | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | but of course we don't have the right to query guesses of such savvy inner-circle contributors | 14:49 |
| djszapi | sandst1: First check the error logs for anything aegis-related. You could also send the current /var/lib/restok.conf file or check that the dpkg-wrapper (/usr/bin/dpkg) has been assigned the "tcb" credential. The third thing to check is that the hash of /usr/bin/dpkg matches that in the refhash files. | 14:49 |
| DocScrutinizer | if they think there should be no app allowed to ask mce to activate PatternSMS then that's a commandment to us mere mortals | 14:50 |
| faenil | djszapi: I keep on wondering, why are you the only one who answers such questions? Why isn't there any Nokian in here? | 14:52 |
| RST38h | Maybe we should ask qgil who the djszapi guy is and what he is doing here | 14:52 |
| djszapi | faenil: it would indeed be easier if others could be there. One person can easily become antagonist. :) | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i was more pondering corporate security | 14:53 |
| djszapi | faenil: well, let us discuss it in private. | 14:53 |
| RST38h | Whether his statements can be interpreted as the official statements by Nokia | 14:53 |
| RST38h | Stskeeps: I do not know anyone in Nokia's corp security. Besides it constitutes a cruel/unusual punishment | 14:53 |
| macmaN | so... who is able to update to Foursquare 0.13.1 here? anybody? | 14:55 |
| macmaN | wondering if Store cdn is failing | 14:56 |
| SpeedEvil | macmaN: Started installation for the first time. | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | Oh - that's new | 14:58 |
| SpeedEvil | 'battery too low to complete installation' | 14:58 |
| macmaN | heh | 14:58 |
| macmaN | wdym though, you didnt have it installed at all before? | 14:59 |
| SpeedEvil | macmaN: It's now in some confused state that I'm not sure what it's doing | 15:00 |
| SpeedEvil | macmaN: Ah - installed | 15:00 |
| macmaN | im just getting download error, installation package not found | 15:01 |
| macmaN | wondering if i should uninstall, or if it has any effect | 15:03 |
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| SpeedEvil | Well - it worked for me | 15:05 |
| macmaN | i have already spent more money on harmattan apps in two weeks than i have on android and desktop combined in a few years | 15:05 |
| macmaN | meaning i bought gpodder and pinball fantasies | 15:05 |
| * SpeedEvil would have too. | 15:05 | |
| SpeedEvil | (angry birds) | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | But the purchase link is broken | 15:05 |
| SpeedEvil | Which - with actual devices hitting consumers hands... | 15:06 |
| macmaN | SpeedEvil: well you can.. for about 500€ :> | 15:06 |
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| macmaN | SpeedEvil: oh oh, uninstalling foursquare first fixed something. its now properly downloading it from the store. | 15:07 |
| macmaN | i wonder when 4sq will appear in Feeds | 15:08 |
| macmaN | haha! apparently with 0.13 it does! | 15:09 |
| macmaN | but apparently there are no controls for it in the settings panel | 15:10 |
| macmaN | yet | 15:10 |
| macmaN | unless it requires a reboot or something | 15:10 |
| sandst1 | djszapi: ok, thanks. i'll keep those in mind in case the phone goes to a craazy state again :P | 15:11 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: which led were they talking about btw ? Any of the three or some special one ? | 15:11 |
| djszapi | back can be by the camera | 15:14 |
| djszapi | could you control the front led on N900 ? | 15:14 |
| djszapi | someone keeps telling me, it is the same on n900. | 15:14 |
| khertan | (14:14:04) djszapi: could you control the front led on N900 ? < yes | 15:15 |
| djszapi | documentation ? | 15:15 |
| * artemma is sick with twitter polluting his notifications feed. Why nobody thought about limiting it to specific list(s)? | 15:15 | |
| macmaN | artemma: yes, totally agreed. list support is essential. | 15:16 |
| Kaadlajk | I would like to have upcoming calendar events in the feed | 15:16 |
| artemma | in fact I am thinking abt disabling twitter notifications completely | 15:16 |
| artemma | it's a pity there's no Gravity for harmattan. Surviving with TwimGo meanwhile | 15:17 |
| macmaN | Kaadlajk: could possibly be implemented with an external tool? | 15:18 |
| Kaadlajk | macmaN: probably yeah, you can access calendar events with mkcal and kcalcoren | 15:19 |
| Kaadlajk | havent looked how the feed works | 15:19 |
| djszapi | khertan: please provide a small snippet I can run on N900 for led blinking, if you can. | 15:19 |
| leinir | hmm... the twitter client needs to not scroll down automatically when you do a manual refresh... | 15:19 |
| macmaN | leinir: scroll up or down? im finding it mondo annoying when you open an item in the client and then feed loses your position when you come back to it. | 15:20 |
| macmaN | there needs to be a Clear All button too | 15:21 |
| macmaN | its impossible to keep track of read items otherwise | 15:21 |
| macmaN | unless you have like your grandmother in all your feeds only | 15:21 |
| leinir | macmaN: quick description - you're at the top, you pull down to cause a refresh, and the refresh now stays scrolled at the top, rather than focused on the current items | 15:21 |
| leinir | it's as though they looked at Plume and copied about half of that feature ;) | 15:21 |
| khertan | djszapi: http://pastebin.com/0djHWnfj | 15:21 |
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| SpeedEvil | djszapi: The notification LED on the front | 15:23 |
| djszapi | SpeedEvil: there are two leds on the front. | 15:23 |
| djszapi | both notify something, which one do you think of ? | 15:24 |
| djszapi | top or bottom ? | 15:24 |
| macmaN | i am noticing im using the shortcut bar about 0.5x/6mo time | 15:24 |
| SpeedEvil | There is only one notification LED I can see on the n9 schematic. | 15:24 |
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| djszapi | SpeedEvil: I am not checking the led, tell me which one on the device. | 15:25 |
| djszapi | not checking the schematic* | 15:25 |
| djszapi | you should probably check the board design, not the schematic for that... | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | I do not have a N9 to hand. | 15:26 |
| SpeedEvil | As far as I'm aware, there is only one LED on the front of the n950 | 15:26 |
| djszapi | I see 2. | 15:26 |
| djszapi | or maybe the top is not led, well I do not know, I am not a hardware guy. | 15:27 |
| faenil | djszapi: the led they're talking about is the one which blinks when you're charging the n950 | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | There are the LED, the camera, the touch sensor | 15:27 |
| djszapi | sorry, the bottom is the camerae | 15:27 |
| djszapi | front camera, that is not led | 15:27 |
| SpeedEvil | and the ambient light sensor, I'm unsure where that is | 15:27 |
| DocScrutinizer | pretty please can we just forget about that topic, it's sufficiently covered with javispedro including it to http://wiki.meego.com/User:Javispedro/Activities_blocked_by_the_N9_and_N950_security_policy - no need to help with tightening policy for N9 | 15:28 |
| djszapi | so you were talking about the top one then. | 15:28 |
| SpeedEvil | Or if it's integrated into the touch sensro | 15:28 |
| faenil | Doc, your attitude is irritating, please. | 15:28 |
| faenil | yes the top one, at least that's what I saw blinking in mohammadAg's video on youtube | 15:28 |
| DocScrutinizer | no, this channel is irritating, once you set the most unbearable posts to /ignore | 15:29 |
| faenil | okay once you set what you want to /ignore, you're good to go | 15:29 |
| DocScrutinizer | at least as long as others didn't | 15:29 |
| faenil | if you don't want to join the discussion, please just be polite, no need to keep saying the same things again and again. Djszapi is not here to make our life worse, on the contrary. | 15:30 |
| faenil | DocScrutinizer: nothing personal against you, ;) | 15:30 |
| DocScrutinizer | the problem is no matter what he's in for, he actually *does* make our lifes worse | 15:31 |
| faenil | DocScrutinizer: I'd like to see you alone against a bunch of angry people which do nothing but attack | 15:32 |
| macmaN | DocScrutinizer: maybe youve argued with djszapi more than i have managed to monitor, but i have not noticed that djszapi is the majority voter on these product security problems. has it been quantified to a meaningful point how much of a part djszapi specifically plays in the decision making puzzle? | 15:33 |
| djszapi | macmaN: I do not decide, just propose. | 15:33 |
| djszapi | I am a developer only. :) | 15:33 |
| DocScrutinizer | pfff, sorry but when I would claim such BS like "blinking LED (as of mce doing what it's designed for) can piss users (like me)" then probably I'd deserve a bunch of angry people attacking me | 15:34 |
| macmaN | djszapi: yep, but your proposal definitely influences decisions. for all intents and purposes it can be viewed as a single pie. | 15:34 |
| djszapi | macmaN: wrong. ;) Those are just my opinions. I actually even said I have no overview about the hardware issues or about the security policies. | 15:35 |
| djszapi | macmaN: I also claimed in the long thread here: http://forum.meego.com/showpost.php?p=32365&postcount=55 | 15:36 |
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| DocScrutinizer | macmaN: [2011-09-29 12:43:08] <djszapi> mmm, ovi policies are decided by OVI, and I guess they did not want to check manually whether a code abuses the led control or not and pissing the user off. [2011-09-29 12:44:43] <djszapi> it is not about headache, it is about something a user would not like (for instance me) | 15:36 |
| faenil | djszapi: this is what we're talking about | 15:37 |
| faenil | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTw-nQVMPng | 15:37 |
| djszapi | faenil: yeah, got it, thanks ;) | 15:37 |
| faenil | ok ;) | 15:37 |
| djszapi | I wish this would be the biggest problem ever... | 15:37 |
| macmaN | oh. ok. then it is even more unfortunate that DocScrutinizer's energy goes to waste. maybe it would be more useful to organize an anti aegis piquet next to nokiaoffice, with a separate message for an hour each day of the week. | 15:38 |
| DocScrutinizer | closing a virtual bug ticket "INVALID" on a "I guess" and "user wouldn't want (like me)" is mere paralyzing and not helping in any way | 15:38 |
| Stskeeps | macmaN: i'm so in | 15:38 |
| macmaN | Stskeeps: for the protest march? :> | 15:39 |
| djszapi | macmaN: actually, I got confirmation for my guesses in the beginnings, so they seem to be correct. That is one reason of their why they would not like to allow. | 15:39 |
| khertan | macmaN: or use energy to create a viable true Open Source Mobile OS ... without major corporate control like intel | 15:40 |
| djszapi | but yeah, about decisions to someone else :) | 15:40 |
| djszapi | where is this led problem to major issues out of security ... | 15:40 |
| macmaN | khertan: i doubt software is the problem today so muchh. its the hardware part thats almost an insurmountable barrier apparently, unless you get some billionaire on board who could take it as a sport challeneg for himself. | 15:41 |
| djszapi | macmaN: there are open hardware projects. | 15:41 |
| djszapi | open hardware communities, too. | 15:41 |
| macmaN | djszapi: if there was *anything* that was worth the time of reading about it, we probably wouldnt be sitting here sweating about the future of harmattan. | 15:42 |
| khertan | macmaN: maybe hardware is a problem too, but today, software is the problem | 15:43 |
| djszapi | macmaN: yes, there are, for instance there is this open gnu jtagice to blackfin dspS | 15:43 |
| macmaN | khertan: ok, url please to the hardware you would like to put your dream OS on | 15:43 |
| djszapi | but 2-3 years ago I was involved more in that area. | 15:43 |
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| vladest | hi | 15:45 |
| khertan | macmaN: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N900 | 15:45 |
| khertan | macmaN: drivers problem aren't hardware problem but software ... | 15:45 |
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| vladest | why any of qt apps on n950 takes hundreds of megz ? | 15:45 |
| vladest | according to top | 15:46 |
| macmaN | khertan: :) ok. i consider hardware and driver level stuff a single problem. | 15:46 |
| khertan | vladest: because it s writing with a sledgehammer | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | actually the point is those random nonsensical restrictions introduced by security policy (and possibly changing with every new firmware release, or even in between releases, on a random manner), that are not documented or explained or based on any sane rationale - they destroy the platform for commercial developers as they put a continuous risk on them that their app will cease to work on next change of policy, if it can get to work at | 15:46 |
| DocScrutinizer | all and not runs into any invisible roadblocker right away - consider MohammadAG's notification-LED app a good example for that. No commercial developer will want to take the risk to find out about some aegis rule breaks his app concept and renders it unfeasible, after manweeks of development went into that project | 15:46 |
| khertan | macmaN: this is why you see it as hardware problem and me as software | 15:46 |
| khertan | :) | 15:46 |
| flux | vladest, determining process size in linux is difficult. especially the vsize, which I imagine is the number you are looking for, can get very big. | 15:46 |
| macmaN | khertan: there is no meaning of one without another | 15:46 |
| khertan | macmaN: of course | 15:46 |
| macmaN | but since you only show me N900 now, that lacks CPU power and RAM, does that show that there is really no hardware options. | 15:47 |
| vladest | flux: right, i'm looking at VSZ column | 15:47 |
| flux | vladest, simply mapping 100 megabytes of libraries to process address space makes that number grow by 100 MB | 15:48 |
| flux | vladest, but the code itself is shared between all processes that use the same libraries | 15:48 |
| khertan | DocScrutinizer: an other example, install community git package ... post install script call bash, wish isn't available, so you want to modify it to sh ... there is no need to use bash for this simple script ... you can't ... aegis voodoo ... | 15:48 |
| khertan | macmaN: n950 ? | 15:48 |
| vladest | flux: so, its allocated but not comitted memory? | 15:49 |
| khertan | macmaN: ... and 600Mhz cpu and 256Mo of ram is enough for devel a viable end user os | 15:49 |
| kavacha | vladest it is shared | 15:49 |
| kavacha | between every process that uses the libraries | 15:49 |
| macmaN | khertan: true. but id consider n950 level power baselineish. its just too painful otherwise. | 15:49 |
| kavacha | well the ro sections | 15:49 |
| kavacha | of those libs | 15:49 |
| flux | vladest, it may not even be allocated. it's mapped. it may reside on the block device actually. | 15:49 |
| macmaN | n950 is of course a fine pick, except manufacturing it is not in community control. | 15:50 |
| khertan | macmaN: anyway, we can expect true open os to be available for different device | 15:50 |
| flux | vladest, it is only allocated and copied to memory partially when its functions are called | 15:50 |
| khertan | macmaN: indeed | 15:50 |
| vladest | ok, then why after some time I can see message "memory low, close some apps" but VSZ is the same? | 15:50 |
| vladest | how to check real commited memory size by process? | 15:51 |
| flux | maybe because your firmware might have less than perfect behavior regarding that message.. | 15:51 |
| vladest | flux: my fw same as all others: beta2 :) | 15:51 |
| flux | and?-) | 15:52 |
| faenil | I have beta1 :) | 15:52 |
| khertan | vladest: i ve same message. | 15:52 |
| khertan | vladest: did you use fennec ? | 15:52 |
| flux | vladest, indeed it's very difficult to answer that question. RSS is a bit closer to reality, though. | 15:52 |
| vladest | khertan installed but not runned | 15:53 |
| khertan | because it s tend to drain memory over the time | 15:53 |
| khertan | vladest: using exchange ? | 15:53 |
| vladest | khertan no | 15:53 |
| vladest | flux: RSS meant some column in top? | 15:53 |
| flux | vladest, yes. resident size. | 15:54 |
| flux | might be 'RES' as well | 15:54 |
| vladest | flux: how to turn it on? | 15:54 |
| flux | oh, didn't notice that it doesn't have that. well, you can maybe take a look /proc/pid/status | 15:55 |
| vladest | flux: found :) | 15:56 |
| khertan | which pid is guilty ? | 15:59 |
| vladest | any ui stuff takes > 100mb of VSZ | 16:03 |
| vladest | cant find how to turn RSS on harmattan's top | 16:03 |
| DocScrutinizer | use htop | 16:05 |
| vladest | DocScrutinizer where to get it? | 16:05 |
| vladest | also there is an sp-memusage package | 16:05 |
| DocScrutinizer | Installed: 0.8.3-2+0m6 | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Candidate: 0.9-3+svn20110526-1+0m6 | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | Version table: | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | 0.9-3+svn20110526-1+0m6 0 | 16:06 |
| DocScrutinizer | 500 https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ Packages | 16:06 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also: | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | mem-cpu-monitor memload mem-monitor-smaps mem.sh mem-smaps-totals | 16:10 |
| DocScrutinizer | mem-dirty-code-pages mem-monitor memory-game mem-smaps-private | 16:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | vladest: settings -> security -> developer mode -> then you switch that switch, reboot, then you get a lot of packages listed under that | 16:10 |
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| SpeedEvil | Which you can install one by one, installing htop | 16:11 |
| vladest | SpeedEvil: sure I did that | 16:11 |
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| vladest | aha | 16:12 |
| RST38h | back | 16:12 |
| vladest | stupid me :) | 16:12 |
| RST38h | Sooo, what has been happening while I was drinking corporate koolaid? | 16:12 |
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| DocScrutinizer | htop is under "utilities" at settings->security->developer_mode | 16:13 |
| vladest | DocScrutinizer yes, found. 10x | 16:14 |
| DocScrutinizer | however the category "Memory Analysis" probably has better tools for you :-) | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | like sp-memusage ;-D | 16:15 |
| DocScrutinizer | oh, thought you asked, but you stated it's there - nevermind | 16:16 |
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| RST38h | Meanwhile: Amazon has confirmed that its Kindle Fire 7in Android tablet can be rooted - and that it expects it will be soon enough. | 16:29 |
| gri | RST38h, does it have the e-ink display and colors? | 16:31 |
| khertan | gri: IPS-LCD backlit display | 16:35 |
| khertan | no e-ink | 16:35 |
| khertan | but omap 4 ! :) | 16:36 |
| faenil | bloody hell, thp is one of the winners!!! Congrats man!!! :D | 16:36 |
| faenil | http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/contest/intel-atom-developer-challenge-winners | 16:36 |
| gri | Wow, I know what I would do with the money :) -> new motorbike | 16:37 |
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| gri | "The Game Agency" win 25.000 and 20.000 ?! wow | 16:39 |
| SpeedEvil | Which is THPs app? | 16:40 |
| SpeedEvil | And congrats | 16:40 |
| gri | Mong is mentioned as winning app | 16:40 |
| faenil | http://thp.io/2011/mong/ | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | I *love* that box: | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | 100%[=================================================================================>] 1,287,828,028 5.37M/s in 2m 22s | 16:41 |
| DocScrutinizer | 2011-09-29 15:40:33 (8.62 MB/s) - `Qt_SDK_Lin32_offline_v1_1_3_en.run' saved [1287828028/1287828028] | 16:41 |
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| gri | DocScrutinizer: That's why your hdd is full? | 16:42 |
| faenil | there are some people who won 2 or even 3 prizes...1) they're godlike programmers, 2) there were few people partecipating.. | 16:42 |
| DocScrutinizer | not on that box out there | 16:42 |
| gri | faenil, They all receive prizes and I am not even finished with my damn app gonna hate it now :P | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | gri: I'd not want to open a remote X session to that box though | 16:43 |
| faenil | gri: XD | 16:43 |
| DocScrutinizer | (even as it has no X installed at all) | 16:43 |
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| gri | DocScrutinizer: Why are you downloading the sdk to that box then? | 16:44 |
| faenil | lesson starting in 15 mins...cya later guys | 16:44 |
| DocScrutinizer | for the time when Nokia once again decides to silently revoke or change publicly available files | 16:44 |
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| gri | like the beta1 image? :D | 16:45 |
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| DocScrutinizer | also server outages at Nokia infra aren't unknown - so if ever I decided to get that SDK on a weekend (the usual downtime for all Nokia servers) I can pull it at max speed from my own box | 16:47 |
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| DocScrutinizer | rather than waiting for somebody inside to fix things at monday morning | 16:48 |
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| macmaN | there doesnt seem to be an ancien pond app for n950 | 17:19 |
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| gri | macmaN, ancien? | 17:52 |
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| khertan | does someone have port pygame to harmattan ? | 17:55 |
| khertan | thp: did you try to port pygame to harmattan ? :) | 17:55 |
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| macmaN | gri: ancient. the first entry in the appup winner page. | 17:57 |
| gri | macmaN, Ah, already forgot that :P | 18:00 |
| djszapi | sivang o/ | 18:00 |
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| sivang | djszapi: hey | 18:02 |
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| macmaN | khertan: hah, just what doctor ordered http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/460654/7e3691cdcb3307c8/ | 18:28 |
| macmaN | khertan: re our previous open device platform options discussion | 18:28 |
| Sazpaimon | someone just gave me a sheevaplug | 18:29 |
| Sazpaimon | what can I do with it | 18:29 |
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| Venemo | ey | 18:30 |
| Venemo | anyone knows what's an NFC "tag"? | 18:30 |
| macmaN | Sazpaimon: nice! congrats! install gentoo | 18:31 |
| leinir | Venemo: They're very tiny, unpowered RFID chips with extremely little memory for data storage (between 96 and 512 bytes) that's used for transferring e.g. URLs to a device with an active NFC chip :) | 18:33 |
| leinir | (there's other types, but that's the basic one... type 3 will hold up to a meg of data, for example) | 18:34 |
| Sazpaimon | install gentoo | 18:36 |
| Sazpaimon | why do I want to install gentoo on a 1.2ghz arm machine | 18:36 |
| Sazpaimon | I love gentoo, but arm isnt really made for fast compilation | 18:36 |
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| macmaN | Sazpaimon: well you x-compile on your quadcore of course :> | 18:37 |
| Sazpaimon | now we're getting silly | 18:38 |
| macmaN | and get to enjoy all the awesomely smoothly cross compiling packages | 18:38 |
| macmaN | such as perl, ython and other friends | 18:38 |
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| Sazpaimon | plus the portage tree alone is 500MB | 18:38 |
| Sazpaimon | sheevaplug only has a 512MB NAND | 18:39 |
| Sazpaimon | and if I need to install something i need to have a cross-compiling server running at all times | 18:40 |
| macmaN | Sazpaimon: you can mount portage over network, or actually my preferred approach is to distribute portage on squashfs | 18:40 |
| Sazpaimon | kinda defeats the purpose | 18:40 |
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| macmaN | squashed portage is 50MB | 18:41 |
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| lardman | hmm, what's happened to the terminal? | 18:43 |
| * lardman tries to remember whether he had to enable something last time he flashed | 18:43 | |
| macmaN | lardman: install from settings | 18:43 |
| lardman | thanks | 18:44 |
| macmaN | devmode is now explicitly enabled | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lotta scrollback | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anything interesting? | 18:44 |
| macmaN | yes. thp won 25K. | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, saw that on twitter (congrats, thp, timsamoff and conny!) | 18:44 |
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| SpeedEvil | What was thps app? | 18:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | The pong clone | 18:45 |
| SpeedEvil | ah | 18:45 |
| lardman | hmm, installation interrupted messages, are these normal? | 18:46 |
| * lardman reboots | 18:47 | |
| macmaN | no, not normal | 18:48 |
| * lardman tries again | 18:49 | |
| Venemo | leinir, thx for the answer | 18:49 |
| leinir | Venemo: no problem :) | 18:49 |
| lardman | hmm, not interested - 488kb left to download and not interested in continuing | 18:49 |
| Venemo | leinir, and what's the purpose of such a small chip? | 18:50 |
| * lardman tries from the update page | 18:51 | |
| leinir | Venemo: storing URLs and the like - vcards as well :) | 18:52 |
| Venemo | leinir, ah. so not an extemely useful piece of technology. | 18:52 |
| leinir | Well, the larger tags have more storage space - enough to store an app or somesuch | 18:53 |
| Venemo | still not extremely useful | 18:54 |
| Venemo | a pendrive + USB host sounds better. yes, arguably we have a lot less usb host devices than nfc devices. | 18:55 |
| lardman | hmm, I'm stuck, can't manually update the sdk-connectivity-tool and trying to enable developer mode fails with 216kb to download now | 18:55 |
| lardman | is the terminal app in the harmattan repo? | 18:57 |
| lardman | not that that will really do much good if I can't install it somehow | 18:58 |
| leinir | Venemo: that takes a /lot/ more effort than people are generally willing to put into getting something for free, though - you are underestimating the laziness of the general consumer ;) | 18:58 |
| npm | please don't tell me the 3500 nokia employees laid off today were working on harmattan/meego/qt... http://shoutbloger.blogspot.com/2011/09/nokia-will-layoff-3500-employees-in.html | 19:00 |
| Venemo | leinir, yeah. | 19:00 |
| npm | had enough bad news for one week | 19:00 |
| Venemo | there were never 3500 people on MeeGo, nor Harmattan, nor Qt, nor on all of them together. IMO. | 19:00 |
| DocScrutinizer | npm: just book it on same account | 19:00 |
| berndhs | of the 3500, 2200 are the manufacturing plant in Cluj/Romania | 19:01 |
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| DocScrutinizer | probably manufacturing N9 ;-P | 19:01 |
| Venemo | DocScrutinizer, HAHAHAHA | 19:02 |
| leinir | Venemo: what does your opinion have to do with it? ;) If you must abbreviate something there, TMK is what you're trying to say ;) | 19:03 |
| Venemo | ~TMK | 19:03 |
| infobot | i guess tmk is To My Knowledge | 19:03 |
| Venemo | leinir, you are correct :) | 19:03 |
| berndhs | sure that would make sense. Nokia builds a plant, starts production in 2008, makes 92000 N9s and closes the plant :) | 19:03 |
| * leinir thinks IMO is used too many places where it has nothing to do with that person's opinions and all to do with their knowledge or guesses ;) | 19:03 | |
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| sivang | GeneralAntilles: what did they win it for? :) | 19:06 |
| Venemo | leinir, in fact, I have no actual knowledge of the number of people involved. but I don't think there were more than a few hundred involved in MeeGo. | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plonk | 19:06 |
| Venemo | hmmm... maybe Nokia fired all those people to be able to pay the 25 thousand USD for the winners? :P | 19:06 |
| leinir | Venemo: Hehe, in that case it'll be "i suspect" or "i guess" or something like that :) | 19:07 |
| lardman | If anyone has any ideas about how to recover from a failed enabling of dev mode I'd be glad to hear them before I reflash | 19:07 |
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| Venemo | leinir, OK! | 19:08 |
| leinir | http://outsideinkorea.com/images/content/,P5Bsa,P5D,P20Inglesh.gif.pagespeed.ce.yz8AS1xidX.gif <-- taht ;) | 19:08 |
| sivang | GeneralAntilles: was it for a development challenge ? | 19:08 |
| Venemo | leinir, sorry, English is not my native language. | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | sivang, yes | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or whichever | 19:08 |
| leinir | Venemo: Nah, me neither - i know how frustrating it can be when you find yourself using it wrong, so i like to help :) | 19:08 |
| sivang | GeneralAntilles: oh nice, how many downloads? | 19:08 |
| Venemo | leinir, thx | 19:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://appdeveloper.intel.com/en-us/contest/intel-atom-developer-challenge-winners | 19:08 |
| DocScrutinizer | GeneralAntilles: plonk? | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Pong clone | 19:11 |
| DocScrutinizer | ooh :-D | 19:11 |
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| sivang | pong clone :) | 19:14 |
| sivang | nice | 19:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, metatypedeclarations.h not found | 19:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles prods QtSDK | 19:30 | |
| deimos | today after updating QtSDK, my app on desktop starts in portrait mode and orientationlock doesn't works. How to start it in landscape ? | 19:31 |
| sivang | anybody here might have an idea to a good web framework to handle social gps data? | 19:32 |
| sivang | (e,g. location give my handset clients) | 19:32 |
| * sivang looks at GeoDjango | 19:32 | |
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| lardman | does anyone know whether a reset will remove packages that aren't part of the default install, or if it's a case of just reflashing? | 19:43 |
| djszapiN9 | reflash or delete | 19:44 |
| lardman | no term, so can't delete afaict | 19:44 |
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| RST38h | moo, lardman, fiferboy, cepiperez | 19:46 |
| ieatlint | install terminal then | 19:46 |
| lardman | ieatlint: how can I do that? | 19:46 |
| fiferboy | moo RST38h | 19:46 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 19:46 |
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| *** ChanServ sets mode: +v _MeeGoBot_ | 19:47 | |
| * RST38h has got all of his Harmattan apps published on Ovi today | 19:48 | |
| lardman | congrats :) | 19:49 |
| * lardman downloads the flasher and goes to get a glass of wine while he waits | 19:49 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody got a .deb of javispedro's sowatch hanging around? | 19:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Build is failing here. | 19:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or any tips for this? http://pastebin.com/PYe37QSb | 19:53 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles, I got my changes into fbreader | 19:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sweet! | 19:54 |
| RST38h | looks like your MADDE misses a component | 19:54 |
| RST38h | try Platorm SDK instead? =) | 19:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't have it handy | 19:55 |
| CepiPerez | hello | 19:56 |
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| sivang | If anybody has done a location based app here before, I would guess that the backend just holds the co-ordinates and the handset client visualizes them on a map right? | 20:00 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: Killer US cantaloupes expected to infect more people | 20:00 |
| sivang | so I just need a db with support for storing this kind of data | 20:00 |
| sivang | mee RST38h | 20:00 |
| sivang | :) | 20:00 |
| sivang | for searching if some stuff are near by, I need support to ask that from the db, so I need spatial extension like spatialite right? | 20:01 |
| RST38h | BTW, anyone knows if the SPARQL access component is included with the 2nd Harmattan update? | 20:01 |
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| djszapiN9 | lardman delete over ssh ? | 20:08 |
| lardman | djszapiN9: can't install sshd | 20:09 |
| lardman | it fails installing the dev tool stuff | 20:09 |
| sivang | RST38h: sparql is for searching over the whole device index right? | 20:09 |
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| RST38h | Ok, a question | 20:42 |
| RST38h | apt-get upgrade tells me that the following packages have been kept back: | 20:42 |
| RST38h | duicontrolpanel-privatemodeapplet libarchive1 libcairo2 libgcrypt11 libgpg-error0 libnotificationsystem0 libpixman-1-0 libtiff4 libxml2 system-ui systemui-l10n-engineering-english | 20:43 |
| RST38h | Should I dist-upgrade? | 20:43 |
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| * Arkenoi wonders if harmattan will *ever* reach functionality of fremantle. | 20:49 | |
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| lardman | hmm, reflashed, restored backup (not apps though) then tried to start/install dev mode, only to find that it's failed again (on developer-mode package) with an error of "Installation interrupted" | 20:59 |
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| lardman | has anyone else tried recently to enable dev mode on the beta2 image? | 21:00 |
| fiferboy | lardman, is your battery charged? | 21:01 |
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| fiferboy | i have had installs fail saying not enough battery | 21:01 |
| lardman | yeah was 76% when I reflashed | 21:02 |
| * lardman wonders where the sdk-connectivity-tool package should live | 21:02 | |
| lardman | not here presumably? http://harmattan-dev.nokia.com/pool/harmattan-beta/free/s/sdk-connectivity-tool/ | 21:02 |
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| lardman | would someone with a terminal mind seeing if that package is get-able please? | 21:05 |
| thp | lardman: as in apt-get --download? | 21:05 |
| lardman | or apt-get install should try to re-download and reinstall | 21:06 |
| lardman | afaiu | 21:06 |
| RST38h | thp: congrats on winning intel's money =) | 21:06 |
| fiferboy | it says it is already installed for me | 21:06 |
| thp | RST38h: thx :) | 21:06 |
| thp | apt-get install sdk-connectivity-tool --reinstall --downl | 21:06 |
| lardman | looks like the version is different between the one listed on that page and the one that the developer-tools package depends on mind you, so who knows | 21:07 |
| thp | s/--downl/--download-only/ | 21:07 |
| infobot | thp meant: apt-get install sdk-connectivity-tool --reinstall --download-only | 21:07 |
| thp | lardman: Get:1 https://downloads.maemo.nokia.com ./ sdk-connectivity-tool 0.4.8+0m6 [71.3kB] | 21:07 |
| lardman | ok, so the link should work | 21:07 |
| lardman | thanks thp | 21:07 |
| thp | lardman: the repos are in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/aegis.ssu-keyring-dadd.list on the beta2 image | 21:08 |
| lardman | thp: I don't have a terminal though, which is what is causing the issues :) | 21:09 |
| * lardman wonders about submitting a package to Ovi that will install the terminal in its postinst script | 21:09 | |
| lardman | not sure that would make it though mind you ;) | 21:10 |
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| thp | the classic hen and egg problem | 21:10 |
| lardman | I'll see if anyone has submitted any sort of comms tools to Ovi | 21:10 |
| * lardman heads to grab some supper and consider the problem | 21:10 | |
| thp | lardman: i haven't read the scrollback, but aren't you able to install these by simply enabling dev mode? | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | Anyone ever used SPARQL QML component? Anyone??? | 21:24 |
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| crevetor | I think I did | 21:27 |
| crevetor | What are you referring to exactly ? | 21:28 |
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| * Arkenoi decided to give n900 a second try: reflash, carefully apply performance tweaks and replacement libraries, maybe bfs kernel and see if it became any better since i moved to n950 | 21:38 | |
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| lardman | thp: The problem is that I can't enable dev mode | 21:52 |
| lardman | I've just searched the Ovi store, and there's nothing I could see of use in there | 21:52 |
| lardman | I guess I can try another reflash and not bother restoring my settings, on the off chance that has made some difference | 21:53 |
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| * lardman tries Settings > Reset > Clear device | 21:55 | |
| lardman | no idea what it does mind you as the little (i) next to it doesn't produce any sort of message | 21:56 |
| lardman | or perhaps that just indicates that you'll get an explanation on the next page? In which case I've no idea why it's clickable | 21:56 |
| lardman | hmm, I now have a counter-clockwise arrow indicating that I should do something roational | 22:00 |
| lardman | no idea what mind you, nor does twirling the phone round do anything | 22:00 |
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| lardman | 8 sec power button hold and cross fingers | 22:01 |
| lardman | hmm, it's back | 22:01 |
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| lardman | no idea, time for another reflash it would seem | 22:02 |
| thp | lardman: try reflashing, enabling dev mode (+make sure you have terminal, ssh, etc..) and only after that restore your settings | 22:02 |
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| lardman | thp: yeah I'll try that this time through | 22:02 |
| lardman | seems to be some issues with the dev mode enabling mind you, as it shouldn't really fail like that imho | 22:03 |
| lardman | likewise for the device wipe, which just results in you needing to do a reflash anyway | 22:03 |
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| * lardman heads to watch some TV while the device is erased and reflashed | 22:03 | |
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| thp | if there's nothing on tv, try this while reflashing.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNf9rEPoc8Q | 22:05 |
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| lardman | thp: ah if only I'd seen it in time, far better than Country House Rescue | 22:29 |
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| lardman | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMogMOjIH8M&feature=fvst is always entertaining as a video too | 22:30 |
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| lardman | ok, so I've reflashed and yet I still have this funny arrow in the centre of the scteen | 22:30 |
| lardman | screen | 22:30 |
| hiemanshu | its probably the actual screen then | 22:31 |
| lardman | nah it's sw generated | 22:31 |
| lardman | let me take a photo | 22:31 |
| * lardman boots trusty N900 | 22:31 | |
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| lardman | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/20110929_001.jpg | 22:36 |
| lardman | any thoughts appreciated | 22:36 |
| crevetor | if you turn your device really fast it will go away | 22:37 |
| lardman | lol | 22:37 |
| ieatlint | i've seen that arrow | 22:37 |
| crevetor | me too I think | 22:37 |
| lardman | well I did try turning it, wondering if the compass/accelerometer wanted to be recalibrated, but no | 22:37 |
| ieatlint | did a factory reset on an n9, and it showed that error while it did it | 22:37 |
| lardman | mine's occurred since doing a reset on the device | 22:38 |
| hiemanshu | lardman: omg fingerprint | 22:38 |
| lardman | so I should leave it for longer you reckon? | 22:38 |
| hiemanshu | dude, clean the damn thing | 22:38 |
| lardman | This happens after it reboots | 22:38 |
| crevetor | lardman: the fingerprints ? | 22:38 |
| lardman | hiemanshu: yeah I was going to say something about not commenting on the fingerprints! | 22:38 |
| hiemanshu | lardman: it only takes a few minutes to clean it up every morning | 22:39 |
| hiemanshu | or more than a few seconds every hour | 22:39 |
| lardman | hiemanshu: I forgot the cleaning while I've been cursing it all day for not wanting to give me a terminal so I can install some sw I've just compiled | 22:40 |
| lardman | sorry ;) | 22:40 |
| hiemanshu | haha | 22:40 |
| lardman | bbiam, baby crying, should go help! | 22:40 |
| ieatlint | i can get at least a partial match of a finger print from that photo | 22:40 |
| hiemanshu | I cant see such a nice device so dirty | 22:40 |
| hiemanshu | that arrow could be a signal | 22:41 |
| hiemanshu | turn around, and do something else | 22:41 |
| hiemanshu | before meego screws up again? :P | 22:41 |
| crevetor | ieatlint: CSI ! | 22:41 |
| crevetor | lardman: also stop eating bacon while hacking your N950 ;) | 22:42 |
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| ieatlint | mmm, bacon | 22:44 |
| hiemanshu | mmm, babies | 22:45 |
| crevetor | Lol | 22:46 |
| hiemanshu | best served with a side of bacon :) | 22:46 |
| ieatlint | careful now, michael jackson got into a lot of trouble for that attitude | 22:46 |
| hiemanshu | ieatlint: but he was famous, and I am not | 22:47 |
| hiemanshu | so meh | 22:47 |
| hiemanshu | no one will catch me | 22:47 |
| ieatlint | they didn't successfully catch him either ;) | 22:48 |
| hiemanshu | but they wont even try in my case :P | 22:48 |
| lardman | hmm, it was probably the bacon it's true | 22:51 |
| lardman | I don't think the photo does it justice, it's not dirty or greasy to look at, just the wonders of the N900 flash and the low light in my study | 22:52 |
| lardman | anyway it still shows the arrow on the screen after ~12min | 22:53 |
| lardman | so I guess it's not going to go away | 22:53 |
| lardman | oh, I may be wrong | 22:54 |
| lardman | I took out the sim to stick in my N900 so I could still receive calls | 22:54 |
| lardman | just came back up to see the arrow still there, so tried a reboot, and lo and behold it's booted | 22:54 |
| lardman | and more interestingly it didn't ask for the passcode | 22:54 |
| lardman | afaiu that is a phone code, not a sim pin as it's 5 numbers | 22:55 |
| lardman | if so, minor security flaw there | 22:55 |
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| sandst1 | http://sandst1.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/mymoves-0-1-0-all-in-one-package/ | 23:04 |
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| lardman | whey, back in business, enable dev mode before breathing after the reset, and to top it all off the device lock code has vanished | 23:07 |
| lardman | hmm, internal memory is now ro though | 23:09 |
| lardman | I'm confused, the mass storage device is vfat, but has a .backups dir on it and I thought *fat filenames couldn't start with a . ? | 23:10 |
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| lardman | oh dear, input/output errors | 23:12 |
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| mzanetti | is there somewhere a wiki with tips&tricks and cool stuff for the N950? | 23:26 |
| hiemanshu | mzanetti: check /topic | 23:34 |
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| hiemanshu | the N950 landing page has links | 23:34 |
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| mzanetti | hiemanshu: :) | 23:36 |
| khertan_ | lardman: you are true fat16 didn't accept filename starting with a point, but it's not a problem for fat32 | 23:37 |
| khertan_ | :) | 23:37 |
| khertan_ | nor vfat | 23:37 |
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| DocScrutinizer | that's 8.3 vs this new scheme | 23:47 |
| DocScrutinizer | not related to fat12/16/32 afaik | 23:48 |
| DocScrutinizer | except for defaults to either have or not the support for this "new scheme" (forgot the name) | 23:48 |
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| DocScrutinizer | you know that all files still are actually 8.3 named and the long names are just a "trick" | 23:50 |
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| DocScrutinizer | on all fat fs | 23:51 |
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