IRC log of #harmattan for Saturday, 2011-09-10

smokuyup. Just found it finally in the manual :)00:00
smokuosc ci, and let's see :)00:02
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macmaNStskeeps: uh the arm6v meego derived core means what? its capable of running on n800?00:03
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VenemomacmaN, yes00:07
alteregomacmaN: among other things.00:13
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macmaNthat sounds seckzee00:47
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* javispedro ponders if depending on the default sorting order of QDir is good practice03:37
javispedrofrom looking at the code I can see it sorts by name unless strictly passed NoSort in the constructor, but that does not seem to be documented anywhere03:38
specialjavispedro: it's not the sort of detail that would change in any forseeable release03:41
specialbut, why not be explicit if you care about it?03:42
javispedrowatching someone else's code and pondering whether he made it parse the config files in alphabetical order by chance or by design :)03:43
berndhsit might sort the entries on the platform you're looking at, and not on another03:44
javispedronah, this is the generic code03:45
javispedroI mean, it's QDir itself sorting them. Not readdir() or the like.03:45
berndhsyeah but you might get strange results depending on locale and such03:46
berndhsso I wouldn't rely on it if it's not specified03:46
javispedrothat is the problem, the "reduced constructor" doesn't say what "sort" gets set to.03:47
javispedrothe extended constructor clearly says "Name | IgnoreCase"03:47
javispedrowhich hints to one that might be the case for the reduced one too, and that's what happens in the code03:47
javispedroI think i'll file a doc bug, since if we are already paying the performance impact it makes no sense not to clearly define the default is to sort.03:48
berndhsi don't like to rely on default settings, in case they change quietly03:49
javispedrobut if they change it now, they'll break this program, and many others :)03:49
berndhspeople have done dumber things03:51
berndhsfor example, QML TextInput doens't have a documented way to turn off autocorrect from QML, that's dumber03:56
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javispedrofunniest thing ever, a slightly diffused black rectangle has appeared over "Desktop Qt" in the target selection step of the New Project QtC wizard04:15
javispedrolike if someone was censoring my ability to select Desktop Qt as a build target =)04:16
javispedroeither way, it's clear it's some weird interaction with my current Gtk+ them04:16
berndhssimilarly, I plainly say "SizeRootObjectToView" and it sizes the view to the root object04:18
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djszapimorning Venemo :)11:07
Venemohey djszapi :)11:07
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spenaprzr, ping11:36
spenaphey: I'm trying to install x11vnc from your repo11:38
rzrhaving issues ?11:38
spenapbut libssl1.0.0, which is pulled as a dependency11:38
spenapdoesn't install11:38
spenap«unable to execute installed post-installation script (/var/lib/dpkg/info/libssl1.0.0.postinst): No such file or directory»11:38
rzrit did when i tried11:38
rzrinstall bash11:39
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spenapHmmm, that's strange: I don't get a candidate for bash11:39
djszapirzr: libdb is removable from your repo11:40
djszapirzr: that package breaks a lot of things11:40
rzrdjszapi: do u suggest to unpublish it ?11:40
djszapirzr: just remove it, please :)11:42
djszapimuch newer version is available from the public SDK11:43
djszapiI mean from the beta.11:43
spenaprzr, I can't install bash: does it come from other repository? It doesn't seem to be in yours11:43
djszapiplease do not put bash therein...11:43
djszapi -> use the "official"11:43
rzrspenap: I used this version also11:44
rzrdjszapi: ok let me overide with that one11:44
djszapirzr: no please11:44
djszapirzr: just remove it from the shared, no need for that there.11:44
spenapthanks, djszapi11:44
rzrbtw i granted you the right to do that too11:44
djszapirzr: and please add you into the maintainer section next time. When I wanted to figure out who maintains it: it has still been the debian maintainer list :D11:45
djszapiI think debian maintainers would be a bit angree if they keep getting harmattan packaging mails :D11:46
spenapok, installing bash did the trick :), thanks rzr11:46
djszapirzr: excellent, how is vacation goin' ? :)11:47
rzrstill not started11:47
rzron thu11:47
djszapiweren't you on vacation in Malaysia ?11:47
rzri was working elsewhere this past week11:47
rzrnot yet11:47
rzrbut countdown started :)11:48
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ieatlintcan someone who is not in the US load this link and tell me what the app is?
ieatlintwas sent the url, but can only got a message telling me it's not available in my country12:15
ieatlintawesome, thanks12:17
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rzrieatlint: Sorry, this item is not available for your country.12:20
rzrin france12:20
ieatlinthah, is it only available in finland?12:21
faenilI'm in Italy and it's available here12:21
djszapiso it is only available for game developers, that is ;)12:22
* ieatlint suspects it's also available in germany12:22
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djszapirzr: we need some packages for kde-runtime btw12:29
djszapirzr: for instance samba.12:30
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rzrdjszapi: paste the list on f.m.o12:37
djszapirzr: got a dedicated link ?12:37
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rzrbtw i did try to build samba12:44
rzrbut it failed12:44
djszapioh ?12:44
rzrlemme check again12:45
rzrany progress on libssh or tls?12:45
djszapinot really, libssh failed with an issue I could not realy figure out that time.12:47
MohammadAGieatlint, Nokia tag writer12:51
MohammadAGNokia Tag Writer is an application for creating Near Field Communication tags. The application allows you to specify the content for a tag, and write this content on to a tag.12:51
MohammadAGoh nvm, djszapi already pasted it :P12:52
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kkitohow much it costs a nfc tag?12:52
VenemoMohammadAG, wtf is an nfc tag?12:53
djszapikkito that application is free12:53
SpeedEvilNFC tags are available for well under a dollar12:54
kkitodjzapi, not the app, the tag12:54
ieatlintthanks though, i was somewhat curious what countries it was available in as well12:54
SpeedEvilDoes nokia tag writer write external tags, or the internal device though12:54
MohammadAGinternal device methinks12:54
SpeedEvilI understood it was internal12:54
ieatlintit writes nfc type1 and 2, and to mifare classic... not sure what you mean by internal/external12:55
SpeedEvilThere is an internal NFC card that can be read by external readers.12:56
SpeedEvilAt least in some nokia devices12:56
ieatlintnot in any current device12:56
SpeedEvilAh - I must have misread something12:56
ieatlintthere's something call tag emulation, where the nfc device acts as a tag and the other device has no idea it's not12:56
ieatlintand there's peer 2 peer (like seen for "angry birds magic")12:56
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dm8tbrdid anyone look at telepathy-haze + sipe for harmattan?13:03
djszapitelepathy-sofiasip is used imho13:06
dm8tbrdoes sofiasip have the SIMPLE stuff?13:07
* dm8tbr googles13:07
djszapisimple as in ?13:07
dm8tbrSIMPLE is one of the SIP messaging protocols13:08
dm8tbrand yes it supports that13:08
dm8tbrthe question is if it supports the microsoft flavour of SIPE13:08
djszapiwell, sofiasip provides actually a full support.13:08
dm8tbrfull support of what?13:09
djszapiwell, that is a completely working SIP client13:09
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dm8tbrboth SIMPLE and SIPE are extensions of the basic SIP protocol13:10
djszapiso, it would be weird if it did not provide SIMPLE really :)13:13
dm8tbrwell funny then that I can't find any mentions on the net that sofiasip would support OCS or LYNC13:15
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MohammadAGdjszapi, does an MSheet have a pannable view by default or am I missing something?13:17
Ans5ii think it has, but it should not.13:19
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MohammadAGAns5i, it doesn't13:33
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djszapiMohammadAG: you are right, it does not =)13:54
djszapiyou can use an MPannableViewport to make it scrollable13:57
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MohammadAGdjszapi, MNotifications, do they have a signal or something to add an action to them?14:30
MohammadAGI'd like to focus the app when they're clicked14:30
MohammadAGand one more thing, is there a library to squircle an image?14:30
MohammadAGoh, need DBus, oh well14:32
SpeedEvilsquircle? Don't know much about pokemon.14:34
djszapisquircling, maybe find out how the browser does it for the bookmarks, and AFAIK the only way to add an action to a MNotification is with the setAction metho14:35
djszapihowever the browser is closed.14:36
djszapiI have the source of the browser, but no time to look into that.14:39
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MohammadAGyeah, and the contacts app does it too14:40
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djszapififerboy o/14:56
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DocScrutinizerthere's no such thing like "a completely working SIP client"15:24
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DocScrutinizersee "Standards Support" for a proper specification of an almost comprehensive SIP implementation - though it's virtually impossible to support *all* possible SIP extension RFCs15:27
DocScrutinizerplus there are some de-facto "standards" that are used / supported / required by a fair number of SIP clients and servers while not actually based on any RFC specification. a good example is >> <<15:31
djszapiwell, you misunderstood that sentence. That clients works just fine without any issue, so it obviously supports SIMPLE. That was actually the point there to interpret it for you.15:31
DocScrutinizer>> Why does Twinkle use “username.domain@local_ip” address in the contact header since version 0.5? <<15:31
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DocScrutinizera LOT of SIP hw does not support SIMPLE and works all fine15:32
dm8tbrthe problem is SIPE (the OCS/Lync protocol) is an extension to the SIMPLE extension of SIP - after all it's by MS...15:32
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djszapino, not supporting simple is not "works all fine" at all.15:33
dm8tbr - that's a metric f*ckton of RFCs15:36
DocScrutinizerhow is not supporting on a client that has no notion about contacts at all any issue qualifying that client for "not works all fine" ?15:37
djszapisorry, I do not have sake for this arguement on Saturday afternoon, let me do something more useful :)15:38
DocScrutinizeryou'd think on a phone without huge display any SIMPLE presence notification is completely useless15:38
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DocScrutinizerdjszapiN9: watever you say, darling15:38
VenemoDocScrutinizer, "darling"15:39
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smokuis COBS borked again?15:46
djszapismoku: no, it is not.15:46
smokuit doesn't build my packages for Harmattan :/15:47
djszapidefine "does not build".15:47
smokumeego builds are running fine, harmattan builds not15:47
djszapidefine "not running fine".15:47
smokudjszapi, I'm in a dejavu state. we were having this conversation already. we clearly do not understand each other, so let's stop now.15:48
smokuif eanyone else is willing to help me, we could continue15:49
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dm8tbrsmoku: core OBS just tanked for links, but harmattan backend is available AFAICS15:54
dm8tbrso building against real meego is b0rken as every weekend, hopefully building against harmattan is not impacted.15:54
smokudm8tbr, i removed harmattan repository from my project, reconfigured it from scratch and the builds just kicked in15:54
dm8tbrah, nice to hear you got it working15:55
smokumeego repos were building fine. even DE. :)  just harmattan repo was moody15:57
djszapiwe can help so much about "not working fine" details.15:58
DocScrutinizerwho's "we" here?15:59
djszapianybody getting such a detailed error description.16:01
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr seems to disagree and act differently16:01
smokualterego, $(findstring did the trick. thanks :)16:01
DocScrutinizercompare >> <djszapi> define "does not build". << to >> <dm8tbr> smoku: core OBS just tanked for links, but harmattan backend is available AFAICS << If you find out about the difference in mindset, then you're on your way to become a better member of this community16:06
djszapiI fail to see your point. Good and fast help start with a correct error description, otherwise the help cannot theoritically be efficient.16:07
DocScrutinizerdm8tbr proved you wrong16:08
djszapifail to see why..16:08
dm8tbr'is COBS broken?' is a valid question to which I had a valid answer which I provided with sufficient detail16:08
djszapi15:46 < djszapi> smoku: no, it is not.16:09
DocScrutinizerdefine "it's not" !16:09
djszapisorry, but asking for more detailed error description than "not running fine" is my habit, and will remain, does not matter you like it or not.16:10
dm8tbrwhich is just fine. it still may be possible to answer a question on a more general level though. if not by you then by someone else. don't discount that option.16:12
DocScrutinizeryeah, it seems for you communication is mainly a process of following habits, that's why frequently >> <smoku> djszapi, I'm in a dejavu state. we were having this conversation already. we clearly do not understand each other <<16:13
djszapiyes, he gave the same "not running fine" error description. I think it is not my qualification.16:13
* DocScrutinizer goes chatting to ELIZA, more fun while same level of eloquence16:16
djszapiif I hear it about OCS, I can imagine about gazillion error possibilities, so not sure what to choose for helping, that is. Please please describe the errors smartly as it is written on the smart question page.16:16
Venemothanks to you guys, I never need to watch a cabaret show16:18
djszapidm8tbr: I have actually more issues on the top of my mind where I could ask just this small question as well and your answer would be irrelevant and off-topic.16:22
dm8tbrdjszapi: in such a case I would actually ask you to clarify your question, yes16:22
djszapiwhy not starting with that instead of a lottery ?16:23
dm8tbrthere are more roads leading to rome than just this one16:23
djszapithe smart question page exists for a reason.16:23
* dm8tbr facepalms16:24
* DocScrutinizer starts printing and selling tickets (chan key for +k printed on the back of the tickets)16:24
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o dm8tbr16:25
*** dm8tbr sets mode: +k key1234516:25
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* dm8tbr is a sad panda16:25
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DocScrutinizermsg chanserv help set mlock16:27
dm8tbryeah, I know. doing this for real was not the point though16:28
DocScrutinizerI actually miss the point in chanserv mlock16:29
DocScrutinizerwell, differntiationg permissions granted via +o from those granted via accesslist16:30
djszapidm8tbr: actually he even said the opposite what you said (just reading back), and you did not give any hint for the "not running" issue.16:30
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dm8tbrdjszapi: can we just agree that you have a different view than I have? and would you PLEASE stop trying to convince me to adopt yours?16:31
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RST38hdm8tbr: A shorter way to say it is "please, shut up already".16:34
dm8tbrRST38h: well most of the time I manage to keep my countenance...16:36
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GAN950Why is it completely impossible to download anything. . . .16:43
DocScrutinizerdefine completely ;-P16:45
dm8tbrdefine 'downloading' ;)16:46
alteregosmoku: np :)16:46
TronicI am having issues with phone calls and text messages not getting thru.16:53
TronicAnyone else seeing this with N950?16:53
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TronicSeems somewhat random and sometimes rebooting the phone allows receiving text.16:53
faenilmy N950 usually gets stuck for something like 2minutes17:03
faenilbefore coming back to life17:03
faenilblack screen, nothing moves, no aswer17:03
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SpeedEvilI've had no problems with inbount texts17:07
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ajalkaneYes, I've had both problems. Black screen and incoming texts/calls18:03
rzrajalkane: i reported a bug and a workaround18:15
rzrkillall calle-ui18:16
rzrbookmark this page :18:16
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djszapirzr: could you take a look at libssh at some point ?18:44
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javispedrook, so fmtx is enabled, and I do not even get the slightlest hint of signal19:14
* javispedro is not surprised19:14
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javispedroonly thing throwing me off a bit is that Tx Ctune is always 0...19:17
SpeedEvilctune is the tuning cap integrated into the chip I think19:18
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SpeedEvilIt's tweakable19:18
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javispedroit's read-only19:19
javispedroand yeah, the C is from cap. But that's all I know about it :)19:19
RST38hMoo javispedro.19:21
RST38hHow are things?19:21
javispedroquite fine19:22
RST38hanything interesting lately?19:22
SpeedEviljavispedro: It's an antenna tuner. Think of it like adjusting the weights on a spinning pendulumn to make it swing more at a desired frequency19:23
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javispedroSpeedEvil: but shouldn't the value, well, change, as I tune other frequencies or even move the device around?19:24
javispedroRST38h: nah, still breaking things as you can see19:24
RST38hHehe, yes, I have noticed19:24
* RST38h submitted a package to the...ah...Ovi Store19:24
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RST38hMaybe should do the same with the rest of packages,dunno...19:24
javispedroRST38h: with the lack of the single repo, many people not knowing how to use OBS, and, well, the influence of symbian people, many people are submitting to the ovi store these days19:25
SpeedEviljavispedro: I'm unsure if it's actually a configurable19:25
javispedroSpeedEvil: as said, it's read-only -- it just shows some register from the chi19:25
MohammadAGjavispedro, plug some headphones and a charger19:26
RST38hjavispedro: I also submit to rm_you's repo19:26
javispedroboth are plugged in, MohammadAG19:26
RST38hjavispedro: frankly, find nothign wrong with having several repos (let us say <=12) rather than one19:27
RST38hPeople not submitting to ANY repo (like elessar with his FBReader/QML) are much more of an issue =)19:27
javispedrosadly, lack of click-and-point UI to add repos...19:28
RST38h...filters out most really stupid people! =)19:28
RST38hBesides, one can write a UI-based tool to manage those sources files19:28
javispedrobut also causes devs to use ovi store for apps that target really stupid people19:28
RST38hAlthough Ovi Store has been used to this puprpose for years now19:29
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djszapijavispedro: the only problem is that with OVI, you cannot push libraries19:30
javispedrosame problem they have on webos, where everything is either satically linked or... gone.19:32
javispedro(for the store)19:32
* javispedro is not going to more tests on fmtx... will upload the .ko and instructions though19:32
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javispedro*statically linked, not satanically linked ;)19:34
berndhsclose enough19:34
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kkitolike in ios, osx, or others oses. I19:43
kkitono prob linking statically the libs i think19:43
kkitois better for abi compatibility, and easy to mantain19:43
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kkitoi know a lot of people that hates dyn libraries..19:44
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javispedroGeneralAntilles: ping19:45
kkitojavispedro, why are yoi not going to work more on fmtx?19:49
javispedrokkito: fmtx was said by nokia to be nonworking plus I have no special interest on it19:50
berndhskkito: static linking by itself is not the problem. Shipping umpteen copies of the same lib, with small incompatibilities, is a problem19:50
javispedroplus, losing all this "I can update the library without touching the app" goodness19:51
kkitojavispedro, and broke some other apps in the update ...19:52
javispedrohey, there are two camps here19:52
berndhsapparently :)19:52
javispedroon one side you have Raymond from MS who explains that even even inserts padding in stack frames in order to keep compatibility with broken applications that call their libraries in the weirdest ways possible19:53
javispedroon the other side you have those who would let those developers burn and would kill all those apps from orbit19:54
javispedros/even even inserts/MS even inserts/19:54
djszapijavispedro: stanically linked :p19:55
djszapierr..satanically :D19:55
berndhsits nice to write applications on top of Qt, it sucks to ship all of Qt with every single little app19:55
djszapijavispedro: one trick is that what I did with cups, is to put all the libraries with the cli util onto ovi store.19:56
djszapiso you can essentially write a cli client and put together with that :)19:56
artemmHi All19:56
djszapicups was otherwise 19 packages :p19:56
artemmIs here anybody who knows a little about D-Bus and gconftool-2? :)19:56
berndhsd-bus sucks, I know that :)19:57
* kkito goint to Goat soup concert :P19:57
kkitosee you19:57
berndhshave fun, dont go home with a goat19:58
artemmdamned, I lost my pastebin password19:58
artemmwill come back in a couple of min after solving it19:58
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artemmbasically I captured DBus traffic that happens during the harmattan wallpaper change (from Gallery)20:00
artemmit's quite simple, just 4 calls or so20:00
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artemmand to my understanding it just sets image file to "" and then back to normal name20:00
artemmbut when I try cloning it with gconftool-2 I somehow manage to delete whole branch or something like that :)20:01
berndhsi tried it directly with gconftool-2, setting the key to some other path + file, works fine20:01
artemmCould somebody, please, have a look and tell what this log actually tells20:01
artemmberndhs, then I definitely misunderstand gconftool-2 syntax :/20:01
artemmwhen I set it to "", if sort of works (—get shows there's nothing)20:02
berndhs gconftool-2 --type=string --set $GCONF_KEY  $NEW_IMAGE20:02
artemmbut when I try setting it back, value stays ""20:02
berndhsexcept i forget what the key is20:02
MohammadAGanyone got an example on a list model in MTF?20:02
MohammadAGwhere I can add content dynamically20:02
MohammadAGjavispedro, btw, if you're wondering, M_OUTPUT_LEVEL=debug to get qDebug() output20:02
MohammadAGapparently you can change what shows on stdout20:02
artemm /desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename20:02
berndhsartemm: yes that one20:03
javispedroMohammadAG: ah, sot hat only happens when you link with MTF?20:03
javispedroMohammadAG: yesterday I did a qDebug() on a QCoreApplication and it worked fine20:03
artemmgconftool-2 —type=string —set /desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename "whateverfilename.png"20:03
artemmhmm, I think I tried exactly that :/20:03
artemmmaybe missed something very basic20:03
berndhsberndhs: then i used an image in /home/user/MyDocs/some/thing/else, which was of teh required size 854x48020:03
artemmshould there be double quotes or single ones?20:04
berndhsdouble quotes in shell., or no quotes at all should work20:04
berndhsand i used a full path name20:04
artemmok, retrying20:04
artemmmaybe I just mistyped something20:04
berndhsi think the orientation might matter, 854x480 versus 480x85420:05
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artemmI was able to set even image of totally different size20:05
artemmbut only once and it was taken into account only after reboot20:06
artemmI vaguealy remember that - there was lots of experiments20:06
artemmwill retry now20:06
berndhsi didnt try d-bus, just from shell20:07
artemmdbus was just for monitoring what the system does20:07
deimosartemm: you should use landscape instead of portrait20:07
artemmdeimos, ?20:07
deimosit works here20:07
artemmwhy should there be two wallpapers? :/20:09
deimos1 for portrasit20:09
artemmare they expected to change on orientation?20:09
deimosand 1 for landscape20:09
deimosbut orientation its not supported , but in tips and triks I think I seen somenting to enable it20:10
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artemmwow, everything works now20:13
artemmexcept for landscape20:13
artemmoh, now I've read your message about that ladscape isn't supported :)20:14
RST38hit is...well... kinda supported20:14
artemmthanks a lot guys! Last time I must have mistyped something, because it didn't work for me20:14
RST38hYou can tell the desktop to treat your application as portrait20:14
RST38hI.e. interpret swipes properly20:14
RST38hYou cannot tell it to rotate your application though20:15
artemmRST38h, actually its kind'a good that landscape orientation isn't working for wallpaper. I don't think wallpaper should know how to rotate, but easy possibility would make the "extra feature" tempting :)20:15
berndhsi have some code that uses the orientation sensor stuff, works except the main QML object doesn't change height properly20:16
RST38hAh, you mean the wallpaper...Everything is different there =)20:17
berndhsah one of my government-dictated environment-saving lightbulbs died20:21
berndhsanother trip to the toxic waste dump20:21
* RST38h offers incandescent bulbs for a low price of $5/apiece20:22
RST38hUp to 100W =)20:22
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* javispedro offers total darkness for an even lower price20:23
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rzrberndhs: i've read that less then 10% of those bulbs are actually recycled , the rest go to your air you breath and water you drink with a litle flavour of mercury20:24
rzrso it's safe to keep them and not garbage them20:24
RST38hOf course the most desirable disposal method would be to eat them20:25
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berndhsyes who doesn't like the refreshing hint of mercury on their pizza20:27
RST38hDoes not necessarily contain mercury. LIkely though.20:27
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berndhsthis one has a big Hg sign on it20:28
rzrdo u know about those bulb manufacturers in eastern europe20:29
rzrthey did produce imortal bulbs20:29
artemmdoh, I never knew where to dispose these lightbulbs20:29
RST38hWell it has been a while ago20:29
artemmstill have one or two dead ones at home20:29
rzractually they did not resists the global market rules ..20:30
berndhsyou send them to you local green party20:30
artemmI am a foreigner in Finland, but a couple of finns I asked didn't know where to put it either :)20:30
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RST38hAnd applied to incandescent stuff. As far as I know, 100% energy-saving neon bulbs sold here are produced in China20:30
rzrI only see one alternative20:30
rzrburn burn burn20:30
rzrfire fire fire20:31
RST38hBe careful what you wish for.20:31
berndhsprobably valuable electronic parts in there, recycled by some kids in Pakistan20:31
RST38hThere should be a starter module, and that is about it. On the other hand, at least some starters contain radioactive elements to ionize the gas20:33
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RST38hSo, with a lot of these used bulbs, you can theoretically build a breeder reactor, collect enough material, make a bomb, play Osama.20:34
berndhshas capacitors in it20:34
berndhsin the starter module no doubt20:35
RST38hWill take a while though, might be easier to just grow a beard.20:35
berndhswell, the bulb i just removed tried to start _after_ I unplugged the lamp20:35
berndhsonly source of power would be the starter20:36
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captainiglooi trying to build EFL packages for harmattan and n95021:23
captainiglooI already package some libs, but for some others i need a binary, and when it's launched in scratchbox, i always get a segv21:24
captainigloothis binary is one build in a previous package21:24
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artemmI am trying to use QValueSpacePublisher for updating gconf, but it doesn't work for me :/21:49
artemmanybody tried it?21:49
artemmI suspect I am specifying path in a wrong way21:50
artemmQValueSpacePublisher publisher("/desktop/meego/background/portrait")21:50
artemmpublisher.setValue("picture_filename", "");21:50
artemmbut then via gconftool-2 I see that value isn't cleared21:51
artemmgconftool-2 --get /desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename21:51
artemmstupid me, just figured it out21:52
artemmSomehow the process of writing a question to forum or IRC makes it very probably the solution will be found within a minute or two :)21:53
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artemmoh, no, the problem is still here21:54
artemmHere's what I am trying to clone:21:54
artemmoriginally from dbus traffic:
artemmand then gconftool-2 commands that reach the same goal21:54
artemmgconftool-2 --type=string --set /desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename ""21:55
artemmgconftool-2 --type=string --set /desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename "/home/user/.wallpapers/wallpaper.png"21:55
artemmsomehow I can't make QValueSpacePublisher do the same21:55
artemmCould the following warning indicate a problem?21:58
artemmNo organization name specified, registering on DBUS with ''21:58
artemmaha, even from the very beginning even QValueSpaceSubscriber returns wrong value (empty when it's not empty)22:05
artemmi must be missing something very basic22:05
artemmQValueSpaceSubscriber subscriber("/desktop/meego/background/portrait");22:06
artemm            qWarning() << "initial value: " << subscriber.value("picture_filename");22:06
artemmNo application name specified, registering on DBUS as 'unknown-application'22:06
artemminitial value:  QVariant(, )22:06
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fralsartemm: isConnected()?22:07
artemmchecking now22:07
artemmI guess it is since I am seeing dbus related messages in the output22:08
artemmyes, it is22:08
artemmhmm, maybe I monitor dbus and compare22:08
artemmwell, my dbus traffic does look different22:10
artemmsomething is coming from my app, but no correct keys are mentioned22:11
artemmhere's what I am getting:
artemmand here;s what I am trying to clone (well, the first part of it for now):
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fralsfrom what you are getting, qvaluespacepublisher doesnt seem to do anything, at all22:14
artemmcan it be related to that I am registered as unknown application?22:14
fralsare you running it as same user as when executing gconftool-2?22:14
fralswonder how much aegis meddles with dbus...22:15
fralsartemm: i would try doing setApplicationName and setOrganization on qapp but it sounds silly if that would be the cause22:16
artemmwhat would I set it to?22:16
artemmsome random value?22:16
fralsguess anything would do22:16
frals(never used qvaluespace* stuff so im just guessing fwiw :p)22:17
artemmwow, i am still registered as unknown app22:21
artemmcould it do something with that i am trying to do it all before app.exec()?22:21
fralsuh, dont think so... could always try something like adding a processEvents() but err22:23
artemmyeah, and sync() is supposed to sync()22:24
artemmout of event flow22:24
artemmthough app registration maybe doesn't happen before app.exec()22:25
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rm_youyeah i am still in favor of setting up one easy to submit repo22:46
rm_youwith several "guardians" who do basic sanity checks to make sure random people aren't trying to submit retarded packages, spamming, etc22:47
dm8tbrsounds like to me22:47
rm_youRST38h / Javispedro: ^^22:47
* RST38h moos at rm_you22:47
rm_youyo RST22:47
rm_yousorry didn't manage to do your thing yet22:47
* RST38h supports the idea22:47
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djszapirm_you: that has been the idea of the community OBS and lbt, xfade's idea. To provide a QA repository in the long run.22:53
rm_youyeah, except not involving the OBS22:53
rm_yousomething like our old dput system22:54
djszapiso you will provide that server farm ?22:54
RST38hand other red tape22:54
rm_youor just FTP22:54
rm_youdjszapi: YES, that is what i am offering22:54
rm_youi have been working on it off and on for a bit22:54
djszapigood luck with that22:55
rm_youi'm not just complaining, i'm trying to drum up support and maybe get some help22:55
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rm_youRST38h: your stuff is loaded22:56
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djszapirm_you: what is wrong with obs which will not the problem with your reinventation ?22:56
RST38hrm_you: thanks =)22:56
djszapi* not be22:56
djszapiWhat is the architectural difference that cannot be fixed in obs ?22:57
djszapiIs there a wikipage about that what you would like to do so that others can read and decide whether or not to join ?22:57
rm_youthat OBS requires everything to build in OBS22:57
rm_youi need to make one, that is a good idea22:58
djszapithat would be the negotiation starting point.22:58
RST38hdjszapi: As you are obviously not going to join,why ask?22:58
RST38hAnd what negotiation are you talking about?22:58
RST38hNobody is negotiating anything22:58
artemmfrals, in case u r interested in what happened next. I tried reading gconf after app.exec() (on timer signal), app still gets registered as unknown app and QValueSpaceSubscriber still doesn't read anything23:01
djszapirm_you: are there ready-made applications for server farm task distribution ? Will you write an own script for those purposes ?23:13
rm_youserver farm task what?23:15
rm_youit's just a repository23:15
rm_youi'm not talking about a builder right now23:15
rm_youjust a repo23:15
rm_youand if i need to write scripts, yes i would do it, or find someone to help me do it while i do other things to the same goal23:15
artemmif I am seeing the following struct (and not just a string) via dbus monitor, does it mean that I need to pass to QValueSpaceSubscriber something more than just "/desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename"?23:15
artemmstring "/desktop/meego/background/portrait/picture_filename"23:16
artemm      struct {23:16
artemm         int32 123:16
artemm         string "/home/user/.wallpapers/wallpaper.png"23:16
artemm      }23:16
rm_youthat's why this is a *community*23:16
artemmmy subscribers get connected to somewhere, but return something totally not like what I see via gconftool-223:16
djszapirm_you: right, so you would like to raise the quality, but you basically avoid the basic test (to actually build the packages on clean machines). Actually that is where OBS determines the first Quality level.23:17
rm_youexcept what i've found is that my packages build and work fine, but OBS just fails, or is nearly as usable as scratchbox23:18
rm_youand i believe others have found the same thing23:18
rm_youif they haven't, then fine, i'm on my own23:18
rm_youbut obviously some people are supportive of the idea, even if you aren't23:18
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ajalkanewtf. do I remember wrong that djszapi was swearing about OBS just a while ago because the libs had to be build there when he was doing kdelibs?23:18
rm_youi'm not talking about replacing OBS, or saying it is useless or anything23:19
rm_youi'm saying there should be a second option23:19
rm_youajalkane: lol prolly, i don't even know why i'm arguing with a notorious troll :/23:19
ajalkaneyeah I think he's trolling again. Makes the channel fun though.23:19
djszapiajalkane: kdelibs build just fine by now without any issues.23:19
rm_youyeah, livens things up :P23:19
rm_youdjszapi: next time you have something positive to say about *anything*, let me know. i'm gonna go work on something productive now23:21
djszapiI am quite positive about the use case, what obs targets. It would be much better to behave like a community, and fix the implementation bugs.23:22
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djszapiso that make that better instead of distraction, it would just lead to against the purpose that lbt, xfade and me, rzr were thinking, one shared nice way of doing this by a community, and not X different solutions for the same use case.23:23
rm_youi'd be happy to submit to your community repo, just not via OBS23:23
rm_youand i don't think having two options is necessarily a bad thing23:24
rm_youhaving 30 would probably be bad23:24
djszapiit is not about two, we already had two, it would be third for the same use case.23:24
lcukrm_you, the OBS builds for the various platforms, x86 and arm etc23:24
rm_youbut AFAIK this would clean up some of the issues with random people hosting their own repos23:24
lcukthe obs is surprisingly well thought out :P23:25
rm_youif there is another non-OBS repo up, then i will cede to that one23:25
rm_youbut it sounds like there is one option currently, which is OBS, no matter how much you claim there are many (as long as every option is an OBS option, that is one option AFAICT)23:25
djszapiwell, I had a proposal for your issue long ago, direct push feature for mysterious issues, or for cases during the unstable phrase.23:25
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rm_youdon't get me wrong please, i don't want to become the 6th or 7th community repo23:26
rm_youi want to create the ONE alternative to OBS23:26
rm_youso if you point me at an alternative that exists already i would gladly use that or join that project23:26
djszapido you think OBS is broken by design/architecture, not well thought out, or ?23:27
rm_youlcuk: the OBS works wonderfully for some people and some purposes, but not well for others23:27
rm_youdjszapi: same^^23:27
lcukrm_you, agreed23:27
lcukit has a learning curve23:27
djszapirm_you: I think it does not mean it cannot be fixed, and there is no lot of manpower in it that you should also go through ( and already fixed there long ago )23:28
djszapiwhat I personally prefer, if it is getting stable by helping hands. I do not unfortunately have too much clue about those server and other things.23:28
rm_youalright, i propose to you a challenge23:28
djszapinow lot of manpower*23:28
rm_youif you can walk me through making one package i have submit and compile properly in OBS23:28
rm_youthen i will drop it23:29
rm_youyou or anyone23:29
djszapiCan you show me one easier package you could not build on obs ?23:29
rm_youadvance warning: it requires a dependency tree of ~40 libs that will also need to be built, that are not currently23:29
lcukactually rm_you
lcukpretty much covers most of it23:29
rm_youlcuk: i used that23:29
rm_youdid not have any luck23:30
lcukfor package attitude23:30
rm_youdjszapi: "one easier package" is cheating23:30
rm_youhow about one package that convinced me that i didn't want to deal with OBS?23:31
djszapiok, show any package, I can try to help23:31
djszapiI just wanted to realize what the simpliest one was you could not get through.23:32
rm_youthe one i was working with most was ffmpeg23:32
djszapibecause kdelibs was a monster, but almost everything else worked for me apart from that23:32
djszapiand that also works nowadays oob.23:32
rm_youwhich you know was part of me trying to get mplayer2 working23:32
rm_youwhich i did23:32
djszapido you have the dependencies on obs ?23:33
rm_youit took me about four hours to trace through exactly what all the dependencies were23:33
rm_youand what their dependencies were23:33
rm_youthe whole tree23:33
rm_youSB saved me a WHOLE lot of time23:34
djszapiyou need to do it with and without OBS as well23:34
rm_youby being able to put in debian and fremantle as source repos23:34
rm_youand have it auto-apply debian patches23:34
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djszapihow can we speak about quality repository, if the dependencies are broken/missing ?23:35
rm_youwell, the point is that i compiled all of the dependencies23:36
rm_youand i have them all in my repo23:36
rm_youand part of the role of the guardians would be to verify that if you're submitting packages you are also submitting depends that work23:36
djszapiplease do not do that really23:36
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djszapisince debian, fremantle packages might contain false contact information, and debian people will really really not like you.23:36
djszapispeaking of which, purge removal needs some aegis addition which is a requirement for OVI store and unwritten quality by me as well23:37
rm_youwell, if i made any actual changes to debian source, i always added changelog info and added my own info as the maintainer23:37
rm_youif not, then i let it pass through23:37
djszapiso these porting unfortunately more times break the purge removal23:37
djszapidebian people will not really like you.23:38
djszapiThey told me that, I should really really not put them into the contact.23:38
djszapiI directly asked about it them on the debian mentors channel.23:38
rm_youif there are no code changes to make things work, why would it matter?23:39
rm_youi suppose i could just take over maintenance of all packages23:39
djszapibecause they do not wanna debug harmattan bugs23:39
djszapithey do not care about harmattan, they have their own life.23:39
djszapigood catch, I will document it on the shared community repository page to make it explicit what they asked frm us23:40
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rm_youwtf internet exploding23:41
rm_youi need to be somewhere23:41
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rm_youcan continue discussing later, this is good info to have23:41
djszapiwhat you could do is the ex-maintainer tag.23:41
djszapibut you still need to modify the package, take care about removal and other credentials, if it is needed23:42
rm_youso far i have not found much that needs additional aegis creds23:42
djszapihahahahahaha :D23:42
rm_youi would like to assume that if the package was created appropriately to begin with, removal will work properly23:43
djszapithat is the thing, yes agreed, it is not that frequent, that is why I do not understand the complains.23:43
rm_youand that it isn't my job to assure that it removes properly23:43
djszapifrom other people about aegis, it is oob normally23:43
djszapino no, removal will not work properly (purge) in some cases, that is for sure23:44
rm_youwhen aegis breaks something, it BREAKS it, permissions or not, it seems23:44
djszapiand that is a hard dep requirement in ovi store.23:44
rm_youbut for the most part it doesn't interfere with simple application and lib stuff23:44
djszapiexactly, works oob, full of complains unneccerisaly23:44
rm_youwhat it breaks is things that sysadmins / hardware hackers want to do23:44
rm_youwhich is unfortunate, because that sort of thing is what really could push this platform ahead23:45
rm_youmoreso than simple apps23:45
djszapino, it does not break, they do not know anything about the platform, but that is a bypass for this... back to the packaging23:45
djszapiI would not like to have a repository, where the dependencies are missing23:45
rm_youright, that would be horrible23:45
rm_youbasic QA would be required to assure that23:46
djszapiand as such, recompiling a trivial debian package is the same in sb, and obs, for instance screen23:46
djszapiso I think you should start with the dependencies on OBS.23:46
djszapi(as everybody else does)23:46
djszapino wonder you cannot submit a package with missing dependencies :D23:47
rm_youi mean, i know i would have to upload every single dep23:47
rm_youin the past, i was able to build things in OBS, but back then i had a console session that i was running OBS in23:48
rm_youand i could set everything up and trigger the build23:48
rm_youthis UI things is wtf23:48
djszapiyes, we all did the same for other packages. What do you think how many deps I had for kdelibs ? ;)23:48
djszapiyou do not need to use the Ui, you still have the osc option, that is an alternative for the Ui. That is the point of obs, it should work nicely without any direct console session manipulation. It will actually filter out the debian packaging bugs that we can report aback.23:50
rm_youhow do i use osc23:50
djszapiosc --help23:50
rm_youi mean23:50
rm_youhow do i get to it23:50
djszapinormally a simple add and commit23:50
rm_youAFAIK i don't have SSH access to the meego build server23:51
djszapiit would be nice for debugging, but not for the building itself.23:51
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djszapibut I would not still ask the same session, just different in order to not mess up the clean build environment. What I would test that way is the hardware relevant errors and other software relevant ones maybe. But surely not access to the clean build session.23:53
djszapiaka. it would be like a debug session.23:53
rm_youwhat i would still have to do is essentially build everything in SB until i got it working23:53
rm_youthen package up the source and submit it to OBS23:54
djszapithat is how build servers and development methodologies work even at companies from what I have seen in the past.23:54
djszapithe developer/packager test it locally when he is done with the modifications, and then he sends the result to a built/test server.23:54
rm_youi guess the most frustrating thing about that is that once you've spent 8 hours getting everything to build23:55
rm_youyou get to do it again to get it all uploaded to OBS, when you have a working and installable package in front of you already23:55
djszapiI spent more than a month with kdelibs23:56
djszapibut that was a monster, never really been bigger package ever.23:56
rm_youat my work we get everything working in dev, and just click a button and it is transported to the test and then production servers23:56
rm_youthere's not nearly as much juggling23:56
djszapiand that was already fixed, so I would like to be a bit sad to see those efforts go away.23:56
rm_younow i am late for a meeting :P23:57
rm_youbut yes, good discussion23:57
djszapipackaging in dev and then put it to the repository is rather error-prone, and not about good quality.23:57
djszapi* the best quality.23:58
rm_youyes i suppose there is a difference between my concentrated effort to maintain quality in SB, and some random person maybe throwing together crap packages23:58
djszapithat is what debian does in leisure time, and now we tend to go back to report their issues obs figured out for us23:58
rm_youi *know* my stuff works before i publish it23:58
djszapiit is not about you know, you are a person making mistakes.23:58
djszapitrust me, there are thousand better packagers in debian than you making mistakes ;)23:59
rm_youoh, definitely23:59
rm_youbut haven't had any issues yet :P23:59
djszapiit is like saying when I submit a patch for review23:59
djszapiSigned Off: TRUSTME23:59

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