IRC log of #harmattan for Tuesday, 2011-09-13

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GeneralAntillesjavispedro, estimated ship date tomorrow.00:59
alteregoFor what?00:59
* javispedro goes look it up00:59
alteregoN9? :D00:59
artem_so they screwed Kazakhstan :)01:00
artem_for swiss01:00
npmRST38h: thanks for posting that. maybe be directly usable in QML... however, any suggestions on doing distance queries as an SQLite query?01:00
javispedromine says "Est. ship date" yesterday.01:01
javispedrostatus: processing01:01
javispedrowell, yesterday by just 1 minute =)01:01
GeneralAntillesWhere's it shipping from?01:01
javispedroGeneralAntilles: btw, did you read the news about ex-Nokians buying metawatch from fossil?01:01
javispedroso, back to Finland. No way to escape! ;)01:03
GeneralAntillesGoddamn Finns01:07
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* alterego thinks of neat things he can do with bar code readers01:35
alteregoI really need a version for the N900 though, the N950 is a pita to code on.01:35
MohammadAGwish I could get a metawatch :/01:36
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* javispedro ponders whether to make the Watch class a QPaintDevice or not ;)01:39
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MohammadAGanyone know of some cheap US/Europe to other places forwarding services?01:40
javispedroMohammadAG: sure they do not ship to .il?01:41
MohammadAGsays US and Europe01:41
alteregoMohammadAG: I could ship to you if you get really stuck01:42
MohammadAGno Asia makes it even worse01:42
javispedroah :(01:42
alteregoThinking of purchasing one myself01:42
javispedroweirdo TI would not ship to Asia01:42
javispedrotheir real HQs are located in .in after all ;)01:42
MohammadAGNokia counts Israel as Europe though :p01:42
MohammadAGalterego, thanks, I'll see what happens :)01:42
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MohammadAGthat digital one looks sexy01:45
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MohammadAGI'm assuming that since Israel is in the list they ship there?01:49
MohammadAGjavispedro, wait... QGraphicsScene works on the watch?01:52
MohammadAGmight as well port MTF!01:52
javispedroobviously not01:52
javispedrobut I have this idea..01:52
GeneralAntillesYes, everyone here needs to get a MetaWatch.01:57
GeneralAntillesLotsa hackers01:57
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GeneralAntillesJustify my expenditure!01:57
javispedroyou evil bastards, justify mine! ;P01:58
alteregoThey have an accel!01:58
javispedrothe watches themselves are not going to run much, as the uC they have is designed for ultra low power consumption01:59
GeneralAntillesI'd love to see an analog version with a second hand and about a 25mm face.01:59
GeneralAntillesWith a decently highres screen as the face.01:59
javispedrobut they're supposed to be connected to a cell phone, and then kind act as the cell phone's second screen and vibrator02:00
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artem_they will start to ask students take off watches during the tests02:00
MohammadAGoooh, thanks for the idea artem_02:00
javispedrocasio already had a camera watch a decade ag02:01
artem_u r welcome, but I am sure these ideas will come at l=plenty :)02:01
MohammadAGfuck cameras I want google translate :P02:01
MohammadAGHebrew feels like QML02:01
GeneralAntillesJust wait until they have to ask you to disable the retinal projectors in your glasses02:01
GeneralAntillesor your neural implant02:01
javispedroMohammadAG: a camera with builtin monochrome LCD... to see... uh, interesting data.02:02
MohammadAGquestion of the year,
alteregoI wonder what refresh rate you could get over bluetooth to the meta watch02:05
javispedroalterego: yes, I wonder that. Either way, any kind of high refresh rate will kill the battery02:06
javispedroalterego: still, the idea of having to implement e.g. marquee in anything other than QML is probably enough to make this a interesting research area.02:06
javispedro*marquee text02:06
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javispedroany way I can know which areas where damaged between a QPainter::begin and ::end?02:07
* artem_ vaguely remembers some Nokia gadget from several years ago that was showing text messages, mixed calls, had voice dialin02:07
alteregoI actually developed a Qt based virtual matrix form a marquee app a while ago.02:07
artem_was pretty cool, but too much hassle to carry around02:07
alteregojavispedro: n really no.02:07
javispedroso I'd have to implement my own painter engine, that virtually just forwards call to the raster one except measuring damaged area?02:08
javispedrothen overrride end() so that it uploads the damaged area to the watch02:08
alteregoSounds like a good idea.02:08
alteregohandling a 90x90 bitmap should be pretty easy :)02:09
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alteregoon the cpu that is.02:09
GeneralAntillesMusic control would be pretty sweet.02:09
artem_James Bond would use it as a control/display for camera of all the phones in the next room02:10
javispedroalterego: being monochrome, the entire bitmap fills in under 1KiB =)02:11
alteregowith a 2Mbit bluetooth connection we have a nice frame rate ;)02:11
javispedrodoubt the watch bt stack does that02:11
alteregoThe docs say it does.02:11
javispedroin five-minute-battery-life-mode maybe =)02:12
GeneralAntillesThis looks impossible:
javispedrooh noes02:12
artem_*IF* it gets popular, there could be some games that involve both devices. Imaging waving your hand so that a ball from watch screen is thrown to the screen of the phone in the same hand02:12
javispedrothe watch revolution is for some reason starting02:12
GeneralAntillesThat site looks like all fluff02:13
javispedrowill Nokia start watchemo open source project? will we have to move to
artem_Business card exchange by NFC-touch during the handshake ;)02:13
artem_that is if both guys wear watches on the right hand02:13
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artem_Hey, I know the true killer app!02:14
artem_for this watches02:14
artem_and even a slogan for it02:14
artem_"You never loose your TV remote again!" :)02:15
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: up to 3,5 hours battery life =902:16
javispedronice try, though.02:16
javispedroand no vibrator?02:17
GeneralAntilles3.5 hours battery life?02:18
javispedrothough "up to 2 days without BT in standby" which surely means screen off02:18
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javispedroas the liveview or the inpulse...02:18
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GeneralAntillesWhat's the POINT with that sort of performance02:21
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alteregoHaving a watch which displayed alarms from the phone would be cool.02:23
alteregoIf you could use it to dismiss them.02:23
javispedrothat is the point of all of them02:23
alteregoI'd like that app.02:23
javispedrothey vibrate02:23
javispedroon the wrist -- so no way to miss alarms, calls, etc.02:24
javispedrosomething that happens sadly too often with the n950 :(02:24
javispedrobut I personally also want: larger than one day batt life, and preferably always on screen.02:25
SpeedEvilEasy to do.02:25
SpeedEvilAlso doubles as a dumbell.02:26
alteregoYou can move the hands on the analog version.02:26
alteregoTurn it in to a compass or something :)02:26
alteregoThough it wouldn't know it's orientation.02:26
speciale-ink watch would be interesting02:27
SpeedEvilA watch with a B+W raster-display is probably what's achievable02:27
SpeedEvile-ink has issues.02:27
javispedrothat's the metawatch.02:27
SpeedEvilPrimarily that e-ik are bastards that won't sell it to you02:27
SpeedEvilThe other possibility would be a gaze tracking watch.02:29
SpeedEvilThat doesn't work unless you look at it.02:29
SpeedEvilThere are semi-plausible ways of doing this.02:29
SpeedEvilThe eye is a reteroreflector, when focussed on an object02:29
* SpeedEvil needs to do some sums.02:30
alteregoThey have a pretty busy forum02:31
* alterego chuckles02:31
SpeedEvilI don't need more hardware.02:32
javispedroalterego: it's been online since sunday02:32
SpeedEvilI'm resisting zipit z2's at the moment02:32
alteregog'night folks02:32
javispedronite alterego02:33
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GeneralAntillesalterego, only turns clockwise02:35
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djszapithat is more reliable :)09:45
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radiofreedjszapi: do apps require aegis credentials to deal with SSL certificates?09:54
ajalkaneA whee bit on expensive side. N9 presentation today in Elisa Studio at Lasipalatsi09:55
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Stskeepsotoh, excellent reviews, great performance, .. wouldn't you price it high then as well, leaving way for dumping the price over time?09:56
Anssi138there is 30% added smart device in n909:56
Anssi138at least :)09:56
djszapiradiofree: depends09:57
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ajalkaneI would price it high. Maybe not as high as that though, but I know nothing about selling.09:58
Stskeepsthese things usually come with 'perceived value'09:59
ajalkaneBut I do know about buying, and I'm gonna wait a bit,09:59
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hiemanshuI do know about buying too, and I would instead get an M1 for about $400 (Dual Core 1.5Ghz running android)10:26
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Hq`I haven't heard very nice things about android from friends who own cheap android phones10:48
Hq`so I'd be worried about quality10:48
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hiemanshucheap and android doesn't work together10:48
hiemanshuyou can expect much from a 600mhz device really10:48
hiemanshuI have a 1Ghz dual core android, and well I like it10:48
Hq`well.. that xiaomi is cheap (for those specs)10:49
RST38hMemory performance is more important than CPU clock10:49
RST38h600MHz is just fine10:49
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Anssi138politically subsidized10:50
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arfollactually i've always found my girlfriends armv6 600mhz htc better than my 1ghz nexus one10:55
arfollbattery lasts loads longer, screen is brighter everything else works the same...10:55
Anssi138what about browsing?10:59
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arfollbrowsing is a bit slower, loading pages et al, but its just a second more waiting, i dont mind11:00
specialthose seconds add up - it's probably wasted *minutes* of your life!11:01
arfollyes all that time in the pub wasted when we werent quite sure on the difference between a liger and a tigon11:02
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rantomBtw, for Finns:
rantomGod damn it..12:07
rantomBtw, for Finns:
rantomGot my channels mixed up..12:07
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dm8tbrrantom: you're late ;)12:11
rantomdm8tbr: A bit, yeah :)12:12
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javispedroGeneralAntilles, MetaWatch shipped, ships from fake TI HQs in TX12:18
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* MohammadAG grumbles13:03
MohammadAGI have to wait till I get a new prepaid debit card13:03
hiemanshustupid Ovi Store wont let me buy13:04
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hiemanshuMohammadAG: I have one from google :D13:04
MohammadAGhiemanshu, a debit card?13:05
MohammadAGor a metawatch? :P13:05
hiemanshuMohammadAG: well google sent me one for GSoC payments :P13:05
hiemanshuits from citibank13:05
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MohammadAGI need a $210 debit card for the metawatch13:06
hiemanshuMohammadAG: thats what it looks like, and its translucent13:06
MohammadAGpfft, looks like it has a name13:06
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MohammadAGmy card accepts any name13:06
MohammadAGand any billing address13:07
MohammadAGhey... what's Elop's address?13:07
MohammadAGphysical one :p13:07
trxoh :D13:08
MohammadAGprobably somewhere on 1 Infinite Loop13:08
rantomhiemanshu: :D13:10
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vladestconstantly get: DBus error:14:07
vladestRejected send message, 2 matched rules; type="method_call", sender=":1.1116" (uid=29999 pid=14446 comm="/opt/carvcr/bin/carvcr ") interface="" member="latestPosition" error name="(unset)" requested_reply=0 destination="" (uid=29999 pid=855 comm="/usr/bin/positioningd "))14:08
vladest <credential name="Location" /> requested14:08
vladestwhat did I missed?14:08
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Venemo_N950~seen djszapi14:18
infobotdjszapi <~lpapp@kde/developer/lpapp> was last seen on IRC in channel #harmattan, 4h 21m 5s ago, saying: 'radiofree: depends'.14:18
Venemo_N950fuckyeah, my N950 began displaying some pixel errors.14:18
Venemo_N950just out of the blue14:19
Venemo_N950what shall I do with it? send it back?14:19
Venemo_N950will they replace the screen or something?14:20
Stskeepsdoubt there's any replacements tbh14:20
Venemo_N950they can replace with a less faulty N9 too. I wouldn't mind now14:21
Venemo_N950let's hope the N9 is more durable14:22
Venemo_N950then I'm not disconnected... N950 is good to me today... :P14:25
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bedahrHi everybody! I just asked this in #meego and they told me to go here: I'm developing an application for the N950 and have run into a weird performance problem: The application uses around 17 % cpu time when it's active but around 35% as soon as i disable the display14:42
bedahrthis is absolutely, reliably reproducable. Is this a bug in my application (which keeps re-drawing - at least in the overview of all applications), or does the CPU just clock down as soon as I shut down the display...?14:42
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rZralterego: can u publish also the .dsc to .diff ?14:51
alteregorZr: okay, ang on, you gonna put it in your repo? :)14:51
rZrunless if you dont want me to14:51
alteregoPlease do :)14:51
rZrthis will be the last pkg i import for september14:52
rZrmaybe you want to do it14:52
alteregoYou don't get them when you use qt creator ..14:52
rZrlet me add you to the team14:52
alteregocrevetor: source:
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xarcassbedahr: have you tried mem-cpu-monitor? IIRC, it shows both cpu freq and cpu consumption in percents15:00
SpeedEvilbedahr: Please note - I've never done this.15:01
SpeedEvilbedahr: As I understand it, the issue is that in the foreground, the app is doing hardware accellerated graphics. As it goes into the background, the graphics is software rendered.15:02
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SpeedEvilHence the rise in consumptions.15:02
bedahrxarcass: the energy profiler only shows cpu % - not the frequency (as far as I can see)15:02
bedahrSpeedEvil: ahh, that explains a lot15:02
SpeedEvilYou don't care about cpu % - overall - you care about battery usage.15:02
SpeedEvilThe mA/mW graph15:02
xarcassmem-cpu-monitor isn't Energy Profiler - it's CLI utility15:02
SpeedEvillso - why aren't you simply freezing the display when you page away15:03
bedahractually, I just disabled the graphic redraw and power consumption went down drastically... I don't technically need the graphic stuff if the uis is not shown15:03
SpeedEvilOr at least a short time after15:03
bedahrI guess there must be a signal / event somewhere telling me that the app is hidden, right?15:03
bedahrSpeedEvil: trying to find out how to do that right now :)15:03
SpeedEvilAs I said - not done this.15:04
SpeedEvilDue to bloody annoying real-life - my time on hacking the n950 has been regrettably small.15:04
bedahryeah, I can sympathize... only started really developing for it a couple of days ago myself15:05
bedahrbut the sdk (and of course Qt) is so nice, that one can make up for lost time quite quickly :)15:05
bedahrfor the record: there is a QML element called "Screen" that has a "windowState" property15:10
SpeedEvilYou possibly want to paint your window occasionally, if it ould be useful for the user to see it in the task-switcher as updated15:11
xarcassbedahr: you can access this from anywhere by name platformWindow.windowState15:12
bedahrxarcass: ok, thanks, I'll try that15:13
bedahrSpeedEvil: it really doesn't matter that much - it's just a volume display (speech recognition app)15:13
xarcassbedahr: you may search in docs how to use this: there's special chapter dedicated to this issue15:14
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* SpeedEvil sighs at the silly lack of toolbar applets.15:14
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bedahrxarcass: will do15:14
Venemo_N950SpeedEvil, toolbar applets?15:14
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SpeedEvilVenemo_N950: As I understand it - this understanding may be flawed - you can't add to the set of battery meter, signal strength, operator, wifi, clock15:15
Venemo_N950ah, that...15:16
Venemo_N950not sure, maybe there is an api for that15:16
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SpeedEvilI vaguely remember a WONTFIX bug15:17
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Venemo_N950SpeedEvil, do you know if there is a way to fix N950 screen? It began displaying pixel errors15:18
SpeedEvilIn general, screens aren't very repairable.15:20
SpeedEvilWhat sort of errors?15:20
Venemo_N950some pixels are black15:24
Venemo_N950hard to describe, I'll try making a photo when I get home15:24
SpeedEvilSomeone else was reporting that a few weeks ago15:25
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Venemo_N950wut was da solution?15:31
SpeedEvilOther than a replaces dcreen, it's unlikely to be fixable.15:37
bedahrxarcass, SpeedEvil: Thanks for the tips. I'm now down to 0.18W with the display turned off - compared to 1.24 W before :)15:37
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SpeedEvilThere is a small possibility it's due to the GPU.15:37
sivanglol, no discussion that required NDA :)15:37
sivanghi all15:38
Venemo_N950hey sivang15:39
Venemo_N950SpeedEvil, srsly? the gpu is so dumb?15:39
sivanghey Venemo_N950 !15:39
sivangbe right back15:40
SpeedEvilVenemo_N950: It's unlikely. Some hardware faults can manifest in terms of black pixels. However, usually not. Usually if you've got a few black piceels, and no other artifacts, it's a hardware fault in the screen15:40
SpeedEvilhardware or sotware GPU faults can manifest15:40
Venemo_N950SpeedEvil, that's what I thought15:40
Venemo_N950will nokia replace my screen?15:40
SpeedEvilI have no idea.15:40
Venemo_N950sivang, how're you old friend? :)15:42
DocScrutinizerGPU blackpixel artifacts *move*, LCD pixel errors never do15:45
SpeedEvilAlmost invariably, yes15:45
SpeedEvilI have seen one that diddn't15:45
SpeedEvilI have _no_ idea what was causing it15:45
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DocScrutinizerprolly more an addr driver glitch on the video bus15:46
DocScrutinizervideo bus arguably is a part of GPU15:46
SpeedEvilPossibly poor grounding on some balls15:47
SpeedEvilground bounce15:47
DocScrutinizera bad cell in video ram also is possible15:47
DocScrutinizergiven the video ram window *always* starts at same addr15:47
DocScrutinizerwhich I don't see15:47
RST38hWhy not assume a dead LCD pixel?15:48
DocScrutinizerwe did, didn't we?15:48
DocScrutinizer[2011-09-13 14:40:10] <SpeedEvil> Venemo_N950: It's unlikely. Some hardware faults can manifest in terms of black pixels. However, usually not. Usually if you've got a few black piceels, and no other artifacts, it's a hardware fault in the screen15:49
SpeedEvilseif's screen15:50
SpeedEvilVenemo_N950: Does yours look like that?15:50
SpeedEvil17th last month15:51
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Venemo_N950somewhat similar, but different pattern15:53
sivangVenemo_N950: doing good, actually :)15:53
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SpeedEvilVenemo_N950: In a similar area/15:53
SpeedEvilseif did not comment about his screen after that question.15:54
MohammadAGSpeedEvil, that may be the new Developer Edition cryptic coding15:55
MohammadAGbut seriously, just contact dpp.program at nokia dot com15:56
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RST38hAnyone sees anything familiar? =)16:11
Ans5iHappy Frogs 3D ^16:13
Ans5ifur Harmattan16:15
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fiferboyYay, QML colour themes for Harmattan have made it into the official git repo16:19
leinirwooh! :)16:20
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smokuhow do I su to root on n950?16:32
dm8tbrenable developer mode in settings16:34
dm8tbrthen devel-su16:34
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smokuoh. devel-su16:41
smokuand what's the password?16:41
rantomsmoku: rootme16:42
smokui'm in.   thanks guys :)16:42
dm8tbrssh root@localhost works too, but has a smaller/different set of capabilities IIRC16:45
rantomI still don't understand why you can't reboot when as devel-su16:46
rantomNor poweroff16:46
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RST38hThank you for updating your application or Media, AlmostTI, for the Ovi Store. It should be visible in Ovi Store within the next few hours unless you have set a future start date.16:51
kkitoRST38h: are you fsm ?16:54
RST38ham I what?16:54
kkitofms sorry16:55
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fiferboyFlying Spagetti Monster?16:57
RST38hMost likely, yes16:57
StskeepsFlying Monster of Spaghetti? :P16:57
SpeedEvilStskeeps: FMS is the way the FSM is observed by the reverse polish church.16:57
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kkitobecause i was trying some of the emulators that ┬┐you? ported to n95016:58
aleksander_mtoo many pastafarians around... :-)16:58
DocScrutinizerSpeedEvil: like kernel-power?16:58
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jreznikaleksander_m: count me too!17:04
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leinirAnybody else been asked to accept terms and conditions for ovi on the n950 today?17:42
cpscottileinir, nothing so far..17:43
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jreznikleinir: I was asked17:56
leinirright, glad to know i'm not the only one at least ;)17:56
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kkitoleinir: I was asked too18:44
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DocScrutinizerI'm just waiting for the final firmware to reject any software source other than OVI store. Hell how else would Nokia get close to what iPhone does?19:19
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DocScrutinizerbut we already got that, no? "Multitasking? Only available for genuine PalmOS, errr iOS apps" wait, that's not been multitasking, on aegis, that's been errr... root?19:24
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DocScrutinizeryou're aware that Nokia can change security policies any time they want, to whatever they like. And there'll be no way to continue to use N9 if you try to opt out from the new policies forced down on you19:27
StskeepsDocScrutinizer: who are you speaking to?19:28
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Arkenoiappears that harmattan client is significantly less stable than fremantle one20:24
Arkenoiand it mostly affects outgoing calls20:25
fralsand you are drawing this conclusion from preproduction software and a very limited quantity hw, right?20:28
Arkenoisip client i mean20:29
Arkenoiyes :-)20:29
Arkenoigiven nokia generally is not interested in harmattan bug reports :-)20:30
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berndhsyou mean the pre-production version that's not for sale is less stable than the product that's been in the field for a few years ?20:32
artemmaHas anybody worked with Maemo::Timed? I am trying to schedule an action, all the result codes seem to be fine, but action isn't happening20:33
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alteregocrevetor: ping21:17
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griGrrr, how are we supposed to combine qml and c++ if they make all qml wrapper classes private and don't export them ... have a QContact in c++ but can't map it to qml ...22:35
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artemmaHas anybody worked with maemo::Timed? I am trying to schedule an action, all the result codes seem to be fine, but action isn't happening22:45
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artemmastruggling to read the timed docs and sample code. It's been a while since last time I've seen code with so many vars names a, e, a_sys2 and APIs that *set* something, but is called *whenSomething*23:04
MohammadAGanyone's facebook chat account not working23:05
artemmaaha! I managed to show "something" with timed (simulating calendar event)23:15
artemmais there any part of file system writable by any user?23:15
artemmaI am trying to echo something to file when alarm is fired, and I have little idea under which user it happens23:15
griMohammadAG: Do you have any clue where harmattan stores / how it creates the avatar images including the ones with initial characters of the names?23:24
griUsing Qt Mobility to fetch the avatar images results in mostly no images or damaged ones :(23:25
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griOr it is as usual: Fixed in an internal version - got that answer from nokia to all my bugs23:25
alteregoWelcome to Maemo :)23:27
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alteregoErm MeeGo/Harmattan23:27
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artemmasorry for lilly question, but where can root create files?23:29
artemmaI am trying echo "123" >> somefilename inside /home/user and it tells my permissions are wrong23:30
MohammadAGroot can't create files in user's home?23:31
MohammadAGI'm.. stumped23:31
griroot also can't delete files in user's home :)23:31
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artemmait seems so23:31
artemmaI need to find some place where root can create files, so that I could validate my binary is actually executed from alarm23:32
artemmalater though I the same code would need to actually replace one file in /user/home..23:32
griin /root23:32
MohammadAGmore importantly, why can't root write to /home/user...23:33
artemmacan root at least write to /usr/share or something like this?23:34
artemmamaybe I workaround by replacing file there and not in /home/user23:34
griartemma: login as user, do devel-su, do develsh and you should be fine playing around in /usr/share23:34
artemmagri, I need that to happen from my app23:35
grithen you're screwed :P23:35
* artemma can't believe root can't write to anywhere23:36
artemmahey, is there some shell command that shows a dialog on screen or something like this?23:37
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artemmafor now I just need a confirmation that my script is actually being executed23:38
MohammadAGdon't you just miss zenity? :P23:38
artemmaAns5i: shouldn't it be not needed under developer mode?23:40
artemmaI thought that under dev mode everything is allowed23:40
Ans5idoesn't look like it23:42
artemmawell, if I constantly get messages (on screen) "sorry, that file's gone", does it look like echo tried to write to prohibited file and failed?23:44
Ans5ihave you check from syslog that is there errmsg?23:45
artemmai don't know what syslog is23:46
artemmarather limited *nix skills, only some basic shell stuff23:46
Ans5iwhat dmesg says23:47
artemmadmesg: klogctl: Operation not permitted23:49
gri <-- I wonder where nokia loads their contacts from and why I can't get the same information23:49
alteregoDamnit, where do we get maemo5 toolchain from now ..23:49
Ans5iyou btw check the credentials using accli -I23:49
artemmait's not me who's running the code23:49
artemmait's timed daemon23:49
artemmaI guess if it's run under root, my code is also from root23:50
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artemmain the end of /var/sys/syslog there seems to be nothing abt failure to write to file23:51
Ans5iand you are really in developer mode and rebooted?23:52
artemmai was sure, but lemme check23:53
artemmayep, in the developer mode23:53
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