IRC log of #harmattan for Wednesday, 2011-09-21

* javispedro is starting to attach to harm...00:00
javispedrospecially now that all of my little fixes are starting to work right =)00:01
MohammadAGyou can get whether data through the API00:01
MohammadAGlemme PM this00:01
DocScrutinizermeh, I still hate the concept, the hardware, the perspectives, and last not least the mindset00:01
DocScrutinizerplus it started with screwing all those that were told meego was the legit successor of maemo fremantle (buzzword "how I learned to love the bomb", one-click-recompile-run-everywhere. A bunch of lies)00:04
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DocScrutinizera few hours ago I stumbled across and thought "Oh my, how much remaining of all this nice stuff on harmattan. :-S"00:08
javispedroall of it?00:08
DocScrutinizer>>The Maemo™ platform, first introduced in 2005 on Nokia Internet Tablet devices, realises a vision to bring PC-like features and user experiences to mobile devices.<<00:09
javispedrothat page excludes virtually anything from the non-qt maemo, which is what I miss most...00:09
DocScrutinizerPC-alike features? FAIL. PC-alike user experience? FAIL00:09
javispedrowhat's not PC-alike from it?00:10
javispedroand don't say landscapeness.00:10
DocScrutinizer>>Based on well known open-source Linux components<<? FAIL. All you knew about linux, forget it as now there's aegis00:10
javispedroer.. portraitness.00:10
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DocScrutinizerc'mon even my 30bucks mp3 player is more PC-like than HARM. It at least knows about the concept of a filesystem and a directory tree00:13
* javispedro sighs00:13
javispedroyou are talking with the wrong person here then00:13
ieatlintactually most pc music players don't do a directory tree for playback00:13
javispedroI grown up with PalmOS, and learned C with PalmOS, so..00:13
ieatlintand are in fact more like the harmattan music player00:14
DocScrutinizerieatlint: I don't give a sh*t, as my PC music player has an explicit inport of *FILES* or whole *DIRS* to the local database, while on HARM there's obviously a general concept of hiding dir tree from user, no matter if in mediaplayer, or storing backups or whatever. A concept that already failed boldly on iOS as for e.g mail attachments you get into conduit hell or any other insane pathological state of mind when ignoring such a basic00:17
DocScrutinizerconcept as directories and fs00:17
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the problem was obvios even back on palmpilot 300:18
ieatlintsounds like you have a bone to pick that would be best solved with a blunt object and a plane ticket to espoo00:19
ieatlinti'll chip in $2000:19
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javispedroeither way, I usually see only two problems when you got the soup of files approach00:21
javispedroa) how you react to unknown extensions00:21
javispedrob) applications' tendency to forget about things like the "add attachment" button, upload file in HTML forms, etc.00:21
DocScrutinizernever knew on unix were any extensions actually00:21
rm_workthey're mostly convention IIRC00:22
rm_worklike using myscript.sh00:22
rm_workor else they are for compatibility00:22
rm_workbut i think convention/readability is the real reason (you're correct, there isn't really a technical reason00:22
javispedroand, funniliy enough, browser doesn't allow me to upload files, and mail's add attachments dialog doesn't list unknown extensions00:23
javispedroSTRIKE TWO!!!00:23
DocScrutinizerwich clearly poves those apps been developed by msdos converts00:24
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ieatlintthis appears like some sort of pseudo-religious war00:25
DocScrutinizerwho had a fuzzy understanding of unix fundamental concepts00:25
ieatlintharmattan isn't unix00:25
ieatlintand never was meant to be00:25
ieatlintit's not sysv even00:25
* sp3000 doesn't follow the msdos angle00:26
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ieatlintit's running all sorts of crazy custom things, with aegis being my only real headache00:26
ieatlintfile extensions are a well used bit of meta data that many average users understand, and it's incredibly small and easy to implement00:26
SpeedEvilApparantly, there is a vulnerability on the N9 introduced by NFC.00:27
DocScrutinizerI'm concerned about that trackerd abomination and the attached concept almost as much as about aegis00:27
ieatlintthe n900 was for geeks, the n9 is for consumers00:27
SpeedEvilTouch the n9 to RMS, and aegis explodes.00:27
javispedrothe entire N9 explodes, via RFC.00:27
ieatlinthmmm, RMS isn't that far away from me00:27
ieatlintbut i don't want to touch him00:27
ieatlinti can just laugh at him because the most successful linux os in the world doesn't use gnu?00:28
javispedrolike he cares about linux00:28
ieatlinthe cares enough that he generally has a crusade to correct people in saying "it's gnu/linux"00:29
GeneralAntillesI don't get directory-oriented media playback.00:29
DocScrutinizerieatlint: (n9 for "customers") fair point, but then it's absolutely rogue to lure away the maemo folks and promise meego will be way better and the paradise and whatnot00:29
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: from what i recall, maemo was always supposed to be refined into a consumer phone OS...00:29
javispedroieatlint: because he cares about _the part people are conveniently missing_ when referring to the entire system.00:29
ieatlintjavispedro: well, hurd will be here any day now00:30
ieatlintand then the party really begins00:30
javispedronice escape way, eh?00:30
javispedrocriticising the lack of progress in hurd is a nice thing to do.00:30
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ieatlintmore like making fun of the OS version of vaporware00:30
faenilgood evening everyone :P00:30
DocScrutinizerieatlint: <DocScrutinizer> >>The Maemo™ platform, first introduced in 2005 on Nokia Internet Tablet devices, realises a vision to bring PC-like features and user experiences to mobile devices.<<00:30
DocScrutinizervs <ieatlint> DocScrutinizer: from what i recall, maemo was always supposed to be refined into a consumer phone OS...00:31
ieatlintDocScrutinizer: yeah, it's not the word of god written there, it's a page written by a guy in marketing who was given a memo00:31
DocScrutinizeraha, so I shall GFO as that marketing guy has written shit and you always knew maemo was meant to become a consumer phone OS? Thanks!00:32
ieatlintheh, not trying to claim some sort of extra knowledge here00:33
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DocScrutinizerand that's not "some guy writing shit from a memo" that is THE official Nokia page about maemo500:33
ieatlintand maemo5 wasn't intended to be for the average consumer00:34
ieatlintthe n9 was00:34
DocScrutinizerso what?00:34
MohammadAG gtalk :P00:34
DocScrutinizer<DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: (n9 for "customers") fair point, but then it's absolutely rogue to lure away the maemo folks and promise meego will be way better and the paradise and whatnot00:34
ieatlintyeah, well, that's a personal opinion on whether it was an improvement00:35
sp3000MohammadAG: goog goog!00:35
ieatlinti feel it was00:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: don't start with meego.00:35
javispedroDocScrutinizer: harmattan is maemo.00:35
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DocScrutinizerharmattan is an idiot bastad son00:35
MohammadAGgmail doesn't work though, keeps asking for pass00:36
ieatlinti like the UI a lot better00:36
ieatlintMohammadAG: how'd you manage that? :)00:36
ieatlintam curious about the skype support as well00:36
DocScrutinizeryou're free to do that, djszapi obviously even likes android better00:36
DocScrutinizerothers go for iOS or even winP700:37
DocScrutinizerbut it's not a legit successor of maemo00:37
ieatlintwell, i'll grant you that much of what i saw as maemo is not in harmattan00:38
DocScrutinizerand there are zillion of devel folks that never get tired to tell us it was00:38
ieatlintand much of what i saw in meego as well00:38
ieatlintit's a bastard child, but that doesn't mean it's crap00:38
* javispedro fails to see _anything_ from meego on it.00:38
sp3000javispedro: the word meego?00:39
DocScrutinizeras much as a vehicle being a bulldozer doesn't mean it's crap compared to a Porsche00:39
javispedrosp3000: where?00:39
javispedrohidden between three stacks of pages in the settings about screen?00:39
ieatlintif your point is to say that they both serve different purposes quite well, then sure...00:40
sp3000yeah probably in an about screen00:40
DocScrutinizerbut when I bought a bulldozer I won't need or want a porsche to do the same job with that one00:40
DocScrutinizerand when I'm a Porsche driver I won't want a bulldozer to drive the highway with it00:40
DocScrutinizer3rd time: [2011-09-20 23:34:35] <DocScrutinizer> <DocScrutinizer> ieatlint: (n9 for "customers") fair point, but then it's absolutely rogue to lure away the maemo folks and promise meego will be way better and the paradise and whatnot00:41
ieatlintyeah, and i disagree :P00:42
DocScrutinizerhell, if N9/HARM was the first "maemo" device then you know I'd have frowned at it and happily bought an iPhone instead00:42
javispedroyou'd miss messybox =)00:43
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ieatlintyou can still do that00:43
DocScrutinizerI got N810 and N900 because I had a urgent deire for a *linux* phone/palmtop, not for a "custom customer aegis phone OS"00:44
ieatlintyeah, aegis is unfortunate, but i also understand why it's there00:45
DocScrutinizerhell, probably even bada and symbian were better suited than HARM for my needs00:45
javispedrowell, I completely don't.00:45
javispedroDocScrutinizer: yeah, TOTALLY sure.00:45
ieatlintwell, rumour has it bada is being opensourced00:45
ieatlintand having had to deal with symbian a lot lately, i don't believe that :P00:46
ieatlintsymbian makes my eyes bleed00:46
javispedronot to mention the feelings Bada evokes..00:46
DocScrutinizerwell, on other rumours Nokia will eventually disclose sources for HARM-3400:46
ieatlintrumour also has it intel has a collaboration ongoing with samsung that will be announced next week in seattle00:47
javispedrowhile Nokia rumours are usually true, specially the most pessimist ones,00:47
javispedrosamsung rumours have been mostly false so far00:47
ieatlinti'd bet money there will be a partnership between intel and samsung on an open source mobile platform other than meego00:48
ieatlintnot sure it's bada, and i'm only 80% sure it'll be announced next week, but i'm 100% sure it's happening00:48
javispedroso you're talking about alp00:48
javispedroI severely doubt it'll go anywhere00:48
* ieatlint shrugs00:49
ieatlinti've got no real details00:49
ieatlintbut if rasterman has been in seoul for the past 18 months+ and insists he hasn't been working on bada, it certainly raises questions00:49
MohammadAGat some point on some device I thought Bada was android00:49
MohammadAGthey copied everything00:50
javispedroieatlint: my point is exactly that, 18+ months.00:50
MohammadAGthen I clicked About device...00:50
javispedrowith less and less info as the time passed00:50
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DocScrutinizerieatlint: and I'd not be surprised to see the name Carsten rasterman Haitzler showing up on page one of that paper between samsung and intel00:50
ieatlintMohammadAG: so you able to talk about how you got skype and gtalk on there? :)00:50
javispedrothat rumours sounds nowhere near pessimistic enough to be considered plausible00:51
MohammadAGieatlint, N9 RDA00:51
javispedroin truth they will talk about android on x86 samsung devices00:51
javispedroor some similar crap00:51
ieatlintah, nice00:51
javispedromeanwhile, the only rumour I'm going to believe about Nokia in the near future is the one where Elop destroys the HQs using a giant robot version of himself00:52
ieatlinti'll believe all sorts of nokia rumours, just none about anything "good"00:52
DocScrutinizerI'm going to believe that I'm not going to contribute for the flowers when in 6 months the official Nokia funeral starts00:53
DocScrutinizerwait, all of his organs were recycled ind reused in a larger body, so basically he lives on there00:54
* DocScrutinizer recalls the VMS crew developing WNT00:56
DocScrutinizerNokia -> MS Opl_jb ?00:57
ieatlintbleh, heatwave here hitting ~3100:59
DocScrutinizertoss over a third of it to me, I could use it01:00
ieatlintaverage high this summer has been around 20, i'd be happy to lose a third01:00
alteregoI wonder if there is a way to fix the signal issue with the N95001:00
alteregoI may be imagining it but I think it's the screws that are causing the attenuation ..01:00
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DocScrutinizer51~weather EDDN01:07
infobotNuernberg, Germany; (EDDN) 49-30N 011-03E 318M; last updated: 2011.09.20 2150 UTC; Dew Point: 46 F (8 C); Pressure (altimeter): 30.27 in. Hg (1025 hPa); Relative Humidity: 87%; Temperature: 50 F (10 C); Visibility: greater than 7 mile(s); Wind: from the ESE (110 degrees) at 7 MPH (6 KT)01:07
GeneralAntillesieatlint, that's a heatwave? :P01:07
GeneralAntilles~weather KSPG01:07
infobotST PETERSBURG WHITTED AIRPORT , FL, United States; Conditions at; last updated: Conditions at; Dew Point: 73.9 F (23.3 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.92 in. Hg (1013 hPa); Relative Humidity: 71%; Sky conditions: partly cloudy; Temperature: 84.0 F (28.9 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the SSE (160 degrees) at 24 MPH (21 KT) gusting to 32 MPH (28 KT)01:07
ieatlint~weather KSFO01:07
infobotSAN FRANCISCO INTERNATIONAL  AIRPORT , CA, United States; Conditions at; last updated: Conditions at; Dew Point: 53.1 F (11.7 C); Pressure (altimeter): 29.88 in. Hg (1011 hPa); Relative Humidity: 38%; Sky conditions: mostly clear; Temperature: 81.0 F (27.2 C); Visibility: 10 mile(s); Wind: from the WNW (300 degrees) at 15 MPH (13 KT)01:07
GeneralAntillesOh, SF01:08
ieatlintcooler at the airport :P01:08
ieatlintand yeah, 32 is a heatwave... try 32 with no air conditioning anywhere01:08
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GeneralAntillesYeah, no AC always cracks me up.01:10
DocScrutinizer51lol, AC rather uncommon here in Germany, and yet 32C not unusual in summer01:13
DocScrutinizer51soon it'll be average01:13
DocScrutinizer51maybe then AC will see a boom01:13
SputI doubt that01:14
Sputelectricity is expensive :)01:14
berndhsor Tambora will blow again and all this climate business will be different01:14
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ieatlinthaha, if we all got ac units we'd completely take down the power grid01:15
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antman8969so I just updated the firmware and noticed that all of my dev tools are  gone...01:24
GeneralAntillesIf it ever properly snowed down here the power grid would die.01:24
GeneralAntillesantman8969, reenable dev mode in settings.01:24
antman8969aah, thanks generalantilles01:25
Sputoh, and while I failed downloading all the dev tools yesterday (even after repeatedly enabling the devmode), today I got an upgrade notification and the phone downloaded everything...01:25
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javispedrobah, without the SDK source, I have nothing to do01:31
javispedro*the new SDK01:31
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faenilgood night :) cya tomorrow guys :)01:37
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javispedroa thread for the aegis "fanclub" ;P02:47
DocScrutinizerI'd add it to the topic if it wasn't too long already02:48
* SpeedEvil is too mehd out by today to add.02:50
SpeedEvilOn the plus side, dj was useful distraction so I could complete a letter I really really wasn't wanting to write.02:50
DocScrutinizerplease share that trick! For me distractions never work for doing sth I don't want to do. They just do... distract me ;-)02:52
javispedroyeah, same02:52
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: the paradox in whle aegis "security" is: every idiotic malware could install develsh, and that's why they seem to think they need to strip down develsh to a state where it's not an issue to be installed by default on each consumer device02:54
javispedrothat's not entirely true02:55
javispedroyou technically need a token to install other packages02:55
javispedro(in fact, it's granted to develsh in beta2)02:55
javispedrobut, even if that were to be the case, the solution is quite simple. _ask for a friggin password_02:55
javispedroit's not been a problem in way more secure unix boxen for _ages_02:56
DocScrutinizer"they" are completely denying the difference between a developer device and a target device anyway02:56
DocScrutinizerthe standard answer is "this is not a workstation, this is a user device" - my reply each time is "look what's printed on the back of the device!"02:57
DocScrutinizerjavispedro: (ask for password) don't preach to the choir :-)02:57
DocScrutinizerif it wasn't for "outsourcing" admin powers to OVI QA, the whole aegis thing was completely void and useless. Unix has all the needed methods to deal with local auth based administration02:59
DocScrutinizerand always had03:00
javispedroyes, but it's painful03:00
javispedroask any ACL fan around03:00
DocScrutinizerbut the TC concept isn't the answer to the annoyance of ACL administration03:01
DocScrutinizerthe TC concept is about outsourcing admisistrative powers to some "higher instance" (thank you daddy!)03:02
berndhsit's the industry culture, going back to the days of government-owned phone companies03:02
SpeedEvilI do idly wonder if there is a monopolist concern03:03
SpeedEvilLook at what ahappened to IBM in 1965ish03:03
SpeedEvilThe market would be a lot healtiuer if hardware and sotware were decoupled.03:05
berndhsyes but on the other hand, look at what didn't happen to oodles of other industries, in many countries: health care, trains, alcohol03:05
berndhscontrolled markets are alive an well03:05
javispedrooh my, look at what slashdot is going to do today03:06
javispedrolook at the comments03:06
javispedrowill be a fun day tomorrow, better restock popcorn03:07
javispedroin the meanwhile, MS says that win8 apps will also be walledgarden, so it's the end of computing as we know it.03:09
javispedrotoday I'm in such a weird mood I'm going to say, go for it. let's see this entire thing roll down the mountain until it either explodes or crashes03:10
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BrettQso...the beta2 update breaks being able to disable aegis?03:50
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DocScrutinizerBrettQ: see backscroll URL - javispedro won set point 204:08
berndhsthis is just great, apt-get install mypackage, says everythings fine, but nothing installed04:10
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BrettQDocScrutinizer: thanks, will check it out. I havent updated yet.04:38
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emanhmm. Beta2 has broken my access to the GPS.06:15
emanAnyone here using PositionSource element in their app under Beta2?06:16
berndhseman: haven't tried it yet06:22
berndhseman: check me middle of tomorrow :)06:23
emanberndhs: okay, thanks :)06:24
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BrettQDocScrutinizer: read backscroll, but I don't see anything specific on how to disable aegis with the new update06:48
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BrettQand I was being so productive until I saw there was an update...06:49
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* DocScrutinizer WB everybody10:53
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Venemo_N950I found a new bug in 34-211:17
Venemo_N950no matter how many times I merge my contacts, I always find duplicates that weren't there before11:18
Venemo_N950hey DocScrutinizer51 :)11:19
rantomVenemo_N950: It duplicates contacts but not the data within the contact?11:21
rantomAs in the earlier FW I merged contacts and the data within contact was duplicated11:21
Venemo_N950rantom, I dunno, sometimes it duplicates data too, sometimes it just unmerges the fb contact from the phone contact11:29
Venemo_N950but it's NOT 'ok'! it's very annoying.11:31
dm8tbrwho knows if that exists in the sales firmware too. if yes it should be put forward.11:34
dm8tbrI guess we don't have people with an actual N9 yet?11:34
leinirWooh! my local mirror's been fixed - beta2 firmware download in progress :)11:35
artemmahave N9 sales started eventually?11:35
artemmaWasn't Sep 15 the date for several countries?11:35
Venemo_N950dm8tbr, yeah we have: djszapi, frals, achipa, and other Nokia guys11:36
dm8tbrI meant sales firmware ;)11:36
djszapido not expect anything from Nokia, I would say. Almost no resource working on Harmattan11:36
djszapihard to find a person to press an "Ok" button :)11:37
Venemo_N950djszapi, that's sad news :(11:37
Venemo_N950djszapi, esp. considering that the device is not even released yet11:37
djszapisad, but the conscious beheading is known (that is why I personally changed to another platform)11:37
* dm8tbr thinks Nokia's internal personnel decisions have no place on this channel. ktx11:38
djszapi11 of febr. is so internal personnal xD11:39
artemmaoh well, after preorders full within a couple of days, I guess @selop has to fire even more people to make sure N9 is not a success11:39
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djszapiVenemo_N950: also, it is not just gtlak miss, you cannot chat in facebook either11:41
djszapiI guess the same with twitter. Actually, that was a quite understandable decision to truncate those.11:42
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Venemo_N950artemma, meh, yeah.11:43
Venemo_N950very sad IMO11:43
djszapiactually, it is not even a customer device, so there is no need for that with development.11:43
artemmain fact this "strategy" just tears my head in halves :)11:43
djszapi(but the main point of those decisions is somethign different in my /guess/)11:43
Venemo_N950djszapi, I can chat in facebook I think11:43
artemmaI mean I disagree, but can understand move to WP7, place of N9 in it I cannot11:44
artemmaI wonder how many end users get at least something about it :)11:44
Venemo_N950I could even with the previous firmware11:44
djszapiVenemo_N950: the person who made the SDK told me, he eliminated the relevant package.11:44
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djszapiyes, but you should not be able with this release, that is the point.11:44
Venemo_N950djszapi, hmmm11:45
Venemo_N950lemme check11:45
djszapiactually, the google localization package is on the device ;)11:45
djszapifunky funky ;)11:45
Venemo_N950djszapi, I can go online with facebook chat, I can also see the green rectanges in the contacts app11:46
djszapiVenemo_N950: so can you chat ?11:47
Venemo_N950djszapi, come online and I'll try to chat you11:47
Venemo_N950djszapi, it says you are offline, but I sent you a 'hello'11:49
djszapiI am online, did you get my response ?11:49
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djszapiI see what you wrote :)11:49
Venemo_N950djszapi, yee11:50
djszapihehe, he did not truncate it well then :)11:50
mecedjszapi, what chat should be truncated?11:51
djszapiVenemo_n950: I think this truncation is because of the fact, it is not sales release yet, just beta211:51
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djszapiThey would like to have some wow-effect at the publication of that, not much left though imo :)11:51
mecefacebook, gtalk and skype all work fine in the beta2 firmware11:51
Venemo_N950djszapi, if that really is the case and this is how Nokia "respects" their developers, I can already see how the others will react11:52
mecekhertan, o/11:52
djszapiVenemo_N950: N950 was /never/ about developers.11:53
djszapisorry, Harmattan11:53
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Venemo_N950djszapi, hmmm?11:53
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djszapiunneccesary to mix the developer needs into the platform if it was created only for user needs.11:54
djszapiVenemo_N950: at any rate, why do you need gtalk for development ?11:54
Venemo_N950I do not11:54
Venemo_N950but others would appreciate if the device were actually usable :)11:55
meceI understand absolutely nothing about this discussion Venemo_N950 and djszapi. What is truncated and how does nokia not respect developers?11:55
djszapiVenemo_N950: what is written on the back of the device ?11:55
Venemo_N950djszapi, that is not the point here.11:56
djszapiyes, that is the point of that device.11:56
meceVenemo_N950, what are you upset about? (Aside from the contact troubles)11:58
Venemo_N950I don't like complaining, so I won't repeat myself11:59
khertanand what is not anymore written in the windows background ;)11:59
* khertan is joking11:59
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meceVenemo_N950, I read the recent backlog and it made no sense, so I was just curious. I think my n950 feels pretty complete with the latest update12:02
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maxwgtalk? skype?12:06
maxwI think they're the only things that are keeping my sim in my n90012:07
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djszapimaxw: I would not like to cause any lethargy for you, but I am not sure there will be any person after the sales release to press the "Ok" button to generate a new image, if it was okay from the law point of view for gtalk, skype and others as well.12:09
Venemo_webchathey again12:09
maxwI think the same argument can be made about many features they *have* deemed to include...not sure why no gtalk or skype. It keeps me from being able to test my application fully in day-to-day use :/12:09
djszapimaxw: you need gtalk Ui for testing your app ?12:10
mecemaxw, gtalk and skype work12:10
maxwI need it to be able to use it as my only device - not keen on carying two devices around.12:10
djszapiI mean the account plugin Ui12:10
maxwmece, they do?12:10
djszapimaxw: you have developer device, not consumer12:10
djszapiand you can still use mc-tool12:11
maxwdjszapi: you think I don't know that...12:11
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: I mean no disrespect towards you, but do you really not understand this, or you just enjoy arguing?12:11
djszapimaxw: if you know, why do you expect consumer  device ?12:11
mecemaxw, yes, but you cant make outgoing calls without the account plugin12:11
djszapiVenemo_webchat: I do not understand why you expect consumer device from a developer device.12:11
maxwmece: I just want IM so I can chat...12:11
maxwdjszapi: you can't think of any reasons?12:12
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: OK, if you are interested in my answer to that, I can tell you.12:12
mecemaxw, ok, I managed to get skype working too yesterday. here's the howto:
maxwmece: thanks! I'll give that a shot. Then perhaps I can use it as my only device and I'll be able to properly test my app - *and* be more confident that the device will be successful and worth my time.12:14
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: are you?12:14
djszapiVenemo_webchat: sure!12:14
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: ok12:14
Venemo_webchatI can't speak for the rest of us, but my thinking is this:12:15
Venemo_webchatso the deal with Nokia was this: I develop a couple of FOSS apps for their new platform for free. in return, I get a loaned device.12:16
djszapiloaned /developer/ device.12:16
Venemo_webchatso I work on their platform for completely free, in return I think I can rightfully expect the device to be able to be used as an everyday device for a few months.12:17
mecedjszapi, just let him finish, and correct whatever you think is wrong afterwards please12:17
maxwdjszapi: why do you think it's ok for a developer device to have less functionality than the consumer device?12:17
djszapiVenemo_webchat: see my correction above.12:17
DocScrutinizerWTF?! [2011-09-21 10:43:15] <djszapi> actually, it is not even a customer device, so there is no need for that with development.   [2011-09-21 10:54:04] <djszapi> unneccesary to mix the developer needs into the platform if it was created only for user needs.  --- SO what *IS* N950+beta2 now? No customer device with a FW that's not for devels either??12:18
Venemo_webchatboth of us know that I probably won't get rich, even if I put my FOSS apps on ovi store.12:18
spenapbut, any of you is actually enjoying while developing?12:18
spenapbecause I am12:18
sandst1me too12:19
Venemo_webchatso the least they could do to compensate me for my FREE work (which benefits Nokia, if anyone), is that they give me those couple of packages with which I could use my device like an end-user.12:19
djszapimaxw: I explained my reasoning for that above ;)12:19
Venemo_webchatthat's what I think.12:19
Venemo_webchatI can live with a few bugs12:19
Venemo_webchatand I must admit that 34-2 is a lot better than 22-612:19
djszapiI disagree, but I keep your opinion in respect.12:19
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: if I were a profit-oriented company intending to make money with my apps, then your reasoning would be right.12:20
Venemo_webchatbut I'm not a company, and I probably won't make any money with these apps12:20
djszapimaxw: namely:
djszapimaxw: this is quite fundamental marketing strategy..12:21
djszapiVenemo_webchat: I think you can also read my reasoning above ^12:21
mecedjszapi, so nok doesn't want us to show the world the nice features before the N9 is out in the open?12:21
Venemo_webchatso, in my eyes, this developer program is really about giving a device to the developers who otherwise couldn't afford it. in return, these devs develop a couple of apps, and everyone's happy.12:22
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: yeah, I read your reasoning :)12:22
djszapimece: rather obvious in product publications yes12:22
mecedjszapi, makes sense. So then I can expect to get everything once N9 is in stores?12:22
djszapiVenemo_webchat: they wanted to give you the device to make them benefit, they did not want to satisfy you apart from that purpose. You accepted it by signing the contract.12:23
Venemo_webchatlet's hope so12:23
djszapimece: I also said the answer for that question above ;)12:23
mecedjszapi, I missed it, was it yes or no?12:23
DocScrutinizercontract? which contract?12:23
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: yeah, but I didn't think that "they did not want to satisfy you apart from that purpose" part.12:24
mecedjszapi, k then. Thanks12:24
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: so anyway, I can understand the decision from their viewpoint12:24
djszapiVenemo_webchat: that is a good progress, few minutes ago you said I am just arguing :p12:24
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: I asked that, and didn't say that.12:25
mecedjszapi, Venemo_webchat, a good idea is to drop the subject once you agree tho.12:25
Venemo_webchatbut I probably could not afford to buy an N9 anyway. so that's it for me :)12:25
Venemo_webchatmece :)12:25
meceVenemo_webchat, what's "it" for you?12:26
Venemo_webchatmece: the reason why I agreed to this developer program :)12:26
djszapiVenemo_webchat: the fact is that, I would actually be happy because they still provided much more than needed for development.12:28
djszapiI am trying to be optimist for sure ;)12:28
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: indeed, that's why I said that 34-2 is a lot more likeable than the previous one12:28
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: can I ask you something about Aegis? (not intending to start a flame war, just a question)12:29
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: there is a package called 'aegis-dev-mode' in the repo, which claims to enable the running of binaries without packages.12:30
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: is that right?12:30
griVenemo_webchat: MohammadAG was able to enable relaxed exec somehow but did not tell how since he sait it was not his idea12:32
djszapiwe could not reproduce that yet...12:33
meceVenemo_webchat, that package is the one with the relaxed exec thing. It doesn't work with new firmware tho.12:33
mecethe package is preinstalled12:33
Venemo_webchatnope, it isn't12:33
griAnd did upgrade via dist-upgrade, nothing changed12:33
djszapimece: nope, it is not12:33
Venemo_webchataegis-dev-mode package doesn't contain the 'aegis-.developer-mode' binary.12:34
djszapiyes, that comes from the aegis-enabler12:34
grionly docs12:34
Venemo_webchatso that's why I'm a bit confused about it12:34
mecedjszapi, well it's installed on my device and I didn't install it manually12:34
meceunless it was in some of the dev mode meta packages12:34
djszapimece: yes, that is a different thing12:35
Venemo_webchatso djszapi, will this stuff enable me to run my binaries? if yes, can you please tell me how?12:35
meceVenemo_webchat, no.12:36
djszapiVenemo_webchat: can you please give me some minutes firts ? :p12:36
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: sure12:36
djszapiVenemo_webchat: sorry, I cannot help right now, my apt-get is broken for some reason here.12:38
Venemo_webchatdjszapi: OK, it's not urgent12:38
Venemo_webchatmy N950 doesn't want to connect to the SDK via wifi anyway12:38
Venemo_webchatit rejects the password12:38
griWith beta2 it is still possible to login as user, phew :) The separation between developer and user is stupid since developer can't see users' accounts12:40
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Venemo_webchatis it possible that the SDK connection tool gives me a wrong IP address?12:41
griYou can always run ifconfig in terminal12:42
Venemo_webchatno I can't12:42
Venemo_webchatthere is no ifconfig on N95012:42
grioh, I thought there was12:42
Venemo_webchatthere was on the N90012:43
achipasbin might not be in the default path12:44
achipajust saying'12:44
Venemo_webchatachipa: yeah, that works12:44
* gri wonders when SDK Connectivity Tool will remember the ip address I entered manually, it resets that every time :/12:44
achipaVenemo_webchat: as for wifi connection, it depends on the IP, it has to be from the private range12:45
Venemo_webchatok, it's the correct address, but it still rejects my pw12:45
achipa192.168.* or 10.* IIRC12:45
djszapi/usr/bin:/bin only, mmm12:45
achipaotherwise it works just fine12:45
Venemo_webchatanyway, I gotta leave now. will be back in a couple of hours.12:46
* RST38h discovered "developer packages" list in developer mode settings today12:46
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djszapiVenemo_webchat: I could not install aegis-dev-mode, but it is just a debian folder anyways, not sure how it could take effect on security things like running a binary12:50
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djszapiimo it is just a left-over in the SDK12:50
griRST38h: You mean the things like debugging and utilities?12:52
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artemmaMy code fails to open file in /usr/share for writing13:05
artemmaisn't /usr/share supposed to be accessible for all the sane processes?13:05
artemmaand I need some universally accessible folder because sometimes my code is to be run by user, but sometimes maybe by root13:07
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artemmaah, ok, I don't get something basic in file output13:08
artemmacan't open file even in the home folder13:08
artemmaQFile file("~/timedtester.txt");13:08
artemma    bool b = | QIODevice::Text);13:08
artemmaif(!b) {13:08
artemma        qWarning() << "Failed to open debug file for writing";13:08
artemma    }13:08
artemmaWhat's wrong with it?13:08
djszapiwell, first you would like to avoid "~"13:09
djszapisecond, root cannot touch user home folder for instance13:09
artemmahmm, what if I don't know who the current user is?13:09
artemmain fact I don't care who he is. For right now I just want some location to write debug prints to13:10
artemmaregardless under which user it's executed13:10
djszapiartemma: you do not need to know, Qt knows that for you.13:10
artemmadjszapi: ?13:10
ph0buse QDesktopServices::storageLocation()13:10
artemmaah, you mean that13:10
djszapistorageLocation is buggy..13:11
artemmatrying homePath now13:11
artemmamay produce several files if run by several users, but I can live with that for debugging purposes13:15
artemmawhat is homePath for root?13:15
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artemmaand then I fail to write to file :/13:24
artemmawell, file is created and grows.. like one byte per operation13:25
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artemmaI guess I don't know Qt's file IO well13:25
artemmaQFile file(debugFileName);13:25
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artemmaQTextStream out(&file);13:25
artemmaout << fullStr;13:25
artemmaSomething very wrong here?13:25
djszapiwhy not just file.write ?13:26
artemmasame fullStr prints well to qWarning()13:26
artemmaonly because QTextStream was present in the first example I found on web :)13:26
artemmaso QFile should be able to accept normal QString?13:26
artemmawell, something is writter13:28
artemmals -l shows 30 bytes13:28
artemmabut "more timedtester.txt" shows nothing13:28
djszapiwhere did you open the file btw ?13:29
artemmahomePath() +"/timedtester.txt"13:29
djszapiyou did not show the open line.13:29
* artemma just figured that root can't delete file in /home/developer13:29
artemmabool b = | QIODevice::Text);13:29
djszapihave you tried to put and endl at the end ?13:30
artemmathat was supposed to be the next step13:30
artemmawill try now13:30
djszapiroot cannot delete in other users' dir.13:30
djszapi"by default".13:30
artemmaeven under relaxed-exec?13:31
djszapirelaxed-exec is different.13:31
artemmahmm, then how do I clean debug file?13:31
artemmaonly by logging under the correct user?13:31
djszapieither correct user, or with proper credentials.13:32
artemmasu developer tells me that operation is not permitted13:33
artemmahooray! endline helped! :)13:33
artemmaapparently more expects it for some reason13:33
djszapiartemma: I would drop the QTextStream and endl, and just one write()13:36
artemmaI use write() only right now13:36
leinirhmm... looks like mtp interferes with the flasher... had to uninstall it temporarily to get the flasher to start doing its thing13:42
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vladesthow to install .deb from BB ?13:49
djszapibb as in busybox ?13:50
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vladestbb as big brother aka PC13:53
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fralscopy to device, open terminal dpkg -i MyDocs/name.deb?14:00
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vladestis is possible to access device currently in SDK mode?14:04
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artemmahey! Have they removed gconftools2 from Beta2 firmware?14:10
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w00tit's gconftool-2, and no14:12
SpeedEvilartemma: have you seen the developer tools?14:12
SpeedEvilartemma: go to settings -> security -> developer mode, and under the ticked devmode switch after a reboot are lots of instlall buttons14:12
SpeedEvilFrom tcpdump, to valgrind, to doom II14:12
SpeedEvil(I may have made up the last)14:12
artemmayeah, it's gconftool-2, thanks!14:13
* artemma is staring at two nearly identical projects. Yet in one of them QDBusMessage cannot be found14:29
artemmaok, solved. not sure how, but solved :)14:31
artemmaachipa: are you here?14:36
artemmaachipa: I've got a compilable, runnable, [relatively] clear and not working timed example for you :) Would be cool if you had time to look at it14:37
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MohammadAGhidden feature in the update14:46
MohammadAGcalendar icon reflects day14:46
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artemmawow, indeed14:46
artemmaso that's MeeGo's response to widgets :)14:46
MohammadAGor it's always been 2114:46
artemmato home screen widgets I mean14:46
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hiemanshuthe way apple does it? :P14:47
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mecewell there are acutal widgets too, in the events screen. The weather thing14:50
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: from the look of it, seems like a changing calendar14:52
MohammadAGhiemanshu, I think it just symlinks images14:52
hiemanshuMohammadAG: /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/icon/icon-l-calendar.svg14:54
hiemanshuMohammadAG: hah, /usr/share/themes/blanco/meegotouch/icons/icon-l-calendar-{01..31}.png :D14:57
MohammadAGyeah, expected that14:57
MohammadAGwhat if there happens to be a 32 day month14:57
MohammadAGthey didn't think of that eh14:57
hiemanshuanyways, got a doctors appointment14:58
hiemanshubecause in a fe whours14:58
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emanWeird... GPS now working in beta2 after entering in Ovi account details and reboot15:00
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achipaartemma: send it15:38
artemmaachipa: I don't know your email address15:39 is always a good guess :)15:39
Stskeepsstephen.elop, got it15:40
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achipathat's a good one, too15:40
artemmaStskeeps: actually it may work :) Except it will get to his secretary15:40
artemmaachipa: sent15:41
achipagot it15:41
artemmacool! :)15:41
* artemma shivers in hope :)15:41
achipaboy do these mails travel fast nowadays15:41
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artemmathere may be a special direct link from google's smtp to major providers such as.. nokia?15:42
achipaI'm leaving shortly so pretty sure this won't happen today, but as long as it's in my inbox it's not forgotten :)15:42
MohammadAGunless it's spam? :P15:45
artemmaAttila eats spam for breakfast :)15:45
MohammadAGmust be some bad diet he's following then15:46
MohammadAGor tmo's a morning habit for him15:46
npmeman -- re "gps now working in beta2" -- so do you mean the GPS requires ovi account??15:50
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npmthe reason i ask, is on beta1, i can't get a gps lock in my app unless i'm online15:51
npmbut on the other hand, the drive and maps application seem to be able to maintain GPS lock w/o being online15:51
npmanybody know how my app can be offline and get GPS from PositionSource ?15:51
ph0bI used GPS in an app that I ran in beta1 and I used it offline without issue15:52
npmis it a QML GPS app or a C++ one15:52
npmi thinnk my QML one is missing some boilerplate startup stuff like initing QGeoPositionInfoSource::createDefaultSource()15:53
npmany change you could point me to your sourcecode (GPL pref) so i can see how it's done15:53
npmi read somewhere that the GPS needs to go online to get nearby satellite information or somesuch, but there's a way to tell it to just search for them15:55
ph0bsure, give me your email adress in private15:55
npmcool thx!15:55
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* npm hates this message 'dpkg: status database area is locked by another process'16:01
fralspkill pkgmgrd <316:02
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leinircrappy crap crap... flashing fails all over the place :P non-functional n950 now...16:08
nibblerleinir: which NOLO/flasher?16:09
npmactually pkill pkgmgrd and rebooting didn't help16:09
Stskeepsleinir: flash under windows16:09
leinir(boots into upgrade mode, though, so hope it's fixable)16:09
npmso it's a morning of fail here as well (hi leinir)16:09
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leinirStskeeps: yeah... no windows boxes to hand, until house mate gets home :P16:09
leinirone is left wondering if the linux flasher was tested on a modern distribution at all... a 100 ms timeout for attempting to get to play with usb devices is not enough :P16:10
leinir(as well as nonsensical on a process which will take as long as this, a couple of seconds on top of a 40 minute flashing process isn't likely to cause many problems :P )16:11
hiemanshuleinir: what error?16:11
* npm adds ' rm /var/lib/dpkg/lock' to frals' " pkill pkgmgrd " and wins16:11
leinirhiemanshu: Error claiming USB interface: Device or resource busy16:11
hiemanshuleinir: distro?16:12
leiniri'll just have to wait until Mike gets home, i'll abuse his machine16:12
hiemanshuleinir: while true; do modprobe -r cdc_phonet; done16:12
leinirhiemanshu: openSuse 11.216:12
fralsleinir: i have a feeling flasher is used daily by hundreds of engineers on a "modern" distribution ;-)16:12
hiemanshuleinir: keep that running in another terminal16:12
fralsor maybe ubuntu isnt modern anymore :p16:12
hiemanshuleinir: or blacklist that module16:12
leinirfrals: it isn't ;)16:12
leinirhiemanshu: hmm... right, i'll try and see if that might not do the trick, thanks :)16:13
hiemanshuleinir: it does the trick for me on suse 11.416:13
leinirhmm... certainly got past step 1 now - been past that before, but... it could work! :)16:14
leinirThanks :)16:14
emannpm: I'm not sure. The GPS wouldn't return coordinates and maps didn't work either. Even the most simple example code didn't work either. I entered in the Ovi account details and rebooted and it works now. Not sure if it was just the reboot that did it or whether positiond requires an Ovi account at startup.16:15
rlinfaticmt-mcusw_RX-71 -> *very very old proto*, cmt-mcusw_RM-660+RM-680 -> *N950*, cmt-mcusw_RM-690 -> *N9-16*, cmt-mcusw_RM-696, *N9-64*,  cmt-mcusw_RM-716  -> *New device?????*16:15
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fralsleinir: doh ;)16:19
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leinirah, i'm on opensuse 11.4 as well, of course :)16:19
leinirfrals: well, not exactly lulz, this is a pretty obscure issue ;)16:19
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fralsleinir: ;)16:21
leinirBut, it is most certainly yay, if this does the trick :)16:21
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leinirbb5_rdc_cert_read failed16:30
hiemanshuone more with the same issue16:31
hiemanshuleinir: so no matter what it wont flash on 11.4 :P16:31
hiemanshuleinir: use windows flasher on windows :P16:31
leinirit would seem that way16:31
leinirright, i'll just have to wait three and a half hours or so16:31
hiemanshuleinir: spent 8 hours yesterday trying to figure that out16:31
rlinfatigrrr i install 34-2, and now, the nokia account do not work :(16:31
hiemanshunothing ever worked, and used the windows one, and it worked :P16:32
berndhsi gave up trying to flash from Fedora 15 and used meego, works ok there16:32
hiemanshuFedora 15, Latest Ubuntu and openSuSE 11.4, doesn't work16:33
hiemanshufails with same error16:33
hiemanshuStskeeps: ^16:33
rlinfatiubuntu 11.04 work here....16:33
BrettQhiemanshu: thanks for the info, saves me the trouble of downloading this at home16:33
rlinfati( 32 bits )16:33
hiemanshurlinfati: I said latest, 11.10 :P16:34
hiemanshuI'll probably spend some time over the weekend when I dont need a phone to test this out16:36
hiemanshuand figure what is wrong16:36
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berndhsi would guess that my meego system ran the 32 bit flasher, and the fedora the 64 bit one16:38
berndhsalthough that probably isn't the cause of the problem16:38
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hiemanshuberndhs: I tried a 32 bit distro too, no go16:46
rlinfatigrrr the nokia account do not work.... giving back my sim to the n900....16:55
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jreznikhiemanshu: what's the problem in Fedora - it worked for me on F15 but it needed some tweaks16:57
hiemanshujreznik: what kind?16:57
jreznikhiemanshu: blacklisting cdc_phonet16:58
jreznikhiemanshu: what was your error message?16:58
hiemanshujreznik: yes, but you didn't get a bb5_rdc_cert_read failed error?16:58
jreznikhiemanshu: ah, not, different one - bad proto16:59
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hiemanshujreznik: 32 bit fedora?17:01
jreznikhiemanshu: 64 bit, f1517:02
hiemanshujreznik: didnt for me, no idea why :/17:02
hiemanshujreznik: but on windows, worked just fine17:03
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npmberndhs: so for flashing should i use my meego netbook then?17:17
* npm scrolls back and sees that's the case17:17
* npm waits some more to update17:17
* npm needs two n950's :-)17:18
Venemo_webchatnpm: you will need to kill someone to get another17:19
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berndhsnpm: meego netbook worked for me yes17:19
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npmseems like buying an n9 would be a better option17:21
npmnot that i have the $$$ to do that.17:21
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npmis there a program to get n9's to developers?17:23
MohammadAGwe're training commandos to break into Nokia and steal them though17:23
npmdon't all answer in unison :-)17:23
MohammadAGwanna join?17:23
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berndhsyou want to do the tunneling soon before the ground freezes17:24
npmsounds similar to the former option to get the n95017:24
npmor just wait for a chinese unathorized copy :-)17:26
MohammadAGwell no17:26
MohammadAGthis time we're hoping they didn't implement a self WP7 feature in the bootloader17:27
npmactually, a nokia dual boot phone would be a good "split the difference" option17:28
MohammadAGno, the feature would wipe meego and install WP7 to intimidate you17:29
alteregoWouldn't it be cool if Nokia released a phone where you could _chooose_ what OS you wanted on it.17:29
npmbooting into  wp7 incase you have to use it at work, for example. and then back to meego for freedom.17:29
npmit could be sold as a product differentiator over any other windows phones.17:31
npmhowever, the MBA's won't like it because they won't be able to build in the promise luring people in, then locking them in, and then jacking up the rates, which is the only reason why their interested in doing software.... to gaffle people.17:33
MohammadAGalterego, it'd be cooler if switching between them was a swipe away17:39
rlinfatiwiii, now work the nokia account.... using 3g and not wifi ( maybe need the imei for something.... )17:43
* jreznik is thinking about buying N9... as N950 is really dev only device, without signal it's impossible to use it as phone but I really don't want to use N900 anymore as daily phone :)17:45
MohammadAGNokia account works both ways for me17:47
djszapiN9jreznik think it twice17:47
jreznikdjszapiN9: twice?17:48
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GAN900jreznik, the signal issue is really bizarre and frustrating.17:50
fralsjreznik: think about buying two N9s ;)17:50
GAN900Doesn't seem like either of Harmattan's device are going to be home runs.17:51
GAN900N9's got the shitty screen and no keyboard17:51
GAN900N950's got a differently shitty screen, weak reception and no storage.17:51
djszapiN9jreznik indeed or three times17:51
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djszapiN9before buying any N917:52
fralsShitty screen?17:52
MohammadAGGAN900, and a shitty body :P17:52
fralswhat are you basing "shitty screen" on GAN900?17:52
fralshave you even seen it? >_<17:52
GAN900frals, PenTile.17:52
MohammadAGpentile looks bad on paper frals17:52
jreznikfrals: actually I need something for my gf, I bought Veer for her, as it's small nice phone but web os 2 is bad... even the first n950 fw was billion times better :(17:52
GAN900I do a lot of reading17:52
GAN900(on device)17:53
GAN900and PenTile aint gonna cut it.17:53
fralsdunno what impact pentile has, but i know im using my n9 over the n950 because the screen is fucking gorgeous17:53
jreznikdjszapiN9: so the only option is to buy something with wp7, yeah, I understand you... android sucks, webos sucks, ios looks quite outdated...17:53
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GAN900jreznik, was playing with the Veer at the AT&T store the other day.17:53
GAN900frals, halving the resolution.17:53
GAN900Veer is quite a slick little device.17:53
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GAN900If irrelevant these days17:54
GAN900Since people are after smarter phones, no smaller ones.17:54
djszapiN9jreznik i did not say to buy wp717:54
GAN900frals, PenTile really negatively impact the readability of small type.17:54
jreznikGAN900: Veer is awesome but software is really very bad and of course - no support...17:55
jreznikdjszapiN9: so any other option? :)17:55
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fralsnot tried fbreader, but not had problems reading feeds/webpages on device at least17:56
djszapiN9jreznik i do not know your use case, but i am happy with android qt project over there17:56
fralsotoh the font sizes used by platform apps are probably tweaked to look optimal on the display so17:57
fralsdjszapi: looks really good that you recommend people to not buy N9, promise.17:57
djszapiN9think twice != not buy17:58
MohammadAGfrals, can you ship me your N9?18:02
MohammadAGI'll return it, promise18:02
MohammadAGyou'll cover the costs though18:02
MohammadAGalso I want to test the scratch resistance, they say it's good18:02
fralsMohammadAG: i have a feeling i would get a call asking me wtf my proto is doing in .il all of a sudden :<18:04
Venemo_webchatfrals: you could say that you're on a vacation? :P18:05
MohammadAGfrals, you can keep the GPS chip then18:05
MohammadAGit's not like it won't boot up without it18:05
fralsMohammadAG: i have a feeling id break the device trying to remove the GPS ;)18:06
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MohammadAGback to GAN900's sentence then18:06
fralsMohammadAG: im sure it will be available from your local operator soon enough anyway ;)18:06
Venemo_webchatMohammadAG: maybe you could promise frals not to turn on the gps?18:06
MohammadAGshitty body on the N950 - scratchable18:06
MohammadAGshitty body on N9, not disassemblable18:06
MohammadAGI made a word, sue me18:06
MohammadAGfrals, but I don't want to buy it before using the PenTile screen for free!18:07
fralsMohammadAG: doesnt the stores around you usually have devices to try before buying? ;)18:07
MohammadAGfrals, no, only iPhones18:07
MohammadAGoh yeah and dummies, gotta love dummies18:07
fralsconvince them to give you a N9 to try18:08
MohammadAGmy operator doesn't have an N90018:08
frals... just dont run off with it without paying, they generally dont like that18:08
MohammadAGyou know18:08
MohammadAGI'd love a signed letter from you18:08
MohammadAGwith a Nokia stamp18:08
MohammadAGthat I can get that phone from my operator18:08
MohammadAGleave two spaces after N9, wanna add a 50 and take my device there18:09
MohammadAGI've never tried that actually18:09
MohammadAGgo to a store and ask them if they sell N950s18:10
Venemo_webchatMohammadAG: what's the point? they most certainly don't.18:10
MohammadAGVenemo_webchat, well, my operator said the N900 is chinese cause they never heard of it18:10
MohammadAGso I'd like to hear where the N950 was manufactured18:10
Venemo_webchatlol, how ridiculous18:10
berndhsMohammadAG: the cardboard box is made in Finland, according to the sticker on it18:12
MohammadAGanyone tried the code on the N950 box?18:13
Venemo_webchatMohammadAG: I didn't, but according to others, it'll send a tweet18:13
MohammadAGI recall it was a QML twitter app or something18:13
Venemo_webchatyes, you recall right!18:14
MohammadAGdidn't try it, just remember reading it18:15
Venemo_webchatMohammadAG: did you see the pic I sent you on fb?18:17
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MohammadAGno, apparently when the N950's online doesn't "ding"18:17
Venemo_webchatyeah, when a client is there, it won't ding18:18
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MohammadAGjavispedro, we don't ***** ***** **** swear when ******* talking about ***** aegis, ****19:01
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MohammadAGhey, anyone thought of putting aegis on IRCd so it'd return Operation not permitted on swear words?19:01
kkitoMohammadAG: ?19:02
Stskeepswhat, we can't curse aegis anymore?19:02
w00tStskeeps: aegisircd won't allow it19:02
Stskeepsw00t: haha19:02
MohammadAG Stskeeps19:02
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rlinfatiapt-cache show  libqtm-location-patched :/19:06
rlinfatiis a old version?19:06
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kkitoaegis really protect the users :P19:15
Teo`are there any known issues with wifi on the N950 with the new beta2 firmware?19:15
Teo`after flashing I can't connect to a WPA-PSK network19:16
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MohammadAGworks fine here19:16
Teo`MohammadAG: ok, I guess it might be a luser error from my part19:16
Teo`need to figure out how19:16
Tronickkito: An obvious hoax is obvious. The only question is why hasn't Nokia removed it already.19:17
sandst1Tronic: it doesn't have elop as the main character?19:17
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sandst14 copies per game in the store.19:21
sandst1do they even have an approval process..?19:21
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GeneralAntillesfrals, liar.19:29
djszapisandst1: hehe :)19:33
griLet's hope the community downloader is finished soon to ignore ovi :/19:39
ieatlinti'm about to release my new awesome game "onery birds" to ovi store19:42
* gri thinks there is already a bot for automatically creating feed apps19:45
griIf not, I will sell one on ovi ;)19:46
npmwow, i could understand one of the sentences in :-)19:48
djszapinpm: google translator :p19:51
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npmturns it into finglish19:54
fralsGeneralAntilles: teh wat?19:57
djszapinpm: I think it is still understandable, and you certainly understand at least one sentence :)19:58
GeneralAntillesfrals, local operators.19:58
GeneralAntillesHaving N9s.19:58
npmall's i can say ... someone should convince the CEO of Netflix, Leo Apotheker (HP), and SElop to do a startup company together. It might prevent a global recession.19:58
npm(keep em out of the way of progress)19:59
fralsGeneralAntilles: i assume the operators where MohammadAG is from will carry it19:59
GeneralAntillesnpm, can we make them do it on the moon?20:00
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ajalkaneRemember those two überkool guys introducing merger of Maemo and Moblin? The harry potter looking wizard and the spock looking nerd20:04
ajalkaneThey were badass20:04
ajalkaneI wonder whats up, not been in any marketing material recently20:05
Stskeepsone of them, ari jaaksi moved to webos20:06
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ajalkaneThey could come kick all sort of ass for MeeGo again20:06
Stskeepsi'm not entirely sure who's the spock and whos' the wizard20:06
ajalkaneAh... no wonder20:06
jreznikStskeeps: ari jaaksi, the touch of death :)20:07
* ajalkane apologizes, I just realized I'm writing a bit delirious stuff. Fever.20:07
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ajalkaneback to angry birds20:08
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wazd"Floppy" folder in N950's root really freaks me out :)20:14
berndhswazd: they have plans for removable storage after all ?20:15
ieatlintthere's going to be an official n9 floppy disk drive attachment20:17
wazdand cdrom too :P20:18
ieatlint4 speed only though20:18
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RST38hMoo all20:34
npmi have a dumb question: update on beta1 says new versions of "develsh devtools-memory devtools-networking devtools-utilities" are available20:38
RST38hMeanwhile: The HP board happens to be meeting today, possibly to discuss firing the current CEO for failing to improve the company's financial prospects.20:38
RST38hnpm: upgrade.20:39
npmis it wise to update, or are these for beta220:39
npmi meant upgrade20:39
npmso answer yes and phone will still work?20:39
Teo`how do I get the Terminal app back in the beta2 firmware?20:40
dm8tbrenable developer mode20:41
npmwtf Aegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/develsh_1.14+0m6_armel.deb: package 'develsh' already installed from '' -- not replacing it from unknown origin20:41
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Teo`dm8tbr: thanks20:42
MohammadAGyou're installing it from?20:42
npmthe normal places?20:42
npmGet:1 ./ develsh 1.14+0m6 [4,412B]20:42
npmi guess i shouldna done that as root?
RST38hgood reasoning Watson20:47
npmso what user do you run upgrade from if not root?20:47
RST38hno, you do it as root20:47
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npmthen whats "rm: can't remove '/home/developer/bin/': Permission denied"20:48
RST38hok, just flash the system update20:48
npmwell it still works :-)20:48
npmcourse i haven't rebooted yet20:48
npmi think those messages are spurious since '/home/developer/bin/' doesn't exist20:50
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npmsurvived reboot20:56
RST38hif it is already installed, then why shouldn't it...20:57
npmwell i can live w/o the latest develsh and soon i'll just wipe it and start over again. but not today.20:58
npmbut if anybody has ideas on what's wrong w/ and all the kept back pages let me know20:59
fralsnpm: pretty sure apt-get upgrade from 22-6 to 34-2 is not supported20:59
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RST38hfrals:well he is only updating the develsh package21:02
RST38hshould not be a problem in principle, as long as all depends are satisfied21:02
fralsand as long as someone put the right stuff in Depends: :[21:03
RST38hfrals: You are not trying to imply Nokians would putgarbage into package depends? =)21:03
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npmdevtools-memory devtools-networking devtools-utilities  sdk-connectivity-tool got upgraded21:04
fralsRST38h: the case might be that the integration process might allow you to be able to 'forget' to update depends to correct versions... *might* ;P21:04
npmso are the held back pages held back because there's a beta2 dependency not satisfied?21:05
RST38hAegis rejecting /var/cache/apt/archives/readline-common_6.2-2_all.deb: package 'readline-common' already installed from '' -- not replacing it from unknown origin21:05
npmlooks familiar21:05
RST38hI think I know what is going on21:06
RST38hSomeone, please catch RZR and explain to the guy that he is not supposed to upload duplicates of official nokia packages into his repo21:06
RST38hNo matter how hard he wants to have as many packages as possible21:06
RST38hNo, really21:07
wazdheh, after syncing with N950 my N900 stopped to recognize numbers from the phonebook21:07
npmi dont think i have that repo enabled21:07
RST38hHeya wazd21:07
wazdRST38h: o/21:08
wazdRST38h: saw something in the store :P21:08
RST38hmore to come21:08
wazdRST38h: awesome-o :)21:08
RST38hOMG, Harmattan does not let root run nano now =(21:08
wazdAnyone tried to hack this wather widget on the homescreen? :)21:09
RST38hwazd: it is actually not a nokia widget21:10
fralswazd: think it has a dbus interface.. not sure its 'protected' though21:10
RST38hwazd: looks like these "other" weather app guys have got some private info from nokia21:10
artemmatrying to email ilya.dogolazky about timed. Let's see if it helps21:10
wazdRST38h: yeah, same thoughts21:11
frals(dbus-monitor while launching accuweather app should tell you)21:11
RST38hAnyone has seen the elessar guy?21:11
RST38hHe is working on the QMLversion of FBReader21:11
GAN900Works pretty well.21:12
RST38hGAN: Where is the deb???21:12
npmRST38h: this is probably the problem
GAN900RST38h, fiferboy is hosting the one he put together somewhere.21:13
RST38hnpm: ?21:13
* SpeedEvil is annoyed that you can't have C, and MPH from accuweather.21:13
RST38hGAN: U! R! L! U! R! L! =)21:13
RST38hmiles per hallon? =)21:13
GAN900Don't have it handy.21:13
npmfollowing a while back may be the source of dup packages, not RZR's21:15
RST38hwill itwork as a deb repo?21:15
RST38hnpm:well,readline-common is definitely coming from rzr's21:16
GAN900think so21:16
wazdRST38h: since icons for that widget were included in the firmware even before the actual app21:17
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RST38hwazd: yeah21:17
wazdbut there's still "task switcher widget mode" for us :P21:23
RST38hnot really a widget...21:24
RST38hI am sure someone will eventually hack the lockscreen notifications API...21:24
wazdRST38h: better than nothing  :)21:25
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MohammadAGhack it how?21:31
RST38hMohammad: for examplestart observing dbus calls21:31
faenilSpeedEvil: you can have MPH and C in 1.1 version ;)21:31
RST38hsee if there are any leading to creation of a notification box (the transparent rectangular one)21:31
MohammadAGRST38h, I mean to get what21:31
RST38hto get to a method of displaying your ownnotifications21:32
MohammadAGyou can do that?21:32
MohammadAGit's a normal MNotification21:32
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MohammadAGI already do it in Sociality21:33
MohammadAGnow with squircled avatars21:33
faenilheya mark! :)21:33
mlongHello faenil21:33
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* mlong is the author of the AccuWeather app.21:34
wazdMohammadAG: *with some low holywood-style exagerated evil voice* I want that widget dead :)21:34
wazdooooops :D21:34
MohammadAGwell that was something I didn't expect21:34
wazdmlong: and the widget too?21:35
RST38hwazd: heat up the iron!21:35
MohammadAGwhat widget are we talking?21:35
MohammadAGthe one next to date or the on the lockscreen21:35
RST38hthe weather widget21:35
wazdMohammadAG: weather21:35
MohammadAGoh that21:35
* MohammadAG heats up iron with wazd21:35
leinir"You can only have one twitter account"21:35
leinirwow, that's really silly21:35
mlongwazd: Yes, the weather widget too.21:35
SpeedEvilleinir: Indeed21:36
wazdmlong: awesome! :)21:36
wazdmlong: can I have one? :D21:36
faenilwazd: lol21:36
mlongThere are many, many improvements that are in final testing at the moment which will be released soon (as an individual app update, I understand).21:37
wazdmlong: that's awesome, but what about widget? Is it hardcoded?21:37
MohammadAGhe meant can he replace it with his own21:37
mlongThe widget is hardcoded.21:38
leinirmlong: fixing the twitter singleton thing wouldn't happen to be in there, would it? ;)21:38
MohammadAGmlong, in accuweather or meegohometouch?21:38
wazdcrap :(21:38
mlongNo, the weather widget is separate from the twitter widget21:38
MohammadAGmeegohometouch isn't twitter21:39
mlongWhat's the issue with the widget?21:40
wazdmlong: the issue is that we, as developers of community weather apllication, wanted to have this super-power too21:41
wazdmlong: but I guess we can't21:41
mlongAh, I don't know the ramifications of the politics of it.  Then again, as someone who has a vested interest in keeping our app in plain sight, I can't really be considered an unbiased source.  :-)21:42
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wazdmlong: yeah, np21:43
mlongI believe the api used for the widgets is not in the general sdk release, though, for what it's worth.21:43
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npmseems like the easiest way to get "widgets" would be if one could drop QML into the notifications, and have it be interpreted, via Qt.createQmlObject("import QtQuick 1.0 ; <your code here>");21:47
MohammadAGmlong, so basically, it's not hardcoded in meegotouch, but not public either21:47
MohammadAGreversable, thanks :P21:47
mlongMohammadAG: Yes, moreless.21:48
RST38hGAN: Sorry to disappoint, but fiferboy has got the wrong version of FBreader21:50
GeneralAntillesYou sure?21:50
GeneralAntillesMine's from him, it's QML.21:50
RST38hGAN: He appears to be doing a straight port to QML. Elessar's version is somewhat better than that21:50
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MohammadAGwazd, RST38h21:51
RST38hIn his version you can flick pages21:51
RST38hGAN: What "meh"? It definitely beats previous methods of browsing in fbreader21:51
mlongMohammadAG: The widget is part of the accuweather package.21:51
GeneralAntillesUsing volume keys?21:51
MohammadAGmlong, yeah, I know, wxapp21:51
GeneralAntillesGet my screen all smudged up.21:51
RST38hGAN: Beats volume keys hands down21:52
MohammadAGRST38h, wazd go through /usr/lib/meegotouch/applicationextensions/libevents-weather.so21:52
GeneralAntillesFor you21:52
RST38hGAN: ANd yes, it is better to smudge your screen than wear out your volume keys21:52
GeneralAntillesHaven't worn out any volume keys yet.21:53
RST38hMohammad: I doubt disassembling .so is going to be easy =)21:53
MohammadAGRST38h, no, but ldding it is21:53
MohammadAGit's linked to libmeegotouchextensions21:53
MohammadAGwhich is open21:53
MohammadAGthe headers may or may not be different, idk21:53
MohammadAGRST38h, you can make headers21:57
RST38hALSO: /usr/share/themes/base/meegotouch/libmeegotouchextensions21:58
ajalkaneRST38h: root can edit with nano. I edited my terminal toolbar with it to have nice keys for irssi use22:01
RST38hajalkane: not in the latest firmware update, have to go into develsh for that22:02
MohammadAGRST38h, it's an MWidget, why look at the theme22:02
ajalkaneRST38h: I did it in latest22:02
RST38hMohammad: no particular reason just thought there may be something of use there too22:02
MohammadAGno but it looks easy22:02
ajalkaneRST38h: but Im not sure if I did it before or after there came some updates22:03
MohammadAGyou have to take mapplicationextensioninterface.h22:03
MohammadAGmodify it a bit22:03
ajalkaneRST38h: sorry, I used develsh. No idea about root22:04
MohammadAGso it says
MohammadAGand include the new header and the non modified one22:04
MohammadAGthen implement the virtual methods22:04
RST38hOk,so you did use develsh22:04
MohammadAGit seems easy22:06
MohammadAGanyway gotta study, bbl22:06
RST38hgood luck with studies =)22:06
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RST38hGAN: Still here?22:29
RST38hGAN: Get a deb from here instead:
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GeneralAntillesUnconstitutional new patent law22:37
GeneralAntillesLove it.22:37
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GeneralAntillesHeyo, javispedro.22:41
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griRST38h: Isn't the lockscreen notification api only using MNotification? commhistory-daemon which sends the notifications for incoming sms is using this23:00
griwas scrolled somewhere23:00
grididn't notice this was long ago :)23:01
faenilevening :)23:09
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lardmanevening all23:10
javispedroevening lardman23:11
lardmanany ideas about whether backup backs up contacts? Mine seem to have vanished23:11
lardmanhi javispedro23:11
faenilknown issue ç)23:12
w00tthings changed from b1 to b223:12
lardmanoh, drat23:12
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grimine are also gone :/23:22
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Arkenoiso, with new firmware, is there a way to let the phone run unsigned binaries or to sign a binary on demand>23:37
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griNot yet23:44
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* lardman just restored from his N90023:47
alteregoThere is an import, export function in blogger23:47
alteregoRestored what?23:47
lardmansorry, laptop suspended so I dropped out there23:48
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alteregoAh, I went through and sorrted all of mine after restoring the otther day.23:50
alteregoDoes the N950 work with Ovi Suite?23:50
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MohammadAGTwitter has only just now opened up the ability to post a photo via SMS oh engadget, sms?23:56

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