IRC log of #harmattan for Thursday, 2011-09-22

lardmanalterego: I thought so, but couldn't be bothered to install it00:01
RST38hhey lardman, alterego00:01
* lardman crosses fingers that little Ella is now asleep00:01
lardmanhey RST38h00:01
lardmanhmm, REM have split00:02
alteregoYeah, shame00:03
alteregoWell not really.00:03
lardmanfirst time I've seen the news in days00:03
alteregoThey've been around so long00:03
alteregoProbably good for them.00:04
lardmanhave been teaching a course, and trying to prepare for the next day every evening with the <1month old has been tiring00:04
alteregoGet to live their lives.00:04
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RST38hlardman: ah, wait until she grows up to 10+months...00:04
lardmanalterego: tbh I've not heard anything from them in like 10 years anyway, so I guess it makes little difference, other than for the tour crowd00:05
lardmanRST38h: :)00:05
RST38hat least now she is not crawling or walking or tumbling anywhere00:05
lardmanRST38h: is all good, just that she was 2 weeks late, so have had to head back to doing work things earlier than I had hoped00:05
RST38halso, their screaming capacity increases with age =)00:05
lardmanoh dear!00:06
alteregoIt's sort of weird, I'm using my N950 as a wireless router right now ..00:07
alteregoN900, netbook, exo and laptop all connected through the N95000:08
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lardmanouch your data plan must be suffering!00:08
alteregounlimited :)00:08
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RST38h+ that N950 can probably be used for heating too00:08
MohammadAGmine too00:09
lardmanwell it is autumn so fair enough00:09
lardmansorry I should translate that to "fall" ;)00:09
alteregoAnd it's pre pay so I pay 10 a month for top up.00:09
alteregoThen Ig et unlimited sms and internet.00:09
alteregoAnd 250 minutes.00:09
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alteregoAnyway, it's quite reasonible, I'm scp'ing a meego ce image I downloaded in bed on my N900 to my laptop.00:11
alteregoThrough the N950 o_O00:11
lardmanhmm, I had 6 weeks' of 2G only, am very glad to have broadband back00:11
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SpeedEvilYour landline finally got fixed?00:12
lardmanyeah, they took their time00:13
lardmanhad a couple of weeks of coding time, then baby arrived which has cut free time somewhat00:13
SpeedEvilThey tend to do that.00:13
lardmannot a bad thing of course00:13
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RST38hwell, you are not breastfeeding, I hope...00:14
lardmanno this is true, but I had to go to a conference last week, then presenting a course this week, and prep has been patchy what with the inability to string together more than an hour or two00:14
lardmanthey don't take up much time in total, it's just that the time they do take up is spread far too evenly across the day (and night)00:15
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* lardman reads up on what FCam does re HDR as it would be a cool demo00:17
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rlinfatithe beta2 after a reboot is using 662mb of ram..... is normal ??00:30
rlinfati( prestart all? )00:30
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alteregoI have to say the new terminaal actually makes me like the N95000:44
alteregoJust need copy & paste00:44
alteregoAnd to come up with a fix for the signal strength00:44
javispedroyeah, the terminal is great!00:46
javispedrore copy&paste, maybe we need to implement this at the QGraphicsView level... many applications sadly laking it :(00:46
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* artemma switched to ssh from desktop a while ago, because terminal wasn't super great. Will give new one a try00:46
alteregoYeah, might look at it myself00:47
alteregoII think my signal issue is related to the screws00:48
alteregoWhen I touch the bottom two my signal drops00:48
javispedroheh, mine increases =)00:48
alteregoDamn you00:49
alteregoI think I might do a tes0t with a couple of bits of duck tape.00:49
alteregoAnyway, bedtime for me g'night00:51
javispedrognite alterego00:51
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SpeedEvilFeedzilla needs killed.04:13
SpeedEvilI clicked on ovi store.04:13
SpeedEvilAnd found a lot of spam, so clicked on the author.04:13
SpeedEvilI lost count.04:13
SpeedEvilSo I can't say if it's over 150, or over 250 _pages_ of shit 'apps'.04:14
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Milhousehmm... just had pulseaudio go nuts taking 100% CPU for no obvious reason. A tad worrying, had to kill it.05:01
SpeedEvilI'm usure why my screen is now staying o05:05
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RST38hmoo all08:17
frals \o/08:30
w00tfrals: did you see my note that they're launching it here? \o/08:32
fralsw00t: didnt see it, but i had a feeling they would ;)08:32
* w00t is going to buy 3008:33
fralsw00t: ill catch you when i get to the office08:33
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jykaeanyone got landscape enabled for menu screen with new FW in n950?08:51
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rzrRST38h: rm readline is done09:03
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ieatlintanyone around who can give advice on loadinga ListView with a model from a c++ backend?09:10
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rzrany twitter  user can try to dm rzrfreefr09:12
rzrsorry for breaking readline ask for dj he is the housekeeper of repo09:17
sandst1ieatlint: yup09:20
sandst1ieatlint: all you need is Chris's awesome blogpost :)
ieatlintyeah, i've done that, my question is actually how i can approach it from a different way09:23
ieatlint is an example of what i mean09:23
sandst1ieatlint: ok, let's check09:23
ieatlinthow can the mythical App class send a model to the QML viewer?09:23
ieatlinti had hoped by creating a slot that returned QAbstractItemModel* and calling it like app.getModel(), assigning its value to a ListView model, but it always returns undefined (despite it definitely returning a valid pointer)09:24
sandst1ieatlint: Q_PROPERTY macro has the NOTIFY parameter that allows you to expose a ignal into QML side09:25
ieatlintwill sending it via a signal make the difference instead of calling it via a slot?09:26
sandst1ieatlint: good question, i don't know.. would need to try to see what happens :)09:29
ieatlinthaha, ok, i'll give it a go and hope for the best09:29
sandst1ieatlint: do you have a code snippet of the approach you've already tried..? would be interested to see09:30
ieatlintalready spent over an hour trying to get it to work... it's definitely making an object, but no matter what, the listview model is set to "undefined"09:30
ieatlintyeah, i can strip out the parts i can't show right now09:30
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ieatlintthe console log messages are shown, and qDebug messages in various places (including the model) show that it is created, but things like rowCount() and data() are never executed09:42
w00twhy don't you just register a type for MainModel like you are for LateController? failing that, if you really must have it returned, try changing the return type to QObject - also, you can mark it Q_INVOKABLE instead of making it a slot, but that shouldn't make any difference09:44
ieatlintbecause LateController needs to influence what is put into MainModel09:45
ieatlinti'll try the QObject suggestion though09:45
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sandst1ieatlint: also, it might be worth a shot of putting the mainModel as a member to the LateController, create the instance in the constructor etc, and expose the main model with Q_PROPERTY instead of getMainModel09:48
ieatlintthanks, i'll return to my frustrated attempts in a bit :)09:51
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mtdany tips before I reflash my n950 to the latest firmware?10:08
* mtd has done backups10:08
mtdieatlint: thanks!10:09
ieatlintread before update, regular backups aren't enough10:09
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* mtd wonders why SMS history will be lost - though it was in the tracker db10:28
Milhouse@mtd: Notes were also not part of the backup10:29
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mtdMilhouse: interesting, thanks10:36
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djszapikimju: wow, I have just heard was hacked...11:09
djszapilinus is hosting linux on github now :)11:09
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mecedjszapi, again?11:13
RST38hShould have switched to OpenBSD...11:14
meceIsn't it FreeBSD?11:14
meceno.. hmm what's the difference?11:15
RST38hOpenBSD is more paranoid11:16
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meceyeah I read the cliff notes ;)11:16
mecethe tinfoil hat distro11:17
RST38hmore or less11:17
RST38hwith a charming guy at the head11:17
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kimjudjszapi, again? has it been online since the last break-in three weeks ago?11:45
djszapikimju: it is the same story. I have not just read that yet. I had a lot to do recently with other things. :)11:46
gridjszapi: You know if it is purpose that develsh comes from "" instead of ""?11:51
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faenilmorning guyys :)12:04
djszapihi faenil, when do you plan to arrive to Munich ? I am about to book the flights12:05
faenilhey that's a good question :)12:05
faenilI'm still deciding whether to arrive on 23 morning or 24 morning (both 6am)12:06
faenilarriving on 23rd would be ok for sightseeing, but I'd be alone12:06
djszapisame with me, sightseeing would be better with someone :)12:06
faenilgood :) then if that's ok to you, I'll book the train for 23rd morning :)12:08
MohammadAGaegisfs using half my cpu time12:08
djszapiI need to construct the stand of our company on Sunday at some point, if it is my duty.12:08
MohammadAGshall i kill it?12:08
faenilno problem for me, if that's what u're asking :)12:09
faenilunless that also requires NDA XD12:09
faenilMohammadAG: worth a try? :P12:10
MohammadAGdon't wanna malf it12:10
faenilMohammadAG: I don't think it would cause troubles...but your call ;)12:10
faenilMohammadAG: I'm no aegis expert, so don't trust me too much :) just my opinion ;)12:11
MohammadAGkilling aegisfs wouldn't cause troubles?12:11
faenilMohammadAG: what I mean is I don't think you'll brick the phone, it will reboot or smthg like that maybe :)12:11
djszapifaenil: 139 EUR / Sunday night for the hotel, but I think it is okay, if the company pays :)12:12
djszapibut it is wow, this is the discounted price xD12:12
faenildjszapi: damn u :P12:13
faenildjszapi: I'll be back in my 11€/night hostel... :P12:13
faenil(which is wow too :D )12:13
jreznikour FUDCon discounted price is 85 euros in Milano, quite expensive :) /me remembers Desktop Summit and hostel for 16.5 with S-Bahn behind the windows :)12:19
djszapijreznik: which hostel in Berlin ?12:19
jreznikdjszapi: MEININGER Hotel Berlin Hallesches Ufer12:20
djszapiahh, I was staying at the city hostel.12:21
jreznikyou know - drunk people, s-bahn but still it wasn't as bad and for that price :)12:21
faenilthe one I'm going to is 11€ and it's rated 85% on websites XD Hope there's no scam there XD12:22
Stskeepsfaenil: just rats12:22
faenilthat was part of the score :P12:23
faenilcouldn't have reached that high with rats :)12:23
djszapijreznik: yes, DS was fun altogether :)12:23
jreznikdjszapi: yep, 6 people from our office, so it was a big party :) and many other red hatters from us but they don't talk to us :D12:27
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djszapigri: develsh is actually not available in the public SDK, so probably that package is simply screwed up. Will report it to the SDK TPO dudes.12:28
djszapito avoid the confusion, not available as in binary..12:29
gridjszapi: What do we have if that's not the public sdk?12:29
djszapigri: eh ?12:30
djszapi -> How can I download the binary to install it on my N9 ?12:30
djszapifor helping you ?12:30
grideveloper mode on the phone installs develsh and uses it as login shell for the developer user12:30
djszapithat is quite useless to me since I do not have N950 (not that I would like to have).12:31
griso they made one bastard-sdk and one for the people they like (n9)?12:32
sandst1djszapi: didn't you get one in the community dev program?12:32
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djszapisandst1: I got, but it is normally not with me.12:32
djszapigri: not sure what you mean12:32
gridjszapi: The developer mode on the n9 and n950 seems to be different then12:33
djszapigri: well they are using different repositories, packages obviously since one is internal device and the other is not.12:33
djszapione they fix the binary availability in that repository, I can help more..12:35
grithey removed the old packages12:36
gridevelsh_1.13+0m6 was signed from "", 1.14+0m6 comes from ""12:36
griE: Version '1.13+0m6' for 'develsh' was not found12:36
djszapithat is why I said, it is screwed up, but I cannot be a much of help without physically having that package.12:37
griIt seems nobody got the old package12:37
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griA friend of mine has it installed but can't download the package again12:38
gri(with beta1)12:38
djszapiI do not need the beta1 package.12:38
gribut I do since that has the right source12:38
TheBootroohello all !12:38
TheBootrooQUESTION : is the Harmattan Video Gallery app made with MeeGoTouchFramework or with QML Components ?12:39
TheBootrooso we can't modify its appearance at all12:40
griqt-components is ovi store, facebook and twitter12:40
gri(the gui part of them)12:40
TheBootrooand accuweather12:40
griTheBootroo: Except of editing their css style files, you can't do much12:40
TheBootrooi find the video gallery particulary shitty12:41
grirewrite it with qml ;)12:41
griand put it onto meego-ce12:41
TheBootrooyes i will surely do12:41
TheBootroobut i have some troubles with QML MultimediaKit Video element12:42
TheBootrooif i listen to myself, i'm going to rewrite at least the video player and the music player12:45
TheBootrooto add them the rotation support12:45
TheBootrooand more complete UI12:45
mecewell perhaps editing the css would add rotation support.12:46
RST38hThere is already a couple of gallery apps around12:47
RST38has to the video player, no idea why anyone would need portrait: videos are either 4:3 or 16:9 anyway12:48
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ajalkanenotes is also qt components in beta212:50
TheBootrooRST38h: not portrait for player, but landscape for the gallery12:51
TheBootrooRST38h: all i want is to not have to rotate my phone 10 times in an app use12:52
djszapigri: I was thinking of this develsh, and I think it is logical it is coming from unknown origin.12:53
TheBootrooan app should not have single orientation alternating, should be all portrait or all landscape, or all auto12:53
khertan1or not12:53
TheBootroothat's the way i create all my apps, proof that it is feasable12:53
djszapigri: actually, it is much better than in beta1, and it closes many security holes.12:53
khertan1yep this beta 2 is really better12:54
khertan1specially network12:54
gridjszapi: I don't care about the holes since no one will hack me, I just want to develop without the need to fight with aegis12:54
TheBootrookhertan1: O RLY ? for my part i feel my N950 drop moer easily network in lifts and buildings than in beta112:55
griother platforms provide a working simulator, since harmattan fails at this, they should allow proper on-device testing12:55
djszapigri: you do not, but other people do (including myself). Also it has nothing to do with fighting.12:55
djszapigri: it takes no effenct on you actually.12:55
khertan1TheBootroo: really ? each time in beta1 i lose network it wasn't always able to recover it  (50%)12:57
khertan1and it s works better in the train12:57
khertan1gri: what the problem with the simulator ? it s works well12:57
meceyeah, I've noticed improvements in network in beta2 TheBootroo, khertan112:58
TheBootrookhertan1: network strenght update is very faster, but i found it more sensible too12:58
khertan1i live in a low coverage zone12:58
grikhertan: the qt simulator? Try using harmattan things that require pkgconfig ...12:58
khertan1gri: didn't use pkgconfig13:00
gridjszapi: I have the believe that when I buy a device I should be able to do what I want with it like a computer. That's why I got the n900 for example13:00
gridjszapi: When nokia stops supporting the n9, harmattan is screwed since no one can update "" packages13:00
djszapigri: do not buy N9, please.13:00
khertan1gri: like n900 :)13:01
grion the n900 you can update Qt, on the n9 you won't be able to do that13:01
mecekhertan1, there's no signing required on N900. You can replace any package13:01
khertan1mece, yeah except you don't have drivers sources :)13:02
djszapiI do not even understand what the complain is about. Seems like time wasting to me. There was a transparent security fix, which is even confied to unknown origin and this guy is telling "" is not good, when it was actually changed from that.13:02
gridjszapi: Don't get it13:03
djszapigri: you keep complaining even if we made a transparent security fix and actually according to your personal wish as well. What are complaining about ??13:04
mecewho si we?13:05
infobotmece meant: who is we?13:05
khertan1djszapi: are you paid to defends aegis against angry dev ?13:05
gridjszapi: I don't like that fact to throw away my hardware in one year when nokia decides to stop continuing harmattan. Maemo was cool because you had a working system where you can replace part if you don't like them. Harmattan is like all other systems: If support is gone, you can put your own (half-baked) software on the phone ...13:05
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khertan1as it s look like your are wasting a large part of your time with that :)13:06
djszapikhertan1: I fair unfair seeing complaining people without /any/ knowledge, and degrading something according to their unskilled situation.13:06
khertan1djszapi: but as it s a feeling ... you fight all you can against, they will still have the same feeling13:06
djszapithat is a very sad consequence...13:07
TheBootroolet hope in one year meego CE will be advanced enough to replace harmattan on the N9(50)13:07
khertan1personnaly, i 'm happy seeing a security framework13:07
khertan1but i still hope that some part are improved13:07
khertan1s/are/will be13:08
TheBootrookhertan1: me too but it lacks a control center to adjust autorisations, kinda like web service (facebook...)13:08
meceTheBootroo, exactly13:08
khertan1TheBootroo: < or at least one to review given autorisation13:08
djszapikhertan1: but see ? Here is the guy saying something, we even acted according to his wish, and he still complains about that. Is it nice ? :)13:08
djszapidoes it have any rationale ? :)13:09
Venemo_webchatgood morning13:09
khertan1'lu Venemo_webchat13:09
griTheBootroo: Yes, a security framework is good when you can change the authorizations but only having nokia at this place sucks13:09
TheBootroogri: i +113:10
TheBootrooMeeGo CE needs a good authorisation system13:10
TheBootroowith the ability to disable it when developping / hacking13:10
TheBootrooa dev must know what he is doing13:11
djszapidisable what ?13:11
TheBootroodjszapi: disable the security checks when hacking, and re-enable them later13:11
djszapithe environment who a system is supposed to work and then work in a fake environment ?13:11
TheBootrookinda like the antiviruses on the computers13:11
djszapiand then hoping it will again work in the real environment ?13:11
griwasn't that like it works on android? When you have a developer device with enabled developer mode, you can access the whole system and debug but all market apps are disabled?13:12
TheBootroodjszapi: i mean when you try to hack something, you must be able to disable the protection temporarly if it is too restricitve13:12
griI would accept that :)13:12
TheBootroogri +113:12
TheBootrooa UseMode and an DevMode/HackMode/GodMode13:13
djszapiTheBootroo: you are able to use the debugging tools ?13:13
TheBootrooday-to-day use -> UseMode,   quick hack, module changing -> GodMOde13:13
griwe are not able to debug secretly hidden aegis-authorized dbus calls with dbus-monitor13:14
TheBootroodjszapi: which one ?13:14
djszapiyes, and one just needs to get into that mode and he can do /anything/ with your system, he do not just regret ?13:14
djszapidoes not*13:14
TheBootroofuck yea* i did not understant what the heck you just said13:15
TheBootroo(like a boss, whatever)13:15
gridjszapi: Then make a switch to turn this on and off on the hardware or via usb on the computer13:15
TheBootroogri: +113:16
grior dual-boot screen whatever13:16
TheBootroook guy, here in france its 12 AM so i go to eat13:17
djszapiyes, helps so much when you do not computer availability (for instance travelling or any case), and your computer is even more vulnerable than the phone, so you would actually really downgrade the security with that. Actually to the most minimal level.13:17
smokuTheBootroo: if the device user is able to disable the security check temporarly, what stops evil app impersonating the user to disable the security check temporarly, do evil things and reenable it?13:17
Venemo_webchatTheBootroo: bon apetite13:17
TheBootroosmoku: ask for PIN code or something13:17
TheBootrooVenemo_webchat: merci13:17
TheBootrooVenemo_webchat: ;-)13:17
djszapiPIN code :D :D :D13:17
* TheBootroo is afk13:17
Venemo_webchatTheBootroo: this is about the only few words I know in French :)13:18
gridjszapi: Our computers are not nuclear centrifuges where the CIA checks which phone is plugged on13:18
djszapigri: you have seriously no idea about the minimal security. Do not take it offense, it is not a personal attack.13:18
djszapigri: Could you please install a package on your computer I do for you ? I am not from the CIA or FBI.13:18
smokuTheBootroo: shared secret could be evesdropped13:18
smokuTheBootroo: that would only make the evil app to wait hidden until you enter it yourself13:19
gridjszapi: I think you get what we want. A developer image where we can put on and off security. That's not that hard. And if you don't trust it, provide a developer image for the whole phone where this can be turned on and off. So there's no fear for the normal user13:20
griAnd now don't tell me a virus will reflash my phone with the developer image when attached13:20
djszapigri: sorry, but I am not wasting my time with it really, do not take it offense.13:21
djszapibut I do not really have to describe the basics, if you think it is a good idea to put the security to the computer instead of the phone.13:21
griI just want proper debugging and testing13:22
grieither on the phone13:22
grior what seems to be more impossible for nokia: on a working environment on my pc (scratchbox or a simulator)13:22
djszapilook, people ported almost 300 packages without any hassle.13:22
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djszapiincluding myself 50-60. I ported a complete game development platform without any hassle (No, not because of my security understanding).13:22
SpeedEvilThat's clearly the slow and boring way to make apps.13:23
SpeedEvilOne vendor has over 250 pages of apps in the store...13:24
SpeedEvilAll RSS feeds.13:24
djszapiSpeedEvil: how many package have you ported ? Why do you not respect the community work in that ?13:24
griI can beat that with my rss-feed-creator-bot :)13:24
SpeedEvildjszapi: I was more pointing to the current spamminess of the store.13:24
djszapiSpeedEvil: ohh you by passed the current matter from one second to the other, okay. I was not talking about that.13:25
SpeedEvilgri: Go for it!13:25
SpeedEvilgri: Search for every ESS on the internet, and drop it into the store. We need apps.13:25
SpeedEvildjszapi:  Where are these apps btw?13:25
griIt's cool they even can set a price of 5 € for rss apps13:25
faenilmain feeling is people expected a new n900 as Nokia seemed to advertise n9 as, and got a consumer device which does not suit their needs. That's it.13:26
djszapiSpeedEvil: our community repository13:26
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SpeedEvilIs there a list of repositories for harmattan somewhere?13:27
meceSpeedEvil, here's something:
djszapiSpeedEvil: you do not know the rzr repo ?13:31
djszapifaenil: that is a sad and speculative consequence ? How much trouble did you have with security while making your UNI project ?13:32
SpeedEvildjszapi: Real life has been getting in the way of having enough energy to investigate as I should.13:32
smokufaenil: not really. people advertised n9 as the new n900. nokia advertises it as a consumer device in the same league as new symbian devices.13:33
faenildjszapi: me nothing, I was playing with 3d graphics how could I have problems with security, that would have been weird :)13:34
djszapi3d graphics uses low-level gpu...13:35
faenilyes but why on earth should a sec system give problems with that...13:35
djszapifrankly, I just feel this as feeding each other, like: "aegisfs eats 50% of CPI" and others. So many things like that without the real steps to be able to reproduce.13:36
djszapiand most of the time after helping a lot, the realizations, it is a pebkac.13:36
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SpeedEvilfaenil: Low level hardware usually has access to RAM13:37
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SpeedEvilfaenil: You can if you've got full control of the GPU access RAM at will, bypassing security completely. In addition, pretexting.13:37
gridjszapi: One step forward would be when aegis would tell the user what privileges he is missing instead of "permission denied" or other funny errors13:37
djszapiit does ?13:37
gridjszapi: Where? I've not seen this13:38
SpeedEvilThe user should neverhit permission errors, or the deev is doing something wierd.13:38
djszapiagain, please do not make unskilled, but "serious" consequeces, really please.13:38
djszapiit is just the feeding of the "dislike aegis" group without real facts.13:38
faenilSpeedEvil: sure, you can do many evil things...what I meant was, that it would have been weird if using 3d graphics would have implied special security measures, because you don't need to do it anywhere13:38
djszapiit is basically the lack of understanding what this disliking was based on from the beginning.13:38
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gridjszapi: It's not a complete disliking of aegis, I think we all understand that security is needed13:39
djszapigri: see your posts today ? 2-3 posts, degrading remarks for aegis. Reason ? Lack of your understanding!13:40
faenilI said what it is, it's people expecting N900 and getting a different thing, less hacking friendly13:40
griIt's only that apple feeling where the vendor decides what we are able to do13:40
faenilthat doesn't mean the platform is not valid13:40
djszapigri: shouldn't you start with humbleness and asking if you do not know how to do something ? I mean there are people for helps.13:40
faenilit's just devs were expecting something different..13:40
djszapifaenil: we were porting 300 packages from the /base/ system. You cannot say that is not low-level enough without any issue13:43
faenilso you basically think people are complaining without a sense13:44
djszapisorry, it is not offensive, but most of the time13:45
faenilok ;)13:45
djszapiand where I saw sense, like aegis-developer-mode --relaxed-exec and other things, I tried to make it better.13:45
faenilbut, you could not help more than that because you can't do everything...13:46
djszapiI am not deciding about open mode, I could not make that any better, BUT: I tried to cook with the current ingredients.13:46
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djszapi(if you asked some internals, they would probably confirm that, I fought a lot internally for open mode as well)13:47
faenildjszapi: I there are problems you accept..13:49
faenillike relaxed-exec, which are not thrivial...or am I wrong?13:49
djszapiquite a few things I do not accept about the decisions, like this, or developer signing tool we did was rejected, or the maintain scripts are still the sure place of the deny allow services and so forth13:50
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djszapimmh, openssh binary is also missing:
faenilcan you build it?13:56
faenilgeneral you13:56
djszapiit seems they actually missed the tool binaries.13:57
wazdalso, check out this font, it's really cool and we can use in for MeeGo :P
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khertan1djszapi: it s not included in the firmware ?14:13
* TheBootroo is back14:14
djszapikhertan1: never said that.14:15
TheBootroodjszapi: seriously can you imagine a noob hacker trying to dump ram using a gpu driver hole, all that using QML ????  SRLSY14:15
djszapiTheBootroo: game development is not just about graphics.14:15
djszapiI think you have a bit of misconception about game development.14:16
TheBootroodjszapi: not14:16
TheBootroodjszapi: i only say that since harmattan apps have to be developped using QML, it limits extremely the access to low level things14:16
djszapithe is plain false14:17
djszapimore people developing MTF including myself, there is no "have to be".14:17
TheBootroomost of app dev will not ever type a single C++ line (and i don't like this idea)14:17
djszapithe platform is written mostly in C++14:17
TheBootroodjszapi: MTF is deprecated, nokia himself says 'Use QtQuick Components only"14:17
TheBootroodjszapi: i know that14:18
TheBootroodjszapi: i'm a dev14:18
TheBootrooi do C++ mainly14:18
TheBootrooand i don't like QML very much14:18
TheBootroobut be realistic, most apps will be dev using it, so no need to worry that much about these low level things14:18
TheBootroojust let the real devs uses them if they want, by alowing the annoying aegis to be disabled14:19
djszapi"real dev" -> made my day ;)14:19
TheBootroopersonnaly i just cried when i saw a root command returning 'Permission Denied' WTFFF14:19
TheBootroodjszapi: by real i means the one who use C++ to access system, not just doing some QML fancy-fancy14:20
djszapiI do consider them "real dev" as well!14:20
TheBootroodjszapi: more like designer devs14:20
TheBootrooand it's not an insult14:20
TheBootrooonly something different14:20
TheBootrooyou may have heard about my project 'LibMWTk' : its all about allowing this fancy stuff to be done in plain C++ without typing a single line of QML14:22
TheBootroobecause personnally i prefer the C++ to a declarative syntaxis14:22
TheBootroobut everyone is free to chose14:22
djszapiMTF will be deprecated from a future version which is not here, probably never be and even if that was the case, the platform will not be rewritten by non-existing developers here, if that was make any sense. I do not personally think that would, though.14:22
faenilwell I think using qml makes your life much easier, but still, you have to know what's behind it, and be able to write c++ extensions yourself...14:23
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TheBootroofaenil: from my experiences, i personnaly didn't found it a time gain or an ease, because i had to mix QML + JS + C++ to do finally less things that i would have done easily with my usual C++ classes .... the only reason of using QML was that i had not the choice, since QWidgets are not properly supported14:24
TheBootrooso to solve my pb i started developping a C++ api which does all the QML tricks for me14:25
TheBootrooso now i can dev my programs in full C++14:25
khertan1djszapi: mtf ? did you see the result on harmattan ?14:25
TheBootrooand they are compatible with all Qt supported plateforms, not only Harmattan like QtComponents for harmattan14:25
djszapiplateforms ? :)14:26
djszapiHarmattan is a good plate-form ? :)14:26
faenilTheBootroo: this way u're just saying qml apis are not complete...not that it's not easier ;)14:26
TheBootrooMTF was a cool idea, but the result is a fail14:26
khertan1qml too ... good idea14:27
TheBootroofaenil: not only, i say that i prefer Qt style dev than QML style dev14:27
khertan1not mature enough14:27
faenilkhertan1: agree, still needs time14:27
khertan1i can admit it s a good things, even if i don't like it and prefer Qt style14:27
TheBootroofaenil: a big project using QML is quickly unreadable and hard to debug14:27
TheBootrookhertan1: clearly14:27
TheBootroowait QML 214:28
TheBootroomaybe it will be a little better14:28
faenilI'm talking about qml for ui14:28
faenilnot for eevrything ;)14:28
faenilit would make UI code reading much easier14:28
khertan1and during this time, we mix qml with qgraphicproxywidget :)14:28
TheBootroofaenil: even for the ui its far from complete14:28
TheBootrookhertan1:   :X14:28
faenilbut don't look at what it is now :)14:28
khertan1this is what i do for KhtEditor14:29
khertan1no choice14:29
TheBootroofaenil: the issue is that Nokia tell us 'you have to use it now'14:29
faenilmy favourite combo atm is QML for UI and c++ for the rest14:29
TheBootroobut what i miss the most is a real full access to QML classes into C++14:29
faeniland devs who don't know c++ will do nothing with qml only14:29
khertan1faenil: not really14:30
khertan1they can code in python too14:30
TheBootroobecause we can subclass only QDeclarativeItem, not the child classes (TextEdit, MouseArea... etc)14:30
jreznikfor simple mobile apps qt components are great... I threw out my plain Qt Symbian app, it wasn't worth the problems...14:30
TheBootroofaenil: you are wrong, many designers have done apps in plain QML without knowing C++ (look at Tommi Laukkanen)14:30
khertan1jreznik: except if you want text managment14:31
faenilis kasvopus qml only?14:31
TheBootroofaenil: kasvopus, twingo, nelisquare, meetodo ....14:32
TheBootroofaenil: newsflow (that i heavily tweaked)14:32
TheBootrooare all pure QML+JS14:32
faenilthat's why perf is not max..14:32
TheBootroofaenil: classic troll14:32
faenilheavy use of js14:32
TheBootroofaenil: but you are true14:32
faenilclassic troll, but I'm right? then it's not troll :D14:32
TheBootroofaenil: its a troll in the way it will launch a violent discussion, but in all troll at least one part is true14:33
faenilcould not keep that xD14:33
TheBootrooi tweaked newsflow UI for harmattan, and now i will surely need to move the core to C++ since i need a better network query system14:34
faenilno the fact is I have nothing against twimgo, but from what all people say I would have imagined it to be smoother, and "better" ui14:34
khertan1oh now i understand why twingo reload thigs everytime, is slow14:34
khertan1and doesn't work well with sfr networks14:35
TheBootroofaenil: all tommi apps are quite great in the UI but core speed could be enhanced, but given the hardness of mixing C++ and QML, i understand he prefered to do the whole thing in QML14:35
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griTheBootroo: Good point! Try mixing qt mobility c++ and declarative -> impossible!14:35
khertan1TheBootroo: depends of your conception of great UI14:35
TheBootrookhertan1: +114:36
khertan1the main problem of qml is himself14:36
TheBootrookhertan1: for most people, its better than the basic14:36
TheBootrookhertan1: +114:36
khertan1try to set the useragent14:36
khertan1and the default user agent use isn't allowed to be used on SFR 3G Networks14:36
TheBootrooi want to do a queued multithreaded network requester for my Google Reader client -> can't use JS only14:37
khertan1so ... twimgo didn't load image14:37
khertan1TheBootroo: c++ or python14:37
TheBootroopython is as slow as JS, its the same idea : script engine14:37
khertan1as slow ... hum14:37
TheBootrooand i don't like python syntaxis and its management of the objects14:38
TheBootrookhertan1: almost14:38
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khertan1did you know that most time is used waiting user event or in module coded in c14:38
TheBootroolook at that :*14:38
TheBootroolook at that :
TheBootrooits the new UI for newsFlow, adapated for Harmattan14:39
khertan1are you a fan of black and white ?14:39
TheBootrooi will now work on enhancing the network core14:39
TheBootrookhertan1: not specially a fan, i only follow the default harmattan style for dark and bright themes14:40
khertan1no alternate color ?14:40
khertan1for row14:40
TheBootrooand that's not real black, its #22222214:40
TheBootrookhertan1: nope14:40
khertan1indeed there isn't in the default theme14:41
TheBootroothe alternate color is for the parent item : the tag14:41
TheBootrooa little brighter14:41
khertan1ah ... indeed the screenshot didn't render it14:41
djszapifaenil: where is your hotel exactly in Munich ?14:41
faenilyouth hostel :)14:42
khertan1TheBootroo: it s me or the menu didn't follow the theme color ?14:42
TheBootrookhertan1: wait a little yet, i need to fix the core and then i will make an harmattan package14:42
TheBootrookhertan1: yes i need to do a dark version of the menu gradient14:42
khertan1i'm not in hurry ... not an user14:42
khertan1just making suggest :)14:42
djszapifaenil: address ?14:43
faenildon't remember, let me look up the website14:43
TheBootrookhertan1: and i listen to you14:43
TheBootrookhertan1: did you saw my project's website ?14:43
khertan1nope ... let see it :)14:43
TheBootrookhertan1: its the famous project aiming to provide a full but easy to use C++ api for creating mobile app using declarative componenst14:44
TheBootrookhertan1: close to first beta public release14:45
TheBootrookhertan1: and the api docuementation is already only14:45
griTheBootroo: Wow! I would prefer to use c++ only :)14:45
TheBootroogri: that's the fial aim14:46
TheBootrooi am glad to finally find someone who see the point of a such project14:46
djszapifaenil: 54 minutes travelling from my hostel which is close to the event I guess.14:46
faenilno way14:47
djszapimy hotel*14:47
TheBootroogri: khertan1: you can find the doc here
faenilif your hotel is the one on qt dev days page14:47
griTheBootroo: Do your classes use different styles on different platforms?14:47
faenilthan it's the one where conference is held afaik14:47
griTheBootroo: like automatically placing the back button on bottom left on harmattan14:47
faeniland it's 20min away from centre of munich, where my hostel is14:48
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djszapifaenil: well, have you checked the munich journey planner ?14:48
TheBootroogri: the aim is not to mimic the host look and feel14:48
djszapi -> Andreas-Danzer-Weg 1 - senefelderstr 514:48
TheBootroogri: but to provide the best possible look no matter the plateform14:48
faenilnope I have asked my german roomate to check for public transport fees and timetables :D14:48
griTheBootroo: ok14:48
TheBootroogri: i have taken most of the guideline from the MeeGo Ui Guidelines14:49
griTheBootroo: You know the imtk lib?14:49
djszapifaenil: try it out yourself, it is 54 minutes for me.14:49
TheBootroogri: and some of my own thoughs, like placing the toolbar on the right  in landscape to optimize the screen use14:49
khertan1TheBootroo: <<< khteditor on harmattan14:49
faenil54minutes by what?14:49
TheBootroogri: dunno imtk14:49
djszapifaenil: public transport (not taxi)14:50
faenilI should get the speed train, and then wal14:50
TheBootroogri: found their gitorious repos, seems pretty dead now14:51
griTheBootroo: Yes, it was used for the first phone examples:
grithose are also running on the n90014:51
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TheBootroogri: did you see the automatical list manager for MWTk on my blog ?
TheBootroothe doc is here :
djszapifaenil: at any rate, when can you arrive on Sunday ?14:52
Venemo_N950mfe account plugin has no option to sync all messages in 34-214:52
Venemo_N950it definitely had that in 22-614:53
faenil06:30 am14:53
djszapifaenil: I could be there around 1-214:55
djszapipm :)14:55
faenilshould be able to survive :) lol14:55
griTheBootroo: You're documenting very well :)14:55
TheBootroogri: thanks14:56
TheBootroogri: PS english is not my native language but i try to do my best14:57
Venemo_N950anyone else missing this option?14:57
faenilmy n950 is not connecting to wifi anymore :)15:00
TheBootroogri: if you have qtcreator on your computer, you can try the demo app by simply pull my gitorious and compile it on  you computer, the projet aimsto provide an api fully usable on a computer with exactly the same look as on the device15:00
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griAre ssh keys stored at another location than ~/.ssh? Can't upload to gitorious anymore since I accidentally created a new key. Gitorious tells me permission denied no mather what key I use (of course all are added on the site)15:02
TheBootroogri: just create a new one and upload it on gitorious15:02
griAlready tried that15:02
TheBootroogri: worked for me when i got the same problem weeks ago15:02
griI receive the same message when I delete .ssh completely15:03
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griStrange, now it works without any change o_O15:06
faenildjszapi: let me know if you decide to book for 23, so that I can book train, thanks ;)15:09
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djszapifaenil: I will fly on Sunday, but not sure about the time. Otherwise I should wake up very early on Monday :p15:17
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TheBootroogri: done : fixed the dark theme menu15:28
griTheBootroo: Do you know if there's a way to make QtCreator accept a custom debian directory instead of using qtc_packaging?15:32
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TheBootroogri: no15:33
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djszapifaenil: we will miss the octoberfest though =)15:36
TheBootroogri: i just finely tunned the color balance in both modes, so the difference between items is more obvious15:43
TheBootroogri: ping!15:50
TheBootroogri: following your observations i enhanced the themes :
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CepiPerezhello guys16:01
TheBootrooCepiPerez: hello guy16:02
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CepiPerezi've followed MAG's tip to get the skype ui from n9 rda, but all I get is a blank screen16:03
CepiPerezcan yo help me?16:04
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CepiPerezI get galaxy on fire and need for speed with no problems, but can't make skype work16:04
faenildjszapi: yeah oktoberfest finishes on 3rd :)16:06
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dimitarhi all, has anybody had problems flashing n95016:09
dimitarthe rootfs part specifically16:09
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griTheBootroo: What did I observe? :)16:17
TheBootroogri: the difference of color between rows16:21
TheBootrooand the fact than menu doesn't follow theme16:21
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arceandimitar: yes, try another distro or Windows ;)16:23
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dimitararcean: did you get the same issue?16:24
griTheBootroo: That wasn't me16:25
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TheBootroogri: rly ?16:26
dimitararcean: problem is i have no windows around and have some old mac osx, what distro wuld you reccomend?16:27
TheBootroogri: oh ur true ! that was khertan116:27
TheBootroowho is interested by a package of NewsFlow ? (no new core yet)16:27
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hiemanshuTheBootroo: NewsFlow is a the Google Reader correct?16:30
TheBootroohiemanshu: true16:30
TheBootroohiemanshu: its a modified version of tlaukkanen app16:30
TheBootrooby me :D16:30
hiemanshumodified what way?16:30
TheBootroohiemanshu: the whole UI16:30
TheBootrooand enhanced16:31
TheBootroobigger rows, more clickable using finger16:31
TheBootroonumber of unread items16:31
TheBootrooin bubbles16:31
TheBootrooquick title menu to switch modes16:32
TheBootroounified flat tree for tags and feeds16:32
arceandimitar: It is said, that current versions of the distros such as Fedora, OpenSuse, Ubuntu etc have problems16:32
TheBootroohiemanshu: and many other improvements16:33
arceandimitar: maybe try to flash under OS X16:33
TheBootroobetter readability16:33
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TheBootroohiemanshu: do you want to test it ?16:33
hiemanshuTheBootroo: maybe later I will16:34
griarcean: I flashed with a Ubuntu 11.04 32 bit in vmware yesterday, worked without errors16:34
dimitararcean: do you have in mind specifically the flashing rather than the detection of the device?16:34
arceandimitar: the whole process16:35
Venemo_webchatarcean: workedforme, I flashed from my MeeGo netbook :)16:35
arceanVenemo_webchat: yes, on MeeGo it works but not on Fedora 15 :P16:35
Venemo_webchatI don't see why not16:35
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TheBootrooi don't know why, when i install my package, the icon disappears and i need to reboot to see it back...  any1 has the pb ?16:36
dimitararcean: thanks will give osx a try16:37
arceandimitar: let us know if it worked :)16:37
TheBootroook guys i go to coffee with a collegue, will be back in 10 minutes16:39
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kkitoDo you know how to view the mobile version (iphone/android) of gmail on the n950?16:51
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djszapithe point is not that tool or flasher should disable the security, but I think it should be tied to certain devices.16:53
djszapiit is /not/ feasible for end users, if the security can be turned off16:54
djszapiI do not understand why the current way is not enough, but if that is the case, probably t here should be N950 specific solution for this16:54
artemmaFunny ovi store reports tell that my Easy Discount Calculator was bought for some Symbian3 devices16:57
artemmaThe fun part is that so far we published Harmattan version only :)16:57
djszapior at least some user interaction like it was discussed the previous days with the high things..16:57
djszapihigh rate call things, no real option for background control.16:58
khertan1kkito: use the iphone user agent with fennec16:59
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* TheBootroo is back17:01
mecehej turns out you can initiate gtalk and skype calls fron N950 beta2 after all.17:02
meceand they work very well17:02
MohammadAGthe n950's browser is a bit impressive now17:02
meceMohammadAG, how so?17:03
macmaN_utf8 problems in Calendar have been fixed17:03
macmaN_re caldav sync17:03
TheBootrooMohammadAG: yeah but it fails to render some pages somethimes and says 'Web Process Crashed'17:03
MohammadAGhiemanshu, can you patch irc chatter17:03
meceI've not had that problem since the update17:03
MohammadAGmece crashes less17:03
hiemanshuMohammadAG: for what?17:04
MohammadAGmece, login to for your first crash17:04
MohammadAGhiemanshu, reimplement closeEvent()17:04
hiemanshuMohammadAG: and?17:04
MohammadAGsometimes i swipe down by mistake17:04
MohammadAGcloseEvent() should reactivate the window17:05
MohammadAGand ask are you sure you want to close irc chatter?17:05
MohammadAGlike fennec/dialer etc17:05
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MohammadAGmece, you can also initiate skype calls from the dialer17:05
meceMohammadAG, wasn't that what I said17:05
MohammadAGi like how the whole top area changes to blue with skype17:05
meceMohammadAG, I don't think that happens without the plugin17:06
meceMohammadAG, what color is it for gtalk?17:07
MohammadAGmece, gtalk doesn't have c!asses17:09
MohammadAGcall option*17:09
meceI called with gtalk a few minutes ago17:09
mecegoogle voice might be the real name of the service. well google anyway17:10
MohammadAGi pulled all google packages17:10
TheBootroomece: google voice != gtalk voip17:10
MohammadAGnone of them add an initiate call feature17:10
MohammadAGadd me, i'll see if it adds a call icon next to your name17:10
TheBootroogoogle voice is not XMPP, gtalk VOIP uses Jingle plugin for XMPP17:10
meceok... well I made a call over gtalk account17:10
MohammadAGmohammad7410 at gmail dot com17:11
meceok so then I made a call over xmpp apparently17:11
meceMohammadAG, ok hold on17:11
TheBootrooMohammadAG: i have trouble with google plugin : i can't add an account, it says 'Unknown error, retry later'17:12
MohammadAGauthorization request17:12
TheBootrooMohammadAG: wut ?17:12
meceTheBootroo, what commands did you use?17:13
MohammadAGmece there's a call button in contacts, nothing in dialer17:13
MohammadAGcan gtalk call landlines/mobiles?17:13
TheBootroomece: i only get the files from RDA17:13
TheBootrooMohammadAG: not17:13
TheBootrooMohammadAG: that is google voice to call phones17:13
TheBootrooMohammadAG: google talk is like msn, google voice is like skype Out17:14
MohammadAGgot it :)17:14
MohammadAGdon't use either but yeah...17:14
meceyeah.. well I meant like skype in..17:14
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TheBootroogoogle talk = skype in yeah17:14
TheBootroopersonnaly i prefer gtalk to skype, better quality, lighter, better video17:15
MohammadAGdoes it have free video calls?17:15
MohammadAGgroup video calls17:15
TheBootrooMohammadAG: any idea for my pb with google-plugin ?17:15
meceMohammadAG, anyway, if I look for you in dialer contacts, I can make a call from there.. like this17:15
meceyou don't have to answer.17:15
TheBootrooMohammadAG: group video using GTalk through Google+17:15
MohammadAGmece, on a slow connection17:16
TheBootrooMohammadAG: could you send me the files you have for google-plugin, maybe i miss one or two17:16
MohammadAGTheBootroo, nice!17:16
meceMohammadAG, well regardless, it works.17:16
TheBootrooMohammadAG: do you have google+ account ?17:16
MohammadAGTheBootroo, can you wait till i get home?17:17
TheBootrooMohammadAG: yeah no pb,17:17
MohammadAGTheBootroo, yeah17:17
TheBootrooMohammadAG: what is your name on g+ ?17:17
MohammadAGmece, yep, but it used Nokia tune rather than my ringtone17:17
MohammadAGmece call again, wanna see if this is a bug or sth17:17
meceok hold on, I went offline on the phone already17:18
meceheh weird bug, if I try to call from called/received/missed list it says account has been disabled.17:19
MohammadAGyeah, it's a bug17:19
MohammadAGuses Nokia tune as the ringtone17:20
MohammadAGso the n950 doesn't choke when i get a call17:20
meceMohammadAG, is it the same for skype?17:20
MohammadAGTheBootroo, Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh17:20
MohammadAGeither that or Moe17:20
MohammadAGmece not afaik17:20
TheBootrooMohammadAG: found you17:21
MohammadAGTheBootroo, lol17:21
MohammadAGecho-chinese no longer working?17:22
meceMohammadAG, but do you have the plugin for gtalk, or did you just use mc-tool?17:22
MohammadAGmece, plugin17:22
mecewell a bug it is17:22
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TheBootroomece: find the solution you will17:22
MohammadAGmece, ring me on skype17:22
MohammadAGafaik you have me already17:22
TheBootroomece: may the force be with you17:22
MohammadAGif not mohammad963017:23
TheBootrooMohammadAG: i had you on Twitter17:23
MohammadAGTheBootroo, it's me if that was you17:23
TheBootrooMohammadAG: ?17:23
MohammadAGTheBootroo, did you ask if that was me?17:24
MohammadAGoh, coincidences17:24
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meceMohammadAG, calling17:25
TheBootrooMohammadAG: i added you in my circles and asked for chat invite17:25
mecehmm I need to be authorized I think. I have two of you in the list already MohammadAG :)17:26
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MohammadAGnothing on the n95017:27
TheBootrooMohammadAG: are you speakin to me ?17:28
mecehmm.. well that's annoying. Are there more accounts than mohammadag_n900 and mohammad9630?17:28
griWohooo, my contacts are not lost ... it seems I synced them to ovi once and now got them back :)17:29
MohammadAGmece, no incoming calls either17:29
meceI don't think i can call without being authorized tho..17:30
meceadd me17:30
meceon skype17:30
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MohammadAGmece no auth requests :p17:31
MohammadAGmohammadag_n900 was a fix for the sign in issue17:32
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TheBootrooMohammadAG: does only the N950 handle request ?17:32
MohammadAGwhere you had to login on another account and log back out to fix it17:32
meceseems to work now.,.17:33
mecehah gave me your phonenumber too, lol17:34
meceok, calling (on skype)17:34
MohammadAGmece yeah, nokia tune for anything other than voice calls17:34
MohammadAGoh wait17:34
* mece waits17:34
MohammadAGlol that was stupid of me17:34
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TheBootrooMohammadAG: maybe you change in the settings17:35
MohammadAGinternet ringtones are different, can be changed in settings17:35
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TheBootroomece: wut ?17:36
mecelemme see if I can do that too17:36
mecejust that they can be separately changed17:36
meceis nice17:36
TheBootroomece: without the plugin maybe not17:36
meceTheBootroo, yes, works without plugin too17:36
meceafk for a bit.17:37
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TheBootrooMohammadAG: i go home, i'll try to come here later so you can ping me at this moment17:54
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macmaN_DocScrutinizer: tested multibutton headset remote control today. all buttons work on beta2.17:58
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DocScrutinizergreat. I checked the N9 schematics and found there's no fancy additional gear at all about communicating to multibutton-hs, just the twl5030 with a pin called HSMIC_DC (probably Digital Communication)18:05
vladestwhere to get latest usb driver for n950?18:05
DocScrutinizerso with a datasheet for twl5030 and the sources of the maemo driver for that multibutton stuff we should get it working finally for fremantle as well18:06
vladestI have a strange issue: qDebug() messages stopped flowing from device after some time18:06
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DocScrutinizerI'd not be surprised if this question wouldn't see any answer18:07
* vladest too18:10
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alteregovladest: you mean, your executed your app, your were getting debug messages, your app is still running but no longer outputing messages?18:11
vladestalterego: exactly!18:11
alteregoGutted :P18:11
alteregoCan't say I've heard of that happening before.18:12
alteregoAnd you're sure your app is running as it should otherwise?18:12
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vladestbut w/o debug messages18:12
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dimitarthe flasher won't work on osx 10.418:18
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dimitarwould someone who suceeded flashing the n950 on linux say what disto/version was used18:19
crevetordimitar: ubuntu 11.0418:20
dimitarcrevetor: thanks18:21
dimitararcean: did you mention all recen't versions of suse, fedora, ubuntu cause problems?18:22
dimitarto clarify the os x 10.4 is just too old and the flasher binary refuses to execute18:23
arceandimitar: it looks like that18:24
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alteregodimitar: I did same as crevetor but 64bit18:26
crevetor64bit too here18:26
alteregoJust use an ubuntu live stick18:26
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alteregoThink I might poke about the terminal source and see if I can get http links working, or come up with a cut&paste18:27
DocScrutinizerdimitar: suse11.318:28
arceandimitar: and avoid ubuntu 11.1018:28
berndhsdimitar: meego netbook18:28
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DocScrutinizeralterego: BOTH!! :-D18:29
ph0bdimitar: archlinux x6418:29
dimitari see :) thank you all will try suse 11.3 as i have 11.4 x64 alrady then see the others.18:30
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berndhsit's sort of ironic that, to update the device with all the trusted-computing stuff, you have to download a random binary and run it as root18:32
TheBootrooMohammadAG: i'm back18:33
leinir64bit opensuse 11.4 failed really badly...18:33
leinirberndhs: Hehe, yes, that /is/ kind of funny ;)18:33
dimitarirony indeed18:38
alteregoLooks like RZR has implemented copy&paste already.18:38
DocScrutinizerberndhs: It's about (dis)trust in *you*, the user, so you downloading random stuff and flashing it is fine as long as it makes sure it's not _your_ stuff that gets flashed ;-P18:39
alteregoAnd there is support for URLs ..18:39
DocScrutinizerberndhs: quite obviously the source of your random binary had to possess the signature private key that matches the public key buried in your "TPM" otherwise flasher would refuse to flash the firmware to device18:41
berndhsright, and nevermind what it might do to your host system :)18:43
DocScrutinizerberndhs: note that not even legit Nokia images can flash to *your* N950 if they had been signed for use on R&D-N950 only18:43
DocScrutinizerberndhs: right, who cares about host systems :-P18:44
DocScrutinizerafter all they don't have awesome acme aegis stuff, so it serves them right to get hijacked18:44
berndhsunfortunate collateral damage18:44
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DocScrutinizerplease don't forget this whole concept been developed with tight involvement of security experts :-D So did you really expect anything less than that?18:45
berndhsin general, it seems many security approaches mostly lock up the potential victims18:47
DocScrutinizerand that'S the defined purpose after all18:47
berndhscan't catch the fox, so you lock up the chickens18:47
DocScrutinizeras in
alteregoBalls, I can't update the terminal because it's signed with -_-18:55
DocScrutinizerlol, sure18:56
DocScrutinizeryou might however rename it18:56
alteregoDoing that :P18:56
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DocScrutinizerdunno if you're already aware of
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alteregoFinally :)19:04
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alteregoHrm, doesn't work19:27
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lbtrzr: can you disable builds of mg-terminal please19:34
lbtit's not working and it just takes a worker slot out permanently as it loops19:35
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dimitarthe flashing went fine with suse 10.2 x64. I am thiking of adding a few lines on the wiki N950_landing_page19:42
dimitarlisting the oses which are known to cause problems19:42
dimitarwhat do you think?19:42
hiemanshudimitar: makes sense19:43
dimitarfor now i understood suse 11.4 and ubuntu 11.1019:43
hiemanshuand fedora 1519:43
hiemanshu(all 64)19:44
dimitarok will list these for now19:44
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ajalkanei flashed with ubuntu 10.04, 32-bit19:45
dimitari am guessing the list of problematic ones is shorter so i'm thinking to put these19:48
ajalkaneHopefully that's the situation :)19:49
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dimitarajalkane: ok i wrote slightly older versions are fine19:55
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RST38hAnyone knows if it is possible to copy in EMail andBrowser apps?20:04
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fralsyou can copy your own input in email... and in url bar in browser, otherwise no20:09
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RST38hfrals:got it20:12
DocScrutinizerI think investigating what'S the root cause would be a better approach, two things come to mind: modprobe -r ohci_hcd and echo y >/sys/*/old-method-first20:12
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DocScrutinizerso s/ohci/ehci/20:16
RST38hHP CEO Le'o Apotheker will be ousted today, and former eBay CEO/failed gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman will take his place.20:18
DocScrutinizerdimitar: ^^^20:18
RST38hJesus wept.20:18
StskeepsRST38h: are they just cycling bad CEO's?20:18
berndhshow long has Leo been there? hasn't been all that long20:19
RST38hStskeeps: Apparently. The latest news is that the board has not even MET Apotheker in person before hiring him20:19
StskeepsRST38h: perhaps they didn't meet Meg either20:19
berndhsso if I run for governor of California and fail, I get a CEO job someplace ?20:20
SpeedEvilberndhs: It could be worse. They could be employing ex alaskan governors.20:20
RST38hThey could hire Swarznegger!20:21
StskeepsRST38h: that'd be kind of epic20:21
berndhsno they're not qualified, they were actually governor20:21
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RST38hStskeeps:Nothing impresses me nowadays. This whole current corporate capitalist model appears to be killing itself by sheerstupidity20:22
RST38h(and taking us all in its wake)20:22
StskeepsRST38h: too much corporate inbreeding20:22
RST38hStskeeps: Exactly20:22
ieatlintactually meg whitman is a tool and should never hold political office, but she was the CEO of ebay, and was widely credited with advancing the company20:22
ieatlintso she's probably qualified20:23
DocScrutinizerecho Y > /sys/module/usbcore/parameters/old_scheme_first20:23
DocScrutinizerand actually blacklist ehci_hcd, not only rmmod it20:23
DocScrutinizerunbind it20:23
RST38hHP is not eBay.Different business model.20:24
berndhsyeah and when you're done flashing, remember to put it all back20:24
ieatlinti noticed hp wasn't ebay as well20:24
DocScrutinizerberndhs: better than installing suse10.2 eh?20:25
berndhsDocScrutinizer: sort of20:25
ieatlintHP needs a new ceo, i'm not sure meg whitman is a good idea, but they do need a change20:26
ieatlintshe had a political scandal during the campaign last year... had an illegal immigrant working in her home for many years whom she underpaid20:27
RST38hthey need a shotinthe head,ever since Fiorina =(20:27
ieatlintergh, don't speak that name :P20:27
berndhsi thought Fiorina was a shot in the head20:27
RST38htrue, in a way20:27
RST38hFiorina was HP's Elop20:27
berndhsran for governor of California too20:28
ieatlinti've always just called her crazy sheep lady20:28
ieatlintnah, fiorina ran for senator20:28
berndhsah yes, my mistake20:28
berndhsfailed in the attempt though, so there's another qualification for the next CEO job20:29
* SpeedEvil looks at his HP bag of LEDs, and HP signal-generator.20:29
RST38hFiorina was widely rumored to plan for a presidential bid20:29
ieatlinthaha, hadn't heard that rumour20:30
RST38hFiorina vs Palin vs Cheney's daughter20:30
ieatlintshe should join that pack, there's room for more presidential candidates :)20:30
* DocScrutinizer read Palin and runs bathroom, throwing up20:30
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ieatlintcheney's daughter? she's gay, and not interested in politics20:30
RST38hDoc: ...where you will be met by Sarah, with her shotgun and a sixpack of beer20:31
RST38hieatlint: exactly, she is the least obnoxious of the three20:31
ieatlintdon't worry, when we make palin president, we'll be sure to screw the rest of the world over at least as much as we do ourselves20:32
ieatlintand that's a promise20:32
RST38hnah, out of capabilities20:32
DocScrutinizerby al empirics Ceney's doughter must plan to kill her dad20:32
RST38hCan't kill Dick, he is already dead.20:32
ieatlinthe's more machine than man now20:33
RST38hIf you do not believe me,look at his medical history (googlable)20:33
berndhshaving said all that, apparently on c.obs the qmake variable MEEGO_EDITION does _not_ contain "harmattan"20:33
DocScrutinizerduh, the Borg assimilated him?20:33
RST38hThere is no Borg, old Dick is just a good old zombie. Or a vampire of sorts.20:34
berndhswell, he does have a brain, he's just not the most compassionate guy20:35
RST38hBeats John Ashcroft who had to be chained in the basement on every full Moon20:35
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RST38hThey called it "Bible studies" =)20:36
ieatlintyou could scare him away with nudity though20:36
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TheBootroomy connection failed20:37
TheBootrooit seems like i just missed a great piece of conversation20:37
RST38hieatlint: yea, for some reason human mammary glands put him into foul mood. Something from his past, I am sure20:37
berndhsTheBootroo: this is a consequence of Leo being resigned from HP20:38
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ieatlinthas it actually happened yet?20:39
RST38hno but it almost has20:39
berndhsstock market wants to believe it20:39
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TheBootroodamn freakin connection20:49
TheBootrooi hate it20:49
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dimitarDocScrutinizer: this is a better approach indeed21:02
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dimitarDocScrutinizer: was his the problem with half flashing?21:03
infobotdimitar meant: DocScrutinizer: was this the problem with half flashing?21:04
DocScrutinizergeneric USB problems21:04
DocScrutinizerI can't think of another reason why a new distro would fail while an old one works21:04
DocScrutinizerexcept maybe phonet kernel driver21:05
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DocScrutinizerand cdc_ether, both mentioned on21:05
infobotsomebody said maemo-flashing was
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dimitarthis is another issue21:05
dimitarthe cdc21:05
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dimitarthe erros are different and flasher can't get to the device at all21:06
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dimitarthe problem i had was much after connection was established21:06
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dimitari made a post here:
DocScrutinizerwhen it fails halfway thru flashing, I suspect ehci21:07
dimitarand sent a msg to another person with seemingly same problem21:07
fluxI sometimes had that problem when I had vmware running21:07
fluxsomehow vmware captured the usb device mid-flashing21:07
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DocScrutinizerooh, yes, quite possible21:08
hiemanshumine was with bb5_rdc_cert_read failed, worked fine with windows21:08
DocScrutinizervmware (and other VM) are messing with USB drivers quite a bit on low level21:08
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dimitarwould you say i better remove the line warning about the new distros and replace with the ehci explanation21:09
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: also might be an issue of somewhat too high transmission speed21:09
DocScrutinizerso ehci again, aiui21:09
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DocScrutinizerdimitar: I'd keep both for now21:10
DocScrutinizerso others can confirm or falsify21:10
hiemanshuhmmm, maybe if someone can try it? I'll probably try it much later during the weekend when I dont really need the phone21:10
DocScrutinizerhiemanshu: I never faced that issue, during the 2 flashes I did21:11
hiemanshuDocScrutinizer: what distro?21:11
dimitarthen lets keep as it is until someone tries then put a proper explanation21:12
hiemanshuand it work for jreznik on Fedora 1521:12
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DocScrutinizersuse11.3 (or .2)21:12
dimitarit worked for me on 11.221:12
* DocScrutinizer never gets it where to find out about suse distro version21:13
dimitarhere "/etc/SuSE-release"21:13
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hiemanshuyeah, 11.2 works, 11.4 doesn't seem to work21:15
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DocScrutinizeranyway USB drivers are quite a bit depending on chipset I think21:20
DocScrutinizerso not only disto version related21:20
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berndhsthe text displayed in a QML TextInput is not the one contained in the "text" property, this is not good21:24
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fralsberndhs: quite sure the text property has the text as soon as its been commited to the input21:30
berndhsfrals: i'm quite sure its different from what is displayed at the end of editing21:31
fralsberndhs: and the missing word is not underlined (ie not yet commited)?21:32
fralstext + preedit.text should have it all, anyway21:32
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infobotfrals meant: text + platformPreedit.text should have it all, anyway21:33
berndhsthere is no validator set on the text, unless the platform does that21:33
berndhsso why would it underline anything ?21:34
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fralsbecause you are using the vkb with word correction?21:34
berndhsthe text looks like a date and time, but I haven't set anything to say that it is21:34
berndhsseems to do the same with hw kbd, i looked at that21:35
berndhsbut yeah it looks like a case of something guessing what is valid input and what isn't21:35
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fralsat least platformPreedit is keeping some text from qt-components textarea/textfield when error correction is active on the vkb21:36
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berndhsthis is plain QtQuick components, accoding to my import statement21:37
berndhsquiet implicit helpers can cause so much trouble, its a bad concept21:39
berndhsfrals: do you know how to detect if the vkbd is displayed ?21:41
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fralsberndhs: dunno, but iirc textinput has methods to open/close vkb21:43
fralsand iirc page height is changed when vkb is shown when using qt-components21:43
berndhsyes i found those, also found the event asking for a vkbd21:44
berndhsrequesting the vkbd doesnt mean it will show up21:45
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Venemogood evening everyone :)21:57
berndhsVenemo: howdy21:58
Venemoberndhs, I'm good, thanks for asking :)21:59
berndhsthat's positive21:59
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Venemoberndhs, I'm very positive since I decided not to care about the fate of the Harmattan platform :)22:00
berndhsmore reason to be positive :)22:02
Stskeepsit's chuck norris22:03
berndhssure, easy for him22:03
Venemoberndhs, even more reason for happiness:
Venemoslight hacker notice: for EVEN MORE FUN, read the sources of the page :)22:05
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dm8tbrVenemo: spoilsports, that's for the advanced to find out themselves ;)22:32
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Venemodm8tbr :P22:33
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ieatlintand indeed, hp names its new ceo23:23
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